April 5, 2025 • 44 mins
The Veteran Yoga Project provides free yoga classes specifically designed for veterans nationwide, addressing both physical and mental health needs through mindfulness practices that complement traditional PTSD treatments.
• Founded by Dr. Daniel Libby during his Yale postdoctoral fellowship to fill a gap in veteran care
• Classes are completely free and unlimited for all veterans through in-person, hybrid, and online formats
• Instructors receive specialized training in "Mindful Resilience" to accommodate veterans' specific needs
• Focus extends beyond physical postures to mindfulness, breathing, and emotional regulation techniques
• Designed to be accessible to all veterans regardless of flexibility or fitness level
• Approaches yoga as a practical tool for managing pain, reducing PTSD symptoms, and improving daily function
• Veterans can find classes by visiting veteranyogaproject.org or using their mobile app
• The organization relies on donations to maintain its infrastructure and services
Visit veteranyogaproject.org to find a class near you or access online resources. Consider donating to support their mission of bringing yoga to veterans everywhere.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Scott McLean (00:00):
Welcome to the podcast.
I'm Scott McLean.
My guest today is LindsayHildebrandt.
Now, if you've heard that namerecently, it was because she did
a previous episode ofrepresenting the Florida Leads
Project, and Florida LeadsProject is doing great work in
the field of suicide prevention,including veterans.
But now she's here in adifferent capacity Veteran Yoga
(00:23):
Project.
How are you doing, Lindsay?
Lindsey Hildebrand (00:30):
I'm doing great.
Thanks for having me once againand stuff.
Scott McLean (00:32):
I'm becoming a veteran in my own right in this
podcast and, as we discussedbefore the episode, there will
be another episode coming upwith Lindsay.
Lindsey Hildebrand (00:40):
I know you just keep allowing me time and
time again and I don't know why.
Scott McLean (00:44):
Yeah, and if you want Lindsay to be a co-host on
this podcast, just let me know.
I think Lindsay's a busy, busywoman.
I don't think she has time.
Lindsey Hildebrand (00:54):
Yeah, I was like I would love to have the
time I really would, and stuffmore like that is another thing
of me biting off more than I canchew as much as I would love to
do it.
Scott McLean (01:05):
I do, I know that feeling.
Yeah, I know you do, yes, yes.
So all right, lindsay, let'sget right into it.
The Veteran Yoga Project.
Give us the origin of it.
Lindsey Hildebrand (01:15):
Yeah, so this was a project that was
started by our founder, drDaniel Libby.
So this is when he was apostdoctoral fellow over in
Connecticut with Yale.
He kind of centered his entireresearch around PTSD treatments
for service members and, youknow, really identified this gap
(01:38):
in care for veterans and whatyoga could really do for
veterans as a supplementaltreatment for PTSD.
So he came up with the ideathat really started Veterans
Yoga Project and saw that youknow there wasn't really
anything widely available interms of yoga programming for
veterans.
(01:59):
Right, it was really up to theveteran to go find a yoga studio
studio and, like you know, yogastudios do cost a lot of money
and stuff.
And so he wanted to come up witha like formalized plan and way
to deliver yoga specificallytailored for veterans.
That got after like mindfulnessand then really using it as a
(02:21):
supplement for, like, reducingPTSD symptomologies.
So that's kind of how theImpetus for Veterans Yoga
Project kind of started and itreally ballooned out from there.
It started in Connecticut andthen it grew into a nationwide
program where we're broken downinto regions and stuff and we've
actually expanded all the wayup into Canada so now we're
(02:42):
technically international,expanded all the way up into
Canada, so now we're technicallyinternational and so.
But it really centered aroundthe idea of delivering, you know
, relevant yoga programming forall veterans.
Now it started with you knowfolks that you know had you know
diagnoses of PTSD that he wasseeing over at the VA hospital.
So we pair with the VA a lot onour projects but also expanding
(03:04):
that out so all veterans canhave a place to access yoga
programming.
Scott McLean (03:10):
So when they started branching out, how did
that?
What was the evolution of that?
Do you know?
Lindsey Hildebrand (03:16):
Yeah.
So they got nonprofit statusback in like 2011.
And so he gained a little bit ofa following, started like
training other trainers andstuff and using that that T2T
model Right and then startedalso delivering what was called
like the mindful resiliencetraining.
So it was really trying to alsotrain other yoga teachers in how
(03:41):
to, you know, perform yogaclasses in a way that was
accessible for veterans andkeeping in mind the specific
considerations that veterans had, you know, in doing a yoga
class and stuff, because the waywe teach is very different than
what you would typically seewithin maybe like more of a
traditional yoga studio, becauseveterans do come in with a lot
(04:04):
of specific considerations,whether that's related to their
PTSD symptomology, potential TBItrauma, and so we incorporated
that into a lot of our teachingsthrough that mindful resilience
.
So all of our yoga teachers gothrough that mindful resilience
training seminar and I thinkfrom there it just kind of
ballooned out because peoplerealized like this was really
(04:26):
important to know Veterans thatwere taking these classes also
caught on.
The yoga community caught onand it really just expanded out
from there Because other VAsstarted hearing about this and
were like, oh, this would bereally great to integrate in
with our you know treatments forPTSD and offering it as a as a
supplement to reduce theirsymptomology.
Scott McLean (04:48):
So the Veteran Yoga Project.
Whenever they branch out likethese people say, hey, I want to
start a kind of a branch of theVeteran Yoga Project.
Lindsey Hildebrand (04:58):
Yeah, so what's really great about
Veterans Yoga Project is likeyou have specific regions but
then within those regions youcan like you can realistically
start and you're listed under alocation.
So if, for example, a veteranwas looking for you know
something located over in likeTucson, arizona, where I used to
(05:18):
teach and stuff like, theycould find me and find where I
taught classes and then connectin with me and attend those
classes and stuff.
So we get listed.
But you essentially can startup specific classes as long as
it's approved by Veterans YogaProject to teach and stuff.
I've taught at veteran ownedbreweries and stuff which always
seem to be very popular forsome reason, don't know why
(05:41):
Brewery and yoga some reasondon't know why, and so but the
most popular class.
we did some beer yoga.
We've done, you know, we pairwith the VA as well A lot of the
time.
So I taught at the Tucson VAcenter with their, with their
physical therapy department,which was a really amazing
(06:01):
experience.
I've taught at, you know, atother places, in private clinics
, in private studios, and so,you know, veterans Yoga Project
really tries to give somelatitude because it's really
more about increasing thataccessibility and you know,
getting a yoga teacher that istrained to.
You know, teach veterans andteach them in an inclusive way
(06:21):
in approaching yoga and likemaking sure that veterans can
connect with that resource, andfor free.
Scott McLean (06:28):
So, as you mentioned earlier, veterans come
with a different say mindset.
Say you have 10 veterans in theroom.
How do you work that?
Lindsey Hildebrand (06:40):
We really try to approach it in a way
where you know we have somegeneral guidelines about like,
hey, how are we as yoga teachersorienting the room like maybe a
better way of kind ofdescribing it is kind of compare
you to a, like, private studiosession.
So a lot of the times you knowthey'll, you know they'll close
(07:01):
the doors, they'll dim thelights, they use scents.
Sometimes that might not begood for a veteran, especially
if that's a particularly youknow they'll close the doors,
they'll dim the lights, they usescents.
Sometimes that might not begood for a veteran, especially
if that's a particularly, youknow, triggering situation.
Or like, you know, we orientthem to where they can see the
exits.
We want to promote safety rightwithin the space that we're in.
Or at least I do a briefupfront and stuff of being like,
(07:26):
hey, let me know of anyinjuries that I should know
about and stuff, because then Ican adapt my class in a way that
you know where I'm teachingeverybody, but then I can give
specific, you know,modifications that will better
suit that veterans like kind oflike functional ability and
functional movement, right.
Because at the end of the day,I think one of the other things
(07:46):
we really have to work throughwith veterans is really breaking
that yoga stereotype about whatit's supposed to look like and
more being like no, this is atime that you know you can
really take time out foryourself to really connect in
with your body and understandwhat and kind of increasing that
level of awareness, right,which really taps into emotional
(08:08):
regulation, mindfulness,autonomic regulation, a lot of
these core, you know,psychological principles that
they're that they might be doingin like therapy and other types
of treatments and stuff that wecan bring to a space where it's
a little bit more accessibleand then also, just, you know,
trying to make sure that we justmeet them where they're at
(08:29):
right.
Because really for me, like ifanybody ever saw me teaching, I
don't look like the world's mostgraceful yoga teacher and stuff
like I'm like, but I'm moreabout like, hey, if we're coming
in to develop and make surethat you can do really good
functional movements, right,like you can do basic things in
life, you can navigate and beable to be like not completely,
(08:51):
you know, discomforting or inpain, you know in throughout
your life and stuff, you knowbarring any like chronic
illnesses or chronic pain andstuff that way for them to, like
I said, approach it inaccessible way.
So there are ways to adapt it.
And that is something that Iwill say I think we do a little
bit more deliberately is reallywatching for those things and
(09:13):
also being able to tailor ourclasses based on you know where
our veterans are coming from andstuff, but also just kind of
understanding what, what thosepotential like traumatic events
that might lead to additionalconsiderations in how we like
kind of set up the environmentof our class.
