#98 Mike Dixon's Story: From Athletic Beginnings to Coaching Success

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How does a lackluster baseball player turn into a dedicated wrestling coach? Join us for an enlightening conversation with Mike Dixon, the Associate Head Coach of the University of Indiana, as he shares his journey from the Indiana fields of soccer and baseball to the wrestling mats that defined his career. Mike starts by recounting his early experiences in sports, from the thrill of riding his bike to practice to the critical life lessons taught by his father, especially the importance of commitment and resilience. 

Transitioning into his high school years, Mike reflects on the evolution of wrestling and the increasing importance of mental toughness in today's athletes. We delve into the pressures of social media, and how they contrast with the more straightforward challenges faced by past generations. Mike offers personal anecdotes from his Indiana upbringing, including the pivotal moment he realized the significance of wrestling legends like Dan Gable, shaping his coaching philosophy and approach to nurturing young talent.

The episode concludes with a deep dive into Mike's impactful work with Beat the Street Chicago and the critical role of hardworking coaches. Listen as Mike narrates his unexpected journey into college wrestling, the decision-making process that led him to Indiana University, and his transition from athlete to coach. From battling injuries and coaching high school teams to leading a youth organization during a pandemic, Mike's story is a powerful testament to passion, leadership, and dedication. Don't miss this heartfelt tribute to the unseen efforts of coaches who shape the future of young athletes.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (01:38):
Thank you, thank you live.

Speaker 2 (02:03):
There we are.
We are joined here on anotherepisode of the vision quest
podcast.
Uh, just a late night, one kindof traffic got stuck, kind of
got talking a little bit and umwant to want to kind of uh, kind
of get a feel for who you were.
But we're able to finally getin-house.
Uh, assistant, um, is itassociate head coach?

(02:24):
What's the title?
Technically it's associate headcoach.
Associate head coach.
Okay, so, associate head coachof the University of Indiana,
mike Dixon.
Thanks for having me.
I appreciate you being here,man, especially at this time.
It's crazy.
So thank you very much.
In-house, I don't get to getguys in that often, except for
the local guys.
So this is, I'm excited forthis one right here.

(02:46):
So, yeah, mike dixon, coach isat the university of indiana.
Um, I, I know that right now isprobably a busy time of season
for you, right, gonna extremelygetting around, getting around,
um, so we want to make this uh,you know it is is informative as
possible, but uh, I don't wantto keep you up all night.
So, with that being said, Iwant to make this uh, you know
it is is informative as possible, but uh, I don't want to keep
you up all night.

(03:06):
So, with that being said, Iwant to start from the beginning
.
Where, where, where are you?
Where are you from originally?

Speaker 3 (03:15):
I'm from, uh, indiana .
I grew up in indiana.
You did okay.
I was born in a suburb outsideof chicago okay, okay, okay, all
right, where like?

Speaker 2 (03:26):
so what we talked about here typically is where
it's sport started, for hedoesn't have to necessarily be
wrestling right sport.
So what was the first sport youremember?
Oh?

Speaker 3 (03:36):
gosh.
Uh, I think everybody getsthrown in soccer right right
probably soccer uh okay, Iwasn't.
I don't think I was very goodat sports when I was little.
No soccer, uh well, soccer, youjust run around, you know so
okay, we'll talk about thatlater I bet when you're five yes

(04:04):
, correct the bumblebee effect.

Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yeah around honey, that's right.

Speaker 3 (04:08):
Yes, okay, uh, I'd probably say, baseball is
actually my favorite sport wasthat like a love?

Speaker 2 (04:15):
when you first, when you started playing, was it like
oh man, I love this so I wasn'tgood at baseball.

Speaker 3 (04:21):
But yeah, growing up um in in chicago back in the day
the cubs were always on wgn yep.
So correct school lets out,there's always a cups game on
always.
So that's kind of what I didand he played outside.
So that that's kind of why Iguess you could say I fell in
love with baseball is because tome it was just always on nice

(04:44):
okay.

Speaker 2 (04:45):
So with it, with being in Indiana, obviously we
know it's kind of a basketballstate, but either way, with with
baseball, you had obviouslysomeone was there to help you
get you to practice.
What was what was the?
What was the dynamic like with,with the parents, where was it?
Because I, I know you mentionedobviously that your, your dad,
knew of sports, he, he knew thebaseball, things like that.

(05:05):
But what was?
Was he the?
Was he the ride?
Was he the like the?
Hey, I'm going to come andwatch you and I want to, I want
to learn as much as possible.
Or were they just kind of offin the back?
And this is your thing we trust.
We trust what you're doing with, who you're doing that with.

Speaker 3 (05:20):
No, they were more of just the trust and make sure
you're at um where you'resupposed to be okay um, and I
had a little little league rightdown the street so I was close
enough where a lot of times Icould just ride my bike to
practice.
Oh, that's tough, so okay, nice.
A lot of times it was on me toget to practice.
The the only real memory I haveis one time in practice.

(05:45):
Uh, like I said, I wasn't verygood at baseball, I just liked
it.
A fly ball hits me in the noseand you're little.
I start crying.
I remember going home and thenmy dad comes home and kind of
looks at me strange becausewhatever time he came home, I

(06:07):
wasn't supposed to be at home.
I was supposed to be atpractice and you know I was like
.
You know I got hit in the noseand blah, blah, blah, and he
looks at me, grabs me, puts meback in the car go back to
practice.

Speaker 2 (06:21):
Oh man, all right, practice.
Oh man, all right, that's alesson supposed to be a practice
.
Yeah, okay, so did that?
Was?
I mean, did that leave animpression?
And I on you?
Then, as far as, like you know,further on down the road, like
hey, like this is, this isimportant, I should be here, no
matter what yeah, just hey.

Speaker 3 (06:37):
It doesn't matter what happens, you're supposed to
be where you're supposed to be.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
So yeah, a thousand percent sets a, sets a precedent
for you.
So, as you're, you know, kindof, we, we're gonna, we're gonna
kind of go all the way throughand and figure out exactly what
kind of drove you and got you towrestling.
So yeah, baseball, soccer wetalked about that a little bit.
Now, what grade school, whatwas that?
Baseball and soccer?

Speaker 3 (06:59):
you hadn't touched wrestling yet in grade school no
, um, uh, middle school, it'sprobably a challenge for
everybody.
Yeah, um, I my, my mom hadnever really wanted me to play
football, okay, um, so I wentout for seventh grade wasn't

(07:20):
very good, yeah.
Went out again for eighth gradestill wasn't very good.
Yeah.
Went out again for eighth gradeStill wasn't very good, okay,
and I think I had tried that.
This was the last year I triedbaseball.
Yeah, wasn't very good at that.
The rule of thumb in my housewas you have to be involved with

(07:40):
something.
Okay, we don't care what you're, you're gonna do something in
addition to school.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
Yeah, so yeah, my whole times have changed yeah,
it's not a lot of that aroundyou know there's not a lot of
you need to be doing something.
That was with liam.
I mean, I think we had the samethought.
I mean I was in sports but wedidn't know he was gonna be
wrestling until when we foundout that he'd like to punch kids
in preschool and my wifesuggested karate and I was like

(08:08):
he doesn't have patience forthat, he can't sit still that
long.
And we found wrestling.
So what?
How was it that?
Was it just a?
Your dad found a flyer we hearthat story a lot and said hey,
or had a buddy no it um.

Speaker 3 (08:22):
So I had a paper out because I sucked at sports in
middle school.
Okay, ended up having paper outand paper out in a lawn mowing
business, um, and then, uh,freshman year, still trying
football, yeah, and I think Ithink at this point I was trying
to be like a running back orsomething and they were like,

(08:42):
yeah, this, this isn't working.
So they just stuck me on online and yeah, like okay,
whatever but when you get tohigh school, you know, they
start to try and develop you to.
You know there's freshmen, therewas jv and varsity and um, so
after my freshman year I think Ijust tried to lift and stuff.

(09:05):
And then sophomore year, Istart to get a little bit more
playing time because I hadlifted on the JV.
So then after that I'm like,okay, well, this lifting thing
it seems to be helping me.
I'm playing, I'll just in theoffseason.
That's what football players doin the offseason.

