October 3, 2025 • 27 mins
Are you feeling shame over the number of times you've hit the reset button on your career? This episode is your permission slip to celebrate every pivot!
Host Jazzmyn welcomes writer and creator Kristen Garaffo of the Substack Older, Wiser, Hotter to discuss her incredible journey from professional theater and journalism to launching a successful micro-bakery from her kitchen. Kristen reveals how discovering her Manifesting Generator (MG) Human Design provided the relief she needed to accept her multifaceted nature and embrace "doing all the things."
We're tackling the fear of inconsistency and shifting the focus from chasing passion to simply following your curiosity.
In this episode, we dive into:
- The Power of Pivoting: Kristen's path from theater to freelance journalism to starting a micro-bakery.
- The Soft Life Business Model: How to build a sustainable, cozy entrepreneurship venture (like a micro-bakery) using a pre-order model.
- Healing Inconsistency Shame: How Human Design and Astrology helped Kristen shed the traditional narrative that bouncing between projects is a flaw.
- Substack vs. Short-Form: Why the slower, "cozier" nature of platforms like Substack cultivates deeper connection and community.
- Curiosity as Courage: The profound commitment to choosing curiosity over the overwhelming pressure of passion to propel your visibility and expansion.
This is essential listening for any creator, Manifesting Generator, or entrepreneur who struggles to commit to one path and needs the courage to launch the next big (or small) idea.
Want to connect?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Are you sitting with thousands of hours of B-roll
(00:02):
content and telling yourself,I'll start posting tomorrow?
Are you in your head worriedabout your friends and family
thinking your cringe forchoosing to be visible?
Are you chasing trends insteadof building influence?
Welcome to the VisibilityStandard, where the visionaries
of today are changing the rolesof their industries and letting
their voice be heard.
I'm your host, Jasmine, and weare setting this together.
(00:30):
I am so excited for my guesttoday.
She is another DMV local.
Her Substack is Older, Wiser,Hotter, and she has also opened
a micro bakery out of herkitchen where I actually picked
up cookies the previous weekend.
Kristen Grafo, thank you so muchfor joining me today.
SPEAKER_01 (00:50):
Thank you for having me.
I'm so excited to chat today.
SPEAKER_00 (00:53):
Of course.
I have been following yourSubstack for a little bit, and I
did not even know until likerecently when I had reached out
that you were also like myneighbor, and that's so
exciting.
I haven't met a lot of creatorslike in this space.
And so I'm always so excitedwhen I see like DC or Maryland
in the bio.
SPEAKER_01 (01:14):
Yeah, and the feeling is mutual.
It's so cool to connect becausethe internet can feel so vast
because it is so vast.
So it's so fun to find localfriends who are close by.
SPEAKER_00 (01:24):
Absolutely.
So what inspired Older WiserHotter?
SPEAKER_01 (01:29):
So I started Substack.
I'm actually, yesterday was myone year anniversary of being on
Substack.
So I basically am a writer.
That's my job.
I'm a freelance journalist.
And I started that was apandemic pivot for me.
So I've always been a writer,but I started freelance writing
(01:49):
in 2020, 2021.
And basically, I had these likepersonal essays that I would
write just like for fun in aGoogle doc that I titled
Personal Essays.
And I probably had about twoyears worth of just like random
essays about just like personalthings that were happening in my
(02:10):
life, or just like deep thoughtsthat I had about, I don't know,
just like whatever I was into atthe moment.
And I just got to a point whereI was like, what am I doing with
these essays?
Like they're just sitting, noone has read them.
Like it's just me and my likesecret Google Doc.
And I got to a place where I waslike annoyed with myself because
(02:32):
I was like, these essays aren'tdoing anything being hidden away
on my computer.
I was already on Substack aslike a reader, and I was like,
this platform is here.
I might as well like just divein and try it.
And I did, and I was so scaredto do it because again, these
(02:53):
essays hadn't seen the light ofday.
Then I put them out in theworld.
And yeah, and then I just dovein and I was proud of myself for
doing it, but also the communityon Substack is so kind and
positive, and it is a socialmedia platform, but the vibes
feel so much different than anyother platform that I'm on, and
(03:13):
it's a nice rhythm.
I like how it seems likeSubstack's a little bit slower,
a little bit cosier, again, alittle bit more like kind and
supportive.
And yeah, and I share weekly onSundays, and it's evolved
because it's been a full year.
But yeah, that's my Substackorigin story.
SPEAKER_00 (03:31):
I love that, and you're so right about Substack
because the consumption rate isdifferent, and that was short
form content.
It's 30 seconds a minute, andthen people are trying to cram
all of this information into onevideo, and people are engaging
with it versus Substack.
There's space to like digest,you're not forced or rushed to
make an opinion and reading.
(03:53):
You are like engaging withsomeone's thoughts and insights
in such a different way, and Ibelieve that cultivates a very
different community, a differentvibe.
I love that your vibe reads softlife, but it doesn't preach soft
life.
I honestly get this joy, thisleaning into hobbies and things
(04:18):
and ideas that make you feelgood.
And I'm just wondering, is thatthe vibe you're trying to
cultivate or what's theinspiration behind that?
SPEAKER_01 (04:27):
Yeah, I number one, thank you for saying all of
that.
I think when I started theSubstack, I so I called it it's
called older wiser hotterbecause like I am I just turned
38 and I was feeling feelingsbasically about getting older
and like just trying to figureout like what that meant.
So a lot of my personal essaysin the beginning were about
(04:50):
that, and it's now evolved intoI think you're right, like I
crave a soft life.
Like I am very much into thecozy vibes and especially life
at home because I work from homeand I love home, and my writing
and my content is a lot abouthome life.
And I think that I try to thinkabout the content and the
writing and the art that I putout into the world as I don't
(05:14):
know, just I never want it tofeel heavy.
I always feel like I'm trying toromanticize my own life.
And I want to share that becauseI think the like where we are
now, it's like there is so muchheavy.
There's so much stuff that wehave to wade through, especially
online.
(05:34):
And I really try to bring alittle bit of light, a little
bit of joy without being overlysacrine, because I also think
that it's not at all helpful.
