September 18, 2025 • 27 mins
The North Northumberland Village Halls Consortium demonstrates how 80 village halls work together to share knowledge, resources, and support across their rural communities. Their volunteer-led network provides crucial services like affordable PAT testing and trusted contractor recommendations, creating a sustainable model for village hall collaboration that has thrived for over 20 years.
• Nearly 80 village halls in North Northumberland working as a self-help group for over 20 years
• Consortium recently received funding through the Benefact Group's "Closer to You" initiative
• Members collectively manage approximately £22 million worth of property assets
• Shared contractor database helps halls find reliable service providers
• Volunteer-run PAT testing service keeps costs affordable (about £15 for small halls)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Marc Smith (00:01):
Hi, Marc Smith and welcome to the Village Halls
podcast sponsored by AlliedWestminster, the UK's largest
specialist provider of villagehall insurance and the home of
Village Guard.
Before we begin, a quickreminder that entries are now
open for the Village HallsInspiration Awards 2025,
celebrating the incredible workhappening in village community
(00:24):
and church halls across thecountry.
You can apply between the 1stof May and the 30th of September
, so do consider putting yourhall forward.
In this episode, we're talkingabout the North Northumberland
Village Halls Consortium, whichGavin Mitchell from Ally
Westminster nominated for agrant from the Benefact Group.
We had a fantastic conversationabout how nearly 80 village
(00:45):
halls in Northumberland areworking together, the challenges
they face and the creative waysthey're supporting one another
and their wider communities.
It's a really inspiring storyand I'm excited to share it with
you now.
So welcome to our podcast.
Today we have three wonderfulreturning guests, so by this
point they will be seasoned pros.
Firstly, we have threewonderful returning guests, so
by this point they will beseasoned pros.
Firstly, we have Chris Withers,schemes and Partnership
(01:08):
Director for Ecclesiastical partof the Benefact Group.
Welcome to the podcast.
Chris Withers (01:13):
Thank you, Marc.
Marc Smith (01:14):
Next we have Gavin Mitchell, who you may already
know as the MD of AlliedWestminster.
Welcome back to the podcast,gavin.
Hello Marc, again, nice to beback.
And we have George Curtis, whois representing the North
Northumberland Village HallsConsortium.
George, welcome to the podcastonce again.
Thank you very much, Marc.
Now, obviously you have been onthe podcast before back in 2021
(01:39):
, but it would be great if youcould briefly tell us a little
bit about the consortium and therole that plays within your
wider community.
George Courtice (01:48):
Sure, we were set up about 20 years ago and
it's really best described as aself-help group of village halls
.
It now numbers nearly 80village halls and community
buildings, I might add, in thenorth of Northumberland and,
unlike many, most counties,we've actually got two consortia
(02:13):
within Northumberland one inthe west and we're in the north,
and the north now, as Imentioned, numbers over 80.
And, like the overwhelmingnumber of our members, halls,
halls, it's entirely theconsortium, that is, it's
entirely run by volunteers.
Marc Smith (02:33):
That's fantastic, so I will.
For anyone new listeners here,I will put a link to the
previous podcast on the website.
So, gavin, it was yourself thatput the nomination forward to
the Closer to you fundinginitiative.
So what was it about yourselfthat put the nomination forward
to the Closer to you fundinginitiative?
So what was it about them thatmade you so determined to fight
for their inclusion?
Gavin Mitchell (02:51):
I think because we have known I mean, I've known
George for many years now.
We've met a few times and Iknow the great work that the
consortia do and, as George says, it's around 80 halls and I
think it's basically acollective of about 20, 22
(03:12):
million pounds worth of propertyassets, something of that order
.
And I think what, what reallyappealed to us is essentially
that the network works on thebasis of sharing insights and
provides information and supportand guidance in terms of energy
governance, fundraising and soon and so forth.
(03:35):
And village halls.
That's so important for villagehalls to be able to have that
support, have that backup, havethat guidance, because village
halls every penny counts forvillage halls right across the
country.
They all share the sameproblems and the great thing
about the consortia is that theyessentially run like a thread
(03:59):
through all the needles of thevillage halls, keeping, as far
as we can see, things togetherand in good order, and I think
it's commendable work that theydo.
Marc Smith (04:11):
Absolutely yeah.
So, chris, the Closer to youfunding initiative can you
explain what that is and how doother village halls put
themselves forward?
Chris Withers (04:23):
Yeah, sure.
So Ecclesiastical is probablypart of the Benefact group and
all of our available profits aregiven back to communities, so
any of your listeners can goonline and search for Movement
for Good throughout the courseof the year, and Ecclesiastical
and Benefact will be giving away£1,000 grants throughout the
(04:44):
course of the year.
And Ecclesiastical and Benefactwill be given away £1,000
grants throughout the course ofthe year, and there's also four
special draws in the year forlarger amounts too.
So that's available throughoutthe year to anyone.
But in addition, ecclesiasticalidentifies a number of our key,
most important brokers who weprovide a closer to you grant to
(05:07):
, in which those brokers thennominate a charity that is
important to them, and and itwas through that that Gavin
nominated George- what was itthat convinced you about the
North Northumberland VillageHalls Consortium case to award
the funding?
(05:27):
The easy answer to that is Gavin.
He put a very robust case to usin terms of that and really it
(05:49):
is all about the broker.
Deciding which charity or firmis is um important to them and
their business and with whatI've just heard there from from
george, I can exactly see why.
Why gavin?
