August 5, 2023 • 25 mins
Want to discover a revolutionary technology that could redefine your hiring process? Brace yourself for an enlightening chat with Raj Ananthanpillai, founder and CEO of Trua. We delve into the intricate details of Trua, the game-changing all-in-one digital identity and screening solution. We'll dissect the unique features of this non-regulated solution and how it's transforming background checks and fraud prevention. Be prepared for a fascinating journey as we unravel how this technology harnesses the power of blockchain for privacy and data protection, and the role of the Trua Score, akin to a FICO score, in simplifying the background check process.
And that's just the beginning! We'll also shine a spotlight on how Trua’s cutting-edge tech plays a pivotal role in streamlining recruiting and hiring processes. Gain a deeper understanding of how Trua’s ID verification can result in significant time and cost savings for employers and recruitment agencies. Listen closely as we explain the intelligence behind the Trua Score that provides continuously updated, verified data, revamping the hiring practice. By the end of the episode, you'll have a clear picture of how this transformative technology is shaping the future of background checks, identity verification, and hiring processes. Time to step into the future of recruitment with Trua!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is William Tin Cup and you are listening to the
Use Case Podcast.
Today we have Rajan from Trua.
He will be learning about thebusiness case, the cost-benefit
analysis or the use case for whyhis prospects and customers
pick Trua.
So let's do some introductions.
Raj, would you do us a favorand introduce both yourself and
(00:22):
Trua?
Hey, good morning, William.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
My name is Raj Anand Thanthalai.
I'm the founder and CEO of acompany called Trua.
Trua is an all-in-one digitalidentity and screening solution
company, primarily targeting HR,recruiters, safety and security
in marketplaces and so on andso forth.
We've been around in differentforms of companies.
(00:46):
Trua is a spin-off of anothercompany called Mdera, which was
a spin-off of another companycalled InfoSense.
We've been in that business forover 20 years.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
And are we within the four walls of the US or are we
doing international?
Right now, we are predominantlyin the United States.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Right, and do you?
Oh, go ahead, no, finish yoursentence.
It's like fishing in PacificOcean it's a big market.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Yeah, and if it's more specialized it gets small,
which is great, because then youcan get dominant faster.
Do folks put you in thebackground check, background
screening category, or do theyput you in a different category?
Speaker 2 (01:24):
We are actually a new generation.
If you think about today'sbackground check industry, 99
plus percent is regulated.
That means they have to adhereto FCA rules and FTC and EUC all
kinds of regulations.
We are the very first solutionthat is non-regulated in the
sense that it's an all-in-one,as I said, digital identity and
(01:48):
screening solution, streamlinesbackground checks and fraud
prevention processes for HRdepartments.
The beauty of that is iteliminates Because of the data
is first verified by thecandidate it eliminates dispute
and adverse action process,further reducing regulatory
(02:10):
burden and legal risk forcompanies and HR departments.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
A few questions.
One is I love that you'remanaging risk managing, fraud
managing, Because that's been,it's historically been why we
use background checks in thefirst phase.
So I want to make sure Iunderstand this is pre-hire and
if so, do you ever foresee thisbeing post-hire, meaning
(02:35):
something that goes andcontinues on with employees?
One of the things is funny.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
You should ask because our other company,
endera, has been in thepost-hire workforce risk
management.
We've been around for five plusyears and we've got Fortune 50
companies using our software forpost-hire.
One of the questions that camealong is hey, you guys do it
very well and it's anon-regulated approach.
(03:02):
You have anything for pre-hire?
Because we could not use thatfor pre-hire because the consent
and the review of the data wasnot performed by the individual.
So within that and all thebreaches that was going around
back in 2017, 18 timeframe, westarted putting our heads
together to develop this newplatform called Trua, which
(03:24):
first lets the consumer or theindividual or the applicant
verify the data.
So Trua score, we call it, isalways current, like a FICO
score.
It's always current.
So you don't have to dopost-hire risk or pre-hire, you
don't have to deviate that.
So you start from recruitingall the way to full lifecycle of
the employee or the candidate.
(03:47):
So that's how we do it.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
It sounds I don't know if it is or isn't but it
sounds like something that couldbe done on blockchain, where
again everything is verified,again eliminating the fraud.
But I don't want to go too fardown the rabbit hole if it's not
blockchain now or later.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Absolutely.
It took the world right of mind.
Our technology, our system isbuilt on a blockchain ledger.
We use the security features ofthe blockchain ledger, so
here's what it is right we let.
The Trua primarily is builtwith privacy and data production
by adheres to stringent dataprivacy and consumer protection
laws and regulations.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
And they get to control that, whether or not
they gave access to that or not.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Yep Ensuring the personal information is handled
appropriately and securely.
So the way we approach to dataminimization only the necessary
information is collected inyour", minimizing the risk of
data breaches or identity theft.
It powers the individual toverify it.
That way there is no disputefor HR managers.
(04:49):
So giving them full controlover the level of information
that they want to share.
For example, if you are in thegig economy and for trust and
safety, they're hey, they'relooking for just criminal
information, right, you justshare the criminal information.
You don't need to share anycivil infractions or civil
issues or any other informationthat you have.
(05:11):
But typically what happens in atraditional background check?
You get a 30, 40, 50 pagereport and then the HR
department has to sift throughall of that and it could be a
hot potato because every statehas different regulations.
Think about it right California, new York and all kinds of
regulations.