But yeah, I'm just out heretrying to romanticize my life
and share it.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (05:49):
It's such a fresh perspective because a lot of
times when we see contentcreation, it's people out and
about documenting their lifeversus you are documenting, but
you're documenting youreveryday, whether it's baking,
whether it's your estate sales,which but you are you have found
so many ways to allow workingfrom home and being home to be
(06:14):
an experience versus a verymundane task.
SPEAKER_01 (06:17):
Yeah, and it actually going back to like
pandemic times when I likepivoted, my creative outlet of
choice in 2020 was to likereimagine our one bedroom
apartment.
I literally gave makeovers toevery single room.
It was a one-bedroom apartment,so there wasn't a lot of space
to begin with, but like takingthe time because we weren't
going anywhere, like I took aninterior design class, I like
(06:40):
learned more about design andaesthetics, and I love beautiful
space.
I love beautiful things, and Ithink as I've gotten older, I'm
almost like more sensitive to mysurroundings, and I just get so
much joy out of beauty andbeautiful things.
And like I don't know, I'm justso passionate about making your
home like the most wonderful,beautiful place that you can be.
SPEAKER_00 (07:04):
My jaw almost hit the floor when you said one
bedroom during COVID because Iwas in a two-bedroom and that
felt tight.
So I cannot imagine sharing aone bedroom at a time where you
literally can't go anywhere, youcan't have people over, you also
can't have your externalhobbies, which almost makes
(07:25):
making home a cozy experiencelike that much more valuable
because the pandemic was such aunpredictable time.
The timelines varied, theychanged.
And so you all are learning howto live within this new normal
while also making it a joyfulspace.
I'm curious, what did you pivotfrom before you went into
(07:46):
journalism?
SPEAKER_01 (07:47):
Oh my gosh.
So we'll dive into a short deepdive of my professional life.
I've pivoted so many times.
So my background is actually intheater.
So I used to be a professionalactor in the area.
I went to college for musicaltheater.
I went to a conservatory.
So I dove headfirst into atheater career.
And the short version of thestory is I think I burnt out and
(08:12):
was just ready for somethingnew.
The pandemic was actuallyeverything was shut down and the
live performance was nothappening.
Had also done a bunch of sidejobs because being an actor, you
always have to have something onthe side.
So I taught yoga, I was a lifecoach, I was a barista, I
tempted, I did all of thesethings.
And I didn't even know thatfreelance writing was a thing
(08:33):
until the Every Girl, an onlinemedia outlet, put on their
Instagram story that they werehiring writers.
And within the me redoing myhouse, I had also started a blog
just like for fun.
And I realized when I saw thefreelance writer opening at the
everygirl, I was like, oh, I canget paid just to write and
(08:54):
basically take the stuff that Iwas blogging about, put do it
for someone else and get paidfor it.
And I was like, wow, okay.
So I stumbled upon anotherfreelance writer on Instagram,
and she did one-on-one coaching.
And so I hired her.
We got on a Zoom for an hour,and she basically told me
everything.
She was like, This is how youfind editors, this is how you
(09:16):
pitch, this is how you puttogether a writing portfolio,
all of it.
And I cold pitched, I think itwas for like eight weeks and
heard nothing.
And it was really hard.
Like the first year of freelancewriting was so hard, but I heard
crickets, like literallynothing, not even a no.
And of course, how it ended upturning out is I was like, you
(09:39):
know, I'm gonna try for a weekmore.
And if I don't hear anything, Iwill move on and try something
else.
And of course, that was the weekthat I got my first yes, I'm
interested in writing.
Can we hire you?
SPEAKER_00 (09:51):
Oh my gosh.
So your like career history hasrequired a level of adaptability
that not a lot of people wouldfeel comfortable with in terms
of their job flexibility.
I am so curious.
What has given you the bravery,the courage, the desire to
continue pursuing what feelsgood, even from a career
(10:15):
standpoint?
SPEAKER_01 (10:16):
Yeah, it's really wild.
And I am an astrology girly, Iam a human design girly.
Like those sorts of things helpme understand myself on a deeper
level because I will tell you,it's very frustrating sometimes
for me to be bouncing from thingto thing because I can have an
inner dialogue that's I shouldstick with this.
I shouldn't pivot.
What am I doing with my life?
This is crazy.
(10:37):
And I think I've learned thatthis is actually how I'm made
up.
I think I am a creative to mycore.
And I think that even when I wasdoing theater professionally, I
have essentially freelanced myentire adult life and I've
bounced from thing to thing andI've pieced together income.
(10:58):
And I think doing a traditionalnine to five or even just any
sort of traditional job, itdoesn't work for me as much as I
would love it to, because I feellike my life would be a lot
easier.
But I am not made up in thatway, and I think I've had to do
a lot of learning and acceptingthat part of myself.
(11:18):
And actually, again, bringing itback to astrology, I have so
much Gemini in my chart.
So it's a lot of air.
And when I like deep dive intomy astrology, it's oh, I am
actually like meant to do a lotof different things and I'm
meant to bounce around, and thisis just how you know I operate.
And again, it is not alwayseasy.
(11:39):
It's actually probably nevereasy.
Like I feel like I'm alwayshustling and tinkering, and but
I think at least for myself, Iknew if I would be doing
anything else, I wouldn't behappy.
And I think I would bestruggling and it just wouldn't
be it.
And I think it does require alot of courage, which is not
always easy.
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(12:21):
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SPEAKER_01 (12:32):
And I think I've had a lot of practice pivoting and I
still get nervous about things,but I try to do it anyway.
Like I try to follow my gut.
I don't think my gut has everseared me wrong.
So yeah, I completely understandthough that I have a pretty wild
career path.
SPEAKER_00 (12:52):
But I love that a lot, a lot of my audience is
very much interested inastrology and human design.
And so there's so many of us whorecognize leaning into
especially human design, likewhen we get really clear about
what our energy allows, workinga standard nine to five, when
(13:15):
you learn that for some of us,that's just not feasible, that's
not like sustainable and itdoesn't feel good, and it
actually leads to burnout, itleads to feeling unfulfilled
every day and using your nine tofive and then using your
weekends to recover.