So we, you know, we, I think wedo a lot more kind of pre
(09:36):
planning up front than a lot ofyoga teachers might do in a
traditional studio setting.
Scott McLean (09:41):
How many sessions does the veteran get?
Are there?
Is there a number as long?
Lindsey Hildebrand (09:46):
as they want to come to class, like they are
invited to come to class, so inyeah, it's, you know, like no
bars, limited and stuff as longas the class is running, they
can come and join for free.
And so, you know, we have ourin-person classes.
Sometimes we'll offer it in ahybrid modality, and then we
(10:06):
also have our online platform,so where they can access live
classes for free, virtually, butthey can also go back and look
at old videos, so they, we canreally meet people across the
spectrum, because sometimes it's, like you know, people have to
work, they have other conflictsand stuff, but they still want
to be able to, you know, attendclass in like a live way or like
(10:31):
they want to see the recordinglater.
We want to give them thoseoptions.
So we kind of offer the fullspectrum of offering those
services for free to the veteranbecause it's you know, I think
it's what's right and but it'salso what?
What benefits the veteran atthe end of the day?
Scott McLean (10:44):
It's a of like how I here comes, my cheap plug, my
cheap plug for my foundation.
That's kind of how the One man,one Mic Foundation operates.
I work that in.
Lindsey Hildebrand (10:56):
It was a great transition.
Scott McLean (10:58):
Yeah, we work with veterans all over the country
and we teach them how to podcast, just like if a veteran wanted
to go on to your website and doa live class.
It's an amazing way to reachliterally the world.
You'll check it out.
One man, one mic foundationorg.
That's my cheap plug.
I'm done.
Lindsey Hildebrand (11:15):
I won't take your time anymore you're not
taking my time at all let me uh,everybody, you should know
about one man, one mic that'sright, there you go.
Scott McLean (11:23):
You just really, you're just making yourself the
best guest ever.
Lindsey Hildebrand (11:29):
I would dispute it, but I'll take your
word.
Scott McLean (11:33):
So how do veterans come into your class?
Are they recommended throughthe VA, or is it word of mouth,
or they just find it?
And what?
How do you handle the stigma ofmen and yoga, which is a thing?
Lindsey Hildebrand (11:51):
Very much is a thing.
So I think a lot of ourveterans do find out about it
through the VA because we dopartner with a lot of our VA
campuses in particular.
So they know it's a servicethat's offered where sometimes
it's hosted is a little bitdifferent.
As I mentioned, I was in kindof more the physical and
(12:11):
holistic therapy department.
That's where I hosted myclasses, that's where they have
the space for me and to do likethe actual physical classes and
in-person classes.
But you know, sometimes we'llactually get to host those
classes on a weekly or bi-weeklybasis through the VA.
Sometimes it's like a referralprocess.
They can find us through thewebsite.
(12:32):
A lot of the times it's word ofmouth, but a lot of the times
it's also us just getting theword out as yoga teachers and
being like, hey, you know,please join us for this class.
Getting onto community forumsand being like, hey, this is a
free class for veterans.
Like, please, pre-register.
I would say a lot of theupfront work is like us making
sure that the word gets outright, Because you know, when I
(12:54):
was teaching at theveteran-owned brewery and stuff,
it was like a completely, youknow, completely separate thing
from the VA.
But a lot of folks heard aboutit from the VA being like, hey,
there's this like great freebeer, yoga class that's with
this nonprofit and stuff and inpartnership with this brewery
and stuff like you should go andwe would like put posters out
(13:16):
and stuff and they wouldadvertise.
I think word of mouth istypically how you get a lot more
buy in, especially in relationto men doing yoga and having
that self stigma.
Once again, I think it comesfrom that place of like yoga
needing to really look a veryspecific way and that it's
(13:38):
something where you have to havea lot of flexibility and you
need to be able to go into thesereally intricate poses and,
like you know, you have to donall the Lululemon gear and stuff
and basically become a walkingadvertisement board.
And I was like and I I'm reallyagainst a lot of that where I'm
like, you know, I'm coming inas your, as a teacher, but I'm
(14:01):
really here as a guide, like Idon't know what it's like to
live in that person's body, inthat individual's body.
So being like you need to adaptthis, however you need to, to
get whatever you need out of thepractice.
And so if I think, inapproaching it in that way, when
being like, hey, this is a wayfor you to like practice good,
(14:22):
like you know stretching, orlike a lot of the times when I,
when I deal with men who aremaybe a little bit hesitant, I
was like think about it as likepost-workout recovery or
advanced recovery, right, likeyou're prepping your body for,
like when you're going to go hita hard workout, right, it's
like making sure that you knowyou're warmed up correctly, like
(14:42):
you have good, you know goodfunctional movement, good
mobility like those are kind ofways to kind of kind of promote
it, where somebody who mightthink it's a little bit too
wooey and stuff because of youknow what they've seen from
other studios and be like no,this is really about getting
your body preps, like tuning in,faring out and developing like
(15:04):
that body awareness, but alsojust making sure that we're
actually like taking care of ourbody so we can do what we need
to do in day to day life.
And approaching in that manner Ithink really helps reduce that
that stigma.
It makes it to where it's notexclusionary.
I think the yoga community inparticular sometimes does a
really bad job of making itinclusive for veterans and
(15:26):
active duty service members inparticular, and so because
they're teaching in a way thatit's like you know, if you're
setting off a bunch of incenseand you're like doing crazy,
crazy poses that like don'treally help folks with, you know
dealing with pain that theymight have from like rucking
running, you know knee pain fromlike jumps and stuff or like
(15:49):
like being able to tie that tothe things that you're doing in
the practice will make it towhere people have a lot less
stigma.
right, you want to connect itwith the way where it's like,
hey, this is like good for lowerback pain, especially for y'all
that you know deal with.
You know putting on a ruckevery day, or like you know
we're, we're in an infantry unitand stuff, and just trying to
(16:11):
tie it and connect it back, Ithink really helps.
So that way people see thevalue in it and it's like oh,
it's not just you know a posefor the sake of doing a pose.
It's like something that'smeant to alleviate discomfort,
is meant to help them likeactually tune in and pay
attention to that, like that'sreally the best that we can do
(16:32):
in in terms of making it anapproachable practice.
Scott McLean (16:37):
So it's interesting we're talking about
this.
It just dawned on me, as youwere telling that, that that
story is so the other day I wasgoing to breakfast and I was
meeting I was meeting mydaughter for breakfast and I
live in Boca Raton.
I go into this plaza where therestaurant is and I see all
these women, like we call it,they call it like Boca babes, I
(17:00):
guess whatever but they're allin there Like there's a yoga
studio popped up, like I'd neverseen it before to be there,
coming in and out, and they'reall fit and they're all
Lululemon doubt, they're allyoga pants doubt, and you know
it's just and and honestly it'sit's a funny story.
But I look, I kind of thoughtabout it.
(17:21):
I go, there's no way I wouldever try to go in there.
Like there's no way I wouldever try to go in there.
You know, okay, as a guy, I knowthe guys that are listening are
going.
I'll go in there, yeah, but foryoga people, for yoga, for
actual yoga, it is kind ofintimidating to hear the yoga
(17:41):
and that's kind of theperception that men have.
I'm sure I speak for a lot ofus With that like that's like
you got to be fit to already doit, because everybody I see
going in and out of this placeis they're all fit, yeah, and
and I would argue like that isreally not, it shouldn't be the
(18:03):
case.
Lindsey Hildebrand (18:04):
Right, where it's like everybody has to
start somewhere, like if you'recoming into a yoga class where
you're already in like perfectshape and stuff, I would argue
you're probably not going to getthat much actually out of the
practice.
Right, like the biggest gainsare made from like smaller
starting points, and really thatmisconception, I think, bars a
lot of people from doing it,because there is this notion of
(18:26):
like I have to be like fit to doyoga, like the most important
practice in yoga is thebreathing aspects and like that
is what they teach us from dayone in like yoga teacher
training.
Where it's like and I reallyconsider this where I literally
have folks that sit in like ourfinal resting pose, like
Shavasana, the entire class, andI forever love those students
(18:51):
because all they're doing isjust sitting there with their
breath in their body and stuff,and for me that is like the
quintessential best yoga thatyou can get.
Right, because you're sittingdown, you're paying attention to
what's going on in your body,you're creating a space where
you can do that and you'repracticing mindfulness, you're
practicing autonomic breathing,like the movement practice, is
(19:12):
really great and a lot of peoplecome in for the physical aspect
of that.
But I would argue that thatbreathing, that autonomic
regulation piece, that thatmindfulness piece are way more
important components of it and Iwould say it's like it is the
core things and like if the onlything you're getting out of
yoga is a physical practice notthat it's wrong I would say
(19:33):
you're actually missing out onthe most important things, which
is like the thing that I tellmost of my veterans who are like
convinced that they can't comein and like do the practice.
I'm like I am good with youjust lying down, like if you're
comfortable, closing your eyesand just breathing.
Like just breathing there,taking time, paying attention to
what's going on and stuff, likethat's the best type of
(19:55):
practice and stuff.
I think that also helps,because I don't know if that's a
bad thing, but like power yogahas kind of become the what
everybody sees, like with yourBoca babes and stuff, that's
probably the type of yoga thatthey were doing.
Scott McLean (20:08):
That's right.