Hey, if this is a type ofmisdemeanor or a felony, you
(05:34):
cannot use that for any hiring.
If it's more than five yearsold, or 10 years old, depending
on the state, statues and so onand so forth.
So we have taken all of that andcodified and put into the
system which is saying okay, wehave a three-dimensional
decision matrix.
For every event that individualhas, it says, okay, time, type
(05:58):
of event or recency.
And then we map the sentencingguidelines and also the state
statues and federal statues andsay, okay, what does this state
say?
Oh, you can use this.
I'm just using this as anexample.
This person had a shopliftingevent six years ago, right In
(06:18):
certain states you cannot usethat if it's more than two years
old, or two years old,depending on the state.
So we apply all of that, themorass that people have to go
through and say, okay, this isthe curated event that adheres
to all of the state regulationsand laws, and then you can and,
by the way, the consumer hasalready verified it and then you
can use it.
(06:38):
So the hiring becomes fast.
And then say, okay, and the gigeconomy has 60, 65 million
people in the gig shared economy.
They're looking for jobs.
They have change changes everytwo months, three months.
They have to constantly keepgiving this so they could have
this in their wallet ifnecessary.
And then say, hey, I alreadyhave my stuff and here's my
(07:00):
criminal verification, here's myprofessional license
verification if that's whateducation verification and so on
and so forth.
One of the things that we sawwas there are a lot of static
stuff in an individual, likeyour degree, your credentials in
a professional license and soon and so forth.
They are predominantly staticother than for annals or
disbarment and things like that,but predominantly static.
(07:22):
But still, every time you lookfor a job, you do a background
check.
They have to check that overand over again.
Why?
It's a huge nonsense, in myopinion.
Only thing that changes is yourcode tracker.
You could be arrested, youcould have some issues and so on
and so forth.
So we focus on some of thosedata and we call it
(07:43):
deterministic data Means it isfor sure belongs to you.
That is what we always work on.
That's why most of the if youlook at billions of dollars of
legal litigation that's going onis because of these due process
and wrongful attribution ofdata to a certain individual
Right.
We clean that all up.
(08:04):
That's why we got five pluspatents on these things and
we've been doing this for over20 years, just trying to
determine the data that belongsto the individual.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
So a few questions.
Let's start with keeping upwith the data.
Is there certain things thatthe individual that has to keep
up with if they change theircell phone or their address, or
maybe they change their mind ondifferent permissions, et cetera
, and is there certain datathat's just starting to mind
from outside data sources?
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Yeah, it is always current, right, because right up
front we disclose everythingand it's current.
And then when you share thisdata, by the way, none of the
underlying data is ever shared.
That's what is.
We put in a blockchain, all ofthe raw data, so that nobody can
touch it except you as anindividual.
And then what is shared is hey,you don't have like a truascore
(09:00):
.
For those who want to look atthat, it's on our website,
truameacom.
It'll show you hey, this is thescore.
Okay, this says okay, one ormore criminal events if
necessary.
And if you click on it, it'lltell you oh, it was a minor
misdemeanor or whatever.
It is jaywalking, right, youcan make that decision if you
want.
And the individual has turnedthat feature on.
(09:22):
They can turn it off any timeand for every share, okay yeah,
it's not just all in one Everytime they want to share with an
employer or somebody else.
They can do that the first timethey need to be sponsored by
somebody in this case usuallybecause today it's all B2B so
they get sponsored by a companyand then they can take it with
(09:44):
them for the rest of their likesand it's always current and if
they change their phone numberor email or whatever it is,
they're all verified and thenupdated.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Okay, so I think you mentioned safety and if you did,
I wanted to ask you do we keeptrack of accidents or work
claims, et cetera?
Speaker 2 (10:03):
It depends right.
We go with all of thedeterministic data, Got it.
If you're objective, we don'twant to bother with that.
That's why we get social mediadata, because that could be just
garbage.
Most of it is yeah somebodycould be ranting, that doesn't
mean that person is wrong, hasdone something wrong.
So we look for deterministicdata, probabilistic data.
(10:25):
We can get to it, we have it,but that needs a little further
evolution.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Where do we fit in with the recruiter workflow?
So, as they're going throughtheir process, obviously they're
sourcing, they're going to findthe candidates.
Once they find the candidates,then recruiters do their bid,
and I'm assuming this issomewhere in that process.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yeah, one of two things.
Right, as soon as here's thebest part.
Right Because it's a newerproduct that's been in the
market.
The truos could have been inthe market for a little over a
year and the truos ID, we justlaunched, just the ID piece
alone, a month ago.
Right, because when we talkedto the banks they said hey your
identity verification seems tobe very compelling.
(11:08):
The reason why we did that waswhen you are presented with code
record.
It is so intimate.
We want to absolutely make sureyou are who you say you are.
That's why we went through thatprocess.
And then they say, hey, that IDprocess, or ID verification
process, is very compelling andthat gave us an idea to just
separate that out.
So what happens is within theemployer base, the employer
(11:29):
sponsors they say, hey, therecruiter says we got to do plus
customers right now.
But they say, hey, I'm going tohire somebody, go get this
truos code and they go throughthe process and it is shared and
they come on board.
That's one process.
The second process, when theycan advertise, for example, this
is where the future is.
