October 12, 2025 • 41 mins
In this episode of Voice4Chefs, Hosts Michael Dugan and Chef Steven engage with Chef Kristen Watts Schumacher, also known as Chef Shu, the Culinary Director at Carnation Farms in the Snoqualmie Valley, Seattle. Chef Shu shares her inspirational journey from cooking for friends in her teenage years to running the heirloom cookshop and leading farm to table feasts. The conversation delves into her early influences, challenges, and triumphs, highlighting her love for community, resilience, and food without ego. Chef Shu discusses the deep connection she feels to Carnation Farms, including the regenerative farming practices and the farm's mission to provide fresh, local produce. They explore her diverse culinary experiences, including starting a cooking class program at Carnation Farms, and how transitioning into motherhood reshaped her definition of success. The episode also touches upon her philosophy of teamwork and humility in the kitchen, the importance of local produce, and the unique experiences offered at Carnation Farms’ events such as farm dinners and feasts in the field, where guests connect directly to the land, the animals, and the dedicated team behind the scenes.
00:00 Introduction and Welcome
00:46 Chef Shu's Culinary Journey Begins
02:40 Discovering the Passion for Cooking
05:30 From Culinary School to Professional Chef
07:46 Building the Heirloom Cook Shop
11:35 Challenges and Triumphs of Entrepreneurship
16:05 Transition to Carnation Farms
17:44 The Allure of Carnation Farms
19:40 Teaching Cooking Skills
20:23 Farm Dinners and Community Connection
20:45 Inspiration and Home Cooking
21:32 The Power of Local Ingredients
22:00 Feast in the Field Experience
24:17 Honoring the Source of Food
30:06 Leadership and Team Values
35:38 Upcoming Events at Carnation Farms
38:25 Final Thoughts and Gratitude
Website: https://carnationfarms.org
Email: kristens@carnationfarms.org
Season2
Welcome Chef Steven Leung as our new cohost.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Host Michael Dugan (00:00):
I'm Michael Dugan and I'm here
with my co-host, chef Steven.
On this episode ofVoice4Chefs, we sit down
with Chef Kristen WattsSchumacher, known as Chef Shu.
She is the culinary directorof Carnation Farms in
the Snoqualmie Valley outof Seattle, Washington.
From teaching to running theheirloom cook shop to leading
(00:23):
farm to table feast, herjourney is all about resilience,
community, and food without ego.
Chef Shu, welcometo Voice for Chefs.
Chef Kristen Schumaker (00:35):
Thank you so much for having me.
Welcome.
Thanks
Host Michael Dugan (00:38):
and welcome back, chef Steven.
Chef Steven (00:41):
Thank you Michael.
I'm super excited fortoday with Chef Kristin.
Let's kick it off.
Host Michael Dugan (00:46):
I wanna start out, chef Shu with.
We had a conversation nottoo long ago and you got
really excited about food andthe culinary arts and Yeah.
Where does that come from?
Like, is that in your childhood?
A lot of chefs that I talk toand that we talk to, you know,
it's, it always stems fromthere, like what is the origin?
Chef Kristen Schumaker (01:09):
Yeah.
I don't know if there'sanything specific to pinpoint
for my childhood, I would say.
Food and cooking for othersis my love language.
And so that's the way I showmy love and care for others.
And I put so much effortand emphasis on having
a meal together.
And I did start cooking probablyas a teenager for my friends.
(01:31):
And certainly I think lookingback, I'm like, I probably took
risks that I wasn't necessarilycomfortable with, but.
Yeah.
I think it's just the wayI show my love for others.
Chef Steven Leung (01:44):
Yeah.
that's awesome.
It's beautiful.
That's kind of how Istarted it too, Michael.
I invited friends Yeah.
To my house and then like cook.
Terribly tasted food.
yeah.
But then I, along theway, I got better.
And that you know, youget, you feed from that.
Yeah.
Host Michael Dugan (01:59):
I remember doing similar things.
I remember cooking for myparents, you know, and I was
living at home, having a reallyhard time kind of growing up
in the restaurant business.
And I remember.
Doing things likeflipping frozen peas
to learn how to saute.
Oh.
And they went all,all over the floor.
All over the kitchen floor.
(02:19):
I'd sweep 'em back up and Iput them in the pan because
we weren't gonna eat 'em.
So it turned out, and it cameout really tender and so I used
to love to cook with my momwhen I was going through cookie
school and things like that.
So we all kinda havethose interesting
origin stories, I think.
Yeah.
And it's part ofwhat makes us up.
(02:40):
What age do you think youwere when you thought.
That this was your calling,that you wanted to be a
chef, that you wanted tobe in the culinary arts,
Chef Kristen Schumaker (02:49):
I've always cooked as you do because
you have to feed yourselfand It sort of turned into
like a little bit of an extrahobby, meaning like I put
a little bit more time andeffort into thinking about it.
When I was in Chicago, in mytwenties, I would regularly
go to the farmer's marketsand it felt like I was home.
(03:09):
You know, it, it feltso good to explore.
The things, the fresh vegetablesand actually talk to the
people who are growing it.
I took a couple just consumercooking classes and one of
the classes we met at thefarmer's market, we picked some
things up, we went back to theplace and we made it up as we
went along and it lit me up.
(03:30):
That school is called theChopping Block in Chicago, and
their original location wasthis adorable historical little
house, and I still remember.
The details within that kitchen.
I remember the feelings Igot when I tasted something
new, when I was sharing food.
I just, so I would say inmy early twenties and I
(03:53):
just continued to think,oh, this is just my hobby.
I'm gonna make somemoney somehow, but yeah, I
gotta feed myself anyway.
And then I guess I hadalready moved to Seattle, but
I thought to myself, well.
I would go home and kind ofde-stress unwind by Uhhuh
running to the market andcooking for a couple hours,
(04:15):
which sounds probably likea chore for a lot of people,
but it would calm me downand yeah, sort of then I
realized I should probably.
Do this for a living.
So yeah I have the luxurythat I get to love what I do.
Host Michael Dugan (04:29):
And I see Steven nodding.
Were you doing that too, Steven?
Chef Steven Leung (04:33):
I'm nodding because I kind of,
you know, I never, I thoughtI was gonna be a chef.
I actually went to culinaryschool because I want
to, fulfill that the,my mom's, uh, wish of me
graduating from school.
Okay.
And then, uh, I think I became.
Like super passionateafter I felt that I was
good at it in school.
Chef Kristen Schumaker (04:53):
Yeah.
Chef Steven Leung (04:53):
After I was way older than
like a lot of kids.
Sure.
They were like twenties andI, oh, I attend when I was 23.
Okay.
So I wasn't like, as passionateas those kids watching, you
know cooking shows and foodchannels and stuff with all
the fancy quality returns.
I didn't know nothing.
Right.
You know, I was making,made fun of too, so that
pushed me to be better,
Host Michael Dugan (05:16):
okay.
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah.
Wow.
And so as you're kind of goingthrough this transformation,
this change and feeling thatpull to the culinary arts, what
would you say happened next?
Chef Kristen Schumaker (05:29):
Well, I was able to quit my full-time
job and go to culinary school.
I went to the SeattleCulinary Academy and, uh,
to honor my grandmother,her name is Sunshine.
She.
She funded the first fewquarters of culinary school
and allowed me to really,
Chef Steven L (05:47):
that's beautiful.
Chef Kristen Sch (05:47):
Put all, yeah.
Put all my efforts intolearning, and I said yes to
every volunteer opportunity.
I said yes to anything Icould to get more experience
and cooking on whether it'slike ships or catering jobs
or anything I just said yes.
So I think I leaned into it and.
(06:11):
I think that's where it started.
And then after culinaryschool, I just, I had sort
of like a non-traditional.
Trajectory, but it's gottento me where I wanna be.
Host Michael Dugan (06:20):
Well, let's take it up a little bit.
And so when you moved toSeattle you were cooking
in different restaurants.
Are there any thatyou wanna call out?
I'm curious because whichones did you work at?
I worked at a few myself.
Chef Kristen Schumaker (06:35):
Yeah.
One of my favorite places thatI worked in, I got a lot of
experience was Les Pichet,so that's in, in Belltown.
I think the staff photo isstill on the bathroom wall.
Oh, it looked like a ba a baby.
But, so I really got tolean into French cuisine and
technique and working in a,a tiny, very hot kitchen.
(06:57):
I also did.
It's a lot of catering jobsand cooking here and there and
saying yes to whatever I could.
Yeah.
Host Michael Dugan (07:04):
It's funny because I worked in a tiny.
Hot French kitchen too.
Called Le Courryard.
Oh.
And that's where Ifigured it all out.
You know everythingfrom scratch.
Yeah.
The foundation.
Yeah.
Steven.
The foundation.
All the different thingslike fileting salmon, you
know, from and deboningsalmon, deboning chickens
(07:25):
and ducks and yeah, makingcheesecakes and just being
in this small, intimate spacewhere you learn everything.
Yeah, like not a few things.
It's like everythingstart to finish.
Yeah.
And the foundation, I mean, I
Chef Kristen Schumaker (07:38):
still make a lot of those recipes.
