May 11, 2025 • 33 mins
Kicking Off Season Four: Chef Ashley Brown's Culinary Journey
Season Four of Voice4Chefs kicks off with a special Mother's Day episode featuring Chef Ashley Brown from Colorado Springs. A chef and mother she shares her journey from a young culinary enthusiast to a chef de cuisine at Four by Celebrity chef Brother Luck. Ashley discusses her early influences, struggles, and achievements, including her success in culinary competitions and her connection with renowned chef Brother Luck. Stay tuned for part two, where Ashley delves deeper into her experiences on the TV show Chopped and her involvement with the MAPP organization.
00:00 Introduction and Dedication to Joanna James
00:43 Meet Chef Ashley Brown
01:54 Ashley's Early Inspirations and Challenges
04:28 The Journey to Becoming a Chef
06:46 Competitions and Signature Dishes
11:46 First Culinary Job and Early Career
16:45 Joining Seye Mountain Zoo
18:17 Impact of COVID-19 on the Culinary Industry
20:11 Coping with Job Loss and Transition
21:20 Becoming a Barista During the Pandemic
22:25 Rebuilding and Returning to Culinary Work
28:06 Meeting and Working with Brother Luck
30:34 Knife Fights and Culinary Competitions
32:01 Conclusion and Teaser for Part Two
Chef Ashley Brown
https://www.instagram.com/chef_browntown
Joanna James
https://linktr.ee/AFineLineMovie
https://www.instagram.com/mappimpact/
https://www.instagram.com/joannajamesfilms/
Season2
Welcome Chef Steven Leung as our new cohost.
IG: themindfulwok
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Michael Dugan (00:00):
Season four is kicking off today and
in honor of Mother's Day.
Today's episode of Voice4Chefs is dedicated to a
powerful voice in hospitality.
Joanna James as the producerof the award-winning
documentary, A Fine Line.
Joanna launched morethan just a film.
She sparked a movement.
Her work inspired the creationof map, a nonprofit committed to
(00:24):
providing advocacy, mentorship,and leadership opportunities
for women in hospitality.
We celebrate her vision,her strength, and the
countless women she uplifts.
Through her mission.
This one's for the mothersmentors and makers who lead
with heart and purpose.
Happy Mother's Day.
From local kitchens to thenational stage, chef Ashley
(00:46):
Brown has carved her ownpath through the heart of
Colorado's culinary scene.
As a mother and chef decuisine at four by celebrity
chef, Brother Luck, she'sredefining Southwest
flavors with bold creativityand unstoppable drive.
Today on Voice4Chefs,we sit down with Ashley
to hear her journey fromhometown roots to chop fame.
(01:09):
Ashley, welcome to the show.
From local kitchens to thenational stage, chef Ashley
Brown has carved her own paththrough the heart of Colorado's
(01:30):
culinary scene as the Chef decuisine at four by Brother Luck.
She's redefining Southwestflavors with bold creativity
and unstoppable drive.
Today on Voice for Chefs,we sit down with Ashley
to hear her journey fromhometown roots to chop fame.
Ashley, welcome to the show.
Chef Ashl (01:50):
Thanks for having me.
I'm really excited.
Michael Dugan (01:53):
Me too.
So why don't we start out alittle bit about getting to
know you and understandingyour, your struggles, your
journey to become a chef,and take us through where
did you get started andhow did you end up here?
Chef Ashley Brown (02:08):
Yeah.
I wanna be a, a chef at a veryyoung age, seven years old.
Kids
Michael Dugan (02:13):
Oh my gosh.
Seven.
Chef Ashley Brown (02:14):
Yeah, kids wanna be power rangers or
firemen, things like that.
and I, I found my nichejust at the drop of a dime,
and I never went back.
I never did anything else.
I have nothing under mybelt except for food.
So I obsessed over itmy entire life and I'm
(02:34):
still obsessing over it,
Michael Dugan (02:36):
That's awesome.
What about like at seven?
What kind of thingswere you thinking about?
I know it's impossible to thinkof a seven being seven, but,
Chef A (02:44):
Yeah, no, I had a thing.
I remember my teacher, shegave the, the class, like a,
a sheet of paper, oh, what doyou wanna be when you grow up?
And I remember at one pointI wrote down, a lifeguard.
Michael Dugan (02:56):
Oh
Chef Ashley Brown (02:56):
I dunno why, but a lifeguard,
I thought it was cool.
I loved the pool.
I was always at the poolwhen I was a kid, but that
was, that was the only thing.
But outside of that, I cannotthink of anything else that
I ever wanted to do outsideof, maybe a bounce back.
let's say culinarydidn't really work out.
It would be photography.
Michael Dugan (03:14):
Well, that makes a lot of sense.
Yeah, totally.
Chef Ashley Brown (03:17):
form in some way, shape or form.
art is really what I wantedto get into my family, like
my, my mom, my uncles, mysister, amazing artists.
Like they, their paintings,their drawing skills were
absolutely phenomenal.
And, art class was alwaystheir favorite and I loved to
see what, what all the thingsthat they did with their, with
(03:39):
their paintings and drawings.
It was always so beautiful.
I guess I chose cooking.
Michael Dugan (03:44):
Wow.
it's funny because Istudied to be a chef.
I never made it.
I never made it because Ileft because of a drive-by
shooting and the conditionsand, and just long hours.
And I was
Chef Ashley Brown (03:55):
Oh, yes.
Michael Dugan (03:56):
I just don't really want to do this anymore.
So it took a while for meto find myself, but that's
part of the reason I left.
But, for me, I love it.
I miss it.
And that's why a podcast, Imean, it's, it's just connecting
to you and, and learningthese stories and being able
to share these stories andcultivate these stories for
our listeners and, and peoplethat might be listening that
(04:18):
know you, and, and to beable to share your stories.
It's amazing to meto be connected back
to this community.
'cause I really miss it.
I absolutely miss it.
Tell us a little bit about,at seven you wanted to be
a chef, and then as you'regrowing up, how did it
lead to that direction?
Chef Ashley Brown (04:38):
I grew up in a really tiny town,
and like when I, I was sevenyears old, so I lived in
this town for nine years.
And, after having thisidea of wanting to become
a chef, my family, myteachers, they all knew it.
And that's all Iever talked about.
Those are the peoplethat believed in me.
(04:59):
That's what kind of shaped meto kind of be a people pleaser.
oh, you don't thinkI, I can do something.
I'm gonna show you I can do it.
And it was to showthem and not myself.
Michael Dugan (05:09):
Yeah.
Chef Ashley Brown (05:09):
So within the last three
years, I was literallyjust talking to a friend.
Earlier today, within the lastthree years, I just started
to realize how much I wanna dofor myself instead of others.
Michael Dugan (05:19):
Oh, I agree.
Chef Ashley Brown (05:20):
I'm been cooking professionally for
13 years and, after a whileyou start to value your time
and realize where you wannaput, all of your effort into,
Michael Dugan (05:31):
That's excellent.
Chef Ashley Brown (05:32):
gonna go to work, how much it is gonna go
to family, things like that.
Michael Dugan (05:35):
it's excellent advice.
I mean, I went through that too.
I've always been, I've beena people pleaser, my dad
was an alcoholic and, I wasbalancing that in my family
with, with my three siblings.
I learned really strong peopleskills, but I also got beat
up because of it, in therestaurant business that really
puts a drain on your mentalhealth until you figure it out.
(05:57):
Right.
And a lot of peoplefigured it out.
You figured it out, obviously.
I mean, I can hear it from theconversation we had before this
and now, as we're moving along,take us through kind of some of
the places that you worked andwere you always in Colorado?
Did I get that right?
Or did you movearound the country?
Chef Ashley Brown (06:15):
As far as working, yes, Colorado.
so I went to high schoolhere in Colorado Springs,
at Mesa Ridge, and theyhad a program called AVP.
And that program allowed me toget some college credit at the
community college here in town.
At the time, it was PikesPeak Community College.
(06:36):
They just recently changedto Pikes Peak State College.
so my senior year I didclasses at the culinary,
community college.
So I did that for my senioryear, and I did a competition,
for FCCLA and I won first place.
It was the firstthing I ever won.
Michael Dugan (06:55):
Wow.
Chef Ashley Brown (06:56):
it was, it was the craziest thing.
Like we, there was so manydifferent, parts of it.
There was garde manger, therewas knife skills, there was
baking, there was candy.
what I did, what was it?
the name of it was, gourmet.
Gourmet one, gourmetTwo and Gourmet three.
Michael Dugan (07:14):
Oh wow.
Chef Ashley Brown (07:14):
one I did, but me and my chef at
the time, we were practicingthis one dish that him
and I created for months.
So I always had that one dishfor, for lunch every single day.
And I mean, you couldn'tgo wrong with it.
It was a surfing turf.
