March 17, 2025 • 24 mins
Effective Parenting as a Marital Team :: [Ep. 260]
In this enlightening episode, we delve into the intersection of parenting challenges and marital harmony. We are exploring how the complexities of raising children can strain even the strongest union.
Struggles in marriage can often surface from parenting decisions that can divide couples instead of uniting them. Tackling multiple issues faced by parents, we share insights drawn from biblical teachings on marriage and raising children.
We are talking about the following:
- Importance of a unified marriage for effective parenting
- Common parenting disagreements and their impact on relationships
- Seeking God's guidance in discussions around parenting
- The lasting impressions of parental relationships on children
- Elevating marriage over parenting as a priority
- Redefining the perception of "lazy" behavior in parents to a deeper marital misunderstanding
Tune in for a message filled with hope, encouragement, and practical insights that can transform the way couples approach parenting and strengthen their bond. Let’s work towards healing and inspiring each other while building a legacy of love and faith!
For episode transcripts, click HERE.
For more marriage encouragement, visit: www.VowsToKeep.com | V2K Blog | Marriage Counseling | Insta | FB
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Vows to Keep Radio with David and Tracy
Sellers.
The mission of Vows to Keep isto help couples develop a
biblically healthy marriagethrough the application of God's
Word and a deeper relationshipwith Him.
They desire to help you andyour spouse grow closer to each
other and closer to the heart ofGod's design for your marriage.
Now here's David and Tracy withtoday's broadcast.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
We are David and Tracy Sellers and, like you,
we've made vows to keep.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Today we're talking about the marital wildcard kids.
Kids are the byproduct of whatwe do in marriage.
Kids are the first witness tothe way that a marriage either
glorifies God or flat outdoesn't.
What do you think, trace, forthe sake of breaking this down
into buckets, should we try totackle, like the top three or
four things?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Probably the most common would have to be we just
don't agree on parenting issues.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
I've felt it, you've heard it the kids are just
wearing us down.
Our marriage is sufferingbecause of it, or my spouse is a
lazy parent.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
And finally, the top four has got to be rounded out
with this one.
This marriage is tearing medown and now it's affecting our
kids.
It's time to end it all.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
We know there are more, but these are the biggies.
These are the big questions.
Without God's word there are noeasy answers To help a hurting
marriage.
We need to be knowledgeable onwhat the word of God says about
these issues.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
A husband came to me sharing how his wife was raised
to believe that drinking was asin.
Out of respect for her, hedidn't drink, but a day was
coming where he knew he had toteach his kids about this topic.
The problem, though, was hedidn't agree with her view.
For years, they avoided thistopic.
She was firm on her belief andhe didn't want to disturb the
(01:42):
peace.
Maybe you can relate.
What do you and your spousedisagree on?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
For example, I was a picky eater growing up.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
And I was someone who ate whatever was put in front
of me and would have beendisciplined for the slightest
bit of complaining.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
So how will we raise our kids?
As a mom?
I'm the one that feeds themmost of the time.
Maybe I think I should get todecide.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
In counseling we've seen the confusion it creates
for the kids of couples who havedifferent expectations.
The kids cozy up to whomeverhas the rules that they like and
they complain about the one whohas the rules that they don't
like Rules like this.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Where does God's word say thou shalt eat thine
broccoli?
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Both of these topics, the drinking as well as the
food.
They're valid questions andwe've actually heard this from
many real families, includingour own.
To help a hurting marriage,you've got to go to God's word
with that person who is talkingto you about these challenges.
You might have an opinion, butcan I ask you, can I compel you,
to just let your own opinionactually be shaped by God's word
(02:44):
?
See, the thing is, is the rules, the thoughts we have on things
are so temporary and manyparents fight about the letter
of their own laws that thingsare going to enforce in their
house.
Then they march right past theintent of God's.
As parents, our purpose shouldbe to prepare our kids for a
life outside our home.
That day is coming where ouropinion as parents isn't really
(03:06):
going to matter that much, andwe have to be so careful not to
make little Pharisees, littlerule followers, out of our
children while they're withinour home.
Success isn't kids who followyour every word.
Success is kids with thefreedom to choose, seeing the
fruit of that obedience to God'sword and choosing to do that
for themselves.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
I grew up in a home where my mom made a meal for the
family and then she made a mealfor me.
It was great, but in hindsightit really wasn't so great.
As a kid, going to otherpeople's houses, I insulted
their cooking, really withouteven knowing it, and that was
fine by me.
But really, Philippians chaptertwo was totally lost on me the
(03:47):
part where it says do nothingout of selfish ambition or vain
conceit, but rather in humility.
Value others above yourselves,not looking to your own
interests, but each of you tothe interests of others.
Selflessness isn't taught bywords.
It's taught in being deniedsomething for the purpose of
loving another.
I didn't learn it really untilI was an adult and that lesson
(04:09):
was humbling.
My parents thought they werebeing giving to me, but I dare
say they were taking the easyway out with me.
They didn't want to fight me,so I ruled issues like this as a
little kid.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
The Bible has a lot to say about drinking alcohol.
We talked about that.
Let's go read it for yourselves.
In Leviticus, numbers,deuteronomy, judges, proverbs,
isaiah, the scripture does notactually say that a Christian
can't consume alcohol.
What God commands is Christiansregarding avoiding being drunk,
and you'll find that inEphesians and Proverbs,
(04:41):
christians are also commandednot to allow their body to be
mastered by anything, andclearly drinking alcohol in
excess is something that notonly does that but also can be
very addictive.