I still make a Wow mean roastedchicken because of that place.
So,
Host Michael Dugan (07:46):
yeah.
and as you were kind ofgoing along that journey
then you ended up.
In Snoqualmie and tell usabout the heirloom cook shop,
because I know that lights youup when we talked about it
and I'd love for you to share.
Chef Kristen Schumaker (08:00):
I became a mother around those,
the earlier years moved toSnoqualmie, I was commuting to
the city to either Ballard orWest Seattle, which is about 45
minutes on a low traffic day.
And so having youngkids and needing to.
Be home by thetime bus got home.
That was really stressfuland hard and I, I didn't
(08:20):
feel like I was honoring themeither, so I was racing one
way and racing back and Ididn't feel like I was doing
anything at a hundred percent.
So I decided I want tostay in the community
where my kids' school was.
So if they needed to getpicked up from school,
I was five minutes away.
They were probably sixand eight ish at the time.
(08:42):
I worked with somefriends that really.
Boosted my confidenceabout how I can excel in
maybe being an entrepreneurand this friend just.
She helped me brainstormto then moving through the
process of designing a space.
So it happened that Ifound an old historic bank
(09:04):
in downtown Snoqualmie.
I did that Kickstarter,and so I had to put in
plumbing and electric.
The old bank vault wasmy pantry, and it really,
the building reallywasn't supposed to.
Be a restaurant.
I retrofitted it and
Host Michael Dugan (09:19):
Wow.
Chef Kristen Schumaker (09:21):
It was magical and it was the most
creative I think I'd ever been.
Host Michael Dugan (09:29):
Yeah.
What, how would you describe,like when, if you could paint
that picture for us, right?
For people that arelistening, how would you
describe what it was likewhen people were coming in?
To connect with you Yeah.
And to connect with thisvision that you had to
create this community, whichis what you really did.
Chef Kristen Schumaker (09:50):
Yeah.
I was so humbled.
So honored that I had, Icreated a space that fosters
that kind of connection.
Yeah.
I it fed my love forcollaboration because I. I
know I, I wanna collaborateand connect with people who
are also best at their craft.
(10:11):
I'm not, you know, I don'tmake wine, I don't make
beer, I don't make cheese,but there are people who
are best at those crafts.
And so if we cometogether and create a
community, it's, you know.
It's boundless.
So just like a place together,we hosted Friendsgiving and.
And rose tastings and classesand kids camps, and we had a
(10:34):
wedding in heirloom and wedecked it out for Christmas
and it just, it was a placethat people wanted to go.
And yeah I didn't really needany like social outlet outside
of my work because I got to seepeople all the time and it was.
Humbling, and I was superhonored to be able to
be part of that, thatSnoqualmie downtown.
Host Michael Dugan (10:57):
Yeah.
That's beautiful.
Steven, do youhave any questions?
Yeah, I in entrepreneur, Ithought this might resonate
Chef Ste (11:03):
with you a little bit.
No, actually yes.
I, what I just heard is like,I felt like motherhood really
reshaped your definition ofsuccess along the way, but, um.
Yeah.
About the, like thebusiness model, right?
You combine cookingclasses, Togo meals.
Yeah.
Brunches, retail,seasonal market.
Like how do you decide toinclude like all those layers?
(11:28):
Yeah.
I, one roof and like whatchallenges did you face?
Like management sucha di diverse you know?
Yeah.
Offerings.
Chef Kristen Schumaker (11:35):
Yeah, I went in I'm glad I was as naive
as I was, but I went in notknowing exactly what would, you
know, hit the ground running.
So I wanted to just diversifymy revenue and see what
people would come back to meand say, I really love this.
Let's have more of that.
And I have a lot ofconfidence in my flavors and
(11:56):
the food and the way I teach.
But it was also, you know, aback and forth with my guests,
everyone seemed to like it all.
So I think thatwas the challenge.
You know, I spent alot of time there.
The challenges that I think Ifaced was feeling like I was
actually attending businessschool by running a business.
(12:18):
Yeah, being an entrepreneur,I think I've always
had that spirit, but.
I don't think I knew howto read a p and L until
after I opened my business.
And then I realized like,okay, I actually took business
courses while I was doingthat just to hone in those
skills because just 'causeyou're really good at cooking
or any craft, that doesn'tmean you're good at math.
(12:40):
So I had to, yeah, and itfelt like swimming upstream a
little bit, like learning thoseskills, but I'm so glad I did.
And of course.
The hardest challengeof them all is staffing.
Chef (12:51):
Staffing, training, staff retention, culture building.
Host Michael Dugan (12:56):
yeah.
How did you navigate it?
How did you keeppeople motivated?
Yeah.
Because you can't pay'em that much, right?
So they gotta be intothe craft, right?
Chef Kristen Schumaker (13:05):
Yes.
They had to be in the craft.
Either they were friendsof mine that absolutely
supported what I was doing.
I had a friend who took ahiatus from her job for six
months, and she wanted tospend her time at Heirloom.
I brought on interns andstudents, and I have to
tell you, and Steven, youmentioned it before, I really
(13:27):
enjoyed, in particular thewomen that were mothers,
because mothers kind of.
They get it done.
Chef Steven Leung (13:35):
Yeah.
Wow.
they
Chef Kristen Schumaker (13:35):
They have that sense of urgency.
Yeah.
And I think that theyunderstand, they understood like
where I was coming from as well.
I also had a lot of volunteers,which was incredible.
The support was incredible.
So people would wanna volunteer.
I had a dear friendwho was on the.
Police force and Fridays,he would come and cook at
(13:56):
heirloom because that wasexactly opposite of what
he did on his daily basis,and it filled his cup
Chef Steven Leung (14:03):
wow.
Chef Krist (14:03):
That's really great.
Chef Steven Leung (14:05):
That's a beautiful angle to look at
it like mothers get thingsdone yeah, what a tagline.
Chef Kristen Schumaker (14:10):
I think I need to make sure it's right.
Yeah.
Host Michael Dugan (14:14):
Oh my gosh.
What about the.
The funding project?
How would you describe what itfeels like when you get that
funding from the community?
I mean that's what, 20,000,something like that?
Chef Kristen S (14:26):
I max it 25,000.
25. The thing with Kickstarteris if you don't reach your goal.
It all gets given back.
Host Michael Dugan (14:34):
Okay.
Chef Kris (14:34):
So it was terrifying.
Host Michael Dugan (14:36):
Oh my gosh.
Chef (14:38):
And I think you, I did not
Host Michael Dugan (14:38):
know that.
Wow.
Yes.
Chef Kristen Schumaker (14:40):
And I think you have 30 days.
So you have a timeline.
Yeah.
And you have a goalthat you have to reach.
And so yeah, it wasvery nerve wracking.
You know, you're checkingthat level every day.
But a lot of peoplesupported me and it was.
And this sense ofaccountability, I felt to
them I just wanted to do mybest and Like I said, I had
(15:00):
a lot of confidence in myflavors and my food and my
ability to entertain, butcould I do it on this scale?
I had to ask for that moneyfirst before I put in the
plumbing and electric and thewow in the tile and the floor.
And so I also borrowed a lotof money for myself and I'm, I.
You know, I bet onmy own self and,
Host Michael Dugan (15:21):
Yeah.
Chef Kristen Sc (15:22):
I'm glad I did.
Host Michael Dugan (15:24):
Yeah, it's a great, it's a great inspiring
story for entrepreneurs,especially for entrepreneurs
in the culinary industry.
Yeah.
Chef Steven Leung (15:32):
Yeah, because I know there's a. A
data rate of, failures with,like chefs opening a restaurant
because all they want to dois to show off their skill,
put everything they knowand it's all over the place.
It doesn't have a theme.
And yeah, and eventuallywith like, uh, not knowing
how to manage the P&Land stuff like that, and.
(15:53):
Yeah.
60% plus failure rate.
Chef (15:57):
It was a hard and fast few years of learning, but I
have so much gratitude for it.
Host Michael Dugan (16:04):
Yeah.
So as we move on fromheirloom, now we're moving
into Carnation Farms.
Chef Kristen Schumaker (16:10):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Host Michae (16:11):
What was that like?
What was that invite liketo be part of how did
that transition happen?
Chef Kristen Schumaker (16:17):
Well, the interview process was like.
Two months long and Wow.
Eight different interviews.
And then it, the culminationwas me putting on a farm
dinner for the board.
Oh my gosh.
Nerve wracking.
I guess it was moreabout, I know it was more
about selling myself.
I knew the food I was puttingin front of them was delicious.
(16:37):
I still love what I served, butthen it was about this selling
myself of what else can I do?
What else am I capable of?
And I think I've alreadyexceeded what my job role.
I like challenges.
Uh, I get to yeah, meeta lot of different people
and yeah, it was great.
Host Michael Dugan (16:56):
Did your role start out as the
culinary director or did youstart at a different place
and then work into that role?
Chef Kristen Schumaker (17:03):
Culinary operations and also education,
they wanted to make sure thatI was interested in doing
the educational aspect ofCarnation Farms within my role.
I think that's still growing.
And it's still happening.
I like I said, I'velearned so much more.