Lindsey Hildebrand (20:16):
And like but and there's nothing wrong with
that, but it's it.
I would say it's not reallylike the.
The point of yoga, like thephysical practice is there to
help tap into those other things, like it's a bridge to make
sure those other portions happen.
But it's not the only way topractice yoga.
And like those foundationalpillars, with breathing and like
mindfulness and really justlike paying attention, is far,
(20:38):
far more important.
And I would argue the betteryogis are, the ones that can tap
into that, the better studentsand stuff are, you know, the
ones that kind of really payattention to those core pillars.
And at the end of the day, Iwould much rather have a veteran
sit down and do those thingsthan engage in a physical
practice if they're not ready.
Scott McLean (20:58):
So so like that's, let's talk about that.
It's not just the physicalaspect of yoga, it's the mental
aspect of it too.
Now you have veterans coming in, some with, like we said, ptsd,
tbi, which this is way moreimportant than the physical
aspect of it.
Now you know, healthy body,healthy mind, they say.
I question that sometimes.
Lindsey Hildebrand (21:20):
I don't know if that's always the case right
, it's a dual, it's a dualrelationship, right, and you
know, we know this from theresearch, right, it's why you
know chronic pain in particularis so debilitating to mental
health and stuff into physicalhealth and like it, and we're
really encouraging to, topractice both and that's one of
(21:42):
the great things about yoga isyou have the capability to
practice both and there'sdifferent types of yoga for for
different types of folks andwhat they need, right.
Like you can do a power yogaclass if you need something,
where it's like it's keepingyour attention, you're hitting
it really quick, you're doinglike one breath for movement and
stuff.
But you know, sometimes that'smaybe not what you actually need
(22:03):
or what that veteran actuallyneeds, right, maybe they need
like a slower class wherethey're stretching, they're
sitting longer and poses andstuff.
And but they're, you know,they're getting deeper into
those stretches, they're workinga little bit more into that,
into those muscles, like that'sa little bit, that might be what
that day calls for, what thatveteran needs and the and the
(22:23):
teacher has to really be able tokind of like tune in and adapt
to that and but it's likerealistically we should be
taking care of both as yogateachers, but it's also
something that we have to buildfor the folks that are coming
into these classes to reallymake sure that they tune into,
cause I think with you know,with military and veterans, one
(22:47):
of the hardest things to reallyget them to do is to listen, to
listen to what they actuallyneed in that moment.
Because what are you conditionedto do in the military?
A lot of the times is to pushand push and push and kind of
tune out those and tune outthose signals.
And what we're asking to do isthe opposite of that.
(23:10):
Right, where we're like we needyou to really tune in and
listen and understand whenyou're it's like to kind of push
a healthy edge or when you needto take it back and stuff for
the sake of your body, for thesake of, like, your mental
health and stuff, and I thinkyoga is a really great conduit
where that can happen.
And when we get that balanceright, we're taking care of
(23:33):
their physical body, so that waythey can take care of their
mind, but they're using those,those mental skills, to be able
to tap into that physical spacetoo.
Scott McLean (23:47):
Is it a sort of?
Lindsey Hildebrand (23:47):
meditation involved with yoga.
Yeah, sometimes with yoga thereis a little bit of a I would
say, a misnomer about likemeditation has to happen in yoga
.
About like meditation has tohappen in yoga.
It's the um, and I specifically, you know, speak to more of
(24:08):
like what we try to get after inveterans yoga project, which is
really more of the mindfulnesspiece.
So it's kind of like the whole.
Like you know, a square is arectangle, but a rectangle is in
a square right or vice versa.
I might've screwed that up.
Scott McLean (24:19):
I think, I think the listeners get it.
Lindsey Hildebrand (24:23):
Mindfulness can be a meditation, but not all
meditations are mindfulness.
Mindfulness is in.
John Cobbetson, who was kind ofthe founder of
mindfulness-based stressreduction, would define it as
like paying attention on purposein the moment, which is
ultimately what you know.
When you're doing a yoga class,what are you doing?
You're paying attention to yourbody, you're using
(24:45):
proprioception, like where yourbody is at in time and space and
being able to coordinatemovements, like you're
inherently paying attentionright, because otherwise you'd
be like falling over constantlyand hurting yourself, which is
not what we want, and so.
But there are some meditationaspects if it's comfortable to
the veteran, sometimes it's notright, sometimes it's not
something some people feelcomfortable with.
(25:06):
So what I usually do for likemeditation is like we don't.
Some people practice mantras andstuff, and if that's okay for
them, that's great, and so Ireally try to focus on more of
the mindfulness based stressreduction aspects.
So we go through, likeprogressive muscle relaxation or
a body scan or like deliberatebreathing exercises, to where
(25:27):
that person is paying attentionto what is going on within their
body and using kind of liketheir top-down processing, their
cognitive you know their, youknow cognitive attention and
control to be able to reallymonitor what is going on and
being able to, like regulatetheir breathing, you know, and
(25:48):
know what's going on with withintheir body, like where they
feel pain or tension or whetherthey don't feel anything at all,
and being able to use that, Ithink, is a little bit more
helpful than maybe what peoplethink in a traditional kind of
like meditation sense for yourkind of gain, this ethereal
feeling and stuff, andtranscending like I would rather
bring it back to that body,make that good mind body
(26:10):
connection, because we knowthat's so important is a huge
predictive outcome.
And in terms of like reduced youknow, symptomology, whether
it's related to PTSD, whetherreduced like somatic symptoms as
well, but also like reducedistress, anxiety, depression.
It's been shown time and timeagain in the research what yoga
(26:33):
can do on that aspect,especially when it incorporates
those mindfulness-based stressreduction strategies.
So while I think meditation istraditionally a part of yoga, it
doesn't necessarily have to be.
Scott McLean (26:47):
So it's more of a grounding.
Lindsey Hildebrand (26:49):
There is a lot of adage to the whole, like
take a breath and so, becausethat's you know, it's tied to
your autonomic nervous system,right, like when we feel anxious
, our heart rate increases, ourpupils dilate, like we get
really that's why we get tunnelvision.
Like, really, you know,learning how to regulate that
through breath work that'soffered in yoga and through
(27:12):
mindfulness practices is, Ithink, a really key component to
that emotion, that higher levelemotion regulation piece.
So when things do feeloverwhelming, you know, in life,
and when we're taking on ourdaily stressors, like our
veterans already have the toolsto deal with that because
they're practicing it on theirmat, they're practicing it in a
(27:32):
space that feels safe.
So when they're in a space thatis, you know, an environment
that feels distressing oruncomfortable and stuff, they
already have those toolsavailable to them to where
they're transferring it, youknow, not just on the mat, right
, but the whole point is to takethose skills off the mat and
into daily life right Like thatis the like.
(27:54):
Yoga is a tool to be able to doit Right and like, and I think
that's really where Dr Libby sawlike the value in it is being
like you know how these veteransare really transitioning a lot
of the skills that we wereteaching to.
You know normal everyday lifeso that way they could have like
social, occupational and justdaily well being and so because
(28:16):
that was something that was justbeing taken away a lot of the
times with veterans that haveexperienced, you know, traumatic
events like TBI, ptsd, likedepression, anxiety, even sleep
and stuff like there's a lot ofthese translational outcomes
coming out of you know yoga andhow a lot of those skills really
help with those core emotionregulation pieces.
(28:39):
And you know being able toreally function throughout daily
life.
So you know being able toreally function throughout daily
life.
So you know being able to dothat just even on a like 30
minutes to an hour with aveteran on the mat right, like
they're hopefully taking thoseskills and kind of moving them
on and finding a way to makethem relevant.
Scott McLean (28:57):
Right, Real quick.
You mentioned you're involvedwith animal therapy.
Lindsey Hildebrand (29:01):
Yep, so one of the.
I see another episode, I seeanother episode.
Everybody's going to get sick ofme at some point, like, yeah,
so I've worked a lot with canineresearch, in particular with
(29:25):
veterans and active duty servicemembers.
So I'm going to give a shout tomy research mentor, james
Whitworth, who is unfortunatelyretiring.
Great on him.
I'm very sad to see him go, buthe's done so much for this
field.
But he was like one of thereally great pioneers in
establishing the efficacy ofcanine and animal assisted
(29:48):
therapy for veterans inparticular.
So he's run some of the fewlike randomized trials and
controlled trials for likeequine therapy and canine
therapy.
So been a part of his researchteam and I decided I was like,
wow, I love this research.
I see, you know, I've gotten tosee the difference it makes with
(30:10):
different subpopulations forveterans that have PTSD related
to military sexual trauma tocombat exposure, and so in my
work, moving forward as an MSW,I'll be pairing with a animal
assisted therapy clinic, and sowe particularly specialize in
(30:31):
animal assisted therapy, canine,equine.
We also have cats, birds,whatever veteran.
We primarily work with veteransand first responders, so that's
animal assisted therapy of thetriangle.
If anybody's located in northcarolina, so we're in and around
the research triangle, but itwas set up by dr christina
strayer, and so we have apassion for working with
(30:54):
veterans in particular withthese means, because we've seen
the the difference it makeswe're definitely going to talk
again about that, because that'sextremely interesting.
Yes, we have two in the queue.
Scott McLean (31:06):
Yes, we do so.
Another, another question,Lindsay, and we're going to get
back to the yoga.
Where do you find time for allof this?
