Navigating Emotional Art and Filmmaking: A Conversation with Destyn, Creator of 'A Part of You'

Prepare yourself for a heartwarming journey through the emotions of personal storytelling and artistic filmmaking. We sit down with Destyn, a director, writer, and storyteller, whose recent short film, 'A Part of You / Made Me Whole,' has been stealing hearts at film festivals. Inspired by his experience of receiving a kidney transplant from his mother, Destyn delves into the depth of emotions, the boundless transcendence of unconditional love, and the power of personal storytelling, to craft a narrative that is as captivating as it is poignant.

We explore the creative process, the filmmaker's tools, and the unique techniques that bring this tale to life. Co-director Andrew Wonder lends his expertise, experimenting with unusual filming techniques to create distinctive shots and scenes. From the influence of Godard to capturing the raw emotions through the lens, this episode offers a fascinating insight into the nuances of filmmaking. We also delve into the love, selflessness, and connection that forms the core of Destyn's story, a testament to his mother's unconditional love and the profound bond they share.

In the final part of our conversation, Destyn draws parallels between his sports background and filmmaking, shedding light on how discipline, determination, and resilience can fuel creativity. We also examine Destyn's eclectic influences, ranging from the sensitivity of Wong Kar-Wai to the distinctive style of Quentin Tarantino. This episode is more than just an exploration of filmmaking - it's a celebration of emotional art, a testament to the power of personal storytelling, and a discourse on unconditional love, emotions, acceptance, and self-reflection. Get ready to be inspired, moved, and captivated by Destyn's extraordinary journey and his heartfelt masterpiece, 'A Part of You / Made Me Whole.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey everyone, welcome to the Vision Maker podcast.
Today we have a great guestwith us.
We have a director, writer andjust all around storyteller by
heart, destin.
Hey, destin, would you like tointroduce yourself?
Give a little bit of yourbackground to our audience.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Absolutely.
First, I want to say thank youfor having me on.
It's such an honor to be onthis podcast with you.
My name is Destin Fuller Hope.
I'm a director writer.
I am initially from Brooklyn,New York, Ground Heights, so in
New York or by heart, I'm astoryteller by heart as well.
The medium I just happened tochoose is filmmaking.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
Amazing.
Of course we all relate here,as we've done very similar.
You have a very excitingfestival run going on right now
for a very personal film ofyours called A Part of you,
correct?
Yes, I've already seen that youguys got accepted to four

(00:59):
festivals, am I correct?
Five, five now I know of LowerEast Side, tallgrass, new Face
and Brand Film.
What's the fifth one?

Speaker 2 (01:12):
We were in the Walla Walla Crush Festival in
Washington about a month and ahalf ago.
Two months ago we didn't end upgoing to that one, but it did
screen there.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
Amazing, amazing.
I remember in the beginning ofmy career we also had one of the
first things we did was afestival run for a film that we
did for a good friend, directorof mine.
I got to say, for those of whohaven't seen the short film yet,
it's unique, it's heartfelt, ithas a very deep narrative but

(01:47):
it's very artistic.
I love the stuff you're doingwith the RQ.
Can you tell me a little bit inour audience about how this
came to fruition?
I know a little bit, but Ithink it would be best to hear
from you about how this came tofruition and really what the
driving motivation behind thiswas.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
Absolutely.
I'm happy to answer that.
I actually love that question,the whole point of making this
film.
A little backstory I got akidney transplant from my mother
almost four years ago.
This November 14th will makefour years.
After I got that transplant fromher, I felt incredibly guilty.

(02:27):
I felt as if I had takensomething from her versus her
giving it to me.
It just didn't really sit rightwith me that she had literally
taken a piece of her flesh andgiven it to me.
I just felt like this act thatcould never really be repaid and
you really can't put a price onan act of love.
It's priceless.
I said I want to make this filmabout it.

(02:50):
I just think to get it off ofmy chest.
I was speaking with this to mygood friend, Andrew Wonder, who
co-directed the film with me.
He also shot it and we editedit together.
He said you should hurry up andmake that.
That's very powerful.
I've been talking to him aboutit for a while.
I was going to do somethingvery different with it.
He suggested we just take it adifferent path.

(03:10):
He goes I'll shoot it.
We'll shoot it in your familyhome.
We'll do it in two weeks.
He started asking me thesepenetrating questions, which
were all the questions I did notwant to answer.
I was avoiding all my feelings,all these feelings of guilt
that I thought were guilt,because they're just hard to
look in the eye.
Sometimes, when you make art,the thing you want to talk about

(03:33):
comes from a place of fear.
Naturally, we're avoided whenit comes to that sort of feeling
.
As I learned through Andrew,sometimes you have to sit in
that fear.
You just have to really juststay there and look your
feelings in the eye and write.
I wrote it and I free wrote forI think maybe 30 minutes, I
don't even think maybe a fullhour.
The whole film just spilled out.

(03:55):
I've been feeling the last fouryears just spill onto the paper
.
He goes that's it, that's ourfilm, Don't change a thing.
We shot it here in my familyhome two weeks afterward.
We shot it in one day with hisfiancee Colleen Dodge, who was
our producer, also anup-and-coming director, and our
good friend Calvin, who was ourB-cam.

(04:16):
It was just a four-person crew.
We shot with four people and myfamily's in it.
I'm in it.
Actually, In post we had ourfriend Max Phillips do the sound
design.
That was the whole thing.
The whole point was just as athank you to my mother.
That was how that film cameabout.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
I think that's so beautiful because I think that
is like you said the biggeststruggle is to process these
deep emotions for most people.
You're not only, like you said,faced it in the eye.
You went through the process ofprocessing it, but you created

(04:57):
into a beautiful art.
Sometimes, the most beautifulpieces of art come from
processing emotion, processingraw emotion onto a medium.
I think that really shinesthrough.
Especially, you put yourselflike, yes, you said you're in
the film, but you are the maincharacter in the film.
You're not only the voice, butyou are the character that we

(05:18):
follow throughout this film.
How was that process Becausethat must have been another
layer of that putting yourselfthrough those emotions, acting
out the words that you're saying.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?
Because, as the story isalready personal to you, writing
it, then you did the voiceoverand now you're acting these

(05:41):
scenes out.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
It was terrifying, definitely terrifying.
Here I am in my family homewith two good friends who I feel
very safe in front of AndrewColleen and, of course, calvin.
Now I have to go back to theseplaces where I was incredibly
ill and just having the worstthoughts and then going let's
act it out one more time.

(06:06):
I was afraid to do it.
Fortunately, andrew AndrewWunder, my co-director he was
the one that would just reassureme you're doing great.
Because he knows how scared Iwas.
I've spoken to him about thiswithout the context of a film,
just life talks and how it'saffected me.
He already knew.

(06:27):
He was already familiar withthe story and the struggle of
having a kidney transplant andbeing on dialysis and what I was
feeling at the time.
I just trusted him to shoot andcapture what it is I was
supposed to be feeling.
As a director, you want to gocheck the monitor and make sure

(06:47):
everything's right, but youcan't be here and there.
You just have to trust thepeople you're doing it with.
He would tell me we would showmy surgical scars, which I was
just deathly afraid of doingbecause it's like first I have
to write all this, then I haveto go show it on camera in two
weeks and it's just veryemotionally taxing.
It took a lot of energy,emotionally energy.

(07:11):
By the end of the day I wasexhausted, not physically, just
from going through the motions.
Andrew made me feel incrediblysafe on camera and speaking and
acting about the things that Ihad avoided for so long.

Speaker 1 (07:28):
Sounds like you had a really powerful support system
there with your team.
Oh yeah, yep, absolutely, whichis necessary.
I think we need that in allaspects of life.
I 100% understand.
When you're directing, whenyou're leading a project, your
brain is fragmenting into everyposition, every job, everything

(07:48):
that's possible could behappening around you, acting for
sure.
It's one of those things whereyou got to like, you know, come
back, yes, just to insulateyourself from everything else.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
There are moments where I just had to ignore the
monitor, ignore the camera.
Go, andrew's got this.
I know he's got this.
I know Calvin, our B cam hasgot this.
I just need to be in the momentand Andrew allowed me to be in
the moment and bring my bestself to that role, this very
real life role, while he tookcare of everything else for all

(08:20):
the moments that I was on cameraand there are certain moments
that weren't as emotionallytaxing, or I could be in front
of the camera and then watch thetake and then go back, and
we'll do it again.
We collaborate, but mostly itwas really just trusting Andrew
to capture what we had chattedabout before even shooting it.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
And what was I heard you just say before that you had
to show it in two weeks.
What was the timeline offilming?