So in light of these verses,god's word is making it pretty
clear Getting drunk is notsomething God is okay with.
But I think it's also hard tosay that a Christian can
(05:03):
universally say that alldrinking is a sin.
Do you see what we've done here?
It's no longer about heropinion or his opinion.
God's word speaks very plainly.
I've not met an issue yet thatwe couldn't find answers within
the pages of the Bible.
Getting on the same page is asdifficult and as simple as
researching in the pages ofGod's word is as difficult and
as simple as researching in thepages of God's Word.
(05:24):
So when you want to helphurting marriage, the goal isn't
to strengthen someone's opinionby adding your own two cents.
It's about teaching them how touse God's Word to redefine
their opinion.
Tracy, you talked about theparent who might come in just
worn down from all the stressesof being a parent.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Yeah, it's that second category.
Parents who put off the hardwork today pay a much higher
price as their children getolder.
My picky eating journey is justone small example.
I'm living proof.
The older a person gets, theharder change becomes.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
Kids neglected from the real hard work of discipline
, from real discipleship.
Well, they become adults withproblems that they bear with
them.
Parenting clearly isn't forwimps, and how we're parented
often shapes our ownexpectations, sometimes
incorrectly.
It can be so easy to beoverwhelmed because of those
expectations.
(06:18):
So here comes someone,overwhelmed by the struggles of
parenting.
They're burying their soul,their fears.
They're showing how burned outthey are.
They feel weak.
If you want to help them, yourfirst question needs to be how
is your marriage faring with allof this?
Now, why would that be a goodquestion?
Well, the Lord tells us we'reto train up our children and
(06:39):
raise them for the Lord.
We're going to dig into this injust a minute.
But the Lord also says amarriage is to draw near to God
and to each other, to becomethat one flesh.
So how do we become one fleshif we neglect our marriage and
how do we help our kidsunderstand that one flesh
principle as well?
To help a hurting marriage?
(07:00):
You might find you're going tohave to ask some questions that
go against the grain of ourculture.
Many parents, and thus theirmarriages, are actually failing
from disbelief that God's way toparent and to do marriage could
ever work.
This makes the stakes very high, not only for future
generations, but the marriagesthat surround those children.
(07:21):
Today, the world has made beinga parent the most important
thing we could ever do, andsimultaneously it has devalued
God's design for marriage.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
So the second question you want to ask a
parent in hardship is have youmade your relationships with
your children too important?
We hear it said in casualconversation all the time my
kids are my number one becausemy husband hey, he can take care
of himself, my kids can't.
But the truth is, this neverends well.
These are the same people whowill invest to no end for their
(07:55):
kids' sports schedules and willdo everything they can to make
their kids' day as streamlinedas possible, but their marriage,
meanwhile, looks like aroommate situation.
God gives us priority order inthese things for a reason, and
God has given them an ally intheir life.
The problem is, sometimes wetreat our marriage as dead
weight, and a marriage inneglect is a parent in survival
(08:17):
mode.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
So could God be putting you in the life of a
struggling parent who's now alsoa struggling spouse.
To share truth, to bringlong-standing positive change
into a child's life, that parentneeds to be on a godly given
mission, and it starts inGenesis 2.24, where we see this
picture of the marriage bondthat God describes.
(08:41):
It says Therefore, a man shallleave his father and mother and
be joined to his wife, and theyshall become one flesh.
Two becoming one in marriageactually involves uniting two
whole and separate people into anew, god-designed, god-purposed
life.
Their first mission has to be amission for two to become one
(09:02):
Now as a unified pair.
They're then up to the task ofparenting.
This burned out feeling that wehave can be a great indication
that what we've been doing isn'tworking.
Now most people will reasonablyagree that if they were both on
the same page, both on the sameparenting mission, it would be
easier, it would be better.
(09:22):
The problem is that they don'trealize it actually starts by
working on the same marriagemission first.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
I love how God made man and woman in his image and
he made marriage to reflect thisundeserved love to someone in
need.
God made training up a child anoutpouring of that love.
We understand the HeavenlyFather's love for us as we
understand our role in our kids'life.
God made your role as a parenta very high calling, but the
(09:55):
hidden truth is that we put ourfull focus on our kids sometimes
and we neglect our spouse, andthen our marriage suffers from
starvation and soon.
We aren't doing anything as one.
We are going it alone.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
And this takes us to our third category of complaints
that you're going to hear froma hurting marriage, and that is
that my spouse is lazy.
They're just not an effectiveparent in any way, shape or form
, and I think we're seeing agrowing trend of psychologically
labeled kids who are nowbecoming parents.
They weren't taught a biblicalanswer.
They were given a medicalanswer, a message that declares
(10:32):
that sin, with all its torments,is not their fault.
A label is given.
The consequences then, for thatsin is just deemed immovable.
The result is a generation notdisciplined from a heart of love
, but rather one that just hearsyelling and screaming out of
frustration.
It wasn't discipline, it'swrath.
(10:54):
We've probably all seenparenting with anger, and you
know it never ends well.
Discipline is to bringrepentance, and repentance is to
bring about change.
Wrath is someone just ventingtheir feelings to make sure that
you've gotten what you'vedeserved for what you've done to
them.
Now, of course, it doesn't work, and they feel guilt in the end
(11:16):
, and so shifting into neutralis the safest next step.
Doing nothing looks lazy tosomeone who's on the outside of
their thoughts, but it's aboutthe only tool they have left
short of shouting and throwingthings.
So what does this look like inpractical terms?
