September 9, 2023 • 25 mins
Ready to unlock the complexities of talent acquisition? Join us as we engage in an in-depth conversation with Brianna Rooney, a seasoned expert from TalentPerch, who unveils the intricacies of strategic recruiting within VC-backed startups. Brianna shares some hard-earned wisdom about the common pitfalls founders and talent acquisition teams encounter, honing in on the often-underestimated roles of HR and TA. She also delves into the latest trends in executive search roles, the mounting influx of applicants and the absolute necessity of a thorough review process.
Moreover, we take a journey into the process of strategic recruitment, exploring the art of creating effective job descriptions, understanding roles, and the vital role of ROI in hiring. Brianna also reveals her unique approach to client pitches and illuminates the current trend of hiring for senior and staff level roles, including the biases many companies hold towards early Uber, early LinkedIn, and other high-profile companies. We further explore the array of technologies available for sourcing candidates and the importance of ensuring a diverse pool of candidate. So buckle up as we navigate the labyrinthine world of talent acquisition with our insightful guest, Brianna Rooney.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Recruiting Daly's Use Case Podcast, a show
dedicated to the storytellingthat happens or should happen
when practitioners purchasetechnology.
Each episode is designed toinspire new ways and ideas to
make your business better as wespeak with the brightest minds
in recruitment and HR tech.
That's what we do.
Here's your host, WilliamTincup.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
This is William Tincup and you're listening to
the Use Case Podcast.
Today we have Breanna on fromTalentPurch.
We'll be learning about thebusiness case, the use case, for
TalentPurch Breanna.
Would you do us a favor andintroduce both yourself and
TalentPurch?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Sure Thanks, William.
Yeah, I am Breanna Rooney fromTalentPurch.
Also have the YouTubemillionaire recruiter and
TalentPurch is essentially justyour on-demand strategic
recruiting solution foreverything.
But what we really want tofocus on is sustainability,
because I think that is amassive topic right now that if
you want to get into, you canget into.
But we offer both sides.
(01:03):
We offer an embedded staffaugmentation approach or also a
contingency approach, and we canalso build TA from scratch.
So we want to just move withthe client.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I love that Any particular industries or roles
that you all fill that are kindof niche-y or anything like that
.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Yeah, I've lived in SexyTech for the last 15 years,
which I deem the Bay Area by theway Right my own thing, yeah,
all VC-backed stuff.
I love Series A, series B,because you get to really be
strategic there and have, Ithink, a lot more fun and people
aren't just numbers at thatpoint.
And, yeah, we've been doingthat for a while and then, most
recently, we've been living inthe exec world, which is super
(01:45):
interesting and it moves alittle bit different.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Yes, it does.
It's interesting We'll get tothat in a second.
So VC-backed where do you see?
I guess at this point foundersmake mistakes when it comes to
talent acquisition.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
How long do you have William?
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Sorry.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
In alphabetical order oh my God.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
So I think there's so many issues.
One we're still don't care tounderstand it, I think, which is
a problem.
You get really lucky sometimeswhen they start to build with
DEIB at the beginning, becausethat's its own separate issue,
and I would say they don't alignwhat needs to be done, meaning,
do we need this person fulltime or do we need, could we
(02:29):
outsource this?
How long do we need this person?
And I think generally, peoplethink if we want something done
faster, we'll just hire morepeople, and I think it's the
complete opposite.
I think leaner teams do morethings.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Yeah, and it's, I think, along with not really
understanding talent acquisition, they don't understand the role
that HR and TA play.
It's obvious to me, especiallywith some of the downturn stuff
that we've had the last coupleof years, it's like people
gutting their TA teams.
I'm like this is the perfecttime to actually fix things.
I know this isn't the moment togut.
(03:04):
This is the moment to go andfigure out, reconfigure your
tools, your process.
This is actually the time tohave your team, because they
can't do it when the car'smoving.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
I know, and people try to do it and I'm like things
fall all over the place.
I actually spoke to someone whowent from what he was a team of
one in TA and then went to 13,and now he's back to one.
I was like, oh my gosh, talk methrough this.
And he's yeah, I now doheadcount and I'm like an HR VP.
I do org development capacityplanning.
Oh, yeah, I do topsubscriptions.
(03:32):
I'm like oh, my God.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Can you imagine how difficult to be successful at
that job.
Some of it's you never have thesame day twice.
Okay, that's, I could see thatbeing an upside, but also it's
never done.
Like you like the lease withrecruiting.
When you fill a position, it'sdone for that day.
At least there's a moment ofcompletion.
Right In that job there's nomoment.
(03:56):
It's just you're going from onefire.
Really you should have afireman's hat put together
because you're going from onefire to the next fire, to the
next fire.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Not to mention keeping.
We're brand ambassadors, we'reproject managers.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Oh yeah, good point.
Oh yeah, and they keep addingto the list.
Oh, by the way, you gotta makesure our culture works.
Oh, okay, great.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Oh, yeah, oh.
By the way, our retention isreally crappy, oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Yeah, yeah.
We just laid off 10,000 people,so I think morale is going to
be down for a week or two andthen we'll come back to that.
So you said something aboutexecutive search being a little
bit different kind of animal.
I've obviously you've done thisfor a long time.
You knew that already, but whatshocked you about it being
different?
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Actually I think it's a trend right now.
I'm curious if you see it orother people on your podcast see
it.
But I think there was a timewhere we didn't see a lot of
exec roles posted and we havejust been seeing a slew of them
lately, which is reallyinteresting, and then to see 100
plus applicants on these rolesis like wild.
So I don't think that.
(04:58):
I think just applicants ingeneral.
I talked to one company thatwas like our application rate
went up 200%.
I'm like okay, that's notsustainable.
You can't look through allthose people, right?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
No, they think that's a good thing.
The volume was a good thing along time ago, not now.
