September 3, 2024 • 37 mins
Unlock the secrets to a successful career transition with Hilda Naluanga, a senior UX researcher at Xsolla, in our latest episode. Discover how Hilda navigated the fascinating shift from a career development coach in South Africa to becoming a key player in the video game industry. You’ll learn how her passion for design thinking and human-centered approaches led her to pursue an innovative path in UX research, and gain valuable advice for educators eager to break into the tech world.
Explore with us the art of relationship building and effective communication within the realm of UX research. Hilda shares eye-opening insights from her tenure at Meta, including the unexpected need to advocate for UX research, even in large organizations. We'll also touch on the challenges and strategies for maintaining a healthy work-life balance while working remotely with a global team, and the distinct dynamics of large companies compared to startups.
Understand the strategic shift from junior to senior UX researcher as Hilda reflects on her career growth. The conversation highlights the importance of marketing one's skills, proactively seeking opportunities, and translating experiences from other fields into the tech industry's language. Whether you're looking to advance in your current role or pivot to a new field, Hilda's journey offers invaluable lessons on navigating career transitions, understanding business goals, and adapting to various work environments.
The following acronyms were used in this interview:
MAANG: an acronym for the five most prominent tech companies; Meta, Amazon, Apple, Netflix, and Google.
NGO: Non-governmental organization
Connect with Hilda on Linkedin
Email Hilda: hbnalwanga@gmail.com
Text Me! 📱I’d love to hear from you! Click here to send me a message.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the UX Teacher Prep Podcast, the
ultimate destination foreducators who aspire to break
into the field of userexperience and product design.
Your host, zee Arnold, a15-year teacher turned UX
researcher, is here to guide,coach and mentor you through
every twist and turn as you makeyour career transition into
tech.
If you're ready for a moresatisfying career and lifestyle
(00:22):
and you want the balance tounleash your creativity, this
podcast is for you.
Now for the show.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Hello friends, welcome to Season 2 of the UX
Teacher Prep Podcast.
We have lots of excitinginterviews and episodes coming
your way.
Before we get into the show, Iwant to shout out a listener who
sent me some fan mail on thelast episode of season one.
Hey, marcella, from New Jersey,I hear you've been loving the
podcast so far and you recentlygot your master's in UX design,
(00:59):
so congratulations.
Go ahead and connect with me onLinkedIn and I'll send over the
Slack information you requested.
Thank you so much for listeningto the show.
Today I'm bringing you aninterview with Hilda Naluanga, a
senior UX researcher at Ixola,a video game company.
Hilda stumbled into UX researchrather organically after
starting her career right out ofcollege as an early career
(01:21):
counselor at a high school inSouth Africa.
She then decided to get aMaster of Education in Learning
Design Innovation.
Her first job in UX researchwas at Meta and she recently
transitioned into a senior UXresearch position in the video
game industry.
Outside of work, she loves toread, write, do jigsaw puzzles
and grow indoor plants.
In this interview, we talkabout her experience working on
(01:44):
a well-established UXR teamversus a small startup and the
benefits of both, and thedifference between a junior UX
researcher and a senior UXresearcher, and so much more.
She also gives some reallysolid advice for transitioning
out of the classroom and theeducation space.
I learned so much from Hilda andI hope you will too.
Let's listen, all right, hilda,it's so great to have you on
(02:06):
the show today.
How are you?
I'm good.
How are you doing, zee?
I'm good, thank you.
So I'm super excited for you tobe here today because, like me,
you came from the educationspace and found your way to UX
research, so let's start bytelling everyone a bit about who
you are.
Yeah, so let's start by tellingeveryone a bit about who you
are.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yeah, my name is Hilda.
I am a UX researcher, currentlya master UX researcher at Exola
, which is a video gamedevelopment and payments company
.
I started my career out as acareer development coach, slash
associate.
I was introduced to designthinking a bit while in college,
(02:43):
but I didn't really get verydeep into it.
But I was always in the spaceof learning and making learning
accessible to people of allkinds of backgrounds, and so
after my undergrad I moved toJohannesburg to work at this
high school, the AfricanLeadership Academy Academy, and
(03:08):
while there I was supposed to besupporting mostly low-income
first-gen students who were in,who were leaving high school for
colleges, to help them figureout their careers and like find
jobs.
So that means I was alsoworking with different companies
that were looking for, you know, like early career employees in
different spaces, and there isthis blanket idea that with like
(03:28):
the job search, if you have agood resume, you're going to be
okay and that's what matters.
But the more I began to talk tomy students, I realized that
everyone was different and thatthere were so many different
powers at play given like,depending on the student,
because I had students who weregoing to like very, very high
(03:49):
resourced schools like Stanford,but also students who were in
universities in Uganda wherethey didn't even have a career
center and we had a blanket, youknow, like everything fits
everyone type of serviceoffering, and I began to be like
this doesn't seem like it'sworking.
I looked at the data and wewere clearly mostly supporting
(04:10):
students who already had a lotof resources and they would be
okay even without us, and so Igot really obsessed with the
data and I was like, okay, itlooks like this is who we are
helping.
This is what we want to do.
We are not really supportingthis group.
How do we feel about that?
My manager at the time she wasreally just like supportive.
(04:32):
She was like I think that's athing, I think that's called
research and it exists in a lotof different spaces.
It seems like something thatjust like comes naturally to you
.
You're always very curiousabout who exactly you're trying
to work with to make sure thatyou're doing something that's
(04:52):
going to be helpful for them.
Yeah, so that's where mycuriosity started.
So I did the job for threeyears and when I began to put
that very, very just likehuman-centered approach to my
career offering, I began toenjoy my job a lot more, and
even the data began to show thatwe actually were speaking to
students.
It was so fascinating.
So, after three years, I wantedto explore this space further,
(05:13):
so I left Johannesburg, cameback to the United States and
went to grad school.
I did a master's in learning,design, innovation and
technology, which is a spacethat brings together learning
and UX very well.
So it was from that master'sprogram that I then pivoted into
tech.
My first role in UX research wasat Meta, which I interestingly
(05:36):
learned because when I came backto grad school, I was really
trying to learn about this spaceand I knew that I needed so
many skills that I did not knowhow to explain before.
So I was doing everything tosee that I can learn about this
space.
And I knew that I needed somany skills that I did not know
how to explain before.
So I was doing everything tosee that I can learn about this
space.
I was listening to podcasts, Iwas talking to different kinds
of people and I actually wasreaching out to people who were
(05:58):
on on podcasts that I was like,this person sounds kind of
friendly.
And I reached out to them andjust be like oh, my name is
Hilda, I want to get into UXresearch from the education
space.
How do I do it?
Yeah, and that's how I ended uphere.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Oh, wow, wow, Interesting.
So you were reaching out topeople who had podcasts and just
asking you know, how do I getinto that space of UX research
education?
Wow, it's interesting.
You said a lot about yourjourney and how you kind of
started off before you got toZola as a senior UX researcher.
So you were working as a highschool early career counselor,
right, yes, that's veryinteresting because you were in
(06:35):
the school space but you weren'tnecessarily a teacher.
That's really cool, you knowworking with students and just
seeing those connections.
Can you tell us a little bitabout what your day-to-day looks
like in your role as a seniorUX researcher?
Speaker 2 (06:48):
So I'm currently supporting two teams and I'm
supporting the payments team.
My day-to-day is very much.
I work with product owners.
I understand exactly what theyare working on during the year,
and then I begin to look intothat to be like okay, so then
(07:08):
what questions need to beanswered for you to do your job
well?
So that happened earlier in theyear, and so at the beginning
of the year, I spent a lot oftime talking to product owners
to understand the productroadmap so that I can begin
thinking about what questionsneed to be answered and in what
timelines for them to do theirjob well.
And I do that with all theproduct owners that I'm working
(07:30):
with, sometimes two, sometimesthree.
And then after that, and duringthat time too, you meet product
owners who don't know anythingabout research or those who
don't think they need it.
