December 1, 2025 • 24 mins
What if the real win of parenting isn’t quieter dinners or tidy rooms, but shaping a heart that keeps God at the center when life gets loud? We sit down with our kids to unpack how grace and discipline actually work together, why some rules are scaffolding and not forever, and how discerning real needs from felt needs can spare a family from debt, disappointment, and drift. The stories are simple and honest—lost retainers, toothpaste races, and a car that turned into an idol—but they point to a bigger truth: formation beats behavior management every time.
We anchor the conversation in scripture, especially Hebrews 12 and Proverbs, exploring how loving discipline trains children for righteousness and peace. That lens helps us ask better questions: Are we disciplining from anger or love? Are we teaching our kids to obey us or to honor God? How do we build boundaries that hold in split homes where one set of rules feels easier but emptier? We talk openly about modeling reconciliation after conflict, letting kids see how we put God first, marriage second, and children third, not to diminish them, but to give them a stable, joyful home that overflows with love.
Practical takeaways weave through every segment: choose consequences that target the heart, replace arbitrary rules with clear principles as kids mature, and speak love in the language each child understands—time, touch, words, or service. We also share tools for training financial wisdom early, helping teens feel the weight of choices without crushing them. By keeping Christ on the throne, our homes become training grounds for adulthood—places where kids learn to shoulder responsibility, prefer others, and read discipline as love.
If this conversation encouraged you, follow the show, share it with a friend who’s in the thick of parenting, and leave a review with one lesson you’re putting into practice this week. Your story might be the nudge another family needs.
For episode transcripts, click HERE.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:01):
Welcome to Vows to Keep Radio with David and Tracy
Sellers.
The mission of Vows to Keep isto help couples develop a
biblically healthy marriagethrough the application of God's
word and a deeper relationshipwith Him.
They desire to help you and yourspouse grow closer to each other
and closer to the heart of God'sdesign for your marriage.
Now, here's David and Tracy withtoday's broadcast.
SPEAKER_03 (00:26):
Hi, my name is Hope.
SPEAKER_02 (00:27):
I am Ross, and our parents have made vows to keep.
SPEAKER_01 (00:32):
Well, ladies and gentlemen, I have two very
special guests on today'sbroadcast, two of my children.
We are going to be talking aboutparenting and about being
children in today's Christianhomes.
This will be interview stylebetween the three of us, a
little bit of back and forthbetween Hope and Ross and I to
get us started.
Hope, why do you think that Godgave us parents?
SPEAKER_03 (00:54):
To have them take care of us.
SPEAKER_01 (00:56):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (00:57):
And to provide for our needs, to give us what we
can't get.
Like since we don't have a job,we can't earn the money to go
ourselves, you know, shelter ourfood, but our parents can.
SPEAKER_02 (01:10):
We really didn't have a choice when we got the
parents.
I mean, I kind of wish I couldchoose my parents sometimes.
Like, hmm, this one looks prettynice, but I got good parents.
I think they're our mentors.
A lot of times they don't getthe gratitude that they deserve,
but they do a lot of stuff inour lives that we will probably
never fully realize until we'reparents and doing the same
things for our kids, and we'llthink, wow, my parents worked
(01:33):
really hard for me.
SPEAKER_03 (01:34):
Dan, why do you think God gave you children?
SPEAKER_01 (01:37):
I think there's a lot of parents that they think
to themselves, Well, Iunderstand the mechanics of what
got children into my life, butthat is absolutely not the
purpose.
That's not why God has given uschildren.
I believe that God has given uschildren to go and make
disciples of all nations.
We can find in Matthew 28.
Jesus came and said, Therefore,go and make disciples of all
(02:00):
nations, baptizing in the nameof the Father, the Son, and the
Holy Spirit, and teaching themto obey everything I have
commanded you.
And surely I'm with you alwaysto the very end of the age.
As I look at you guys and Ithink about where your kids as
kids as kids will go and spreadthe gospel.
SPEAKER_02 (02:17):
It's kind of a mind-boggling thought.
Let's move on to the nextquestion.
What's the most important thingsthat parents should know about
their children as they parentthem?
SPEAKER_01 (02:26):
That's a great question, Ross.
I think that one of the mostimportant things is knowing your
child's heart and being aware ofthe kind of things that trip
them up in life, much likeunderstanding how God knows our
heart.
And I put a lot of parallels inmy life between myself and my
heavenly father, and myself andyou as your physical father.
(02:47):
Oftentimes anticipating whatyour needs are, or maybe even
anticipating what might betemptations for you, are vital
to the choices that I'm going tomake as a parent.
Not only about when I might bebringing discipline into your
life, but also at times whereI'm going to recognize, okay,
this is coming in at a levelthat's probably higher than they
understand, and right now I justneed to help give them a guiding
(03:09):
rule, and it's less about themreally understanding the heart
behind it.
What do you guys think is themost important thing that as
kids you guys need to know aboutyour parents as they are
parenting you?
SPEAKER_02 (03:22):
That's a tough one.
SPEAKER_03 (03:23):
Yeah.
I mean, they might need toknow 'cause some kids they think
that the world revolves aroundthem, but they might not even
realize that their parents haveother things to do besides them.
So they're like, then why don'tyou give me this and you should
give me that?
My parents are trying to doother things.
So they need to realize thattheir parents have other things
besides them.
SPEAKER_02 (03:44):
I think kind of the same thing that you said, Dad,
about knowing our hearts is thatwe have to know your heart and w
why you're disciplining us.
Because if you were doing it outof anger, then uh that wouldn't
be right.
But since we know your heart, weknow that you are disciplining
us because you love us and youcare for us and you want a
better future for us.
And uh the better future for uswouldn't be that we would just
(04:07):
get everything we want foreighteen years and then fail
when we're on our own.
But the better future for uswould be that you would teach us
now, kind of like Hebrewstwelve, verse eleven says, No
discipline seems pleasant at thetime but painful.
Later on, however, it produces aharvest of righteousness and
peace for those who have beentrained by it.
