March 29, 2025 • 69 mins
Trigger Warning: This episode discusses suicide.
Venus delves into the rarely discussed emotional aftermath of cuckolding through an unflinchingly honest conversation with John, who shares his journey from fantasy to reality – and the mental health crisis that followed.
After 20+ years of marriage, John finally revealed his deepest desire to his wife, setting them on a path neither fully anticipated. While many discussions about cuckolding focus on the erotic thrill, John describes his first real experience with brutal candor: "Fear, nausea... genuinely, just what have I done? Why have I done this to myself? It was horrifying." The raw vulnerability as he recounts coming home and breaking down in tears provides crucial perspective for anyone considering this lifestyle.
What makes John's testimony particularly valuable is the paradoxical psychology he unveils. Despite experiencing severe depression that eventually led to suicidal thoughts, he never wanted to stop – and often desired to escalate their activities. "The most warped thing about all this is that at the absolute lowest points, I wanted to continue," he explains, illuminating how the emotional struggle itself becomes intertwined with the arousal. This emotional complexity extends to feelings of sexual irrelevance that many cuckolds face: "Once your wife gets a bull that's really good at fucking her, you realize that you're not sexually valid in the same way anymore."
Through communication with his wife and developing healthier boundaries, John eventually found balance. His story serves as both caution and guidance for curious couples, highlighting the crucial importance of mental health support when exploring intense kinks. "You don't know how you're going to feel until you do it," he warns, pushing back against the "cheerleading" common in online communities.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Here's what's coming up on the show.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
And then the second time they met, they had sex for
hours in our bed and otherplaces and, honestly, fear
nausea.
I can actually feel it rightnow.
Now I'm thinking about, I canfeel some of those feelings
coming back into me right now,cause I'm I'm almost reliving it
(00:26):
.
Yeah, fear, nausea, um,genuinely, just what have I done
?
Why have I done this to myself?
Why would anyone do this tothemselves?
It was, if I'm, if I'm beingcompletely honest, horrifying.
I can't horrifying, I can'tdescribe as anything else
different to that.
(00:47):
And you know, when I got homebecause I was at work when it
happened I got home from workand we sort of got in bed
together just to sort of talk toeach other and I just cried for
quite a while and it was uglycrying, I can tell you.
Yeah, um, it was just not good.
And at that point my wife waslike, oh my god, this is like.
(01:11):
This is, this is not, it's notright, we shouldn't be doing
this.
And I'm like no, it's okay,I'll get over it.
You know, it's just the firsttime and I love you more than
(01:38):
anything and it's just been ahuge amount to process.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Empowered woman who wants it all.
Let's go.
Welcome to the show.
I'm your host, venus.
Thanks for joining me today.
(02:01):
Today I have, I think, what isone of my most impactful stories
that I've had on the show today.
It is profound and I havethought a lot about this story
since recording it, and I thinka lot of you guys out there are
going to be moved by this story,so I'm excited for you to
(02:23):
listen to it, because so manyguys out there are wondering
about cuckolding and desiring itso much and scared to know what
it might really be like andI've talked about it on the show
being such a great thing andgreat for relationships and
awesome, exciting, thrilling andfun and all that good stuff.
(02:45):
This is the flip side.
This is what happens when itdoes not feel good, when it is
not very healthy for you, and sothis story is fascinating to
hear.
I think you're really going toget a lot out of it.
First, though, I do need tomention trigger warning for
(03:05):
anybody listening to the show.
There is the mention of suicide, so if you are sensitive to
that, you may not want to listento this episode.
Today's show is a cautionarytale, but it's also a very good
time to acknowledge that thereis a great need for individual
(03:28):
and couples therapy, and I knowa lot of men out there get this
knee-jerk reaction when it comesto therapy.
They're like I don't need to goand get help, I'm not mentally
anguished, there's nothing wrongwith me, I don't need to fix
anything, I can fix it myself.
Okay, let me just tell youfucking change your mind about
(03:50):
that shit, because therapy I'vebeen to therapy many, many, many
, many countless times in mylife and I have gained so much
from it.
Not because necessarily becauseI was going through something
really difficult there weretimes when it helped for that
but what it does is it helps.
Actually.
You can learn skills to betteranalyze your own interior
(04:12):
experience, but also get theskills that you need to be able
to communicate those emotions,those feelings, those things
that you're going through thatare difficult to your partner.
And, let's face it, a lot ofguys just don't have those
skills as not things that youare normally taught in life.
So it's understandable thatthis is a struggle to be able to
talk to your partner aboutthese things that may be going
(04:35):
on.
So therapy is really reallygood for that.
So go and learn the skills andit is so good for actually
taking a good relationship andmaking it even better.
It's good for improving yourown set of skills so that you
can thrive in life and it'sactually making those skills
even better.
(04:55):
There's so much positive aspectto therapy and for everybody
who I've spoken to that's everbeen to therapy, it's been a
really good, positive experiencefor them, where they've come
out of it a better person.
So it is really easy to gettherapy.
I'm going to put in the shownotes for today, in the
description notes for thisepisode, a link to sex positive
(05:17):
therapists and counselors and alot of these professionals
provide services online so youdon't actually have to go into
an office.
You can actually just do itonline and have these sessions
online.
I would highly, highlyrecommend and it is very
important, especially for arelationship like cuckolding,
because there is so much workwith the emotional and mental
(05:43):
load that comes along with this,for sure with women, but
especially for guys to be ableto work through that angst and
those conflicting feelings andthe taboo nature of it and you
might be questioning yourselfand your self-esteem.
There's so much work that goesalong with that, with cuckolding
specifically, self-esteem.
(06:05):
There's so much work that goesalong with that, with cuckolding
specifically, that therapy ispriceless for that.
So please, please, consider itAll.
Right, let's jump into thisepisode today, right after this
message from Joy Mode.
Message from Joy Mode.
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That's Joy Mode Joining me onthe show.
(07:58):
Today.
I have John who's going toshare his story about what it's
actually like to be a cuck.
John, welcome to the show.
Say hello to all the listeners.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Hi everybody.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
I'm so excited for you to share your story because
I've talked to a lot of peopleover the years.
I've talked to a lot of guysover the years about cuckolding
and I've seen so much shit andI'm sure you have too online
about what cuckolding is likeand all of the advice that's
given out there and thesometimes rose colored glasses
that people are looking atcuckolding through.
(08:34):
And I'm guilty sometimesbecause I'm just like, oh, it's
so wonderful, it's lovely, it'slike incredible, it's blah blah,
blah blah.
But let's face it, it's notfucking easy.
So I'm excited to have you onthe show and share what it's
actually been like for you.
So, uh, you're married, right?
Speaker 2 (08:53):
yes, okay, yeah, we've been married for 20 plus
years married um and togetherjust short of 30.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
oh, wow, um, and so were you guys.
Was that your firstrelationship?
Speaker 2 (09:09):
First, yeah, first serious relationship.
Little teenage stuff beforethat, but yeah, certainly first
proper relationship, yeah,definitely.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
And so has cuckolding always been something that you
were interested in for youradult life, or like does this go
way back or is this fairlyrecent?
Speaker 2 (09:30):
I would say for me, probably in my early 20s I came
across back in the dark, darkdays of all the weird like file
streaming sites that were likeKazaa and all those weird things
.
I don't if anyone's old enoughto remember that, like I am, but
yeah, I first came acrossthings like Cocoa Porn back then
and it sort of piqued myinterest but I didn't really
(09:54):
think it was something that wasever going to happen to me and
then over time I kind of startedto have fantasies about it and
it grew stronger and strongerover time and it it was probably
not until what I know, it wasnot until I was 39 that I
actually acted upon it in someway by confessing how I felt to
(10:14):
my wife okay.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
So you realized at some point that this is like a
really strong desire that youhad and you thought you would
bring it up with her.
Okay, fuck, how did that go?
And I'm assuming that your wifewas fairly vanilla, or did she
have some kinky desires too?
Speaker 2 (10:37):
um, I would say, for the first 20 years of our
relationship it was a veryvanilla relationship, and after
that, um, particularly as we gottowards the end of our 30s,
things sort of became lessvanilla.
And then we experimented with,I would say, light to medium
(10:58):
femdom.
Um, I'm a switch, naturally,although not really anymore, but
she's definitely not a switchand she's definitely not a sub
so, and so it was throughplaying with that I actually
felt able to be vulnerableenough to tell her about
something that was, for me,probably the deepest, darkest,
(11:18):
buried secret that I had.
Yeah, and so it was throughmainly, I think, through
chastity play mainly, um, thatit came to it and I just blurted
it out one day when we were inbed.
Oh no, how did that go?
Um, I mean, she's a, she's anopen-minded lady and she's, uh,
pretty calm and and verylevel-headed.
(11:41):
So she was kind of like, okay.
Then, um, I was not expectingthat, and like, yeah, because
what else do you say at thatmoment?
It's like, yeah, I know, um,it's kind of out there, but but
that that's just how I feel,something I've always wanted to
experience.
It took quite a while afterthat, um, before we actually
moved on and and and really didanything meaningful, probably a
(12:02):
couple years before we actuallystarted speaking to other people
, and then probably at least acouple of years after that
before we really did anythingconcrete.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Okay, so this was a slow burn idea that you guys
were playing with.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Yeah, because ultimately we'd been together a
very long time at that pointalready and it's, you know, if
this goes wrong, it's marriageending potentially.
And you know many marriages doend because it goes wrong and
obviously some don't.
But yeah, so it's an enormousrisk and you have to weigh up,
(12:40):
you know, is it worth the riskfor a hard-on?
Essentially, yeah, you know, Imean, don't you?
It's like, how much are youwilling to risk, um, just to get
kicks?
Speaker 1 (12:53):
and so it took us a while to sort of unpack that so,
just going back to when youbrought it up to her, you said
you just blurted it out in thebedroom.
Do you happen to remember thewords that you used or the
phrasing that you used?
I'm just curious.
I'm just dying to know how guysactually do this to bring it up
(13:16):
.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Honestly, probably not the exact words, but we were
doing a little bit of dirtytalk around around the, the, the
chastity play that we weredoing, and you know me sort of
being in subspace, and I justkind of I just said it, you know
, I just know it.
Now that you've got me inchastity you need to cook me,
(13:43):
as's something along those lines.
Exact words can't remember andshe was like.
You know what that was kind of,because obviously I mean like,
because of like all the the magastuff and all the rest of it
cooks become a bit of amainstream term, even if people
aren't really like really awareof what cook holding is.
You know, it's become a like amainstream word.
That's kind of gone across theworld now and people know what a
(14:05):
cook is, even if they don'treally know what cook holding is
and what it's about properly.
So she understood what it was,but she was still a bit like
okay then, and what is thatgoing to look like?
Speaker 1 (14:18):
as you can imagine, yeah, I'm sure her mind was
reeling because that's a big,big step.
No-transcript the weight whydid it take you so long to bring
(14:50):
it up to her?
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Ah well, I mean probably mostly shame, if I'm
honest um, social conditioning,telling you you're not supposed
to feel this way.
You know you're not supposed todesire this.
It's like, I think that youknow.
I think we all know that thoseof us that are into into being
cooked all know that that socialconditioning and shame are also
part of the attraction.
Um, it's wrong, it's very wrong, very, very wrong.
(15:15):
You shouldn't be doing this.
I want to do this.
That is that that is inside usto a degree.
Um, and you know it's not.
I don't view it as wrong.
I need to.
I think I need to be that clear, but it's that thing.
Society views it as abnormal,taboo, wrong, and so, um, and
it's that thing.
(15:35):
If you say anything, does yourpartner suddenly go.
Oh my god, you absolute freak.
Get out of my bedroom, get outof my house, you.
And so it's shame and fear andall those kind of emotions that
go along with what this kink is.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Which is so mind-blowing to me and to many
other women who I've spoken toabout this, because for me, when
I met my first cuck boyfriend,it was the talking about the
fantasies.
It was so fun and everythingwas so exciting and there was
nothing but positivity.
For me there was nothing butfun and this is a sexy and it's
(16:15):
exciting.
And it that road with him thatI had no idea what was going on
and that kind of turmoil in hisinner experience because he did
(16:35):
not have.