And that's not a life,especially when life already
feels heavy.
(13:36):
We deserve to cultivate andcreate a life and all aspects of
it that feels good.
I'm very curious what your humandesign is.
SPEAKER_01 (13:44):
Yeah.
If you haven't already guessed,I'm a manifesting generator.
Do all the things, and actually,I remember reading and learning
about human design for the firsttime and reading about
manifesting generators and beinglike, oh my gosh, like female
scene for the first time.
And also, I think the biggestthing, too, was I think the idea
of being flaky or not being ableto commit to something was
(14:07):
something that I felt shameabout.
But then reading aboutmanifesting generators and how
like it's never, it's neverbeing flaky.
It's like you're we are supposedto follow our gut and we move
faster than other human designtypes, and it makes complete
sense to be doing three or fourthings at once.
(14:27):
And that also ties in with myGemini tendencies as well.
So actually like feeling so muchrelief just from the human
design, but also knowing theastrology too and being like,
oh, this goes together in a way.
I think the word is like relief.
I was like, okay, I'm not, I'mnot doing something wrong, or I
can maybe stop being so hard onmyself or bouncing around and
(14:50):
doing all of these things.
SPEAKER_00 (14:52):
Yeah, taking away that shame aspect of I'm not
inconsistent, I'm not like Ican't hold down a job, that very
traditional narrative.
It's like actually, I'm notdesigned that way.
Like I'm not meant to functionin that way.
I'm also a fellow generator witha lot of Aquarius in my chart.
So I'm with you the air with theidea and committing to the idea.
(15:15):
And then my strategy withinhuman design is to respond.
And when I learned what thatreally meant, what that looked
like, it's allowed creation andin so many ways that you've
talked about it to feel morelike natural.
unknown (15:30):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:30):
But speaking of pivoting, you have a bakery now.
SPEAKER_01 (15:34):
My gosh, yeah, girl, another pivot.
You've it again.
SPEAKER_00 (15:40):
I know you've been leaning into the Ina Garden
summer.
What has inspired the bakery?
SPEAKER_01 (15:47):
Okay, so this is so wild.
So the bakery has been inexistence for three weeks now,
almost four.
So, like, we are at the verybaby beginnings of whatever this
is.
But I okay, the short version,and then maybe we can get into
the long version.
I so I'm I'm also at the veryend of the artist's way.
I don't know if you are familiarwith the artist way, but it's a
(16:09):
12-week creativity course.
And essentially, I have putmyself in a creative bubble.
And through the artist's way, Ihave relearned, I've basically
been like dabbling in likechildhood hobbies and like fun.
Like I have like reread booksthat I like read, I reread my
(16:29):
American Girl books just becauseI wanted to.
And I've been doing all thesethings.
And one of the things that Ihave given myself permission to
do is to bake.
So I'm in my Arna Garten eratoo.
I read her memoir last fall andit completely changed my life.
I am so obsessed with her andher life, and like I didn't
really know a ton about herbefore I read her memoir.
(16:51):
And I started cooking andhosting and trying all of these
things on.
And one thing that I learned asI was going through these
cookbooks is that I'm not muchof a cook and I would always go
to the back of the book whereall of the dessert recipes are.
And like the mains and theappetizers like honestly don't
interest me as much as thedesserts.
(17:12):
And it's so funny that I learnedthis because I'm not a cookbook
girly, not really a kitchengirly, but once I gave myself
permission to actually play alittle bit with the dessert
recipes, I basically rememberedthat I grew up baking with my
mom.
Like I would help my mom bake,like she bakes all these
Christmas cookies, and I wouldbake them with her, and we made
(17:34):
brownies, and I never helpedwith dinner, but I helped with
the desserts.
And I guess this was a coupleweeks ago in the spring when I
started baking again.
And of course, with thealgorithm of it all, like I
started sharing my baking, andthen Instagram and TikTok
started sending me bakingvideos, and I saw a reel about a
(17:55):
micro bakery and had never heardof a micro bakery, but was like
so intrigued by it, and also itwas like presented as a very
like cozy, soft life business.
It doesn't have to be anythinglike giant or huge unless you
want it to be.
Like it can also be just likevery chill vibes.
And I, this was in April, and Iwas like, this is really cool.
(18:18):
I can't do this right now, butmaybe when the yard sale happens
in the summer, maybe I'll justsell cookies or something.
And then of course, fast forwardlike two months later, there's a
sign in my neighborhood that'soh, the community yard sale is
happening on Saturday.
And I think I saw the sign onWednesday, and I was like, oh my
God, it's here.
The moment is here.
And I went back and forth in mymind where I was like, okay,
(18:41):
it's Wednesday, and this is onSaturday.
Do I have the time to like puteverything together?
And it's not a lot of time, butI think I got to a place where I
will be upset with myself if Idon't do this because the
neighborhood will be out.
It's like an event.
I have to do this.
So we did it.
I put everything together injust a couple days.
Like I got my cottage foodlicense.
(19:02):
I like read all the rules aboutMaryland and I baked cookies and
I baked bread and I like set upthis table and sold almost all
of my, I sold all the bread.
I sold almost all of my cookies,and it was so fun to just be out
in the community.
And and again, knowing my Geminitendencies, I feel like at one
(19:23):
point I would have been like,okay, we sold cookies at the
yard sale.
We're done.
We did it.
But then there was something inmy mind that was like, you know,
we're just beginning.
We're just starting.
We're gonna keep going.
Yeah, so we're going.
And I am starting with chocolatechip cookies and bread, and I'm
doing a pre-order model for nowbecause again, the soft life of
it all is I like pre-ordersbecause I'm not making more than
(19:46):
I need to.
I can do it all from home.
Like, I'm not going to farmersmarkets and go.
There's also a lot of like rulesand stuff.
And I think to start, like thisfeels like a very sustainable,
fun, cute thing to do out of myhouse.
And I still am in a place of, ohmy gosh, I can't believe that
(20:07):
I'm doing this.
This was not on my 2025 bingocard at all, like zero.
But now that it is, I'm justlike surprised and delighted by
all of it.
SPEAKER_00 (20:17):
Oh my goodness.