Um, yeah, I feel like I'mgoing to business school again.
(17:24):
Now I'm gettingmy MBA Wow again,
Host Michael (17:26):
that's fantastic.
What was it that reallydrew you to Carnation Farms?
Because, you know, my wifeand I attended one of the
farm to table meals and itwas incredible, just the
whole experience, but yeah.
But to work there.
Yeah.
And to be part ofthat what drew you in?
Chef Kris (17:44):
When I originally got hired, I was a staff person
of one in my kitchen.
Okay.
Oh my gosh.
Um, shortly, very shortly,I hired Chef Kristen.
She's, we call her Chef kb.
And what I think, and maybe Ididn't know at the time, and you
probably can relate when you'recoming around that bend and
you see that vast field . Youcan see that treeline Street
(18:07):
and you see these historicwhite barns with red roofs.
They're just, it speaks to you.
Oh yeah.
it's very difficult todescribe it unless you've
been there the vastness,the lushness of the space.
I think what drew me.
(18:27):
I think it was thejob description and
what it all entailed.
I did feel like it wasa challenge from where
I had been before.
But I liked the directionthey were going in the
regenerative farm principles.
That then I can, you know,I, I then created principles
for my kitchen and how.
All of those principles sortof reflect how we're doing
(18:50):
and how our mission is.
And so I think that's whatdrew me to the farm initially
was that mission and thatwhat they were hoping to.
To get outta me.
Host Michael Dugan (19:00):
Steven, you got anything there?
I just wanna kind oftag team a little bit.
Chef Stev (19:04):
No, that's beautiful.
But I actually have a questionabout the cooking classes
because Oh yeah, for sure.
Yeah, because like, uh, didyou start the cooking classes
just to bring an extra streamof income to the revenue?
What goals do you wanna reachby hosting cooking classes?
Chef (19:19):
Yeah, I think it was just another market to, to
connect with as consumers.
Some people are farmstand consumers.
Some people come to farmdinners, some people buy
beef, or lamb shares, or CSAs.
This was a way to get peopleto the farm physically and.
(19:40):
Cooking's a lost art, so I'vealways enjoyed teaching, and so
I brought that along with me.
It wasn't certainly arequirement for me to get
hired, but I think theyappreciated my interest in
doing that and continuing that.
Initially the classes were.
Definitely leaning towardsthe home cook, like preserving
(20:00):
the season or cheese makingat home or now we've gotten
into butchery and some morehigh technical skill work and
certainly that pool of customersis smaller than someone who
just wants to learn how to bake.
And so I think there's a spacefor everything and everyone
has a different skill level.
(20:21):
Yeah, I think.
It turns out that the peoplewho go to the class felt
that connection and allof a sudden they now wanna
come to a farm dinner.
I love it.
Oh my gosh.
And once you go to afarm dinner, you're like,
oh, I didn't realize Ican also get this fennel
salt in the farm stand.
I'm gonna sign up for theCSA because you get a kitchen
added value product every time.
So it's, I love that.
Yeah.
Chef Steven Leung (20:40):
It's very resourceful for
the whole picture.
I think.
Yeah.
and I was inspired byyou telling, you know.
Teaching how to make cheeseat home and stuff like that.
It inspired me to think aboutan idea is there's a lot of like
simple sauces, uh, foundationsauces that, uh, home cooks
can prep and make at home.
Just like we can usehealthy ingredients to
(21:02):
make ketchup instead ofbuying, you know, all right.
Processed.
You know?
Yeah.
Foods that are.
Killing us and stufflike that, right?
Chef Kristen Schumaker (21:09):
Yeah.
Well, and for people who enjoythat craft of making things, I
mean, obviously there's peoplewho find it to be a chore, and
that's not Where they're gonna,that's not what they value.
Yeah.
But people who actually love,well, I would say cooking
is their love language too.
It's like putting inthat time and effort
preserving and canning.
I mean, I love it.
And so there's definitely.
(21:31):
Especially here in Seattleland area, people really are
getting interested and careabout where their food is and
they have so much abundance.
Host Michael Dugan (21:38):
Yeah.
So, yeah.
That's amazing.
I just, yeah, just evenbeing connected to the land
around you and the farmersand making that full circle.
Right.
Yeah.
Sometimes you go out to eat andwe don't think about where it
comes from or how it comes from.
Yeah.
But it's really powerful.
(21:59):
So I wanna get to a littlebit that what really inspired
me personally to connectwith you was actually my
wife, because we were sitting
Chef Kristen S (22:08):
tell her thanks.
Host Michael Dugan (22:09):
Oh my gosh.
But we were sitting atthis incredible feast in
the field, I think it wascalled Feast in the Field.
I know you have differentones and oh my gosh, we're
around all these peoplethat are so passionate about
food, so passionate aboutfarming, so passionate about.
This concept, and we'd neverexperienced this before.
Oh.
And we just signed up and itwas like she signed me up and
(22:31):
I was so excited and it, Ijust was like, I'll probably
meet a really cool chef.
And sure enough, there you are.
But she's sitting there going,you should interview Kristen.
And I'm like, I know.
I know.
I already know.
I'm gonna go reach out toher and see what she says.
and you were just glowing,you were like on this
high that it's, yeah.
(22:52):
It's hard to describe, butyou were so in your niche.
Yeah.
Completely in your elementwith the food, with
the conversations, withthe connection to the
communities and bridgingeverything together.
And it's so powerful because,you know, chefs, I feel like
a lot of chefs have a realstruggle with communicating.
(23:14):
They have a real strugglewith, you know, they're in the
kitchen and then they gottago out and speak to people
in the dining room or in thecommunity or whatever that is.
And I'm a huge advocatefor Toastmasters.
People hear it on mypodcast all the time 'cause
that's how I launched thispodcast and getting over
that imposter syndrome.
But I see you up thereand I see you describing
(23:36):
the dishes to us and.
You could just feel it comingfrom really deep inside you
how this connection happened.
Yeah.
That's nice of you.
Thank you.
Well, it was so powerful tome because I feel that way and
I know Chef Steven does too.
'cause we've had theseconversations and it's just.
(23:58):
It's really special.
But what I would love foryou to share is what is it
like to experience that?
What do people comeback and tell you?
Or can you just walk usthrough really quick?
What is it like to walkinto Carnation Farms and
attend Feast in the field?
Yeah.
I think it connects theconsumer from our community
(24:21):
directly to the land,the animals, the people.
I was wanted to honor allthe hands That it took
to put, I love that, putthat meal on the table.
So it, the sense of connection,it's easy for me to talk about
what we do at Carnation andwhat we're cooking and how we're
inspired because we're sort of,we're around it all the time.
(24:44):
There is no, there isnothing fake about it.
Like I Right.
I'm ordering produce fromdirectly to the director of
regenerative agriculture.
My coworker Eric Pop, I'llcall him up and say, I need
this harvested for Friday.
And I mean, my God, thosecherry tomatoes coming off the
vine right now are like candy.
(25:04):
It's just, you are talkingabout that.
Oh my gosh.
Oh my
Chef Kristen Schumaker (25:06):
God.
I, you know, it,that makes it easy.
And I, I think honoringanimals is also.
I'm such an animal lover,but I'm also not a vegan,
so I make sure I am part ofthe process of I've seen
them birthed at the farm.
And I've also seen themharvested and yeah, I can
(25:27):
honor that animal fully.
We even know its name.
And so, yeah, I think it,it makes it easy for me
to talk about what we'redoing because it's real.
Yeah.
And I really, truly believein their mission and, you
know, regenerative practices.
It's not a new concept.
It's actually an old concept.
(25:48):
And we're just, it's notinnovative for us to try
and like do less, addless chemicals to the
soil or even less tillage.
Like that's an old concept.
We're just, we're trying tofigure out ways to do it better.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
It takes a huge amountof people and a lot of
passion to do it, so
Host Michael Dugan (26:13):
Chef Shu.
I wanted to move along anddescribe our experience of
Feast in the Forest and talka little bit about the menu.
Start out with a steakbite, which was from the
beef short loin, and it wasreally tender and delicious.
(26:38):
Came with garlic scapesand chimi, and then
tall fried potato.
The black cod was so tender,the texture was incredible.
With the watercresscreamy shallot Vinagrette.
And the greens came fromthe farm, and the next
dish was braised lamb.
(26:59):
It was a lamb shoulder ishow Chef Shu described it
with some pasta and oh, thesmoked tomato and chili pepper
relish was incredible, likethe flavors and the intensity.
And then she finished offwith a strawberry ice cream.
(27:20):
And it had a hazelnut prelean, and the hot fudge
was really good withstrawberry whipped cream.
The whole meal was amazing.
Chef Shu.
Chef Kristen Schumaker (27:32):
The sablefish that dish I had.
I was bursting outta myseams trying to like, tell
people where this came from.
Host Michael Dugan (27:39):
Yeah.
Chef Kri (27:40):
Chef KB had a contact.
They, it's afisher, it's a boat.
And it's called You arewhat You eat Fish Company.
Oh, nice.
And so she had worked withthem in the past and she
said, this family's wonderful.
The product is spectacular.
Let's put it on our menu.