He just didn't want to or couldnot express that to me.
So I had no idea that he was, Idon't want to say fighting these
demons, but going through thismoral tug of war that you're
talking about, where socialconditioning tells him like you
shouldn't, this is terriblywrong, Like there's something
wrong with you If you want thislike.
This is not healthy, this isnot right, this is this says a
(16:58):
lot about you and that's notgood and blah, blah, blah.
I had no idea that that wasgoing on.
Did you ever talk to your wifeabout that?
When you did blurt it out toher, Did you say, like this has
been really hard for me toaccept this part of me.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Yeah, I mean, we've had those conversations and
she's aware that it was going on.
She's aware now that it wasgoing on in my head for a long
time and I think that is areally good way of staying in
like that that sort of moral tugof war.
You know, you do sort of think,is there something wrong with
me?
And I think what people youknow, if you really think about
it, the one person in your lifethat you don't want to think
(17:38):
there's something wrong with youis the person that's closest to
you, the person that you loveand who loves you.
And is the person that'sclosest to you, the person that
you love and who loves you.
And the idea of making themrepulsed by you is, you know,
it's a really frightening idea.
So it's not just the moral togo, it's also that risk.
But yeah, I think we've hadthose conversations and she
knows that I find it difficult.
You know I'm very open.
(17:59):
Certainly now I'm very openabout how I feel, and so I don't
think she'll end up listeningto this podcast because, um,
some of the things do upset her.
There's some of the ways I feelsometimes it upsets her and she
doesn't want, she doesn't want.
It's not, she doesn't want toknow, she she's, she helps me
deal with it, but she doesn'tlike to hear about it.
(18:20):
You know being spoken out loudand yeah, um, so I'm very open.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
This is so important to talk about, though, because
for especially for, like, thewomen who are part of this
fantasy, part of this world,with you how confusing it is for
us to see you so desire this sostrongly, so much, and yet also
(18:45):
hate yourself, for it is such abizarre thing, like I just it's
very confusing for us.
It was very, very confusing forme and for a lot of women who
go through it.
So let's talk about it.
What you you brought it up toher.
You said you took years totalking about it, which is great
(19:07):
.
Was that just dirty talk?
Or were you guys actuallytalking through, like, the
emotions of like what is whatyou expect these experiences to
be?
Or was there no expectation ofactually doing this in real life
?
Speaker 2 (19:21):
it was just talking I think initially I never
believed it would really happen.
Um, I think, initially, I thinkit's one of those things I
thought.
Even I thought it was so outthere that my partner would be
like, yeah, no, and so we did,we did, we did play with it and
dirty talk with it in thebedroom and things like that.
(19:41):
But we never not for the firstthree talk with it in the
bedroom and things like that,but we never not for the first
three, four, five, six monthsreally seriously talk about it.
And then, I think, once mypartner and I realized that it
it wasn't going away, it wasn'tjust something that we were
going to talk about, in fact,actually, the dirty talk was
getting dirtier and the urge wasgetting stronger, not weaker,
(20:07):
through playing with it.
That's when we really startedto talk about it seriously.
I was like, okay, you know whatwould it look like.
And my partner I think, like alot of women will identify this
they've gone through the journeyto being a hot wife or a
cuckoldress or whatever you wantto call it.
I've gone through that sort ofinitial stage where I go, no, no
, you know, come on no.
And you're like, well, no,really though.
(20:29):
And so you go through that sortof that time where you talk
about it, but every time youreally talk it's like yeah, but
it's a bad idea really, isn't it?
And then eventually it becomesyeah, but.
And then eventually it becomeswell, what would it look like
and what would we do?
(20:49):
And so in the end we decided totry playing online.
So we met people through Redditand you know, we met guys
through Reddit who would talk toher, usually through kick.
But, yeah, and to be honest, asI've mentioned reddit, reddit
(21:10):
has been a big part of this forme.
Once I realized, once westarted talking, I actually
found subreddits on reddit thatI'd never really been on reddit
before.
And then this massive worldopened up and I was like, oh my
god, people are out there doingthis for real.
It's not just something crazythat's on porn hub, you know,
it's not just something crazythat's on Pornhub, it's not just
something that I've read aboutor thought about.
There are real people out theredoing this.
(21:31):
So, yeah, we played with peopleonline.
And then, from playing withpeople online, we sort of talked
about maybe we really do it,and we got very, very, very,
very, very close.
And then we didn't do it and wehad a couple of close calls and
then we didn't do it, and wehad a couple of close calls and
then eventually someone did endup meeting with my wife and we
did it for the first time.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Okay, tell me what that was like, because I'm just
imagining what it was for.
Throughout that whole time spanwas like for you to go into it
thinking this is just fun, thisis never actually going to
happen.
I'm just basically getting lotsof boner wank sessions and this
(22:11):
is great, it's all fun.
It's all fun and games, it'sall good To slowly starting to
realize like, oh, actually wemight do this.
And then, like you said, youhad some people, some close
calls where you it almosthappened and then it actually
did.
Please, john, tell me what thatwas like for you internally, in
(22:35):
your emotional atmosphere.
Like, cause I don't know whatthis is like for guys.
I can only tell, like I canonly share what is like from the
woman's experience, from myperspective, I have no idea.
I know it's angsty, I knowthere's all sorts of
uncomfortable feelings that thathappen.
But what, what is it reallylike for all the guys out there
(22:56):
who are like, oh, you know, isthis, you know, is this a real
thing?
Like, does it sideways?
Who like is it really great?
Is it terrible?
What is it like?
Speaker 2 (23:07):
so the first person she ever met didn't want me to
be present, um, so she did italone the first few times.
And the first time they met itwas like a social but with um,
they ended up spending some timetogether in his car and she
gave him head and stuff likethat, but they, um, they ended
up spending some time togetherin his car and she gave him head
and stuff like that, but theynever.
They didn't actually have sexthe first time they met um, and
(23:33):
it wasn't really real.
That first time it didn't feelreal.
Even even though that they'ddone stuff, it just still didn't
feel quite real and it was alljust a little bit ethereal.
And then, the second time theymet, they had sex for hours in
our bed and other places and,honestly, fear nausea.
(23:59):
I can actually feel it rightnow.
Now I'm thinking about, I canfeel some of those feelings
coming back into me right nowbecause I'm almost reliving it.
Uh, yeah, fear nausea, um,genuinely, just what have I done
?
Why have I done this to myself?
Why would anyone do this tothemselves?
It was, if I'm, if I'm beingcompletely honest, horrifying.
(24:23):
I can't describe as anythingelse different to that.
And, um, you know, when I gothome because I was at work when
it happened I got home from workand we sort of got in bed
together just to try to talk toeach other and I just cried um
for quite a while, um, and itwas ugly crying, I can tell you.
(24:48):
Um, it was just not good andthat kind of.
At that point my wife was like,oh, my god, this is like, this
is, this is not, it's not right,we shouldn't be doing this.
And I'm like, no, it's okay,I'll get over it.
You know, it's just the firsttime and, um, you know, I love
you more than anything and it'sjust been a huge amount to
(25:12):
process.
And so she met him a couple moretimes and in the end, I think
the fairest way to put it isthat we decided that, even
though he's a really good fitfor her, it wasn't working for
us, because it did get better.
Each time they met I was lessupset and able to process it
less, but I say, process it moreeven.
(25:34):
But it still wasn't right and Iwas like I just really think I
need to be there and he doesn'twant me to be there.
And so she didn't see him againand then she saw someone else
with me there who was nowherenear as good as the guy that
(25:54):
wouldn't let me be there for her, but it.
It was just a completelydifferent experience, and it
always is.
When I'm there, I don't knowwhy, I'm just involved and I
just feel fine and when I'm notthere it's so much worse, even
though I don't actually doanything when I'm there.
You know I'll sit in the cornerand I really do do the speak
(26:15):
when spoken to you know, move.
when told to move, I just sit inthe corner quietly and let them
do it in the ubiquitous chair.
Obviously, um, the cup chair,um, but yeah, I'll sit there and
just let them get it in theubiquitous chair.
Obviously, the cup chair.
But yeah, I'll sit there andjust let them get on with it and
I just enjoy watching it and Idon't even feel very strong
emotions.
But when I'm not there, evennow, after a few years of doing
(26:39):
this, the emotions are stillvery strong that is fascinating
to me.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
I wonder what it is that just I guess I don't know
there's something about.
Have you tried to dissect that,to figure out what it is about
that?
That is so much more calmingabout you being there than not.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
I think the only thing that I can really put it
down to mainly is that I thinkyour imagination is much more
powerful than than than yourealize, and it's like I kind of
put you if you've ever watcheda film, um, that's been uh,
converted from a book and you'veread the book and the film's
just like disappointing and weakand just not the same, it's
(27:21):
because your imagination,because you can't see what's in
the book, it's just words.
Your imagination has to make itreal and your imagination is
more powerful than your eyes.
I do believe that it sounds alittle bit sort of profound, but
I do believe there's an elementof that to it, because the not
knowing is worse than theknowing.
(28:04):
Right, wow, so you were talkingabout how you said, nausea was
one of the feelings that youfelt in those times when you
weren't there, did it at allthroughout that whole experience
when she was out with him, wasit still a turn on or was it
just completely awful, justawful?
no, it was never a turn on, itwas.
I'm laughing now, which is likeit's not really funny, is it?
But it is funny, but it isn't.
Um, you know, and it was prettyawful.
And even now, when, when shemeets without me there, which is
most of the time, I don'treally get anything out of it
(28:26):
sexually.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Really, but I'm surprised by this.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
I know, I know.
But when she comes home andwe're back together, that's when
I get something out of it.
That's when you know whenshe'll talk to me about what's
happened and you know we reclaimand all the rest of it about
what's happened, and you know wereclaim and all the rest of it.
That's the bit that I reallyenjoy, and the bit leading up to
(28:54):
as well.
You know if we're having sex,if we're in the bedroom and
talking about stuff.
You know the talking aboutwhat's going to happen, the fact
that you might be meeting thenext day or whatever.
That bit is really exciting andfun.
The actual meet itself, if I'mnot there, is just even now.
It's like I don't feel like Idid in the early days, but even
(29:15):
now I still just feel a bit.
You know, I really, oh, I don'tenjoy this.
You know why do I do it.
You know it's even now.
Um, and yeah, I, I know thatthat that's probably more unique
to me than some people.
I know that there will be otherpeople like me everybody's
different, aren't they?
but for me yeah, my enjoymentcomes through her, and if she's
(29:39):
not there I'm not getting theenjoyment yeah because, um,
sorry, um, because essentially,I think, at the center of all
this for me is it always hasbeen and it still is about her.
Um, I, I don't.
I don't think I'm a cook, Ithink I'm her cook.
(30:01):
That, that's really how it isfor me.
I don't think about beingcooked by other people.
The idea of being cooked bysomeone else is ridiculous to me
.
Um, it's her, her cooking mebecause she's everything.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
That's how I can describe it as okay.
Yeah, because I was gonna asklike that first time where you
felt so terrible, did you wantto be like?
I never want to do this again.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
No, wow, it's warped, isn't it?
It's just warped.
I can't even explain it.
The most warped thing about allthis is that at the absolute
lowest points, even at the worstebbs, when I felt really bad, I
wanted to continue and oftenwanted to escalate it.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Okay, yes, we need to dive into this, okay.
So so tell, like explain to thelisteners what that means,
because you're saying that atsome point things took a turn
for the shits like it was justnot not good, right yeah, about.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
I would say about a year and a half into doing it,
um, I started to suffer from, Iwould call it, mild depression
to moderate depression, and itwas definitely triggered by the
cooking um and the way I felt.
Um, I think the the genuinecause of it was just an enormous
(31:25):
crash of my self-esteem, um,and it was at that because I
think it was that point Irealized that, you know, it
wasn't really a game anymore forme, as much as it was starting
to become who I was sexually, um, it was starting to become my
(31:46):
sexual identity, um.
So I've always I've always beenkinky.
I've always liked lots ofdifferent things.
