October 31, 2025 • 35 mins
Visionary, are you rushing toward a "fixed" version of yourself, believing that healing must be hard, fast, and complicated?
In this eye-opening conversation, Jazzmyn sits down with trauma therapist Hannah Guy of Revive Therapy Services to break down the concept of "Too Much, Too Soon, Too Fast" and how this pace can actually prevent true healing from setting in. This episode is a must-listen for entrepreneurs and creators who struggle with self-trust, shame, and the compulsion to intellectualize their emotions.
Hannah and Jazzmyn unpack the nuances of Big T and little t trauma, emotional bypassing, and the toxic shame around feelings like anger and "stuckness"—especially in women and the Borderline Personality Disorder population. They challenge the idea of "doom scrolling" as rest and offer tangible, bottom-up approaches (like simple sensory practices and active rest) to widen your window of tolerance and build resilience without adding more pressure to your plate.
It's time to stop treating yourself like a "broken toaster" and give your mind and nervous system the deliberate, gentle rest it needs to finally process and integrate old wounds.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Are you sitting with thousands of hours of B-roll
(00:02):
content and telling yourself,I'll start posting tomorrow?
Are you in your head worriedabout your friends and family
thinking your friends refusingto be visible?
Are you chasing trends insteadof building influence?
Welcome to the visibilitystandard, where the visionaries
of today are changing the rulesof their industries and letting
their voice be heard.
I'm your host, Jasmine, and weare studying together.
(00:30):
I am so excited for my guesttoday.
She is the owner of ReviveTherapy Services.
She is also the podcast host forTrauma Tea and Tangents.
I'm so excited to have you.
SPEAKER_01 (00:42):
Hi everyone.
It's so lovely to be on yourpodcast, Jasmine.
I've been seeing you on socialmedia and been watching your
clips, and I resonate with somuch of what you say.
And it's so down to earth andreal.
And I always vibe with that overjust like the fakeness of it
all.
But, anyways, my name is Hannah.
(01:03):
I have a practice located inPhiladelphia, and we specialize
in trauma and eating disorders.
We really work a lot with peoplewith complex PTSD, and we use
more bottom-up approaches likeEMDR somatic experiencing.
And I specifically am certifiedin EMDR.
(01:23):
I really like working withtrauma, complex trauma.
And I always am down to have aconversation about this work
that we do.
SPEAKER_00 (01:33):
Yes, I feel like trauma is such an evolving
conversation.
What is trauma?
How do we define it?
How do we experience it?
And I think what we are comingdown to is trauma is how you
respond.
And trauma is trapped into ourbodies.
(01:55):
Trauma is the impact that isleft on us.
And I love the concept that youpresented for what we discussed,
which is what happens whentrauma happens too fast, too
soon, and too often.
SPEAKER_01 (02:09):
I know you've probably touched on this, but I
think it's important to justremind people there's different
types of trauma.
Like we have our big tea traumaof just those things that people
normally consider as a traumaticevent, like that car accident,
domestic violence, abuse, andall of those are trauma.
But we oftentimes skip over thatwhat we call little tea trauma,
(02:34):
which is kind of just like yourday in and out experiences that
for some reason your nervoussystem isn't able to process it
in an adaptive way.
And so then that results in kindof like a block.
Then that's when trauma happens.
I recently, not recently, I wasworking with my own therapist
(02:57):
maybe earlier this year.
And I'm very much personallylike, okay, like let's just get
this shit done, right?
I'm like, I'm done with this.
I've been working on it forever,let's rip off the band-aid.
And she was the first one toever bring up this concept of
oftentimes something istraumatic because it happens too
(03:18):
soon, too much, too fast foryour nervous system to be able
to handle.
And so oftentimes, um,especially in Western cultures,
we just want that immediate fix.
So we try to heal trauma in thesame exact way, right?
Too much, too soon, too fast.
So we dive deep into intensetrauma work.
(03:40):
We sign up for all these likeself-help programs because we
just want it to be over with.
And what my therapist said atthe time was we need to do the
inverse of that, actually.
You know, we need to go actuallyprobably a little too slow and
underload ourselves with thethings that we need to heal.
SPEAKER_00 (04:02):
Yeah, I love that you say that as I'm thinking
about my own healing journey,especially with diving into
trauma and especially thoselittle tea traumas.
I think one thing that societypaired with our own protective
parts is that we can minimizethose little tea traumas and we
(04:23):
can tell ourselves wasn't thatbig of a deal in comparison to
big T trauma.
Like I'm standing tall, andevery time we invalidate that
part of ourselves, we arereinforcing the trauma A, and
it's going to be much harder toaccess later on in therapy.
So as I've been working with myown therapist, I recognize like
(04:46):
I'll talk about something, andthen there's this block that
comes up, and I'm like, no, Ijust want to work through it, I
want to figure it out.
And then there's that protectivepart that's like actually, this
is gonna be really hard for youto process.
Like, I know you haveintellectualized it, you you
have figured it out, but this isactually gonna hurt.
SPEAKER_01 (05:09):
Intellectualizing, you know, as therapists, we're
just I don't know if youapproach it, I'm like, yeah, I
already know everything.
And because I know everything,which is not true, everyone, I
do not know everything, but Ifeel like how I've adapted to
work through my own trauma isjust to really understand the
why and psychoanalyze myself,which there's a benefit to that.
(05:33):
There's nothing wrong with that,and it doesn't actually help me
process the trauma, it justreally throws gas on the fire
when I actually need to justlike pause and instead of trying
to figure out the why and how amI gonna handle this situation?
Is just can you just be in thepresent moment and take a deep
breath?
And like what part of you isscreaming right now?
(05:53):
What part of you needsattention?
And can you attend to that partthat's freaking the fuck out?
SPEAKER_00 (06:00):
Oh, yeah.
And it's that emotionalbypassing that we try to do.
We try to, we have the why, wehave the I know why this
happened.
I've opened up all the psychoedbooks, I have the training.
Yeah, then we're skipping thepart where we're like, oh, I
feel disappointed, I feelabandoned, I feel rejected.
SPEAKER_01 (06:18):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:18):
Sitting with that is a million times harder than
sitting with the why.
SPEAKER_01 (06:24):
Yeah.
Yeah, because we don't want toactually have to sit with the
feelings of abandonment,rejection, whatever it may be,
because oftentimes for a lot ofus, no one taught us how to do
that.
Right?
You know, no one showed us thatit's okay to feel abandoned,
(06:46):
like the feelings that comearound it.
It's okay to feel rejected andthat loneliness, despair, shame
that you're feeling.
I know you think it's theboogeyman, and we need to like
run from it, but it's actuallynot the boogeyman at all.
It's kind of just like thislittle thing hiding under the
bed that needs to beacknowledged and comforted.
SPEAKER_00 (07:11):
One of the more shameful feelings I feel like in
trauma healing, aside fromshame, is anger.
Because when you just spoke tonot learning how to process it,
especially in women, anger isseen as such an ugly trait.
I don't want to be angry.
I don't like how my anger comesout.
(07:32):
And I always tell people ninetimes out of ten, you have not
learned how to process anger.
You have not learned how toexpress anger.
As a result, the anger has comeout invalid, but maybe also some
maladaptive ways.
