November 23, 2024 • 61 mins
This episode features Sara Perry, an expert somatic sex coach, who provides invaluable insights into navigating the emotional challenges of cuckolding, such as jealousy and shame. She tackles the misconceptions surrounding cuckolding and offers practical advice for singles and couples on setting and evolving boundaries while embracing one's sexuality without judgment. Learn how her practice integrates mind, body, and spirit to support individuals and couples in addressing big emotions and societal pressures. This episode is packed full of valuable information, resources and advice for couples so that they can thrive in a healthy cuckolding relationship.
Links:
Sara Perry https://www.saraperry.com/
Haven Space Coaching https://www.havenspacecoaching.com/
Haven Space YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@havenspacecoaching
Somatic Sex Coach List https://www.somaticainstitute.com/sex-coach-near-me/
Haven Space Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/haven-space/id1507429724
Find Venus on Bluesky 🦋 https://bsky.app/profile/cuckoldressv.bsky.social
Listen to the Bonus episode: "Kneeling at the BBC Altar" on the private podcast https://www.venuscuckoldress.com/Queens-quarter or Apple podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-venus-cuckoldress-podcast/id1495573107
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❤️❤️❤️ Venus Connections Matchmaking for Cuckolding and/or FLR. Learn more at https://www.venusconnections.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Here's what's coming up on the show.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
That's the person who makes the ultimate choice of
control, the person who says Itrust you, I feel safety with
you.
The moment that person doesn'tfeel that anymore, it's gone.
So ultimately the submissiveperson, 100% of the time, is
carrying the weight of that.
So when we start to rationalizeit if we want to rationalize it
(00:29):
absolutely the position ofbeing the submissive or being
cuckolded then translates to youbeing actually more powerful,
because you were so powerfulthat you were safe enough in
your power that you were free torelinquish it.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
This is the Venus Cuckoldris podcast, a place to
learn all things cuckolding forthe curious, for the passionate
and for the sexually empoweredwoman who wants it all.
Welcome to the show.
(01:19):
I'm your host, venus.
Thanks so much for joining metoday.
I am crazy excited about thisshow today because I've talked
about cuckolding for so manyyears.
It is thrilling, it is fun, itis exciting.
It's all the good things, butit also sucks sometimes.
There's a lot to this thefantasy, the desire, navigating
(01:39):
the relationship.
That's fucking hard.
It's hard for women and men andcouples and bulls and
everything.
It's not easy.
There's a lot of uncomfortableshit that you got to navigate
through sometimes and it'sfucking hard.
So I have brought in SarahPerry.
She's a somatic sex coach andshe's going to talk about some
(02:00):
oh my God finally some resources, some techniques, some tips,
some advice for singles andcouples who maybe have a hard
time, which is many of you goingthrough this.
She's got it.
She's finally I'm able to bringyou some solid, good stuff to
work with here when it comes tocuckolding relationships we're
(02:21):
going to talk about.
You know how to get throughcuck angst, because that's not
easy.
That's a lot of difficulty whenwe're talking about not just in
the moment of like oh it's sohot, it's like I'm kind of
jealous but it's so hot but likeall of the emotional fuckery
that happens after thatcuckolding scenario, especially
(02:43):
for the guy, like for the cucksthat's, that's hard.
We're going to talk about that.
And we're also going to talkabout shame.
Shame is something that almostall cucks carry around this
fantasy, this desire, this lovefor, for cuckolding and and it's
really detrimental for a lot ofguys.
So we're going to talk aboutshe's.
(03:03):
She gives some tips andsuggestions about that.
But also for the women, for theladies who have to deal with
slut-shaming I mean, sometimeswe're our own worst enemy around
that in that, like you know, wegive ourselves a hard time
about feeling good about oursexuality.
So we're going to talk aboutthat.
Relationship dynamics, sharingdesires and fantasies with your
(03:27):
partner, how to check in withyour partner and when, and
addressing the emotional andphysical needs of your partner
in a cuckolding relationship andsetting boundaries.
Those are just some examples ofwhat we're talking about today.
So, like I said, reallyimportant episode.
This is filled with great tips,suggestions, advice and
(03:48):
resources.
So get your pen and paper andmake sure you take notes.
I've also included all of thelinks that you'll need in the
show notes or description notesfor today's episode.
So just have a look there.
You can find everything there.
There's also a link to SarahPerry's YouTube channel that has
her meditation videos.
(04:09):
So there's one for body love,which is fucking amazing.
There's also a full body scanmeditation video, which is
amazing to use when you're goingthrough cuck angst.
So check out those links in thedescription notes.
Okay, just a couple ofannouncements before we jump
into the show today.
So I recently went to SplashMocha and that was in Houston.
(04:36):
This is my third year and I hada fucking blast.
As you can imagine if you knowwhat Splash Mocha is, there's a
whole bunch of couples andsingle black guys.
So, yeah, venus had fun and Ijust released a bonus episode in
it.
It's called Kneeling at the BBCAltar.
Ooh, yeah, I was the queen ofthe glory hole.
(04:59):
So, anyway, that bonus episodeis a recount of all of my
naughty little things that I gotup to at the Splash Mocha party
.
So you can catch that on theprivate podcast, that's, if you
belong to any one of the threesubscription tiers that supports
the podcast onVenusCuckoldresscom, you get
access to all of the bonusepisodes and the huge library of
(05:22):
bonus episodes so you can go toVenusCuckoldresscom and
subscribe to that if you haven't, or you could just download it
on Apple Podcast subscriptions.
So on Apple Podcasts, the VenusCuckoldress podcast you'll see
all the bonus episodes are onthere as well.
Links in the show notes fortoday.
Last announcement in the shownotes for today Last
(05:50):
announcement I've been talkingabout recently on episodes on
here about Blue Sky, the BlueSky app, and I fucking love it.
It was one of my helpful Cuckmembers who he DM'd me and was
like hey, have you heard aboutthe Blue Sky app?
And I was like no, I have noidea what that is and he's
like's, just like twitter.
But it's better and he's right.
So I have shut down my twitter,which fucking felt amazing
(06:12):
because I, like myself and manyother women on there, have faced
so much vitriol and hate andjust a lot of shit really over,
especially over over the lastfew months, the last year.
It's been really not a niceplace to be, so I haven't really
spent much time on there.
So I've shut that down andmoved over entirely to Blue Sky,
(06:37):
the Blue Sky app, and it is solovely there, like everyone is
so nice and it's very muchinteractive way more interactive
than before.
They have these starter packthings, which is pretty fucking
awesome.
Basically, like you can put allyour favorite accounts in one
list and share it with otherpeople and like here, follow
these peeps, and they can justlike with one click of a button,
(06:59):
follow them all.
Oh, it's awesome.
So, anyway, blue Sky fun placeto be.
It's growing by like a millionpeople a day because it's really
popular right now.
But if you don't follow me onthere, make sure you look me up.
My handle is at CuckoldressV,same one as Twitter, and yeah,
it's a great place.
So the link is in the shownotes for today.
If you want to go and join, allright.
(07:22):
That's it for announcements.
Let's jump in to this episode.
Here we go, all right, joiningme on the show today.
I have such a fantastic guest.
I'm really excited for this.
Sarah Perry is joining me andhere's a little bit about her.
Sarah is a radically inclusivefeminist from Venezuela that
(07:45):
deeply identifies with the roleof a healer, mother and holder
of space.
She guides two powerful,growing humans and a slew of
otherwise uncomfortable peoplein her private practice in
Houston, texas.
She holds an undergrad inwomen's gender and sexuality
studies, a master's in generalpsychology and a certification
(08:09):
of sexological bodywork andsomatic sex education.
Her current goals are expandingher own neurological capacity
for pleasure and attention andadvocating for ASECT I've heard
of this certification forgraduates of the field of SSE
and SBW and eventually garneringinsurance support so more
(08:30):
people can have access to thistype of healing.
So, sarah, welcome to the show.
Say hello to all the listeners.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Hi everyone.
I'm Sarah and I want to givethe land acknowledgement to the
land that I personally amsitting on is unceded and also
unowned land of the nomadictribes of the Sana peoples, the
Itakapa Ishak speaking people,the Kwatwitlikans and the
Karankawa.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
I'm just amazed how you pronounced all of that, and
I love that you did that.
So thank you so much.
Okay, you are what you call asomatic sex coach.
So I've heard of a sex coach,obviously, but I've never heard
of a somatic sex coach, so I hadto look it up.
So, and I'm excited to talkabout this, so what is that?
(09:15):
How is it different from like asex coach?
Speaker 2 (09:18):
So I use the term coach because it has to do with
finding solutions.
So so many people can be allkinds of coaches for different
things.
Specifically for me it'ssexuality and intimacy.
But somatics has to do with theintegration of the idea of
what's your mind, your spiritand your body.
So we talk about somatics.
We talk about what if all thosewere one thing and the messages
(09:39):
that your body's giving youevery time you have an itch or a
gut feeling and it's like avery specific tension.
What if all of those things areactually just as much a part of
your brain and so much a partof your spirit?
So we integrate all of that tostart paying attention to the
messages of our body and notjust rationalizing our way.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Right, so it sounds very holistic.
Yeah, absolutely Okay.
So I'm excited to have you onthe show because I've had, you
know, I've talked aboutcuckolding for so many years and
I sometimes romanticize it alot and it's just this beautiful
, amazing kind of like oh, it'san amazing kind of relationship
and it's just so bonding and soloving, so trusting and all
(10:23):
these things like thatrelationship and it's just so
bonding and so loving, sotrusting and all these things
like that.
But in real life it's not easyand there are a lot of big
emotions and feelings and issuesthat can come up with couples
and I've had them reach out overmany years.
Lots of people say can youplease have someone on your show
who can help with that?
So I'm so happy to have you onthe show today so we can go over
(10:46):
some of these like commonissues that couples have,
singles or couples have when itcomes to cuckolding or the
cuckolding lifestyle or thiskind of relationship.
So I'm excited, let's dig in.
So now, like I know that withcuckoldolding, this is mostly a
(11:07):
relationship for couples, right,there are some singles who, uh,
can I guess, hire like adominatrix or prodom and have
like a cuckolding session, andthat's something you know,
something on its own, but thisis mostly for couples, so this
is within the realm of anexisting relationship.
Then there are singles who are,like myself, out there in the
(11:29):
dating world being like, okay,this is something that I want to
have, and that has its own setof like difficulties.
But what I have found over theyears is that you know, there's
some very specific challengesaround cuckolding, that, when it
comes to like women or men,around things like shame or fear
(11:54):
of being, you know, outed, orthe discretion part is like
major and stuff like that.
So how do you, how would you beable to in your practice that?
So how do you, how would you beable to, in your practice, like
, be able to help couples whenit comes?
Speaker 2 (12:09):
to these kinds of things.
So it would be really specificto the person coming and having
an issue.
If the couple comes in becausethey both want to seek a
solution, normally one of themit's kind of more comfortable
with the role and the other onewants some other tools and
support.
So I think a lot of the waythat we start is because we
(12:29):
always go little by little.
You're like listening to whatyour body's saying and learning
to feel comfortable in thatsensation and it can't happen
like bam, here's the scary thing.
You have to feel it because youdisassociate, right.
So what happens is we starthaving conversations and then we
create these scenarios.
At first they can betheoretical, like imagine you
(12:52):
are at a bar and your boss walksin or a peer walks in and your
wife is actually talking toanother guy, like how do we
navigate this?
So then we go through how doesthat feel in your body?
Right, let's talk about thisemotion.
We go through how does thatfeel in your body, let's talk
about this emotion.
Then we just break down whatcould happen, like what are the
real consequences?
Because most of us have all ofthese big anxieties about things
(13:14):
that are really unlikely tohappen.
Yes, but our bodies show up forus because they protect us.
It's like this amazing tool wehave Right.