And so in, in the kitchen,in my kitchen, I gather
(28:01):
everyone, whether they're.
New.
Or if they've been, you know,in culinary school or if they've
been at the farm for years.
Like, we come togetherand we write menus because
that's what inspires us.
And so we I give peoplethe opportunity to, you
know, I'm not just gonnasay, here's the menu and
this is what we're doing.
Like, wanna see what otherpeople are inspired and what
(28:23):
are their first thing we do islook at what's coming outta the.
The fields at our own farm,and we talk about what's our
inventory for our lamb and beef?
What can we highlight?
What can we show off?
And then outside our farm,it's what other farms can
we collaborate and showoff and tell their story.
We can tell the storyof the fishing boat.
(28:45):
We can tell the story aboutfarms among us who provided the
edible flowers or the herbs.
And so I think it's, you know.
Sharing knowledge, but I'malso, I always have that
sense of curiosity aboutwhat other people can do
and how we put it together.
I think at Dish, I'm noteven sure if I remember.
(29:06):
It's okay.
Host Michael (29:08):
It was really big.
The
Chef Kr (29:09):
perfection, I remember.
Host Michael Dugan (29:10):
I just know that I loved everything.
We don't drink alcohol, so, youknow, it's kind of expensive
when you're pairing withalcohols, but we came for the
food and the experience andeverything else, and yeah,
it was, yeah, it was amazing.
Chef Kristen Schumaker (29:22):
Well, and even now, in particular, the
feasts in the field, we it'sa flat rate because We want to
curate non-alcoholic beveragesalong with that food, along
with wine or beer or anythingfrom distilleries, right.
Because.
It's equally as creative.
Making beverages isactually really fun.
I love it.
(29:43):
Oh, cool.
We have put a lot ofeffort and time into
those pairings as well.
just because you don'tdrink wine doesn't mean
you shouldn't have a
Host Michael Dugan (29:52):
Yeah.
Drink.
So I. You know, it's funny'cause I'll go out to a bar
and I'm like, do you haveanything non-alcoholic?
And the first thing theycome up with is like, odos
or some, you know, right.
Non-alcoholic beer.
I'm like, I don't want that.
I just want know ginger beer.
Right.
I love ginger beer.
I do.
So, and when it'smade from scratch in
a brewery, oh my gosh.
(30:12):
Knock your socks off.
Okay.
So as we go along now.
The other things I'm thinkingabout, one of the things I
love that you told me, I washaving a conversation and
Chef Steven, you know herchef Abby, who's in Alaska
right now, incredible person.
She's such an advocate formental health, and we were
having a conversation about how.
(30:35):
In some places she wasn'ttreated very well, you know?
And she struggled withthat, but she's very strong
and you're like, there'sno ego in my kitchen.
Can you share what thatmeans to you and how
you lead in that way?
Chef Kristen Schumaker (30:47):
Yeah.
To me, the focus is on the food.
The story the sort ofstewardship of our farm.
And it's a team effort and.
I'm never gonna sayI've, I'm done learning.
I'm never gonna say I'veknown every, I know every
combination of food andfood flavors and I'm done.
(31:09):
You know?
Right.
That's never gonna happen.
Everyone comes with a differentbackground and skill and
honestly, a sense of curiosityand also like childhood
experiences, like, it just,there's, that's close-minded
to, to think that you havenothing else to learn.
And so I really.
(31:29):
Emphasize sort ofteam practices.
And at the farm we, we havecore values as a farm, and
then we're gonna have a corevalues as in our own team
and our own culinary mission.
So we're sort of movingtowards our goals together
instead of individually and.
(31:51):
Yeah.
I don't like that ego.
I don't, I think everyonedeserves respect.
Everyone wasworking really hard.
Everyone's working longhours and they're here
because they're passionate.
'cause why else would you do it?
Right?
You portray yourself.
No.
Host Michael Dugan (32:06):
There's a chef, Melissa Miranda,
and she goes by Mel.
In my opinion, she brought hercuisine to life here in Seattle.
She's incredible.
Yeah.
The, you know, thePhilippine culture.
The Philippine cuisine, but.
(32:28):
I don't know if you know, butshe has a TED Talk and what I
loved about this TED talk isthat she talked about a lot of
chefs think they're big C butwhat they should be is little c.
Yeah.
And it was a very powerful 15,probably 15 minute Ted talk.
Um, I've listened
Chef Kristen Schumaker (32:48):
to it.
It's magnificent.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I do think so as theculinary director to me.
I am in a service position Tothe people who work for me.
I wanna make sure theyhave what they need.
Their station is setphysically, their mind is ready.
they feel appreciated.
(33:10):
So I am of service to themto make sure they have
what they need to do, whatI'm asking them to do.
And so.
That's why I'm always fillingin, you know, if I, if they are
feeling like they're drowningin tasks, like I'll step in
and I want them to know thatthey can ask me or rely on
me for that if they have to.
Host Michael Dugan (33:34):
Yeah, I think it's really powerful.
And I also know that ChefSteven's philosophy on
leadership was very similarwhen we had a conversation.
In Clubhouse a couple years ago.
I was really impressedwith how he managed and
led and it was very similarto your philosophy, which
Chef Steven Leung (33:51):
yeah I agree with love what, uh, chef said,
because I feel like, yeah, wewere all, we're all here for
one passion, and then everyone'strying to be their best self.
We're in a positionto help them.
And so I was saying whenI create recipes, I don't
make it too complicated withhow many grams of water.
I always use volume becauseI feel like the easier you
(34:14):
make the task is the morepassionate I the more,
uh, a sense of successfulfulfillment for the staff and
they would be self-motivatedto come to work every day
and feel good about it.
Chef Kristen Schumaker (34:27):
Yeah.
I've never thoughtabout it that way.
Yeah.
Host Michael Dugan (34:30):
And then, you know, as we wrap up, is
there anyone that really helpedyou along in your journey
that you'd like to sharejust a minute or two about?
Because you know, for me,there are so many, but every
once in a while somebodyreally stands out for me.
Chef Kristen Schumaker (34:46):
There's probably a lot of people I know.
I wish I could name them all.
This is, it might soundcliche, but I'm really
grateful to my own kids.
There are 15 and.
Almost 18 now, and they'veseen my trajectory from, you
know, when they were very youngto what my work ethic and my
(35:09):
dreams and what I go after.
And I hope that I'm a, anexample to them for that.
I think they keep me, theykept me pretty rooted.
Maybe when I wanted to addone more cooking class,
but I was like, you know, Ihave to remember I also have
another job, which is them.
And so I'm, I will sayI'm pretty grateful for
(35:35):
the pure feedback theygive me when I don't
make something perfect.
Believe me, they'll tell me,but yeah, I just, I feel like.
We've been on thisjourney together.
Host Michael Dugan (35:44):
Yeah.
Nice.
Yeah, that's fantastic.
The last thing, well,there's one or two things,
but I know you just had.
A planning meeting.
Can you tell us about someof the events that are
coming up and how we canconnect with you, how people
that are listening in theSeattle area or maybe they're
traveling to Seattle, theycan find out more about, yeah.
Chef Kristen Schumaker (36:08):
Here's our plug carnation farms.org.
We our website should haveall of our events on there
that, that are coming up.
We did just have a 2026planning meeting and so
we'll have farm dinners.
I. Markets, spring market,holiday market plant sales.
We have history tours.
(36:28):
We've got popups at thefarm stand, and this is
across the whole farm.
This is not justculinary department.
We host barn dancesthat are very popular.
But the farm dinners are reallywhat's like dear to my heart.
We have a lot, we're super.
We are so lucky to have theinfrastructure we have, and it's
rooted in history, but we'vegot a renovated dining room
(36:52):
that's attached to a teachingkitchen and that'll host 40 and
it's intimate and beautiful.
The best view on the,in the farm, we call
it farm view kitchen.
Um, then we have another spacethat we can host up to 400, or
we have a. An outdoor space.
We renovated an oldtennis court and put a
tent over it and now it'swhere you had your meal.
(37:13):
Yeah.
And then my very favoritedinners are feasts in the
field where they're down.
Your feet are sortof dangling in the.
In the grasses, and that'swhere we really get to play.
We have a woodfired ovendown there, and that's
why I really love tobring in guest chefs too.
So if other chefs, a lot ofchefs don't get the opportunity.
(37:33):
Yeah, come onover, Steven, even.
That would be amazing.
We have all the datesready to go now.
I mean, I'd be down for Bentos.
Chef Steven Leu (37:42):
It sounds like.
Chef Kristen Schumaker (37:43):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So yeah, our websitewill continue.
We have great marketing team.
We're continuing to alsodevelop, you know, CPG products,
potentially getting some tomarket, really highlighting
some of the things that we doand edits that takes branding.
We're relationship buildingand, but I don't wanna end
this podcast without honoringthe agriculture team, the
(38:06):
crops and the livestock team.
We also have facilities who,as Steven knows, like things
break on a daily, so Yeah.
Yeah.
We have a team that will runto our service, so we can't
do what we do without them.
We have an admin,a whole admin team.
And so the farm stand, it's likeeveryone is working in tandem.