(11:50):
They can advertise that, hey,for this position I need a
bachelor's degree, two years ofexperience and a truos code of
I'm just making this up 325 andabove and that can say if you
want to get your truos code, puta link there and then they get
it.
They get the truos code and theycan be reimbursed for that,
obviously.
And then they submit the scopeIf they know.
(12:13):
If it's not 325, or let's saythis person had a criminal
record 290, they're not going toapply for the job.
And then the recruiters alreadymade it clear they don't have
to deal with this hot potato.
It's, oh my God, because youcannot score ban the box in 32
or 36 states.
You cannot ask the candidate ifyou have a criminal record
(12:36):
until and after you offer them ajob.
Let's assume you pick acandidate, go through the
interview, pick a candidate,spend 8 to 10 weeks in trying to
come to a candidate orcandidates, and then you do a
background check and then that'swhere happens.
And then you have to justify isthis criminal record relevant
to the job?
Right, oh my god, this is somuch burden on HR people, right?
(13:01):
Instead of fun?
You get it done, right?
Hey, you verify and let us know, boom, almost all of them will
self opt out.
Hey, I'm not going to bequalified for this job.
So, what's the price?
Speaker 1 (13:14):
What's the price, Raj ?
What's the pricing model?
Not pricing per se, but I'veseen these kind of priced out in
different ways.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Yep we are trying to standardize that right.
Today, a background check cango from a cheesy internet search
, which is nothing which is ascam, actually, in my opinion to
a real good close to $200sometimes, depending on what you
want to check.
You want to check driver'srecords, mbr, professional
licenses, all kinds of stuff,right, we just focus on what I
(13:43):
call the 80% case.
Right, 80% of the employersneed the set of minimum criteria
Verify the name, date of birth,social, and then address
history seven years addresshistory that will give you if
this person has moved from onecounty to another county, if
they committed some crime inanother county that you're not
aware of, right?
(14:04):
That's why we collect theaddress history as well.
And then the criminal, civil,professional license
verification and anything elseyou want to do it.
So that's all there.
It's depending on the volumeand whatnot.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
It's in the $50 to $75 range, depending on the
depth of that Dumb question, artRaj, but how do we know that
person filling that out isactually that person?
The reason I ask this questionis recruiters will sometimes
tell me about fraud storieswhere they're hiring an engineer
.
They take them through skillstests and all everything
(14:35):
behavioral assessments, thewhole bid only to find out that
the person that was doing allthat is not the actual person
that's going to show up.
Yeah, yeah, that's exactly what?
Speaker 2 (14:42):
The first day of work ?
Oh, you mean you.
This is a For an example.
Most background checks do notdo identity verification.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Especially in this day and age when there's a lot
of remote hiring is happening.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
And they are.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
No remote hiring.
They have the lookalikes orpictures and they show their
face once and so on and so forth.
Right, and then it's all athing.
The key to avoid that isperform identity.
Today, in the background check,world identity verification is
an afterthought.
What we do is right up front weverify the identity which is
(15:18):
proof their government issued IDand then we do a liveness
detection of the individual.
You can't just say this is adriver's license picture,
because we say, okay, show us aliveness picture.
We detect the liveness of theindividual and then we verify
the social, the data bird, theaddress, seven years worth of
address history and then wepresent it to them, all of their
(15:39):
criminal court records or civilcourt records.
And then, if they have alicense, the requirement like
it's a driving license, notdriving license, professional
license for something ahairdresser or a CPA or whatever
it is and we verify that.
And then it's part of yourprofile and the profile is only
macro attributes, are disclosed.
(16:00):
None of the underlyinginformation is ever disclosed.
And now they say, hey, you weresponsored by IBM, I'm just
using that as an example andthen go ahead and share it with
them.
You have verified and youshared with them the affiliation
.
We make the connection and theemployer gets it.
They get a portal of all thepeople that have truer scores
and it gives them a view quickview, of who the scores are
(16:23):
changing and whatnot.
And then that's how we gothrough the process.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
I love it.
Okay, so let's do some buy sidequestions for the practitioners
listening.
One is your favorite, or yourteam's favorite, part of the
demo.
Like you, when you get them tothis part of the demo, you know
that they're going to aha moment.
Whatever, you know that they'regoing to really fall in love
with it.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Yeah, it's very simple.
And we start oh, you doidentity verification.
Yes, sir, okay, a RIS man, andwe do that right off the bat.
It's a very simple process.
And then we give them a scoreand say, hey, you don't have to
rat, you prey, because we giveyou criteria.
What is a 320?
It's just like a FICO score.
You know what a 600 or 700 or800 means?
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Right.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
And that's how you design the benefits of the loan
or the interest rates and so onand so forth.
And we are talking to a verylarge what I call a job board.
For example, right, they wantto attach this to all of their
candidates on their database.
That way, if they are talkingto employers that say, hey, I
want a candidates with a 350 andabove, because this is for
(17:32):
financial or the financedepartment, for example, right,
oh, this is for the shop floor.
Okay, I can live with 320.
So we give them the criteriathat, hey, you don't have to
worry about all of those things.
If it's a 290, what does thatmean?
So it's just like looking atthe score and say, wow, I don't
have to deal with walking oneggshells if this person is
(17:55):
going to sue me because I didn'task this question or I asked
them this question or anything,nothing of that, because it is
absolutely non-regulating.
And this is especially good formedium and small businesses,
even more because they can'tafford to have a compliance
department.