(09:28):
That's tell me what footballplayers do.
Um, then I actually had afootball coach.
Uh, coach carrico was his name,okay, says he had kind of a
deep, raspy voice.
He was like, if you want to begood at football, you need to go
wrestle.
Okay, that's kind of how Iended up in the wrestling room.
Wow, and I mean, just like anykid, yeah, you're just getting

(09:50):
whipped, you know, yeah, um, butI could see I was getting
better.
Okay, in, in, in, uh, practice,um, and through competitions,
you know, results started tohappen.
Yeah, I mean, um, my, my, um.
The first memory I have of mebeing on varsity, this is during

(10:13):
sophomore year the guy that wasabove the weight class,
somebody gotten hurt, okay, sothey moved me up.
They said here, here you go.
Yeah, we need you to step in,yeah, and a uh, a guy was eating
a subway sandwich.
This I remember vividly, eatinga subway sandwich.
I go out there, I get pinned inlike 10 seconds, sits back down

(10:35):
, unwraps the subway sandwichand eats it and I was like man,
this is embarrassing.
So embarrassing.
Yeah, so um, but after, afterthe regular season's over, the
coach came in and like, okay,you know, you know varsity's
trained for postseason and thefreshman JV is like, okay, you
know yeah you guys, thanks forthe season and we'll see you.

(10:59):
Yeah, by this time I don't knowwhat it was probably with every
other wrestler you kind of gethooked and you're like, I
actually kind of like this.
So you're, uh, I asked thecoach.
I said can I stay?

Speaker 1 (11:14):
like, do I have to?

Speaker 3 (11:15):
go, yeah, yeah, and he kind of was like I don't
think anybody ever asked thatbefore.
You know, he's like sure, ifyou want, yeah.
So, um, I just continued topractice, continue to get better
, and you know, uh, I was veryfortunate, um, and what helped
me a lot is there were two guysthe class above me.

(11:36):
They were both at the time.
They were, I think, one and twoin the state.
They were both highly ranked inthe state of indiana.
They both end up wrestling yeahuh, division one okay, and those
ended up being a lot of times,uh, my workout partners and
stuff, so that that that helpsaccelerate my progress in
wrestling because I had two very, very good guys that yeah, I

(11:58):
mean I got whooped every day butyou know I I could see in
competition.

Speaker 2 (12:01):
Well, this is actually getting me better once
you got off.
Yeah, once you get out of thepractice room.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay, can't do anything in thepractice.
Could see in competition.
Well, this is actually gettingme better Once you got off.

Speaker 3 (12:05):
Yeah, once you get out of the practice room.
Yeah, yeah, okay, can't doanything in the practice room.
I think competition actuallybeats me Bring it out?

Speaker 2 (12:10):
Yeah for sure.
Obviously, like I could sit andtalk to you, know, van Bril,
about Super 32s and stuff likethat.
We didn't have that.
No, and I'm not going to askyour age, but I can tell that
we're not far off and I don'tremember Super 32 and stuff like
that.
I remember my brother, who wasseven years older than I was.

(12:31):
Those guys would take a tripdown to Iowa every year.
I don't even remember what thetournament was called.
That could have been like thepreseason nationals before it
was preseason nationals, but itwas freestyle, I believe.
So those guys made one tripdown there every single year.
We're just some lonelywisconsin kids up in oshkosh,
wisconsin, and they would drivedown.
I think my dad drove one yearand then a couple other dads

(12:52):
drive the next year.
So those tournaments I remember.
But when you guys in,especially in indiana, what?
What was the besides state?
Was there a coup de gras typetournament that you guys had
that you went to?

Speaker 3 (13:06):
I mean, fargo was probably the only thing.
That was the one.
Yeah, that was the one.
And I just remember after thatsophomore year they said okay,
now we got to start.
I thought I was going to goback to the weight room and lift
.

Speaker 1 (13:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (13:20):
And they're like no, you got to start doing freestyle
.
And I'm like what, how do youdo what?
I mean probably every kid'sjourney when you're trying to
figure out.
Okay, you know, you spent allthis time teaching me what a
takedown was and how to get offbottom, and now you're telling
me, if I get taken down, don'tget off.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
And I can lock my hands.

Speaker 3 (13:42):
You know, yeah, like don't lock your hands Now you
can lock my hands.
You know, yeah, like don't lockyour hands Now you can lock
your hands.

Speaker 2 (13:51):
Now you're like wait, I'm so confused.
So so that was the big one.
So when you were coming up youyou spoke about obviously at the
practice partners you had whatwas probably the toughest, I
guess the toughest obstacle youhad as a youth wrestler, as a
young wrestler, and then whatwas the toughest obstacle
besides the practice room as yougot into high school?

Speaker 3 (14:10):
oh gosh, uh, I'd say just persevering every day, you
know, I mean learning how to uhin in practice.
You just think more strength,more effort will get you x, y
and z, because you're alwaystaught you know give 110 and you
know do everything you can.

(14:30):
So you're like, okay, I justneed to push more and I'll get
said result.
But you know that's not alwaysthe case.
Um, in in wrestling and kind oflearning how to figure things
out, you know, I mean you're alot of people talk about getting
going in the lab and figuringstuff out and obviously you can
see it with how wrestling is now.
Just I mean the wrestling isunbelievable now.
It's kids kind of getting intothe lab and, you know, figuring

(14:54):
things out and it's not like allthis necessarily like effort
and just I just got to pushharder train harder, you know so
, um, just being able tounderstand and do that at a, at
a young age, and obviously youhave people that are kind of
coaching you, teaching you howto do things right, you kind of
make it your own once, you kindof get a good feel for it I take

(15:15):
man, I can totally understandthat, because the the one thing
that I see, especially now, um,is that the, the mental blocks.

Speaker 2 (15:24):
I mean because there's so much right.
I mean they got social medianow and things like that.
I think we had our own uh,obstacles and just things that
got in our way, but it wasn'tquite as dramatic as it is now.
Right, you had your parentsback then and maybe you had some
guys around you that make funny, whatever it was.
But now it's the pressure ofyou know what did someone say on
this page or what did someonesay in this forum, and things

(15:47):
like that.
But when, when you got intothose situations, like were you?
It just sounds like from thestories you're telling like you
were able to kind of just youhave the mentality of just to
overcome something and just tokeep pushing and just to keep
persevering.
What did you have?
A person that was kind of like,hey, don't worry, you know I
see you're stressing out aboutthis, don't worry about that,

(16:08):
just keep going uh I had somepretty good uh coaches, okay, um
, that you know, at least theyknew how to get the most out of
you.

Speaker 3 (16:20):
Yeah, and and at the end of the day, um, I think
probably what benefited me is mebeing a sport that my parents
didn't really know a lot about.
Yeah, there's not necessarily.
You talked a lot about pressure,so there's not necessarily a
bunch of pressure in terms of,oh, you got to do this, this and
this because right, they didn'tknow, I didn't know, yeah yeah
it's like oh okay, yeah he'sactive in something, he seems to

(16:43):
enjoy it and he's trying hardokay, yeah right there you go
you know so and then, um, youknow, the coach is just getting
the passion out of you, whichthat's probably the biggest
thing I could take from my highschool coaches is just drawing
the passion out of you and youknow, kind of again perfecting
your craft and getting better atit.
Yeah, where'd you go to highschool?

(17:03):
Lawrence central high school?
Okay, yeah, in Indianapolis.

Speaker 2 (17:09):
In Indianapolis.
Okay, so one of the assistantcoaches here is from Indiana,
zach Pearson.
I don't know if you ever heardof him, what high school.
Maybe Zach should chime in.
I know he's watching.
Okay, I want to say somewherearound the crown point area.
Okay, around there I can'tremember.
He's a region rat yeah, yeah,either that or was indianapolis.

(17:30):
I think he said that he grew upin indianapolis, but I can't
remember what school.
So he talks a lot about indiana.
You don't hear about it a lotlike even there are some kids
that when we're traveling arounddoing dual teams, that were,
you know, all those kids atindiana is blowing through
people.
I'm like indiana, like what'sgoing on down?

Speaker 3 (17:45):
there, you know, so it's indiana is, um, I I could
say it's hot and cold.
It kind of goes in cycles.
Yeah, you know, there there'ssome years where, in in terms of
the quantity and depth, there'sa lot, a lot of really talented
kids, yeah, and there are otheryears it's a little bit thinner
, sure you know so I mean I'msure every state goes through

(18:09):
it's, it's oh, yeah, it's cycles, hands down.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
I mean we had dave schultz here in the 80s.
Yeah, you know wisconsin wasdoing all right for a little bit
, and then you know you got yourdown down cycles, which happens
everywhere.
Yep, so it's so.
The high school you went to umand again we talked about
tournaments being different.
Recruiting was way different.
Then too, you're sending VHStapes and stuff.
You weren't sending video files.
You had to mail it out or youhad to write something out or

(18:34):
type it out or whatever.
When you were in high schooland I'll jump past your freshman
year and we'll talk about maybesophomore junior and we'll come
back to freshman quick itshouldn't, shouldn't bother too
much.
But where, where were you inthe thought process of once you
got into sports in high school?
Was it something?
Sports was something you wantedto continue getting out of high

(18:54):
school, it was just something Idid it's literally just
something I did.
This is amazing, so I don't getthis.
So this is guy.
My brain kind of works a littlebit.
Everybody was like, yes, I,this is exactly what I wanted to
do.
I was, I was so.