Have you ever been in therestaurant?
(11:38):
And to get the kids to behave,we give them an iPad or a movie
and in effect we indirectly tellthem hey, stop bothering me, I
don't care.
We say, go get entertained, soI don't have to deal with you.
And now one generation passesall that and more onto the next
generation.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
And this is the conversation you're going to
find yourself having with yourfriend.
We talked about how God is ourheavenly father and we are to
model his love, and there's anumber of passages that compare
God's fatherhood to ourparenthood.
For example, psalm 103 says asa father has compassion on his
children, so the Lord hascompassion on those who fear him
(12:13):
.
Proverbs 3.12 says for whom theLord loves, he reproves, even
as a father, the son in whom hedelights.
And I love this one fromMatthew 7.11.
Jesus adds and if youhard-hearted, sinful men know
how to give good gifts to yourchildren, won't your Father in
heaven even more certainly givegood gifts to those who ask him
for them?
The point is, god's parenthoodand our parenthood should be
(12:36):
alike.
He is our model for this.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Each verse uses humans just like you and I and
the way that they treat theirchildren to teach us what God is
like.
And the interesting part aboutthis is that, as Christian
counselors, we have seen it playout just like this.
In other words, a person'simage of God is sometimes
patterned after his image of hisown parents, especially his dad
(13:00):
.
If his parents were happy,loving, accepting, forgiving, he
finds it really easy tounderstand God to be that same
way.
If his parents were cold andindifferent, he may feel that
God is the same way, far away,disinterested in him personally.
If his parents were angry andhostile, chose to reject him
(13:21):
often, he would see God in thatsame way, never accepting him.
If his parents were hard toplease, he usually has that same
nagging notion that God's nothappy with him either.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
To help change the view of a lazy or a disengaged
parent, it starts with helpingthat person see properly God's
view of them.
What does God think about themwhen he looks at them?
When we parent like theHeavenly Father, it is so.
Life-giving Parents that arekind of slacking off are often
confused about what God isactually specifically asking
(13:55):
them to do, and so, rather thanact out of rage and sin, they're
just trying to not make a movethat they know they'll regret
later on.
It's not right, it's not aplace to stay, but it is
understandable, and that's whywe have to dig into God's word
and find out about our heavenlyfather so that we can model his
behavior as we close out thisthird category today on how to
(14:16):
help a hurting marriage.
Talking about parenting, manypeople mistake their spouse as
being lazy, when in fact they'rejust in silent disagreement
about how the other spouse isparenting.
And this takes us back to thevery first thing we talked about
.
When we disagree and a wife isdemanding her way or the highway
, or husband's doing the same,the other person often shifts
(14:39):
into neutral and that person,while they're in neutral, looks
lazy to the other parent.
But often they're actually inprotest.
They're not in agreement.
Whatever the topic is, we'reonly going to do it right when
we do it God's way.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
So to help someone in this position, even if you
think their spouse is lazy, canyou challenge them to answer
some really tough questions?
The first is does your spouseunderstand God's love for them
in a biblically accurate way?
What's more urgent the outcomeof their parenting or a correct
heart level understanding thatthey might need with God?
(15:16):
Is there something that youhaven't agreed upon as parents,
but you forced your way?
Could you get out of the way?
Could you take this topic backto your spouse and together seek
God's way rather than your own?
What I mean by this is go tohis word.
Seek God's way rather than yourown.
What I mean by this is go tohis word and, if your view is
well informed by God's word, bepatient.
(15:37):
Don't gloat because you alreadyknew that.
Walk the process.
Discover it together.
The third question is do wehave a home that disciplines or
are we just flexing our wrath?
If you go back to the broadcastin this series on how to help a
hurting marriage aboutforgiveness, listen to that
broadcast again, but this timethink about God's model for
(16:00):
forgiveness, because it appliesas much to our kids as it does
to our marriages If you want todiscipline in a God-honoring way
.
In each case consider wheredoes the offense of that child
not align with God's word.
Then issue discipline to thedegree that's required to get
repentance.
This varies a lot by kid to kidand situation to situation.
(16:22):
The point is don't just check abox that you issued some stern
response to their terribleoffense.
The point is to issue aresponse that brings about a
heart change in that child.
Then, once that child actuallydesires forgiveness, grant it.
Don't hold it over them, don'tverbally rub anything in their
nose, don't count the emotionalcost it's been to you.
(16:43):
Just give them true, deepforgiveness and show them that
your forgiveness actually comesfrom God, who loves and covers
both of your sins.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
To help someone who feels like they are parenting
alone.
Think about charting a coursefor a moment.
What changes need to be made inyour marriage to support
restoring your spouse?
Have you ever prayerfullyestablished goals for how
support restoring your spouse?
Have you ever prayerfullyestablished goals for how you
love your spouse?
Pray also about the goalsyou're implementing in your
marriage and think about theimpacts these things will have
as you train your children.
(17:16):
We can't expect our children toturn out quote-unquote right.
If we're aimed at our form ofright as opposed to what God's
word says is right, we can't hita target we don't put above our
own.
As believers, our first targetshould be leading our spouse and
our kids to a saving knowledgeof Jesus Christ, Not just the
assumed hey, they grew up inchurch, they're good to go Not
(17:39):
just the head knowledge you knowthey have about God.
We can't expect our spouse orour kids to shoot for that right
goal until they have a newnature imparted from above.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Second, we have to want our kids and our spouse to
make decisions in alignment withGod's word, and we do this
through prayer.