When do you sleep?
She's a very busy woman.
We've come to that conclusion.
Lindsey Hildebrand (31:25):
I just make a lot of time.
I don't know, like it neverseems.
I think this is for everybody,but like there's never enough
time in the day, like I don'tknow.
Scott McLean (31:36):
I don't know how.
Lindsey Hildebrand (31:37):
I get as much as I do done, because for
me it's like it never feels like.
I get enough done, but I do alot you love research.
Scott McLean (31:45):
I think that's pretty obvious.
Lindsey Hildebrand (31:47):
I love clinical work and stuff like I.
I love working with the veteranpopulation in the non-profit
space, like it's just like Ijust think it's such a I think
for me it's just it's fun, so Idon't really view it as yeah.
Scott McLean (32:01):
Well, on behalf of all veterans, I thank you
because we need more people likeyou that want to be involved
and that are passionate, and thepeople that do get into this.
All these know they arepassionate about what they do.
It's just we need more.
Like the veterans need more.
There's always room for more.
How did you get involved withthe veteran yoga?
(32:24):
How did that happen?
Lindsey Hildebrand (32:26):
Yeah, I was down in Tucson at the time.
I was recently transitioned outof the military and I had
taught active duty servicemembers throughout my time while
I was serving in the army.
So I taught on deployment I,you know, I taught active duty
brigades over at Fort Campbelland was, you know, moving away
(32:48):
from the nonprofit I did workfor over there and I was like
you know, this sucks I, you know, I really love being in this
space, like I see the value init.
Like do you know of anybodythat might be wanting like a
volunteer yoga teacher forveterans?
And she was like, well, whydon't you consider joining like
Veterans Yoga Project becausethey're nationwide Tucson VA
(33:21):
campus in their holistic healthdepartment.
And so I got to partner with anamazing PTA named Dave and he
was extremely gracious and justsetting up every part of the
program.
And so I worked with my regiondirector and after that I got
really involved within theTucson area so I hosted classes
at a private studio I would subfor other teachers.
And so I, you know, even workedwith like ROTC at the time and
(33:45):
really trying to instill a lotof these principles within folks
that were even joining into themilitary and just really trying
to, you know, get the servicesout there for folks and making
it, like I said, accessible foreverybody to get the benefits of
yoga, if that's what they werewanting and stuff.
So, you know, I had a lot ofopportunity to, you know, kind
(34:09):
of reach out to veterans atdifferent spaces.
I got to teach at a brewery,which was always really fun.
And so like it's the most funplace I get to teach.
And they would always give mefree beer after, so definitely
was the best place.
Scott McLean (34:24):
All that workout just goes right down the drain
Pound down a couple of beers.
They paid me in beer.
They were like, since you're avolunteer, we can't pay you for
this, but here's a free beer andI was, I said, sold.
Lindsey Hildebrand (34:36):
I was like that's the best payment that I
could possibly, that I couldpossibly receive as a yoga
teacher, and I got.
Yeah, no, what we got to do interms of Veterans Yoga Project
when I was down there was reallyawesome, because there was just
there was just so many touchpoints that we got to do and
working with the University ofArizona's Student Veterans
(34:57):
Center and being able to teachthem a class as well and stuff.
So I got to do a lot and I, andhopefully some folks, picked up
some stuff along the way.
Scott McLean (35:06):
So if somebody wants to, if a veteran is
interested to see if there is aveteran yoga project in their
area, how would they find out?
Lindsey Hildebrand (35:17):
Yes, so you can log on to
veteranYogaProjectorg and so youcan find us on Google and you
can actually search for classesbased on your zip code, city and
location.
If you are finding that youknow you don't have one, that's
at a convenient location for you.
On that website there is also astorehouse of old classes.
(35:39):
If you access our application,veteran Yoga's project Veteran
Yoga's project it's on GooglePlay, apple Store you can see
the list of live classes thatare being held.
There's at least a minimum of,I would say, of like two to
three classes held every singleday on the live platform
nationwide, so you can join fromanywhere at that scheduled time
(36:01):
.
So you know, wherever you're atlike, whether you want to, you
know, attend a live in personand then, or if you want to join
a hybrid modality or you knowwhat is a hybrid modality?
So sometimes when we teach liveclasses, we, um, some folks
can't maybe make it into thephysical location but want to
(36:22):
join that class or, like, havethat community.
I used to teach that sort ofclass.
We actually got people, youknow, zoom in and so so like the
class was going on at the timeand stuff, but we have people
that were actually in sessionand stuff.
But they were also able toconnect with with some folks
that maybe weren't able to makeit in just due to you know, just
timing or just physicallocation and stuff, so it
(36:43):
creates that sense of communityas well and whatnot.
so that that's particularlyhelpful, especially for our
veterans are maybe located inmore rural areas and stuff where
a class might not be available,an affiliated class might not
be available, but also, like,feel free to send us like a
probe and stuff If you're likehaving any questions and want a
(37:05):
class set up in your area.
If we find out about it,sometimes what we'll do is maybe
reach out to the teachers thatare asked like hey, is anybody
willing to teach a class in thisarea or is located in this area
and could set that up as well?
Scott McLean (37:18):
Nice, so you're a nonprofit.
So this is the part of the showwhere I say and the listeners
they know where this is going.
I think nonprofits, the enginethat runs the machine of a
nonprofit, is money.
That's the bottom line, that isthe absolute, and I say this
all the time give them yourmoney, give them your money, and
(37:41):
I say this all the time givethem your money, Give them your
money.
Go to veteransyogaprojectorg ifyou think that their program is
amazing, because it is.
Give them money.
That's what helps this programcontinue on.
There's a nice big red donatebutton right on the page, which
is where it's supposed to be oneof the first things you see.
Lindsey Hildebrand (38:01):
It's the first thing you see.
It's the first thing you see.
It's the easiest button toaccess.
Scott McLean (38:05):
Exactly.
This is a very unique programwhere it is nationwide and which
basically makes it worldwide,because anybody in the world can
find any veteran in the worldcan find this, this program,
this product, the veteran yogaproject, and that's always
amazing.
That's always amazing.
There are a lot of expats thatare out there that listen to
(38:27):
podcasts like this and they'llbe like, hey, you know what, I'm
going to give that a shot.
And they go online.
And so what if it's 12 hoursahead?
In the Philippines, yeah, youcan do yoga at three in the
morning.
Lindsey Hildebrand (38:39):
Anytime, any place.
That's right you don't feellike doing it at three in the
morning, anytime, anyplace,that's right.
If you don't feel like doing,it at three in the morning.
Scott McLean (38:45):
You do have videos that you can access at any time
.
That's right, Anything else.
Did we forget anything?
Do you have any fundraiserscoming up?
Is there anything going on?
Is it just?
Lindsey Hildebrand (38:55):
business as usual right now so be on the
lookout.
What we tend to do around, youknow the Memorial Day and
Veterans Day as you couldimagine being a veteran
organization is that is the timethat we tend to host a lot more
.
That time we really appreciateit.
All of those funds go intoholding up the infrastructure of
(39:16):
our nonprofit.
It does not go to my personalfund.
Scott McLean (39:31):
I've never been paid for yoga in my life.
There you go.
Lindsey Hildebrand (39:37):
But it is going there to make sure that we
can continue hosting classes inlocations and stuff and making
sure that veterans have accessto programming and have access
to, you know, videos and livestreams and in those online
classes.
So any support that y'all arewilling to give during that time
, just you know feel free toattend those classes.
We usually post the schedule onthe website within your
specific area, but you know, ifyou feel like donating ahead of
(39:59):
time, please feel free to clickthat red button right and stuff.
Scott McLean (40:03):
So break out that credit card people give them
your money.
Give them your money.
Come on, I know you got somethere.
I know you got some money therefor yoga.
Come on, give them your money,you're getting a big push.
I don't usually give this bigpush.
Lindsey Hildebrand (40:19):
I appreciate it and I'm sure our CEO,
brianna, would love it if we sawan uptick in that.
But if nothing else, what youcan do, just let people know
that we're out there, right?
Because at the end of the day,what yoga teachers like myself
(40:39):
love to do is show up and toteach and be able to just, you
know, create a community andcreate a space for folks where,
where they can access ourservices, where they can access
yoga.
So if you know anybody thatmight be mildly interested, you
know, pop onto our website, finda class and stuff and just get
involved, because it's out therefor you.
Scott McLea (40:59):
VeteranYaprojectorg .
Well, lindsay, thank you again,thank you again, and I think
I'll be thanking you two moretimes.
Yeah.
The way this is lining up.
But that's fine, that's fine.
You're a very unique guest,you're multifaceted, you have a
lot going on and I want to tapinto all of it.
(41:20):
I want to know, we want to know, lindsay, we want to know.
Lindsey Hildebrand (41:24):
Well, I appreciate you having me on as
much as you do and lookingforward to the next time.
Scott McLean (41:29):
Yes, absolutely so .
Again, stick around, I'm justgoing to do my outro and then
we'll talk a little afterwards.
So well, we built anotherbridge today, second bridge with
Lindsay and a yoga bridge thistime, and it's a beautiful thing
.
Again a veterans yoga projectdot org.
Go check it out, give them yourmoney.
I want to thank willow and palmconstruction, willow and palm
(41:51):
construction, delray beaches,premier builder.
