July 29, 2025 • 35 mins
In the July 29th episode of The VIP Seat, co-hosts Jessie Naor and Preston Holland dive into a surprisingly eventful week in private aviation. They open the show with a breakdown of the FAA’s new MOSAIC rules announced at Oshkosh, modernizing certification standards for light sport aircraft and sport pilots. The changes promise to foster innovation in business aviation but raise concerns about the rollback of certain aviation safety standards, particularly for more capable aircraft like the Cessna 182. Jessie emphasizes the FAA’s “safety continuum” and the need to monitor potential unintended consequences, especially in the eVTOL space, which is now more accessible under these new regulations.
Jessie’s Links:
Private Aviation Safety Alliance: www.FlyingPrivate.org LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessienaor
Preston’s Links:
Prestige Aircraft Finance: https://prestigefinance.com/
Private Jet Insider (Newsletter): https://prestonholland.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/prestonholland
X (Formerly Known as Twitter): https://x.com/prestonholland6?lang=en
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Good morning and welcome back tothe VIP Seat.
Today is July 29th. Your Co host as usual, Jesse
Naor and Preston Holland is here.
Preston, I thought we were goingto have a slow Newsweek, but
actually it turns out there's a lot going on from Mosaic rules
to the absolute insanity that was the airline's the last week.
We got a lot coming on this show.
Yeah, for a week that frankly and Oshkosh had very little to
(00:23):
write about and to talk about. There's a lot of other things
that are going on around the world of business aviation,
commercial aviation. There is some stuff going on.
I mean, usually everybody's up in the, you know, in the
Hamptons at their house up there, not really doing a whole
lot. Activity slows, transactions
stall, but it's it's ripping. We're going full speed ahead.
(00:45):
Yeah. So Speaking of that, you said
there was an audible yell in theaudience when the new Mosaic
rules were coming out there at Oshkosh.
Yeah, it was it was the talk of the town for those that don't
follow general aviation. So for for those that are kind
of novice listeners, this is below kind of the the the
(01:06):
smallest, you know, light jet, right.
That's kind of in the owner flown world as you talk about
Mosaic, but the FAA has been kind of flirting with and has
been saying, hey, this is, you know, we're going to come out
with these new rules and regulations when it comes to
sport pilots. And there was a lot of there,
there was, there was trepidationfrom the general aviation
(01:27):
community when last year was supposed to be the year that
everything came out. And then it didn't.
And so everybody said, oh, no, they're going to scrap it.
I mean, I read a few articles ina few reports that said, like
mosaic may actually just be dead, like it may just be DOA.
So the FAA did come out this past week and they clarified
exactly what mosaic is. So for those that don't know
(01:49):
what Mosaic is and don't follow general aviation very closely,
mosaic stands for the modernization of Special Air
Worthiness Certification. So it is basically the
modernization of the light sportaircraft for anybody who follows
that. So previously under the previous
rule set, there was a weight limit, there was a stall speed.
(02:09):
There was a lot of stipulations on aircraft design and
manufacturing, the two people ina light sport aircraft, and this
is for people who fly under the sport pilot rules.
So this is you have to have a driver's license.
You don't have to necessarily have a medical license like you
do to drive a cert to fly a certified aircraft.
But they expanded it. And it also, you know, is on the
(02:32):
back of this EV tall revolution.Maybe we'll all get our own
flying car. I think it addresses some of
that. So people were very excited and
it really, frankly was one of the only like news items for
them. You know, there's some other
smaller stuff, but it was reallythe only like headline, like,
wow, we have to talk about this info that came out of Oshkosh
this year. Yeah, I think there's a lot, a
(02:54):
lot going on here. There's first of all, probably a
push from first of all, I mean, there's not a lot of sport
pilots and there's not a lot of aircraft that are certified for
sport pilots. So that's part of what they've
been working on. But the other big piece of this
is the Evita space, because now they've made a path for powered
lift and powered lift is going to be part of the sport pilot
program. So that EV tall is with let's
(03:16):
say only one seat in them can have throwover controls.
So you can actually conduct EV tall training now where there
wasn't really a pathway for thatfor training before.
Obviously not surprising giving them millions and millions of
dollars that EV tall folks have been putting into the system.
But you know, there's pros and cons to this.
I love new technology. And then we're saying, OK, let's
(03:36):
open this up for more people to learn, more people to create and
create new technology. But in all honesty, it is
rolling back some safety requirements for pilots.
You're going to be able to fly, you know, a Cessna 182 after
having 50 hours and like 1 crosscountry flight.
So there's some rolling back of safety.
The FAA addresses this repeatedly in the the notice.
(03:59):
They say it's on their safety continuum.
And for people that don't know this, I've said it multiple
times, it's like my biggest calling card is 135 is not the
same as 121 because of the FAA'sapproach to safety.
They're saying, you know, an airliner shouldn't be approved
at the same level that a sport pilot or a sport aircraft should
be. So this is them kind of pulling
in more of that safety continuumprocess to this world.
(04:23):
But I mean, it's going to be bigfor EB Talls.
I just hope we don't see any safety issues from it, which we
may because it is a, it's rolling back some things.
Yeah, I think the fact of the matter is, is that if you've
ever flown in a light sport aircraft, like the difference
between a light sport aircraft and 182 is not much like there
is the, the, the performance profile from like how much stuff
(04:45):
can I take in a 182? I can take 4 people, I can take
a lot of stuff, a lot of fuel, Ican fly a little faster.
But the important parts, right, the take off the landing, how
you do weight and balance for the most part super similar to a
lot of the light sport aircraft qualified out there today.
So I think what it does is it expands the envelope to within
(05:07):
what would be considered a safe range, right?
We're not you're not we're not talking about flying.
You can't go fly a business jet with a sport pilot's license,
but it allows for those people that have a sports pilot's
license to fly inside of that range.
I think the other thing, what itdoes is it allows for new
entrance into the market becauselike before you had to go
through the certification process and like it's a pain.
(05:29):
I mean, go ask Epic, go ask Icon, go ask like all of these
certified aircraft maybe in the last 25 years, it's really
challenging to bring a clean sheet design and get it
certified. But the problem was was that
light sport aircraft were seen as almost a joke, right?
Like it was you could almost drive there faster.
(05:50):
You couldn't really take anything.
By the time you loaded it full of fuel, it was you and like
your dog, like it was just it was so restrictive.
I think this allows for the bottom half of the market to
actually create some interestingviable products and bring them
in, bring them into the market. I think that's the exciting
part. And for me, that's what I think
(06:12):
is the biggest win here for people like myself who I'm not
buying $1,000,000 Serious. I everybody who's at serious,
I'm friends. I'm friends and relatives with
all of them, love the airplane. Not for me.
I'm not buying $1,000,000 non retract aircraft.
So it allows for, yeah, but it allows for the bottom of the
(06:35):
market to become more affordable.
But actually performant to arrange this like not silly,
right? Like you're actually flying a
truly GA aircraft, which I thinkgoes back to the spirit of GA in
the 1st place, right, is to unlock accessibility to
individual airports. I'm excited about that.
At the same time, it is loweringthe medical standards for higher
(06:57):
performance aircraft and you arecreating a space and opportunity
for some potentially not great activities.
So I think it's, you know, the FAA is going to have to really
stay on this to make sure that it's, you know, that they're
monitoring the data, but we've got a lot of access to data now.
So they can actually tell, like,yeah, like this is not great.
(07:18):
But particularly the EV tall space, which is a burgeoning
market, you know, this is opening up some possible air
tour activity for sport pilots. This is opening up commercial
carrying potentially of passengers even though it's
limited. You know, we're talking one to
two people. There's some carve outs for like
demo flights and that sort of things.
I am all for moving us forward. Let's get new technology.
(07:42):
I do want to see the EV tall space actually take off like
that would be fantastic. But, you know, it's that balance
between the new and growth and there's some serious kind of
risk here that could occur if the FAA doesn't really keep an
eye on it, which, you know, I hope they do.