We share every detail of ourlife with God and learn to trust
him with every experience wehave.
Asking first, what God wants usto do is a habit that has to be
cultivated, and you can andshould be the example, no matter
(18:14):
what your spouse's behavior is.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
This leaves us with one more common category on our
list of four things you're goingto want to be prepared for as
you talk to someone aboutparenting, when they are in a
hurting marriage, when someonecomes to you saying you know
what?
I just want to leave my husbandand my kids for a new start.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
It comes in a few different forms.
Someone saying you know, allthe kids see is us fighting.
I'm not a good parent anyhow.
Maybe my wife is right.
I just can't handle my kidsanymore.
Someone begins to buy into thelie that their family would
actually be better off withoutthem and, quietly, that lie that
they might be better offwithout their family too,
(18:57):
because all this stress on themis just too great to be
sustained.
Sometimes you'll hear a spousesay you know my husband, my wife
is just being a jerk to ourkids.
I feel like I need to protectthem.
There are so many reasons why amarriage can negatively impact
the kids.
It's true.
Maybe you've even experiencedit yourself as a child.
(19:18):
Now, if you want to help ahurting marriage in this
situation, can I give you a wordof caution?
Be careful with affirmation.
When someone comes in agonyover the mess their kids are
growing up in, I always thankthem for the heart that they
have for their kids, but I alsowant to remind them that God
loves their kids too Rarely.
Is it better to remain twobroken people who are now
(19:42):
separate?
That's not a way to fix it.
Hope comes with change.
Broken people aren't to be leftfor dead.
They're to be loved anddisciplined.
Proverbs 22.6 says train up achild in the way he should go.
Even when he's old, he won'tdepart from it.
God's saying a person's wayslater in life will be determined
(20:03):
by his earlier experiences andtraining.
So what happens during thisseason is going to largely
determine the kinds of adultsour children will become, and
these years will be foreverimprinted in their personalities
.
That's why so many people thinkwell, now's the time to leave.
Our children, in many ways, areexactly what we make of them as
(20:24):
a sinner.
That's a sobering thought.
The comfort I take, though, isrealizing that raising a child
successfully is a superhumantask.
When you're talking to someonewhose marriage is wreaking havoc
for their kids, it demands morethan the resources that we have
as a person to offer.
It requires supernatural wisdomand strength.
(20:44):
It requires supernatural wisdomand strength.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
By examining God's covenant not contract
relationship with us, we learnhow he functions as our father,
and from that we can learn whatkind of parents we should be.
The question is, will we followour flesh or let him control
our lives?
You can look more into that inGalatians, chapter 5.
It's not about you or yourspouse being perfect today.
(21:06):
It's about being willing toapply biblical wisdom to become
a godly parent for tomorrow.
It's about not accepting thelabels and having courage to
believe that God can take brokenpeople and make them into
something for his glory.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
We need to meditate on the kind of God our children
see by watching the relationshipthat I have with him, that you
have with him.
Is my daughter learning thatChristians have security once
they're saved, or that God'scovenants are breakable?
Is she learning that God isloving, kind, patient and
forgiving?
You see, many people we counsel20, 30 years later say that
(21:43):
their whole spiritualunderstanding was upended while
their parents walked through adivorce.
It can be good to take anassessment and see what we're
doing right now isn't working.
It's not time, though, to endit.
It's time to change it.
When we learn what kind offather God is and we follow his
example, no matter what ourspouse does or doesn't do our
(22:04):
children see a living lesson ofthe kind of faithful God that we
have that is more powerful tothem than any other protection
you could put in their life.
Ephesians 6.4 has some soberingwords to consider, especially
for the dads listening to metoday.
It says fathers, don't provokeyour children in anger, but
bring them up in the disciplineand instruction of the Lord.
(22:26):
I've heard it said more thanonce by a man who was about to
walk out on his family.
You know what?
It would just be better forthem if I leave.
Everyone in my house is angry.
I don't want to provoke themanymore.
It's just more honorable to getout of here to step aside.
We so often miss the point ofthis verse.
It's not talking about themomentary disappointment of a
(22:48):
kid that doesn't like yourdecisions.
It's not even talking about thethree to five month phases your
kid might be going through.
This verse is talking to theparent who's taking the easy way
out.
Ask any adult who's grown upwithout one of their parents how
they feel about this.
They are rarely glad.
Instead, they long for the manwho would have been instructed
(23:09):
by the Lord himself, the man whowould have changed himself to
be more like Christ.
Just like this verse iscompelling us fathers to teach
and discipline our children, weneed to be teachable.
We need to be disciplined bythe Lord.
I want to close with thisthought the training we give our
children must be of the Lordand it must be learned ourselves
(23:31):
first.
It's training that means more,because it's been lived out in
your own life.
It can't be faked.
We're all in need of change,and that change gives us
credibility to help our childrenchange too.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Hey, that's it for us for today on Vows to Keep Radio
, but we're looking forward tothe next two weeks as we wrap up
how to help a hurting marriagehere on Vows to Keep Radio,
where we talk about unity andintimacy in marriage next week
and we finish the whole seriesout with Legacy.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Vows to Keep is a not-for-profit marriage ministry
designed to bring God'sencouraging truth to the
marriages of our area.
If you are, vows to Keep is anot-for-profit marriage ministry
designed to bring God'sencouraging truth to the
marriages of our area.
If you are unable to donateyour time or abilities, but
would like to help support Vowsto Keep financially, visit
VowsToKeepcom and click on thedonate link.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Fiction isn't just for entertainment, even though
one of my favorite things to dois read a good book.