(38:29):
We'll have our, we'll haveour hard days, but I think we
all care about our mission.
So I just wanna honoreveryone else who
Host Mic (38:35):
works in the farm too.
So, and the last thing, I wannajust get your perspective.
When guests leave a CarnationFarms dinner, what's the
one feeling you hope theywill carry away with them?
Chef Kristen Schumaker (38:51):
I think hopefully they'll feel
the gratitude we have for thecommunity and the support and.
Us doing what we're bestat, connecting them to
the land and the source oftheir food, and really how
deeply we are connectedto each other in our food.
(39:11):
I'll say I wanna leave alasting impression on someone's
palate, but also someone'slike sense of gratitude and
in connection with others.
Host Michael Dug (39:19):
Oh, fantastic.
Beautiful.
Well, chef Shu, thankyou for being our guest.
Thank you.
Chef Kristen (39:24):
Thank you so much,
Host Michael Dugan (39:26):
Chef Steven.
Thanks for comingalong for the ride.
I'm Michael Dugan and I'm here
with my co-host, chef Steven.
On this episode ofVoice4Chefs, we sit down
with Chef Kristen WattsSchumacher, known as Chef Shu.
She is the culinary directorof Carnation Farms in
the Snoqualmie Valley outof Seattle, Washington.
From teaching to running theheirloom cook shop to leading
(00:23):
farm to table feast, herjourney is all about resilience,
community, and food without ego.
Chef Shu, welcometo Voice for Chefs.
Chef Kristen Schumaker (00:35):
Thank you so much for having me.
Welcome.
Thanks
Host Michael Dugan (00:38):
and welcome back, chef Steven.
Chef Steven (00:41):
Thank you Michael.
I'm super excited fortoday with Chef Kristin.
Let's kick it off.
Host Michael Dugan (00:46):
I wanna start out, chef Shu with.
We had a conversation nottoo long ago and you got
really excited about food andthe culinary arts and Yeah.
Where does that come from?
Like, is that in your childhood?
A lot of chefs that I talk toand that we talk to, you know,
it's, it always stems fromthere, like what is the origin?
Chef Kristen Schumaker (01:09):
Yeah.
I don't know if there'sanything specific to pinpoint
for my childhood, I would say.
Food and cooking for othersis my love language.
And so that's the way I showmy love and care for others.
And I put so much effortand emphasis on having
a meal together.
And I did start cooking probablyas a teenager for my friends.
(01:31):
And certainly I think lookingback, I'm like, I probably took
risks that I wasn't necessarilycomfortable with, but.
Yeah.
I think it's just the wayI show my love for others.
Chef Steven Leung (01:44):
Yeah.
that's awesome.
It's beautiful.
That's kind of how Istarted it too, Michael.
I invited friends Yeah.
To my house and then like cook.
Terribly tasted food.
yeah.
But then I, along theway, I got better.
And that you know, youget, you feed from that.
Yeah.
Host Michael Dugan (01:59):
I remember doing similar things.
I remember cooking for myparents, you know, and I was
living at home, having a reallyhard time kind of growing up
in the restaurant business.
And I remember.
Doing things likeflipping frozen peas
to learn how to saute.
Oh.
And they went all,all over the floor.
All over the kitchen floor.
(02:19):
I'd sweep 'em back up and Iput them in the pan because
we weren't gonna eat 'em.
So it turned out, and it cameout really tender and so I used
to love to cook with my momwhen I was going through cookie
school and things like that.
So we all kinda havethose interesting
origin stories, I think.
Yeah.
And it's part ofwhat makes us up.
(02:40):
What age do you think youwere when you thought.
That this was your calling,that you wanted to be a
chef, that you wanted tobe in the culinary arts,
Chef Kristen Schumaker (02:49):
I've always cooked as you do because
you have to feed yourselfand It sort of turned into
like a little bit of an extrahobby, meaning like I put
a little bit more time andeffort into thinking about it.
When I was in Chicago, in mytwenties, I would regularly
go to the farmer's marketsand it felt like I was home.
(03:09):
You know, it, it feltso good to explore.
The things, the fresh vegetablesand actually talk to the
people who are growing it.
I took a couple just consumercooking classes and one of
the classes we met at thefarmer's market, we picked some
things up, we went back to theplace and we made it up as we
went along and it lit me up.
(03:30):
That school is called theChopping Block in Chicago, and
their original location wasthis adorable historical little
house, and I still remember.
The details within that kitchen.
I remember the feelings Igot when I tasted something
new, when I was sharing food.
I just, so I would say inmy early twenties and I
(03:53):
just continued to think,oh, this is just my hobby.
I'm gonna make somemoney somehow, but yeah, I
gotta feed myself anyway.
And then I guess I hadalready moved to Seattle, but
I thought to myself, well.
I would go home and kind ofde-stress unwind by Uhhuh
running to the market andcooking for a couple hours,
(04:15):
which sounds probably likea chore for a lot of people,
but it would calm me downand yeah, sort of then I
realized I should probably.
Do this for a living.
So yeah I have the luxurythat I get to love what I do.
Host Michael Dugan (04:29):
And I see Steven nodding.
Were you doing that too, Steven?
Chef Steven Leung (04:33):
I'm nodding because I kind of,
you know, I never, I thoughtI was gonna be a chef.
I actually went to culinaryschool because I want
to, fulfill that the,my mom's, uh, wish of me
graduating from school.
Okay.
And then, uh, I think I became.
Like super passionateafter I felt that I was
good at it in school.
Chef Kristen Schumaker (04:53):
Yeah.
Chef Steven Leung (04:53):
After I was way older than
like a lot of kids.
Sure.
They were like twenties andI, oh, I attend when I was 23.
Okay.
So I wasn't like, as passionateas those kids watching, you
know cooking shows and foodchannels and stuff with all
the fancy quality returns.
I didn't know nothing.
Right.
You know, I was making,made fun of too, so that
pushed me to be better,
Host Michael Dugan (05:16):
okay.
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah.
Wow.
And so as you're kind of goingthrough this transformation,
this change and feeling thatpull to the culinary arts, what
would you say happened next?
Chef Kristen Schumaker (05:29):
Well, I was able to quit my full-time
job and go to culinary school.
I went to the SeattleCulinary Academy and, uh,
to honor my grandmother,her name is Sunshine.
She.
She funded the first fewquarters of culinary school
and allowed me to really,
Chef Steven L (05:47):
that's beautiful.
Chef Kristen Sch (05:47):
Put all, yeah.
Put all my efforts intolearning, and I said yes to
every volunteer opportunity.
I said yes to anything Icould to get more experience
and cooking on whether it'slike ships or catering jobs
or anything I just said yes.
So I think I leaned into it and.
(06:11):
I think that's where it started.
And then after culinaryschool, I just, I had sort
of like a non-traditional.
Trajectory, but it's gottento me where I wanna be.
Host Michael Dugan (06:20):
Well, let's take it up a little bit.
And so when you moved toSeattle you were cooking
in different restaurants.
Are there any thatyou wanna call out?
I'm curious because whichones did you work at?
I worked at a few myself.
Chef Kristen Schumaker (06:35):
Yeah.
One of my favorite places thatI worked in, I got a lot of
experience was Les Pichet,so that's in, in Belltown.
I think the staff photo isstill on the bathroom wall.
Oh, it looked like a ba a baby.
But, so I really got tolean into French cuisine and
technique and working in a,a tiny, very hot kitchen.
(06:57):
I also did.
It's a lot of catering jobsand cooking here and there and
saying yes to whatever I could.
Yeah.
Host Michael Dugan (07:04):
It's funny because I worked in a tiny.
Hot French kitchen too.
Called Le Courryard.
Oh.
And that's where Ifigured it all out.
You know everythingfrom scratch.
Yeah.
The foundation.
Yeah.
Steven.
The foundation.
All the different thingslike fileting salmon, you
know, from and deboningsalmon, deboning chickens
(07:25):
and ducks and yeah, makingcheesecakes and just being
in this small, intimate spacewhere you learn everything.
Yeah, like not a few things.
It's like everythingstart to finish.
Yeah.
And the foundation, I mean, I
Chef Kristen Schumaker (07:38):
still make a lot of those recipes.
I still make a Wow mean roastedchicken because of that place.
So,
Host Michael Dugan (07:46):
yeah.
and as you were kind ofgoing along that journey
then you ended up.
In Snoqualmie and tell usabout the heirloom cook shop,
because I know that lights youup when we talked about it
and I'd love for you to share.
Chef Kristen Schumaker (08:00):
I became a mother around those,
the earlier years moved toSnoqualmie, I was commuting to
the city to either Ballard orWest Seattle, which is about 45
minutes on a low traffic day.
And so having youngkids and needing to.
Be home by thetime bus got home.
That was really stressfuland hard and I, I didn't
(08:20):
feel like I was honoring themeither, so I was racing one
way and racing back and Ididn't feel like I was doing
anything at a hundred percent.
So I decided I want tostay in the community
where my kids' school was.
So if they needed to getpicked up from school,
I was five minutes away.
They were probably sixand eight ish at the time.
(08:42):
I worked with somefriends that really.