Michael Dugan (07:28):
I've heard that in reading and research.
You are known for surf and turf.
Oh my gosh.
Chef Ashley Brown (07:34):
Yeah, so it was a filet mignon with shrimp
and this pan sauce that Icreated, that had some spiciness
in there, some acidity, justa whole umami of flavor.
And I
Michael Dugan (07:45):
Oh, I love it.
Chef Ashley Brown (07:46):
Competition was in Denver at Johnson Wales.
Everyone's doing alltheir stuff and I was the
last one to, to compete.
All the other subjectswere already done.
Everybody was hanging out.
So it was in the way back part.
And I remember everyone elsewho competed with all the other,
competitions, with the knifeskills and things like that.
There are windowseveryone could look into.
(08:08):
But I was the last one wayat the end of this hallway.
And everyone, including my,chef was trying to look into the
window, like, how is she doing?
Michael Dugan (08:17):
Oh, I love
Chef Ashley Brown (08:18):
of the judges were like, get
outta here, get outta here.
You can't come and watch.
Michael Dug (08:21):
Don't distract her.
Yeah.
Chef Ashley Brown (08:24):
So then finally we were done and I
competed against one other guy.
It was me and one other,guy that was in, that was
competing against in this one.
Finally, they hauled everyoneinto the auditorium and
they're putting down all the,winners from, runner ups to
gold, silver, and bronze.
(08:44):
And then I'm just thinkingto myself, my head's
down this entire time.
I was like, I don't got it.
I didn't get it.
And then finally theylisted like who was the
second place, and it wasone of 'em from, gourmet.
And then one of my studentsright next to me were
just kind of like, Ashley,you won first place?
And they called my name, firstplace of, gourmet Ashley Brown.
I was like, oh my god!.
Michael Dugan (09:05):
Yeah.
That's awesome.
Chef Ashley Brown (09:07):
I ever want.
It was insane.
And I ended up, at thetime it was, everyone's
got a signature dish.
I ended up kind of making thatas my signature dish, I suppose.
Michael Dugan (09:16):
Even today I've read about it and I'm like, wow.
Chef Ashley Brown (09:19):
I've, I've served it in many different
ways at, Four and at the zoowhere I worked at as well.
that's kind of one thing thatwe'll do every now and again, is
take old recipes and then finddifferent ways to revamp it.
It's really fun to do.
Michael Dugan (09:32):
Oh, that's really cool.
So you like competition.
Chef Ashley (09:36):
I do, I really do.
In a strange way.
it's something thatreally just dawned on me
just last week actually.
Michael Dugan (09:42):
Oh, wow.
Chef Ashley Brown (09:43):
I don't compete to beat other chefs.
Michael Dugan (09:47):
Yeah, I get it.
Chef Ashley Brown (09:47):
I compete to beat myself.
I want to see whatI'm capable of.
I want to see.
How I can push away allthe fears that I have and
all the doubt that I have,and I wanna beat those
awful negative thoughts.
And so that's why I compete,
Michael Dugan (10:06):
You're inspiring so many people
that are gonna listen.
I'm telling you right now.
I mean, I thinkthat's how you win.
I mean, that, I really thinkonce you can mature enough
and say it's not, you're notcomparing yourself, you're
stepping it up and you'recompeting with yourself.
Chef Ashley Brown (10:21):
You are your worst critic,
Michael Dugan (10:23):
Oh, yeah.
The self-talk.
Chef Ashley Brown (10:26):
yeah.
And that's
Michael Dugan (10:27):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Chef Ashley Brown (10:27):
always be your worst critic and
you're always gonna be inyour head no matter what.
So, and it is just likethose, those at the top
are collaborating and theones at the bottom are
competing against each other.
And I that I've never hadthe competitive personality.
I am.
Competing against myself.
Like you say, I wannasee what I'm capable of.
(10:49):
I wanna push myself,and see what I can do.
where, where's my mind gonnago with this crazy three
step, three random ingredientthing, what can I do with it,
Michael Dugan (11:02):
So tell me about surfing turf.
what was, what was the surf?
I know what the turfwas, but what was surf?
Chef Ashle (11:08):
The surf was shrimp.
Michael Dugan (11:09):
Oh, okay.
Chef Ashley Brown (11:10):
Yeah.
It was big old shrimp.
The biggest
Michael Dugan (11:12):
I love big old shrimp.
Chef Ashley Brown (11:13):
Yeah.
It was, it was,there were U Tens.
Michael Dugan (11:16):
Oh, nice.
Chef Ashley Brown (11:17):
Meaning just barely in culinary
school and you only see alittle tiny dried up ones
that you'd see at the store.
Michael Dugan (11:24):
And we should explain that too.
U 10 means 10 to a pound,
Chef Ashley Brown (11:27):
Mm-hmm.
Michael Dugan (11:28):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that meansthey're pretty big.
Chef Ashley Brown (11:30):
Big boys.
Yeah.
Michael Dugan (11:31):
It's like a lobster tail almost.
so tell us more about soyou went and you competed,
and then when did you gointo the world of cooking?
Like start in differentrestaurants and can
you tell us a couple ofthem that you worked at?
Chef Ashley Brown (11:46):
It was right after I graduated.
Soon as I graduated highschool, I went to Denver
'cause I got accepted tothe Art Institute in Denver.
So while I was attendingculinary school up there, I
was trying to find work andI, I didn't take any break.
(12:07):
I took a month from graduatingto moving to Denver,
starting culinary school.
I only took just June.
So I started working in July.
So when I first went in there,just trying to find myself,
never been on my own before.
I'm in a big city and.
(12:27):
I'm just doing what anyyoung adult would coming
into their adult life.
So then I started totake responsibility.
I was like, okay, letme start finding a job.
Now that I know what myschedule's let's start coming
up with a, with a system.
And conveniently across thestreet from my dorms was this
cute little Italian restaurant.
(12:47):
I don't remember the name ofit, but I ate it a couple times.
'cause it was, itwas right there.
And so I was like,you know what?
Why not are you guys hiring?
So I put in for, an applicationand did the interview
and they're like, oh, doyou have any, experience?
I was like, no, I'mjust in culinary school,
but this is my passion.
I want to do this forthe rest of my life.
(13:08):
They're like, I don't knowif you can handle that.
maybe we start you off atthe bar, or maybe a hostess.
I'm like, anyonestarts anywhere, so I
guess let's try this.
And so we we're donewith the interview.
And I, I have thejob to be a hostess.
And later on that night, mindyou, I haven't even started yet.
(13:29):
And later on that night,they called me and they're
like, yeah, no, we're good.
Michael Dugan (13:33):
Okay.
Chef Ashley Brown (13:34):
wait, like you don't, you don't need me.
what do you mean?
They're like, yeah,we, we don't need you.
We're good.
I was like, oh, well thanks.
Okay.
So then, a couple dayspasses and I'm just roaming
around, downtown in Denver.
I'm just kind of startinga little bit of my
portfolio for photography.
And my mom got me a camerafor my graduation gift.
And so I've just taken somecool pictures of all the
(13:55):
skyscrapers, some of theparks that are downtown.
And I come across, this littlecafe called Rendezvous Cafe,
and it's in, the HistoryColorado Center Museum right
there downtown on Lincoln.
And I go in there and I waslike, I just wanna know if
I, if you guys are hiring,if I can get an application.
They're like, yeah, I thinkour culinary's hiring.
(14:18):
And so the woman that wasworking front of house
asked our gm, he comes out,gives me the application
to fill out, I fill it out,bring it in the next day.
Michael Dugan (14:28):
yeah.
Chef Ashley Brown (14:28):
And so he, we sit down and we do an interview
with the GM and then the chef.
And I don't know what theysaw in me, knowing that I
had no experience still.
they hired me on the spot.
I was like, I am so lucky.
What did I do to, to get this?
And I, and I told them, I waslike, did I really get this?
(14:51):
'cause I was just toldthis a couple days ago,
You signed all the papers.
your, your W2, your or yourW four, things like that.
I was like, yeah.
I was like, well, I'm justmaking sure 'cause I didn't
wanna get my hopes up, Andthey're like, yeah, no, you got
the job, can you start this day?
And then it's juststarted from there.
And I was on the culinary team.
So this company, they're nowcalled SSA group, but at the
(15:14):
time they were called KMSSA,KM stands for Kevin McNicholas.
He was the founderof the company.
And so it was KM Concessions.
They partner with,museums, aquariums,
Michael Dugan (15:26):
Oh, cool.
Chef Ashley Brown (15:28):
things like that, all throughout
the entire nation.
They have so many locations andthe company was just fantastic.
They, took really goodcare of, of the people
Michael Dugan (15:36):
good.
Chef Ashley Brown (15:37):
That showed a lot of dedication
for the most part.
so while I was at that location,so just in Denver, they have
Denver Zoo and they haveNational Western Stock Show.
