September 1, 2023 • 22 mins
Are you ready to shatter the stigma around mental health? Strap in as we journey into the arena of mental health with our esteemed guest, Matthew Chow, a psychiatrist and the Chief Mental Health Officer at Tellus Health. Our conversation centers around their innovative product, Total Mental Health. It's specially designed to combat the rising tide of mental health challenges in the wake of the pandemic. We delve deep into the disquieting statistics like 22% of US workers harboring a high mental health risk and the persistent, stubborn levels of elevated mental health risks post-pandemic. Listen as we unpack the cascading effects of these challenges on productivity and the unique struggles faced by working parents.
We also examine the critical need to normalize seeking assistance in regards to mental health. In our bid to shed light on employer's role in mental well-being, Matthew shares insights on how organizational support can accelerate the journey back to health for employees. Dive into the intricate discourse on privacy concerns and how Tellus Health ensures a secure environment for individuals to report mental health issues fearlessly. Tune in to understand how Total Mental Health by Tellus Health is bridging the gaping chasm in mental health support and helping individuals reclaim their health.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is William Tincap and you are listening to
the Use Case Podcast.
Today we have Matthew on andhe's from Tellus, but we're
going to be talking about aproduct or an offering that they
have now called Total MentalHealth by Tellus.
We'll learn all about thattoday.
Matthew, would you do us afavor and introduce both
yourself and Tellus, or what youdo at Tellus, and we'll talk a
(00:22):
little bit about the TotalMental Health product.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
It's fantastic to be with you today.
So my name is Matt, I am apsychiatrist, so a medical
specialist in mental health, andI'm the chief mental health
officer of Tellus Health.
We are one of the largesthealthcare companies in the
world and, in fact, we're thelargest global employee
(00:47):
assistance program provider inthe world, proudly having a
footprint in the US since 1987,covering the lives of some 15
and a half million people and3,400 clients and counting, and
today I'm proud to talk a littlebit more about our recent
launch of Total Mental Health inthe US.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Tellus.
I'm familiar with Tellus' brandbecause of, I think, insurance
that I've had in the past.
Had you always in the AP, soI'm familiar with the brand.
But I'm sure people it's abrand that sticks with you, so
I'm sure most people haveinteracted with it in some form
in their career or in some place.
Tell us a little bit about howTotal Mental Health kind of came
to be, how the product came tobe.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Yeah, so we recognized that there were some
gaps in the mental health andbeing and employee assistance
program spaces in the US.
Certainly, coming out of thepandemic, what we saw is that
there has been just an explosionof mental health difficulties
that people are experiencing and, in fact, the mental health
(01:52):
index that we publish on aregular basis shows that around
22% of workers in the US have ahigh mental health risk, 42%
have a moderate mental healthrisk, and these are persistently
elevated levels that havestubbornly stayed high since the
pandemic.
And so we recognize thatclearly what was out there in
(02:13):
the market, clearly the servicesand supports that people are
receiving are not enough andthat there was a space to get in
there and to help folks out,and that was the genesis of
Total Mental Health.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
So the difficulties, let's say post pandemic, as if
we're totally out of it.
Anyway, outside of the 2000,2020 and 21 version of COVID,
what are the difficulties?
That kind of sprung to life ormaybe some of the things that
pre-pandemic weren't as visibleand then after the pandemic,
(02:46):
well, that became obviously morevisible.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Yeah, there's a couple of areas I can certainly
comment with respect to thatMental health negatively
impacting people's workproductivity.
So one in five workers arecurrently reporting that their
mental health personally isnegatively impacting their
productivity at work, and 48% ofworkers in the management of
(03:11):
companies and enterprises sectorjust as an example of one
specific sector are reportingthat mental health is having a
negative impact on productivity29% in the technology sector,
28% in the utilities,construction and administrative
support services and these againare all elevated off of their
baseline from before thepandemic.
(03:31):
And then we're also seeingemployees with kids having a
lower mental health scorecompared to employees without
children.
So we speculate about theimpact of the pandemic and the
conditions of the pandemicschool closures and such on
employees with families, andthen just other factors in terms
of substance use, peoplerelying on maladaptive coping
(03:53):
strategies those are allelevated and continue to be
elevated since what I could callthe crisis phase of the
pandemic.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
One of the things I wanted to ask you about is as
people become, I guess, a bitmore vocal or the mental health
that they're doing with it isless taboo, right?
So, like pre-COVID, way beforeCOVID, I was diagnosed with a
form of what we used to callmanic depressive, but I guess
it's bipolar now, but it'scalled hypomania.
It's like a form of where I'min mania a whole lot, but when
(04:27):
I'm not in mania I'm in reallydark depression like suicide or
suicidal thoughts, et cetera.