It's like this amazing tool wehave right.
So, acknowledging that thatanxiety is a message and saying,
oh, I'm so lucky that I get tohave a body that communicates
transparently and now that I'vegotten the message, I can
process it however I choose to,is just so important and so
(13:39):
empowering.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Once you have that, you have kind of the stepping
stones for moving forward inhowever you want to feel met
okay, something just reallyresonated with me with what you
said, because you were talkingabout the fear being greater
than it.
You know it's kind ofexaggerated.
One of the fears that I'm surefor all the guys listening right
now, I know you can relate whenI tell you this.
(14:04):
Like so many of the guys whoI've met have had this like
enormous fear of being outed,that enormous fear of somebody
finding out that they're intothis and this.
I've always said like it's verydetrimental, not just to
themselves but to theirrelationships or potential
(14:25):
relationships or dating orwhatever.
And it like it is hard for mebecause I'm like, ok, I
understand that you don't wantother people to find out.
I get that Like not everybody'sme flaunting that this is what
they like to do in the bedroom,but like, but to live in so much
fear over that that it kind oflike rules your life, this, this
(14:46):
like huge fear and and how,when you want your partner to
engage with this with you,you're kind of inviting them
into that fear space as well andthat can't be healthy.
So I like have you come acrossa lot of this in your practice
where guys are like especiallybecause you know you're within
(15:08):
the sexuality realm, where guysand women, of course, but
especially guys when it comes toa fetish or a desire or fantasy
like cuckolding, which is verytaboo and very, like you know,
challenges the idea ofmasculinity and stuff that they
have this like irrational fearof being outed.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Yeah, this is absolutely something that I'm
even processing with clientsthat I have right now is how we
reconcile masculinity withvulnerability, and that all has
to do with this very toxicsociety that we all contribute
to that doesn't have a clearpath for that.
I actually heard from someoneyesterday a friend of mine that
(15:52):
in Ireland the tradition ofbeing like a macho fighter man
actually came back full circlebecause that macho man was not
considered a true fighter unlesshe came home and wept and wrote
poetry about his battles.
Yeah, and so it's reallyinteresting that this is coming
up now, because I didn't knowthat about that concept.
But it's so funny how nowthat's been totally erased right
(16:15):
, like not just the idea thatyou could possibly enjoy your
wife enjoying other people, butalso the fact that you enjoy her
being powerful comes across asyou being less powerful.
But if we're trying torationalize it, the person that
has control in power,differential dynamics is always
(16:37):
the person that chooses to giveup control, that's the person
who makes the ultimate choice ofcontrol, the person who says I
trust you, I feel safety withyou.
The moment that person doesn'tfeel that anymore, it's gone.
So ultimately, the submissiveperson a hundred percent of the
time, is carrying the weight ofthat.
(17:00):
So when we start to rationalizeit, if we want to rationalize
it, that, so, when we start torationalize it, if we want to
rationalize it absolutely, theposition of being the submissive
or being cuckolded thentranslates to you being actually
more powerful, because you wereso powerful that you were safe
enough in your power that youwere free to relinquish it.
(17:20):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Oh my God, I have been thinking that in my mind
for so many years.
You've just articulated itperfectly.
This is always something that Ifelt like where?
Because I feel like for a lotof the guys it's just like oh, I
can't give up.
I can't give up who I am,because you know she's going to
(17:44):
disrespect me or she won't lookat me the same or whatever.
And here I am saying thatactually, we see that gift that
you're giving us of trust andsafety and giving up that power,
and that being so monumentaland just so amazing that we look
at you in awe.
That's amazing that my partner,who I love, is able to do this,
(18:09):
and but guys, just like so manyof them, just don't.
They don't see that, they don'tsee that possibility.
And I'm here, um, myself andmany other women, like, oh my
God, if, if you were just togive up that bit of power and
and like we would adore you forit, I've, oh my god, I love that
.
You just said that.
That was like a big moment forme when you just said so.
(18:31):
I hope that everybody who'slistening actually like rewinds
and replays that over again.
Maybe I'll put it in thetrailer because like that was
fucking amazing.
I, I love that so much.
That's, that's very, verypowerful.
So what other kind of issues doyou see with like these power
dynamic relationships such ascuckolding?
Speaker 2 (18:49):
I think it's really important to have not only clear
boundaries but permission, notjust from your spouse but from
yourself, to change your mindabout what those boundaries are
Like.
When I think about society as awhole, we have a very hard time
making it easy to change ourminds.
That comes from this culture oflike what is it?
(19:11):
Winners don't quit.
Yes, they do.
A lot of people quit terriblerelationships and close
businesses.
You absolutely have a skill ifyou know how to quit, but it's
the same if you have a skillwhen you know how to pivot and
change your mind.
And it's the same withboundaries.
A lot of times we don't realizewe had a boundary until we
cross it or it's been crossed.
We have to assume that ourpartner didn't intend to cross
(19:34):
our boundaries, unless that'swhat was hot, in which case you
can be like oh, that one was alittle bit crunchy than I
thought it was going to be Okay,or just assume that they
weren't trying to be hurtful andthen move on and say can we
renegotiate the way that thiswhole thing happened?
And a lot of that specificallyin like sharing partners can
look like.
(19:54):
Maybe my time during thesespecific moments needs to be
prioritized more than time withthese other partners that you
have Right, and it could be like, I don't know, if you're having
a really sad day or sometimes,when you have a sad day, you
prefer that they go away so youcan be alone.
All of that can be negotiated,but it's so critical to be okay
(20:17):
changing your mind.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Okay, and I love that .
It's so funny because, like,I've talked to a lot of newbie
couples into cuckolding over theyears and like yeah, by far the
first, one of the firstboundaries that they come up
together with is like no,kissing the bull.
So she's not allowed to kissthe bull, because that would be
like kind of romantic and wedon't want that because that's
(20:40):
dangerous, and like no, this isjust sex.
So but that's the firstboundary that gets crossed, that
one just flies out the window.
Why?
Because she's, she needs tofeel comfortable in that moment.
She needs to feel like she's init, you know, and that she's in
(21:00):
her sexuality.
And and I don't know about you,but for me the last thing I'm
doing when I'm in that moment ofsexual pleasure is scrolling
through the checklist of oh, canI do that or can I not do that,
like it's just that's reallyguaranteed to get me out of the
mood real quick if I got tothink about that shit.
(21:20):
So within cuckolding I haveexperienced lots of couples who
have had challenges around that.
Where she's in the moment, shejust feels like her body wants
something, her mind wantssomething, her mind wants that,
she wants to do something andshe does it and then afterwards
she's like oh fuck, like Iwasn't supposed to do that yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Yeah, I want to say that, being the person that
tends to facilitate peoplechanging their relationship
dynamics, we all want to sitdown and have this like laundry
list of crap that we'reexpecting and we're like I know
this is going to be weird andlike we want to be in the same
room, or you can't be in adifferent room, or you can't
talk to someone when I'm not inthe room.
(22:02):
We have all these rules, right,but all of those rules are
really there as kind of a netfor us to feel comfortable with
something that feels super edgy,right?
So if you're doing the work tofocus on staying super present
with your own emotions and yourown sensation in your body,
eventually that net is.
(22:23):
That's all it was.
It was a framework.
Everything inside of that canbe negotiated.
In fact, if you established adynamic like cuckolding already,
you know that everything can benegotiated.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
This is very true, yeah, okay.
So I love what you said aboutlike it being a net, because it
really is, and that's how I kindof felt, like I understand why
there is the need for theserules, boundaries and limits and
stuff like that.
It's about keeping your comfortzone, boundaries where they are
(23:01):
Right, and perhaps those twodon't.
Two things don't line up andI'm sure, like you said, you see
that in your practice all thetime.
Where, like, people are tryingto negotiate stuff like that.
I saw that a lot in the swingersworld.
When I was involved in thatbefore I knew about cuckolding,
I was like there was so muchnegotiating back and forth about
, yes, you have same room, no,you know, okay, if it's not the
(23:26):
same room, but I have to get youmy position permission first,
or like there's all these littlethings and I remember thinking
like, god, that seems like a lotto remember, a lot to deal with
, but couples do it and they,they, they do it because they
want each other to feel safe andsecure and all this, the net,
and a lot of times that's justlike the stepping stone into
(23:48):
actually just go, do whateverthe hell you want.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
see you tonight.
Right, you know so, and it hasto happen, because we've been
taught that you won't be safeunless you are jealous.
We've been taught that youwon't be safe if your partner
can explore other people.
But we don't live in that worldanymore.
Like, I can probably still feedmyself and my children if my
spouse chooses not to be with me.
Do you know what I'm saying?
(24:10):
Yeah, so our safety gauge isstill that safety gauge, but we
live in this world whereactually we're going to be fine.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Yeah, we're gonna be okay.
Okay, let's talk about jealousyBecause, yes, okay.
Over the years, many, many,many cucks have reached out to
me not knowing how to deal withthis cucky angst, I call it,
which is that like mix ofemotions.
This is terribly sexy and hot.
She's going out with this otherguy.
(24:39):
She's never been out withanother guy.
Like this is.
I'm scared, I'm nervous, I feellike I'm going to throw up, but
also I'm insanely turned on.
This is like this crazy thing ofemotional stuff that happens
with cucks when their partner isgoing to be having some sort of
sexual encounter with somebodyelse.
(25:00):
How they deal with that,because it's one thing to watch
cuck porn and be like, oh,that's fucking hot and sexy and
everything like that, and awhole other thing in real life
to do this.
It can go horribly wrong and Ilove the fact that you're you
know in this holistic mode ofhealing and coaching with people
(25:20):
, because this involves likecuck angst, involves
understanding what your body isgoing through.
One minute they want to throwup.
The next minute they've had thebest orgasm of their life.
Poor cucks like this is a lotto go through.
How can guys anticipate whatthat might be like for them or
navigate it when they're goingthrough it in a healthy way
(25:42):
where it's not going to bedetrimental to their
relationship.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Okay.
So totally yes.
I want to acknowledge that thisdefinitely happens and it
happens to people who have beendoing it forever as well.
I think that it's important totalk about, like the physiology
of it.
Biologically, the same part ofour brain that's responsible for
sexual arousal is responsiblefor other forms of arousal, so
(26:07):
like being scared and runningaway or freezing right or
fawning like you're going intofake mode so that someone will
be happy with you.
So it makes sense that a lot ofthese emotions happen at the
same time as very intensearousal.
I would suggest to people tocreate a boundary within
(26:28):
yourself about maybe if yourpartner is going on a date this
is a conversation that needs tobe had long after, not when the
partner arrives from the datelike you don't get to throw a
fit tantrum so that then you getmore attention.
Acknowledge like, oh, it wouldbe really nice and accommodating
to get more attention, and I'lljust say I would love a lot of
attention when you get home andyou can say that at the end of
(26:49):
the day you don't have tointerrupt the day, right, it's
like make little boundarieswithin yourself that seem
attainable, okay, and then whenyou're talking about those
boundaries later reallyacknowledge what was going on
with your body.
If you're in that moment whereyou're like processing all this
crazy sensation, there's allkinds of YouTube videos for
(27:11):
somatic body scans and that'sliterally just a guided way to
pay attention to everywhere,from the tip of your nose to the
tips of your toes, to say, okay, this part was tense.
What happens if I release it,like once?
Usually, if you have like a lotof tension in your stomach, you
can change your posture andthat dissipates.
(27:32):
We have so much control overour what we're interpreting as a
feeling if we just change ourbody posture.
So, using some kind of guidethat can keep you engaged while
still paying attention to what'shappening to your body and find
ways to like change thatposture and therefore that
(27:53):
emotion and sensation can belike unleashing to this new
power that you have, overtakingsome control about how you're
showing up with anxiety or with,you know, angst.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Oh, my gosh.