They used to, they now nolonger have, the museum,
the Colorado Museum.
They're no longer partneredtogether, but they still
have those two locations.
(15:58):
And here in Colorado Springs,they have Cheyenne Mountain
Zoo and, the Olympic Museum.
Michael Dugan (16:04):
Okay.
Chef Ashley Brown (16:04):
So my sister, she got sick
Michael Dugan (16:08):
Hmm.
Chef Ashley Brown (16:09):
again.
She, she went throughkidney failure.
So my mom, she's taken careof her and I didn't wanna
be away, an hour away.
And I wanted to, to make surethat my mom's got support.
My sister has support.
So I came back toColorado Springs.
So I left Denver, came backhere, and I transferred to
Seye Mountain Zoo, whichis with the same company,
SSA I did work hard.
I did work hard some ways.
(16:30):
I do feel like I was lucky,but other times some people
will say I was lucky, but no,I, I worked hard for that,
Michael Dugan (16:37):
Well, you wanted to be a chef at seven.
Chef Ashley Brown (16:38):
yeah,
Michael Dugan (16:39):
there's a lot to that in the drive, right?
Chef Ashley Brown (16:42):
you do all the research you possibly can,
I transferred to Seye MountainZoo and I was with them for
about eight years and movedup to, to be sous chef,
handling all the caterings andall the, the food locations
that they have over there.
opened up the barbecue joint,the pizza joint, It was amazing.
And the people that thatwere there were fantastic.
(17:02):
And some of them ended upbecoming like family and
Michael Dugan (17:06):
love it.
Chef Ashley Brown (17:07):
Just doing all these other
events and helping outall the other locations.
I always loved it.
sometimes you're never justin the same four walls.
That's probably my favoritepart was going to all the
other locations that SSA hadand helping and creating these
relationships with all the otherchefs that were in the company.
And it was just so fun, And, itwas an open kitchen concept too.
The chefs, they took theguest orders, they cooked
(17:30):
it, and they served it.
So you get a lot of peopleskills and you created a lot
of relationships with it somuch that at one point, I
ended up being nominated foran award with the company
for, best guest service.
Michael Dugan (17:44):
Awesome.
Chef Ashley Brown (17:45):
It was great.
It was the last yearthat I was there.
It was very bittersweet because,they acknowledged me for that.
but you know, it wasn't toolong after that that covid hit
and then that's when I left.
Michael Dugan (17:57):
Oh, really?
So we're talking justa couple years ago.
Okay.
Wow.
Yeah.
2020. Yeah.
Yeah.
Chef Ashley Brown (18:04):
and I got that award just
at the end of 2019.
I still have that plaque too.
it's just, it's a littlesymbol of, who grew me, who,
who built me from the dirt,and that, that company did.
Michael Dugan (18:17):
And, one of the questions I had too is what
happened at Covid, becausethere's a lot of stories that
people have, and I started thepodcast to honor chefs during
Covid because I just thoughtpeople work so hard in this
industry and they need to beput on a pedestal in my mind,
because it, it wasn't fair.
Like I had a secure job.
And then I thought about peoplethat were friends of mine in the
(18:38):
business and I'm going, oh mygosh, that is just not right.
Shutting all restaurantsdown and our governor
shut down all restaurants.
I looked around theworld and it's like
everywhere is shutdown.
Chef Ashley Bro (18:49):
It just a halt.
Michael Dugan (18:51):
And so how did you cope?
What happened?
Chef Ashley Bro (18:55):
I lost my shit.
Michael Dugan (18:57):
Yeah.
I believe it.
Chef Ashley (18:58):
So we got notified.
So I actually, so just kindof when the, the week that
covid hit, a week prior, Idid an event at Brother Lux.
Mind you, I still, I'mstill an employee with SSA
at the Zoo, brother Luck.
He does these, collaborationswith other top chefs.
(19:21):
This one was with Tanya Halden.
He invited, my chef Bo Greento come and cook in his
restaurant, give this amazingexperience to the guests.
So after it wasjust maybe a week.
A couple days afterwe get notified.
'cause I remember we broughtTanya Hall into the zoo
so she can experience it.
(19:41):
And it was freezing out, itwas snowy, but I wanted to give
her an experience, show her alittle bit of Colorado Springs.
And I remember just everyone'son the radio like, answer your
phones, answer your phones.
So we had carryradios at the zoo.
it's a huge place.
So you need some wayto communicate, okay,
answer your phones.
Places are shutting down.
(20:01):
And we're like, what?
What are we gonna do?
Okay, this is whatwe're gonna do.
We're just trying to figureout, okay, what is going on?
Michael Dugan (20:08):
Yeah.
Chef Ashley Brown (20:09):
What do you mean we're shutting down?
And so the next day everythingshut down, everybody go home.
And be prepared.
I don't know what's gonnahappen, but be prepared.
And then, so I just, I criedand I cried and I was like,
I've given so much to thisplace, and what are we gonna do?
what am what's gonnahappen to my family?
(20:30):
much like everybody elsehad the same questions
and, it happens, everyonefrom SSA is, is laid off.
I'm sorry, but we're trying tofigure all this out together.
And it, it was, it wasjust a whole switch.
It was just so sudden, firstit, COVID was just a whole
joke and then all of a suddenit was just, oh, no job.
(20:54):
I. So it was crazy.
And then, so, everybodygoes on unemployment like,
oh yeah, you're okay.
And then finally I get acall like, okay, well we
wanna bring those who aredetrimental to the zoo.
and SSA, maybe it's not,you SSA can't hire you
back, but maybe the zoo.
We have a coffeespot over there.
So it was, do you wannacome and make coffee
(21:16):
for all the zookeepers?
absolutely anything, I'lldo anything to come back.
And so, I became a baristafor Covid, still at the zoo.
And the, the coffee shopwas called Cozy Goat.
And so just any anyonethat wanted to, to,
there was a window.
So any of the zookeepers thatwanted to come, they can line up
(21:36):
right out front of the window.
'cause no one canbe inside together.
Or I could make 'em, and thenI would run 'em to any of the
departments around the zoo.
So I would just makecoffee for a couple months.
And I just remember sittingout there, so this zoo
overlooks Colorado Springs.
It's on a mountain.
So I remember just sittingthere, no one's making
any calls, and I'm justlooking at the city and
(21:57):
I just become emotional.
And I'm just kind oflike, imagine this is the
world that we live in now.
everything's just a halt now.
I'm a freaking barista.
Michael Dugan (22:06):
No, I get
Chef Ashley Brown (22:07):
And it was just like I became emotional and
I was telling my other friendsdoing the same thing, they hired
some of the other employees backto, we would swap out days of
being baristas with each otherand like what are we doing?
And so that's when,at that point.
what, what can Ido for my family?
what's, what's the next steps?
And finally they slowly startedto bring back, all of the, the
(22:28):
chefs and, more of the, thefood and beverage employees.
And my head chef, BoGreen, he was always there.
Thank God they didn'tlay him off at the time.
So he's just trying to, he wentthrough all the coolers and
donated as much as he possibly
Michael Dugan (22:44):
That's what a lot of places
Chef Ashley Brown (22:46):
Yeah.
A lot of the, the soupkitchens and things like that.
And,
Michael Dugan (22:49):
it to the employees.
if you're laying peopleoff and they're struggling,
give them, give them the
Chef Ashley Brown (22:54):
I had so much food in my
pantry, he was insane.
I'm like, what am I gonna dowith 25 pounds of risotto?
Michael Dugan (22:58):
I know.
I know.
Chef Ashley Brown (23:01):
It was all a beautiful thing
though, to see everyone stillcome together in some way.
But, and I remember hewould come in, he would.
Make lunch for some of thestaff members, the limited
staff members that were there.
And he would send me a picturelike, oh, I got tacos here
today if you wanna comeover and eat some tacos.
So, we would just talkthrough some things and then
slowly we started to okay,this is what we're gonna do.
(23:23):
We're gonna bring back allthe cooks and all the food
and beverage, at least most of'em, and then we're gonna make
lunch for all the zookeepers,no longer just coffee.
Let's do, grab and go, okay,we're gonna make all these
sandwiches, all these sides,things like that, to where
they can come in quick,grab and go stay out of the
locations as much as possible.
25 people at a time, thewhole, the whole nine.
(23:45):
So then after that, thingsstarted to slowly build back up.
We opened our doors likeeverybody else, and it's
kind of, a little bitof history from there.
it was a pain in theass wearing the masks
Michael Dugan (23:56):
Oh, I know when you wear glasses, my
wife doesn't wear glasses.
She doesn't understandwhen it fogs up.
It is the most frustrating.
You gotta do it, butit's so frustrating.
Try driving like that.
Or, working in the kitchenwith a mask and it's, and the
Chef A (24:12):
steamy, it's smoky, ugh.