What you just shared is thisconnection to intuition, this
connection to the self, andallowing yourself to flow with
that and allowing yourself justto be curious.
There's no hard commitments,there is no like timelines to
(20:38):
it.
It's just being curious abouthow this can evolve for you and
moving with that.
SPEAKER_01 (20:45):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think again, bringing backthe astrology into all of it.
I have an Aries moon, and Ithink the Aries part of my chart
likes to do things, but also dothem well.
And like the beginnings ofthings are very exciting.
So I think that rush of, oh mygosh, it's Wednesday and this is
on Saturday, let's just do it.
I feel like my Aries like reallykicked in and was like very into
(21:08):
it.
But again, the kind ofspirituality of all of it and
like the artist way iscompletely spiritual.
It's basically all about justconnecting with the universe or
God or whoever, and just gettingback to a place of this is part
of us and the world is creation,and like we are part of the
creation.
And because we are creativebeings, it's like it's all in
(21:30):
us.
So like we just have to get backto a place where we're quiet
enough, or I can say where I amquiet enough to actually hear
what actually wants to becreated, right?
And again, I had no idea that itwas cookies and bread.
Like, literally no idea.
And it's been so cool andwonderful to just relearn that
(21:50):
about myself and like now be ina position where, you know, like
I spent my morning this morningmaking oatmeal raisin cookies at
eight in the morning.
I'm like, what am I doing?
This is my life now.
I decided that this is my lifenow, so it's really fun.
SPEAKER_00 (22:05):
It's so amazing how we can watch things unfold and
wake up and be like, okay, nowI'm podcasting.
Like social media was really afun hobby.
And now I wake up and this is apart of my routine.
This is a part of my day.
And we don't expect those thingsto resonate, but when they do
resonate, it's oh man.
(22:27):
I would be failing myself if Idon't pursue this.
I would really be selling myselfshort if I don't allow myself
the space to be curious and tosee what this looks like.
SPEAKER_01 (22:38):
For sure.
And I think that requires a gooddose of courage, right?
Especially with the social mediastuff.
It's putting yourself out thereand with the microbery stuff.
Like I wanted to throw up when Ilike open pre-orders for the
first time.
And I still do.
I'm still so nervous to be like,oh my gosh, it feels so wild to
be making cookies in my kitchenand then having people drive to
(23:00):
my house and buying them.
And all of it again, I thinkI've learned that feeling
nervous or fearful or any ofthose kinds of feelings is not a
sign to stop or turn around ordo something else.
It's actually maybe a sign tokeep going.
At least that's what I'velearned.
It's because I think if I wasn'tfeeling the nerves or the kind
(23:21):
of like anxious slash excitednurse, I don't think it would
mean something.
That energy, at least in myexperience, this is something
that you really care about andit's worth pursuing.
Growth doesn't happen unless weget a little uncomfortable,
right?
It's like we have to getcomfortable being uncomfortable
if we grow.
SPEAKER_00 (23:41):
That nervousness, I've learned maybe I'm on the
edge of something.
If I'm feeling this tensitybetween where I am right now and
where I feel like I'm going, andthere's this anxiety, this fear,
that's worth exploring.
It's not necessarily a stop or apause.
It's like you are on the edge ofgrowth, of change, of shifting,
(24:02):
of evolving.
And that's scary because that'sletting go of old patterns, old
belief systems, and even what wefeel we should be doing, those
shoulds that really pigeonholeus and allowing ourselves the
space to step over thatthreshold and say, okay, but I'm
going to pursue it anyway andsee what happens.
SPEAKER_01 (24:24):
Yeah, it's fun and scary.
SPEAKER_00 (24:27):
Fun and scary, and we do it anyway.
SPEAKER_01 (24:29):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (24:31):
I have to ask about the estate sale because that's
so niche and I have not seen itin a long time.
What inspired you to get intoestate sales?
SPEAKER_01 (24:41):
Okay, so there was an estate sale in my
neighborhood, and I literallyhave no idea what it was or what
was going on.
There was just a crowd outsideof a house, and I asked what is
happening, and they're like,It's an estate sale.
And I was like, What is that?
And they like had to explainthat it's selling their stuff.
So there was a list outside.
I signed up.
I ended up going in and my mindwas blown.
(25:02):
I was just like, I'm in a houseand everything is for sale.
It was also a very nice house.
And then from there, there'sanother DC creator.
Her handle is Maddie the B, andshe shares estate sales weekly.
And I was just like, these areso cool.
And I also love like interiordesign and home life.
And yeah, I just started goingand they are so wild.
(25:25):
I've learned so many things.
I've been going for a littlemore than a year now.
And yeah, estate sales are socool.
Like, thrifting is really cool,but I feel like this is its own
like lane in thrifting becauseyou're in people's homes.
And yeah, there are some reallycool houses in the area too.
And like people have livedreally incredible lives here.
And yeah, it's really fun.
(25:46):
I'm basically at one like everyweekend.
SPEAKER_00 (25:49):
I love that.
And I love that that's such alike hobby.
It's so cool.
Yeah.
This conversation was such agift, and this has energized me,
especially coming back from mypodcast about a call.
Having this as my firstconversation, I feel just sets
the tone for so many futureinterviews.
So thank you so much for sittingwith me.
As a closing question for all ofmy guests, I am asking, what is
(26:13):
your commitment to yourself?
SPEAKER_01 (26:17):
My commitment to myself is I just want to
continue following my curiosity.
I know Elizabeth Gilbert talksabout how passion is such a big
overwhelming word, and becausepeople say follow your passion,
and she basically says to swapit with curiosity because
curiosity is a little moregentle and not as foreboding as
(26:41):
passion.
And I actually think pretty mucheverything that I am currently
doing, as far as like the bakeryand Substack and everything, is
because I decided to follow mycuriosity.
So I think I just want to keep,I want to commit to that and I
want to keep going and I want tokeep like dipping my toes into
(27:01):
whatever the next step is, howsmall it is, it probably should
be small because I like to makebig, giant leaps, and I have to
tell myself, no girl, just dothe next small step, whatever
that is.
And yeah, that's what I commitmyself to, uh is my curiosity.