SPEAKER_01 (07:51):
A lot of people that I work with who have complex
PTSD anger at the beginning oftheir healing journey isn't even
an emotion that they feel.
Right?
Because they take theresponsibility for everything
and they blame themselves, andthat then there's the shame.
And actually, I can tell whenthey're healing when that anger
starts bubbling up, and thenthey're like, I don't know what
(08:13):
to do with it.
Society really doesn't let womenbe angry, it's not an
appropriate emotion.
And oftentimes when we've beenthrough trauma, we want to feel
in control, and anger is a bigemotion where we feel very out
of control.
SPEAKER_00 (08:33):
Oh, yeah.
And it gets labeled as bitchy,it gets getting labeled as, oh,
you're so mean.
Like, why are you yelling at me?
Oh, you're hysterical.
Like we have labeled andpathologized anger in women to
an extent where it is soshameful for women to say, I am
(08:54):
angry, because then theoftentimes perpetrator says, Oh,
you're overreacting.
Now the anger grows and theysuppress it.
Yeah, and now they're stuck withfeeling confused, and that's
where like I think thatquestioning of self-trust comes
(09:14):
in.
SPEAKER_01 (09:15):
Oh my gosh, the self-trust thing.
It's such a hard thing to dowhen you have.
Do you work a lot with complextrauma?
Yeah, I'm sure you see this alot in your clients.
It's just so hard to trustyourself.
You don't know what the baselineof self-trust even looks like.
SPEAKER_00 (09:36):
No, I I love working with the borderline population,
and they have such like aspecial place in my heart
because that is one of theprimary like populations where
their anger is quicklypathologized, it is quickly
dismissed because it is so hardfor someone to sit with, and
(09:59):
that's more so the clinician'sability to regulate, the ability
to be able to share that spacewith someone.
But nine times out of ten, theyhave not learned how to regulate
that anger, and nobody hasvalidated that anger because it
(10:19):
shows up and people back awayand then say, Whoa, you need to
tame that.
So, what if we just validated itfirst?
What if we said, you know what?
What you just experienced, whatyou have experienced, is
terrible, and you get to beangry.
We get so distracted by thepresentation of it that we
(10:43):
completely miss the meaningbehind it.
SPEAKER_01 (10:46):
Yeah.
I mean, I think it's like any ofthose really big emotions that
people display, it's appropriateto a certain extent.
But if we dial it up to level10, people are scared.
Right?
People don't know how to holdspace for that.
There's a lot of therapists thatif someone dialed it up to 10 in
a therapy session, they'd kindof just know how to handle this.
(11:10):
So when everyone around you islike scared of your own
emotions, you're kind of like,oh shit, like this emotion is so
dangerous, and I shouldn't befeeling this way.
So I need to dial it down.
Then what happens when you dialit down?
You still have all thoseemotions in you, and it has to
come out somehow.
So it comes out in thosemaladaptive behaviors or like
(11:31):
self-harm or bulsivity, suicidalideation, eating disorders,
right?
Like it comes out in those waysbecause we learned that feeling
the emotions we have to theextent that we feel is not safe,
it's not physically appropriate,and we want we just want to be
loved.
And so, in order to be loved, wedial it down.
SPEAKER_00 (11:53):
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (11:53):
We hide in shame.
SPEAKER_00 (11:56):
As we're talking about this, after someone has
experienced and allowedthemselves to experience the
range of emotion, I think one ofthe things that stumps us is
when we start to feel tired,when our body starts to crash
after processing trauma, and wego to therapy and say, I have no
(12:18):
idea why I'm tired.
It's like your nervous systemhas just processed, reprocessed
years of trauma, and it has gonethrough a wide range of emotions
on top of creating a barrier foryou to function throughout the
day, to do your work, to doday-to-day stuff and not get
(12:40):
lost in it.
Your body needs rest when it isprocessing complex trauma.
SPEAKER_01 (12:47):
Yeah, probably more rest than you think you need.
And so that's a very commonthing with EMDR.
Do you do EMDR or whatmodalities do you do?
SPEAKER_00 (12:57):
I don't do EMDR, but I do a lot of attachment-based
work.
SPEAKER_01 (13:00):
Cool, like internal family system, hence the name of
your podcast.
Um with EMDR, right?
That's very intense traumaprocessing.
And it's it's funny because Imight do 15 minutes with
someone, especially for theirfirst time doing it, just to
like dip their toes in thewater.
(13:21):
And if it's very interesting, Iwould say like nine times out of
ten, they come back the nextthing, they're like, I was just
exhausted the next like twodays.
Like what just happened?
And I'm like, your brain justworked a lot, and with EMDR
specifically, your nervoussystem in your brain is
(13:42):
continuing to reprocess what wedid in those 15 minutes for the
next couple hours, the nextcouple days, weeks, months,
however long it takes.
Like it's a continual thing, itdoesn't just stop at the end of
a session.
And so to your point, I think itmight be helpful for us to like
talk about what does rest evenmean?
(14:03):
So I think people just think itmeans you sit and hang out and
scroll on your phone and watchTV and write.
But that I don't really countthat as a form of rest.
What are your thoughts on that?
SPEAKER_00 (14:16):
Oh no, it certainly still keeps your brain active.
Doom scrolling is a numbingtactic, but it is not a restful
tactic.
I still feel, even when I findmyself doom scrolling,
overwhelmed, overstimulated.
I am, but I am trying to numb itby watching videos, scrolling on
(14:37):
social media, watching a comfortshow, which sometimes can like
just border something that youdon't have to pay attention to.
So, like one of my telltalesigns is if I'm watching a show
and I've let it run through andI have no idea what's happening,
I will typically now pause andbe like, okay, I need to pick a
different show that I need toengage in because I am not
(15:00):
allowing myself the space to bepresent in my rest.
SPEAKER_01 (15:07):
Yeah, I think kind of doom scrolling, watching TV,
whatever it may be for you is aform of dissociation.
Right.
And so when people think of liketrauma response, they think of
high anxiety, panic, freakout,right?
(15:27):
And yes, that is a traumaresponse, and that's the hyper
arousal piece of it.
But then we have the hypoarousal piece, which is the
trauma response in of itself,and that's like dissociation,
that's freezing.
And I think this this one isoverlooked because it's more
comfortable in a way, it's moresocially acceptable, you're not
(15:49):
creating a scene, right?
And so we get overstimulated byeverything in our life, and then
we go home and how do we rest?
Well, we're just gonna shutdown.
And I'm not saying dissociationis bad, by the way.
I think some people are likedissociating is bad.
I'm like, no, there it's aspectrum.
(16:09):
Like sometimes it is appropriateto dissociate.
However, if that's kind of yourbaseline when you're not at work
or when you're not engaging inrelationships, we gotta ask why.
What is so uncomfortable if youjust put down your phone and sat
with yourself for a minute?
SPEAKER_00 (16:25):
Yeah.
What are some ways you like torest?
SPEAKER_01 (16:28):
This definitely has taken years for me to get to,
just to throw this out there forpeople.
I have been consistentlymeditating at least like four or
five times a week now.
I joined this meditation centerand it's it's guided because if
it's not guided in my brain,it's gonna go all over the
(16:49):
place.