Speaker 2 (08:43):
Oh man, it happened so fast.
The whole thing took a month.
The whole thing.
I wrote it in an hour.
We shot it two weeks later, inone day.
We Andrew went on vacation, hewent somewhere.
I think I remember his vacation.
He was gone.
I was doing some editing whilehe was gone.

(09:04):
He came back.
We decided to collaborate onthe edit together and we
finished it that night.
That's the way to do it.
It really felt like just atotal of three days, like three
working days.

Speaker 1 (09:17):
That's the way to do it.
I wish every project ran likethat.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
I completely agree.
I don't ever want to like do aproject where there's like 50
people involved.
We had four people and we all.
It was done with no money wespent.
Like the most amount of moneyspent was probably Andrew
Colleen and Calvin driving fromBrooklyn and paying the tolls to
get here and the gas money.
That was it.

Speaker 1 (09:44):
Oh, I love it.
I love it.
Was this your first endeavorreally working with like a
co-director, where you're notlike because this can be a very
independent job in a lot ofcases no, or or you already kind
of used to working in a smallteam.

Speaker 2 (10:03):
This is my first time with a co-director.
Anything I've ever made, I'vealways directed myself, and
Andrew was the one who suggested.
He initially suggested I'llshoot it for you, right, it will
go shoot in two weeks, and then, after talking about for a bit
we were walking somewhere and hegoes.
You know, I hope this isn'tlike intrusive at all, but if
you let me, I'd love toco-direct it with you.
And I immediately was like yes,because I trust Andrew as a

(10:24):
person to handle, you know, thiskind of subject.
If anybody else asked me that,it would have been absolutely
not.
I need to like do this on myown, and I was going to do it on
my own even before Andrewpushed me to have it done, but I
trust him completely.
Yeah, like to be vulnerable.

(10:46):
There's not many people mostpeople have in their lives that
they can be vulnerable in frontof, and Andrew, colleen and
Calvin are absolutely peoplethat could feel comfortable as
comfortable as they could bebeing vulnerable in front of.
So, yeah, first timecollaborating with another
director, I loved it and it'slike so much easier when you
guys already have a rapport.
You understand each other'stastes.

(11:07):
When we were talking about thefilm, we're at his house just as
he was asking these questionsand he starts explaining a
certain shot, like maybe wecould do it like this.
And as he's saying it I'mfilling the blank, like that's
exactly how I saw it, and thenI'd say something and he'd go,
and then we could do it likethat, and I go, that's exactly
what I was thinking.
So we were on the same train ofthought the entire time.

(11:30):
So that made me feel evenbetter, trusting him with
whatever's on the camera,because I know it come out
exactly how I would try to do it.

Speaker 1 (11:38):
I love it because it's like you almost know that
you speak the same language orlike slightly different
languages, but you fullyunderstand you speak each
other's languages in the sense.
I feel a lot like thatsometimes with with Duralis,
who's my partner, and weco-direct a lot of things or we
work, we partner up on differentthings, different, and we
definitely don't speak the samelanguage, but we fully

(12:02):
understand each other'slanguages in that sense and we
bounce off of each other.
You know you kind of can watcheach other's weak points and it
sounds like it's a very similarcollaboration with you and
Andrew.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
Yeah, absolutely.
It's like I'm in his head andhe's in mind when we would share
references back and forth.
He goes okay, I see exactly nowthat we've come put an image to
it, he goes all right, you'rethinking the same thing, I think
we can.
This is confirmed, and so Icould just trust him.

Speaker 1 (12:31):
We may be saying it different ways, but we're
thinking the same thing.
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
No, that's amazing.
I want to dive in a little bitinto the unique style you guys
chose to go with this.
It's you guys really did gowith art house for sure.
Like it has a very cinematic,artistic vibe.

(12:54):
It's not your typicaldocumentary or narrative by any
means.
Was this style?
Well, why?
Why this style?
Specifically for this story?

Speaker 2 (13:09):
So I actually learned this a lot through Andrew.
Andrew was the cinematographer.
I trusted him with everything.
When we talked about what ashot could look like or could
feel like and I knew that he wasseeing what I was seeing, I let
him have it Like take it, takethe cinematography away from me.
I know that you're going tokill it.
He's been a DP, I think, forlike 10 years before he came a
director for like another 10years.

(13:30):
So he's been both a directorand a DP very incredibly
experienced in both.

Speaker 1 (13:37):
And so you guys strive for really emotions
behind the shots, more sostrictly that it was strictly
about.

Speaker 2 (13:44):
We didn't even shot listed, we just had our
locations and we knew what itwas supposed to feel like and we
would pick real location.
The locations were the veryplaces I was in at the time that
I was ill.
So we knew this is going tohappen in this room and that's
going to happen at that room.
No shot listing, but we knowwhat we're going for.
So it was strictly emotion.

(14:06):
And then in the edit we justpicked the best stuff.
We didn't even try to shoot itwith the intention for it to be
linear.
It was just go in there, grabthe best stuff like the most
interesting shots.
You can that express whatyou're trying to express, and
then let's get to the nextlocation I got you.

Speaker 1 (14:23):
Yeah, no, I love it.
It definitely.
I see that a lot because itreally is everything kind of
works towards the emotion of thelocation of the scene.
What you're saying and you'reseeing that, because you guys
use a wide variety of differentshot styles you know focal
length and some really cool whatI would say looks like a lot of

(14:44):
practical effects that you guyswere diving into and the
overall like look to it gave itsuch a retro, like vintage style
look, you know, almost, almostfilmic.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
Yeah, we were hoping it would be filmic looking.
He just likes that has a lot oftexture, and so do I, not just
in our shot choice but all theway down to the edit, all the
way down to the color, all theway down to the film green.
So we just kind of really justplayed with it.

(15:21):
We experimented a lot in post,a lot in the editing.

Speaker 1 (15:25):
That was my next question.
Like what did you shoot this onand like how much would you say
these effects were reallyimposed, versus in camera?

Speaker 2 (15:34):
They were 100% in camera.
We shot it on an Alexa miniwith B speeds.
Okay, great camera, great setof lenses, great location, great
story.
Just going there to improvisethe most experimental stuff in
the edit was just how we edit it.

(15:55):
So Andrew's a massive fan ofGodard and if you watch his
films, it's really just the mostbeautiful things that he likes
in a row, like, yes, the storyis linear, but there's no like A
shot and then a B shot.
It's just like it's that shotlooks great and then that shot

(16:16):
looks great and it pushes thestory forward and then that shot
looks great.
So it just.
If you look at Godard films, itdoes look like we're clearly
inspired by it.
You can see the editing.
I went and watched Breathless,which is one of Andrew's
favorite movies, and just to geta sense of the editing, cause
I've never edited like that, notthat at far.
If you look at a lot of theother work I've done, you can

(16:38):
tell it's just like oh, theseare my favorite shots, but this
was the first time where I hadedited something with him, of
course.
And we go through the footageand go look at all these takes
of this, what's the best shot?
And then take everything elseout.
And then what's the best takesin this location and pick our
favorite ones and takeeverything else out.

(16:58):
So we go from like, maybe, let'ssay, we had 50 gigs of footage
and then, after a pass, we had20 gigs and then we did it again
and it got down to 10.
It was getting like so we onlyhad the strongest choices and it
didn't have to be leaner in anyfashion.
So it's like, yeah, if you justgo watch a Godard film and you
go, okay, yeah, that's a prettyshot, that's a great shot.
I like that shot.
It's put together.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
You got the top 5 to 10% of everything you shot and
just use absolutely the best andfor some of just a quick, like
a technical thing, if you wantto dive in for some of more
inexperienced people, you knowwith the Lexamine what's like
the advantage of using B speedlenses B speeds- are just
beautiful.

Speaker 2 (17:39):
They're just beautiful.
So many of the cool commercialswe see and movies we see have
been shot on B speeds Like it'sjust really.
Andrew owns these.
He owns a lot of his ownequipment.
He's very much like.
A lot of his compulsion is incamera.
It makes sense why he startedoff as a DP.
Even though he's a director, hestill owns a ton of his own

(18:03):
equipment, which is advantage.
When you want to go makesomething personally.
You don't have to worry aboutrenting this or renting that.
He owns like a ton of stuff.

Speaker 1 (18:10):
Of course.
And it makes you a betterdirector too, because when you
have the familiarity, I can saywords right, the filiming, the
know how of all these differentareas of production.
It just makes you such a bettercommunicator and it gives you
the right language and tools tomake the whole production come

(18:32):
together and talk to your crew,you know.