We'll see. Yep.
No, agreed. And I, I think that they will.
(08:03):
I mean, this has been a charge from every a, A and every AMA,
you know, Gamma Manufacturers Association, you know, all the
associations have really been pushing for some clarification
around this. So I think it'll be important
to, you know, to see how this turns out.
But Speaking of safety, man, what a heck of a week for the
airlines. I don't even know which story to
(08:25):
start with here because they have so much going on.
Yeah, it's freaking mess is whatit is.
I mean, it's so before the show,Jesse and I were going over what
are we going to talk about? I know that you think that we
totally shoot this all from the hip and you're like, oh, wow,
that's so impressive. They didn't even talk about
this. We do talk about it beforehand.
And we actually forgot stories. Like there were so much
(08:47):
craziness in the airlines that we forgot more than we
remembered in this scenario. So it's pretty crazy.
So running down the list, the one that really stood out to me
was the near miss with the Deltaand Aeromexico aircraft.
There is an Aeromexico. My understanding is the
(09:09):
Aeromexico was coming in and almost landed on top of a Delta
737. And that was not the only crazy
thing that has happened in the last seven days from an in the
air standpoint. Yeah, so, Delta, there are other
incidents that they had occur was one of their crew members
(09:29):
was arrested immediately after late against San Francisco by
Homeland Security. We're finding out now.
Apparently there's a sexual child abuse case appending
against him. But that was a pretty disturbing
to a lot of passengers. Also, Southwest, you know, they
had went into a nosedive to avoid colliding with an antique
fighter jet. 2 flight attendantsinjured.
(09:50):
Also great reminder, always keepyour seat belt on.
I know that's more comfortable not to, but this is the exact
reason why every time I'm on a flight it's I'm strapped in the
whole time. If I'm not getting up and doing
something, it's just good policy.
Yeah, no kidding. And it's, the problem is with a
lot of this stuff is, I think it's, I'm going to start
sounding redundant at some pointin this podcast.
(10:13):
But we, there is a lot of spillover that we, I talked
about this a couple of years agothat like the COVID ripple
effect in the airlines is not like we haven't seen the whole
thing yet. Like we're not 100% there.
I think we're continuing to see like you look at this year just
at all of the craziness that's happened.
And yes, social media and yes, alot of it's more visible, like I
(10:36):
get that, but social media existed before all of the, you
know, before COVID. We're seeing kind of the tail
end right now of all of these things that have happened that
happened during COVID training and people sitting on the ground
and not having situational awareness and all of this ATC
(10:57):
training and layoffs and, you know, a turnover in the pilot
rankings. There's all of this stuff that
is coming to a head. And unfortunately, we've had a
couple of disasters this year that have resulted from it.
We're like the trend is continuing.
We are not like we're not out ofthe woods.
No, we're not going in a good direction.
(11:18):
And I'm not going to be like, alarmist and say it's not safe
to fly today. That's not true.
I mean, obviously, we're seeing a lot more of this stuff because
of social media and all the things that get put out there.
But that also doesn't mean we should sit on our laurels
because to be frank, these are really serious things happening.
You know, American Airlines having landing gear fires and
people getting off the plane. There are things happening that
(11:38):
shouldn't be happening. It's obviously lack of
experience, a lack of staff. What you said is hangover from
COVID, and we're just now kind of seeing it come to to the
forefront. But oh, my gosh, yeah.
Speaking of that American Air Airlines landing gear fire, did
you watch that video of passengers getting off the plane
with all of their luggage? Yeah, it's absolutely insane.
I mean, I'm going to share this really quick so that everybody
(12:00):
can see what we're talking about, but this is the
Instagram. This will be LinkedIn, the
newsletter, this Instagram of people coming down off of the
emergency slide and everybody's got a bag in their hand.
I'm like. There's a delay right here.
There's no one for a while and you're like, what's going on a
little kid and then dad has fourbags.
(12:20):
And a kid, 4 bags and a kid in his arm.
It's like, which one's more important here, folks?
Or how about all the people behind you that are, you know,
inhaling smoke, trying to get off the aircraft?
That's it. It's just makes me so mad.
Big pet thief. This guy falls down with his kid
in his arms. It's like, come on.
No, that was his that he just had a carry on bag.
I don't think he had a kid. There I'm pretty sure he has a
(12:42):
kid in one arm and a carry on. And a carry on the other.
Like, come on, people. So, you know, I, I've, I've
talked about this with my spouse.
I have talked about this with friends.
I'm like, look, if there's an emergency, like getting off the
airplane is the number one priority, everything that you
have in that bag is probably going to get covered by the
(13:02):
airliner's insurance anyways, right?
Like you're going to be fine unless there is like a family
heirloom that like pictures of your grandma that you can't ever
get back. And even then, like pictures of
your grandma or your life for those around you.
Like, sorry, I'm going to pick. Let's pick and choose.
(13:22):
But, you know, get get off the get off the airplane.
And that's not saying, like statistically, part 121 flying
is still incredibly safe in the United States.
Like, it's, you know, statistically still far safer
than getting in a car. But there's a lot of stuff that
continues to happen in the airline world, and we literally
had so many this week that it was hard to count.
(13:43):
I even forgot the other crazy one.
This one was in Spain, but therewas a summer camp of kids,
almost 50 kids got taken off theairplane.
I don't fully understand the circumstances.
I think one of them was like playing with like a the an
aircraft phone or something, which is not good.
But they got kicked off the plane and then their camp
counselor is like thrown to the ground.
She's got like, bruises and blood all over her face.
(14:06):
And then come to find out the captain of that airplane was a
9/11 pilot trainer. He trained one of the guys who
was the hijacker of a plane. I'm like, you can't ask for a
crazier story. You know, they had the kids,
like, deleting stuff off their phone.
Like, it's just, it's a great week to fly private.
That's all I can say. Yeah, no kidding.
(14:26):
That's just, I mean, it's so sad.
Like all of this stuff is just like, I hate that it's
happening. And I wish that I wish that we
could do something as a country,as a industry to try and see if
we can fix this. But I don't know.
It's a mess. I think.
Well, let's let's go to some maybe a little bit more lighter.
(14:47):
I don't know if it's lighter, but a little bit more comical
news. Let's go to our Mile High
Madness segment. For those that are just joining
us, if you're brand new, this isthe segment where we find Jesse
and I find our favorite clips from social media.
We insert them into the show. We get a good chuckle.
We send it to everybody in our newsletter and it's a good
(15:10):
segment to send to your friends.So be sure to share it with your
friends and say, hey, this is pretty funny.
So Jesse's got a good one from amutual friend of ours on
LinkedIn. And, and frankly, like it's,
it's kind of sad, but it's also kind of funny.
Yes, So I we definitely prefer to have like industry posts and
things. So I'm excited to say we have a
really good one this week. So Gary Dunn, President,
(15:31):
Aviation Partners, this is something I think.
They're the winglet. The winglet guys, by the way, in
case you didn't know. But I think we can all agree on
his post. He says, OK, I'm often asked
what living in Seattle is like. Well, currently it's like this.
And for those who don't watch the video version, I'll
describe, He's got a picture posted of a billboard that says,
say no to Blue Angels too loud. What was this?
(15:54):
War, war, trauma and pollution. You know, it's just more of that
people that don't like airplanes, I just don't know
what to do with them. But the best part of this, I
think, is the comments section. I commented myself that you just
need one nicely placed Sonic boom to knock that sign down.
Gosh, there's some good ones here.
(16:15):
There's always going to be detractors.
Fortunately, you can't hear themwhen a Super Hornets flying by.
That is awesome. Peak commentary from the
industry, bravo. Even my friend Delray said maybe
we should truck in some supporters who like loud
military jets and I am all for it.
Yeah, now that is all these people commenting are all
(16:37):
friends. We love to burn some Jet A, as
you know, on the VIP seat here, we are big fans of aviation and
big fans of American exceptionalism.
So this is exactly opposite to everything that we stand for as
a show. So we love loud noises.