Boosted my confidenceabout how I can excel in
maybe being an entrepreneurand this friend just.
She helped me brainstormto then moving through the
process of designing a space.
So it happened that Ifound an old historic bank
(09:04):
in downtown Snoqualmie.
I did that Kickstarter,and so I had to put in
plumbing and electric.
The old bank vault wasmy pantry, and it really,
the building reallywasn't supposed to.
Be a restaurant.
I retrofitted it and
Host Michael Dugan (09:19):
Wow.
Chef Kristen Schumaker (09:21):
It was magical and it was the most
creative I think I'd ever been.
Host Michael Dugan (09:29):
Yeah.
What, how would you describe,like when, if you could paint
that picture for us, right?
For people that arelistening, how would you
describe what it was likewhen people were coming in?
To connect with you Yeah.
And to connect with thisvision that you had to
create this community, whichis what you really did.
Chef Kristen Schumaker (09:50):
Yeah.
I was so humbled.
So honored that I had, Icreated a space that fosters
that kind of connection.
Yeah.
I it fed my love forcollaboration because I. I
know I, I wanna collaborateand connect with people who
are also best at their craft.
(10:11):
I'm not, you know, I don'tmake wine, I don't make
beer, I don't make cheese,but there are people who
are best at those crafts.
And so if we cometogether and create a
community, it's, you know.
It's boundless.
So just like a place together,we hosted Friendsgiving and.
And rose tastings and classesand kids camps, and we had a
(10:34):
wedding in heirloom and wedecked it out for Christmas
and it just, it was a placethat people wanted to go.
And yeah I didn't really needany like social outlet outside
of my work because I got to seepeople all the time and it was.
Humbling, and I was superhonored to be able to
be part of that, thatSnoqualmie downtown.
Host Michael Dugan (10:57):
Yeah.
That's beautiful.
Steven, do youhave any questions?
Yeah, I in entrepreneur, Ithought this might resonate
Chef Ste (11:03):
with you a little bit.
No, actually yes.
I, what I just heard is like,I felt like motherhood really
reshaped your definition ofsuccess along the way, but, um.
Yeah.
About the, like thebusiness model, right?
You combine cookingclasses, Togo meals.
Yeah.
Brunches, retail,seasonal market.
Like how do you decide toinclude like all those layers?
(11:28):
Yeah.
I, one roof and like whatchallenges did you face?
Like management sucha di diverse you know?
Yeah.
Offerings.
Chef Kristen Schumaker (11:35):
Yeah, I went in I'm glad I was as naive
as I was, but I went in notknowing exactly what would, you
know, hit the ground running.
So I wanted to just diversifymy revenue and see what
people would come back to meand say, I really love this.
Let's have more of that.
And I have a lot ofconfidence in my flavors and
(11:56):
the food and the way I teach.
But it was also, you know, aback and forth with my guests,
everyone seemed to like it all.
So I think thatwas the challenge.
You know, I spent alot of time there.
The challenges that I think Ifaced was feeling like I was
actually attending businessschool by running a business.
(12:18):
Yeah, being an entrepreneur,I think I've always
had that spirit, but.
I don't think I knew howto read a p and L until
after I opened my business.
And then I realized like,okay, I actually took business
courses while I was doingthat just to hone in those
skills because just 'causeyou're really good at cooking
or any craft, that doesn'tmean you're good at math.
(12:40):
So I had to, yeah, and itfelt like swimming upstream a
little bit, like learning thoseskills, but I'm so glad I did.
And of course.
The hardest challengeof them all is staffing.
Chef (12:51):
Staffing, training, staff retention, culture building.
Host Michael Dugan (12:56):
yeah.
How did you navigate it?
How did you keeppeople motivated?
Yeah.
Because you can't pay'em that much, right?
So they gotta be intothe craft, right?
Chef Kristen Schumaker (13:05):
Yes.
They had to be in the craft.
Either they were friendsof mine that absolutely
supported what I was doing.
I had a friend who took ahiatus from her job for six
months, and she wanted tospend her time at Heirloom.
I brought on interns andstudents, and I have to
tell you, and Steven, youmentioned it before, I really
(13:27):
enjoyed, in particular thewomen that were mothers,
because mothers kind of.
They get it done.
Chef Steven Leung (13:35):
Yeah.
Wow.
they
Chef Kristen Schumaker (13:35):
They have that sense of urgency.
Yeah.
And I think that theyunderstand, they understood like
where I was coming from as well.
I also had a lot of volunteers,which was incredible.
The support was incredible.
So people would wanna volunteer.
I had a dear friendwho was on the.
Police force and Fridays,he would come and cook at
(13:56):
heirloom because that wasexactly opposite of what
he did on his daily basis,and it filled his cup
Chef Steven Leung (14:03):
wow.
Chef Krist (14:03):
That's really great.
Chef Steven Leung (14:05):
That's a beautiful angle to look at
it like mothers get thingsdone yeah, what a tagline.
Chef Kristen Schumaker (14:10):
I think I need to make sure it's right.
Yeah.
Host Michael Dugan (14:14):
Oh my gosh.
What about the.
The funding project?
How would you describe what itfeels like when you get that
funding from the community?
I mean that's what, 20,000,something like that?
Chef Kristen S (14:26):
I max it 25,000.
25. The thing with Kickstarteris if you don't reach your goal.
It all gets given back.
Host Michael Dugan (14:34):
Okay.
Chef Kris (14:34):
So it was terrifying.
Host Michael Dugan (14:36):
Oh my gosh.
Chef (14:38):
And I think you, I did not
Host Michael Dugan (14:38):
know that.
Wow.
Yes.
Chef Kristen Schumaker (14:40):
And I think you have 30 days.
So you have a timeline.
Yeah.
And you have a goalthat you have to reach.
And so yeah, it wasvery nerve wracking.
You know, you're checkingthat level every day.
But a lot of peoplesupported me and it was.
And this sense ofaccountability, I felt to
them I just wanted to do mybest and Like I said, I had
(15:00):
a lot of confidence in myflavors and my food and my
ability to entertain, butcould I do it on this scale?
I had to ask for that moneyfirst before I put in the
plumbing and electric and thewow in the tile and the floor.
And so I also borrowed a lotof money for myself and I'm, I.
You know, I bet onmy own self and,
Host Michael Dugan (15:21):
Yeah.
Chef Kristen Sc (15:22):
I'm glad I did.
Host Michael Dugan (15:24):
Yeah, it's a great, it's a great inspiring
story for entrepreneurs,especially for entrepreneurs
in the culinary industry.
Yeah.
Chef Steven Leung (15:32):
Yeah, because I know there's a. A
data rate of, failures with,like chefs opening a restaurant
because all they want to dois to show off their skill,
put everything they knowand it's all over the place.
It doesn't have a theme.
And yeah, and eventuallywith like, uh, not knowing
how to manage the P&Land stuff like that, and.
(15:53):
Yeah.
60% plus failure rate.
Chef (15:57):
It was a hard and fast few years of learning, but I
have so much gratitude for it.
Host Michael Dugan (16:04):
Yeah.
So as we move on fromheirloom, now we're moving
into Carnation Farms.
Chef Kristen Schumaker (16:10):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Host Michae (16:11):
What was that like?
What was that invite liketo be part of how did
that transition happen?
Chef Kristen Schumaker (16:17):
Well, the interview process was like.
Two months long and Wow.
Eight different interviews.
And then it, the culminationwas me putting on a farm
dinner for the board.
Oh my gosh.
Nerve wracking.
I guess it was moreabout, I know it was more
about selling myself.
I knew the food I was puttingin front of them was delicious.
(16:37):
I still love what I served, butthen it was about this selling
myself of what else can I do?
What else am I capable of?
And I think I've alreadyexceeded what my job role.
I like challenges.
Uh, I get to yeah, meeta lot of different people
and yeah, it was great.
Host Michael Dugan (16:56):
Did your role start out as the
culinary director or did youstart at a different place
and then work into that role?
Chef Kristen Schumaker (17:03):
Culinary operations and also education,
they wanted to make sure thatI was interested in doing
the educational aspect ofCarnation Farms within my role.
I think that's still growing.
And it's still happening.
I like I said, I'velearned so much more.
Um, yeah, I feel like I'mgoing to business school again.
(17:24):
Now I'm gettingmy MBA Wow again,
Host Michael (17:26):
that's fantastic.
What was it that reallydrew you to Carnation Farms?
Because, you know, my wifeand I attended one of the
farm to table meals and itwas incredible, just the
whole experience, but yeah.
But to work there.
Yeah.
And to be part ofthat what drew you in?
Chef Kris (17:44):
When I originally got hired, I was a staff person
of one in my kitchen.
Okay.
Oh my gosh.
Um, shortly, very shortly,I hired Chef Kristen.
She's, we call her Chef kb.
And what I think, and maybe Ididn't know at the time, and you
probably can relate when you'recoming around that bend and
you see that vast field . Youcan see that treeline Street
(18:07):
and you see these historicwhite barns with red roofs.
They're just, it speaks to you.
Oh yeah.
it's very difficult todescribe it unless you've
been there the vastness,the lushness of the space.
I think what drew me.