They're probably a front-officeperson is the one doing all the
recruiting and hiring,sometimes right, so that this is
(18:18):
even more Compelling for someof those people who don't have a
compliance department, eventhose who have compliance
department.
The biggest part is, in fact, Iwrote an article for Forbes.
You'll see that you can reduceyour business insurance, see
right right because that's wherethe, the hiring practices,
liability insurance or whatevercomes under, literally goes to
(18:39):
zero.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
That's fantastic, okay.
So questions people buyingidentity verification for the
first time, or maybe not for thefirst time.
What are the questions thatthey should be asking you and
your team?
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Hey, how does the?
How do I know the candidatesgoing through the process?
That's usually the questionthat we get.
They spawns, they send aninvite.
It's calling mutation process.
They send an invite.
Hey, there's a link, we areready to make you an offer in
the meantime, get your truestcourse, so we know back right.
And then, by the way, weprotect your privacy and blah,
blah, blah.
It's a good thing.
(19:16):
It's a good attractive tool forAttracting candidates.
Oh, this employer reallyrespects my privacy.
Think about that.
Right, people usually use thisto to penalize or this or that
right, you're yeah yeah, bemaking it easy for them to say
okay, this person reallyrespects.
I don't need all of theinformation because I'm still
(19:38):
not an employee.
Yes, when you become anemployee, you have to give your
social and other personalinformation right to get on the
payroll but until then, you'rewalking around with all these
hot information and personaldata.
Look at the employers.
Oh, I don't have to worry aboutall of that.
You don't have to worry aboutstoring any of that.
So those are all.
Every step we have.
It's a very simple step.
(19:58):
Every step we go through,people say whoa.
I don't have to do this, Idon't have to do that.
Yep, yep, yep.
So five minutes or so, right,and you send them today and it's
available Next day, dependingon if you have to go through a
paywall state where they take 48hours to send back some
information.
But other than that, most of itwe do it pretty fast.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
And no cost to the individual.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
No cost to the individual as the individual is
trying and unless the employersays that we are almost ready,
to sign up a customer.
We've been talking to them fora couple of months.
They have a couple of thousandcontractors.
That and say hey, being part ofour platform, you have to get
your truest code.
That way we can next time whenwe have a, when we send you to
different job site.
(20:45):
It's easy that way.
You don't have to keep doingthis over and over again.
And it's a value that for thisparticular company, because they
say, hey, I am giving you apre-wedded candidate right off
the bat and they're ready to gotomorrow.
It works for both people andthe candidate.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Because you've been doing this so long and without
naming names or any of that typeof stuff.
What are some of the horrorstories that you've seen or
heard of around identityverification?
Speaker 2 (21:13):
We have dead people, which is a case tree that we did
with a very criticalinfrastructure.
A dead person walking aroundwith that brother's identity and
the badge Wow Looking at afacility.
I'm not kidding.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
It's very, god, wow it's about.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
They gave us about 50,000.
We did a pilot for them and itjust blew my mind.
I said how the heck this canhappen.
So that's where there are somepeople that complain hey, my
identity is not going through.
Okay, is your driver's licensevalid, or is it?
You're faking somebody else'sright, so they try to pull a
fast one sometimes, right.
(21:53):
Once you go through this ingeneral.
I always believe that ingeneral, people want to do the
right thing.
Right, I agree.
Unfortunately, the society andthe environment sometimes screws
it up and builds the mistrust.
So I'm a big believer that givethe individual the opportunity
to own their own data.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
In that scenario, raj , it would be really the ethical
dilemma of if that employee wasa high performer, okay, all the
things that we stated andcovered, but what if we found
out that employee was one of ourbest salespeople?
Let's just say then what do wedo?
I know the easy answer is wegot a long go, you know.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Oh, you mean if they had an issue, right?
Yeah, a post hire issue.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Post hire yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
So if you're a company policy, right.
If you're a company, hr,manuals, I know, I know, because
this is a good example youbrought up right.
Financial services are a bigdeal, right?
Yeah, so I always tell right,what are the?
What are you most interested in?
A financial compliance,financial issues and so on and
so forth.
Okay, if somebody gets a DUIfor example.
(23:06):
I always say that that personprobably did a million dollar
deal, had a party right and thenhe got pulled over.
You have to make that judgment.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
And arbitrarily.
You can't just say if you havea DUI or out.
But regulatory issues couldpotentially make that happen and
good point the regulatedindustry is always an issue.
That's why I am trying.
This is a stepping stone intrying to get the regulators off
of these kinds of reasons.
Why the regulators came in isbecause think about it.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Today it was arbitrary.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
No background chakra identity verification.
What happens is you are notpart.
You as an individual is notpart of the process.
Employer works with a thirdparty background check company
and they say, hey, we are goingto hire this person and they
send a link to this person, fillout this form and then collect
all the personal information andthe employer and the third
party are communicating amongstthemselves.
(24:00):
You are left out.
I say when you are brought intothe equation, you can eliminate
3000 pages of regulation fromall the books and save yourself
a lot of money, time, effort andlegal risk.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
And from the candidate experience perspective
, the candidate gets something,they understand what's going on,
they've given permission, theyfeel more important or more
empowered, more part of theprocess.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
It's an easy process.
Oh, this company really likesme and they're giving me this
option that I don't have toshare all this.
But every time you give outyour information, cringe
sometimes.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
What happens to you?
You're under the process,you're not getting a job.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
They still have the data.