We love representations of the United States military strength.
(16:58):
So, you know, if you don't like it, this is probably not the
right show for you. Yeah, and Cameron probably won
here. If we're gonna waste taxpayer
money, I want it burning Jet A. That's exactly right.
That's exactly right. Cameron texted me this
afternoon. So, Cameron, I will call you
this week a great comment. So that's mine for the week.
Preston, what beautiful social media posts do you have for us
(17:19):
today? So my Mile High madness actually
comes from Oshkosh again. This is probably one of the more
exciting things that came out ofOshkosh.
This is a public service announcement to companies and
brands that are out there. Brand safe advertising is
something that is very importantand incredibly hard to monitor
(17:40):
around influencer marketing, so be sure to watch videos ahead of
time before you hire an influencer or else you may end
up like Cirrus Aircraft who hired this girl Irene and I.
To be clear, I don't know Irene.I've never seen Irene on
(18:00):
Instagram before, but this videowent absolutely viral of her
basically getting fired from Cirrus.
But she said, here's the part that is the funniest to me.
She says I got fired by Cirrus Aviation.
Well, Cirrus Aviation, the charter operator out of Las
Vegas is not who hired her to come be in their booth at
(18:22):
Oshkosh. It's Cirrus Aircraft, the one
that manufacturers airplanes. And so they had invited her to
come out. I guess they saw how many
followers she had and how great that was and they hired her out.
She kind of says it, but not really.
But essentially she got fired because she didn't wear proper
(18:45):
undergarments to be in the booth.
And they said, hey, that doesn'trepresent our brand.
We're going to have to sever ourpartnership.
And I'm like, I'm like, duh, like, sorry, duh.
What do you what did you think was going to happen?
Well, to be fair, when you go back and watch her videos, you
(19:07):
know, you don't really see like what's going on.
You know, it's like neck down. So I was, I was waiting to see
how you were going to describe that on air for everybody, what
the actual issue was. Very politically correct the the
way that you don't get sued. But yeah, no, that this was a
fail on Sirius's part. I feel a little bit bad for them
(19:29):
as a brand, but also I don't because this is what happens
when you don't vet your influencers.
It's just people's. I mean, there are sometimes like
there's something buried on the Internet from like years ago
that you wouldn't want the brandto be associated with.
But if you go to her page, you so clearly can see from the
content she's posting that something's just not right
(19:49):
there. So like bare minimum watch the
last like 20 videos at least before you.
Hire bare minimum. That was good.
I was going to say something about, you know, don't be a deer
in the headlights either. But I, you know, I don't know,
we're, we're getting so off track from aviation today, but
(20:12):
we just can't help it. It was.
It was not called an Oshkosh, I'll tell you that.
But we will post those links in the comment section so you can
check it out for yourself. That's exactly right.
Look, I, I and this one went viral, which is not great for
Cirrus because it went hyper mega viral.
So, yeah, vet your influence here.
Moving on to other things. This is a story that you sent me
(20:34):
and frankly, I'm still having a hard time exactly understanding
like what it does. It's a guided visual approach.
Garmin and Hughes have partneredon guided visual approaches.
Jesse, can you walk us through what happened?
Yeah, so, and I had to also makesome phone calls today,
including my former chief pilot,because I want to make sure I'm
wrapping my head around it because hey, guess what?
(20:55):
I'm not a pilot. I don't know how many people
know that I'm not. I do aviation safety, but from
different perspectives. But anyway, I was talking to my
former chief pilot. So everybody knows, you know,
there's precision, non precisionapproaches.
We know there's a lot of safety issues with circling approaches,
unstabilized approaches. What Garmin has done and they're
partnering with Hughes and I think this is absolutely
(21:16):
incredible technology. They have basically created a
non RNAV, RNAV approach for 31 airports.
And these are the really high risk ones like Teterboro.
I think JFK is on the list, Aspen, certain runways right
now. Not every runway, but you can
get this upgrade. It's about 500 to $2000
depending on which aircraft are flying.
(21:38):
But you're essentially getting aguided approach if you're doing
visual, if you're circling. I think this is an amazing
safety tool. It's not going to solve every
problem with some of these airports, but I think it's
pretty amazing and it's really interesting to see that Garmin
and other companies are doing this and not the FAA.
They're really layering on this huge safety feature to something
(21:58):
that generally the FAA would have done.
General aviation, enough credit on the safety side, like it's
not. They don't wait for the federal
government to mandate something.They observe and then they
implement. And it's a very small community,
which is part of what is great about it.
And those of us that work in it love it.
That is part of the appeal here is that when things like this
happen and you have some safety events that need to be taking
(22:20):
care of and dealt with, they getdealt with in the private
sector. And so this is another great
example of that. 31 approaches at 25 airports that include
Teterboro runway 01 Van Nuys Runway 34 left Truckee runway 29
and 11, which Truckee is really tricky to get into from,
according to my friends that flied a lot Scottsdale runway 21
(22:41):
and many others. So it's guided visuals.
It's a little bit kind of outside of the box thinking on
the safety side, but I think, you know, kudos to Garmin.
They're always pushing the limitwhen it comes to safety.
That part is very exciting and, and love to see them continue to
innovate there and not, you know, abandoned general aviation
because it's, you know, in a, ina market in which a lot of
(23:02):
companies like Garmin could totally say, look, it's great
and all, but like, we'll just let Honeywell and the big, you
know, subprimes do it. Garmin's really double clicking
and, and, and, you know, doubling down on it.
And I think that their structurefrom a, from a structure
standpoint and how they have layered their management like
proves that, you know, the Marine and the aircraft division
(23:22):
are totally different from the watch guys, right?
Like it's totally different group, Like they have totally
different, you know, business units and stuff like that, which
I think is exciting. Let's continue to see safety be
at the forefront. And one thing too I want to
mention for you know, the non pilots or non pilot language
folks out there, when you're flying into an airport, you have
these guided systems, right? You know, there's precision
(23:43):
approaches is what we call them in sun cases.
Our NAB is a precision approach.What this has done, it's
basically gone outside of the FAA designating a precision
approach at an airfield. So it's giving you information
in the cockpit that's useful, but it's not necessarily FAA
approved. That's also an important note
for pilots out there. Don't expect that ATC is going
to know anything about this because they don't, you know, if
(24:05):
you say that you're on, you know, this Garmin approach,
they'll be like, I don't know what you're talking about.
Just do what I tell you to, don't argue with me.
Just do what I tell you to. But you know, I think it's
still, it's an amazing tool. It'd be interesting to see how
it gets implemented and if the FAA ever gets a little
frustrated with this because these precision approaches are
FAA approved. Generally, the training
(24:25):
programs, particularly at 135, are approved training programs
that show you how to use these systems.
This is something new. It's outside of the box.
I think it's cool. We're going to have to see what
measurable safety impacts it has.
And if the FAA pops its head up and goes, wait a second, it
looks like a precision approach,shouldn't we have something to
do here? Yeah, yeah, very true.
(24:46):
Well, Speaking of precision approaches into airports, I'll
tell you one airport that's not going to get a precision
approach for a while is a brand new airport that is apparently
expected to open in 2037. Maybe we'll see.
It's been in planning stages since 22,006.
What can you tell us about the new Las Vegas?
(25:07):
They're Nevada's newest proposedairport.
Yeah, So they haven't come up with an official name yet, but
there's a public hearing next week for the first official
comments. It is happening.
Las Vegas is getting a secondaryairfield about 20-3 miles away
from the Strip. It's a little farther away.
But what is huge about this newsis that we actually haven't seen
(25:28):
what is called a Greenfield, brand new airport built, you
know, for commercial purposes inthe US since 1869, Dallas, Fort
Worth. Same, same year, we went to the
moon, allegedly, if you're into that kind of thing.
I'm just kidding. I'm totally a.
Lunar Diver. I'm just kidding, I'm not into
that. I mean, that's wild, though.
(25:48):
I don't think I even realized that statistic.
