August 19, 2023 • 30 mins
Ever wondered how tech recruitment could be transformed for the better? Get ready to have your questions answered as Mark Chaffey, the co-founder and CEO of hackajob, pulls back the curtain on their full stack talent solution. Imagine the ease of a reverse marketplace approach to tech recruitment, providing everything from employer branding to DE&I solutions, and even talent assessments. hackajob's three-tiered screening process, consisting of technical screening, job fit screen, and culture assessment, simplifies finding, engaging, and hiring top-notch technical talent.
Discover how hackajob integrates with applicant tracking systems and the role of DevLab in employer branding. With the software industry caught in a competitive whirlwind, learn about hackajob's unique position in the market and how it outshines staffing agencies, LinkedIn, and other direct sourcing solutions. If you're intrigued by the prospect of building a learning platform for engineers, you'll appreciate how hackajob has made strides in this area, providing an effective solution for companies to stay ahead.
Finally, we'll delve into hackajob's approach to providing accurate and respectful feedback for unsuccessful candidates. Listen to a captivating customer story that underscores hackajob's pivotal role in supporting a large US business with their tech hiring. We'll also explore the specifics of hackajob's reverse marketplace approach, the talent pool it attracts, and future integrations with Workday and Success Factors. So, sit back, relax, and let us show you the future of tech recruitment with hackajob.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Recruiting Daily's Use Case Podcast, a
show dedicated to thestorytelling that happens or
should happen when practitionerspurchase technology.
Each episode is designed toinspire new ways and ideas to
make your business better as wespeak with the brightest minds
in recruitment and HR tech.
That's what we do.
Here's your host, WilliamTincup.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
This is William Tincup and you are listening to
the Use Case Podcast.
Today we have Mark on fromHackajob and we'll be learning
about the business case or usecase that prospects and
customers make for the purchaseof Hackajob.
So what will we learn aboutHackajob?
Mark, would you do us a favorand introduce both yourself and
Hackajob?
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Yeah, absolutely, and thank you so much for having me
on the show, william.
So my name is Mark, I'm one ofthe co-founders and the CEO at
Hackajob and I've spent the lasteight years of my life now
obsessing over the problem ofhow the company's hire technical
talent at scale.
So a brief introduction toHackajob Every business in the
(01:10):
world is now a technologycompany.
Technology has evolved from astandalone industry, which
obviously it still is, to now afunction within every industry.
It doesn't matter if you're indefense and space, retail,
e-commerce.
You're going to need to buildtechnology teams, and that means
that the demand for technicaltalent is far outweighing the
supply, even with all of thelayoffs of the last 12 to 18
(01:34):
months.
Companies find it incrediblychallenging to find, engage and
hire technical talent, andthat's where Hackajob comes in.
We have designed a full stacktalent solution that has several
different products to improveevery part of the hiring process
.
It starts with a two-sidedmarketplace where we technically
(01:55):
screen every candidate on theway in using technology that we
fill, and if the candidatepasses that screening process,
they are visible in ourmarketplace for a period of four
weeks and at that point we flipthe model on its head.
So, rather than the candidateapplying to the job, the company
actually applies to theengineer, and this creates a
really magical candidateexperience, because candidates
(02:17):
only get pitched by companiesthat meet their salary
expectation.
These are status, locationpreferences, tech stack, etc.
Which means companies receivean 85% response rate to
engineers that they messagethrough the Hackajob marketplace
so far more effective use ofinternal recruiter's time.
And then we layer themarketplace with an employer
(02:38):
brand solution, a DE&I solutionand a talent assessments product
that ends up improving everypart of the hiring final for
organizations.
And that is a brief intro tomyself and Hackajob.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
I love it.
I love it.
So the screening process, let'sstart with that, as your
screening talent are you skillstesting and things like that.
Let's take us into the screenwithout revealing any of the
secret sauce.
Right, but what are you doingwhen you screen technical?
Speaker 3 (03:07):
talent?
Yeah, absolutely.
There's three different levelsof screening that a user will go
through.
The first is technicalscreening.
So we have built a cloud-basedprogramming environment that
enables us to assess acandidate's proficiency in any
programming language, tool,framework, architecture, type,
etc.
And that's all automated usingthe technology that we've built.
(03:29):
A candidate can also link theiropen source projects on places
like GitHub and Bitbucket andagain we analyze that all
automatically using thetechnology we've built, and the
idea behind that part of theprocess is to try and remove the
noise from a technical person'sCV.
I don't know how manyengineering CVs you've reviewed
over your time, william, buttypically they are stuffed full
(03:50):
of a thousand different keywordsof every single technology that
a candidate has touched intheir career, whereas really
what the hiring manager caresabout is what are you good at
and what do you want to do, andthat's what we really try and
get to through the technicalpart of the screening process.
The second part, we call our jobfit screen, and this is really
just about capturing structureddata around what a candidate is
(04:10):
looking for.
So as they go through thisprocess, we'll capture their
salary expectations, visa status, seniority, tech stack, work
location, preferences, etc.
And that just means that, as Itouched on earlier, the
candidate experience is sosuperior to any other solution
because they're only gettingreally relevant opportunities
(04:31):
presented to them.
And then the final one we'remuch earlier in exploring, but
we're trying to identify.
Can we work out the type oforganization an engineer is
likely to be more successful inthan others?
So this is a variation of someform of culture assessment.
We're very early in exploringthis right now, but trying to
understand, as we think aboutthe matching process between an
(04:54):
engineer and a company.
How can we prioritize the righttype of companies for the
engineer?
Speaker 2 (05:00):
To either the employers that you work with or
the candidates.
Do you see a shift towardsprojects as opposed to full-time
employment?
I don't want to guide thewitness, but I'm just wondering
what does the market want rightnow?
Speaker 3 (05:13):
It's a fascinating question because for so long
there's been obviously manyMcKinsey reports etc Around the
gig economy and and they'removing to freelance etc.
We've always played in thepermanent space, both here in
the UK and in the US, andContinue to play in the
permanent space, so we don'treally do any freelance contract
project work.
We are primarily working within-house recruiters that are
(05:37):
responsible for scalingpermanent tech teams.
I do think there is still ademand for freelance talent.
It's typically in a slightlydifferent part of the
organization.
It's often more hiring managerled and there are other products
out there that very much focusjust on that one area.
But from what we see, companiesthat are going through these
big digital transformationprograms want that talent
(05:58):
in-house, full-time Working forthat organization and there's a
lot of demand for it.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
So how do companies, the employer side, how do they
think of you?
I hate software categories, bythe way, and y'all are a blend
of services in software, so Ican see them using all kinds of
different words to describe you.
All good words, mark, but wheredo they towards the budget come
from?
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Yeah, totally, and I definitely hear you in the early
days.
I'd be like for somewherebetween the staffing agency and
a job board, but really eitherof those two things.
So we're a direct sourcingplatform.
The company generally finds thebudget where they are trying to
reduce staffing agency spend.