And pre-pandemic I probablywouldn't have talked too much
about it, I wouldn't have talkedon a podcast about it, but
during the pandemic and postpandemic it's just been easier
to talk with because otherpeople would talk about things,
other people would talk aboutwhat they're going through.
(04:47):
And I wanted to ask you thequestion about reporting.
So the baselines that we havepre-pandemic and in
post-pandemic, how do you factorin or, as a professional, as
you deal with this, how do youlook at, like people's openness
and willingness to talk moreopenly about difficulties that
(05:07):
they're having, versus maybe atime where they wouldn't have
shared as much?
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Yeah, I'm so glad you raised this because, as a
mental health professional, itis incredibly.
It fills me with hope to see somany people actually talking
about their mental health andrealizing that there is no
health without mental health,and it seems like such a like a
simple thing to say.
(05:33):
But for the longest time, itwas actually tremendously
difficult as you elaborated onyourself to talk about mental
health, to disclose mentalhealth conditions, especially to
your employer, even to people'sown families, and so there was
a tremendous stress and pressureon people to keep a lid on
mental health and well-beingissues, even though we know now
that these have such atremendous impact on people.
(05:55):
Now, certainly, a part of whatwe're seeing these elevated
mental health risks, theseelevated patterns of mental
health conditions and distresssome of that can be attributed
to the fact that people are justmore willing to talk about it
and report it.
Absolutely, I think that's apart of that trend, but I think
there's also a part of thistrend that is due to the
(06:20):
pandemic conditions and theresponse of the pandemic.
That goes beyond simplyincreased reporting by people.
In other words, it's quote,unquote, it's real and certainly
when you look at really harddata on things like substance
use, for example.
Right, because substance use wecan measure that.
(06:40):
We can measure how much alcoholpeople are using, we can
measure how much drugs peopleare using, how much people are
buying, how much they'reconsuming, and all of those show
trends that are elevatedcompared to their pre-pandemic
baseline or norms.
And this is more than justreporting.
People are clearly turning tothese substances, both legal and
(07:02):
illicit, to help cope with thedistress they're experiencing.
And all of that leads back totell us health and total mental
health.
And why we're doing this isthat we're clearly seeing
something that is impacting theworkforce.
Clearly there's a gap here andwe want to address that gap by
offering something novel whichis comprehensive mental health
(07:25):
support, personalized mentalhealth support, so that people
can get back to their bestpossible selves, and certainly
that would.
That will impact them at workand improve their productivity,
but even more than that, it justit restores them to health and
it restores them to theircommunities and to their
families and to their loved ones, which is also tremendously
(07:46):
important.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
The self-reporting part of that is probably still a
barrier for a lot of folks forsome reason, especially with the
EAP or health insurance alsobeing managed by HR.
It'd be different, I think, ifthese things weren't managed by
the same group of people.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
CB.
All right, we hear about thoseconcerns, and something that
TELUS has done all along Again,we have a pretty long track
record, decades of experience inthis area is we really think
carefully about the privacy ofpeople's information and we
treat it with the utmost respect, and that extends to the need
for people that are reportingmental health issues to have
(08:26):
privacy, so that information isnot shared beyond the people
that absolutely need to know.
And those people that need toknow would be care providers,
care practitioners, healthcareprofessionals that are working
with them, people that might beinvolved in the immediate
management of that care journey.
But that's where it stops, andso something that stands out
(08:47):
about our program is that wemake sure that, for example,
when we help out our clientswith data around, let's say, the
use of mental health resources,with understanding the mental
health of their workforce, we'resharing that in aggregate.
We're not sharing the personalhealthcare and sensitive
healthcare information ofindividual employees.
What we're sharing is aggregatedata that is actionable by an
(09:10):
employer, actionable by a client, but that ultimately protects
the privacy of those individualsand that creates the confidence
for people to actually reportthat they're having some
difficulty and they need help.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
It's funny because, like my brothers and I were so
different and we all have sameDNA, but one of my brothers just
doesn't believe in therapy,like at all, like conceptually
or otherwise, just doesn'tbelieve in it.
And I do.
I think therapy should bemandatory.
So I'm on the other end of thespectrum, if you will.
So how does an EAP can only doso much?
(09:47):
And I get that being there whensomeone needs you and being
available, being easy to findand obviously I love that you
already touched onpersonalization, because I was
going to ask you about thatanyhow but what do you do in the
instance, especially for theemployers that are listening,
what do you do where someonejust won't they just won't seek
help.
They won't seek professionalhelp for some reason?
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Yeah, and certainly I want to reinforce that.
Having that service available,giving people the confidence
that when they reach out forhelp, that they're going to
receive help, that they're goingto have somebody that's capable
and professional that's goingto help them, is such a critical
part of it.