(18:27):
I think it was thejob description and
what it all entailed.
I did feel like it wasa challenge from where
I had been before.
But I liked the directionthey were going in the
regenerative farm principles.
That then I can, you know,I, I then created principles
for my kitchen and how.
All of those principles sortof reflect how we're doing
(18:50):
and how our mission is.
And so I think that's whatdrew me to the farm initially
was that mission and thatwhat they were hoping to.
To get outta me.
Host Michael Dugan (19:00):
Steven, you got anything there?
I just wanna kind oftag team a little bit.
Chef Stev (19:04):
No, that's beautiful.
But I actually have a questionabout the cooking classes
because Oh yeah, for sure.
Yeah, because like, uh, didyou start the cooking classes
just to bring an extra streamof income to the revenue?
What goals do you wanna reachby hosting cooking classes?
Chef (19:19):
Yeah, I think it was just another market to, to
connect with as consumers.
Some people are farmstand consumers.
Some people come to farmdinners, some people buy
beef, or lamb shares, or CSAs.
This was a way to get peopleto the farm physically and.
(19:40):
Cooking's a lost art, so I'vealways enjoyed teaching, and so
I brought that along with me.
It wasn't certainly arequirement for me to get
hired, but I think theyappreciated my interest in
doing that and continuing that.
Initially the classes were.
Definitely leaning towardsthe home cook, like preserving
(20:00):
the season or cheese makingat home or now we've gotten
into butchery and some morehigh technical skill work and
certainly that pool of customersis smaller than someone who
just wants to learn how to bake.
And so I think there's a spacefor everything and everyone
has a different skill level.
(20:21):
Yeah, I think.
It turns out that the peoplewho go to the class felt
that connection and allof a sudden they now wanna
come to a farm dinner.
I love it.
Oh my gosh.
And once you go to afarm dinner, you're like,
oh, I didn't realize Ican also get this fennel
salt in the farm stand.
I'm gonna sign up for theCSA because you get a kitchen
added value product every time.
So it's, I love that.
Yeah.
Chef Steven Leung (20:40):
It's very resourceful for
the whole picture.
I think.
Yeah.
and I was inspired byyou telling, you know.
Teaching how to make cheeseat home and stuff like that.
It inspired me to think aboutan idea is there's a lot of like
simple sauces, uh, foundationsauces that, uh, home cooks
can prep and make at home.
Just like we can usehealthy ingredients to
(21:02):
make ketchup instead ofbuying, you know, all right.
Processed.
You know?
Yeah.
Foods that are.
Killing us and stufflike that, right?
Chef Kristen Schumaker (21:09):
Yeah.
Well, and for people who enjoythat craft of making things, I
mean, obviously there's peoplewho find it to be a chore, and
that's not Where they're gonna,that's not what they value.
Yeah.
But people who actually love,well, I would say cooking
is their love language too.
It's like putting inthat time and effort
preserving and canning.
I mean, I love it.
And so there's definitely.
(21:31):
Especially here in Seattleland area, people really are
getting interested and careabout where their food is and
they have so much abundance.
Host Michael Dugan (21:38):
Yeah.
So, yeah.
That's amazing.
I just, yeah, just evenbeing connected to the land
around you and the farmersand making that full circle.
Right.
Yeah.
Sometimes you go out to eat andwe don't think about where it
comes from or how it comes from.
Yeah.
But it's really powerful.
(21:59):
So I wanna get to a littlebit that what really inspired
me personally to connectwith you was actually my
wife, because we were sitting
Chef Kristen S (22:08):
tell her thanks.
Host Michael Dugan (22:09):
Oh my gosh.
But we were sitting atthis incredible feast in
the field, I think it wascalled Feast in the Field.
I know you have differentones and oh my gosh, we're
around all these peoplethat are so passionate about
food, so passionate aboutfarming, so passionate about.
This concept, and we'd neverexperienced this before.
Oh.
And we just signed up and itwas like she signed me up and
(22:31):
I was so excited and it, Ijust was like, I'll probably
meet a really cool chef.
And sure enough, there you are.
But she's sitting there going,you should interview Kristen.
And I'm like, I know.
I know.
I already know.
I'm gonna go reach out toher and see what she says.
and you were just glowing,you were like on this
high that it's, yeah.
(22:52):
It's hard to describe, butyou were so in your niche.
Yeah.
Completely in your elementwith the food, with
the conversations, withthe connection to the
communities and bridgingeverything together.
And it's so powerful because,you know, chefs, I feel like
a lot of chefs have a realstruggle with communicating.
(23:14):
They have a real strugglewith, you know, they're in the
kitchen and then they gottago out and speak to people
in the dining room or in thecommunity or whatever that is.
And I'm a huge advocatefor Toastmasters.
People hear it on mypodcast all the time 'cause
that's how I launched thispodcast and getting over
that imposter syndrome.
But I see you up thereand I see you describing
(23:36):
the dishes to us and.
You could just feel it comingfrom really deep inside you
how this connection happened.
Yeah.
That's nice of you.
Thank you.
Well, it was so powerful tome because I feel that way and
I know Chef Steven does too.
'cause we've had theseconversations and it's just.
(23:58):
It's really special.
But what I would love foryou to share is what is it
like to experience that?
What do people comeback and tell you?
Or can you just walk usthrough really quick?
What is it like to walkinto Carnation Farms and
attend Feast in the field?
Yeah.
I think it connects theconsumer from our community
(24:21):
directly to the land,the animals, the people.
I was wanted to honor allthe hands That it took
to put, I love that, putthat meal on the table.
So it, the sense of connection,it's easy for me to talk about
what we do at Carnation andwhat we're cooking and how we're
inspired because we're sort of,we're around it all the time.
(24:44):
There is no, there isnothing fake about it.
Like I Right.
I'm ordering produce fromdirectly to the director of
regenerative agriculture.
My coworker Eric Pop, I'llcall him up and say, I need
this harvested for Friday.
And I mean, my God, thosecherry tomatoes coming off the
vine right now are like candy.
(25:04):
It's just, you are talkingabout that.
Oh my gosh.
Oh my
Chef Kristen Schumaker (25:06):
God.
I, you know, it,that makes it easy.
And I, I think honoringanimals is also.
I'm such an animal lover,but I'm also not a vegan,
so I make sure I am part ofthe process of I've seen
them birthed at the farm.
And I've also seen themharvested and yeah, I can
(25:27):
honor that animal fully.
We even know its name.
And so, yeah, I think it,it makes it easy for me
to talk about what we'redoing because it's real.
Yeah.
And I really, truly believein their mission and, you
know, regenerative practices.
It's not a new concept.
It's actually an old concept.
(25:48):
And we're just, it's notinnovative for us to try
and like do less, addless chemicals to the
soil or even less tillage.
Like that's an old concept.
We're just, we're trying tofigure out ways to do it better.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
It takes a huge amountof people and a lot of
passion to do it, so
Host Michael Dugan (26:13):
Chef Shu.
I wanted to move along anddescribe our experience of
Feast in the Forest and talka little bit about the menu.
Start out with a steakbite, which was from the
beef short loin, and it wasreally tender and delicious.
(26:38):
Came with garlic scapesand chimi, and then
tall fried potato.
The black cod was so tender,the texture was incredible.
With the watercresscreamy shallot Vinagrette.
And the greens came fromthe farm, and the next
dish was braised lamb.
(26:59):
It was a lamb shoulder ishow Chef Shu described it
with some pasta and oh, thesmoked tomato and chili pepper
relish was incredible, likethe flavors and the intensity.
And then she finished offwith a strawberry ice cream.
(27:20):
And it had a hazelnut prelean, and the hot fudge
was really good withstrawberry whipped cream.
The whole meal was amazing.
Chef Shu.
Chef Kristen Schumaker (27:32):
The sablefish that dish I had.
I was bursting outta myseams trying to like, tell
people where this came from.
Host Michael Dugan (27:39):
Yeah.
Chef Kri (27:40):
Chef KB had a contact.
They, it's afisher, it's a boat.
And it's called You arewhat You eat Fish Company.
Oh, nice.
And so she had worked withthem in the past and she
said, this family's wonderful.
The product is spectacular.
Let's put it on our menu.
And so in, in the kitchen,in my kitchen, I gather
(28:01):
everyone, whether they're.
New.
Or if they've been, you know,in culinary school or if they've
been at the farm for years.
Like, we come togetherand we write menus because
that's what inspires us.
And so we I give peoplethe opportunity to, you
know, I'm not just gonnasay, here's the menu and
this is what we're doing.
Like, wanna see what otherpeople are inspired and what
(28:23):
are their first thing we do islook at what's coming outta the.
The fields at our own farm,and we talk about what's our
inventory for our lamb and beef?
What can we highlight?
What can we show off?
And then outside our farm,it's what other farms can
we collaborate and showoff and tell their story.
We can tell the storyof the fishing boat.
(28:45):
We can tell the story aboutfarms among us who provided the
edible flowers or the herbs.
And so I think it's, you know.
Sharing knowledge, but I'malso, I always have that
sense of curiosity aboutwhat other people can do
and how we put it together.
I think at Dish, I'm noteven sure if I remember.