Yes, and what does the?
Speaker 2 (24:45):
company have to do.
Oh my God, they have to retainbecause EUC comes in and says
why didn't you hire this person?
Speaker 1 (24:51):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
In this case, you don't have to do anything.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Right, well, raj, this has been wonderful.
Thank you so much for coming on.
I actually love what you'vebuilt and are building, so just
thanks for coming on andexplaining what you're going to
go on.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Thank you, william, this is great.
Thank you for the opportunityto speak.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Absolutely, and thanks for everyone listening
Until next time.
This is William Tin Cup and you are listening to the
Use Case Podcast.
Today we have Rajan from Trua.
He will be learning about thebusiness case, the cost-benefit
analysis or the use case for whyhis prospects and customers
pick Trua.
So let's do some introductions.
Raj, would you do us a favorand introduce both yourself and
(00:22):
Trua?
Hey, good morning, William.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
My name is Raj Anand Thanthalai.
I'm the founder and CEO of acompany called Trua.
Trua is an all-in-one digitalidentity and screening solution
company, primarily targeting HR,recruiters, safety and security
in marketplaces and so on andso forth.
We've been around in differentforms of companies.
(00:46):
Trua is a spin-off of anothercompany called Mdera, which was
a spin-off of another companycalled InfoSense.
We've been in that business forover 20 years.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
And are we within the four walls of the US or are we
doing international?
Right now, we are predominantlyin the United States.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Right, and do you?
Oh, go ahead, no, finish yoursentence.
It's like fishing in PacificOcean it's a big market.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Yeah, and if it's more specialized it gets small,
which is great, because then youcan get dominant faster.
Do folks put you in thebackground check, background
screening category, or do theyput you in a different category?
Speaker 2 (01:24):
We are actually a new generation.
If you think about today'sbackground check industry, 99
plus percent is regulated.
That means they have to adhereto FCA rules and FTC and EUC all
kinds of regulations.
We are the very first solutionthat is non-regulated in the
sense that it's an all-in-one,as I said, digital identity and
(01:48):
screening solution, streamlinesbackground checks and fraud
prevention processes for HRdepartments.
The beauty of that is iteliminates Because of the data
is first verified by thecandidate it eliminates dispute
and adverse action process,further reducing regulatory
(02:10):
burden and legal risk forcompanies and HR departments.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
A few questions.
One is I love that you'remanaging risk managing, fraud
managing, Because that's been,it's historically been why we
use background checks in thefirst phase.
So I want to make sure Iunderstand this is pre-hire and
if so, do you ever foresee thisbeing post-hire, meaning
(02:35):
something that goes andcontinues on with employees?
One of the things is funny.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
You should ask because our other company,
endera, has been in thepost-hire workforce risk
management.
We've been around for five plusyears and we've got Fortune 50
companies using our software forpost-hire.
One of the questions that camealong is hey, you guys do it
very well and it's anon-regulated approach.
(03:02):
You have anything for pre-hire?
Because we could not use thatfor pre-hire because the consent
and the review of the data wasnot performed by the individual.
So within that and all thebreaches that was going around
back in 2017, 18 timeframe, westarted putting our heads
together to develop this newplatform called Trua, which
(03:24):
first lets the consumer or theindividual or the applicant
verify the data.
So Trua score, we call it, isalways current, like a FICO
score.
It's always current.
So you don't have to dopost-hire risk or pre-hire, you
don't have to deviate that.
So you start from recruitingall the way to full lifecycle of
the employee or the candidate.
(03:47):
So that's how we do it.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
It sounds I don't know if it is or isn't but it
sounds like something that couldbe done on blockchain, where
again everything is verified,again eliminating the fraud.
But I don't want to go too fardown the rabbit hole if it's not
blockchain now or later.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Absolutely.
It took the world right of mind.
Our technology, our system isbuilt on a blockchain ledger.
We use the security features ofthe blockchain ledger, so
here's what it is right we let.
The Trua primarily is builtwith privacy and data production
by adheres to stringent dataprivacy and consumer protection
laws and regulations.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
And they get to control that, whether or not
they gave access to that or not.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Yep Ensuring the personal information is handled
appropriately and securely.
So the way we approach to dataminimization only the necessary
information is collected inyour", minimizing the risk of
data breaches or identity theft.
It powers the individual toverify it.
That way there is no disputefor HR managers.
(04:49):
So giving them full controlover the level of information
that they want to share.
For example, if you are in thegig economy and for trust and
safety, they're hey, they'relooking for just criminal
information, right, you justshare the criminal information.
You don't need to share anycivil infractions or civil
issues or any other informationthat you have.
(05:11):
But typically what happens in atraditional background check?
You get a 30, 40, 50 pagereport and then the HR
department has to sift throughall of that and it could be a
hot potato because every statehas different regulations.
Think about it right California, new York and all kinds of
regulations.
Hey, if this is a type ofmisdemeanor or a felony, you
(05:34):
cannot use that for any hiring.
If it's more than five yearsold, or 10 years old, depending
on the state, statues and so onand so forth.
So we have taken all of that andcodified and put into the
system which is saying okay, wehave a three-dimensional
decision matrix.
For every event that individualhas, it says, okay, time, type
(05:58):
of event or recency.
And then we map the sentencingguidelines and also the state
statues and federal statues andsay, okay, what does this state
say?
Oh, you can use this.