But what you're alluding to isthat you also have to create a
culture within the organizationthat it's okay to reach out,
(10:32):
it's okay to talk about mentalhealth, and that's something
that needs to happen across theorganization and it needs to
happen in the leadership as well.
I've worked in organizationswhere that wasn't handled very
well and so people clammed up.
People didn't want to talkabout mental health issues or
they would seek help separately.
And then I've worked at placeslike at Tellis, where we openly
(10:54):
talk about mental health issues.
We have leaders that talk abouthaving had therapy themselves,
having had treatment themselves,having benefited from help
themselves, and when you hearyour leaders actually talk so
openly, it creates permissionfor everyone across the
organization to get help.
So I 'd actually say it's aone-two punch.
(11:14):
It's around having the serviceavailable and making sure that
the company is thoughtful aboutsecuring the right kind of help
and services for their workforce, and then it's about the
culture, making sure the cultureis in place so that it's I'll
use a buzzword herepsychologically safe for people
(11:35):
to actually talk about theseissues and then to get help.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
It's fascinating to me because once you get over to
the first hurdle which I thinkis easier these days with folks
100%.
When I think back to med school.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
It was just even, and I'd like to think I haven't
been in practice that long,though it's interesting to see
my medical students and traineesnow actually entering into
leadership roles themselves.
But when I was in medicine,mental health was still taboo.
Substance use especially likestill taboo, like nobody wanted
to talk about substance, right,that was the thing that you hit
(12:11):
under the table.
The families didn't talk about.
There's Uncle Bob who has anissue, or Sally left the company
suddenly and you don't know why, and there's performance
management issues and a lot oftimes it's actually around
substances.
Now we actually talk about itmore.
We still got some learning todo.
We still got some culturalissues to overcome as a society
(12:32):
and within our companies andworkforces, but we're certainly
making some progress on thatfront.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
How do you do you delineate between therapy and
things that are more brainchemistry related?
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Yeah, so the beauty of something like total mental
health is that we make sure thatpersonalized journey is
appropriate to whatever problempeople have, and so sometimes, a
lot of times, what people needis counseling, what people need
is therapy, and so we helpconnect people to therapy.
But other times we recognizethat people need other types of
(13:06):
services.
They might need anti-depressantmedication, for example, if
they have a severe depression.
They might need some medicationto help them with anxiety, if
the anxiety is overwhelming andcrippling them both at work and
at home, and our navigators andadvisors will help connect
people to the appropriateservices so that, no matter what
(13:27):
their mental health and beingchallenge is, they're going to
get the right kind of support.
We don't force people to committo a particular path,
regardless of what their problemis.
What we do is listen to whatpeople's needs are and then help
them get to the right supportsand services, and in our case,
we're very strong on our network, our global network.
(13:50):
We've got one of the largestglobal networks of health
professionals in the world,actually, and we have a
particular strength incounseling and therapy support
for people.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Oh that's cool, I can see, especially the first time
someone calls or reaches out,whatever, then it becomes a game
of finding out.
Because you mentioned saidwhat's said, and of course I'm
thinking about what's not saidit assumes that the person knows
what's wrong with them, right,and in my own case I had no idea
(14:20):
.
It's all brain chemistry.
It wasn't therapy related, itwas just hostess, undiagnosed
for a long time.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Which is not an unusual story Even in the 21st
century.
Even as much as science aroundmental health has advanced, for
a lot of people what you'reshared about yourself and I
really appreciate you actuallybeing open about that is still
pretty common these days.
It's a journey.
It's a journey to figure outwhat's going on.
It's a journey to get help.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
What I found with my situation is my wife had to be
the history.
She's the one that had to bewith me on that not had to, but
was on the journey with me.
So she actually took notes,especially once we got into
medication and I was tryingdifferent things, different
combinations of things.
She's the one that actually hadto talk to my doctor because I
couldn't remember.
So it was for anybody thatlistening to this, you're going
(15:15):
through something like that,obviously seeking professional
help, check.
But I love the way that youbring people in.
It's personalized, listen tothem, and then do you have a
diagnostic that you take peoplethrough, or do you have a rubric
that you can kind of wave, findthem into the right kind of
situation?
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Yeah, so when people journey through total mental
health and I like to describe itas a journey they're going to
get a dedicated care coordinator, and you could also think of
them as an advisor or anavigator or a coach that helps
you along that journey.
They're going to assess thedifficulty, they're going to see
what services would make themost sense in your situation and
(15:56):
then here's the most criticalpart they're going to be with
you as you go along this journeyto help make sure that you get
to the right place.
And that is so importantbecause, especially when we're
vulnerable, especially when weare being affected by mental
health challenges, it's reallyhard to keep things straight.
