#101 Ron Lang's Evolution in Sport and Storytelling

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (01:15):
Thank you, thank you.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
All right, we are live for yet another episode of
the Vision Quest podcast.
It's been a couple weeks, Ithink we got pretty busy, but we
have a great guest on tonight.
We are joined by none otherthan coach and also author, ron
Lang.
I appreciate you joining us.
How are you doing, sir?

Speaker 3 (02:25):
Doing great.
I'm glad to be here.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
That's awesome.
That's awesome.
We talked a little bitbeforehand and, kind of talking
to you, it sounds like you and Iare kind of the same wavelength
about a lot of things,especially when it comes to the
growth of the sport.
Right, ultimately, you wrotethis book obviously to help kind
of grow things as far as thatgoes.
But we're going to touch onthat, we're going to get on to

(02:47):
the the growth thing.
But we got to talk about youfirst.
Not everybody knows you.
Not everybody knows what yougot going on.
So where did you get yourstartings in sports?
Where are you from first?

Speaker 3 (02:58):
so I'm.
I was born and raised inlouisville, kentucky, and then,
but I didn't get my wrestlingstart until I lived in Indiana.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
Eighth grade year.
I think it was right.

Speaker 3 (03:09):
Yeah.
So my sixth grade year we movedacross the river from
Louisville to southern Indianaand, as a lot of people right, I
got my start by being cut fromthe basketball team or another
sports team.
Right, that's actually a funnystory.
We're practicing and somebodycame in and talked to the coach.

(03:30):
We're scrimmaging, and I pickedup my dribble and I had one
foot behind the three-point lineor on the three-point line and
I look over and I see him and itlooked like he wasn't paying
attention.
So I step back, I travel and Itake.
Like he wasn't paying attention.
So I stepped back, I travel andI, I take the shot.
So not only did I miss the shot, I traveled, he saw the whole

(03:50):
thing and I got cut.
But we actually had a good team.
Our eighth grade team won thestate tournament that year.
So nice, yeah.
So they were good.
But I ended up going towrestling, had a friend of mine
talk me into it and then, beforeI ever even got to be on the
mat, I ended up breaking myankle.
So my freshman year was reallymy first year of wrestling.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
Right on.
Okay, so let's talk.
How big were you your eighthgrade year?

Speaker 1 (04:19):
You're a pretty tall guy.

Speaker 3 (04:21):
Yeah, so I'm about six foot.
Okay, my freshman year Iwrestled 171 pounds.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
Okay, okay, man's weight, I'm sorry, man's weight
right away.

Speaker 3 (04:34):
Oh yeah, I was, I was , uh, I was pretty hefty.
I was a husky kid, right.
But I'll tell you, the funniestthing about that was I go to my
first.
It was a five-way, we called it, you know, five duels.
And so we're in the weigh-inlines and I see this guy.
He's all yoked up, he's got amustache, and I'm thinking, okay

(04:54):
, I wonder what weight he is.
But like you said it was a man'sweight, he was my weight.
So not only is he in my weightclass, he's the first guy I have
to wrestle when I'm not.
So I go out there, I'm likejust do what you can do.
And the guy's a fish, right he.
He shoots in on me, I turn himover, I pin him.
He wasn't very good.
I get four fits the rest awayand I'm thinking I'm, I'm the

(05:17):
man I've got, yeah.
So I probably won about sixmatches the rest of the year the
story of my life too, withwrestling.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
I mean, I was.
I quit my junior year but Icouldn't.
I couldn't string wins togetheronce I got into high school.
Man, youth wrestling was ablast.
I got up in high school godforget about it.
I was not.
I was not good at all.
So I can equate to how the, howmany wins you had.
I think after I got to myjunior year I maybe accumulated
12 wins.
That's three years of highschool wrestling.

(05:48):
It was not.
That was not impressive at all.
So your, your upbringings wereobviously athletics.
That were your parents inathletics no, not really.

Speaker 3 (05:56):
Uh, now, they weren't opposed to to me being in
athletics, but uh, like, forinstance, I always wanted to
play football and we didn't havea team.
When I lived in Louisvillebefore we moved, we didn't have
a team.
Uh, and the year I begged andbegged, I went to our principal,
asked, you know, I kind ofcampaigned to have a football
team.
I moved to southern Indiana,they had one.

(06:17):
Yeah, so I was able to play.
But but back where I moved from, they started that that year I
left.
I'm like great, I'll never getthere.
So and we actually played withthese guys too.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
Oh really, no kidding .
Yeah, so kind of going throughhigh school.
Obviously you like sports,you're athletic, and what did
that lead to you?
Was this something like I wantto go to college and I want to
do this sport?

Speaker 3 (06:53):
Or were you kind of weaning off of sports and just
wanted to go to school?
No, I was a football guy,thankfully, I always wanted to
coach as well, and so I went toUniversity of Kentucky, worked
with the football team,continued to be involved with
the coaching aspect and thenwhen I got out of school so
that's kind of a funny storyPeople like well, why weren't
you a GA?
At the time, the division onecoaches were not coming from
graduate assistant positions,they were coming from the lower

(07:15):
ranks.
You coached and recruited yourown position.
So I mean, I coached in Maine,coached in Northern Indiana,
coached different colleges, andthe funny story a lot of people
don't know about, even my familydon't know a whole lot about.
But I had the opportunity tocoach, to be a GA with Nick
Saban at Michigan State.

(07:37):
Ooh, nice, so you know you sayyou don't have regrets in life,
but I had some conversationswith some people there and some
other folks and I took I madethe decision to go coach my own
position, stay coaching my ownposition and not be a graduate
assistant.
And next thing you know, hegoes to lsu.
Um, there's a, there's a lot.

(07:59):
I mean, people have differentthoughts about this, but a lot
of his coaching staff were GAsfrom different places that he
was given a chance to and it waslike man, but you know it is
what it is and still enjoyed it.
Now I'm in Texas, so I ended upmoving from the college ranks

(08:19):
to the high school ranks.
What better place right ThenTexas high school?

Speaker 1 (08:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (08:25):
And my wife's from this area.
So okay, I did some high schoolcoaching as well in the state
of texas so what with yourcoaching?

Speaker 2 (08:33):
um your coaching background?
What did?
What sport did you find morefulfilling to coach?
Was it just football youcoached, or were you coaching
other sports?

Speaker 3 (08:42):
so you know it's hard to say right.
It's almost like when you saywhat's your favorite kid?
Sure, I mean, there's a lot ofgreat things with it.
At the end of the day, coachingthe best part about coaching is
seeing that development withthe players, not just on the
field or on the mat but withinthemselves.

Speaker 2 (09:02):
A hundred percent.

Speaker 3 (09:02):
And so you know, really, the sports almost,
almost inconsequential, right,because you're, you want to.
My goal was always to for myathletes to either fulfill or
exceed their potential, whetherit be athletically or personally
, whatever it may be, even likewe were talking about, about, uh

(09:24):
, colleges earlier.
So you have the potential to bea division two guy and all of a
sudden you become a divisionone wrestler because of your
effort and everything else thatyou've put into it.
I mean, those are the thingsthat I enjoy and, and I'll tell,
one of the biggest joys in lifeas a whole for me is so.

(09:47):
I used to coach a high schooloutside of Austin, texas, and I
was driving through and I stopat a gas station and one of my
old players comes coach and justthem calling me coach and then
telling me and they weren't evenmy position, but telling me the
impact I had on them and thisis 10 years after the fact and
then introducing me to theirkids.

(10:08):
I was like that that was reallycool.

Speaker 2 (10:11):
I can agree with that .
So I remember when Liam firststarted, I was helping coach a
youth program and I tried not tofocus on him because he's my
kid.
He can go over there and dosomething with the other coaches
, right?
But I still took.
I still took the.
It wasn't a position, but Istill took the job seriously.
I still went in trying toencourage and enlighten kids as

(10:31):
much as possible.
And just, you know, hard workit'll get you places you
wouldn't even believe, right?
And I remember there was thismama came up to me and I wore
sweatshirts.
Right, I wore a hoodedsweatshirt all the time of
practice.
I made it look like I was thisguy trying to sweat off pounds,
like I'm the high school guy inthe room kind of helping out.
You know, when I'm just a32-year-old, 34-year-old fat guy

(10:52):
that's just walking around inthe restroom helping kids.
And by the end of the season Ithink it was the end of that
season that kid would work outat home and when he worked out
at home he wore a sweatshirt allthe time, always would have
wore a hooded sweatshirt.
The mom came up to me.
She goes he has never worn ahooded sweatshirt like this
until he came in the room andmet you and he's been wearing

(11:14):
hooded sweatshirts all the time.
It works out.
I loved that so much.
I was like this is I.
I took a lot from that.
And then soccer I had anothergreat story that came with it.
So it's always the impact thatyou have in these kids being
able to not and not I don't likethe word influence, because I
think influence gets thrownaround a little bit too much but
encourage them.
You encourage them to do thingsthat are that might be a little

(11:36):
more difficult than what theywould actually try to do, and
you plant that seed in theirhead to make them successful.
To me, I think is the bestthing that I could probably feel
out of coaching kids, no matterwhat.
I don't.
I just got done telling ourkids the other night it was
three, nothing, it's halftime.
Let's go and look at thescoreboard.
I don't care about thescoreboard.
I care about how you guys areprogressing.
I care about how you guys lookright now because they're all

(11:58):
down like, oh, we're losing howkids are, so let's ignore it.
You know, as much as I want thew, I want to see you guys doing
the things that we've beentalking about, so I can totally
agree with that.
And taking not doesn't matterwhat sport you're in, as long as
you know that you're in, you'reencouraging these kids to do
better, not only in sports butin life.
That's the biggest portion, sothat's awesome.

(12:19):
Again, I think you and I havethe same kind of thought process
when it comes to this, so nowgo ahead.

Speaker 3 (12:30):
The score is three nothing, right?
That's what's so wonderfulabout sports, is there's life
lessons, right?
Whether they're up threenothing or down three nothing.
I mean it sounds verycliche-ish, but there'll be
times in your life you're upthree nothing and you think
things are great and they canturn on a dime or the or the
opposite.
Right, you just got to keeppushing, you got to keep
grinding, you know that's right.
So so.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
So coaching has taken you some places.
I mean, were you, um, were youever in a position where you
were just like, nope, I'm good,I don't want to coach anymore?
And I kind of ask athletes thisa lot too where you think you
wanted to hang your coaching hatup and kind of be done with it?
Did you ever have a moment,while that things got kind of
rough, in any coaching position,where you're just like no,

(13:09):
after this year I'm good, butthen you decide not to?

