January 14, 2024 • 35 mins
Quyen, the owner of Anchovies and Salt, shares his remarkable journey, from growing up in Vietnam to establishing his successful Vietnamese restaurants in Seattle WA.
**Early Beginnings and Culinary Memories:**
- Quyen grew up in Vietnam, learning to cook at a young age, often preparing rice for the family using an open fire.
- Fond childhood memories include using bamboo pipes to control the fire, resulting in playful moments and charcoal mustaches from the smoke.
**Immigration Journey:**
- Quyen and his family migrated to the United States through an immigration process, spending time in a refugee camp in the Philippines before settling in Washington.
**Entrance into the Restaurant Industry:**
- Quyen entered the restaurant industry to create job opportunities for family members who had migrated to the U.S. during challenging times.
**Creating a Unique Restaurant Atmosphere:**
- Anchovies and Salt aims to transport customers to Vietnam, creating a culturally rich and beautiful ambiance.
- Quyen emphasizes the importance of storytelling to dispel preconceived notions about Vietnamese cuisine, highlighting the depth and variety of flavors.
**Challenges and Adaptation:**
- The restaurant faced challenges with changing dynamics in areas like Renton, Kirkland, and Sodo due to the pandemic, affecting customer traffic.
- Quyen remains resilient, focusing on telling the story behind Anchovies and Salt to foster a deeper connection with the community.
Website: https://www.anchoviesandsalt.com/
IG: anchoviesandsalt
Season2
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Quyền Phan (00:11):
Thank you, sir.
Michael Dugan (00:12):
How are you doing today?
Quyền Phan (00:15):
I'm blessed. I'm blessed.
Michael Dugan (00:16):
You're blessed.
That's a beautiful thing to say.
I wanted to get started withwhat it was like growing up for
you. It's the first thing youremember cooking or eating as a
child. You'll remember a lot ofwork. Oh, work, okay.
Quyền Phan (00:31):
Like we grew up.
Humble. So we, we always workearly. I was cooking rice since
I was like, probably five, sixyears old.
Michael Dugan (00:44):
Oh my gosh. Okay.
And when you were doing that,were you working in restaurant?
Quyền Phan (00:49):
No, it was more like the homestyle. Okay, open fire
just cooking rice. Making surerice is ready when my parents
came home from work or came infrom the fields. Okay, don't
have high low temp. Back in thedays we will use a bamboo shoot
a bamboo stick. Oh, drill a holein it and use it like a flute so
(01:12):
I can blow air into the fire. Itwouldn't make the fire. The heat
rises or lower. You would lowerthe fire by spreading the call
out. You would increase the heatby blowing on it with a bamboo
pipe. Those are some funmemories. I remember just having
black circle or charcoalmustache.
Michael Dugan (01:30):
Oh my gosh. From the smoke.
Quyền Phan (01:33):
Yeah.
Michael Dugan (01:34):
Wow. Okay, were there any favorite things that
you'd like to eat as a kid?
Quyền Phan (01:39):
Again, we always pretty humble. Okay. Actually,
morning time was pretty good.
There would be a kind of like alocal lady that would walk by
the farm. Just like an ice creamtruck. Okay. And she would have
kind of like a sweet dessertbreakfast.
Ooh, soy milk. Okay.
It's almost like it's like asteamed rice cake. It looks like
(02:00):
a honeycomb. Okay. There'speople who've made it really
popular in the United Statesnow. And
Michael Dugan (02:06):
What is it called in the United States?
Quyền Phan (02:08):
Honeycomb cake,
Michael Dugan (02:09):
honey cupcake.
Okay. Yeah,
Quyền Phan (02:11):
I think that's that's one way to say it because
it looks exactly like ahoneycomb inside.
Michael Dugan (02:16):
I see. Is there a Vietnamese word for that one?
Bah, bah. Okay.
Quyền Phan (02:22):
It's translated into beef, beef cake, but let's get
none to do with beef. Oh,interesting.
Michael Dugan (02:27):
Okay, I see. So loosely translated into
beefcake.
Quyền Phan (02:31):
Yeah, I wouldn't call it that. It just more is
beef. So man is any type ofcake. So but I'm not sure why
that name came about.
Michael Dugan (02:41):
And so you grew up in Vietnam? Yes, sir. Okay.
And how long were you inVietnam.
Quyền Phan (02:47):
Untill I was nine, nine. Okay. And so then did you
move to the states? Did you movesomewhere else?
We migrated through animmigration process, okay. And
ended up in the Philippines forsat like at a kind of like an
educational refugee camp, okayto learn English to transition
for seven months. And then wecame to Washington.
Michael Dugan (03:10):
And oh, so you came to Washington. So like the
Renton area or a different partof Washington, Spokane,
Washington Spokane. Okay. I'vebeen to Spokane a few times. We
both live in Washington just forour listeners. So if you're
tuning in for the first time,Quyen, and I live in Washington
State, and he actually has anamazing restaurant called
(03:33):
Anchovies and Salt. That isliterally a few blocks from my
house. And I've been there threetimes. And his grand opening has
been the beginning of January,essentially, of 2024. So love
your food. And that's how we gotconnected. And that's how we're
having this conversation today.
So Quyen, when you were growingup, was there anything you
(03:55):
wanted to do? Like when you gotto the states? Did you have a
thought I want to do this. Like,I want to be a fireman. I want
to be a zookeeper. Those werethings that went through my mind
as a child, but
Quyền Phan (04:09):
I know I have big dreams. I want I wanted to be a
basketball player. Basketballplayer
Michael Dugan (04:14):
really? Okay.
Yeah. Well, how do you know whatposition you want to play?
Quyền Phan (04:19):
I played point guard.
Michael Dugan (04:20):
So you knew then.
Oh, wow. Okay, so did you watchbasketball in Spokane?
Quyền Phan (04:24):
I did. We played a lot of basketball on the
playground. Okay, I live nextdoor elementary school. So cool.
There was like a half a blockwalk. Okay. We spent all day on
the playground.
Michael Dugan (04:37):
I got it. Were you any good?
Quyền Phan (04:39):
I liked the think so not that good. It was fun.
Michael Dugan (04:42):
Of course.
Playing soccer at school. Andthe way we played soccer was
very different the way formalsoccer is so there's groups of
kids, right? So there's probably30 kids on one side and 30 kids
on the other and you throw theball in the middle and they try
to get the ball to the goal. Butthere's 30 Kids, there's no
positions, right? There's just agroup of people that move around
(05:05):
on the field. And that's how Istarted playing soccer as a kid.
were no rules. It was just kickthe ball and try to score,
right. That's amazing. Yeah, itwas a lot of fun. I always loved
to playing soccer.
When I grew up, I wanted to bean African game hunter. And
that's what I really wanted todo. And what I mean by that is I
wanted to go and rescue animals,in Africa and in different
(05:29):
places. And when we were kidsliving in Washington, I lived in
totem Lake outside of Kirkland,Washington. And I remember going
on these little adventures inthe woods and finding snakes and
frogs and salamanders and allkinds of animals, and we
collected them. And we actuallyhad a neighborhood Zoo. So
that's why I wanted to be anAfrican game hunter. I was
(05:51):
pretty young. And both my twobrothers and my sister, we kind
of put this suit togetherchildhood memories really
influenced you. So now you ownthis amazing restaurant, or you
launched this amazing restaurantcalled anchovies and salt. What
inspired you to open aVietnamese restaurant?