SPEAKER_00 (27:18):
I feel like that's really great advice too for
anyone who is thinking aboutstarting something new is you
don't need to make full hugeleaps, just doing the next small
step brings you so much closerto the dream.
SPEAKER_01 (27:35):
Exactly.
Yeah, and I have to remindmyself of that every day.
So we don't have to take a giantleap, just a small step today,
period.
And then you're right, and thenwe get to wherever we need to
get to.
SPEAKER_00 (27:47):
Thank you so much for joining me today.
SPEAKER_01 (27:49):
Thank you, Jasmine.
This was so fun.
Are you sitting with thousands of hours of B-roll
(00:02):
content and telling yourself,I'll start posting tomorrow?
Are you in your head worriedabout your friends and family
thinking your cringe forchoosing to be visible?
Are you chasing trends insteadof building influence?
Welcome to the VisibilityStandard, where the visionaries
of today are changing the rolesof their industries and letting
their voice be heard.
I'm your host, Jasmine, and weare setting this together.
(00:30):
I am so excited for my guesttoday.
She is another DMV local.
Her Substack is Older, Wiser,Hotter, and she has also opened
a micro bakery out of herkitchen where I actually picked
up cookies the previous weekend.
Kristen Grafo, thank you so muchfor joining me today.
SPEAKER_01 (00:50):
Thank you for having me.
I'm so excited to chat today.
SPEAKER_00 (00:53):
Of course.
I have been following yourSubstack for a little bit, and I
did not even know until likerecently when I had reached out
that you were also like myneighbor, and that's so
exciting.
I haven't met a lot of creatorslike in this space.
And so I'm always so excitedwhen I see like DC or Maryland
in the bio.
SPEAKER_01 (01:14):
Yeah, and the feeling is mutual.
It's so cool to connect becausethe internet can feel so vast
because it is so vast.
So it's so fun to find localfriends who are close by.
SPEAKER_00 (01:24):
Absolutely.
So what inspired Older WiserHotter?
SPEAKER_01 (01:29):
So I started Substack.
I'm actually, yesterday was myone year anniversary of being on
Substack.
So I basically am a writer.
That's my job.
I'm a freelance journalist.
And I started that was apandemic pivot for me.
So I've always been a writer,but I started freelance writing
(01:49):
in 2020, 2021.
And basically, I had these likepersonal essays that I would
write just like for fun in aGoogle doc that I titled
Personal Essays.
And I probably had about twoyears worth of just like random
essays about just like personalthings that were happening in my
(02:10):
life, or just like deep thoughtsthat I had about, I don't know,
just like whatever I was into atthe moment.
And I just got to a point whereI was like, what am I doing with
these essays?
Like they're just sitting, noone has read them.
Like it's just me and my likesecret Google Doc.
And I got to a place where I waslike annoyed with myself because
(02:32):
I was like, these essays aren'tdoing anything being hidden away
on my computer.
I was already on Substack aslike a reader, and I was like,
this platform is here.
I might as well like just divein and try it.
And I did, and I was so scaredto do it because again, these
(02:53):
essays hadn't seen the light ofday.
Then I put them out in theworld.
And yeah, and then I just dovein and I was proud of myself for
doing it, but also the communityon Substack is so kind and
positive, and it is a socialmedia platform, but the vibes
feel so much different than anyother platform that I'm on, and
(03:13):
it's a nice rhythm.
I like how it seems likeSubstack's a little bit slower,
a little bit cosier, again, alittle bit more like kind and
supportive.
And yeah, and I share weekly onSundays, and it's evolved
because it's been a full year.
But yeah, that's my Substackorigin story.
SPEAKER_00 (03:31):
I love that, and you're so right about Substack
because the consumption rate isdifferent, and that was short
form content.
It's 30 seconds a minute, andthen people are trying to cram
all of this information into onevideo, and people are engaging
with it versus Substack.
There's space to like digest,you're not forced or rushed to
make an opinion and reading.
(03:53):
You are like engaging withsomeone's thoughts and insights
in such a different way, and Ibelieve that cultivates a very
different community, a differentvibe.
I love that your vibe reads softlife, but it doesn't preach soft
life.
I honestly get this joy, thisleaning into hobbies and things
(04:18):
and ideas that make you feelgood.
And I'm just wondering, is thatthe vibe you're trying to
cultivate or what's theinspiration behind that?
SPEAKER_01 (04:27):
Yeah, I number one, thank you for saying all of
that.
I think when I started theSubstack, I so I called it it's
called older wiser hotterbecause like I am I just turned
38 and I was feeling feelingsbasically about getting older
and like just trying to figureout like what that meant.
So a lot of my personal essaysin the beginning were about
(04:50):
that, and it's now evolved intoI think you're right, like I
crave a soft life.
Like I am very much into thecozy vibes and especially life
at home because I work from homeand I love home, and my writing
and my content is a lot abouthome life.
And I think that I try to thinkabout the content and the
writing and the art that I putout into the world as I don't
(05:14):
know, just I never want it tofeel heavy.
I always feel like I'm trying toromanticize my own life.
And I want to share that becauseI think the like where we are
now, it's like there is so muchheavy.
There's so much stuff that wehave to wade through, especially
online.
(05:34):
And I really try to bring alittle bit of light, a little
bit of joy without being overlysacrine, because I also think
that it's not at all helpful.
But yeah, I'm just out heretrying to romanticize my life
and share it.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (05:49):
It's such a fresh perspective because a lot of
times when we see contentcreation, it's people out and
about documenting their lifeversus you are documenting, but
you're documenting youreveryday, whether it's baking,
whether it's your estate sales,which but you are you have found
so many ways to allow workingfrom home and being home to be
(06:14):
an experience versus a verymundane task.
SPEAKER_01 (06:17):
Yeah, and it actually going back to like
pandemic times when I likepivoted, my creative outlet of
choice in 2020 was to likereimagine our one bedroom
apartment.
I literally gave makeovers toevery single room.
It was a one-bedroom apartment,so there wasn't a lot of space
to begin with, but like takingthe time because we weren't
going anywhere, like I took aninterior design class, I like
(06:40):
learned more about design andaesthetics, and I love beautiful
space.