Speaker 3 (13:14):
Well, and I'll tell you you were talking earlier One
of the things that popped intomy head was I take the word
coach very seriously.
I take that title veryseriously.
I hate when don't get me wrongyou get volunteer guys called
coach.
I think they've earned thatbecause they're putting in the
time trying to help.
But when you get we talkedabout that I'm doing some

(13:36):
recruiting stuff A lot of peoplecall themselves a coach, right,
and they don't even know thedaggone game.
I mean just from a fanperspective, and that drives me
crazy.
But I take, I take the titlecoach very seriously.
Um, and I gotta tell you I didget out of it for a little while
, um, completely, and that wasbecause of the politics involved

(13:59):
in it.
You know, and you're, you'regetting, I mean there's some
stories I don't even want to getinto but you get people hired
as as certain positions basedoff of some very seedy things.
Yeah, and it really soured mebecause you know, you're like
this person's supposed to be aleader of young men, because at

(14:19):
the time I was coaching football, I was like this is not a
leader of young men.
The time I was coachingfootball, I was like this is not
a leader of young men.
So you know, like I said,there's things that you could
look back and say you regret ordon't regret.
I mean, I may not have done thesame thing if I go back and did
it again, but I don't regret it, I just so.
So I did get out of it for awhile.
Actually, wrestling was whatbrought me back into coaching.

(14:44):
Okay, nice.
So that's another beautifulthing that wrestling has given
to me has brought me back intoit.
I get a guy that I coach at thehigh school level.
I started a couple of programshere in Texas, a couple of high
school wrestling programs andone was at a military academy,
nice, and the kid's out ofOklahoma.
So actually check this out.

(15:05):
So actually that's that's checkthis out.
So we got kids from all overthe world and we I struggled for
a while to try to get.
I was coaching football there.
It's here where I live now, butmy, my wife's from this area.
So I said I want to get backinto coaching.
So I coached football overthere.
Man, I struggled and struggledand struggled, trying to get

(15:26):
them to start a wrestlingprogram and all of a sudden
somebody knew a guy named JesusWilson.
He's a Cuban refugee andactually there's a match with
him against Brands at one of theoh really.
I think it might have been PanAms or something.
It might even have been thetrials here, because he, he, he
came to the us.
So somebody found out about himthat hey, and this guy, you

(15:49):
know he's, he's training for theolympics and everything else.
So they said we're gonna starta wrestling program because
we've got this guy.
I'm like, hey, man, we've had aguy right, so jesus does his
thing for a year, kind of getsome kids together.
And then I take it.
And it was so cool because wehad kids from Oklahoma, ohio, we

(16:11):
had one kid Pennsylvania whodidn't stay long, we had a kid
from Alaska and we put this teamtogether.
We put a home duel together, wedragged the mats into the gym
and it was really neat, right.
And we ended up beating a team.
Uh, that was, I wouldn't saythey were a powerhouse or that
great, but they were in our area, they were considered one of

(16:33):
the better teams.
So we beat them in this dueland I'm like, hey, we're just
getting started, yeah.
So then christmas break happens, the kid from alaska, one of
the kids from ohio, like threeother kids, they don don't come
back to this military schoolit's like wow, but we had two
kids.
We ended up going to state.
We placed eighth in state thatfirst year.

(16:54):
We had two kids finish runnerup and both of those kids I
ended up taking to seniornationals.

Speaker 2 (17:01):
Oh nice, Very cool it was when it was in Pittsburgh.
Yeah, yeah, very cool to seniornationals.
Oh, nice, very cool.
It was when it was inpittsburgh, so, yeah, yeah, very
cool.
So so you found a moment andthen obviously, some redemption
wrestling brought you back in.
So when you're on this path,how long had you been thinking
about doing a book like where,where did this start to enter?

Speaker 3 (17:20):
so, uh, the book, the book stuff, this is you'll find
this funny.
The book stuff, you'll findthis funny.
The book stuff started probablyabout 10 years ago.
I used to tell my mother thesestories about kids say the
darndest things, right, yeah.
About adults saying dumb things, like an ovulating fan instead

(17:41):
of an oscillating fan, right.
And I would catch these things.
So I would tell my mom, soshe'd get a real kick out of
this, yeah, so she ended upgetting sick and I went and
stayed with her in the hospitaland we were just talking.
One day she said you know so,by the way, so I would write
these things down because Iwould forget half of them, yep,

(18:02):
and I'd be like mom, I hadsomething funny to tell you, I
forgot.
So I just started writing themdown, yeah, and so we just
started going through them onenight just to laugh.
You know some some levity inthe whole situation.
And, um, she said, you know youshould put that in book form
and publish it.
And so when she passed away, Isaid you know what I'm going to
do that for my mom.

(18:22):
And so that was my first book.
It's called Relative Genius, soit's kind of twofold meaning
right, because a lot of it's myor my wife's family.
They're our relatives, right?
But you know, people thinkthey're so intelligent, use big
words and then they use themincorrectly.
Right, there's, there's over.

(18:44):
I think there's 120 of them inthis book.
It's it's just a real sillybook.
But that's when I did that.
Um, I was gonna.
I did a book on thesoutheastern conference football
.
Okay, yeah and as I'm preparingfor that, I'm working out one
night and I'm on.
I'm on the elliptical, it'sit's dark all around and it was

(19:04):
late.
I just kept thinking aboutpeople in my life that are
successful To me.
They're successful because theymake an impact for the people
around them.
They're happy with what they'redoing.
If they wanted to go on a smallvacation, they had money to do
it.
They I mean, they weren't superwealthy, but they were doing

(19:25):
well.
And so I wrote a book calledunveiling success, because to me
, success isn't about money andfame and power.
Success is about being contentwith who you are and what you do
Correct.
And so I wrote about 10 peoplethat I knew that kept popping in
my mind.
So in the, you know, in the inthe in-between time of writing

(19:46):
that next book, I wrote a bookon on unveiling success.
Um, and to get to your pointabout wrestling, I always knew,
I know how great wrestling is.
I think anybody that gets intoit knows that it's one of the
best pursuits that you can beinvolved in as far as personal
development, and so I alwaysknew that I wanted to shout from

(20:08):
the rooftops.
You know what good wrestlingcan do for people, and so I just
wasn't sure when that would be.
I was actually going to write abook on adaptive athletics, but
we went out to the US Open in2022 and helped coach some guys
out there and I just said youknow what, Now's the time to do

(20:30):
it.
I started talking to more andmore people that I was going to
do this book and I just saidnow's the time to do it.
And so that's where the wholewrestling book came in and I
knew I was going to do oneEventually.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
I just wasn't sure and, yeah, you know, I I think
probably the us open 2022 iswhat spurred it to be as soon as
it is so folks, by the way, gocheck out the other books as
well, not not only talking aboutmatt return, but go check out
the other books too, becausethose actually sound pretty good
.
I'm gonna go look at those so Ihad no idea.

Speaker 3 (21:02):
I mean, um, you know, just a shameless plug here.
You can just go to Amazon, typein Ron Lang, and it'll bring up
the books.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
All the stuff that you got.
Awesome, yeah, I mean literally.
That's a.
So, like I told you, because Ihave the book book, but I can't
sit down and do that, so I'm ata computer screen all day, so I
always have the book pulled upon my computer screen going
through and reading.
So you've done a couple ofbooks.
So before this book, you've gotexperience.
Now, like you're the writingperson because I was going to

(21:30):
ask you a little bit like, whatis your when you decide to write
a book, what is your method ofhow do you write?
Like, what is your method ofputting things down that are up
here, down to there?
Obviously, I know you guys haveeditors and they have people
that help you know, with thebook itself, but your idea of
putting it down on paper is ityou?

(21:51):
Because you just said that youknow you wrote this stuff down
because you forget.
But when you're in the act ofactually writing the book, how
are you writing that book?
What is your process?

Speaker 3 (21:59):
So I really love that you asked that question, so I
have my process has.
So the success book was reallylet me talk to the people that I
continue to think about and letme get their story and I
learned a lot about them andsome of their things.
Like, my brother-in-law was oneof them.
He retired as a chief mastersergeant out of the Air Force,

(22:23):
but I learned that he was atmount penitubo when it exploded
last, before the base was closeddown, so they had a typhoon
come in and right after that thevolcano erupts and so there's
blankets of ash just falling andthey're like crushing cars.
I mean, some people even diedeverything oh my god his family

(22:44):
was there.
They evacuate.
He stayed behind as part of thethe I guess you'd call it the
cleanup crew.

Speaker 1 (22:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (22:51):
Secure the area, and that was something I knew.
You know the way he lives hislife and the things that he's
done in his life.
He was successful, but I didn't.
I had no idea that he was thereat that time, right.
That was a cool story thatunveiled itself, you know.

Speaker 1 (23:06):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (23:07):
So keep going, keep going I'm just going to say I
think I have a unique processbecause I really just have a
concept of what I want to do andI let the story write itself.
Okay, of what I want to do andI let the story write itself.

(23:28):
Um, so, like when I was at theSoutheastern conference campuses
.
I mean, I knew that I wanted toget around and see the campus,
talk about the culture, thetraditions and things like that,
but but things present itself,right.
So, um, an older couple that'sbeen to you know 200 straight
games or something, or you knowone time.
This is before I wrote the book.

(23:49):
My first game I took my wife towas a Texas A&M football game
and there was an older coupleand this lady was rubbing her
her rabbit's foot before, right.
So the story writes itself.
And I knew here, because all 50states in the United States are
represented in this book, Iknew that I had to keep an open

(24:12):
mind, because you can't searchfor certain stories.
You have to let it come to you,and then, as you talk to people
and I use it, like the storywrites I and I, I joke around
with words, like I romanticizeit a little bit.
Right, but you know, and wetalked about you and I talked

(24:33):
about this, the beauty ofpeople's stories is the humanity
and the personalization of it.
And so why mess with that?
Right, I mean, just just bereal and true that the story
presents itself, and and so I,you know, I kind of reorder it.
Right, and this book, I meanthere's different categories,

(24:56):
different chapters, things likethat.
But but the stories themselves,they really kind of write,
write themselves.
Right, I mean, let people knowabout others and I mean I'm not
the one, I didn't come up withthose people's story, they're
just telling me their story andI'm able to transition it into a

(25:16):
part of the book that makessense.

Speaker 2 (25:19):
So I think, with the humanity portion because we talk
, obviously it's about wrestlingand I think and maybe you agree
, but I think wrestling presentsthe most high of highs and the
most low of lows because, as youexplain in your book, this is
an individual sport as much asit can be a team sport.
At the same time, you knowthere's different angles to

(25:39):
everything when it comes to that, but ultimately it is one
person against one person.
Sometimes you got to be 10points ahead of the, but
ultimately it is one personagainst one person.
Sometimes you got to be 10points ahead of the ref, but
it's one person versus oneperson and that's all you have.
That's all you had to go by arethe skills that you were taught
and because you had to think infast pace, you had to you know.
So, humanity I think thehumanity level of it is just

(26:02):
knowing that these people wentthrough these struggles and they
survived and they made itthrough and it's not like they
were down in the dumps and justall I wish back in 88 in high
school I would have won thatstate championship.
I'd have a better job.
No, these people arepersevering through things that,
and sometimes it's not even thesport that brought them down.
It was a personal experiencethat happened while they're in

(26:22):
that sport that brought themdown a little bit.
But then, because they weresurrounded by good teammates
humanity they're surrounded bygood coaches humanity everything
around them had to be human,produced in order to bring
things either back to life or atleast back to level Right, and
I think that is the biggest.
Like I said, that's the biggestthing I take away from all of

(26:43):
it is that every single personin here has a struggle or an
accomplishment, a high that youknow they won this big
tournament and they worked sohard to get there and they
sacrificed time and hours to getthere.
There's a human level to everysingle thing that goes on
through this book.
That is, I think, like we said,is like the biggest portion of
this book.
The stories are great is likethe biggest portion of this book

(27:05):
.
The stories are great.
I mean the people you talkabout, from John Smith to
Pestrickoff.
You know there's all thesedifferent guys that you talk
about with coaches.
There's all these differentathletes that are in there and I
mean I think we've had a coupleof them on the show that you
talked about.
You know certain things likethat.
So when you're going throughthat process, especially with
this book, were you traveling?
I mean so you're going throughthat process, especially with

(27:26):
this book, were you traveling?
I mean so you, you spoken tocertain people like I don't
think I can sense through eachstory that you were there with
that person.
How much were you traveling toget this?