Speaker 3 (19:07):
So I always enjoyed watching sports.
Yep, and I guess it.
If a sport was on tv, I sat andwatched it yeah you know,
because I many, many moons ago,I thought I wanted to be a
sports broadcaster.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
Oh, you know, lucas peters there you go yeah yeah,
yeah, that's right, you know.

Speaker 3 (19:24):
But it was just something I did because I was
always taught you're just gonnabe involved with something, sure
, okay, but I I really didn't.
Um, this is probably bad and Idon't know if I should say this,
but um the door is wide openhere.
Man, like I didn't know who dangable was until my junior year
in high school.
Blasphemy, understandableCollege wrestling that really

(19:51):
wasn't.
I didn't think about collegewrestling until I got my first
letter.
Wow Okay, I was like oh okay, Iguess I could do this at the
next level.

Speaker 1 (19:58):
Now we're talking.
I just got a letter.

Speaker 2 (20:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (20:01):
But it never really.
I didn't have a vision.
Yeah, yeah, you know, but likeit, never really, I, I didn't
have a vision.
Yeah, you know, it wasn'tnecessarily painted for me, it
was just kind of like sure, youhave a passion for this, let's
just keep getting better, yeah,you know.
And then, uh, the coupleteammates I had, um, when I was
junior, they were senior, theywere getting recruited, okay,
you know.
And then, because they weregetting recruited, that's

(20:23):
probably why I got some interest, because, okay, I hadn't done
anything at that point.

Speaker 2 (20:27):
So, you got caught in the wrestling net.
Essentially is what happened.
They caught you and you're likeall right, I'm coming on the
boat.
Basically that's so it's forthe younger viewers out there.
We used to have things callednewspapers and the newspapers
didn't get clicks and likes, sothey wrote about what they
wanted to.
So Indiana may not have heardtoo much about Dan Gable in

(20:52):
those times.
So that's why I can understandwhy I didn't hear about him, or
or maybe even know, because hey,you just don't.
You just don't hear about itall the time and if you won the
Olympics in the seventies,you're definitely not going to
hear about them.
You know, in the in the earlyto mid-80s, after you're reading
the local newspaper, so that'sunderstandable.
But then you just get a letterhey, we'd like you to come on
over and wrestle at our college,and you're like, all right.

Speaker 3 (21:14):
What college was that ?

Speaker 2 (21:16):
It was the first letter.

Speaker 3 (21:19):
I want to say it was like Wabash or something like
that.
I mean a bunch of you knowsmaller D3 schools.

Speaker 2 (21:26):
Yeah, okay, you know so and that sparked your
interest a little bit more goinginto college.

Speaker 3 (21:32):
Yeah, because it's like oh okay, I can I could
probably do this at the nextlevel.
Yes, yeah, you know yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
So when, uh, when obviously you're going through,
still going through high school,did you that going through like
your freshman year school?
Did you that going through likeyour freshman year?
Where did you have goals likethese kids do now or again?
Was it just a hey, I'm justgonna show up and do my best?

Speaker 3 (21:52):
I'm just so every time yeah, so freshman year I
didn't wrestle, it was justfootball.
I didn't start, oh really, yeah, I didn't start wrestling in my
sophomore year, oh yeah wowyeah, yeah, so it was, it was
was.
I didn't have that long-termthought in my head.
Yeah, you know so it.
I mean, I didn't know how tothink long-term like that.

(22:12):
You know, as a kid, you're justgoing day by day, Okay.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
Doing your thing Okay .

Speaker 3 (22:17):
Today's Wednesday I go to school, I go to practice.

Speaker 2 (22:19):
All right, man.
So this is.
This is actually something thatI I'm completely interested in
because, number one, when Iplayed soccer and the sports
that I was in, I was on my own.
You know, I didn't, I didn'thave, I didn't go to camps like
liam gets to go to.
I didn't, and that's why hegoes, because I didn't.
I wasn't afforded that campswere to.
Yeah, it was non-existent to me.
My brother went to a couple,but if we went to a campus

(22:42):
because it was the olympicdevelopment camp down the road
and it was another practice wecould go to, didn't think about
an olympic team.
I was like, oh cool, it's anolympic development team.
I would go and then I make theteam.
My parents like what next?
I was like oh, you know, I gotno idea.
So I'm on the same path as whatyou were, that's right.
I wasn't getting letters fromcolleges when I was at on the
same path.
I was just doing something thatI really, really liked doing,

(23:04):
which was playing sports.
I found the one sport I didn'thave the availability because I
didn't like school.
Don't pay attention to that.
Kids Go to school, that's right, go to school.
I just wasn't good at it.
So when I got the choice to belike, well, I'm not going to be
able to do this, I kind of gaveup.
I'll be honest, it was one ofthose things where I was like,

(23:25):
all right, well, after senioryear, this is done.
So, you know, you kind of I Igot kind of, I guess, kind of
like a sports depression.
Were you ever at a point whenyou were playing sports,
whichever it was?
Did you ever think that youwould just, I'm good on sports,
I'm going to go do this overover here.
Did you ever want to stop doingsports?

Speaker 3 (23:44):
no, I always wanted to keep doing sports.
You know that's.
You know you gain confidencefrom it, you have fun.
Uh, you end up learning how tobecome a leader.
Yeah, you become team captain,all that stuff.
So you know, kind of the youngguys and the coaches kind of
expect things out of you.
You know you're modeling thebehavior you want to see.

(24:06):
So I always enjoyed that, youknow.
But it was always just, youknow, after high school you just
kind of figured, yeah, I'm doneI'm done, yeah okay, right, so
what?

Speaker 2 (24:19):
because now the story kind of turns more obviously as
you get older and with the,with the letters coming in.
What?
Where were your parents whenthese letters started coming?
What were the?
What was their thought?
You know as far as what werethey?
Oh, wow, okay, well, let's,let's explore this more.
You know, like, were they maybeones that kind of got you out

(24:39):
there a little bit more thanonce?
They saw that you had something?
Or were they just like okay,we're, we'll come along, what do
you, what do you need, my mom?

Speaker 3 (24:46):
always kept letters, okay, but the rule was always
job, military school after highschool.
Damn, those were your threeoptions, okay, and living at
home is not one of them that'smy option too yeah, my parents
were old school, so okay.
Okay, here are your threeoptions.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
So we'll figure it out, but so did you?
Did you explore the other two,I mean the other than school?
Did you explore military?
No, not at all.

Speaker 3 (25:15):
No, not at all, no no , I, I, my dad, was in the
marines.
Okay, I kind of felt like I wasin the military yeah, I'm good
on that.

Speaker 1 (25:24):
I'm like yeah good on that.

Speaker 2 (25:25):
Okay, I'm good, okay.
So school was obviously theoption.
You're getting letters.
Were you taking visits, wereyou?
How did that go back then?
Again, I missed the boat.
Oh.

Speaker 3 (25:38):
I just thought it was cool that you know, when you're
16, 17,.
Oh, there's a letter addressedto me Like normally all the
mail's going to your parents andlike, oh, there's something in
here for me, yeah.
But then my mom kind of keptall that stuff, so it really
didn't get serious till senioryear, Okay, when that was back,

(25:59):
when you kind of could still berecruited your senior year.
The recruiting has just changedso much now, yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
You know yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:07):
But again I don't know if I necessarily had a
long-term vision or plan andagain, nobody in my family had
really been down this path.
So yeah, New to everybody.

Speaker 2 (26:19):
Interesting, so no new road.
New road in general yeah, newroad in general.
Yeah, new road in general rightwhen you got to the point of
okay, I have these letters here.
How did you, was it makingphone calls to those coaches?
Did they come to your house?

Speaker 3 (26:33):
no, I was not good for people's good no, it was uh,
you know the letters, and ifthere was a questionnaire then,
uh, I think usually my mom wouldfill it out.
I, I really don't even rememberfilling out paperwork at all so
I think my mom did a lot of theheavy lifting there.
Okay, so what?