Speaker 2 (18:35):
Absolutely.
I've always said you have toknow just enough to communicate
with the other departments.
Because I'm not super technical.
I used to be really obsessedwith like camera gear and buying
stuff and then just became sucha hassle to go that new thing
is out, and that new thing isout, and that new thing is out
and I was so much happier justnot buying stuff.
But for Andrew that's hiscompulsion.
He can't help it, which meanshe will always get better and
better and better at using stuffand how to use it and how to,

(18:58):
why that B speed works well withthat camera, why it looks so
good on that camera.
He'll tell you all thetechnicalities of it.
I just go, I like that shot, Ilike that shot or I like that
texture with that lens andcamera or that combo and I just
go, let's roll with that one.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
And speaking of practical effects and getting
like all these super uniqueshots that you guys were able to
pull off, one of the shots thatstood out to me like very
prominently was this the scenein the bathroom mirror where it
almost feels like a vortex Atthe same time.

(19:32):
You know you're stable in thecenter and it looks like you're
doing this prism effect with themirrors, but the motion is so
unique to me I couldn't reallypinpoint how that was happening,
but I loved it.
I was like this is really cool.
It stood out to me.
I would love to hear how youguys captured that shot and if

(19:53):
you know the real magic a little.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
That was Andrew's idea.
Again, super interesting,always experimental with new
stuff.
So the bathroom in my home hasyou ever seen?
Those bathrooms have threemirrors as well in the middle,
and they all open becausethey're medicine cabinets.
Yep, well, we opened the two onthe side and we'd open and
close them like this and we hada red light shining in and he

(20:16):
would zoom in and zoom out whilepanning, moving the camera back
and forth.
So we've got a forward motion,zooming in and zooming out and
then moving left to right at thesame time.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
And you guys, are moving the mirrors, too, at the
same time.

Speaker 2 (20:30):
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, and there's a red lighton it as well, so that you have
the red light reflecting off ofthe mirrors as you're turning
them, so you can't tell whereanything is.

Speaker 1 (20:40):
Oh, wow that, oh, that's crazy.
Yeah, so you had the mirrorsgoing, the zoom going, the pan
going Right and that's A lot ofmovement, vortex, and while all
that's happening, he's managingto keep you like, in the focus
and centered.
Mm Unless, that was likerealignment posts, but like that

(21:01):
, that was like crazy.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
No, no, no, that was all in camera, yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:04):
That was the craziest part to me too, I suspect,
because it's like all this,because you're talking about
like the conflicts in your mindand everything, and really, and
it just really kind of givesthat swirling world effect.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
Right, yes, and when you watch a film, you know
exactly why it's supposed to bethat way.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
Yeah, no, 100%.
Okay, that's really cool.
That's really cool.
There was another shot, a shotshot.
There was another shot thatstood out to us too and it had
like almost like a fan effect,Like you shot it.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
Mm-hmm, you know, was I laying down in a bed while
that was happening.
Yeah, yeah, yes, that was aproblence.
That was a problence, I knowyeah.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
I'm familiar, was it a?

Speaker 2 (21:58):
problence.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
You're talking about the long ones that like have the
super small lens.

Speaker 2 (22:05):
I think I'm getting it wrong.
It's not a problence, or maybeit's a type of problence.
I know it's long like that, butthe camera, the lens, isn't at
the end like this.
It actually faces up and itrotates at the end.
So if you kept it completelystill, it would be like if you
kept your phone camera straightup and just had it keep rotating

(22:27):
like that.
But it's at the end of the lens.
I think I've seen it.
Yes, so you can make it goclockwise or counterclockwise
and then on top of it you canmove the camera.
So that's two movements, sothat one is me lying down and
where the camera's going over meas I'm lying down, but the lens
is rotating this way.

(22:47):
Yeah, I love it.
It's the same lens we see onthe tree shot.
Yeah, where it looks.
You see the camera kind of lookup at the tree and go back
around.
It's just rotating at the end.
Yeah, wow, that's cool.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
Yeah, I love all these combo moves that you guys
are doing, really maximizing, soI'm assuming that's something
that, like, andrew was reallyexperimenting and like, how many
movements can we combine tomake this shot?

Speaker 2 (23:14):
as possible.
So that's definitely Andrew'sidea.
Once again.
He's got like he's reallywanted to experiment on this
film and I'm like I'm down to beexperimenting.
I'm down to be experimentalCause the way I initially
planned it was like so muchsimpler and he goes let's really
try and like make art here.
We had like the space toexperiment with this and I'm a
huge fan of the movement.
I've been saying for a whilenow, when the shot looks

(23:37):
interesting, if you just look atthe movement, but there's
normally more than one thing.
It's not always you can havesomething really simple and it
looks amazing.
But I like the idea that likesomething is like if you have
the subject moving one way andthe camera moving something
different and then maybe you cutto something that's really
jarring, like something reallyclose to something really wide.
You've got so much going on.
It always has this visualinterest and Andrew is very,

(24:00):
very good at that, very, verygood at figuring those things
out, and he does them almostinstinctively.
Yeah, yeah, he just comes upwith these really cool ideas and
he just like let's go do thisHonestly with it, and I rolled
with it.

Speaker 1 (24:11):
I love it.
I love it Honestly.
With this art it's like museumworthy, like you're gonna do it,
because there's a lot ofmuseums that do art films.
You know, like art house films,you know this and that, hence
the genre right Art houseAbsolutely, but it's definitely,
I would have to say you guysreally outdid that, that

(24:31):
artistic view, the style andthen, of course, the impactful
nature of it, the personal, Ithink.
When it's like a personal storylike that and you're able to
get it out, how has been theimpact for you now having on
this run so far and having thismovie out Like, how do you feel?
Like of course you got toprocess a bit making the film,

(24:57):
but now that it's out, what doyou feel has been the impact?

Speaker 2 (25:01):
Okay, great question.
There's more than one answer tothis, true?
The first thing is I got toshow it to my mom Cause it was
initially like I have to showthis to her and it went premier
to LES.
I brought her there.
She saw it for the very firsttime and they showed it in the
Angelica and that was like hugefor my mom to you know, I can

(25:22):
finally reveal these things.
I've never told her and thenit's like it's I'm so avoided
it's hard for me to even tellher that person to person.
I had to go make a film aboutit and show it to her.
I even sit next to her duringthe screening.
I was on the other side of thetheater because I just like it
was just too emotionallyimpactful to have your mother
right there as you show her thisthing.
That's about her so very happythat she got to see it.

(25:46):
But the second answer to this isthat now that it's out, I'm
actually still very scared of it.
I'm glad it's out, I'm justscared cause every time it shows
somewhere, someone sees me.
It's very rare that peopledesire to be seen at an
incredibly intimate level.

(26:07):
Even if people say that's whatthey desire, when someone
actually sees you, you want toput your clothes back on and I'm
just like naked on a screen,emotionally speaking, and
letting people see it.
And we screened at the newfaces, new voices film festival
this past Wednesday and therewere parts where I still looked
away Because even though whenyou have to sit in the fear of

(26:31):
whatever scares you to make thatpiece that will ideally make
you feel like the experience hasbeen cathartic or you share it
with everyone else, the feardoesn't go away.
And that's the thing I'mlearning.
It's really cliche to say this,but people do say sometimes
great art comes from great pain.
I used to think I think mostgreat art comes from leisure.

(26:52):
If you have the space and timeand resources to be an artist.
When your mind's not worriedabout what am I gonna eat
tonight, you're not in survivalmode, you have the space that
your mind wander into thesedifferent areas.
But sometimes art does comefrom pain and I've learned when

(27:14):
it does, it does not necessarilyheal you.
So far I am not completelyhealed.
If that makes you know what Imean Like I'm getting better and
hopefully maybe six from some.
Now I'm like, oh, this wastotally cathartic, it's exactly
what I was hoping for it wasn'timmediate, but it happened
eventually.
I still look away from thescreen sometimes Because I just

(27:35):
can't.
You know, it's still heavy.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
It's still painful, it's deep, it's very deep, and I
think a lot of people canrelate to that, because I think
those things it's you'rereliving your trauma, you know,
and it has a big tie to that andI think you're very right.
Sometimes it's that it doesn'tgo away, but we learn to live

(28:01):
with it, we learn to be at peacewith it and we know it's kind
of a part of us and it's true, alot of great art does come from
pain.
Unfortunately, like I said,it's from the expression of
emotion.
I mean, one of the most famousartists in history is Van Gogh,
and he's also arguably one ofthe most tortured artists you

(28:24):
know in history in general, asfar as if you know his story and
but I think it's also, you know, like there is that hope that
we can find peace with it, youknow.
And then I think it's onepowerful thing, though, about
what you've done.
I think it's it gives a voicefor people, because if this is

(28:46):
something you're going through,that means that there's half and
people, even though, yeah, likewe don't want to be in the
spotlight, like again, this isagainst my nature too, and I'm
running a podcast as a host.
I've always been a behind thescenes type person, you know.
But the thing that I have alsolearned is that those things,

(29:09):
now they have a life of theirown and now they're impacting
people, you know.
You not only given a voice toyour emotions and your trauma,
but you're giving now a voice toothers who also have the same
thing, but they don't have a wayto express it.
You know, you're giving a tool,something that can impact lives

(29:31):
, give people peace or help themalso process some of the things
.
I mean, I think that's abeautiful thing when we're able
to do that and create a resource, essentially create something,
and I think art has such apotent power to do that, you
know.
Be that support for others, youknow.