Speaker 3 (27:35):
a good amount.
Um, okay, I took a lot, of, alot of time from work.
It took me about a year and ahalf to research and write the
book, um, and I it's so closerto two years, but a year and a
half strictly focusing on thatuh, and it was with travel.
Um, I would try to, you know,obviously, put cities together,

(27:59):
yeah, in terms of, or events,right.
So there, at one point I wentdown, um, I went to university,
georgia's wrestling club.
Uh, they had a tournament goingon, um, while I was there.
So, you know, I I hit ironcladin alabama.
Uh, I'm at ut chattanooga umI'm there.
From there I worked my way up.

(28:20):
I went to university ofmichigan, I was at ohio state,
Went over and saw Rob Waller inPennsylvania, and so I'm trying
to tie all those together and beefficient with it.
Right, Because it was on my owntime and my own dime, but I
felt that it was important to beas many places as I could.

(28:43):
You mentioned John Smith.
John Smith was.
He was phenomenal.
Like I went down and he madetime for us.
I think John Smith's one of thecoolest.
I'd never met him before andhe's one of the coolest guys.
I mean, he's like, hey, youwant to set up a camera?
I'm like, no, we just talkright.
So we just walk around thefacility, uh, we go into a room,

(29:05):
sit on some couches and talkand um, so, and I'm glad I
brought him up because to mehe's just real right, I mean
he's a real guy and that's wherethese stories, for me, you,
just you, it, the humanity,comes out, because it is.
I mean, these are real people,real stories.

(29:27):
I'm not fabricating and and youknow, to be honest with you, I
don't think you could fabricatestore Like I mean, yeah, I could
probably make up a story, but Imean what's the point?
I mean there's, there's so manypeople that are being by
wrestling and are doing goodthings and and and improving
themselves from the sport.
You don't have to make thingsup right.

(29:47):
So so there was.
Unfortunately, I didn't get togo out to hawaii.
You know the people there, youknow the people that are
represented from hawaii.
Well, you mentioned peshikoff.
Alaska would have also beengood, but you know a lot of
these people you meet up with,like at the us open or some of
these national tournaments.
You know, and, yeah, lot ofthese people you meet up with,
like at the US Open or some ofthese national tournaments, you
know.
And so I didn't visit all 50states.

(30:09):
But but I mean, I truly didtalk with people, multiple
people, from all 50 states, andit was.
It was really cool.

Speaker 2 (30:17):
So with your, with your travels and things like
that, like, what did you find tobe your most challenging and
not even just on a like becausethey were hard to interview what
was the most challenging, uh,interview that you had as far as
getting to them, to finallygetting to be able to either sit
down or video or whatever.
Who?

Speaker 3 (30:36):
who's the most kind of like, I guess, busy, for lack
of a better term type personinterview man, um I don't know,
probably I hate to say this, Idon't want it to sound like a
bad lie but Chase, chase, pammy,out in Vegas, okay, gold Rush
Okay, but Chase is an awesomedude, I mean, and the funniest
thing is, you know, I had a hardtime pinning him down.

(30:59):
I'm even out there for 2023 USOpen in Vegas.
I went to his place.
I mean, he's running, he's sobusy, he's working with so many
kids, you know, and they werelooking for a different place at
the time and I saw him quicklyat the event.
Right, he had some kids at theUS Open, so I saw him quickly.
And then the funniest thingabout it is, when it was all

(31:25):
said and done, I published it.
I'm at tulsa nationals.
In january it might have beenthere, but I'm at tulsa
nationals and he's there with abunch of kids and we see each
other about 18 times.
Like that would have been nice.
When I was trying to pin youdown for an interview, right,
but so probably, chase, but, butit wasn't.

Speaker 2 (31:42):
You know he wasn't trying to, but he's just so busy
and speaking of that, I thoughtyou were going to say it was
Mike Krause, because that dudewas everywhere, the late, great.
That guy was everywhere.
So I started a tournament inthe Valley here called Sawdust
Nationals and the first yearthat we had it we had it at UWO
and I think I posted somethingabout it and he's like hey, man,

(32:05):
you need a clinician for beforethe tournament.
I was like I don't even knowthis guy is, but I see him a
little bit on instagram.
I was like all right, let's,let's see what's going on, you
know, and uh, pulled it up andhe was just watching videos of
the guy is everywhere and youhave it.
You know.
Obviously you talk about him inthe book and to me that just to.
That's why I was kind ofcurious, because some of these

(32:26):
guys are just so busy.
But they're not just busy,they're active, like they're,
they like doing what they'redoing, like in that capacity
yeah, so so Krause was, I mean,as you know he, he's energy
right like oh man.

Speaker 3 (32:40):
I mean just he never stops and it I mean what a shock
.
I mean, so I've.
I don't know if you've seenthis lately.
I don't know what this wholenew trend is about posting that
people passed away celebrities.
I've seen this a lot this pastweek and it's just a hoax, right
, but this was before.

(33:02):
That is when Krause passed andhonestly, I mean it took me by
surprise.
I'm like is this a hoax?
I agree, yeah, I mean I was likeit just didn't make sense.
No, but one thing I wanted tosay about that so when he passed
, obviously it was a sad moment,it wasn't good, but I was

(33:22):
honored to have him in the book,he was honored to be in the
book.
I was really pleased like hemade time because he thought it
was an honor and he knew thatthis was about growing the sport
of wrestling and he was reallydedicated to doing that himself
wholeheartedly yeahwholeheartedly if that guy, if
that guy was given a cape, thenwe told him, hey, go spread the

(33:45):
good word.

Speaker 2 (33:46):
He would have been all over the world if he had the
option to do it.
I mean that guy was crazyenergy, but yeah.

Speaker 3 (33:53):
And I loved it.
And so for me, what I alwaysevery one of these stories I
would send to people Now, thatwas a hard part too I would send
them to get verified.
Really, I didn't send it forpeople to rewrite it the way
they wanted.
I sent it like this is what I'mwriting.
Are the facts correct?

(34:13):
Yes, I misinterpret anything.
I need to make sure we're legithere, Right.

Speaker 2 (34:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (34:19):
People would want to do a little rewrite, so Krauss
is one of them, but he didn'twant to rewrite like make me
that superhero you're talkingabout his rewrite was hey, at
the end can you put that mikekraus brings the heat all the
time and I'm like of course Ican you know, because that was
kind of one of his things.

(34:40):
So yeah, so I think about it.
Not only was I proud to havehim in it when he passed and I
was like, I was like coach.
I was thinking to myself.
I was like coach, you'rebringing the heat.
Man, you're always going tobring the heat in the book
everywhere, everywhere.

Speaker 2 (34:53):
It's hot in heaven right now because that guy's
running practice.

Speaker 1 (34:57):
Yeah but you know uh.

Speaker 3 (34:59):
So it's kind of a legacy, for you know that his
story is in here and he, mikekraus, brings the heat.
So, like it's, I'm so glad thathe wanted to do that little
reroute, rewrite, you know,because we've got this.
Hey, you're always bringing theheat, mike Kraus.
There you go.

Speaker 2 (35:17):
Always, always, and that was the best thing about
him.
He did the same thing at thetournament, man and I.
So I funny story about himbecause the university was
closed at the time.
It was, it was a off schoolhour or off school time and they
had dorms open that we offeredup to some of the families, like
if you didn't want to pay for ahotel room, there are some of
these dorm rooms that you coulddo there that you can have.

(35:39):
And I told Mike I was like hey,we got these dorm rooms that are
in the university.
I was like do you guys want tostay there?
He's like absolutely not.
He's like I'm bringing my wife.
There's no way she's going tobe staying in those dorm rooms
at all.
He goes.
She would have my head on aplatter if I put her in a dorm
room.
He's like I already got a hotel, I'm sat.
And I was like all right, manjust trying to help out a little

(36:01):
bit, make sure you're all set.
But man, he didn't even care.
As soon as I walked in, he goeshey, man, thanks for offering
up that room.
He goes.
My wife still would havechopped my head off.
She was right back therehanding out pamphlets and stuff.
She was right there with him.
I mean, talk about a dynamicduo.
I mean those guys weretraveling, spreading everything
they could about getting thesekids into wrestling, and the

(36:25):
energy that they can bring islike holy cow.

Speaker 3 (36:26):
You, you know, at the end of the day, like you said,
you put a cape on him becauseall all of his effort.
But at the end of the day, thething that I appreciated the
most about him, and I appreciateprobably the most about anybody
, is when you're just real andtrue and there was no more, no
person more real than him.

Speaker 2 (36:41):
He just gave you who he was he didn't hide it,
because what you saw in thevideos, he you saw the same
thing.
If you're in front of him, itdidn't matter, it was the same
thing.
So that was awesome.
When I read, when I, when Ifirst started reading, I saw he
was and I was like man, this guy.
This guy is going to beremembered forever, as he should
be, because man talk about anicon of the sport.
So, as you're kind of goingthrough and and you're writing

(37:04):
the book and you're gettingstories together, were you ever
kind of stuck where you're likeman, I don't feel like I have
enough, I got to go get more.
When did you find that?
You're like I'm good, this isenough for a book.
Like, cause, there's so manymore people you can reach out to
.
I mean, you have all theseconnections too.
So where, where was your mind?
Where a stopping point would be?

Speaker 3 (37:25):
So I initially was only going to do one
representation from every state,and then I quickly realized
that I mean, that's just if Idid 10 representations in some
states or 10 examples, 10stories out of.
I mean, just throw Pennsylvaniaout there, right, yeah, you're

(37:46):
just scratching the the surface,but I couldn't have 10 in
pennsylvania and then one innevada, um, and so I started
saying okay, because then peoplestarted bringing stories to me
and people to me and I said,well, you know, I have to have
multiple um, so there's at leasttwo from from every state.

(38:06):
Yeah and um, but you're soright, I continue to think, and
I'm introduced to more and morepeople and more and more stories
here lately, so I'm like um,you know, maybe there's a sequel
in the mix.

Speaker 2 (38:20):
I was just going to ask that Is there a volume two
coming?
You know like.

Speaker 3 (38:24):
I think there's almost going to have to be right
, but, uh, my, my, my initialplan.
So, as you know, there's astandalone chapter for women's
and girls wrestling in the bookyes, correct, and there's
representation throughout thebook.
So it's not just that onechapter.
I mean the, the attributes thatwrestling provides isn't just

(38:45):
for men or males, it's forfemales.
So there's femalerepresentation throughout the
book and there's a standalonechapter.
And I say that because Ienvisioned the next book to be
strictly on female wrestling, soI don't know if that's the way
it's going to be or if it'lljust be, you know, a sequel that

(39:10):
has maybe some more female,although there's a lot of female
representation.