I'm just using this as anexample.
This person had a shopliftingevent six years ago, right In
(06:18):
certain states you cannot usethat if it's more than two years
old, or two years old,depending on the state.
So we apply all of that, themorass that people have to go
through and say, okay, this isthe curated event that adheres
to all of the state regulationsand laws, and then you can and,
by the way, the consumer hasalready verified it and then you
can use it.
(06:38):
So the hiring becomes fast.
And then say, okay, and the gigeconomy has 60, 65 million
people in the gig shared economy.
They're looking for jobs.
They have change changes everytwo months, three months.
They have to constantly keepgiving this so they could have
this in their wallet ifnecessary.
And then say, hey, I alreadyhave my stuff and here's my
(07:00):
criminal verification, here's myprofessional license
verification if that's whateducation verification and so on
and so forth.
One of the things that we sawwas there are a lot of static
stuff in an individual, likeyour degree, your credentials in
a professional license and soon and so forth.
They are predominantly staticother than for annals or
disbarment and things like that,but predominantly static.
(07:22):
But still, every time you lookfor a job, you do a background
check.
They have to check that overand over again.
Why?
It's a huge nonsense, in myopinion.
Only thing that changes is yourcode tracker.
You could be arrested, youcould have some issues and so on
and so forth.
So we focus on some of thosedata and we call it
(07:43):
deterministic data Means it isfor sure belongs to you.
That is what we always work on.
That's why most of the if youlook at billions of dollars of
legal litigation that's going onis because of these due process
and wrongful attribution ofdata to a certain individual
Right.
We clean that all up.
(08:04):
That's why we got five pluspatents on these things and
we've been doing this for over20 years, just trying to
determine the data that belongsto the individual.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
So a few questions.
Let's start with keeping upwith the data.
Is there certain things thatthe individual that has to keep
up with if they change theircell phone or their address, or
maybe they change their mind ondifferent permissions, et cetera
, and is there certain datathat's just starting to mind
from outside data sources?
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Yeah, it is always current, right, because right up
front we disclose everythingand it's current.
And then when you share thisdata, by the way, none of the
underlying data is ever shared.
That's what is.
We put in a blockchain, all ofthe raw data, so that nobody can
touch it except you as anindividual.
And then what is shared is hey,you don't have like a truascore
(09:00):
.
For those who want to look atthat, it's on our website,
truameacom.
It'll show you hey, this is thescore.
Okay, this says okay, one ormore criminal events if
necessary.
And if you click on it, it'lltell you oh, it was a minor
misdemeanor or whatever.
It is jaywalking, right, youcan make that decision if you
want.
And the individual has turnedthat feature on.
(09:22):
They can turn it off any timeand for every share, okay yeah,
it's not just all in one Everytime they want to share with an
employer or somebody else.
They can do that the first timethey need to be sponsored by
somebody in this case usuallybecause today it's all B2B so
they get sponsored by a companyand then they can take it with
(09:44):
them for the rest of their likesand it's always current and if
they change their phone numberor email or whatever it is,
they're all verified and thenupdated.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Okay, so I think you mentioned safety and if you did,
I wanted to ask you do we keeptrack of accidents or work
claims, et cetera?
Speaker 2 (10:03):
It depends right.
We go with all of thedeterministic data, Got it.
If you're objective, we don'twant to bother with that.
That's why we get social mediadata, because that could be just
garbage.
Most of it is yeah somebodycould be ranting, that doesn't
mean that person is wrong, hasdone something wrong.
So we look for deterministicdata, probabilistic data.
(10:25):
We can get to it, we have it,but that needs a little further
evolution.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Where do we fit in with the recruiter workflow?
So, as they're going throughtheir process, obviously they're
sourcing, they're going to findthe candidates.
Once they find the candidates,then recruiters do their bid,
and I'm assuming this issomewhere in that process.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yeah, one of two things.
Right, as soon as here's thebest part.
Right Because it's a newerproduct that's been in the
market.
The truos could have been inthe market for a little over a
year and the truos ID, we justlaunched, just the ID piece
alone, a month ago.
Right, because when we talkedto the banks they said hey your
identity verification seems tobe very compelling.
(11:08):
The reason why we did that waswhen you are presented with code
record.
It is so intimate.
We want to absolutely make sureyou are who you say you are.
That's why we went through thatprocess.
And then they say, hey, that IDprocess, or ID verification
process, is very compelling andthat gave us an idea to just
separate that out.
So what happens is within theemployer base, the employer
(11:29):
sponsors they say, hey, therecruiter says we got to do plus
customers right now.
But they say, hey, I'm going tohire somebody, go get this
truos code and they go throughthe process and it is shared and
they come on board.
That's one process.
The second process, when theycan advertise, for example, this
is where the future is.
(11:50):
They can advertise that, hey,for this position I need a
bachelor's degree, two years ofexperience and a truos code of
I'm just making this up 325 andabove and that can say if you
want to get your truos code, puta link there and then they get
it.
They get the truos code and theycan be reimbursed for that,
obviously.
And then they submit the scopeIf they know.
(12:13):
If it's not 325, or let's saythis person had a criminal
record 290, they're not going toapply for the job.
And then the recruiters alreadymade it clear they don't have
to deal with this hot potato.
It's, oh my God, because youcannot score ban the box in 32
or 36 states.
You cannot ask the candidate ifyou have a criminal record
(12:36):
until and after you offer them ajob.