Quyền Phan (06:08):
For this one in particular is my seventh venture
I started in 2012 just a way tocreate jobs for family growing
up restaurant jobs was alwaysthe lowest hanging fruit for my
family members, my mom, mysisters who migrated to the
United States late, it was justcreating jobs, opportunities
(06:28):
because they came to the UnitedStates around 2008, 2009. Okay,
really hard times, right? We hada recession in 2009. And I
started my first one in 2012.
Wow, I have a background in inconstruction kind of started out
of the recession as well,because I needed to create jobs
for my brothers be in that theymigrated here late, they don't
(06:50):
have any English skills, justsomething for them to get their
foot in the door. So that wasworking for me for a few years,
until they could find somethingthat could give them health
insurance, young stability forthe family farm, creating jobs
for my brother in constructions.
I became I went to startbuilding out the first
(07:12):
restaurant for my sisters sawthe dynamic of the restaurant
industry and The Good, the Badand the Ugly kind idea. And just
always thought I'm like, we candefinitely do better than this.
Oh, definitely excel at least
Michael Dugan (07:27):
Walk us through a couple of the restaurants just
kind of some of the was thefirst restaurant Vietnamese.
Yes,
Quyền Phan (07:34):
I took over a place called a Renton Delhi. It was in
a in the strip mall Plaza, up inthe rent in Highland. Okay, a
hole in the wall, literally onthe side of a building, the
infrastructure was there. So itneeded just cosmetic. The
previous owners was strugglingreally bad. And they just want
it to walk. I rememberremodeling it in nine days. Oh,
(07:57):
my gosh, the city came two daysbecause they said I needed a
permit just to move someelectrical outlets. And that's
when you start to learn aboutrules and regulation. Luckily,
it was a super easy over thecounter permit just to move a
few outlets. I remember buyingthe restaurant on February 28th.
(08:17):
And opening on March 9.
Michael Dugan (08:19):
Oh my gosh.
That's quick.
Quyền Phan (08:21):
Yeah, no, gameplan No, nothing, just a we need to
open because we can't afford tojust pay rent and rabbits in
that. Yeah. And it was wet, verywell received, especially by the
Vietnamese community becausethey saw that we had authentic
food. So it was a follow up onme. And everything else. And I
(08:41):
quickly realized how hard thiswas in terms of trying to give
people such a big menu. Yeah,very much under appreciated
because the stigma of Vietnamesefood is that it's cheap. Nobody
wanted to pay more than $10 foranything, oh my God, no matter
how much love or how muchquality ingredients you put in
there, it was just this ceilingthat we kind of self imposed on
(09:05):
ourselves as a community in2012, which is only 10 years
ago. It was it's really hard toget anything to go above $10.
Wow, one of the saddest thing Iremember was that my competitors
and my neighbors, they lowertheir price the whole menu down
to 699.
Michael Dugan (09:22):
Because they were competing.
Quyền Phan (09:23):
Yeah, I was like, wow, this is the saddest thing.
How, how do they use do that tothemselves, just so that they
can kill the competition nextdoor? extremely sad.
Michael Dugan (09:36):
Yeah, I'm sorry.
That's, it's tough enough in therestaurant business. I mean, oh,
yeah. You've managed to succeed.
So what happened after that?
Quyền Phan (09:45):
I quickly realized that the business model wasn't
sustainable. It didn't makesense to have the sales number
but not the profit margins andputting in all the work, right.
I'm always naturally growing up.
Math is as always A strong suitin it my family. So Oh, wow. I
ran some numbers quickly. And Isaid, Oh man, let me do a quick
(10:05):
case study. And I looked up,what's the highest gross profit
margin in the industry? Andthat's when I learned the
chipotle model. Oh, okay.
McDonald's, I think they netlike 3%. Yeah. But you know,
they own all the real estate,right? Chipotle was like,
(10:27):
highest. They even as big asthey are, there was netting,
like around 11% at the time. Oh,wow. So as I said, Okay, so I
started Googling, searching tosee if there was any Vietnamese
restaurants that had thatconcept. Okay. And there wasn't
really any fast, casualVietnamese restaurant in the
(10:48):
country at that time that I knowof. So I basically followed the
chipotle way with Vietnamesefood. It turned out great. took
me four years to get anylandlord to trust me. So I
opened my first one in SouthLake Union 2016. It was called
Venus and now it's called Venusand sun of Vietnam is the
(11:11):
acronym. Beautiful. Anything inVietnam? That is, there's a lot
of names. That is Vina thisVina? Vina food Venus. So I just
thought Marina Sutton might bejust the only thing that I could
find that was not really a playon the word file.
Michael Dugan (11:30):
Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Something unique.
Quyền Phan (11:36):
Yeah. And it's something I needed to trademark
because I like, I'm a dreamer.
So I always wanted to, like,Okay, how do I scale? How do I
wrap a Vietnamese brand? How doI become like, Chipotle or Panda
Express kind of idea. So Itrademarked the name. I open
February 24 2016. I believe itwas crazy, because I have a
(11:58):
handshake lease with mylandlord. Oh, wow. I gave my
life savings to this dude. Yeah,to walk away that that owned it
previously. Because I love thatlocation. But the previous
owner, he didn't have any lease,but he knew he had Amazon all
around him. He knew he hadsomething good, so he wouldn't
let go of it. I see. Iapproached the landlord really
(12:21):
nice Turkish gentleman orschool. So he's like, Yeah, I
don't do leases. So I justlooked them into is it man, if I
pay you the rent, please don'tkick me out. And he's a
gentleman. So he's like, No, Iwork on a handshake. Oh my gosh,
if I shake your hand, I'm notgonna kick you out. That's
incredible. So I remember givena lot of money to the previous
(12:42):
owner and asking him to walk inhe did. It was instant success.
Because, wow. Amazon country wasgrowing 1016 Now, I'm located
right there on Westlake andDenny right next to Whole Foods.
Oh, that's incredible. Andhopefully that time that whole
food was the number one wholefood in America. Okay, just
(13:03):
floods of people walking towardsthat whole food plant. So
naturally, I'm very visible thatwe had this very fast, quick
concept. And it just did reallywell. We did well. So that was
my first location. And that was,it was in the middle of very
much urban neighborhood. Oh,that's perfect. Yeah. 2017 I saw
(13:23):
Amazon was growing and theybuilt our Amazon fulfillment
center. Now in Kent. And Ididn't know any better. I'm
like, what they gotta be like100 employees, no, like seven
800 employees and that giantwarehouse, they are going to
flip over to my restaurant toeat. So I open a second location
in Kent right next to the Amazonfulfillment center. Wow, that
(13:48):
worked out well. But to mysurprise, the clients were from
Amazon, because 30 minuteswasn't enough time for them to
leave.
Michael Dugan (14:00):
Oh, okay
Quyền Phan (14:01):
To come eat.
Michael Dugan (14:02):
Yeah, it's not close enough. But
Quyền Phan (14:03):
Luckily we did very well. Wow. So that was more like
an industrial restaurant.
Michael Dugan (14:09):
Yeah, that makes sense in Kent. Yep. Boeing
maybe. Yeah.
Quyền Phan (14:14):
And then but Boeing at that time they left. That's
right. When they, they all I wasright behind Boeing. So they
left that neighborhood in Kent.
Oh, okay. But luckily, we stilldid well, well enough for me to
test out. My my concept in asuburban area. I always told
myself if I if my concept cansurvive in urban, suburban and
(14:37):
industrial, then I havesomething that that would thrive
if I plan on scaling at founderall Mongolian grill in
Sammamish. That was shut downfor a long time.