Marc Smith (05:54):
chose him.
Yeah, and I will put a link tothe podcast that we did before,
chris, about the the funding,but it would be good to remind
people how do you nominatevillage halls for this type of
funding?
Chris Withers (06:08):
yeah, so, um, anybody can nominate themselves.
So anybody that's listening nowcan can nominate their village
hall as a recipient.
And then what we wouldencourage you to do is to
increase the number ofnominations, because the more
nominations that come through,the greater your chance of
success.
So, on the same website whereyou would nominate, you would
(06:32):
find resources on there whereyou can produce a poster.
So the village hall could printoff a poster, put it into their
building and encourage attendeesto the hall to also nominate.
So yeah, movement for Good.
If you search that into Google,any of the various search
(06:55):
engines, you will find us.
Marc Smith (06:57):
Excellent, and I will add a link into the show
notes as well.
So, george, what was thereaction to receiving the
funding notes there as well?
So, George what was thereaction to receiving the
funding?
George Courtice (07:04):
Well, to be honest, initially I took one
look at the initial proposal andsaid this is clearly a scam.
We never traditionally solicitmoney from outside organizations
, mainly because we don't wantto compete directly with our
(07:26):
members for the same fundingpots, and so we've been very
proud to be independent andindependent.
Our income is sufficient forour needs, and if it's not, then
we cut our cloth.
So when we got this we thoughtwhat?
And there was no direct linkinto allied westminster, so we
(07:47):
didn't know who proposed thisand everything.
But after a couple of hours ofsearching around I was delighted
to to be able to confirm to mycolleagues that this wasn't a
scam.
But I did send it off toeveryone the committee, that is,
the small committee we have torun the consortium and they all
agreed with me that it had allthe makings of the scam on it,
(08:08):
particularly as it only wantedour account details, and that
was a real giveaway to ussuspicious folk.
But so we were absolutelydelighted when we realised that
it was entirely legit, and we'restill in the throes of working
out given that this was such asurprise working out how best to
(08:32):
spend the money, and we'retalking to our members as well.
But I suspect there'll be twomain areas where we'll spend it
um, and one is in relation toimproved training, which is
getting quite costly.
Uh, we're very keen to do itface to face rather than online,
because we want it to be veryspecific to the needs of village
(08:55):
halls and the online stufftends to be much more generic,
and or improve our web presence,because undoubtedly, our
website is the main source ofinformation for most of our
members, together with regularemails through MailChimp from us
.
Gavin Mitchell (09:14):
yes, yeah, I think it's.
If you don't mind me saying,Marc, I think it's not typical
of all of our communications.
I think what happened to you,george?
I think the issue began withthe fact that when we nominated
you, you were falling short ofregistered charity status.
(09:36):
You were falling short ofregistered charity status, which
I think was the strict rule forour nomination, and we got our
shoulder behind that and pushedthe case very heavily.
It took a little bit of doingand I think Benefact managed to
change the rules slightly andthey accepted, after a bit of
due diligence, the good workthat you were doing and went
(09:59):
through all of your articles andso on and so forth and came to
a positive conclusion.
I think, before they actuallylet us know, we could then let
you know, so I think the newsgot out faster than we expected,
to be honest, All right, well,thank you very much for that,
(10:20):
gavin.
George Courtice (10:21):
It's a pleasure .
And now, because of thisincrease, we're now duty-bound
to register with the CharityCommission, because we're now
above their threshold, theirminimum threshold, below which
they're not interested.
Gavin Mitchell (10:36):
Well, we haven't given you any problems because
of that.
George Courtice (10:41):
Any dealings at that level with the Charity
Commission is almost bound to bea problem.
Chris Withers (10:47):
But yes, we're working on it.
As the insurance companyrepresentative on the call.
I am impressed with your umrisk management and cyber
protection.
There, george, and your, your,uh, the diligence that you
follow in terms of making surethat this was something genuine.
But your, your reaction is um,it's perhaps not unusual to the
(11:12):
whole movement.
For good, it's such anincredibly simple process and
you know this whole idea thatyou nominate, and and other
people nominate and you win athousand pounds.
Um, in the normal case, peoplethink it's a trick, they think
it's, they think there's a catch, they think that we're going to
(11:32):
try and sell them something.
But, but it is.
The purpose of the BenefactTrust, is the grant-giving
charity that owns us, and whatwe've tried to do is make it as
simple as possible forbeneficiaries to receive funds.
But, yeah, the assumption thatthere might be a catch is not a
(11:57):
bad one from a risk managementperspective as an insurance
person.
Gavin Mitchell (12:01):
I think it's also worth saying, chris, that
George isn't a client of AlliedWestminster, nor indeed are many
of his village halls.
A lot of your village hallswill be clients of Allied
Westminster, insured through us,but um, it's a living level
playing field essentially forfor um, for those people being
(12:23):
nominated it, it doesn't reallymatter who they're insured with.
I mean, village halls arevillage halls and this is
essentially a, an award thatgoes out to the village hall
community, if you like, notdirectly, but certainly as a
result of the good work thatgeorge and the consortia are are
doing.
So it's um.
It's certainly not a customercentric um award by any stretch
(12:46):
of the imagination excellent.
Marc Smith (12:49):
Well, if we can go back to the original podcast
there.
So I if that was in 2021 andyou mentioned that there were a
few of those have tried tocreate what you have done, but
there wasn't too much success.
So that was four years ago andI I think it's still the case.