Speaker 2 (39:16):
Oh for sure, but now I mean having written the book.
What year did you actuallystart writing the book?
It was 10 years ago you started.

Speaker 3 (39:23):
Well, no, 10 years when I started the writing
process, the concept Telling mymother, all those things.
Yeah, yeah, 10 years when Istarted the writing process, the
concept.
Telling my mother all thosethings.
Yeah yeah, yeah, but it'sreally been longer than that
right, in terms of even writingthis book or the SEC book, like
it's been a lifetime, or since Istarted, for me, the

(39:44):
Southeastern Conference.
I was a Southeastern Conferencefan at four or five years old.
Okay, I remember 1980 watchingHerschel Walker play.
So I mean it's kind of alifetime of memories, traditions
, things, wrestling.
Obviously I didn't start foranother 10 years after that
compilation of the people I'vemet through the sport, my own

(40:08):
experiences, the kids I'vecoached, seeing different things
, families, how they are goingto tournaments and seeing people
from around the country.
So in a sense I mean it hasbeen since I started the sport.
Right, and knowing what thatdoes for me and the teammates I

(40:28):
had in high school Justthroughout the, the, the, the
life lessons that it teaches,and seeing that over and over
and over again puts my mind in afriend and a mindset right.
So, where I know that this isand that that was the purpose of
the book, right, like, yeah, Icould write about wrestling

(40:50):
stories, but the purpose ispeople need to know how great
the sport is.
If you stay in this sport for,say, it's one season as long as
you don't quit during the middleof the season, if you give it a
try, I promise you at somepoint in your life you're going
to overcome something.
Life you're going to overcomesomething or you're going to
accomplish something and you'regoing to say at least part of

(41:13):
that was from things that Ilearned in during wrestling so I
just brought that up to anathlete on our soccer team the
other night.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
Not an awesome soccer player, but the kid goes out
and gives it his all right whenyou put him out and I tell him
what position.
He may not even know how toplay it properly, but I know
he'll go out and he'll play hardright.
So we're talking a little bitafter the game.
Our jv tied and I was happywith that because I think we've
been getting beaten by like five, nothing, six, nothing, eight

(41:41):
to one, you know things likethat.
But talking to him out to theside a little bit and he was
bringing up that he was going tobe joining the air force and I
was like, interesting, you'renot in the greatest shape on the
planet and you're gonna have togo through some basic training
when you get there, no matterwhat it's like.
Hey, have you thought about, uh, joining wrestling at all?
It's like it would help you onyour journey if that's what you

(42:03):
because I think he's a, you knowhe's a senior this year I said
it would, I would help you onyour journey, kind of prepping
for that.
I said don't even worry aboutthe wins, go there for the
conditioning, go there for thegetting into shape and build
some character.
You know you might find alittle bit about yourself when
you're wrestling.
He goes no, I think I might dothat.
I might join some do wrestlingthis year.
His grandmother coaches ortaught Muay Thai.

(42:24):
I was like what you shouldn'teven be worried about it, you
know.
So he's like I might look intothat.
I might join some wrestling.
And so, in contrast of what youwere kind of talking about, the
timeline is especially with thefemale wrestlers, that it's
grown.
You know we talk about growingthe sport and honestly, and I'll
say until I'm blue in the face,until I go in my grave, that if

(42:46):
it was not for girls wrestlingand women's wrestling, men's
wrestling could possibly be inthe tank right now, you know.
So with that, with that thoughtis just how much more, now that
women's wrestling has grown,and the stories that have now
built because of that timeframeand all of the accolades that a
lot of these women athletesKylie Welkers, helen Morales and
all those guys that have nowcome up, adeline Gray those

(43:08):
stories that are out there, thatthat can help, like you said,
grow the sport even more,because every one of these guys
that has a story.
I mean, you, you talk to peoplethat that wrestled and they
don't do anything in wrestlinganymore.
You know that that.
But it was a part of their lifethat got them through.
You know, again, the humanitypart of uh, I struggled at work
but I knew that if I did my, ifI just got down and ground

(43:31):
through it, I would besuccessful.
And they were.
They wound up being some of thetop people in the company that
they're at, or they wound upbeing uh, uh, uh successful at
the business that they decidedto run.
Because of that grit and that'salso part of something in the
book is grit.
You know that's to me.
It takes a lot of time andeffort, and not only just grit,

(43:52):
but it takes a lot of personalperseverance to be able to get
through writing a book.
Because I mean, I'll tell youwhat, just trying to write a
paper as a high school kid andeven writing something now, it's
not easy.
So what were, I guess what wasthe biggest challenge of the
book itself and pushing throughsome of the of the writing of
the book?
Did you, did you think that uh,where everybody worries about

(44:12):
someone's gonna like it, butwere you kind of like I don't
know if people are gonna reallybuy this and buy into it, which
I everybody I've talked to sofar I know has it and they think
it's, it's a, it's a great,great read.
So where, where were some ofthe challenges you found?

Speaker 3 (44:27):
so the the biggest challenge for me was, with over
150 stories, getting them out,getting those, those folks to
read it and to quote unquote,verify it.
So I had, okay, you know, Ikind of had my schedule and then
I would have, I would have allthis listed out, yeah, and then
I I knew that I would have allthis listed out.

(44:48):
Um, and then I I knew that I hadto start breaking it down in
chapters, cause I mean just likewrestling itself, right.
So I mean, as you see in thebook, there I mean really there
could be thousands of attributesfrom wrestling virtues, values
that you draw from wrestling.
So I break that down and theneach chapter talks about three
of them, or it talks about anage group, and so the two

(45:13):
biggest challenges for me wereto where do I put these stories?
Is it an age group category oris it in a virtues of values
category?
Some of them they have multipleones, but then I also didn't
want to have, say, two from thestate of Iowa together in the
same chapter.

(45:33):
So I was going to break that up.
The other thing, but theverifying the stories, getting
people to understand that I'm ona timeline and I'm sorry but
it's not your timeline I needyou to read this, these three
paragraphs, and tell me if it'sfactual, the way I think it is.

(45:56):
And so you know when people arebusy don't get me wrong, I'm
not saying that they're outwatching TV and ignoring it, but
to get all of those back andsay, hey, you're good here, or
like there was one, for instance.
They felt like I kind of missedthe point.
Uh, it was a, it was a familyand some coaches and a parent.
Sure, I said, okay, it wasabout a kid.
And the kid was like I don'tknow if that's really what I

(46:18):
meant.
Okay, no problem, let's do itagain.
And because I wanted it to bereal and I wanted them to be
happy with it and and and, whenI say real, I mean at this point
, real is big for me, like ithas to be real and true.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
I agree.

Speaker 3 (46:34):
But at the same time, like my hand could be real and
you could say, oh well, yourthumbs bent or whatever, but in
my mind I might be thinkingsomething else.
So for this kid, especiallybeing a high school age kid,
yeah, I might be thinkingsomething else.
So for this kid, especiallybeing a high school age kid, I
want her, I want it to representthe way that she wanted it to
be represented.
So I wanted it to be real inthat manner too.

Speaker 2 (46:56):
Understood, understood and we talk about
growing the sport.
I mean, if you gave this bookand I'm going to attest to it
this way if you gave this bookto a kid who knows nothing about
wrestling right, because it'snot like you're, you're not.
The book isn't going throughterminology and talking about
you know that kind of thing.
It's it's the stories thatinvolve the sport itself.

(47:16):
If you gave this, this uh book,to a fifth grade kid and you
said, hey, read this, this storyright here, that kid could
possibly I don't care what sporthe joined, he could use that
story right there and be like Ican do this, that I, I am
capable of doing this and sogrowing and said that and they
could jump into wrestlingbecause of it.

(47:38):
So it's growing the sport thatway but at the same time it's
also growing kids confidence inthemselves within the sport and
life, just like we keep talkingabout.
So it was where were you kindof in seeing that vision as
you're putting these storiestogether like man, if I was a
kid right now and I read this,this would, I would definitely
I'd go through a brick wall forsomeone right now.

Speaker 3 (47:57):
You know definitely and and to be honest with you,
I'm so glad you brought that upbecause I guess you'd call it my
elevator speech or my tagline.
When, yeah, when I approachpeople, talk to them about being
in the book and all that, whatthey were like.
Well, some people I mean, ofcourse you're going to get mixed
reviews, right some people likeI'm not sure, well, you know
what, what do you mean and howare you going to grow wrestling

(48:19):
and other people would be allfor it.
But this was my vision.
My vision was this at the end ofthe day, I said, if nothing
else comes of this, this willmake this book a success, and
that is if a club coach or ahigh school coach could take my
book and say hey, susie, johnny,mom, dad, you all read any

(48:42):
chapter out of this book andtell me why you wouldn't try
wrestling.
Then we're good, I'm asuccess'm happy, then it's, it's
done its job, and so, at theend of the day, that's that's my
thing.
I think you could choose anychapter.
Now, the secret to that is uh,I'm I'm johnny and I'm going to
look at the table of contentsand I want to see something that

(49:04):
sticks out to me.
So it is going to be prevalent,whatever chapter they read.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (49:09):
But I challenge anybody, anybody at all.
You may never heard ofwrestling and you may not, or
you may dislike wrestling.
I challenge anybody to readthis book or a portion of it.
And number one say it's notentertaining.
Number two say it's notinspirational, I mean.
Number three say it's notmotivational.

Speaker 2 (49:30):
I mean it's because it's real people doing great
things in a difficult sport, soyeah, yeah, no, and I
wholeheartedly agree, and Ithink that we kind of talk about
the fact that this isn't a bookthat's written in succession
like you put it together.
You know you still have to.
You, you had a rhyme and areason of how you wanted things
to be in here.
But you don't have to readstory one, story two, story

(49:52):
three, story four.
You can read story one, thenyou go to story 20, you come
back, go to story 12.
So this book is a book to beable to go and and literally
inspire yourself.
Like you said, you could go toa tag, you could go to a um, a
chapter within here.
If that chat, if you like whatthat chapter says, just the
title said you could go to a tag.
You could go to a um, a chapterwithin here, if that chat, if
you like what that chapter says,just the title of it, you could

(50:12):
go right to it and startreading it.
You know.
So this that's what makes to methat, because of the attention
span that I have and the thingsthat I have to do, that's also
what makes this book so mucheasier than uh, you know, going
reading a Stephen King book thatyou have to keep track of
what's going on throughout.
If you can't read fourparagraphs in a row, you have a

(50:34):
problem, because this is exactlywhat this is for To read the
story.
Take something from a story,whether you can apply it to
yourself or you start applyingit to yourself, you could go to
another story and do the samething.
You don't have to go insuccession so that I, as a
reader, can appreciate that inthe way that it takes you
through.
So with the, with putting thebook together, you have to sell

(50:57):
a book, right, you have to.
You have to be able to marketand you have to be able to not
just have it on Amazon, but yougot to put it out there.
But you've partnered up withsome really great people out
there.
We're talking about Rudis andthere's a couple other ones.
Who are your shirts made by?
Again, blue Chip, cliff Keen,cliff Keen, that's right.