But it's I can do it online andI can show up in person, and
it's about an hour, the first 15minutes, like you're talking
about like a theme, and thenit's guided for like 40 minutes.
And if you were to tell me twoyears ago, I would be able to
sit through and do a 40-minutemeditation, I'd be like, ha,
like I can't even sit still.
(17:10):
Like a 10-minute meditation feltso uncomfortable.
Um, but I think doing that, I'venoticed my window of tolerance
has increased, my anxiety hasdecreased.
I'm less irritable at people.
Okay, like I notice when I'mmore sensitive and my more
trauma response y I'm moreirritable.
(17:33):
Like things that aren't a bigdeal, I get so mad at.
For instance, I have dogs andthey bark at other dogs when
we're on leash, and I'll leavemy house and I'll see another
someone walking their dog, andthen my dogs are barking.
And I get so mad at that otherperson.
Like, how dare you walk your dogright now?
Like, screw you.
Like, how dare you?
I'm like, damn, Hannah.
(17:54):
Like, they're allowed to walktheir dog.
This is a huge issue.
I find that when I'mconsistently meditating, I'm
able to regulate myself more.
And the points of regulation, Ialso just want to throw out
there, isn't that you feel niceand dandy and calm.
People think that's what itmeans to be within your window
of tolerance.
(18:14):
No, there are plenty of timeswhere I am on edge, I'm
irritable, I'm anxious, and I'mwithin my window of tolerance,
right?
Like I'm able to bring myselfback down.
I'm just closer to thatthreshold.
So I have to be mindful that I'mcloser to this threshold.
So I need to create moreboundaries of maybe what I take
(18:35):
on or the conversations I havethat day.
So for me, going back to thequestion, it's really
prioritizing meditating.
But I think if you're justgetting into it, don't bite off
more than you can chew.
I'm not saying go meditate fourto five times a week for 40
minutes each session becauseyou're not gonna sustain that.
(18:55):
It's can you pause when youdrink your coffee in the morning
instead of scrolling?
Can you put your phone down?
And can you just go through yourfive senses?
Honestly, like what do you see?
What does it feel like to holdthe coffee in your hand?
What does it taste like?
Is it hot?
Is it cold?
Almost like you're trying toexplain to an alien what a cup
of coffee is.
(19:16):
Um, really getting specific withthat.
And then cool, you can pick upyour phone and scroll.
But it's kind of slowly buildingthat habit of rest because
you're not going to be able todo it if you're just, I'm gonna
sit here for an hour.
Like your body, that's on toomuch for it.
Again, too much, too much.
SPEAKER_00 (19:35):
And then there's even like active forms of rest.
Like to your point, there a lotof people think of rest as
mindfulness and sitting down.
Walking can also be a form ofrest.
Do you walk without headphonesin?
Are you walking, even withoutwalking your dog?
Are you just allowing yourselfthe space to stroll through the
neighborhood?
(19:56):
Cooking for me has been a realform of rest and cooking, like
even baking.
So I've been really getting intobaking breads.
I have a sourdough starter thatI'm working on, like really just
getting into the mindfulness ofbaking.
I actually used to hate baking.
(20:17):
Why?
Because it took a long time,because I needed to pay
attention to my measurements,because it was such a process
that I didn't have time for.
Now I recognize the value inbeing able to slow down and be
able to create something reallyyummy that feels good, that
looks good, and giving myselfthat permission to slow down.
(20:41):
I don't need to be at a 10 allthe time.
It's not sustainable and it'snot realistic.
But the more that I've allowedmyself the space to bake and
even cooking most of what I eat,I haven't cooked like the last
couple of days just because Ihaven't had anything thawed, and
I feel drained from that becauseI have not allowed myself the
(21:05):
space to be creative in thatway, and I'm like feeling the
effects of it.
And so when we think about rest,thinking about what is going to
offer us a breath of fresh airin our healing journey?
What is going to allow us tomaintain that window of
(21:26):
tolerance or return to thatwindow of tolerance?
A lot of times when I'm havingmore of a stressful day or I
find myself more frustrated, Ifind myself more short-tempered.
I think, okay, you know what,Jasmine?
I'm gonna actually cooksomething.
I'll actually maybeintentionally choose to cook
something more elaborate so thatI have to be in the kitchen
(21:49):
longer, so that I am in theprocess of creating longer.
SPEAKER_01 (21:53):
Yeah.
It's about getting curious aboutwhat kind of fills your cup
specifically for you.
It's okay if you don't know.
You're not, to be frank, you'renot gonna know, especially if
you have complex PTSD.
If you've never even thoughtabout this, you're not going to
know because you're not aware.
Because you aren't payingattention.
(22:14):
So it's figuring out what feelsgood.
Like cooking and baking to me,that makes me more anxious.
Right?
Because it's just more much todo.
Vice versa, like the idea ofmeditating, you can be like,
yeah, fuck that.
Like that is not what I want todo.
I know for me, when I'm reallylike antsy and like ramped up,
(22:38):
sometimes just like talking to afriend about what's happening,
but then just about nothing andconnecting with them.
I get off that call and I feelkind of like this, just like
right, this breath of fresh airof okay, I'm okay.
Like, yes, this is going on, andit kind of snaps me back into
reality of this isn't the end ofthe world because that's kind of
(23:01):
my defense mechanisms.
I catastrophize and everything'slike so it's figuring out what
works for you specifically, andthat takes time.
And again, going back to thisconcept of like we don't need to
rush this, we don't need to rushhealing.
Actually, stop, stop rushinghealing.
(23:22):
Be present.
Oh no, I was gonna say, like, Ifeel like with healing, we I am
like this.
I'm like, I just need to befixed because once I'm fixed,
then I'll never have to feeldiscomfort again.
And I'm kind of unraveling that.
And I've been saying, like,okay, you're not like a broken
(23:43):
toaster that needs to be fixed,you're a human being, and your
job is to be.
We don't need to get to the endresult of fixed because
newsflash, you're never gonnafind that.
SPEAKER_00 (23:58):
And I always tell my clients that I'm working with is
it's not going to be just onething.
And so having a toolbox ofthings is wonderful, whether
that's if you find that cookingand meditating are working for
you, going for a walk.
If walking isn't working foryou, listening to music.
If listening to music isn'tworking for you, playing a game,
(24:20):
it's having multiple things toreach towards.
And to reiterate Hannah's point,it's going to take time.
It is going to take time to knowwhat works, to know what doesn't
work.
Something's gonna work, and thentwo years later, it's not going
to work, and that is not anyreflection of where you are on
(24:42):
your healing journey.
It just means you've got tochange up the the game plan a
little bit.
And that is not a reflection ofyou, that is not a failure, that
is just what it is.
It has taken so much time forpart of my own healing is being
able to take a nap withoutfeeling lazy.
SPEAKER_01 (25:04):
Mm-hmm.
And if you haven't noticedeverything that Jasmine and I
are talking about, they're notthese like big, huge,
complicated processes thatinvolve a lot of energy or
steps.
We automatically assume healinghas to be hard and has to be
(25:25):
complicated.
Break it down into the simplerthe better.
So if it's yeah, taking a walk,I know that kind of doesn't seem
like this big deal.