Fiction with a purpose allowsyou to journey with the
characters and come out on theother side changed more into the
image of Christ.
And that's exactly what I wantfor you as you read my trilogy
Roots Run Deep.
These historical romances arefun and fast-paced, but I also
(24:43):
know that as you turn that lastpage, your heart will be changed
because you'll know more deeplyyour Heavenly Father's heart
for you.
Go to VowsToKeepcom for all thedetails.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
This program is sponsored by Vows to Keep of
Zanesfield, Ohio.
Welcome to Vows to Keep Radio with David and Tracy
Sellers.
The mission of Vows to Keep isto help couples develop a
biblically healthy marriagethrough the application of God's
Word and a deeper relationshipwith Him.
They desire to help you andyour spouse grow closer to each
other and closer to the heart ofGod's design for your marriage.
Now here's David and Tracy withtoday's broadcast.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
We are David and Tracy Sellers and, like you,
we've made vows to keep.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Today we're talking about the marital wildcard kids.
Kids are the byproduct of whatwe do in marriage.
Kids are the first witness tothe way that a marriage either
glorifies God or flat outdoesn't.
What do you think, trace, forthe sake of breaking this down
into buckets, should we try totackle, like the top three or
four things?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Probably the most common would have to be we just
don't agree on parenting issues.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
I've felt it, you've heard it the kids are just
wearing us down.
Our marriage is sufferingbecause of it, or my spouse is a
lazy parent.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
And finally, the top four has got to be rounded out
with this one.
This marriage is tearing medown and now it's affecting our
kids.
It's time to end it all.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
We know there are more, but these are the biggies.
These are the big questions.
Without God's word there are noeasy answers To help a hurting
marriage.
We need to be knowledgeable onwhat the word of God says about
these issues.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
A husband came to me sharing how his wife was raised
to believe that drinking was asin.
Out of respect for her, hedidn't drink, but a day was
coming where he knew he had toteach his kids about this topic.
The problem, though, was hedidn't agree with her view.
For years, they avoided thistopic.
She was firm on her belief andhe didn't want to disturb the
(01:42):
peace.
Maybe you can relate.
What do you and your spousedisagree on?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
For example, I was a picky eater growing up.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
And I was someone who ate whatever was put in front
of me and would have beendisciplined for the slightest
bit of complaining.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
So how will we raise our kids?
As a mom?
I'm the one that feeds themmost of the time.
Maybe I think I should get todecide.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
In counseling we've seen the confusion it creates
for the kids of couples who havedifferent expectations.
The kids cozy up to whomeverhas the rules that they like and
they complain about the one whohas the rules that they don't
like Rules like this.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Where does God's word say thou shalt eat thine
broccoli?
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Both of these topics, the drinking as well as the
food.
They're valid questions andwe've actually heard this from
many real families, includingour own.
To help a hurting marriage,you've got to go to God's word
with that person who is talkingto you about these challenges.
You might have an opinion, butcan I ask you, can I compel you,
to just let your own opinionactually be shaped by God's word
(02:44):
?
See, the thing is, is the rules, the thoughts we have on things
are so temporary and manyparents fight about the letter
of their own laws that thingsare going to enforce in their
house.
Then they march right past theintent of God's.
As parents, our purpose shouldbe to prepare our kids for a
life outside our home.
That day is coming where ouropinion as parents isn't really
(03:06):
going to matter that much, andwe have to be so careful not to
make little Pharisees, littlerule followers, out of our
children while they're withinour home.
Success isn't kids who followyour every word.
Success is kids with thefreedom to choose, seeing the
fruit of that obedience to God'sword and choosing to do that
for themselves.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
I grew up in a home where my mom made a meal for the
family and then she made a mealfor me.
It was great, but in hindsightit really wasn't so great.
As a kid, going to otherpeople's houses, I insulted
their cooking, really withouteven knowing it, and that was
fine by me.
But really, Philippians chaptertwo was totally lost on me the
(03:47):
part where it says do nothingout of selfish ambition or vain
conceit, but rather in humility.
Value others above yourselves,not looking to your own
interests, but each of you tothe interests of others.
Selflessness isn't taught bywords.
It's taught in being deniedsomething for the purpose of
loving another.
I didn't learn it really untilI was an adult and that lesson
(04:09):
was humbling.
My parents thought they werebeing giving to me, but I dare
say they were taking the easyway out with me.
They didn't want to fight me,so I ruled issues like this as a
little kid.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
The Bible has a lot to say about drinking alcohol.
We talked about that.
Let's go read it for yourselves.
In Leviticus, numbers,deuteronomy, judges, proverbs,
isaiah, the scripture does notactually say that a Christian
can't consume alcohol.
What God commands is Christiansregarding avoiding being drunk,
and you'll find that inEphesians and Proverbs,
(04:41):
christians are also commandednot to allow their body to be
mastered by anything, andclearly drinking alcohol in
excess is something that notonly does that but also can be
very addictive.
So in light of these verses,god's word is making it pretty
clear Getting drunk is notsomething God is okay with.
But I think it's also hard tosay that a Christian can
(05:03):
universally say that alldrinking is a sin.
Do you see what we've done here?
It's no longer about heropinion or his opinion.
God's word speaks very plainly.
I've not met an issue yet thatwe couldn't find answers within
the pages of the Bible.
Getting on the same page is asdifficult and as simple as
researching in the pages ofGod's word is as difficult and
as simple as researching in thepages of God's Word.