Michael Dugan (24:14):
I, I just felt for the people and
that's why I started thepodcast four years ago.
I just, I woke up one day andI'm like, chefs need a voice.
It's just, that's it.
It's that simple.
And that's why I waswondering about your
experience with the Pandemic.
'cause it sounds verysimilar to other people
Chef Ashley Brown (24:30):
of course.
I, I think everybodyhad the same,
Michael Dugan (24:34):
Yeah.
Chef Ashle (24:34):
the same experience.
this, the entireworld stops and then
Michael Dugan (24:37):
Right.
Chef Ashley Brown (24:38):
wait, what are you gonna do?
Michael Dugan (24:40):
Yeah.
And, and, it just, it reallychanged everyone, right?
And then the food costwent up and so then people
start complaining abouthow expensive food is.
But it's hey.
Restaurant has to survive.
They have to dealwith all these things
Chef Ashley Brown (24:56):
Yeah, now you're getting to go boxes
and to go cups, and then nowyou're charging for deliveries
Michael Dugan (25:01):
Right, But like here, seafood has skyrocketed.
I mean, king Crab, which Ilove and I'm addicted to, is
about 70 a pound, I think.
Something like that.
And it's in Alaska, whichis down the road, literally.
Dungeons Crab locallycan be 50 for crab meat.
It's 50 a pound forregular Dungeons Crab.
(25:23):
It can get up to 20a pound with Shell.
Right.
And that's just crazy.
Like I used to get it for 3 99
Chef Ashley Bro (25:29):
yeah, I'm sure.
And
Michael Dugan (25:31):
I mean, it's like almost lobster is
almost cheaper and it's allthe way across the country,
Chef Ashley Brown (25:36):
I know.
How bad do I want this?
Michael Dugan (25:37):
Right, right.
Chef Ashley Brown (25:39):
you so much.
Come back.
Michael Dugan (25:40):
I know, and I'm addicted to seafood.
My friend chef Mimi thatI was telling you about,
she's the one that reallyhelped me get this podcast
out there, from Clubhousethat I talk about a lot.
But she says, Mike, you'readdicted to seafood.
'cause I, all I ever dois talk about seafood,
Chef Ashley Brown (25:56):
Hmm.
Nothing wrong with that.
Michael Dugan (25:57):
It's expensive now, and it's really expensive
and it's almost like a drug.
It's really, really expensive.
But I understand, there'sreasons behind it, and I'm not
upset with anyone about it.
It's just, it's just a factand you just have to accept
it if you're going to eat it.
As we move on, so you're atthe zoo, which is amazing.
(26:18):
I was a volunteer at Aquariumfor a long time, actually.
Absolutely loved the culture.
But what'd you do from the zoo?
Where did you move from there?
Chef Ashley Brown (26:26):
So after that, I started to
realize like how bored Iwas, nothing was going on
and it's no one's fault.
Michael Dugan (26:33):
Right.
Chef Ashley Brown (26:34):
We couldn't get any caterings.
'cause still limitedpeople in the buildings.
And, so I asked mychef again, Bo Green.
I was like, I am bored.
And he goes, he sees thesethings in me that he goes,
he knows something's wrongbefore I even tell him.
He, he always called it,my gears are turning.
He goes, I see your gearsare turning, what's going on?
(26:54):
And I told him, I was like, I'mbored, And I was like, what?
What can we do?
He goes, I can't giveyou anything right
now, and I'm so sorry.
Maybe I can ask around, see ifanyone's willing to have you in
their kitchen for a couple days.
I'm like, yeah, sure.
But there's not very manypeople that I want to work with,
outside of you and, and brother,I've always wanted to work him,
Michael Dugan (27:15):
Yeah.
Chef Ashley Brown (27:15):
I couldn't think of anywhere else I would
feel comfortable in, And so.
I was kinda like, okay, butwhatever comes, whatever comes.
And so he reached out tobrother and I had no idea.
Him and brother were talking,brother put an ad on his
Facebook saying that he waslooking for a sous chef.
'cause his sous chef, she wantedto do exactly what I was doing.
(27:38):
She wanted a little bit ofa change, and she ended up
opening a beautiful restaurant,helping open a beautiful
restaurant here in town.
so I was essentiallygonna replace her.
Michael Dugan (27:49):
Mm-hmm.
Chef Ashley Brown (27:50):
So I, I tell Bo and I was like, brother's
looking for a sous chef?
He goes, are you gonna do it?
And I was like, I, I wantto, but I don't know.
I am not qualified to besous chef for brother.
Freaking luck.
Michael Dugan (28:04):
Yeah.
Chef Ashley Brown (28:04):
This man.
Michael Dugan (28:06):
You have to explain who he is because I know
a little bit about him, and I'mamazed because I'm connected to
Jensen Cummings, who I think hasthe most amazing podcast in the
entire world and has inspired meto keep going many, many times.
And I saw him connect withBrother Luck, and I learned
about him through him.
So when we had that connection,I was like, oh my gosh, brother.
(28:29):
wow, And, and it just, andAshley, and it's like all
this, this, these connectionsin Colorado just got me really
excited when I saw all this.
I was like, wow.
And it just happened like africking ton, a tornado for me.
But nobody that's listening,unless they're in Colorado,
is gonna know who he is.
(28:49):
Can you tell us about him andwho, who he is and what he
did with you, and just kind oftalk a little bit about that.
Chef Ashley Brown (28:56):
So Brother Luck, he is a local celebrity
here in Colorado Springs.
he's been on Beat BobbyFlay, which he beat.
Yes, we love it.
Michael Dugan (29:06):
He beat him.
Chef Ashley Brown (29:07):
he beat
Michael Dugan (29:08):
He, whoa.
That's incredible.
I've had people thathave competed with
him but not beat him.
That's awesome.
Chef Ashley Brown (29:14):
beat Bobby Flay and pulled
pork in 45 minutes.
Michael Dugan (29:19):
I love it.
Chef Ashley Brown (29:21):
Yeah.
So he beat Bobby Flay andhe was on Top Chef twice
and he was on chopped.
Michael Dugan (29:26):
Okay.
Sure, sure.
Oh, that's
Chef Ashley Brown (29:28):
Outside of that, he's ran a couple
of resorts here in town.
He's established hisown, his own brand.
He's, he's an advocatefor culinary students.
He's an advocatefor mental health.
Michael Dugan (29:40):
I love it.
Chef Ashley Bro (29:41):
a great mentor.
He is a fantastic mentorand the way that he thinks
about things and all thesephilosophies that he has,
Michael Dugan (29:48):
I can tell he is very philosophical 'cause
I've heard some things and,
Chef Ashley Brown (29:52):
The way that his mind works is, is crazy.
But
Michael Dugan (29:56):
That's incedible
Chef Ashley Brown (29:57):
his connection to Colorado
Springs and what he doesfor Colorado Springs, it's
not just for his brand.
It's, what, what's he doing forother, for other restaurants and
schools and things like that.
like we get
Michael Dugan (30:09):
Oh, I love it.
Chef Ashley Brown (30:10):
high school students, we'll get
in, there's some culinaryprograms that we'll get in their
students and we teach them.
Brothers always taught them,he does cooking classes.
Like this man is a jackof all trades and a master
to damn near all of 'em,
Michael Dugan (30:24):
Oh wow.
Wow.
Chef Ashley Brown (30:27):
it's, yeah, he's a great person
to work for and he is
Michael Dugan (30:31):
Cool.
Chef Ashley Brown (30:31):
got, he's given me so many opportunities
just working with him.
So I first discovered Brother,the first year that I came
back to Colorado Springs,working for Shy Mountain Zoo.
I. My chef and himused to work together.
He used to be his souschef, Nate Berger.
he was my chef when Icame to Colorado Springs.
So he goes, you know what?
I have, I got a chef.
(30:51):
He does these thingcalled, knife fights.
I was like, okay,well what's that?
So these knife fights brotherwould host at his restaurant.
Michael Dugan (30:59):
saw you on that talking about it, so
I was wondering about that.
So I really wanna know, I'dlove to hear about this.
This is awesome.
Chef Ashley Brown (31:07):
knife fight and it was like my
only, my second year of beinglike in the culinary world.
Michael Dugan (31:12):
Wow.
Chef Ashley Brown (31:12):
And he goes, I'll partner you up with
someone who was of your level,
Michael Dugan (31:16):
Wow.
Chef Ashley (31:17):
go to Brother Luck.
Michael Dugan (31:19):
Awesome.
Chef Ashley Brown (31:20):
He told him like, Hey, I
got these two candidates.
Let's schedule this.
And so went to hisrestaurant and it was almost
like Chopped gives you afew, mystery ingredients
and a certain time and.
You just fight, fromthere, what can you, what
can you get out of this?
These three ingredients?
But I think it wastwo at the time.
