September 17, 2024 • 32 mins
Learn about the secrets of a successful career transition as I chat with Shaine Frazier, a former New York City Special Education Teacher turned UX and Customer Experience Design expert. Shane shares his journey from classroom discontent to his thriving new role in tech, including the pivotal moments of self-study, LinkedIn networking, and professional certifications that made it all possible. With a background rich in psychology, web design, and entrepreneurship, Shaine reveals how these skills formed the foundation for his career pivot, and how his experience with neurodivergent students parallels UX research. He also shares the significant boost in work-life balance his new role offers.
Don't miss this inspiring episode filled with practical advice for anyone considering a leap from education to the tech world.
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Get in touch with Shaine: Instagram s.d.fraizer and LI: at Shaine Frazier.
Get in touch with Maleeka Catlin on Linkedin.
Bio:
Shaine Fraizer was born and raised in the Bronx. He is former Special Education Teacher with a unique journey from education to web design, to user experience design, cumulating in his current role as a Digital Customer Experience (CX) Manager.
Shaine studied psychology at New York Tech, where he gained early teaching experience as a program facilitator with Changing the Odds, mentoring teens on mental health and positive sexual behavior. This sparked his passion for education.
After earning his degree, Shaine pursued Educational Psychology at Columbia University's Teachers College but soon joined the NYC Teaching Fellows, serving Bronx students for five years. During this time, he ventured into web design, creating platforms for his own short-term rental business and an e-commerce company, Science.Teacher.Mom.
His growing interest in UX design led him to complete Google’s Professional UX Design Certification on Coursera. Combining this knowledge with his web design experience, Shaine secured a role as Digital Customer Experience Manager at AIG.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Narrator (00:01):
Welcome to the UX Teacher Prep Podcast, the
ultimate destination foreducators who aspire to break
into the field of userexperience and product design.
Your host, zee Arnold, a15-year teacher turned UX
researcher, is here to guide,coach and mentor you through
every twist and turn as you makeyour career transition into
tech.
If you're ready for a moresatisfying career and lifestyle
(00:23):
and you want the balance tounleash your creativity, this
podcast is for you.
Now for the show.
Zee (00:42):
Hello and welcome to the show.
Today I'm bringing you aspecial interview with Shane
Frazier.
He's a former New York Cityspecial education teacher with a
unique journey from educationto web design to user experience
design, culminating in hiscurrent role as a digital
customer experience manager.
In today's episode, he talksabout his transition from the
(01:05):
classroom to corporate and theskills he leveraged from both
his teaching career and his sidehustles to land a manager
position in the user experienceand customer experience space.
You can read his full bio inthe show notes, but let's get
into this conversation.
Okay, Shane, it's so great tohave you on the show today.
I'm excited to talk to youbecause you are a former New
(01:26):
York City teacher like myself,and I just feel seen and heard
having this conversation withyou today.
How are you?
Shaine (01:33):
I'm doing well.
It's actually pretty, prettyawesome to find someone who
actually transitioned from theDOE successfully.
That's in the same field as meas well, so this is great.
Zee (01:44):
So we successfully.
That's in the same field as meas well, so this is great, yeah.
Shaine (01:51):
So, first of all, I wanted to ask how did you learn
about UX, teacher Prep and thepodcast?
So a couple of years ago I wantto say about 21, 22 school year
me and my wife were at leasttrying to start a family, and
during that time frame I didn'tenjoy the work I was doing
within my school.
I won't say they were degradingor anything like that, but it
(02:12):
was definitely.
Since I was a special educationteacher.
It was definitely that kind ofsecondhand you're not the
primary person in the classroomfeeling, as some of the teachers
or SPED teachers may tell youabout and I noticed my stature
within the classroom kind ofdiminish.
(02:33):
One thing that kind of kept megoing was I had a self-contained
class, which was great, butduring that year I noticed that
my love for teaching started towane and I started looking for
other opportunities.
I already had some sort of aside business as well, and I
decided like, hey, you know what, maybe I can pivot into
(02:55):
something that I've already beendoing.
And during that time I went onLinkedIn, gathered as much
information as possible about UXand I added everybody.
I added everybody that was inthe field and I saw you were in
the field I definitely added you.
(03:16):
I just wanted to know the fieldand know the terminology and
the methods used within it.
Terminology and the methodsused within it.
I kind of dove into Courseraand you know, doing a Google
professional certification in UX, so I took that year as a sign
that I want to pivot.
Let me go through LinkedIn andthen see what I can find there.
Zee (03:44):
Okay, interesting, that's good.
So a year of like teachingyourself and just immersing
yourself in the field andlearning from others that were
in UX.
Shaine (03:48):
Yes, absolutely.
Zee (03:50):
Yeah, sounds good.
So you were a high schoolspecial ed teacher, and so how
long were you in that teacherrole?
Five years, and so you juststarted.
Just, is there anything aboutUX that kind of like sparked
your attention, that made yousay, ok, this is something that
I want to do, so at first.
Shaine (04:07):
I won't lie, I wanted to continue my path with
psychology and as I, as I didmore research within the field,
I found that I mean because I somy side job at the time was I
had a short-term rental company,or I had a short-term rental
and I just made it into acompany to where, instead of
(04:29):
just renting out the space forguests, what we did was we
rented out the space film crewcome and do the short film there
.
So what I did was I created awebsite for myself and I
(04:51):
utilized my platform to kind ofdo some of that other work
within that.
So I had web design skills.
And then, when I did thatresearch to find out, hey, how
can I, how can I?
Looked at myself and said, hey,I come from psychology have web
design?
Where is the middle ground here, if I were to pivot?
(05:15):
And that's where I found UX andfound out about, hey, you're
really taking advantage oftailoring experiences for your
user or your end user.
And a light bulb went off andthat's how I kind of found out
like, oh, this is something thatis definitely attainable within
, at least within me, and Ifound that I was doing a lot of
(05:40):
UX research work, just being aspecial education teacher,
because you have to take allthat information and all the
curriculums that you do thereand translate it for
neurodivergent students.
That's your end user Right andso like.
From there, you have to utilizewhatever method you can think
(06:00):
of.
So you have to, kind of, youknow, do your research on the
back end method you can think of.
So you have to, kind of youknow, do your research on the
back end.
And that's how I really foundout about UX research and I
found out that I was actuallydoing that work already, right.
Zee (06:12):
Yeah, I speak to a lot of people that realize over time,
as they get into the whole UXand learning it, they realize
that, hey, I'm doing some ofthis work already in my teaching
role, like I'm doing a lot ofthis work.
Especially special ed teachers,they tend to really be just
doing that work of trying tocater to the user, figure out
what the user needs Exactly andstuff like that.
And then I love how you talkedabout your leveraging your
(06:33):
entrepreneurship skills, yourpsychology background, your web
design skills, because we dohave, you know, outside of
teaching, there's other thingsthat we love to do and we do in
our spare time and we have thoseskills and certainly we can
bring them into our next role aswe decide to pivot.
So that's really important.