So our business model is anannual subscription that ends up
(06:41):
making the cost per hire aroundthree to four thousand pounds,
slightly more USD, and that istypically about 75 percent
reduction in what they arespending on staffing agencies.
So if I'm a director of timeacquisition, one of my top three
KPIs I'm going to be measuredon is my direct fill rate.
And and platforms at LinkedInand indeed have been wonderful
(07:04):
for increasing my direct fillrate in non-tech roles, but
actually whether typically thehighest use of staffing agency
Usage is still within technology.
So we will then be partneringboth of the director of time
acquisition and often the CTO toreduce that staffing agency
spend.
Move it to a subscriptionplatform like ours where the
cost per hire significantlycheaper.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Are you working with more, as you, as you roll this
out, are you working with morerecruiters?
Are you working more directlywith hiring managers?
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Great question.
So typically it's the internalrecruitment function that are
using it.
So you know, most organizationsthat we work with will probably
have a dedicated technicalrecruitment function and it's
typically those people that areusing the products and why they
love the product so much is.
Our Platform enables them tospend more time doing what
they're great at, which isinterviewing candidates, getting
(07:55):
candidates through therecruitment process, and less
time just aimlessly sending outhundreds and hundreds of
messages.
Interestingly enough, I was injust moved to New York and I was
in New York last week and I waswith one of our big US
customers and they're seeing alot of success by giving hiring
managers our platform and thelogic there is that the
engagement rate is so high fromthe candidates.
(08:16):
It's effectively enables thatteam to just have the hiring
managers logging in, baby in andbooking in effectively the
first Technical interviewstraight away.
So there is some use cases forhiring managers, but
predominantly it's internaltalent people.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
People know the kind of traditional hiring process
source talent and you market tothe talent.
Then you somehow get them toapply to a job.
They get into a TS, okay, yougo to offer letter and then an
inverse starts.
Where do you interact withpeople's, really, their
technology stacks, especiallytheir TA or recruiting
technology stack, because theapplication is through you, I'm
(08:53):
assuming, the offer letter isthrough you.
But where does that data?
Where does that data need to,or what your employer is telling
you?
That data needs to also reside.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Yeah, great question.
So we're at the start of thejourney.
So companies will be using usfor employer branding and
attraction and then also fordirect sourcing.
So a typical use case is acompany will, or an internal
recruiter will, log into ahacker job to do their sourcing
of talent.
They will send interviewrequests to candidates that they
like to look of.
Once a candidate has acceptedtheir request, at that point we
(09:25):
upload the candidate to theapplicant tracking system, and
it is a bi-directionalintegration.
So any time a candidate is thenupdated in the applicant
tracking system, they're alsoupdated in hacker job.
And that's really important forall of our machine learning
models, because we don't justget the signal that a company
wants to interview thiscandidate, we actually find out
did the company hire thatcandidate, was the candidate
(09:47):
unsuccessful or was the can ordid the candidate withdraw?
Which means our recommendationscan get better and better over
time.
And I'll give you a sneak peek,exclusive William, because I
actually wanted to share this onLinkedIn today, but our product
team told me I had to wait onemore week.
We have integrations going livewith workday and success
factors on September the 1st.
Oh, that's fantastic to get thebest requests for applicant
(10:11):
tracking systems, so we're veryexcited to get both of those
live.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
No, that's fantastic.
First of all, congratulationsNot easy.
Then, of course, you're goingto be pulled into Oracle as well
, because there's those are thebig three, but you got two of
them.
You'll have two of them knockedout by September, which is
really fascinating.
The candidates what I loveabout you flipping the model and
the company's trying to attractthe candidates in a way that
(10:36):
you want them to.
Again, I like that, and I likethat for technical talent in
particular, and I like thatyou're testing and assessing.
And again, not everybody getsaccepted, not everybody's on the
platform, which, again, I thinkis good.
Is there any cross?
I don't know, like I'm thinkingabout community GitHub or Stack
Overflow, how they've created atech community within that then
(11:01):
interacts with each otherregardless of jobs and even
being hired.
They give it to each other,advice, et cetera.
Do you either have any of thatnow or do you see that as part
of your future?
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Yeah, absolutely.
There's two elements of thebusiness today where that
happens.
So one we've effectivelycreated a media company
alongside Hackajob called DevLabDevLab, powered by Hackajob,
and this is often where ourcustomers will be promoting
their technical content.
So there's a lot of blogs andpodcasts and events and bits and
pieces like this, which isamazing for our customers
(11:36):
because it's a great employerbranding channel for the more
soft sell, get somebody reallyexcited about the technology
that you're working on inside anorganization like CarMax or S&P
Global.
But then we also do physical,real world events with these
people.
So two weeks ago we hosted ourannual conference where over
1000 engineers got together inperson and attended two days of
talks and presentations fromvarious industry people,
(11:59):
customers, et cetera.
So there's a whole mediabusiness to the company which
facilitates that community onthe candidate side.
And then, secondly, we're muchearlier in this part of the
journey, but the same technologythat we use to assess
candidates, we're also turninginto a learning platform.
So something that's reallyinteresting about engineers is
that technology moves so quickly.
(12:21):
There's always a newprogramming language framework
tool that they want to playaround with, and what we've
created is a structured,practical environment where they
can play around with thosetechnologies so they don't need
to listen to a YouTube video ormore classroom based learning.
Instead, they can actuallypractically go away and play
around with a language like Gothat's rising in popularity,
(12:43):
using the product and there'shope over time that we might
even be able to make that peerto peer and facilitate peer to
peer learning on the platform.
Absolutely some stuff we'redoing today and definitely
ambitious to do more of that inthe future.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
So are you bumping into anybody because the model
is so unique, Are you?
I'm going to the question isabout displacement and I advise
a lot of startups and I get thisquestion pretty much every day
and it's about competition and alot of software.
We all are mixed software andservices, so it's a little bit
different for y'all, but a lotof software firms they think
(13:17):
that another software companythey'll look around.
If it's seek out, they'll thinkit's higher, easy, you know
what I'm saying?
Like they'll look at anothersoftware company.
If it's greenhouse, they'llthink it's a pixel bay like
lever or something like that.
They'll pick another kind ofsomething that looks similar to
them.
And I always come back with kindof a similar answer.
I'm like it's actually thestatus quo.
It's people just doing stuffthe same way that they've done
(13:39):
it always and they just don'twant to change.
It's your biggest competitor.
That's what you have to getover.
And so what are you findingwhen you're talking to people
and rerouting their minds tosomething different, to doing it
differently than they've doneit before?
Are you finding that you got topull them away from another
(14:01):
something that's similar, or isit just we're going to take, as
you said earlier, we're going totake money on your staffing
budget.
You don't necessarily need tothink of us as a staffing firm,
but that's where the budget isgoing to come from.
Sorry, I interrupted.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
No, not at all.