You want those thousand peopleto apply to your job opening.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Yeah, definitely not now, and so it's wild to then
see like companies be like oh mygod, we posted an exec role and
it was like the biggest mistakeever, because that's the stuff
that, like you, do really haveto be very I hate to use the
word strategic all the time, butI guess intentional.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Right.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
So I would say what's interesting is that a lot of
the top isn't agreeing with whothey need in these spots, so
I've been very careful to takeon roles that, honestly, haven't
been open for a little while.
So I'm sorry that have beenopen for a while, so meaning
like they've already got itwrong and now we're ready to get
it right.
So I've been really carefulwith that, like I don't really
(05:50):
want to take on new C-suiteroles unless they've been there
done that before.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Do you have to do the the because you've actually
searched for years.
Head hunting for years was donein the shadows.
It was done what I'll just saymostly men, mostly white, mostly
country club and golf coursesand stuff like that.
It's just like clandestine.
I remember my dad in the 70stold me about yes, his
headhunter took me out and whenhe said headhunter, of course
(06:17):
I'm like headhunter, he collectsheads.
What the hell is.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
He's a recruiter, he's a recruiter.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Yeah, exactly, just came out of the amazon.
He has all these headscollected around his neck but he
, literally he said no, he'sjust, he's a recruiter, he's
just trying to help you find anew job and this and the other.
He's got a bunch of differentopportunities.
So I'm like, but it was soclandestine to hear you actually
talk.
Yeah, no, people are using thedeed, which is interesting in
(06:45):
and of itself because you'reputting it out there in front of
a much larger audience, butthat's going to attract a lot
more people that are justapplying to a thousand jobs in a
day type stuff.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Yep, it's very interesting.
So I love when they're likeokay, now we're ready for a firm
.
And then your take on this isI'm not really big into retained
searches for me.
I love contingency and I knowthat on paper, on the P&L,
retained is the way, better way.
I love contingency because Iget to spread my wings and do my
thing.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
It's how you came up too.
It's like you didn't come upwith this the luxury of retained
.
I think retained is closer tocorporate in the sense of, hey,
it will happen or it won'thappen, we still get a check,
whereas and again, that's builtfor a lot of people that's fine.
But for people that like tolike I have a friend here in
(07:36):
Dallas who started with AeroTechand then built his own firm,
sold it, etc.
Like he likes to hunt, like helike having a check every month
that he wants to hunt, he wantsto find a person, he wants to do
the placement and he wants toget the fee because there's
something in that, that thewhole full circle.
That really is the juice.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
I think it's really motivating and I think then you
care a lot more about who youfind Right and like the
conversations can be a lotricher.
And you know, I tend likepeople look on the outside and
be like, oh, a continuity, it'sjust transactional, but I
actually think it can get reallylike intimate.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Yeah, I love it.
Hey, it doesn't have to betransactional.
It can be.
If that's their desire, thenthat's probably not a good fit
for you.
If they're basically putting itout with five or six different
people and it's all contingent,so that's okay, but at the same
time it's, you don't mindcompetition but at the same time
you want to have a relationshipwith the people.
Now you mentioned people thathave had the job open for a
(08:38):
while are a little bit more.
Maybe they're at the placewhere they finally get it that
the 1200 resumes isn't a goodidea, et cetera.
What do you coach them to?
Is it reformatting andrethinking what the job is or
what they want out of the job?
Speaker 3 (08:56):
I think it's more of what they want out of the job,
like, what do they want thisperson to accomplish, and they
all have to agree, and I thinkthat's that tends to be.
The problem is that maybe thehigher up doesn't agree with the
person that this person'sreporting to, so there's just
things that are broken.
And I think that when a companycan talk to me about, hey, this
is what this person's going toaccomplish in 90 days to a year,
(09:20):
this is what we need, then Ilike light up, I'm like, oh, yay
, okay, so you get it.
And then also I even love whenthey narrow it down for me.
Or it's like, hey, I wantpeople from this industry
because it translates, becauseof this reason, that's the good
stuff for me, and I think youhave to get it wrong first in
order to fully figure that out.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
There's some marriage advice in there for everyone
that's listening.
First of all, the accomplishdeal, which is what I like.
That is really.
It's agreement, permission andagreement, getting all the
whomever the team is involved,and in saying, okay, let's take
the job descriptions as it'scurrently and put it off to the
side.
What do they need to accomplish?
And then they then better, theybetter, around the 15 different
(10:03):
things that they have toaccomplish, they go okay, that
sounds reasonable.
What are the three things theyhave to do?
And getting them to agree,first of all, I can see that
it's fun, but how do you gettheir time?
How do you get them to agree togive you 30 minutes an hour or
whatever?
Are you doing this on site?
How do you get them in the roomand to agree?
(10:26):
I could get the agreement partBecause basically, I hear what
you're saying, helen.
Ted, I hear what you're saying.
What if we said, like pullingthem together, like I get that
part?
But I also see these peoplebeing really busy and not
wanting to necessarily help.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Yeah.
So I like to ask them, likewhat happens and what doesn't
get done?
If we can't do this, we can'thire this person.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
What deadlines?
Speaker 3 (10:49):
do you miss?
What projects do you have tolet go?
Are teammates upset becausethey're overworked?
What communication fails?
Like stuff like that I keep.
I always go back to thebusiness line here, like the ROI
, like what happens when thisperson doesn't enter your
company in three months.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Yeah, Do you find?
Speaker 3 (11:06):
I don't want to waste their time and so I think I do
a really good job and I makesure that my employees do a good
job with this.
Isn't that moment to think oh,thank you so much for meeting
with me.
No, this is.
This goes both ways.
We're super busy, you're superbusy.
I don't want to sit here and goback and forth.
I just want to figure out howwe're going to make this work.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Once you've got the agreement their agreement on
what the position is what's yournext step?
What do you do?
Speaker 3 (11:32):
after that, so I like to go over it again.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Here's what we all agreed to.