(16:16):
It's really hard to rememberall these different appointments
, it's really hard to rememberall the different historical
details.
Having that dedicated personthere to journey alongside you,
to keep things on track, to keeptaking your feedback, to make
sure that you're getting to theright place, that is so
important.
And we put that there in placebecause, as an experienced
(16:38):
company that provides theseservices, we've had a wealth of
feedback from people, and thisis something that is important
to folks.
It's supported by the scienceand it's supported by the care
journeys of so many millions ofpeople that have been through
our services.
Q.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Do you think with folks that haven't taken, they
haven't worked with the AP andthey haven't worked with TELUS,
or they haven't worked with aspecific product like Total
Mental Health?
Do you think there's a stigmathat still out there, that
therapies it's never ending?
The end point is or the journeymight not ever be, you might
(17:15):
never ever reach the destination.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
So, if that makes sense, yeah, I've certainly
heard that concern, andsomething that's important about
this journey someone'spersonalized mental health and
being journeyed through ourprogram is that it has a
beginning and it also has, forthe most part, a natural end.
We don't want people to be intherapy forever, just like we
(17:37):
don't want anyone to besuffering from symptoms and
concerns forever.
And this is not a license tohave an open-ended, never-ending
journey, because that's notappropriate either.
We really are in the businessof helping people and supporting
people so that they can getback to their best possible
lives, so that employers canhave a healthy workforce, and
(18:00):
that means that these journeyshave a natural beginning and end
.
And sometimes and this is notunusual in mental health
sometimes people's journeys havemultiple steps.
People have an issue, they gethelp, they recover and then
maybe a new stressor shows up intheir lives, a new situation
shows up later on, and then theyhave either a recurrence of the
(18:23):
same problem or a new problemand then they get some help
again, and we want to normalizethat for people.
We want to make sure peopleunderstand that's okay and
that's common.
But, yeah, we're not in thebusiness of having people be in
therapy forever, because that'snot appropriate and it's not
necessary.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
I love that.
I love that because I was goingto ask you about suffering and
silence.
We don't want that either, soyou don't want one in terms of
feeling like you're going to bein therapy forever Okay, check
but you also don't want tosuffer, especially in silence
forever.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Exactly, yeah, and I find and I'm someone that's
actually benefited from therapymyself as well I feel
comfortable sharing with youthat I've experienced
professional burnout and mentalhealth challenges and I've
really benefited from therapy,and so that was a journey for me
that had a beginning and an end, and my only regret that can
express from that journey is notseeking help sooner Feeling ah,
(19:21):
is this severe enough?
Is it worth the therapist'stime?
Is it worth the doctor's time?
And now I'm kicking myselfthinking why did I even think
that?
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Of course it's worth their time right?
Speaker 2 (19:31):
If I had a broken leg or diabetes or cancer.
I wouldn't question whether itwas worth the health
professional's time, but I thinkit's the last frontier.
Mental health and substance usethere's still sometimes that
feeling like, ah, is this severeenough and is it worthwhile to
get help?
I'm here to say yes, it is.
You are worth it Get out thereand get that help.
(19:51):
And to the employers out thereis make sure that help is
available to people.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Yeah, again, getting them back to their best version
of themselves.
The faster that we can do that,the faster they can get back to
productivity and feeling better.
This is where interests arealigned.
You, as an employer, you wantthem to be the best version of
themselves, because you want toreap the benefits of that
productivity, et cetera but youalso want them to be living a
(20:16):
healthy life and enjoying life100%.
Everybody's interest is aligned.
Go ahead.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
It's a true win scenario, right, and it's
becoming more of an imperative.
Let's go looking beyond themental health statistics.
There's just the fact thatright now it's a tight labor
market.
People have options and thesedays people are looking beyond
monetary compensation andthey're also looking at how does
my employer align with myvalues?
How does my employer help mewhen I'm feeling vulnerable?
(20:43):
What supports are they bringingto the table?
And in a competitiveenvironment for talented people,
having the right supports forpeople highlights that an
employer's values and thepotential employee's values are
in alignment.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
It's interesting because, as you were saying, I
was thinking about howrecruiters can sell this, how
they can basically make surethat candidates know that this
is available to them.
So, having a betterunderstanding of their EAP, but
also having a betterunderstanding of tell us, in
particular, in total, mentalhealth, because it's questions
that candidates ask before they.
(21:19):
It's questions that they hey,how open are you about mental
health?
Like, that's a questionprobably six out of 10
recruiters get on a daily basis.
So it's didn't be able to pointto something specific and say,
hey, listen, not only do we haveit covered, we've got a great
program and this is what it does.
This will help you accept 100percent?
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Huh, because it's a concrete demonstration of those
values yeah.
Because we talked about cultureearlier.