(51:17):
You partnered up with somereally good people to get this
put together.
Talk about the aspect of gettingthe book out there.
Now.
You got it all together.
You got your stories together.
What was that like?
Trying to get this market?
You've done other books before,so you kind of knew.
But we're talking about thewrestling community.
This is a little different sothat's the hardest thing.

Speaker 3 (51:35):
I mean.
Some people probably think thatin high school I like writing
term papers and all that.
You know I was the type of kidthat, oh, it's due tomorrow at 8
am.
Okay, it's midnight, I betterstart writing this thing and
that's how it was but.
But the hardest part of thiswhole thing is the marketing and
getting the word out there andyou can say what you want and

(51:56):
people always say, well, it's upto you.
No, it almost.
In any endeavor other thanwrestling, you rely on others.
You have yes you got, and sothat's been some of the
frustrating parts for me is that, oh, this one says we'll do
this and we'll do that and wehave all these numbers and don't
you worry, we've got you inthis state and that hadn't been

(52:16):
the case.
But I mean not here to benegative throw stones, but we
have to get the word out.
I think part of it is I.
I had a a very prominent clubcoach, um, if I told you his
name, you know.
But he says people, I saw himat ncaa's this past year.
He says, uh, people don't,people don't want you to bank

(52:38):
money.
So you know, I'm here to saythis.
I'm not, I'm not on thepositive side whatsoever, I'm.
I mean, I'd love to break eveneventually, but that's not even
the point.
I'm just telling you becausethat's I just.
I just tell you what's up.
Um, yep, yep.
What's what this is about isgetting the word out to help
grow the sport, because, like Isaid, in the end of the day you

(53:01):
can give this to to somebodythat's just thinking about
wrestling, correct, and or evenif they knew nothing about it,
and say, like you're talkingabout this kid that's going into
military.
You know, there's a story inhere and I'm glad I kind of got
back to this and I thought and Iactually talked to the high
school coach today right,there's a story in here about a
navy seal.
I don't know if you've gottento it yet I'm gonna let you tell

(53:23):
it either wayso this high school coach that I
talked to today was a GA forGable in the late 70s, and so I
talked to him and he tells meabout this kid.
He said he wasn't very talentedbut he was the hardest working
kid I've ever had Bar none, barnone.
Turns out that this kid becomesa SEAL and he didn't become a

(53:47):
SEAL right away, he struggled.
Turns out that this kid becomesa seal, and he didn't become a
seal right away.
He struggled.
He went through some strugglesnot getting through the first
buds test and all that you know.
So his name's not revealed inthe book because he's still
active.
Uh-huh, yep, yep.
But here here's one thing Iwant to say what was really cool
.
This high school coach I talkedto today, which was his high
school coach, he told me thisstory and so it wasn't this past
year, um, 2023, um, at virginiabeach.

(54:12):
He takes some kids there andhere they are uh, advertising
you want to be a seal, you know,want to be a marine, because
they know wrestling.
Will I mean what great recruitsfor that right.
So he goes up to the navy guysand they're talking about being
a seal and everything else andhe says, hey, do you know so and
so, and they both stopped andlooked at each other like how

(54:37):
did you know him?
They were in awe of this guybecause he's like one of in in
the seal community.
Apparently he's.
He's pretty well thought of and, like I said, I can't say his
name because he's still activefor his own safety.
But yeah, he's, he's the studLike he.
He runs those ultra marathonsand all those things, but but,

(55:01):
um, and he wasn't even a goodwrestler.
I mean and I think that that'salso important to say it's like
you do not have to.
I mean, obviously there'snothing wrong with wanting to
achieve success and be at thetop of the mountain, but you do
not.
I mean you and I just talkedabout it earlier, right about
our own high school careers youdon't have to be Jordan

(55:23):
Burroughs to draw from thissport, not at all you will
benefit you.
As a matter of fact, the averagewrestlers probably benefit from
the sport more than the betterwrestlers.
Yes, I was too nice, so, um,and I'm sorry, I'm kind of I
kind of went away from yourquestion there.
I mean I it's all good but it'suh, I think I was talking about

(55:46):
you forget the money part.
I want this book to besomething You're talking about
marketing, right.

Speaker 2 (55:54):
Marketing yep.

Speaker 3 (55:55):
The word needs to get out.
This is not about money.
This is about shouting from therooftops how great the sport is
.
We all know it.
But we want to change it to beMMA.
Let's get Ferrari and Staraccito get.
Forget all that.
Forget all that, yeah that'sfor them.

(56:16):
It's never going to be aspopular as football.
Forget all that, I don't care,let it.
I mean, and you brought upwomen, so here's my deal man,
honestly, check this out.
Just be who we are, right.
I used to tell my kids I wascoaching or in recruiting,
helping them out with coaches.
They're like coach.
What do I say to this coach?

(56:37):
What do I do?
Just be yourself, be who youare.
If you want to find a girlfriendor a boyfriend, my advice to
them would be be who you are.
If they don't like you, forthat it's not going to work out
anyway.
Correct.
Just be who you are, and thenyou'll be happy too.
So, like us as wrestlers, let'sbe who we are.

(56:57):
Man, we have the mosttransformative sport in the
world and it has ever been andhas ever will be.
So let's stop trying to changeit to be something else.
We don't have to be the mostpopular.
We're never going to be MMA,we're never going to be NFL, and
that's okay.
That's okay.

(57:18):
Let's be who we are.
And I think the best example ofthat is this when we started
opening the doors to have womenwrestle in their own divisions.
Into doors to have womenwrestle in their own divisions.
Guess what happened?
We were all, I think we.
We were all surprised by a lotof things.
Number one, that so many girlswanted to try it.
But number two, they just fellin love with the sport almost

(57:43):
instantly, yeah, almostinstantly.

Speaker 2 (57:45):
Look at the numbers.
The numbers don't lie.
You know, we didn't have tochange it to do anything, just
let them have an opportunity.

Speaker 3 (57:52):
And and the, the girls fell in love with it.
And what more could you ask for?
That's what we.
That's why we wanted to open itup to you guys, to give you an
opportunity to compete againstother females.
Yes, and try it.
And you tried it and you likedit.
We do these, these girls it'snot the fastest growing sport
because we're forcing them to beat it correct, falling in love

(58:15):
with it.
And and as a parent, as a coach, what more could you want than
your, your kid or your athleteto just love the sport?

Speaker 2 (58:22):
how great is that right?
Right, and it's the.
The simplicity of the sport iswhat really brings out.
I mean, you're talking aboutone-on-one, like we said's.
The simplicity of the sport iswhat really brings out.
I mean, you're talking aboutone-on-one.
Like we said before, thesimplicity of the sport will
bring out who you are.
So if you're someone that'strying to hide it on the outside
, once you get on that mat youshow out exactly who you are.
You know you're either.
You either got it or you don't.

(58:43):
And then if you come back thenext round, you show how much
hard work you're putting into itand you show exactly everybody
that you're made for it.
Because there's no hidinganymore, you have to put that
work.
How about the?

Speaker 3 (58:56):
women's rest.
And this is I think this is thecraziest thing, like where we
come from, right, we, we still.
We see it all the time and it'sstill hard for us to fathom.
But girls will go out there andfight tooth and nail with each
other, yes, and then, as soon asthe whistle blow, they're not
even off the mat, they'rehugging each other darn near,
asking for the phone number.

(59:16):
They're best of friends, that'sright.
That's right.
That's crazy, but it's cool,right right, that's right and
it's.

Speaker 2 (59:22):
It's done that since the at the dawn of time, I think
.
With the sport, if you look atthe international style, same
thing.
You know these guys going overto foreign countries, these guys
have we're bringing those, someof those guys, back here.
You know they're coming hereand they're creating us
relationships.
Our guys are going over thereand creating foreign
relationships and it's honestly,I mean other than soccer.

(59:43):
I can't think of a moreworldwide sport.

Speaker 3 (59:46):
So I was actually going to bring that up.
Right, I'm going to turn thetables on you and ask you a
question.
So I think, like growing thesport, there's so many things
that we, you know we can do togrow the sport.
I talk about the book, like,let's just get the book out
there so people know exactlywhat this sport's all about.
But as far as growing orimproving the sport, however you

(01:00:13):
want to look at it, I mean andand I so I bring that up when
you say soccer and yourexperience in soccer, yeah,
don't, don't.
We need to go back to havingwhat I call friendlies.
Right, let's have some duels,some home and away duels with
that don't matter.

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
Yeah, there's, there's, no, there's nothing
tied to it, it's just going outand having and enjoying the
sport.
Because I remember as a kidtied to it, it's just going out
and having and enjoying thesport.
Because I remember as a kid.
Now we can talk about the highschool level here because if I
ask a varsity player to jumpdown and play to jv, oh no, no,
no, I wouldn't, no way, I can'tplay jv.
My, these chicks are not goingto be impressed with me if I go

(01:00:42):
down to jv.
I had to explain to kids thisrecently.
I said look, this is a teamsport.
We're here to get better.
You coming down, I'll tell youthis much, you probably sit half
the game anyways on varsity.
Why don't you come down to JVwith?
Some of these guys are going tobe coming up to varsity with
you next year.
Get better and we'll play afriendly little scrimmage.
We'll all play together.
Like you said, we'll get Kakanadown the road and we do it.

(01:01:05):
I think we do it every year.
We scrimmage with those guysjust to just to play.
When I was a kid, I didn't carewhere I played, I just wanted to
play.
I just wanted to play and Ithink, like you said, with your
book and people just readinginto a couple chapters, if
you're not like, hey, I want toturn on flow wrestling or go
check out this flow wrestlingstuff or I want to go check out
rock fin or something like thatif you're not, if you're reading

(01:01:26):
this and not being at leastinspired to go check it out, I
that there's something emptyinside your head because these
stories, like I said, there'sperseverance, there's loss,
there's wins, there'schampionships, there's all kinds
of stuff that happen that youcan't experience unless you.
You either see it, read it orgo through it, and that's what I

(01:01:46):
think is the magnificent thingabout it.
That helps grow the sport isbecause you're getting an angle
of athletics in life that youcan't get anywhere else.
You can't.
You can't duplicate wrestling,you can't duplicate what you get
out of it, because it's justthat unique and the fact that
the girls gravitated towards it.
I'm talking about girls sportsin general.

(01:02:06):
I love watching girls soccer.
They are, they are tough andit's not the oh, you bumped my
shoelace and now I'm rolling onthe ground.
Stuff it is.
They're playing hard andthey're playing physical and
they're playing to win.
I don't care what anybody'sopinion is about the olympic
women's olympic soccer team.
First of all ask me how manychampionships they've won, then
ask me how many championshipsthe men have won.

(01:02:27):
That's the kind of the grit andthings like that that women's
sports has brought all the waythrough and a lot of sports.
Now I don't think that your booknecessarily is is like you said
.
You didn't just have like onewhole big chapter on women's.
You spread it out.
You put a.
You know one story was hereonce because it correlated, you
know, correlated or somethingwith the, with the message that

(01:02:49):
was being put through.
But then you did dedicate onespecific area to it, I think
with marketing, like we werekind of touching on with the
marketing portion.
Once someone sees in, like Iguess, the adversity that one
girl goes through versus whatone guy goes through, they could
be like whoa man, I want tojump on board with this girl's

(01:03:11):
version because this is going tobe, this could be even better
than the, the, the normalversion.
So the talk about a volume twois that something?
You know, is that somethingthat not just a girl's, the
girl's side of it?
But would you also want to beputting together something
that's like a, but would youalso want to be putting together
something that's like maybe afreestyle kind of side of it, or

(01:03:31):
like a Greco-Roman stories, oryou know things like that, where
you're kind of breaking it up alittle bit?
Just an idea that literallyjust popped into my head.