So it's a mix of being likeokay, so these are your research
needs and this is what UXresearch is.
So a mix of research,evangelizing and also
(07:53):
understanding the needs of theteams that I'm working with, and
then I create a researchroadmap and then I begin on the
research.
So I'm always working on abouttwo to three projects at the
same time and they are all indifferent stages of them, like
currently, I am analyzing aproject that I recently finished
(08:14):
fielding for yesterday, whilealso in the second stage of a
design sprint for a researchproject that I presented a
readout for two weeks ago.
So I'm always running variousprojects at the same time in
different stages, while alsoscoping new projects and making
sure that my team feelssupported.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Yeah, so doing the work of a UX researcher includes
, you know, educating others andteaching them what the process
is like and what UX research isall about.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Yes, you'd be so surprised because my first
official role was with Meta andyou'd think that for a company
that big with resources likethat, with 6,000 UX researchers,
everybody would understandresearch and you wouldn't have
to do any evangelizing.
And even there that wasn'tnecessarily the case and not
necessarily that even there thatwasn't necessarily the case and
(09:04):
not necessarily that evenpeople there don't understand
research.
But sometimes you talk to aproduct owner and what they want
is for you to validate somethings that they've already
assumed to be to under andalready working on.
And sometimes, like with mycurrent job, sometimes it's
teams that are like, oh, becauseI do, xyz, I don't need any
(09:25):
kind of research, and I'm like,huh, I actually don't think so.
I think I realized that a really, really key part of being a UX
researcher that I did notunderstand fully before I
started doing my job wasgenuinely relationship building,
and I feel like all of thisfalls under that, because even
being able to evangelizeresearch and teach somebody
(09:46):
about why they need research orwhat kind of research they need,
you need to be in their goodgraces.
It's so interesting.
Um, you need, you need to be intheir good graces.
You need to make sure that youguys, you understand each other
and you're going to be able tolisten to each other, and then
you bring different parts of ittogether.
So it's a lot of talking topeople, evangelizing research,
(10:08):
but also making sure that,because once you talk to people
and understand each other verywell, then there's a chance that
your findings will beimplemented, and you want that.
So, yeah, it's a lot ofcommunication, a lot of
relationship building, which wasvery much the case in career
development work, because ifyou're going to support students
(10:29):
, you need to be able to supportthose students' needs and you
need to understand the studentsvery well, and if you don't
understand them, then you're notgoing to be able to support
them appropriately, support themappropriately.
So that relationship buildingpiece was a very key piece that
I think moved over I guess veryseamlessly, from the work I was
(10:52):
doing prior to joining UxResearch to what I'm doing right
now.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
So it sounds like, when you think about the
connections between what youwere doing with the high school
students, basically knowing youraudience and relationship
building, was key for you inthat transition.
Yes, I wanted to ask also withyour current role is it remote
or is it a hybrid?
Or is it in person?
It's fully remote, fully remote.
(11:17):
Wow.
How do you feel about work-lifebalance with this role as a
senior UX researcher?
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Yeah, so most of my team is in Europe and so the
time zone, yeah, they're in avery different time zone.
To begin with, most of my teamis in Russia and Poland and our
time zones are almost lit andsometimes I have meetings going
on at I'm not even kidding like2am, 3am.
(11:43):
I have had to learn to be like.
If meeting at 2am, is itcrucial for me to be there?
Most times the answer is no, soI've had to make a boundary for
myself and say what's thelatest I'm going to allow myself
to be on calls, and my earliesthas been 7 am.
(12:04):
7 am, okay Early.
Sometimes I make it 5 am, but 7am Unless like.
So sometimes I have calls, likewhen we have design sprints.
Most of my team is in Russia, soI have to.
If that's the case, then I'llput a meeting at 5 am and then
I'll begin my day at 6.
(12:24):
And by meeting at 5am and thenI'll begin my day at 6 and by
like 2pm, I'm done with my day.
I'm trying to be very aware ofthat giving and knowing that I
have to live my life and that isvery important.
So I'm like, if I begin my dayat 5, I'll be done at 3, and
then I'll I'll take a walk, thenI will read something, then
I'll call my friends.
Yeah, but my days tend to begina lot earlier than normal jobs
(12:44):
just because of where my team is, but even with that, I try to
make it such that.
So then that doesn't mean thatI'm working from 5 pm to 5 pm as
well, and my team has been.
I think that's something thatI'm so grateful for.
My team is very aware thathuman beings come to work and
that these jobs are important,but so it's our health and
well-being, and my manager isalways like oh, you need to take
(13:05):
time off or you need to rest.
You need to make sure thatyou're.
If you're beginning your day at2 am, you're also ending it so
now, or you're taking breaks andactually taking naps.
So I'm very grateful for thatto be my case.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Yeah, it's great that you have that flexibility to
kind of make your hours work forthe.
I know you're in central timeright in Chicago.
Yes, yeah, to make your hourswork for everyone that you have
to have meetings with throughoutthe day, so that is really cool
.
I'm also a remote worker so Iknow that we have different time
zones, but we're mostly here inthe US, so that was interesting
(13:39):
.
Now you talked about basicallyadvocating for research on your
team, whether it was, you know,on a large team like Meta, or
even on a smaller team at Zola.
So I wanted to talk about justI had this idea about, you know,
working for large companiesversus small companies, startups
versus more established youknow, ux research, established
(14:03):
UX research.
So can you talk to me about,maybe, the differences between
that and how you feel about it?
Because a lot of teachers askme should I go to a startup?
Is that going to be too much,or should I go to a more
well-established place, justtransitioning from teaching to
UX research?
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Yeah, that's a really good question.
I think one of the things thatI really was so grateful for
about working at a very bigcompany at the time that I did
is, first of all, I was a babyresearcher.
My actual UX, ux researchprojects that I had done I had
done in grad school.
(14:33):
Right Before that.
The work I was doing was verylearner-centered, but it was not
in tech, so there was a lot oftransition that I had not
learned how to do yet.
And joining a team that was bigand I joined a team that had, I
think, at least fiveresearchers on just that one
(14:55):
team.
That meant that there were somany different people who were
actually passionate aboutresearch and they were already
doing work.
So, as a person who was justlearning, that was actually very
, very helpful.
I know there's a lot of otherpressures that come from working
in like man that kind of thing,but also just having a team
that I could actually learn from.
(15:16):
There are so many projects thathad been done.
So even when I get a projectlike oh go, work on this
literature review, there are somany literature reviews from
very similar work for me to lookat and then get a place where
to start, and I had other UXresearchers that I could reach
out to when I'm beginning tosculpt a project to see if they
have done similar work and talkto them and get advice on
(15:38):
research methods.
That, as a person who was justlearning in the space, I
appreciated that very much.
One of the researchers on myteam is now my mentor and is the
person who connected us in yourlife.
Yeah, yeah, because I was stillnew to the space and I was
still trying to learn.
On the other hand, now that I'mworking at a company where the
(16:01):
research team is still very newand big, I'm one of the
inaugural researchers in thecompany.
When you are in that space, youare the person who knows
everything and you're the personeverybody comes to because
there is no one else.
So I have needed to amp up myconfidence on this team because
(16:23):
I'm the person everyone comes toand even when I don't know the
things, I have to find ways oflearning the answers to those
things, because I have no oneelse on the team with the
knowledge that will help me inthose ways.
But that also means that I havebeen able to stretch myself in
so many ways.
But that also means that I havebeen able to stretch myself in
(16:44):
so many ways.
I think we have this theory thatpeople who are doing their jobs
have already known how to dothem and they are doing them.
So it's just us who are maybestruggling sometimes.
But no one knows everything,and being in a very startup-y,
uxr type of space has taught meoh my God, I can actually learn
anything.
When I was at Meta, if therewere design sprints, I had other
(17:06):
researchers to support me onthose.
I'm currently running a designsprint and I'm the first person
to do everything.