(29:55):
So I think, overall, though,I'm inspired by it myself, you
know, and I can't say that Irelate to it, but I can only
imagine what this might mean forother people, you know.

Speaker 2 (30:10):
Yeah, I'm very glad you just said that that's
something I've always wonderedLike, if I put it out there,
does anyone even care about it?
Because I only put it out therefor myself and for my mom, and
that's what's like the beginning, middle and end of the day.
And that's what's like thebeginning, middle and end, Yep,
and of course I want to share itwith people.
I'm scared to do it, but for methe point of film really is

(30:33):
like a private conversation on avery large scale.
I don't want to make a moviejust keeping it dark 100%, and I
hope people feel inspired.
I'm glad you said that.
Thank you for telling me that.
You know there are people whodon't always necessarily relate,
but I always hope someone doesor maybe they just.
Maybe they don't relate, but itdoes something to that.
It's got that power to changesomeone's perspective or change

(30:57):
something about them and forcethem to look inward, but it does
something for somebody else.
Great, Perfect.

Speaker 1 (31:03):
Yeah, I mean, if it's just one person, isn't that
worth it, you know?

Speaker 2 (31:08):
Absolutely.
It's just like okay, it's notjust me, You're seeing it too.

Speaker 1 (31:12):
Exactly, exactly, no, 100%, I mean.
I've always loved this.
A mentor of mine a long timeago once said this, and I kind
of took it to heart, thatsuccess is determined by how
many people are better offbecause you lived.

Speaker 2 (31:28):
Very powerful.

Speaker 1 (31:29):
And wow, yeah, and I that's-.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
I have to sit on that now.

Speaker 1 (31:33):
Yeah, but the beautiful thing with art, though
, and our medium and stuff, is,like we create things that
become extensions of ourself.
So thus, through something thatis now out in the world,
serving your message, yourvision, and thus impacting
others, even when we can'tactually impact people, you know

(31:53):
.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
Absolutely.
I hope someone out there saw itand they, I don't know, wanted
to go hug their mom when theywere done.

Speaker 1 (32:02):
How was that conversation with your mom after
the first screening, after shesaw the final product?
Because I know she kind of wasaware of it.
She was filmed in it, but Right.

Speaker 2 (32:11):
How was that?
I refused to show her until itwas in a theater.
I thought it was the rightplace, of course, with my family
there.
She hugged me.
She says good job, son, I'mreally proud of you that you
made this.
She goes.
I didn't know half of that aboutyou, because I just don't share
those things.
It's like again the fear.
I didn't want to sit in it verymuch.

(32:33):
It's like I didn't want to lookin the eye and let alone put it
on the screen for people to see.
She goes.
I never knew you really feltthat way.
Our relationship afterward was.
It's just been a bit softer.
I think it's because weunderstand each other so much
more, because our images of eachother have changed from child
to teenager, to adult.

(32:53):
Then it's like you come to thiscrossroads or this moment where
it's like your mother's alreadybirthed you.
Now she has to give you lifeagain.
That changes it so dramatically.
None of us really said anythingabout it after the surgery
because I didn't even know whatto say.
Thank you, that's it.
That's all I can give you.
In the film I do realize Imentioned how I realized my

(33:17):
mother was never really lookingfor a thank you.
She's your mom.
She's supposed to be doingthese things like this, without
hesitation.
Yeah, it's just like therewasn't much of a conversation,
but there's understanding.
She goes I see you more now.
I've learned something moreabout you.
To watch my mother receive itthat way, I learned a lot more
about her, and very few wordsever had to be said.

(33:39):
You were just kind of lookingeach other in the eye and just
both knew where we were.
It's been that way since.

Speaker 1 (33:45):
That's absolutely beautiful.
It's just amazing that gracethat comes from unconditional
love, like true unconditionallove, and that is something very
special, I think.
I completely agree, noteveryone has that, but it really
showcases this because whenit's unconditional it's like you

(34:05):
said you may have not beennecessarily deserving of it but
you got it Because it came froma graceful place, because
someone just loves you withoutcondition.
There's no strings attached tonothing, no thank yous needed.
It is just crazy with that wecan have that with people and it

(34:26):
really gives us thatopportunity to continue on.
Because I know I've had my fairshare of moments where I
definitely felt guilt or feltguilty, I felt undeserving of
things that people bestowed uponme or opportunities that God

(34:47):
has just willingly granted me.
You kind of question yourself Idon't understand why I have a
list of people who should getthis over me or something like
that.

Speaker 2 (35:05):
Yeah, it feels like no way, not me.
Just no questions asked.
I got to give you something.

Speaker 1 (35:12):
Yeah, and it's like oh, so I'm going to pay you my
life savings for the next 50years and maybe that'll get
closer.

Speaker 2 (35:19):
Yeah that's exactly how I felt.
I don't know what would happenis do I make a bunch of money
and retire early?
That's not enough.
Do I give her every dollar I'veever made?
That's still not enough.
Because she's given me lifetwice now and that's priceless.
And I learned.
The conclusion I come to wasunconditional love is not

(35:41):
transactionary.
Any love under condition is notlove at all, which is why she
never hesitated to give me akidney when I needed one.
The doctor said he needs a newkidney and she said okay, just
like that.
And they go.
Well, don't you want to thinkabout it?
And she goes nope, let's getthis ball in the room.
And they were just like shocked, like how forward she was.

(36:05):
Even there I'm sitting there,uncomfortable, like you're not
going to think I'm on dialysisand I'm like you're not going to
think about this.
She's like come on, drop, drop.
What do we have to do?
We're going to like test myblood.
What is it?
And they're telling her take aday, and she goes.
This is my son.
I know what I want to do.

Speaker 1 (36:23):
That's beautiful and I guess she'll just think, just
hearing that thing, that'spowerful, because some ways I
feel like or at least I hopelike I feel like I'm that way
with certain things, you know,when it comes to the people I
love most.
But you never know.
You know, and that's abeautiful thing.
It's interesting Now that yousay that, like, you know, the

(36:47):
differences between conditional,unconditional, like what is
true love there's in otherlanguages, you know, like
English language, we have oneword for love really, and it's
love, you know other languageshave multiple words for types of
love.
you know, tears of love likedifferent things, like there's
the love between families, lovebetween friends is a love

(37:08):
between your fellow human.
And I know in the ancient Greekthere's or maybe it's the hero,
don't quote me on this, butthere's an agape love this comes
from, like this is what's usedin the Bible to describe God's
love, which is a trulyunconditional, undeserving love.
It's a wholehearted love, youknow, and in a lot of ways it's

(37:31):
known as the father's love.
But, you know, not like yourhumanly file, but like the golly
one.
But that agape love is what Ialways think of when I'm
thinking of like a trueunconditional.
There is no bylines type oflove, yep, no conditions just be
and that's enough.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
And it's hard for us to believe that we're enough for
stuff like people.
Just it's very rare that yousee a person that just come from
but, yeah, I'm deserving a lotof this.
Everyone's got some hang upthat makes me go.
Nah, I shouldn't have this.
This doesn't feel right, andit's because we're so used to
like transaction in some waythat when someone gives you
something that's priceless andyou go, well, I don't have an

(38:12):
answer, there's no thing to give.
And as you get older, as I getolder, I just learn it's
important to accept love whenit's there.
Don't find a reason to questionsomebody's love, just accept it
100%, 100%.