Culture is important, of course, but beyond the talk, you also
got to walk the walk.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
One point Exactly Right, and having a program in
place demonstrates to folks thatyou're not just talking about
mental health and being, you'reactually acting on mental health
and well-being.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Love it.
Drops mic, walks off stage.
Matt, thank you so much forcarving out time.
I know you're crazy busy.
I appreciate you coming in andtalking to the audience about
TELUS in general, but alsospecifically the total mental
health product that you have.
It's been a pleasure Absolutely, and thanks everyone for
listening Until next time.
This is William Tincap and you are listening to
the Use Case Podcast.
Today we have Matthew on andhe's from Tellus, but we're
going to be talking about aproduct or an offering that they
have now called Total MentalHealth by Tellus.
We'll learn all about thattoday.
Matthew, would you do us afavor and introduce both
yourself and Tellus, or what youdo at Tellus, and we'll talk a
(00:22):
little bit about the TotalMental Health product.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
It's fantastic to be with you today.
So my name is Matt, I am apsychiatrist, so a medical
specialist in mental health, andI'm the chief mental health
officer of Tellus Health.
We are one of the largesthealthcare companies in the
world and, in fact, we're thelargest global employee
(00:47):
assistance program provider inthe world, proudly having a
footprint in the US since 1987,covering the lives of some 15
and a half million people and3,400 clients and counting, and
today I'm proud to talk a littlebit more about our recent
launch of Total Mental Health inthe US.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Tellus.
I'm familiar with Tellus' brandbecause of, I think, insurance
that I've had in the past.
Had you always in the AP, soI'm familiar with the brand.
But I'm sure people it's abrand that sticks with you, so
I'm sure most people haveinteracted with it in some form
in their career or in some place.
Tell us a little bit about howTotal Mental Health kind of came
to be, how the product came tobe.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Yeah, so we recognized that there were some
gaps in the mental health andbeing and employee assistance
program spaces in the US.
Certainly, coming out of thepandemic, what we saw is that
there has been just an explosionof mental health difficulties
that people are experiencing and, in fact, the mental health
(01:52):
index that we publish on aregular basis shows that around
22% of workers in the US have ahigh mental health risk, 42%
have a moderate mental healthrisk, and these are persistently
elevated levels that havestubbornly stayed high since the
pandemic.
And so we recognize thatclearly what was out there in
(02:13):
the market, clearly the servicesand supports that people are
receiving are not enough andthat there was a space to get in
there and to help folks out,and that was the genesis of
Total Mental Health.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
So the difficulties, let's say post pandemic, as if
we're totally out of it.
Anyway, outside of the 2000,2020 and 21 version of COVID,
what are the difficulties?
That kind of sprung to life ormaybe some of the things that
pre-pandemic weren't as visibleand then after the pandemic,
(02:46):
well, that became obviously morevisible.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Yeah, there's a couple of areas I can certainly
comment with respect to thatMental health negatively
impacting people's workproductivity.
So one in five workers arecurrently reporting that their
mental health personally isnegatively impacting their
productivity at work, and 48% ofworkers in the management of
(03:11):
companies and enterprises sectorjust as an example of one
specific sector are reportingthat mental health is having a
negative impact on productivity29% in the technology sector,
28% in the utilities,construction and administrative
support services and these againare all elevated off of their
baseline from before thepandemic.
(03:31):
And then we're also seeingemployees with kids having a
lower mental health scorecompared to employees without
children.
So we speculate about theimpact of the pandemic and the
conditions of the pandemicschool closures and such on
employees with families, andthen just other factors in terms
of substance use, peoplerelying on maladaptive coping
(03:53):
strategies those are allelevated and continue to be
elevated since what I could callthe crisis phase of the
pandemic.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
One of the things I wanted to ask you about is as
people become, I guess, a bitmore vocal or the mental health
that they're doing with it isless taboo, right?
So, like pre-COVID, way beforeCOVID, I was diagnosed with a
form of what we used to callmanic depressive, but I guess
it's bipolar now, but it'scalled hypomania.
It's like a form of where I'min mania a whole lot, but when
(04:27):
I'm not in mania I'm in reallydark depression like suicide or
suicidal thoughts, et cetera.
And pre-pandemic I probablywouldn't have talked too much
about it, I wouldn't have talkedon a podcast about it, but
during the pandemic and postpandemic it's just been easier
to talk with because otherpeople would talk about things,
other people would talk aboutwhat they're going through.
(04:47):
And I wanted to ask you thequestion about reporting.
So the baselines that we havepre-pandemic and in
post-pandemic, how do you factorin or, as a professional, as
you deal with this, how do youlook at, like people's openness
and willingness to talk moreopenly about difficulties that
(05:07):
they're having, versus maybe atime where they wouldn't have
shared as much?