They are a big sponsor of thispodcast.
They're a big, big support forthe one man, one mike foundation
.
They're really good in theveteran space and I would be
remiss if I didn't mention themevery episode, although
sometimes I get carried away, asyou know.
I can talk a lot sometimes, asI'm doing right now.
Anyway, let's move on with theend of this.
(42:13):
Listen to the end.
There's a good public serviceannouncement in relationship to
988 and 211.
It's about 30 seconds long.
It's very informative.
So give it a listen and, as Ialways say, you'll hear me again
next week with a new episode.
Welcome to the podcast.
I'm Scott McLean.
My guest today is LindsayHildebrandt.
Now, if you've heard that namerecently, it was because she did
a previous episode ofrepresenting the Florida Leads
Project, and Florida LeadsProject is doing great work in
the field of suicide prevention,including veterans.
But now she's here in adifferent capacity Veteran Yoga
(00:23):
Project.
How are you doing, Lindsay?
Lindsey Hildebrand (00:30):
I'm doing great.
Thanks for having me once againand stuff.
Scott McLean (00:32):
I'm becoming a veteran in my own right in this
podcast and, as we discussedbefore the episode, there will
be another episode coming upwith Lindsay.
Lindsey Hildebrand (00:40):
I know you just keep allowing me time and
time again and I don't know why.
Scott McLean (00:44):
Yeah, and if you want Lindsay to be a co-host on
this podcast, just let me know.
I think Lindsay's a busy, busywoman.
I don't think she has time.
Lindsey Hildebrand (00:54):
Yeah, I was like I would love to have the
time I really would, and stuffmore like that is another thing
of me biting off more than I canchew as much as I would love to
do it.
Scott McLean (01:05):
I do, I know that feeling.
Yeah, I know you do, yes, yes.
So all right, lindsay, let'sget right into it.
The Veteran Yoga Project.
Give us the origin of it.
Lindsey Hildebrand (01:15):
Yeah, so this was a project that was
started by our founder, drDaniel Libby.
So this is when he was apostdoctoral fellow over in
Connecticut with Yale.
He kind of centered his entireresearch around PTSD treatments
for service members and, youknow, really identified this gap
(01:38):
in care for veterans and whatyoga could really do for
veterans as a supplementaltreatment for PTSD.
So he came up with the ideathat really started Veterans
Yoga Project and saw that youknow there wasn't really
anything widely available interms of yoga programming for
veterans.
(01:59):
Right, it was really up to theveteran to go find a yoga studio
studio and, like you know, yogastudios do cost a lot of money
and stuff.
And so he wanted to come up witha like formalized plan and way
to deliver yoga specificallytailored for veterans.
That got after like mindfulnessand then really using it as a
(02:21):
supplement for, like, reducingPTSD symptomologies.
So that's kind of how theImpetus for Veterans Yoga
Project kind of started and itreally ballooned out from there.
It started in Connecticut andthen it grew into a nationwide
program where we're broken downinto regions and stuff and we've
actually expanded all the wayup into Canada so now we're
(02:42):
technically international,expanded all the way up into
Canada, so now we're technicallyinternational and so.
But it really centered aroundthe idea of delivering, you know
, relevant yoga programming forall veterans.
Now it started with you knowfolks that you know had you know
diagnoses of PTSD that he wasseeing over at the VA hospital.
So we pair with the VA a lot onour projects but also expanding
(03:04):
that out so all veterans canhave a place to access yoga
programming.
Scott McLean (03:10):
So when they started branching out, how did
that?
What was the evolution of that?
Do you know?
Lindsey Hildebrand (03:16):
Yeah.
So they got nonprofit statusback in like 2011.
And so he gained a little bit ofa following, started like
training other trainers andstuff and using that that T2T
model Right and then startedalso delivering what was called
like the mindful resiliencetraining.
So it was really trying to alsotrain other yoga teachers in how
(03:41):
to, you know, perform yogaclasses in a way that was
accessible for veterans andkeeping in mind the specific
considerations that veterans had, you know, in doing a yoga
class and stuff, because the waywe teach is very different than
what you would typically seewithin maybe like more of a
traditional yoga studio, becauseveterans do come in with a lot
(04:04):
of specific considerations,whether that's related to their
PTSD symptomology, potential TBItrauma, and so we incorporated
that into a lot of our teachingsthrough that mindful resilience
.
So all of our yoga teachers gothrough that mindful resilience
training seminar and I thinkfrom there it just kind of
ballooned out because peoplerealized like this was really
(04:26):
important to know Veterans thatwere taking these classes also
caught on.
The yoga community caught onand it really just expanded out
from there Because other VAsstarted hearing about this and
were like, oh, this would bereally great to integrate in
with our you know treatments forPTSD and offering it as a as a
supplement to reduce theirsymptomology.
Scott McLean (04:48):
So the Veteran Yoga Project.
Whenever they branch out likethese people say, hey, I want to
start a kind of a branch of theVeteran Yoga Project.
Lindsey Hildebrand (04:58):
Yeah, so what's really great about
Veterans Yoga Project is likeyou have specific regions but
then within those regions youcan like you can realistically
start and you're listed under alocation.
So if, for example, a veteranwas looking for you know
something located over in likeTucson, arizona, where I used to
(05:18):
teach and stuff like, theycould find me and find where I
taught classes and then connectin with me and attend those
classes and stuff.
So we get listed.
But you essentially can startup specific classes as long as
it's approved by Veterans YogaProject to teach and stuff.
I've taught at veteran ownedbreweries and stuff which always
seem to be very popular forsome reason, don't know why
(05:41):
Brewery and yoga some reasondon't know why, and so but the
most popular class.
we did some beer yoga.
We've done, you know, we pairwith the VA as well A lot of the
time.
So I taught at the Tucson VAcenter with their, with their
physical therapy department,which was a really amazing
(06:01):
experience.
I've taught at, you know, atother places, in private clinics
, in private studios, and so,you know, veterans Yoga Project
really tries to give somelatitude because it's really
more about increasing thataccessibility and you know,
getting a yoga teacher that istrained to.
You know, teach veterans andteach them in an inclusive way
(06:21):
in approaching yoga and likemaking sure that veterans can
connect with that resource, andfor free.
Scott McLean (06:28):
So, as you mentioned earlier, veterans come
with a different say mindset.
Say you have 10 veterans in theroom.
How do you work that?
Lindsey Hildebrand (06:40):
We really try to approach it in a way
where you know we have somegeneral guidelines about like,
hey, how are we as yoga teachersorienting the room like maybe a
better way of kind ofdescribing it is kind of compare
you to a, like, private studiosession.
So a lot of the times you knowthey'll, you know they'll close
(07:01):
the doors, they'll dim thelights, they use scents.
Sometimes that might not begood for a veteran, especially
if that's a particularly youknow they'll close the doors,
they'll dim the lights, they usescents.
Sometimes that might not begood for a veteran, especially
if that's a particularly, youknow, triggering situation.
Or like, you know, we orientthem to where they can see the
exits.
We want to promote safety rightwithin the space that we're in.
Or at least I do a briefupfront and stuff of being like,
(07:26):
hey, let me know of anyinjuries that I should know
about and stuff, because then Ican adapt my class in a way that
you know where I'm teachingeverybody, but then I can give
specific, you know,modifications that will better
suit that veterans like kind oflike functional ability and
functional movement, right.
Because at the end of the day,I think one of the other things
(07:46):
we really have to work throughwith veterans is really breaking
that yoga stereotype about whatit's supposed to look like and
more being like no, this is atime that you know you can
really take time out foryourself to really connect in
with your body and understandwhat and kind of increasing that
level of awareness, right,which really taps into emotional
(08:08):
regulation, mindfulness,autonomic regulation, a lot of
these core, you know,psychological principles that
they're that they might be doingin like therapy and other types
of treatments and stuff that wecan bring to a space where it's
a little bit more accessibleand then also, just, you know,
trying to make sure that we justmeet them where they're at
(08:29):
right.
Because really for me, like ifanybody ever saw me teaching, I
don't look like the world's mostgraceful yoga teacher and stuff
like I'm like, but I'm moreabout like, hey, if we're coming
in to develop and make surethat you can do really good
functional movements, right,like you can do basic things in
life, you can navigate and beable to be like not completely,
(08:51):
you know, discomforting or inpain, you know in throughout
your life and stuff, you knowbarring any like chronic
illnesses or chronic pain andstuff that way for them to, like
I said, approach it inaccessible way.
So there are ways to adapt it.
And that is something that Iwill say I think we do a little
bit more deliberately is reallywatching for those things and
(09:13):
also being able to tailor ourclasses based on you know where
our veterans are coming from andstuff, but also just kind of
understanding what, what thosepotential like traumatic events
that might lead to additionalconsiderations in how we like
kind of set up the environmentof our class.
So we, you know, we, I think wedo a lot more kind of pre
(09:36):
planning up front than a lot ofyoga teachers might do in a
traditional studio setting.
Scott McLean (09:41):
How many sessions does the veteran get?
Are there?
Is there a number as long?
Lindsey Hildebrand (09:46):
as they want to come to class, like they are
invited to come to class, so inyeah, it's, you know, like no
bars, limited and stuff as longas the class is running, they
can come and join for free.
And so, you know, we have ourin-person classes.