Speaker 1 (38:29):
I've had to learn that throughout my life and now
that I'm older because it's likeyou, you struck people.
I think a lot of peoplestruggle with that.
You know.
They have to learn that whenpeople want to gift you
something, it's a gift, it's nota trade, it's not a yes, you
know it's a gift.
You know, and people genuinelydo that for people.

(38:54):
You know, and we have to learnto like, accept it and not get
on a go train or try to repay itor fly out, deny it sometimes,
because we feel like we can'treturn to first place.
You know.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
Yeah, it's like you're trying to help me and
it's like, why would you help melike this?
You almost feel like what'swrong with you, you know, like
because you're just so trainedyou've trained yourself or
something, or some situation orsociety, whatever it is, has
trained you to think I'm notdeserving of this.
So when they go, yeah, I know,just take it, you immediately
deny it.
I cannot have this.

(39:28):
And if I take it, I must giveyou something.
And I think life is muchsweeter when you realize
unconditional love does existand you are deserving of it, and
as is everybody else, and whensomeone can give you
unconditional love, never denyit 100%.

Speaker 1 (39:43):
And the other thing is the irony in it all is that
usually the people I feel likeyou included myself and many
others, I'm sure listening isthat we are big givers.
You know, we do give a lot andwe don't always expect.
And it's like for some reasonit's so funny how we were we
deny the rest of the world couldbe like us and that sense

(40:05):
somehow in a backward type ofway.
And I remember in this book nota red called the go giver and
goes through these five laws ofsuccess.
It's a great book, it's a shortstory, but the last one is the
law of receiving and that me andit's it's basically speaks
about like hey, when you breatheyou can't live your whole life

(40:29):
breathing only out.
You eventually have to breathein.
You know you give in your lifeso much.
Life is naturally going toreciprocate.
It may not be a directtransaction, but if you give
freely, sometimes life will givefreely back to you.
And for you to not accept thosemoments as you deny breath

(40:55):
itself incredibly powerful todeny breath itself.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
That's such a great way to put that Because, yes,
like the thing that, what I'velearned is that the part of life
that's worth living for is thatunconditional love, 1000%.
That's the thing that makes yougo.
Life is totally worth living.
This exists.
We all think like we're theones doing the giving, but none

(41:25):
of us are willing to receive.
So it's just a billion one waystreets walking around and it
should be two way, and once yourealize it's two ways, you go
finally, and life feels a bitsweeter knowing that if you were
lucky enough to have someonewho loves you unconditionally in
your life, in your circle,never deny it 100%, never, ever

(41:49):
deny it, 100%, 100%.

Speaker 1 (41:52):
Of course, you know that comes in nuance and all
those things of life betweenourselves and the person
involved, but I think it's justa powerful show of that and your
story really conveys that andagain, it's just another way
that people can think, relate toit.
Now that you are now movingforward, how do you feel this

(42:15):
has potentially impacted yourfuture in your career and your
direction?
You're trying to take things inand what you want to do with
your future projects and justwith career choices in life.

Speaker 2 (42:29):
And filmmaking the way this.
I feel like this has changed mein that I have a whole
different direction on how Icreate anything.
The biggest lesson I came thatcame from, or one of the biggest
lessons as a filmmaker, as anartist, from this project was
sit in the fear, do not run awayfrom it.
A lot of the things that areworth watching, those pieces

(42:52):
that are timeless, came fromsomebody crying over a keyboard,
crying over a typewriter,trying to dig up these emotions
while simultaneously trying tokeep them down because they
don't want to acknowledge it.
It's incredibly emotionallytaxing, but if you can get it up
, you have something that peoplewill acknowledge.
And maybe I have no one relateto it, but people will

(43:14):
acknowledge it.
People notice honesty, peoplenotice when you are being very,
very earnest about your emotions, and I want to make every other
piece of art I ever make withsomething very, very, very
intentional which requireslooking at some corridor in my
mind, going around the corner,opening the door and trying not

(43:35):
to shut it immediately.
You got to walk in and just sitin the environment, so that's
affecting me tremendously.
The next thing I want to makeis I'm writing a feature.
Right now I'm actually writingtwo features, one alongside an
entry, wonder my co-director.
But there's one I'm writing.
That's a personal story and Irealized I was doing the same
thing.
I was avoiding it and I go, Idon't want to talk about this,
and it's like you want to makesomething worth making.

(43:55):
Look it right in the eye.
Except it's no longer, you know, a five minute piece, it'll be
a 90 minute piece, so it's aneven greater wave.
I have to stare down and justallow it to bombard me.
In my career as a filmmaker, Ifeel like that film is easily
the most interesting piece andthe most honest piece I've ever

(44:17):
made and the last couple ofyears of filmmaking that piece
has gotten me attention fromcommercial production companies.
That piece has gotten meattention from other DP's.
It's really like.
It's really something that haselevated me into different

(44:39):
circles and it all came fromjust sitting in that fear and
going all right, fine here, andthen showing it to the world and
people going oh, I see you andI go.
This is awesome, this is great.
I didn't expect it to go thisfar.
It's just hey, mom, here it is.
I get my cathartic experience,or as I thought it would be.

(45:01):
I showed it to some people at afilm festival for funsies.
Hey, I made this film.
I'm not trying to make it aloneand just let my mom see it, so
why don't you guys pick it uptoo?
And then other directors aregoing.
I find your work interesting,let's chat.
And I go.
I find your work interesting,let's chat.
I think you are friends andfuture collaborators through

(45:23):
this film.

Speaker 1 (45:24):
That's amazing.
I think that's that's thepowerful thing about art.
I think you said it bestearlier.
It's a private conversation ona large scale audience and I
think that's where a lot of thebest art comes from.
Is that, like you know, thathonesty, I think we as humans

(45:45):
were intrinsically sensitive toreal or sensitive to realness or
sensitive to real life.
And I think, because it's trans, that's the same, I think, in
every art form music, dance, youknow.
Film, photography, visual art.
You know we get home, you hearabout all the time, with all the

(46:11):
truer art pieces, it's likethey, people feel it because I
think when you put emotion, liketrue emotion, into it, it kind
of sustains that and then we caninstinctively pull it out.
You know, through through allthose human elements that we put
into these pieces, you know,because that's what, that's what
I, that's what you find people,when they talk about real art,

(46:34):
they talk about emotions.

Speaker 2 (46:36):
Yeah, you know absolutely.
It's like the human experienceis the thing we can all relate
to.
You and I can be fromcompletely different countries,
practice two different religions, speak two different languages,
but the human experience is theone through line between all of
us.

Speaker 1 (46:49):
Yeah, we can both see someone trip on a banana and
we'll laugh.
No words need to be spoken.
No words need to be spoken,we'll be just okay.
I sure, like that's great,speaking two completely
different gibberish languagesRight, right, right, but no, but
like you said, it's the humanexperience.
You know it's that, it's it's,it's those things it's like

(47:13):
that's what makes us human.
You know, those are the.
The detail stuff is like thebelief systems and the language
and stuff like that.
But foundationally and I reallyfound that on my travels too
you know it's like people arepeople, no matter where you go.
Yeah, you know, yeah the peopleare people.

Speaker 2 (47:30):
It's like you met one .
You met them all in a weirdkind of way, because we're all
experienced the same emotions.
We've all experiencedheartbreak, we've all had a good
laugh, we've all lost somebody,we've all met somebody, we've
all fell in love, we've allfallen out of love and it's like
we can all art that has to dowith any of those experiences.
I was like, yeah, I'm there too, buddy.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
Yeah, and the funny thing is I feel like emotions
and the internal world is humansbiggest mystery, so it's also
our biggest intrigue across allplaces.
Because I feel like everyonecan relate to a certain degree

(48:10):
of not understanding themselvesor their own emotions or their
own thoughts or different thingslike that.
And I'm varying levels of likeemotional IQ and I, you know and
you know I've they've gone totherapy for years but they'd
never got like we all, todifferent degrees, have the same
intrinsic interest in unveilingour own internal mysteries.

(48:34):
You know and I think that's.
I think that's also whatattracts us so much to
experiencing other people, likeemotions in the world and human
experiences, because they'relittle windows, the little
windows that we can relate toand can give us even our own
clarity.
Is that like?
Because that's what we do?
Initially, we?

(48:54):
We we catch onto an emotioncreated by you, for example, but
then we immediately apply it toourselves and our own
experience.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:05):
Yeah, and in everyone's world.
They experience everythingdifferently because they're
experiencing it through theirown lens and reflection of
themselves.
So one piece can affect athousand people differently.