I'm glad you mentioned that.
Shaine (06:50):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's something that I thinkevery I mean at this point,
unfortunately, having you know.
Obviously you keep your nine tofive, but having a side hustle
is paramount in society at thispoint paramount to society at
this point.
So it's like, yeah, if you canleverage that and pivot
(07:14):
utilizing some of those skills.
Zee (07:15):
that's awesome.
Yeah, and before we get intotalking about all the things
you've done in the UX space, howlong did it take you to
transition out of teaching intoUX, once you decided that you
wanted to make that change?
Shaine (07:24):
It took a while, I'm not going to lie, it took probably
a year and nine months, and I'llpreface that by saying during.
So at the end of the 22 schoolyear, we took a long vacation
once in Costa Rica and wecleared our mind because my wife
(07:45):
was pregnant at the time.
Um, when we got back I said,yeah, I can't go back.
Um, I can't go back to thatenvironment, and we were already
going to go and leave.
So we were just going toleverage this next year and 23
to kind of do a hard reset,especially for me, because I was
saying, saying no, I wasn'tgoing to go back at all to that
(08:06):
school.
I did apply to other schoolswithin the district but it just
it just wasn't.
The love wasn't there anymore.
And during leave, my wifeactually ended up finding a job
before I did okay and inoperations.
So she's an operations managerand she pivoted and that was
amazing and I was able to.
Her being successful, was ableto kind of alleviate any of the
(08:31):
fears of both of us not goingback because she came from.
Her school was a mess as well,and so I utilized that year to
one bond with my son and, yeah,I was like fantastic, but also
to kind of own my skills in ux,I ended up doing a couple of a
couple of projects.
I collaborated with someonefrom linkedin and we did a side
(08:54):
project, which was fantastic,and I utilized some of those
things and, like you, you know,plug them in my resume.
Now, obviously, that 2023 yearwas just a mess in the industry,
in the tech industry, honestly,massive layoffs, people who are
(09:15):
well-qualified, so I'm enteringa field that's already crowded.
I would say that that probablydidn't help.
You know, you know people fromGoogle applying to the same jobs
that I'm applying to.
So, but all in all I it.
The thing started to turn uptowards the end of the year and
I started getting a lot morebites and I was able to parlay a
(09:36):
lot of the information or a lotof the skills that I had my
just entrepreneurial backgroundand to the space where I am.
Zee (09:44):
I am now entrepreneurial background and to the space
where I am now.
Wow, that's amazing and I knowthat imposter syndrome and
people from Google and other youknow fan companies big
companies are also applying, soit's kind of intimidating you
know yeah.
But I always tell people tojust focus on yourself and what
you bring to the table.
Absolutely and that's superhelpful.
And one thing that I noticed asa trend with people that I talk
(10:04):
to on these interviews teachersis they have this moment of
reflection, whether it wasduring the pandemic or just a
time when they had time.
You know, because teachersthat's what teachers don't have
right, they don't have time onvacation.
You have that time to reflectand clear your head and you
start to realize you knowthere's more that I want to do,
(10:25):
there's a bigger impact that Iwant to have and I want to make
some changes.
And that's really where youknow things just start to take a
turn, and I think it usuallytakes a turn for the better.
So, yeah, something that Inoticed.
Shaine (10:38):
And, yeah, I enjoy the fact that we get summers, but
also the amount of work that youdo.
We do well over 40 hours, wellover 50 hours, you know.
So there's a give and takethere.
Zee (10:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think I was doing at least 80hours a week when I was
teaching.
Oh my God, yeah at leastbecause you know I don't have to
tell you right.
Shaine (10:58):
Absolutely no, I get it, I get it.
Zee (11:00):
You're always working.
You all you right?
Absolutely no, I get it.
I get it, you're always working.
You're always thinking aboutthe next lesson plan, you're
grading, you're doing all thosethings, so yeah, so let's pivot
and talk about your current role.
So, right now, talk about whatyour role is in the UX space and
what you do on a day-to-daybasis.
Shaine (11:14):
So I'm a digital customer experience manager for
an insurance company and in thisrole that I'm at now, I
actually leverage a lot of whatI did previously.
So, coming from web design,coming from UX design, coming
from UX research, all of that ispackaged within the role that I
am in now I do a lot moreanalytics, use that to kind of
(11:37):
speak to some of the KPIs thatwe focus on, and this is
globally now, since it's aninsurance company.
It's a large insurance companyand you're talking about North
America, europe, apac.
So what I did to actually getin this space was really own my
UX design skills and be able tospeak to it in a way that all
(11:59):
teachers have for retellings.
So that's the most importantthing that if anybody were to
take away from this is yourability to storytell and connect
the dots to your students.
It's incredible when it comes togetting into like a business,
and that allows me to speak to alot of the key stakeholders.
(12:21):
So you're you know your vicepresidents, your VPs, your
digital leads and also, ifyou're able to do it, you can
also speak to the developmentteams as well.
So that's like really, reallyimportant, because in my role, I
speak for the business.
So I speak to the developers,the people who design the entire
(12:42):
the sites on the back end.
I'm the one that tells themwhich analytics or which metrics
we're looking to leverage hereand why we're looking to
leverage it, and then take thatinformation during those sprints
and then speak to the I guess,my direct and say, hey, this is
what's going on here, this iswhy we're analyzing key parts
(13:02):
within the website.
This is what we need to do toleverage these insights.
I think that that's somethingthat's great because of my
storytelling abilities fromteaching.
Zee (13:14):
Okay, got it, got it.
So let's take one step backhere, because a lot of my
listeners are not familiar witha lot of the acronyms and some
of the things you werementioning.
So you mentioned the KPIs,which are the key performance
indicators.
Shaine (13:26):
Yes.
Zee (13:26):
Okay, and then going back to your role as a digital
customer experience manager,right.
So, customer experience we sayCX.
User experience we say UX.
So what would be the differencebetween UX and CX?
Shaine (13:40):
The major difference here is that I am not building
the platforms.
Ux designers are really, youknow, building your prototypes,
your wireframes, yourstoryboards and all that.
So I forego that now and peopledo the demos on the prototype
that they've built for me and Ikind of pick at it.
(14:04):
To speak again from thebusiness standpoint of oh, there
may be a pain point here interms of I'll utilize one of the
examples.
So, one of the sites that isunder my portfolio now there's a
drafts thing where you can justsave your progress and you can
come back to it.
Now, the drafts thing you cansee clear as day, it's one of
those call to action buttonsthat's on the bottom there.
(14:26):
That's great.
But getting back to that draft,if you were to log out and log
back in, where do you see it?
Now, again, from the UXstandpoint, you should, you are
thinking about that, but you'rethinking about that in a micro
way of like, oh, let me justthrow in a hamburger menu here
and you'll be able to see it.
(14:46):
A hamburger menu is just thethree lines that you see on your
screen.
That has a dropdown menu, butas a user or a customer someone
who may be older it's notlooking for a hamburger menu.
They need something a littlebit more in their face to see it
Right.