I love beautiful things, and Ithink as I've gotten older, I'm
almost like more sensitive to mysurroundings, and I just get so
much joy out of beauty andbeautiful things.
And like I don't know, I'm justso passionate about making your
home like the most wonderful,beautiful place that you can be.
SPEAKER_00 (07:04):
My jaw almost hit the floor when you said one
bedroom during COVID because Iwas in a two-bedroom and that
felt tight.
So I cannot imagine sharing aone bedroom at a time where you
literally can't go anywhere, youcan't have people over, you also
can't have your externalhobbies, which almost makes
(07:25):
making home a cozy experiencelike that much more valuable
because the pandemic was such aunpredictable time.
The timelines varied, theychanged.
And so you all are learning howto live within this new normal
while also making it a joyfulspace.
I'm curious, what did you pivotfrom before you went into
(07:46):
journalism?
SPEAKER_01 (07:47):
Oh my gosh.
So we'll dive into a short deepdive of my professional life.
I've pivoted so many times.
So my background is actually intheater.
So I used to be a professionalactor in the area.
I went to college for musicaltheater.
I went to a conservatory.
So I dove headfirst into atheater career.
And the short version of thestory is I think I burnt out and
(08:12):
was just ready for somethingnew.
The pandemic was actuallyeverything was shut down and the
live performance was nothappening.
Had also done a bunch of sidejobs because being an actor, you
always have to have something onthe side.
So I taught yoga, I was a lifecoach, I was a barista, I
tempted, I did all of thesethings.
And I didn't even know thatfreelance writing was a thing
(08:33):
until the Every Girl, an onlinemedia outlet, put on their
Instagram story that they werehiring writers.
And within the me redoing myhouse, I had also started a blog
just like for fun.
And I realized when I saw thefreelance writer opening at the
everygirl, I was like, oh, I canget paid just to write and
(08:54):
basically take the stuff that Iwas blogging about, put do it
for someone else and get paidfor it.
And I was like, wow, okay.
So I stumbled upon anotherfreelance writer on Instagram,
and she did one-on-one coaching.
And so I hired her.
We got on a Zoom for an hour,and she basically told me
everything.
She was like, This is how youfind editors, this is how you
(09:16):
pitch, this is how you puttogether a writing portfolio,
all of it.
And I cold pitched, I think itwas for like eight weeks and
heard nothing.
And it was really hard.
Like the first year of freelancewriting was so hard, but I heard
crickets, like literallynothing, not even a no.
And of course, how it ended upturning out is I was like, you
(09:39):
know, I'm gonna try for a weekmore.
And if I don't hear anything, Iwill move on and try something
else.
And of course, that was the weekthat I got my first yes, I'm
interested in writing.
Can we hire you?
SPEAKER_00 (09:51):
Oh my gosh.
So your like career history hasrequired a level of adaptability
that not a lot of people wouldfeel comfortable with in terms
of their job flexibility.
I am so curious.
What has given you the bravery,the courage, the desire to
continue pursuing what feelsgood, even from a career
(10:15):
standpoint?
SPEAKER_01 (10:16):
Yeah, it's really wild.
And I am an astrology girly, Iam a human design girly.
Like those sorts of things helpme understand myself on a deeper
level because I will tell you,it's very frustrating sometimes
for me to be bouncing from thingto thing because I can have an
inner dialogue that's I shouldstick with this.
I shouldn't pivot.
What am I doing with my life?
This is crazy.
(10:37):
And I think I've learned thatthis is actually how I'm made
up.
I think I am a creative to mycore.
And I think that even when I wasdoing theater professionally, I
have essentially freelanced myentire adult life and I've
bounced from thing to thing andI've pieced together income.
(10:58):
And I think doing a traditionalnine to five or even just any
sort of traditional job, itdoesn't work for me as much as I
would love it to, because I feellike my life would be a lot
easier.
But I am not made up in thatway, and I think I've had to do
a lot of learning and acceptingthat part of myself.
(11:18):
And actually, again, bringing itback to astrology, I have so
much Gemini in my chart.
So it's a lot of air.
And when I like deep dive intomy astrology, it's oh, I am
actually like meant to do a lotof different things and I'm
meant to bounce around, and thisis just how you know I operate.
And again, it is not alwayseasy.
(11:39):
It's actually probably nevereasy.
Like I feel like I'm alwayshustling and tinkering, and but
I think at least for myself, Iknew if I would be doing
anything else, I wouldn't behappy.
And I think I would bestruggling and it just wouldn't
be it.
And I think it does require alot of courage, which is not
always easy.
SPEAKER_00 (12:00):
When I decided to grow beyond the therapy room, I
knew I needed systems that couldkeep up.
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From online booking to chartingto payments, Jane keeps
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(12:21):
If you're ready to level up yourpractice, head to jane.app and
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SPEAKER_01 (12:32):
And I think I've had a lot of practice pivoting and I
still get nervous about things,but I try to do it anyway.
Like I try to follow my gut.
I don't think my gut has everseared me wrong.
So yeah, I completely understandthough that I have a pretty wild
career path.
SPEAKER_00 (12:52):
But I love that a lot, a lot of my audience is
very much interested inastrology and human design.
And so there's so many of us whorecognize leaning into
especially human design, likewhen we get really clear about
what our energy allows, workinga standard nine to five, when
(13:15):
you learn that for some of us,that's just not feasible, that's
not like sustainable and itdoesn't feel good, and it
actually leads to burnout, itleads to feeling unfulfilled
every day and using your nine tofive and then using your
weekends to recover.
And that's not a life,especially when life already
feels heavy.
(13:36):
We deserve to cultivate andcreate a life and all aspects of
it that feels good.
I'm very curious what your humandesign is.
SPEAKER_01 (13:44):
Yeah.
If you haven't already guessed,I'm a manifesting generator.
Do all the things, and actually,I remember reading and learning
about human design for the firsttime and reading about
manifesting generators and beinglike, oh my gosh, like female
scene for the first time.
And also, I think the biggestthing, too, was I think the idea
of being flaky or not being ableto commit to something was
(14:07):
something that I felt shameabout.