I think that was one of thebest suggestions, because I, up
until now, haven't had much tosuggest to these guys that are
going through that and I knowthey reach out to other cuckolds
and like, okay, like what do Ido?
Like I'm going through this.
They're literally like havingthis anxiety, like meltdown,
like oh my God and help, I'mlike what do I do?
(28:29):
But the YouTube videosregarding, like paying attention
to how your body is feeling andmaking corrections yes, this is
definitely something that guyscan do.
So what?
What is something that womencan do to help support their
partner during that process?
I did have a couple on the showand this was brilliant.
(28:51):
She wrote him a beautifulletter before she left and
sealed the envelope and was likethis is for you if you need it,
if you go through, if you'relosing it, if you're shutting
down, if you're having thatmoment where you're just like
open this and read it.
And he did.
I don't know what it said, hedidn't share, but like I just
(29:13):
thought that was so nice to beable to like think about that
ahead of time and provide thatkind of comfort for your partner
.
I thought that was amazing.
Do you have any suggestions forwhat women could do to help
support their guy when it comesto that?
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Yeah, I think that's a really sweet idea.
It makes me, it inspires,inspires me to think of like
things that your partner enjoysdoing.
Like in psychology we talkabout sublimation sometimes.
Like a good way to handle bigemotions that are negative is to
distract yourself with otherpositive things, like going to
(29:47):
work out or cleaning the closet.
You know, for some people andmost of us engage in those
behaviors naturally I personallythink that that's a form of
disassociation and that it'sokay to feel big emotions, like
we would benefit from justsitting in our big emotions and
then think long-term it makes usbetter people.
But if we're not able to safeenough, comfortable enough to
(30:09):
yet, then go sublimate, go doall the stuff you want to do.
Maybe plan something for yourspouse to be distracted, like
have, like him, go out with theguys for drinks while you're out
and even if it's on his mind,there'll be something going on.
Or maybe he could go to a movieor something that he enjoys to
do and you can plan it for him.
(30:30):
And then you have a little bitof that like acts of service
thing, cause you planned it.
So we know you were thinkingabout them and you also have
something that's activelydistracting them.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
A list of things to do.
The cookie list keep him busy,I love it.
The cookie do list, yeah.
The cookie to do list, I loveit, okay.
And then for women this isanother big issue that I've come
across is that, like a lot ofwomen feel shame around their
own sexuality, I, luckily, havenever felt that.
(31:06):
I don't think I just always beenslutty and been like, oh,
whatever, it's all good, but Ihaven't struggled with it like
most women have or do, and I getthat.
I could totally understand whythey feel so much pressure to
not, you know, enjoy andcelebrate their sexuality, but
in a cuckolding relationship itkind of requires them to do so.
(31:28):
So you'll have, like thiscouple They've been married for
a very long time and, and youknow, monogamous the whole time
and then he shares his desiresand fantasies around cuckolding
with her and she's like, oh, Idon't think I could do that,
like I would feel so dirty, Iwould feel so slutty, like what?
Like I don't think I could dothat.
And this is a real stumblingblock for them.
(31:50):
I am sure you come across thisin your practice, where you know
women have to deal with sexualshame and guilt.
How do you best support them orhelp them with this.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
I think all we can do is try to like relight the
match, because there was a timethat they were attracted to
other men and likely throughsociety and through years that
got suppressed, you know.
So you can just start little bylittle.
You could start being like,well, maybe don't go on a date
and hook up with that guy, butwhen we're at a bar start
telling me why you thinksomeone's attractive, you know,
(32:23):
and just start little by little.
You don't have to like jumpinto the deep end and I promise
there will be a day.
If you go out enough byyourself at some point, there
will be a moment that you meetpeople that you think are
attractive and want to shareyour body with Absolutely, and
so it doesn't have to beimmediately.
If you find a little path tostart like trickling in the
(32:44):
attraction for other people, Ithink it reignites.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Oh, that's a great tip.
I think it's like all thesepoor guys.
Guys, when they bring it up tothe wife they usually do it so
wrong.
They're like I just want you togo fuck a bunch of other dudes
and I'm gonna watch like it'sgrabbing one right and she's
just like what, first of allwhat?
So start small, and there is somuch fun that couples can have
(33:11):
without her actually sleepingwith other guys.
Like it's a little bit scary tosleep with a random stranger
dude.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Um not to mention it's like literally putting our
lives in danger absolutely indifferent ways too.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
I mean there's, yeah, there's, you know you could be
assaulted.
Um, you could have yourphysical health like fucked up
because of it.
Like you can I mean now, not tomention all the abortion bans
and everything yeah, you'refucked if something happens.
So, as a woman, but yes,starting slow and doing fun
(33:48):
things, even just talking abouta roleplay and everything like
that Like guys, come on, howcome you don't think about this,
you just go straight to the,the porn ending in their mind,
like in their mind they're just,and then they're dealing with
all of the backlash, of thatright.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Then they're dealing with all the angst and all the
when.
Really, if you would havetitrated the whole thing from
the start, it probably wouldhave worked out a lot better for
both.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Oh, yeah, yes, okay, guys, listening, guys, listening
I hope you're listening to whatshe just said Absolutely
Because, yeah, you're gonna jumpin with both, you know, with
both feet, and just be likeAlright, let's do this.
And then she's gonna go sleepwith this other guy and like, oh
, holy mad, there's so manythings that can go wrong with
that, but yeah, I also want toyour way up to it.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
We didn't.
We didn't really startdiscussing this, but a lot of
times the people that women areattracted to at least in my
experience as being a woman arepeople that you've already had
some contact with, For example,friends, coworkers, right, and
most of those people are on thedo not fuck list, right?
(34:51):
Yeah, there's always going tobe this little contingency of,
oh, you want me to go sleep witha bunch of people.
Well, Joe Blow over here hasbeen hanging out at our house
for three years and I think he'skind of cute.
And then your spouse is goingto say, well, absolutely not
right.
At least at first I'm notsaying never, but isn't it
(35:13):
interesting that we have to finda way to kind of curb that
leaping point?
You can't be so eager that itgives someone permission to
cross boundaries.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
that could be like really damaging boundaries for
you and for your family andmaybe for your work life, right,
I found that a lot, actually,where a new couple is so he's
like I want you to fuck some guyand I want to watch whatever.
And then eventually she getsaway like okay, but he wants it
to be a random stranger for safelike, because he doesn't want
(35:45):
her to catch feelings, right, hewants it to be just sex, like
this guy's just gonna be a dickand that that's it like and
that's his like comfort level.
Okay, but her comfort level issomething entirely different.
Like you said, like she wantsto know this person, she wants
to feel safe with them, shewants to.
Most women say they want tohave some sort of connection
(36:06):
with that person.
They don't want it to just beI'm just going to fuck this
random dude and then leave, likethey want, like to know, they
want to talk to them, get toknow them.
It's about emotional andphysical safety, and so you have
this disconnect where couplescan't agree on something like
that.
Or she's like oh, maybe I'llsleep with my ex or something
(36:26):
like that, which I'm like, holyshit, you want to really
complicate things.
The potential for disaster, Idon't know, seems pretty high.
It's crazy, okay, so how?
Like I know that it's with allof these sensations and emotions
and stuff, and we talked aboutdifferent strategies around
(36:49):
managing cuck angst and theguilt and the shame and stuff
like that.
But all of the cuckold coupleswho I know, who are thriving in
this lifestyle, they do this.
One thing often is check inwith each other and communicate
about how they're feeling, butthis is not something I think
(37:09):
that a lot of couples regular,everyday couples like actually
practice.
But this seems to be the key tosuccess when it comes to this
kind of relationship.
How would you recommend couplesgo about doing that?
Actually, do they schedule time?
How do people get in theroutine of doing that?
Speaker 2 (37:29):
I think you just have to be.
It has to be on purpose.
If you have to schedule it,schedule it.
But I don't know how yourschedule is.
Mine is if you put something onmy calendar, odds are I'll be
busy that day in a week, like itjust changes Right.
So there's something I lovecalled the five minute game, and
we play it.
It's kind of a powerdifferential game where you
would set a timer for fiveminutes and then one person gets
(37:53):
to choose if they wantsomething done to them or if
they want to do something to theother person for the five
minutes.
It could be sexual ornon-sexual, but most of the time
we're craving connection, soany kind of touch is nice.
Sometimes it could be like Iwant you to just brush my hair
and it turns out that fiveminutes is a really long time.
That's why we set a timer.
(38:14):
And having these purposefulconnections with people, with
your partner, brings you back tofeeling loved and taken care of
, when you can ask for what youwant.
If what you want is to put yourhands on them like I don't know
, maybe your partner has like afun part of their body that you
like to squish or play with that.
They typically wouldn't allowyou to just because it's like
(38:37):
doesn't happen.
That's a good time to ask forthat, and those five minutes are
also a great time to have aconversation about how you're
doing.
Like, oh, I really missed youwhen I did this the other day
and I thought of you and yourhands are busy so you're not on
your phone and typicallychildren are pretty good about
leaving you alone.
If you're very connected tosomeone else for the moment and
(38:59):
if they're there, then they canbe a part of it, like I'm jump
on, but I'm doing this thingLike I'm brushing mom's hair
right now, you know, and make itjust a part of your check-in.
And I like to make it a rulethat good relationships have a
five-minute game at least once aweek, and we think it's hard to
find time to get together.
But if you can't take fiveminutes and that can be
(39:23):
unscheduled, right, so it's notlike it could just be.
You got out of the shower andyou're like do you have five
minutes for the five minute game?
And most of the time, even ifyou're running late, you have
five minutes.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
I love that.
I think that's so important.
I would definitely have toschedule stuff like that Cause,
like I just feel like I forget,I would forget.
You know you get so caught upin everyday thing the everyday
life of busy shit, you know,especially you know parenthood
like you forget everything elseJust so involved in that.
(39:54):
Okay, so one of the things thata lot of the guys in this
lifestyle have written to meabout, talk to me about, ask me
about, book private chats to meabout, is the same issue in that
they brought this up to theirwife.
You know she, you know, mayhave participated in talking
(40:16):
about it or whatever.
Maybe they did some role playor maybe they, you know, use
some toys in the bedroom orsomething like that, but over a
period of time she kind of losesinterest in it and he feels
like he's like pushing this moreand more and they're like how
do I get my wife back into beinginterested in this?
And this is like so commonacross the board.
(40:39):
What do you think's going onwith that?
Did women just really like, arethey just disinterested?
Is it just a matter of themkind of getting them back into
it, or is this something?
Speaker 2 (40:50):
else.
I think that we're cyclical,like we tend to be really into
stuff and then we get over thatthing and then we're really into
something else, and then andthat doesn't mean we're not into
that thing I think we tend tobe really into stuff and then we
get over that thing and thenwe're really into something else
, and then that doesn't meanwe're not into that thing.
I think we tend to be more intothings that are easier to
accomplish than going to sleepwith someone else.
Theoretically, that's very easyto accomplish, but it's not
quite that simple, right.
(41:11):
So I think we get like kind ofnavigate towards things that are
easier to accomplish.
Like maybe we're really intobutt plugs for a while, because
you own them and they're there,so you don't have to like hunt
them down every time and feelsafe with them, and you know
what I'm saying.
So I think we're all cyclicaland I think you can absolutely
(41:33):
bring someone back around tosomething if you just let it
rest for a minute, becauseotherwise it gets annoying.
It gets like well, what are youtalking?
Like I like other things, right?
So I think it's important toallow someone to have their
little ebb and flow.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Oh, I love that.
So for the cuckies listening,make sure that you understand
that maybe she just needs alittle bit of a break sometimes
and that's okay.
I feel like from the cucks whoI've met and talked to over the
years, this is very muchsomething that they think about
all the time, every day, thatthey're constantly thinking
(42:10):
about these fantasies, that thisis something that is really big
and important to them.