Speaker 3 (01:03:38):
I was actually thinking the other day of how
much I didn't have as much Grecoas I wish I had in there.
Yeah, I mean which, by the way,I do want to say this I think
we need to stop undercuttingeach other in this sport.

Speaker 2 (01:03:56):
Agreed.

Speaker 3 (01:03:57):
We need to get on the same page and stop talking
about style and why that'shurting us.
I mean, I think it's ignorantto say, and there are a lot of
prominent people who woulddisagree with me.
I think it's ignorant to say,oh, are a lot of prominent
people who would disagree withme.
I think it's ignorant to say,oh, we got to have the girls
wrestle freestyle in college orthey will never have a shot on
the Olympic level.
Like that's a joke.
Up until the Olympics this year, the men were outperforming the

(01:04:20):
women.
Now we have folk style in highschool, I mean in college.
Excuse me what I don't like.
I'll just say this I see a lotof people, based off of their
own agenda, have their opinions.
My opinion is based off theagenda for girls.

(01:04:41):
I talked to a lot of girls andthese women once again prominent
names will tell you that oh no,I never, never hear people.
The girls want folk style.
I talked to a lot of girls thatwant to like why can't I
wrestle folk style in college?
I mean I have to, I have toswitch over to this other style
predominantly, you know, andthere are some folk style

(01:05:01):
opportunities in college.
But I guess my, my feeling is,I mean, yes, we all want to do
well in the olympics, but so arewe going to sacrifice everybody
but those six women?
I mean, come on man.
Yeah, I guess we can all livetogether.
Right, and greco too.
We, we can all live togetherand improve the sport, but we

(01:05:24):
have to stop worrying strictlyabout ourselves yeah we can't
start clubs just so we can makemoney or we can pump our name
out there.
Someone told me obviously youcan tell I'm passionate about
these things.

Speaker 2 (01:05:38):
Yeah, it's all right, it's good.

Speaker 3 (01:05:39):
So someone told me one time and I thought it was
pretty funny.
Now I don't think that this isa hard and fast 100% rule right,
which not much is in this worldother than what they say death
and taxes.

Speaker 2 (01:05:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:05:52):
They said if you want to know about a club, just tell
them.
Just look at their name.
If it's a person's name, it'sabout the person.
If it's something else, it'sabout the kids.

Speaker 1 (01:06:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:06:03):
Like I said, I don't.
I don't think that that's 100%,because I see people's names on
it that really do care aboutthe kids For sure.
But I mean, it's kind of astarting point and you can look
at that and go, okay, well, thisguy's got like his whole you
know his whole name there, even.

Speaker 2 (01:06:23):
Right on it.
Yeah, mike Krause is a primeexample of not putting your name
on it and being about the kids.
I mean, I think everybody kindof knew that, but just
personified that he loved thesport and that he loved making
kids better.
And actually not even makingkids better, making kids enjoy
wrestling not if they got better.
They should, you know, becausethey're enjoying it and that's

(01:06:44):
usually how it goes right.
You don't think about the oh,it sucks so much, or you just
think about how much fun you'rehaving and you're getting better
at it.
And I think I think you, Ithink you make a good point.
I, I think it's pretty valid tosay that you know you're pinning
your name on something you'reyou're not.
I mean, it's a marketing ploy,you know.
I mean, if you're a big enoughname, you put your name on
something, it's gonna sellsomething.

(01:07:05):
Now, to a certain extent, Icould argue that a little bit in
our state with Askren a littlebit, because not everybody
that's coaching at Askren hastheir name as Askren.
But in the same point of youknow, there are quite a few
clubs across the country whereyou can tell it's really just
about them.
It's about them because thenwhat happens once they're gone.

(01:07:26):
They may be kids thatgravitated towards them and
thought they were great, but Ican totally agree with that.
I was going to tell you, askren?

Speaker 3 (01:07:38):
he was one of the first guys I invited to talk
about this book with.
I saw him at it was Folk StyleNationals.
I think it was 2022.
It was the year that they hadthe Bill Farrell there too.
Okay yep, remember that.
Yep Cedar Rapids.
They had the Farrell, so I had aguy at the Bill Farrell and so
I mean I love wrestling, so I'mwatching the high school stuff

(01:07:59):
too and I just observe guys,right, yep, and I knew who he
was.
But I mean, right, yep, and Iand I knew who he was.
But I mean I'm observing guysand I'm watching him interact
with other.
So he tells me, I mean longstory short just to give you the
end game.
But he tells me, hey, I'm, youknow, I'm busy, but he was super
nice about it, oh sure,professional about it, and I've

(01:08:22):
respected him for just beinghonest and upfront with me.
Um, he's like, I just don'thave time right now, but, uh,
but I, the reason I did isbecause I watched how he was
with the kids, like not just the, the technical instruction, but
just as, as you were sayingearlier, right, you have an
influence, whether you want toor not, these kids are watching

(01:08:45):
you, right.
And so I observed him and andyou know he didn't know me, he
didn't know I was observing himand others, right, but so that's
another thing I do with thebook, right, like I, I can be
fooled, people can be fooled,but I try not to just put
somebody in there that's notworthy of their own salt, worth

(01:09:07):
their weight in salt.
I mean, metals are all greatand grand, but you know you can
have and I mean I don't want tobe calling out people, but you
can have some top names thatreally don't care.
But then again, but I will callout somebody on a positive side
and that's Jordan Burroughs.
Jordan Burroughs every dealingthat I've ever had with this guy

(01:09:32):
he's been been a just a goodhuman being.
Now I know people give him griefover the whole thing at penn
state.
I think that there's probablywrong on both sides, but but he
doesn't.
For me he doesn't get a passbecause he's an olympic champion
, he's a great wrestler.
I think that's.
I think that's a foolish takeif you say, oh, it's okay to

(01:09:56):
screw up because you were agreat athlete.
No, but he gets a pass from mebecause I've seen him do so much
for the sport and so much forother people, even when he
didn't have to.
I've seen the type of personthat he is and that's why he
would get a pass, not becauseyou have a gold medal.
That really, in my mind, doesnot make you any better than

(01:10:20):
anyone else as far as a persongoes.

Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
Now wrestling.

Speaker 3 (01:10:23):
Yeah, you crushed me in wrestling, but you know
you're a good person becauseyou're a good person, correct?

Speaker 2 (01:10:29):
Correct.
So a little bit of themarketing.
What drove like what were yourideas?
Because you did some giveaways,right?
Is that?
Because you did some giveawaysright?
I was a.
You're literally the firstperson I've ever won a giveaway
with on anything, ever in my 45years on this planet, and I get
this.
I get this pattern.
I'm like what?
I message you.
I'm like, hey, dude, like whatI know?

(01:10:51):
You message me.
You're like, hey, you won.
I'm like I won what man?
You're like well, you, you won.
Uh, you won a shirt, stuff likethat.
I was like, dude, all I wasdoing is just trying to share.
I was just trying to help out,put it out there.
And you're like, no, you won.

Speaker 3 (01:11:02):
I was like oh, all right, so that's my thing.
Man, I, I, I people wereinjured by buying.
If they bought the book andshowed me proof that they bought
the book, I was like, okay,well, you're entered, entered.

(01:11:25):
If you did a review, if you dida post, I had a flyer that I so
you know I had a lot of thingsbackfire, but I did a flyer for
this.

Speaker 2 (01:11:30):
It's frustrating, I know, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:11:32):
I get on USA.
There's not really a lot ofpeople right.
That's like, hey, here's a listof all the coaches, you can
just send this out to everycoach.
I didn't really have supportlike that and um.
But you know, you can get onusa wrestling and membership and
I you can find every club.
So, one, one by one, I sent outa message to every single club.

(01:11:57):
It, it took me, it takes abouta total of three days, wow,
constantly, because there's like7,000.

Speaker 1 (01:12:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:12:06):
And so I sent out a message saying this is my book.
This is what I'm doing for thebook.
I'm having this contest.
You know I'm working on theflyer.
Guys, please get back to meindividually and we'll work
together and I'll get youentered.
If you post a fly on the flyer,guys, please get back to me
individually and we'll worktogether and I'll get you
entered.
If you post a flyer in the roomor you send it out by email to
your wrestling community, um,then I did it again.

(01:12:29):
I got the flyer.
I attached the flyer.
Another three days, constant,just email, email, email.
I ended up getting about 20responses out of 7,000.
Yeah, 7,000.
Twice Right, this is about 70.

Speaker 2 (01:12:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:12:45):
Um, and so someone tells me hey, a lot of us don't
look at our emails once theseason's over with until we come
back.
And I'm like man, I just spentbasically a week sending emails
constantly, almost for nothing.
Um, yeah, but long story short,what I, what I, so, what I did

(01:13:09):
is, um, I had these prizes.
I did 50 prizes to representthe 50 states that are in the
book.
Yeah, um, and so it was peopleleave a review.
Um, like you did.
You know you posting good stuff.
I mean, it was really easy toget an entry uh it started out

(01:13:31):
quick, like a lot of people didit, and then it really slowed
down like people weren'tentering.
But long story short, so I had50 prizes, and they were from
some of the companies that Ihave here in the book, right,
that are called dedicatedpartners.
But Cliff Keen, who's beenaround wrestling forever and
supported wrestling, rudisResolite Resolite's actually on

(01:13:53):
the cover, so this is supposedto represent like a wrestling
mat, right?
Yep, and so Resolite did thismock-up for me, and then they I
said I want your name on it too,just like it's a wrestling mat,
right?
Yeah, I was actually gonna havethese pictures surrounded
almost like at a duel, like ahigh school duel, where kids oh

(01:14:15):
yeah, like a team on one side,yeah, yeah.
It would have been cool, but theshape of the book right.
It didn't really work that way,that's right.

Speaker 2 (01:14:23):
That's right.

Speaker 3 (01:14:24):
So, long story short, I have all these prizes
Dopaminil, so Footwork Trainer,yeah.
So there were all these coolprizes.
Resolite did some award mats,so those are still in the works.
We're trying to get those outto people, but they were

(01:14:47):
wrestling shoes, there werebackpacks, headgear, uh,
t-shirts.
There's a lot of cool stuff,right?
So we do this drawing the daythat the olympics, the wrestling
in the olympics finished up anduh, you know, you were one of.
I'm like, I mean, I mean it wasjust, it was random.
I did it on Instagram live andit wasn't, you know, it was just
everybody that got an entry ortwo or three.
I just threw it all in a boxand I was.

(01:15:08):
The only thing I was kind ofhoping was maybe we don't have
the same person, like, if theyhave multiple entries, I mean
I'm putting them in there.
So I'm like maybe we can not getone person, but unfortunately
we didn't.
But 27 states were representedwith the winners.