Yeah, all right, good, yeah,yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Actually I'm really transparent in this part,
whereas I have what I call aclient pitch, phone pitch,
whatever you want to call itwhere I have all of this
information, everything that weagreed to, everything they're
hiring, the salary, the equity,like anything, and everything
that they want, and I actuallyshare it with them.
So I'm like, hey, great, theseare the notes I took.
Here's what my team knows,here's what, canada Experience
wise, we're doing.
(12:03):
Here's the interview processyou've already committed to.
If anything's wrong, you got tolet me know now, because this
is it's going to go south Everytime we change things, like it's
going to take one more time andit's no one's happy about that.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
And then we got to have another meeting and
everyone no one wants that.
No one wants another meeting.
These are certain positionsthat you'll thrive in right now.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
Yeah.
So I would say we're seeing alot of senior and staff level
roles, like the tippity-top ICs.
Essentially I love that stuff,I think that's really fun, I
love that path.
As opposed to managers, I thinkwe're seeing less managers,
less leader roles, because Ithink again it's like we let all
these people go.
Now we need to pick projectsback up again, so then I'm sure
(12:47):
then they'll go back into hiringmanagers and it'll be this.
Yeah, I would say stuff, levelengineering AI, of course is
mega.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Oh, my God yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Everybody's divested of some of the bets that they
made in the years past and Web3.0, and Metaverse and
Blockchain whatever and they'reall switching to bets on AI and
generative AI in particular.
We don't have enough of thosepeople available in the world,
much less like recruiting themis not going to be easy period.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
I just saw this report.
I can't even think of who itwas from, but anyways, I just
read this, basically talkingabout the different salaries
that AI engineers are startingto get and by and stuff.
It's freaking mega.
So the question is, are wegoing to hire up all these
people again and then?
Speaker 2 (13:38):
have a layoff 100%, 100%.
This is what we do, and it'snot just Silicon Valley.
This is actually what we do.
This it's so emotional whereit's like a bit of FOMO, totally
.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
I think, exactly right.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
If we're Google, we're just going to gather all
of them together and we don'tknow exactly what we're going to
do with them yet.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
But we're going to have them just in case.
But we don't want.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Facebook to have them , or we don't want to pick
somebody else to have them.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
It's a pissing war, like all the time it is it is it
is.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
So a question, two questions.
One is around do you find somefolks that you're interacting
with that they love talent thatcomes from, let's say,
Salesforce?
It's a great example.
So I love people that have beenat Salesforce.
Just because they weresuccessful at Salesforce doesn't
necessarily mean they'll besuccessful elsewhere.
(14:31):
Or pick Facebook Doesn't reallymatter the idea of it, but do
they already come with?
I like people from this firm orthis industry.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
All the different biases yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
I would say, if I were to pick one strong bias
that everybody has, theydefinitely want early Uber,
early LinkedIn, stuff like that.
But it doesn't seem to becurrent companies anymore, not
like it used to be.
I used to get asked all thetime oh my God, if you get
Airbnb?
And they wouldn't say earlyAirbnb, it was just Airbnb.
But now I think companies aregetting very specific early
(15:08):
people from high profilecompanies is who they want.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Is that because they understand scale?
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Exactly.
They want to understand thegrowth and the scale problems.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
And how fast things change.
Because those people again,just because they did it doesn't
necessarily mean they want todo it again.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
For sure.
Okay, something that I'velearned in the last couple of
years, like with the remote life, and I'll be very honest, I
don't love it.
I could change that.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
You're kidding Really .
Speaker 3 (15:37):
I hate it.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
I'm going to go out on a limb.
You remind me of a woman in NewYork that owns a staffing firm
and she was going to bat shitcrazy during COVID Because she
was just like I have to go to anoffice, I have to, I can't stay
, and she's got an apartment inManhattan.
I'm like, dude, you live in alife.
This is great.
No, this is not great.
I hate this.
I hate this.
(16:00):
She's extrovert.
Most people that thrive inrecruiting are extroverts.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Yeah, I dig the energy, I did it.
There's so many like you callit, like water cooler
conversations, but I getinspired from all over the place
and it comes from people.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Yeah, and if you're going from Zoom call to Zoom
call, it's a little bit harderto do that.
Turns out.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Oh, it's exhausting, Like people will be like, hey,
do you want to do?
Speaker 2 (16:23):
a regular call?
Yes, yes, let's do that.
You mean on a phone?
Oh wow, let's try that, let'sdo.
Do you have a landline?
Oh my God, that'd be great.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
Hey, I have a landline for my kids.
I want you to know I do.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Here in this part of the Hiddon Museum is what we
call a rotary phone.
Yeah, two things.
One is around knockoutquestions.
What's your take on knockoutquestions?
Speaker 3 (16:46):
I don't mind them.
Sometimes I feel like I don'tmove as fast.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
With clients.
Do you have them?
Do you navigate them towards aplace where there's okay, what's
something that's a non-starter?
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Oh, I get what you're asking me.
I thought you were going togive me fire questions.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Yeah, you're good, it's the firing round.
All right, brie, let's go.
They must have worked at NASA,like period in story.
If they haven't worked at NASA,we can't.
They just can't work here.
Stuff like that, it's a trueknockout.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Oh, okay, I like to I take it a couple of different
ways.
Like when I say, hey, who'syour hit list Like where do you
want people from what we justtalked about?
And then I'll say, who do younot want people from Like, where
do you not want people fromLike?
Every single time they've comein you're like, oh God, not
these people.
So I've actually had companiesbe very specific with this.
So, if you remember, like whenMicrosoft bought LinkedIn, it
(17:35):
was like this big deal and Ithink a lot of companies got
super excited to grab peoplefrom there and then all of a
sudden it was like this one eraof LinkedIn, like when they must
have gone through a hypergrowth stage, which they got a
little sloppy, and so I startedhaving companies literally list
out years.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
God, don't get these here.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Oh, that's fantastic.
From 2010 to 2015,.
Yeah, nobody, they're just thatno.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
It's just hilarious.