But there is so many resourceseverywhere, so I have learned to
learn to do a lot of thingsthat I could easily get help
with.
So there is that.
But it means that I have grownso much more as a researcher
because the need is so muchgreater here, and I'm so
(17:28):
grateful for that.
So I have learned that atdifferent times in my career I
have had to choose what is mypriority right now.
Do I want financial stability?
That's a real thing.
So then, how does that workwith startups versus established
companies?
Do I have the skills I need tostand on my own right now, like,
what do I want to focus onright now?
(17:49):
And then that determines whereI want to go?
But you will find similarproblems in similar spaces and
you get to flex differentmuscles and then, depending on
the space you're in, I I wouldsay I have talked to other
researchers who began in smallercompanies and now they work for
like chefs and even them.
It's just been like, oh my God,it's the same issues.
(18:11):
It's just that you have to dealwith them differently depending
on the context that you're in.
So I would say A you have theskills because you're a teacher,
because you're in the educationspace, you're used to being
scrappy and working with people,so you have the skills
technically to work in a startupor in a big organization.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
I think it's a matter of figuring out your priorities
and seeing what you want to payattention to the most in the
first place and then going withthat, yeah, being scrappy, and
it sounds like same skill setbut applying it in a different
way, and I feel like it soundslike you're saying that, no
matter which way you go, you'llbe able to use your kind of like
(18:48):
teacher skill set.
Yes, I think to manage.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Yeah, I think for me, one of the really hard things
about making the transition wasbeing able to talk about my
experiences in ways that madesense in the technical world.
So it's not even like, oh, do Ihave the skills to be in a
startup?
Versus.
It's just, how do I translatemy skills?
Because, at least for me, whenI was in the education space, I
(19:15):
was very sure that my skillswere not transferable and that I
had nothing to bring to anyoneoutside of the education space.
And then I began talking topeople and then I realized, oh,
we just call things verydifferently.
Who somebody else calls aproduct owner, you will call
them something else.
In the NGO space, for instance,which is I was an education, not
(19:36):
NGO type setting and being ableto translate the work I was
doing and the jargon wasactually such a big deal,
because you want to soundconfident, you want to sound
like you know what you'retalking about, and if you don't
fully trust or believe inyourself, that is going to show.
(19:57):
Once I was able to make thatconnection which was actually
like when I was, when I was ableto make that connection which
was actually like when I wasworking on my portfolio
Portfolios.
I hate my portfolio so muchit's like pulling teeth, but it
was such an exercise in melearning to talk about my work,
because you have the same storybut you have to talk about it
(20:19):
from very different angles overand over and over again until
you are convinced by it, untilit makes sense, and then, once
you do that, then you're able tobring it to somebody else.
That, for me, was really,really difficult, and so I had a
lot of help in terms of peoplewho I was like.
Okay, let me pitch to you who Iam as a UX researcher.
(20:40):
Let me show you my portfolio sothat you can help me figure out
.
What am I still missing?
What connection am I still notmaking between the work I was
doing and the work I was doingright now?
And I wanted to make it veryclear that I'm not a UX
researcher, despite the factthat I was in education before,
but it's that background thatmakes me a strong researcher,
and here's how, and so I wasable to make that connection.
(21:03):
It was like it didn't matterwhich kind of space I'm in.
I could do it, but thatconnection is yeah, that was
really hard for me to do.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
Yeah, yeah, when you talked about the jargon, it
reminded me of my first days, myfirst months as a UX researcher
, when I came into the ed techspace from teaching and I knew
what I wanted to say, but Ididn't have the right UX
research words, so to speak, toreally explain what I was trying
to say and I just found myselfgrabbing in the air to find the
(21:34):
right words.
And now I actually know thejargon and things like that and
it's much easier, but in thebeginning it was just like what
is the word that they use forthis, right?
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Yes, yes, no one talks about how, just like
language itself, it can be soinaccessible and it can make you
feel like I don't know anything, I don't belong in this space,
and it's okay.
It's not just you.
It's very difficult, and solook for the support that you
need and focus on it, becauseyou are not wrong to think it's
not just you.
It's very difficult, and solook for the support that you
(22:04):
need and focus on it, becauseit's like you are not wrong to
think it's giving you a hardtime.
It is not because of you, it'sbecause it's actually.
I feel like sometimes that it'smeant to already do that get
keepy thing, and so you have tokeep trying.
You have to talk to people andyou have to learn ways of
translating yourself, becauseyou have the skills.
I think that's the first thing.
Many need to know that I havethe skills.
(22:26):
I just don't know yet how theyapply in this world.
That was still a mysteriousarea to me, or something that I
really felt like I wanted, but Idid not belong in.
Yeah, and figuring that outhelped me so much.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
Yeah, that's a good message for transitioning
teachers, because when we're inthe space of teaching, we just
don't think that we can doanything else.
And there's so much more thatwe can do, so there's so many
different career paths we cantake.
So that's important to doingthe high school early career
counselor role for three years.
(23:05):
So how long did it take you toactually transition into UX
research once you decided that'swhat you wanted to do?
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Yeah, so I did that for three years and then I came
back to grad school and when Icame back to grad school, I made
it very clear that I wanted totransition into UX research.
So I spent, I would say, thegrad school year was the year
that I began my transition,because while I was taking
classes, I was also doinginternships with my professors
(23:34):
and I was able to take classesin which we're actually getting
to consult with organizations.
So, for instance, one of myclasses I got to consult with
Sesame.
So, for instance, one of myclasses I got to consult with
Sesame Street and PBS Kids abouttheir websites and their
content for kids and how parentsare receiving their content,
and that I got to do for free ingrad school.
(23:56):
So those are the projects of myportfolio in addition to some
of my education work.
But I did this project and Ibegan to work on a portfolio
with that.
So I was like, okay, so I hadone project from my education
work that I was trying to figureout the language for, and then
I was like, if I then do oneactual UXR project, I can mix
(24:19):
and match these ones togetherand I can always talk about them
.
So then I was actively trying tolearn how to market my skills
while also acquiring more, so Iwould say, I began the
transition in grad school andactually like learning skills,
while also learning how to talkabout the ones I had, and I
began to interview veryproactively, even when I did not
(24:41):
necessarily have real UXexperience with my belt quote,
unquote.
And, like I said, I decided tofocus on how I talk about myself
because I did not have the time.
I did not have the time to waituntil I have all the skills
that I needed, so I was like Ineed to go out of my way of
using what I have right now.
So I would say it was the yearof grad school and then, after
(25:03):
that one year, I started my roleat Meta.
So it was a one-year transitionprocess, but it was very
aggressive.
I was calling people, I wasapplying to a lot.
It was also the year when thelayoffs started in the tech
(25:25):
space.
That was a lot.
That was a lot of moving parts,but I think the transition was
a mix of me learning new skillsand me learning how to talk
about the skills that I had andI don't think I can stress that
bit enough and so, within oneyear, I was able to land my
first role and I feel like evenin my first role, I was learning
(25:46):
how to talk about myself how totalk about myself as well, also
developing new ones.
I feel like I'm still doingthat right now.
This is officially my thirdyear in UX research and I feel
like I'm still learning to talkapart myself.
I'm still learning new skills,yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Yeah, yeah, I like what you said.
I feel like even as teachers,when we work with students, we
teach them how to advocate forthemselves and talk about
themselves and things like that,and then we find ourselves in
the same situation where we haveto do the same for ourselves
and for our advancement.
So it kind of mirrors what wedo in the classroom.
Yes, yeah, so you started offas a UX researcher and then you
(26:29):
became a senior UX researcher.
So let's talk a little bitabout the difference in your
eyes between a junior and asenior.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Yeah, I love that question very much because I
think as a junior UX researchermuch.
Because I think as a junior UXresearcher, one of the main
differences that I saw and Ithink the disclaimer is that
also this might have beenbecause I was at a very big
organization.