Michael Dugan (14:51):
I might have gone to that Mongolian Grill.
Quyền Phan (14:54):
Yep, it's right there in the Saffron Plaza up
there. Yeah, I rememberSammamish doesn't have any
Vietnamese food. I rememberwalking into the city to get a
permit and it was a moment. Iwish I could record it. Okay,
when I submitted for permit, thewhole staff inside the city hall
came out and gave me a standingovation.
Michael Dugan (15:13):
Oh, that's amazing. Oh my gosh, you're
incredible. Wow. I'm reallyemotional right now. That is so
awesome.
Quyền Phan (15:20):
No, it was so fun.
Because there's like, man,they've never had Vietnamese
food. And this man was Highland.
Wow. It was fun times. So Ibuilt that in 2018. I feel one a
year with my constructionbackground. Landlord was
starting to believe in me andgiven me a little bit TI, but I
save quite a bit because I dideverything myself. It was me and
(15:44):
my team. Now it's 2018. It wentreally well. Obviously, by the
end of 2019. I was looking atexpanding to Kirkland urban, the
new Google Campus. Oh my gosh,yeah. Thinking that Google would
anchor this place. It's a mixeduse this building this apartment
is people. But there's alsoGoogle workers, right? They have
(16:07):
two three building there. Lookat that pandemic hit. And I have
such a great location that Isigned, knowing that it was a
pandemic, right. Yeah, butnobody, I couldn't foresee how
long it would last. So I signedearly 2020. We negotiated until
probably late 2020. Submit itfor permit, build out the
(16:29):
construction during the middleof COVID. A lot of issues
regarding supply chain andlogistics and all that. We were
still very blessed doing our ownthing. So we It wasn't really
too dependent on people.
Michael Dugan (16:42):
Oh my gosh,
Quyền Phan (16:43):
So I opened may 27 2021, three days on my son was
born your son. You know, my sonwas born on May 24. Yeah, I was
praying that he come out so thatI can grand open and not have
them be born in the middle.
Yeah. So we did that. That waswhen I would think it was still
50 50 50%, half open 75% open.
(17:07):
The pandemic was rough. So goingthrough all of that sales was
dropping like crazy, but then itpicked up because our model was
always met. Designed to be quickservice to go paperback. Okay,
yeah. So I did that. During allof this one of my friend called
me and he goes, Hey, there's alocation in Sodo, downtown
(17:28):
Seattle is really good location,and they walk in away because of
the pandemic. I'm alwayscurious. So I take a look at it.
I liked it a lot, shook handswith them, pending approval by
the landlord. We negotiatingwhat the terms would be. I saw
the terms going forward, whatlease they had, and the numbers
(17:51):
just didn't work out. Okay. Isaid I couldn't do it. So I
walked away from the deal. Andthey ended up walking away too,
because the numbers independentI was hitting them too hard.
Yeah. After the fact, the placewas vacant. The landlord reached
out to me and was like, Hey, canwe renegotiate the lease give
you a brand new lease. And thattime, I'm thinking okay, COVID
(18:12):
might be better now. Thingswould be better. And I got a
brand new restaurant. Oh mygosh, why? Because it's already
built out. Just needed. Somelike cosmetic work, and a good
deal by the landlord. I tookthat as well. And I opened that
November 9 2022. Basically fiverestaurants in five and a half
(18:37):
years.
Michael Dugan (18:37):
That's amazing.
Yeah.
Quyền Phan (18:39):
But you know, the it started off all really good. And
it's still like, a nice, I wouldsay streamline business model.
We got very lucky. Our model iskind of built for post pandemic
and India. I expected so muchmore a lot of moves were wrong.
Like the Amazon can't employeesnever came. Yeah. When I was in
(19:02):
Kirkland. Only 5% of Google'semployees probably back,
Michael Dugan (19:07):
right. Oh, because the pandemic?
Quyền Phan (19:09):
Yeah, they still not back. And when they do come back
once a week or twice a week,Google gives them food for free.
Right. So it was it's like howdo I compete with this when my
landlord gives the Employee Freefood? Yeah. And then there's no
employees coming in. And whenthey do come in, they get free
food. Okay. And it was the samething in in Soto because
(19:34):
Facebook is a matter of is inthe office is above the
building. Okay. And it's beenthree years, two years. I
haven't seen one Meta worker.
Michael Dugan (19:45):
Yeah, everybody pivoted to working from home.
Yeah, I mean, it's crazy.
Quyền Phan (19:51):
They come in, they would go into the elevator from
the garage, they go up and theywould go down and go home. Oh,
wow. It's like it's not asvibrant as I thought it would
be. Luckily, I mean, we'resurviving. I prefer to be
thriving. That's just the honesttruth of this business or the
restaurant world. Yeah,definitely put a lot more
content out there. Like, betterunderstand the story. The first
(20:14):
thing when people look at myconcept is this big corporate.
It looks too beautiful for it tobe Mom and Pop. Yeah, it's
likely watered down. It lookstoo much like a Chipotle. These
guys don't know what they'redoing. The pre conceived notion
of us being watered down,doesn't give people a fair
chance to really judge our food.
They don't understand that Icook my Pho for 24 hours, I cook
(20:37):
my chicken Pho with pastureraised free range and chicken. I
cooked my vegetable broth with100 pounds of really good
veggies. And we put so much loveinto the food. Oh, but people
will not see that.
Michael Dugan (20:56):
I saw it. My wife saw it. That's why we've been
back three times in less thantwo months.
Quyền Phan (21:01):
Yeah, that's really not anyone's fault. It's our job
of storytelling. We need to bethe one to really connect with
the community. And because I'vebeen working so hard, you know,
lucky my head down when, youknow, building six restaurants
in seven years, right? Yeah.
Yeah. It's insane, to say theleast. So I finally kind of
(21:23):
like, okay, let's take a deepbreath and start connecting with
people have to kind of let thecommunity know that the story is
not what they think it is, orhow they want to perceive it.
But we have to take control oftelling that story. And
obviously, I've been living inrenting for close to 20 years
(21:46):
now. And I love Renton justgeographically it's so
convenient for sure. It's in thecenter of all of my restaurants,
which is why I was reallycheering for black rooster,
which is the previous restaurantbefore anchovies. And so to
succeed, he's like, I'm thereall the time. Just doing I'm
gonna eat here often. I'm gonnaI love the location. It's like
(22:09):
200 lineal feet of waterfront.
What can how can you possiblyget that anywhere? Yeah, pretty
much on Earth is like so. So I'mlike, wow, this is amazing. I
just couldn't wait for them toopen because I love eating
dumplings and taking my familyout on the weekends can I do so
(22:29):
me and my three kids and mywife, we always take the parents
out for them some or gamblingand is like, this is right in
the backyard. But obviously thepandemic hit them and they gave
up I think somewhere in 2000,2021
Michael Dugan (22:44):
Yeah, a lot.
Sadly, a lot of restaurants didour favorite place called Mogul
Palace was an Indian restaurantin Bellevue, Washington, I'll
tell you a Mogul Palace wasincredible. The service the
people the food, they just theyhad it in 22 years. And they
just said they couldn't doanymore.
Quyền Phan (23:03):
That's the saddest part about it. It's like the
positivity. It's like, peopleare rational. And it's like a
eulogy. Or most people onlyspeak up about how wonderful
someone is. When at a funeral.
The noise in today's world andespecially online as people love
to spread negativity, becausethat's that's how it's for lack
of a better analogy is likemisery loves company.