I've been into lots of differentthings and slowly but surely,
over the course of about a yearand a half, I went from being
interested in lots of kinks toonly being interested in one,
and it was getting to the pointwhere I was finding it hard to
become erect without thinkingabout being cooked and all sorts
(32:09):
of things like which.
I'm sure absolutely tons ofcooks have been through that one
.
I think a lot of us get to thatpoint, and so it was that point
my self-esteem really startedto dive and that mild to
moderate depression over thecourse of about two to three
months, became quite severedepression and then, really I
(32:33):
would say for a period of threemonths, I became suicidal,
actually fully suicidal.
So a good day would be methinking about suicide less than
10 times.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Oh wow.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
And then I started to get better and I started to
become less depressed and Iwould say the depression lasted
proper depression lasted forprobably about nine months, like
three months, either side ofthe suicidal thoughts.
And now I would say that I'moccasionally depressed but don't
(33:09):
have depression.
I think is the right way to putit.
So occasionally I havedepressed thoughts, usually when
my wife's meeting.
That's when I'm reallysusceptible to it.
But yeah, I've learned how tocontain it.
I've learned what caused it toa point I really let it in.
I let it in.
I know it sounds like a weirdthing that you can let
(33:30):
depression in, but once itstarted I allowed those thoughts
to fester and really focused onthem and that just turned it
into this really dark, darkplace where the depression
stopped being about cuckoldingand self-esteem and the
depression started to be aboutbeing depressed.
And I don't know if anyone'sever been to that point.
But when you are depressedbecause you're depressed, that's
(33:51):
a cycle that's hard to breakand it's a dark one and you feel
like there's no way out becauseyou're not depressed about what
you were depressed about in thefirst place anymore, you're
just depressed because you'redepressed.
So yeah, it was pretty rough.
It was quite tough and so, yeah, that that's my story and I'd
(34:14):
say I've been well now for sometime, uh, which is great, and
but, like we were saying, evenat the really really bad point,
even when I was feeling suicidal, I didn't want to stop and
would actually often try toescalate things.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
With the cuckolding, yeah, wow.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
It's warped isn't it.
It's actually warped.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Wow, I'm so glad that you're sharing your story.
What kind of resources did youhave?
And I know mental health,especially for men, when it
comes to resources, just suckshere in North America.
For men, when it comes toresources, just sucks here in
north america.
Um, there's just not a lotavailable.
What were you able to draw on?
I'm assuming um medical care,but also um therapy and stuff
like that.
Did you read?
Did you use any of thoseresources?
Speaker 2 (35:04):
no, um, uh, it would be complicated to explain.
It's a subject on its own toexplain why not.
But I, uh, where I live, our,our solution to depression would
be to give me some somemedication, and a lot of those
medications, in my opinion, areworse than the depression.
(35:28):
That's my feeling, and I mightbe talking complete rubbish.
I'm sure there are medicalprofessionals throwing their
laptops at the wall while theylisten to me say this, but
that's just how I feel and Ididn't want to take medication
and the chances of me gettingactual good therapy where I live
(35:51):
is I would rank as slim to none.
Okay, so that's my opinion.
So I toughed it out.
I was honest with my wife.
You know I couldn't talk to herin daylight about it, um, so on
(36:11):
a night time, in bed, you knowwe'd go to bed, like you do, as
a couple cuddle up together, ormaybe not cuddle up together and
then there's time went on, nocuddling and I became incredibly
cold and distant.
I couldn't, couldn't bringmyself.
I had no feelings for her orfor me.
It's weird how depression getsyou like that.
It's not that you don't loveyour partner, it's that you're
(36:33):
not capable of loving anyone oranything.
But, yeah, we'd lay in bed andin the dark, I could tell her
how I felt and you know, the daythat I told her that I'd been
suicidal for quite some time wasprobably the hardest thing I've
ever to do.
It's harder than being cookedway harder.
Um, telling another human beingthat that you are not only
(36:56):
close to suicide, but I've beenclose to suicide for some time
and have thought seriously abouthow you would do it.
Um, and truthfully, I think theonly thing that held me back
was the thought of what it woulddo to my parents, who were
elderly, and how they justwouldn't understand and how it
(37:19):
would hurt them, and I thinkthat probably held me back from
the brink.
But, yeah, so I didn't seekmental health professional help.
I had my partner and that wasit, and she was, to be honest,
incredibly understanding.
But also she found itincredibly difficult because I
(37:43):
mean, when all is said and done,you're watching your partner
self-destruct.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Which has got to be tough for anyone.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Oh my God, I can't even imagine.
And you said throughout all ofit you wanted to continue with
the cuckolding thing and ramp itup.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
Okay, yeah, Okay.
So for a lot of peoplelistening that's going to sound
like just really I don't want tosay unhealthy, but potentially
damaging to not take a breakwith the cuckolding part during
that really horrendous time ofyour life.
If you could go back, would youdo things differently?
Speaker 2 (38:28):
That's a very difficult question to answer.
The rational part of me says,of course we should have done
things differently.
The more emotional side of mesays that I think once I was on
the path to the severedepression, it wouldn't have
(38:50):
made much difference if you'dstopped.
Okay, because once I was in themidst of the deep depression, I
wasn't depressed about cookholding or being a cook, or even
about self-esteem.
It was just about I don't knowhow to describe it.
It sounds weird, even when Isay it myself, having
experienced.
But everything becomes futile.
What's the point in gettingbetter?
(39:12):
You know you.
Why would you get better?
There's no point.
Everything is just dark, andeverything that anyone says to
you, no matter who they are andwhat it is, you see the worst in
it and that it's just hard todescribe, and yeah so.
But I actually don't think itwould have made that much
difference.
There are things that probablywould have helped, but in truth
(39:34):
I would have just felt guiltyfor denying my wife what she was
enjoying, and that would haveadded to my feelings of low
esteem, and I think that wouldhave depressed me further low
esteem and I think that I thinkthat would have depressed me
further.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
So at some point you said it took what?
Nine months until you felt likeyou were back on the road to
recovery after that.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
Right yeah, roughly nine months.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
So did you like were there some changes to be made
during that time to make surethat you don't slip back into
that negative thought pathway,or did you just sort of just be
like, all right, let's do this,I feel better, let's do this
more.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
Are you familiar with the musical the Book of Mormon?
Speaker 1 (40:25):
No.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Okay, so there's a song in that in that called turn
it off like a light bulb, andit's basically about repressing
your homosexuality.
Um, the character's homosexual,but he's a mormon and he's not
supposed to be, so he turns itoff like a light bulb and what
it's a bit of a it's a pooranalogy, I suppose, but
effectively I've learned that ifI let the depressive thoughts
(40:49):
in, I become depressed.
If I notice I'm starting tofeel that way, I just shut it
off.
I just shut it off in my head.
I'm like, no, you're notthinking about that and that
really helps.
Um, and I, I know that that goesagainst much of the mental
health advice that people aregiven, but I think it actually
(41:13):
plays into something, uh, thatprobably people don't practice
enough, which is stoicism, and Iwas not stoic at all and that's
why I collapsed.
If I'd have been stoic and andactually when these depressive
thoughts they're starting, gone,stop thinking like that,
there's no need to think likethat, put it away I probably
(41:33):
would never have becomedepressed.
And I know a lot of peopleagain are probably going to be
ripping their headphones off andstamping on them listening to
me say that, but it's certainlytrue for me that I can control
it.
But if I let it in it kind ofspirals, I don't know, I don't
know how to.
It's like I don't know how todescribe it adequately it's like
(41:55):
if you roll a ball downhill, itgets faster and faster and
faster.
So don't roll the ball down thehill.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
Right, yeah, cause you can't control it once it
starts it's like, yeah, exactlyokay, this is fascinating to me,
um, because since then, your,your wife is, um, she's still
sleeping with other guys, right?
(42:23):
Does she have like a regularbowl that she sees she has a
regular?
Speaker 2 (42:25):
bowl that she sees.
She has a regular bull that shesees.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
Yes, Okay, and you said you're not always there
when she sees him.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
I'm occasionally present, but I'm never in the
room and most of the time theyeither meet away from the house
or they meet at the house whenI'm not here.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
So they only tend to meet at the house with me in if
there's basically, it's just notpractical to do it another way,
and do you feel like you're the?
The cuckolding dynamic in yourrelationship is fulfilling for
you and brings you joy and ishelping your relationship now?
Speaker 2 (43:05):
Yeah um, um, good question.
Um, I would say that, um, itcan be fulfilling.
I think my partner gets a lotout of this particular bull.
It's not just sex, they aredefinitely more friend, with
(43:27):
benefits.
Um, so, you know, they go ondates, they stay overnight with
each other.
Um, they are friends, they havesimilar interests, they make
each other laugh, so there ismuch more to it than just sex.
But I would say also, the sexis about 80 of it, so it is
still mainly a sexualrelationship and so she gets a
(43:51):
lot out of it and he's reallygood at sex.
For her, so, you know, it's veryfulfilling for her, it's a real
outlet and actually, you know,when I was ill, you know that
outlet really helped her to beable to go away and get away
from the depression and thesadness and to go on and meet
(44:11):
with someone who was there withher and just expressing joy
around her.
That that was really great forher and it remains that way.
And so, yeah, um, it it's, it'sa benefit for our relationship
in that sense that she's happierand more relaxed and more
fulfilled.
Um, is it fulfilling?
(44:31):
He's happier and more relaxedand more fulfilled.
Is it fulfilling?
It's not as fulfilling, as ifhe was a more stereotypical bull
, as you would imagine from youknow.
I suppose that well, yeah, thestereotype.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
That's why it's called a stereotype, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (44:51):
But you know, it would be better if it was more
involved with me.
It would be better.
I, I would like to be theircook and I'm not their cook.
I'm her cook and really it'smore.
It's more hot wifing than cookholding because it's although
it's done from a cook, allperspective at home, it's really
(45:12):
more that she's more doing thehot wire thing.
It's more stag, it's more Idon't know how to describe it,
but it's definitely not.
I don't feel like a cook, um,like I want to the mind game is
not there, as much as you notfully okay exactly, and I think
that for us, what we're tryingto find is that balance where,
(45:34):
um, we've sort of reintroduced avery gentle femdom in the house
, so it would be like what youwould call gentle um female led,
so it's not like 24 sevenlifestyle.
But you know, basically I'mexpected to treat my wife with
respect and love at all times,you know, and if I don't, then
(45:59):
there are consequences to that.
And you know she doesn't makeall the decisions, she doesn't
do all the stuff, she doesn'tcontrol me.
I don't have to ask permissionfor things, but she gets a veto.
If she decides that she's nothappy with it, she can just say
no, I don't think we're going todo that and we've introduced
some of those things right andthat that really has helped
because it makes me feel, um Idon't know more valid in the
(46:24):
relationship.
I think the hardest thing todescribe to her is that, as a
cook, um, the thing you learnvery quickly once your wife gets
a a bowl that's really good atfucking her um, you realize that
you're not sexually valid inthe same way anymore.
You know, once upon a time Iwas the center of my wife's
(46:45):
sexual world and that's verymuch not the case.
Now.
You know she has more sex withher ball than she does with me
and that sex is better.
Um, you know, the usualstereotype is why he is bigger
downstairs than I am, you know,and that does have an effect.
She does prefer size and yeah,um.
(47:06):
So, um, you realize you're notsexually valid in the same ways
that you used to be, and for meI still need to be valid, and I
can't do that through fuckingher, so I need to be valid in
other ways, but still, sexually.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (47:28):
Yes, and I've heard this, I've seen this struggle,
I've heard this struggle.
I felt this struggle from somany guys before.
Does that make sense?
Grieving process that you gothrough when you realize that
(47:50):
you're not everything that yourwife was wanting from you and it
seems like to me very egocrushing.
For a lot of guys they're justlike.
This is really damaging to myself identity, knowing that I'm
not what she needs and in thebedroom department.
(48:14):
I don't know, I don't know whyI have such a hard time
understanding that.
I get it.
It's obviously such a thingthat guys feel this way, but I
just don't understand it andthis is probably why so many
guys you see so many questionsout there where guys are like
(48:35):
well, how can your wife not loserespect for you over time if
you can't give her what sheneeds in bed?
It's like what I guess I thinkfor a lot of women, myself
included.