It's like who comes up withthis and how many people went
wrong in order for this to be.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Uh-huh, and who is running the ship?
That's what I want to know.
Like, who's out there now witha book or a podcast or doing a
bunch of successful stufftalking about an era that really
was an abomination?
That'd be pretty quick to know.
What do you think about diverseslates of candidates?
Like and then pass thetheoretical?
Like can you work in a harderarea in the world?
Try to find talent that's hardto find, okay, check and then
(18:32):
getting it in front of people,et cetera.
Like I could see it beingreally easy to put middle-aged,
paraphrased white guys in frontof most of your clients maybe
younger, right, so that'd be alittle bit easier, but that's
not what you want to do, that'snot what we need you to do, et
cetera.
Like, how hard is it to?
Then I got a slate ofcandidates.
(18:53):
I got three.
They're really good, butthey're all the same.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Now I can put them in front of them, or I can wait
another two weeks or a week, andI could probably have some
diversity there.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
What's yeah, so I send as I get them.
Oh, okay, I don't like to sendin batches.
I like to have a lot of urgencythere and I like to just see
what I do when I do it.
But with that said, yeah, thediverse side, I like to start.
But when I do my search, I dothem a few different ways.
I like to tangent source a lotand I like to make sure that
(19:28):
once I find let's just say onceI find this amazing woman
candidate, that I do a tangenton this profile and find as many
others just as wonderful as sheis and I do that reach out
first.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Oh cool.
What technology, what's?
I ask a recruiter what theirfavorite.
Sourcing technology isdangerous on so many levels, but
you've got a favorite for rightnow.
So what's your favorite rightnow?
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Yeah, so I'm still an old school LinkedIn recruiter
girl.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
I love that.
I think there's just so manygreat ways to do that, but I
will say that, as far as pairingit with Covey getCoveycom,
covey Scout is like bonkers.
It is AI and normally anythingthat messes with my sourcing.
I'm like get out of here.
I can do this, I can do better,but it's the brain of a
(20:17):
recruiter.
I'm doing a search right nowwhere it asks you to put in all
of the different categories, thedifferent industries, company
sizes, scale, for example,someone who's managed B2C
companies, but please rejectGoogle or Microsoft.
Wow, you can say that stuff tothis bot instead of Googling it
(20:37):
all and finding out differentBoolean ways to do it.
It's freaking cool, so that'smy favorite.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Right, I love that.
I love that.
I've always seen it being useda couple of times, but I love
just the premise.
By the way, I just love thepremise of how it is.
And again, LinkedIn Recruiter.
Everyone complains aboutLinkedIn Recruiter, especially
on the corporate side.
They complain about LinkedInRecruiter, yet everyone has
licenses.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
I know.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
This is the craziest thing in the world to me.
I'm like if you complain aboutit, you should probably stop
using it.
I don't know, I'm just gonnathrow it out there.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
That is funny.
But I will say I know I hearpeople knock on it all the time
but Always.
But it's good yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Especially for specific types of talent.
If you're trying to gettruckers in Arkansas, okay,
maybe LinkedIn Recruiter's notthe way, got it Fair enough.
But outside of that, and maybeeven some of the nuanced talent
that you go after, maybe a StackOverflow or GitHub or some
other types of communities mightbe a better.
But still, by and large, again,I think it's super.
(21:38):
I think it's more helpful thanit gets credit.
I think it's a lot.
I think so too.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
It moves and grooves and if I'm gonna go off LinkedIn
like fully off LinkedIn I don'tknow if you've seen this yet,
but Better Leap is really coolso, for example, if I want to
get people off of Stack andGitHub and stuff like Better
Leap sources off of it.
It sources all over the place.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Oh, that's cool.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
So that's really cool too.
It's newer so.
I want heavier searchcapabilities.
But yeah, it's definitely coolto search off LinkedIn because
you feel I think you feel likejustifying oh, I really found
this person.
I don't think it matters whereyou find them, that's your
problem?
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Not at all.
That's the thing is no onereally they'll ask.
Somebody will at one point careabout source of hire, but by
and large, most executivescouldn't spell source of hire if
you gave them the letters.
They don't care, they just wantthe person to take an interview
and then make sure they make agood hire.
That's all they care.
I wanted to go back to.
(22:33):
Something you mentioned at thevery beginning is sustainability
, because we don't talk about itenough.
So what's your current take onsustainability in recruiting?
Speaker 3 (22:42):
Oh, I love this subject so much.
Again, this goes back to thebusiness Like you can't have
sustainability if your recruiteror head of town or whoever you
have, isn't at the seat of thetable.
I don't think that they askthose hard questions.
I think you really could buildsuch a great forecast.
(23:02):
You could talk about ROI, everysingle person that you have,
and how long it takes for themto ramp up.
If you want to bring learningdevelopment to this, how much
faster you could do things.
I think everyone wants thingsdone quickly.
And then they're like oh wait,what about this?
Oh wait, what about this?
And again it goes back to whatI said in the beginning, where
it's like hiring more peopledoesn't mean you got the job
(23:25):
done faster or better.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
That's right.
It's when you're talking.
It reminds me of IBM used tohave this project management
strategy where they would thinkabout the product for a third of
the product so let's say it's athree month project.
For a third of that, for 30days they just think it planned
and make sure they reallythought about all the things
(23:47):
that are tied together.
Then for a third of that,they'd work the plan and go do
the project and then on the backthird they would revisit what
they thought of and what theydid and where they need to make
changes in the future.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Well, I thought.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Isn't it genius?
Speaker 3 (24:05):
Wait, why did they get rid of it?
You said they got rid of it.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
I don't know if they got rid of it, but I just I love
the idea of you give yourselfsome time to think on the front
end about what could happen,what needs to happen, and then
you learn which is the truelearning which, again, in both
HR and TA, we don't giveourselves enough time to learn.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Just in general, just hard stop.
But even when it's about aparticular search, like we go
through it.
We run through it fast, done,completion, and it's more on to
the next thing.