I think you've put it so well,and we did our series B
fundraiser this year andcompetition came up a lot
because it is a noisy space, andI wish I had your answer, to be
honest, because I think it'sslightly better than mine.
But how I think aboutcompetition is three different
ways.
It's where is our customerspending money and we're taking
(14:35):
money?
Where are our users spendingtime and we're taking time, and
what other products out thereare trying to do those two
things as well?
So where we're taking budget,it's very clearly staffing
agencies.
We are seeing some use caseswhere, once we've reached a
certain scale inside a company,that will actually take some
budget from their LinkedInagreement and give it to us,
which is really interesting.
(14:56):
Typically, that's anorganization's where the
percentage of tech hiring is asignificant percent, so you
think about IT consultancies asa good example.
But, generally speaking, we'redisplacing staffing agencies
from a budget perspective, froma time perspective.
Where are users spending timebefore they buy a hacker job?
It's LinkedIn.
Internal recruiters live onLinkedIn and the frustration
(15:17):
they have is that they have tosend hundreds and hundreds of
messages to get replies.
A lot of the LinkedIn.
Oh, go for it, sir.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
It's such a horrible waste of time because the tech
talent.
These is years ago, but I don'tthink it much has changed.
A friend of mine who's anengineer, a software engineer,
would say, hey, I have a.
It's a pop-up profile, so whenI'm actually frustrated with my
job or looking for a job, I'llpop up my LinkedIn profile.
(15:44):
I'll get a flood of email oremail or messages or whatever,
and then I'll roll it down.
I won't cancel, I'll just makeit inactive.
I've dealt with enough technicaltalent to know they're
bombarded.
It's just insane.
And I like LinkedIn, don't getme wrong.
(16:04):
I've been a member for 20 years.
So it's not that I hateLinkedIn.
I just for this particular usecase.
I just don't think it'seffective because it's from a
spending perspective I thinkthat's the key word is effective
.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
I think you hit the nail on the head, and one of the
other big challenges onlinkedin is that it's not built
for engineers, so so many of theprofiles are bare bones and you
don't get the information thatyou actually need.
A lot of the people that wouldbe really relevant for your
roles don't even come back inyour search results because
linkedin doesn't know thetechnology stack they're working
with it is.
There's definitely a bigopportunity to displace linkedin
with vertical solutions and I'mwith you, I'm a massive link to
(16:41):
news.
I use linkedin every single day.
It's the time that isguaranteed to be open pretty
much all day for me.
I'm a big linkedin fan.
But I think for the internalrecruiters, no, just more
effective channels, and I thinkwe've built one of the most
effective channels for them tofind New talent.
That's so displacing staffingagencies, typically from a
budget perspective, linkedintypically from a time
(17:01):
perspective.
And then, yeah, the tools thatwe are competing against.
If you think about I don'tthink they're similar, but
they're solving the similarproblem you mentioned.
Seek out would absolutely beone of those products.
I've got really goodpenetration in the us.
I think seek out suffer from asimilar problem that linkedin
have, which is they do reallyrich search, so you get a far
(17:23):
better search experience on seekout, but these candidates
haven't opted in to seek out.
You don't really know ifthey're looking for a job or not
, so your engagement rate stillgonna be relatively low Compared
to what you can achieve onhacker job, and obviously you've
got high easy in that space aswell.
There are obviously otherdirect sourcing tools out there,
but I don't think there aremany that are taking this kind
of reverse marketplace approachthat needs to.
(17:44):
That eighty five percentresponse rate were able to
provide for internal recruiters.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Let's do a couple of things real quick.
What are questions thatprospect should ask you?
The team, your sales team, yourmarketing team, anybody that's
out there like which is acompliment, by the way.
It's absolutely a compliment,because you're solving something
very uniquely, but in that theymight not have the buying
(18:12):
questions, they might not havethe literacy yet to ask you
sophisticated questions.
So what if you could draftthose?
Or maybe a magic wand?
What would those questions be?
Speaker 3 (18:26):
And also I love the placas description of the fun of
the emoji and put thateverywhere now.
So I think there's a coupledifferent things that if I was a
prospect looking at hacker job,I'd be wanting to understand
what is.
I want to understand the talentthat ultimately, we're only as
good as the candidates we haveon our platform and therefore I
want to understand what types ofengineers and technical people
(18:48):
it's not all softwareengineering.
We do stuff in data devops,cloud security, etc.
What's the seniority of thosepeople, what's the location,
those different bits and pieces.
I definitely want to reallydeeply understand the talent
Community, the talent make upand what that looks like, and we
do actually offer customers a30 day trial To figure that out,
because ultimately, we onlywant companies to sign up that
(19:09):
are good fit for us and they'regonna use us for the next five
years.
So that's definitely one thingthat I want to work with them on
, they should want to work withus on.
I think the budget sign offprocess in this environment is
got a lot more challenging fororganizations and because we are
a platypus, because we are aslightly unique proposition and
we are an annual subscriptionmodel, building that business
(19:31):
case together is very valuable.
What we find when an internalrecruitment function have to go
and sell this internally to thefinance team, the community more
whatever, because it's notnecessarily easy to place us, it
can post some challenges there.
So really getting us boughtinto the procurement process I
think is key.
I'm building that business caseand I find one we've touched on
(19:53):
.
But if I was a Direct of timeacquisition, I only buy tools
integrated my tracking systemand my other systems.
I think there is such aplethora of technology out there
right now.
I'm actually when you speak tocustomers.
One of the biggest problemsisn't buying technology, it's
enabling that team to actuallyuse the technology that they
bought.
We spent a lot of time thinkingabout that and I see an iron
(20:15):
organization.
We bought some brilliantsoftware products just nobody
uses because I'm done a good jobof naming them.
I think that integration is aone great way to really maximize
enablement because it makes theusers job a lot more easy and
remove any admin.
So I think that three pillarsI'd be looking at.
I'd be looking at one Make surethere's a really strong talent
fit we've got a 30 day trial tohelp customers figure that out
(20:37):
to really understanding thebusiness case and how we gonna
generate and justify the r?
Y and then free really donedeep on integrations and
workflows and making sure thatthis is going to be more
effective for the internal crew.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Okay.
So when you get to show a jobto someone for the first time,
what's your favorite part?
I say demo, that's not reallythe bit, but you get to show
people behind the veil how youwork, what you do, the outcomes,
etc.
What's your favorite part?
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Can I choose to?
Is that okay?
Yeah, so when I demo theproduct, can I still do the odd
demo?
What I like to do is I will geta prospect job, a live job that
they posted on their careersite and I'll add it to our
platform.
I'll do it in real time.
I'll say this is the job.
We're going to add it togethernow and we're going to show you
in real time how many candidatesare a match for this job.
(21:30):
We're going to add in all thedata your salary, your location,
your visa, your tech stack, etc.
And it will pull a list of 180matches and I'm going to click
on one of those matches blindly,not knowing what that candidate
is Going to do it in real timewith them and we'll review that
profile together and I'll saywhat do you think of this
candidate?