We look at cuckoldingrelationships through the lens
of an abundance mindset, whereyou're like what you're actually
(48:55):
giving her is variety, isexperiences, is more of what she
already was happy with, andthat's the real gift there,
whereas like it's very much.
What's the other side of it?
Abundance, a scarcity mindsetthat guys have where they're
(49:17):
like well, I'm not enough, I amclearly not good enough, I'm not
big enough, I can't give herthis kind of orgasm, I can't
give her every kind of orgasm, Ican't give her all the feels, I
can't be all of that for her.
Therefore, that means somethingabout me and my sense of self
(49:38):
and that is the ego crushingpart.
And it's hard for me tounderstand that part because
that's not how I see it andthat's not how a lot of women
I've spoken to have seen itno-transcript wrong with them or
(50:19):
it's doomed.
And so I guess, if you're fedthat storyline your whole life
and that's what you're used toand everything like that
understanding anything outsideof that little box is probably
wild, wild.
So I I understand that, butit's.
It is like a grieving processthat guys go through where
(50:39):
they're like I'm no longereverything for her sexually.
This is like a very profoundmoment where guys are just, you
know they have to work throughthat and how do you, how do you
get over that?
I don't know, maybe it istraumatizing.
Was it traumatizing for you?
Speaker 2 (51:02):
Oh yeah, I mean and you're exactly right to say it's
like grief.
It is grief, I mean if, if it'slike if a if a family member
dies and you grieve and then youfeel, oh, I didn't spend enough
time with them, I could havegone to see them, I could have
done this for them.
Now they're gone, then yourself-esteem drops because you
know you've been, you feel likeyou've let them down, you feel
(51:24):
guilty, you feel bad and thenthat can make the grief worse
and that's when people can endup from that point and end up
being depressed and all the restof it.
That is exactly the same.
It's exactly the same for whatI went through.
I grieved for my loss of manhoodand I know that is really
really, really stupid, but alsoI still did.
(51:47):
I knew it was stupid, I knew itwas wrong to feel that way, I
knew I knew I shouldn't befeeling so bad about myself
because you know, at the end ofthe day, my wife has the same
mindset as you, so she's got theabundance mindset and and you
know, she does still enjoyhaving sex with me and she does
still want to have sex with meand, to be honest, um, most of
(52:11):
the kinky stuff we're doing,most of the dirty talk and all
that stuff.
That's for my benefit.
Um, she'd be more than happyjust to have vanilla sex with me
.
Still, um, and, and so I knowit's my I'll call it my problem,
even though problem is notreally the right word.
It's my problem, it's my issue.
I'm the one that feels this wayand I totally respect what you
say is.
It's's 100% grief, and that iswhat I went through.
Speaker 1 (52:32):
Yeah, yeah, it's amazing to me.
Okay, you said something onReddit.
I went through all of yourposts and there was a bunch of
things that you wrote aboutcuckolding fantasy versus
reality.
That was the original post andyou had many comments on there,
but one thing was so fascinatingto me.
(52:52):
This one really stuck out.
You said I don't think thiskink would turn me on if it
wasn't hard for me, though yousaid it works less well for her
that I struggle.
And you said it's always abalance for us where possible.
And I've heard this before aboutthe taboo part of cuckolding,
(53:15):
where it wouldn't be as fun andenjoyable if it wasn't taboo, if
it wasn't something that you'renot supposed to do.
But I found it interesting thatyou said that it's the struggle
that pulls you in, and I'm soconfused by this.
Is this like emotionalmasochism?
(53:37):
Is this where you're like youpurposely want to struggle and
you want to go experience theunpleasantness of the angst and
the feelings of shame andeverything?
Because, because ultimately, itdoes turn you on?
Is this really how it works inyour mind?
Speaker 2 (53:58):
Kind of yeah, I mean, I think it would be akin to.
It's like when you go on agiant roller coaster, right, and
for starters you know youshouldn't be going at 70 miles
an hour in the open, at 400 feet, that's not natural.
And as you get to the top ofthe hill on a roller coaster,
(54:19):
your heart's in your mouth andyour mouth goes dry and you're
like, oh my god.
And as you start to go theother side, the first feeling
you get is I won't go as far asterror, but it's fear.
And it's get is I won't go asfar as terror, but it's fear,
and it's like adrenaline and allthese things.
And then as you start going on,you feel the speed.
Suddenly that becomes pleasure.
(54:39):
Okay, and so as human beings, weseek out things that scare us.
For starters, we just do it.
Even the most risk aversepeople in some way find things
that throw into them.
So.
So I think there's an elementof that to it.
Things that scare you are alsosomething that we seek to enjoy.
It's like people watchinghorror films to be scared.
(54:59):
Why would you watch somethingthat's horrible and scary?
But we do, and I think withCuckold in it.
It's that struggle, that sort ofangst, that fear, all of that
is what makes it compulsive, andit is compulsive.
I would say it's probablyaddictive.
(55:23):
There is nothing in my lifethat I am so compelled to do as
this, nothing.
I mean, I'm in the fortunateposition that the nest is empty,
the kids have flown, they havetheir own lives, it's me and my
wife together, and so, um, we,we have the freedom to explore
(55:46):
and do things for ourselves now.
But, yeah, there's nothing inlife.
No, no interest has consumed melike this.
You know, no hobby, um, nosexual, uh, king, nothing.
And and it it why I would sayit's like an addiction.
Is that the last hit?
(56:06):
Well, that was great, but thenext one to feel the same, you
have to go further.
Right for it to, because thethings I think back now, the
things that like used to driveme wild when we first started,
before we didn't talk to anybody.
I look like back at that now.
Wow, that was pretty tame.
And I think about would thatstimulate me now?
(56:27):
No, right, because you know,like, just the idea of a kiss in
someone would, would send me upthe wall, and I mean I, I've
seen and had described to methings that go way beyond that.
Now you know, and it's like, um, so yeah, it becomes, it's one
of those things that the moreyou, more you do it, the more
(56:50):
you to do it, the harder youneed to go, and the struggle is
part of it.
Yeah, the struggle isdefinitely part of it.
Feeling the emotional struggle,well, I mean, it's the angst,
isn't it?
You know, the cook angsteverybody talks about and it's
real.
Speaker 1 (57:05):
I can just imagine, though, how difficult this kind
of relationship is for yourpartner, though, like she, I
just how confusing this is forwomen, Because we don't want to
harm our partner, we don't wantto cause distress, we don't.
I mean.
It's not only that you, youknow you don't want to hurt your
partner, but it's a dangeroussituation for women to be in too
(57:27):
.
What if you, you know yourhusband really wants you to cuck
him, and the first time hecan't handle the emotion of it
and he flips out and hits youlike?
This could be dangerous for us,but it's just so confusing for
us to understand that you still,you want, still, want this, you
(57:49):
desire this so much and, uh,you know, you know the ramping
up of it, and yet it feels likeit can be so damaging.
At the same time, it must be soconfusing as a woman to be in
that kind of scenario.
Speaker 2 (58:06):
Yeah, and I mean certainly.
I mean it's easy for me to saythere was never any risk that I
would have become violenttowards my partner.
I was too busy wallowing inself-pity for that, I think.
But I think that the thingabout it hurting me for her that
(58:30):
being really difficult, that isreally true.
And of all the things to do withcooking, that has been the
thing that has been hardest forher and she really dislikes that
.
And you know it's beentraumatising for her.
You know she suffered with mewhen I was ill.
(58:51):
You know it's been traumatizingfor her.
You know she suffered with mewhen I was ill.
You know, absolutely no doubt,and I could see that.
And, of course, when you cansee your partner suffering
because of you, you become moredepressed.
Yeah, you know, because, oh myGod, I'm such a bad person.
Even my depression is hurtingother people.
You know.
Yeah, so yeah, it was reallydifficult for her, really
(59:12):
difficult, and still is.
You know, when she sees that ithurts me.
And you know we still have timeswhen things are hard.
You know, even though thingsare so, so, so, so much better,
sometimes we have times where wehave to talk it out because
it's become difficult.
Yeah, I don't know if that willever go away.
I mean, I'm much more.
(59:34):
I am at peace with myself.
I am like genuinely at peacewith it.
Now I don't struggle with itanymore.
I still wouldn't want anyone inmy real life to know what we do
.
You know, friends and family donot know what we do, and I
would never want that becauseI've still got too much social
(59:54):
conditioning for that too, muchsocial conditioning for that
kind of thing.
But yeah, um, I've accepted whoI am and I'm comfortable with it
, and I think I've I've stillgot a way to go with accepting.
Um, it's still difficultsometimes to accept that my
partner loves me and wants me,and I think at the heart of that
(01:00:19):
is that when there's this otherperson and they like the other
person, they like to talk tothem, they like to do things
with them, and then this otherperson is so much better at sex
with them as well, there isalways that thing you're going,
well, they should really just bewith them right, yeah, that's
what.
Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
That's what so many people don't understand about
cuckolding.
They're like, well, why would?
Why would she still?
And that's why a lot of cucksdoubt their self-worth.
They're like, well, why wouldshe still want me?
Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
I'm not relevant anymore, you know yeah,
absolutely, and and that is it.
It's that, it's that lack ofrelevance.
That's what's damaging, I think, because you do feel irrelevant
, you do feel redundant and insome ways you are, you know,
sexually, you know you're not.
It is true that you know to toa degree.
Yeah, your partner does wantthe other person more when it
(01:01:11):
comes to sex, if they're doingit right, which you know a
current bold does wow, okay.
Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
So on reddit, there is this big community there for
about cuckolding and it'sfascinating to read a lot of the
comments that are on there.
There's some really goodcomments, very insightful
comments.
There's some really shittyadvice that I've come across on
there, some really crazy advice,but lots of people wondering
(01:01:42):
what cuckolding is really like.
Let's face it, there's a ton ofguys out there fantasizing
about this.
That's what the research hasshown.
Men are fantasizing about thisway more than women are and way
more often, and so, um, you knowlots of different stories about
that.
What are you hoping that peopletake away?
(01:02:16):
Uh, most about this?
About you sharing your story onthe show today.
What are you hoping that peopleare going to take away from
this?
Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
I think if there's one thing that sort of scares me
, it's that people go on thingslike reddit on on.
I mean, one particular one thatI look at a lot is cookhold
psychology.
And they go on reddit and theysee these posts and it's clear
to me that a lot of them justaren't based in reality.
Like probably 90 percent of theposts on reddit about
(01:02:45):
cookholding are probably frompeople who've never actually
done it would be my guess, and Ithink you know it's like
cheerleading.
It really is.
It's like give me a c, give mea u, give me a c, give me a k,
go cook, you know.
And, like you know, people willbe going oh, you know, we've
talked about it and we'rethinking about it, but I'm not
sure.
And you just get like 50comments going do it, do it, you
(01:03:09):
know.
And it's like, well, whoa, slowdown.
And so I think for me, I thinkit's important that people
realize that there's a dark sideto it.
Uh, it's not, you know.
And and you don't know howyou're going to feel till you do
it, you really don't.
No one can know, no one canknow.
And and I also want to say thatthere have been some really
(01:03:32):
positive moments from cookingand some real highs.
You know we've talked a lotabout the downsides today.
There are some great bits to it, really great bits.
Watching the sexual confidencein my wife, watching how her own
body image has changed, stufflike that has just just been
amazing, like the best thingever.
(01:03:53):
But there is this other side toit and I think that people
there's just too many people onthe internet trying to convince
you to go for it and I wantpeople to really see that that
like the reality of it is, itcould be bad and not just crying
next to your wife while she'shaving sex.
Bad, but actually could takeyou to a place that you don't
(01:04:15):
really realize you're going togo and actually that place can
be quite dark.
Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
Yeah, yeah, well said , absolutely All right, we are
out of time for the show today.
John, I'm just, I'm so happythat you've come to to share
your story and I'm, like, I'mvery proud of you for coming on
the show and sharing your story,because I know that a lot of
people are would be nervous todo such a thing, but I I really
(01:04:41):
appreciate your openness andyour honesty about this side of
cuckolding.
So thank you so much for comingon the show today.