It's pause and breathe.
And then what did you learn?
How could you institutionalizethat learning and how could you
share that with other people onyour team, et cetera.
(24:46):
So yeah, Brian, I could talk toyou all day.
And left unchecked, I will.
You got like a job and stufflike that.
So thank you so much for comingon the podcast.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
Yeah, thank you.
I love the questions.
I love where you're going.
It's very thoughtful.
Recruited in TA.
I like it.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
There you go, and thanks again for coming on and
thanks for everyone listening,until next time.
Welcome to Recruiting Daly's Use Case Podcast, a show
dedicated to the storytellingthat happens or should happen
when practitioners purchasetechnology.
Each episode is designed toinspire new ways and ideas to
make your business better as wespeak with the brightest minds
in recruitment and HR tech.
That's what we do.
Here's your host, WilliamTincup.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
This is William Tincup and you're listening to
the Use Case Podcast.
Today we have Breanna on fromTalentPurch.
We'll be learning about thebusiness case, the use case, for
TalentPurch Breanna.
Would you do us a favor andintroduce both yourself and
TalentPurch?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Sure Thanks, William.
Yeah, I am Breanna Rooney fromTalentPurch.
Also have the YouTubemillionaire recruiter and
TalentPurch is essentially justyour on-demand strategic
recruiting solution foreverything.
But what we really want tofocus on is sustainability,
because I think that is amassive topic right now that if
you want to get into, you canget into.
But we offer both sides.
(01:03):
We offer an embedded staffaugmentation approach or also a
contingency approach, and we canalso build TA from scratch.
So we want to just move withthe client.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I love that Any particular industries or roles
that you all fill that are kindof niche-y or anything like that
.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Yeah, I've lived in SexyTech for the last 15 years,
which I deem the Bay Area by theway Right my own thing, yeah,
all VC-backed stuff.
I love Series A, series B,because you get to really be
strategic there and have, Ithink, a lot more fun and people
aren't just numbers at thatpoint.
And, yeah, we've been doingthat for a while and then, most
recently, we've been living inthe exec world, which is super
(01:45):
interesting and it moves alittle bit different.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Yes, it does.
It's interesting We'll get tothat in a second.
So VC-backed where do you see?
I guess at this point foundersmake mistakes when it comes to
talent acquisition.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
How long do you have William?
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Sorry.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
In alphabetical order oh my God.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
So I think there's so many issues.
One we're still don't care tounderstand it, I think, which is
a problem.
You get really lucky sometimeswhen they start to build with
DEIB at the beginning, becausethat's its own separate issue,
and I would say they don't alignwhat needs to be done, meaning,
do we need this person fulltime or do we need, could we
(02:29):
outsource this?
How long do we need this person?
And I think generally, peoplethink if we want something done
faster, we'll just hire morepeople, and I think it's the
complete opposite.
I think leaner teams do morethings.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Yeah, and it's, I think, along with not really
understanding talent acquisition, they don't understand the role
that HR and TA play.
It's obvious to me, especiallywith some of the downturn stuff
that we've had the last coupleof years, it's like people
gutting their TA teams.
I'm like this is the perfecttime to actually fix things.
I know this isn't the moment togut.
(03:04):
This is the moment to go andfigure out, reconfigure your
tools, your process.
This is actually the time tohave your team, because they
can't do it when the car'smoving.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
I know, and people try to do it and I'm like things
fall all over the place.
I actually spoke to someone whowent from what he was a team of
one in TA and then went to 13,and now he's back to one.
I was like, oh my gosh, talk methrough this.
And he's yeah, I now doheadcount and I'm like an HR VP.
I do org development capacityplanning.
Oh, yeah, I do topsubscriptions.
(03:32):
I'm like oh, my God.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Can you imagine how difficult to be successful at
that job.
Some of it's you never have thesame day twice.
Okay, that's, I could see thatbeing an upside, but also it's
never done.
Like you like the lease withrecruiting.
When you fill a position, it'sdone for that day.
At least there's a moment ofcompletion.
Right In that job there's nomoment.
(03:56):
It's just you're going from onefire.
Really you should have afireman's hat put together
because you're going from onefire to the next fire, to the
next fire.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Not to mention keeping.
We're brand ambassadors, we'reproject managers.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Oh yeah, good point.
Oh yeah, and they keep addingto the list.
Oh, by the way, you gotta makesure our culture works.
Oh, okay, great.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Oh, yeah, oh.
By the way, our retention isreally crappy, oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Yeah, yeah.
We just laid off 10,000 people,so I think morale is going to
be down for a week or two andthen we'll come back to that.
So you said something aboutexecutive search being a little
bit different kind of animal.
I've obviously you've done thisfor a long time.
You knew that already, but whatshocked you about it being
different?
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Actually I think it's a trend right now.
I'm curious if you see it orother people on your podcast see
it.
But I think there was a timewhere we didn't see a lot of
exec roles posted and we havejust been seeing a slew of them
lately, which is reallyinteresting, and then to see 100
plus applicants on these rolesis like wild.
So I don't think that.
(04:58):
I think just applicants ingeneral.
I talked to one company thatwas like our application rate
went up 200%.
I'm like okay, that's notsustainable.
You can't look through allthose people, right?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
No, they think that's a good thing.
The volume was a good thing along time ago, not now.
You want those thousand peopleto apply to your job opening.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Yeah, definitely not now, and so it's wild to then
see like companies be like oh mygod, we posted an exec role and
it was like the biggest mistakeever, because that's the stuff
that, like you, do really haveto be very I hate to use the
word strategic all the time, butI guess intentional.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Right.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
So I would say what's interesting is that a lot of
the top isn't agreeing with whothey need in these spots, so
I've been very careful to takeon roles that, honestly, haven't
been open for a little while.
So I'm sorry that have beenopen for a while, so meaning
like they've already got itwrong and now we're ready to get
it right.