Speaker 2 (26:53):
did you how?
How did you pick?
How did you go through theprocess of finding out where you
wanted to go?

Speaker 3 (26:59):
that's kind of whoever called me the most
interesting though see how timeshave changed folks.

Speaker 2 (27:04):
They've changed immensely, right.
So what?
What interested you then?
What I mean?
Obviously you had to like whatyou want, what you were going
into your senior year.

Speaker 3 (27:14):
I mean whether yeah, so, so really again your
selection process.
I guess it was not a goodselection process.
But uh, going to my senior year, um the junior year in football
, and again, football isprobably still a little bit more

(27:34):
my passion.
Okay, and at least at thatpoint I'm better at football
than I am wrestling okay um, youknow, if, if anything was going
to happen, it was probablygoing to be on the football end,
in the back of my mind.
Okay, is you know what I'mthinking?

Speaker 2 (27:49):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (27:50):
And my junior year in high school, our team in
Indiana, the state series.
It's sectionals, regional,semi-state and state and our
high school had never won.
It had been a long time sincethey'd won sectionals and we got

(28:10):
to the.
You had to win like three gamesto advance to sectionals and
for the first time ever weadvanced.
I'm sorry, not the first timeever, but the first time in a
long time we advanced to likethe sectional uh championship
game.
Okay, um, and I think that yearwe played it was either
cathedral warren central, a teamthat's pretty good.
Yeah, we ended up, uh, losingum, you know it's kind of tough,

(28:35):
but it was like, okay, we'reagain, we're getting better,
let's.
Yeah, keep, just keep gettingbetter.
Yeah, you know you know, andthen senior year, um, we played
warren central in the sectionalfinals and they they're still
pretty good in the state ofindia.
They're kind of one of thepowerhouses, okay, in indiana
football.

(28:55):
So we end up beating them um.
And then we um, we um.
Who did we play?
no, I'm sorry, we beat munciecentral oh, okay, okay, muncie
central yeah, and then we endedup playing ben davis in the
regional, yeah, which they'realso another football powerhouse

(29:18):
.
Okay, uh, we ended up losingthem and it was this rainy,
muddy game and all that stuff,and you know like, okay, well,
this is probably my lastfootball game and so it is what
it is, and then move on towrestling.

Speaker 2 (29:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (29:34):
And what finally kind of got people's attention.
Not that I got a lot ofcoaches' attentions, but there
was a kid in the state.
His name was James Brim, he'sfrom Evansville, he had actually
wrestled my teammate the yearbefore and he beat my teammate

(29:56):
before my teammate ended upwinning state that year.
Okay, so the weight class was189, and it was me and him and
we had this tight match.
I think he lost like 2-0 or 3-0to him and all that stuff.

(30:16):
But then all those lettersstarted picking up from college
and I noticed the schools were alittle bit bigger and more
well-known on the wrestling endthan the football end.
I'm like, oh, people must havewatched this match, maybe a
little bit.
That's kind of where.
Okay, maybe I can do this incollege, the wrestling thing.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
Okay, what made you pick the school you went to?
What was that?
What was the school?
You ultimately picked indiana.
What made you pick indiana?
Close to home?
That kind of thing, no, I meandistance really wasn't a thing
for me.

Speaker 3 (30:51):
No, yeah, um I well, growing up, I'd actually never
really liked indiana, to behonest with you okay,
interesting it was alwaysindiana basketball was a thing
and yeah, you know, I was justkind of like, don't really like
that.
But yeah, you visit a place andyou kind of fall in love with
it and okay, I knew several ofthe guys on the team and you

(31:15):
know, just mingling with theguys on the team and all that
stuff.
Yeah, kind of, after that visitI was like, oh, maybe I can't
see myself here it feltcomfortable.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, so you, your, your choice
is that is indiana.
What was your, I guess, whatwas it like, as you're kind of
were you?
Were you excited about college?
Were you nervous, was it?
Uh, or was it just the nextstep?

Speaker 3 (31:40):
it was just kind of the next step, you know, and,
and, and I didn't know what toexpect in college.
Yeah, you know, like I was justlearning everything and you
know, were you afraid I wasprobably too stupid to be not
going there, not going there inmy basement, nope, so it's.

Speaker 2 (32:00):
I'm just.
It's intriguing because a lotof, again, a lot of what drove
you was just kind of inside,like it was your dad, you know,
said, hey, nope, you need to goto practice, right?
You need to do this.
It was just.
It's just what needs to be done.

Speaker 3 (32:14):
Yeah, and it seems to be the mentality it seems kind
of going through yeah, I meanyou kind of you don't know what
you don't know, and it's justlike you know, you keep putting
one foot in front of the otherand you just kind of keep coming
along and you know, like, likeI said, the only little um, I
guess you say mandate.

Speaker 1 (32:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (32:34):
Was again job, military school and after 18.

Speaker 2 (32:39):
You're out.
Yeah, yeah, that was it.
It's kind of our house rule,you know so, and I can I?
Can appreciate that and in afact of that, because, again,
this kind of our mentality aswell, it's not.
It's not that we don't love him, but it's time, yeah you know
it's time.
It's time to do you, it's timefor you to get your thing going,

(33:00):
you know.
So I can appreciate that,because it doesn't sound like it
was a God get out of here youknow, it sounds like it was a
hey, this is life.

Speaker 3 (33:10):
And this is the real world.

Speaker 1 (33:11):
Spread your wings at 18.

Speaker 3 (33:13):
Yeah, you're your real world options.
Yeah, you know.

Speaker 2 (33:16):
so what did you?
Did you encounter any type ofany type of uh like, uh, like uh
I don't want to say mentalbreakdown, but kind of like uh I
miss how it was type depression, you know kind of thing.
Did you ever run into that?
Or were you so involved inwhatever you were doing you
didn't have time to think aboutthat?
No, I really cause.

Speaker 3 (33:34):
I mean where I ended up going to school.
I'm not that far away from home, true.
You know home true, you know,um and uh, I always felt like I
was an independent type uhperson and, like I said,
wrestling was still new to me.
You know, yeah, going in myfreshman year it was sophomore

(33:55):
junior that was my fourth yearwrestling you know, I mean
you're talking.
Everybody else in the wrestlingroom probably has a good 10
years in.
I got four years and you knowlike I said I didn't know who
dan gable was and, like mycollege coach, duane goldman was
nc champ.
I had no clue I was like oh,that's kind of nice.

(34:15):
It's neat.
You know, like I'm just yeah,I'm so new and naive to
everything what was so becauseof the?

Speaker 2 (34:21):
I mean, you were in football and wrestling, now
going into a college room.
Was that a culture shock?

Speaker 3 (34:28):
Probably the shock was just the amount of what I
thought was hard work.
Yeah, and what was shown to meto be hard work?
Two different things, you know,like no, this is what working
hard is.
This, this is, you know, andyou just got to learn everything
.
Yeah, you know, and I, I, youknow, back then everybody had a

(34:52):
red shirt and I, a thousandpercent, I probably needed four
red shirts, you know, justbecause it I'm just so new and
naive to everything yeah, youknow.
So I really just kind oflearning, taking things in and
you know again.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
Just okay, I'm just trying to get better no, so
you're just in the room, quietlearning, taking in and what you
could um get my ass kickedright, yeah, for sure, for sure
but it sounds almost like themodel of what kind of like an
underclassman is almost expectedto do when they come in the
room, like you just payattention, listen, take it in
and you'll get your.

(35:27):
You know, get your wings as yougo along, just like mom and dad
wants you to get your wings,you know kind of thing.
So as you're going in throughthe college process and you get
into the room and you startwrestling, where did you wind up
in a starting position as youkind of got through it?

Speaker 3 (35:42):
so I had a red shirt and yep, uh, I'm obviously
looking back.
I wish I would have taken thata lot more seriously.
Um so, my red shirt, freshmanyear um, I could not.
197 that was my weight class.
I couldn't beat the guy we hada fifth year senior.

(36:02):
There was top 15 in the country.
Okay, I could not beat him.
So the coaches actually pulledme inside and said hey, why
don't you just wrestleheavyweight?
So you know there's anopportunity for me at
heavyweight.
So I end up wrestling and Ididn't have a very good year,
but but by the end of the yearagain keep getting better.
Yeah, I ended up qualifying fornationals Nice.

Speaker 1 (36:25):
You know.

Speaker 3 (36:26):
so I was.
I mean, I'm an undersizedheavyweight and the heavyweights
back then I'm trying to think.
I think Michigan had AaronRichardson.
It was multi-time All-AmericanMm-hmm Shelton Benjamin.
I remember that name.