Speaker 2 (01:04:50):
No problem.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:04:53):
That's going to be it for today's episode.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
Make sure you go tovenuscuckoldresscom.
That's where you can book aprivate chat with me, and you
can also join the QueensQuarters community and get all
the amazing benefits, like theprivate podcast and the helpful
cuck tier, where you can get keyholding for the private
(01:05:15):
Snapchat group, monthly privatechats with me and weekly live
hangouts and invites to speciallive events.
Oh, and you can also submit aquestion or confession for the
show.
Just go to venuscuckledresscomand click on the link that says
the podcast.
Make sure you follow me on BlueSky Social.
(01:05:36):
Yes, I said Blue Sky Social.
Fuck Twitter.
My handle there is atCuckoldressV.
All right, that's it fortoday's show, you guys, we'll
see you next time.
Here's what's coming up on the show.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
And then the second time they met, they had sex for
hours in our bed and otherplaces and, honestly, fear
nausea.
I can actually feel it rightnow.
Now I'm thinking about, I canfeel some of those feelings
coming back into me right now,cause I'm I'm almost reliving it
(00:26):
.
Yeah, fear, nausea, um,genuinely, just what have I done
?
Why have I done this to myself?
Why would anyone do this tothemselves?
It was, if I'm, if I'm beingcompletely honest, horrifying.
I can't horrifying, I can'tdescribe as anything else
different to that.
(00:47):
And you know, when I got homebecause I was at work when it
happened I got home from workand we sort of got in bed
together just to sort of talk toeach other and I just cried for
quite a while and it was uglycrying, I can tell you.
Yeah, um, it was just not good.
And at that point my wife waslike, oh my god, this is like.
(01:11):
This is, this is not, it's notright, we shouldn't be doing
this.
And I'm like no, it's okay,I'll get over it.
You know, it's just the firsttime and I love you more than
(01:38):
anything and it's just been ahuge amount to process.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Empowered woman who wants it all.
Let's go.
Welcome to the show.
I'm your host, venus.
Thanks for joining me today.
(02:01):
Today I have, I think, what isone of my most impactful stories
that I've had on the show today.
It is profound and I havethought a lot about this story
since recording it, and I thinka lot of you guys out there are
going to be moved by this story,so I'm excited for you to
(02:23):
listen to it, because so manyguys out there are wondering
about cuckolding and desiring itso much and scared to know what
it might really be like andI've talked about it on the show
being such a great thing andgreat for relationships and
awesome, exciting, thrilling andfun and all that good stuff.
(02:45):
This is the flip side.
This is what happens when itdoes not feel good, when it is
not very healthy for you, and sothis story is fascinating to
hear.
I think you're really going toget a lot out of it.
First, though, I do need tomention trigger warning for
(03:05):
anybody listening to the show.
There is the mention of suicide, so if you are sensitive to
that, you may not want to listento this episode.
Today's show is a cautionarytale, but it's also a very good
time to acknowledge that thereis a great need for individual
(03:28):
and couples therapy, and I knowa lot of men out there get this
knee-jerk reaction when it comesto therapy.
They're like I don't need to goand get help, I'm not mentally
anguished, there's nothing wrongwith me, I don't need to fix
anything, I can fix it myself.
Okay, let me just tell youfucking change your mind about
(03:50):
that shit, because therapy I'vebeen to therapy many, many, many
, many countless times in mylife and I have gained so much
from it.
Not because necessarily becauseI was going through something
really difficult there weretimes when it helped for that
but what it does is it helps.
Actually.
You can learn skills to betteranalyze your own interior
(04:12):
experience, but also get theskills that you need to be able
to communicate those emotions,those feelings, those things
that you're going through thatare difficult to your partner.
And, let's face it, a lot ofguys just don't have those
skills as not things that youare normally taught in life.
So it's understandable thatthis is a struggle to be able to
talk to your partner aboutthese things that may be going
(04:35):
on.
So therapy is really reallygood for that.
So go and learn the skills andit is so good for actually
taking a good relationship andmaking it even better.
It's good for improving yourown set of skills so that you
can thrive in life and it'sactually making those skills
even better.
(04:55):
There's so much positive aspectto therapy and for everybody
who I've spoken to that's everbeen to therapy, it's been a
really good, positive experiencefor them, where they've come
out of it a better person.
So it is really easy to gettherapy.
I'm going to put in the shownotes for today, in the
description notes for thisepisode, a link to sex positive
(05:17):
therapists and counselors and alot of these professionals
provide services online so youdon't actually have to go into
an office.
You can actually just do itonline and have these sessions
online.
I would highly, highlyrecommend and it is very
important, especially for arelationship like cuckolding,
because there is so much workwith the emotional and mental
(05:43):
load that comes along with this,for sure with women, but
especially for guys to be ableto work through that angst and
those conflicting feelings andthe taboo nature of it and you
might be questioning yourselfand your self-esteem.
There's so much work that goesalong with that, with cuckolding
specifically, self-esteem.
(06:05):
There's so much work that goesalong with that, with cuckolding
specifically, that therapy ispriceless for that.
So please, please, consider itAll.
Right, let's jump into thisepisode today, right after this
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That's Joy Mode Joining me onthe show.
(07:58):
Today.
I have John who's going toshare his story about what it's
actually like to be a cuck.
John, welcome to the show.
Say hello to all the listeners.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Hi everybody.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
I'm so excited for you to share your story because
I've talked to a lot of peopleover the years.
I've talked to a lot of guysover the years about cuckolding
and I've seen so much shit andI'm sure you have too online
about what cuckolding is likeand all of the advice that's
given out there and thesometimes rose colored glasses
that people are looking atcuckolding through.
(08:34):
And I'm guilty sometimesbecause I'm just like, oh, it's
so wonderful, it's lovely, it'slike incredible, it's blah blah,
blah blah.
But let's face it, it's notfucking easy.
So I'm excited to have you onthe show and share what it's
actually been like for you.
So, uh, you're married, right?
Speaker 2 (08:53):
yes, okay, yeah, we've been married for 20 plus
years married um and togetherjust short of 30.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
oh, wow, um, and so were you guys.
Was that your firstrelationship?
Speaker 2 (09:09):
First, yeah, first serious relationship.
Little teenage stuff beforethat, but yeah, certainly first
proper relationship, yeah,definitely.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
And so has cuckolding always been something that you
were interested in for youradult life, or like does this go
way back or is this fairlyrecent?
Speaker 2 (09:30):
I would say for me, probably in my early 20s I came
across back in the dark, darkdays of all the weird like file
streaming sites that were likeKazaa and all those weird things
.
I don't if anyone's old enoughto remember that, like I am, but
yeah, I first came acrossthings like Cocoa Porn back then
and it sort of piqued myinterest but I didn't really
(09:54):
think it was something that wasever going to happen to me and
then over time I kind of startedto have fantasies about it and
it grew stronger and strongerover time and it it was probably
not until what I know, it wasnot until I was 39 that I
actually acted upon it in someway by confessing how I felt to
(10:14):
my wife okay.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
So you realized at some point that this is like a
really strong desire that youhad and you thought you would
bring it up with her.
Okay, fuck, how did that go?
And I'm assuming that your wifewas fairly vanilla, or did she
have some kinky desires too?
Speaker 2 (10:37):
um, I would say, for the first 20 years of our
relationship it was a veryvanilla relationship, and after
that, um, particularly as we gottowards the end of our 30s,
things sort of became lessvanilla.
And then we experimented with,I would say, light to medium
(10:58):
femdom.
Um, I'm a switch, naturally,although not really anymore, but
she's definitely not a switchand she's definitely not a sub
so, and so it was throughplaying with that I actually
felt able to be vulnerableenough to tell her about
something that was, for me,probably the deepest, darkest,
(11:18):
buried secret that I had.
Yeah, and so it was throughmainly, I think, through
chastity play mainly, um, thatit came to it and I just blurted
it out one day when we were inbed.
Oh no, how did that go?
Um, I mean, she's a, she's anopen-minded lady and she's, uh,
pretty calm and and verylevel-headed.
(11:41):
So she was kind of like, okay.
Then, um, I was not expectingthat, and like, yeah, because
what else do you say at thatmoment?
It's like, yeah, I know, um,it's kind of out there, but but
that that's just how I feel,something I've always wanted to
experience.
It took quite a while afterthat, um, before we actually
moved on and and and really didanything meaningful, probably a
(12:02):
couple years before we actuallystarted speaking to other people
, and then probably at least acouple of years after that
before we really did anythingconcrete.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Okay, so this was a slow burn idea that you guys
were playing with.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Yeah, because ultimately we'd been together a
very long time at that pointalready and it's, you know, if
this goes wrong, it's marriageending potentially.
And you know many marriages doend because it goes wrong and
obviously some don't.
But yeah, so it's an enormousrisk and you have to weigh up,
(12:40):
you know, is it worth the riskfor a hard-on?
Essentially, yeah, you know, Imean, don't you?
It's like, how much are youwilling to risk, um, just to get
kicks?
Speaker 1 (12:53):
and so it took us a while to sort of unpack that so,
just going back to when youbrought it up to her, you said
you just blurted it out in thebedroom.
Do you happen to remember thewords that you used or the
phrasing that you used?
I'm just curious.
I'm just dying to know how guysactually do this to bring it up
(13:16):
.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Honestly, probably not the exact words, but we were
doing a little bit of dirtytalk around around the, the, the
chastity play that we weredoing, and you know me sort of
being in subspace, and I justkind of I just said it, you know
, I just know it.
Now that you've got me inchastity you need to cook me,
(13:43):
as's something along those lines.
Exact words can't remember andshe was like.
You know what that was kind of,because obviously I mean like,
because of like all the the magastuff and all the rest of it
cooks become a bit of amainstream term, even if people
aren't really like really awareof what cook holding is.
You know, it's become a like amainstream word.
That's kind of gone across theworld now and people know what a
(14:05):
cook is, even if they don'treally know what cook holding is
and what it's about properly.
So she understood what it was,but she was still a bit like
okay then, and what is thatgoing to look like?
Speaker 1 (14:18):
as you can imagine, yeah, I'm sure her mind was
reeling because that's a big,big step.
No-transcript the weight whydid it take you so long to bring
(14:50):
it up to her?
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Ah well, I mean probably mostly shame, if I'm
honest um, social conditioning,telling you you're not supposed
to feel this way.
You know you're not supposed todesire this.
It's like, I think that youknow.
I think we all know that thoseof us that are into into being
cooked all know that that socialconditioning and shame are also
part of the attraction.
Um, it's wrong, it's very wrong, very, very wrong.
(15:15):
You shouldn't be doing this.
I want to do this.
That is that that is inside usto a degree.
Um, and you know it's not.
I don't view it as wrong.
I need to.
I think I need to be that clear, but it's that thing.
Society views it as abnormal,taboo, wrong, and so, um, and
it's that thing.
(15:35):
If you say anything, does yourpartner suddenly go.
Oh my god, you absolute freak.
Get out of my bedroom, get outof my house, you.
And so it's shame and fear andall those kind of emotions that
go along with what this kink is.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Which is so mind-blowing to me and to many
other women who I've spoken toabout this, because for me, when
I met my first cuck boyfriend,it was the talking about the
fantasies.
It was so fun and everythingwas so exciting and there was
nothing but positivity.
For me there was nothing butfun and this is a sexy and it's
(16:15):
exciting.
And it that road with him thatI had no idea what was going on
and that kind of turmoil in hisinner experience because he did
(16:35):
not have.
He just didn't want to or couldnot express that to me.
So I had no idea that he was, Idon't want to say fighting these
demons, but going through thismoral tug of war that you're
talking about, where socialconditioning tells him like you
shouldn't, this is terriblywrong, Like there's something
wrong with you If you want thislike.
This is not healthy, this isnot right, this is this says a
(16:58):
lot about you and that's notgood and blah, blah, blah.
I had no idea that that wasgoing on.
Did you ever talk to your wifeabout that?
When you did blurt it out toher, Did you say, like this has
been really hard for me toaccept this part of me.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Yeah, I mean, we've had those conversations and
she's aware that it was going on.
She's aware now that it wasgoing on in my head for a long
time and I think that is areally good way of staying in
like that that sort of moral tugof war.