I had a search last week and itdoes seem to be a northeast
(13:10):
thing here, so I don't know whatyou're doing there, but why,
what is it you did that made itsuch a success?
George Courtice (13:21):
Well, we were very lucky to have a rural
community council based inNorthumberland.
That was very active terms ofthe glory days of the the
noughties, when infrastructuresupport for the voluntary sector
was quite substantial andcentral government were funding
(13:45):
much of it.
And I think they realized thatthis was going to end and
therefore any self-help groupwould be independent of that
risk and that's why theyencouraged village halls to get
together back in about 2006 toset up a consortium, which they
(14:05):
helped us do.
So that was one of the reasons.
But you're right, I'm alwaysamazed that it hasn't been
replicated.
There is a network in Teesdale,but apart from that, and of
course there's the West WestNorthampton Community Buildings
(14:27):
Consortium, but apart from thatI haven't come across it.
But I could well have done.
But I think ACRE would havetold us if there was a
burgeoning of differentconsortia up and down the
country.
I mean, I am inundated withrequests for information across
(14:49):
a whole range of differentissues and of course that's
partly because trustees change,retire and new ones come in and
aren't aren't so well informedand want to be well informed,
and so it's everything from, youknow, rate relief to licenses,
to bouncy castles and, of course, importantly, funding.
Marc Smith (15:10):
Yeah, that's amazing actually.
I mean, obviously you don'thave to be a body to do some of
the things that you've done,because I was on your website
and the list of contractors thatyou have on there.
I think even just like a singlevillage hall on its own could
(15:30):
be doing things like that.
So did you reach out tocontractors or did they reach
out to you?
How did you go about starting alist?
Because I think that would be abenefit even without the
consortium.
It would be a benefit tovillage halls having you know,
or areas having a list ofcontractors that are specialised
in village halls.
George Courtice (15:49):
It's interesting, Marc, that you
honed in on that, because Ithink that was a surprise to me.
I remember thinking one of theregular questions was does
anyone know a good electrician,et cetera.
And that's actually common toresidences living in streets and
things on the internet.
Now People are endlessly askingaren't they, they know a good
plumber, et cetera.
(16:09):
And I thought well, someone,this could be something that
would be very easy to puttogether.
Well, someone, this could besomething that would be very
easy to put together.
So I invited all our members tosuggest suppliers across the
(16:31):
whole range of things putting innew toilets, etc.
Kitchens, roofers, everything,electricians.
And I had to be very careful tomake sure that we weren't
advising everyone to use thesepeople yeah, so we had to
protect ourselves there, and wethen published it so that you
can see which halls haverecommended not recommended it,
but suggest that they were happywith it.
And of course, circumstanceschange, the supplies change, so
(16:53):
they need each hall needs tocheck up on on on them, um, but
at least they've they can lookat the hall, they can ring the
hall up or email the hall tofind out, uh, just what they
were like, whether they're stillin business, etc.
Yeah and so, yes, it's slowlygrowing, uh, and I rely on
members to update it.
Marc Smith (17:14):
Yes, yeah, I think think it's a marvellous idea, of
course it's not just theexternal contractors, george.
Gavin Mitchell (17:20):
I mean, one of the things that caught our eye
many years ago that I thoughtwas excellent, which your
consortium is doing, is theportable appliance testing, and
you know you do that from withinwith trained volunteers to keep
the cost down.
George Courtice (17:35):
That is true.
First I was a little nervous ofthis because I didn't want to
undermine the local establishedsuppliers, but I realised that
village halls are spread and sothat we would concentrate
exclusively on village halls,and often we say no to B&Bs who
(17:55):
want us to test their gear.
It has to be village halls orstroke community buildings, uh,
or their or their users, theirmain users.
We do one or two bands whoregularly go to different halls
because they too need to havetheir gear.
Um, perhaps tested, um, butmostly it is village halls and
community buildings, yes, ortheir users.
(18:22):
We are clearly cheaper thangoing to the commercial market,
and the reason we are is mainlybecause we wanted to make sure
that small halls with perhapsfewer than five appliances, who
might be the ones that are atgreatest risk to the public
using kettles, et cetera wouldactually bother to have their
(18:44):
stuff tested, because, after all, it is, when it comes down to
it, a health and safety issue.
And we're pleased to be able tohave done that to subsidise the
smaller ones by charging thebigger ones slightly more.
And that's worked for what?
15 years now?
And is growing, growing,continues to grow, you know, and
(19:08):
is our main, I have to behonest, is our main source of
regular income and it's veryreasonable too.
Gavin Mitchell (19:16):
If I remember correctly, um for for for small
halls with, say, five appliances, it's somewhere in the region
15 pounds, that's right.
But built for large halls withmore than what?
Is it 30, 31 appliances?
George Courtice (19:30):
I think it's a pound pair appliance, so it's,
it's incredibly reasonable yes,yes, yes and but it and it makes
sense for obviously for thehalls, thank goodness, and
that's why it also makes sensefor us, you know, as a
consortium.
You know, that's why it alsomakes sense for us as a
consortium.
It means that we can get around.
We have approximately 10volunteer testers who are all
(19:56):
trained, and between us we'renow doing about 50, 55 different
places.
Marc Smith (20:04):
That's brilliant.
So did you put them on atraining course to do the PAT
testing?
George Courtice (20:09):
It's all done online.