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Yeah, I'm so glad you raised this because, as a
mental health professional, itis incredibly.
It fills me with hope to see somany people actually talking
about their mental health andrealizing that there is no
health without mental health,and it seems like such a like a
simple thing to say.
(05:33):
But for the longest time, itwas actually tremendously
difficult as you elaborated onyourself to talk about mental
health, to disclose mentalhealth conditions, especially to
your employer, even to people'sown families, and so there was
a tremendous stress and pressureon people to keep a lid on
mental health and well-beingissues, even though we know now
that these have such atremendous impact on people.
(05:55):
Now, certainly, a part of whatwe're seeing these elevated
mental health risks, theseelevated patterns of mental
health conditions and distresssome of that can be attributed
to the fact that people are justmore willing to talk about it
and report it.
Absolutely, I think that's apart of that trend, but I think
there's also a part of thistrend that is due to the
(06:20):
pandemic conditions and theresponse of the pandemic.
That goes beyond simplyincreased reporting by people.
In other words, it's quote,unquote, it's real and certainly
when you look at really harddata on things like substance
use, for example.
Right, because substance use wecan measure that.
(06:40):
We can measure how much alcoholpeople are using, we can
measure how much drugs peopleare using, how much people are
buying, how much they'reconsuming, and all of those show
trends that are elevatedcompared to their pre-pandemic
baseline or norms.
And this is more than justreporting.
People are clearly turning tothese substances, both legal and
(07:02):
illicit, to help cope with thedistress they're experiencing.
And all of that leads back totell us health and total mental
health.
And why we're doing this isthat we're clearly seeing
something that is impacting theworkforce.
Clearly there's a gap here andwe want to address that gap by
offering something novel whichis comprehensive mental health
(07:25):
support, personalized mentalhealth support, so that people
can get back to their bestpossible selves, and certainly
that would.
That will impact them at workand improve their productivity,
but even more than that, it justit restores them to health and
it restores them to theircommunities and to their
families and to their loved ones, which is also tremendously
(07:46):
important.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
The self-reporting part of that is probably still a
barrier for a lot of folks forsome reason, especially with the
EAP or health insurance alsobeing managed by HR.
It'd be different, I think, ifthese things weren't managed by
the same group of people.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
CB.
All right, we hear about thoseconcerns, and something that
TELUS has done all along Again,we have a pretty long track
record, decades of experience inthis area is we really think
carefully about the privacy ofpeople's information and we
treat it with the utmost respect, and that extends to the need
for people that are reportingmental health issues to have
(08:26):
privacy, so that information isnot shared beyond the people
that absolutely need to know.
And those people that need toknow would be care providers,
care practitioners, healthcareprofessionals that are working
with them, people that might beinvolved in the immediate
management of that care journey.
But that's where it stops, andso something that stands out
(08:47):
about our program is that wemake sure that, for example,
when we help out our clientswith data around, let's say, the
use of mental health resources,with understanding the mental
health of their workforce, we'resharing that in aggregate.
We're not sharing the personalhealthcare and sensitive
healthcare information ofindividual employees.
What we're sharing is aggregatedata that is actionable by an
(09:10):
employer, actionable by a client, but that ultimately protects
the privacy of those individualsand that creates the confidence
for people to actually reportthat they're having some
difficulty and they need help.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
It's funny because, like my brothers and I were so
different and we all have sameDNA, but one of my brothers just
doesn't believe in therapy,like at all, like conceptually
or otherwise, just doesn'tbelieve in it.
And I do.
I think therapy should bemandatory.
So I'm on the other end of thespectrum, if you will.
So how does an EAP can only doso much?
(09:47):
And I get that being there whensomeone needs you and being
available, being easy to findand obviously I love that you
already touched onpersonalization, because I was
going to ask you about thatanyhow but what do you do in the
instance, especially for theemployers that are listening,
what do you do where someonejust won't they just won't seek
help.
They won't seek professionalhelp for some reason?
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Yeah, and certainly I want to reinforce that.
Having that service available,giving people the confidence
that when they reach out forhelp, that they're going to
receive help, that they're goingto have somebody that's capable
and professional that's goingto help them, is such a critical
part of it.
But what you're alluding to isthat you also have to create a
culture within the organizationthat it's okay to reach out,
(10:32):
it's okay to talk about mentalhealth, and that's something
that needs to happen across theorganization and it needs to
happen in the leadership as well.
I've worked in organizationswhere that wasn't handled very
well and so people clammed up.
People didn't want to talkabout mental health issues or
they would seek help separately.
And then I've worked at placeslike at Tellis, where we openly
(10:54):
talk about mental health issues.