But then reading aboutmanifesting generators and how
like it's never, it's neverbeing flaky.
It's like you're we are supposedto follow our gut and we move
faster than other human designtypes, and it makes complete
sense to be doing three or fourthings at once.
(14:27):
And that also ties in with myGemini tendencies as well.
So actually like feeling so muchrelief just from the human
design, but also knowing theastrology too and being like,
oh, this goes together in a way.
I think the word is like relief.
I was like, okay, I'm not, I'mnot doing something wrong, or I
can maybe stop being so hard onmyself or bouncing around and
(14:50):
doing all of these things.
SPEAKER_00 (14:52):
Yeah, taking away that shame aspect of I'm not
inconsistent, I'm not like Ican't hold down a job, that very
traditional narrative.
It's like actually, I'm notdesigned that way.
Like I'm not meant to functionin that way.
I'm also a fellow generator witha lot of Aquarius in my chart.
So I'm with you the air with theidea and committing to the idea.
(15:15):
And then my strategy withinhuman design is to respond.
And when I learned what thatreally meant, what that looked
like, it's allowed creation andin so many ways that you've
talked about it to feel morelike natural.
unknown (15:30):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:30):
But speaking of pivoting, you have a bakery now.
SPEAKER_01 (15:34):
My gosh, yeah, girl, another pivot.
You've it again.
SPEAKER_00 (15:40):
I know you've been leaning into the Ina Garden
summer.
What has inspired the bakery?
SPEAKER_01 (15:47):
Okay, so this is so wild.
So the bakery has been inexistence for three weeks now,
almost four.
So, like, we are at the verybaby beginnings of whatever this
is.
But I okay, the short version,and then maybe we can get into
the long version.
I so I'm I'm also at the veryend of the artist's way.
I don't know if you are familiarwith the artist way, but it's a
(16:09):
12-week creativity course.
And essentially, I have putmyself in a creative bubble.
And through the artist's way, Ihave relearned, I've basically
been like dabbling in likechildhood hobbies and like fun.
Like I have like reread booksthat I like read, I reread my
(16:29):
American Girl books just becauseI wanted to.
And I've been doing all thesethings.
And one of the things that Ihave given myself permission to
do is to bake.
So I'm in my Arna Garten eratoo.
I read her memoir last fall andit completely changed my life.
I am so obsessed with her andher life, and like I didn't
really know a ton about herbefore I read her memoir.
(16:51):
And I started cooking andhosting and trying all of these
things on.
And one thing that I learned asI was going through these
cookbooks is that I'm not muchof a cook and I would always go
to the back of the book whereall of the dessert recipes are.
And like the mains and theappetizers like honestly don't
interest me as much as thedesserts.
(17:12):
And it's so funny that I learnedthis because I'm not a cookbook
girly, not really a kitchengirly, but once I gave myself
permission to actually play alittle bit with the dessert
recipes, I basically rememberedthat I grew up baking with my
mom.
Like I would help my mom bake,like she bakes all these
Christmas cookies, and I wouldbake them with her, and we made
(17:34):
brownies, and I never helpedwith dinner, but I helped with
the desserts.
And I guess this was a coupleweeks ago in the spring when I
started baking again.
And of course, with thealgorithm of it all, like I
started sharing my baking, andthen Instagram and TikTok
started sending me bakingvideos, and I saw a reel about a
(17:55):
micro bakery and had never heardof a micro bakery, but was like
so intrigued by it, and also itwas like presented as a very
like cozy, soft life business.
It doesn't have to be anythinglike giant or huge unless you
want it to be.
Like it can also be just likevery chill vibes.
And I, this was in April, and Iwas like, this is really cool.
(18:18):
I can't do this right now, butmaybe when the yard sale happens
in the summer, maybe I'll justsell cookies or something.
And then of course, fast forwardlike two months later, there's a
sign in my neighborhood that'soh, the community yard sale is
happening on Saturday.
And I think I saw the sign onWednesday, and I was like, oh my
God, it's here.
The moment is here.
And I went back and forth in mymind where I was like, okay,
(18:41):
it's Wednesday, and this is onSaturday.
Do I have the time to like puteverything together?
And it's not a lot of time, butI think I got to a place where I
will be upset with myself if Idon't do this because the
neighborhood will be out.
It's like an event.
I have to do this.
So we did it.
I put everything together injust a couple days.
Like I got my cottage foodlicense.
(19:02):
I like read all the rules aboutMaryland and I baked cookies and
I baked bread and I like set upthis table and sold almost all
of my, I sold all the bread.
I sold almost all of my cookies,and it was so fun to just be out
in the community.
And and again, knowing my Geminitendencies, I feel like at one
(19:23):
point I would have been like,okay, we sold cookies at the
yard sale.
We're done.
We did it.
But then there was something inmy mind that was like, you know,
we're just beginning.
We're just starting.
We're gonna keep going.
Yeah, so we're going.
And I am starting with chocolatechip cookies and bread, and I'm
doing a pre-order model for nowbecause again, the soft life of
it all is I like pre-ordersbecause I'm not making more than
(19:46):
I need to.
I can do it all from home.
Like, I'm not going to farmersmarkets and go.
There's also a lot of like rulesand stuff.
And I think to start, like thisfeels like a very sustainable,
fun, cute thing to do out of myhouse.
And I still am in a place of, ohmy gosh, I can't believe that
(20:07):
I'm doing this.
This was not on my 2025 bingocard at all, like zero.
But now that it is, I'm justlike surprised and delighted by
all of it.
SPEAKER_00 (20:17):
Oh my goodness.
What you just shared is thisconnection to intuition, this
connection to the self, andallowing yourself to flow with
that and allowing yourself justto be curious.
There's no hard commitments,there is no like timelines to
(20:38):
it.
It's just being curious abouthow this can evolve for you and
moving with that.
SPEAKER_01 (20:45):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think again, bringing backthe astrology into all of it.
I have an Aries moon, and Ithink the Aries part of my chart
likes to do things, but also dothem well.
And like the beginnings ofthings are very exciting.
So I think that rush of, oh mygosh, it's Wednesday and this is
on Saturday, let's just do it.