(01:15:28):
And then the cool part aboutthat is I made it.
I knew so all those companies.
What I did is they gave me somediscounts.
I bought all the stuff myself,of course.
Then I had to pay for all theshipping and everything, which
is another thing.
So I had some extra stuff and Isaid, well, I want to do a

(01:15:50):
bonus drawing for the states,the three states with the most
entries per capita.

Speaker 2 (01:15:59):
So it's fair yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:16:00):
Yep, that's right.
So California had the mostentries per capita, so that's
right.
Yeah, yep, that's right, soit's per capita.
So, like california had themost entries, right, but they
also had the most people, yeah,so I just looked up.
What I did was it might nothave been the most um recent
numbers for the states, but Ikept, I kept the source the same
.
So, yeah, I mean I kept thesource the same.
So I mean I kept the source thesame.

(01:16:22):
So I did all the states, theirpopulation, everything, and I
did my little formula.
And then so those three statesand I can't remember I think
Montana was one of them, alaskawas one of them and maybe it was
North Dakota, I can't remember.
But so those three states, thecool thing was nobody in the

(01:16:43):
first 50 prizes won from thosestates.
So when I did the bonus drawing, I put those entries back in
for those states and it happenedto be one from each state,
which was awesome, so nice.

Speaker 2 (01:16:56):
So there was actually 30 states that had prizes sent
out to, that's cool that's cooland so to me, like that's that's
also a part of the growingsport.
Like as much that I don't do,like I don't get paid doing this
, so literally I have, I'mlooking at thousands of dollars
of equipment down here, right,like I spent my money on that,
because I feel like this is likedoing this is my version of

(01:17:18):
giving back to the sport.
That's's not only giving backto me, but giving back to my son
and my family and both my sons.
So that that's I.
I completely empathize with thespending money on something to
make sure that, because you wantto do it right and you want to
represent correctly, just likeeverybody else when they're
going on the mat, they're tryingto represent correctly.
So I think you're growing thesport just fine with what you're

(01:17:40):
doing, because it's you'regiving back.
You're showing that the sportdoes matter and that people in
it matter, and at the same time,though, too, that the stories
matter.
You know everybody's beenthrough something, everybody's
been awarded something, whateverit is, but doing those prizes
and kind of keeping peopleengaged, you might've engaged
probably some new athletes, somenew kids of the sport, and then

(01:18:03):
now you just heightened it evenmore for those guys that they
want to continue.
Hey, man, I got to check out myroot of socks, you know, look
at these.
I just got these men.
You know, like my parents aregoing to keep buying me, so if
we go to the next tournamentthey're going to give me another
pair, so maybe that keeps themgoing and that keeps them
driving through.
So, with with the end goal ofgrowing the sport, how, in your

(01:18:24):
opinion, how, how do you feel?
Like what?
What's some feedback thatyou've gotten on the book?

Speaker 3 (01:18:30):
Uh, it's.
It's all been very positive.
Like people, I've been pleased,so I did get.
A few weeks back, somebody gaveme a four star on Amazon and
it's really not a big deal,right, but it's like dang it.
I had all five star reviews butthey did not leave a review, it
was just a rating.

Speaker 2 (01:18:50):
That's it, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:18:51):
Yeah.
So I was like I didn't know whoit was or even why you would
say only four star.

Speaker 1 (01:18:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:18:57):
I mean there's no reason for me to worry about.
I mean it's not that big of adeal, but um, yeah, it's like.
Hey, I wanted to keep my streakintact, right yeah, that's the
people I talked to and they lovethe book and they're like
really shocked and surprised bywhat it really was yeah uh, like
I told you, there were somepeople that were like what do

(01:19:19):
you mean?
you're writing a book onwrestling.
What is that about?
What would that do?
What is it about?
They read it and they're like,oh my gosh, that's what I mean.
That's really cool and that'sawesome.

Speaker 2 (01:19:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:19:30):
It has been really fun to get the positive feedback
, but we just need to do more ofit right, like people, go on
Amazon, they'll see, hey, it's a4.9 star now instead of five.
But uh, I mean, I don't listen,loser.
Oh, exactly, yeah, but uh, youknow no reason to complain, but

(01:19:54):
the 22 reviews and we get morereviews.
People like that.
Matter of fact, my wife was ata, at a.
Uh, what do you call like aconvention for a work?

Speaker 2 (01:20:04):
yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:20:04):
Peyton Manning spoke and she's standing next to at
this.
They were actually front row.
She's standing next toTennessee fans from it was a
bank.
She works at a bank, okay, andso she tells them about my book.
Yeah, my husband wrote a bookabout the sec.
Not to sell it, just to tell itI'm in conversation, yeah.

(01:20:26):
So first thing they do is theyget on their phone and they look
it up and they're like, oh man,those are good reviews.
So I mean people see a lot ofreviews or they see you know a
good rating.
It draws them to it.
So I mean we could help withthat.
But one thing that I strugglewith and I don't know why this
is so hard for people but man,just email you, send it out to

(01:20:48):
your email list of yourwrestling community, like just
if anybody wants any information.
So I'm at thecoachlang oninstagram, just dm me, I'll send
you pictures of the book.
I'll send you flyers.
I'll send you different.
I'll send you pictures of thebook.
I'll send you flyers.
I'll send you even a QR code ifyou want it, so people can scan
it and go to the book.

(01:21:09):
Once again, it's not about money, just like I say.
I mean I'd be a hypocrite tosay don't start a club only for
money.
And then I'd say I'm writing abook just for money.
What a hypocrite.
But it's not about my, it'sabout growing the sport, and so
if I can do anything for anybodyto get information about this
because, like you said, thereare stories that somebody will

(01:21:32):
relate to in here, I promise you, there's 150 different stories.
People from olympic championsdown to five-year-old kids, boys
, girls, men, women, um, peoplewill relate to these stories and
they'll and and they'll seesomething in wrestling that I I
believe that will prompt mostpeople to at least give it a try

(01:21:54):
.
So that's where when I thinkabout growing a sport, that's
what.
Not everybody's going to stayin it, but there will be some
that do that stay with it.
That's correct.
You know, and then think aboutthis Like what if we have
somebody that joins the sportfor two years and they get out
of it, whether it be their lasttwo years in high school or they

(01:22:14):
go to another sport or whateverit is?
But when they're older, right,I mean, I've really only
wrestled four years and look atthe things that I'm doing for
wrestling and I probably do lessthan a lot of people in rest,
but somebody joined wrestlingand they see, oh my, that was 20
years ago, but my son's at ahigh school and they have a
wrestling team.
Hey, johnny, you should trythis.

(01:22:36):
It's man, it's hard, but I mean, I, I loved it, you know.
And of course, their history isprobably going to be altered
and they'll be like I was thecounty champion, right, right.
But I mean, people will go backto it.
And you mentioned the women.
How cool is it going to be whenwe get to a point where now we
have more women coaches?

(01:22:57):
Obviously, we're having morewomen wrestlers, but what about
more women officials, which isgrowing now?
But, what about when we starthaving more women CEOs, more
women business owners and peoplethat can give back to the sport
that way, because they weregiven an opportunity to
participate?
Yep, how cool is that going tobe right?

(01:23:20):
Yeah, it's all going to pay.

Speaker 2 (01:23:20):
How cool is that going to be?
Right?
Yeah, it's all.
It's all going to pay off, it'sgoing to pay dividends and I
think, uh, honestly, with, withthe way that the sport is going,
I think anything and everylittle thing that in a positive
nature that can help the sportis all it's all worthwhile.
Um, I think we do.
I think we do.
I think you brought up a goodpoint.
We do get lost in the you know,oh, I got to make money in

(01:23:40):
doing this.
I mean, don't get me wrong,would a guy like to break even,
like you said?
Hell yeah, why wouldn't youwant to?
But when you are dedicated tosomething like this and it's
something that it's a passion,the money doesn't matter.
Again, this is the side that Ilike doing.
I like bringing these storiesout to people, whether it's a
wrestler story I mean, nickSiriano hadn't talked to anybody

(01:24:03):
in how long and I was luckyenough to get him on to be able
to tell his entire story aboutgoing all the way from little
kid to the Penn State issue, allthat stuff I didn't know half
of that stuff.
And I think that having thesestories out here like this as
well, and the even the storiesthat are nameless.
Like you said, you, theperson's still active.
You don't want to, you don'twant to, um, put that in

(01:24:24):
jeopardy.
It's still a story worthwhile,regardless when it comes to this
sport.
So I commend you for what you'redoing, and I know that things
that we do in the future willdefinitely involve still putting
that book out there.
Talking to kids.
Be like, hey, go grab this book.
You don't even have to have thehard copy, have it on your,
your Kindle or on your tablet.
You can read it right there,and so you can have it right

(01:24:46):
there.
So, with with that being said,I know we are going to be
putting out a website prettysoon.
Um, we'd like to obviouslyincorporate that book onto there
so people that are going canget more exposure to it.
Um, because we you know I havevision quest apparel company and
stuff like that, but we'regoing to be putting some new
stuff out there.
So I'm definitely going tostill be helping you put that

(01:25:07):
out there, because I think thisbook is extremely important.
So here's the thing we've beengoing hey, yeah, go ahead go for
it on the money part of it.

Speaker 3 (01:25:17):
One thing I'll say is profit's not a dirty word.
I'm not against people makingmoney.
Making profit, I mean if I didmore than break even, I'd be
happy about that too.
But so I mean I don't want tomake it sound like I don't want
to make money, don't want tosell books.
I guess my thing is it's themotivation behind it, right?

(01:25:39):
Like my motivation to writethis book was not to get rich
quick scheme or nothing likethat.
It was all about growing thesport and you know, I assumed
that I would probably make mymoney back on it.
I mean, that may or may nothappen and that's
inconsequential.
So I'm not trying to throwpeople under the bus for making
money.
There's nothing wrong with that.

(01:26:00):
It's reallyonsequential.
So I'm not trying to throwpeople under the bus for making
money, there's nothing wrongwith that.
It's really about themotivation.
Like especially when you knowyou, you take money from someone
to teach their kid and you do aphenomenal job of that and your
mentor them.
Good for you, man.
You deserve what you, what youdid, right?
I mean, like I'm already at thepoint where I've put all this
money and stuff into it.
So it's not like it is what itis.

(01:26:21):
But once again I'm sorry I'vegot to stop talking about the
money, because it doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 (01:26:28):
It doesn't.
It doesn't.

Speaker 3 (01:26:29):
But I was going to say you're talking about these
stories.
Lily left at Iowa.
Man, her story is the longestone in the book.
It's probably three storiesworth of stories.
I mean it's as long as three ofthem.
But once you read it it reallyis three stories and it's, it's
uh, man.
I encourage people to go lookat her story.

(01:26:50):
It's uh, it's phenomenal andman, they're, they're just
they're.
There's some terrificpeopleific people.
So you know I follow her on herstuff and I like a lot of her
stuff because she's a goodperson.
I mean just awesome.
And you know she wasn't evengoing to wrestle, she had

(01:27:13):
already hung it up for wrestlingand we laughed about that,
right?
She told me.
I will say this, so I'm kind ofgiving a little bit away, but
I'll tell you.
So her brother passed right buthe had three goals it was to
win state, it was to uh wrestleat Iowa and uh three, to to be

(01:27:38):
in Olympics.
So the day that I do theinterview with her and her mom,
we're talking about that.
Well, when she started back inwrestling, iowa didn't have a
women's team.
Nope, right, yep.
When she started back inwrestling, the girls' state

(01:27:58):
championship wasn't sanctioned,it wasn't recognized and it just
happened to be that it becomesrecognized.
She wins the state championship, iowa starts a women's
wrestling team, she's wrestlingat Iowa.
And the day that I did theinterview with her and her mom,
they were on their way back fromthe Olympic Training Center.