So I just speak for them to theUX designers Got it, Got it.
Zee (15:10):
That makes sense.
So you're bringing in the.
You're advocating for the usersand also advocating for the
business at the same time.
Shaine (15:18):
Absolutely.
Zee (15:19):
Yeah, okay, so in your work and I really appreciate you
giving that example, because Iknow examples make things a lot
more clear, so I appreciate thatso you work with UX designers,
you work with, probably,engineers, you also work with UX
researchers, correct?
Shaine (15:33):
I double as a UX researcher for my company.
So our team is small three intotal but that's the CX team.
The UX team is small three intotal, but that's the CX team.
The UX team is small as well,but they are doing a lot of the
designs.
They have a huge load of workon their side.
(15:55):
So when it comes to gettingthese insights customers,
internal, external we're theones that are really
spearheading that and doing theinterviews, the surveys,
leveraging Medallia and takingthat information and just trying
to speak to the business side.
So our UX team doesn'tnecessarily focus on the
(16:17):
research from the businessstandpoint.
Zee (16:20):
Got it, got it.
So, just for the listeners,medallia is basically a place
where you can get feedback fromyour users, right?
Shaine (16:26):
Yes, yes.
Zee (16:27):
All right, just wanted to make sure I'm on the same page
here.
So let's talk about you being adigital customer experience
manager.
So is that something where youthink teachers would be able to
transition into that managertype of position, or do you
think they would need to have,like, another position and then
work their way up to thatmanager role in that space?
Shaine (16:45):
I think I shot for the moon in this case.
I'm not going to lie.
One thing I've always did, likeI said, I always had some sort
of a side hustle going on, andfor the lion's share of my
teaching career, I was alsomoonlighting as a sales and
(17:06):
service representative forNordstrom.
Zee (17:08):
Wow Okay.
Shaine (17:10):
Right.
This is on top of going toschool.
I am a go go, go get it Right.
So, and I took that and all theskills I learned from there, I
packaged it as well.
So I had three buckets ofskills that I had and this is
why and for your listeners, I'mso serious.
(17:31):
Whatever it is that you're doing, take inventory of it Right and
then strip it down to find outwhat skill or what niche you're
actually good at.
I was good at Nordstrom.
I was good at you know, I wasonly doing it on the weekend,
but I was good at taking time tocommunicate with people and
finding out.
You know the whys and the howsfor getting whatever they're
(17:53):
getting right.
So I think teachers absolutelycan go for the manager role.
However, they must be able tospeak the language and the
terminologies that's being usedwithin the field that, wherever
field they're applying to.
That's the most important thing.
You have to be able to havesome of those things down pat
(18:17):
before applying to thosepositions Because again, you're
entering a market where people Imean there were a ton of
layoffs again this year and someof those companies are kind of
opening the well again andletting people apply to some
some of their positions again,but they're out there and if you
(18:38):
don't feel confident when itcomes to like language that you
use, the language that'shappening within the industry,
you're going to have to take acrash course in that ASAP.
Zee (18:49):
You talked about taking an inventory of your skills, what
you can do, whether it's fromteaching, whether it's from a
side hustle, that you have goingon a second job all of your
skills, like doing an inventoryand seeing what you can do and
packaging your experience joball of your skills like doing an
inventory and seeing what youcan do and packaging your
experience.
So I want to talk about thatpiece packaging your experience.
How did you learn how to, sortof like, build your resume,
(19:10):
package your experience, puteverything together to present
yourself as this person that cantake on a CX UX manager
position?
Shaine (19:18):
I leaned a lot on LinkedIn.
I leaned a lot on LinkedIn I'mnot going to lie During 23, I
definitely I had a Jew, I hadeverybody from the industry and
I just soaked it up, and notonly there.
I also looked at the resumesthat they were doing.
I won't lie, I definitelypurchased a resume builder the
(19:39):
company they do careers andeverything like that.
But someone kind of discussedwith me what is it that you do
and how long do you do it for?
And they helped me kind ofconnect some of the dots.
But before I did that, I alwayshave like a running list of
resumes that I have that I enjoy, and one of the major things
(19:59):
when it comes to resumes now isthe.
And one of the major thingswhen it comes to resumes now is
the.
What is it?
How did you leverage it?
Are there any numbers to speakon what you actually did?
Whatever, the action waseye-opening when I did my
LinkedIn deep dive because Ifound out, like I really have to
(20:24):
, for me to or for anybody, foranybody to get into this
industry, you have to have somesort of you know, KPI or key
performance indicator.
That's showing that you aremoving the needle, and teachers
absolutely have that Matter offact, the metrics that we get
from standardized tests and alsospecial education teachers.
(20:46):
We have to do it on a weekly tomonthly basis where we have to
track some of these metrics, soyou have a track record of
everything that you're doing.
Hey, listen, just figure outwhere you started at, where you
ended at, and find thepercentage in the middle there,
and then you can add that toyour resume.
That was something that I didto help me with all of my
(21:09):
different jobs there.
Where did I start, when did Iend?
What is the percent differencein the middle?
And I plug it in my resume.
Zee (21:19):
Got it, got it.
So I'm hearing about thedifferent, I guess, connections
between teaching and your rolein user experience, and it's
really about advocating for thestudents, advocating for the
users, understanding them well,also tracking the metrics and
being able to show that you canmove the needle, which you did
(21:40):
in the education space.
I'm sure you did in yourbusiness for your
entrepreneurship role.
There's a lot of connections.
Then You're showing thatthere's a lot of connections
between teaching and or yourentrepreneurship experience and
going into that UX position.
Shaine (21:55):
Yes, absolutely.
And also doing projects helpedme, because there weren't
metrics there.
But end to end seeing it, yousee how long a process can take
how short a process can take,how long research is, oh my God.
And just going back anditerating over and over and over
again, like just doing some ofthose projects on the side, just
(22:17):
to kind of immerse yourself inthat, it helped me a lot,
especially during, like thatdowntime of me applying to jobs
and you know, you get yourrejection letters and you have
your existential crisis of like,oh my god, am I ever going to
get something?
Or let something hit.
And as you're doing that, youalso have to kind of continue to
(22:38):
.
Zee (22:38):
you know, push along yeah, and earlier you mentioned being
able to spend some time withyour family, spend some time
with your wife, your son and Iwanted to talk about the
work-life balance.
So is there, do you feel asense of work-life balance as
you're in your new role?
How do you feel in terms ofbalancing your personal life and
your work right now?
Shaine (22:59):
it's never been better for me.
I do have a hybrid schedule.
Right now.
My team is separated, so mydirect is in Connecticut.
I have a teammate that's in.
That is in the UK.
Okay so we're all separate, sowe're never really like together
.
So our syncs occur like maybelike once a week.
(23:22):
But within the position thatI'm in now, I have
responsibilities, that I'm notgonna lie.
My manager definitely threw meto the fire like, okay, you say
you can do this.
Okay, let's see it.
Here you go, we're gonna, we'regonna get started.
So I love that I have theautonomy, like that.