Okay, then, the next question Ihave for you is another very
common situation that I see inthis lifestyle, in that he
brings it up to her.
She wants nothing to do with it, nothing to do with it.
(42:30):
And I feel bad for these couplesbecause I mean, just maybe
she's just like it's not into it, like is that?
And I tell these guys, I'm like, if, if you had, if she had,
this, this fetish, where youwere just like, oh, there's no
fucking way, like there's no way, what would you do?
Like I mean, it's not an easysituation to be in when somebody
(42:51):
wants nothing to do with thisother person's deep desires,
deep, deep fantasies, likesomething that is such a big,
seems to be a big part of whatthey want in their life.
And what do you do?
Are these couples just notcompatible?
Like are they.
What should they do?
Speaker 2 (43:08):
I mean, I think you kind of hit the nail on the head
right.
I think sometimes you're justnot into it and it's okay we
don't do.
First of all, we tend not toknow what we're even into when
we first meet our partners.
But even if we are, that stillchanges over time.
It's okay for your partners tohave different like what I call
(43:28):
like triggers, like the thingthat really makes you come than
you.
It's totally okay.
Hopefully they're still willingto engage in some form of
fantasy play, and I think thatplanting the seed for kind of
fantasy play eventually loosenspeople up to the idea because we
create patterns, so like ifit's always hot and we're always
telling the sexy story, thenmaybe it might happen.
(43:51):
I'm not saying force it right,but I'm saying the odds of it
happening are much more than ifyou would have never said
anything.
So I still think sometimesthey're just not going to be
into it.
Hopefully your partners arestill willing to like sauce
things up, to turn you on whenyou're having sex, and maybe
(44:12):
that leads to something more.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
And for the ladies listening, like it's so easy
just to say that little thingwhen you're having sex with your
husband.
Just whisper in his ear like,oh, totally fucked.
That guy I saw on the bus today, like that's all you need to
say and boom, he's happy as fuck.
For a week after that he'sriding on this high of like oh
my God, I can't believe what shesaid.
(44:35):
That was so hot.
This is literally all we needto say to and and I feel like if
you really love your partner,then you will find ways to have
indulged their fantasies likethat because it is important to
them.
And if and that's what you dowhen you love somebody doesn't
mean you have to go and fuck abunch of dudes, but you can
(44:56):
learn to say these awesomelittle things, hot little things
that are going to set them offcompletely into like I can't
control myself when we're havingsex.
That is hot.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
Yeah, not to mention the fact that it's also a form
of like being seen for yourpartner to think that it's
worthy of you to have thosethings you think are sexy, even
in play, right.
It's like it will make someonefeel much better that you were
honest about what you wanted.
If they can like, reciprocate.
(45:28):
If they can say that is hot,babe, I see it, I get what
you're saying.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
Yes, yeah, and that's like the nice thing to do, I
think, for your partner.
You know, like you said, tofeel seen and to to make them
feel loved.
That's how you make somebodyfeel loved and safe in your
relationship.
So OK, now my last question.
We've talked about couples alot, but what about the singles?
(45:52):
What about the singles Likepart of the tricky part around
dating in this lifestyle,knowing that you want somebody
who also is open minded to yourfantasies around cuckolding your
desires, around cuckolding andseeking that out there is this
like challenge Do you bring itup right in the beginning with
(46:21):
somebody or do you wait untillater on, let's say, six months
to a year into the relationshipwhere you bring it up.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
What do you recommend ?
I think it depends.
I'm actually in the process ofdealing with this with a few of
my clients right now who aresingle and looking for partners,
and I think it depends on whatultimately they're looking for.
If what they're looking for isto have a long-term, committed
relationship and this isinstrumental in that design then
yeah, I think you can be honestat the beginning and say, look,
(46:47):
I'm really into this, I likeestablish some kind of what
boundary you would like Like forsome people.
I have a client who has nointerest in exploring other
people himself, and I think thatcould be very important to a
lot of women.
So being able to communicatethat that's not the interest I
have.
This is something I've reallybeen into and I know that it's
(47:09):
what I want from my future andfrom my wife and the mother of
my children, and it's okay forthat not to be what someone
wants Like it's really fine andit's probably better to be in
that situation than to be inwhat we were referring to
earlier, where they've beenmarried maybe for years and
years and years and they're likehell.
No, and, by the way, sometimesthey're not even like accepting
(47:33):
of that Sometimes they're likedisgusted Right.
So you don't want to be stuckin the situation where you're
having to fight your own shamebecause in your house there's
shame about what you like.
Speaker 1 (47:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
Right.
I also think that if you arejust casually dating, you just
want a girlfriend and to do thatyou don't have to say it right
away.
I think you can casually dateand that it's more likely to
happen that way, because most ofthe time people make the lines
of sexuality and monogamy reallyblurry when it's not a cemented
(48:04):
relationship.
So that's probably a morelikely space for that to happen
than already inside of a supercommitted dynamic or with
someone who's like wanting acommitment commitment because it
just feels unsafe Right.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
Yeah, yeah, very good advice on that, I agree.
I definitely have been one tobe like it.
Just it depends where you arein life.
You're casually dating in your20s and you're just like, oh
fuck it, who cares?
Like I'm just out here havingfun, then who cares?
But if you are looking for yourlife partner, I mean it makes
(48:40):
all the sense in the world to meto bring it up in the beginning
and figure out, like do we lineup with this or not?
But I think how you bring it upto a person is also very
important, how you word it.
Yeah, I've said over and overagain on the show, like do not
say you want cuckolding.
Do not bring up kink language.
Like don't say anything aboutthat, just talk about it being a
one-sided, open relationshipthat you're looking for, where
(49:01):
she gets extra fun and you bothlove it that way.
Just keep it simple.
Ask me more about it.
You know that kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
But I think it would be really a good idea for us to
get together and create a kindof script for good language to
use.
Like we use that all the timein my practice and it would be
really helpful for us to havelike cue words that were like
throw these in there, thesemight work better.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
You know, absolutely.
I think guys are starved forthat kind of information because
they truly don't know how toput it out there in a way that
doesn't turn off a lot of womenunnecessarily.
And but then there's the otherproblem of like most guys, let's
face it are way too scared toput anything about this on their
dating profile or bring it upto my men.
(49:45):
So there's that.
We talked about this Cuck shame.
Speaker 2 (49:49):
So yeah, I do want to say that something we didn't
mention at all that I think isimportant is that for all of the
people listening who are veryscared to be outed, think about
what it would be like to findout that one of your best
friends is also into that.
Think about what it would belike to find out that your dad
was into that, or your boss, andhow freeing that would have
(50:09):
been.
And I think that it's a tonmore common than we realize.
It is that guys think thatthat's sexy and there's a lot of
freedom that can happen if weare safe enough to tell just one
friend, not to mention the factthat we feel much better when
we're not hiding something aboutourselves.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
Yes, I would really like for guys to be able to
understand what you just said.
It's still very incrediblyscary for a lot of men to even
think about that, though, so Ithink there's some work that
needs to be done, but I do havefriends who have, who are open
about it.
I mean, they don't go out, likeyou know, purposely telling
everybody, but they're openabout it to people in their life
(50:54):
and nothing catastrophic hashappened to them.
It's amazing.
The world didn't end, theydidn't lose their job, they
didn't lose friends, they didn'tlose family.
Like it was it very freeing, andevery one of them says that is
very freeing actuallyinterviewed somebody on the show
who was and this is a shittystory, but um sextorted, and
(51:16):
this person, who pretended to bea woman, got his pictures and
threatened to send them to.
I mean, they had all of hisboss's information, his parents,
his ex-wife, like everybody,and instead of paying the money,
he just went and told all ofthese people, and it forced him
(51:37):
out of the closet and he said,like everybody was just like,
all right, whatever, it's finethey don't care.
Even his boss was like it's fine, whatever, you have nothing to
worry about.
And even his parents they werelike, oh, what did you, what'd
you do that for?
But they didn't care, you know.
And he said like this was avery freeing experience for him
(51:58):
and that like he doesn't have toworry about any of that anymore
.
Nobody judged him Like it wasstressful as hell, but like life
didn't end.
Speaker 2 (52:07):
There's also this weird phenomenon of like the
compulsory need to talk aboutfetishes where no one feels the
need to talk about fucking inmissionary style.
You know, for some reason youdon't have to disclose.
I like to have doggy style sex,but you have to disclose.
I like to get pegged.
So it's like it's not an evenlike no one actually cares about
(52:28):
your sexuality, unless you'retransgressive or gay.
Otherwise, like you never haveto come out of the closet as
straight.
Does that make sense?
Yes, so I hate the rhetoric.
Like you never actually have tocome out of the closet as
straight.
Does that make sense?
Yes, so I hate the rhetoric.
Like you never actually have tocome out of the closet.
You don't actually ever have todo anything for anyone.
And also, people are a lot lessconcerned with what you're
doing with your partner, thatyou are committed and loving,
(52:50):
especially if your life isotherwise stable.
It's like that's the thing I'venoticed Like if your life is a
wreck, then everyone's judgingall your kinky shit, but if your
life is like, put together,everyone's like oh, that's very
interesting of you yes,absolutely, if you're happy
living your best fucking lifetogether.
Speaker 1 (53:09):
I mean, really nobody cares what you're doing in the
bedroom.
Yeah, nobody cares, I love that, okay, um, before I wrap this
up, uh, do you have, like I'mgonna post a link to one of
those YouTube videos that youwere talking about?
Do you have any other resourcesthat you would think would be
helpful for the listeners?
Speaker 2 (53:29):
Well, I love my field of work.
There's not a ton of us, butthere are.
If you look up somatic sexeducators, I think that would be
an amazing place to start, andthere's most of us are doing
virtual work with couples orgroups to some of us.
I have some friends in Canadathat are doing like groups,
group sessions and groupsessions for couples, and so
(53:52):
joining something like thatcould be an amazing way to feel
much more connected to yourpartner, into your own integrity
and like doing what you want tobe doing and in the boundaries
that you want to be doing it.
And so, yeah, I would I reallywould recommend that someone
find someone that studied thekind of stuff I studied, because
it's life changing stuff.
Speaker 1 (54:11):
Oh my God, absolutely .
I can see it being so helpfulfor people who are in this
lifestyle hugely helpful, so Iwill definitely post all the
links that I can in the shownotes for today.
Where can people learn moreabout you and your practice and
everything like that?
Where do you want people tofind more information?
Speaker 2 (54:29):
I have a website, haven space h?
A v?
E?
N space coachingcom, and thenthat has a YouTube channel.
It's the same haven spacecoaching, and an Instagram,
haven space coachingcom, andthen that has a YouTube channel
it's the same Haven SpaceCoaching, and an Instagram Haven
Space Coaching.
So any of those avenues and I'mon LinkedIn.
Sarah Perry, sse.
Somatic Sex Educator.
Speaker 1 (54:49):
And you have a podcast too.
I forgot I listened to yourpodcast.
Like you're out there justruling the world.
I fucking love it.
Speaker 2 (54:54):
The podcast was a COVID project and it's been put
on pause for now, but theepisodes are still out there for
people to listen to.
I think there's like 65.
They're all about differentfetishes.
Once in a while there's acouple of little things that are
different, but in general, Iwould just randomly pick a
fetish, do some research andrecord a podcast about it, so
there's some fun stuff on theretoo.
Speaker 1 (55:15):
Yes, I listened to the cuckolding one.
Very well done, excellent.
I'll post a link to that in theshow notes for today as well.
Sarah, it's been absolutelyfantastic having you on the show
with me.
Speaker 2 (55:27):
Thank you so much for joining me, thanks for having
me.
Speaker 1 (55:31):
That's going to be it for today's episode.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
Make sure you go tovenuscuckoldresscom.