Michael Dugan (23:29):
You're so right.
It's so sad to because you havean amazing place. And I mean, I
have to just share this with youand our listeners. I remember
the day that my wife and I werein downtown Renton on the
waterfront, where yourrestaurant is located. We're
walking along, and we see thisopening Anchovies and Salt is
going to be opening andVietnamese cuisine. I was on
(23:52):
fire. I just I wanted to walk inthe door and you weren't even
open yet. It was the Coming Soonsign. And my wife and I like we
got to go there. And when wewalked in, I'm telling you the
experience there is soincredible. You feel like you're
in another world and you walk inand I gotta tell you because
you're feeling this negative andyou need to hear this positive.
(24:12):
Right? Have this experiencegoing into your restaurant is
not just going out to eat. It'shaving an experience in another
world in another culture. Andyou walk in and it's so
beautiful. It's so well laid outjust has this magic and passion
and positivity. I don't know howyou did it. I wanted to ask you
as another question is, how doyou find the people that are so
(24:35):
dedicated? It's tough to hiregood staff. Right. But your
staff is incredible. Likethey're so attentive, they're so
passionate about what they cando. And I spent 10 years in the
restaurant business so I knowthis. I'm not bullshitting you.
I'm like I can feel thehospitality when I walk in there
through the whole experience.
How did you do that?
Quyền Phan (24:56):
I think it's people always talk about creating the
culture itself Yeah, in say aworkplace for us is like we're
representing the true essence ofVietnamese. Yes, people, not
just the cuisine, right? BecauseI wanted people to be
transported to feel like theydidn't have to spend 10 $20,000
to go back home. Yeah, because Ithink the narrative in the
(25:18):
travel industry is that Vietnamis one of the most hospitable
country on Earth. And it's, andI have no doubt about it. But
the dynamic of our culture weunderstand fully well that it
doesn't pay to be grouchydoesn't pay to be obnoxious, or
we're extremely humble, becausewe know that we come from
(25:39):
extremely humble beginnings. Wehaven't even been freed for more
than 100 years, it was alwayssome type of oppression in our
country, that dynamic of beingable to join like the new world
in terms of the prosperity interms of economics. Why wouldn't
we be the most hospitablecountry on Earth? When we're
over here during my travel? I'mlike, wow, the Vietnamese
(26:02):
community and the food scenehere. It's so sad. Yeah.
Everything from food, to serviceto culture. I'm like, wow, I
went back to Vietnam when I was21 years old. And after 10
years, 11 years leaving, or 12,almost, I was just mind blown by
the food. Because, obviously, asan eel, we was eating farmers
(26:26):
food. And I, when I saw thesethings, I was just like,
What in the world? Why doesnobody give this to people? In
Seattle? In California? Yeah, Istarted traveling, and I
couldn't see it. I'm like, Oh,somebody's got to bring this to
(26:48):
Seattle, because Vietnamese foodis so so much more than it's
like, if I had to debatesomebody on what is the deepest
food culture in the world by amillion miles, right? We have
1000 years of Chinese influenceand colonization or oppression,
whatever you want to call it,right? 100 years of French
(27:11):
colonialism. Yeah. And thenthere was a long period of
Japanese influence there. Andthen we have the Vietnam War,
which the US influences it's allover Vietnam. And to this day,
US is Vietnamese Vietnam'snumber one trade partner, right?
Because there is such a greatmigration of Vietnamese to the
(27:31):
United States that our food likenowadays can be seen. A little
bit of everybody's culture iswithin our food, right? But we
have so much already at my byourselves. And that's why I
chose Anchovies and Salt isbecause it's the backbone of
everything we do in terms ofcooking. Yeah, it's this sauce.
(27:53):
Right? Sure. It's anchovy pastesauce.
These are the things that are sodeep and flavors in natural
umami, that the salinity and thedepth of our food if you started
out from like, from that and youstart mixing in all these great
fresh ingredients, there's somany things that just that I've
(28:15):
eaten all my life in terms ofenemies food. Yeah. And I'm
looking at on the culture thatI'm eating. I'm like, What
Japanese food is just sushi.
Ramen, grill food. I'm like,Man, I bet they don't sell a lot
of Japanese food in the UnitedStates. They should. They should
for sure. I'm sure it's a lotdeeper than that. But it is very
deep. Korean food is like, whatthey sell soups, and then they
(28:38):
sell barbecue. When I go out forAmerican food is like the state
that salad this French toast andbacon and eggs. This new
American when I start countingoff my fingers is like, oh,
shoot, I will probably need 10Hands in order to count on my
favorite Vietnamese dishes. Andthey all differentiate time in
other day, in terms of region interms of I'm like, holy smokes
(29:02):
30 up with 120 items on my menuat Anchovies And Salt.
Michael Dugan (29:09):
Did you really?
Oh my gosh,
Quyền Phan (29:12):
We didn't even scratch the surface yet. My
shelf was like, Well, the wordcrazy. Sack I know. But this is
not even half the things that Iwant. What do we do? So we need
to strategize is like well,we're not selling food to
people. We're selling a wholeculture, right? Well, I've lived
in different dynamic of ourculture, we will break in like
(29:35):
preconceived notion of whatVietnamese is or stigma that is
attached to Vietnamese food thatis, like things like cringe or
dirty or cheap or ditches. $3ban me is $5 Pho kind of idea,
right? Gotcha. I want toCalifornia one time 10 years
ago, and they had a place thatwas $2.99. Oh my god, man, this
(29:59):
is crazy. We went into thekitchen and we we started r&d
And all the dishes. And we justfelt okay, this one is going to
have to wait. We're going tohave to find a different way to,
to introduce this to people.
Gradually, we finally ended upwith a 60 items on the menu.
That still crazy ambitious,right? We cut the menu in half.
Yeah, we have three regions ofVietnam, we wanted to showcase
(30:21):
northern Vietnamese food,southern and central.
Michael Dugan (30:27):
One of our listeners asked it, are there
any influences of other cultureslike French or anything like
that in your cuisine?
Quyền Phan (30:36):
In Anchovies And Salt.? And so, in terms of this,
no would be I think the bestanswer. Okay. But let's say we
do a steak and eggs forbreakfast. Right? There is an
influence there. Of the baguettebe in French. Okay. Sure. The
steak and eggs is like, veryAmerican, right. But the way we
(30:59):
eaten it, I mean, like everyculture, eat eggs and every
culture eat some type of beef,right? We've taken all of this
1000 years of, I would say,culinary influence. It just made
it our own. A long, long timeago. Yeah. So I didn't put any
of that into the, the menu. It'swhat I grew up eating on it.
(31:20):
Let's make anchovy and saltfusion, or let's add something
in, we are actually trying to gobackward in time. Okay. I'm
trying to go back like 50 yearsin time to where when my mom is
growing up, and I want to beable to your mom, you know, like
Vietnamese moms and grandmas.
And I'm like, Hey, yes, you didyou remember eating this? When
(31:41):
you grow up? I curated thisrecipes based on your perception
of foods, not what's new, what'snot what's now the menu was
curated, so that I could getVietnamese moms to get out of
the house. Okay, right to startlining up two hours at a gym
someplace on Mother's Day. Yeah,right. Vietnamese moms would
often like I would say theywould not venture into a
(32:05):
Vietnamese restaurant. Okay.
Because they know themselvesthat this place doesn't really,
right. It's, that's what peopledo as a business is they're not
really selling a whole culture.
They're not selling realVietnamese food. And it's kind
of sad to think of it that way.