Speaker 2 (01:28:20):
And I was just I mean , it was, it was something else
yeah, and so now I kind of knewher story a little bit just from
social media and following herand things like that.
She's the.
I think that's one thing that Ifind fascinating about the
wrestling community is theability to wear your, your heart
on your sleeve and not notwhere, and some people aren't

(01:28:41):
able to, but a lot of these guys, especially these high level
people, are able to do that andnot even worry about it, and I
think that's another tale forpeople to take away from a lot
of these athletes and some ofthese stories that they're
putting it all out there.
You know they're, they'reliterally putting themselves and
their life story out there forpeople to learn not to listen to

(01:29:03):
it and be like, oh, that was areally good story.
It's to learn from and to takepieces of the information that
they're giving you and be like,hey, things are going to be
rough.
Things do happen for a reasonand you can persevere through
them, and Lily Luft is prettymuch the epitome of what that is
, you know.
So we've been following her fora long time too, and it was

(01:29:24):
nice to see her in the book.
I wasn't expecting it either.
Until I started reading, I'mlike is this Lily?

Speaker 3 (01:29:31):
Awesome.
Well, I didn't even.
I don't know.
I guess I don't know if youcall this humbleness or just
dumb ass surgery.
Right, I mean I was justthinking like I'm not gonna.
I mean obviously it doesn'tmake sense.
I approached john smith whywould I approach her?
But I'm just gonna let it golike I'm like it kind of felt

(01:29:51):
like, hey, people knew it, butthey really didn't know it.
I they went in depth with meand gave me some information and
it was because someone in theIowa wrestling community said,
hey, we talked with her and Isaid, well, no, no, they said,
well, you should.
And so.
I did, and the depth that theygave me the story.

(01:30:14):
I mean, we started bondingwhich, by the way, like, so you
know, they donated her brother'sorgans when he passed.
Well, I'm originally fromLouisville, Kentucky, Guess,
where the donor recipient of hisheart was from.

Speaker 2 (01:30:27):
Louisville.

Speaker 3 (01:30:27):
Kentucky.
Yeah, my brother passed away.
Myself, my youngest brotherpassed away in a car accident
and we donated his organs.
So there was some natural um,there was some natural bonding
there already yeah, and it wasuh, you know, and I I might be
getting teary-eyed now and thinkabout my brother, think about

(01:30:50):
their situation, but but webonded a little bit through that
and they're just wonderfulpeople that are.
I mean it's, it's the epit likewe talk about, like what a good
person is is do the best youcan do without being
self-centered.
And that that's the left family.
There they are.
They, they are going to do thebest that they can do and then,

(01:31:15):
at the same time, help othersand it's just they're.

Speaker 2 (01:31:18):
They're great man, they're awesome same time, help
others and it's just they're.
They're great man, they'reawesome, they are they
definitely are and a great storyand I encourage every single
person that has listened to thisshow has seen the show go out
and get the book matt returnagain.
You can get it physically inyour hands, you can do it
digitally, it doesn't matterwhere you get it.
Get out and get it.
Um, we're at about an hour anda half.

(01:31:41):
I want to give you theopportunity to kind of do some
shout outs at the end here,because I you know you've been
working with people.
If there's someone that youhaven't mentioned, you want to
bring up who you got for shoutouts oh man.

Speaker 3 (01:31:54):
So I mean there's.
There's so many people, right,I don't want to leave people
that just know I.
I mean people know that there'ssome great coaches that you may
not have heard of at thecollege level.
Right, there's also greatcoaches at the club level that
you may have heard too.
But there's a lot of goodpeople in this sport and you

(01:32:16):
know there's a lot of peoplethat care about growing the
sport, care about helping peopleindividually.
It's just like with anythingelse.
You know, do your homework, vetpeople Just because you don't
know their name.
I mean, I talked to one of ourwinners of our match.
He was telling me the other dayI got in touch with him he won

(01:32:37):
one of the award match fromResolite and all of a sudden we
start talking about Fox catcherand Dave Schultz.
Yeah, because he was there.
He was there.
And and I was like man, just hewas, he was telling me about
this.
He said just real quick, Ithink you'll enjoy the story he
tells me he rose up the firstday to go practice.

(01:32:57):
There he's with Mark Schultz.

Speaker 2 (01:33:00):
Oh boy.

Speaker 3 (01:33:01):
He rolls up to the gate.
Yeah, he rolls up to the gateand he punches the code in, mark
does, and the gate's startingto open and this guy's like, hey
, mark, there's a tank, there'sa tank.
Mark's like, yeah, he's likethat's DuPont.
He's like, no, no, there's atank.
So dupont rolls up on him witha tank and opens the hatch and

(01:33:25):
comes out and he's he's like hewants this guy's wrestling
resume right now, before youcome on the property.
And that was like his firstexperience with on, I mean
interest, I mean obviously it'sa tragedy, what happened?
Right, but interesting story,interesting story so mark
schultz has been on the show.

Speaker 2 (01:33:44):
That guy has definitely got some interesting
stories and man, he could.
I, I could have done afour-hour episode with that guy.
I tell you what.
But yeah, definitely.
I mean, and that's the thing islike the there are, so there's
so much more.
I'm expecting you to do avolume two.
I'm expecting it.
I'm gonna hold you and I'm.
If I, by next year I don't hearsomething about a volume two,

(01:34:07):
I'm gonna start bugging youabout a volume two so let's make
a deal, like everybody,seriously, I mean, I'm pretty
sure you're gonna like the book,but get it.

Speaker 3 (01:34:19):
Like, like you said, you can get the electronic
version, you can get thepaperback.
This is the first book thatI've ever done a hardcover for
and I'm so pleased with it.
It's really cool, the hardcover, yeah.
And so what I just want to sayis, if you want to grow the

(01:34:39):
sport and not just because it'smy book, but if you want to grow
the sport, just let people knowabout it.
I'm not saying that you have togo buy everybody a book or talk
them into it.
Just tell them about it and ifyou read it, then you'll really
know what it's about and you'llbe like oh okay, this is what
they were talking about.
Right, like I say a lot aboutbeing real and true, because

(01:35:01):
that's who I am At the end ofthe day.
I'm real and true about thisbook and you know.
So I'm not just saying thatthis stuff's in there.
I mean it talks about in thebeginning, like you said, it
talked about some rules,regulations, but it's elementary
, it's for those people that arelearning the sport.
At the back of the book there'sa resource guide right that has

(01:35:24):
every stage you can look at.
I mean you can find a lot ofgood stuff.
So after every fourth chapterthere is I guess you'd call it a
poem that I've written.
The one for the girls is prettycool At the very end.
My favorite is called theEssence of Wrestling.
That's something that we'vetalked about maybe putting music
to and it being the one shiningmoment for the NCAA tournament.

Speaker 2 (01:35:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:35:48):
Help grow the sport that way.
But, if you would just send thisout to your wrestling community
through email.
Just let them know it's there.
And if anybody needs any ofthat information, you let me
know.
I mean, the book is availableon Amazon, but I can shoot any

(01:36:09):
of that information.
The other thing that I like tosay is we work with some clubs
and some individuals forfundraising efforts.
I can do some drop shipping andsome individuals for
fundraising efforts.
I can do some drop shipping,like, for instance I'll just
tell you even the numbersbecause I won't hide it, right
but there was a girl, sheactually won Fargo, but it was

(01:36:31):
so cool to work with her, whatshe did, so I drop shipped some
books to her and I paid it.
It cost me about $8 to pay forthe book and the shipping.
She gave me $10.
So I got a couple of dollarsfor each book.

Speaker 1 (01:36:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:36:48):
She sold it for 20 and she was able to have 10 go
into her Fargo fund, Nice.
So she's getting the word out.
So she was in the book too,which so she was telling people,
hey, I'm in this book.

Speaker 2 (01:36:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:37:01):
Oh yeah, but you know just, I want to help teams and
wrestlers too, right, Yep?
So if there's anything likethat I mean, I've sent books off
to people that are doing likegolf outings for their clubs and
things Sure, Just reach out tome.
If I can help you, we'll worksomething out.

Speaker 2 (01:37:18):
Yep, and when, out to me.
If I can help you, uh, we'llwork something out.
Yep, and well, when we get thisout, uh, after either tomorrow,
I guess, soccer tournamenttomorrow.
But I will have information inthe youtube um description
that'll have a link to the book,uh, and any other information
that you want to send me thatyou want in there.
I could put all that right inthe description of that and then
it'll also be included into thepodcast description as well.

(01:37:40):
So so when it's out on Spotify,all that stuff will be out
there.
So, folks, seriously, get out,just if, if anything, just get
the snippet of the book that youcan get when you're looking at
it on Amazon and it gives you ataste of what's in there, so
that way you can reallyunderstand that it's not again,
it's not a succession book.
These are stories.
These are all individualstories of people who have gone

(01:38:00):
through adversity winning,losing.
It's all the story of wrestlingand really I think it
encompasses wrestling as a whole.

Speaker 3 (01:38:09):
And it's not technique.
I'll leave that to the experts.
I think I'm more of an experton people and their stories.
I'll leave the technique, so youknow you mentioned the short
stories.
I actually envision kids havingthis book at a tournament and
in between matches, because thestories are a page, page and a

(01:38:31):
half at longest.
Except for Lily's First it'sabout two and a half pages.
But I mean you could read this,you could read a story in
between matches and it won'tdisrupt your time at all.
I mean what you got?
An hour or more.

Speaker 2 (01:38:46):
you can read a story in 10 minutes it may not disrupt
your time, but it could alsoaffect him, maybe even better,
the outcome of your next match.
You never know, yep, exactly,exactly so, coach lang.
Man, it has been a pleasuretalking to you.
I tell you that much.
Um, I'm going to talk to youstill for a minute once we're
done here.
But, um, uh, folks, stay tuned,uh, go get the book.

(01:39:07):
Stay tuned for our website.
Uh, thanks to our sponsors.
Uh, appleton tattoo, anabolicarmy.
Uh.
And then we got nine to oh hats, uh hat company.
But uh, go out and get the uhmatt return uh honestly, you're
not going to be disappointed.

Speaker 3 (01:39:23):
Before I go, I do want to say this I really
appreciate you having me andI've I've invited some people to
come watch us tonight, right,and yeah it's really because I
want them to see you and thethings that you're doing.
I appreciate that what you doto grow the sport.
So, so, so, your sponsors andthe people that follow you,
thank you for what you guys do.
Follow them because that I meanyou do a great job helping

(01:39:46):
sports, so thank you Iappreciate.

Speaker 2 (01:39:48):
I appreciate it everybody.
This has been another episodeof the vision quest podcast.
Go check out the matt return.
We're going to be talking afterwe're done here.
Everybody else peace.

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