Speaker 2 (49:19):
That's right.
Everybody gleams somethingdifferent from a painting, a
movie, a cartoon and experience,whatever it is.
See what, all that your ownlives.
But there's some, there'ssomething in that piece that is
matching the through line andthat creator's life and the
viewer's life, and they'll seeit through something different,
but they still relate?

Speaker 1 (49:39):
Yeah, no 100%.
One curious question as far asthe future, you are you like in
your work, work you know in yourwork life, are you?
Are you really are you going todouble down on keeping your
filmmaking into these narratives, into now being a filmmaker as

(50:03):
far as original work isconcerned, or are you looking to
expand into a more commercialworld?
Or are you kind of just testingthe waters and trying to see
which one, how both of themsprout?
Because I've seen somecommercial work you've done and
different things on your page.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
To me, everything's a narrative, at least the way I
approach it.
Everything is a narrative Ifit's just a series of moments.
Something human is happening.
I've done commercial work andI'm still diving deeper into the
commercial world, which is somuch fun, I have a blast doing
commercials but ultimately it'sall a narrative.
I want to do futures.

(50:41):
My goal was, of course, to getto a point where I make a
feature.
I'm writing two of them rightnow Because it's just like the
right medium for the kinds ofstories I'm telling.
Some stories don't do well in10 minutes.
Some need 90 minutes.
I have done pieces that Ihaven't shown anyone or I've
taken off my Instagram and offmy website.
That is 15 seconds and it'ssomeone staring out a window and

(51:05):
you just hear the wind crossing.
That's just lookingintrospective.
That's the whole thing.
To me, that's a narrative aswell.
I always want to make narratives, no matter the format.
Give me 30 seconds for acommercial.
I will tell you a story.
It'll be very human, becausethat's what I do.
I humanize whoever crosses mylens.
That's what I do.
You give me 90 minutes to do itEven better, because now I can

(51:29):
really make sure you know whothis person is that you can
empathize with them and relateto them.
My goal is to make sure thatpeople can relate to something
they don't know at all At all.
I want to take someone that youand I don't know from a can of
pain and I want you to cry forthem and go.
I've never experienced thislife, but through this lens and
through this character, I haveto, and I see someone else who I

(51:52):
don't know.
I have to sympathize with alittle bit more.
A little bit more, a little bitmore.
I feel like that's how youbegin to understand people.
My life goal is to understandand to be understood, and
filmmaking allows me to do that,and every character has a
little piece of you in there,and if people could just watch
my films, then I feel a bit moreunderstood.

Speaker 1 (52:13):
So, yeah, I'd like to go and.

Speaker 2 (52:15):
I'll humanize anybody in any format.
Live is always at the top of mylist.

Speaker 1 (52:23):
I love it.
I love it, you really.
It's a journey of humanisticstorytelling, completely agreed.
I love it.
I love it.
Give it 30 seconds or give itan hour and a half.
The goal is to really create astory that humanizes the

(52:45):
characters.
That really is the humanexperience.
I think that's such a.
It really speaks to your style.
I caught that from just yourprevious work, even something.
So a lot of your work has thisfilmic vibe to it, this very
nostalgic, I would even saystyle to it, which I love and I

(53:10):
think you pull off very well.
But even your more modernlooking work the weightlifting
team project gave it realpersonality.
I gave it personality to thepeople on the team.
I almost got a feel of what theenergy was like in the room,

(53:33):
the caramity, just like the hype.
I wasn't so much like oh, theseguys can lift heavy, these guys
are achieving.
It was more like wow, this isan intense room, they're really
going for it.

Speaker 2 (53:49):
I love that piece.
It's a powerlifting team that Iactually used to be a part of.
I'm friends with the owner ofthat team and they want to shoot
something.
It goes you're a filmmaker, youwant to do it, and I'm like I'm
going to take this opportunityto make a sports piece and
because I know all of themindividually and I know what the
feeling of the team is like, Ijust knew it can't be something

(54:11):
that's too harsh, too hard,because a lot of like you could
anything related toweightlifting, powerlifting in
particular, it's like supertough.
We go to the gym at six in themorning and we squat a lot of
weight and it's just, like youknow, very intense.
This was fun, though,incredibly.
There's a video of a guyrunning up a mountain and
something like that and that'scool.
That's super cool.
I have a background in sports.

(54:32):
I've always loved to do sportsprofessionally before I was a
filmmaker.
I know that feeling.
But I know that team and theydon't feel like that.
They're just as strong as theguys in those cool.
They're squatted, all the sweet, but they're young and they're
fun and they have this energy tothem and I hang out with them
in the gym at that time, likethree, four times a week, as we

(54:53):
worked out together, and Ithought I have to capture them.
I have to capture what this teamfeels like.
So when people see this ad it'sgoing to, they'll know what
they're getting themselves into.
And it looked completelydifferent from anything
powerlifting related that's, asfar as I know, ever been made.
Not only that, but powerliftingis a very stiff looking sport.

(55:15):
There's three movements yoursquat, your bench and your
deadlift.
It can be very boring to watch,exciting to do, but sometimes
born to watch, and I wanted itto feel like something really
upbeat, something incrediblydynamic, like the way you see
those Nike soccer commercials,those Nike basketball
commercials.
They're cutting everywhere andone person's there and that
person's there I want to feellike in the edit, like they were

(55:37):
always passing the ball.

Speaker 1 (55:40):
Yeah, you know, I just captured all them.

Speaker 2 (55:43):
Yeah, good, good, good.
I'm glad it came off that way.
I thought it was really fun.

Speaker 1 (55:47):
Yeah, like I said, it was like it was definitely like
I said, it's just you felt thisfun, really energy from it,
really, and I felt like youreally felt a lot of so much
personality out of it.
I love that.
It really stood out to me.
And thank you so much.
So so, no, definitely.
So I definitely see thishumanistic narratives narrative

(56:09):
that you got, you got going onacross your pieces and it really
ties it together.
Now that you really put it inthat framework, it's like I see
that right.
It's like it's like each ofthese pieces are about the
people, the experience, and it'snot even though it's a
commercial for a thing, for ateam, for this or that, but it's
it's constantly like you're youget to know these people and

(56:31):
you feel like it's like I almostkind of like just I felt like I
hung out with them.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
Yeah, that's exactly what I wanted to feel like.
I wanted people to look at thatand go that's a powerlifting
team that I want to join.
I know exactly the kinds ofcharacters I'm going to run into
.
They're just as serious andhard, as hardworking as the
other powerlifting teams.
They're actually like numbertwo team in the state of New
Jersey, but they don't feel likeso self serious.
They're very serious abouttheir training but they're

(56:58):
having a good time and I wantedpeople to know that and feel
that.

Speaker 1 (57:02):
Yeah, I know, and I think that's a that's such a
great way to to to tackle this,you know, and as a director and
filmmaker Actually, now that youmentioned, you have a
background in sports and I wascurious because you said you did
sports, at least a relativelyhigher level, and, with that

(57:24):
being said, I know sportsdemands a very specific mindset,
a very specific, you know,outlook and different things
like that.
Has any of that informed ortranslated into now the
filmmaking world for you, like,and how you tackle things, how
you think about things, mindset,wise, different things like
that.
What, what do you feel likeyou've taken from your, from

(57:45):
your sports background into thisworld?

Speaker 2 (57:49):
A lot changed.
I've definitely taken somethingfrom it, but more of it I
actually had to dismiss.
Before I was a filmmaker.
I played tennis and I trainedprofessionally to do that.
I played in high school, Iplayed in college and I played
professional for a very shortamount of time Before my illness
, which is actually the thingthat stopped me from playing
tennis and got me intofilmmaking.
Oh, wow, okay.

Speaker 1 (58:11):
So big connection right there.

Speaker 2 (58:13):
Yeah, yeah, it's a whole story between like tennis
at 18, playing fresh at 18 andthen getting sick at 18.
Amazing and a big gap beforebecoming a filmmaker.
But what tennis did teach meplaying sports professionally
and training professionally wasthe idea that anything's

(58:35):
possible I'd like.
Playing a sport at a very highlevel is, like, very, very
difficult.
Very, very few people can do itand I've learned.
The reason most people can't doit isn't doing talent, it's
just your ability to beconsistent and work hard.
That's it.
I didn't start playing tennisuntil I was 14 years old.
You need to be in order to playprofessionally.
You have to start playing atlike three years old.
I was 10 years behind the ball,but I was just like I'm going

(58:59):
to do this and I'm going to getup every day and I'm going to go
train, train, train, train,train.
Everybody said, stop it, you'renot going to do it.
But by mind I was thinking Ithink if you just keep doing it,
you'll eventually have to reachthat level.
And I didn't go pro at 16, likea lot of pros, view, I went pro
at 18.
I was two years behind.
But you just keep doing it.