Let's assume you pick acandidate, go through the
interview, pick a candidate,spend 8 to 10 weeks in trying to
come to a candidate orcandidates, and then you do a
background check and then that'swhere happens.
And then you have to justify isthis criminal record relevant
to the job?
Right, oh my god, this is somuch burden on HR people, right?
(13:01):
Instead of fun?
You get it done, right?
Hey, you verify and let us know, boom, almost all of them will
self opt out.
Hey, I'm not going to bequalified for this job.
So, what's the price?
Speaker 1 (13:14):
What's the price, Raj ?
What's the pricing model?
Not pricing per se, but I'veseen these kind of priced out in
different ways.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Yep we are trying to standardize that right.
Today, a background check cango from a cheesy internet search
, which is nothing which is ascam, actually, in my opinion to
a real good close to $200sometimes, depending on what you
want to check.
You want to check driver'srecords, mbr, professional
licenses, all kinds of stuff,right, we just focus on what I
(13:43):
call the 80% case.
Right, 80% of the employersneed the set of minimum criteria
Verify the name, date of birth,social, and then address
history seven years addresshistory that will give you if
this person has moved from onecounty to another county, if
they committed some crime inanother county that you're not
aware of, right?
(14:04):
That's why we collect theaddress history as well.
And then the criminal, civil,professional license
verification and anything elseyou want to do it.
So that's all there.
It's depending on the volumeand whatnot.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
It's in the $50 to $75 range, depending on the
depth of that Dumb question, artRaj, but how do we know that
person filling that out isactually that person?
The reason I ask this questionis recruiters will sometimes
tell me about fraud storieswhere they're hiring an engineer
.
They take them through skillstests and all everything
(14:35):
behavioral assessments, thewhole bid only to find out that
the person that was doing allthat is not the actual person
that's going to show up.
Yeah, yeah, that's exactly what?
Speaker 2 (14:42):
The first day of work ?
Oh, you mean you.
This is a For an example.
Most background checks do notdo identity verification.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Especially in this day and age when there's a lot
of remote hiring is happening.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
And they are.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
No remote hiring.
They have the lookalikes orpictures and they show their
face once and so on and so forth.
Right, and then it's all athing.
The key to avoid that isperform identity.
Today, in the background check,world identity verification is
an afterthought.
What we do is right up front weverify the identity which is
(15:18):
proof their government issued IDand then we do a liveness
detection of the individual.
You can't just say this is adriver's license picture,
because we say, okay, show us aliveness picture.
We detect the liveness of theindividual and then we verify
the social, the data bird, theaddress, seven years worth of
address history and then wepresent it to them, all of their
(15:39):
criminal court records or civilcourt records.
And then, if they have alicense, the requirement like
it's a driving license, notdriving license, professional
license for something ahairdresser or a CPA or whatever
it is and we verify that.
And then it's part of yourprofile and the profile is only
macro attributes, are disclosed.
(16:00):
None of the underlyinginformation is ever disclosed.
And now they say, hey, you weresponsored by IBM, I'm just
using that as an example andthen go ahead and share it with
them.
You have verified and youshared with them the affiliation
.
We make the connection and theemployer gets it.
They get a portal of all thepeople that have truer scores
and it gives them a view quickview, of who the scores are
(16:23):
changing and whatnot.
And then that's how we gothrough the process.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
I love it.
Okay, so let's do some buy sidequestions for the practitioners
listening.
One is your favorite, or yourteam's favorite, part of the
demo.
Like you, when you get them tothis part of the demo, you know
that they're going to aha moment.
Whatever, you know that they'regoing to really fall in love
with it.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Yeah, it's very simple.
And we start oh, you doidentity verification.
Yes, sir, okay, a RIS man, andwe do that right off the bat.
It's a very simple process.
And then we give them a scoreand say, hey, you don't have to
rat, you prey, because we giveyou criteria.
What is a 320?
It's just like a FICO score.
You know what a 600 or 700 or800 means?
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Right.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
And that's how you design the benefits of the loan
or the interest rates and so onand so forth.
And we are talking to a verylarge what I call a job board.
For example, right, they wantto attach this to all of their
candidates on their database.
That way, if they are talkingto employers that say, hey, I
want a candidates with a 350 andabove, because this is for
(17:32):
financial or the financedepartment, for example, right,
oh, this is for the shop floor.
Okay, I can live with 320.
So we give them the criteriathat, hey, you don't have to
worry about all of those things.
If it's a 290, what does thatmean?
So it's just like looking atthe score and say, wow, I don't
have to deal with walking oneggshells if this person is
(17:55):
going to sue me because I didn'task this question or I asked
them this question or anything,nothing of that, because it is
absolutely non-regulating.
And this is especially good formedium and small businesses,
even more because they can'tafford to have a compliance
department.
They're probably a front-officeperson is the one doing all the
recruiting and hiring,sometimes right, so that this is
(18:18):
even more Compelling for someof those people who don't have a
compliance department, eventhose who have compliance
department.
The biggest part is, in fact, Iwrote an article for Forbes.
You'll see that you can reduceyour business insurance, see
right right because that's wherethe, the hiring practices,
liability insurance or whatevercomes under, literally goes to
(18:39):
zero.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
That's fantastic, okay.
So questions people buyingidentity verification for the
first time, or maybe not for thefirst time.
What are the questions thatthey should be asking you and
your team?