It's an excellent course, theycan do it at their leisure, but
they have to have a test at theend to make sure they're
competent, and it's done throughan organisation that also
supplies our PAT kits, of whichwe have four, and the only
capital cost, the only capitalinvestments the consortium have,
(20:33):
apart from the general wealthof our members and knowledge, is
that are these kits, is thatare these kits, and we probably
have I don't know about £1,200invested in them, and they need
to be replaced occasionally.
Marc Smith (20:53):
Yes, brilliant, but I'm still amazed that there's
not more people doing this ormore village halls doing this,
because doing that really makessense, especially if it's rural,
especially where we are tryingto get people out.
Is is quite a challenge, but ifyou have it as a as a you know,
a local initiative, as part ofa consortium, it does make more,
more sense yes it really doesyes I.
George Courtice (21:18):
I think it's probably a step too far for
traditional infrastructureorganizations that that are
being have been squeezed overthe last decade hugely.
I think very few localauthorities would be funding
people to advise.
Village halls Might be thepeople who could organize this,
but it is quite time consuming,and so I think they would
concentrate on other thingsother than that.
(21:40):
But you're right, right, theycould.
I'm surprised that they haven'tsaid look, we need to replicate
this, and let's start on thebasis of a service that we know
would be desirable, which wouldbe pat testing absolutely well.
Marc Smith (21:57):
The last time you were on the podcast was during
covid, and you did mention thatyou were unsure of the future
post COVID, so we're now luckyto be in that time.
So what is your opinion on thisnow?
Because you are in quite aunique position to see the
bigger picture with all thevillage halls that you work with
(22:18):
.
So has it returned to normal?
Are you seeing more usage ofhalls since then?
George Courtice (22:28):
I think it's varied.
I would be very loathe to arguethat there has been.
Obviously there was a real dropduring COVID.
It has, from my experience thehall that I'm associated with.
It has bounced back and evenimproved, and that's certainly
the case for other halls as well.
(22:48):
But some halls, I suspect, arestill really struggling.
I have to say that Covidprovided for a windfall in
Northumberland to many villagehalls who were on the ball at
the time and we were certainlyadvising them.
The COVID grants were madeavailable and spread over
(23:10):
perhaps an 18-month, two-yearperiod and these grants were
given to halls with, I have tosay, a minimal amount of kind of
control.
So mostly, if you get, you know, if you're lucky to get a
couple of thousand pounds fromsomeone, they are likely to not
(23:34):
unreasonably to ask how youspent it, et cetera, et cetera.
And I as one of the consortiumadvisors was saying to them look
, if you get this money fromyour local authority, okay from
central government, money fromyour local authority via okay,
from central government, but viathe local authority, for
goodness sake, spend it onCOVID-related costs, all the
stuff we had to put up, thesigns, et cetera, et cetera.
(23:54):
And also possibly the reducedincome as a consequence of the
constraints of meeting.
But it became pretty clear veryearly on that no one was going
to be quibbling about this orwanting any information as to
how it was spent.
So a hall in the followinganyway would could have received
(24:16):
well over a thirty thousandpounds during that period, which
for some would be a completewindfall and a surprise.
And so some halls have suddenlyfound that their reserves have
increased.
They've obviously got to spendit on those things that they're
obliged to spend it on, which isimproving the quality of the
(24:37):
hall, etc.
So that is one of theunintended consequences.
Gavin Mitchell (24:41):
I think that some halls are now financially
more secure than they were.
I think I think innorthumberland you were probably
luckier than than many areas,george.
I think it was a bit of apostcode lottery in terms of
getting the funding and I knowthat certainly we ensure halls
the length and the breadth ofthe country and in some areas
(25:05):
they were having real problemsgetting any funding or support
and we had to supply varioustemplate letters and letters you
could send your MP and so onand so forth, because it wasn't
a level playing field in termsof the funding, in terms of the
funding, but you're absolutelyright, in terms of once they did
get funding, there was verylittle scrutiny in terms of how
(25:32):
the money was spent, whichpersonally I think that's fine,
because I think there's no needfor admin, village hall trustees
or adults.
Every penny counts and everypenny will be invested wisely
for the continuity of thevillage hall.
George Courtice (25:46):
Yeah, I mean certainly that was my conclusion
in the end, and I think it wasthe conclusion of the decision
makers that by then there wastalk of money going astray,
invented private companies etcetera, whereas at least with
village halls and the protectionof the charity commission
requirements etc.
(26:06):
They received money was goingto be spent safely.
Gavin Mitchell (26:10):
yes, indeed, indeed yeah, good governance
excellent.
Marc Smith (26:15):
I think that's a podcast for another day, that
one probably go off on atangents, uh, but yeah, well,
thank you.
Thank you very much for allthree of you for coming back on
the podcast to talk about this.
In the past few podcasts I'vefocused a lot on legislation, so
breaking up with these fuelgoods stories is actually it's
fantastic.
So yeah thank you very much allfor your time.
(26:38):
It's really much appreciatedand it's been a joy to chat with
you.
Gavin Mitchell (26:41):
Thank you.
Thank you, Marc.
George Courtice (26:42):
Thank you, Marc , thank you, Thank you, Marc,
thank you all.
Marc Smith (26:45):
Many thanks to our headline sponsor and specialist
village hall insurance provider,Allied Westminster, the home of
Village Guard, for making thispodcast possible, and to online
booking system provider,hallmaster, who also sponsor our
podcast and can be found atHallmaster.
co.
uk.
You've been listening to theVillage Halls podcast, a unique
(27:06):
listening community forBritain's village community and
church halls and anyoneinterested in the vital services
they provide.