(31:40):
It was all I
Michael Dugan (31:41):
Oh my gosh.
Chef Ashl (31:42):
Skinless duck breast.
I never let him live this down.
Skinless duck,breast and fennel.
Now duck, you need a lot of fat.
Michael Dugan (31:51):
And it's skinless, right?
Oh my God.
Chef Ashley Brown (31:55):
The competition started
the container of baconfat went missing.
where did this thing go?
Michael Dugan (32:01):
In part two, chef Ashley Brown shares her journey
from local cooking competitionsto working with renowned chef,
celebrity chef, brother Luck.
She recounts her intenseand emotional experience on
the TV show chop where shefaced rigorous challenges
and unexpected setbacks.
She values the growthand connections made her
story leads into a deeperexploration of her culinary
(32:23):
adventures and involvementwith the MAP organization.
Stay tuned for part two.
Season four is kicking off today and
in honor of Mother's Day.
Today's episode of Voice4Chefs is dedicated to a
powerful voice in hospitality.
Joanna James as the producerof the award-winning
documentary, A Fine Line.
Joanna launched morethan just a film.
She sparked a movement.
Her work inspired the creationof map, a nonprofit committed to
(00:24):
providing advocacy, mentorship,and leadership opportunities
for women in hospitality.
We celebrate her vision,her strength, and the
countless women she uplifts.
Through her mission.
This one's for the mothersmentors and makers who lead
with heart and purpose.
Happy Mother's Day.
From local kitchens to thenational stage, chef Ashley
(00:46):
Brown has carved her ownpath through the heart of
Colorado's culinary scene.
As a mother and chef decuisine at four by celebrity
chef, Brother Luck, she'sredefining Southwest
flavors with bold creativityand unstoppable drive.
Today on Voice4Chefs,we sit down with Ashley
to hear her journey fromhometown roots to chop fame.
(01:09):
Ashley, welcome to the show.
From local kitchens to thenational stage, chef Ashley
Brown has carved her own paththrough the heart of Colorado's
(01:30):
culinary scene as the Chef decuisine at four by Brother Luck.
She's redefining Southwestflavors with bold creativity
and unstoppable drive.
Today on Voice for Chefs,we sit down with Ashley
to hear her journey fromhometown roots to chop fame.
Ashley, welcome to the show.
Chef Ashl (01:50):
Thanks for having me.
I'm really excited.
Michael Dugan (01:53):
Me too.
So why don't we start out alittle bit about getting to
know you and understandingyour, your struggles, your
journey to become a chef,and take us through where
did you get started andhow did you end up here?
Chef Ashley Brown (02:08):
Yeah.
I wanna be a, a chef at a veryyoung age, seven years old.
Kids
Michael Dugan (02:13):
Oh my gosh.
Seven.
Chef Ashley Brown (02:14):
Yeah, kids wanna be power rangers or
firemen, things like that.
and I, I found my nichejust at the drop of a dime,
and I never went back.
I never did anything else.
I have nothing under mybelt except for food.
So I obsessed over itmy entire life and I'm
(02:34):
still obsessing over it,
Michael Dugan (02:36):
That's awesome.
What about like at seven?
What kind of thingswere you thinking about?
I know it's impossible to thinkof a seven being seven, but,
Chef A (02:44):
Yeah, no, I had a thing.
I remember my teacher, shegave the, the class, like a,
a sheet of paper, oh, what doyou wanna be when you grow up?
And I remember at one pointI wrote down, a lifeguard.
Michael Dugan (02:56):
Oh
Chef Ashley Brown (02:56):
I dunno why, but a lifeguard,
I thought it was cool.
I loved the pool.
I was always at the poolwhen I was a kid, but that
was, that was the only thing.
But outside of that, I cannotthink of anything else that
I ever wanted to do outsideof, maybe a bounce back.
let's say culinarydidn't really work out.
It would be photography.
Michael Dugan (03:14):
Well, that makes a lot of sense.
Yeah, totally.
Chef Ashley Brown (03:17):
form in some way, shape or form.
art is really what I wantedto get into my family, like
my, my mom, my uncles, mysister, amazing artists.
Like they, their paintings,their drawing skills were
absolutely phenomenal.
And, art class was alwaystheir favorite and I loved to
see what, what all the thingsthat they did with their, with
(03:39):
their paintings and drawings.
It was always so beautiful.
I guess I chose cooking.
Michael Dugan (03:44):
Wow.
it's funny because Istudied to be a chef.
I never made it.
I never made it because Ileft because of a drive-by
shooting and the conditionsand, and just long hours.
And I was
Chef Ashley Brown (03:55):
Oh, yes.
Michael Dugan (03:56):
I just don't really want to do this anymore.
So it took a while for meto find myself, but that's
part of the reason I left.
But, for me, I love it.
I miss it.
And that's why a podcast, Imean, it's, it's just connecting
to you and, and learningthese stories and being able
to share these stories andcultivate these stories for
our listeners and, and peoplethat might be listening that
(04:18):
know you, and, and to beable to share your stories.
It's amazing to meto be connected back
to this community.
'cause I really miss it.
I absolutely miss it.
Tell us a little bit about,at seven you wanted to be
a chef, and then as you'regrowing up, how did it
lead to that direction?
Chef Ashley Brown (04:38):
I grew up in a really tiny town,
and like when I, I was sevenyears old, so I lived in
this town for nine years.
And, after having thisidea of wanting to become
a chef, my family, myteachers, they all knew it.
And that's all Iever talked about.
Those are the peoplethat believed in me.
(04:59):
That's what kind of shaped meto kind of be a people pleaser.
oh, you don't thinkI, I can do something.
I'm gonna show you I can do it.
And it was to showthem and not myself.
Michael Dugan (05:09):
Yeah.
Chef Ashley Brown (05:09):
So within the last three
years, I was literallyjust talking to a friend.
Earlier today, within the lastthree years, I just started
to realize how much I wanna dofor myself instead of others.
Michael Dugan (05:19):
Oh, I agree.
Chef Ashley Brown (05:20):
I'm been cooking professionally for
13 years and, after a whileyou start to value your time
and realize where you wannaput, all of your effort into,
Michael Dugan (05:31):
That's excellent.
Chef Ashley Brown (05:32):
gonna go to work, how much it is gonna go
to family, things like that.
Michael Dugan (05:35):
it's excellent advice.
I mean, I went through that too.
I've always been, I've beena people pleaser, my dad
was an alcoholic and, I wasbalancing that in my family
with, with my three siblings.
I learned really strong peopleskills, but I also got beat
up because of it, in therestaurant business that really
puts a drain on your mentalhealth until you figure it out.
(05:57):
Right.
And a lot of peoplefigured it out.
You figured it out, obviously.
I mean, I can hear it from theconversation we had before this
and now, as we're moving along,take us through kind of some of
the places that you worked andwere you always in Colorado?
Did I get that right?
Or did you movearound the country?
Chef Ashley Brown (06:15):
As far as working, yes, Colorado.
so I went to high schoolhere in Colorado Springs,
at Mesa Ridge, and theyhad a program called AVP.
And that program allowed me toget some college credit at the
community college here in town.
At the time, it was PikesPeak Community College.
(06:36):
They just recently changedto Pikes Peak State College.
so my senior year I didclasses at the culinary,
community college.
So I did that for my senioryear, and I did a competition,
for FCCLA and I won first place.
It was the firstthing I ever won.
Michael Dugan (06:55):
Wow.
Chef Ashley Brown (06:56):
it was, it was the craziest thing.
Like we, there was so manydifferent, parts of it.
There was garde manger, therewas knife skills, there was
baking, there was candy.
what I did, what was it?
the name of it was, gourmet.
Gourmet one, gourmetTwo and Gourmet three.
Michael Dugan (07:14):
Oh wow.
Chef Ashley Brown (07:14):
one I did, but me and my chef at
the time, we were practicingthis one dish that him
and I created for months.
So I always had that one dishfor, for lunch every single day.
And I mean, you couldn'tgo wrong with it.
It was a surfing turf.
Michael Dugan (07:28):
I've heard that in reading and research.
You are known for surf and turf.
Oh my gosh.
Chef Ashley Brown (07:34):
Yeah, so it was a filet mignon with shrimp
and this pan sauce that Icreated, that had some spiciness
in there, some acidity, justa whole umami of flavor.
And I
Michael Dugan (07:45):
Oh, I love it.
Chef Ashley Brown (07:46):
Competition was in Denver at Johnson Wales.
Everyone's doing alltheir stuff and I was the
last one to, to compete.
All the other subjectswere already done.
Everybody was hanging out.
So it was in the way back part.
And I remember everyone elsewho competed with all the other,
competitions, with the knifeskills and things like that.
There are windowseveryone could look into.
(08:08):
But I was the last one wayat the end of this hallway.
And everyone, including my,chef was trying to look into the
window, like, how is she doing?