You know, you do sort of think,is there something wrong with
me?
And I think what people youknow, if you really think about
it, the one person in your lifethat you don't want to think
(17:38):
there's something wrong with youis the person that's closest to
you, the person that you loveand who loves you.
And is the person that'sclosest to you, the person that
you love and who loves you.
And the idea of making themrepulsed by you is, you know,
it's a really frightening idea.
So it's not just the moral togo, it's also that risk.
But yeah, I think we've hadthose conversations and she
knows that I find it difficult.
You know I'm very open.
(17:59):
Certainly now I'm very openabout how I feel, and so I don't
think she'll end up listeningto this podcast because, um,
some of the things do upset her.
There's some of the ways I feelsometimes it upsets her and she
doesn't want, she doesn't want.
It's not, she doesn't want toknow, she she's, she helps me
deal with it, but she doesn'tlike to hear about it.
(18:20):
You know being spoken out loudand yeah, um, so I'm very open.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
This is so important to talk about, though, because
for especially for, like, thewomen who are part of this
fantasy, part of this world,with you how confusing it is for
us to see you so desire this sostrongly, so much, and yet also
(18:45):
hate yourself, for it is such abizarre thing, like I just it's
very confusing for us.
It was very, very confusing forme and for a lot of women who
go through it.
So let's talk about it.
What you you brought it up toher.
You said you took years totalking about it, which is great
(19:07):
.
Was that just dirty talk?
Or were you guys actuallytalking through, like, the
emotions of like what is whatyou expect these experiences to
be?
Or was there no expectation ofactually doing this in real life
?
Speaker 2 (19:21):
it was just talking I think initially I never
believed it would really happen.
Um, I think, initially, I thinkit's one of those things I
thought.
Even I thought it was so outthere that my partner would be
like, yeah, no, and so we did,we did, we did play with it and
dirty talk with it in thebedroom and things like that.
(19:41):
But we never not for the firstthree talk with it in the
bedroom and things like that,but we never not for the first
three, four, five, six monthsreally seriously talk about it.
And then, I think, once mypartner and I realized that it
it wasn't going away, it wasn'tjust something that we were
going to talk about, in fact,actually, the dirty talk was
getting dirtier and the urge wasgetting stronger, not weaker,
(20:07):
through playing with it.
That's when we really startedto talk about it seriously.
I was like, okay, you know whatwould it look like.
And my partner I think, like alot of women will identify this
they've gone through the journeyto being a hot wife or a
cuckoldress or whatever you wantto call it.
I've gone through that sort ofinitial stage where I go, no, no
, you know, come on no.
And you're like, well, no,really though.
(20:29):
And so you go through that sortof that time where you talk
about it, but every time youreally talk it's like yeah, but
it's a bad idea really, isn't it?
And then eventually it becomesyeah, but.
And then eventually it becomeswell, what would it look like
and what would we do?
(20:49):
And so in the end we decided totry playing online.
So we met people through Redditand you know, we met guys
through Reddit who would talk toher, usually through kick.
But, yeah, and to be honest, asI've mentioned reddit, reddit
(21:10):
has been a big part of this forme.
Once I realized, once westarted talking, I actually
found subreddits on reddit thatI'd never really been on reddit
before.
And then this massive worldopened up and I was like, oh my
god, people are out there doingthis for real.
It's not just something crazythat's on porn hub, you know,
it's not just something crazythat's on Pornhub, it's not just
something that I've read aboutor thought about.
There are real people out theredoing this.
(21:31):
So, yeah, we played with peopleonline.
And then, from playing withpeople online, we sort of talked
about maybe we really do it,and we got very, very, very,
very, very close.
And then we didn't do it and wehad a couple of close calls and
then we didn't do it, and wehad a couple of close calls and
then eventually someone did endup meeting with my wife and we
did it for the first time.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Okay, tell me what that was like, because I'm just
imagining what it was for.
Throughout that whole time spanwas like for you to go into it
thinking this is just fun, thisis never actually going to
happen.
I'm just basically getting lotsof boner wank sessions and this
(22:11):
is great, it's all fun.
It's all fun and games, it'sall good To slowly starting to
realize like, oh, actually wemight do this.
And then, like you said, youhad some people, some close
calls where you it almosthappened and then it actually
did.
Please, john, tell me what thatwas like for you internally, in
(22:35):
your emotional atmosphere.
Like, cause I don't know whatthis is like for guys.
I can only tell, like I canonly share what is like from the
woman's experience, from myperspective, I have no idea.
I know it's angsty, I knowthere's all sorts of
uncomfortable feelings that thathappen.
But what, what is it reallylike for all the guys out there
(22:56):
who are like, oh, you know, isthis, you know, is this a real
thing?
Like, does it sideways?
Who like is it really great?
Is it terrible?
What is it like?
Speaker 2 (23:07):
so the first person she ever met didn't want me to
be present, um, so she did italone the first few times.
And the first time they met itwas like a social but with um,
they ended up spending some timetogether in his car and she
gave him head and stuff likethat, but they, um, they ended
up spending some time togetherin his car and she gave him head
and stuff like that, but theynever.
They didn't actually have sexthe first time they met um, and
(23:33):
it wasn't really real.
That first time it didn't feelreal.
Even even though that they'ddone stuff, it just still didn't
feel quite real and it was alljust a little bit ethereal.
And then, the second time theymet, they had sex for hours in
our bed and other places and,honestly, fear nausea.
(23:59):
I can actually feel it rightnow.
Now I'm thinking about, I canfeel some of those feelings
coming back into me right nowbecause I'm almost reliving it.
Uh, yeah, fear nausea, um,genuinely, just what have I done
?
Why have I done this to myself?
Why would anyone do this tothemselves?
It was, if I'm, if I'm beingcompletely honest, horrifying.
(24:23):
I can't describe as anythingelse different to that.
And, um, you know, when I gothome because I was at work when
it happened I got home from workand we sort of got in bed
together just to try to talk toeach other and I just cried um
for quite a while, um, and itwas ugly crying, I can tell you.
(24:48):
Um, it was just not good andthat kind of.
At that point my wife was like,oh, my god, this is like, this
is, this is not, it's not right,we shouldn't be doing this.
And I'm like, no, it's okay,I'll get over it.
You know, it's just the firsttime and, um, you know, I love
you more than anything and it'sjust been a huge amount to
(25:12):
process.
And so she met him a couple moretimes and in the end, I think
the fairest way to put it isthat we decided that, even
though he's a really good fitfor her, it wasn't working for
us, because it did get better.
Each time they met I was lessupset and able to process it
less, but I say, process it moreeven.
(25:34):
But it still wasn't right and Iwas like I just really think I
need to be there and he doesn'twant me to be there.
And so she didn't see him againand then she saw someone else
with me there who was nowherenear as good as the guy that
(25:54):
wouldn't let me be there for her, but it.
It was just a completelydifferent experience, and it
always is.
When I'm there, I don't knowwhy, I'm just involved and I
just feel fine and when I'm notthere it's so much worse, even
though I don't actually doanything when I'm there.
You know I'll sit in the cornerand I really do do the speak
(26:15):
when spoken to you know, move.
when told to move, I just sit inthe corner quietly and let them
do it in the ubiquitous chair.
Obviously, um, the cup chair,um, but yeah, I'll sit there and
just let them get it in theubiquitous chair.
Obviously, the cup chair.
But yeah, I'll sit there andjust let them get on with it and
I just enjoy watching it and Idon't even feel very strong
emotions.
But when I'm not there, evennow, after a few years of doing
(26:39):
this, the emotions are stillvery strong that is fascinating
to me.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
I wonder what it is that just I guess I don't know
there's something about.
Have you tried to dissect that,to figure out what it is about
that?
That is so much more calmingabout you being there than not.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
I think the only thing that I can really put it
down to mainly is that I thinkyour imagination is much more
powerful than than than yourealize, and it's like I kind of
put you if you've ever watcheda film, um, that's been uh,
converted from a book and you'veread the book and the film's
just like disappointing and weakand just not the same, it's
(27:21):
because your imagination,because you can't see what's in
the book, it's just words.
Your imagination has to make itreal and your imagination is
more powerful than your eyes.
I do believe that it sounds alittle bit sort of profound, but
I do believe there's an elementof that to it, because the not
knowing is worse than theknowing.
(28:04):
Right, wow, so you were talkingabout how you said, nausea was
one of the feelings that youfelt in those times when you
weren't there, did it at allthroughout that whole experience
when she was out with him, wasit still a turn on or was it
just completely awful, justawful?
no, it was never a turn on, itwas.
I'm laughing now, which is likeit's not really funny, is it?
But it is funny, but it isn't.
Um, you know, and it was prettyawful.
And even now, when, when shemeets without me there, which is
most of the time, I don'treally get anything out of it
(28:26):
sexually.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Really, but I'm surprised by this.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
I know, I know.
But when she comes home andwe're back together, that's when
I get something out of it.
That's when you know whenshe'll talk to me about what's
happened and you know we reclaimand all the rest of it about
what's happened, and you know wereclaim and all the rest of it.
That's the bit that I reallyenjoy, and the bit leading up to
(28:54):
as well.
You know if we're having sex,if we're in the bedroom and
talking about stuff.
You know the talking aboutwhat's going to happen, the fact
that you might be meeting thenext day or whatever.
That bit is really exciting andfun.
The actual meet itself, if I'mnot there, is just even now.
It's like I don't feel like Idid in the early days, but even
(29:15):
now I still just feel a bit.
You know, I really, oh, I don'tenjoy this.
You know why do I do it.
You know it's even now.
Um, and yeah, I, I know thatthat that's probably more unique
to me than some people.
I know that there will be otherpeople like me everybody's
different, aren't they?
but for me yeah, my enjoymentcomes through her, and if she's
(29:39):
not there I'm not getting theenjoyment yeah because, um,
sorry, um, because essentially,I think, at the center of all
this for me is it always hasbeen and it still is about her.
Um, I, I don't.
I don't think I'm a cook, Ithink I'm her cook.
(30:01):
That, that's really how it isfor me.
I don't think about beingcooked by other people.
The idea of being cooked bysomeone else is ridiculous to me
.
Um, it's her, her cooking mebecause she's everything.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
That's how I can describe it as okay.
Yeah, because I was gonna asklike that first time where you
felt so terrible, did you wantto be like?
I never want to do this again.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
No, wow, it's warped, isn't it?
It's just warped.
I can't even explain it.
The most warped thing about allthis is that at the absolute
lowest points, even at the worstebbs, when I felt really bad, I
wanted to continue and oftenwanted to escalate it.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Okay, yes, we need to dive into this, okay.
So so tell, like explain to thelisteners what that means,
because you're saying that atsome point things took a turn
for the shits like it was justnot not good, right yeah, about.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
I would say about a year and a half into doing it,
um, I started to suffer from, Iwould call it, mild depression
to moderate depression, and itwas definitely triggered by the
cooking um and the way I felt.
Um, I think the the genuinecause of it was just an enormous
(31:25):
crash of my self-esteem, um,and it was at that because I
think it was that point Irealized that, you know, it
wasn't really a game anymore forme, as much as it was starting
to become who I was sexually, um, it was starting to become my
(31:46):
sexual identity, um.
So I've always I've always beenkinky.
I've always liked lots ofdifferent things.
I've been into lots of differentthings and slowly but surely,
over the course of about a yearand a half, I went from being
interested in lots of kinks toonly being interested in one,
and it was getting to the pointwhere I was finding it hard to
become erect without thinkingabout being cooked and all sorts
(32:09):
of things like which.
I'm sure absolutely tons ofcooks have been through that one
.
I think a lot of us get to thatpoint, and so it was that point
my self-esteem really startedto dive and that mild to
moderate depression over thecourse of about two to three
months, became quite severedepression and then, really I
(32:33):
would say for a period of threemonths, I became suicidal,
actually fully suicidal.
So a good day would be methinking about suicide less than
10 times.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Oh wow.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
And then I started to get better and I started to
become less depressed and Iwould say the depression lasted
proper depression lasted forprobably about nine months, like
three months, either side ofthe suicidal thoughts.