(05:24):
So when you want to helphurting marriage, the goal isn't
to strengthen someone's opinionby adding your own two cents.
It's about teaching them how touse God's Word to redefine
their opinion.
Tracy, you talked about theparent who might come in just
worn down from all the stressesof being a parent.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Yeah, it's that second category.
Parents who put off the hardwork today pay a much higher
price as their children getolder.
My picky eating journey is justone small example.
I'm living proof.
The older a person gets, theharder change becomes.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
Kids neglected from the real hard work of discipline
, from real discipleship.
Well, they become adults withproblems that they bear with
them.
Parenting clearly isn't forwimps, and how we're parented
often shapes our ownexpectations, sometimes
incorrectly.
It can be so easy to beoverwhelmed because of those
expectations.
(06:18):
So here comes someone,overwhelmed by the struggles of
parenting.
They're burying their soul,their fears.
They're showing how burned outthey are.
They feel weak.
If you want to help them, yourfirst question needs to be how
is your marriage faring with allof this?
Now, why would that be a goodquestion?
Well, the Lord tells us we'reto train up our children and
(06:39):
raise them for the Lord.
We're going to dig into this injust a minute.
But the Lord also says amarriage is to draw near to God
and to each other, to becomethat one flesh.
So how do we become one fleshif we neglect our marriage and
how do we help our kidsunderstand that one flesh
principle as well?
To help a hurting marriage?
(07:00):
You might find you're going tohave to ask some questions that
go against the grain of ourculture.
Many parents, and thus theirmarriages, are actually failing
from disbelief that God's way toparent and to do marriage could
ever work.
This makes the stakes very high, not only for future
generations, but the marriagesthat surround those children.
(07:21):
Today, the world has made beinga parent the most important
thing we could ever do, andsimultaneously it has devalued
God's design for marriage.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
So the second question you want to ask a
parent in hardship is have youmade your relationships with
your children too important?
We hear it said in casualconversation all the time my
kids are my number one becausemy husband hey, he can take care
of himself, my kids can't.
But the truth is, this neverends well.
These are the same people whowill invest to no end for their
(07:55):
kids' sports schedules and willdo everything they can to make
their kids' day as streamlinedas possible, but their marriage,
meanwhile, looks like aroommate situation.
God gives us priority order inthese things for a reason, and
God has given them an ally intheir life.
The problem is, sometimes wetreat our marriage as dead
weight, and a marriage inneglect is a parent in survival
(08:17):
mode.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
So could God be putting you in the life of a
struggling parent who's now alsoa struggling spouse.
To share truth, to bringlong-standing positive change
into a child's life, that parentneeds to be on a godly given
mission, and it starts inGenesis 2.24, where we see this
picture of the marriage bondthat God describes.
(08:41):
It says Therefore, a man shallleave his father and mother and
be joined to his wife, and theyshall become one flesh.
Two becoming one in marriageactually involves uniting two
whole and separate people into anew, god-designed, god-purposed
life.
Their first mission has to be amission for two to become one
(09:02):
Now as a unified pair.
They're then up to the task ofparenting.
This burned out feeling that wehave can be a great indication
that what we've been doing isn'tworking.
Now most people will reasonablyagree that if they were both on
the same page, both on the sameparenting mission, it would be
easier, it would be better.
(09:22):
The problem is that they don'trealize it actually starts by
working on the same marriagemission first.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
I love how God made man and woman in his image and
he made marriage to reflect thisundeserved love to someone in
need.
God made training up a child anoutpouring of that love.
We understand the HeavenlyFather's love for us as we
understand our role in our kids'life.
God made your role as a parenta very high calling, but the
(09:55):
hidden truth is that we put ourfull focus on our kids sometimes
and we neglect our spouse, andthen our marriage suffers from
starvation and soon.
We aren't doing anything as one.
We are going it alone.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
And this takes us to our third category of complaints
that you're going to hear froma hurting marriage, and that is
that my spouse is lazy.
They're just not an effectiveparent in any way, shape or form
, and I think we're seeing agrowing trend of psychologically
labeled kids who are nowbecoming parents.
They weren't taught a biblicalanswer.
They were given a medicalanswer, a message that declares
(10:32):
that sin, with all its torments,is not their fault.
A label is given.
The consequences then, for thatsin is just deemed immovable.
The result is a generation notdisciplined from a heart of love
, but rather one that just hearsyelling and screaming out of
frustration.
It wasn't discipline, it'swrath.
(10:54):
We've probably all seenparenting with anger, and you
know it never ends well.
Discipline is to bringrepentance, and repentance is to
bring about change.
Wrath is someone just ventingtheir feelings to make sure that
you've gotten what you'vedeserved for what you've done to
them.
Now, of course, it doesn't work, and they feel guilt in the end
(11:16):
, and so shifting into neutralis the safest next step.
Doing nothing looks lazy tosomeone who's on the outside of
their thoughts, but it's aboutthe only tool they have left
short of shouting and throwingthings.
So what does this look like inpractical terms?
Have you ever been in therestaurant?
(11:38):
And to get the kids to behave,we give them an iPad or a movie
and in effect we indirectly tellthem hey, stop bothering me, I
don't care.
We say, go get entertained, soI don't have to deal with you.
And now one generation passesall that and more onto the next
generation.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
And this is the conversation you're going to
find yourself having with yourfriend.
We talked about how God is ourheavenly father and we are to
model his love, and there's anumber of passages that compare
God's fatherhood to ourparenthood.