Michael Dugan (08:17):
Oh, I love
Chef Ashley Brown (08:18):
of the judges were like, get
outta here, get outta here.
You can't come and watch.
Michael Dug (08:21):
Don't distract her.
Yeah.
Chef Ashley Brown (08:24):
So then finally we were done and I
competed against one other guy.
It was me and one other,guy that was in, that was
competing against in this one.
Finally, they hauled everyoneinto the auditorium and
they're putting down all the,winners from, runner ups to
gold, silver, and bronze.
(08:44):
And then I'm just thinkingto myself, my head's
down this entire time.
I was like, I don't got it.
I didn't get it.
And then finally theylisted like who was the
second place, and it wasone of 'em from, gourmet.
And then one of my studentsright next to me were
just kind of like, Ashley,you won first place?
And they called my name, firstplace of, gourmet Ashley Brown.
I was like, oh my god!.
Michael Dugan (09:05):
Yeah.
That's awesome.
Chef Ashley Brown (09:07):
I ever want.
It was insane.
And I ended up, at thetime it was, everyone's
got a signature dish.
I ended up kind of making thatas my signature dish, I suppose.
Michael Dugan (09:16):
Even today I've read about it and I'm like, wow.
Chef Ashley Brown (09:19):
I've, I've served it in many different
ways at, Four and at the zoowhere I worked at as well.
that's kind of one thing thatwe'll do every now and again, is
take old recipes and then finddifferent ways to revamp it.
It's really fun to do.
Michael Dugan (09:32):
Oh, that's really cool.
So you like competition.
Chef Ashley (09:36):
I do, I really do.
In a strange way.
it's something thatreally just dawned on me
just last week actually.
Michael Dugan (09:42):
Oh, wow.
Chef Ashley Brown (09:43):
I don't compete to beat other chefs.
Michael Dugan (09:47):
Yeah, I get it.
Chef Ashley Brown (09:47):
I compete to beat myself.
I want to see whatI'm capable of.
I want to see.
How I can push away allthe fears that I have and
all the doubt that I have,and I wanna beat those
awful negative thoughts.
And so that's why I compete,
Michael Dugan (10:06):
You're inspiring so many people
that are gonna listen.
I'm telling you right now.
I mean, I thinkthat's how you win.
I mean, that, I really thinkonce you can mature enough
and say it's not, you're notcomparing yourself, you're
stepping it up and you'recompeting with yourself.
Chef Ashley Brown (10:21):
You are your worst critic,
Michael Dugan (10:23):
Oh, yeah.
The self-talk.
Chef Ashley Brown (10:26):
yeah.
And that's
Michael Dugan (10:27):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Chef Ashley Brown (10:27):
always be your worst critic and
you're always gonna be inyour head no matter what.
So, and it is just likethose, those at the top
are collaborating and theones at the bottom are
competing against each other.
And I that I've never hadthe competitive personality.
I am.
Competing against myself.
Like you say, I wannasee what I'm capable of.
(10:49):
I wanna push myself,and see what I can do.
where, where's my mind gonnago with this crazy three
step, three random ingredientthing, what can I do with it,
Michael Dugan (11:02):
So tell me about surfing turf.
what was, what was the surf?
I know what the turfwas, but what was surf?
Chef Ashle (11:08):
The surf was shrimp.
Michael Dugan (11:09):
Oh, okay.
Chef Ashley Brown (11:10):
Yeah.
It was big old shrimp.
The biggest
Michael Dugan (11:12):
I love big old shrimp.
Chef Ashley Brown (11:13):
Yeah.
It was, it was,there were U Tens.
Michael Dugan (11:16):
Oh, nice.
Chef Ashley Brown (11:17):
Meaning just barely in culinary
school and you only see alittle tiny dried up ones
that you'd see at the store.
Michael Dugan (11:24):
And we should explain that too.
U 10 means 10 to a pound,
Chef Ashley Brown (11:27):
Mm-hmm.
Michael Dugan (11:28):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that meansthey're pretty big.
Chef Ashley Brown (11:30):
Big boys.
Yeah.
Michael Dugan (11:31):
It's like a lobster tail almost.
so tell us more about soyou went and you competed,
and then when did you gointo the world of cooking?
Like start in differentrestaurants and can
you tell us a couple ofthem that you worked at?
Chef Ashley Brown (11:46):
It was right after I graduated.
Soon as I graduated highschool, I went to Denver
'cause I got accepted tothe Art Institute in Denver.
So while I was attendingculinary school up there, I
was trying to find work andI, I didn't take any break.
(12:07):
I took a month from graduatingto moving to Denver,
starting culinary school.
I only took just June.
So I started working in July.
So when I first went in there,just trying to find myself,
never been on my own before.
I'm in a big city and.
(12:27):
I'm just doing what anyyoung adult would coming
into their adult life.
So then I started totake responsibility.
I was like, okay, letme start finding a job.
Now that I know what myschedule's let's start coming
up with a, with a system.
And conveniently across thestreet from my dorms was this
cute little Italian restaurant.
(12:47):
I don't remember the name ofit, but I ate it a couple times.
'cause it was, itwas right there.
And so I was like,you know what?
Why not are you guys hiring?
So I put in for, an applicationand did the interview
and they're like, oh, doyou have any, experience?
I was like, no, I'mjust in culinary school,
but this is my passion.
I want to do this forthe rest of my life.
(13:08):
They're like, I don't knowif you can handle that.
maybe we start you off atthe bar, or maybe a hostess.
I'm like, anyonestarts anywhere, so I
guess let's try this.
And so we we're donewith the interview.
And I, I have thejob to be a hostess.
And later on that night, mindyou, I haven't even started yet.
(13:29):
And later on that night,they called me and they're
like, yeah, no, we're good.
Michael Dugan (13:33):
Okay.
Chef Ashley Brown (13:34):
wait, like you don't, you don't need me.
what do you mean?
They're like, yeah,we, we don't need you.
We're good.
I was like, oh, well thanks.
Okay.
So then, a couple dayspasses and I'm just roaming
around, downtown in Denver.
I'm just kind of startinga little bit of my
portfolio for photography.
And my mom got me a camerafor my graduation gift.
And so I've just taken somecool pictures of all the
(13:55):
skyscrapers, some of theparks that are downtown.
And I come across, this littlecafe called Rendezvous Cafe,
and it's in, the HistoryColorado Center Museum right
there downtown on Lincoln.
And I go in there and I waslike, I just wanna know if
I, if you guys are hiring,if I can get an application.
They're like, yeah, I thinkour culinary's hiring.
(14:18):
And so the woman that wasworking front of house
asked our gm, he comes out,gives me the application
to fill out, I fill it out,bring it in the next day.
Michael Dugan (14:28):
yeah.
Chef Ashley Brown (14:28):
And so he, we sit down and we do an interview
with the GM and then the chef.
And I don't know what theysaw in me, knowing that I
had no experience still.
they hired me on the spot.
I was like, I am so lucky.
What did I do to, to get this?
And I, and I told them, I waslike, did I really get this?
(14:51):
'cause I was just toldthis a couple days ago,
You signed all the papers.
your, your W2, your or yourW four, things like that.
I was like, yeah.
I was like, well, I'm justmaking sure 'cause I didn't
wanna get my hopes up, Andthey're like, yeah, no, you got
the job, can you start this day?
And then it's juststarted from there.
And I was on the culinary team.
So this company, they're nowcalled SSA group, but at the
(15:14):
time they were called KMSSA,KM stands for Kevin McNicholas.
He was the founderof the company.
And so it was KM Concessions.
They partner with,museums, aquariums,
Michael Dugan (15:26):
Oh, cool.
Chef Ashley Brown (15:28):
things like that, all throughout
the entire nation.
They have so many locations andthe company was just fantastic.
They, took really goodcare of, of the people
Michael Dugan (15:36):
good.
Chef Ashley Brown (15:37):
That showed a lot of dedication
for the most part.
so while I was at that location,so just in Denver, they have
Denver Zoo and they haveNational Western Stock Show.
They used to, they now nolonger have, the museum,
the Colorado Museum.
They're no longer partneredtogether, but they still
have those two locations.
(15:58):
And here in Colorado Springs,they have Cheyenne Mountain
Zoo and, the Olympic Museum.
Michael Dugan (16:04):
Okay.
Chef Ashley Brown (16:04):
So my sister, she got sick
Michael Dugan (16:08):
Hmm.
Chef Ashley Brown (16:09):
again.
She, she went throughkidney failure.
So my mom, she's taken careof her and I didn't wanna
be away, an hour away.
And I wanted to, to make surethat my mom's got support.
My sister has support.
So I came back toColorado Springs.
So I left Denver, came backhere, and I transferred to
Seye Mountain Zoo, whichis with the same company,
SSA I did work hard.
I did work hard some ways.