(29:06):
It's okay.
Host Michael (29:08):
It was really big.
The
Chef Kr (29:09):
perfection, I remember.
Host Michael Dugan (29:10):
I just know that I loved everything.
We don't drink alcohol, so, youknow, it's kind of expensive
when you're pairing withalcohols, but we came for the
food and the experience andeverything else, and yeah,
it was, yeah, it was amazing.
Chef Kristen Schumaker (29:22):
Well, and even now, in particular, the
feasts in the field, we it'sa flat rate because We want to
curate non-alcoholic beveragesalong with that food, along
with wine or beer or anythingfrom distilleries, right.
Because.
It's equally as creative.
Making beverages isactually really fun.
I love it.
(29:43):
Oh, cool.
We have put a lot ofeffort and time into
those pairings as well.
just because you don'tdrink wine doesn't mean
you shouldn't have a
Host Michael Dugan (29:52):
Yeah.
Drink.
So I. You know, it's funny'cause I'll go out to a bar
and I'm like, do you haveanything non-alcoholic?
And the first thing theycome up with is like, odos
or some, you know, right.
Non-alcoholic beer.
I'm like, I don't want that.
I just want know ginger beer.
Right.
I love ginger beer.
I do.
So, and when it'smade from scratch in
a brewery, oh my gosh.
(30:12):
Knock your socks off.
Okay.
So as we go along now.
The other things I'm thinkingabout, one of the things I
love that you told me, I washaving a conversation and
Chef Steven, you know herchef Abby, who's in Alaska
right now, incredible person.
She's such an advocate formental health, and we were
having a conversation about how.
(30:35):
In some places she wasn'ttreated very well, you know?
And she struggled withthat, but she's very strong
and you're like, there'sno ego in my kitchen.
Can you share what thatmeans to you and how
you lead in that way?
Chef Kristen Schumaker (30:47):
Yeah.
To me, the focus is on the food.
The story the sort ofstewardship of our farm.
And it's a team effort and.
I'm never gonna sayI've, I'm done learning.
I'm never gonna say I'veknown every, I know every
combination of food andfood flavors and I'm done.
(31:09):
You know?
Right.
That's never gonna happen.
Everyone comes with a differentbackground and skill and
honestly, a sense of curiosityand also like childhood
experiences, like, it just,there's, that's close-minded
to, to think that you havenothing else to learn.
And so I really.
(31:29):
Emphasize sort ofteam practices.
And at the farm we, we havecore values as a farm, and
then we're gonna have a corevalues as in our own team
and our own culinary mission.
So we're sort of movingtowards our goals together
instead of individually and.
(31:51):
Yeah.
I don't like that ego.
I don't, I think everyonedeserves respect.
Everyone wasworking really hard.
Everyone's working longhours and they're here
because they're passionate.
'cause why else would you do it?
Right?
You portray yourself.
No.
Host Michael Dugan (32:06):
There's a chef, Melissa Miranda,
and she goes by Mel.
In my opinion, she brought hercuisine to life here in Seattle.
She's incredible.
Yeah.
The, you know, thePhilippine culture.
The Philippine cuisine, but.
(32:28):
I don't know if you know, butshe has a TED Talk and what I
loved about this TED talk isthat she talked about a lot of
chefs think they're big C butwhat they should be is little c.
Yeah.
And it was a very powerful 15,probably 15 minute Ted talk.
Um, I've listened
Chef Kristen Schumaker (32:48):
to it.
It's magnificent.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I do think so as theculinary director to me.
I am in a service position Tothe people who work for me.
I wanna make sure theyhave what they need.
Their station is setphysically, their mind is ready.
they feel appreciated.
(33:10):
So I am of service to themto make sure they have
what they need to do, whatI'm asking them to do.
And so.
That's why I'm always fillingin, you know, if I, if they are
feeling like they're drowningin tasks, like I'll step in
and I want them to know thatthey can ask me or rely on
me for that if they have to.
Host Michael Dugan (33:34):
Yeah, I think it's really powerful.
And I also know that ChefSteven's philosophy on
leadership was very similarwhen we had a conversation.
In Clubhouse a couple years ago.
I was really impressedwith how he managed and
led and it was very similarto your philosophy, which
Chef Steven Leung (33:51):
yeah I agree with love what, uh, chef said,
because I feel like, yeah, wewere all, we're all here for
one passion, and then everyone'strying to be their best self.
We're in a positionto help them.
And so I was saying whenI create recipes, I don't
make it too complicated withhow many grams of water.
I always use volume becauseI feel like the easier you
(34:14):
make the task is the morepassionate I the more,
uh, a sense of successfulfulfillment for the staff and
they would be self-motivatedto come to work every day
and feel good about it.
Chef Kristen Schumaker (34:27):
Yeah.
I've never thoughtabout it that way.
Yeah.
Host Michael Dugan (34:30):
And then, you know, as we wrap up, is
there anyone that really helpedyou along in your journey
that you'd like to sharejust a minute or two about?
Because you know, for me,there are so many, but every
once in a while somebodyreally stands out for me.
Chef Kristen Schumaker (34:46):
There's probably a lot of people I know.
I wish I could name them all.
This is, it might soundcliche, but I'm really
grateful to my own kids.
There are 15 and.
Almost 18 now, and they'veseen my trajectory from, you
know, when they were very youngto what my work ethic and my
(35:09):
dreams and what I go after.
And I hope that I'm a, anexample to them for that.
I think they keep me, theykept me pretty rooted.
Maybe when I wanted to addone more cooking class,
but I was like, you know, Ihave to remember I also have
another job, which is them.
And so I'm, I will sayI'm pretty grateful for
(35:35):
the pure feedback theygive me when I don't
make something perfect.
Believe me, they'll tell me,but yeah, I just, I feel like.
We've been on thisjourney together.
Host Michael Dugan (35:44):
Yeah.
Nice.
Yeah, that's fantastic.
The last thing, well,there's one or two things,
but I know you just had.
A planning meeting.
Can you tell us about someof the events that are
coming up and how we canconnect with you, how people
that are listening in theSeattle area or maybe they're
traveling to Seattle, theycan find out more about, yeah.
Chef Kristen Schumaker (36:08):
Here's our plug carnation farms.org.
We our website should haveall of our events on there
that, that are coming up.
We did just have a 2026planning meeting and so
we'll have farm dinners.
I. Markets, spring market,holiday market plant sales.
We have history tours.
(36:28):
We've got popups at thefarm stand, and this is
across the whole farm.
This is not justculinary department.
We host barn dancesthat are very popular.
But the farm dinners are reallywhat's like dear to my heart.
We have a lot, we're super.
We are so lucky to have theinfrastructure we have, and it's
rooted in history, but we'vegot a renovated dining room
(36:52):
that's attached to a teachingkitchen and that'll host 40 and
it's intimate and beautiful.
The best view on the,in the farm, we call
it farm view kitchen.
Um, then we have another spacethat we can host up to 400, or
we have a. An outdoor space.
We renovated an oldtennis court and put a
tent over it and now it'swhere you had your meal.
(37:13):
Yeah.
And then my very favoritedinners are feasts in the
field where they're down.
Your feet are sortof dangling in the.
In the grasses, and that'swhere we really get to play.
We have a woodfired ovendown there, and that's
why I really love tobring in guest chefs too.
So if other chefs, a lot ofchefs don't get the opportunity.
(37:33):
Yeah, come onover, Steven, even.
That would be amazing.
We have all the datesready to go now.
I mean, I'd be down for Bentos.
Chef Steven Leu (37:42):
It sounds like.
Chef Kristen Schumaker (37:43):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So yeah, our websitewill continue.
We have great marketing team.
We're continuing to alsodevelop, you know, CPG products,
potentially getting some tomarket, really highlighting
some of the things that we doand edits that takes branding.
We're relationship buildingand, but I don't wanna end
this podcast without honoringthe agriculture team, the
(38:06):
crops and the livestock team.
We also have facilities who,as Steven knows, like things
break on a daily, so Yeah.
Yeah.
We have a team that will runto our service, so we can't
do what we do without them.
We have an admin,a whole admin team.
And so the farm stand, it's likeeveryone is working in tandem.
(38:29):
We'll have our, we'll haveour hard days, but I think we
all care about our mission.
So I just wanna honoreveryone else who
Host Mic (38:35):
works in the farm too.
So, and the last thing, I wannajust get your perspective.
When guests leave a CarnationFarms dinner, what's the
one feeling you hope theywill carry away with them?
Chef Kristen Schumaker (38:51):
I think hopefully they'll feel
the gratitude we have for thecommunity and the support and.
Us doing what we're bestat, connecting them to
the land and the source oftheir food, and really how
deeply we are connectedto each other in our food.
(39:11):
I'll say I wanna leave alasting impression on someone's
palate, but also someone'slike sense of gratitude and
in connection with others.
Host Michael Dug (39:19):
Oh, fantastic.
Beautiful.
Well, chef Shu, thankyou for being our guest.
Thank you.
Chef Kristen (39:24):
Thank you so much,
Host Michael Dugan (39:26):
Chef Steven.
Thanks for comingalong for the ride.
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