I mean, it's been, you know, like half a century since we
built a new airport, and you know how many more aircraft
operations we've had since then?Like that's absolutely wild.
Yeah, I mean, I'm thinking of all of the regional airports,
like there's a lot like Chattanooga been around since
before 1969, you know, all the crazy South Florida ones that
(26:12):
have commercial air service beenaround since the 50s and 60s.
It's I think that the general underlying comment to that is
it's true that aviation really got stuck post World War 2.
Like there's a giant boom and then it just kind of like stuck,
right? Like radar NAV technology stuck,
airport building stuck, right? So like there's all this stuff.
(26:34):
I would be curious to see kind of some sort of a correlation
study between like what actuallycauses that?
I think it's like a combination of maybe some overbuilding and
then coupled with a lot of regulation that comes in kind of
during that time, right? You have all of the three letter
agencies that got built right before that period and all of a
sudden they started kind of getting out of control with a
(26:57):
lot of their power. So I think that I think that
that's it. That's a super interesting stat.
The one thing that I'll be curious about, and this is the
thing that I don't know nor did I research, but this is what me
thinking out loud is what about like private airports and
private airstrips, right? So I know of like multiples in
Texas that have been built in the last safety years, right?
(27:18):
Like that's after 1969. I wonder what that statistic, if
it's like it has to have commercial air service, maybe
the runways a certain length because like there's there's
other air parks and places wherepeople live in general aviation
airports that have definitely popped up since then.
So I have a little inside knowledge on this.
So I used to manage Baltimore Heliport, which was actually a
(27:40):
public use airport. So that's the designations
between public use and private Private and you can do whatever
you want with is private property.
Public use means you have to letanybody come in there because
you're going to get government funds to improve your field.
Like we got an aviation station covered by Maryland Aviation
Administration at the time. So I think there's around 19,000
private airfields if I'm not mistaken.
(28:02):
I think I saw that number earlier.
The number of public use airports, though, has been kind
of stagnant. You know, in 2000, there were
5300 public use airports. There's only 5200 today.
So I think public use is going down, which makes sense because
everyone hates airport noise except for all of us who love
it. But the private use, I mean,
it's private property. You can do whatever you want to.
(28:24):
I do wonder if that's grown or not.
Yeah, I don't know. I, I think that that's an
interesting as an interesting stat, you know, hopefully this
helps bring aviation forward. But again, it's been in the plan
since 2006. So, like, I'm not holding my
breath. You know, it's 30 miles South of
Las Vegas, which is a long way away.
(28:45):
They're gonna spend, they're saying 6 billion to $14 billion.
One of them is gonna be the longest runway.
In the event 12, so probably 12 to 28 billion.
Right, we'll be honest. Right.
Or more. But look, I mean Vegas is
growing. So I think if anybody needs it,
I think they recognize that and their current air airfield is
just, I mean, they're at Max capacity plus I mean, it's the
(29:06):
desert. So there's probably a.
Lot of space. You know what that means, Jesse,
right? It means NBAA is stuck in Vegas
for the next 100 years. Oh no, I really like the guys at
NB AA, but as someone who's going to just go ahead and throw
the opinion out into the ether from this is not even
(29:26):
necessarily mine, but it's the number one thing that gets
talked about in every dinner conversation is when is NB AA
base going to finally leave Vegas?
I have had that conversation sixtimes in the last two weeks.
Like I'm not kidding. People are not stoked that it is
perpetually stuck in Vegas, and if this airport gets there, we
(29:47):
will be there for decades and decades and decades.
See, I'm a blackjack player, so I'm like all about Vegas all the
time. Unless there's another
destination that has just as fantastic gambling.
But that's just me. I'm supposed to be there for
work, not gambling. I think, I think most everybody
that goes there is also there for work, but not really.
But yeah, it's hopefully, hopefully this airport goes
(30:09):
through and hopefully. I wonder is that closer than
Henderson Exec? Is it, is it closer?
Henderson Exec is not close, butit's not that far and there's I
don't think there. Is it's not 25.
No. So I don't know, maybe it just
makes sense to expand that. I don't know.
(30:30):
I'm not, I'm not an airport administration person, so.
No, I say, more. New airports everywhere, Not
even there. Over there, everywhere, you
know, everywhere. Don't like, you know where they
don't like airports? Europe.
But you know what? We don't have any more tariffs
between US and Europe. You like that transition.
It's a pretty good transition, right?
I think that was fantastic. Our last story of the day,
(30:52):
European tariffs. We've all dodged a bullet.
Well, some of us have dodged a bullet.
Not all of us. There is a whole lot of people
who have been on a whole lot of panels talking about tariffs
over the last four months that have that just got all of their
time back. I mean there's, there's a few
people in specific that I can think of that we're on a lot of
(31:15):
panels out there. I will let those people go
nameless, but Asan is one of them from Canada.
He has been on a lot of panels talking about tariffs and it
looks like Europe is going to get a one for one reduction.
Sorry, 0 for 0 tariffs, so one for one, zero for zero with the
European Union. So doesn't include the United
(31:36):
States or the United Kingdom, which in June had a similar
tariff policy. So basically all of the EU has
now gotten a 0 for 0 exemption, which I think probably was
driven, if I had to guess, primarily commercially, but we
get a really nice benefit in business aviation.
Yeah. So, you know, I think it's 15%
(31:57):
on all other goods, but aircraftand aircraft parts are going to
be 0% tariffs. So that's great news.
DASSO specifically had a pretty rough quarter Q2 and they were
pointing to not only supply chain, which everyone points to
for issues, but also that they were going to face critical
issues if there were basically any tariffs on their airplanes
(32:18):
coming to the United States. But looks like that's no longer
an issue unless our administration changes their
mind in six months. Would you never know?
I hope not. But yeah, it's good news.
We still have some more tariff deals to work out across the
world, but at least this one seems to be off the shelf for
now. Yeah, I think that it is AI
think it's a net positive. I think that there is there was
(32:39):
a lot of uncertainty. I mean you had you had a lot of
manufacturers that were having really tough guidance on this.
Dahir is one of them. Desso Falcon jet was another
one. GE was another one.
Like there was a lot of Rolls Royce was another one.
There was a lot of like uncertainty that was coming out
of this. And I think that for aviation in
general, business aviation specifically, I think it's
(33:01):
really important for us to have free trade between the different
between the different countries.I think however you feel about
the general concept around tariffs can be, I think that
there can be a bifurcation in your opinion and you can say,
hey, in call it critical supply chains, right, Like terrorists
probably. And I would, I would put
(33:22):
aviation in a critical supply chain bucket.
You can say like, hey, we want to tax the crap out of cheap
shirts, T-shirts to come out of China.
Like, I get it right, You want to bring back American
exceptionalism, all that. But for the free trade of
aerospace and defense parts or for business aviation parts, I
think it's really important thatwe have kind of free flow and
don't restrict that. Yeah.
(33:43):
I mean, it's like geopolitical risk all across the world.
I think some of the times tariffs are a good way to get
people to behave the way you want them to.
I don't think that we really need the EU.
I mean, especially after they'vesigned, you know, all the the
war machine funding that was needed for Europe.
I think at this point like they're behaving.
So I'm glad that we're kind of taking, taking that off on them.
(34:06):
I wasn't for it, but it's good now we'll have more free trade
and hopefully we can figure the rest out with Brazil and all the
other countries that we're stillpending with.
Yep, exactly. Well, it's good news and it's a
good day to be in business aviation if you work in business
aviation, if you work around it,if you're an enthusiast, if
you're an owner. Thank you so much for listening.
It really means a lot to both ofus.
(34:28):
What would mean even more is if you would share it with somebody
in your network. So hit the share button on
however you're consuming this podcast and send it to somebody
that you know inside the industry and say, hey, pretty
spicy takes. We are going to start having
guests. So I'm going to go ahead and
tease that if you think of a good guest, not yourself, don't
(34:48):
nominate yourself, nominate somebody else, right?
And maybe they'll nominate you back.
But if you can think of somebody, send it to us.