For example, psalm 103 says asa father has compassion on his
children, so the Lord hascompassion on those who fear him
(12:13):
.
Proverbs 3.12 says for whom theLord loves, he reproves, even
as a father, the son in whom hedelights.
And I love this one fromMatthew 7.11.
Jesus adds and if youhard-hearted, sinful men know
how to give good gifts to yourchildren, won't your Father in
heaven even more certainly givegood gifts to those who ask him
for them?
The point is, god's parenthoodand our parenthood should be
(12:36):
alike.
He is our model for this.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Each verse uses humans just like you and I and
the way that they treat theirchildren to teach us what God is
like.
And the interesting part aboutthis is that, as Christian
counselors, we have seen it playout just like this.
In other words, a person'simage of God is sometimes
patterned after his image of hisown parents, especially his dad
(13:00):
.
If his parents were happy,loving, accepting, forgiving, he
finds it really easy tounderstand God to be that same
way.
If his parents were cold andindifferent, he may feel that
God is the same way, far away,disinterested in him personally.
If his parents were angry andhostile, chose to reject him
(13:21):
often, he would see God in thatsame way, never accepting him.
If his parents were hard toplease, he usually has that same
nagging notion that God's nothappy with him either.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
To help change the view of a lazy or a disengaged
parent, it starts with helpingthat person see properly God's
view of them.
What does God think about themwhen he looks at them?
When we parent like theHeavenly Father, it is so.
Life-giving Parents that arekind of slacking off are often
confused about what God isactually specifically asking
(13:55):
them to do, and so, rather thanact out of rage and sin, they're
just trying to not make a movethat they know they'll regret
later on.
It's not right, it's not aplace to stay, but it is
understandable, and that's whywe have to dig into God's word
and find out about our heavenlyfather so that we can model his
behavior as we close out thisthird category today on how to
(14:16):
help a hurting marriage.
Talking about parenting, manypeople mistake their spouse as
being lazy, when in fact they'rejust in silent disagreement
about how the other spouse isparenting.
And this takes us back to thevery first thing we talked about
.
When we disagree and a wife isdemanding her way or the highway
, or husband's doing the same,the other person often shifts
(14:39):
into neutral and that person,while they're in neutral, looks
lazy to the other parent.
But often they're actually inprotest.
They're not in agreement.
Whatever the topic is, we'reonly going to do it right when
we do it God's way.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
So to help someone in this position, even if you
think their spouse is lazy, canyou challenge them to answer
some really tough questions?
The first is does your spouseunderstand God's love for them
in a biblically accurate way?
What's more urgent the outcomeof their parenting or a correct
heart level understanding thatthey might need with God?
(15:16):
Is there something that youhaven't agreed upon as parents,
but you forced your way?
Could you get out of the way?
Could you take this topic backto your spouse and together seek
God's way rather than your own?
What I mean by this is go tohis word.
Seek God's way rather than yourown.
What I mean by this is go tohis word and, if your view is
well informed by God's word, bepatient.
(15:37):
Don't gloat because you alreadyknew that.
Walk the process.
Discover it together.
The third question is do wehave a home that disciplines or
are we just flexing our wrath?
If you go back to the broadcastin this series on how to help a
hurting marriage aboutforgiveness, listen to that
broadcast again, but this timethink about God's model for
(16:00):
forgiveness, because it appliesas much to our kids as it does
to our marriages If you want todiscipline in a God-honoring way
.
In each case consider wheredoes the offense of that child
not align with God's word.
Then issue discipline to thedegree that's required to get
repentance.
This varies a lot by kid to kidand situation to situation.
(16:22):
The point is don't just check abox that you issued some stern
response to their terribleoffense.
The point is to issue aresponse that brings about a
heart change in that child.
Then, once that child actuallydesires forgiveness, grant it.
Don't hold it over them, don'tverbally rub anything in their
nose, don't count the emotionalcost it's been to you.
(16:43):
Just give them true, deepforgiveness and show them that
your forgiveness actually comesfrom God, who loves and covers
both of your sins.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
To help someone who feels like they are parenting
alone.
Think about charting a coursefor a moment.
What changes need to be made inyour marriage to support
restoring your spouse?
Have you ever prayerfullyestablished goals for how
support restoring your spouse?
Have you ever prayerfullyestablished goals for how you
love your spouse?
Pray also about the goalsyou're implementing in your
marriage and think about theimpacts these things will have
as you train your children.
(17:16):
We can't expect our children toturn out quote-unquote right.
If we're aimed at our form ofright as opposed to what God's
word says is right, we can't hita target we don't put above our
own.
As believers, our first targetshould be leading our spouse and
our kids to a saving knowledgeof Jesus Christ, Not just the
assumed hey, they grew up inchurch, they're good to go Not
(17:39):
just the head knowledge you knowthey have about God.
We can't expect our spouse orour kids to shoot for that right
goal until they have a newnature imparted from above.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Second, we have to want our kids and our spouse to
make decisions in alignment withGod's word, and we do this
through prayer.
We share every detail of ourlife with God and learn to trust
him with every experience wehave.
Asking first, what God wants usto do is a habit that has to be
cultivated, and you can andshould be the example, no matter
(18:14):
what your spouse's behavior is.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
This leaves us with one more common category on our
list of four things you're goingto want to be prepared for as
you talk to someone aboutparenting, when they are in a
hurting marriage, when someonecomes to you saying you know
what?
I just want to leave my husbandand my kids for a new start.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
It comes in a few different forms.
Someone saying you know, allthe kids see is us fighting.
I'm not a good parent anyhow.