(36:48):
Yeah, I'm trying to think ofsome of the other guys, but
there are a lot of.
It's been a while, heavy weighthas changed and back then, at
least to me, it felt like, yeah,back then it felt like these
guys were huge, right, you knowthey are, you know huge, right,
you know they are, you know,huge, and you know.
I just remember a lot of timesI got kind of got my butt handed
to me.

Speaker 2 (37:08):
Yeah, but heavyweight was fat.
Back then though, too, like thegames changed.

Speaker 3 (37:12):
Those guys weren't fat.
No Well, Shelton Benjamin endedup, you know, in the WWE.

Speaker 2 (37:17):
Okay, yeah, you're right, you're right.

Speaker 3 (37:19):
Yep, yeparon richardson, who he's a actually
a doctor now and and I'veconnected with him when I was at
beat the streets, I actuallyreconnected with him.
Okay, he's a successful doctorin chicago now you know, and he,
oh, he remembered me no offenseto those guys, I don't want to
be caught in the streetsomewhere.

(37:40):
No, no, but I mean, these guys,you know, were pretty ripped and
jacked and, you know, wasundersized and technique wasn't
very good, you know?
I mean, really the only thing Ihad was strength, and I'm
trying to out-muscle guys thatare bigger and stronger than me,
so it doesn't work all the time, right?

Speaker 2 (37:59):
So Okay, so obviously you have work, you know work to
do, but you already have thismindset of I just need to, I
just need to keep working, it'sgoing to pay off.
Yeah, kind of thing, thatmentality.

Speaker 3 (38:11):
So there's never really been, really at this
point, a breakdown point no, no,um, because, like I said, I
think I was just so new to toeverything that it's like I
didn't have time to.
You know, I'm just too new toeverything.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
Right, You're going, you're doing the thing and
honestly, that's a coach's dreamTrying to.
Obviously you're new, but stillyou're willing.
You're a sponge, You're willingto take it in.

Speaker 1 (38:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:36):
Once you, okay, you get through your first couple of
years of college, you know,made tournaments and what was
your biggest challenge as far asan opponent back then, besides
first starting, I mean,obviously we know, but once you
kind of got in the room and youhad some experience in ncaa
wrestling, who was your biggestlike challenging opponent?

Speaker 3 (38:55):
who, yeah, oh yeah, oh, gosh well, gosh well.
I had a couple of matchesagainst Brock Lesnar that.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (39:06):
Okay, it did not end up on my side, you know so not a
fat heavyweight not a fatheavyweight you
know, I mean, I was always, moreoften than not, the smaller guy
.
Okay, you know, and obviously II mean the big 10 has always
always been good.
So it's, yeah, super high levelconference and and um, a lot of

(39:28):
good guys, you know, comingthrough it so trying to figure
out, um, how, how, how to beatpeople in in just the mental
game and mental aspect of it,that post-college where you
really start diving into it andwhere you're kind of like, oh
man, I wish I would have donethis.
I wish I would have done thisman.

(39:49):
I really think I could havetaken off had I done X, y and Z.
So I mean I don't want to missanybody, but I just in the Big
Ten.
They were all very challenging,okay.
You know when I was, I think,either my junior or senior year,

(40:12):
tommy Rollins was coming along.
Aha, he's a two-time NCAAchampion.
Yep, he was smaller than theother guys, so I'm like, okay,
this guy isn't as big as theseguys.
Well, roland's had a lot ofgood technique and he was quick.
I was flat-footed and slow, soit's like, well, this is well,

(40:32):
it's not working out very wellfor me you know, yeah, where did
where did you wind up?

Speaker 2 (40:39):
I guess halfway, halfway like your junior year.
Was there a progression incollege for you as you were
wrestling?
Was there record-wise?
Or you lost to this guy oneyear but you beat him the next
year, kind of thing.

Speaker 3 (40:53):
So I had a lot of back and forth with a guy, matt
Lamb, from Michigan State.
Okay, as far as progression, Iwas getting better, but it
wasn't necessarily alwaysshowing you know, um, and like
freshman year qualified fornationals with sophomore year.
I actually ended up breaking myleg two weeks before big tens,

(41:15):
you know, and I was having asolid.
You know again, yeah, theprogression.
So that was kind of tough.
And then the guy they ended upputting in Big Tens for me how
it works at Big Tens is you arethe.
He had to end up because hedidn't have a record at the

(41:35):
weight, so he's the last seed,so he draws the tops.
I mean, his two draws that yearat Big were west hand and, um,
uh, brock lesnar so you know,and I was an undersized
heavyweight and this guy he waslike I think he was a 174
pounder, 174, 184 pounds, so hereally undersized yeah so yeah,

(41:57):
I'm sitting in crutches and inthe stands and I'm like, oh man,
I'm, I'm so sorry, so sorry,buddy, so sorry yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:05):
So you definitely had a progression.
I'm more impressed, obviously,by the mentality of just.
I mean, like you say, you justdidn't know You're doing just
what you thought you had to do,right to make things go.
At what point, once you, Iguess, got to, you know, like
junior, senior year, what wereyour thoughts of what you wanted
to do?
Did you have future thoughts ofthings that you wanted to do

(42:27):
from that point?
Because you got a lot, man, Imean, looking at the background,
the coaching that you did, andjust from the length of it.
You've been doing it a while.
It's not just like five years,you've been doing it, you've
been doing it for a while.
Man.
I tell everybody I'm the oldman on staff.
Yeah, there's nothing wrongwith that.
But I also want to know more oflike the.

(42:50):
There must be a passion thatobviously got put into you at
some point because you've beendoing it for this long now.

Speaker 3 (42:57):
Yeah, it's just, I think, what I've always liked
wrestling and this is probablyyou know, a lot of wrestlers
will tell you they're stubbornand sure you know, is Yep for
sure.
You know I've got thatstubbornness in me, but I kind
of like the independence ofbeing able to figure stuff out
and at the end of the day it'son you, yeah, right, so and

(43:21):
obviously I enjoyed my timeplaying team sports and all that
stuff but, you know you coulddo your part, but if somebody
doesn't do x, then you know theplay falls apart and all that
stuff which there's value tothat stuff too.
But I kind of like just the workyou put in and at the end of
the day it it's you and somebodyelse and you know if you fall

(43:44):
short, you got to look at youand figure out okay, what do I
need to fix?
You know, this book I'm readingLeading with Dignity.
In there it talks about, itsays something about failure
only means that something needsto change.
You know, and that you know.

(44:04):
I read that passage to our teambecause I think that's
impactful and just like you know, that's not a be all, end all
or a hey, this is where you are.
It's just like, okay, what dowe need to fix?
Yeah, and that's what we try tostress to our guys you know,
couldn't agree more with that.

Speaker 2 (44:22):
So you get through, you're getting through college.
Where do you start the coachingmindset when?
Where do you start to grasp tothat?

Speaker 3 (44:30):
So, probably, like everybody else, once you get a
degree, okay, now what I've beentold, get this degree.
I got this degree.
Now, what?
You know, what was your degree?
Uh, public affairs management,nice, yep, okay, yep, all right.
Yep.
So, um, I had an opportunityand dwayne was kind enough to

(44:53):
kind of, uh, keep me around andhelp out with the guys for a
year.
Yeah, um, but basically I endedup probably working a lot more
in coaching because I neededmoney, sure, so, no way, I ended
up.
As far as getting the passionfor coaching, I ended up moving

(45:16):
back to indianapolis and I wasan assistant coach for one year
at a inner city high school,arsenal technical high school in
Indianapolis.
Okay, nice, and that's kind ofwhere I got, I guess, the niche
for coaching, because the headcoach at the time he was ready
to pass this along and, hey, I'mdone.

(45:37):
And he basically, like, you runeverything, I'll do all the
paperwork and stuff, you know,make sure the bus is where they
need to be.
But here you go and, um, theteam had had the best season
that it had in 15, 20 years.
Okay, so I was kind of like,okay, hey, I had an impact.

(45:57):
Yeah, so I was like I kind oflike this, but I didn't feel
like the high school level wasnecessarily the level for me.
Okay, so, and I also didn'thave a teaching license.

Speaker 2 (46:10):
So at the end of the day, when the job came open, you
know, the ad was like well, wehired this guy because he has a
teaching license, so he's in thebuilding, you're, you're not in
the building yeah but we wantyou to still stay on and I was
like, nah, I'm good okay, okay,yeah, I'm not gonna be a teacher
, okay, so that was kind ofobvious, obviously a blocker,

(46:32):
but that obviously you hadsomething in your head.
I can do this yeah, yeah yeah,where did you go?
What?
What road took you where afterthat?