You can find Jesse on LinkedIn. It's Jesse Naor.
You can find me on LinkedIn. Preston Holland, send us a note,
Drop us a note. Let us know who you want to see
as a guest on the VIP seat. Like and subscribe, hit the bell
button, do all of the things. Five star reviews helps us get
(35:10):
out to more people. Sign up for the newsletter at
the VIP seat. Like us on LinkedIn.
I've done enough asking. Now it's time for you to safely
arrive at your destination. Thanks for listening and we will
see you next week.
Good morning and welcome back tothe VIP Seat.
Today is July 29th. Your Co host as usual, Jesse
Naor and Preston Holland is here.
Preston, I thought we were goingto have a slow Newsweek, but
actually it turns out there's a lot going on from Mosaic rules
to the absolute insanity that was the airline's the last week.
We got a lot coming on this show.
Yeah, for a week that frankly and Oshkosh had very little to
(00:23):
write about and to talk about. There's a lot of other things
that are going on around the world of business aviation,
commercial aviation. There is some stuff going on.
I mean, usually everybody's up in the, you know, in the
Hamptons at their house up there, not really doing a whole
lot. Activity slows, transactions
stall, but it's it's ripping. We're going full speed ahead.
(00:45):
Yeah. So Speaking of that, you said
there was an audible yell in theaudience when the new Mosaic
rules were coming out there at Oshkosh.
Yeah, it was it was the talk of the town for those that don't
follow general aviation. So for for those that are kind
of novice listeners, this is below kind of the the the
(01:06):
smallest, you know, light jet, right.
That's kind of in the owner flown world as you talk about
Mosaic, but the FAA has been kind of flirting with and has
been saying, hey, this is, you know, we're going to come out
with these new rules and regulations when it comes to
sport pilots. And there was a lot of there,
there was, there was trepidationfrom the general aviation
(01:27):
community when last year was supposed to be the year that
everything came out. And then it didn't.
And so everybody said, oh, no, they're going to scrap it.
I mean, I read a few articles ina few reports that said, like
mosaic may actually just be dead, like it may just be DOA.
So the FAA did come out this past week and they clarified
exactly what mosaic is. So for those that don't know
(01:49):
what Mosaic is and don't follow general aviation very closely,
mosaic stands for the modernization of Special Air
Worthiness Certification. So it is basically the
modernization of the light sportaircraft for anybody who follows
that. So previously under the previous
rule set, there was a weight limit, there was a stall speed.
(02:09):
There was a lot of stipulations on aircraft design and
manufacturing, the two people ina light sport aircraft, and this
is for people who fly under the sport pilot rules.
So this is you have to have a driver's license.
You don't have to necessarily have a medical license like you
do to drive a cert to fly a certified aircraft.
But they expanded it. And it also, you know, is on the
(02:32):
back of this EV tall revolution.Maybe we'll all get our own
flying car. I think it addresses some of
that. So people were very excited and
it really, frankly was one of the only like news items for
them. You know, there's some other
smaller stuff, but it was reallythe only like headline, like,
wow, we have to talk about this info that came out of Oshkosh
this year. Yeah, I think there's a lot, a
(02:54):
lot going on here. There's first of all, probably a
push from first of all, I mean, there's not a lot of sport
pilots and there's not a lot of aircraft that are certified for
sport pilots. So that's part of what they've
been working on. But the other big piece of this
is the Evita space, because now they've made a path for powered
lift and powered lift is going to be part of the sport pilot
program. So that EV tall is with let's
(03:16):
say only one seat in them can have throwover controls.
So you can actually conduct EV tall training now where there
wasn't really a pathway for thatfor training before.
Obviously not surprising giving them millions and millions of
dollars that EV tall folks have been putting into the system.
But you know, there's pros and cons to this.
I love new technology. And then we're saying, OK, let's
(03:36):
open this up for more people to learn, more people to create and
create new technology. But in all honesty, it is
rolling back some safety requirements for pilots.
You're going to be able to fly, you know, a Cessna 182 after
having 50 hours and like 1 crosscountry flight.
So there's some rolling back of safety.
The FAA addresses this repeatedly in the the notice.
(03:59):
They say it's on their safety continuum.
And for people that don't know this, I've said it multiple
times, it's like my biggest calling card is 135 is not the
same as 121 because of the FAA'sapproach to safety.
They're saying, you know, an airliner shouldn't be approved
at the same level that a sport pilot or a sport aircraft should
be. So this is them kind of pulling
in more of that safety continuumprocess to this world.
(04:23):
But I mean, it's going to be bigfor EB Talls.
I just hope we don't see any safety issues from it, which we
may because it is a, it's rolling back some things.
Yeah, I think the fact of the matter is, is that if you've
ever flown in a light sport aircraft, like the difference
between a light sport aircraft and 182 is not much like there
is the, the, the performance profile from like how much stuff
(04:45):
can I take in a 182? I can take 4 people, I can take
a lot of stuff, a lot of fuel, Ican fly a little faster.
But the important parts, right, the take off the landing, how
you do weight and balance for the most part super similar to a
lot of the light sport aircraft qualified out there today.
So I think what it does is it expands the envelope to within
(05:07):
what would be considered a safe range, right?
We're not you're not we're not talking about flying.
You can't go fly a business jet with a sport pilot's license,
but it allows for those people that have a sports pilot's
license to fly inside of that range.
I think the other thing, what itdoes is it allows for new
entrance into the market becauselike before you had to go
through the certification process and like it's a pain.
(05:29):
I mean, go ask Epic, go ask Icon, go ask like all of these
certified aircraft maybe in the last 25 years, it's really
challenging to bring a clean sheet design and get it
certified. But the problem was was that
light sport aircraft were seen as almost a joke, right?
Like it was you could almost drive there faster.
(05:50):
You couldn't really take anything.
By the time you loaded it full of fuel, it was you and like
your dog, like it was just it was so restrictive.
I think this allows for the bottom half of the market to
actually create some interestingviable products and bring them
in, bring them into the market. I think that's the exciting
part. And for me, that's what I think
(06:12):
is the biggest win here for people like myself who I'm not
buying $1,000,000 Serious. I everybody who's at serious,
I'm friends. I'm friends and relatives with
all of them, love the airplane. Not for me.
I'm not buying $1,000,000 non retract aircraft.
So it allows for, yeah, but it allows for the bottom of the
(06:35):
market to become more affordable.
But actually performant to arrange this like not silly,
right? Like you're actually flying a
truly GA aircraft, which I thinkgoes back to the spirit of GA in
the 1st place, right, is to unlock accessibility to
individual airports. I'm excited about that.
At the same time, it is loweringthe medical standards for higher
(06:57):
performance aircraft and you arecreating a space and opportunity
for some potentially not great activities.
So I think it's, you know, the FAA is going to have to really
stay on this to make sure that it's, you know, that they're
monitoring the data, but we've got a lot of access to data now.
So they can actually tell, like,yeah, like this is not great.
(07:18):
But particularly the EV tall space, which is a burgeoning
market, you know, this is opening up some possible air
tour activity for sport pilots. This is opening up commercial
carrying potentially of passengers even though it's
limited. You know, we're talking one to
two people. There's some carve outs for like
demo flights and that sort of things.
I am all for moving us forward. Let's get new technology.
(07:42):
I do want to see the EV tall space actually take off like
that would be fantastic. But, you know, it's that balance
between the new and growth and there's some serious kind of
risk here that could occur if the FAA doesn't really keep an
eye on it, which, you know, I hope they do.
We'll see. Yep.
No, agreed. And I, I think that they will.
(08:03):
I mean, this has been a charge from every a, A and every AMA,
you know, Gamma Manufacturers Association, you know, all the
associations have really been pushing for some clarification
around this. So I think it'll be important
to, you know, to see how this turns out.
But Speaking of safety, man, what a heck of a week for the
airlines. I don't even know which story to
(08:25):
start with here because they have so much going on.
Yeah, it's freaking mess is whatit is.