So I've been really carefulwith that, like I don't really
(05:50):
want to take on new C-suiteroles unless they've been there
done that before.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Do you have to do the the because you've actually
searched for years.
Head hunting for years was donein the shadows.
It was done what I'll just saymostly men, mostly white, mostly
country club and golf coursesand stuff like that.
It's just like clandestine.
I remember my dad in the 70stold me about yes, his
headhunter took me out and whenhe said headhunter, of course
(06:17):
I'm like headhunter, he collectsheads.
What the hell is.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
He's a recruiter, he's a recruiter.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Yeah, exactly, just came out of the amazon.
He has all these headscollected around his neck but he
, literally he said no, he'sjust, he's a recruiter, he's
just trying to help you find anew job and this and the other.
He's got a bunch of differentopportunities.
So I'm like, but it was soclandestine to hear you actually
talk.
Yeah, no, people are using thedeed, which is interesting in
(06:45):
and of itself because you'reputting it out there in front of
a much larger audience, butthat's going to attract a lot
more people that are justapplying to a thousand jobs in a
day type stuff.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Yep, it's very interesting.
So I love when they're likeokay, now we're ready for a firm
.
And then your take on this isI'm not really big into retained
searches for me.
I love contingency and I knowthat on paper, on the P&L,
retained is the way, better way.
I love contingency because Iget to spread my wings and do my
thing.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
It's how you came up too.
It's like you didn't come upwith this the luxury of retained
.
I think retained is closer tocorporate in the sense of, hey,
it will happen or it won'thappen, we still get a check,
whereas and again, that's builtfor a lot of people that's fine.
But for people that like tolike I have a friend here in
(07:36):
Dallas who started with AeroTechand then built his own firm,
sold it, etc.
Like he likes to hunt, like helike having a check every month
that he wants to hunt, he wantsto find a person, he wants to do
the placement and he wants toget the fee because there's
something in that, that thewhole full circle.
That really is the juice.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
I think it's really motivating and I think then you
care a lot more about who youfind Right and like the
conversations can be a lotricher.
And you know, I tend likepeople look on the outside and
be like, oh, a continuity, it'sjust transactional, but I
actually think it can get reallylike intimate.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Yeah, I love it.
Hey, it doesn't have to betransactional.
It can be.
If that's their desire, thenthat's probably not a good fit
for you.
If they're basically putting itout with five or six different
people and it's all contingent,so that's okay, but at the same
time it's, you don't mindcompetition but at the same time
you want to have a relationshipwith the people.
Now you mentioned people thathave had the job open for a
(08:38):
while are a little bit more.
Maybe they're at the placewhere they finally get it that
the 1200 resumes isn't a goodidea, et cetera.
What do you coach them to?
Is it reformatting andrethinking what the job is or
what they want out of the job?
Speaker 3 (08:56):
I think it's more of what they want out of the job,
like, what do they want thisperson to accomplish, and they
all have to agree, and I thinkthat's that tends to be.
The problem is that maybe thehigher up doesn't agree with the
person that this person'sreporting to, so there's just
things that are broken.
And I think that when a companycan talk to me about, hey, this
is what this person's going toaccomplish in 90 days to a year,
(09:20):
this is what we need, then Ilike light up, I'm like, oh, yay
, okay, so you get it.
And then also I even love whenthey narrow it down for me.
Or it's like, hey, I wantpeople from this industry
because it translates, becauseof this reason, that's the good
stuff for me, and I think youhave to get it wrong first in
order to fully figure that out.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
There's some marriage advice in there for everyone
that's listening.
First of all, the accomplishdeal, which is what I like.
That is really.
It's agreement, permission andagreement, getting all the
whomever the team is involved,and in saying, okay, let's take
the job descriptions as it'scurrently and put it off to the
side.
What do they need to accomplish?
And then they then better, theybetter, around the 15 different
(10:03):
things that they have toaccomplish, they go okay, that
sounds reasonable.
What are the three things theyhave to do?
And getting them to agree,first of all, I can see that
it's fun, but how do you gettheir time?
How do you get them to agree togive you 30 minutes an hour or
whatever?
Are you doing this on site?
How do you get them in the roomand to agree?
(10:26):
I could get the agreement partBecause basically, I hear what
you're saying, helen.
Ted, I hear what you're saying.
What if we said, like pullingthem together, like I get that
part?
But I also see these peoplebeing really busy and not
wanting to necessarily help.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Yeah.
So I like to ask them, likewhat happens and what doesn't
get done?
If we can't do this, we can'thire this person.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
What deadlines?
Speaker 3 (10:49):
do you miss?
What projects do you have tolet go?
Are teammates upset becausethey're overworked?
What communication fails?
Like stuff like that I keep.
I always go back to thebusiness line here, like the ROI
, like what happens when thisperson doesn't enter your
company in three months.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Yeah, Do you find?
Speaker 3 (11:06):
I don't want to waste their time and so I think I do
a really good job and I makesure that my employees do a good
job with this.
Isn't that moment to think oh,thank you so much for meeting
with me.
No, this is.
This goes both ways.
We're super busy, you're superbusy.
I don't want to sit here and goback and forth.
I just want to figure out howwe're going to make this work.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Once you've got the agreement their agreement on
what the position is what's yournext step?
What do you do?
Speaker 3 (11:32):
after that, so I like to go over it again.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Here's what we all agreed to.
Yeah, all right, good, yeah,yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Actually I'm really transparent in this part,
whereas I have what I call aclient pitch, phone pitch,
whatever you want to call itwhere I have all of this
information, everything that weagreed to, everything they're
hiring, the salary, the equity,like anything, and everything
that they want, and I actuallyshare it with them.
So I'm like, hey, great, theseare the notes I took.
Here's what my team knows,here's what, canada Experience
wise, we're doing.
(12:03):
Here's the interview processyou've already committed to.
If anything's wrong, you got tolet me know now, because this
is it's going to go south Everytime we change things, like it's
going to take one more time andit's no one's happy about that.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
And then we got to have another meeting and
everyone no one wants that.