And seven or eight times out of10, they'll say yeah, I'd like
(21:51):
to speak to that candidate.
And I'll say if you hit thisinterview button here within 48
hours, 85% likelihood thatcandidate is replied and booked
in a time to speak with you.
Is there another product thatyou could do that with?
Generally, the answer is no,and that is a great way to get
someone hooked because you haveshown them value very quickly.
So that'd be the first part.
(22:12):
The second part is our newmodule that we've just rolled
out all around diversity, equityand inclusion, which is
obviously such a hot topic inour space, and we collect opt-in
data across ethnicity, gender,neurodiversity, disability,
sexuality, veteran status and,if they need reasonable
adjustments in the interviewprocess we're about 80% of our
(22:33):
users and then we're able toplay back the customer's hiring
funnel, broken down by thosedemographics, and we can see at
what stage do they have a higherdropout rate of female
engineers versus male engineers?
And, what's more, every time acandidate drops out or declines
the interview of a company, theyhave to give a reason why.
So a company can start learningwhy black female engineers drop
(22:57):
out at a higher rate than whitemale engineers, or why, at the
face-to-face interview stage,there's a higher dropout.
Is it because it's an all whitemale panel, for instance?
And what we're finding fromspeaking to customers is they
just do not have access to thisdata anywhere.
So that is another verypowerful part of the product
that I always enjoy showing ordiscussing.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Mark, dumb question.
I'll learn, but do we get thatdata also for the employers?
So we get it from candidates,like when they drop out but do?
What I'm seeking for is badhiring managers.
That's what I'm looking for ishow do I identify?
Do we find out any of the datafrom their perspective as well
about candidates?
Speaker 3 (23:36):
Yes, there's two kind of elements we do here.
One is very descriptive, soeach time a candidate is
rejected through half the jobyou have to collect.
We collect a structured reasonwhy there's eight different
reasons, and again that thenfeeds our machine learning
matching.
That means the recommendationscan get better over time.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Is that communicated to the candidate in some way?
Is that not raw?
But is it feedback shared withthe candidate?
I'm thinking about thecandidate experience right now
in particular, because theymight tell you okay, they're
just not up to date with what weneed, they're just not quite
there and we can't.
(24:14):
Right now, we can't spend thetime, money and energy in
training them up.
Dude, how does a candidate getthat without?
How do they get that feedbackwithout being completely
offended?
Or do they get that feedback?
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Yeah, it's one of the tricky things, right.
You've always got to thinkabout how do you manage comms
and especially give you workwith larger enterprise
organizations.
They're very selective on whatcomms we can do.
They have to send a messageevery time they make a candidate
unsuccessful, so they have toprovide some input.
That message could be generic,it could be specific, it's up to
them.
So we are empowering the usersto take that decision.
(24:46):
And it is also important for usbecause we want to get accurate
unsuccessful data from thecustomer, because that's going
to make our matching moreaccurate and better over time.
So it is a balancing act to getthat right.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Brilliant, all right.
Last thing, and it's yourfavorite or your most recent
customer story, without namingthe customer or the brand, but
just something that happened.
They use Hackajob and you'relike, oh, that's cool, that's
why we created the company?
Speaker 3 (25:12):
Yeah, there's a couple.
So, like I said, I've justmoved to the US and I'm very
much enjoying living in New Yorkand leaning in heavily to US
culture and this isn't reallygoing to be like the emotifan
that you're looking for, but Ithink it speaks to me as a human
.
So I'm a big sports fan and sofootball, rugby, so football for
(25:33):
me.
Big man, united fan, yourbrothers from another mother.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
I've been following the United since 92.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
I love it Well, I'm actually named after Mark Hughes
, so you will be familiar withhim and my brother's, named
after.
Ryan Giggs.
So, yeah, it runs deep in ourfamily and the worst thing about
the US is the fact that youguys call it soccer.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Oh no, I don't know.
It's football.
You use your foot with the ball, that's why it's football.
Don't get me wrong.
I went to the University ofAlabama for undergrad, so I love
college football.
But no, I've played soccergrowing up, so I get it.
But no, I've been followinginternational football and
United is my team, like Iliterally could have a tattoo.
(26:17):
I've been old Trafford probablyalmost 100 times.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
I love it.
I do still have two seasontickets.
So often anymore but next timenext time we're in the UK we're
going to old Trafford together.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah.
All right, I interrupted you,I'm sorry, so you're getting
into the.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
You're getting into sports, getting into sports, and
my American sport of choice isbasketball.
We've got basketball, and so Iwas fortunate enough to be at
Madison Square Garden for theNew York Knicks Miami Heat
Playoff game, the one that theKnicks won.
And I'm telling this storybecause one of the major
sponsors of the NBA, who shallnot be named, I saw was
(26:54):
sponsoring this event and I waslike sponsoring the NBA?
I was like, wow, that's cool.
I never even heard of thiscompany.
It's a US business.
And I was actually there withBrett, one of our guys, and I
said, brett, how cool would itbe if that company used Hackajob
?
This is amazing, I'm gettinginto basketball and Brett went
away and obviously wanting toimpress, and a couple of weeks
later I saw them pop up in oursales force.
(27:15):
I was like, oh, they're now anopportunity and they just signed
up with us two weeks ago, whichis our largest US customer so
far in terms of employees side,our 50,000 person organization,
and we're supporting them allacross the US with their tech
hiring.
So that was definitely a verysweet moment recently.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
I was this close a couple of years back to writing
a book with an Argentiniancalled Finding Messy, and the
bit was is looking through asports, basically a football
club we could use Barcelona ifwe wanted, or United and looking
at HR.
The entire spectrum of HR,recruiting and HR is all done in
(27:52):
a football club.
So there's sourcing, there'straining, there's compensation,
like all the stuff that we havein our brains around, all the TA
stuff, but also, once theybecome employees, all the HR
stuff.
That's all done in a footballclub.
It might not be done well, butat Liverpool and the city, but
(28:14):
it's.
It's one of those deals thatyou can actually look at town,
acquisition and HR through thefootball lens and see
fascinating things.
So I'm glad that we're alreadytogether or we're already
connected.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
Totally, william.
If you ever want to write thatbook, you've got a co offering
me I would.
I would love to study HR andtown acquisition and
unfortunately are not so.
Friends over at the PlummanCity have done a much better job
than us in talent acquisitionover the last five years.
So in your what?
Speaker 2 (28:44):
But that's good because it motivates us and
we've done we've had a.
We've had a.
I love our manager.
A lepsiway love our manager.
I think we finally foundsomebody, after Sir Alex, to
step in and actually reallycommand a team.
I'm excited, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
I absolutely agree.
Yeah, it's going to bedefinitely going to be an
exciting season and I think thathe's bringing back that club
first culture.
No player is bigger than theclub and I think that you've
made some big, brave decisionswhich you've got to commend him
for.