Don't forget entries for theVillage Halls Inspiration Awards
2025 are open now until the30th of September, so visit our
website to find out more and getinvolved.
We will be back again soon withanother episode.
(27:27):
For more information, visitthevillagehallspodcast.
com, where you'll also findlinks to our social media pages.
Thanks again for listening inand until next time.
Goodbye for now.
Hi, Marc Smith and welcome to the Village Halls
podcast sponsored by AlliedWestminster, the UK's largest
specialist provider of villagehall insurance and the home of
Village Guard.
Before we begin, a quickreminder that entries are now
open for the Village HallsInspiration Awards 2025,
celebrating the incredible workhappening in village community
(00:24):
and church halls across thecountry.
You can apply between the 1stof May and the 30th of September
, so do consider putting yourhall forward.
In this episode, we're talkingabout the North Northumberland
Village Halls Consortium, whichGavin Mitchell from Ally
Westminster nominated for agrant from the Benefact Group.
We had a fantastic conversationabout how nearly 80 village
(00:45):
halls in Northumberland areworking together, the challenges
they face and the creative waysthey're supporting one another
and their wider communities.
It's a really inspiring storyand I'm excited to share it with
you now.
So welcome to our podcast.
Today we have three wonderfulreturning guests, so by this
point they will be seasoned pros.
Firstly, we have threewonderful returning guests, so
by this point they will beseasoned pros.
Firstly, we have Chris Withers,schemes and Partnership
(01:08):
Director for Ecclesiastical partof the Benefact Group.
Welcome to the podcast.
Chris Withers (01:13):
Thank you, Marc.
Marc Smith (01:14):
Next we have Gavin Mitchell, who you may already
know as the MD of AlliedWestminster.
Welcome back to the podcast,gavin.
Hello Marc, again, nice to beback.
And we have George Curtis, whois representing the North
Northumberland Village HallsConsortium.
George, welcome to the podcastonce again.
Thank you very much, Marc.
Now, obviously you have been onthe podcast before back in 2021
(01:39):
, but it would be great if youcould briefly tell us a little
bit about the consortium and therole that plays within your
wider community.
George Courtice (01:48):
Sure, we were set up about 20 years ago and
it's really best described as aself-help group of village halls
.
It now numbers nearly 80village halls and community
buildings, I might add, in thenorth of Northumberland and,
unlike many, most counties,we've actually got two consortia
(02:13):
within Northumberland one inthe west and we're in the north,
and the north now, as Imentioned, numbers over 80.
And, like the overwhelmingnumber of our members, halls,
halls, it's entirely theconsortium, that is, it's
entirely run by volunteers.
Marc Smith (02:33):
That's fantastic, so I will.
For anyone new listeners here,I will put a link to the
previous podcast on the website.
So, gavin, it was yourself thatput the nomination forward to
the Closer to you fundinginitiative.
So what was it about yourselfthat put the nomination forward
to the Closer to you fundinginitiative?
So what was it about them thatmade you so determined to fight
for their inclusion?
Gavin Mitchell (02:51):
I think because we have known I mean, I've known
George for many years now.
We've met a few times and Iknow the great work that the
consortia do and, as George says, it's around 80 halls and I
think it's basically acollective of about 20, 22
(03:12):
million pounds worth of propertyassets, something of that order
.
And I think what, what reallyappealed to us is essentially
that the network works on thebasis of sharing insights and
provides information and supportand guidance in terms of energy
governance, fundraising and soon and so forth.
(03:35):
And village halls.
That's so important for villagehalls to be able to have that
support, have that backup, havethat guidance, because village
halls every penny counts forvillage halls right across the
country.
They all share the sameproblems and the great thing
about the consortia is that theyessentially run like a thread
(03:59):
through all the needles of thevillage halls, keeping, as far
as we can see, things togetherand in good order, and I think
it's commendable work that theydo.
Marc Smith (04:11):
Absolutely yeah.
So, chris, the Closer to youfunding initiative can you
explain what that is and how doother village halls put
themselves forward?
Chris Withers (04:23):
Yeah, sure.
So Ecclesiastical is probablypart of the Benefact group and
all of our available profits aregiven back to communities, so
any of your listeners can goonline and search for Movement
for Good throughout the courseof the year, and Ecclesiastical
and Benefact will be giving away£1,000 grants throughout the
(04:44):
course of the year.
And Ecclesiastical and Benefactwill be given away £1,000
grants throughout the course ofthe year, and there's also four
special draws in the year forlarger amounts too.
So that's available throughoutthe year to anyone.
But in addition, ecclesiasticalidentifies a number of our key,
most important brokers who weprovide a closer to you grant to
(05:07):
, in which those brokers thennominate a charity that is
important to them, and and itwas through that that Gavin
nominated George- what was itthat convinced you about the
North Northumberland VillageHalls Consortium case to award
the funding?
(05:27):
The easy answer to that is Gavin.
He put a very robust case to usin terms of that and really it
(05:49):
is all about the broker.
Deciding which charity or firmis is um important to them and
their business and with whatI've just heard there from from
george, I can exactly see why.
Why gavin?
Marc Smith (05:54):
chose him.
Yeah, and I will put a link tothe podcast that we did before,
chris, about the the funding,but it would be good to remind
people how do you nominatevillage halls for this type of
funding?
Chris Withers (06:08):
yeah, so, um, anybody can nominate themselves.
So anybody that's listening nowcan can nominate their village
hall as a recipient.