So it's not gonna be pleasantnow.
I never like being grounded byelectronics, I probably never
(04:29):
will.
However, I'm gonna know thatlesson from when I learned it
when I was thirteen or fourteen,and I'm gonna be able to use it
for the rest of my life.
Let's move on to the nextquestion.
SPEAKER_03 (04:39):
How did grace and discipline work against each
other or for each other?
SPEAKER_01 (04:43):
That's a great question.
I think many parents, as Rosspointed out, are motivated by
our anger to discipline.
You as a child maybe have donesomething which offends us or or
really bothers us.
I can remember a time when Rosswas a little baby, and I had
just got done changing hisdiaper.
Only to find that he messed hisdiaper a second time and then
(05:05):
proceeded to barf at the sametime.
And of course, I had just gotdone cleaning him up and I was
like, oh, Ross.
Thankfully, he was too young tounderstand my anger.
And I want to give that examplebecause parents have that time
before their child can actuallyunderstand to gain maturity.
When I was a dad of young littlebabies who couldn't really
(05:25):
understand my words, there wasoftentimes where I failed as a
parent.
I let my frustration in asituation cause my words to not
be what they should be.
And I think in God's grace, Hehas given us as parents that
first year to two years to whereour kids don't totally
understand what we're doing forus to get our own act together.
(05:46):
God uses situations like thedouble barrel diaper barfing
combo move to teach me as a dadpatience.
And I had to realize that littleRoss at the time wasn't out to
get me.
In fact, I couldn't teach himanything about what he was
doing.
Instead, God used you, Ross, toteach me.
I find God's providence in howhe provides for us to become
(06:07):
ready for the next stage ofparenting all over the place.
That is grace.
But when we talk about grace,many parents are thinking about
a time where their kiddo hasmessed up and they're wondering
to themselves, listen, should Ijust let it go?
Or should I bring in somediscipline?
And that might be that they'refive years old, that might be
they're 15 years old.
I want to say this not providingdiscipline when it's truly
(06:29):
needed by our kids is not givingthem grace.
It's actually setting them upfor further future failures.
We all love grace.
But making a decision betweengrace and discipline is really
not a decision at all.
In fact, what it is is payingattention to what are your
child's real needs versus whatthey feel their needs are.
Let me give an example.
(06:49):
And this is one that as aparents we often struggle with.
Not long ago, I was talking witha gentleman who really felt like
he needed a new car.
Now, he was someone who wantedto go into ministry.
That was his goal, but he reallywanted this new car.
Through our conversation, wewere able to establish that you
know what?
Yeah, your old car is maybe notquite as shiny and nice, but
(07:12):
it's still getting you by.
The real need is to payattention to the wisdom that we
find in Proverbs 22.
It says, The rich rule over thepoor, and the borrower is a
slave to the lender.
So his real need was to prayabout this and see whether he
really felt God was leading himto it.
And if it was in fact where Godwas leading him, it would become
time to start to save.
(07:33):
And once he had amassed all themoney needed to buy that car, go
ahead and do it.
Going into debt would haveovercommitted the time that he
would have liked to have spentvolunteering in ministry and
would have forced him to spendthat time at work.
And that's the same thing thathappens in parenting, to look at
what are your real needs andwhat are the needs you perceive.
And there's times where I haveto be willing to give you grace
(07:55):
on what you think you need, butbe paying attention to how I
might need to teach ordiscipline on what your real
needs are.
SPEAKER_02 (08:02):
To all the kids, a shout out to all the poor little
kids out there who have hadbraces.
You hate them, I hate them, butthey're good for us.
So after you get braces done, incase you don't know, you get to
have them taken off.
It's the best thing in theworld.
Uh you get a retainer after thatand you have to wear it to keep
your teeth in the right place.
The problem is that they areclear and tiny and you you lose
(08:23):
them.
And so I lost mine once and Ihad to replace it.
And uh I had this felt needbefore I lost my retainer that I
just had to buy this really niceRC car from Walmart, and I
bought it.
And uh it felt good for a littlewhile, then I lost a retainer,
and they cost about 175 bucks,and so I had to go into debt to
(08:44):
replace it.
What my felt need was was that Ineeded this toy right now.
What I didn't realize was thatmy real need was going to be
more immediate there, and sofrom now on I've always had$200
on hand.
So if I lose a retainer at anytime, I can replace it.
SPEAKER_01 (09:00):
Yeah, that's a great example, Ross.
There's a lot of times where asparents we've missed the boat to
teach our kids about how to stayout of debt.
There's been several goodtraining lessons along the ways
with retainers because it'staught you guys a lot about
keeping track of stuff andhaving responsibility uh for
those.
SPEAKER_02 (09:17):
Definitely.
SPEAKER_01 (09:18):
So to wrap up your question, Hope, the way that you
balance grace and discipline,they literally run hand in hand
with each other.
Knowing what your child reallyneeds can actually be giving
them grace when you aredisciplining them.
I look at it like this when I amout of your lives, three, four
years, Ross, you're gonna beleaving the house and then she's
(09:40):
holding up her fingers.
In seven years, hope is gonna bealso an adult and you're gonna
be starting a life of your own.
The most important thing that Ican do is make sure that you
understand God's grace, that youalso understand God's
discipline.
And I don't ever want it to bethat I constantly remove the
discipline from your life,remove the consequences out of
(10:02):
your life to the degree that youexpect perfect ease in the
world.
SPEAKER_02 (10:06):
You're not ready to be hit by all the needs of the
world that are gonna come on youhard and fast, you'll you're
just gonna buckle.
SPEAKER_01 (10:13):
Yeah, if you are literally the center of your
parents' world and of your ownworld, when you get into the
real world, you find that's justnot how it works.
And then on top of that, we'reasked as Christians to make God
the center of our world.
SPEAKER_00 (10:27):
If you have a marriage question, please email
questions at vows2keep.com.
Vows2Keep will respond to youvia email and perhaps use it on
the air.
Now let's rejoin Vows2Keep Radiowith David and Tracy Sellers.