So, yeah, I'm very excited forthe season ahead.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
And again, that's what you do in HR.
What's what's fascinating aboutthat is you have to make brave
decisions about talent.
Again, it's talent.
Anyhow, we could have an entirepodcast about United, but we're
not going to.
There's some great ones outthere Anyhow.
Mark, thank you so much.
I know how busy you are.
Thank you for carving out timefor us.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
William, this has been a pleasure and definitely
one of the more enjoyablepodcasts I have done.
So thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Absolutely, and thanks for everyone listening
Until next time, thanks.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
You've been listening to Recruiting Daly's use case
podcast.
Be sure to subscribe on yourfavorite platform and hit us up
at recruiting dailycom.
Welcome to Recruiting Daily's Use Case Podcast, a
show dedicated to thestorytelling that happens or
should happen when practitionerspurchase technology.
Each episode is designed toinspire new ways and ideas to
make your business better as wespeak with the brightest minds
in recruitment and HR tech.
That's what we do.
Here's your host, WilliamTincup.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
This is William Tincup and you are listening to
the Use Case Podcast.
Today we have Mark on fromHackajob and we'll be learning
about the business case or usecase that prospects and
customers make for the purchaseof Hackajob.
So what will we learn aboutHackajob?
Mark, would you do us a favorand introduce both yourself and
Hackajob?
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Yeah, absolutely, and thank you so much for having me
on the show, william.
So my name is Mark, I'm one ofthe co-founders and the CEO at
Hackajob and I've spent the lasteight years of my life now
obsessing over the problem ofhow the company's hire technical
talent at scale.
So a brief introduction toHackajob Every business in the
(01:10):
world is now a technologycompany.
Technology has evolved from astandalone industry, which
obviously it still is, to now afunction within every industry.
It doesn't matter if you're indefense and space, retail,
e-commerce.
You're going to need to buildtechnology teams, and that means
that the demand for technicaltalent is far outweighing the
supply, even with all of thelayoffs of the last 12 to 18
(01:34):
months.
Companies find it incrediblychallenging to find, engage and
hire technical talent, andthat's where Hackajob comes in.
We have designed a full stacktalent solution that has several
different products to improveevery part of the hiring process
.
It starts with a two-sidedmarketplace where we technically
(01:55):
screen every candidate on theway in using technology that we
fill, and if the candidatepasses that screening process,
they are visible in ourmarketplace for a period of four
weeks and at that point we flipthe model on its head.
So, rather than the candidateapplying to the job, the company
actually applies to theengineer, and this creates a
really magical candidateexperience, because candidates
(02:17):
only get pitched by companiesthat meet their salary
expectation.
These are status, locationpreferences, tech stack, etc.
Which means companies receivean 85% response rate to
engineers that they messagethrough the Hackajob marketplace
so far more effective use ofinternal recruiter's time.
And then we layer themarketplace with an employer
(02:38):
brand solution, a DE&I solutionand a talent assessments product
that ends up improving everypart of the hiring final for
organizations.
And that is a brief intro tomyself and Hackajob.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
I love it.
I love it.
So the screening process, let'sstart with that, as your
screening talent are you skillstesting and things like that.
Let's take us into the screenwithout revealing any of the
secret sauce.
Right, but what are you doingwhen you screen technical?
Speaker 3 (03:07):
talent?
Yeah, absolutely.
There's three different levelsof screening that a user will go
through.
The first is technicalscreening.
So we have built a cloud-basedprogramming environment that
enables us to assess acandidate's proficiency in any
programming language, tool,framework, architecture, type,
etc.
And that's all automated usingthe technology that we've built.
(03:29):
A candidate can also link theiropen source projects on places
like GitHub and Bitbucket andagain we analyze that all
automatically using thetechnology we've built, and the
idea behind that part of theprocess is to try and remove the
noise from a technical person'sCV.
I don't know how manyengineering CVs you've reviewed
over your time, william, buttypically they are stuffed full
(03:50):
of a thousand different keywordsof every single technology that
a candidate has touched intheir career, whereas really
what the hiring manager caresabout is what are you good at
and what do you want to do, andthat's what we really try and
get to through the technicalpart of the screening process.
The second part, we call our jobfit screen, and this is really
just about capturing structureddata around what a candidate is
(04:10):
looking for.
So as they go through thisprocess, we'll capture their
salary expectations, visa status, seniority, tech stack, work
location, preferences, etc.
And that just means that, as Itouched on earlier, the
candidate experience is sosuperior to any other solution
because they're only gettingreally relevant opportunities
(04:31):
presented to them.
And then the final one we'remuch earlier in exploring, but
we're trying to identify.
Can we work out the type oforganization an engineer is
likely to be more successful inthan others?
So this is a variation of someform of culture assessment.
We're very early in exploringthis right now, but trying to
understand, as we think aboutthe matching process between an
(04:54):
engineer and a company.
How can we prioritize the righttype of companies for the
engineer?
Speaker 2 (05:00):
To either the employers that you work with or
the candidates.
Do you see a shift towardsprojects as opposed to full-time
employment?
I don't want to guide thewitness, but I'm just wondering
what does the market want rightnow?
Speaker 3 (05:13):
It's a fascinating question because for so long
there's been obviously manyMcKinsey reports etc Around the
gig economy and and they'removing to freelance etc.
We've always played in thepermanent space, both here in
the UK and in the US, andContinue to play in the
permanent space, so we don'treally do any freelance contract
project work.
We are primarily working within-house recruiters that are
(05:37):
responsible for scalingpermanent tech teams.
I do think there is still ademand for freelance talent.
It's typically in a slightlydifferent part of the
organization.
It's often more hiring managerled and there are other products
out there that very much focusjust on that one area.
But from what we see, companiesthat are going through these
big digital transformationprograms want that talent
(05:58):
in-house, full-time Working forthat organization and there's a
lot of demand for it.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
So how do companies, the employer side, how do they
think of you?
I hate software categories, bythe way, and y'all are a blend
of services in software, so Ican see them using all kinds of
different words to describe you.
All good words, mark, but wheredo they towards the budget come
from?
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Yeah, totally, and I definitely hear you in the early
days.
I'd be like for somewherebetween the staffing agency and
a job board, but really eitherof those two things.
So we're a direct sourcingplatform.
The company generally finds thebudget where they are trying to
reduce staffing agency spend.
So our business model is anannual subscription that ends up
(06:41):
making the cost per hire aroundthree to four thousand pounds,
slightly more USD, and that istypically about 75 percent
reduction in what they arespending on staffing agencies.
So if I'm a director of timeacquisition, one of my top three
KPIs I'm going to be measuredon is my direct fill rate.
And and platforms at LinkedInand indeed have been wonderful
(07:04):
for increasing my direct fillrate in non-tech roles, but
actually whether typically thehighest use of staffing agency
Usage is still within technology.
So we will then be partneringboth of the director of time
acquisition and often the CTO toreduce that staffing agency
spend.