I feel like my Aries like reallykicked in and was like very into
(21:08):
it.
But again, the kind ofspirituality of all of it and
like the artist way iscompletely spiritual.
It's basically all about justconnecting with the universe or
God or whoever, and just gettingback to a place of this is part
of us and the world is creation,and like we are part of the
creation.
And because we are creativebeings, it's like it's all in
(21:30):
us.
So like we just have to get backto a place where we're quiet
enough, or I can say where I amquiet enough to actually hear
what actually wants to becreated, right?
And again, I had no idea that itwas cookies and bread.
Like, literally no idea.
And it's been so cool andwonderful to just relearn that
(21:50):
about myself and like now be ina position where, you know, like
I spent my morning this morningmaking oatmeal raisin cookies at
eight in the morning.
I'm like, what am I doing?
This is my life now.
I decided that this is my lifenow, so it's really fun.
SPEAKER_00 (22:05):
It's so amazing how we can watch things unfold and
wake up and be like, okay, nowI'm podcasting.
Like social media was really afun hobby.
And now I wake up and this is apart of my routine.
This is a part of my day.
And we don't expect those thingsto resonate, but when they do
resonate, it's oh man.
(22:27):
I would be failing myself if Idon't pursue this.
I would really be selling myselfshort if I don't allow myself
the space to be curious and tosee what this looks like.
SPEAKER_01 (22:38):
For sure.
And I think that requires a gooddose of courage, right?
Especially with the social mediastuff.
It's putting yourself out thereand with the microbery stuff.
Like I wanted to throw up when Ilike open pre-orders for the
first time.
And I still do.
I'm still so nervous to be like,oh my gosh, it feels so wild to
be making cookies in my kitchenand then having people drive to
(23:00):
my house and buying them.
And all of it again, I thinkI've learned that feeling
nervous or fearful or any ofthose kinds of feelings is not a
sign to stop or turn around ordo something else.
It's actually maybe a sign tokeep going.
At least that's what I'velearned.
It's because I think if I wasn'tfeeling the nerves or the kind
(23:21):
of like anxious slash excitednurse, I don't think it would
mean something.
That energy, at least in myexperience, this is something
that you really care about andit's worth pursuing.
Growth doesn't happen unless weget a little uncomfortable,
right?
It's like we have to getcomfortable being uncomfortable
if we grow.
SPEAKER_00 (23:41):
That nervousness, I've learned maybe I'm on the
edge of something.
If I'm feeling this tensitybetween where I am right now and
where I feel like I'm going, andthere's this anxiety, this fear,
that's worth exploring.
It's not necessarily a stop or apause.
It's like you are on the edge ofgrowth, of change, of shifting,
(24:02):
of evolving.
And that's scary because that'sletting go of old patterns, old
belief systems, and even what wefeel we should be doing, those
shoulds that really pigeonholeus and allowing ourselves the
space to step over thatthreshold and say, okay, but I'm
going to pursue it anyway andsee what happens.
SPEAKER_01 (24:24):
Yeah, it's fun and scary.
SPEAKER_00 (24:27):
Fun and scary, and we do it anyway.
SPEAKER_01 (24:29):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (24:31):
I have to ask about the estate sale because that's
so niche and I have not seen itin a long time.
What inspired you to get intoestate sales?
SPEAKER_01 (24:41):
Okay, so there was an estate sale in my
neighborhood, and I literallyhave no idea what it was or what
was going on.
There was just a crowd outsideof a house, and I asked what is
happening, and they're like,It's an estate sale.
And I was like, What is that?
And they like had to explainthat it's selling their stuff.
So there was a list outside.
I signed up.
I ended up going in and my mindwas blown.
(25:02):
I was just like, I'm in a houseand everything is for sale.
It was also a very nice house.
And then from there, there'sanother DC creator.
Her handle is Maddie the B, andshe shares estate sales weekly.
And I was just like, these areso cool.
And I also love like interiordesign and home life.
And yeah, I just started goingand they are so wild.
(25:25):
I've learned so many things.
I've been going for a littlemore than a year now.
And yeah, estate sales are socool.
Like, thrifting is really cool,but I feel like this is its own
like lane in thrifting becauseyou're in people's homes.
And yeah, there are some reallycool houses in the area too.
And like people have livedreally incredible lives here.
And yeah, it's really fun.
(25:46):
I'm basically at one like everyweekend.
SPEAKER_00 (25:49):
I love that.
And I love that that's such alike hobby.
It's so cool.
Yeah.
This conversation was such agift, and this has energized me,
especially coming back from mypodcast about a call.
Having this as my firstconversation, I feel just sets
the tone for so many futureinterviews.
So thank you so much for sittingwith me.
As a closing question for all ofmy guests, I am asking, what is
(26:13):
your commitment to yourself?
SPEAKER_01 (26:17):
My commitment to myself is I just want to
continue following my curiosity.
I know Elizabeth Gilbert talksabout how passion is such a big
overwhelming word, and becausepeople say follow your passion,
and she basically says to swapit with curiosity because
curiosity is a little moregentle and not as foreboding as
(26:41):
passion.
And I actually think pretty mucheverything that I am currently
doing, as far as like the bakeryand Substack and everything, is
because I decided to follow mycuriosity.
So I think I just want to keep,I want to commit to that and I
want to keep going and I want tokeep like dipping my toes into
(27:01):
whatever the next step is, howsmall it is, it probably should
be small because I like to makebig, giant leaps, and I have to
tell myself, no girl, just dothe next small step, whatever
that is.
And yeah, that's what I commitmyself to, uh is my curiosity.
SPEAKER_00 (27:18):
I feel like that's really great advice too for
anyone who is thinking aboutstarting something new is you
don't need to make full hugeleaps, just doing the next small
step brings you so much closerto the dream.
SPEAKER_01 (27:35):
Exactly.
Yeah, and I have to remindmyself of that every day.
So we don't have to take a giantleap, just a small step today,
period.
And then you're right, and thenwe get to wherever we need to
get to.
SPEAKER_00 (27:47):
Thank you so much for joining me today.
SPEAKER_01 (27:49):
Thank you, Jasmine.
This was so fun.
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