(23:43):
That's like something.
Oh my God, it's amazing.
Especially again like so I wasa special education teacher, so
I had co-teachers and in thatspace, which it can be difficult
, yeah, but also it can beamazing at the same time.
But it really is how you runyour classroom at the same time,
but it really is how you runyour classroom and I was a part
(24:03):
of classrooms that were verywell run.
I was also part of classroomswhere it was a challenge.
So having the autonomy now towhere I kind of own some of
these processes is amazing.
I can get into the officewhatever day of the week I
(24:23):
choose, but also there are othersatellite locations.
Aside from that I can get likea New Jersey office, I can go to
the Midtown office or if maybeone of my co-workers he took
vacation in like California andhe's from California and he got
to do some remote work out therewhich was like pretty it'sheard
of.
You can't do that as a teacher.
(24:44):
Sometimes I'm home for lunchand I'm able to pick my son up
and I'm still going to get thesethings done, but they don't
necessarily.
There's no micromanaging of timeand sometimes, as you know,
like there can be definitelysome offices where it's like,
yeah, they're definitelyclocking you when it comes to
how you're coming in and out ofthe main office within your
(25:07):
school.
So there's none of that at alland I can't be thankful enough
for it, honestly.
Zee (25:16):
Yeah.
You brought up some memoriesabout the main office.
And it's interesting becauseyou know my work is remote.
Some people who havetransitioned out of teaching,
they have hybrid roles, some arein person, and you know every
company is different.
And it's interesting becauseyou know my work is remote.
Some people who havetransitioned out of teaching,
they have hybrid roles, some arein person, and you know every
company is different.
And so, even as a remote worker, you might have actually more
micromanagement and, lucky forus, it sounds like we don't have
that type of micromanagement.
We have deadlines we have tomeet and you know we can step
(25:37):
out to do something for one ofour kids, pick our kids up and
still come back and get our workdone, which is amazing because
our bosses trust us to do ourwork, you know, and that's
really important, that's reallyimportant one of the things that
I just want to add on that isbecause I work for a global
company.
Shaine (25:52):
Um, there are times and I think I heard, like you know,
a couple of your shows arepreviously, whereas you have,
like different teammates inother countries there definitely
are times where I am on on acall at like 9 pm and I say that
to people and they look likemouths dropped what, what do you
mean?
You're signing on at nine or orearly morning or whatever the
(26:14):
case may be.
And, yes, I get that and it isa bit of a shock at first.
Yeah, however, being able toblock your time during the day
is like it's fine, becauseothers know that there is
reasons, there's reasoning why,hey, I'm just not going to be
available from X to X and I'llsign on for this later meeting
(26:36):
or I'll get some work done at 7pm versus, you know, having to
be in essential locations to dothe work.
Just want to put that out thereas something that's a
possibility, especially if youare working within UX.
Zee (26:49):
Yeah, thank you for sharing that, because that is a reality
, you know, and something thatsome people are okay with it,
some people are not okay with it.
I am very much okay with itbecause I do have several
children and things happenduring the day and I can.
I know that I can put myyoungest down to sleep at night
and then if I have to jump onfor 30 minutes to take care of
something, or an hour, I can dothat, but I have flexibility,
(27:10):
Whereas when I was teaching Ididn't have any type of
flexibility in that, you know,if my child was having an event
at school, obviously I couldn'tbe there.
You know, first day of school,all these things.
Shaine (27:19):
Oh man, yeah, you can't make it.
You know some of those things.
Zee (27:22):
Yeah, I love to talk about that flexibility piece because
it was like you know, when you,when you're I don't know if you
did this, but when you'retransitioning out of teaching,
you kind of make your list of,like, your non-negotiables and
one of my non-negotiables-Absolutely yeah, one of mine was
like I need to have a balanceto spend time with myled and I
don't have the balance.
Yeah, yeah, All right.
So I wanted to come to the endof this conversation by asking
(27:47):
you if you could send a messageto educators or people who are
transitioning into UX.
What would that message be?
Shaine (27:54):
Take inventory of what it is that you're doing.
I can't emphasize that enough.
As a matter of fact, start now,start like yesterday.
Because if you can and thisgoes to the role that I'm at now
if you can start documentingsome of the things that you've
done, like you've done amazingthings, absolutely You're a
(28:15):
teacher, come on, especially ifyou've done them over a period
of time, like I've only taughtfor five years If you could just
get one or two of those thingsto identify and obviously you
know there's always someinitiative that we're rolling
out and you know whether it'sincreasing student rigor or
whatever document those things,store them for yourself, put
(28:38):
that on your personal thing andI mean, obviously you can block
out whatever names or whateverbut having those metrics, game
changer and again going back toif you were doing anything
outside of that, whether it'ssocial media, if you're
excellent at social media,that's marketing right and
marketing is definitely a thingthat you can utilize within the?
(29:01):
u sphere or not just UX withinthe customer experience sphere
as well, because that's what wedo we market to other clients,
we market to people who areactually utilizing the sites
that we have.
Take inventory of it anddocument it and try and I mean,
we have so many different AIplatforms now you can utilize,
(29:23):
plug it in there and try to makesome sort of a story where you
can kind of connect the dotsyourself and then package that.
When you have, like some sortof imposter syndrome I saw
during your show, you did one ofthose If you have something,
(29:46):
you can speak to it and you'reconfident about it.
Oh, man.
Yeah, others see it, othersdefinitely see it.
Zee (29:52):
Yeah, that's great advice.
I really appreciate you beingon the show today.
I learned so much from you.
I'm sure my audience will aswell.
Is there anything else youwanted to share?
Shaine (29:59):
Yeah, I have one of the people that helped me interview
or at least build my confidencewhen coming to some of those
things, because you you want toget all this information out,
all that ones.
Especially when you'reinterviewing and you only have
about 20 minutes or so with thisperson, you're trying to make
an impression.
One of the people I worked withher name is Malika Catlin.
She definitely helped me andhas a lengthy positive track
(30:21):
record of getting people jobs towhere they're really game
changers for them, life changing.
Honestly, it's happened with me, it's happened with, I know, at
least five others, so I'd liketo get her out there.
She's just on the onset ofmaybe thinking about taking this
as a career, but I mean she'sgood at it, so I want to make
sure that I can kind of give hera plug there as well.
Zee (30:44):
Awesome.
Thank you for giving herflowers.
If you give me her information,I can definitely drop it in the
show notes so folks can reachout to her as well.
Shaine (30:51):
Yeah, most definitely, that's great.
Zee (30:52):
So how can people reach out to you if they want to connect?
Shaine (30:58):
Yeah, I just started a new Instagram.
It's sdfrieser, and you canalso contact me via LinkedIn.
One of the things again thatkind of helped me during my
journey was collaborating withsome people from LinkedIn and
utilizing that project to kindof gain insights.
Just being able to work on aplatform and, you know,
(31:18):
whiteboard some ideas isexcellent and I'd love to open
myself up to those possibilitiesas well.