Move it to a subscriptionplatform like ours where the
cost per hire significantlycheaper.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Are you working with more, as you, as you roll this
out, are you working with morerecruiters?
Are you working more directlywith hiring managers?
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Great question.
So typically it's the internalrecruitment function that are
using it.
So you know, most organizationsthat we work with will probably
have a dedicated technicalrecruitment function and it's
typically those people that areusing the products and why they
love the product so much is.
Our Platform enables them tospend more time doing what
they're great at, which isinterviewing candidates, getting
(07:55):
candidates through therecruitment process, and less
time just aimlessly sending outhundreds and hundreds of
messages.
Interestingly enough, I was injust moved to New York and I was
in New York last week and I waswith one of our big US
customers and they're seeing alot of success by giving hiring
managers our platform and thelogic there is that the
engagement rate is so high fromthe candidates.
(08:16):
It's effectively enables thatteam to just have the hiring
managers logging in, baby in andbooking in effectively the
first Technical interviewstraight away.
So there is some use cases forhiring managers, but
predominantly it's internaltalent people.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
People know the kind of traditional hiring process
source talent and you market tothe talent.
Then you somehow get them toapply to a job.
They get into a TS, okay, yougo to offer letter and then an
inverse starts.
Where do you interact withpeople's, really, their
technology stacks, especiallytheir TA or recruiting
technology stack, because theapplication is through you, I'm
(08:53):
assuming, the offer letter isthrough you.
But where does that data?
Where does that data need to,or what your employer is telling
you?
That data needs to also reside.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Yeah, great question.
So we're at the start of thejourney.
So companies will be using usfor employer branding and
attraction and then also fordirect sourcing.
So a typical use case is acompany will, or an internal
recruiter will, log into ahacker job to do their sourcing
of talent.
They will send interviewrequests to candidates that they
like to look of.
Once a candidate has acceptedtheir request, at that point we
(09:25):
upload the candidate to theapplicant tracking system, and
it is a bi-directionalintegration.
So any time a candidate is thenupdated in the applicant
tracking system, they're alsoupdated in hacker job.
And that's really important forall of our machine learning
models, because we don't justget the signal that a company
wants to interview thiscandidate, we actually find out
did the company hire thatcandidate, was the candidate
(09:47):
unsuccessful or was the can ordid the candidate withdraw?
Which means our recommendationscan get better and better over
time.
And I'll give you a sneak peek,exclusive William, because I
actually wanted to share this onLinkedIn today, but our product
team told me I had to wait onemore week.
We have integrations going livewith workday and success
factors on September the 1st.
Oh, that's fantastic to get thebest requests for applicant
(10:11):
tracking systems, so we're veryexcited to get both of those
live.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
No, that's fantastic.
First of all, congratulationsNot easy.
Then, of course, you're goingto be pulled into Oracle as well
, because there's those are thebig three, but you got two of
them.
You'll have two of them knockedout by September, which is
really fascinating.
The candidates what I loveabout you flipping the model and
the company's trying to attractthe candidates in a way that
(10:36):
you want them to.
Again, I like that, and I likethat for technical talent in
particular, and I like thatyou're testing and assessing.
And again, not everybody getsaccepted, not everybody's on the
platform, which, again, I thinkis good.
Is there any cross?
I don't know, like I'm thinkingabout community GitHub or Stack
Overflow, how they've created atech community within that then
(11:01):
interacts with each otherregardless of jobs and even
being hired.
They give it to each other,advice, et cetera.
Do you either have any of thatnow or do you see that as part
of your future?
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Yeah, absolutely.
There's two elements of thebusiness today where that
happens.
So one we've effectivelycreated a media company
alongside Hackajob called DevLabDevLab, powered by Hackajob,
and this is often where ourcustomers will be promoting
their technical content.
So there's a lot of blogs andpodcasts and events and bits and
pieces like this, which isamazing for our customers
(11:36):
because it's a great employerbranding channel for the more
soft sell, get somebody reallyexcited about the technology
that you're working on inside anorganization like CarMax or S&P
Global.
But then we also do physical,real world events with these
people.
So two weeks ago we hosted ourannual conference where over
1000 engineers got together inperson and attended two days of
talks and presentations fromvarious industry people,
(11:59):
customers, et cetera.
So there's a whole mediabusiness to the company which
facilitates that community onthe candidate side.
And then, secondly, we're muchearlier in this part of the
journey, but the same technologythat we use to assess
candidates, we're also turninginto a learning platform.
So something that's reallyinteresting about engineers is
that technology moves so quickly.
(12:21):
There's always a newprogramming language framework
tool that they want to playaround with, and what we've
created is a structured,practical environment where they
can play around with thosetechnologies so they don't need
to listen to a YouTube video ormore classroom based learning.
Instead, they can actuallypractically go away and play
around with a language like Gothat's rising in popularity,
(12:43):
using the product and there'shope over time that we might
even be able to make that peerto peer and facilitate peer to
peer learning on the platform.
Absolutely some stuff we'redoing today and definitely
ambitious to do more of that inthe future.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
So are you bumping into anybody because the model
is so unique, Are you?
I'm going to the question isabout displacement and I advise
a lot of startups and I get thisquestion pretty much every day
and it's about competition and alot of software.
We all are mixed software andservices, so it's a little bit
different for y'all, but a lotof software firms they think
(13:17):
that another software companythey'll look around.
If it's seek out, they'll thinkit's higher, easy, you know
what I'm saying?
Like they'll look at anothersoftware company.
If it's greenhouse, they'llthink it's a pixel bay like
lever or something like that.
They'll pick another kind ofsomething that looks similar to
them.
And I always come back with kindof a similar answer.
I'm like it's actually thestatus quo.
It's people just doing stuffthe same way that they've done
(13:39):
it always and they just don'twant to change.
It's your biggest competitor.
That's what you have to getover.
And so what are you findingwhen you're talking to people
and rerouting their minds tosomething different, to doing it
differently than they've doneit before?
Are you finding that you got topull them away from another
(14:01):
something that's similar, or isit just we're going to take, as
you said earlier, we're going totake money on your staffing
budget.
You don't necessarily need tothink of us as a staffing firm,
but that's where the budget isgoing to come from.
Sorry, I interrupted.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
No, not at all.
I think you've put it so well,and we did our series B
fundraiser this year andcompetition came up a lot
because it is a noisy space, andI wish I had your answer, to be
honest, because I think it'sslightly better than mine.
But how I think aboutcompetition is three different
ways.
It's where is our customerspending money and we're taking
(14:35):
money?
Where are our users spendingtime and we're taking time, and
what other products out thereare trying to do those two
things as well?
So where we're taking budget,it's very clearly staffing
agencies.
We are seeing some use caseswhere, once we've reached a
certain scale inside a company,that will actually take some
budget from their LinkedInagreement and give it to us,
which is really interesting.
(14:56):
Typically, that's anorganization's where the
percentage of tech hiring is asignificant percent, so you
think about IT consultancies asa good example.