That's where you can book aprivate chat with me, and you
can also join the QueensQuarters community and get all
the amazing benefits, like theprivate podcast and the helpful
cuck tier, where you can get keyholding for the private
(55:52):
Snapchat group, monthly privatechats with me and weekly live
hangouts and invites to speciallive events.
Oh, and you can also submit aquestion or confession for the
show.
Just go to venuscuckledresscomand click on the link that says
the podcast.
Make sure you follow me on bluesky social.
(56:13):
Yes, I said blue sky social.
Fuck twitter.
My handle there is atCuckoldressV.
All right, that's it fortoday's show, you guys.
We'll see you next time.
Bye.
Here's what's coming up on the show.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
That's the person who makes the ultimate choice of
control, the person who says Itrust you, I feel safety with
you.
The moment that person doesn'tfeel that anymore, it's gone.
So ultimately the submissiveperson, 100% of the time, is
carrying the weight of that.
So when we start to rationalizeit if we want to rationalize it
(00:29):
absolutely the position ofbeing the submissive or being
cuckolded then translates to youbeing actually more powerful,
because you were so powerfulthat you were safe enough in
your power that you were free torelinquish it.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
This is the Venus Cuckoldris podcast, a place to
learn all things cuckolding forthe curious, for the passionate
and for the sexually empoweredwoman who wants it all.
Welcome to the show.
(01:19):
I'm your host, venus.
Thanks so much for joining metoday.
I am crazy excited about thisshow today because I've talked
about cuckolding for so manyyears.
It is thrilling, it is fun, itis exciting.
It's all the good things, butit also sucks sometimes.
There's a lot to this thefantasy, the desire, navigating
(01:39):
the relationship.
That's fucking hard.
It's hard for women and men andcouples and bulls and
everything.
It's not easy.
There's a lot of uncomfortableshit that you got to navigate
through sometimes and it'sfucking hard.
So I have brought in SarahPerry.
She's a somatic sex coach andshe's going to talk about some
(02:00):
oh my God finally some resources, some techniques, some tips,
some advice for singles andcouples who maybe have a hard
time, which is many of you goingthrough this.
She's got it.
She's finally I'm able to bringyou some solid, good stuff to
work with here when it comes tocuckolding relationships we're
(02:21):
going to talk about.
You know how to get throughcuck angst, because that's not
easy.
That's a lot of difficulty whenwe're talking about not just in
the moment of like oh it's sohot, it's like I'm kind of
jealous but it's so hot but likeall of the emotional fuckery
that happens after thatcuckolding scenario, especially
(02:43):
for the guy, like for the cucksthat's, that's hard.
We're going to talk about that.
And we're also going to talkabout shame.
Shame is something that almostall cucks carry around this
fantasy, this desire, this lovefor, for cuckolding and and it's
really detrimental for a lot ofguys.
So we're going to talk aboutshe's.
(03:03):
She gives some tips andsuggestions about that.
But also for the women, for theladies who have to deal with
slut-shaming I mean, sometimeswe're our own worst enemy around
that in that, like you know, wegive ourselves a hard time
about feeling good about oursexuality.
So we're going to talk aboutthat.
Relationship dynamics, sharingdesires and fantasies with your
(03:27):
partner, how to check in withyour partner and when, and
addressing the emotional andphysical needs of your partner
in a cuckolding relationship andsetting boundaries.
Those are just some examples ofwhat we're talking about today.
So, like I said, reallyimportant episode.
This is filled with great tips,suggestions, advice and
(03:48):
resources.
So get your pen and paper andmake sure you take notes.
I've also included all of thelinks that you'll need in the
show notes or description notesfor today's episode.
So just have a look there.
You can find everything there.
There's also a link to SarahPerry's YouTube channel that has
her meditation videos.
(04:09):
So there's one for body love,which is fucking amazing.
There's also a full body scanmeditation video, which is
amazing to use when you're goingthrough cuck angst.
So check out those links in thedescription notes.
Okay, just a couple ofannouncements before we jump
into the show today.
So I recently went to SplashMocha and that was in Houston.
(04:36):
This is my third year and I hada fucking blast.
As you can imagine if you knowwhat Splash Mocha is, there's a
whole bunch of couples andsingle black guys.
So, yeah, venus had fun and Ijust released a bonus episode in
it.
It's called Kneeling at the BBCAltar.
Ooh, yeah, I was the queen ofthe glory hole.
(04:59):
So, anyway, that bonus episodeis a recount of all of my
naughty little things that I gotup to at the Splash Mocha party
.
So you can catch that on theprivate podcast, that's, if you
belong to any one of the threesubscription tiers that supports
the podcast onVenusCuckoldresscom, you get
access to all of the bonusepisodes and the huge library of
(05:22):
bonus episodes so you can go toVenusCuckoldresscom and
subscribe to that if you haven't, or you could just download it
on Apple Podcast subscriptions.
So on Apple Podcasts, the VenusCuckoldress podcast you'll see
all the bonus episodes are onthere as well.
Links in the show notes fortoday.
Last announcement in the shownotes for today Last
(05:50):
announcement I've been talkingabout recently on episodes on
here about Blue Sky, the BlueSky app, and I fucking love it.
It was one of my helpful Cuckmembers who he DM'd me and was
like hey, have you heard aboutthe Blue Sky app?
And I was like no, I have noidea what that is and he's
like's, just like twitter.
But it's better and he's right.
So I have shut down my twitter,which fucking felt amazing
(06:12):
because I, like myself and manyother women on there, have faced
so much vitriol and hate andjust a lot of shit really over,
especially over over the lastfew months, the last year.
It's been really not a niceplace to be, so I haven't really
spent much time on there.
So I've shut that down andmoved over entirely to Blue Sky,
(06:37):
the Blue Sky app, and it is solovely there, like everyone is
so nice and it's very muchinteractive way more interactive
than before.
They have these starter packthings, which is pretty fucking
awesome.
Basically, like you can put allyour favorite accounts in one
list and share it with otherpeople and like here, follow
these peeps, and they can justlike with one click of a button,
(06:59):
follow them all.
Oh, it's awesome.
So, anyway, blue Sky fun placeto be.
It's growing by like a millionpeople a day because it's really
popular right now.
But if you don't follow me onthere, make sure you look me up.
My handle is at CuckoldressV,same one as Twitter, and yeah,
it's a great place.
So the link is in the shownotes for today.
If you want to go and join, allright.
(07:22):
That's it for announcements.
Let's jump in to this episode.
Here we go, all right, joiningme on the show today.
I have such a fantastic guest.
I'm really excited for this.
Sarah Perry is joining me andhere's a little bit about her.
Sarah is a radically inclusivefeminist from Venezuela that
(07:45):
deeply identifies with the roleof a healer, mother and holder
of space.
She guides two powerful,growing humans and a slew of
otherwise uncomfortable peoplein her private practice in
Houston, texas.
She holds an undergrad inwomen's gender and sexuality
studies, a master's in generalpsychology and a certification
(08:09):
of sexological bodywork andsomatic sex education.
Her current goals are expandingher own neurological capacity
for pleasure and attention andadvocating for ASECT I've heard
of this certification forgraduates of the field of SSE
and SBW and eventually garneringinsurance support so more
(08:30):
people can have access to thistype of healing.
So, sarah, welcome to the show.
Say hello to all the listeners.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Hi everyone.
I'm Sarah and I want to givethe land acknowledgement to the
land that I personally amsitting on is unceded and also
unowned land of the nomadictribes of the Sana peoples, the
Itakapa Ishak speaking people,the Kwatwitlikans and the
Karankawa.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
I'm just amazed how you pronounced all of that, and
I love that you did that.
So thank you so much.
Okay, you are what you call asomatic sex coach.
So I've heard of a sex coach,obviously, but I've never heard
of a somatic sex coach, so I hadto look it up.
So, and I'm excited to talkabout this, so what is that?
(09:15):
How is it different from like asex coach?
Speaker 2 (09:18):
So I use the term coach because it has to do with
finding solutions.
So so many people can be allkinds of coaches for different
things.
Specifically for me it'ssexuality and intimacy.
But somatics has to do with theintegration of the idea of
what's your mind, your spiritand your body.
So we talk about somatics.
We talk about what if all thosewere one thing and the messages
(09:39):
that your body's giving youevery time you have an itch or a
gut feeling and it's like avery specific tension.
What if all of those things areactually just as much a part of
your brain and so much a partof your spirit?
So we integrate all of that tostart paying attention to the
messages of our body and notjust rationalizing our way.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Right, so it sounds very holistic.
Yeah, absolutely Okay.
So I'm excited to have you onthe show because I've had, you
know, I've talked aboutcuckolding for so many years and
I sometimes romanticize it alot and it's just this beautiful
, amazing kind of like oh, it'san amazing kind of relationship
and it's just so bonding and soloving, so trusting and all
(10:23):
these things like thatrelationship and it's just so
bonding and so loving, sotrusting and all these things
like that.
But in real life it's not easyand there are a lot of big
emotions and feelings and issuesthat can come up with couples
and I've had them reach out overmany years.
Lots of people say can youplease have someone on your show
who can help with that?
So I'm so happy to have you onthe show today so we can go over
(10:46):
some of these like commonissues that couples have,
singles or couples have when itcomes to cuckolding or the
cuckolding lifestyle or thiskind of relationship.
So I'm excited, let's dig in.
So now, like I know that withcuckoldolding, this is mostly a
(11:07):
relationship for couples, right,there are some singles who, uh,
can I guess, hire like adominatrix or prodom and have
like a cuckolding session, andthat's something you know,
something on its own, but thisis mostly for couples, so this
is within the realm of anexisting relationship.
Then there are singles who are,like myself, out there in the
(11:29):
dating world being like, okay,this is something that I want to
have, and that has its own setof like difficulties.
But what I have found over theyears is that you know, there's
some very specific challengesaround cuckolding, that, when it
comes to like women or men,around things like shame or fear
(11:54):
of being, you know, outed, orthe discretion part is like
major and stuff like that.
So how do you, how would you beable to in your practice that?
So how do you, how would you beable to, in your practice, like
, be able to help couples whenit comes?
Speaker 2 (12:09):
to these kinds of things.
So it would be really specificto the person coming and having
an issue.
If the couple comes in becausethey both want to seek a
solution, normally one of themit's kind of more comfortable
with the role and the other onewants some other tools and
support.
So I think a lot of the waythat we start is because we
(12:29):
always go little by little.
You're like listening to whatyour body's saying and learning
to feel comfortable in thatsensation and it can't happen
like bam, here's the scary thing.
You have to feel it because youdisassociate, right.
So what happens is we starthaving conversations and then we
create these scenarios.
At first they can betheoretical, like imagine you
(12:52):
are at a bar and your boss walksin or a peer walks in and your
wife is actually talking toanother guy, like how do we
navigate this?
So then we go through how doesthat feel in your body?
Right, let's talk about thisemotion.
We go through how does thatfeel in your body, let's talk
about this emotion.
Then we just break down whatcould happen, like what are the
real consequences?
Because most of us have all ofthese big anxieties about things
(13:14):
that are really unlikely tohappen.
Yes, but our bodies show up forus because they protect us.
It's like this amazing tool wehave Right.
It's like this amazing tool wehave right.
So, acknowledging that thatanxiety is a message and saying,
oh, I'm so lucky that I get tohave a body that communicates
transparently and now that I'vegotten the message, I can
process it however I choose to,is just so important and so
(13:39):
empowering.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Once you have that, you have kind of the stepping
stones for moving forward inhowever you want to feel met
okay, something just reallyresonated with me with what you
said, because you were talkingabout the fear being greater
than it.
You know it's kind ofexaggerated.
One of the fears that I'm surefor all the guys listening right
now, I know you can relate whenI tell you this.