No one wants another meeting.
These are certain positionsthat you'll thrive in right now.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
Yeah.
So I would say we're seeing alot of senior and staff level
roles, like the tippity-top ICs.
Essentially I love that stuff,I think that's really fun, I
love that path.
As opposed to managers, I thinkwe're seeing less managers,
less leader roles, because Ithink again it's like we let all
these people go.
Now we need to pick projectsback up again, so then I'm sure
(12:47):
then they'll go back into hiringmanagers and it'll be this.
Yeah, I would say stuff, levelengineering AI, of course is
mega.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Oh, my God yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Everybody's divested of some of the bets that they
made in the years past and Web3.0, and Metaverse and
Blockchain whatever and they'reall switching to bets on AI and
generative AI in particular.
We don't have enough of thosepeople available in the world,
much less like recruiting themis not going to be easy period.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
I just saw this report.
I can't even think of who itwas from, but anyways, I just
read this, basically talkingabout the different salaries
that AI engineers are startingto get and by and stuff.
It's freaking mega.
So the question is, are wegoing to hire up all these
people again and then?
Speaker 2 (13:38):
have a layoff 100%, 100%.
This is what we do, and it'snot just Silicon Valley.
This is actually what we do.
This it's so emotional whereit's like a bit of FOMO, totally
.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
I think, exactly right.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
If we're Google, we're just going to gather all
of them together and we don'tknow exactly what we're going to
do with them yet.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
But we're going to have them just in case.
But we don't want.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Facebook to have them , or we don't want to pick
somebody else to have them.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
It's a pissing war, like all the time it is it is it
is.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
So a question, two questions.
One is around do you find somefolks that you're interacting
with that they love talent thatcomes from, let's say,
Salesforce?
It's a great example.
So I love people that have beenat Salesforce.
Just because they weresuccessful at Salesforce doesn't
necessarily mean they'll besuccessful elsewhere.
(14:31):
Or pick Facebook Doesn't reallymatter the idea of it, but do
they already come with?
I like people from this firm orthis industry.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
All the different biases yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
I would say, if I were to pick one strong bias
that everybody has, theydefinitely want early Uber,
early LinkedIn, stuff like that.
But it doesn't seem to becurrent companies anymore, not
like it used to be.
I used to get asked all thetime oh my God, if you get
Airbnb?
And they wouldn't say earlyAirbnb, it was just Airbnb.
But now I think companies aregetting very specific early
(15:08):
people from high profilecompanies is who they want.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Is that because they understand scale?
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Exactly.
They want to understand thegrowth and the scale problems.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
And how fast things change.
Because those people again,just because they did it doesn't
necessarily mean they want todo it again.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
For sure.
Okay, something that I'velearned in the last couple of
years, like with the remote life, and I'll be very honest, I
don't love it.
I could change that.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
You're kidding Really .
Speaker 3 (15:37):
I hate it.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
I'm going to go out on a limb.
You remind me of a woman in NewYork that owns a staffing firm
and she was going to bat shitcrazy during COVID Because she
was just like I have to go to anoffice, I have to, I can't stay
, and she's got an apartment inManhattan.
I'm like, dude, you live in alife.
This is great.
No, this is not great.
I hate this.
I hate this.
(16:00):
She's extrovert.
Most people that thrive inrecruiting are extroverts.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Yeah, I dig the energy, I did it.
There's so many like you callit, like water cooler
conversations, but I getinspired from all over the place
and it comes from people.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Yeah, and if you're going from Zoom call to Zoom
call, it's a little bit harderto do that.
Turns out.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Oh, it's exhausting, Like people will be like, hey,
do you want to do?
Speaker 2 (16:23):
a regular call?
Yes, yes, let's do that.
You mean on a phone?
Oh wow, let's try that, let'sdo.
Do you have a landline?
Oh my God, that'd be great.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
Hey, I have a landline for my kids.
I want you to know I do.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Here in this part of the Hiddon Museum is what we
call a rotary phone.
Yeah, two things.
One is around knockoutquestions.
What's your take on knockoutquestions?
Speaker 3 (16:46):
I don't mind them.
Sometimes I feel like I don'tmove as fast.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
With clients.
Do you have them?
Do you navigate them towards aplace where there's okay, what's
something that's a non-starter?
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Oh, I get what you're asking me.
I thought you were going togive me fire questions.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Yeah, you're good, it's the firing round.
All right, brie, let's go.
They must have worked at NASA,like period in story.
If they haven't worked at NASA,we can't.
They just can't work here.
Stuff like that, it's a trueknockout.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Oh, okay, I like to I take it a couple of different
ways.
Like when I say, hey, who'syour hit list Like where do you
want people from what we justtalked about?
And then I'll say, who do younot want people from Like, where
do you not want people fromLike?
Every single time they've comein you're like, oh God, not
these people.
So I've actually had companiesbe very specific with this.
So, if you remember, like whenMicrosoft bought LinkedIn, it
(17:35):
was like this big deal and Ithink a lot of companies got
super excited to grab peoplefrom there and then all of a
sudden it was like this one eraof LinkedIn, like when they must
have gone through a hypergrowth stage, which they got a
little sloppy, and so I startedhaving companies literally list
out years.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
God, don't get these here.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Oh, that's fantastic.
From 2010 to 2015,.
Yeah, nobody, they're just thatno.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
It's just hilarious.
It's like who comes up withthis and how many people went
wrong in order for this to be.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Uh-huh, and who is running the ship?
That's what I want to know.
Like, who's out there now witha book or a podcast or doing a
bunch of successful stufftalking about an era that really
was an abomination?
That'd be pretty quick to know.
What do you think about diverseslates of candidates?
Like and then pass thetheoretical?
Like can you work in a harderarea in the world?
Try to find talent that's hardto find, okay, check and then
(18:32):
getting it in front of people,et cetera.