Speaker 3 (46:41):
then my old high school coach was actually
coaching at the university ofindianapolis.
Okay, so, and I can't rememberhow we got reconnected, but yeah
, somehow, yeah, we gotreconnected.
And somebody put in my headthat, well, you know, if you
help coach there, they'll payfor classes and you can go get a

(47:01):
master's or your teachinglicense and then you can do that
.
So I was like okay, well, maybeI'll do that.
Yeah, you know, and this wasthe college level, so I'm pretty
much fresh out of college.
So at the university ofIndianapolis at the time that
year they'd had the best seasonthat they'd ever had and we had
a bunch of other guys.
They were all in the room freshout of college and actually

(47:24):
we're working out with theseguys.
So it was probably a two-foldbenefit.
You know, I'm getting some ofmy classes paid for and, uh,
these guys at the university ofindianapolis are getting
probably this infusion ofworkout partners they'd never
had before.
Oh, okay, yeah, you know.
So, yeah, there was a, I was inthe room.
There's a one of my old highschool teammates.
He wrestled at michigan state.

(47:45):
He was in the room.
Um, there's another guy that,uh, wrestled at purdue.
He was in the room, you know.
So there was a bunch of guysjust fresh out of college, you
know, from division one level.
Yeah, helping out this divisiontwo team.
So spread some knowledge.
Yeah yeah, you know, soobviously that program took a
step up yeah, it's a little bitokay.

Speaker 2 (48:04):
So that was that was your first real, like college
opportunity to be able to coach.
Yep, was that scary, was that?
Was that a any type of fear foryou going through that?
Was that so new to you too thatyou were just kind of like,
okay, what do I gotta do?
Just next step, next step yeah,it's just kind of you know damn
it, mike, that's good.

(48:27):
I mean, hey, that's the bestmentality I was, yeah no, it, it
.

Speaker 3 (48:32):
But that's kind of where I started kind of
reflecting in terms of, okay,what changes could I've made
during my college career?
Where you start passing italong to other people, yeah, you
know, in terms of givingguidance, yep, you know, okay,
and stuff.
So I, I think, and just seeingon on my end, seeing that kids

(48:56):
are actually getting better,probably gives you more
confidence as a coach too.
It's like, okay, hey, this isworking, I'm actually getting
through to so and so becausesometimes you think you're
making it clear, you thinkyou're getting through to people
and nope, it's not happening.

Speaker 2 (49:13):
Giant wall, brick wall, yeah, it's not happening.
I I can agree with that,because I remember just coaching
little kids and there's a kidthat was afraid of a soccer ball
, right, just I mean, the ballwent up in the air and he ducked
like it was a bomb threat,right, and I in my head I said
I'm gonna make sure that thatkid, by the end of the season,
is not afraid of a ball.
I did a couple things maybethat I shouldn't have, but the

(49:34):
kid understood and it wasn'thurt, it wasn't anything like
real bad.
But I put him in a goaliebecause the balls can come at
you, yeah, and you can't runfrom it, because if you run from
it it's not gonna be good.
So I took him personally, I'dkick the ball while he's in the
goal and just like just him,just stand there, I'm not gonna
hit you promise, just trying toscore a goal.
Okay, so just kick it.

(49:55):
And finally I, by the end ofthe season, the kid, that ball
would be kicked out of his face.
He didn't even care.

Speaker 3 (50:00):
I love that.
Yeah, you know that's.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
That's that progression that I love, as, as
far as coaching, I didn't careif the kid scored a goal, I
didn't care if he passed theball properly, I just wanted to
look the ball in the eye If itwas in the air, coming in and
whatever.
So I can totally agree withthat when it comes to coaching,

(50:24):
knowing that you of an impactyou had a unique situation and a
unique opportunity with beatthe streets.

Speaker 3 (50:31):
Yes, how did that come about?
oh uh, well, um, one of my uhgood friends and teammates, uh,
mike powell okay he um, had avery successful coaching career
at Oak Park, river Forest HighSchool and his new passion
became Beat the Street Chicagoand there's a bunch of different

(50:52):
chapters and he was getting onthe ground floor developing that
.
And during COVID, wheneverything had shut down, we
just started Damn C-word.
We just started havingconversations and at this time I

(51:12):
had been coaching for a decentamount of time and I'm like,
okay, my goal is always, I wantto be a head coach, I want to be
a head coach.
At this point it hadn'thappened yet.
So I'm like, okay, maybe, know,my goal is always, you know, I
want to be a head coach, want tobe a head coach.
At this point it hadn'thappened yet.
So I'm like, okay, well, maybethis isn't in the cards for me.
Sure so, and Beat the StreetChicago they were looking to
expand and kind of look forsomebody to take over the kind

(51:38):
of wrestling aspect of it aswell as the enrichment piece of
it.

Speaker 2 (51:42):
Oh, okay, kind of wrestling aspect of it, as well
as the enrichment piece of it.

Speaker 3 (51:43):
Oh okay, yeah, you know so kind of, here's the
business side of it thatsomebody's going to take over
and in terms of the programmingand the wrestling portion, we
need somebody in charge of this.
So after a bunch ofconversations, I'm like you know
, why not?
Let's, let's try this, you knowknow, and it's, it's.
It was still a way for me to beinvolved with wrestling.

(52:04):
Um, it that was probably careerwise in in terms of being able
to shift, because coaching to memaybe it's kind of come
naturally, I guess but, leadingyouth and young people versus

(52:25):
leading adults two differentthings, you know.
getting kids that are kind ofalready part of a team to kind
of reach a shared and commongoal.
Mm hmm, that I found to be notas challenging as, okay, trying
to get adults to kind of do thesame thing, you know and there's

(52:51):
a challenge to it and and, um,you know, pal mentored me a lot
about um, you know, basically,kind of you you've got to lead
people and it's not your job tonecessarily do everything, but
your job is to kind of help setthis vision, you know, and there

(53:11):
was always books he wouldrecommend I read and, and you
know, he'd connect me withdifferent groups in terms of
people and just learning how tolead.
Because I had to learn how tolead, because I thought I knew
how to lead.
I had no no idea how to lead,sure, had zero idea how to do it
sure, so it's, that was achallenge and it took me a while

(53:31):
and that's that's probably thething that you're always
evolving and trying to grow in,and that's to this day, for the
last couple years, a lot of thebooks I read are leadership
focused and all that stuff,because I think it's just a

(53:52):
challenge.
It's a constant challenge Forsure, for sure.

Speaker 2 (53:56):
So it obviously brought you some unique
opportunities, unique challenges.
You were able to open up moreas a person sounds like, being
able to you know, understandthat I need to different things
I need to do to lead.
I'm not doing the right things.
Were there ever, um, uh, thechallenges that I guess maybe

(54:17):
made you decide to not do itanymore?
Was it too much or was it justthe time was up?
Like I, I got anotheropportunity that is more kind of
geared towards what I reallywant to do.
How did that?
How did that all go?
no, it it was uh, it's not likeyou only did it for a year, you
know, no, I I I did beat thestreets uh for two years there

(54:38):
and we had started uh duringcovid.

Speaker 3 (54:42):
When I first got on board, there were eight kids on
zoom wall and and that's uh, youknow, during covid, depending
on where you were kind of whatthe rules were and how everybody
treated it and in in chicagoand in the city it was treated.
You know um a certain way whereyou know uh, the protocols were,

(55:05):
I'd say followed probably to at.
Yeah, you know um, what helpedgrow our organization is
obviously everybody, I think,learned a lot during covet and
what a lot of the parentslearned is my kid, my young
teenage boy or girl or youth boyor girl, sitting at home and

(55:26):
doing nothing is not good,correct?

Speaker 2 (55:29):
period correct I don't even think it's good for
me as an adult, right you know?

Speaker 3 (55:32):
correct, correct.
So, uh, we were fortunate that,um, the in the process, before
I jumped on board, they hadalready bought a facility.
Okay, um, because they hadalready realized it beat the
streets Because before they werejust whatever high school or
gym had space.
Okay, this is where thepractice is today, so it's on

(55:55):
different days, it's atdifferent places.
Okay, of course that getsconfusing to people.
Sure, when you're dealing witha sport that you're trying to
introduce to kids and you knowkids have never wrestled before
and all that stuff, that it justgets confusing.
Everybody gets confused.
They got to work all day andthen, wait, you were here
Tuesday and now we got to gowhere and do what.