Sometimes we'll offer it in ahybrid modality, and then we
(10:06):
also have our online platform,so where they can access live
classes for free, virtually, butthey can also go back and look
at old videos, so they, we canreally meet people across the
spectrum, because sometimes it's, like you know, people have to
work, they have other conflictsand stuff, but they still want
to be able to, you know, attendclass in like a live way or like
(10:31):
they want to see the recordinglater.
We want to give them thoseoptions.
So we kind of offer the fullspectrum of offering those
services for free to the veteranbecause it's you know, I think
it's what's right and but it'salso what?
What benefits the veteran atthe end of the day?
Scott McLean (10:44):
It's a of like how I here comes, my cheap plug, my
cheap plug for my foundation.
That's kind of how the One man,one Mic Foundation operates.
I work that in.
Lindsey Hildebrand (10:56):
It was a great transition.
Scott McLean (10:58):
Yeah, we work with veterans all over the country
and we teach them how to podcast, just like if a veteran wanted
to go on to your website and doa live class.
It's an amazing way to reachliterally the world.
You'll check it out.
One man, one mic foundationorg.
That's my cheap plug.
I'm done.
Lindsey Hildebrand (11:15):
I won't take your time anymore you're not
taking my time at all let me uh,everybody, you should know
about one man, one mic that'sright, there you go.
Scott McLean (11:23):
You just really, you're just making yourself the
best guest ever.
Lindsey Hildebrand (11:29):
I would dispute it, but I'll take your
word.
Scott McLean (11:33):
So how do veterans come into your class?
Are they recommended throughthe VA, or is it word of mouth,
or they just find it?
And what?
How do you handle the stigma ofmen and yoga, which is a thing?
Lindsey Hildebrand (11:51):
Very much is a thing.
So I think a lot of ourveterans do find out about it
through the VA because we dopartner with a lot of our VA
campuses in particular.
So they know it's a servicethat's offered where sometimes
it's hosted is a little bitdifferent.
As I mentioned, I was in kindof more the physical and
(12:11):
holistic therapy department.
That's where I hosted myclasses, that's where they have
the space for me and to do likethe actual physical classes and
in-person classes.
But you know, sometimes we'llactually get to host those
classes on a weekly or bi-weeklybasis through the VA.
Sometimes it's like a referralprocess.
They can find us through thewebsite.
(12:32):
A lot of the times it's word ofmouth, but a lot of the times
it's also us just getting theword out as yoga teachers and
being like, hey, you know,please join us for this class.
Getting onto community forumsand being like, hey, this is a
free class for veterans.
Like, please, pre-register.
I would say a lot of theupfront work is like us making
sure that the word gets outright, Because you know, when I
(12:54):
was teaching at theveteran-owned brewery and stuff,
it was like a completely, youknow, completely separate thing
from the VA.
But a lot of folks heard aboutit from the VA being like, hey,
there's this like great freebeer, yoga class that's with
this nonprofit and stuff and inpartnership with this brewery
and stuff like you should go andwe would like put posters out
(13:16):
and stuff and they wouldadvertise.
I think word of mouth istypically how you get a lot more
buy in, especially in relationto men doing yoga and having
that self stigma.
Once again, I think it comesfrom that place of like yoga
needing to really look a veryspecific way and that it's
(13:38):
something where you have to havea lot of flexibility and you
need to be able to go into thesereally intricate poses and,
like you know, you have to donall the Lululemon gear and stuff
and basically become a walkingadvertisement board.
And I was like and I I'm reallyagainst a lot of that where I'm
like, you know, I'm coming inas your, as a teacher, but I'm
(14:01):
really here as a guide, like Idon't know what it's like to
live in that person's body, inthat individual's body.
So being like you need to adaptthis, however you need to, to
get whatever you need out of thepractice.
And so if I think, inapproaching it in that way, when
being like, hey, this is a wayfor you to like practice good,
(14:22):
like you know stretching, orlike a lot of the times when I,
when I deal with men who aremaybe a little bit hesitant, I
was like think about it as likepost-workout recovery or
advanced recovery, right, likeyou're prepping your body for,
like when you're going to go hita hard workout, right, it's
like making sure that you knowyou're warmed up correctly, like
(14:42):
you have good, you know goodfunctional movement, good
mobility like those are kind ofways to kind of kind of promote
it, where somebody who mightthink it's a little bit too
wooey and stuff because of youknow what they've seen from
other studios and be like no,this is really about getting
your body preps, like tuning in,faring out and developing like
(15:04):
that body awareness, but alsojust making sure that we're
actually like taking care of ourbody so we can do what we need
to do in day to day life.
And approaching in that manner Ithink really helps reduce that
that stigma.
It makes it to where it's notexclusionary.
I think the yoga community inparticular sometimes does a
really bad job of making itinclusive for veterans and
(15:26):
active duty service members inparticular, and so because
they're teaching in a way thatit's like you know, if you're
setting off a bunch of incenseand you're like doing crazy,
crazy poses that like don'treally help folks with, you know
dealing with pain that theymight have from like rucking
running, you know knee pain fromlike jumps and stuff or like
(15:49):
like being able to tie that tothe things that you're doing in
the practice will make it towhere people have a lot less
stigma.
right, you want to connect itwith the way where it's like,
hey, this is like good for lowerback pain, especially for y'all
that you know deal with.
You know putting on a ruckevery day, or like you know
we're, we're in an infantry unitand stuff, and just trying to
(16:11):
tie it and connect it back, Ithink really helps.
So that way people see thevalue in it and it's like oh,
it's not just you know a posefor the sake of doing a pose.
It's like something that'smeant to alleviate discomfort,
is meant to help them likeactually tune in and pay
attention to that, like that'sreally the best that we can do
(16:32):
in in terms of making it anapproachable practice.
Scott McLean (16:37):
So it's interesting we're talking about
this.
It just dawned on me, as youwere telling that, that that
story is so the other day I wasgoing to breakfast and I was
meeting I was meeting mydaughter for breakfast and I
live in Boca Raton.
I go into this plaza where therestaurant is and I see all
these women, like we call it,they call it like Boca babes, I
(17:00):
guess whatever but they're allin there Like there's a yoga
studio popped up, like I'd neverseen it before to be there,
coming in and out, and they'reall fit and they're all
Lululemon doubt, they're allyoga pants doubt, and you know
it's just and and honestly it'sit's a funny story.
But I look, I kind of thoughtabout it.
(17:21):
I go, there's no way I wouldever try to go in there.
Like there's no way I wouldever try to go in there.
You know, okay, as a guy, I knowthe guys that are listening are
going.
I'll go in there, yeah, but foryoga people, for yoga, for
actual yoga, it is kind ofintimidating to hear the yoga
(17:41):
and that's kind of theperception that men have.
I'm sure I speak for a lot ofus With that like that's like
you got to be fit to already doit, because everybody I see
going in and out of this placeis they're all fit, yeah, and
and I would argue like that isreally not, it shouldn't be the
(18:03):
case.
Lindsey Hildebrand (18:04):
Right, where it's like everybody has to
start somewhere, like if you'recoming into a yoga class where
you're already in like perfectshape and stuff, I would argue
you're probably not going to getthat much actually out of the
practice.
Right, like the biggest gainsare made from like smaller
starting points, and really thatmisconception, I think, bars a
lot of people from doing it,because there is this notion of
(18:26):
like I have to be like fit to doyoga, like the most important
practice in yoga is thebreathing aspects and like that
is what they teach us from dayone in like yoga teacher
training.
Where it's like and I reallyconsider this where I literally
have folks that sit in like ourfinal resting pose, like
Shavasana, the entire class, andI forever love those students
(18:51):
because all they're doing isjust sitting there with their
breath in their body and stuff,and for me that is like the
quintessential best yoga thatyou can get.
Right, because you're sittingdown, you're paying attention to
what's going on in your body,you're creating a space where
you can do that and you'repracticing mindfulness, you're
practicing autonomic breathing,like the movement practice, is
(19:12):
really great and a lot of peoplecome in for the physical aspect
of that.
But I would argue that thatbreathing, that autonomic
regulation piece, that thatmindfulness piece are way more
important components of it and Iwould say it's like it is the
core things and like if the onlything you're getting out of
yoga is a physical practice notthat it's wrong I would say
(19:33):
you're actually missing out onthe most important things, which
is like the thing that I tellmost of my veterans who are like
convinced that they can't comein and like do the practice.
I'm like I am good with youjust lying down, like if you're
comfortable, closing your eyesand just breathing.
Like just breathing there,taking time, paying attention to
what's going on and stuff, likethat's the best type of
(19:55):
practice and stuff.
I think that also helps,because I don't know if that's a
bad thing, but like power yogahas kind of become the what
everybody sees, like with yourBoca babes and stuff, that's
probably the type of yoga thatthey were doing.
Scott McLean (20:08):
That's right.
Lindsey Hildebrand (20:16):
And like but and there's nothing wrong with
that, but it's it.
I would say it's not reallylike the.
The point of yoga, like thephysical practice is there to
help tap into those other things, like it's a bridge to make
sure those other portions happen.
But it's not the only way topractice yoga.
And like those foundationalpillars, with breathing and like
mindfulness and really justlike paying attention, is far,
(20:38):
far more important.
And I would argue the betteryogis are, the ones that can tap
into that, the better studentsand stuff are, you know, the
ones that kind of really payattention to those core pillars.