And then what we wouldencourage you to do is to
increase the number ofnominations, because the more
nominations that come through,the greater your chance of
success.
So, on the same website whereyou would nominate, you would
(06:32):
find resources on there whereyou can produce a poster.
So the village hall could printoff a poster, put it into their
building and encourage attendeesto the hall to also nominate.
So yeah, movement for Good.
If you search that into Google,any of the various search
(06:55):
engines, you will find us.
Marc Smith (06:57):
Excellent, and I will add a link into the show
notes as well.
So, george, what was thereaction to receiving the
funding notes there as well?
So, George what was thereaction to receiving the
funding?
George Courtice (07:04):
Well, to be honest, initially I took one
look at the initial proposal andsaid this is clearly a scam.
We never traditionally solicitmoney from outside organizations
, mainly because we don't wantto compete directly with our
(07:26):
members for the same fundingpots, and so we've been very
proud to be independent andindependent.
Our income is sufficient forour needs, and if it's not, then
we cut our cloth.
So when we got this we thoughtwhat?
And there was no direct linkinto allied westminster, so we
(07:47):
didn't know who proposed thisand everything.
But after a couple of hours ofsearching around I was delighted
to to be able to confirm to mycolleagues that this wasn't a
scam.
But I did send it off toeveryone the committee, that is,
the small committee we have torun the consortium and they all
agreed with me that it had allthe makings of the scam on it,
(08:08):
particularly as it only wantedour account details, and that
was a real giveaway to ussuspicious folk.
But so we were absolutelydelighted when we realised that
it was entirely legit, and we'restill in the throes of working
out given that this was such asurprise working out how best to
(08:32):
spend the money, and we'retalking to our members as well.
But I suspect there'll be twomain areas where we'll spend it
um, and one is in relation toimproved training, which is
getting quite costly.
Uh, we're very keen to do itface to face rather than online,
because we want it to be veryspecific to the needs of village
(08:55):
halls and the online stufftends to be much more generic,
and or improve our web presence,because undoubtedly, our
website is the main source ofinformation for most of our
members, together with regularemails through MailChimp from us
.
Gavin Mitchell (09:14):
yes, yeah, I think it's.
If you don't mind me saying,Marc, I think it's not typical
of all of our communications.
I think what happened to you,george?
I think the issue began withthe fact that when we nominated
you, you were falling short ofregistered charity status.
(09:36):
You were falling short ofregistered charity status, which
I think was the strict rule forour nomination, and we got our
shoulder behind that and pushedthe case very heavily.
It took a little bit of doingand I think Benefact managed to
change the rules slightly andthey accepted, after a bit of
due diligence, the good workthat you were doing and went
(09:59):
through all of your articles andso on and so forth and came to
a positive conclusion.
I think, before they actuallylet us know, we could then let
you know, so I think the newsgot out faster than we expected,
to be honest, All right, well,thank you very much for that,
(10:20):
gavin.
George Courtice (10:21):
It's a pleasure .
And now, because of thisincrease, we're now duty-bound
to register with the CharityCommission, because we're now
above their threshold, theirminimum threshold, below which
they're not interested.
Gavin Mitchell (10:36):
Well, we haven't given you any problems because
of that.
George Courtice (10:41):
Any dealings at that level with the Charity
Commission is almost bound to bea problem.
Chris Withers (10:47):
But yes, we're working on it.
As the insurance companyrepresentative on the call.
I am impressed with your umrisk management and cyber
protection.
There, george, and your, your,uh, the diligence that you
follow in terms of making surethat this was something genuine.
But your, your reaction is um,it's perhaps not unusual to the
(11:12):
whole movement.
For good, it's such anincredibly simple process and
you know this whole idea thatyou nominate, and and other
people nominate and you win athousand pounds.
Um, in the normal case, peoplethink it's a trick, they think
it's, they think there's a catch, they think that we're going to
(11:32):
try and sell them something.
But, but it is.
The purpose of the BenefactTrust, is the grant-giving
charity that owns us, and whatwe've tried to do is make it as
simple as possible forbeneficiaries to receive funds.
But, yeah, the assumption thatthere might be a catch is not a
(11:57):
bad one from a risk managementperspective as an insurance
person.
Gavin Mitchell (12:01):
I think it's also worth saying, chris, that
George isn't a client of AlliedWestminster, nor indeed are many
of his village halls.
A lot of your village hallswill be clients of Allied
Westminster, insured through us,but um, it's a living level
playing field essentially forfor um, for those people being
(12:23):
nominated it, it doesn't reallymatter who they're insured with.
I mean, village halls arevillage halls and this is
essentially a, an award thatgoes out to the village hall
community, if you like, notdirectly, but certainly as a
result of the good work thatgeorge and the consortia are are
doing.
So it's um.
It's certainly not a customercentric um award by any stretch
(12:46):
of the imagination excellent.
Marc Smith (12:49):
Well, if we can go back to the original podcast
there.
So I if that was in 2021 andyou mentioned that there were a
few of those have tried tocreate what you have done, but
there wasn't too much success.
So that was four years ago andI I think it's still the case.
I had a search last week and itdoes seem to be a northeast
(13:10):
thing here, so I don't know whatyou're doing there, but why,
what is it you did that made itsuch a success?
George Courtice (13:21):
Well, we were very lucky to have a rural
community council based inNorthumberland.
That was very active terms ofthe glory days of the the
noughties, when infrastructuresupport for the voluntary sector
was quite substantial andcentral government were funding
(13:45):
much of it.