I was on a research team and Iwas, in a way, supporting other
(26:55):
researchers a lot and sometimesI had research questions come to
my table where it was like hereis a question and here is the
method, now go do the researchright.
And so in that way, a lot oftimes I didn't have the full
business goal in view and I wasworking with somebody else who
(27:15):
knew the field businessunderstanding, like you said, of
the business very much and Iwas just focusing on trying to
answer this question.
And so when I was a juniorresearcher, knowing research
methods was very important andknowing how to execute on them
was really key.
So, I had to know how to make adiscussion guide.
(27:36):
I had to know when I'm going tointerview versus do a survey,
versus do some other thing, andthen I would go in the field, do
the research and then I had toknow how to make what I've
learned into analytics that aregoing to make sense and then
communicate.
So when I was a juniorresearcher, I'd say research
methods were very, very key forme to know how to have and
(27:59):
communication skills.
Now I'm learning that one ofthe main differences, one of the
main things that I have tonavigate as a senior researcher,
is I have to have a really,really good understanding of the
business and the strategyBecause, like I begin the year
(28:19):
and there are no researchquestions, there is nothing, and
I have to figure that outmyself.
And so understanding where thebusiness wants to go in general
for the year is my first step,and then understanding how my
various teams need to worktoward that business goal is
really important.
And then I have to come up withresearch questions multiple of
(28:40):
them and then begin to decide ofthese research questions which
one is more important right now.
So my work has become, yes, alot more strategic, and that is
what I find very exciting.
And now I feel like I have alot more control of my research
because I have an understandingof even a man research question
(29:00):
Right now, if I do this one, itwill go here and here and here
and then the other.
It's like I think strategicresearch is a lot of connecting
dots between a lot of variousthings, and that's something
that I didn't have as a juniorresearcher.
I've recently been working on astudy that from the outside it
looks like it was a user problemfor just one team, but the more
(29:22):
I've talked to users I haverealized that, oh, this is a
problem on a whole othersolution by the same company,
but that team doesn't even thinkthey need UX research.
And so I've had to learn how tobring that team in, to reel them
in and begin to haveconversations, and I'm like hi,
my name is.
They don't even know me, butI'm here to tell them how to run
(29:44):
their product.
So it's very, yeah, strategy.
I've had to become a lot moretactical with my communication.
I have had to understand thestrategy a lot more and
sometimes I find insights, andthe insights I've found are
going to be used by a verydifferent team and I have to
learn how to communicate withthat team and bring it into the
(30:04):
whole tool.
So the main difference has beenstrategy and learning how to
communicate in a way that'sgoing to not alienate people.
Well, in my junior role, I justneeded an understanding of the
basics of research and that youlearn with time, that you learn
with time.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
But that's the main difference for me and that you
learn with time, that you learnwith time, but that's the main
difference for me.
Yeah, that tracks to what Ibelieve to be true as well.
I moved from a junior to asenior in about a year and eight
months and I feel like it's thesame thing.
You know, just knowing thebasics, getting the methods down
, versus now just being moretied into understanding the
(30:41):
business.
Knowing the strategy is nowjust being more tied into
understanding the business,knowing the strategy, and really
the more projects you do andthe more type of diverse methods
you use, the more you begin tokind of connect those dots and
see trends across differentprojects and different work
streams and things like that.
So definitely that's where thestrategy comes in, and I also
feel like that's the mostexciting part as well, because
you start to just bringeverything together and just see
(31:03):
, like, okay, from the eagle eyeview, you know, this is how we
can improve the business as awhole as opposed to just you
know, working on one project,looking at one project at a time
yeah, I've been wanting tostart to do this thing very
proactively of being like everyafter three uh, to four research
projects.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
I want to make a roundup of like the birds, you
know, like what have I learned?
Not necessarily from thespecific insights, but about
this business, this project?
Yeah, and like every afterthree research projects, I bring
my team together and I'm likewhat have we learned about this
place in general from thesethree research projects?
What needs to change from allthe different angles?
(31:42):
Do we have a good recruitmentpartner?
Even so, it's been having myhands in so many different
places and just being like okay,so the research partner we have
here isn't being helpful interms of recruitment, so we
might need somebody else.
There is this team that Ihaven't been supporting, so I
think I need to support them nowbecause we have been finding
learning XYZ that are connectedto them.
(32:05):
It's been a lot of dotconnecting and conversations and
, you're right, it's veryexciting, but it's something
that you learn with time, withthe more research that you do.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
I really like the idea about doing that UX
research roundup after everythree or four projects and I
feel like that would also beuseful to be able to share out
to teams who maybe don't buyinto the UX research as much,
just to show them what'shappening in this space, what
has been going on with theresearch, you know.
I think it's important to sharethat with the organization and
(32:35):
not just the small teams thatyou work with.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Yes, yeah, strategy, yeah so yeah, strategy, exactly
so.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Yeah, I mean, wow, I learned so much from you today.
I'm so excited that I got achance to talk to you.
The last question I want to askyou is I know you gave a lot of
little tidbits and advice foreducators, but if there's one
message that you could send toeducators or folks who are just,
you know, in the educationspace and trying to transition
into X design, x, research, whatwould that message be?
Space and trying to transitioninto X design X research.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
What would that message be?
I feel like I've said thisquite a few times and maybe I'm
just projecting, but, like, youhave the skills, you have the
skills that you need and focuson trying to figure out how to
translate those skills in thelanguage that's understandable
by product managers and peoplein tech that you want to reel in
(33:25):
.
But you have the skills thatyou need.
I think we get very stuck onthe fact that we're not in this
space.
We don't have the skills Ithink we need to focus on, on
asking ourselves when I open mymouth to talk about myself, what
do I say?
And literally, if you need to,I had somebody who would tell me
get a mirror and like, like,recite things in front of it
(33:48):
that most uncomfortable thing inthis world.
I'm not saying, do that, butI'm saying think about the work
that you've been doing and nowask yourself, if I was to make
this into a case study, how do Ido that?
If I was going to tell a storyabout how there was this problem
and we end up solving it inthis way, as researchers, we are
(34:08):
problem solvers and as ateacher in the classroom, as a
person who works with studentsevery day.
You are a problem solver.
Now you're being asked to putthose problems into cases, and
that cannot be easy, and sofocus on what you already have
and think about ways of makingit translate.
That's my first thing, and thenthe second thing as you do that,
(34:28):
also find ways of gainingexperience that applies in the
space that you're scared of,such that you have that balance
and that sometimes looks likeyou reaching out to startups in
your area and just being like Isee you have this problem.
I want to help you solve it.
If you can do it for free andgain skills, do that, but find
(34:50):
ways of balancing the fact thatyou have skills, so find ways of
translating them and thenacquire new skills at the same
time.
Talking to people is such agood way to do that, because you
begin to realize I'm not sodifferent from the people who
are already doing these rolesthat I want to get into, so
that's been a very good way ofme being able to now choose and
(35:13):
pick what is nice from differentpeople and put it in my own
portfolio, while also learningnew skills.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
Yeah, Great advice I love that.
Hilda, it was so great to haveyou on the show today and to
learn about your careertransition and your day-to-day
work, and I just feel theexcitement and the energy that
you have around UX research, sothank you for that.
And how can people reach out toyou if they want to connect?
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Of course, I love UX research and I love to feel
about it, so I'd be so happy totalk to people.
I'm on linkedin at hildanalanga, and I am also happy to
share my email address if that'ssomething that people would
like to take advantage of.
But I'm I'm very, very excitedto talk to people.
I know that for myself.
I wouldn't be in this place ifsomebody did not pick up the
(35:58):
call or somebody did not respondto me when I texted.
I was listening to people onpodcasts and then reaching out
to them and being like I heardyou talk about research.
Please talk to me, like, please, please, yeah, and that one
person who responded helped meso much, and so I love doing
this work.
I'm so excited about it, and sopeople should never reach out
to me on LinkedIn.