(56:16):
You know, they bought abuilding and they're like no,
we're going to have a dedicatedfacility where this is where
kids can come to.
Okay, so, um, once we'd finallyopen that, um, you know we still
had to follow kind of covidrestrictions and they started
easing back up and then, youknow, things got worse and all
that stuff.
So, back and forth, um, at onepoint covid had gotten so bad

(56:39):
again that at least in chicago,everybody had to have a VAX card
, or these were adults, theadults had to have a VAX card,
they wouldn't let you in thebuilding.
And the city of Chicago toldevery business you better
enforce this, and we're sendingpeople around to make sure

(57:01):
you're enforcing this.
If you don't, then we're goingto fine your business and all
that stuff.
What, yikes?
It was a thing.
And Chicago, depending uponwhere you are, people react to
those things.
I guess you could saydifferently Sure, yep, but at
the end of the day, we were ayouth organization.
Our goal was youth.

(57:22):
So we ended up coming to theunderstanding and our policy
became look, we're not trying toget political with this and,
yep, we don't care about yourstance on covid.
Yep, we're here for the kids,yep, so no parents are in the
building, whether you'revaccinated, not just you're

(57:42):
dropping your kid off.
Yep, you can stay in theparking lot if you want, but you
can't come in because we're notgoing to be the covid police.
We're like yeah we're not inthat business.
We're here to help get yourkids better.

Speaker 2 (57:54):
As a parent, I can appreciate that.
Yeah, yeah totally.

Speaker 3 (57:57):
Most of the parents were on board, yep, and they
were fine with it.
Yep, um, but what startedhappening?
And then, obviously, the springcame, we started getting more
and more people introduced towrestling because, again, the
parents are like my kid has todo something and they knew in
this particular neighborhood inchicago, hey, this place just

(58:17):
opened, it's a physical activity.
Go do it, yeah right no kidding, go do it.
Yeah, and I remember one parentcame up to me um, she was
picking her kid up and she saidI don't know what it is you guys
are doing here, but my kidcomes home, he's tired, he goes
to bed and he loves it thank youso she was like just keep doing

(58:42):
whatever you're doing.
Yeah, right, you know.
So we grew the organization andby the time I'd left it was
over 2000.
Uh damn mike uh, wow and and uh.
It was the largest wrestlingorganization in the united
states.
Wow, so well done.
Since then they've expanded.
I know they've opened upanother facility like so they're

(59:02):
they're doing a great job overat beat the street, chicago wow,
that's awesome.

Speaker 2 (59:06):
That's I mean honestly to to hear that that's
able to come out of thatsituation yeah the whole.
Just I don't even every time,and almost everybody that I've
had on here from collegeathletes coaches that covid shit
comes up all the time and it'slike I can't believe that kids
had to like endure, endure thestuff that adults were.

(59:26):
It was just crazy, and not evento politicize it, just thinking
about it in general and whatpeople had to go through.
So that's awesome that you guyswere able to pull that through.

Speaker 3 (59:36):
That's significant.
I mean, there's a great team upthere and there's a lot of
great leadership up there andthey got a vision and there's a
plan and, like I said, Ithoroughly enjoyed my time up
there.
Um so, and they got a visionand there's a plan and and, like
I said I, I thoroughly enjoyedmy time up there and it, it as
far as it, although it was shortas far as the two-year stretch.

(59:56):
I probably learned more inthose two years than I have in
my entire time coaching did.

Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
Did you find yourself because you talked about having
to learn how to lead?
Did you find yourself embracinghow to lead at that point?

Speaker 3 (01:00:11):
Probably not.
In the beginning I thought Iknew it.
I'm good, Sure sure You'restill learning a little bit more
, and then no, I'm not good.
You know.
Yeah, it's just different.
And then when you start talkingto other people and other
leaders and other organizations,you know some had similar

(01:00:35):
mission statements.
There was another organizationthat was pretty similar to Beat
the Streets, but they did itwith boxing.
Oh, okay, yeah, okay the streetsuh but they did it with boxing,
you know, okay, yeah, okay.
So we kind of had a group wherewe we would meet, uh, pretty
regularly and kind of discuss,you know, challenges and all
that stuff and a workshop alittle bit.
Yeah, yeah, um, but one of thethings that this guy shared with

(01:00:56):
me, that um kind of stuck withme and you know, ever, ever
since he said it.
Maybe it's just cause I'venoticed more people saying it
more, but you know, a lot oftimes where people fall short is
because the end goal isn'tclear or success isn't defined.
Sure, so if me and you aretrying to get to point B, but

(01:01:19):
I'm not making it clear to youabout what our mission is and
what exactly we should beaccomplishing, you might take it
one way, I take it another, andthen all of a sudden we're not
on the same page and you know,on different ways.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:01:32):
You know.
So one of the things hestressed to me is you have to
define what success is and makesure everybody understands that
this is what success is.
This is what it looks like.
Okay, he said, if you startfrom there and ever since then
I've been in different workshopsand they've all pretty much
said the same thing Define whatsuccess is, let people
understand this is what it isand then from there kind of work

(01:01:54):
backwards.
And that's where you kind ofgive people the freedom and the
autonomy to do it their way yeah.
Because my way may notnecessarily be the same as your
way, right, to do it their way.
Yeah, because my way may notnecessarily be the same as your
way, right, but if you know,this is our end goal.
This is what we're trying toaccomplish.
Okay, I know I have a way toget there.
That's fantastic.
Perfect, we can learn together.

Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
Perfect oh yeah, so you beat the streets.
Um what?
What was indiana?
Right after beat the streets?

Speaker 3 (01:02:19):
it was before and after.

Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
Before and after well , yeah, before, but then, right
then, right after, was Indiana.

Speaker 3 (01:02:24):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
Which is where you are now.
Yep, what brought you toIndiana?
Was it a phone call fromsomeone?
Or did you know of anopportunity that opened up?
And you're like, hey, how'dthat?

Speaker 3 (01:02:34):
happen.
It was a phone call.
An angel called me Mr Escobedo.
We had actually had him up for aum a clinic oh okay, I think it
was around the time we weredoing the first ever beat the
streets national duels.
Okay, yeah, you know.
And then called after and youknow we just started talking and

(01:02:56):
over the summer we just kind ofkept talking and then, you know
, talking to the ad and all thatstuff, yeah, um, I think,
having gone to school there,there's always a place in your
heart for you know what, whatyou define as you know home and
you you want to make sure that.
I want to see this program besuccessful and I, I know it can

(01:03:18):
be great, I know it can be eliteand you know, making sure that
it gets to that point yeah I, Ithink it's important, you know,
and and that's what we've beentrying to do the last couple
years here yeah, I'd say I meanyou a couple guys already.

Speaker 2 (01:03:38):
I mean a couple couple guys that I know of
already that are on the roster,but now you picked up some.
So I mean the vision hasobviously changed from where it
was right and angel angel takesover and things have come around
.
Now you're on board and thingsdo seem to be on the climb right
.
When you talk about definingsuccess, what is defining

(01:03:59):
success right now at theuniversity of indiana?

Speaker 3 (01:04:02):
well, the biggest thing that we teach our guys is
number one.
You got to give your besteffort, um, but we have, uh,
three core values that, um, whenwe are in the recruiting
process with kids, we want tomake sure that kids are aligned
with those you know growth,giving and gratitude okay and

(01:04:23):
three, okay, and Three G's,three G's, yeah, and there's a
huge sign in the wrestling roomthose are the three G's and our
guys know it.
Mm-hmm, when I came back wetalked earlier about, you know,
not necessarily everybody was onthe same page, yeah, but we had
a team meeting one time andthis was before the sign was up,

(01:04:44):
and I said do you know, do wehave values and all that stuff?
And you know, some of the guyssaid yeah, and I said, okay,
where are they?
And there's silence, crickets,and I'm like, oh, okay, this is
part of the problem.
I said the fact that we don'tknow this.

(01:05:05):
I said this is an issue yeah,so you know that.
Um, when I came back within thefirst couple weeks, we kind of
had to have a uh, if you willcome to jesus meeting, sure, um,
yeah, you know, and no, it willto anybody that was, you know,
in the team.
But you know, sometimes you gotto get everybody on the same

(01:05:28):
page and get the right people on, as they say, get the right
people on the bus, I'm bored thewrong people off the bus.
And yeah, that was kind of oneof those meetings where you know
this is where this program'sgoing.
You're welcome to come along,but there are no options.
Yeah, this is what we're doing,we're doing it this way.
Yep, you know.
So you defined it fairly well.