And now I would say that I'moccasionally depressed but don't
(33:09):
have depression.
I think is the right way to putit.
So occasionally I havedepressed thoughts, usually when
my wife's meeting.
That's when I'm reallysusceptible to it.
But yeah, I've learned how tocontain it.
I've learned what caused it toa point I really let it in.
I let it in.
I know it sounds like a weirdthing that you can let
(33:30):
depression in, but once itstarted I allowed those thoughts
to fester and really focused onthem and that just turned it
into this really dark, darkplace where the depression
stopped being about cuckoldingand self-esteem and the
depression started to be aboutbeing depressed.
And I don't know if anyone'sever been to that point.
But when you are depressedbecause you're depressed, that's
(33:51):
a cycle that's hard to breakand it's a dark one and you feel
like there's no way out becauseyou're not depressed about what
you were depressed about in thefirst place anymore, you're
just depressed because you'redepressed.
So yeah, it was pretty rough.
It was quite tough and so, yeah, that that's my story and I'd
(34:14):
say I've been well now for sometime, uh, which is great, and
but, like we were saying, evenat the really really bad point,
even when I was feeling suicidal, I didn't want to stop and
would actually often try toescalate things.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
With the cuckolding, yeah, wow.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
It's warped isn't it.
It's actually warped.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Wow, I'm so glad that you're sharing your story.
What kind of resources did youhave?
And I know mental health,especially for men, when it
comes to resources, just suckshere in North America.
For men, when it comes toresources, just sucks here in
north america.
Um, there's just not a lotavailable.
What were you able to draw on?
I'm assuming um medical care,but also um therapy and stuff
like that.
Did you read?
Did you use any of thoseresources?
Speaker 2 (35:04):
no, um, uh, it would be complicated to explain.
It's a subject on its own toexplain why not.
But I, uh, where I live, our,our solution to depression would
be to give me some somemedication, and a lot of those
medications, in my opinion, areworse than the depression.
(35:28):
That's my feeling, and I mightbe talking complete rubbish.
I'm sure there are medicalprofessionals throwing their
laptops at the wall while theylisten to me say this, but
that's just how I feel and Ididn't want to take medication
and the chances of me gettingactual good therapy where I live
(35:51):
is I would rank as slim to none.
Okay, so that's my opinion.
So I toughed it out.
I was honest with my wife.
You know I couldn't talk to herin daylight about it, um, so on
(36:11):
a night time, in bed, you knowwe'd go to bed, like you do, as
a couple cuddle up together, ormaybe not cuddle up together and
then there's time went on, nocuddling and I became incredibly
cold and distant.
I couldn't, couldn't bringmyself.
I had no feelings for her orfor me.
It's weird how depression getsyou like that.
It's not that you don't loveyour partner, it's that you're
(36:33):
not capable of loving anyone oranything.
But, yeah, we'd lay in bed andin the dark, I could tell her
how I felt and you know, the daythat I told her that I'd been
suicidal for quite some time wasprobably the hardest thing I've
ever to do.
It's harder than being cookedway harder.
Um, telling another human beingthat that you are not only
(36:56):
close to suicide, but I've beenclose to suicide for some time
and have thought seriously abouthow you would do it.
Um, and truthfully, I think theonly thing that held me back
was the thought of what it woulddo to my parents, who were
elderly, and how they justwouldn't understand and how it
(37:19):
would hurt them, and I thinkthat probably held me back from
the brink.
But, yeah, so I didn't seekmental health professional help.
I had my partner and that wasit, and she was, to be honest,
incredibly understanding.
But also she found itincredibly difficult because I
(37:43):
mean, when all is said and done,you're watching your partner
self-destruct.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Which has got to be tough for anyone.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Oh my God, I can't even imagine.
And you said throughout all ofit you wanted to continue with
the cuckolding thing and ramp itup.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
Okay, yeah, Okay.
So for a lot of peoplelistening that's going to sound
like just really I don't want tosay unhealthy, but potentially
damaging to not take a breakwith the cuckolding part during
that really horrendous time ofyour life.
If you could go back, would youdo things differently?
Speaker 2 (38:28):
That's a very difficult question to answer.
The rational part of me says,of course we should have done
things differently.
The more emotional side of mesays that I think once I was on
the path to the severedepression, it wouldn't have
(38:50):
made much difference if you'dstopped.
Okay, because once I was in themidst of the deep depression, I
wasn't depressed about cookholding or being a cook, or even
about self-esteem.
It was just about I don't knowhow to describe it.
It sounds weird, even when Isay it myself, having
experienced.
But everything becomes futile.
What's the point in gettingbetter?
(39:12):
You know you.
Why would you get better?
There's no point.
Everything is just dark, andeverything that anyone says to
you, no matter who they are andwhat it is, you see the worst in
it and that it's just hard todescribe, and yeah so.
But I actually don't think itwould have made that much
difference.
There are things that probablywould have helped, but in truth
(39:34):
I would have just felt guiltyfor denying my wife what she was
enjoying, and that would haveadded to my feelings of low
esteem, and I think that wouldhave depressed me further low
esteem and I think that I thinkthat would have depressed me
further.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
So at some point you said it took what?
Nine months until you felt likeyou were back on the road to
recovery after that.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
Right yeah, roughly nine months.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
So did you like were there some changes to be made
during that time to make surethat you don't slip back into
that negative thought pathway,or did you just sort of just be
like, all right, let's do this,I feel better, let's do this
more.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
Are you familiar with the musical the Book of Mormon?
Speaker 1 (40:25):
No.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Okay, so there's a song in that in that called turn
it off like a light bulb, andit's basically about repressing
your homosexuality.
Um, the character's homosexual,but he's a mormon and he's not
supposed to be, so he turns itoff like a light bulb and what
it's a bit of a it's a pooranalogy, I suppose, but
effectively I've learned that ifI let the depressive thoughts
(40:49):
in, I become depressed.
If I notice I'm starting tofeel that way, I just shut it
off.
I just shut it off in my head.
I'm like, no, you're notthinking about that and that
really helps.
Um, and I, I know that that goesagainst much of the mental
health advice that people aregiven, but I think it actually
(41:13):
plays into something, uh, thatprobably people don't practice
enough, which is stoicism, and Iwas not stoic at all and that's
why I collapsed.
If I'd have been stoic and andactually when these depressive
thoughts they're starting, gone,stop thinking like that,
there's no need to think likethat, put it away I probably
(41:33):
would never have becomedepressed.
And I know a lot of peopleagain are probably going to be
ripping their headphones off andstamping on them listening to
me say that, but it's certainlytrue for me that I can control
it.
But if I let it in it kind ofspirals, I don't know, I don't
know how to.
It's like I don't know how todescribe it adequately it's like
(41:55):
if you roll a ball downhill, itgets faster and faster and
faster.
So don't roll the ball down thehill.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
Right, yeah, cause you can't control it once it
starts it's like, yeah, exactlyokay, this is fascinating to me,
um, because since then, your,your wife is, um, she's still
sleeping with other guys, right?
(42:23):
Does she have like a regularbowl that she sees she has a
regular?
Speaker 2 (42:25):
bowl that she sees.
She has a regular bull that shesees.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
Yes, Okay, and you said you're not always there
when she sees him.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
I'm occasionally present, but I'm never in the
room and most of the time theyeither meet away from the house
or they meet at the house whenI'm not here.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
So they only tend to meet at the house with me in if
there's basically, it's just notpractical to do it another way,
and do you feel like you're the?
The cuckolding dynamic in yourrelationship is fulfilling for
you and brings you joy and ishelping your relationship now?
Speaker 2 (43:05):
Yeah um, um, good question.
Um, I would say that, um, itcan be fulfilling.
I think my partner gets a lotout of this particular bull.
It's not just sex, they aredefinitely more friend, with
(43:27):
benefits.
Um, so, you know, they go ondates, they stay overnight with
each other.
Um, they are friends, they havesimilar interests, they make
each other laugh, so there ismuch more to it than just sex.
But I would say also, the sexis about 80 of it, so it is
still mainly a sexualrelationship and so she gets a
(43:51):
lot out of it and he's reallygood at sex.
For her, so, you know, it's veryfulfilling for her, it's a real
outlet and actually, you know,when I was ill, you know that
outlet really helped her to beable to go away and get away
from the depression and thesadness and to go on and meet
(44:11):
with someone who was there withher and just expressing joy
around her.
That that was really great forher and it remains that way.
And so, yeah, um, it it's, it'sa benefit for our relationship
in that sense that she's happierand more relaxed and more
fulfilled.
Um, is it fulfilling?
(44:31):
He's happier and more relaxedand more fulfilled.
Is it fulfilling?
It's not as fulfilling, as ifhe was a more stereotypical bull
, as you would imagine from youknow.
I suppose that well, yeah, thestereotype.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
That's why it's called a stereotype, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (44:51):
But you know, it would be better if it was more
involved with me.
It would be better.
I, I would like to be theircook and I'm not their cook.
I'm her cook and really it'smore.
It's more hot wifing than cookholding because it's although
it's done from a cook, allperspective at home, it's really
(45:12):
more that she's more doing thehot wire thing.
It's more stag, it's more Idon't know how to describe it,
but it's definitely not.
I don't feel like a cook, um,like I want to the mind game is
not there, as much as you notfully okay exactly, and I think
that for us, what we're tryingto find is that balance where,
(45:34):
um, we've sort of reintroduced avery gentle femdom in the house
, so it would be like what youwould call gentle um female led,
so it's not like 24 sevenlifestyle.
But you know, basically I'mexpected to treat my wife with
respect and love at all times,you know, and if I don't, then
(45:59):
there are consequences to that.
And you know she doesn't makeall the decisions, she doesn't
do all the stuff, she doesn'tcontrol me.
I don't have to ask permissionfor things, but she gets a veto.
If she decides that she's nothappy with it, she can just say
no, I don't think we're going todo that and we've introduced
some of those things right andthat that really has helped
because it makes me feel, um Idon't know more valid in the
(46:24):
relationship.
I think the hardest thing todescribe to her is that, as a
cook, um, the thing you learnvery quickly once your wife gets
a a bowl that's really good atfucking her um, you realize that
you're not sexually valid inthe same way anymore.
You know, once upon a time Iwas the center of my wife's
(46:45):
sexual world and that's verymuch not the case.
Now.
You know she has more sex withher ball than she does with me
and that sex is better.
Um, you know, the usualstereotype is why he is bigger
downstairs than I am, you know,and that does have an effect.
She does prefer size and yeah,um.
(47:06):
So, um, you realize you're notsexually valid in the same ways
that you used to be, and for meI still need to be valid, and I
can't do that through fuckingher, so I need to be valid in
other ways, but still, sexually.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (47:28):
Yes, and I've heard this, I've seen this struggle,
I've heard this struggle.
I felt this struggle from somany guys before.
Does that make sense?
Grieving process that you gothrough when you realize that
(47:50):
you're not everything that yourwife was wanting from you and it
seems like to me very egocrushing.
For a lot of guys they're justlike.
This is really damaging to myself identity, knowing that I'm
not what she needs and in thebedroom department.
(48:14):
I don't know, I don't know whyI have such a hard time
understanding that.
I get it.
It's obviously such a thingthat guys feel this way, but I
just don't understand it andthis is probably why so many
guys you see so many questionsout there where guys are like
(48:35):
well, how can your wife not loserespect for you over time if
you can't give her what sheneeds in bed?
It's like what I guess I thinkfor a lot of women, myself
included.
We look at cuckoldingrelationships through the lens
of an abundance mindset, whereyou're like what you're actually
(48:55):
giving her is variety, isexperiences, is more of what she
already was happy with, andthat's the real gift there,
whereas like it's very much.
What's the other side of it?
Abundance, a scarcity mindsetthat guys have where they're
(49:17):
like well, I'm not enough, I amclearly not good enough, I'm not
big enough, I can't give herthis kind of orgasm, I can't
give her every kind of orgasm, Ican't give her all the feels, I
can't be all of that for her.
Therefore, that means somethingabout me and my sense of self
(49:38):
and that is the ego crushingpart.
And it's hard for me tounderstand that part because
that's not how I see it andthat's not how a lot of women
I've spoken to have seen itno-transcript wrong with them or
(50:19):
it's doomed.