(14:04):
Like so many of the guys whoI've met have had this like
enormous fear of being outed,that enormous fear of somebody
finding out that they're intothis and this.
I've always said like it's verydetrimental, not just to
themselves but to theirrelationships or potential
(14:25):
relationships or dating orwhatever.
And it like it is hard for mebecause I'm like, ok, I
understand that you don't wantother people to find out.
I get that Like not everybody'sme flaunting that this is what
they like to do in the bedroom,but like, but to live in so much
fear over that that it kind oflike rules your life, this, this
(14:46):
like huge fear and and how,when you want your partner to
engage with this with you,you're kind of inviting them
into that fear space as well andthat can't be healthy.
So I like have you come acrossa lot of this in your practice
where guys are like especiallybecause you know you're within
(15:08):
the sexuality realm, where guysand women, of course, but
especially guys when it comes toa fetish or a desire or fantasy
like cuckolding, which is verytaboo and very, like you know,
challenges the idea ofmasculinity and stuff that they
have this like irrational fearof being outed.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Yeah, this is absolutely something that I'm
even processing with clientsthat I have right now is how we
reconcile masculinity withvulnerability, and that all has
to do with this very toxicsociety that we all contribute
to that doesn't have a clearpath for that.
I actually heard from someoneyesterday a friend of mine that
(15:52):
in Ireland the tradition ofbeing like a macho fighter man
actually came back full circlebecause that macho man was not
considered a true fighter unlesshe came home and wept and wrote
poetry about his battles.
Yeah, and so it's reallyinteresting that this is coming
up now, because I didn't knowthat about that concept.
But it's so funny how nowthat's been totally erased right
(16:15):
, like not just the idea thatyou could possibly enjoy your
wife enjoying other people, butalso the fact that you enjoy her
being powerful comes across asyou being less powerful.
But if we're trying torationalize it, the person that
has control in power,differential dynamics is always
(16:37):
the person that chooses to giveup control, that's the person
who makes the ultimate choice ofcontrol, the person who says I
trust you, I feel safety withyou.
The moment that person doesn'tfeel that anymore, it's gone.
So ultimately, the submissiveperson a hundred percent of the
time, is carrying the weight ofthat.
(17:00):
So when we start to rationalizeit, if we want to rationalize
it, that, so, when we start torationalize it, if we want to
rationalize it absolutely, theposition of being the submissive
or being cuckolded thentranslates to you being actually
more powerful, because you wereso powerful that you were safe
enough in your power that youwere free to relinquish it.
(17:20):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Oh my God, I have been thinking that in my mind
for so many years.
You've just articulated itperfectly.
This is always something that Ifelt like where?
Because I feel like for a lotof the guys it's just like oh, I
can't give up.
I can't give up who I am,because you know she's going to
(17:44):
disrespect me or she won't lookat me the same or whatever.
And here I am saying thatactually, we see that gift that
you're giving us of trust andsafety and giving up that power,
and that being so monumentaland just so amazing that we look
at you in awe.
That's amazing that my partner,who I love, is able to do this,
(18:09):
and but guys, just like so manyof them, just don't.
They don't see that, they don'tsee that possibility.
And I'm here, um, myself andmany other women, like, oh my
God, if, if you were just togive up that bit of power and
and like we would adore you forit, I've, oh my god, I love that
.
You just said that.
That was like a big moment forme when you just said so.
(18:31):
I hope that everybody who'slistening actually like rewinds
and replays that over again.
Maybe I'll put it in thetrailer because like that was
fucking amazing.
I, I love that so much.
That's, that's very, verypowerful.
So what other kind of issues doyou see with like these power
dynamic relationships such ascuckolding?
Speaker 2 (18:49):
I think it's really important to have not only clear
boundaries but permission, notjust from your spouse but from
yourself, to change your mindabout what those boundaries are
Like.
When I think about society as awhole, we have a very hard time
making it easy to change ourminds.
That comes from this culture oflike what is it?
(19:11):
Winners don't quit.
Yes, they do.
A lot of people quit terriblerelationships and close
businesses.
You absolutely have a skill ifyou know how to quit, but it's
the same if you have a skillwhen you know how to pivot and
change your mind.
And it's the same withboundaries.
A lot of times we don't realizewe had a boundary until we
cross it or it's been crossed.
We have to assume that ourpartner didn't intend to cross
(19:34):
our boundaries, unless that'swhat was hot, in which case you
can be like oh, that one was alittle bit crunchy than I
thought it was going to be Okay,or just assume that they
weren't trying to be hurtful andthen move on and say can we
renegotiate the way that thiswhole thing happened?
And a lot of that specificallyin like sharing partners can
look like.
(19:54):
Maybe my time during thesespecific moments needs to be
prioritized more than time withthese other partners that you
have Right, and it could be like, I don't know, if you're having
a really sad day or sometimes,when you have a sad day, you
prefer that they go away so youcan be alone.
All of that can be negotiated,but it's so critical to be okay
(20:17):
changing your mind.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Okay, and I love that .
It's so funny because, like,I've talked to a lot of newbie
couples into cuckolding over theyears and like yeah, by far the
first, one of the firstboundaries that they come up
together with is like no,kissing the bull.
So she's not allowed to kissthe bull, because that would be
like kind of romantic and wedon't want that because that's
(20:40):
dangerous, and like no, this isjust sex.
So but that's the firstboundary that gets crossed, that
one just flies out the window.
Why?
Because she's, she needs tofeel comfortable in that moment.
She needs to feel like she's init, you know, and that she's in
(21:00):
her sexuality.
And and I don't know about you,but for me the last thing I'm
doing when I'm in that moment ofsexual pleasure is scrolling
through the checklist of oh, canI do that or can I not do that,
like it's just that's reallyguaranteed to get me out of the
mood real quick if I got tothink about that shit.
(21:20):
So within cuckolding I haveexperienced lots of couples who
have had challenges around that.
Where she's in the moment, shejust feels like her body wants
something, her mind wantssomething, her mind wants that,
she wants to do something andshe does it and then afterwards
she's like oh fuck, like Iwasn't supposed to do that yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Yeah, I want to say that, being the person that
tends to facilitate peoplechanging their relationship
dynamics, we all want to sitdown and have this like laundry
list of crap that we'reexpecting and we're like I know
this is going to be weird andlike we want to be in the same
room, or you can't be in adifferent room, or you can't
talk to someone when I'm not inthe room.
(22:02):
We have all these rules, right,but all of those rules are
really there as kind of a netfor us to feel comfortable with
something that feels super edgy,right?
So if you're doing the work tofocus on staying super present
with your own emotions and yourown sensation in your body,
eventually that net is.
(22:23):
That's all it was.
It was a framework.
Everything inside of that canbe negotiated.
In fact, if you established adynamic like cuckolding already,
you know that everything can benegotiated.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
This is very true, yeah, okay.
So I love what you said aboutlike it being a net, because it
really is, and that's how I kindof felt, like I understand why
there is the need for theserules, boundaries and limits and
stuff like that.
It's about keeping your comfortzone, boundaries where they are
(23:01):
Right, and perhaps those twodon't.
Two things don't line up andI'm sure, like you said, you see
that in your practice all thetime.
Where, like, people are tryingto negotiate stuff like that.
I saw that a lot in the swingersworld.
When I was involved in thatbefore I knew about cuckolding,
I was like there was so muchnegotiating back and forth about
, yes, you have same room, no,you know, okay, if it's not the
(23:26):
same room, but I have to get youmy position permission first,
or like there's all these littlethings and I remember thinking
like, god, that seems like a lotto remember, a lot to deal with
, but couples do it and they,they, they do it because they
want each other to feel safe andsecure and all this, the net,
and a lot of times that's justlike the stepping stone into
(23:48):
actually just go, do whateverthe hell you want.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
see you tonight.
Right, you know so, and it hasto happen, because we've been
taught that you won't be safeunless you are jealous.
We've been taught that youwon't be safe if your partner
can explore other people.
But we don't live in that worldanymore.
Like, I can probably still feedmyself and my children if my
spouse chooses not to be with me.
Do you know what I'm saying?
(24:10):
Yeah, so our safety gauge isstill that safety gauge, but we
live in this world whereactually we're going to be fine.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Yeah, we're gonna be okay.
Okay, let's talk about jealousyBecause, yes, okay.
Over the years, many, many,many cucks have reached out to
me not knowing how to deal withthis cucky angst, I call it,
which is that like mix ofemotions.
This is terribly sexy and hot.
She's going out with this otherguy.
(24:39):
She's never been out withanother guy.
Like this is.
I'm scared, I'm nervous, I feellike I'm going to throw up, but
also I'm insanely turned on.
This is like this crazy thing ofemotional stuff that happens
with cucks when their partner isgoing to be having some sort of
sexual encounter with somebodyelse.
(25:00):
How they deal with that,because it's one thing to watch
cuck porn and be like, oh,that's fucking hot and sexy and
everything like that, and awhole other thing in real life
to do this.
It can go horribly wrong and Ilove the fact that you're you
know in this holistic mode ofhealing and coaching with people
(25:20):
, because this involves likecuck angst, involves
understanding what your body isgoing through.
One minute they want to throwup.
The next minute they've had thebest orgasm of their life.
Poor cucks like this is a lotto go through.
How can guys anticipate whatthat might be like for them or
navigate it when they're goingthrough it in a healthy way
(25:42):
where it's not going to bedetrimental to their
relationship.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Okay.
So totally yes.
I want to acknowledge that thisdefinitely happens and it
happens to people who have beendoing it forever as well.
I think that it's important totalk about, like the physiology
of it.
Biologically, the same part ofour brain that's responsible for
sexual arousal is responsiblefor other forms of arousal, so
(26:07):
like being scared and runningaway or freezing right or
fawning like you're going intofake mode so that someone will
be happy with you.
So it makes sense that a lot ofthese emotions happen at the
same time as very intensearousal.
I would suggest to people tocreate a boundary within
(26:28):
yourself about maybe if yourpartner is going on a date this
is a conversation that needs tobe had long after, not when the
partner arrives from the datelike you don't get to throw a
fit tantrum so that then you getmore attention.
Acknowledge like, oh, it wouldbe really nice and accommodating
to get more attention, and I'lljust say I would love a lot of
attention when you get home andyou can say that at the end of
(26:49):
the day you don't have tointerrupt the day, right, it's
like make little boundarieswithin yourself that seem
attainable, okay, and then whenyou're talking about those
boundaries later reallyacknowledge what was going on
with your body.
If you're in that moment whereyou're like processing all this
crazy sensation, there's allkinds of YouTube videos for
(27:11):
somatic body scans and that'sliterally just a guided way to
pay attention to everywhere,from the tip of your nose to the
tips of your toes, to say, okay, this part was tense.
What happens if I release it,like once?
Usually, if you have like a lotof tension in your stomach, you
can change your posture andthat dissipates.
(27:32):
We have so much control overour what we're interpreting as a
feeling if we just change ourbody posture.
So, using some kind of guidethat can keep you engaged while
still paying attention to what'shappening to your body and find
ways to like change thatposture and therefore that
(27:53):
emotion and sensation can belike unleashing to this new
power that you have, overtakingsome control about how you're
showing up with anxiety or with,you know, angst.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Oh, my gosh.
I think that was one of thebest suggestions, because I, up
until now, haven't had much tosuggest to these guys that are
going through that and I knowthey reach out to other cuckolds
and like, okay, like what do Ido?
Like I'm going through this.
They're literally like havingthis anxiety, like meltdown,
like oh my God and help, I'mlike what do I do?
(28:29):
But the YouTube videosregarding, like paying attention
to how your body is feeling andmaking corrections yes, this is
definitely something that guyscan do.
So what?
What is something that womencan do to help support their
partner during that process?
I did have a couple on the showand this was brilliant.