SPEAKER_01 (10:41):
And all those things start now.
SPEAKER_03 (10:43):
Someday, Dad, I helped the parent of 20 kids.
SPEAKER_01 (10:47):
Twenty kids is a lot, hope.
SPEAKER_03 (10:48):
Yeah, I have no idea how to do it.
What advice do you have onparenting?
SPEAKER_01 (10:52):
That's a great question.
I think it starts byunderstanding the purpose that
we have as a parent to make ourkids' lives successful, not in
my eyes as your dad, or in youreyes as someday someone's mom,
but by God's standards.
Your kids are not here to pleaseyou with their lives.
(11:13):
You're not the ultimateauthority in their lives, and I
think that's a really hard thingfor a lot of parents to grasp.
You've got to teach your kidsthat the Word of God and God
Himself, through the power ofthe Holy Spirit, is the
authority in our lives, and Ibelieve that they're gonna learn
that by watching what you do, awhole lot more than what you
say, in fact.
I also always encourage parentsto never run from the
(11:37):
discipline.
There is so much gain that comesfrom doing the work of
discipline, and we learn this bylooking at God's word.
Ross, would you mind reading forus Proverbs three twelve as well
as Hebrews twelve verses fivethrough eleven.
I know you touched on thatpartly here just a minute ago,
but I'd like you to read thatwhole section.
SPEAKER_02 (11:59):
For the Lord corrects those who he loves,
just as a father corrects achild in whom he delights.
And then Hebrews, and have youcompletely forgotten this word
of encouragement that addressesyou as a father addresses his
son?
It says, My son, do not makelight of the Lord's discipline,
and do not lose heart when herebukes you, because the Lord
disciplines the one he loves,and he chastens everyone he
(12:19):
accepts as his son.
Endure hardship as discipline,for God is treating you as his
children.
For what children are notdisciplined by their father?
If you are not disciplined, andeveryone undergoes discipline,
then you are not legitimate, nottrue sons and daughters at all.
Moreover, we have all had humanfathers who disciplined us, and
we respected them for it.
How much more then should wesubmit to the Father of Spirits
(12:41):
and live?
They disciplined us for a littlewhile as they thought best, but
God disciplines us for our good,in order that we may share in
his holiness.
No discipline seems pleasant atthe time, but painful.
Later on, however, it produces aharvest of righteousness and
peace for those who have beentrained by it.
SPEAKER_01 (12:57):
There's so much wisdom packed into this, and I
think it's awesome that we seethis analogy of God disciplining
us as his children.
I could give you guys severalexamples of cases and times
where in my own life God hasdisciplined me, but done so out
of love.
I'm reminded of a gold firebird,in fact.
SPEAKER_02 (13:17):
If your mom was this story before.
SPEAKER_01 (13:20):
If your mom was here, she would be giggling at
me.
This car is a car that I hadmade an idol out of, and I was
about twenty three years old,and it was an LS1 Ramair
Firebird, a super awesome fastcar, and I just had to have this
car.
And I found one that waswrecked, and it was within a
price range I thought I couldafford, and that car turned into
(13:42):
an idol.
And God used that car todiscipline me, not only about
being a good steward of mymoney, but also about ensuring
that I didn't put things aheadof him.
And that's a lesson that all ofus as kids, as parents, struggle
with.
There's things that we turn intoidols of our heart, and pretty
soon we feel like we have tohave it.
(14:04):
And that is the kind ofdiscipline, the kind of love
that we see that God has for us.
He would never let us stay in aposition where we are taking him
out of the God seat.
Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_02 (14:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I do think we should touch onthe divorced parenting.
I definitely think that's worthtouching on because that's is a
way too common thing.
Children will just be able torun wild as much as they like at
one parent's house and then notwant to be at the other parent's
house because of how they'rebeing disciplined in God.
(14:35):
You know, the one parent willjust let anything fly, and the
other parent will be a believer.
But if the children don'tunderstand their parents' heart
for them and how they love themas they're disciplining them,
they'll just want their parentwho is not disciplining them
because that looks better rightnow.
SPEAKER_01 (14:48):
That's totally true, Ross.
And there is many people thatare listening today that are
dealing with split parentingsituations.
Sometimes that's throughdivorce, sometimes it's through
having children outside ofmarriage.
SPEAKER_03 (14:59):
I was reading a book and it was about this girl who
wanted a video game, and sheasked her dad if she could have
it, and he told her no.
So she asked her dad if shecould call her mom.
And he said, No, I know whatthat question is.
He wouldn't let her, but sheknew that her mom would most
likely let her if she asked her.
SPEAKER_01 (15:19):
And was that in a situation where there were
divorced parents?
SPEAKER_03 (15:22):
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (15:22):
Yeah.
It it is common.
We do the same thing as adults.
There's lots of times where welook to try to get the answer we
want out of a situation and willcontinually try to get the
answer we want, even if wereally realize that this
probably isn't the best thingfor us.
And the same thing is true withkids.
There are so many times where aparent who's doing the right
(15:45):
thing actually becomes what isperceived as an enemy to that
child.
That child will look at them assomeone who doesn't have their
best interest at heart becausethey won't give them what they
think they want at that moment.
God's word asks us to lookbeyond that.
God's word actually asks us tolove that child such that we
would actually be willing to putthat kind of discipline in
place.
(16:05):
And what I found throughcoaching many parents in this
situation is that kids actuallyrespond extremely well to having
known boundaries, and theyactually in the long run learn
the love that that parent hasfor them.
Going back to your question,Hope, about looking for advice
on how to parent someday whenyou're a parent, well, one of
the things I would tell you isyou want to avoid making rules
(16:28):
that suit your kingdom.
You've got to teach the biblicalprinciples that suit God's
kingdom.
Can you guys think of anyexamples of that right now in my
house that are a little bitweird?
They're not really followingGod's kingdom.
SPEAKER_02 (16:40):
Us kids, when we were, maybe I was like ten and
hope was seven probably, we uhhad this it was just this
ongoing contest where everynight when dad said, get ready
for bed, we would like start atthe line, dad would fire the
pistol and we would go to thebathroom as fast as we can to
brush our teeth.