Like it sometimes I feel likepeople are like, I want to kill
myself, and you're just tellingme to take a walk, and I'm just
like, I'm not minimizing it.
That's a big feeling.
And something as simple as justgoing for a walk can sometimes
(25:49):
hit the reset button.
So when you're starting thisjourney, like the simpler the
better.
SPEAKER_00 (25:57):
Yeah.
One step at a time, one day at atime.
Yeah.
What is one piece of advice youwould offer to someone that is
on their healing journey andthey are feeling at a loss with
the tools that they have rightnow?
SPEAKER_01 (26:20):
That's a really good question.
That's a really good question.
I think I would get curiousabout their definition of what
is at a loss mean.
You know, it it might berealigning the expectations of
your coping skills, right?
If you're getting intomeditating or like baking or
(26:42):
something, and you're goingthrough a crisis and it's not
working, right?
It's oh yeah, you're goingthrough a crisis.
Like baking cookies is not goingto solve that.
And so we need to realign yourexpectations of the function of
your coping skills.
It's not so you feel betterevery time after you use them.
(27:06):
It's the way to support you.
And so let's just say yourdistress level is like a 10.
And if we can get it down tolike a nine, yeah, it's still
uncomfortable, but it's at anine instead of a 10.
And you know, we typically arelike it's at a 10 and we want it
to be a zero now.
And that's not gonna happenquickly.
(27:30):
And I also remind people whenthey're in crisis, it's
physiologically impossible foryour body to stay at that level
10.
It will down regulate, like ithas to, because that takes up so
much energy to be thatescalated.
So I think that's the firstthing I'd get curious about of
why, and then kind of evaluatewhat are your like one, what are
(27:56):
your coping skills and have theyever worked?
Or are you just kind of likechecking off the box of look, I
did this?
You know what I mean?
Figuring out that it's not akind of like you were saying,
it's not a one size fits all.
But I think the biggest thing iswith trauma, with anyone,
(28:18):
building a skill takes time, andthat includes building coping
skills.
So for instance, if you'reworking on deep breathing to
help regulate, it's really notfair to expect yourself to be
able to get calm when you have apanic attack the second time you
(28:39):
ever practice deep breathing.
Because if you think about it,you haven't developed that
neural pathway in your brain.
It's almost as if, Jasmine, I'mlike, you've never played the
game of basketball, and I tellyou how to play basketball, and
then I go throw you into an NBAgame.
Like, is that fair?
You would never that of someone.
(29:00):
And the same thing goes withthese coping skills.
This is a new thing.
Your brain is figuring out whatthis even is, and you're
expecting it to what calm calmyou down three times after you
practice deep breathing.
It's a consistent, it's aconsistency thing, it's a
consistent practice that youneed to be disciplined in.
And I would tell people, are youpracticing these coping skills
(29:22):
when you are regulated?
Because if you're just usingthem when you're at a level 10,
so we need to intervene whenyou're at like a level six or
seven.
Once you hit level 10, it'sriding that wave.
SPEAKER_00 (29:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:37):
You know, you need to like start when you're
feeling fine.
Right?
We're not gonna teach you how toplay basketball and be like,
okay, practice dribbling whileyou're playing in an NB game.
We're gonna show up when there'sno one else to see you dribble.
SPEAKER_00 (29:55):
You're gonna learn how to drive the car in the
empty parking lot of the movietheater.
That's closed.
We're not gonna ask you to go inthe interstate and learn how to
drive.
SPEAKER_01 (30:06):
Yeah, exactly.
Um, I'm gonna throw thatquestion back at you.
What do you do when clients kindof come to you just feeling like
nothing's working?
SPEAKER_00 (30:17):
Nothing's working.
Really sit.
I think I really sit with thatfirst and explore where they
feel like they should be.
What's that expectation they'reholding themselves at?
And bridge statement.
So, like is if you feel like afailure right now, it's
(30:40):
unrealistic sometimes to asksomeone and say, Oh, I feel
worthy and I feel smart and Ifeel capable.
What's the what is one step awayfrom feeling like a failure and
then working with thatstatement, placing one action
that can support you in thedirection that you want to go?
(31:01):
But I think a lot of times whatI see is that we have these
shoulds, we have theseexpectations that we've placed
on ourselves that have beenplaced on us by society, by the
people around us, from socialmedia, and we're holding
ourselves to a standard thatmight not be in alignment with
where we are or what we need.
And so exploring that andpeeling back that onion and
(31:25):
allowing the person to reallyexplore it from a place of
authenticity, fine can behelpful, it can be scary, but it
can be helpful.
SPEAKER_01 (31:34):
Yeah.
I think with that stuck place,too, that just is another
another level of discomfort thatwe feel like we need to run away
from.
You know, like I'm stuck, Ican't be stuck because it's not
safe to be stuck, and actuallyit is technically like I always
(31:55):
like to bring it back to thephysical.
Like, are you physically saferight now?
Is there a bear chasing you?
Are you living in the traumaticenvironment you were living in
before?
No, okay, so you're safe andyou're feeling stuck.
Like, I literally will pull up afeelings wheel and be like,
let's identify all the emotionsthat come along with stuck.
(32:18):
It's more than just I feelstuck.
There's probably frustration,there's probably overwhelm.
Um, there's probably a level ofshame that you can't move past
this, right?
And then have them do a bodyscan of just where is this
stuckness showing up in yourbody?
SPEAKER_02 (32:35):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (32:36):
Right.
And then what is that negativebelief that's coming along with
that stuckness?
Like it could be I'm a failure.
Should be over here with myhealing because I've spent all
this money and years in therapyand I'm only here.
Okay, I'm a failure.
And instead of trying to fix it,we sit with it.
And by sitting with that, Idon't mean let's psychoanalyze
(32:58):
it.
I mean, can we just notice thatplace in your body and take a
couple breaths?
unknown (33:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (33:04):
Without judgment.
And just notice does anythingshift?
No, okay, that's fine.
Like we're not we're removingexpectations here, we're just
being in that present moment andholding space for that part
that's stuck.
SPEAKER_00 (33:18):
Hannah, I have loved this conversation.
I think a lot of my listenerswill be able to resonate and
really just normalizing thathealing does not have to be
complicated, it does not have tobe expensive, it does not have
to be figured out in a day.
(33:43):
As a closing question to all ofmy guests, I am asking, what is
your commitment to yourself for2025?
SPEAKER_01 (33:53):
Hmm.
I mean, it just sums up thisconversation to slow down.
unknown (33:59):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (34:00):
Slow down with my healing, slow down with my
expectations of myself, bepresent, really be with those
parts of me that really want tospeed up and let them know it's
safe to slow down.
And there's no expectations ofthose parts.
Like we can just be.
Some days it's harder.
SPEAKER_00 (34:21):
That's healing.
That's truly it is an evolvingroller coaster that we're on,
and every day doesn't look thesame, but it doesn't mean you're
not making progress.
SPEAKER_01 (34:34):
Correct.
SPEAKER_00 (34:35):
Correct, correct.
I also realize it's halfwaythrough 2025.
So when is it appropriate tohave like have you met your
commitment for yourself for2025?