I mean, it's so before the show,Jesse and I were going over what
are we going to talk about? I know that you think that we
totally shoot this all from the hip and you're like, oh, wow,
that's so impressive. They didn't even talk about
this. We do talk about it beforehand.
And we actually forgot stories. Like there were so much
(08:47):
craziness in the airlines that we forgot more than we
remembered in this scenario. So it's pretty crazy.
So running down the list, the one that really stood out to me
was the near miss with the Deltaand Aeromexico aircraft.
There is an Aeromexico. My understanding is the
(09:09):
Aeromexico was coming in and almost landed on top of a Delta
737. And that was not the only crazy
thing that has happened in the last seven days from an in the
air standpoint. Yeah, so, Delta, there are other
incidents that they had occur was one of their crew members
(09:29):
was arrested immediately after late against San Francisco by
Homeland Security. We're finding out now.
Apparently there's a sexual child abuse case appending
against him. But that was a pretty disturbing
to a lot of passengers. Also, Southwest, you know, they
had went into a nosedive to avoid colliding with an antique
fighter jet. 2 flight attendantsinjured.
(09:50):
Also great reminder, always keepyour seat belt on.
I know that's more comfortable not to, but this is the exact
reason why every time I'm on a flight it's I'm strapped in the
whole time. If I'm not getting up and doing
something, it's just good policy.
Yeah, no kidding. And it's, the problem is with a
lot of this stuff is, I think it's, I'm going to start
sounding redundant at some pointin this podcast.
(10:13):
But we, there is a lot of spillover that we, I talked
about this a couple of years agothat like the COVID ripple
effect in the airlines is not like we haven't seen the whole
thing yet. Like we're not 100% there.
I think we're continuing to see like you look at this year just
at all of the craziness that's happened.
And yes, social media and yes, alot of it's more visible, like I
(10:36):
get that, but social media existed before all of the, you
know, before COVID. We're seeing kind of the tail
end right now of all of these things that have happened that
happened during COVID training and people sitting on the ground
and not having situational awareness and all of this ATC
(10:57):
training and layoffs and, you know, a turnover in the pilot
rankings. There's all of this stuff that
is coming to a head. And unfortunately, we've had a
couple of disasters this year that have resulted from it.
We're like the trend is continuing.
We are not like we're not out ofthe woods.
No, we're not going in a good direction.
(11:18):
And I'm not going to be like, alarmist and say it's not safe
to fly today. That's not true.
I mean, obviously, we're seeing a lot more of this stuff because
of social media and all the things that get put out there.
But that also doesn't mean we should sit on our laurels
because to be frank, these are really serious things happening.
You know, American Airlines having landing gear fires and
people getting off the plane. There are things happening that
(11:38):
shouldn't be happening. It's obviously lack of
experience, a lack of staff. What you said is hangover from
COVID, and we're just now kind of seeing it come to to the
forefront. But oh, my gosh, yeah.
Speaking of that American Air Airlines landing gear fire, did
you watch that video of passengers getting off the plane
with all of their luggage? Yeah, it's absolutely insane.
I mean, I'm going to share this really quick so that everybody
(12:00):
can see what we're talking about, but this is the
Instagram. This will be LinkedIn, the
newsletter, this Instagram of people coming down off of the
emergency slide and everybody's got a bag in their hand.
I'm like. There's a delay right here.
There's no one for a while and you're like, what's going on a
little kid and then dad has fourbags.
(12:20):
And a kid, 4 bags and a kid in his arm.
It's like, which one's more important here, folks?
Or how about all the people behind you that are, you know,
inhaling smoke, trying to get off the aircraft?
That's it. It's just makes me so mad.
Big pet thief. This guy falls down with his kid
in his arms. It's like, come on.
No, that was his that he just had a carry on bag.
I don't think he had a kid. There I'm pretty sure he has a
(12:42):
kid in one arm and a carry on. And a carry on the other.
Like, come on, people. So, you know, I, I've, I've
talked about this with my spouse.
I have talked about this with friends.
I'm like, look, if there's an emergency, like getting off the
airplane is the number one priority, everything that you
have in that bag is probably going to get covered by the
(13:02):
airliner's insurance anyways, right?
Like you're going to be fine unless there is like a family
heirloom that like pictures of your grandma that you can't ever
get back. And even then, like pictures of
your grandma or your life for those around you.
Like, sorry, I'm going to pick. Let's pick and choose.
(13:22):
But, you know, get get off the get off the airplane.
And that's not saying, like statistically, part 121 flying
is still incredibly safe in the United States.
Like, it's, you know, statistically still far safer
than getting in a car. But there's a lot of stuff that
continues to happen in the airline world, and we literally
had so many this week that it was hard to count.
(13:43):
I even forgot the other crazy one.
This one was in Spain, but therewas a summer camp of kids,
almost 50 kids got taken off theairplane.
I don't fully understand the circumstances.
I think one of them was like playing with like a the an
aircraft phone or something, which is not good.
But they got kicked off the plane and then their camp
counselor is like thrown to the ground.
She's got like, bruises and blood all over her face.
(14:06):
And then come to find out the captain of that airplane was a
9/11 pilot trainer. He trained one of the guys who
was the hijacker of a plane. I'm like, you can't ask for a
crazier story. You know, they had the kids,
like, deleting stuff off their phone.
Like, it's just, it's a great week to fly private.
That's all I can say. Yeah, no kidding.
(14:26):
That's just, I mean, it's so sad.
Like all of this stuff is just like, I hate that it's
happening. And I wish that I wish that we
could do something as a country,as a industry to try and see if
we can fix this. But I don't know.
It's a mess. I think.
Well, let's let's go to some maybe a little bit more lighter.
(14:47):
I don't know if it's lighter, but a little bit more comical
news. Let's go to our Mile High
Madness segment. For those that are just joining
us, if you're brand new, this isthe segment where we find Jesse
and I find our favorite clips from social media.
We insert them into the show. We get a good chuckle.
We send it to everybody in our newsletter and it's a good
(15:10):
segment to send to your friends.So be sure to share it with your
friends and say, hey, this is pretty funny.
So Jesse's got a good one from amutual friend of ours on
LinkedIn. And, and frankly, like it's,
it's kind of sad, but it's also kind of funny.
Yes, So I we definitely prefer to have like industry posts and
things. So I'm excited to say we have a
really good one this week. So Gary Dunn, President,
(15:31):
Aviation Partners, this is something I think.
They're the winglet. The winglet guys, by the way, in
case you didn't know. But I think we can all agree on
his post. He says, OK, I'm often asked
what living in Seattle is like. Well, currently it's like this.
And for those who don't watch the video version, I'll
describe, He's got a picture posted of a billboard that says,
say no to Blue Angels too loud. What was this?
(15:54):
War, war, trauma and pollution. You know, it's just more of that
people that don't like airplanes, I just don't know
what to do with them. But the best part of this, I
think, is the comments section. I commented myself that you just
need one nicely placed Sonic boom to knock that sign down.
Gosh, there's some good ones here.
(16:15):
There's always going to be detractors.
Fortunately, you can't hear themwhen a Super Hornets flying by.
That is awesome. Peak commentary from the
industry, bravo. Even my friend Delray said maybe
we should truck in some supporters who like loud
military jets and I am all for it.
Yeah, now that is all these people commenting are all
(16:37):
friends. We love to burn some Jet A, as
you know, on the VIP seat here, we are big fans of aviation and
big fans of American exceptionalism.
So this is exactly opposite to everything that we stand for as
a show. So we love loud noises.
We love representations of the United States military strength.
(16:58):
So, you know, if you don't like it, this is probably not the
right show for you. Yeah, and Cameron probably won
here. If we're gonna waste taxpayer
money, I want it burning Jet A. That's exactly right.
That's exactly right. Cameron texted me this
afternoon. So, Cameron, I will call you
this week a great comment. So that's mine for the week.
Preston, what beautiful social media posts do you have for us
(17:19):
today? So my Mile High madness actually
comes from Oshkosh again. This is probably one of the more
exciting things that came out ofOshkosh.