(01:05:50):
Yeah, yeah, and and I, I think,like I said, we have, we have a
great staff and um, you know,making sure we are getting kids
that align with those values, Ithink is extremely important
because I mean, at the end ofthe day, there's a lot of people
that could teach wrestlingmoves to people like, sure, yeah
, you, you can find thousandsand thousands of coaches to do

(01:06:10):
that.
You know, um, but making sureyou're getting the right kid and
coaches that are selfless andpouring into the kids to get the
best out of them, you know, Imean, at the end of the day,
angel always says, um, he, hewants somebody to kind of beat
all his records in Indiana.
Sure, you know, yeah, so youknow we got a great staff.

(01:06:32):
Where you know, you got AngelEscobedo.
He's a four-time All-American.
Yep, you got Riley Lefevre he'sa four-time national champ.
You know, trained over at theNittany Lion Wrestling Club.

Speaker 1 (01:06:42):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (01:06:45):
You got.

Speaker 2 (01:06:45):
CJ Redd.
Uh, you know, trained over atthe nitty-gritty lion wrestling
club.

Speaker 3 (01:06:46):
Yep, you got cj red, you know he was just joining the
staff, I believe, right, yeah,he's the young buck and he, uh,
he connects with young kidsreally well.
I'm, I'm the old man on staffand he, he's the young buck.

Speaker 2 (01:06:56):
That's a it's a great dynamic.
I mean, you have something totouch each kind of area of
whatever an athlete, yeah,essentially, is kind of needing
to be able to kind of grow.
So I think that's.
I think that's a path tosuccess in my mind, as far as
anything that you guys aretrying to do.
Obviously you can only do somuch.
The rest of the people have tofollow along.
So so that's where you're at nowand you're making your trips

(01:07:19):
right now and kind of doing theoff season thing that I'm sure
there's probably 30 othercoaches driving around and doing
other stuff like that right nowtoo.
So much luck to you guys, um,but uh, I guess at the end I
don't want to keep it to it.
We've been going for about anhour.
I want to give you theopportunity for shout outs and
to whoever if it's coaches,things like that and then I

(01:07:41):
think I want you to givesomething to the kids.
As far as what are you as acoach and it probably could
apply to almost every coachthat's out there when it comes
the ncaa, what are you, as acoach, looking for in an athlete
?
we know the three g's talk aboutthat that's right what are,
what are the?
What are the three, like someother things that you think that
that you would want an athleteto present to you.

Speaker 3 (01:08:02):
Yeah, yeah, um, as far as what athlete presents,
obviously, um, one of the thingswe talked about earlier is, I
like, when I'm recruiting, Ilike showing up to practice.
Yeah, yeah, I think I justlearned so much more about a kid

(01:08:23):
, their environment, how theytrain, how they treat people, um
, and that that helps with theevaluation process, cause,
obviously, you, you can tell ifa kid can wrestle like that.
That takes two minutes.
You're obviously watching themfor a reason.
Yeah, okay, this kid knows howto wrestle.
You know, and I always try totell people, once coaches and

(01:08:47):
this is in any sport oncecoaches have identified okay,
you have the physical tools andcapability to compete at this
level, a coach is really nowtrying to find reasons why
shouldn't they be here?
What you know?
So they're peeling back thelayers and you know, as a coach,
you're trying to talk to asmany people in the kids, uh,

(01:09:08):
inner circle yeah um, to figureout.
You know what, what makes thiskid tick, you know?
Is there anything I need to beaware of and yeah, you know, at
the end of the day, we we wantkids that love wrestling, you
know, because they're gonna behard.
Everything's not gonna be thisnice linear journey and you know
it's gonna be ups and downs,yeah, and you gotta have a

(01:09:29):
passion and a love and a drivethat keeps you going.
Yeah, because when it's noteasy, you know mom and dad
aren't there, you know.
You know mom's not there to hugyou.
Yeah, that's tough you know, youknow the coaches might be on
you.
You know, you know.
So, like, yeah, you know theevery eternal journey about you
know, you know the coaches mightbe on you, you know, you know.
So, like you know the the everyeternal journey about you know,
I just keep trying to getbetter, keep trying to get

(01:09:49):
better.
And you know, see how kidsreact when things are difficult.
That's, that's probably thebiggest thing that I want to
know when things are hard.

Speaker 1 (01:09:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:09:58):
We.
You don't necessarily get whatyou want.
How do you respond?
You know?

Speaker 2 (01:10:05):
I think I've heard that before.
Yeah, I think it's so.
Like I said it's, it seems likeit's what every coach is
looking for, like where are youat when the chips fall?
Yes, you know what?
Are you still crying beforeyour third place match comes up,
or whatever?
Or have you gotten over,because now you have to focus?
So, yeah, I think I'd say Ithink that's, I think it's
beautiful inside.
I think it's honestly the realthing.
That kind of keeps coaches intune with any of the kids,

(01:10:27):
because, like you said, you canwatch a kid wrestle at a
tournament, but a kid in awrestling room, in a practice
room, that's where he might showthe stuff, because he's under
pressure.
He's got to do certain thingsat a tournament In a practice
room, he doesn't have pressure,he's normal Joe, everyday Joe.
What's he look like when he'severyday joe?
That that makes a lot of sense,because a lot of parents live

(01:10:48):
off this fact that they thinkthat, well, every college coach
is watching this portion of yourtournament and are they, though
, like, are they watching everyaspect of the tournament?
They may watch a couple, sure,once they see that couple, then
they're like okay, we got thatnow.

Speaker 3 (01:11:01):
What a a little secret about college coaches at
tournament that's more justabout face time to say, oh yeah,
I was here, all that stuff.
Okay, like, okay, they alreadyknow if you could wrestle or not
.
So, like I mean, they're thereto say, hey, I was here and all
that stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:11:18):
And then obviously you can rub elbows with parents
and all that stuff, you want todo that, but right, right, okay,
they already know you canwrestle, okay, so so that's, I
guess, one more, one morequestion before we get to the
shout outs here when you guys doyour weights and scales of a
guy that you're interested in Imean, obviously you're not going
to travel are you looking upresults at least?

(01:11:38):
Then, okay, how did he do hereand what was that like?
Oh okay, this happened here.
Let me check that one matchup,if there's a I'm coming from a
coach's frame of mind on that.
This isn't even like a parent,really.

Speaker 3 (01:11:49):
This is yeah, okay, if, if, if there's like a
particular high level tournamentwhere you know there's a a
bunch of kids you know whereyou're like they competed
against these similar type kids,that's fine Okay.
But like I said, at the end ofthe day, you know, I mean you
can take.
I mean Fargo just happened right, I mean you know you run that

(01:12:09):
tournament back 10 differenttimes, you probably get in 10
different results.
Sure, you know that particularweek it turned out, however it
turned out, is that muchsuperior to the kid that took
eighth and all that stuff.
And you know I mean there arekids that didn't place, that are
more than capable of placing,you know for sure.
So results are.

(01:12:31):
I mean, at the end of the day,yes, you have to have the skill
level and the abilities tocompete right at at the division
one level and for us, the big10.
But once we identify that,which it's pretty quickly in the
recruiting process, like I said, it's more all the other stuff
that we're trying to dig andfigure out and obviously making

(01:12:51):
sure are you the right fit?

Speaker 2 (01:12:53):
Sure, yeah, cause you're like you said, you're
trying to create an environmentwhere it's a successful
environment.
So you want to have those kidsthat are going to come in and
present that and put thatthrough.
So I can appreciate that.
So shout outs.
You got any?

Speaker 3 (01:13:08):
Shout out to the heart all the hardworking
coaches out there.
That's right.

Speaker 2 (01:13:11):
That's right, keep it , you're one of them.
I'm going to say you're one ofthem, that's fine, perfect.
Um, I, same thing from here.
Um, I, I appreciate what youguys do.
I appreciate the time you guysput in.
So this is not easy.
You're sitting in my basementright now.
Does anybody understand thatthe time he's putting in?

Speaker 3 (01:13:30):
I was destined to be here so we appreciate that.

Speaker 2 (01:13:34):
We appreciate your time.
We are going to end thisbecause it's time to end it and,
uh, we're gonna go.
That it's been another episodeof the vision quest podcast.
It's been a pleasure, mike.
Mike, I appreciate you, mrDixon, for joining me on such a
late night.
I appreciate you making yourway here.
I wish you nothing but luck.
Obviously, we'll talk a littlebit once we're done here, but
that's about it, folks.

Speaker 1 (01:14:03):
We're out, thank you.