And at the end of the day, Iwould much rather have a veteran
sit down and do those thingsthan engage in a physical
practice if they're not ready.
Scott McLean (20:58):
So so like that's, let's talk about that.
It's not just the physicalaspect of yoga, it's the mental
aspect of it too.
Now you have veterans coming in, some with, like we said, ptsd,
tbi, which this is way moreimportant than the physical
aspect of it.
Now you know, healthy body,healthy mind, they say.
I question that sometimes.
Lindsey Hildebrand (21:20):
I don't know if that's always the case right
, it's a dual, it's a dualrelationship, right, and you
know, we know this from theresearch, right, it's why you
know chronic pain in particularis so debilitating to mental
health and stuff into physicalhealth and like it, and we're
really encouraging to, topractice both and that's one of
(21:42):
the great things about yoga isyou have the capability to
practice both and there'sdifferent types of yoga for for
different types of folks andwhat they need, right.
Like you can do a power yogaclass if you need something,
where it's like it's keepingyour attention, you're hitting
it really quick, you're doinglike one breath for movement and
stuff.
But you know, sometimes that'smaybe not what you actually need
(22:03):
or what that veteran actuallyneeds, right, maybe they need
like a slower class wherethey're stretching, they're
sitting longer and poses andstuff.
And but they're, you know,they're getting deeper into
those stretches, they're workinga little bit more into that,
into those muscles, like that'sa little bit, that might be what
that day calls for, what thatveteran needs and the and the
(22:23):
teacher has to really be able tokind of like tune in and adapt
to that and but it's likerealistically we should be
taking care of both as yogateachers, but it's also
something that we have to buildfor the folks that are coming
into these classes to reallymake sure that they tune into,
cause I think with you know,with military and veterans, one
(22:47):
of the hardest things to reallyget them to do is to listen, to
listen to what they actuallyneed in that moment.
Because what are you conditionedto do in the military?
A lot of the times is to pushand push and push and kind of
tune out those and tune outthose signals.
And what we're asking to do isthe opposite of that.
(23:10):
Right, where we're like we needyou to really tune in and
listen and understand whenyou're it's like to kind of push
a healthy edge or when you needto take it back and stuff for
the sake of your body, for thesake of, like, your mental
health and stuff, and I thinkyoga is a really great conduit
where that can happen.
And when we get that balanceright, we're taking care of
(23:33):
their physical body, so that waythey can take care of their
mind, but they're using those,those mental skills, to be able
to tap into that physical spacetoo.
Scott McLean (23:47):
Is it a sort of?
Lindsey Hildebrand (23:47):
meditation involved with yoga.
Yeah, sometimes with yoga thereis a little bit of a I would
say, a misnomer about likemeditation has to happen in yoga
.
About like meditation has tohappen in yoga.
It's the um, and I specifically, you know, speak to more of
(24:08):
like what we try to get after inveterans yoga project, which is
really more of the mindfulnesspiece.
So it's kind of like the whole.
Like you know, a square is arectangle, but a rectangle is in
a square right or vice versa.
I might've screwed that up.
Scott McLean (24:19):
I think, I think the listeners get it.
Lindsey Hildebrand (24:23):
Mindfulness can be a meditation, but not all
meditations are mindfulness.
Mindfulness is in.
John Cobbetson, who was kind ofthe founder of
mindfulness-based stressreduction, would define it as
like paying attention on purposein the moment, which is
ultimately what you know.
When you're doing a yoga class,what are you doing?
You're paying attention to yourbody, you're using
(24:45):
proprioception, like where yourbody is at in time and space and
being able to coordinatemovements, like you're
inherently paying attentionright, because otherwise you'd
be like falling over constantlyand hurting yourself, which is
not what we want, and so.
But there are some meditationaspects if it's comfortable to
the veteran, sometimes it's notright, sometimes it's not
something some people feelcomfortable with.
(25:06):
So what I usually do for likemeditation is like we don't.
Some people practice mantras andstuff, and if that's okay for
them, that's great, and so Ireally try to focus on more of
the mindfulness based stressreduction aspects.
So we go through, likeprogressive muscle relaxation or
a body scan or like deliberatebreathing exercises, to where
(25:27):
that person is paying attentionto what is going on within their
body and using kind of liketheir top-down processing, their
cognitive you know their, youknow cognitive attention and
control to be able to reallymonitor what is going on and
being able to, like regulatetheir breathing, you know, and
(25:48):
know what's going on with withintheir body, like where they
feel pain or tension or whetherthey don't feel anything at all,
and being able to use that, Ithink, is a little bit more
helpful than maybe what peoplethink in a traditional kind of
like meditation sense for yourkind of gain, this ethereal
feeling and stuff, andtranscending like I would rather
bring it back to that body,make that good mind body
(26:10):
connection, because we knowthat's so important is a huge
predictive outcome.
And in terms of like reduced youknow, symptomology, whether
it's related to PTSD, whetherreduced like somatic symptoms as
well, but also like reducedistress, anxiety, depression.
It's been shown time and timeagain in the research what yoga
(26:33):
can do on that aspect,especially when it incorporates
those mindfulness-based stressreduction strategies.
So while I think meditation istraditionally a part of yoga, it
doesn't necessarily have to be.
Scott McLean (26:47):
So it's more of a grounding.
Lindsey Hildebrand (26:49):
There is a lot of adage to the whole, like
take a breath and so, becausethat's you know, it's tied to
your autonomic nervous system,right, like when we feel anxious
, our heart rate increases, ourpupils dilate, like we get
really that's why we get tunnelvision.
Like, really, you know,learning how to regulate that
through breath work that'soffered in yoga and through
(27:12):
mindfulness practices is, Ithink, a really key component to
that emotion, that higher levelemotion regulation piece.
So when things do feeloverwhelming, you know, in life,
and when we're taking on ourdaily stressors, like our
veterans already have the toolsto deal with that because
they're practicing it on theirmat, they're practicing it in a
(27:32):
space that feels safe.
So when they're in a space thatis, you know, an environment
that feels distressing oruncomfortable and stuff, they
already have those toolsavailable to them to where
they're transferring it, youknow, not just on the mat, right
, but the whole point is to takethose skills off the mat and
into daily life right Like thatis the like.
(27:54):
Yoga is a tool to be able to doit Right and like, and I think
that's really where Dr Libby sawlike the value in it is being
like you know how these veteransare really transitioning a lot
of the skills that we wereteaching to.
You know normal everyday lifeso that way they could have like
social, occupational and justdaily well being and so because
(28:16):
that was something that was justbeing taken away a lot of the
times with veterans that haveexperienced, you know, traumatic
events like TBI, ptsd, likedepression, anxiety, even sleep
and stuff like there's a lot ofthese translational outcomes
coming out of you know yoga andhow a lot of those skills really
help with those core emotionregulation pieces.
(28:39):
And you know being able toreally function throughout daily
life.
So you know being able toreally function throughout daily
life.
So you know being able to dothat just even on a like 30
minutes to an hour with aveteran on the mat right, like
they're hopefully taking thoseskills and kind of moving them
on and finding a way to makethem relevant.
Scott McLean (28:57):
Right, Real quick.
You mentioned you're involvedwith animal therapy.
Lindsey Hildebrand (29:01):
Yep, so one of the.
I see another episode, I seeanother episode.
Everybody's going to get sick ofme at some point, like, yeah,
so I've worked a lot with canineresearch, in particular with
(29:25):
veterans and active duty servicemembers.
So I'm going to give a shout tomy research mentor, james
Whitworth, who is unfortunatelyretiring.
Great on him.
I'm very sad to see him go, buthe's done so much for this
field.
But he was like one of thereally great pioneers in
establishing the efficacy ofcanine and animal assisted
(29:48):
therapy for veterans inparticular.
So he's run some of the fewlike randomized trials and
controlled trials for likeequine therapy and canine
therapy.
So been a part of his researchteam and I decided I was like,
wow, I love this research.
I see, you know, I've gotten tosee the difference it makes with
(30:10):
different subpopulations forveterans that have PTSD related
to military sexual trauma tocombat exposure, and so in my
work, moving forward as an MSW,I'll be pairing with a animal
assisted therapy clinic, and sowe particularly specialize in
(30:31):
animal assisted therapy, canine,equine.
We also have cats, birds,whatever veteran.
We primarily work with veteransand first responders, so that's
animal assisted therapy of thetriangle.
If anybody's located in northcarolina, so we're in and around
the research triangle, but itwas set up by dr christina
strayer, and so we have apassion for working with
(30:54):
veterans in particular withthese means, because we've seen
the the difference it makeswe're definitely going to talk
again about that, because that'sextremely interesting.
Yes, we have two in the queue.
Scott McLean (31:06):
Yes, we do so.
Another, another question,Lindsay, and we're going to get
back to the yoga.
Where do you find time for allof this?
When do you sleep?
She's a very busy woman.
We've come to that conclusion.
Lindsey Hildebrand (31:25):
I just make a lot of time.
I don't know, like it neverseems.
I think this is for everybody,but like there's never enough
time in the day, like I don'tknow.
Scott McLean (31:36):
I don't know how.
Lindsey Hildebrand (31:37):
I get as much as I do done, because for
me it's like it never feels like.
I get enough done, but I do alot you love research.
Scott McLean (31:45):
I think that's pretty obvious.