We have leaders that talk abouthaving had therapy themselves,
having had treatment themselves,having benefited from help
themselves, and when you hearyour leaders actually talk so
openly, it creates permissionfor everyone across the
organization to get help.
So I 'd actually say it's aone-two punch.
(11:14):
It's around having the serviceavailable and making sure that
the company is thoughtful aboutsecuring the right kind of help
and services for their workforce, and then it's about the
culture, making sure the cultureis in place so that it's I'll
use a buzzword herepsychologically safe for people
(11:35):
to actually talk about theseissues and then to get help.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
It's fascinating to me because once you get over to
the first hurdle which I thinkis easier these days with folks
100%.
When I think back to med school.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
It was just even, and I'd like to think I haven't
been in practice that long,though it's interesting to see
my medical students and traineesnow actually entering into
leadership roles themselves.
But when I was in medicine,mental health was still taboo.
Substance use especially likestill taboo, like nobody wanted
to talk about substance, right,that was the thing that you hit
(12:11):
under the table.
The families didn't talk about.
There's Uncle Bob who has anissue, or Sally left the company
suddenly and you don't know why, and there's performance
management issues and a lot oftimes it's actually around
substances.
Now we actually talk about itmore.
We still got some learning todo.
We still got some culturalissues to overcome as a society
(12:32):
and within our companies andworkforces, but we're certainly
making some progress on thatfront.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
How do you do you delineate between therapy and
things that are more brainchemistry related?
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Yeah, so the beauty of something like total mental
health is that we make sure thatpersonalized journey is
appropriate to whatever problempeople have, and so sometimes, a
lot of times, what people needis counseling, what people need
is therapy, and so we helpconnect people to therapy.
But other times we recognizethat people need other types of
(13:06):
services.
They might need anti-depressantmedication, for example, if
they have a severe depression.
They might need some medicationto help them with anxiety, if
the anxiety is overwhelming andcrippling them both at work and
at home, and our navigators andadvisors will help connect
people to the appropriateservices so that, no matter what
(13:27):
their mental health and beingchallenge is, they're going to
get the right kind of support.
We don't force people to committo a particular path,
regardless of what their problemis.
What we do is listen to whatpeople's needs are and then help
them get to the right supportsand services, and in our case,
we're very strong on our network, our global network.
(13:50):
We've got one of the largestglobal networks of health
professionals in the world,actually, and we have a
particular strength incounseling and therapy support
for people.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Oh that's cool, I can see, especially the first time
someone calls or reaches out,whatever, then it becomes a game
of finding out.
Because you mentioned saidwhat's said, and of course I'm
thinking about what's not saidit assumes that the person knows
what's wrong with them, right,and in my own case I had no idea
(14:20):
.
It's all brain chemistry.
It wasn't therapy related, itwas just hostess, undiagnosed
for a long time.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Which is not an unusual story Even in the 21st
century.
Even as much as science aroundmental health has advanced, for
a lot of people what you'reshared about yourself and I
really appreciate you actuallybeing open about that is still
pretty common these days.
It's a journey.
It's a journey to figure outwhat's going on.
It's a journey to get help.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
What I found with my situation is my wife had to be
the history.
She's the one that had to bewith me on that not had to, but
was on the journey with me.
So she actually took notes,especially once we got into
medication and I was tryingdifferent things, different
combinations of things.
She's the one that actually hadto talk to my doctor because I
couldn't remember.
So it was for anybody thatlistening to this, you're going
(15:15):
through something like that,obviously seeking professional
help, check.
But I love the way that youbring people in.
It's personalized, listen tothem, and then do you have a
diagnostic that you take peoplethrough, or do you have a rubric
that you can kind of wave, findthem into the right kind of
situation?
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Yeah, so when people journey through total mental
health and I like to describe itas a journey they're going to
get a dedicated care coordinator, and you could also think of
them as an advisor or anavigator or a coach that helps
you along that journey.
They're going to assess thedifficulty, they're going to see
what services would make themost sense in your situation and
(15:56):
then here's the most criticalpart they're going to be with
you as you go along this journeyto help make sure that you get
to the right place.
And that is so importantbecause, especially when we're
vulnerable, especially when weare being affected by mental
health challenges, it's reallyhard to keep things straight.
(16:16):
It's really hard to rememberall these different appointments
, it's really hard to rememberall the different historical
details.
Having that dedicated personthere to journey alongside you,
to keep things on track, to keeptaking your feedback, to make
sure that you're getting to theright place, that is so
important.
And we put that there in placebecause, as an experienced
(16:38):
company that provides theseservices, we've had a wealth of
feedback from people, and thisis something that is important
to folks.
It's supported by the scienceand it's supported by the care
journeys of so many millions ofpeople that have been through
our services.