And the first person to brushthe t their teeth won.
(17:00):
Well, of course, the thing is ifI lose to the bathroom and
Hope's there and she's alreadybrushing her teeth, what am I
gonna do?
I'm gonna booty bump her to theside and start brushing my own.
And then she's like, uh-uh, andshe pushes me back, and then
autumn comes into the fray, andso we're all just pushing each
other over, and more water'sgetting out of the sink than in
(17:21):
it.
And uh then mom and dad step inand they're like, Stop fighting,
and we're like, We're notfighting, we're racing.
But then eventually, you know,after like the billionth glob of
toothpaste went on the showerwall instead of in our mouths,
and they made the rule that youhave to wait outside the
bathroom while one personbrushes their teeth.
So we still do the race, youjust it's just to the bathroom
(17:42):
line.
But it's just kind of a rulethat one person in the bathroom
at a time it seems pretty silly.
SPEAKER_01 (17:48):
Well, and that's a great example, actually, Ross,
because there are so many timeswhere we build rules kind of
recognizing what our children'smaturity are.
Are they going to be able tounderstand what we're trying to
teach them?
And actually, what we reallyhave to teach you guys in that
situation is patience andputting others before yourself.
SPEAKER_02 (18:07):
But we never saw that at the time.
All we saw was that rule.
It was just the dumb rule.
SPEAKER_01 (18:12):
Yeah, well, and these are one of those things
that I think as a parent we haveto recognize is that our kids,
and now Ross, that you're 14years old, you're clearly to the
point where you're outgrowingthe rule.
I mean, we still have the rule,but we've got to make sure that
you understand the purposebehind this is actually letting
someone else go ahead of you,that you give them the
(18:33):
preference.
And then the other piece is thatyou would have the patience for
them to be able to complete whatthey're looking to do.
As parents, we've got to makesure that what we're doing is
teaching our kids the biblicalprinciples, that the things that
are really addressing the heartlevel of those situations, and
that we don't miss theopportunity by simply putting in
place a bunch of stupid rulesthat put fake boundaries in our
(18:54):
kids' life because they're goingto eventually outgrow that law.
And when they get out into thereal world, the boundaries
aren't going to be aroundtoothpaste on the shower walls
or around the bathroom.
Those are going to be the kindof things that bring great
disturbances into your ownmarriages if you've not learned
how to put someone else first.
Let me ask you guys thisquestion.
How are some ways that ourmarriage is shaping your
(19:17):
marriages to come?
SPEAKER_02 (19:19):
I like to think about the future sometimes my
marriage, if I ever have one.
And I think about what would Ido in this certain situation
always, every single time, Ialways end up thinking of you
and mom, what would you do?
Because you have a godlymarriage, and so you're totally
affecting my thought processesand uh my future and what I
would do in a marriagesituation, uh sometimes when
(19:41):
parents fight the kids and Ilook at them and they're like, I
guess we can do that, and sothey'll end up fighting a lot,
and some parents they won'tdiscipline their kids for that,
so like, well, I guess that'snot wrong.
SPEAKER_03 (19:52):
And so they'll go on fighting and they're not gonna
end up with any friends, andthey're not gonna end up with
good marriage when they'refighting with their spouse.
SPEAKER_01 (20:00):
Have you ever seen mommy and daddy fight before?
She's shaking her head, yes.
But do you see us come togetherin a God honoring way after
that?
SPEAKER_03 (20:07):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:07):
And I think that's a a very important point I want to
make.
What hope is saying is not thatTracy and I are perfect and that
we never have disagreements, butone thing that we do is make
very sure that we put God at thecenter of those conversations.
And anytime we have adisagreement, we work really
hard to make sure our kids notonly see the disagreement, they
understand what that looks like,but they also see what making up
(20:28):
looks like.
And they see that we arecommitted not only to God, but
to each other.
Another piece of advice I'd havefor you, Hope, is to really
understand how your childreceives love.
Now, each of my three childrenare very different about what
spells love to each of them.
And the reason that this is soimportant to understand is that
there's much like marriage,there's lots of ways that you
(20:49):
can be trying to love yourchildren in what means the most
to you.
And I see this happen a lot,especially dads, where words of
affirmation are extremelyimportant to them, or physical
touch is very important to them,that they try to do those same
things for their children.
And maybe your child is someonewho really responds very well to
just having that quality timetogether, that shoulder-to-shoul
(21:10):
time.
The reason this is so importantis that as you come to know your
kids, you've got to be willingto adapt to what are the ways
that love is going to be bestunderstood.
So for you, Hope, every night asyou're going to bed, we have our
little tickle contest, right?
For you, physical touch issomething which is really
important.
I think also that quality timeis something which you really
(21:32):
eat up a lot of.
Yeah.
Ross, for you, words ofaffirmation are really
important.
When you're able to see that I'mpleased with you, that I'm able
to compliment you on somethingyou're doing.
That I can see makes a bigimpact to you.
SPEAKER_02 (21:46):
I think your love language too is quality time.
You love it when I come to thegarage with you and we work on
cars and we talk.
We spend time together, and Ican tell that really affects you
more.
Instead of me cooking the eggsfor you, you would really care
about the time we spent overbreakfast talking, uh and just
being father and son.
SPEAKER_01 (22:06):
I see Autumn, our oldest daughter, who's not here
with us today, uh a lot of timesthat means a lot to her is
quality time and acts ofservice.
When I am able to serve her andable to see how much that means
to her, it's super cool.
You know, the last piece ofadvice I'd have for you, Hope,
about how to be a God-honoringparent is to make sure that you
(22:26):
keep your priorities in yourlife straight.
I see over and over again whereparents actually put their
children before their marriage,and even at times put their
children before God.
And that is something which Ithink scripture would support
otherwise.
Scripture supports that thereshould be no God before him.
(22:47):
There can be no other idols inour life, and that includes your
children.