Zee (31:25):
Okay, I'm going to drop those links in the show notes
and in the description so folkscan reach out to you if they
want to have some conversations.
So again, thank you for beingon the show today.
It was so great to talk to you.
I really appreciate it.
Yeah, no problem, and we'lltalk soon.
Thanks, okay, bye.
Yeah, no problem, and we'lltalk soon.
Thanks.
Narrator (31:46):
Okay, bye, hey.
Thanks so much for tuning in.
If you like this podcast, hit,follow and scroll down to leave
a five star rating.
Then share it with a friend.
If you're looking for resourcesto help you on your tech
transition journey, head over touxteacherprepcom.
Follow us on LinkedIn andInstagram at uxteacherprep for
daily tips and motivation.
(32:06):
Have a topic you'd like to hearaddressed on the show?
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If you're listening on YouTube,like, subscribe and share.
Until next time, be well.
Welcome to the UX Teacher Prep Podcast, the
ultimate destination foreducators who aspire to break
into the field of userexperience and product design.
Your host, zee Arnold, a15-year teacher turned UX
researcher, is here to guide,coach and mentor you through
every twist and turn as you makeyour career transition into
tech.
If you're ready for a moresatisfying career and lifestyle
(00:23):
and you want the balance tounleash your creativity, this
podcast is for you.
Now for the show.
Zee (00:42):
Hello and welcome to the show.
Today I'm bringing you aspecial interview with Shane
Frazier.
He's a former New York Cityspecial education teacher with a
unique journey from educationto web design to user experience
design, culminating in hiscurrent role as a digital
customer experience manager.
In today's episode, he talksabout his transition from the
(01:05):
classroom to corporate and theskills he leveraged from both
his teaching career and his sidehustles to land a manager
position in the user experienceand customer experience space.
You can read his full bio inthe show notes, but let's get
into this conversation.
Okay, Shane, it's so great tohave you on the show today.
I'm excited to talk to youbecause you are a former New
(01:26):
York City teacher like myself,and I just feel seen and heard
having this conversation withyou today.
How are you?
Shaine (01:33):
I'm doing well.
It's actually pretty, prettyawesome to find someone who
actually transitioned from theDOE successfully.
That's in the same field as meas well, so this is great.
Zee (01:44):
So we successfully.
That's in the same field as meas well, so this is great, yeah.
Shaine (01:51):
So, first of all, I wanted to ask how did you learn
about UX, teacher Prep and thepodcast?
So a couple of years ago I wantto say about 21, 22 school year
me and my wife were at leasttrying to start a family, and
during that time frame I didn'tenjoy the work I was doing
within my school.
I won't say they were degradingor anything like that, but it
(02:12):
was definitely.
Since I was a special educationteacher.
It was definitely that kind ofsecondhand you're not the
primary person in the classroomfeeling, as some of the teachers
or SPED teachers may tell youabout and I noticed my stature
within the classroom kind ofdiminish.
(02:33):
One thing that kind of kept megoing was I had a self-contained
class, which was great, butduring that year I noticed that
my love for teaching started towane and I started looking for
other opportunities.
I already had some sort of aside business as well, and I
decided like, hey, you know what, maybe I can pivot into
(02:55):
something that I've already beendoing.
And during that time I went onLinkedIn, gathered as much
information as possible about UXand I added everybody.
I added everybody that was inthe field and I saw you were in
the field I definitely added you.
(03:16):
I just wanted to know the fieldand know the terminology and
the methods used within it.
Terminology and the methodsused within it.
I kind of dove into Courseraand you know, doing a Google
professional certification in UX, so I took that year as a sign
that I want to pivot.
Let me go through LinkedIn andthen see what I can find there.
Zee (03:44):
Okay, interesting, that's good.
So a year of like teachingyourself and just immersing
yourself in the field andlearning from others that were
in UX.
Shaine (03:48):
Yes, absolutely.
Zee (03:50):
Yeah, sounds good.
So you were a high schoolspecial ed teacher, and so how
long were you in that teacherrole?
Five years, and so you juststarted.
Just, is there anything aboutUX that kind of like sparked
your attention, that made yousay, ok, this is something that
I want to do, so at first.
Shaine (04:07):
I won't lie, I wanted to continue my path with
psychology and as I, as I didmore research within the field,
I found that I mean because I somy side job at the time was I
had a short-term rental company,or I had a short-term rental
and I just made it into acompany to where, instead of
(04:29):
just renting out the space forguests, what we did was we
rented out the space film crewcome and do the short film there
.
So what I did was I created awebsite for myself and I
(04:51):
utilized my platform to kind ofdo some of that other work
within that.
So I had web design skills.
And then, when I did thatresearch to find out, hey, how
can I, how can I?
Looked at myself and said, hey,I come from psychology have web
design?
Where is the middle ground here, if I were to pivot?
(05:15):
And that's where I found UX andfound out about, hey, you're
really taking advantage oftailoring experiences for your
user or your end user.
And a light bulb went off andthat's how I kind of found out
like, oh, this is something thatis definitely attainable within
, at least within me, and Ifound that I was doing a lot of
(05:40):
UX research work, just being aspecial education teacher,
because you have to take allthat information and all the
curriculums that you do thereand translate it for
neurodivergent students.
That's your end user Right andso like.
From there, you have to utilizewhatever method you can think
(06:00):
of.
So you have to, kind of, youknow, do your research on the
back end method you can think of.
So you have to, kind of youknow, do your research on the
back end.
And that's how I really foundout about UX research and I
found out that I was actuallydoing that work already, right.
Zee (06:12):
Yeah, I speak to a lot of people that realize over time,
as they get into the whole UXand learning it, they realize
that, hey, I'm doing some ofthis work already in my teaching
role, like I'm doing a lot ofthis work.
Especially special ed teachers,they tend to really be just
doing that work of trying tocater to the user, figure out
what the user needs Exactly andstuff like that.
And then I love how you talkedabout your leveraging your
(06:33):
entrepreneurship skills, yourpsychology background, your web
design skills, because we dohave, you know, outside of
teaching, there's other thingsthat we love to do and we do in
our spare time and we have thoseskills and certainly we can
bring them into our next role aswe decide to pivot.
So that's really important.
I'm glad you mentioned that.
Shaine (06:50):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's something that I thinkevery I mean at this point,
unfortunately, having you know.
Obviously you keep your nine tofive, but having a side hustle
is paramount in society at thispoint paramount to society at
this point.
So it's like, yeah, if you canleverage that and pivot
(07:14):
utilizing some of those skills.
Zee (07:15):
that's awesome.
Yeah, and before we get intotalking about all the things
you've done in the UX space, howlong did it take you to
transition out of teaching intoUX, once you decided that you
wanted to make that change?
Shaine (07:24):
It took a while, I'm not going to lie, it took probably
a year and nine months, and I'llpreface that by saying during.
So at the end of the 22 schoolyear, we took a long vacation
once in Costa Rica and wecleared our mind because my wife
(07:45):
was pregnant at the time.
Um, when we got back I said,yeah, I can't go back.