(16:30):
I do feel like I was lucky,but other times some people
will say I was lucky, but no,I, I worked hard for that,
Michael Dugan (16:37):
Well, you wanted to be a chef at seven.
Chef Ashley Brown (16:38):
yeah,
Michael Dugan (16:39):
there's a lot to that in the drive, right?
Chef Ashley Brown (16:42):
you do all the research you possibly can,
I transferred to Seye MountainZoo and I was with them for
about eight years and movedup to, to be sous chef,
handling all the caterings andall the, the food locations
that they have over there.
opened up the barbecue joint,the pizza joint, It was amazing.
And the people that thatwere there were fantastic.
(17:02):
And some of them ended upbecoming like family and
Michael Dugan (17:06):
love it.
Chef Ashley Brown (17:07):
Just doing all these other
events and helping outall the other locations.
I always loved it.
sometimes you're never justin the same four walls.
That's probably my favoritepart was going to all the
other locations that SSA hadand helping and creating these
relationships with all the otherchefs that were in the company.
And it was just so fun, And, itwas an open kitchen concept too.
The chefs, they took theguest orders, they cooked
(17:30):
it, and they served it.
So you get a lot of peopleskills and you created a lot
of relationships with it somuch that at one point, I
ended up being nominated foran award with the company
for, best guest service.
Michael Dugan (17:44):
Awesome.
Chef Ashley Brown (17:45):
It was great.
It was the last yearthat I was there.
It was very bittersweet because,they acknowledged me for that.
but you know, it wasn't toolong after that that covid hit
and then that's when I left.
Michael Dugan (17:57):
Oh, really?
So we're talking justa couple years ago.
Okay.
Wow.
Yeah.
2020. Yeah.
Yeah.
Chef Ashley Brown (18:04):
and I got that award just
at the end of 2019.
I still have that plaque too.
it's just, it's a littlesymbol of, who grew me, who,
who built me from the dirt,and that, that company did.
Michael Dugan (18:17):
And, one of the questions I had too is what
happened at Covid, becausethere's a lot of stories that
people have, and I started thepodcast to honor chefs during
Covid because I just thoughtpeople work so hard in this
industry and they need to beput on a pedestal in my mind,
because it, it wasn't fair.
Like I had a secure job.
And then I thought about peoplethat were friends of mine in the
(18:38):
business and I'm going, oh mygosh, that is just not right.
Shutting all restaurantsdown and our governor
shut down all restaurants.
I looked around theworld and it's like
everywhere is shutdown.
Chef Ashley Bro (18:49):
It just a halt.
Michael Dugan (18:51):
And so how did you cope?
What happened?
Chef Ashley Bro (18:55):
I lost my shit.
Michael Dugan (18:57):
Yeah.
I believe it.
Chef Ashley (18:58):
So we got notified.
So I actually, so just kindof when the, the week that
covid hit, a week prior, Idid an event at Brother Lux.
Mind you, I still, I'mstill an employee with SSA
at the Zoo, brother Luck.
He does these, collaborationswith other top chefs.
(19:21):
This one was with Tanya Halden.
He invited, my chef Bo Greento come and cook in his
restaurant, give this amazingexperience to the guests.
So after it wasjust maybe a week.
A couple days afterwe get notified.
'cause I remember we broughtTanya Hall into the zoo
so she can experience it.
(19:41):
And it was freezing out, itwas snowy, but I wanted to give
her an experience, show her alittle bit of Colorado Springs.
And I remember just everyone'son the radio like, answer your
phones, answer your phones.
So we had carryradios at the zoo.
it's a huge place.
So you need some wayto communicate, okay,
answer your phones.
Places are shutting down.
(20:01):
And we're like, what?
What are we gonna do?
Okay, this is whatwe're gonna do.
We're just trying to figureout, okay, what is going on?
Michael Dugan (20:08):
Yeah.
Chef Ashley Brown (20:09):
What do you mean we're shutting down?
And so the next day everythingshut down, everybody go home.
And be prepared.
I don't know what's gonnahappen, but be prepared.
And then, so I just, I criedand I cried and I was like,
I've given so much to thisplace, and what are we gonna do?
what am what's gonnahappen to my family?
(20:30):
much like everybody elsehad the same questions
and, it happens, everyonefrom SSA is, is laid off.
I'm sorry, but we're trying tofigure all this out together.
And it, it was, it wasjust a whole switch.
It was just so sudden, firstit, COVID was just a whole
joke and then all of a suddenit was just, oh, no job.
(20:54):
I. So it was crazy.
And then, so, everybodygoes on unemployment like,
oh yeah, you're okay.
And then finally I get acall like, okay, well we
wanna bring those who aredetrimental to the zoo.
and SSA, maybe it's not,you SSA can't hire you
back, but maybe the zoo.
We have a coffeespot over there.
So it was, do you wannacome and make coffee
(21:16):
for all the zookeepers?
absolutely anything, I'lldo anything to come back.
And so, I became a baristafor Covid, still at the zoo.
And the, the coffee shopwas called Cozy Goat.
And so just any anyonethat wanted to, to,
there was a window.
So any of the zookeepers thatwanted to come, they can line up
(21:36):
right out front of the window.
'cause no one canbe inside together.
Or I could make 'em, and thenI would run 'em to any of the
departments around the zoo.
So I would just makecoffee for a couple months.
And I just remember sittingout there, so this zoo
overlooks Colorado Springs.
It's on a mountain.
So I remember just sittingthere, no one's making
any calls, and I'm justlooking at the city and
(21:57):
I just become emotional.
And I'm just kind oflike, imagine this is the
world that we live in now.
everything's just a halt now.
I'm a freaking barista.
Michael Dugan (22:06):
No, I get
Chef Ashley Brown (22:07):
And it was just like I became emotional and
I was telling my other friendsdoing the same thing, they hired
some of the other employees backto, we would swap out days of
being baristas with each otherand like what are we doing?
And so that's when,at that point.
what, what can Ido for my family?
what's, what's the next steps?
And finally they slowly startedto bring back, all of the, the
(22:28):
chefs and, more of the, thefood and beverage employees.
And my head chef, BoGreen, he was always there.
Thank God they didn'tlay him off at the time.
So he's just trying to, he wentthrough all the coolers and
donated as much as he possibly
Michael Dugan (22:44):
That's what a lot of places
Chef Ashley Brown (22:46):
Yeah.
A lot of the, the soupkitchens and things like that.
And,
Michael Dugan (22:49):
it to the employees.
if you're laying peopleoff and they're struggling,
give them, give them the
Chef Ashley Brown (22:54):
I had so much food in my
pantry, he was insane.
I'm like, what am I gonna dowith 25 pounds of risotto?
Michael Dugan (22:58):
I know.
I know.
Chef Ashley Brown (23:01):
It was all a beautiful thing
though, to see everyone stillcome together in some way.
But, and I remember hewould come in, he would.
Make lunch for some of thestaff members, the limited
staff members that were there.
And he would send me a picturelike, oh, I got tacos here
today if you wanna comeover and eat some tacos.
So, we would just talkthrough some things and then
slowly we started to okay,this is what we're gonna do.
(23:23):
We're gonna bring back allthe cooks and all the food
and beverage, at least most of'em, and then we're gonna make
lunch for all the zookeepers,no longer just coffee.
Let's do, grab and go, okay,we're gonna make all these
sandwiches, all these sides,things like that, to where
they can come in quick,grab and go stay out of the
locations as much as possible.
25 people at a time, thewhole, the whole nine.
(23:45):
So then after that, thingsstarted to slowly build back up.
We opened our doors likeeverybody else, and it's
kind of, a little bitof history from there.
it was a pain in theass wearing the masks
Michael Dugan (23:56):
Oh, I know when you wear glasses, my
wife doesn't wear glasses.
She doesn't understandwhen it fogs up.
It is the most frustrating.
You gotta do it, butit's so frustrating.
Try driving like that.
Or, working in the kitchenwith a mask and it's, and the
Chef A (24:12):
steamy, it's smoky, ugh.
Michael Dugan (24:14):
I, I just felt for the people and
that's why I started thepodcast four years ago.
I just, I woke up one day andI'm like, chefs need a voice.
It's just, that's it.
It's that simple.
And that's why I waswondering about your
experience with the Pandemic.
'cause it sounds verysimilar to other people
Chef Ashley Brown (24:30):
of course.
I, I think everybodyhad the same,
Michael Dugan (24:34):
Yeah.
Chef Ashle (24:34):
the same experience.
this, the entireworld stops and then
Michael Dugan (24:37):
Right.
Chef Ashley Brown (24:38):
wait, what are you gonna do?
Michael Dugan (24:40):
Yeah.
And, and, it just, it reallychanged everyone, right?
And then the food costwent up and so then people
start complaining abouthow expensive food is.
But it's hey.
Restaurant has to survive.