(59:20):
It compacts.
So when I lost that and theycouldn't do it anymore, I wasn't
afraid to touch filmmakingbecause I knew I had done
something as competitive as asport.
There was no way I was going tobe afraid of something as
competitive as art.
So it did teach me do anything.
You just got to be consistent.
Careers do take off.
It might not be today ortomorrow, but it does take off.
You just can't stop and that'swhat sports taught me.

(59:44):
However, I tried to apply whatthe mindset that a lot of
athletes have, this kind of likewake up and grind mindset.
It does not translate to art inthe same way.
Art.
Sometimes we had to sit downand smell the roses and that
will influence your next piece,and it doesn't feel like you're
working hard.
I was like when I first startedfilmmaking, all I knew was

(01:00:04):
sports and then I thought I'msitting here doing nothing, so
I'm not writing today or I'm notdoing anything.
I just isn't right.
I feel like I'm putting in thework.
It's like what are you going todo?
Write for nine hours.
I remember my schedule fortennis went from in college.
It was from 12 to almost 10 atnight, not 9 30.

(01:00:26):
You can play sports all day,because there's a thing you got
to do to train for it.
In the morning we had Olympicweightlifting that we had lunch,
then we had I had practicebefore the actual practice and
then I'd stay through thewomen's practice and then I'd
use the ball machine.
Then I'd go back to the gymagain, then I would do X amount
of miles on the bike.
It's like you can do this allday.

(01:00:47):
You can't make art, you can'twrite for nine hours, you can't
like you can shoot something ona set day for like 15 hours, but
that's just the set day.
You got to do all this work toget to that point.
You have to sometimes stop andgo for a walk and have a good
meal and watch a TV show andrelax.

Speaker 1 (01:01:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
Spend some time doing things you like, yeah, and it
all counts towards yourexperience as an artist.
So most of my sports mentalityI actually have to toss out.
What it did teach me was justbe consistent.
Be consistent, just acknowledgewhat it is that is actually
worth doing and the things thatfeel like a waste of time.

(01:01:25):
For sports is actually amassive plus for art.
You have to just go live yourlife.
You can't make.
I think you have a tougher timemaking great art when you're
not maturing as a person, andmaturing as a person requires
getting outside and living life,even if that means sitting down
and doing nothing.

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
I love that.
Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.
You know, obviously, the corediscipline of what it is to
achieve something, especially ina high level sport to be to
become a pro at 18 is no smallfeat.
That is an incredible testamentto your own consistency in the
discipline, especially startingas late as you did, so that is

(01:02:08):
not something to win.
That, even like a tennis,though, is like you don't know
what pro tennis players do youknow, as far as listening.
It's crazy, and but to yeah, sothat that is of course.
It's like, yes, that is truly afoundation to anything.
It's like you said nothing'simpossible.

(01:02:30):
If you work and stay steady onthe course, then you will get
there.
It's like when you know theresult of these actions is this.
The timeline technically iskind of irrelevant, because you
know if you're going to do itit's going to happen, so just
don't stop.
But the problem is people getin their head about stopping.
But yes, it's definitelyinteresting to hear that

(01:02:52):
perspective of how, like, yes,sports life is intense because
it's physical, and physicalitydemands activity.
It demands, you know, itdemands this.
There's no, there's no realneed for emotional or mental
stability.
As long as you can just getyour head in the game and bust

(01:03:13):
it out for the game period andyou see it across the
professional sports world, allacross the gambit.
You know a lot of the absolute.

Speaker 2 (01:03:22):
You can go.
I'm having a terrible day,still better than Jim.
You still got to go lift theweights.
You still got to go hit theball a thousand times, you still
got to be thinking of 10terrible things that are going
on in your life.
You still got to practice it.
Is this system as right as youto and intense?
Yeah that's exactly it.

(01:03:43):
It doesn't exist and filmmakingand art like it does, you'll
have these mental and emotionalblocks.
That's not like.
I didn't make this piece forlike three and a half years, so
there's just this emotionalthing.
If I had that going on in myhead when I was playing tennis,
it did not matter, Because youjust turn it off.

Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
You just turn it off and you know what you got to do
and that's exactly true.
But and but.
Like you said, in the art worldnot just filmmaking across the
gambit you are in the businessof translating emotional and
mental thoughts into into life,into real world.

(01:04:23):
It doesn't matter the mediumthat you're transferring, and to
be able to do that effectivelyyou need to have, first of all,
knowledge to translate it fromhead to right and secondly, the
ability to actually go throughit, like you said before, like
stare it in the eyes and cryover the keyboard if you have to
, but get it out there, you know, and yeah, and just like, get

(01:04:46):
your thoughts to paper, get yourthoughts to whatever it needs
to get to.
But that requires you to be init.
You can't turn it off, you needit on.
So and if you don't have thatbackground to really work on it,
it does, it doesn't work.
You know you get right rock Ifyou just do and do and do sure,
maybe you can get technicallygood, like you can master every

(01:05:09):
setting there is and get everycopy, every look that has ever
existed and but right, you'llnever get that content like the
actual meat and potatoes, thestory out.
If you're not able to let the,the true creativity will never
work if you don't have to end aworld in in line.

Speaker 2 (01:05:33):
I completely agree.
Well, sometimes a lot of makingout is just sitting still and
looking inward as you sit in theedge of your bed and think
about stuff, and it doesn't feellike work, but it's the most
important part is you can feelguilty to sometimes just doing
that, doing that stuff, justlike I need to feel like I
learned not to feel guilty aboutit.
I go oh, I'm feeling terribletoday, I'm not going to go do

(01:05:55):
this or that, and then but I'lltake the time to process the
emotion Later I go oh, this isgoing to help writing about this
character somewhere down theroad, or right.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
It always regurgitates back up.
Yeah, always.

Speaker 1 (01:06:09):
You're feeling overwhelmed is not a cue to be
like well, I just got to roughit out and finish all the
million tasks that I have to do.
Correct, you're feelingoverwhelmed is a your brain
trying to tell you big stop,let's, let's, let's, get things
back in order.
Help, I'm drowning and you knowso.
It's like it's so.

(01:06:30):
Counterintuitive though you'reoverwhelmed because maybe you're
behind on a bunch of stuff anddifferent things or like things
are just not coming out of yourbrain because you are
overwhelmed, so you need to dothe counterintuitive thing Just
stop all of it and let yourselfcome back, deal it yeah.
Let yourself feel it and thenacknowledge it later Exactly,

(01:06:51):
and then you'll be able tosurprisingly come back and get
everything done almostseamlessly, because now your
brain is yeah recovered, insteadof you trying to scrape away
slowly, taking three times aslong to get half the product.

Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
By the time I looked all my stuff in the eye, I could
write that film in under anhour.
That's amazing, yeah it's likeoh all the work I went through
the last three years got done in30 minutes because I wasn't
afraid to just look it in theeye.
I mean, I was afraid.
I just did it anyway.
At some point you kind of haveto just build up the strength to
go.
It's going to be tough, but I'mgoing to try and face it

(01:07:28):
Awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:07:29):
Well, what is, what can people expect from you next?

Speaker 2 (01:07:33):
Yeah, I'm always making something new, always.
I've lately been into shortform stuff because it's so much.
It's just more self contained.
The last two pieces I did werecalled Love Town and those were
32nd pieces and it's meant to beedited into something larger
which I'm working on.
But I shot that in six hourswith a couple of friends and my

(01:07:57):
DP, forest Erwin, and just shotit in the Karen Park and Green
Point and I thought I could dothis every weekend.
Short form stuff is like the wayto go in terms of practicing
your filmmaking skills.
It is hard to always get on aset as a director, but if you
just gather just a couple offriends, the bare minimum if

(01:08:18):
your DP is what much as you area director perfect, shoot
yourself, get a friend thatcould be a non-actor, go find a
location and go figure out somesort of narrative.
It can be 15 seconds long, itdoesn't matter.
So I'm always making somethingand I'm looking more.
I'm looking forward to makingmore stuff like that which I
currently am.
Other than that, I'm writing afeature alongside Andrew Winder.

(01:08:39):
That's a horror movie and Ican't say much about it yet, but
we're writing that as we speak.
And then I'm writing my ownfeature, which is something I've
been wanting to write for awhile now, and Andrew will be
producing it, which is awesome.
And while I'm here, I want tospeak for Andrew as well, since
he couldn't make it.
Andrew is shooting oh Canada byPaul Schrader, his very last

(01:09:02):
film.