SPEAKER_01 (34:47):
To be frank, I I don't necessarily see things in
like year.
Like I'm kind of like, this isjust what I need right now.
In a couple months, it mightevolve into something else.
I don't know.
But I think it's something I'mproactively conscious of on a
daily basis of just slowingdown.
(35:08):
Um, we'll see what happens inthree months.
It might be the same thing, butyeah, that's okay.
SPEAKER_00 (35:14):
Hannah, thank you so much for joining me today.
SPEAKER_01 (35:18):
Of course.
Thank you so much for having meon.
Are you sitting with thousands of hours of B-roll
(00:02):
content and telling yourself,I'll start posting tomorrow?
Are you in your head worriedabout your friends and family
thinking your friends refusingto be visible?
Are you chasing trends insteadof building influence?
Welcome to the visibilitystandard, where the visionaries
of today are changing the rulesof their industries and letting
their voice be heard.
I'm your host, Jasmine, and weare studying together.
(00:30):
I am so excited for my guesttoday.
She is the owner of ReviveTherapy Services.
She is also the podcast host forTrauma Tea and Tangents.
I'm so excited to have you.
SPEAKER_01 (00:42):
Hi everyone.
It's so lovely to be on yourpodcast, Jasmine.
I've been seeing you on socialmedia and been watching your
clips, and I resonate with somuch of what you say.
And it's so down to earth andreal.
And I always vibe with that overjust like the fakeness of it
all.
But, anyways, my name is Hannah.
(01:03):
I have a practice located inPhiladelphia, and we specialize
in trauma and eating disorders.
We really work a lot with peoplewith complex PTSD, and we use
more bottom-up approaches likeEMDR somatic experiencing.
And I specifically am certifiedin EMDR.
(01:23):
I really like working withtrauma, complex trauma.
And I always am down to have aconversation about this work
that we do.
SPEAKER_00 (01:33):
Yes, I feel like trauma is such an evolving
conversation.
What is trauma?
How do we define it?
How do we experience it?
And I think what we are comingdown to is trauma is how you
respond.
And trauma is trapped into ourbodies.
(01:55):
Trauma is the impact that isleft on us.
And I love the concept that youpresented for what we discussed,
which is what happens whentrauma happens too fast, too
soon, and too often.
SPEAKER_01 (02:09):
I know you've probably touched on this, but I
think it's important to justremind people there's different
types of trauma.
Like we have our big tea traumaof just those things that people
normally consider as a traumaticevent, like that car accident,
domestic violence, abuse, andall of those are trauma.
But we oftentimes skip over thatwhat we call little tea trauma,
(02:34):
which is kind of just like yourday in and out experiences that
for some reason your nervoussystem isn't able to process it
in an adaptive way.
And so then that results in kindof like a block.
Then that's when trauma happens.
I recently, not recently, I wasworking with my own therapist
(02:57):
maybe earlier this year.
And I'm very much personallylike, okay, like let's just get
this shit done, right?
I'm like, I'm done with this.
I've been working on it forever,let's rip off the band-aid.
And she was the first one toever bring up this concept of
oftentimes something istraumatic because it happens too
(03:18):
soon, too much, too fast foryour nervous system to be able
to handle.
And so oftentimes, um,especially in Western cultures,
we just want that immediate fix.
So we try to heal trauma in thesame exact way, right?
Too much, too soon, too fast.
So we dive deep into intensetrauma work.
(03:40):
We sign up for all these likeself-help programs because we
just want it to be over with.
And what my therapist said atthe time was we need to do the
inverse of that, actually.
You know, we need to go actuallyprobably a little too slow and
underload ourselves with thethings that we need to heal.
SPEAKER_00 (04:02):
Yeah, I love that you say that as I'm thinking
about my own healing journey,especially with diving into
trauma and especially thoselittle tea traumas.
I think one thing that societypaired with our own protective
parts is that we can minimizethose little tea traumas and we
(04:23):
can tell ourselves wasn't thatbig of a deal in comparison to
big T trauma.
Like I'm standing tall, andevery time we invalidate that
part of ourselves, we arereinforcing the trauma A, and
it's going to be much harder toaccess later on in therapy.
So as I've been working with myown therapist, I recognize like
(04:46):
I'll talk about something, andthen there's this block that
comes up, and I'm like, no, Ijust want to work through it, I
want to figure it out.
And then there's that protectivepart that's like actually, this
is gonna be really hard for youto process.
Like, I know you haveintellectualized it, you you
have figured it out, but this isactually gonna hurt.
SPEAKER_01 (05:09):
Intellectualizing, you know, as therapists, we're
just I don't know if youapproach it, I'm like, yeah, I
already know everything.
And because I know everything,which is not true, everyone, I
do not know everything, but Ifeel like how I've adapted to
work through my own trauma isjust to really understand the
why and psychoanalyze myself,which there's a benefit to that.
(05:33):
There's nothing wrong with that,and it doesn't actually help me
process the trauma, it justreally throws gas on the fire
when I actually need to justlike pause and instead of trying
to figure out the why and how amI gonna handle this situation?
Is just can you just be in thepresent moment and take a deep
breath?
And like what part of you isscreaming right now?
(05:53):
What part of you needsattention?
And can you attend to that partthat's freaking the fuck out?
SPEAKER_00 (06:00):
Oh, yeah.
And it's that emotionalbypassing that we try to do.
We try to, we have the why, wehave the I know why this
happened.
I've opened up all the psychoedbooks, I have the training.
Yeah, then we're skipping thepart where we're like, oh, I
feel disappointed, I feelabandoned, I feel rejected.
SPEAKER_01 (06:18):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:18):
Sitting with that is a million times harder than
sitting with the why.
SPEAKER_01 (06:24):
Yeah.
Yeah, because we don't want toactually have to sit with the
feelings of abandonment,rejection, whatever it may be,
because oftentimes for a lot ofus, no one taught us how to do
that.
Right?
You know, no one showed us thatit's okay to feel abandoned,
(06:46):
like the feelings that comearound it.
It's okay to feel rejected andthat loneliness, despair, shame
that you're feeling.
I know you think it's theboogeyman, and we need to like
run from it, but it's actuallynot the boogeyman at all.
It's kind of just like thislittle thing hiding under the
bed that needs to beacknowledged and comforted.
SPEAKER_00 (07:11):
One of the more shameful feelings I feel like in
trauma healing, aside fromshame, is anger.
Because when you just spoke tonot learning how to process it,
especially in women, anger isseen as such an ugly trait.
I don't want to be angry.
I don't like how my anger comesout.
(07:32):
And I always tell people ninetimes out of ten, you have not
learned how to process anger.
You have not learned how toexpress anger.
As a result, the anger has comeout invalid, but maybe also some
maladaptive ways.
SPEAKER_01 (07:51):
A lot of people that I work with who have complex
PTSD anger at the beginning oftheir healing journey isn't even
an emotion that they feel.
Right?
Because they take theresponsibility for everything
and they blame themselves, andthat then there's the shame.
And actually, I can tell whenthey're healing when that anger
starts bubbling up, and thenthey're like, I don't know what
(08:13):
to do with it.
Society really doesn't let womenbe angry, it's not an
appropriate emotion.