They have to dealwith all these things
Chef Ashley Brown (24:56):
Yeah, now you're getting to go boxes
and to go cups, and then nowyou're charging for deliveries
Michael Dugan (25:01):
Right, But like here, seafood has skyrocketed.
I mean, king Crab, which Ilove and I'm addicted to, is
about 70 a pound, I think.
Something like that.
And it's in Alaska, whichis down the road, literally.
Dungeons Crab locallycan be 50 for crab meat.
It's 50 a pound forregular Dungeons Crab.
(25:23):
It can get up to 20a pound with Shell.
Right.
And that's just crazy.
Like I used to get it for 3 99
Chef Ashley Bro (25:29):
yeah, I'm sure.
And
Michael Dugan (25:31):
I mean, it's like almost lobster is
almost cheaper and it's allthe way across the country,
Chef Ashley Brown (25:36):
I know.
How bad do I want this?
Michael Dugan (25:37):
Right, right.
Chef Ashley Brown (25:39):
you so much.
Come back.
Michael Dugan (25:40):
I know, and I'm addicted to seafood.
My friend chef Mimi thatI was telling you about,
she's the one that reallyhelped me get this podcast
out there, from Clubhousethat I talk about a lot.
But she says, Mike, you'readdicted to seafood.
'cause I, all I ever dois talk about seafood,
Chef Ashley Brown (25:56):
Hmm.
Nothing wrong with that.
Michael Dugan (25:57):
It's expensive now, and it's really expensive
and it's almost like a drug.
It's really, really expensive.
But I understand, there'sreasons behind it, and I'm not
upset with anyone about it.
It's just, it's just a factand you just have to accept
it if you're going to eat it.
As we move on, so you're atthe zoo, which is amazing.
(26:18):
I was a volunteer at Aquariumfor a long time, actually.
Absolutely loved the culture.
But what'd you do from the zoo?
Where did you move from there?
Chef Ashley Brown (26:26):
So after that, I started to
realize like how bored Iwas, nothing was going on
and it's no one's fault.
Michael Dugan (26:33):
Right.
Chef Ashley Brown (26:34):
We couldn't get any caterings.
'cause still limitedpeople in the buildings.
And, so I asked mychef again, Bo Green.
I was like, I am bored.
And he goes, he sees thesethings in me that he goes,
he knows something's wrongbefore I even tell him.
He, he always called it,my gears are turning.
He goes, I see your gearsare turning, what's going on?
(26:54):
And I told him, I was like, I'mbored, And I was like, what?
What can we do?
He goes, I can't giveyou anything right
now, and I'm so sorry.
Maybe I can ask around, see ifanyone's willing to have you in
their kitchen for a couple days.
I'm like, yeah, sure.
But there's not very manypeople that I want to work with,
outside of you and, and brother,I've always wanted to work him,
Michael Dugan (27:15):
Yeah.
Chef Ashley Brown (27:15):
I couldn't think of anywhere else I would
feel comfortable in, And so.
I was kinda like, okay, butwhatever comes, whatever comes.
And so he reached out tobrother and I had no idea.
Him and brother were talking,brother put an ad on his
Facebook saying that he waslooking for a sous chef.
'cause his sous chef, she wantedto do exactly what I was doing.
(27:38):
She wanted a little bit ofa change, and she ended up
opening a beautiful restaurant,helping open a beautiful
restaurant here in town.
so I was essentiallygonna replace her.
Michael Dugan (27:49):
Mm-hmm.
Chef Ashley Brown (27:50):
So I, I tell Bo and I was like, brother's
looking for a sous chef?
He goes, are you gonna do it?
And I was like, I, I wantto, but I don't know.
I am not qualified to besous chef for brother.
Freaking luck.
Michael Dugan (28:04):
Yeah.
Chef Ashley Brown (28:04):
This man.
Michael Dugan (28:06):
You have to explain who he is because I know
a little bit about him, and I'mamazed because I'm connected to
Jensen Cummings, who I think hasthe most amazing podcast in the
entire world and has inspired meto keep going many, many times.
And I saw him connect withBrother Luck, and I learned
about him through him.
So when we had that connection,I was like, oh my gosh, brother.
(28:29):
wow, And, and it just, andAshley, and it's like all
this, this, these connectionsin Colorado just got me really
excited when I saw all this.
I was like, wow.
And it just happened like africking ton, a tornado for me.
But nobody that's listening,unless they're in Colorado,
is gonna know who he is.
(28:49):
Can you tell us about him andwho, who he is and what he
did with you, and just kind oftalk a little bit about that.
Chef Ashley Brown (28:56):
So Brother Luck, he is a local celebrity
here in Colorado Springs.
he's been on Beat BobbyFlay, which he beat.
Yes, we love it.
Michael Dugan (29:06):
He beat him.
Chef Ashley Brown (29:07):
he beat
Michael Dugan (29:08):
He, whoa.
That's incredible.
I've had people thathave competed with
him but not beat him.
That's awesome.
Chef Ashley Brown (29:14):
beat Bobby Flay and pulled
pork in 45 minutes.
Michael Dugan (29:19):
I love it.
Chef Ashley Brown (29:21):
Yeah.
So he beat Bobby Flay andhe was on Top Chef twice
and he was on chopped.
Michael Dugan (29:26):
Okay.
Sure, sure.
Oh, that's
Chef Ashley Brown (29:28):
Outside of that, he's ran a couple
of resorts here in town.
He's established hisown, his own brand.
He's, he's an advocatefor culinary students.
He's an advocatefor mental health.
Michael Dugan (29:40):
I love it.
Chef Ashley Bro (29:41):
a great mentor.
He is a fantastic mentorand the way that he thinks
about things and all thesephilosophies that he has,
Michael Dugan (29:48):
I can tell he is very philosophical 'cause
I've heard some things and,
Chef Ashley Brown (29:52):
The way that his mind works is, is crazy.
But
Michael Dugan (29:56):
That's incedible
Chef Ashley Brown (29:57):
his connection to Colorado
Springs and what he doesfor Colorado Springs, it's
not just for his brand.
It's, what, what's he doing forother, for other restaurants and
schools and things like that.
like we get
Michael Dugan (30:09):
Oh, I love it.
Chef Ashley Brown (30:10):
high school students, we'll get
in, there's some culinaryprograms that we'll get in their
students and we teach them.
Brothers always taught them,he does cooking classes.
Like this man is a jackof all trades and a master
to damn near all of 'em,
Michael Dugan (30:24):
Oh wow.
Wow.
Chef Ashley Brown (30:27):
it's, yeah, he's a great person
to work for and he is
Michael Dugan (30:31):
Cool.
Chef Ashley Brown (30:31):
got, he's given me so many opportunities
just working with him.
So I first discovered Brother,the first year that I came
back to Colorado Springs,working for Shy Mountain Zoo.
I. My chef and himused to work together.
He used to be his souschef, Nate Berger.
he was my chef when Icame to Colorado Springs.
So he goes, you know what?
I have, I got a chef.
(30:51):
He does these thingcalled, knife fights.
I was like, okay,well what's that?
So these knife fights brotherwould host at his restaurant.
Michael Dugan (30:59):
saw you on that talking about it, so
I was wondering about that.
So I really wanna know, I'dlove to hear about this.
This is awesome.
Chef Ashley Brown (31:07):
knife fight and it was like my
only, my second year of beinglike in the culinary world.
Michael Dugan (31:12):
Wow.
Chef Ashley Brown (31:12):
And he goes, I'll partner you up with
someone who was of your level,
Michael Dugan (31:16):
Wow.
Chef Ashley (31:17):
go to Brother Luck.
Michael Dugan (31:19):
Awesome.
Chef Ashley Brown (31:20):
He told him like, Hey, I
got these two candidates.
Let's schedule this.
And so went to hisrestaurant and it was almost
like Chopped gives you afew, mystery ingredients
and a certain time and.
You just fight, fromthere, what can you, what
can you get out of this?
These three ingredients?
But I think it wastwo at the time.
(31:40):
It was all I
Michael Dugan (31:41):
Oh my gosh.
Chef Ashl (31:42):
Skinless duck breast.
I never let him live this down.
Skinless duck,breast and fennel.
Now duck, you need a lot of fat.
Michael Dugan (31:51):
And it's skinless, right?
Oh my God.
Chef Ashley Brown (31:55):
The competition started
the container of baconfat went missing.
where did this thing go?
Michael Dugan (32:01):
In part two, chef Ashley Brown shares her journey
from local cooking competitionsto working with renowned chef,
celebrity chef, brother Luck.
She recounts her intenseand emotional experience on
the TV show chop where shefaced rigorous challenges
and unexpected setbacks.
She values the growthand connections made her
story leads into a deeperexploration of her culinary
(32:23):
adventures and involvementwith the MAP organization.
Stay tuned for part two.
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