But if you're not gonna put thebest ingredients you can we
(32:26):
already have the ceiling interms of food.
Michael Dugan (32:30):
Who we got going on in the background is that
your daughter?
Quyền Phan (32:32):
It's my two year old son and my 10 year old son
playing a little bit. Oh my god.
You know what I mean, when Ifelt like Vietnamese food was
super underrepresented. Yes. Thefact that I've been here 30
years, and my mom has neverstepped foot into a Vietnamese
restaurant. Oh, wow. I couldn'tfind myself to bring her to one.
Because she would just fall shewould probably just chew me out.
(32:56):
Right? Why are we wasting moneyon this when there's obviously
there's no love put into thefood? Yeah, you couldn't put
love into the food if you wastrying to sell
and still make money off of it.
Thank you, sir.
Michael Dugan (00:12):
How are you doing today?
Quyền Phan (00:15):
I'm blessed. I'm blessed.
Michael Dugan (00:16):
You're blessed.
That's a beautiful thing to say.
I wanted to get started withwhat it was like growing up for
you. It's the first thing youremember cooking or eating as a
child. You'll remember a lot ofwork. Oh, work, okay.
Quyền Phan (00:31):
Like we grew up.
Humble. So we, we always workearly. I was cooking rice since
I was like, probably five, sixyears old.
Michael Dugan (00:44):
Oh my gosh. Okay.
And when you were doing that,were you working in restaurant?
Quyền Phan (00:49):
No, it was more like the homestyle. Okay, open fire
just cooking rice. Making surerice is ready when my parents
came home from work or came infrom the fields. Okay, don't
have high low temp. Back in thedays we will use a bamboo shoot
a bamboo stick. Oh, drill a holein it and use it like a flute so
(01:12):
I can blow air into the fire. Itwouldn't make the fire. The heat
rises or lower. You would lowerthe fire by spreading the call
out. You would increase the heatby blowing on it with a bamboo
pipe. Those are some funmemories. I remember just having
black circle or charcoalmustache.
Michael Dugan (01:30):
Oh my gosh. From the smoke.
Quyền Phan (01:33):
Yeah.
Michael Dugan (01:34):
Wow. Okay, were there any favorite things that
you'd like to eat as a kid?
Quyền Phan (01:39):
Again, we always pretty humble. Okay. Actually,
morning time was pretty good.
There would be a kind of like alocal lady that would walk by
the farm. Just like an ice creamtruck. Okay. And she would have
kind of like a sweet dessertbreakfast.
Ooh, soy milk. Okay.
It's almost like it's like asteamed rice cake. It looks like
(02:00):
a honeycomb. Okay. There'speople who've made it really
popular in the United Statesnow. And
Michael Dugan (02:06):
What is it called in the United States?
Quyền Phan (02:08):
Honeycomb cake,
Michael Dugan (02:09):
honey cupcake.
Okay. Yeah,
Quyền Phan (02:11):
I think that's that's one way to say it because
it looks exactly like ahoneycomb inside.
Michael Dugan (02:16):
I see. Is there a Vietnamese word for that one?
Bah, bah. Okay.
Quyền Phan (02:22):
It's translated into beef, beef cake, but let's get
none to do with beef. Oh,interesting.
Michael Dugan (02:27):
Okay, I see. So loosely translated into
beefcake.
Quyền Phan (02:31):
Yeah, I wouldn't call it that. It just more is
beef. So man is any type ofcake. So but I'm not sure why
that name came about.
Michael Dugan (02:41):
And so you grew up in Vietnam? Yes, sir. Okay.
And how long were you inVietnam.
Quyền Phan (02:47):
Untill I was nine, nine. Okay. And so then did you
move to the states? Did you movesomewhere else?
We migrated through animmigration process, okay. And
ended up in the Philippines forsat like at a kind of like an
educational refugee camp, okayto learn English to transition
for seven months. And then wecame to Washington.
Michael Dugan (03:10):
And oh, so you came to Washington. So like the
Renton area or a different partof Washington, Spokane,
Washington Spokane. Okay. I'vebeen to Spokane a few times. We
both live in Washington just forour listeners. So if you're
tuning in for the first time,Quyen, and I live in Washington
State, and he actually has anamazing restaurant called
(03:33):
Anchovies and Salt. That isliterally a few blocks from my
house. And I've been there threetimes. And his grand opening has
been the beginning of January,essentially, of 2024. So love
your food. And that's how we gotconnected. And that's how we're
having this conversation today.
So Quyen, when you were growingup, was there anything you
(03:55):
wanted to do? Like when you gotto the states? Did you have a
thought I want to do this. Like,I want to be a fireman. I want
to be a zookeeper. Those werethings that went through my mind
as a child, but
Quyền Phan (04:09):
I know I have big dreams. I want I wanted to be a
basketball player. Basketballplayer
Michael Dugan (04:14):
really? Okay.
Yeah. Well, how do you know whatposition you want to play?
Quyền Phan (04:19):
I played point guard.
Michael Dugan (04:20):
So you knew then.
Oh, wow. Okay, so did you watchbasketball in Spokane?
Quyền Phan (04:24):
I did. We played a lot of basketball on the
playground. Okay, I live nextdoor elementary school. So cool.
There was like a half a blockwalk. Okay. We spent all day on
the playground.
Michael Dugan (04:37):
I got it. Were you any good?
Quyền Phan (04:39):
I liked the think so not that good. It was fun.
Michael Dugan (04:42):
Of course.
Playing soccer at school. Andthe way we played soccer was
very different the way formalsoccer is so there's groups of
kids, right? So there's probably30 kids on one side and 30 kids
on the other and you throw theball in the middle and they try
to get the ball to the goal. Butthere's 30 Kids, there's no
positions, right? There's just agroup of people that move around
(05:05):
on the field. And that's how Istarted playing soccer as a kid.
were no rules. It was just kickthe ball and try to score,
right. That's amazing. Yeah, itwas a lot of fun. I always loved
to playing soccer.
When I grew up, I wanted to bean African game hunter. And
that's what I really wanted todo. And what I mean by that is I
wanted to go and rescue animals,in Africa and in different
(05:29):
places. And when we were kidsliving in Washington, I lived in
totem Lake outside of Kirkland,Washington. And I remember going
on these little adventures inthe woods and finding snakes and
frogs and salamanders and allkinds of animals, and we
collected them. And we actuallyhad a neighborhood Zoo. So
that's why I wanted to be anAfrican game hunter. I was
(05:51):
pretty young. And both my twobrothers and my sister, we kind
of put this suit togetherchildhood memories really
influenced you. So now you ownthis amazing restaurant, or you
launched this amazing restaurantcalled anchovies and salt. What
inspired you to open aVietnamese restaurant?
Quyền Phan (06:08):
For this one in particular is my seventh venture
I started in 2012 just a way tocreate jobs for family growing
up restaurant jobs was alwaysthe lowest hanging fruit for my
family members, my mom, mysisters who migrated to the
United States late, it was justcreating jobs, opportunities
(06:28):
because they came to the UnitedStates around 2008, 2009. Okay,
really hard times, right? We hada recession in 2009. And I
started my first one in 2012.
Wow, I have a background in inconstruction kind of started out
of the recession as well,because I needed to create jobs
for my brothers be in that theymigrated here late, they don't
(06:50):
have any English skills, justsomething for them to get their
foot in the door. So that wasworking for me for a few years,
until they could find somethingthat could give them health
insurance, young stability forthe family farm, creating jobs
for my brother in constructions.