And oftentimes when we've beenthrough trauma, we want to feel
in control, and anger is a bigemotion where we feel very out
of control.
SPEAKER_00 (08:33):
Oh, yeah.
And it gets labeled as bitchy,it gets getting labeled as, oh,
you're so mean.
Like, why are you yelling at me?
Oh, you're hysterical.
Like we have labeled andpathologized anger in women to
an extent where it is soshameful for women to say, I am
(08:54):
angry, because then theoftentimes perpetrator says, Oh,
you're overreacting.
Now the anger grows and theysuppress it.
Yeah, and now they're stuck withfeeling confused, and that's
where like I think thatquestioning of self-trust comes
(09:14):
in.
SPEAKER_01 (09:15):
Oh my gosh, the self-trust thing.
It's such a hard thing to dowhen you have.
Do you work a lot with complextrauma?
Yeah, I'm sure you see this alot in your clients.
It's just so hard to trustyourself.
You don't know what the baselineof self-trust even looks like.
SPEAKER_00 (09:36):
No, I I love working with the borderline population,
and they have such like aspecial place in my heart
because that is one of theprimary like populations where
their anger is quicklypathologized, it is quickly
dismissed because it is so hardfor someone to sit with, and
(09:59):
that's more so the clinician'sability to regulate, the ability
to be able to share that spacewith someone.
But nine times out of ten, theyhave not learned how to regulate
that anger, and nobody hasvalidated that anger because it
(10:19):
shows up and people back awayand then say, Whoa, you need to
tame that.
So, what if we just validated itfirst?
What if we said, you know what?
What you just experienced, whatyou have experienced, is
terrible, and you get to beangry.
We get so distracted by thepresentation of it that we
(10:43):
completely miss the meaningbehind it.
SPEAKER_01 (10:46):
Yeah.
I mean, I think it's like any ofthose really big emotions that
people display, it's appropriateto a certain extent.
But if we dial it up to level10, people are scared.
Right?
People don't know how to holdspace for that.
There's a lot of therapists thatif someone dialed it up to 10 in
a therapy session, they'd kindof just know how to handle this.
(11:10):
So when everyone around you islike scared of your own
emotions, you're kind of like,oh shit, like this emotion is so
dangerous, and I shouldn't befeeling this way.
So I need to dial it down.
Then what happens when you dialit down?
You still have all thoseemotions in you, and it has to
come out somehow.
So it comes out in thosemaladaptive behaviors or like
(11:31):
self-harm or bulsivity, suicidalideation, eating disorders,
right?
Like it comes out in those waysbecause we learned that feeling
the emotions we have to theextent that we feel is not safe,
it's not physically appropriate,and we want we just want to be
loved.
And so, in order to be loved, wedial it down.
SPEAKER_00 (11:53):
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (11:53):
We hide in shame.
SPEAKER_00 (11:56):
As we're talking about this, after someone has
experienced and allowedthemselves to experience the
range of emotion, I think one ofthe things that stumps us is
when we start to feel tired,when our body starts to crash
after processing trauma, and wego to therapy and say, I have no
(12:18):
idea why I'm tired.
It's like your nervous systemhas just processed, reprocessed
years of trauma, and it has gonethrough a wide range of emotions
on top of creating a barrier foryou to function throughout the
day, to do your work, to doday-to-day stuff and not get
(12:40):
lost in it.
Your body needs rest when it isprocessing complex trauma.
SPEAKER_01 (12:47):
Yeah, probably more rest than you think you need.
And so that's a very commonthing with EMDR.
Do you do EMDR or whatmodalities do you do?
SPEAKER_00 (12:57):
I don't do EMDR, but I do a lot of attachment-based
work.
SPEAKER_01 (13:00):
Cool, like internal family system, hence the name of
your podcast.
Um with EMDR, right?
That's very intense traumaprocessing.
And it's it's funny because Imight do 15 minutes with
someone, especially for theirfirst time doing it, just to
like dip their toes in thewater.
(13:21):
And if it's very interesting, Iwould say like nine times out of
ten, they come back the nextthing, they're like, I was just
exhausted the next like twodays.
Like what just happened?
And I'm like, your brain justworked a lot, and with EMDR
specifically, your nervoussystem in your brain is
(13:42):
continuing to reprocess what wedid in those 15 minutes for the
next couple hours, the nextcouple days, weeks, months,
however long it takes.
Like it's a continual thing, itdoesn't just stop at the end of
a session.
And so to your point, I think itmight be helpful for us to like
talk about what does rest evenmean?
(14:03):
So I think people just think itmeans you sit and hang out and
scroll on your phone and watchTV and write.
But that I don't really countthat as a form of rest.
What are your thoughts on that?
SPEAKER_00 (14:16):
Oh no, it certainly still keeps your brain active.
Doom scrolling is a numbingtactic, but it is not a restful
tactic.
I still feel, even when I findmyself doom scrolling,
overwhelmed, overstimulated.
I am, but I am trying to numb itby watching videos, scrolling on
(14:37):
social media, watching a comfortshow, which sometimes can like
just border something that youdon't have to pay attention to.
So, like one of my telltalesigns is if I'm watching a show
and I've let it run through andI have no idea what's happening,
I will typically now pause andbe like, okay, I need to pick a
different show that I need toengage in because I am not
(15:00):
allowing myself the space to bepresent in my rest.
SPEAKER_01 (15:07):
Yeah, I think kind of doom scrolling, watching TV,
whatever it may be for you is aform of dissociation.
Right.
And so when people think of liketrauma response, they think of
high anxiety, panic, freakout,right?
(15:27):
And yes, that is a traumaresponse, and that's the hyper
arousal piece of it.
But then we have the hypoarousal piece, which is the
trauma response in of itself,and that's like dissociation,
that's freezing.
And I think this this one isoverlooked because it's more
comfortable in a way, it's moresocially acceptable, you're not
(15:49):
creating a scene, right?
And so we get overstimulated byeverything in our life, and then
we go home and how do we rest?
Well, we're just gonna shutdown.
And I'm not saying dissociationis bad, by the way.
I think some people are likedissociating is bad.
I'm like, no, there it's aspectrum.
(16:09):
Like sometimes it is appropriateto dissociate.
However, if that's kind of yourbaseline when you're not at work
or when you're not engaging inrelationships, we gotta ask why.
What is so uncomfortable if youjust put down your phone and sat
with yourself for a minute?
SPEAKER_00 (16:25):
Yeah.
What are some ways you like torest?
SPEAKER_01 (16:28):
This definitely has taken years for me to get to,
just to throw this out there forpeople.
I have been consistentlymeditating at least like four or
five times a week now.
I joined this meditation centerand it's it's guided because if
it's not guided in my brain,it's gonna go all over the
(16:49):
place.
But it's I can do it online andI can show up in person, and
it's about an hour, the first 15minutes, like you're talking
about like a theme, and thenit's guided for like 40 minutes.
And if you were to tell me twoyears ago, I would be able to
sit through and do a 40-minutemeditation, I'd be like, ha,
like I can't even sit still.
(17:10):
Like a 10-minute meditation feltso uncomfortable.
Um, but I think doing that, I'venoticed my window of tolerance
has increased, my anxiety hasdecreased.