And I think they realized thatthis was going to end and
therefore any self-help groupwould be independent of that
risk and that's why theyencouraged village halls to get
together back in about 2006 toset up a consortium, which they
(14:05):
helped us do.
So that was one of the reasons.
But you're right, I'm alwaysamazed that it hasn't been
replicated.
There is a network in Teesdale,but apart from that, and of
course there's the West WestNorthampton Community Buildings
(14:27):
Consortium, but apart from thatI haven't come across it.
But I could well have done.
But I think ACRE would havetold us if there was a
burgeoning of differentconsortia up and down the
country.
I mean, I am inundated withrequests for information across
(14:49):
a whole range of differentissues and of course that's
partly because trustees change,retire and new ones come in and
aren't aren't so well informedand want to be well informed,
and so it's everything from, youknow, rate relief to licenses,
to bouncy castles and, of course, importantly, funding.
Marc Smith (15:10):
Yeah, that's amazing actually.
I mean, obviously you don'thave to be a body to do some of
the things that you've done,because I was on your website
and the list of contractors thatyou have on there.
I think even just like a singlevillage hall on its own could
(15:30):
be doing things like that.
So did you reach out tocontractors or did they reach
out to you?
How did you go about starting alist?
Because I think that would be abenefit even without the
consortium.
It would be a benefit tovillage halls having you know,
or areas having a list ofcontractors that are specialised
in village halls.
George Courtice (15:49):
It's interesting, Marc, that you
honed in on that, because Ithink that was a surprise to me.
I remember thinking one of theregular questions was does
anyone know a good electrician,et cetera.
And that's actually common toresidences living in streets and
things on the internet.
Now People are endlessly askingaren't they, they know a good
plumber, et cetera.
(16:09):
And I thought well, someone,this could be something that
would be very easy to puttogether.
Well, someone, this could besomething that would be very
easy to put together.
So I invited all our members tosuggest suppliers across the
(16:31):
whole range of things putting innew toilets, etc.
Kitchens, roofers, everything,electricians.
And I had to be very careful tomake sure that we weren't
advising everyone to use thesepeople yeah, so we had to
protect ourselves there, and wethen published it so that you
can see which halls haverecommended not recommended it,
but suggest that they were happywith it.
And of course, circumstanceschange, the supplies change, so
(16:53):
they need each hall needs tocheck up on on on them, um, but
at least they've they can lookat the hall, they can ring the
hall up or email the hall tofind out, uh, just what they
were like, whether they're stillin business, etc.
Yeah and so, yes, it's slowlygrowing, uh, and I rely on
members to update it.
Marc Smith (17:14):
Yes, yeah, I think think it's a marvellous idea, of
course it's not just theexternal contractors, george.
Gavin Mitchell (17:20):
I mean, one of the things that caught our eye
many years ago that I thoughtwas excellent, which your
consortium is doing, is theportable appliance testing, and
you know you do that from withinwith trained volunteers to keep
the cost down.
George Courtice (17:35):
That is true.
First I was a little nervous ofthis because I didn't want to
undermine the local establishedsuppliers, but I realised that
village halls are spread and sothat we would concentrate
exclusively on village halls,and often we say no to B&Bs who
(17:55):
want us to test their gear.
It has to be village halls orstroke community buildings, uh,
or their or their users, theirmain users.
We do one or two bands whoregularly go to different halls
because they too need to havetheir gear.
Um, perhaps tested, um, butmostly it is village halls and
community buildings, yes, ortheir users.
(18:22):
We are clearly cheaper thangoing to the commercial market,
and the reason we are is mainlybecause we wanted to make sure
that small halls with perhapsfewer than five appliances, who
might be the ones that are atgreatest risk to the public
using kettles, et cetera wouldactually bother to have their
(18:44):
stuff tested, because, after all, it is, when it comes down to
it, a health and safety issue.
And we're pleased to be able tohave done that to subsidise the
smaller ones by charging thebigger ones slightly more.
And that's worked for what?
15 years now?
And is growing, growing,continues to grow, you know, and
(19:08):
is our main, I have to behonest, is our main source of
regular income and it's veryreasonable too.
Gavin Mitchell (19:16):
If I remember correctly, um for for for small
halls with, say, five appliances, it's somewhere in the region
15 pounds, that's right.
But built for large halls withmore than what?
Is it 30, 31 appliances?
George Courtice (19:30):
I think it's a pound pair appliance, so it's,
it's incredibly reasonable yes,yes, yes and but it and it makes
sense for obviously for thehalls, thank goodness, and
that's why it also makes sensefor us, you know, as a
consortium.
You know, that's why it alsomakes sense for us as a
consortium.
It means that we can get around.
We have approximately 10volunteer testers who are all
(19:56):
trained, and between us we'renow doing about 50, 55 different
places.
Marc Smith (20:04):
That's brilliant.
So did you put them on atraining course to do the PAT
testing?
George Courtice (20:09):
It's all done online.
It's an excellent course, theycan do it at their leisure, but
they have to have a test at theend to make sure they're
competent, and it's done throughan organisation that also
supplies our PAT kits, of whichwe have four, and the only
capital cost, the only capitalinvestments the consortium have,
(20:33):
apart from the general wealthof our members and knowledge, is
that are these kits, is thatare these kits, and we probably
have I don't know about £1,200invested in them, and they need
to be replaced occasionally.