I became I went to startbuilding out the first
(07:12):
restaurant for my sisters sawthe dynamic of the restaurant
industry and The Good, the Badand the Ugly kind idea. And just
always thought I'm like, we candefinitely do better than this.
Oh, definitely excel at least
Michael Dugan (07:27):
Walk us through a couple of the restaurants just
kind of some of the was thefirst restaurant Vietnamese.
Yes,
Quyền Phan (07:34):
I took over a place called a Renton Delhi. It was in
a in the strip mall Plaza, up inthe rent in Highland. Okay, a
hole in the wall, literally onthe side of a building, the
infrastructure was there. So itneeded just cosmetic. The
previous owners was strugglingreally bad. And they just want
it to walk. I rememberremodeling it in nine days. Oh,
(07:57):
my gosh, the city came two daysbecause they said I needed a
permit just to move someelectrical outlets. And that's
when you start to learn aboutrules and regulation. Luckily,
it was a super easy over thecounter permit just to move a
few outlets. I remember buyingthe restaurant on February 28th.
(08:17):
And opening on March 9.
Michael Dugan (08:19):
Oh my gosh.
That's quick.
Quyền Phan (08:21):
Yeah, no, gameplan No, nothing, just a we need to
open because we can't afford tojust pay rent and rabbits in
that. Yeah. And it was wet, verywell received, especially by the
Vietnamese community becausethey saw that we had authentic
food. So it was a follow up onme. And everything else. And I
(08:41):
quickly realized how hard thiswas in terms of trying to give
people such a big menu. Yeah,very much under appreciated
because the stigma of Vietnamesefood is that it's cheap. Nobody
wanted to pay more than $10 foranything, oh my God, no matter
how much love or how muchquality ingredients you put in
there, it was just this ceilingthat we kind of self imposed on
(09:05):
ourselves as a community in2012, which is only 10 years
ago. It was it's really hard toget anything to go above $10.
Wow, one of the saddest thing Iremember was that my competitors
and my neighbors, they lowertheir price the whole menu down
to 699.
Michael Dugan (09:22):
Because they were competing.
Quyền Phan (09:23):
Yeah, I was like, wow, this is the saddest thing.
How, how do they use do that tothemselves, just so that they
can kill the competition nextdoor? extremely sad.
Michael Dugan (09:36):
Yeah, I'm sorry.
That's, it's tough enough in therestaurant business. I mean, oh,
yeah. You've managed to succeed.
So what happened after that?
Quyền Phan (09:45):
I quickly realized that the business model wasn't
sustainable. It didn't makesense to have the sales number
but not the profit margins andputting in all the work, right.
I'm always naturally growing up.
Math is as always A strong suitin it my family. So Oh, wow. I
ran some numbers quickly. And Isaid, Oh man, let me do a quick
(10:05):
case study. And I looked up,what's the highest gross profit
margin in the industry? Andthat's when I learned the
chipotle model. Oh, okay.
McDonald's, I think they netlike 3%. Yeah. But you know,
they own all the real estate,right? Chipotle was like,
(10:27):
highest. They even as big asthey are, there was netting,
like around 11% at the time. Oh,wow. So as I said, Okay, so I
started Googling, searching tosee if there was any Vietnamese
restaurants that had thatconcept. Okay. And there wasn't
really any fast, casualVietnamese restaurant in the
(10:48):
country at that time that I knowof. So I basically followed the
chipotle way with Vietnamesefood. It turned out great. took
me four years to get anylandlord to trust me. So I
opened my first one in SouthLake Union 2016. It was called
Venus and now it's called Venusand sun of Vietnam is the
(11:11):
acronym. Beautiful. Anything inVietnam? That is, there's a lot
of names. That is Vina thisVina? Vina food Venus. So I just
thought Marina Sutton might bejust the only thing that I could
find that was not really a playon the word file.
Michael Dugan (11:30):
Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Something unique.
Quyền Phan (11:36):
Yeah. And it's something I needed to trademark
because I like, I'm a dreamer.
So I always wanted to, like,Okay, how do I scale? How do I
wrap a Vietnamese brand? How doI become like, Chipotle or Panda
Express kind of idea. So Itrademarked the name. I open
February 24 2016. I believe itwas crazy, because I have a
(11:58):
handshake lease with mylandlord. Oh, wow. I gave my
life savings to this dude. Yeah,to walk away that that owned it
previously. Because I love thatlocation. But the previous
owner, he didn't have any lease,but he knew he had Amazon all
around him. He knew he hadsomething good, so he wouldn't
let go of it. I see. Iapproached the landlord really
(12:21):
nice Turkish gentleman orschool. So he's like, Yeah, I
don't do leases. So I justlooked them into is it man, if I
pay you the rent, please don'tkick me out. And he's a
gentleman. So he's like, No, Iwork on a handshake. Oh my gosh,
if I shake your hand, I'm notgonna kick you out. That's
incredible. So I remember givena lot of money to the previous
(12:42):
owner and asking him to walk inhe did. It was instant success.
Because, wow. Amazon country wasgrowing 1016 Now, I'm located
right there on Westlake andDenny right next to Whole Foods.
Oh, that's incredible. Andhopefully that time that whole
food was the number one wholefood in America. Okay, just
(13:03):
floods of people walking towardsthat whole food plant. So
naturally, I'm very visible thatwe had this very fast, quick
concept. And it just did reallywell. We did well. So that was
my first location. And that was,it was in the middle of very
much urban neighborhood. Oh,that's perfect. Yeah. 2017 I saw
(13:23):
Amazon was growing and theybuilt our Amazon fulfillment
center. Now in Kent. And Ididn't know any better. I'm
like, what they gotta be like100 employees, no, like seven
800 employees and that giantwarehouse, they are going to
flip over to my restaurant toeat. So I open a second location
in Kent right next to the Amazonfulfillment center. Wow, that
(13:48):
worked out well. But to mysurprise, the clients were from
Amazon, because 30 minuteswasn't enough time for them to
leave.
Michael Dugan (14:00):
Oh, okay
Quyền Phan (14:01):
To come eat.
Michael Dugan (14:02):
Yeah, it's not close enough. But
Quyền Phan (14:03):
Luckily we did very well. Wow. So that was more like
an industrial restaurant.
Michael Dugan (14:09):
Yeah, that makes sense in Kent. Yep. Boeing
maybe. Yeah.
Quyền Phan (14:14):
And then but Boeing at that time they left. That's
right. When they, they all I wasright behind Boeing. So they
left that neighborhood in Kent.
Oh, okay. But luckily, we stilldid well, well enough for me to
test out. My my concept in asuburban area. I always told
myself if I if my concept cansurvive in urban, suburban and
(14:37):
industrial, then I havesomething that that would thrive
if I plan on scaling at founderall Mongolian grill in
Sammamish. That was shut downfor a long time.
Michael Dugan (14:51):
I might have gone to that Mongolian Grill.
Quyền Phan (14:54):
Yep, it's right there in the Saffron Plaza up
there. Yeah, I rememberSammamish doesn't have any
Vietnamese food. I rememberwalking into the city to get a
permit and it was a moment. Iwish I could record it. Okay,
when I submitted for permit, thewhole staff inside the city hall
came out and gave me a standingovation.
Michael Dugan (15:13):
Oh, that's amazing. Oh my gosh, you're
incredible. Wow. I'm reallyemotional right now. That is so
awesome.
Quyền Phan (15:20):
No, it was so fun.
Because there's like, man,they've never had Vietnamese
food. And this man was Highland.