(28:51):
She wrote him a beautifulletter before she left and
sealed the envelope and was likethis is for you if you need it,
if you go through, if you'relosing it, if you're shutting
down, if you're having thatmoment where you're just like
open this and read it.
And he did.
I don't know what it said, hedidn't share, but like I just
(29:13):
thought that was so nice to beable to like think about that
ahead of time and provide thatkind of comfort for your partner
.
I thought that was amazing.
Do you have any suggestions forwhat women could do to help
support their guy when it comesto that?
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Yeah, I think that's a really sweet idea.
It makes me, it inspires,inspires me to think of like
things that your partner enjoysdoing.
Like in psychology we talkabout sublimation sometimes.
Like a good way to handle bigemotions that are negative is to
distract yourself with otherpositive things, like going to
(29:47):
work out or cleaning the closet.
You know, for some people andmost of us engage in those
behaviors naturally I personallythink that that's a form of
disassociation and that it'sokay to feel big emotions, like
we would benefit from justsitting in our big emotions and
then think long-term it makes usbetter people.
But if we're not able to safeenough, comfortable enough to
(30:09):
yet, then go sublimate, go doall the stuff you want to do.
Maybe plan something for yourspouse to be distracted, like
have, like him, go out with theguys for drinks while you're out
and even if it's on his mind,there'll be something going on.
Or maybe he could go to a movieor something that he enjoys to
do and you can plan it for him.
(30:30):
And then you have a little bitof that like acts of service
thing, cause you planned it.
So we know you were thinkingabout them and you also have
something that's activelydistracting them.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
A list of things to do.
The cookie list keep him busy,I love it.
The cookie do list, yeah.
The cookie to do list, I loveit, okay.
And then for women this isanother big issue that I've come
across is that, like a lot ofwomen feel shame around their
own sexuality, I, luckily, havenever felt that.
(31:06):
I don't think I just always beenslutty and been like, oh,
whatever, it's all good, but Ihaven't struggled with it like
most women have or do, and I getthat.
I could totally understand whythey feel so much pressure to
not, you know, enjoy andcelebrate their sexuality, but
in a cuckolding relationship itkind of requires them to do so.
(31:28):
So you'll have, like thiscouple They've been married for
a very long time and, and youknow, monogamous the whole time
and then he shares his desiresand fantasies around cuckolding
with her and she's like, oh, Idon't think I could do that,
like I would feel so dirty, Iwould feel so slutty, like what?
Like I don't think I could dothat.
And this is a real stumblingblock for them.
(31:50):
I am sure you come across thisin your practice, where you know
women have to deal with sexualshame and guilt.
How do you best support them orhelp them with this.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
I think all we can do is try to like relight the
match, because there was a timethat they were attracted to
other men and likely throughsociety and through years that
got suppressed, you know.
So you can just start little bylittle.
You could start being like,well, maybe don't go on a date
and hook up with that guy, butwhen we're at a bar start
telling me why you thinksomeone's attractive, you know,
(32:23):
and just start little by little.
You don't have to like jumpinto the deep end and I promise
there will be a day.
If you go out enough byyourself at some point, there
will be a moment that you meetpeople that you think are
attractive and want to shareyour body with Absolutely, and
so it doesn't have to beimmediately.
If you find a little path tostart like trickling in the
(32:44):
attraction for other people, Ithink it reignites.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Oh, that's a great tip.
I think it's like all thesepoor guys.
Guys, when they bring it up tothe wife they usually do it so
wrong.
They're like I just want you togo fuck a bunch of other dudes
and I'm gonna watch like it'sgrabbing one right and she's
just like what, first of allwhat?
So start small, and there is somuch fun that couples can have
(33:11):
without her actually sleepingwith other guys.
Like it's a little bit scary tosleep with a random stranger
dude.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Um not to mention it's like literally putting our
lives in danger absolutely indifferent ways too.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
I mean there's, yeah, there's, you know you could be
assaulted.
Um, you could have yourphysical health like fucked up
because of it.
Like you can I mean now, not tomention all the abortion bans
and everything yeah, you'refucked if something happens.
So, as a woman, but yes,starting slow and doing fun
(33:48):
things, even just talking abouta roleplay and everything like
that Like guys, come on, howcome you don't think about this,
you just go straight to the,the porn ending in their mind,
like in their mind they're just,and then they're dealing with
all of the backlash, of thatright.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Then they're dealing with all the angst and all the
when.
Really, if you would havetitrated the whole thing from
the start, it probably wouldhave worked out a lot better for
both.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Oh, yeah, yes, okay, guys, listening, guys, listening
I hope you're listening to whatshe just said Absolutely
Because, yeah, you're gonna jumpin with both, you know, with
both feet, and just be likeAlright, let's do this.
And then she's gonna go sleepwith this other guy and like, oh
, holy mad, there's so manythings that can go wrong with
that, but yeah, I also want toyour way up to it.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
We didn't.
We didn't really startdiscussing this, but a lot of
times the people that women areattracted to at least in my
experience as being a woman arepeople that you've already had
some contact with, For example,friends, coworkers, right, and
most of those people are on thedo not fuck list, right?
(34:51):
Yeah, there's always going tobe this little contingency of,
oh, you want me to go sleep witha bunch of people.
Well, Joe Blow over here hasbeen hanging out at our house
for three years and I think he'skind of cute.
And then your spouse is goingto say, well, absolutely not
right.
At least at first I'm notsaying never, but isn't it
(35:13):
interesting that we have to finda way to kind of curb that
leaping point?
You can't be so eager that itgives someone permission to
cross boundaries.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
that could be like really damaging boundaries for
you and for your family andmaybe for your work life, right,
I found that a lot, actually,where a new couple is so he's
like I want you to fuck some guyand I want to watch whatever.
And then eventually she getsaway like okay, but he wants it
to be a random stranger for safelike, because he doesn't want
(35:45):
her to catch feelings, right, hewants it to be just sex, like
this guy's just gonna be a dickand that that's it like and
that's his like comfort level.
Okay, but her comfort level issomething entirely different.
Like you said, like she wantsto know this person, she wants
to feel safe with them, shewants to.
Most women say they want tohave some sort of connection
(36:06):
with that person.
They don't want it to just beI'm just going to fuck this
random dude and then leave, likethey want, like to know, they
want to talk to them, get toknow them.
It's about emotional andphysical safety, and so you have
this disconnect where couplescan't agree on something like
that.
Or she's like oh, maybe I'llsleep with my ex or something
(36:26):
like that, which I'm like, holyshit, you want to really
complicate things.
The potential for disaster, Idon't know, seems pretty high.
It's crazy, okay, so how?
Like I know that it's with allof these sensations and emotions
and stuff, and we talked aboutdifferent strategies around
(36:49):
managing cuck angst and theguilt and the shame and stuff
like that.
But all of the cuckold coupleswho I know, who are thriving in
this lifestyle, they do this.
One thing often is check inwith each other and communicate
about how they're feeling, butthis is not something I think
(37:09):
that a lot of couples regular,everyday couples like actually
practice.
But this seems to be the key tosuccess when it comes to this
kind of relationship.
How would you recommend couplesgo about doing that?
Actually, do they schedule time?
How do people get in theroutine of doing that?
Speaker 2 (37:29):
I think you just have to be.
It has to be on purpose.
If you have to schedule it,schedule it.
But I don't know how yourschedule is.
Mine is if you put something onmy calendar, odds are I'll be
busy that day in a week, like itjust changes Right.
So there's something I lovecalled the five minute game, and
we play it.
It's kind of a powerdifferential game where you
would set a timer for fiveminutes and then one person gets
(37:53):
to choose if they wantsomething done to them or if
they want to do something to theother person for the five
minutes.
It could be sexual ornon-sexual, but most of the time
we're craving connection, soany kind of touch is nice.
Sometimes it could be like Iwant you to just brush my hair
and it turns out that fiveminutes is a really long time.
That's why we set a timer.
(38:14):
And having these purposefulconnections with people, with
your partner, brings you back tofeeling loved and taken care of
, when you can ask for what youwant.
If what you want is to put yourhands on them like I don't know
, maybe your partner has like afun part of their body that you
like to squish or play with that.
They typically wouldn't allowyou to just because it's like
(38:37):
doesn't happen.
That's a good time to ask forthat, and those five minutes are
also a great time to have aconversation about how you're
doing.
Like, oh, I really missed youwhen I did this the other day
and I thought of you and yourhands are busy so you're not on
your phone and typicallychildren are pretty good about
leaving you alone.
If you're very connected tosomeone else for the moment and
(38:59):
if they're there, then they canbe a part of it, like I'm jump
on, but I'm doing this thingLike I'm brushing mom's hair
right now, you know, and make itjust a part of your check-in.
And I like to make it a rulethat good relationships have a
five-minute game at least once aweek, and we think it's hard to
find time to get together.
But if you can't take fiveminutes and that can be
(39:23):
unscheduled, right, so it's notlike it could just be.
You got out of the shower andyou're like do you have five
minutes for the five minute game?
And most of the time, even ifyou're running late, you have
five minutes.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
I love that.
I think that's so important.
I would definitely have toschedule stuff like that Cause,
like I just feel like I forget,I would forget.
You know you get so caught upin everyday thing the everyday
life of busy shit, you know,especially you know parenthood
like you forget everything elseJust so involved in that.
(39:54):
Okay, so one of the things thata lot of the guys in this
lifestyle have written to meabout, talk to me about, ask me
about, book private chats to meabout, is the same issue in that
they brought this up to theirwife.
You know she, you know, mayhave participated in talking
(40:16):
about it or whatever.
Maybe they did some role playor maybe they, you know, use
some toys in the bedroom orsomething like that, but over a
period of time she kind of losesinterest in it and he feels
like he's like pushing this moreand more and they're like how
do I get my wife back into beinginterested in this?
And this is like so commonacross the board.
(40:39):
What do you think's going onwith that?
Did women just really like, arethey just disinterested?
Is it just a matter of themkind of getting them back into
it, or is this something?
Speaker 2 (40:50):
else.
I think that we're cyclical,like we tend to be really into
stuff and then we get over thatthing and then we're really into
something else, and then andthat doesn't mean we're not into
that thing I think we tend tobe really into stuff and then we
get over that thing and thenwe're really into something else
, and then that doesn't meanwe're not into that thing.
I think we tend to be more intothings that are easier to
accomplish than going to sleepwith someone else.
Theoretically, that's very easyto accomplish, but it's not
quite that simple, right.
(41:11):
So I think we get like kind ofnavigate towards things that are
easier to accomplish.
Like maybe we're really intobutt plugs for a while, because
you own them and they're there,so you don't have to like hunt
them down every time and feelsafe with them, and you know
what I'm saying.
So I think we're all cyclicaland I think you can absolutely
(41:33):
bring someone back around tosomething if you just let it
rest for a minute, becauseotherwise it gets annoying.
It gets like well, what are youtalking?
Like I like other things, right?
So I think it's important toallow someone to have their
little ebb and flow.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Oh, I love that.
So for the cuckies listening,make sure that you understand
that maybe she just needs alittle bit of a break sometimes
and that's okay.
I feel like from the cucks whoI've met and talked to over the
years, this is very muchsomething that they think about
all the time, every day, thatthey're constantly thinking
(42:10):
about these fantasies, that thisis something that is really big
and important to them.
Okay, then, the next question Ihave for you is another very
common situation that I see inthis lifestyle, in that he
brings it up to her.
She wants nothing to do with it, nothing to do with it.
(42:30):
And I feel bad for these couplesbecause I mean, just maybe
she's just like it's not into it, like is that?
And I tell these guys, I'm like, if, if you had, if she had,
this, this fetish, where youwere just like, oh, there's no
fucking way, like there's no way, what would you do?
Like I mean, it's not an easysituation to be in when somebody
(42:51):
wants nothing to do with thisother person's deep desires,
deep, deep fantasies, likesomething that is such a big,
seems to be a big part of whatthey want in their life.