But, generally speaking, we'redisplacing staffing agencies
from a budget perspective, froma time perspective.
Where are users spending timebefore they buy a hacker job?
It's LinkedIn.
Internal recruiters live onLinkedIn and the frustration
(15:17):
they have is that they have tosend hundreds and hundreds of
messages to get replies.
A lot of the LinkedIn.
Oh, go for it, sir.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
It's such a horrible waste of time because the tech
talent.
These is years ago, but I don'tthink it much has changed.
A friend of mine who's anengineer, a software engineer,
would say, hey, I have a.
It's a pop-up profile, so whenI'm actually frustrated with my
job or looking for a job, I'llpop up my LinkedIn profile.
(15:44):
I'll get a flood of email oremail or messages or whatever,
and then I'll roll it down.
I won't cancel, I'll just makeit inactive.
I've dealt with enough technicaltalent to know they're
bombarded.
It's just insane.
And I like LinkedIn, don't getme wrong.
(16:04):
I've been a member for 20 years.
So it's not that I hateLinkedIn.
I just for this particular usecase.
I just don't think it'seffective because it's from a
spending perspective I thinkthat's the key word is effective
.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
I think you hit the nail on the head, and one of the
other big challenges onlinkedin is that it's not built
for engineers, so so many of theprofiles are bare bones and you
don't get the information thatyou actually need.
A lot of the people that wouldbe really relevant for your
roles don't even come back inyour search results because
linkedin doesn't know thetechnology stack they're working
with it is.
There's definitely a bigopportunity to displace linkedin
with vertical solutions and I'mwith you, I'm a massive link to
(16:41):
news.
I use linkedin every single day.
It's the time that isguaranteed to be open pretty
much all day for me.
I'm a big linkedin fan.
But I think for the internalrecruiters, no, just more
effective channels, and I thinkwe've built one of the most
effective channels for them tofind New talent.
That's so displacing staffingagencies, typically from a
budget perspective, linkedintypically from a time
(17:01):
perspective.
And then, yeah, the tools thatwe are competing against.
If you think about I don'tthink they're similar, but
they're solving the similarproblem you mentioned.
Seek out would absolutely beone of those products.
I've got really goodpenetration in the us.
I think seek out suffer from asimilar problem that linkedin
have, which is they do reallyrich search, so you get a far
(17:23):
better search experience on seekout, but these candidates
haven't opted in to seek out.
You don't really know ifthey're looking for a job or not
, so your engagement rate stillgonna be relatively low Compared
to what you can achieve onhacker job, and obviously you've
got high easy in that space aswell.
There are obviously otherdirect sourcing tools out there,
but I don't think there aremany that are taking this kind
of reverse marketplace approachthat needs to.
(17:44):
That eighty five percentresponse rate were able to
provide for internal recruiters.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Let's do a couple of things real quick.
What are questions thatprospect should ask you?
The team, your sales team, yourmarketing team, anybody that's
out there like which is acompliment, by the way.
It's absolutely a compliment,because you're solving something
very uniquely, but in that theymight not have the buying
(18:12):
questions, they might not havethe literacy yet to ask you
sophisticated questions.
So what if you could draftthose?
Or maybe a magic wand?
What would those questions be?
Speaker 3 (18:26):
And also I love the placas description of the fun of
the emoji and put thateverywhere now.
So I think there's a coupledifferent things that if I was a
prospect looking at hacker job,I'd be wanting to understand
what is.
I want to understand the talentthat ultimately, we're only as
good as the candidates we haveon our platform and therefore I
want to understand what types ofengineers and technical people
(18:48):
it's not all softwareengineering.
We do stuff in data devops,cloud security, etc.
What's the seniority of thosepeople, what's the location,
those different bits and pieces.
I definitely want to reallydeeply understand the talent
Community, the talent make upand what that looks like, and we
do actually offer customers a30 day trial To figure that out,
because ultimately, we onlywant companies to sign up that
(19:09):
are good fit for us and they'regonna use us for the next five
years.
So that's definitely one thingthat I want to work with them on
, they should want to work withus on.
I think the budget sign offprocess in this environment is
got a lot more challenging fororganizations and because we are
a platypus, because we are aslightly unique proposition and
we are an annual subscriptionmodel, building that business
(19:31):
case together is very valuable.
What we find when an internalrecruitment function have to go
and sell this internally to thefinance team, the community more
whatever, because it's notnecessarily easy to place us, it
can post some challenges there.
So really getting us boughtinto the procurement process I
think is key.
I'm building that business caseand I find one we've touched on
(19:53):
.
But if I was a Direct of timeacquisition, I only buy tools
integrated my tracking systemand my other systems.
I think there is such aplethora of technology out there
right now.
I'm actually when you speak tocustomers.
One of the biggest problemsisn't buying technology, it's
enabling that team to actuallyuse the technology that they
bought.
We spent a lot of time thinkingabout that and I see an iron
(20:15):
organization.
We bought some brilliantsoftware products just nobody
uses because I'm done a good jobof naming them.
I think that integration is aone great way to really maximize
enablement because it makes theusers job a lot more easy and
remove any admin.
So I think that three pillarsI'd be looking at.
I'd be looking at one Make surethere's a really strong talent
fit we've got a 30 day trial tohelp customers figure that out
(20:37):
to really understanding thebusiness case and how we gonna
generate and justify the r?
Y and then free really donedeep on integrations and
workflows and making sure thatthis is going to be more
effective for the internal crew.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Okay.
So when you get to show a jobto someone for the first time,
what's your favorite part?
I say demo, that's not reallythe bit, but you get to show
people behind the veil how youwork, what you do, the outcomes,
etc.
What's your favorite part?
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Can I choose to?
Is that okay?
Yeah, so when I demo theproduct, can I still do the odd
demo?
What I like to do is I will geta prospect job, a live job that
they posted on their careersite and I'll add it to our
platform.
I'll do it in real time.
I'll say this is the job.
We're going to add it togethernow and we're going to show you
in real time how many candidatesare a match for this job.
(21:30):
We're going to add in all thedata your salary, your location,
your visa, your tech stack, etc.
And it will pull a list of 180matches and I'm going to click
on one of those matches blindly,not knowing what that candidate
is Going to do it in real timewith them and we'll review that
profile together and I'll saywhat do you think of this
candidate?
And seven or eight times out of10, they'll say yeah, I'd like
(21:51):
to speak to that candidate.
And I'll say if you hit thisinterview button here within 48
hours, 85% likelihood thatcandidate is replied and booked
in a time to speak with you.
Is there another product thatyou could do that with?
Generally, the answer is no,and that is a great way to get
someone hooked because you haveshown them value very quickly.
So that'd be the first part.