Q.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Do you think with folks that haven't taken, they
haven't worked with the AP andthey haven't worked with TELUS,
or they haven't worked with aspecific product like Total
Mental Health?
Do you think there's a stigmathat still out there, that
therapies it's never ending?
The end point is or the journeymight not ever be, you might
(17:15):
never ever reach the destination.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
So, if that makes sense, yeah, I've certainly
heard that concern, andsomething that's important about
this journey someone'spersonalized mental health and
being journeyed through ourprogram is that it has a
beginning and it also has, forthe most part, a natural end.
We don't want people to be intherapy forever, just like we
(17:37):
don't want anyone to besuffering from symptoms and
concerns forever.
And this is not a license tohave an open-ended, never-ending
journey, because that's notappropriate either.
We really are in the businessof helping people and supporting
people so that they can getback to their best possible
lives, so that employers canhave a healthy workforce, and
(18:00):
that means that these journeyshave a natural beginning and end
.
And sometimes and this is notunusual in mental health
sometimes people's journeys havemultiple steps.
People have an issue, they gethelp, they recover and then
maybe a new stressor shows up intheir lives, a new situation
shows up later on, and then theyhave either a recurrence of the
(18:23):
same problem or a new problemand then they get some help
again, and we want to normalizethat for people.
We want to make sure peopleunderstand that's okay and
that's common.
But, yeah, we're not in thebusiness of having people be in
therapy forever, because that'snot appropriate and it's not
necessary.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
I love that.
I love that because I was goingto ask you about suffering and
silence.
We don't want that either, soyou don't want one in terms of
feeling like you're going to bein therapy forever Okay, check
but you also don't want tosuffer, especially in silence
forever.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Exactly, yeah, and I find and I'm someone that's
actually benefited from therapymyself as well I feel
comfortable sharing with youthat I've experienced
professional burnout and mentalhealth challenges and I've
really benefited from therapy,and so that was a journey for me
that had a beginning and an end, and my only regret that can
express from that journey is notseeking help sooner Feeling ah,
(19:21):
is this severe enough?
Is it worth the therapist'stime?
Is it worth the doctor's time?
And now I'm kicking myselfthinking why did I even think
that?
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Of course it's worth their time right?
Speaker 2 (19:31):
If I had a broken leg or diabetes or cancer.
I wouldn't question whether itwas worth the health
professional's time, but I thinkit's the last frontier.
Mental health and substance usethere's still sometimes that
feeling like, ah, is this severeenough and is it worthwhile to
get help?
I'm here to say yes, it is.
You are worth it Get out thereand get that help.
(19:51):
And to the employers out thereis make sure that help is
available to people.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Yeah, again, getting them back to their best version
of themselves.
The faster that we can do that,the faster they can get back to
productivity and feeling better.
This is where interests arealigned.
You, as an employer, you wantthem to be the best version of
themselves, because you want toreap the benefits of that
productivity, et cetera but youalso want them to be living a
(20:16):
healthy life and enjoying life100%.
Everybody's interest is aligned.
Go ahead.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
It's a true win scenario, right, and it's
becoming more of an imperative.
Let's go looking beyond themental health statistics.
There's just the fact thatright now it's a tight labor
market.
People have options and thesedays people are looking beyond
monetary compensation andthey're also looking at how does
my employer align with myvalues?
How does my employer help mewhen I'm feeling vulnerable?
(20:43):
What supports are they bringingto the table?
And in a competitiveenvironment for talented people,
having the right supports forpeople highlights that an
employer's values and thepotential employee's values are
in alignment.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
It's interesting because, as you were saying, I
was thinking about howrecruiters can sell this, how
they can basically make surethat candidates know that this
is available to them.
So, having a betterunderstanding of their EAP, but
also having a betterunderstanding of tell us, in
particular, in total, mentalhealth, because it's questions
that candidates ask before they.
(21:19):
It's questions that they hey,how open are you about mental
health?
Like, that's a questionprobably six out of 10
recruiters get on a daily basis.
So it's didn't be able to pointto something specific and say,
hey, listen, not only do we haveit covered, we've got a great
program and this is what it does.
This will help you accept 100percent?
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Huh, because it's a concrete demonstration of those
values yeah.
Because we talked about cultureearlier.
Culture is important, of course, but beyond the talk, you also
got to walk the walk.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
One point Exactly Right, and having a program in
place demonstrates to folks thatyou're not just talking about
mental health and being, you'reactually acting on mental health
and well-being.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Love it.
Drops mic, walks off stage.
Matt, thank you so much forcarving out time.
I know you're crazy busy.
I appreciate you coming in andtalking to the audience about
TELUS in general, but alsospecifically the total mental
health product that you have.
It's been a pleasure Absolutely, and thanks everyone for
listening Until next time.
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