Today, I spoke with Jason Pack, author of the acclaimed book ‘Libya and the Global Enduring Disorder’, and a recognised expert on the Middle East. Jason also hosts the excellent Disorder podcast and serves as a senior analyst for emerging challenges at the NATO college in Rome. With over two decades of research in the Middle East, Jason brings a unique perspective to understanding the complexities of the region’s geopolitics.
This is Jason’s second appearance on the show. We first spoke back in May of 22, in Episode 55. That time, we explored Jason’s excellent book and his concept of the Global Enduring Disorder. You can listen to that episode here. Today, Jason joins me to discuss the recent escalation of violence in the Middle East, how it relates to the idea of the Global Enduring Disorder and what we might need to consider when looking for an enduring and just peace in the region.
00:00 Introduction to Jason Pack
- Jason discusses his background and the relevance of his work in current global affairs.
- Jason shares his transition from studying to focusing on Middle East geopolitics post-9/11, including his experiences in Beirut, Egypt, Syria, and Libya.
06:20 The Concept of Global Enduring Disorder and Orderers vs Disorderers
- Jason explains his concept of 'Global Enduring Disorder', contrasting the current global landscape with the past, focusing on the shift from order to disorder.
- Jason proposes a perspective to view global politics as a struggle between forces of order and disorder, expanding beyond traditional ideological divides.
13:15 The Impact of American Foreign Policy in the Middle East
- An Analysis of the influence and consequences of American hegemony in the Middle East, particularly regarding the Israel-Palestine conflict.
15:15 Interconnected Global Conflicts
- Jason discusses how various global conflicts, including the Israel-Palestine issue, are interconnected and influence each other.
- Exploring the involvement of Russia and Iran in fostering global disorder, including their potential roles in the Israel-Palestine conflict.
23:05 The Three Blocks of Middle East Geopolitics
- Jason categorises the Middle Eastern geopolitical landscape into three distinct groups, focusing on their respective roles and alliances.
25:56 The Pivotal Role of Qatar in Middle Eastern Peace
- Jason discusses Qatar's unique position in the Middle East and its potential role in bringing peace and stability to the region.
33:15 The Middle East Peace Process: A New Approach
- Exploring a novel approach to the Middle East peace process, involving regional players and addressing underlying causes.
39:10 Addressing Root Causes of the Israel-Palestine Conflict
- Discussion about the necessity of addressing the underlying causes of the Israel-Palestine conflict, including the creation of a Palestinian state and the role of external influences.
42:15 The Complexity of the Israel-Gaza Conflict in Global Perception
- Jason delves into the reasons behind the global attention on the Israel-Gaza conflict, highlighting the unique position of Jews and Israel in global dynamics and the disproportionate global response to the conflict.
52:38 The Potential of Qatar in Resolving Middle East Conflicts
- Jason reiterates the strategic importance of Qatar in bringing peace to the region, emphasising its unique position as a mediator among various conflicting parties.
55:09 The Influence of Gulf States in Global and Regional Politics
- Jason discusses the growing influence of Gulf states like the UAE and Qatar in global and regional politics, highlighting their roles in funding, cultural influence, and diplomacy.
01:02:14 Closing Thoughts: Challenges and Hope for Middle East Peace
- Jason concludes with his thoughts on the ongoing challenges in achieving peace in the Middle East and the potential for a new approach involving Gulf states to bring stability to the region.
Resources:
- The Road to Middle East Peace Runs Through Doha, Foreign Policy: https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/11/07/qatar-israel-hamas-gaza-war-middle-east-peace/
- Episode 55. Jason Pack - On the ’Global Enduring Disorder: https://thevoicesofwar.com/55-jason-pack-on-the-global-enduring-disorder/
- Jon Wiener Podcast on plan to end war in Gaza:
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