Marc Smith (20:53):
Yes, brilliant, but I'm still amazed that there's
not more people doing this ormore village halls doing this,
because doing that really makessense, especially if it's rural,
especially where we are tryingto get people out.
Is is quite a challenge, but ifyou have it as a as a you know,
a local initiative, as part ofa consortium, it does make more,
more sense yes it really doesyes I.
George Courtice (21:18):
I think it's probably a step too far for
traditional infrastructureorganizations that that are
being have been squeezed overthe last decade hugely.
I think very few localauthorities would be funding
people to advise.
Village halls Might be thepeople who could organize this,
but it is quite time consuming,and so I think they would
concentrate on other thingsother than that.
(21:40):
But you're right, right, theycould.
I'm surprised that they haven'tsaid look, we need to replicate
this, and let's start on thebasis of a service that we know
would be desirable, which wouldbe pat testing absolutely well.
Marc Smith (21:57):
The last time you were on the podcast was during
covid, and you did mention thatyou were unsure of the future
post COVID, so we're now luckyto be in that time.
So what is your opinion on thisnow?
Because you are in quite aunique position to see the
bigger picture with all thevillage halls that you work with
(22:18):
.
So has it returned to normal?
Are you seeing more usage ofhalls since then?
George Courtice (22:28):
I think it's varied.
I would be very loathe to arguethat there has been.
Obviously there was a real dropduring COVID.
It has, from my experience thehall that I'm associated with.
It has bounced back and evenimproved, and that's certainly
the case for other halls as well.
(22:48):
But some halls, I suspect, arestill really struggling.
I have to say that Covidprovided for a windfall in
Northumberland to many villagehalls who were on the ball at
the time and we were certainlyadvising them.
The COVID grants were madeavailable and spread over
(23:10):
perhaps an 18-month, two-yearperiod and these grants were
given to halls with, I have tosay, a minimal amount of kind of
control.
So mostly, if you get, you know, if you're lucky to get a
couple of thousand pounds fromsomeone, they are likely to not
(23:34):
unreasonably to ask how youspent it, et cetera, et cetera.
And I as one of the consortiumadvisors was saying to them look
, if you get this money fromyour local authority, okay from
central government, money fromyour local authority via okay,
from central government, but viathe local authority, for
goodness sake, spend it onCOVID-related costs, all the
stuff we had to put up, thesigns, et cetera, et cetera.
(23:54):
And also possibly the reducedincome as a consequence of the
constraints of meeting.
But it became pretty clear veryearly on that no one was going
to be quibbling about this orwanting any information as to
how it was spent.
So a hall in the followinganyway would could have received
(24:16):
well over a thirty thousandpounds during that period, which
for some would be a completewindfall and a surprise.
And so some halls have suddenlyfound that their reserves have
increased.
They've obviously got to spendit on those things that they're
obliged to spend it on, which isimproving the quality of the
(24:37):
hall, etc.
So that is one of theunintended consequences.
Gavin Mitchell (24:41):
I think that some halls are now financially
more secure than they were.
I think I think innorthumberland you were probably
luckier than than many areas,george.
I think it was a bit of apostcode lottery in terms of
getting the funding and I knowthat certainly we ensure halls
the length and the breadth ofthe country and in some areas
(25:05):
they were having real problemsgetting any funding or support
and we had to supply varioustemplate letters and letters you
could send your MP and so onand so forth, because it wasn't
a level playing field in termsof the funding, in terms of the
funding, but you're absolutelyright, in terms of once they did
get funding, there was verylittle scrutiny in terms of how
(25:32):
the money was spent, whichpersonally I think that's fine,
because I think there's no needfor admin, village hall trustees
or adults.
Every penny counts and everypenny will be invested wisely
for the continuity of thevillage hall.
George Courtice (25:46):
Yeah, I mean certainly that was my conclusion
in the end, and I think it wasthe conclusion of the decision
makers that by then there wastalk of money going astray,
invented private companies etcetera, whereas at least with
village halls and the protectionof the charity commission
requirements etc.
(26:06):
They received money was goingto be spent safely.
Gavin Mitchell (26:10):
yes, indeed, indeed yeah, good governance
excellent.
Marc Smith (26:15):
I think that's a podcast for another day, that
one probably go off on atangents, uh, but yeah, well,
thank you.
Thank you very much for allthree of you for coming back on
the podcast to talk about this.
In the past few podcasts I'vefocused a lot on legislation, so
breaking up with these fuelgoods stories is actually it's
fantastic.
So yeah thank you very much allfor your time.
(26:38):
It's really much appreciatedand it's been a joy to chat with
you.
Gavin Mitchell (26:41):
Thank you.
Thank you, Marc.
George Courtice (26:42):
Thank you, Marc , thank you, Thank you, Marc,
thank you all.
Marc Smith (26:45):
Many thanks to our headline sponsor and specialist
village hall insurance provider,Allied Westminster, the home of
Village Guard, for making thispodcast possible, and to online
booking system provider,hallmaster, who also sponsor our
podcast and can be found atHallmaster.
co.
uk.
You've been listening to theVillage Halls podcast, a unique
(27:06):
listening community forBritain's village community and
church halls and anyoneinterested in the vital services
they provide.
Don't forget entries for theVillage Halls Inspiration Awards
2025 are open now until the30th of September, so visit our
website to find out more and getinvolved.
We will be back again soon withanother episode.
(27:27):
For more information, visitthevillagehallspodcast.
com, where you'll also findlinks to our social media pages.
Thanks again for listening inand until next time.
Goodbye for now.
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