And so I guess, if you're fedthat storyline your whole life
and that's what you're used toand everything like that
understanding anything outsideof that little box is probably
wild, wild.
So I I understand that, butit's.
It is like a grieving processthat guys go through where
(50:39):
they're like I'm no longereverything for her sexually.
This is like a very profoundmoment where guys are just, you
know they have to work throughthat and how do you, how do you
get over that?
I don't know, maybe it istraumatizing.
Was it traumatizing for you?
Speaker 2 (51:02):
Oh yeah, I mean and you're exactly right to say it's
like grief.
It is grief, I mean if, if it'slike if a if a family member
dies and you grieve and then youfeel, oh, I didn't spend enough
time with them, I could havegone to see them, I could have
done this for them.
Now they're gone, then yourself-esteem drops because you
know you've been, you feel likeyou've let them down, you feel
(51:24):
guilty, you feel bad and thenthat can make the grief worse
and that's when people can endup from that point and end up
being depressed and all the restof it.
That is exactly the same.
It's exactly the same for whatI went through.
I grieved for my loss of manhoodand I know that is really
really, really stupid, but alsoI still did.
(51:47):
I knew it was stupid, I knew itwas wrong to feel that way, I
knew I knew I shouldn't befeeling so bad about myself
because you know, at the end ofthe day, my wife has the same
mindset as you, so she's got theabundance mindset and and you
know, she does still enjoyhaving sex with me and she does
still want to have sex with meand, to be honest, um, most of
(52:11):
the kinky stuff we're doing,most of the dirty talk and all
that stuff.
That's for my benefit.
Um, she'd be more than happyjust to have vanilla sex with me
.
Still, um, and, and so I knowit's my I'll call it my problem,
even though problem is notreally the right word.
It's my problem, it's my issue.
I'm the one that feels this wayand I totally respect what you
say is.
It's's 100% grief, and that iswhat I went through.
Speaker 1 (52:32):
Yeah, yeah, it's amazing to me.
Okay, you said something onReddit.
I went through all of yourposts and there was a bunch of
things that you wrote aboutcuckolding fantasy versus
reality.
That was the original post andyou had many comments on there,
but one thing was so fascinatingto me.
(52:52):
This one really stuck out.
You said I don't think thiskink would turn me on if it
wasn't hard for me, though yousaid it works less well for her
that I struggle.
And you said it's always abalance for us where possible.
And I've heard this before aboutthe taboo part of cuckolding,
(53:15):
where it wouldn't be as fun andenjoyable if it wasn't taboo, if
it wasn't something that you'renot supposed to do.
But I found it interesting thatyou said that it's the struggle
that pulls you in, and I'm soconfused by this.
Is this like emotionalmasochism?
(53:37):
Is this where you're like youpurposely want to struggle and
you want to go experience theunpleasantness of the angst and
the feelings of shame andeverything?
Because, because ultimately, itdoes turn you on?
Is this really how it works inyour mind?
Speaker 2 (53:58):
Kind of yeah, I mean, I think it would be akin to.
It's like when you go on agiant roller coaster, right, and
for starters you know youshouldn't be going at 70 miles
an hour in the open, at 400 feet, that's not natural.
And as you get to the top ofthe hill on a roller coaster,
(54:19):
your heart's in your mouth andyour mouth goes dry and you're
like, oh my god.
And as you start to go theother side, the first feeling
you get is I won't go as far asterror, but it's fear.
And it's get is I won't go asfar as terror, but it's fear,
and it's like adrenaline and allthese things.
And then as you start going on,you feel the speed.
Suddenly that becomes pleasure.
(54:39):
Okay, and so as human beings, weseek out things that scare us.
For starters, we just do it.
Even the most risk aversepeople in some way find things
that throw into them.
So.
So I think there's an elementof that to it.
Things that scare you are alsosomething that we seek to enjoy.
It's like people watchinghorror films to be scared.
(54:59):
Why would you watch somethingthat's horrible and scary?
But we do, and I think withCuckold in it.
It's that struggle, that sort ofangst, that fear, all of that
is what makes it compulsive, andit is compulsive.
I would say it's probablyaddictive.
(55:23):
There is nothing in my lifethat I am so compelled to do as
this, nothing.
I mean, I'm in the fortunateposition that the nest is empty,
the kids have flown, they havetheir own lives, it's me and my
wife together, and so, um, we,we have the freedom to explore
(55:46):
and do things for ourselves now.
But, yeah, there's nothing inlife.
No, no interest has consumed melike this.
You know, no hobby, um, nosexual, uh, king, nothing.
And and it it why I would sayit's like an addiction.
Is that the last hit?
(56:06):
Well, that was great, but thenext one to feel the same, you
have to go further.
Right for it to, because thethings I think back now, the
things that like used to driveme wild when we first started,
before we didn't talk to anybody.
I look like back at that now.
Wow, that was pretty tame.
And I think about would thatstimulate me now?
(56:27):
No, right, because you know,like, just the idea of a kiss in
someone would, would send me upthe wall, and I mean I, I've
seen and had described to methings that go way beyond that.
Now you know, and it's like, um, so yeah, it becomes, it's one
of those things that the moreyou, more you do it, the more
(56:50):
you to do it, the harder youneed to go, and the struggle is
part of it.
Yeah, the struggle isdefinitely part of it.
Feeling the emotional struggle,well, I mean, it's the angst,
isn't it?
You know, the cook angsteverybody talks about and it's
real.
Speaker 1 (57:05):
I can just imagine, though, how difficult this kind
of relationship is for yourpartner, though, like she, I
just how confusing this is forwomen, Because we don't want to
harm our partner, we don't wantto cause distress, we don't.
I mean.
It's not only that you, youknow you don't want to hurt your
partner, but it's a dangeroussituation for women to be in too
(57:27):
.
What if you, you know yourhusband really wants you to cuck
him, and the first time hecan't handle the emotion of it
and he flips out and hits youlike?
This could be dangerous for us,but it's just so confusing for
us to understand that you still,you want, still, want this, you
(57:49):
desire this so much and, uh,you know, you know the ramping
up of it, and yet it feels likeit can be so damaging.
At the same time, it must be soconfusing as a woman to be in
that kind of scenario.
Speaker 2 (58:06):
Yeah, and I mean certainly.
I mean it's easy for me to saythere was never any risk that I
would have become violenttowards my partner.
I was too busy wallowing inself-pity for that, I think.
But I think that the thingabout it hurting me for her that
(58:30):
being really difficult, that isreally true.
And of all the things to do withcooking, that has been the
thing that has been hardest forher and she really dislikes that
.
And you know it's beentraumatising for her.
You know she suffered with mewhen I was ill.
(58:51):
You know it's been traumatizingfor her.
You know she suffered with mewhen I was ill.
You know, absolutely no doubt,and I could see that.
And, of course, when you cansee your partner suffering
because of you, you become moredepressed.
Yeah, you know, because, oh myGod, I'm such a bad person.
Even my depression is hurtingother people.
You know.
Yeah, so yeah, it was reallydifficult for her, really
(59:12):
difficult, and still is.
You know, when she sees that ithurts me.
And you know we still have timeswhen things are hard.
You know, even though thingsare so, so, so, so much better,
sometimes we have times where wehave to talk it out because
it's become difficult.
Yeah, I don't know if that willever go away.
I mean, I'm much more.
(59:34):
I am at peace with myself.
I am like genuinely at peacewith it.
Now I don't struggle with itanymore.
I still wouldn't want anyone inmy real life to know what we do
.
You know, friends and family donot know what we do, and I
would never want that becauseI've still got too much social
(59:54):
conditioning for that too, muchsocial conditioning for that
kind of thing.
But yeah, um, I've accepted whoI am and I'm comfortable with it
, and I think I've I've stillgot a way to go with accepting.
Um, it's still difficultsometimes to accept that my
partner loves me and wants me,and I think at the heart of that
(01:00:19):
is that when there's this otherperson and they like the other
person, they like to talk tothem, they like to do things
with them, and then this otherperson is so much better at sex
with them as well, there isalways that thing you're going,
well, they should really just bewith them right, yeah, that's
what.
Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
That's what so many people don't understand about
cuckolding.
They're like, well, why would?
Why would she still?
And that's why a lot of cucksdoubt their self-worth.
They're like, well, why wouldshe still want me?
Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
I'm not relevant anymore, you know yeah,
absolutely, and and that is it.
It's that, it's that lack ofrelevance.
That's what's damaging, I think, because you do feel irrelevant
, you do feel redundant and insome ways you are, you know,
sexually, you know you're not.
It is true that you know to toa degree.
Yeah, your partner does wantthe other person more when it
(01:01:11):
comes to sex, if they're doingit right, which you know a
current bold does wow, okay.
Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
So on reddit, there is this big community there for
about cuckolding and it'sfascinating to read a lot of the
comments that are on there.
There's some really goodcomments, very insightful
comments.
There's some really shittyadvice that I've come across on
there, some really crazy advice,but lots of people wondering
(01:01:42):
what cuckolding is really like.
Let's face it, there's a ton ofguys out there fantasizing
about this.
That's what the research hasshown.
Men are fantasizing about thisway more than women are and way
more often, and so, um, you knowlots of different stories about
that.
What are you hoping that peopletake away?
(01:02:16):
Uh, most about this?
About you sharing your story onthe show today.
What are you hoping that peopleare going to take away from
this?
Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
I think if there's one thing that sort of scares me
, it's that people go on thingslike reddit on on.
I mean, one particular one thatI look at a lot is cookhold
psychology.
And they go on reddit and theysee these posts and it's clear
to me that a lot of them justaren't based in reality.
Like probably 90 percent of theposts on reddit about
(01:02:45):
cookholding are probably frompeople who've never actually
done it would be my guess, and Ithink you know it's like
cheerleading.
It really is.
It's like give me a c, give mea u, give me a c, give me a k,
go cook, you know.
And, like you know, people willbe going oh, you know, we've
talked about it and we'rethinking about it, but I'm not
sure.
And you just get like 50comments going do it, do it, you
(01:03:09):
know.
And it's like, well, whoa, slowdown.
And so I think for me, I thinkit's important that people
realize that there's a dark sideto it.
Uh, it's not, you know.
And and you don't know howyou're going to feel till you do
it, you really don't.
No one can know, no one canknow.
And and I also want to say thatthere have been some really
(01:03:32):
positive moments from cookingand some real highs.
You know we've talked a lotabout the downsides today.
There are some great bits to it, really great bits.
Watching the sexual confidencein my wife, watching how her own
body image has changed, stufflike that has just just been
amazing, like the best thingever.
(01:03:53):
But there is this other side toit and I think that people
there's just too many people onthe internet trying to convince
you to go for it and I wantpeople to really see that that
like the reality of it is, itcould be bad and not just crying
next to your wife while she'shaving sex.
Bad, but actually could takeyou to a place that you don't
(01:04:15):
really realize you're going togo and actually that place can
be quite dark.
Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
Yeah, yeah, well said , absolutely All right, we are
out of time for the show today.
John, I'm just, I'm so happythat you've come to to share
your story and I'm, like, I'mvery proud of you for coming on
the show and sharing your story,because I know that a lot of
people are would be nervous todo such a thing, but I I really
(01:04:41):
appreciate your openness andyour honesty about this side of
cuckolding.
So thank you so much for comingon the show today.
Speaker 2 (01:04:50):
No problem.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:04:53):
That's going to be it for today's episode.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
Make sure you go tovenuscuckoldresscom.
That's where you can book aprivate chat with me, and you
can also join the QueensQuarters community and get all
the amazing benefits, like theprivate podcast and the helpful
cuck tier, where you can get keyholding for the private
(01:05:15):
Snapchat group, monthly privatechats with me and weekly live
hangouts and invites to speciallive events.
Oh, and you can also submit aquestion or confession for the
show.
Just go to venuscuckledresscomand click on the link that says
the podcast.
Make sure you follow me on BlueSky Social.
(01:05:36):
Yes, I said Blue Sky Social.
Fuck Twitter.
My handle there is atCuckoldressV.
All right, that's it fortoday's show, you guys, we'll
see you next time.
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