Like I could see it beingreally easy to put middle-aged,
paraphrased white guys in frontof most of your clients maybe
younger, right, so that'd be alittle bit easier, but that's
not what you want to do, that'snot what we need you to do, et
cetera.
Like, how hard is it to?
Then I got a slate ofcandidates.
(18:53):
I got three.
They're really good, butthey're all the same.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Now I can put them in front of them, or I can wait
another two weeks or a week, andI could probably have some
diversity there.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
What's yeah, so I send as I get them.
Oh, okay, I don't like to sendin batches.
I like to have a lot of urgencythere and I like to just see
what I do when I do it.
But with that said, yeah, thediverse side, I like to start.
But when I do my search, I dothem a few different ways.
I like to tangent source a lotand I like to make sure that
(19:28):
once I find let's just say onceI find this amazing woman
candidate, that I do a tangenton this profile and find as many
others just as wonderful as sheis and I do that reach out
first.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Oh cool.
What technology, what's?
I ask a recruiter what theirfavorite.
Sourcing technology isdangerous on so many levels, but
you've got a favorite for rightnow.
So what's your favorite rightnow?
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Yeah, so I'm still an old school LinkedIn recruiter
girl.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
I love that.
I think there's just so manygreat ways to do that, but I
will say that, as far as pairingit with Covey getCoveycom,
covey Scout is like bonkers.
It is AI and normally anythingthat messes with my sourcing.
I'm like get out of here.
I can do this, I can do better,but it's the brain of a
(20:17):
recruiter.
I'm doing a search right nowwhere it asks you to put in all
of the different categories, thedifferent industries, company
sizes, scale, for example,someone who's managed B2C
companies, but please rejectGoogle or Microsoft.
Wow, you can say that stuff tothis bot instead of Googling it
(20:37):
all and finding out differentBoolean ways to do it.
It's freaking cool, so that'smy favorite.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Right, I love that.
I love that.
I've always seen it being useda couple of times, but I love
just the premise.
By the way, I just love thepremise of how it is.
And again, LinkedIn Recruiter.
Everyone complains aboutLinkedIn Recruiter, especially
on the corporate side.
They complain about LinkedInRecruiter, yet everyone has
licenses.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
I know.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
This is the craziest thing in the world to me.
I'm like if you complain aboutit, you should probably stop
using it.
I don't know, I'm just gonnathrow it out there.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
That is funny.
But I will say I know I hearpeople knock on it all the time
but Always.
But it's good yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Especially for specific types of talent.
If you're trying to gettruckers in Arkansas, okay,
maybe LinkedIn Recruiter's notthe way, got it Fair enough.
But outside of that, and maybeeven some of the nuanced talent
that you go after, maybe a StackOverflow or GitHub or some
other types of communities mightbe a better.
But still, by and large, again,I think it's super.
(21:38):
I think it's more helpful thanit gets credit.
I think it's a lot.
I think so too.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
It moves and grooves and if I'm gonna go off LinkedIn
like fully off LinkedIn I don'tknow if you've seen this yet,
but Better Leap is really coolso, for example, if I want to
get people off of Stack andGitHub and stuff like Better
Leap sources off of it.
It sources all over the place.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Oh, that's cool.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
So that's really cool too.
It's newer so.
I want heavier searchcapabilities.
But yeah, it's definitely coolto search off LinkedIn because
you feel I think you feel likejustifying oh, I really found
this person.
I don't think it matters whereyou find them, that's your
problem?
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Not at all.
That's the thing is no onereally they'll ask.
Somebody will at one point careabout source of hire, but by
and large, most executivescouldn't spell source of hire if
you gave them the letters.
They don't care, they just wantthe person to take an interview
and then make sure they make agood hire.
That's all they care.
I wanted to go back to.
(22:33):
Something you mentioned at thevery beginning is sustainability
, because we don't talk about itenough.
So what's your current take onsustainability in recruiting?
Speaker 3 (22:42):
Oh, I love this subject so much.
Again, this goes back to thebusiness Like you can't have
sustainability if your recruiteror head of town or whoever you
have, isn't at the seat of thetable.
I don't think that they askthose hard questions.
I think you really could buildsuch a great forecast.
(23:02):
You could talk about ROI, everysingle person that you have,
and how long it takes for themto ramp up.
If you want to bring learningdevelopment to this, how much
faster you could do things.
I think everyone wants thingsdone quickly.
And then they're like oh wait,what about this?
Oh wait, what about this?
And again it goes back to whatI said in the beginning, where
it's like hiring more peopledoesn't mean you got the job
(23:25):
done faster or better.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
That's right.
It's when you're talking.
It reminds me of IBM used tohave this project management
strategy where they would thinkabout the product for a third of
the product so let's say it's athree month project.
For a third of that, for 30days they just think it planned
and make sure they reallythought about all the things
(23:47):
that are tied together.
Then for a third of that,they'd work the plan and go do
the project and then on the backthird they would revisit what
they thought of and what theydid and where they need to make
changes in the future.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Well, I thought.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Isn't it genius?
Speaker 3 (24:05):
Wait, why did they get rid of it?
You said they got rid of it.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
I don't know if they got rid of it, but I just I love
the idea of you give yourselfsome time to think on the front
end about what could happen,what needs to happen, and then
you learn which is the truelearning which, again, in both
HR and TA, we don't giveourselves enough time to learn.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Just in general, just hard stop.
But even when it's about aparticular search, like we go
through it.
We run through it fast, done,completion, and it's more on to
the next thing.
It's pause and breathe.
And then what did you learn?
How could you institutionalizethat learning and how could you
share that with other people onyour team, et cetera.
(24:46):
So yeah, Brian, I could talk toyou all day.
And left unchecked, I will.
You got like a job and stufflike that.
So thank you so much for comingon the podcast.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
Yeah, thank you.
I love the questions.
I love where you're going.
It's very thoughtful.
Recruited in TA.
I like it.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
There you go, and thanks again for coming on and
thanks for everyone listening,until next time.
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