Lindsey Hildebrand (31:47):
I love clinical work and stuff like I.
I love working with the veteranpopulation in the non-profit
space, like it's just like Ijust think it's such a I think
for me it's just it's fun, so Idon't really view it as yeah.
Scott McLean (32:01):
Well, on behalf of all veterans, I thank you
because we need more people likeyou that want to be involved
and that are passionate, and thepeople that do get into this.
All these know they arepassionate about what they do.
It's just we need more.
Like the veterans need more.
There's always room for more.
How did you get involved withthe veteran yoga?
(32:24):
How did that happen?
Lindsey Hildebrand (32:26):
Yeah, I was down in Tucson at the time.
I was recently transitioned outof the military and I had
taught active duty servicemembers throughout my time while
I was serving in the army.
So I taught on deployment I,you know, I taught active duty
brigades over at Fort Campbelland was, you know, moving away
(32:48):
from the nonprofit I did workfor over there and I was like
you know, this sucks I, you know, I really love being in this
space, like I see the value init.
Like do you know of anybodythat might be wanting like a
volunteer yoga teacher forveterans?
And she was like, well, whydon't you consider joining like
Veterans Yoga Project becausethey're nationwide Tucson VA
(33:21):
campus in their holistic healthdepartment.
And so I got to partner with anamazing PTA named Dave and he
was extremely gracious and justsetting up every part of the
program.
And so I worked with my regiondirector and after that I got
really involved within theTucson area so I hosted classes
at a private studio I would subfor other teachers.
And so I, you know, even workedwith like ROTC at the time and
(33:45):
really trying to instill a lotof these principles within folks
that were even joining into themilitary and just really trying
to, you know, get the servicesout there for folks and making
it, like I said, accessible foreverybody to get the benefits of
yoga, if that's what they werewanting and stuff.
So, you know, I had a lot ofopportunity to, you know, kind
(34:09):
of reach out to veterans atdifferent spaces.
I got to teach at a brewery,which was always really fun.
And so like it's the most funplace I get to teach.
And they would always give mefree beer after, so definitely
was the best place.
Scott McLean (34:24):
All that workout just goes right down the drain
Pound down a couple of beers.
They paid me in beer.
They were like, since you're avolunteer, we can't pay you for
this, but here's a free beer andI was, I said, sold.
Lindsey Hildebrand (34:36):
I was like that's the best payment that I
could possibly, that I couldpossibly receive as a yoga
teacher, and I got.
Yeah, no, what we got to do interms of Veterans Yoga Project
when I was down there was reallyawesome, because there was just
there was just so many touchpoints that we got to do and
working with the University ofArizona's Student Veterans
(34:57):
Center and being able to teachthem a class as well and stuff.
So I got to do a lot and I, andhopefully some folks, picked up
some stuff along the way.
Scott McLean (35:06):
So if somebody wants to, if a veteran is
interested to see if there is aveteran yoga project in their
area, how would they find out?
Lindsey Hildebrand (35:17):
Yes, so you can log on to
veteranYogaProjectorg and so youcan find us on Google and you
can actually search for classesbased on your zip code, city and
location.
If you are finding that youknow you don't have one, that's
at a convenient location for you.
On that website there is also astorehouse of old classes.
(35:39):
If you access our application,veteran Yoga's project Veteran
Yoga's project it's on GooglePlay, apple Store you can see
the list of live classes thatare being held.
There's at least a minimum of,I would say, of like two to
three classes held every singleday on the live platform
nationwide, so you can join fromanywhere at that scheduled time
(36:01):
.
So you know, wherever you're atlike, whether you want to, you
know, attend a live in personand then, or if you want to join
a hybrid modality or you knowwhat is a hybrid modality?
So sometimes when we teach liveclasses, we, um, some folks
can't maybe make it into thephysical location but want to
(36:22):
join that class or, like, havethat community.
I used to teach that sort ofclass.
We actually got people, youknow, zoom in and so so like the
class was going on at the timeand stuff, but we have people
that were actually in sessionand stuff.
But they were also able toconnect with with some folks
that maybe weren't able to makeit in just due to you know, just
timing or just physicallocation and stuff, so it
(36:43):
creates that sense of communityas well and whatnot.
so that that's particularlyhelpful, especially for our
veterans are maybe located inmore rural areas and stuff where
a class might not be available,an affiliated class might not
be available, but also, like,feel free to send us like a
probe and stuff If you're likehaving any questions and want a
(37:05):
class set up in your area.
If we find out about it,sometimes what we'll do is maybe
reach out to the teachers thatare asked like hey, is anybody
willing to teach a class in thisarea or is located in this area
and could set that up as well?
Scott McLean (37:18):
Nice, so you're a nonprofit.
So this is the part of the showwhere I say and the listeners
they know where this is going.
I think nonprofits, the enginethat runs the machine of a
nonprofit, is money.
That's the bottom line, that isthe absolute, and I say this
all the time give them yourmoney, give them your money, and
(37:41):
I say this all the time givethem your money, Give them your
money.
Go to veteransyogaprojectorg ifyou think that their program is
amazing, because it is.
Give them money.
That's what helps this programcontinue on.
There's a nice big red donatebutton right on the page, which
is where it's supposed to be oneof the first things you see.
Lindsey Hildebrand (38:01):
It's the first thing you see.
It's the first thing you see.
It's the easiest button toaccess.
Scott McLean (38:05):
Exactly.
This is a very unique programwhere it is nationwide and which
basically makes it worldwide,because anybody in the world can
find any veteran in the worldcan find this, this program,
this product, the veteran yogaproject, and that's always
amazing.
That's always amazing.
There are a lot of expats thatare out there that listen to
(38:27):
podcasts like this and they'llbe like, hey, you know what, I'm
going to give that a shot.
And they go online.
And so what if it's 12 hoursahead?
In the Philippines, yeah, youcan do yoga at three in the
morning.
Lindsey Hildebrand (38:39):
Anytime, any place.
That's right you don't feellike doing it at three in the
morning, anytime, anyplace,that's right.
If you don't feel like doing,it at three in the morning.
Scott McLean (38:45):
You do have videos that you can access at any time
.
That's right, Anything else.
Did we forget anything?
Do you have any fundraiserscoming up?
Is there anything going on?
Is it just?
Lindsey Hildebrand (38:55):
business as usual right now so be on the
lookout.
What we tend to do around, youknow the Memorial Day and
Veterans Day as you couldimagine being a veteran
organization is that is the timethat we tend to host a lot more
.
That time we really appreciateit.
All of those funds go intoholding up the infrastructure of
(39:16):
our nonprofit.
It does not go to my personalfund.
Scott McLean (39:31):
I've never been paid for yoga in my life.
There you go.
Lindsey Hildebrand (39:37):
But it is going there to make sure that we
can continue hosting classes inlocations and stuff and making
sure that veterans have accessto programming and have access
to, you know, videos and livestreams and in those online
classes.
So any support that y'all arewilling to give during that time
, just you know feel free toattend those classes.
We usually post the schedule onthe website within your
specific area, but you know, ifyou feel like donating ahead of
(39:59):
time, please feel free to clickthat red button right and stuff.
Scott McLean (40:03):
So break out that credit card people give them
your money.
Give them your money.
Come on, I know you got somethere.
I know you got some money therefor yoga.
Come on, give them your money,you're getting a big push.
I don't usually give this bigpush.
Lindsey Hildebrand (40:19):
I appreciate it and I'm sure our CEO,
brianna, would love it if we sawan uptick in that.
But if nothing else, what youcan do, just let people know
that we're out there, right?
Because at the end of the day,what yoga teachers like myself
(40:39):
love to do is show up and toteach and be able to just, you
know, create a community andcreate a space for folks where,
where they can access ourservices, where they can access
yoga.
So if you know anybody thatmight be mildly interested, you
know, pop onto our website, finda class and stuff and just get
involved, because it's out therefor you.
Scott McLea (40:59):
VeteranYaprojectorg .
Well, lindsay, thank you again,thank you again, and I think
I'll be thanking you two moretimes.
Yeah.
The way this is lining up.
But that's fine, that's fine.
You're a very unique guest,you're multifaceted, you have a
lot going on and I want to tapinto all of it.
(41:20):
I want to know, we want to know, lindsay, we want to know.
Lindsey Hildebrand (41:24):
Well, I appreciate you having me on as
much as you do and lookingforward to the next time.
Scott McLean (41:29):
Yes, absolutely so .
Again, stick around, I'm justgoing to do my outro and then
we'll talk a little afterwards.
So well, we built anotherbridge today, second bridge with
Lindsay and a yoga bridge thistime, and it's a beautiful thing
.
Again a veterans yoga projectdot org.
Go check it out, give them yourmoney.
I want to thank willow and palmconstruction, willow and palm
(41:51):
construction, delray beaches,premier builder.
They are a big sponsor of thispodcast.
They're a big, big support forthe one man, one mike foundation
.
They're really good in theveteran space and I would be
remiss if I didn't mention themevery episode, although
sometimes I get carried away, asyou know.
I can talk a lot sometimes, asI'm doing right now.
Anyway, let's move on with theend of this.
(42:13):
Listen to the end.
There's a good public serviceannouncement in relationship to
988 and 211.
It's about 30 seconds long.
It's very informative.
So give it a listen and, as Ialways say, you'll hear me again
next week with a new episode.
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