This is a public service announcement to companies and
brands that are out there. Brand safe advertising is
something that is very importantand incredibly hard to monitor
(17:40):
around influencer marketing, so be sure to watch videos ahead of
time before you hire an influencer or else you may end
up like Cirrus Aircraft who hired this girl Irene and I.
To be clear, I don't know Irene.I've never seen Irene on
(18:00):
Instagram before, but this videowent absolutely viral of her
basically getting fired from Cirrus.
But she said, here's the part that is the funniest to me.
She says I got fired by Cirrus Aviation.
Well, Cirrus Aviation, the charter operator out of Las
Vegas is not who hired her to come be in their booth at
(18:22):
Oshkosh. It's Cirrus Aircraft, the one
that manufacturers airplanes. And so they had invited her to
come out. I guess they saw how many
followers she had and how great that was and they hired her out.
She kind of says it, but not really.
But essentially she got fired because she didn't wear proper
(18:45):
undergarments to be in the booth.
And they said, hey, that doesn'trepresent our brand.
We're going to have to sever ourpartnership.
And I'm like, I'm like, duh, like, sorry, duh.
What do you what did you think was going to happen?
Well, to be fair, when you go back and watch her videos, you
(19:07):
know, you don't really see like what's going on.
You know, it's like neck down. So I was, I was waiting to see
how you were going to describe that on air for everybody, what
the actual issue was. Very politically correct the the
way that you don't get sued. But yeah, no, that this was a
fail on Sirius's part. I feel a little bit bad for them
(19:29):
as a brand, but also I don't because this is what happens
when you don't vet your influencers.
It's just people's. I mean, there are sometimes like
there's something buried on the Internet from like years ago
that you wouldn't want the brandto be associated with.
But if you go to her page, you so clearly can see from the
content she's posting that something's just not right
(19:49):
there. So like bare minimum watch the
last like 20 videos at least before you.
Hire bare minimum. That was good.
I was going to say something about, you know, don't be a deer
in the headlights either. But I, you know, I don't know,
we're, we're getting so off track from aviation today, but
(20:12):
we just can't help it. It was.
It was not called an Oshkosh, I'll tell you that.
But we will post those links in the comment section so you can
check it out for yourself. That's exactly right.
Look, I, I and this one went viral, which is not great for
Cirrus because it went hyper mega viral.
So, yeah, vet your influence here.
Moving on to other things. This is a story that you sent me
(20:34):
and frankly, I'm still having a hard time exactly understanding
like what it does. It's a guided visual approach.
Garmin and Hughes have partneredon guided visual approaches.
Jesse, can you walk us through what happened?
Yeah, so, and I had to also makesome phone calls today,
including my former chief pilot,because I want to make sure I'm
wrapping my head around it because hey, guess what?
(20:55):
I'm not a pilot. I don't know how many people
know that I'm not. I do aviation safety, but from
different perspectives. But anyway, I was talking to my
former chief pilot. So everybody knows, you know,
there's precision, non precisionapproaches.
We know there's a lot of safety issues with circling approaches,
unstabilized approaches. What Garmin has done and they're
partnering with Hughes and I think this is absolutely
(21:16):
incredible technology. They have basically created a
non RNAV, RNAV approach for 31 airports.
And these are the really high risk ones like Teterboro.
I think JFK is on the list, Aspen, certain runways right
now. Not every runway, but you can
get this upgrade. It's about 500 to $2000
depending on which aircraft are flying.
(21:38):
But you're essentially getting aguided approach if you're doing
visual, if you're circling. I think this is an amazing
safety tool. It's not going to solve every
problem with some of these airports, but I think it's
pretty amazing and it's really interesting to see that Garmin
and other companies are doing this and not the FAA.
They're really layering on this huge safety feature to something
(21:58):
that generally the FAA would have done.
General aviation, enough credit on the safety side, like it's
not. They don't wait for the federal
government to mandate something.They observe and then they
implement. And it's a very small community,
which is part of what is great about it.
And those of us that work in it love it.
That is part of the appeal here is that when things like this
happen and you have some safety events that need to be taking
(22:20):
care of and dealt with, they getdealt with in the private
sector. And so this is another great
example of that. 31 approaches at 25 airports that include
Teterboro runway 01 Van Nuys Runway 34 left Truckee runway 29
and 11, which Truckee is really tricky to get into from,
according to my friends that flied a lot Scottsdale runway 21
(22:41):
and many others. So it's guided visuals.
It's a little bit kind of outside of the box thinking on
the safety side, but I think, you know, kudos to Garmin.
They're always pushing the limitwhen it comes to safety.
That part is very exciting and, and love to see them continue to
innovate there and not, you know, abandoned general aviation
because it's, you know, in a, ina market in which a lot of
(23:02):
companies like Garmin could totally say, look, it's great
and all, but like, we'll just let Honeywell and the big, you
know, subprimes do it. Garmin's really double clicking
and, and, and, you know, doubling down on it.
And I think that their structurefrom a, from a structure
standpoint and how they have layered their management like
proves that, you know, the Marine and the aircraft division
(23:22):
are totally different from the watch guys, right?
Like it's totally different group, Like they have totally
different, you know, business units and stuff like that, which
I think is exciting. Let's continue to see safety be
at the forefront. And one thing too I want to
mention for you know, the non pilots or non pilot language
folks out there, when you're flying into an airport, you have
these guided systems, right? You know, there's precision
(23:43):
approaches is what we call them in sun cases.
Our NAB is a precision approach.What this has done, it's
basically gone outside of the FAA designating a precision
approach at an airfield. So it's giving you information
in the cockpit that's useful, but it's not necessarily FAA
approved. That's also an important note
for pilots out there. Don't expect that ATC is going
to know anything about this because they don't, you know, if
(24:05):
you say that you're on, you know, this Garmin approach,
they'll be like, I don't know what you're talking about.
Just do what I tell you to, don't argue with me.
Just do what I tell you to. But you know, I think it's
still, it's an amazing tool. It'd be interesting to see how
it gets implemented and if the FAA ever gets a little
frustrated with this because these precision approaches are
FAA approved. Generally, the training
(24:25):
programs, particularly at 135, are approved training programs
that show you how to use these systems.
This is something new. It's outside of the box.
I think it's cool. We're going to have to see what
measurable safety impacts it has.
And if the FAA pops its head up and goes, wait a second, it
looks like a precision approach,shouldn't we have something to
do here? Yeah, yeah, very true.
(24:46):
Well, Speaking of precision approaches into airports, I'll
tell you one airport that's not going to get a precision
approach for a while is a brand new airport that is apparently
expected to open in 2037. Maybe we'll see.
It's been in planning stages since 22,006.
What can you tell us about the new Las Vegas?
(25:07):
They're Nevada's newest proposedairport.
Yeah, So they haven't come up with an official name yet, but
there's a public hearing next week for the first official
comments. It is happening.
Las Vegas is getting a secondaryairfield about 20-3 miles away
from the Strip. It's a little farther away.
But what is huge about this newsis that we actually haven't seen
(25:28):
what is called a Greenfield, brand new airport built, you
know, for commercial purposes inthe US since 1869, Dallas, Fort
Worth. Same, same year, we went to the
moon, allegedly, if you're into that kind of thing.
I'm just kidding. I'm totally a.
Lunar Diver. I'm just kidding, I'm not into
that. I mean, that's wild, though.
(25:48):
I don't think I even realized that statistic.
I mean, it's been, you know, like half a century since we
built a new airport, and you know how many more aircraft
operations we've had since then?Like that's absolutely wild.
Yeah, I mean, I'm thinking of all of the regional airports,
like there's a lot like Chattanooga been around since
before 1969, you know, all the crazy South Florida ones that
(26:12):
have commercial air service beenaround since the 50s and 60s.
It's I think that the general underlying comment to that is
it's true that aviation really got stuck post World War 2.
Like there's a giant boom and then it just kind of like stuck,
right? Like radar NAV technology stuck,
airport building stuck, right? So like there's all this stuff.