I'm less irritable at people.
Okay, like I notice when I'mmore sensitive and my more
trauma response y I'm moreirritable.
(17:33):
Like things that aren't a bigdeal, I get so mad at.
For instance, I have dogs andthey bark at other dogs when
we're on leash, and I'll leavemy house and I'll see another
someone walking their dog, andthen my dogs are barking.
And I get so mad at that otherperson.
Like, how dare you walk your dogright now?
Like, screw you.
Like, how dare you?
I'm like, damn, Hannah.
(17:54):
Like, they're allowed to walktheir dog.
This is a huge issue.
I find that when I'mconsistently meditating, I'm
able to regulate myself more.
And the points of regulation, Ialso just want to throw out
there, isn't that you feel niceand dandy and calm.
People think that's what itmeans to be within your window
of tolerance.
(18:14):
No, there are plenty of timeswhere I am on edge, I'm
irritable, I'm anxious, and I'mwithin my window of tolerance,
right?
Like I'm able to bring myselfback down.
I'm just closer to thatthreshold.
So I have to be mindful that I'mcloser to this threshold.
So I need to create moreboundaries of maybe what I take
(18:35):
on or the conversations I havethat day.
So for me, going back to thequestion, it's really
prioritizing meditating.
But I think if you're justgetting into it, don't bite off
more than you can chew.
I'm not saying go meditate fourto five times a week for 40
minutes each session becauseyou're not gonna sustain that.
(18:55):
It's can you pause when youdrink your coffee in the morning
instead of scrolling?
Can you put your phone down?
And can you just go through yourfive senses?
Honestly, like what do you see?
What does it feel like to holdthe coffee in your hand?
What does it taste like?
Is it hot?
Is it cold?
Almost like you're trying toexplain to an alien what a cup
of coffee is.
(19:16):
Um, really getting specific withthat.
And then cool, you can pick upyour phone and scroll.
But it's kind of slowly buildingthat habit of rest because
you're not going to be able todo it if you're just, I'm gonna
sit here for an hour.
Like your body, that's on toomuch for it.
Again, too much, too much.
SPEAKER_00 (19:35):
And then there's even like active forms of rest.
Like to your point, there a lotof people think of rest as
mindfulness and sitting down.
Walking can also be a form ofrest.
Do you walk without headphonesin?
Are you walking, even withoutwalking your dog?
Are you just allowing yourselfthe space to stroll through the
neighborhood?
(19:56):
Cooking for me has been a realform of rest and cooking, like
even baking.
So I've been really getting intobaking breads.
I have a sourdough starter thatI'm working on, like really just
getting into the mindfulness ofbaking.
I actually used to hate baking.
(20:17):
Why?
Because it took a long time,because I needed to pay
attention to my measurements,because it was such a process
that I didn't have time for.
Now I recognize the value inbeing able to slow down and be
able to create something reallyyummy that feels good, that
looks good, and giving myselfthat permission to slow down.
(20:41):
I don't need to be at a 10 allthe time.
It's not sustainable and it'snot realistic.
But the more that I've allowedmyself the space to bake and
even cooking most of what I eat,I haven't cooked like the last
couple of days just because Ihaven't had anything thawed, and
I feel drained from that becauseI have not allowed myself the
(21:05):
space to be creative in thatway, and I'm like feeling the
effects of it.
And so when we think about rest,thinking about what is going to
offer us a breath of fresh airin our healing journey?
What is going to allow us tomaintain that window of
(21:26):
tolerance or return to thatwindow of tolerance?
A lot of times when I'm havingmore of a stressful day or I
find myself more frustrated, Ifind myself more short-tempered.
I think, okay, you know what,Jasmine?
I'm gonna actually cooksomething.
I'll actually maybeintentionally choose to cook
something more elaborate so thatI have to be in the kitchen
(21:49):
longer, so that I am in theprocess of creating longer.
SPEAKER_01 (21:53):
Yeah.
It's about getting curious aboutwhat kind of fills your cup
specifically for you.
It's okay if you don't know.
You're not, to be frank, you'renot gonna know, especially if
you have complex PTSD.
If you've never even thoughtabout this, you're not going to
know because you're not aware.
Because you aren't payingattention.
(22:14):
So it's figuring out what feelsgood.
Like cooking and baking to me,that makes me more anxious.
Right?
Because it's just more much todo.
Vice versa, like the idea ofmeditating, you can be like,
yeah, fuck that.
Like that is not what I want todo.
I know for me, when I'm reallylike antsy and like ramped up,
(22:38):
sometimes just like talking to afriend about what's happening,
but then just about nothing andconnecting with them.
I get off that call and I feelkind of like this, just like
right, this breath of fresh airof okay, I'm okay.
Like, yes, this is going on, andit kind of snaps me back into
reality of this isn't the end ofthe world because that's kind of
(23:01):
my defense mechanisms.
I catastrophize and everything'slike so it's figuring out what
works for you specifically, andthat takes time.
And again, going back to thisconcept of like we don't need to
rush this, we don't need to rushhealing.
Actually, stop, stop rushinghealing.
(23:22):
Be present.
Oh no, I was gonna say, like, Ifeel like with healing, we I am
like this.
I'm like, I just need to befixed because once I'm fixed,
then I'll never have to feeldiscomfort again.
And I'm kind of unraveling that.
And I've been saying, like,okay, you're not like a broken
(23:43):
toaster that needs to be fixed,you're a human being, and your
job is to be.
We don't need to get to the endresult of fixed because
newsflash, you're never gonnafind that.
SPEAKER_00 (23:58):
And I always tell my clients that I'm working with is
it's not going to be just onething.
And so having a toolbox ofthings is wonderful, whether
that's if you find that cookingand meditating are working for
you, going for a walk.
If walking isn't working foryou, listening to music.
If listening to music isn'tworking for you, playing a game,
(24:20):
it's having multiple things toreach towards.
And to reiterate Hannah's point,it's going to take time.
It is going to take time to knowwhat works, to know what doesn't
work.
Something's gonna work, and thentwo years later, it's not going
to work, and that is not anyreflection of where you are on
(24:42):
your healing journey.
It just means you've got tochange up the the game plan a
little bit.
And that is not a reflection ofyou, that is not a failure, that
is just what it is.
It has taken so much time forpart of my own healing is being
able to take a nap withoutfeeling lazy.
SPEAKER_01 (25:04):
Mm-hmm.
And if you haven't noticedeverything that Jasmine and I
are talking about, they're notthese like big, huge,
complicated processes thatinvolve a lot of energy or
steps.
We automatically assume healinghas to be hard and has to be
(25:25):
complicated.
Break it down into the simplerthe better.
So if it's yeah, taking a walk,I know that kind of doesn't seem
like this big deal.
Like it sometimes I feel likepeople are like, I want to kill
myself, and you're just tellingme to take a walk, and I'm just
like, I'm not minimizing it.
That's a big feeling.
And something as simple as justgoing for a walk can sometimes
(25:49):
hit the reset button.
So when you're starting thisjourney, like the simpler the
better.
SPEAKER_00 (25:57):
Yeah.
One step at a time, one day at atime.
Yeah.
What is one piece of advice youwould offer to someone that is
on their healing journey andthey are feeling at a loss with
the tools that they have rightnow?