I'm at Hilda Nalanda.
(36:19):
I yeah, I'd love to have thisconversation to help in any way
that I can.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
Okay, great.
I'll drop that in the shownotes and thanks again for being
on the show today and we willdefinitely talk again soon.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
Hey, thanks so much for tuning in.
If you like this podcast, hit,follow and scroll down to leave
a five-star rating.
Then share it with a friend.
If you're looking for resourcesto help you on your tech
transition journey, head over touxteacherprepcom.
Follow us on LinkedIn andInstagram at uxteacherprep for
daily tips and motivation.
(36:56):
Have a topic you'd like to hearaddressed on the show?
Send us a DM on Instagram.
If you're listening on YouTube,like, subscribe and share.
Until next time, be well.
Welcome to the UX Teacher Prep Podcast, the
ultimate destination foreducators who aspire to break
into the field of userexperience and product design.
Your host, zee Arnold, a15-year teacher turned UX
researcher, is here to guide,coach and mentor you through
every twist and turn as you makeyour career transition into
tech.
If you're ready for a moresatisfying career and lifestyle
(00:22):
and you want the balance tounleash your creativity, this
podcast is for you.
Now for the show.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Hello friends, welcome to Season 2 of the UX
Teacher Prep Podcast.
We have lots of excitinginterviews and episodes coming
your way.
Before we get into the show, Iwant to shout out a listener who
sent me some fan mail on thelast episode of season one.
Hey, marcella, from New Jersey,I hear you've been loving the
podcast so far and you recentlygot your master's in UX design,
(00:59):
so congratulations.
Go ahead and connect with me onLinkedIn and I'll send over the
Slack information you requested.
Thank you so much for listeningto the show.
Today I'm bringing you aninterview with Hilda Naluanga, a
senior UX researcher at Ixola,a video game company.
Hilda stumbled into UX researchrather organically after
starting her career right out ofcollege as an early career
(01:21):
counselor at a high school inSouth Africa.
She then decided to get aMaster of Education in Learning
Design Innovation.
Her first job in UX researchwas at Meta and she recently
transitioned into a senior UXresearch position in the video
game industry.
Outside of work, she loves toread, write, do jigsaw puzzles
and grow indoor plants.
In this interview, we talkabout her experience working on
(01:44):
a well-established UXR teamversus a small startup and the
benefits of both, and thedifference between a junior UX
researcher and a senior UXresearcher, and so much more.
She also gives some reallysolid advice for transitioning
out of the classroom and theeducation space.
I learned so much from Hilda andI hope you will too.
Let's listen, all right, hilda,it's so great to have you on
(02:06):
the show today.
How are you?
I'm good.
How are you doing, zee?
I'm good, thank you.
So I'm super excited for you tobe here today because, like me,
you came from the educationspace and found your way to UX
research, so let's start bytelling everyone a bit about who
you are.
Yeah, so let's start by tellingeveryone a bit about who you
are.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yeah, my name is Hilda.
I am a UX researcher, currentlya master UX researcher at Exola
, which is a video gamedevelopment and payments company
.
I started my career out as acareer development coach, slash
associate.
I was introduced to designthinking a bit while in college,
(02:43):
but I didn't really get verydeep into it.
But I was always in the spaceof learning and making learning
accessible to people of allkinds of backgrounds, and so
after my undergrad I moved toJohannesburg to work at this
high school, the AfricanLeadership Academy Academy, and
(03:08):
while there I was supposed to besupporting mostly low-income
first-gen students who were in,who were leaving high school for
colleges, to help them figureout their careers and like find
jobs.
So that means I was alsoworking with different companies
that were looking for, you know, like early career employees in
different spaces, and there isthis blanket idea that with like
(03:28):
the job search, if you have agood resume, you're going to be
okay and that's what matters.
But the more I began to talk tomy students, I realized that
everyone was different and thatthere were so many different
powers at play given like,depending on the student,
because I had students who weregoing to like very, very high
(03:49):
resourced schools like Stanford,but also students who were in
universities in Uganda wherethey didn't even have a career
center and we had a blanket, youknow, like everything fits
everyone type of serviceoffering, and I began to be like
this doesn't seem like it'sworking.
I looked at the data and wewere clearly mostly supporting
(04:10):
students who already had a lotof resources and they would be
okay even without us, and so Igot really obsessed with the
data and I was like, okay, itlooks like this is who we are
helping.
This is what we want to do.
We are not really supportingthis group.
How do we feel about that?
My manager at the time she wasreally just like supportive.
(04:32):
She was like I think that's athing, I think that's called
research and it exists in a lotof different spaces.
It seems like something thatjust like comes naturally to you
.
You're always very curiousabout who exactly you're trying
to work with to make sure thatyou're doing something that's
(04:52):
going to be helpful for them.
Yeah, so that's where mycuriosity started.
So I did the job for threeyears and when I began to put
that very, very just likehuman-centered approach to my
career offering, I began toenjoy my job a lot more, and
even the data began to show thatwe actually were speaking to
students.
It was so fascinating.
So, after three years, I wantedto explore this space further,
(05:13):
so I left Johannesburg, cameback to the United States and
went to grad school.
I did a master's in learning,design, innovation and
technology, which is a spacethat brings together learning
and UX very well.
So it was from that master'sprogram that I then pivoted into
tech.
My first role in UX research wasat Meta, which I interestingly
(05:36):
learned because when I came backto grad school, I was really
trying to learn about this spaceand I knew that I needed so
many skills that I did not knowhow to explain before.
So I was doing everything tosee that I can learn about this
space.
And I knew that I needed somany skills that I did not know
how to explain before.
So I was doing everything tosee that I can learn about this
space.
I was listening to podcasts, Iwas talking to different kinds
of people and I actually wasreaching out to people who were
(05:58):
on on podcasts that I was like,this person sounds kind of
friendly.
And I reached out to them andjust be like oh, my name is
Hilda, I want to get into UXresearch from the education
space.
How do I do it?
Yeah, and that's how I ended uphere.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Oh, wow, wow, Interesting.
So you were reaching out topeople who had podcasts and just
asking you know, how do I getinto that space of UX research
education?
Wow, it's interesting.
You said a lot about yourjourney and how you kind of
started off before you got toZola as a senior UX researcher.
So you were working as a highschool early career counselor,
right, yes, that's veryinteresting because you were in
(06:35):
the school space but you weren'tnecessarily a teacher.
That's really cool, you knowworking with students and just
seeing those connections.
Can you tell us a little bitabout what your day-to-day looks
like in your role as a seniorUX researcher?
Speaker 2 (06:48):
So I'm currently supporting two teams and I'm
supporting the payments team.
My day-to-day is very much.
I work with product owners.
I understand exactly what theyare working on during the year,
and then I begin to look intothat to be like okay, so then
(07:08):
what questions need to beanswered for you to do your job
well?
So that happened earlier in theyear, and so at the beginning
of the year, I spent a lot oftime talking to product owners
to understand the productroadmap so that I can begin
thinking about what questionsneed to be answered and in what
timelines for them to do theirjob well.
And I do that with all theproduct owners that I'm working
(07:30):
with, sometimes two, sometimesthree.
And then after that, and duringthat time too, you meet product
owners who don't know anythingabout research or those who
don't think they need it.
So it's a mix of being likeokay, so these are your research
needs and this is what UXresearch is.
So a mix of research,evangelizing and also
(07:53):
understanding the needs of theteams that I'm working with, and
then I create a researchroadmap and then I begin on the
research.
So I'm always working on abouttwo to three projects at the
same time and they are all indifferent stages of them, like
currently, I am analyzing aproject that I recently finished
(08:14):
fielding for yesterday, whilealso in the second stage of a
design sprint for a researchproject that I presented a
readout for two weeks ago.