Wow. It was fun times. So Ibuilt that in 2018. I feel one a
year with my constructionbackground. Landlord was
starting to believe in me andgiven me a little bit TI, but I
save quite a bit because I dideverything myself. It was me and
(15:44):
my team. Now it's 2018. It wentreally well. Obviously, by the
end of 2019. I was looking atexpanding to Kirkland urban, the
new Google Campus. Oh my gosh,yeah. Thinking that Google would
anchor this place. It's a mixeduse this building this apartment
is people. But there's alsoGoogle workers, right? They have
(16:07):
two three building there. Lookat that pandemic hit. And I have
such a great location that Isigned, knowing that it was a
pandemic, right. Yeah, butnobody, I couldn't foresee how
long it would last. So I signedearly 2020. We negotiated until
probably late 2020. Submit itfor permit, build out the
(16:29):
construction during the middleof COVID. A lot of issues
regarding supply chain andlogistics and all that. We were
still very blessed doing our ownthing. So we It wasn't really
too dependent on people.
Michael Dugan (16:42):
Oh my gosh,
Quyền Phan (16:43):
So I opened may 27 2021, three days on my son was
born your son. You know, my sonwas born on May 24. Yeah, I was
praying that he come out so thatI can grand open and not have
them be born in the middle.
Yeah. So we did that. That waswhen I would think it was still
50 50 50%, half open 75% open.
(17:07):
The pandemic was rough. So goingthrough all of that sales was
dropping like crazy, but then itpicked up because our model was
always met. Designed to be quickservice to go paperback. Okay,
yeah. So I did that. During allof this one of my friend called
me and he goes, Hey, there's alocation in Sodo, downtown
(17:28):
Seattle is really good location,and they walk in away because of
the pandemic. I'm alwayscurious. So I take a look at it.
I liked it a lot, shook handswith them, pending approval by
the landlord. We negotiatingwhat the terms would be. I saw
the terms going forward, whatlease they had, and the numbers
(17:51):
just didn't work out. Okay. Isaid I couldn't do it. So I
walked away from the deal. Andthey ended up walking away too,
because the numbers independentI was hitting them too hard.
Yeah. After the fact, the placewas vacant. The landlord reached
out to me and was like, Hey, canwe renegotiate the lease give
you a brand new lease. And thattime, I'm thinking okay, COVID
(18:12):
might be better now. Thingswould be better. And I got a
brand new restaurant. Oh mygosh, why? Because it's already
built out. Just needed. Somelike cosmetic work, and a good
deal by the landlord. I tookthat as well. And I opened that
November 9 2022. Basically fiverestaurants in five and a half
(18:37):
years.
Michael Dugan (18:37):
That's amazing.
Yeah.
Quyền Phan (18:39):
But you know, the it started off all really good. And
it's still like, a nice, I wouldsay streamline business model.
We got very lucky. Our model iskind of built for post pandemic
and India. I expected so muchmore a lot of moves were wrong.
Like the Amazon can't employeesnever came. Yeah. When I was in
(19:02):
Kirkland. Only 5% of Google'semployees probably back,
Michael Dugan (19:07):
right. Oh, because the pandemic?
Quyền Phan (19:09):
Yeah, they still not back. And when they do come back
once a week or twice a week,Google gives them food for free.
Right. So it was it's like howdo I compete with this when my
landlord gives the Employee Freefood? Yeah. And then there's no
employees coming in. And whenthey do come in, they get free
food. Okay. And it was the samething in in Soto because
(19:34):
Facebook is a matter of is inthe office is above the
building. Okay. And it's beenthree years, two years. I
haven't seen one Meta worker.
Michael Dugan (19:45):
Yeah, everybody pivoted to working from home.
Yeah, I mean, it's crazy.
Quyền Phan (19:51):
They come in, they would go into the elevator from
the garage, they go up and theywould go down and go home. Oh,
wow. It's like it's not asvibrant as I thought it would
be. Luckily, I mean, we'resurviving. I prefer to be
thriving. That's just the honesttruth of this business or the
restaurant world. Yeah,definitely put a lot more
content out there. Like, betterunderstand the story. The first
(20:14):
thing when people look at myconcept is this big corporate.
It looks too beautiful for it tobe Mom and Pop. Yeah, it's
likely watered down. It lookstoo much like a Chipotle. These
guys don't know what they'redoing. The pre conceived notion
of us being watered down,doesn't give people a fair
chance to really judge our food.
They don't understand that Icook my Pho for 24 hours, I cook
(20:37):
my chicken Pho with pastureraised free range and chicken. I
cooked my vegetable broth with100 pounds of really good
veggies. And we put so much loveinto the food. Oh, but people
will not see that.
Michael Dugan (20:56):
I saw it. My wife saw it. That's why we've been
back three times in less thantwo months.
Quyền Phan (21:01):
Yeah, that's really not anyone's fault. It's our job
of storytelling. We need to bethe one to really connect with
the community. And because I'vebeen working so hard, you know,
lucky my head down when, youknow, building six restaurants
in seven years, right? Yeah.
Yeah. It's insane, to say theleast. So I finally kind of
(21:23):
like, okay, let's take a deepbreath and start connecting with
people have to kind of let thecommunity know that the story is
not what they think it is, orhow they want to perceive it.
But we have to take control oftelling that story. And
obviously, I've been living inrenting for close to 20 years
(21:46):
now. And I love Renton justgeographically it's so
convenient for sure. It's in thecenter of all of my restaurants,
which is why I was reallycheering for black rooster,
which is the previous restaurantbefore anchovies. And so to
succeed, he's like, I'm thereall the time. Just doing I'm
gonna eat here often. I'm gonnaI love the location. It's like
(22:09):
200 lineal feet of waterfront.
What can how can you possiblyget that anywhere? Yeah, pretty
much on Earth is like so. So I'mlike, wow, this is amazing. I
just couldn't wait for them toopen because I love eating
dumplings and taking my familyout on the weekends can I do so
(22:29):
me and my three kids and mywife, we always take the parents
out for them some or gamblingand is like, this is right in
the backyard. But obviously thepandemic hit them and they gave
up I think somewhere in 2000,2021
Michael Dugan (22:44):
Yeah, a lot.
Sadly, a lot of restaurants didour favorite place called Mogul
Palace was an Indian restaurantin Bellevue, Washington, I'll
tell you a Mogul Palace wasincredible. The service the
people the food, they just theyhad it in 22 years. And they
just said they couldn't doanymore.
Quyền Phan (23:03):
That's the saddest part about it. It's like the
positivity. It's like, peopleare rational. And it's like a
eulogy. Or most people onlyspeak up about how wonderful
someone is. When at a funeral.
The noise in today's world andespecially online as people love
to spread negativity, becausethat's that's how it's for lack
of a better analogy is likemisery loves company.
Michael Dugan (23:29):
You're so right.
It's so sad to because you havean amazing place. And I mean, I
have to just share this with youand our listeners. I remember
the day that my wife and I werein downtown Renton on the
waterfront, where yourrestaurant is located. We're
walking along, and we see thisopening Anchovies and Salt is
going to be opening andVietnamese cuisine. I was on
(23:52):
fire. I just I wanted to walk inthe door and you weren't even
open yet. It was the Coming Soonsign. And my wife and I like we
got to go there. And when wewalked in, I'm telling you the
experience there is soincredible. You feel like you're
in another world and you walk inand I gotta tell you because
you're feeling this negative andyou need to hear this positive.