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Hey, how does the?
How do I know the candidatesgoing through the process?
That's usually the questionthat we get.
They spawns, they send aninvite.
It's calling mutation process.
They send an invite.
Hey, there's a link, we areready to make you an offer in
the meantime, get your truestcourse, so we know back right.
And then, by the way, weprotect your privacy and blah,
blah, blah.
It's a good thing.
(19:16):
It's a good attractive tool forAttracting candidates.
Oh, this employer reallyrespects my privacy.
Think about that.
Right, people usually use thisto to penalize or this or that
right, you're yeah yeah, bemaking it easy for them to say
okay, this person reallyrespects.
I don't need all of theinformation because I'm still
(19:38):
not an employee.
Yes, when you become anemployee, you have to give your
social and other personalinformation right to get on the
payroll but until then, you'rewalking around with all these
hot information and personaldata.
Look at the employers.
Oh, I don't have to worry aboutall of that.
You don't have to worry aboutstoring any of that.
So those are all.
Every step we have.
It's a very simple step.
(19:58):
Every step we go through,people say whoa.
I don't have to do this, Idon't have to do that.
Yep, yep, yep.
So five minutes or so, right,and you send them today and it's
available Next day, dependingon if you have to go through a
paywall state where they take 48hours to send back some
information.
But other than that, most of itwe do it pretty fast.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
And no cost to the individual.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
No cost to the individual as the individual is
trying and unless the employersays that we are almost ready,
to sign up a customer.
We've been talking to them fora couple of months.
They have a couple of thousandcontractors.
That and say hey, being part ofour platform, you have to get
your truest code.
That way we can next time whenwe have a, when we send you to
different job site.
(20:45):
It's easy that way.
You don't have to keep doingthis over and over again.
And it's a value that for thisparticular company, because they
say, hey, I am giving you apre-wedded candidate right off
the bat and they're ready to gotomorrow.
It works for both people andthe candidate.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Because you've been doing this so long and without
naming names or any of that typeof stuff.
What are some of the horrorstories that you've seen or
heard of around identityverification?
Speaker 2 (21:13):
We have dead people, which is a case tree that we did
with a very criticalinfrastructure.
A dead person walking aroundwith that brother's identity and
the badge Wow Looking at afacility.
I'm not kidding.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
It's very, god, wow it's about.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
They gave us about 50,000.
We did a pilot for them and itjust blew my mind.
I said how the heck this canhappen.
So that's where there are somepeople that complain hey, my
identity is not going through.
Okay, is your driver's licensevalid, or is it?
You're faking somebody else'sright, so they try to pull a
fast one sometimes, right.
(21:53):
Once you go through this ingeneral.
I always believe that ingeneral, people want to do the
right thing.
Right, I agree.
Unfortunately, the society andthe environment sometimes screws
it up and builds the mistrust.
So I'm a big believer that givethe individual the opportunity
to own their own data.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
In that scenario, raj , it would be really the ethical
dilemma of if that employee wasa high performer, okay, all the
things that we stated andcovered, but what if we found
out that employee was one of ourbest salespeople?
Let's just say then what do wedo?
I know the easy answer is wegot a long go, you know.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Oh, you mean if they had an issue, right?
Yeah, a post hire issue.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Post hire yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
So if you're a company policy, right.
If you're a company, hr,manuals, I know, I know, because
this is a good example youbrought up right.
Financial services are a bigdeal, right?
Yeah, so I always tell right,what are the?
What are you most interested in?
A financial compliance,financial issues and so on and
so forth.
Okay, if somebody gets a DUIfor example.
(23:06):
I always say that that personprobably did a million dollar
deal, had a party right and thenhe got pulled over.
You have to make that judgment.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
And arbitrarily.
You can't just say if you havea DUI or out.
But regulatory issues couldpotentially make that happen and
good point the regulatedindustry is always an issue.
That's why I am trying.
This is a stepping stone intrying to get the regulators off
of these kinds of reasons.
Why the regulators came in isbecause think about it.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Today it was arbitrary.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
No background chakra identity verification.
What happens is you are notpart.
You as an individual is notpart of the process.
Employer works with a thirdparty background check company
and they say, hey, we are goingto hire this person and they
send a link to this person, fillout this form and then collect
all the personal information andthe employer and the third
party are communicating amongstthemselves.
(24:00):
You are left out.
I say when you are brought intothe equation, you can eliminate
3000 pages of regulation fromall the books and save yourself
a lot of money, time, effort andlegal risk.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
And from the candidate experience perspective
, the candidate gets something,they understand what's going on,
they've given permission, theyfeel more important or more
empowered, more part of theprocess.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
It's an easy process.
Oh, this company really likesme and they're giving me this
option that I don't have toshare all this.
But every time you give outyour information, cringe
sometimes.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
What happens to you?
You're under the process,you're not getting a job.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
They still have the data.
Yes, and what does the?
Speaker 2 (24:45):
company have to do.
Oh my God, they have to retainbecause EUC comes in and says
why didn't you hire this person?
Speaker 1 (24:51):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
In this case, you don't have to do anything.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Right, well, raj, this has been wonderful.
Thank you so much for coming on.
I actually love what you'vebuilt and are building, so just
thanks for coming on andexplaining what you're going to
go on.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Thank you, william, this is great.
Thank you for the opportunityto speak.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Absolutely, and thanks for everyone listening
Until next time.
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