Maybe my wife is right.
I just can't handle my kidsanymore.
Someone begins to buy into thelie that their family would
actually be better off withoutthem and, quietly, that lie that
they might be better offwithout their family too,
(18:57):
because all this stress on themis just too great to be
sustained.
Sometimes you'll hear a spousesay you know my husband, my wife
is just being a jerk to ourkids.
I feel like I need to protectthem.
There are so many reasons why amarriage can negatively impact
the kids.
It's true.
Maybe you've even experiencedit yourself as a child.
(19:18):
Now, if you want to help ahurting marriage in this
situation, can I give you a wordof caution?
Be careful with affirmation.
When someone comes in agonyover the mess their kids are
growing up in, I always thankthem for the heart that they
have for their kids, but I alsowant to remind them that God
loves their kids too Rarely.
Is it better to remain twobroken people who are now
(19:42):
separate?
That's not a way to fix it.
Hope comes with change.
Broken people aren't to be leftfor dead.
They're to be loved anddisciplined.
Proverbs 22.6 says train up achild in the way he should go.
Even when he's old, he won'tdepart from it.
God's saying a person's wayslater in life will be determined
(20:03):
by his earlier experiences andtraining.
So what happens during thisseason is going to largely
determine the kinds of adultsour children will become, and
these years will be foreverimprinted in their personalities
.
That's why so many people thinkwell, now's the time to leave.
Our children, in many ways, areexactly what we make of them as
(20:24):
a sinner.
That's a sobering thought.
The comfort I take, though, isrealizing that raising a child
successfully is a superhumantask.
When you're talking to someonewhose marriage is wreaking havoc
for their kids, it demands morethan the resources that we have
as a person to offer.
It requires supernatural wisdomand strength.
(20:44):
It requires supernatural wisdomand strength.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
By examining God's covenant not contract
relationship with us, we learnhow he functions as our father,
and from that we can learn whatkind of parents we should be.
The question is, will we followour flesh or let him control
our lives?
You can look more into that inGalatians, chapter 5.
It's not about you or yourspouse being perfect today.
(21:06):
It's about being willing toapply biblical wisdom to become
a godly parent for tomorrow.
It's about not accepting thelabels and having courage to
believe that God can take brokenpeople and make them into
something for his glory.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
We need to meditate on the kind of God our children
see by watching the relationshipthat I have with him, that you
have with him.
Is my daughter learning thatChristians have security once
they're saved, or that God'scovenants are breakable?
Is she learning that God isloving, kind, patient and
forgiving?
You see, many people we counsel20, 30 years later say that
(21:43):
their whole spiritualunderstanding was upended while
their parents walked through adivorce.
It can be good to take anassessment and see what we're
doing right now isn't working.
It's not time, though, to endit.
It's time to change it.
When we learn what kind offather God is and we follow his
example, no matter what ourspouse does or doesn't do our
(22:04):
children see a living lesson ofthe kind of faithful God that we
have that is more powerful tothem than any other protection
you could put in their life.
Ephesians 6.4 has some soberingwords to consider, especially
for the dads listening to metoday.
It says fathers, don't provokeyour children in anger, but
bring them up in the disciplineand instruction of the Lord.
(22:26):
I've heard it said more thanonce by a man who was about to
walk out on his family.
You know what?
It would just be better forthem if I leave.
Everyone in my house is angry.
I don't want to provoke themanymore.
It's just more honorable to getout of here to step aside.
We so often miss the point ofthis verse.
It's not talking about themomentary disappointment of a
(22:48):
kid that doesn't like yourdecisions.
It's not even talking about thethree to five month phases your
kid might be going through.
This verse is talking to theparent who's taking the easy way
out.
Ask any adult who's grown upwithout one of their parents how
they feel about this.
They are rarely glad.
Instead, they long for the manwho would have been instructed
(23:09):
by the Lord himself, the man whowould have changed himself to
be more like Christ.
Just like this verse iscompelling us fathers to teach
and discipline our children, weneed to be teachable.
We need to be disciplined bythe Lord.
I want to close with thisthought the training we give our
children must be of the Lordand it must be learned ourselves
(23:31):
first.
It's training that means more,because it's been lived out in
your own life.
It can't be faked.
We're all in need of change,and that change gives us
credibility to help our childrenchange too.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Hey, that's it for us for today on Vows to Keep Radio
, but we're looking forward tothe next two weeks as we wrap up
how to help a hurting marriagehere on Vows to Keep Radio,
where we talk about unity andintimacy in marriage next week
and we finish the whole seriesout with Legacy.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Vows to Keep is a not-for-profit marriage ministry
designed to bring God'sencouraging truth to the
marriages of our area.
If you are, vows to Keep is anot-for-profit marriage ministry
designed to bring God'sencouraging truth to the
marriages of our area.
If you are unable to donateyour time or abilities, but
would like to help support Vowsto Keep financially, visit
VowsToKeepcom and click on thedonate link.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Fiction isn't just for entertainment, even though
one of my favorite things to dois read a good book.
Fiction with a purpose allowsyou to journey with the
characters and come out on theother side changed more into the
image of Christ.
And that's exactly what I wantfor you as you read my trilogy
Roots Run Deep.
These historical romances arefun and fast-paced, but I also
(24:43):
know that as you turn that lastpage, your heart will be changed
because you'll know more deeplyyour Heavenly Father's heart
for you.
Go to VowsToKeepcom for all thedetails.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
This program is sponsored by Vows to Keep of
Zanesfield, Ohio.
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