So, what that means is thatGod's number one, your marriage
is number two, and your childrenare number three.
And many people feel like, ohman, that's devastating to your
child to have them hear that.
Are either of you devastated bythat statement?
SPEAKER_03 (23:02):
Not really.
Definitely not.
SPEAKER_01 (23:04):
Because what you see is Tracy and I are in love with
each other, and you guys get theoverflow of that love, right?
Because there's many cases whereyou do have to prioritize things
in life.
Will you spend time readingGod's word?
Will you spend time encouragingyour friends?
Will you spend time taking yourspouse on a date?
Will you spend time at work?
Will you spend time playing withyour children?
(23:24):
All these things are a constantbalancing act for a parent.
And when we get those things outof whack and we spend our
efforts on priorities that don'talign with what God's asking of
us, pretty soon you're going tofind that as a parent, the sky
begins to fall.
So is your relationship with Godthe way it should be?
If it is, then the next questionis, is your relationship with
(23:45):
your spouse the way it shouldbe?
If it is, then the next questionshould be, is your relationship
with your kids the way theyshould be?
As we wrap up today, thank youguys so much for joining us.
You're welcome.
SPEAKER_03 (23:54):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (23:55):
And I want to encourage you as mom and dad to
make sure that your heart isfocused on obeying God's word as
parents.
This is not an easy job, but youknow what?
It goes a lot better when wefollow God's word.
SPEAKER_02 (24:06):
We're out of time, but I would invite you to tune
in for week two of our parenting101 as we talk about some finer
points of parenting.
SPEAKER_00 (24:13):
Vows to Keep is supported by a team which
includes biblical coaches,writers, and pastoral advisors.
If you have a desire to servemarriages in your community, we
would love to hear from you.
Vows to Keep is a not-for-profitmarriage ministry designed to
bring God's encouraging truth tothe marriages of our area.
As a not-for-profitorganization, our commitment to
Christ-like marriages includesproviding much-needed services
(24:36):
regardless of a couple'sfinancial ability to offset the
cost of Vows to Keep operations.
If you are unable to donate yourtime or abilities, but would
like to help support Vows2Keepfinancially, visit
vowstoKeep.com and click on thedonate link.
This program is sponsored byVows2Keep of Zanesfield, Ohio.
Welcome to Vows to Keep Radio with David and Tracy
Sellers.
The mission of Vows to Keep isto help couples develop a
biblically healthy marriagethrough the application of God's
word and a deeper relationshipwith Him.
They desire to help you and yourspouse grow closer to each other
and closer to the heart of God'sdesign for your marriage.
Now, here's David and Tracy withtoday's broadcast.
SPEAKER_03 (00:26):
Hi, my name is Hope.
SPEAKER_02 (00:27):
I am Ross, and our parents have made vows to keep.
SPEAKER_01 (00:32):
Well, ladies and gentlemen, I have two very
special guests on today'sbroadcast, two of my children.
We are going to be talking aboutparenting and about being
children in today's Christianhomes.
This will be interview stylebetween the three of us, a
little bit of back and forthbetween Hope and Ross and I to
get us started.
Hope, why do you think that Godgave us parents?
SPEAKER_03 (00:54):
To have them take care of us.
SPEAKER_01 (00:56):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (00:57):
And to provide for our needs, to give us what we
can't get.
Like since we don't have a job,we can't earn the money to go
ourselves, you know, shelter ourfood, but our parents can.
SPEAKER_02 (01:10):
We really didn't have a choice when we got the
parents.
I mean, I kind of wish I couldchoose my parents sometimes.
Like, hmm, this one looks prettynice, but I got good parents.
I think they're our mentors.
A lot of times they don't getthe gratitude that they deserve,
but they do a lot of stuff inour lives that we will probably
never fully realize until we'reparents and doing the same
things for our kids, and we'llthink, wow, my parents worked
(01:33):
really hard for me.
SPEAKER_03 (01:34):
Dan, why do you think God gave you children?
SPEAKER_01 (01:37):
I think there's a lot of parents that they think
to themselves, Well, Iunderstand the mechanics of what
got children into my life, butthat is absolutely not the
purpose.
That's not why God has given uschildren.
I believe that God has given uschildren to go and make
disciples of all nations.
We can find in Matthew 28.
Jesus came and said, Therefore,go and make disciples of all
(02:00):
nations, baptizing in the nameof the Father, the Son, and the
Holy Spirit, and teaching themto obey everything I have
commanded you.
And surely I'm with you alwaysto the very end of the age.
As I look at you guys and Ithink about where your kids as
kids as kids will go and spreadthe gospel.
SPEAKER_02 (02:17):
It's kind of a mind-boggling thought.
Let's move on to the nextquestion.
What's the most important thingsthat parents should know about
their children as they parentthem?
SPEAKER_01 (02:26):
That's a great question, Ross.
I think that one of the mostimportant things is knowing your
child's heart and being aware ofthe kind of things that trip
them up in life, much likeunderstanding how God knows our
heart.
And I put a lot of parallels inmy life between myself and my
heavenly father, and myself andyou as your physical father.
(02:47):
Oftentimes anticipating whatyour needs are, or maybe even
anticipating what might betemptations for you, are vital
to the choices that I'm going tomake as a parent.
Not only about when I might bebringing discipline into your
life, but also at times whereI'm going to recognize, okay,
this is coming in at a levelthat's probably higher than they
understand, and right now I justneed to help give them a guiding
(03:09):
rule, and it's less about themreally understanding the heart
behind it.
What do you guys think is themost important thing that as
kids you guys need to know aboutyour parents as they are
parenting you?
SPEAKER_02 (03:22):
That's a tough one.
SPEAKER_03 (03:23):
Yeah.
I mean, they might need toknow 'cause some kids they think
that the world revolves aroundthem, but they might not even
realize that their parents haveother things to do besides them.
So they're like, then why don'tyou give me this and you should
give me that?
My parents are trying to doother things.
So they need to realize thattheir parents have other things
besides them.