(26:34):
I would be curious to see kind of some sort of a correlation
study between like what actuallycauses that?
I think it's like a combination of maybe some overbuilding and
then coupled with a lot of regulation that comes in kind of
during that time, right? You have all of the three letter
agencies that got built right before that period and all of a
sudden they started kind of getting out of control with a
(26:57):
lot of their power. So I think that I think that
that's it. That's a super interesting stat.
The one thing that I'll be curious about, and this is the
thing that I don't know nor did I research, but this is what me
thinking out loud is what about like private airports and
private airstrips, right? So I know of like multiples in
Texas that have been built in the last safety years, right?
(27:18):
Like that's after 1969. I wonder what that statistic, if
it's like it has to have commercial air service, maybe
the runways a certain length because like there's there's
other air parks and places wherepeople live in general aviation
airports that have definitely popped up since then.
So I have a little inside knowledge on this.
So I used to manage Baltimore Heliport, which was actually a
(27:40):
public use airport. So that's the designations
between public use and private Private and you can do whatever
you want with is private property.
Public use means you have to letanybody come in there because
you're going to get government funds to improve your field.
Like we got an aviation station covered by Maryland Aviation
Administration at the time. So I think there's around 19,000
private airfields if I'm not mistaken.
(28:02):
I think I saw that number earlier.
The number of public use airports, though, has been kind
of stagnant. You know, in 2000, there were
5300 public use airports. There's only 5200 today.
So I think public use is going down, which makes sense because
everyone hates airport noise except for all of us who love
it. But the private use, I mean,
it's private property. You can do whatever you want to.
(28:24):
I do wonder if that's grown or not.
Yeah, I don't know. I, I think that that's an
interesting as an interesting stat, you know, hopefully this
helps bring aviation forward. But again, it's been in the plan
since 2006. So, like, I'm not holding my
breath. You know, it's 30 miles South of
Las Vegas, which is a long way away.
(28:45):
They're gonna spend, they're saying 6 billion to $14 billion.
One of them is gonna be the longest runway.
In the event 12, so probably 12 to 28 billion.
Right, we'll be honest. Right.
Or more. But look, I mean Vegas is
growing. So I think if anybody needs it,
I think they recognize that and their current air airfield is
just, I mean, they're at Max capacity plus I mean, it's the
(29:06):
desert. So there's probably a.
Lot of space. You know what that means, Jesse,
right? It means NBAA is stuck in Vegas
for the next 100 years. Oh no, I really like the guys at
NB AA, but as someone who's going to just go ahead and throw
the opinion out into the ether from this is not even
(29:26):
necessarily mine, but it's the number one thing that gets
talked about in every dinner conversation is when is NB AA
base going to finally leave Vegas?
I have had that conversation sixtimes in the last two weeks.
Like I'm not kidding. People are not stoked that it is
perpetually stuck in Vegas, and if this airport gets there, we
(29:47):
will be there for decades and decades and decades.
See, I'm a blackjack player, so I'm like all about Vegas all the
time. Unless there's another
destination that has just as fantastic gambling.
But that's just me. I'm supposed to be there for
work, not gambling. I think, I think most everybody
that goes there is also there for work, but not really.
But yeah, it's hopefully, hopefully this airport goes
(30:09):
through and hopefully. I wonder is that closer than
Henderson Exec? Is it, is it closer?
Henderson Exec is not close, butit's not that far and there's I
don't think there. Is it's not 25.
No. So I don't know, maybe it just
makes sense to expand that. I don't know.
(30:30):
I'm not, I'm not an airport administration person, so.
No, I say, more. New airports everywhere, Not
even there. Over there, everywhere, you
know, everywhere. Don't like, you know where they
don't like airports? Europe.
But you know what? We don't have any more tariffs
between US and Europe. You like that transition.
It's a pretty good transition, right?
I think that was fantastic. Our last story of the day,
(30:52):
European tariffs. We've all dodged a bullet.
Well, some of us have dodged a bullet.
Not all of us. There is a whole lot of people
who have been on a whole lot of panels talking about tariffs
over the last four months that have that just got all of their
time back. I mean there's, there's a few
people in specific that I can think of that we're on a lot of
(31:15):
panels out there. I will let those people go
nameless, but Asan is one of them from Canada.
He has been on a lot of panels talking about tariffs and it
looks like Europe is going to get a one for one reduction.
Sorry, 0 for 0 tariffs, so one for one, zero for zero with the
European Union. So doesn't include the United
(31:36):
States or the United Kingdom, which in June had a similar
tariff policy. So basically all of the EU has
now gotten a 0 for 0 exemption, which I think probably was
driven, if I had to guess, primarily commercially, but we
get a really nice benefit in business aviation.
Yeah. So, you know, I think it's 15%
(31:57):
on all other goods, but aircraftand aircraft parts are going to
be 0% tariffs. So that's great news.
DASSO specifically had a pretty rough quarter Q2 and they were
pointing to not only supply chain, which everyone points to
for issues, but also that they were going to face critical
issues if there were basically any tariffs on their airplanes
(32:18):
coming to the United States. But looks like that's no longer
an issue unless our administration changes their
mind in six months. Would you never know?
I hope not. But yeah, it's good news.
We still have some more tariff deals to work out across the
world, but at least this one seems to be off the shelf for
now. Yeah, I think that it is AI
think it's a net positive. I think that there is there was
(32:39):
a lot of uncertainty. I mean you had you had a lot of
manufacturers that were having really tough guidance on this.
Dahir is one of them. Desso Falcon jet was another
one. GE was another one.
Like there was a lot of Rolls Royce was another one.
There was a lot of like uncertainty that was coming out
of this. And I think that for aviation in
general, business aviation specifically, I think it's
(33:01):
really important for us to have free trade between the different
between the different countries.I think however you feel about
the general concept around tariffs can be, I think that
there can be a bifurcation in your opinion and you can say,
hey, in call it critical supply chains, right, Like terrorists
probably. And I would, I would put
(33:22):
aviation in a critical supply chain bucket.
You can say like, hey, we want to tax the crap out of cheap
shirts, T-shirts to come out of China.
Like, I get it right, You want to bring back American
exceptionalism, all that. But for the free trade of
aerospace and defense parts or for business aviation parts, I
think it's really important thatwe have kind of free flow and
don't restrict that. Yeah.
(33:43):
I mean, it's like geopolitical risk all across the world.
I think some of the times tariffs are a good way to get
people to behave the way you want them to.
I don't think that we really need the EU.
I mean, especially after they'vesigned, you know, all the the
war machine funding that was needed for Europe.
I think at this point like they're behaving.
So I'm glad that we're kind of taking, taking that off on them.
(34:06):
I wasn't for it, but it's good now we'll have more free trade
and hopefully we can figure the rest out with Brazil and all the
other countries that we're stillpending with.
Yep, exactly. Well, it's good news and it's a
good day to be in business aviation if you work in business
aviation, if you work around it,if you're an enthusiast, if
you're an owner. Thank you so much for listening.
It really means a lot to both ofus.
(34:28):
What would mean even more is if you would share it with somebody
in your network. So hit the share button on
however you're consuming this podcast and send it to somebody
that you know inside the industry and say, hey, pretty
spicy takes. We are going to start having
guests. So I'm going to go ahead and
tease that if you think of a good guest, not yourself, don't
(34:48):
nominate yourself, nominate somebody else, right?
And maybe they'll nominate you back.
But if you can think of somebody, send it to us.
You can find Jesse on LinkedIn. It's Jesse Naor.
You can find me on LinkedIn. Preston Holland, send us a note,
Drop us a note. Let us know who you want to see
as a guest on the VIP seat. Like and subscribe, hit the bell
button, do all of the things. Five star reviews helps us get
(35:10):
out to more people. Sign up for the newsletter at
the VIP seat. Like us on LinkedIn.
I've done enough asking. Now it's time for you to safely
arrive at your destination. Thanks for listening and we will
see you next week.
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