Um, I can't go back to thatenvironment, and we were already
going to go and leave.
So we were just going toleverage this next year and 23
to kind of do a hard reset,especially for me, because I was
saying, saying no, I wasn'tgoing to go back at all to that
(08:06):
school.
I did apply to other schoolswithin the district but it just
it just wasn't.
The love wasn't there anymore.
And during leave, my wifeactually ended up finding a job
before I did okay and inoperations.
So she's an operations managerand she pivoted and that was
amazing and I was able to.
Her being successful, was ableto kind of alleviate any of the
(08:31):
fears of both of us not goingback because she came from.
Her school was a mess as well,and so I utilized that year to
one bond with my son and, yeah,I was like fantastic, but also
to kind of own my skills in ux,I ended up doing a couple of a
couple of projects.
I collaborated with someonefrom linkedin and we did a side
(08:54):
project, which was fantastic,and I utilized some of those
things and, like you, you know,plug them in my resume.
Now, obviously, that 2023 yearwas just a mess in the industry,
in the tech industry, honestly,massive layoffs, people who are
(09:15):
well-qualified, so I'm enteringa field that's already crowded.
I would say that that probablydidn't help.
You know, you know people fromGoogle applying to the same jobs
that I'm applying to.
So, but all in all I it.
The thing started to turn uptowards the end of the year and
I started getting a lot morebites and I was able to parlay a
(09:36):
lot of the information or a lotof the skills that I had my
just entrepreneurial backgroundand to the space where I am.
Zee (09:44):
I am now entrepreneurial background and to the space
where I am now.
Wow, that's amazing and I knowthat imposter syndrome and
people from Google and other youknow fan companies big
companies are also applying, soit's kind of intimidating you
know yeah.
But I always tell people tojust focus on yourself and what
you bring to the table.
Absolutely and that's superhelpful.
And one thing that I noticed asa trend with people that I talk
(10:04):
to on these interviews teachersis they have this moment of
reflection, whether it wasduring the pandemic or just a
time when they had time.
You know, because teachersthat's what teachers don't have
right, they don't have time onvacation.
You have that time to reflectand clear your head and you
start to realize you knowthere's more that I want to do,
(10:25):
there's a bigger impact that Iwant to have and I want to make
some changes.
And that's really where youknow things just start to take a
turn, and I think it usuallytakes a turn for the better.
So, yeah, something that Inoticed.
Shaine (10:38):
And, yeah, I enjoy the fact that we get summers, but
also the amount of work that youdo.
We do well over 40 hours, wellover 50 hours, you know.
So there's a give and takethere.
Zee (10:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think I was doing at least 80hours a week when I was
teaching.
Oh my God, yeah at leastbecause you know I don't have to
tell you right.
Shaine (10:58):
Absolutely no, I get it, I get it.
Zee (11:00):
You're always working.
You all you right?
Absolutely no, I get it.
I get it, you're always working.
You're always thinking aboutthe next lesson plan, you're
grading, you're doing all thosethings, so yeah, so let's pivot
and talk about your current role.
So, right now, talk about whatyour role is in the UX space and
what you do on a day-to-daybasis.
Shaine (11:14):
So I'm a digital customer experience manager for
an insurance company and in thisrole that I'm at now, I
actually leverage a lot of whatI did previously.
So, coming from web design,coming from UX design, coming
from UX research, all of that ispackaged within the role that I
am in now I do a lot moreanalytics, use that to kind of
(11:37):
speak to some of the KPIs thatwe focus on, and this is
globally now, since it's aninsurance company.
It's a large insurance companyand you're talking about North
America, europe, apac.
So what I did to actually getin this space was really own my
UX design skills and be able tospeak to it in a way that all
(11:59):
teachers have for retellings.
So that's the most importantthing that if anybody were to
take away from this is yourability to storytell and connect
the dots to your students.
It's incredible when it comes togetting into like a business,
and that allows me to speak to alot of the key stakeholders.
(12:21):
So you're you know your vicepresidents, your VPs, your
digital leads and also, ifyou're able to do it, you can
also speak to the developmentteams as well.
So that's like really, reallyimportant, because in my role, I
speak for the business.
So I speak to the developers,the people who design the entire
(12:42):
the sites on the back end.
I'm the one that tells themwhich analytics or which metrics
we're looking to leverage hereand why we're looking to
leverage it, and then take thatinformation during those sprints
and then speak to the I guess,my direct and say, hey, this is
what's going on here, this iswhy we're analyzing key parts
(13:02):
within the website.
This is what we need to do toleverage these insights.
I think that that's somethingthat's great because of my
storytelling abilities fromteaching.
Zee (13:14):
Okay, got it, got it.
So let's take one step backhere, because a lot of my
listeners are not familiar witha lot of the acronyms and some
of the things you werementioning.
So you mentioned the KPIs,which are the key performance
indicators.
Shaine (13:26):
Yes.
Zee (13:26):
Okay, and then going back to your role as a digital
customer experience manager,right.
So, customer experience we sayCX.
User experience we say UX.
So what would be the differencebetween UX and CX?
Shaine (13:40):
The major difference here is that I am not building
the platforms.
Ux designers are really, youknow, building your prototypes,
your wireframes, yourstoryboards and all that.
So I forego that now and peopledo the demos on the prototype
that they've built for me and Ikind of pick at it.
(14:04):
To speak again from thebusiness standpoint of oh, there
may be a pain point here interms of I'll utilize one of the
examples.
So, one of the sites that isunder my portfolio now there's a
drafts thing where you can justsave your progress and you can
come back to it.
Now, the drafts thing you cansee clear as day, it's one of
those call to action buttonsthat's on the bottom there.
(14:26):
That's great.
But getting back to that draft,if you were to log out and log
back in, where do you see it?
Now, again, from the UXstandpoint, you should, you are
thinking about that, but you'rethinking about that in a micro
way of like, oh, let me justthrow in a hamburger menu here
and you'll be able to see it.
(14:46):
A hamburger menu is just thethree lines that you see on your
screen.
That has a dropdown menu, butas a user or a customer someone
who may be older it's notlooking for a hamburger menu.
They need something a littlebit more in their face to see it
Right.
So I just speak for them to theUX designers Got it, Got it.
Zee (15:10):
That makes sense.
So you're bringing in the.
You're advocating for the usersand also advocating for the
business at the same time.
Shaine (15:18):
Absolutely.
Zee (15:19):
Yeah, okay, so in your work and I really appreciate you
giving that example, because Iknow examples make things a lot
more clear, so I appreciate thatso you work with UX designers,
you work with, probably,engineers, you also work with UX
researchers, correct?
Shaine (15:33):
I double as a UX researcher for my company.
So our team is small three intotal but that's the CX team.
The UX team is small three intotal, but that's the CX team.
The UX team is small as well,but they are doing a lot of the
designs.
They have a huge load of workon their side.
(15:55):
So when it comes to gettingthese insights customers,
internal, external we're theones that are really
spearheading that and doing theinterviews, the surveys,
leveraging Medallia and takingthat information and just trying
to speak to the business side.