So I'm always running variousprojects at the same time in
different stages, while alsoscoping new projects and making
sure that my team feelssupported.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Yeah, so doing the work of a UX researcher includes
, you know, educating others andteaching them what the process
is like and what UX research isall about.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Yes, you'd be so surprised because my first
official role was with Meta andyou'd think that for a company
that big with resources likethat, with 6,000 UX researchers,
everybody would understandresearch and you wouldn't have
to do any evangelizing.
And even there that wasn'tnecessarily the case and not
necessarily that even there thatwasn't necessarily the case and
(09:04):
not necessarily that evenpeople there don't understand
research.
But sometimes you talk to aproduct owner and what they want
is for you to validate somethings that they've already
assumed to be to under andalready working on.
And sometimes, like with mycurrent job, sometimes it's
teams that are like, oh, becauseI do, xyz, I don't need any
(09:25):
kind of research, and I'm like,huh, I actually don't think so.
I think I realized that a really, really key part of being a UX
researcher that I did notunderstand fully before I
started doing my job wasgenuinely relationship building,
and I feel like all of thisfalls under that, because even
being able to evangelizeresearch and teach somebody
(09:46):
about why they need research orwhat kind of research they need,
you need to be in their goodgraces.
It's so interesting.
Um, you need, you need to be intheir good graces.
You need to make sure that youguys, you understand each other
and you're going to be able tolisten to each other, and then
you bring different parts of ittogether.
So it's a lot of talking topeople, evangelizing research,
(10:08):
but also making sure that,because once you talk to people
and understand each other verywell, then there's a chance that
your findings will beimplemented, and you want that.
So, yeah, it's a lot ofcommunication, a lot of
relationship building, which wasvery much the case in career
development work, because ifyou're going to support students
(10:29):
, you need to be able to supportthose students' needs and you
need to understand the studentsvery well, and if you don't
understand them, then you're notgoing to be able to support
them appropriately, support themappropriately.
So that relationship buildingpiece was a very key piece that
I think moved over I guess veryseamlessly, from the work I was
(10:52):
doing prior to joining UxResearch to what I'm doing right
now.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
So it sounds like, when you think about the
connections between what youwere doing with the high school
students, basically knowing youraudience and relationship
building, was key for you inthat transition.
Yes, I wanted to ask also withyour current role is it remote
or is it a hybrid?
Or is it in person?
It's fully remote, fully remote.
(11:17):
Wow.
How do you feel about work-lifebalance with this role as a
senior UX researcher?
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Yeah, so most of my team is in Europe and so the
time zone, yeah, they're in avery different time zone.
To begin with, most of my teamis in Russia and Poland and our
time zones are almost lit andsometimes I have meetings going
on at I'm not even kidding like2am, 3am.
(11:43):
I have had to learn to be like.
If meeting at 2am, is itcrucial for me to be there?
Most times the answer is no, soI've had to make a boundary for
myself and say what's thelatest I'm going to allow myself
to be on calls, and my earliesthas been 7 am.
(12:04):
7 am, okay Early.
Sometimes I make it 5 am, but 7am Unless like.
So sometimes I have calls, likewhen we have design sprints.
Most of my team is in Russia, soI have to.
If that's the case, then I'llput a meeting at 5 am and then
I'll begin my day at 6.
(12:24):
And by meeting at 5am and thenI'll begin my day at 6 and by
like 2pm, I'm done with my day.
I'm trying to be very aware ofthat giving and knowing that I
have to live my life and that isvery important.
So I'm like, if I begin my dayat 5, I'll be done at 3, and
then I'll I'll take a walk, thenI will read something, then
I'll call my friends.
Yeah, but my days tend to begina lot earlier than normal jobs
(12:44):
just because of where my team is, but even with that, I try to
make it such that.
So then that doesn't mean thatI'm working from 5 pm to 5 pm as
well, and my team has been.
I think that's something thatI'm so grateful for.
My team is very aware thathuman beings come to work and
that these jobs are important,but so it's our health and
well-being, and my manager isalways like oh, you need to take
(13:05):
time off or you need to rest.
You need to make sure thatyou're.
If you're beginning your day at2 am, you're also ending it so
now, or you're taking breaks andactually taking naps.
So I'm very grateful for thatto be my case.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Yeah, it's great that you have that flexibility to
kind of make your hours work forthe.
I know you're in central timeright in Chicago.
Yes, yeah, to make your hourswork for everyone that you have
to have meetings with throughoutthe day, so that is really cool
.
I'm also a remote worker so Iknow that we have different time
zones, but we're mostly here inthe US, so that was interesting
(13:39):
.
Now you talked about basicallyadvocating for research on your
team, whether it was, you know,on a large team like Meta, or
even on a smaller team at Zola.
So I wanted to talk about justI had this idea about, you know,
working for large companiesversus small companies, startups
versus more established youknow, ux research, established
(14:03):
UX research.
So can you talk to me about,maybe, the differences between
that and how you feel about it?
Because a lot of teachers askme should I go to a startup?
Is that going to be too much,or should I go to a more
well-established place, justtransitioning from teaching to
UX research?
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Yeah, that's a really good question.
I think one of the things thatI really was so grateful for
about working at a very bigcompany at the time that I did
is, first of all, I was a babyresearcher.
My actual UX, ux researchprojects that I had done I had
done in grad school.
(14:33):
Right Before that.
The work I was doing was verylearner-centered, but it was not
in tech, so there was a lot oftransition that I had not
learned how to do yet.
And joining a team that was bigand I joined a team that had, I
think, at least fiveresearchers on just that one
(14:55):
team.
That meant that there were somany different people who were
actually passionate aboutresearch and they were already
doing work.
So, as a person who was justlearning, that was actually very
, very helpful.
I know there's a lot of otherpressures that come from working
in like man that kind of thing,but also just having a team
that I could actually learn from.
(15:16):
There are so many projects thathad been done.
So even when I get a projectlike oh go, work on this
literature review, there are somany literature reviews from
very similar work for me to lookat and then get a place where
to start, and I had other UXresearchers that I could reach
out to when I'm beginning tosculpt a project to see if they
have done similar work and talkto them and get advice on
(15:38):
research methods.
That, as a person who was justlearning in the space, I
appreciated that very much.
One of the researchers on myteam is now my mentor and is the
person who connected us in yourlife.
Yeah, yeah, because I was stillnew to the space and I was
still trying to learn.
On the other hand, now that I'mworking at a company where the
(16:01):
research team is still very newand big, I'm one of the
inaugural researchers in thecompany.
When you are in that space, youare the person who knows
everything and you're the personeverybody comes to because
there is no one else.
So I have needed to amp up myconfidence on this team because
(16:23):
I'm the person everyone comes toand even when I don't know the
things, I have to find ways oflearning the answers to those
things, because I have no oneelse on the team with the
knowledge that will help me inthose ways.
But that also means that I havebeen able to stretch myself in
so many ways.
But that also means that I havebeen able to stretch myself in
(16:44):
so many ways.
I think we have this theory thatpeople who are doing their jobs
have already known how to dothem and they are doing them.
So it's just us who are maybestruggling sometimes.
But no one knows everything,and being in a very startup-y,
uxr type of space has taught meoh my God, I can actually learn
anything.
When I was at Meta, if therewere design sprints, I had other
(17:06):
researchers to support me onthose.
I'm currently running a designsprint and I'm the first person
to do everything.
But there is so many resourceseverywhere, so I have learned to
learn to do a lot of thingsthat I could easily get help
with.
So there is that.
But it means that I have grownso much more as a researcher
because the need is so muchgreater here, and I'm so
(17:28):
grateful for that.
So I have learned that atdifferent times in my career I
have had to choose what is mypriority right now.
Do I want financial stability?
That's a real thing.
So then, how does that workwith startups versus established
companies?
Do I have the skills I need tostand on my own right now, like,
what do I want to focus onright now?
(17:49):
And then that determines whereI want to go?
But you will find similarproblems in similar spaces and
you get to flex differentmuscles and then, depending on
the space you're in, I I wouldsay I have talked to other
researchers who began in smallercompanies and now they work for
like chefs and even them.