(22:12):
The second part is our newmodule that we've just rolled
out all around diversity, equityand inclusion, which is
obviously such a hot topic inour space, and we collect opt-in
data across ethnicity, gender,neurodiversity, disability,
sexuality, veteran status and,if they need reasonable
adjustments in the interviewprocess we're about 80% of our
(22:33):
users and then we're able toplay back the customer's hiring
funnel, broken down by thosedemographics, and we can see at
what stage do they have a higherdropout rate of female
engineers versus male engineers?
And, what's more, every time acandidate drops out or declines
the interview of a company, theyhave to give a reason why.
So a company can start learningwhy black female engineers drop
(22:57):
out at a higher rate than whitemale engineers, or why, at the
face-to-face interview stage,there's a higher dropout.
Is it because it's an all whitemale panel, for instance?
And what we're finding fromspeaking to customers is they
just do not have access to thisdata anywhere.
So that is another verypowerful part of the product
that I always enjoy showing ordiscussing.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Mark, dumb question.
I'll learn, but do we get thatdata also for the employers?
So we get it from candidates,like when they drop out but do?
What I'm seeking for is badhiring managers.
That's what I'm looking for ishow do I identify?
Do we find out any of the datafrom their perspective as well
about candidates?
Speaker 3 (23:36):
Yes, there's two kind of elements we do here.
One is very descriptive, soeach time a candidate is
rejected through half the jobyou have to collect.
We collect a structured reasonwhy there's eight different
reasons, and again that thenfeeds our machine learning
matching.
That means the recommendationscan get better over time.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Is that communicated to the candidate in some way?
Is that not raw?
But is it feedback shared withthe candidate?
I'm thinking about thecandidate experience right now
in particular, because theymight tell you okay, they're
just not up to date with what weneed, they're just not quite
there and we can't.
(24:14):
Right now, we can't spend thetime, money and energy in
training them up.
Dude, how does a candidate getthat without?
How do they get that feedbackwithout being completely
offended?
Or do they get that feedback?
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Yeah, it's one of the tricky things, right.
You've always got to thinkabout how do you manage comms
and especially give you workwith larger enterprise
organizations.
They're very selective on whatcomms we can do.
They have to send a messageevery time they make a candidate
unsuccessful, so they have toprovide some input.
That message could be generic,it could be specific, it's up to
them.
So we are empowering the usersto take that decision.
(24:46):
And it is also important for usbecause we want to get accurate
unsuccessful data from thecustomer, because that's going
to make our matching moreaccurate and better over time.
So it is a balancing act to getthat right.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Brilliant, all right.
Last thing, and it's yourfavorite or your most recent
customer story, without namingthe customer or the brand, but
just something that happened.
They use Hackajob and you'relike, oh, that's cool, that's
why we created the company?
Speaker 3 (25:12):
Yeah, there's a couple.
So, like I said, I've justmoved to the US and I'm very
much enjoying living in New Yorkand leaning in heavily to US
culture and this isn't reallygoing to be like the emotifan
that you're looking for, but Ithink it speaks to me as a human
.
So I'm a big sports fan and sofootball, rugby, so football for
(25:33):
me.
Big man, united fan, yourbrothers from another mother.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
I've been following the United since 92.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
I love it Well, I'm actually named after Mark Hughes
, so you will be familiar withhim and my brother's, named
after.
Ryan Giggs.
So, yeah, it runs deep in ourfamily and the worst thing about
the US is the fact that youguys call it soccer.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Oh no, I don't know.
It's football.
You use your foot with the ball, that's why it's football.
Don't get me wrong.
I went to the University ofAlabama for undergrad, so I love
college football.
But no, I've played soccergrowing up, so I get it.
But no, I've been followinginternational football and
United is my team, like Iliterally could have a tattoo.
(26:17):
I've been old Trafford probablyalmost 100 times.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
I love it.
I do still have two seasontickets.
So often anymore but next timenext time we're in the UK we're
going to old Trafford together.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah.
All right, I interrupted you,I'm sorry, so you're getting
into the.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
You're getting into sports, getting into sports, and
my American sport of choice isbasketball.
We've got basketball, and so Iwas fortunate enough to be at
Madison Square Garden for theNew York Knicks Miami Heat
Playoff game, the one that theKnicks won.
And I'm telling this storybecause one of the major
sponsors of the NBA, who shallnot be named, I saw was
(26:54):
sponsoring this event and I waslike sponsoring the NBA?
I was like, wow, that's cool.
I never even heard of thiscompany.
It's a US business.
And I was actually there withBrett, one of our guys, and I
said, brett, how cool would itbe if that company used Hackajob
?
This is amazing, I'm gettinginto basketball and Brett went
away and obviously wanting toimpress, and a couple of weeks
later I saw them pop up in oursales force.
(27:15):
I was like, oh, they're now anopportunity and they just signed
up with us two weeks ago, whichis our largest US customer so
far in terms of employees side,our 50,000 person organization,
and we're supporting them allacross the US with their tech
hiring.
So that was definitely a verysweet moment recently.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
I was this close a couple of years back to writing
a book with an Argentiniancalled Finding Messy, and the
bit was is looking through asports, basically a football
club we could use Barcelona ifwe wanted, or United and looking
at HR.
The entire spectrum of HR,recruiting and HR is all done in
(27:52):
a football club.
So there's sourcing, there'straining, there's compensation,
like all the stuff that we havein our brains around, all the TA
stuff, but also, once theybecome employees, all the HR
stuff.
That's all done in a footballclub.
It might not be done well, butat Liverpool and the city, but
(28:14):
it's.
It's one of those deals thatyou can actually look at town,
acquisition and HR through thefootball lens and see
fascinating things.
So I'm glad that we're alreadytogether or we're already
connected.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
Totally, william.
If you ever want to write thatbook, you've got a co offering
me I would.
I would love to study HR andtown acquisition and
unfortunately are not so.
Friends over at the PlummanCity have done a much better job
than us in talent acquisitionover the last five years.
So in your what?
Speaker 2 (28:44):
But that's good because it motivates us and
we've done we've had a.
We've had a.
I love our manager.
A lepsiway love our manager.
I think we finally foundsomebody, after Sir Alex, to
step in and actually reallycommand a team.
I'm excited, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
I absolutely agree.
Yeah, it's going to bedefinitely going to be an
exciting season and I think thathe's bringing back that club
first culture.
No player is bigger than theclub and I think that you've
made some big, brave decisionswhich you've got to commend him
for.
So, yeah, I'm very excited forthe season ahead.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
And again, that's what you do in HR.
What's what's fascinating aboutthat is you have to make brave
decisions about talent.
Again, it's talent.
Anyhow, we could have an entirepodcast about United, but we're
not going to.
There's some great ones outthere Anyhow.
Mark, thank you so much.
I know how busy you are.
Thank you for carving out timefor us.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
William, this has been a pleasure and definitely
one of the more enjoyablepodcasts I have done.
So thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Absolutely, and thanks for everyone listening
Until next time, thanks.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
You've been listening to Recruiting Daly's use case
podcast.
Be sure to subscribe on yourfavorite platform and hit us up
at recruiting dailycom.
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