SPEAKER_02 (03:44):
I think kind of the same thing that you said, Dad,
about knowing our hearts is thatwe have to know your heart and w
why you're disciplining us.
Because if you were doing it outof anger, then uh that wouldn't
be right.
But since we know your heart, weknow that you are disciplining
us because you love us and youcare for us and you want a
better future for us.
And uh the better future for uswouldn't be that we would just
(04:07):
get everything we want foreighteen years and then fail
when we're on our own.
But the better future for uswould be that you would teach us
now, kind of like Hebrewstwelve, verse eleven says, No
discipline seems pleasant at thetime but painful.
Later on, however, it produces aharvest of righteousness and
peace for those who have beentrained by it.
So it's not gonna be pleasantnow.
I never like being grounded byelectronics, I probably never
(04:29):
will.
However, I'm gonna know thatlesson from when I learned it
when I was thirteen or fourteen,and I'm gonna be able to use it
for the rest of my life.
Let's move on to the nextquestion.
SPEAKER_03 (04:39):
How did grace and discipline work against each
other or for each other?
SPEAKER_01 (04:43):
That's a great question.
I think many parents, as Rosspointed out, are motivated by
our anger to discipline.
You as a child maybe have donesomething which offends us or or
really bothers us.
I can remember a time when Rosswas a little baby, and I had
just got done changing hisdiaper.
Only to find that he messed hisdiaper a second time and then
(05:05):
proceeded to barf at the sametime.
And of course, I had just gotdone cleaning him up and I was
like, oh, Ross.
Thankfully, he was too young tounderstand my anger.
And I want to give that examplebecause parents have that time
before their child can actuallyunderstand to gain maturity.
When I was a dad of young littlebabies who couldn't really
(05:25):
understand my words, there wasoftentimes where I failed as a
parent.
I let my frustration in asituation cause my words to not
be what they should be.
And I think in God's grace, Hehas given us as parents that
first year to two years to whereour kids don't totally
understand what we're doing forus to get our own act together.
(05:46):
God uses situations like thedouble barrel diaper barfing
combo move to teach me as a dadpatience.
And I had to realize that littleRoss at the time wasn't out to
get me.
In fact, I couldn't teach himanything about what he was
doing.
Instead, God used you, Ross, toteach me.
I find God's providence in howhe provides for us to become
(06:07):
ready for the next stage ofparenting all over the place.
That is grace.
But when we talk about grace,many parents are thinking about
a time where their kiddo hasmessed up and they're wondering
to themselves, listen, should Ijust let it go?
Or should I bring in somediscipline?
And that might be that they'refive years old, that might be
they're 15 years old.
I want to say this not providingdiscipline when it's truly
(06:29):
needed by our kids is not givingthem grace.
It's actually setting them upfor further future failures.
We all love grace.
But making a decision betweengrace and discipline is really
not a decision at all.
In fact, what it is is payingattention to what are your
child's real needs versus whatthey feel their needs are.
Let me give an example.
(06:49):
And this is one that as aparents we often struggle with.
Not long ago, I was talking witha gentleman who really felt like
he needed a new car.
Now, he was someone who wantedto go into ministry.
That was his goal, but he reallywanted this new car.
Through our conversation, wewere able to establish that you
know what?
Yeah, your old car is maybe notquite as shiny and nice, but
(07:12):
it's still getting you by.
The real need is to payattention to the wisdom that we
find in Proverbs 22.
It says, The rich rule over thepoor, and the borrower is a
slave to the lender.
So his real need was to prayabout this and see whether he
really felt God was leading himto it.
And if it was in fact where Godwas leading him, it would become
time to start to save.
(07:33):
And once he had amassed all themoney needed to buy that car, go
ahead and do it.
Going into debt would haveovercommitted the time that he
would have liked to have spentvolunteering in ministry and
would have forced him to spendthat time at work.
And that's the same thing thathappens in parenting, to look at
what are your real needs andwhat are the needs you perceive.
And there's times where I haveto be willing to give you grace
(07:55):
on what you think you need, butbe paying attention to how I
might need to teach ordiscipline on what your real
needs are.
SPEAKER_02 (08:02):
To all the kids, a shout out to all the poor little
kids out there who have hadbraces.
You hate them, I hate them, butthey're good for us.
So after you get braces done, incase you don't know, you get to
have them taken off.
It's the best thing in theworld.
Uh you get a retainer after thatand you have to wear it to keep
your teeth in the right place.
The problem is that they areclear and tiny and you you lose
(08:23):
them.
And so I lost mine once and Ihad to replace it.
And uh I had this felt needbefore I lost my retainer that I
just had to buy this really niceRC car from Walmart, and I
bought it.
And uh it felt good for a littlewhile, then I lost a retainer,
and they cost about 175 bucks,and so I had to go into debt to
(08:44):
replace it.
What my felt need was was that Ineeded this toy right now.
What I didn't realize was thatmy real need was going to be
more immediate there, and sofrom now on I've always had$200
on hand.
So if I lose a retainer at anytime, I can replace it.
SPEAKER_01 (09:00):
Yeah, that's a great example, Ross.
There's a lot of times where asparents we've missed the boat to
teach our kids about how to stayout of debt.
There's been several goodtraining lessons along the ways
with retainers because it'staught you guys a lot about
keeping track of stuff andhaving responsibility uh for
those.
SPEAKER_02 (09:17):
Definitely.
SPEAKER_01 (09:18):
So to wrap up your question, Hope, the way that you
balance grace and discipline,they literally run hand in hand
with each other.
Knowing what your child reallyneeds can actually be giving
them grace when you aredisciplining them.
I look at it like this when I amout of your lives, three, four
years, Ross, you're gonna beleaving the house and then she's
(09:40):
holding up her fingers.
In seven years, hope is gonna bealso an adult and you're gonna
be starting a life of your own.
The most important thing that Ican do is make sure that you
understand God's grace, that youalso understand God's
discipline.
And I don't ever want it to bethat I constantly remove the
discipline from your life,remove the consequences out of
(10:02):
your life to the degree that youexpect perfect ease in the
world.