It's just been like, oh my God,it's the same issues.
(18:11):
It's just that you have to dealwith them differently depending
on the context that you're in.
So I would say A you have theskills because you're a teacher,
because you're in the educationspace, you're used to being
scrappy and working with people,so you have the skills
technically to work in a startupor in a big organization.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
I think it's a matter of figuring out your priorities
and seeing what you want to payattention to the most in the
first place and then going withthat, yeah, being scrappy, and
it sounds like same skill setbut applying it in a different
way, and I feel like it soundslike you're saying that, no
matter which way you go, you'llbe able to use your kind of like
(18:48):
teacher skill set.
Yes, I think to manage.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Yeah, I think for me, one of the really hard things
about making the transition wasbeing able to talk about my
experiences in ways that madesense in the technical world.
So it's not even like, oh, do Ihave the skills to be in a
startup?
Versus.
It's just, how do I translatemy skills?
Because, at least for me, whenI was in the education space, I
(19:15):
was very sure that my skillswere not transferable and that I
had nothing to bring to anyoneoutside of the education space.
And then I began talking topeople and then I realized, oh,
we just call things verydifferently.
Who somebody else calls aproduct owner, you will call
them something else.
In the NGO space, for instance,which is I was an education, not
(19:36):
NGO type setting and being ableto translate the work I was
doing and the jargon wasactually such a big deal,
because you want to soundconfident, you want to sound
like you know what you'retalking about, and if you don't
fully trust or believe inyourself, that is going to show.
(19:57):
Once I was able to make thatconnection which was actually
like when I was, when I was ableto make that connection which
was actually like when I wasworking on my portfolio
Portfolios.
I hate my portfolio so muchit's like pulling teeth, but it
was such an exercise in melearning to talk about my work,
because you have the same storybut you have to talk about it
(20:19):
from very different angles overand over and over again until
you are convinced by it, untilit makes sense, and then, once
you do that, then you're able tobring it to somebody else.
That, for me, was really,really difficult, and so I had a
lot of help in terms of peoplewho I was like.
Okay, let me pitch to you who Iam as a UX researcher.
(20:40):
Let me show you my portfolio sothat you can help me figure out
.
What am I still missing?
What connection am I still notmaking between the work I was
doing and the work I was doingright now?
And I wanted to make it veryclear that I'm not a UX
researcher, despite the factthat I was in education before,
but it's that background thatmakes me a strong researcher,
and here's how, and so I wasable to make that connection.
(21:03):
It was like it didn't matterwhich kind of space I'm in.
I could do it, but thatconnection is yeah, that was
really hard for me to do.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
Yeah, yeah, when you talked about the jargon, it
reminded me of my first days, myfirst months as a UX researcher
, when I came into the ed techspace from teaching and I knew
what I wanted to say, but Ididn't have the right UX
research words, so to speak, toreally explain what I was trying
to say and I just found myselfgrabbing in the air to find the
(21:34):
right words.
And now I actually know thejargon and things like that and
it's much easier, but in thebeginning it was just like what
is the word that they use forthis, right?
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Yes, yes, no one talks about how, just like
language itself, it can be soinaccessible and it can make you
feel like I don't know anything, I don't belong in this space,
and it's okay.
It's not just you.
It's very difficult, and solook for the support that you
need and focus on it, becauseyou are not wrong to think it's
not just you.
It's very difficult, and solook for the support that you
(22:04):
need and focus on it, becauseit's like you are not wrong to
think it's giving you a hardtime.
It is not because of you, it'sbecause it's actually.
I feel like sometimes that it'smeant to already do that get
keepy thing, and so you have tokeep trying.
You have to talk to people andyou have to learn ways of
translating yourself, becauseyou have the skills.
I think that's the first thing.
Many need to know that I havethe skills.
(22:26):
I just don't know yet how theyapply in this world.
That was still a mysteriousarea to me, or something that I
really felt like I wanted, but Idid not belong in.
Yeah, and figuring that outhelped me so much.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
Yeah, that's a good message for transitioning
teachers, because when we're inthe space of teaching, we just
don't think that we can doanything else.
And there's so much more thatwe can do, so there's so many
different career paths we cantake.
So that's important to doingthe high school early career
counselor role for three years.
(23:05):
So how long did it take you toactually transition into UX
research once you decided that'swhat you wanted to do?
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Yeah, so I did that for three years and then I came
back to grad school and when Icame back to grad school, I made
it very clear that I wanted totransition into UX research.
So I spent, I would say, thegrad school year was the year
that I began my transition,because while I was taking
classes, I was also doinginternships with my professors
(23:34):
and I was able to take classesin which we're actually getting
to consult with organizations.
So, for instance, one of myclasses I got to consult with
Sesame.
So, for instance, one of myclasses I got to consult with
Sesame Street and PBS Kids abouttheir websites and their
content for kids and how parentsare receiving their content,
and that I got to do for free ingrad school.
(23:56):
So those are the projects of myportfolio in addition to some
of my education work.
But I did this project and Ibegan to work on a portfolio
with that.
So I was like, okay, so I hadone project from my education
work that I was trying to figureout the language for, and then
I was like, if I then do oneactual UXR project, I can mix
(24:19):
and match these ones togetherand I can always talk about them
.
So then I was actively trying tolearn how to market my skills
while also acquiring more, so Iwould say, I began the
transition in grad school andactually like learning skills,
while also learning how to talkabout the ones I had, and I
began to interview veryproactively, even when I did not
(24:41):
necessarily have real UXexperience with my belt quote,
unquote.
And, like I said, I decided tofocus on how I talk about myself
because I did not have the time.
I did not have the time to waituntil I have all the skills
that I needed, so I was like Ineed to go out of my way of
using what I have right now.
So I would say it was the yearof grad school and then, after
(25:03):
that one year, I started my roleat Meta.
So it was a one-year transitionprocess, but it was very
aggressive.
I was calling people, I wasapplying to a lot.
It was also the year when thelayoffs started in the tech
(25:25):
space.
That was a lot.
That was a lot of moving parts,but I think the transition was
a mix of me learning new skillsand me learning how to talk
about the skills that I had andI don't think I can stress that
bit enough and so, within oneyear, I was able to land my
first role and I feel like evenin my first role, I was learning
(25:46):
how to talk about myself how totalk about myself as well, also
developing new ones.
I feel like I'm still doingthat right now.
This is officially my thirdyear in UX research and I feel
like I'm still learning to talkapart myself.
I'm still learning new skills,yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Yeah, yeah, I like what you said.
I feel like even as teachers,when we work with students, we
teach them how to advocate forthemselves and talk about
themselves and things like that,and then we find ourselves in
the same situation where we haveto do the same for ourselves
and for our advancement.
So it kind of mirrors what wedo in the classroom.
Yes, yeah, so you started offas a UX researcher and then you
(26:29):
became a senior UX researcher.
So let's talk a little bitabout the difference in your
eyes between a junior and asenior.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Yeah, I love that question very much because I
think as a junior UX researchermuch.
Because I think as a junior UXresearcher, one of the main
differences that I saw and Ithink the disclaimer is that
also this might have beenbecause I was at a very big
organization.
I was on a research team and Iwas, in a way, supporting other
(26:55):
researchers a lot and sometimesI had research questions come to
my table where it was like hereis a question and here is the
method, now go do the researchright.
And so in that way, a lot oftimes I didn't have the full
business goal in view and I wasworking with somebody else who
(27:15):
knew the field businessunderstanding, like you said, of
the business very much and Iwas just focusing on trying to
answer this question.
And so when I was a juniorresearcher, knowing research
methods was very important andknowing how to execute on them
was really key.
So, I had to know how to make adiscussion guide.
(27:36):
I had to know when I'm going tointerview versus do a survey,
versus do some other thing, andthen I would go in the field, do
the research and then I had toknow how to make what I've
learned into analytics that aregoing to make sense and then
communicate.