So our UX team doesn'tnecessarily focus on the
(16:17):
research from the businessstandpoint.
Zee (16:20):
Got it, got it.
So, just for the listeners,medallia is basically a place
where you can get feedback fromyour users, right?
Shaine (16:26):
Yes, yes.
Zee (16:27):
All right, just wanted to make sure I'm on the same page
here.
So let's talk about you being adigital customer experience
manager.
So is that something where youthink teachers would be able to
transition into that managertype of position, or do you
think they would need to have,like, another position and then
work their way up to thatmanager role in that space?
Shaine (16:45):
I think I shot for the moon in this case.
I'm not going to lie.
One thing I've always did, likeI said, I always had some sort
of a side hustle going on, andfor the lion's share of my
teaching career, I was alsomoonlighting as a sales and
(17:06):
service representative forNordstrom.
Zee (17:08):
Wow Okay.
Shaine (17:10):
Right.
This is on top of going toschool.
I am a go go, go get it Right.
So, and I took that and all theskills I learned from there, I
packaged it as well.
So I had three buckets ofskills that I had and this is
why and for your listeners, I'mso serious.
(17:31):
Whatever it is that you're doing, take inventory of it Right and
then strip it down to find outwhat skill or what niche you're
actually good at.
I was good at Nordstrom.
I was good at you know, I wasonly doing it on the weekend,
but I was good at taking time tocommunicate with people and
finding out.
You know the whys and the howsfor getting whatever they're
(17:53):
getting right.
So I think teachers absolutelycan go for the manager role.
However, they must be able tospeak the language and the
terminologies that's being usedwithin the field that, wherever
field they're applying to.
That's the most important thing.
You have to be able to havesome of those things down pat
(18:17):
before applying to thosepositions Because again, you're
entering a market where people Imean there were a ton of
layoffs again this year and someof those companies are kind of
opening the well again andletting people apply to some
some of their positions again,but they're out there and if you
(18:38):
don't feel confident when itcomes to like language that you
use, the language that'shappening within the industry,
you're going to have to take acrash course in that ASAP.
Zee (18:49):
You talked about taking an inventory of your skills, what
you can do, whether it's fromteaching, whether it's from a
side hustle, that you have goingon a second job all of your
skills, like doing an inventoryand seeing what you can do and
packaging your experience joball of your skills like doing an
inventory and seeing what youcan do and packaging your
experience.
So I want to talk about thatpiece packaging your experience.
How did you learn how to, sortof like, build your resume,
(19:10):
package your experience, puteverything together to present
yourself as this person that cantake on a CX UX manager
position?
Shaine (19:18):
I leaned a lot on LinkedIn.
I leaned a lot on LinkedIn I'mnot going to lie During 23, I
definitely I had a Jew, I hadeverybody from the industry and
I just soaked it up, and notonly there.
I also looked at the resumesthat they were doing.
I won't lie, I definitelypurchased a resume builder the
(19:39):
company they do careers andeverything like that.
But someone kind of discussedwith me what is it that you do
and how long do you do it for?
And they helped me kind ofconnect some of the dots.
But before I did that, I alwayshave like a running list of
resumes that I have that I enjoy, and one of the major things
(19:59):
when it comes to resumes now isthe.
And one of the major thingswhen it comes to resumes now is
the.
What is it?
How did you leverage it?
Are there any numbers to speakon what you actually did?
Whatever, the action waseye-opening when I did my
LinkedIn deep dive because Ifound out, like I really have to
(20:24):
, for me to or for anybody, foranybody to get into this
industry, you have to have somesort of you know, KPI or key
performance indicator.
That's showing that you aremoving the needle, and teachers
absolutely have that Matter offact, the metrics that we get
from standardized tests and alsospecial education teachers.
(20:46):
We have to do it on a weekly tomonthly basis where we have to
track some of these metrics, soyou have a track record of
everything that you're doing.
Hey, listen, just figure outwhere you started at, where you
ended at, and find thepercentage in the middle there,
and then you can add that toyour resume.
That was something that I didto help me with all of my
(21:09):
different jobs there.
Where did I start, when did Iend?
What is the percent differencein the middle?
And I plug it in my resume.
Zee (21:19):
Got it, got it.
So I'm hearing about thedifferent, I guess, connections
between teaching and your rolein user experience, and it's
really about advocating for thestudents, advocating for the
users, understanding them well,also tracking the metrics and
being able to show that you canmove the needle, which you did
(21:40):
in the education space.
I'm sure you did in yourbusiness for your
entrepreneurship role.
There's a lot of connections.
Then You're showing thatthere's a lot of connections
between teaching and or yourentrepreneurship experience and
going into that UX position.
Shaine (21:55):
Yes, absolutely.
And also doing projects helpedme, because there weren't
metrics there.
But end to end seeing it, yousee how long a process can take
how short a process can take,how long research is, oh my God.
And just going back anditerating over and over and over
again, like just doing some ofthose projects on the side, just
(22:17):
to kind of immerse yourself inthat, it helped me a lot,
especially during, like thatdowntime of me applying to jobs
and you know, you get yourrejection letters and you have
your existential crisis of like,oh my god, am I ever going to
get something?
Or let something hit.
And as you're doing that, youalso have to kind of continue to
(22:38):
.
Zee (22:38):
you know, push along yeah, and earlier you mentioned being
able to spend some time withyour family, spend some time
with your wife, your son and Iwanted to talk about the
work-life balance.
So is there, do you feel asense of work-life balance as
you're in your new role?
How do you feel in terms ofbalancing your personal life and
your work right now?
Shaine (22:59):
it's never been better for me.
I do have a hybrid schedule.
Right now.
My team is separated, so mydirect is in Connecticut.
I have a teammate that's in.
That is in the UK.
Okay so we're all separate, sowe're never really like together
.
So our syncs occur like maybelike once a week.
(23:22):
But within the position thatI'm in now, I have
responsibilities, that I'm notgonna lie.
My manager definitely threw meto the fire like, okay, you say
you can do this.
Okay, let's see it.
Here you go, we're gonna, we'regonna get started.
So I love that I have theautonomy, like that.
(23:43):
That's like something.
Oh my God, it's amazing.
Especially again like so I wasa special education teacher, so
I had co-teachers and in thatspace, which it can be difficult
, yeah, but also it can beamazing at the same time.
But it really is how you runyour classroom at the same time,
but it really is how you runyour classroom and I was a part
(24:03):
of classrooms that were verywell run.
I was also part of classroomswhere it was a challenge.
So having the autonomy now towhere I kind of own some of
these processes is amazing.
I can get into the officewhatever day of the week I
(24:23):
choose, but also there are othersatellite locations.
Aside from that I can get likea New Jersey office, I can go to
the Midtown office or if maybeone of my co-workers he took
vacation in like California andhe's from California and he got
to do some remote work out therewhich was like pretty it'sheard
of.
You can't do that as a teacher.