SPEAKER_01 (26:20):
That's a really good question.
That's a really good question.
I think I would get curiousabout their definition of what
is at a loss mean.
You know, it it might berealigning the expectations of
your coping skills, right?
If you're getting intomeditating or like baking or
(26:42):
something, and you're goingthrough a crisis and it's not
working, right?
It's oh yeah, you're goingthrough a crisis.
Like baking cookies is not goingto solve that.
And so we need to realign yourexpectations of the function of
your coping skills.
It's not so you feel betterevery time after you use them.
(27:06):
It's the way to support you.
And so let's just say yourdistress level is like a 10.
And if we can get it down tolike a nine, yeah, it's still
uncomfortable, but it's at anine instead of a 10.
And you know, we typically arelike it's at a 10 and we want it
to be a zero now.
And that's not gonna happenquickly.
(27:30):
And I also remind people whenthey're in crisis, it's
physiologically impossible foryour body to stay at that level
10.
It will down regulate, like ithas to, because that takes up so
much energy to be thatescalated.
So I think that's the firstthing I'd get curious about of
why, and then kind of evaluatewhat are your like one, what are
(27:56):
your coping skills and have theyever worked?
Or are you just kind of likechecking off the box of look, I
did this?
You know what I mean?
Figuring out that it's not akind of like you were saying,
it's not a one size fits all.
But I think the biggest thing iswith trauma, with anyone,
(28:18):
building a skill takes time, andthat includes building coping
skills.
So for instance, if you'reworking on deep breathing to
help regulate, it's really notfair to expect yourself to be
able to get calm when you have apanic attack the second time you
(28:39):
ever practice deep breathing.
Because if you think about it,you haven't developed that
neural pathway in your brain.
It's almost as if, Jasmine, I'mlike, you've never played the
game of basketball, and I tellyou how to play basketball, and
then I go throw you into an NBAgame.
Like, is that fair?
You would never that of someone.
(29:00):
And the same thing goes withthese coping skills.
This is a new thing.
Your brain is figuring out whatthis even is, and you're
expecting it to what calm calmyou down three times after you
practice deep breathing.
It's a consistent, it's aconsistency thing, it's a
consistent practice that youneed to be disciplined in.
And I would tell people, are youpracticing these coping skills
(29:22):
when you are regulated?
Because if you're just usingthem when you're at a level 10,
so we need to intervene whenyou're at like a level six or
seven.
Once you hit level 10, it'sriding that wave.
SPEAKER_00 (29:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:37):
You know, you need to like start when you're
feeling fine.
Right?
We're not gonna teach you how toplay basketball and be like,
okay, practice dribbling whileyou're playing in an NB game.
We're gonna show up when there'sno one else to see you dribble.
SPEAKER_00 (29:55):
You're gonna learn how to drive the car in the
empty parking lot of the movietheater.
That's closed.
We're not gonna ask you to go inthe interstate and learn how to
drive.
SPEAKER_01 (30:06):
Yeah, exactly.
Um, I'm gonna throw thatquestion back at you.
What do you do when clients kindof come to you just feeling like
nothing's working?
SPEAKER_00 (30:17):
Nothing's working.
Really sit.
I think I really sit with thatfirst and explore where they
feel like they should be.
What's that expectation they'reholding themselves at?
And bridge statement.
So, like is if you feel like afailure right now, it's
(30:40):
unrealistic sometimes to asksomeone and say, Oh, I feel
worthy and I feel smart and Ifeel capable.
What's the what is one step awayfrom feeling like a failure and
then working with thatstatement, placing one action
that can support you in thedirection that you want to go?
(31:01):
But I think a lot of times whatI see is that we have these
shoulds, we have theseexpectations that we've placed
on ourselves that have beenplaced on us by society, by the
people around us, from socialmedia, and we're holding
ourselves to a standard thatmight not be in alignment with
where we are or what we need.
And so exploring that andpeeling back that onion and
(31:25):
allowing the person to reallyexplore it from a place of
authenticity, fine can behelpful, it can be scary, but it
can be helpful.
SPEAKER_01 (31:34):
Yeah.
I think with that stuck place,too, that just is another
another level of discomfort thatwe feel like we need to run away
from.
You know, like I'm stuck, Ican't be stuck because it's not
safe to be stuck, and actuallyit is technically like I always
(31:55):
like to bring it back to thephysical.
Like, are you physically saferight now?
Is there a bear chasing you?
Are you living in the traumaticenvironment you were living in
before?
No, okay, so you're safe andyou're feeling stuck.
Like, I literally will pull up afeelings wheel and be like,
let's identify all the emotionsthat come along with stuck.
(32:18):
It's more than just I feelstuck.
There's probably frustration,there's probably overwhelm.
Um, there's probably a level ofshame that you can't move past
this, right?
And then have them do a bodyscan of just where is this
stuckness showing up in yourbody?
SPEAKER_02 (32:35):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (32:36):
Right.
And then what is that negativebelief that's coming along with
that stuckness?
Like it could be I'm a failure.
Should be over here with myhealing because I've spent all
this money and years in therapyand I'm only here.
Okay, I'm a failure.
And instead of trying to fix it,we sit with it.
And by sitting with that, Idon't mean let's psychoanalyze
(32:58):
it.
I mean, can we just notice thatplace in your body and take a
couple breaths?
unknown (33:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (33:04):
Without judgment.
And just notice does anythingshift?
No, okay, that's fine.
Like we're not we're removingexpectations here, we're just
being in that present moment andholding space for that part
that's stuck.
SPEAKER_00 (33:18):
Hannah, I have loved this conversation.
I think a lot of my listenerswill be able to resonate and
really just normalizing thathealing does not have to be
complicated, it does not have tobe expensive, it does not have
to be figured out in a day.
(33:43):
As a closing question to all ofmy guests, I am asking, what is
your commitment to yourself for2025?
SPEAKER_01 (33:53):
Hmm.
I mean, it just sums up thisconversation to slow down.
unknown (33:59):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (34:00):
Slow down with my healing, slow down with my
expectations of myself, bepresent, really be with those
parts of me that really want tospeed up and let them know it's
safe to slow down.
And there's no expectations ofthose parts.
Like we can just be.
Some days it's harder.
SPEAKER_00 (34:21):
That's healing.
That's truly it is an evolvingroller coaster that we're on,
and every day doesn't look thesame, but it doesn't mean you're
not making progress.
SPEAKER_01 (34:34):
Correct.
SPEAKER_00 (34:35):
Correct, correct.
I also realize it's halfwaythrough 2025.
So when is it appropriate tohave like have you met your
commitment for yourself for2025?
SPEAKER_01 (34:47):
To be frank, I I don't necessarily see things in
like year.
Like I'm kind of like, this isjust what I need right now.
In a couple months, it mightevolve into something else.
I don't know.
But I think it's something I'mproactively conscious of on a
daily basis of just slowingdown.
(35:08):
Um, we'll see what happens inthree months.
It might be the same thing, butyeah, that's okay.
SPEAKER_00 (35:14):
Hannah, thank you so much for joining me today.
SPEAKER_01 (35:18):
Of course.
Thank you so much for having meon.
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