So when I was a juniorresearcher, I'd say research
methods were very, very key forme to know how to have and
(27:59):
communication skills.
Now I'm learning that one ofthe main differences, one of the
main things that I have tonavigate as a senior researcher,
is I have to have a really,really good understanding of the
business and the strategyBecause, like I begin the year
(28:19):
and there are no researchquestions, there is nothing, and
I have to figure that outmyself.
And so understanding where thebusiness wants to go in general
for the year is my first step,and then understanding how my
various teams need to worktoward that business goal is
really important.
And then I have to come up withresearch questions multiple of
(28:40):
them and then begin to decide ofthese research questions which
one is more important right now.
So my work has become, yes, alot more strategic, and that is
what I find very exciting.
And now I feel like I have alot more control of my research
because I have an understandingof even a man research question
(29:00):
Right now, if I do this one, itwill go here and here and here
and then the other.
It's like I think strategicresearch is a lot of connecting
dots between a lot of variousthings, and that's something
that I didn't have as a juniorresearcher.
I've recently been working on astudy that from the outside it
looks like it was a user problemfor just one team, but the more
(29:22):
I've talked to users I haverealized that, oh, this is a
problem on a whole othersolution by the same company,
but that team doesn't even thinkthey need UX research.
And so I've had to learn how tobring that team in, to reel them
in and begin to haveconversations, and I'm like hi,
my name is.
They don't even know me, butI'm here to tell them how to run
(29:44):
their product.
So it's very, yeah, strategy.
I've had to become a lot moretactical with my communication.
I have had to understand thestrategy a lot more and
sometimes I find insights, andthe insights I've found are
going to be used by a verydifferent team and I have to
learn how to communicate withthat team and bring it into the
(30:04):
whole tool.
So the main difference has beenstrategy and learning how to
communicate in a way that'sgoing to not alienate people.
Well, in my junior role, I justneeded an understanding of the
basics of research and that youlearn with time, that you learn
with time.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
But that's the main difference for me and that you
learn with time, that you learnwith time, but that's the main
difference for me.
Yeah, that tracks to what Ibelieve to be true as well.
I moved from a junior to asenior in about a year and eight
months and I feel like it's thesame thing.
You know, just knowing thebasics, getting the methods down
, versus now just being moretied into understanding the
(30:41):
business.
Knowing the strategy is nowjust being more tied into
understanding the business,knowing the strategy, and really
the more projects you do andthe more type of diverse methods
you use, the more you begin tokind of connect those dots and
see trends across differentprojects and different work
streams and things like that.
So definitely that's where thestrategy comes in, and I also
feel like that's the mostexciting part as well, because
you start to just bringeverything together and just see
(31:03):
, like, okay, from the eagle eyeview, you know, this is how we
can improve the business as awhole as opposed to just you
know, working on one project,looking at one project at a time
yeah, I've been wanting tostart to do this thing very
proactively of being like everyafter three uh, to four research
projects.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
I want to make a roundup of like the birds, you
know, like what have I learned?
Not necessarily from thespecific insights, but about
this business, this project?
Yeah, and like every afterthree research projects, I bring
my team together and I'm likewhat have we learned about this
place in general from thesethree research projects?
What needs to change from allthe different angles?
(31:42):
Do we have a good recruitmentpartner?
Even so, it's been having myhands in so many different
places and just being like okay,so the research partner we have
here isn't being helpful interms of recruitment, so we
might need somebody else.
There is this team that Ihaven't been supporting, so I
think I need to support them nowbecause we have been finding
learning XYZ that are connectedto them.
(32:05):
It's been a lot of dotconnecting and conversations and
, you're right, it's veryexciting, but it's something
that you learn with time, withthe more research that you do.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
I really like the idea about doing that UX
research roundup after everythree or four projects and I
feel like that would also beuseful to be able to share out
to teams who maybe don't buyinto the UX research as much,
just to show them what'shappening in this space, what
has been going on with theresearch, you know.
I think it's important to sharethat with the organization and
(32:35):
not just the small teams thatyou work with.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Yes, yeah, strategy, yeah so yeah, strategy, exactly
so.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Yeah, I mean, wow, I learned so much from you today.
I'm so excited that I got achance to talk to you.
The last question I want to askyou is I know you gave a lot of
little tidbits and advice foreducators, but if there's one
message that you could send toeducators or folks who are just,
you know, in the educationspace and trying to transition
into X design, x, research, whatwould that message be?
Space and trying to transitioninto X design X research.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
What would that message be?
I feel like I've said thisquite a few times and maybe I'm
just projecting, but, like, youhave the skills, you have the
skills that you need and focuson trying to figure out how to
translate those skills in thelanguage that's understandable
by product managers and peoplein tech that you want to reel in
(33:25):
.
But you have the skills thatyou need.
I think we get very stuck onthe fact that we're not in this
space.
We don't have the skills Ithink we need to focus on, on
asking ourselves when I open mymouth to talk about myself, what
do I say?
And literally, if you need to,I had somebody who would tell me
get a mirror and like, like,recite things in front of it
(33:48):
that most uncomfortable thing inthis world.
I'm not saying, do that, butI'm saying think about the work
that you've been doing and nowask yourself, if I was to make
this into a case study, how do Ido that?
If I was going to tell a storyabout how there was this problem
and we end up solving it inthis way, as researchers, we are
(34:08):
problem solvers and as ateacher in the classroom, as a
person who works with studentsevery day.
You are a problem solver.
Now you're being asked to putthose problems into cases, and
that cannot be easy, and sofocus on what you already have
and think about ways of makingit translate.
That's my first thing, and thenthe second thing as you do that,
(34:28):
also find ways of gainingexperience that applies in the
space that you're scared of,such that you have that balance
and that sometimes looks likeyou reaching out to startups in
your area and just being like Isee you have this problem.
I want to help you solve it.
If you can do it for free andgain skills, do that, but find
(34:50):
ways of balancing the fact thatyou have skills, so find ways of
translating them and thenacquire new skills at the same
time.
Talking to people is such agood way to do that, because you
begin to realize I'm not sodifferent from the people who
are already doing these rolesthat I want to get into, so
that's been a very good way ofme being able to now choose and
(35:13):
pick what is nice from differentpeople and put it in my own
portfolio, while also learningnew skills.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
Yeah, Great advice I love that.
Hilda, it was so great to haveyou on the show today and to
learn about your careertransition and your day-to-day
work, and I just feel theexcitement and the energy that
you have around UX research, sothank you for that.
And how can people reach out toyou if they want to connect?
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Of course, I love UX research and I love to feel
about it, so I'd be so happy totalk to people.
I'm on linkedin at hildanalanga, and I am also happy to
share my email address if that'ssomething that people would
like to take advantage of.
But I'm I'm very, very excitedto talk to people.
I know that for myself.
I wouldn't be in this place ifsomebody did not pick up the
(35:58):
call or somebody did not respondto me when I texted.
I was listening to people onpodcasts and then reaching out
to them and being like I heardyou talk about research.
Please talk to me, like, please, please, yeah, and that one
person who responded helped meso much, and so I love doing
this work.
I'm so excited about it, and sopeople should never reach out
to me on LinkedIn.
I'm at Hilda Nalanda.
(36:19):
I yeah, I'd love to have thisconversation to help in any way
that I can.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
Okay, great.
I'll drop that in the shownotes and thanks again for being
on the show today and we willdefinitely talk again soon.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
Hey, thanks so much for tuning in.
If you like this podcast, hit,follow and scroll down to leave
a five-star rating.
Then share it with a friend.
If you're looking for resourcesto help you on your tech
transition journey, head over touxteacherprepcom.
Follow us on LinkedIn andInstagram at uxteacherprep for
daily tips and motivation.
(36:56):
Have a topic you'd like to hearaddressed on the show?
Send us a DM on Instagram.
If you're listening on YouTube,like, subscribe and share.
Until next time, be well.
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