SPEAKER_02 (10:06):
You're not ready to be hit by all the needs of the
world that are gonna come on youhard and fast, you'll you're
just gonna buckle.
SPEAKER_01 (10:13):
Yeah, if you are literally the center of your
parents' world and of your ownworld, when you get into the
real world, you find that's justnot how it works.
And then on top of that, we'reasked as Christians to make God
the center of our world.
SPEAKER_00 (10:27):
If you have a marriage question, please email
questions at vows2keep.com.
Vows2Keep will respond to youvia email and perhaps use it on
the air.
Now let's rejoin Vows2Keep Radiowith David and Tracy Sellers.
SPEAKER_01 (10:41):
And all those things start now.
SPEAKER_03 (10:43):
Someday, Dad, I helped the parent of 20 kids.
SPEAKER_01 (10:47):
Twenty kids is a lot, hope.
SPEAKER_03 (10:48):
Yeah, I have no idea how to do it.
What advice do you have onparenting?
SPEAKER_01 (10:52):
That's a great question.
I think it starts byunderstanding the purpose that
we have as a parent to make ourkids' lives successful, not in
my eyes as your dad, or in youreyes as someday someone's mom,
but by God's standards.
Your kids are not here to pleaseyou with their lives.
(11:13):
You're not the ultimateauthority in their lives, and I
think that's a really hard thingfor a lot of parents to grasp.
You've got to teach your kidsthat the Word of God and God
Himself, through the power ofthe Holy Spirit, is the
authority in our lives, and Ibelieve that they're gonna learn
that by watching what you do, awhole lot more than what you
say, in fact.
I also always encourage parentsto never run from the
(11:37):
discipline.
There is so much gain that comesfrom doing the work of
discipline, and we learn this bylooking at God's word.
Ross, would you mind reading forus Proverbs three twelve as well
as Hebrews twelve verses fivethrough eleven.
I know you touched on thatpartly here just a minute ago,
but I'd like you to read thatwhole section.
SPEAKER_02 (11:59):
For the Lord corrects those who he loves,
just as a father corrects achild in whom he delights.
And then Hebrews, and have youcompletely forgotten this word
of encouragement that addressesyou as a father addresses his
son?
It says, My son, do not makelight of the Lord's discipline,
and do not lose heart when herebukes you, because the Lord
disciplines the one he loves,and he chastens everyone he
(12:19):
accepts as his son.
Endure hardship as discipline,for God is treating you as his
children.
For what children are notdisciplined by their father?
If you are not disciplined, andeveryone undergoes discipline,
then you are not legitimate, nottrue sons and daughters at all.
Moreover, we have all had humanfathers who disciplined us, and
we respected them for it.
How much more then should wesubmit to the Father of Spirits
(12:41):
and live?
They disciplined us for a littlewhile as they thought best, but
God disciplines us for our good,in order that we may share in
his holiness.
No discipline seems pleasant atthe time, but painful.
Later on, however, it produces aharvest of righteousness and
peace for those who have beentrained by it.
SPEAKER_01 (12:57):
There's so much wisdom packed into this, and I
think it's awesome that we seethis analogy of God disciplining
us as his children.
I could give you guys severalexamples of cases and times
where in my own life God hasdisciplined me, but done so out
of love.
I'm reminded of a gold firebird,in fact.
SPEAKER_02 (13:17):
If your mom was this story before.
SPEAKER_01 (13:20):
If your mom was here, she would be giggling at
me.
This car is a car that I hadmade an idol out of, and I was
about twenty three years old,and it was an LS1 Ramair
Firebird, a super awesome fastcar, and I just had to have this
car.
And I found one that waswrecked, and it was within a
price range I thought I couldafford, and that car turned into
(13:42):
an idol.
And God used that car todiscipline me, not only about
being a good steward of mymoney, but also about ensuring
that I didn't put things aheadof him.
And that's a lesson that all ofus as kids, as parents, struggle
with.
There's things that we turn intoidols of our heart, and pretty
soon we feel like we have tohave it.
(14:04):
And that is the kind ofdiscipline, the kind of love
that we see that God has for us.
He would never let us stay in aposition where we are taking him
out of the God seat.
Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_02 (14:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I do think we should touch onthe divorced parenting.
I definitely think that's worthtouching on because that's is a
way too common thing.
Children will just be able torun wild as much as they like at
one parent's house and then notwant to be at the other parent's
house because of how they'rebeing disciplined in God.
(14:35):
You know, the one parent willjust let anything fly, and the
other parent will be a believer.
But if the children don'tunderstand their parents' heart
for them and how they love themas they're disciplining them,
they'll just want their parentwho is not disciplining them
because that looks better rightnow.
SPEAKER_01 (14:48):
That's totally true, Ross.
And there is many people thatare listening today that are
dealing with split parentingsituations.
Sometimes that's throughdivorce, sometimes it's through
having children outside ofmarriage.
SPEAKER_03 (14:59):
I was reading a book and it was about this girl who
wanted a video game, and sheasked her dad if she could have
it, and he told her no.
So she asked her dad if shecould call her mom.
And he said, No, I know whatthat question is.
He wouldn't let her, but sheknew that her mom would most
likely let her if she asked her.
SPEAKER_01 (15:19):
And was that in a situation where there were
divorced parents?
SPEAKER_03 (15:22):
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (15:22):
Yeah.
It it is common.
We do the same thing as adults.
There's lots of times where welook to try to get the answer we
want out of a situation and willcontinually try to get the
answer we want, even if wereally realize that this
probably isn't the best thingfor us.
And the same thing is true withkids.
There are so many times where aparent who's doing the right
(15:45):
thing actually becomes what isperceived as an enemy to that
child.
That child will look at them assomeone who doesn't have their
best interest at heart becausethey won't give them what they
think they want at that moment.
God's word asks us to lookbeyond that.
God's word actually asks us tolove that child such that we
would actually be willing to putthat kind of discipline in
place.