(24:44):
Sometimes I'm home for lunchand I'm able to pick my son up
and I'm still going to get thesethings done, but they don't
necessarily.
There's no micromanaging of timeand sometimes, as you know,
like there can be definitelysome offices where it's like,
yeah, they're definitelyclocking you when it comes to
how you're coming in and out ofthe main office within your
(25:07):
school.
So there's none of that at alland I can't be thankful enough
for it, honestly.
Zee (25:16):
Yeah.
You brought up some memoriesabout the main office.
And it's interesting becauseyou know my work is remote.
Some people who havetransitioned out of teaching,
they have hybrid roles, some arein person, and you know every
company is different.
And it's interesting becauseyou know my work is remote.
Some people who havetransitioned out of teaching,
they have hybrid roles, some arein person, and you know every
company is different.
And so, even as a remote worker, you might have actually more
micromanagement and, lucky forus, it sounds like we don't have
that type of micromanagement.
We have deadlines we have tomeet and you know we can step
(25:37):
out to do something for one ofour kids, pick our kids up and
still come back and get our workdone, which is amazing because
our bosses trust us to do ourwork, you know, and that's
really important, that's reallyimportant one of the things that
I just want to add on that isbecause I work for a global
company.
Shaine (25:52):
Um, there are times and I think I heard, like you know,
a couple of your shows arepreviously, whereas you have,
like different teammates inother countries there definitely
are times where I am on on acall at like 9 pm and I say that
to people and they look likemouths dropped what, what do you
mean?
You're signing on at nine or orearly morning or whatever the
(26:14):
case may be.
And, yes, I get that and it isa bit of a shock at first.
Yeah, however, being able toblock your time during the day
is like it's fine, becauseothers know that there is
reasons, there's reasoning why,hey, I'm just not going to be
available from X to X and I'llsign on for this later meeting
(26:36):
or I'll get some work done at 7pm versus, you know, having to
be in essential locations to dothe work.
Just want to put that out thereas something that's a
possibility, especially if youare working within UX.
Zee (26:49):
Yeah, thank you for sharing that, because that is a reality
, you know, and something thatsome people are okay with it,
some people are not okay with it.
I am very much okay with itbecause I do have several
children and things happenduring the day and I can.
I know that I can put myyoungest down to sleep at night
and then if I have to jump onfor 30 minutes to take care of
something, or an hour, I can dothat, but I have flexibility,
(27:10):
Whereas when I was teaching Ididn't have any type of
flexibility in that, you know,if my child was having an event
at school, obviously I couldn'tbe there.
You know, first day of school,all these things.
Shaine (27:19):
Oh man, yeah, you can't make it.
You know some of those things.
Zee (27:22):
Yeah, I love to talk about that flexibility piece because
it was like you know, when you,when you're I don't know if you
did this, but when you'retransitioning out of teaching,
you kind of make your list of,like, your non-negotiables and
one of my non-negotiables-Absolutely yeah, one of mine was
like I need to have a balanceto spend time with myled and I
don't have the balance.
Yeah, yeah, All right.
So I wanted to come to the endof this conversation by asking
(27:47):
you if you could send a messageto educators or people who are
transitioning into UX.
What would that message be?
Shaine (27:54):
Take inventory of what it is that you're doing.
I can't emphasize that enough.
As a matter of fact, start now,start like yesterday.
Because if you can and thisgoes to the role that I'm at now
if you can start documentingsome of the things that you've
done, like you've done amazingthings, absolutely You're a
(28:15):
teacher, come on, especially ifyou've done them over a period
of time, like I've only taughtfor five years If you could just
get one or two of those thingsto identify and obviously you
know there's always someinitiative that we're rolling
out and you know whether it'sincreasing student rigor or
whatever document those things,store them for yourself, put
(28:38):
that on your personal thing andI mean, obviously you can block
out whatever names or whateverbut having those metrics, game
changer and again going back toif you were doing anything
outside of that, whether it'ssocial media, if you're
excellent at social media,that's marketing right and
marketing is definitely a thingthat you can utilize within the?
(29:01):
u sphere or not just UX withinthe customer experience sphere
as well, because that's what wedo we market to other clients,
we market to people who areactually utilizing the sites
that we have.
Take inventory of it anddocument it and try and I mean,
we have so many different AIplatforms now you can utilize,
(29:23):
plug it in there and try to makesome sort of a story where you
can kind of connect the dotsyourself and then package that.
When you have, like some sortof imposter syndrome I saw
during your show, you did one ofthose If you have something,
(29:46):
you can speak to it and you'reconfident about it.
Oh, man.
Yeah, others see it, othersdefinitely see it.
Zee (29:52):
Yeah, that's great advice.
I really appreciate you beingon the show today.
I learned so much from you.
I'm sure my audience will aswell.
Is there anything else youwanted to share?
Shaine (29:59):
Yeah, I have one of the people that helped me interview
or at least build my confidencewhen coming to some of those
things, because you you want toget all this information out,
all that ones.
Especially when you'reinterviewing and you only have
about 20 minutes or so with thisperson, you're trying to make
an impression.
One of the people I worked withher name is Malika Catlin.
She definitely helped me andhas a lengthy positive track
(30:21):
record of getting people jobs towhere they're really game
changers for them, life changing.
Honestly, it's happened with me, it's happened with, I know, at
least five others, so I'd liketo get her out there.
She's just on the onset ofmaybe thinking about taking this
as a career, but I mean she'sgood at it, so I want to make
sure that I can kind of give hera plug there as well.
Zee (30:44):
Awesome.
Thank you for giving herflowers.
If you give me her information,I can definitely drop it in the
show notes so folks can reachout to her as well.
Shaine (30:51):
Yeah, most definitely, that's great.
Zee (30:52):
So how can people reach out to you if they want to connect?
Shaine (30:58):
Yeah, I just started a new Instagram.
It's sdfrieser, and you canalso contact me via LinkedIn.
One of the things again thatkind of helped me during my
journey was collaborating withsome people from LinkedIn and
utilizing that project to kindof gain insights.
Just being able to work on aplatform and, you know,
(31:18):
whiteboard some ideas isexcellent and I'd love to open
myself up to those possibilitiesas well.
Zee (31:25):
Okay, I'm going to drop those links in the show notes
and in the description so folkscan reach out to you if they
want to have some conversations.
So again, thank you for beingon the show today.
It was so great to talk to you.
I really appreciate it.
Yeah, no problem, and we'lltalk soon.
Thanks, okay, bye.
Yeah, no problem, and we'lltalk soon.
Thanks.
Narrator (31:46):
Okay, bye, hey.
Thanks so much for tuning in.
If you like this podcast, hit,follow and scroll down to leave
a five star rating.
Then share it with a friend.
If you're looking for resourcesto help you on your tech
transition journey, head over touxteacherprepcom.
Follow us on LinkedIn andInstagram at uxteacherprep for
daily tips and motivation.
(32:06):
Have a topic you'd like to hearaddressed on the show?
Send us a DM on Instagram.
If you're listening on YouTube,like, subscribe and share.
Until next time, be well.
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