(24:12):
Right? Have this experiencegoing into your restaurant is
not just going out to eat. It'shaving an experience in another
world in another culture. Andyou walk in and it's so
beautiful. It's so well laid outjust has this magic and passion
and positivity. I don't know howyou did it. I wanted to ask you
as another question is, how doyou find the people that are so
(24:35):
dedicated? It's tough to hiregood staff. Right. But your
staff is incredible. Likethey're so attentive, they're so
passionate about what they cando. And I spent 10 years in the
restaurant business so I knowthis. I'm not bullshitting you.
I'm like I can feel thehospitality when I walk in there
through the whole experience.
How did you do that?
Quyền Phan (24:56):
I think it's people always talk about creating the
culture itself Yeah, in say aworkplace for us is like we're
representing the true essence ofVietnamese. Yes, people, not
just the cuisine, right? BecauseI wanted people to be
transported to feel like theydidn't have to spend 10 $20,000
to go back home. Yeah, because Ithink the narrative in the
(25:18):
travel industry is that Vietnamis one of the most hospitable
country on Earth. And it's, andI have no doubt about it. But
the dynamic of our culture weunderstand fully well that it
doesn't pay to be grouchydoesn't pay to be obnoxious, or
we're extremely humble, becausewe know that we come from
(25:39):
extremely humble beginnings. Wehaven't even been freed for more
than 100 years, it was alwayssome type of oppression in our
country, that dynamic of beingable to join like the new world
in terms of the prosperity interms of economics. Why wouldn't
we be the most hospitablecountry on Earth? When we're
over here during my travel? I'mlike, wow, the Vietnamese
(26:02):
community and the food scenehere. It's so sad. Yeah.
Everything from food, to serviceto culture. I'm like, wow, I
went back to Vietnam when I was21 years old. And after 10
years, 11 years leaving, or 12,almost, I was just mind blown by
the food. Because, obviously, asan eel, we was eating farmers
(26:26):
food. And I, when I saw thesethings, I was just like,
What in the world? Why doesnobody give this to people? In
Seattle? In California? Yeah, Istarted traveling, and I
couldn't see it. I'm like, Oh,somebody's got to bring this to
(26:48):
Seattle, because Vietnamese foodis so so much more than it's
like, if I had to debatesomebody on what is the deepest
food culture in the world by amillion miles, right? We have
1000 years of Chinese influenceand colonization or oppression,
whatever you want to call it,right? 100 years of French
(27:11):
colonialism. Yeah. And thenthere was a long period of
Japanese influence there. Andthen we have the Vietnam War,
which the US influences it's allover Vietnam. And to this day,
US is Vietnamese Vietnam'snumber one trade partner, right?
Because there is such a greatmigration of Vietnamese to the
(27:31):
United States that our food likenowadays can be seen. A little
bit of everybody's culture iswithin our food, right? But we
have so much already at my byourselves. And that's why I
chose Anchovies and Salt isbecause it's the backbone of
everything we do in terms ofcooking. Yeah, it's this sauce.
(27:53):
Right? Sure. It's anchovy pastesauce.
These are the things that are sodeep and flavors in natural
umami, that the salinity and thedepth of our food if you started
out from like, from that and youstart mixing in all these great
fresh ingredients, there's somany things that just that I've
(28:15):
eaten all my life in terms ofenemies food. Yeah. And I'm
looking at on the culture thatI'm eating. I'm like, What
Japanese food is just sushi.
Ramen, grill food. I'm like,Man, I bet they don't sell a lot
of Japanese food in the UnitedStates. They should. They should
for sure. I'm sure it's a lotdeeper than that. But it is very
deep. Korean food is like, whatthey sell soups, and then they
(28:38):
sell barbecue. When I go out forAmerican food is like the state
that salad this French toast andbacon and eggs. This new
American when I start countingoff my fingers is like, oh,
shoot, I will probably need 10Hands in order to count on my
favorite Vietnamese dishes. Andthey all differentiate time in
other day, in terms of region interms of I'm like, holy smokes
(29:02):
30 up with 120 items on my menuat Anchovies And Salt.
Michael Dugan (29:09):
Did you really?
Oh my gosh,
Quyền Phan (29:12):
We didn't even scratch the surface yet. My
shelf was like, Well, the wordcrazy. Sack I know. But this is
not even half the things that Iwant. What do we do? So we need
to strategize is like well,we're not selling food to
people. We're selling a wholeculture, right? Well, I've lived
in different dynamic of ourculture, we will break in like
(29:35):
preconceived notion of whatVietnamese is or stigma that is
attached to Vietnamese food thatis, like things like cringe or
dirty or cheap or ditches. $3ban me is $5 Pho kind of idea,
right? Gotcha. I want toCalifornia one time 10 years
ago, and they had a place thatwas $2.99. Oh my god, man, this
(29:59):
is crazy. We went into thekitchen and we we started r&d
And all the dishes. And we justfelt okay, this one is going to
have to wait. We're going tohave to find a different way to,
to introduce this to people.
Gradually, we finally ended upwith a 60 items on the menu.
That still crazy ambitious,right? We cut the menu in half.
Yeah, we have three regions ofVietnam, we wanted to showcase
(30:21):
northern Vietnamese food,southern and central.
Michael Dugan (30:27):
One of our listeners asked it, are there
any influences of other cultureslike French or anything like
that in your cuisine?
Quyền Phan (30:36):
In Anchovies And Salt.? And so, in terms of this,
no would be I think the bestanswer. Okay. But let's say we
do a steak and eggs forbreakfast. Right? There is an
influence there. Of the baguettebe in French. Okay. Sure. The
steak and eggs is like, veryAmerican, right. But the way we
(30:59):
eaten it, I mean, like everyculture, eat eggs and every
culture eat some type of beef,right? We've taken all of this
1000 years of, I would say,culinary influence. It just made
it our own. A long, long timeago. Yeah. So I didn't put any
of that into the, the menu. It'swhat I grew up eating on it.
(31:20):
Let's make anchovy and saltfusion, or let's add something
in, we are actually trying to gobackward in time. Okay. I'm
trying to go back like 50 yearsin time to where when my mom is
growing up, and I want to beable to your mom, you know, like
Vietnamese moms and grandmas.
And I'm like, Hey, yes, you didyou remember eating this? When
(31:41):
you grow up? I curated thisrecipes based on your perception
of foods, not what's new, what'snot what's now the menu was
curated, so that I could getVietnamese moms to get out of
the house. Okay, right to startlining up two hours at a gym
someplace on Mother's Day. Yeah,right. Vietnamese moms would
often like I would say theywould not venture into a
(32:05):
Vietnamese restaurant. Okay.
Because they know themselvesthat this place doesn't really,
right. It's, that's what peopledo as a business is they're not
really selling a whole culture.
They're not selling realVietnamese food. And it's kind
of sad to think of it that way.
But if you're not gonna put thebest ingredients you can we
(32:26):
already have the ceiling interms of food.
Michael Dugan (32:30):
Who we got going on in the background is that
your daughter?
Quyền Phan (32:32):
It's my two year old son and my 10 year old son
playing a little bit. Oh my god.
You know what I mean, when Ifelt like Vietnamese food was
super underrepresented. Yes. Thefact that I've been here 30
years, and my mom has neverstepped foot into a Vietnamese
restaurant. Oh, wow. I couldn'tfind myself to bring her to one.
Because she would just fall shewould probably just chew me out.
(32:56):
Right? Why are we wasting moneyon this when there's obviously
there's no love put into thefood? Yeah, you couldn't put
love into the food if you wastrying to sell
and still make money off of it.
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