And what do you do?
Are these couples just notcompatible?
Like are they.
What should they do?
Speaker 2 (43:08):
I mean, I think you kind of hit the nail on the head
right.
I think sometimes you're justnot into it and it's okay we
don't do.
First of all, we tend not toknow what we're even into when
we first meet our partners.
But even if we are, that stillchanges over time.
It's okay for your partners tohave different like what I call
(43:28):
like triggers, like the thingthat really makes you come than
you.
It's totally okay.
Hopefully they're still willingto engage in some form of
fantasy play, and I think thatplanting the seed for kind of
fantasy play eventually loosenspeople up to the idea because we
create patterns, so like ifit's always hot and we're always
telling the sexy story, thenmaybe it might happen.
(43:51):
I'm not saying force it right,but I'm saying the odds of it
happening are much more than ifyou would have never said
anything.
So I still think sometimesthey're just not going to be
into it.
Hopefully your partners arestill willing to like sauce
things up, to turn you on whenyou're having sex, and maybe
(44:12):
that leads to something more.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
And for the ladies listening, like it's so easy
just to say that little thingwhen you're having sex with your
husband.
Just whisper in his ear like,oh, totally fucked.
That guy I saw on the bus today, like that's all you need to
say and boom, he's happy as fuck.
For a week after that he'sriding on this high of like oh
my God, I can't believe what shesaid.
(44:35):
That was so hot.
This is literally all we needto say to and and I feel like if
you really love your partner,then you will find ways to have
indulged their fantasies likethat because it is important to
them.
And if and that's what you dowhen you love somebody doesn't
mean you have to go and fuck abunch of dudes, but you can
(44:56):
learn to say these awesomelittle things, hot little things
that are going to set them offcompletely into like I can't
control myself when we're havingsex.
That is hot.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
Yeah, not to mention the fact that it's also a form
of like being seen for yourpartner to think that it's
worthy of you to have thosethings you think are sexy, even
in play, right.
It's like it will make someonefeel much better that you were
honest about what you wanted.
If they can like, reciprocate.
(45:28):
If they can say that is hot,babe, I see it, I get what
you're saying.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
Yes, yeah, and that's like the nice thing to do, I
think, for your partner.
You know, like you said, tofeel seen and to to make them
feel loved.
That's how you make somebodyfeel loved and safe in your
relationship.
So OK, now my last question.
We've talked about couples alot, but what about the singles?
(45:52):
What about the singles Likepart of the tricky part around
dating in this lifestyle,knowing that you want somebody
who also is open minded to yourfantasies around cuckolding your
desires, around cuckolding andseeking that out there is this
like challenge Do you bring itup right in the beginning with
(46:21):
somebody or do you wait untillater on, let's say, six months
to a year into the relationshipwhere you bring it up.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
What do you recommend ?
I think it depends.
I'm actually in the process ofdealing with this with a few of
my clients right now who aresingle and looking for partners,
and I think it depends on whatultimately they're looking for.
If what they're looking for isto have a long-term, committed
relationship and this isinstrumental in that design then
yeah, I think you can be honestat the beginning and say, look,
(46:47):
I'm really into this, I likeestablish some kind of what
boundary you would like Like forsome people.
I have a client who has nointerest in exploring other
people himself, and I think thatcould be very important to a
lot of women.
So being able to communicatethat that's not the interest I
have.
This is something I've reallybeen into and I know that it's
(47:09):
what I want from my future andfrom my wife and the mother of
my children, and it's okay forthat not to be what someone
wants Like it's really fine andit's probably better to be in
that situation than to be inwhat we were referring to
earlier, where they've beenmarried maybe for years and
years and years and they're likehell.
No, and, by the way, sometimesthey're not even like accepting
(47:33):
of that Sometimes they're likedisgusted Right.
So you don't want to be stuckin the situation where you're
having to fight your own shamebecause in your house there's
shame about what you like.
Speaker 1 (47:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
Right.
I also think that if you arejust casually dating, you just
want a girlfriend and to do thatyou don't have to say it right
away.
I think you can casually dateand that it's more likely to
happen that way, because most ofthe time people make the lines
of sexuality and monogamy reallyblurry when it's not a cemented
(48:04):
relationship.
So that's probably a morelikely space for that to happen
than already inside of a supercommitted dynamic or with
someone who's like wanting acommitment commitment because it
just feels unsafe Right.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
Yeah, yeah, very good advice on that, I agree.
I definitely have been one tobe like it.
Just it depends where you arein life.
You're casually dating in your20s and you're just like, oh
fuck it, who cares?
Like I'm just out here havingfun, then who cares?
But if you are looking for yourlife partner, I mean it makes
(48:40):
all the sense in the world to meto bring it up in the beginning
and figure out, like do we lineup with this or not?
But I think how you bring it upto a person is also very
important, how you word it.
Yeah, I've said over and overagain on the show, like do not
say you want cuckolding.
Do not bring up kink language.
Like don't say anything aboutthat, just talk about it being a
one-sided, open relationshipthat you're looking for, where
(49:01):
she gets extra fun and you bothlove it that way.
Just keep it simple.
Ask me more about it.
You know that kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
But I think it would be really a good idea for us to
get together and create a kindof script for good language to
use.
Like we use that all the timein my practice and it would be
really helpful for us to havelike cue words that were like
throw these in there, thesemight work better.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
You know, absolutely.
I think guys are starved forthat kind of information because
they truly don't know how toput it out there in a way that
doesn't turn off a lot of womenunnecessarily.
And but then there's the otherproblem of like most guys, let's
face it are way too scared toput anything about this on their
dating profile or bring it upto my men.
(49:45):
So there's that.
We talked about this Cuck shame.
Speaker 2 (49:49):
So yeah, I do want to say that something we didn't
mention at all that I think isimportant is that for all of the
people listening who are veryscared to be outed, think about
what it would be like to findout that one of your best
friends is also into that.
Think about what it would belike to find out that your dad
was into that, or your boss, andhow freeing that would have
(50:09):
been.
And I think that it's a tonmore common than we realize.
It is that guys think thatthat's sexy and there's a lot of
freedom that can happen if weare safe enough to tell just one
friend, not to mention the factthat we feel much better when
we're not hiding something aboutourselves.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
Yes, I would really like for guys to be able to
understand what you just said.
It's still very incrediblyscary for a lot of men to even
think about that, though, so Ithink there's some work that
needs to be done, but I do havefriends who have, who are open
about it.
I mean, they don't go out, likeyou know, purposely telling
everybody, but they're openabout it to people in their life
(50:54):
and nothing catastrophic hashappened to them.
It's amazing.
The world didn't end, theydidn't lose their job, they
didn't lose friends, they didn'tlose family.
Like it was it very freeing, andevery one of them says that is
very freeing actuallyinterviewed somebody on the show
who was and this is a shittystory, but um sextorted, and
(51:16):
this person, who pretended to bea woman, got his pictures and
threatened to send them to.
I mean, they had all of hisboss's information, his parents,
his ex-wife, like everybody,and instead of paying the money,
he just went and told all ofthese people, and it forced him
(51:37):
out of the closet and he said,like everybody was just like,
all right, whatever, it's finethey don't care.
Even his boss was like it's fine, whatever, you have nothing to
worry about.
And even his parents they werelike, oh, what did you, what'd
you do that for?
But they didn't care, you know.
And he said like this was avery freeing experience for him
(51:58):
and that like he doesn't have toworry about any of that anymore
.
Nobody judged him Like it wasstressful as hell, but like life
didn't end.
Speaker 2 (52:07):
There's also this weird phenomenon of like the
compulsory need to talk aboutfetishes where no one feels the
need to talk about fucking inmissionary style.
You know, for some reason youdon't have to disclose.
I like to have doggy style sex,but you have to disclose.
I like to get pegged.
So it's like it's not an evenlike no one actually cares about
(52:28):
your sexuality, unless you'retransgressive or gay.
Otherwise, like you never haveto come out of the closet as
straight.
Does that make sense?
Yes, so I hate the rhetoric.
Like you never actually have tocome out of the closet as
straight.
Does that make sense?
Yes, so I hate the rhetoric.
Like you never actually have tocome out of the closet.
You don't actually ever have todo anything for anyone.
And also, people are a lot lessconcerned with what you're
doing with your partner, thatyou are committed and loving,
(52:50):
especially if your life isotherwise stable.
It's like that's the thing I'venoticed Like if your life is a
wreck, then everyone's judgingall your kinky shit, but if your
life is like, put together,everyone's like oh, that's very
interesting of you yes,absolutely, if you're happy
living your best fucking lifetogether.
Speaker 1 (53:09):
I mean, really nobody cares what you're doing in the
bedroom.
Yeah, nobody cares, I love that, okay, um, before I wrap this
up, uh, do you have, like I'mgonna post a link to one of
those YouTube videos that youwere talking about?
Do you have any other resourcesthat you would think would be
helpful for the listeners?
Speaker 2 (53:29):
Well, I love my field of work.
There's not a ton of us, butthere are.
If you look up somatic sexeducators, I think that would be
an amazing place to start, andthere's most of us are doing
virtual work with couples orgroups to some of us.
I have some friends in Canadathat are doing like groups,
group sessions and groupsessions for couples, and so
(53:52):
joining something like thatcould be an amazing way to feel
much more connected to yourpartner, into your own integrity
and like doing what you want tobe doing and in the boundaries
that you want to be doing it.
And so, yeah, I would I reallywould recommend that someone
find someone that studied thekind of stuff I studied, because
it's life changing stuff.
Speaker 1 (54:11):
Oh my God, absolutely .
I can see it being so helpfulfor people who are in this
lifestyle hugely helpful, so Iwill definitely post all the
links that I can in the shownotes for today.
Where can people learn moreabout you and your practice and
everything like that?
Where do you want people tofind more information?
Speaker 2 (54:29):
I have a website, haven space h?
A v?
E?
N space coachingcom, and thenthat has a YouTube channel.
It's the same haven spacecoaching, and an Instagram,
haven space coachingcom, andthen that has a YouTube channel
it's the same Haven SpaceCoaching, and an Instagram Haven
Space Coaching.
So any of those avenues and I'mon LinkedIn.
Sarah Perry, sse.
Somatic Sex Educator.
Speaker 1 (54:49):
And you have a podcast too.
I forgot I listened to yourpodcast.
Like you're out there justruling the world.
I fucking love it.
Speaker 2 (54:54):
The podcast was a COVID project and it's been put
on pause for now, but theepisodes are still out there for
people to listen to.
I think there's like 65.
They're all about differentfetishes.
Once in a while there's acouple of little things that are
different, but in general, Iwould just randomly pick a
fetish, do some research andrecord a podcast about it, so
there's some fun stuff on theretoo.
Speaker 1 (55:15):
Yes, I listened to the cuckolding one.
Very well done, excellent.
I'll post a link to that in theshow notes for today as well.
Sarah, it's been absolutelyfantastic having you on the show
with me.
Speaker 2 (55:27):
Thank you so much for joining me, thanks for having
me.
Speaker 1 (55:31):
That's going to be it for today's episode.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
Make sure you go tovenuscuckoldresscom.
That's where you can book aprivate chat with me, and you
can also join the QueensQuarters community and get all
the amazing benefits, like theprivate podcast and the helpful
cuck tier, where you can get keyholding for the private
(55:52):
Snapchat group, monthly privatechats with me and weekly live
hangouts and invites to speciallive events.
Oh, and you can also submit aquestion or confession for the
show.
Just go to venuscuckledresscomand click on the link that says
the podcast.
Make sure you follow me on bluesky social.
(56:13):
Yes, I said blue sky social.
Fuck twitter.
My handle there is atCuckoldressV.
All right, that's it fortoday's show, you guys.
We'll see you next time.
Bye.
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