Speaker 1 (01:09:03):
That's insane, he starts shooting.

Speaker 2 (01:09:05):
Yeah, he's been in the work shooting in two days.
He's known Paul for quite sometime.
He used to be his assistant andhe's always just been in his
life.
Ever since, and after Andrewand I made this film, he showed
it to Paul and Paul really likedit and he had all these
questions about thecinematography.
And he liked it so much becauseI want you to shoot my last
film if you're into it, and he'snow shooting the last Paul

(01:09:27):
Schrader film.
But I just want to throw thatout there for anyone expecting
it.
Since he's not here.
What could people expect fromhim?
So look out for oh, canada, intheaters, whenever that is, and
know that Andrew Wonder shotthat film.

Speaker 1 (01:09:41):
Now, that's absolutely amazing, and
hopefully we can also speak tohim here.
You can tell us a little moreabout that experience.
Yeah, absolutely, but that isso cool, and then your film was
part of that.
I mean, I'm not surprised atall that that was the reaction
from this film.

Speaker 2 (01:10:02):
Honestly, but that was cool to know.
Paul Schrader saw a film I madefor my mom.
I didn't see that coming at all, and when he told me he asked
him to shoot his movie based offof that, I was so excited for
him Because to me it was justlike Andrew doing me a favor.
That's really what it was like.
I really want to make this film.
Don't worry, let's go do ittogether.
Because he knew how scared Iwas to actually do it and he

(01:10:24):
made me look in the eye and Igot the writing done.
He goes, we're shooting in twoweeks.
We will be there with Colleenand Calvin and we will shoot
this film in your house.
Send me the pictures of all thelocations.
We will get this done.
He like it just kind of felltogether Amazing, and it was
really just a favor from him tome.
As far as I saw it, it's just,you know, making little bits
with your friends and it'staking his career to somewhere

(01:10:46):
else and I'm like this isincredible, this is absolutely
amazing.
He is completely deserving ofit.
He is, you know, he gets tomake a film that's definitely
going to be putting himsomewhere else in his career.
That's just.
I hope that I wish the best forhim.
I hope that movie goes great.

Speaker 1 (01:11:05):
Yeah, and I can't wait to see where it takes you
and also I just a great exampleof a good director and a good
leader on how you prop your teamup like that.
You know, and how you reallyunderstand.
You know the team aspect ofwhat you got going on and I
think that is also veryadmirable quality.

(01:11:25):
It speaks highly of you.

Speaker 2 (01:11:28):
No, thank you very much.
Yeah, I film is supercollaborative and I just like to
do with my friends forever, ifI can.

Speaker 1 (01:11:36):
Say you and me both, you and me both, and you know
we'll make friends.
I mean, finally, like mindedpeople.
That's what it is to create arttogether, right, yeah,
absolutely.
And now, now it's like withyoung filmmakers who may be
tuning in trying to learn aboutfilmmaking and just get
perspectives of people who aremaking moves like us, like us,

(01:11:59):
you know, and like you makingmoves now make, bringing things
into fruition.
What would your best advice beif to tell them may.
They may be starting out andjust in the beginning of their
journey, maybe something youwish you knew.

Speaker 2 (01:12:14):
Um, consume a lot of art and consume a lot of life,
and I don't care what the mediumis, it doesn't have to be
filmic, and you can be intodesign, you can be into painting
, you can be into fashion, youcan be into video art versus
like a traditional narrativestructure, you need to
photography.
Whatever it is, you shouldconsume a lot of it and just

(01:12:39):
acknowledge what you like andwhat you don't like.
The reason I say this is thatif you can just acknowledge what
it is that you like like maybeyou like this movie, or maybe
you didn't like the movie butyou liked a certain scene and
then try to understand why youliked it and it can be a very
simple answer.
You can go I just like thecolors in that scene, that's all
.
Or you didn't like a paintingand you go I don't like the way

(01:13:01):
it made me feel, or maybe itdidn't make me feel anything at
all.
Acknowledge that as well,because that's your taste.
And if you acknowledge thisacross whatever it is you're
consuming and you just writethem down, you will learn what
it is you like and don't likeand take all the stuff you like
and try and put it in your movieand you will feel like you and
then you can just develop thatover time It'll begin to like

(01:13:24):
smooth out.
I love Wong Kar-Wai films.
I love Wong Kar-Wai films.
Happy Together is my favoritemovie.
It is sensitive and a lot ofthe ways that my films are
sensitive I take heavyinspiration from him.
I also like Quentin Tarantino,which is severely different, and

(01:13:45):
I like him for a completelydifferent reason.
And at some point, if you learnall my influences, if you knew
them and you looked at my movies, you'd see they're all in there
.
That's my case and even thoughI haven't done anything like
Quentin Tarantino just yet, I'mplanning to If you watch a Wong
Kar-Wai film and you look at myfilms, you go, I see the overlap
.
The colors I like to use in myfilm come from his DP,

(01:14:07):
christopher Doyle.
They love colors, I love colors, so I just put them in my films
and have to be a particularreason.
Well, he's that color for thatreason and that color for that
reason.
It's just.
I really love them and I likemy films colorful and that's it
and it's.
Don't be afraid to likesomething even if you think it's
silly, and don't be afraid todislike something even if
everybody else likes it.
And if you like something today, don't be afraid to hate it

(01:14:30):
tomorrow and vice versa.
You will develop your taste somuch quicker when you just
acknowledge what it is you like,and it doesn't matter if
everyone else is this director,it's so good, it's gonna be so
amazing.
How could you not love it?
You can say if you say I hateCitizen Kane for X amount of
reasons, it's fine.
Acknowledge it.

(01:14:51):
Even if everyone else puts youdown, say I don't like that
movie, or I don't like thatpainting, or I don't like that
artist, or I don't like thismusician, it's fine.
Who you are is the thing thatwill shine through.
It's the thing that people willalways acknowledge you for.
So acknowledge it.

Speaker 1 (01:15:07):
I love it.
I think that's a.
That is a perfect note to endon, because I can't even add
anything to that.
It's so true, it's so well said.
Yeah, I mean, with that being,I've had a great conversation.
I feel like we can just keepgoing for a while, but we really

(01:15:28):
reached our time here.
With that being said, would you, can you tell us where people
can find you, keep up with you,maybe find the film and just see
, just stay on track with thethings you guys, you got coming
up.

Speaker 2 (01:15:44):
Absolutely.
First of all, I've had a greattime too.
Thank you for bringing me onhere and chatting.
This was a blast.
I definitely could talk to youfor hours and hours, and hours
and I would if you let me, but Iknow we have a time limit.
If you want to find me, myInstagram, where I'm really
active, is at okaydestin that'sjust the letters, okay, and then
Destin is spelled D-E-S-T-Y-N.

(01:16:06):
Follow me, dm me.
I'll chat to you.
I'll chat to anybody.
I'm a people person.
I'm very extroverted.
My website isDestinFullerHopecom and, yeah,
just reach out.
I love to talk to you guys, ifyou guys are listening at all.
I talk to any filmmaker.
I'll talk to anybody aboutanything.
My film is currently on thefestival circuit, so it's not

(01:16:28):
out at the moment, but if you'dlike to see it, please come to
one of our festivals.
The next one is in Tallgrass,which I believe is somewhere on
the seventh.
I believe we have to doublecheck Tallgrass Film Festival in
Wichita, kansas.
If you're out there, pleasecome see it.
We'll put out the schedule soonand then right after that we go
to Bend, oregon, for the BendFilm Festival running from the

(01:16:51):
12th to the 15th.
We also have an Instagram forthe film.
It's called A Part of you At APart of you, with a period
between each word where weupdate everyone on everything.
And if you'd like to see thefilm, if I'm in good mood I'll
just send it to you.

Speaker 1 (01:17:09):
So DM me, if you wanna see it.

Speaker 2 (01:17:11):
We'll see what happens.
Ha ha.

Speaker 1 (01:17:15):
Amazing, amazing, yeah, no, please check out the
film.
You'll love it.
It has such a cool vibe andsuch a powerful message and, as
always, you can always follow usat Vision Maker Podcast and see
any of our other projects atVision Maker Productions on

(01:17:35):
Instagram and across socialmedia, and just be sure to like,
comment, subscribe.
Please leave any extraquestions that you may have or
just send in the comments andany questions you'd like to hear
from in the future, and thankyou so much for joining us.
It was a pleasure, dustin.
Thank you so much for being on.
Pleasure is all mine.

Speaker 2 (01:17:57):
Thank you, we're signing off.