(16:05):
And what I found throughcoaching many parents in this
situation is that kids actuallyrespond extremely well to having
known boundaries, and theyactually in the long run learn
the love that that parent hasfor them.
Going back to your question,Hope, about looking for advice
on how to parent someday whenyou're a parent, well, one of
the things I would tell you isyou want to avoid making rules
(16:28):
that suit your kingdom.
You've got to teach the biblicalprinciples that suit God's
kingdom.
Can you guys think of anyexamples of that right now in my
house that are a little bitweird?
They're not really followingGod's kingdom.
SPEAKER_02 (16:40):
Us kids, when we were, maybe I was like ten and
hope was seven probably, we uhhad this it was just this
ongoing contest where everynight when dad said, get ready
for bed, we would like start atthe line, dad would fire the
pistol and we would go to thebathroom as fast as we can to
brush our teeth.
And the first person to brushthe t their teeth won.
(17:00):
Well, of course, the thing is ifI lose to the bathroom and
Hope's there and she's alreadybrushing her teeth, what am I
gonna do?
I'm gonna booty bump her to theside and start brushing my own.
And then she's like, uh-uh, andshe pushes me back, and then
autumn comes into the fray, andso we're all just pushing each
other over, and more water'sgetting out of the sink than in
(17:21):
it.
And uh then mom and dad step inand they're like, Stop fighting,
and we're like, We're notfighting, we're racing.
But then eventually, you know,after like the billionth glob of
toothpaste went on the showerwall instead of in our mouths,
and they made the rule that youhave to wait outside the
bathroom while one personbrushes their teeth.
So we still do the race, youjust it's just to the bathroom
(17:42):
line.
But it's just kind of a rulethat one person in the bathroom
at a time it seems pretty silly.
SPEAKER_01 (17:48):
Well, and that's a great example, actually, Ross,
because there are so many timeswhere we build rules kind of
recognizing what our children'smaturity are.
Are they going to be able tounderstand what we're trying to
teach them?
And actually, what we reallyhave to teach you guys in that
situation is patience andputting others before yourself.
SPEAKER_02 (18:07):
But we never saw that at the time.
All we saw was that rule.
It was just the dumb rule.
SPEAKER_01 (18:12):
Yeah, well, and these are one of those things
that I think as a parent we haveto recognize is that our kids,
and now Ross, that you're 14years old, you're clearly to the
point where you're outgrowingthe rule.
I mean, we still have the rule,but we've got to make sure that
you understand the purposebehind this is actually letting
someone else go ahead of you,that you give them the
(18:33):
preference.
And then the other piece is thatyou would have the patience for
them to be able to complete whatthey're looking to do.
As parents, we've got to makesure that what we're doing is
teaching our kids the biblicalprinciples, that the things that
are really addressing the heartlevel of those situations, and
that we don't miss theopportunity by simply putting in
place a bunch of stupid rulesthat put fake boundaries in our
(18:54):
kids' life because they're goingto eventually outgrow that law.
And when they get out into thereal world, the boundaries
aren't going to be aroundtoothpaste on the shower walls
or around the bathroom.
Those are going to be the kindof things that bring great
disturbances into your ownmarriages if you've not learned
how to put someone else first.
Let me ask you guys thisquestion.
How are some ways that ourmarriage is shaping your
(19:17):
marriages to come?
SPEAKER_02 (19:19):
I like to think about the future sometimes my
marriage, if I ever have one.
And I think about what would Ido in this certain situation
always, every single time, Ialways end up thinking of you
and mom, what would you do?
Because you have a godlymarriage, and so you're totally
affecting my thought processesand uh my future and what I
would do in a marriagesituation, uh sometimes when
(19:41):
parents fight the kids and Ilook at them and they're like, I
guess we can do that, and sothey'll end up fighting a lot,
and some parents they won'tdiscipline their kids for that,
so like, well, I guess that'snot wrong.
SPEAKER_03 (19:52):
And so they'll go on fighting and they're not gonna
end up with any friends, andthey're not gonna end up with
good marriage when they'refighting with their spouse.
SPEAKER_01 (20:00):
Have you ever seen mommy and daddy fight before?
She's shaking her head, yes.
But do you see us come togetherin a God honoring way after
that?
SPEAKER_03 (20:07):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:07):
And I think that's a a very important point I want to
make.
What hope is saying is not thatTracy and I are perfect and that
we never have disagreements, butone thing that we do is make
very sure that we put God at thecenter of those conversations.
And anytime we have adisagreement, we work really
hard to make sure our kids notonly see the disagreement, they
understand what that looks like,but they also see what making up
(20:28):
looks like.
And they see that we arecommitted not only to God, but
to each other.
Another piece of advice I'd havefor you, Hope, is to really
understand how your childreceives love.
Now, each of my three childrenare very different about what
spells love to each of them.
And the reason that this is soimportant to understand is that
there's much like marriage,there's lots of ways that you
(20:49):
can be trying to love yourchildren in what means the most
to you.
And I see this happen a lot,especially dads, where words of
affirmation are extremelyimportant to them, or physical
touch is very important to them,that they try to do those same
things for their children.
And maybe your child is someonewho really responds very well to
just having that quality timetogether, that shoulder-to-shoul
(21:10):
time.
The reason this is so importantis that as you come to know your
kids, you've got to be willingto adapt to what are the ways
that love is going to be bestunderstood.
So for you, Hope, every night asyou're going to bed, we have our
little tickle contest, right?
For you, physical touch issomething which is really
important.
I think also that quality timeis something which you really
(21:32):
eat up a lot of.
Yeah.
Ross, for you, words ofaffirmation are really
important.
When you're able to see that I'mpleased with you, that I'm able
to compliment you on somethingyou're doing.
That I can see makes a bigimpact to you.
SPEAKER_02 (21:46):
I think your love language too is quality time.
You love it when I come to thegarage with you and we work on
cars and we talk.
We spend time together, and Ican tell that really affects you
more.
Instead of me cooking the eggsfor you, you would really care
about the time we spent overbreakfast talking, uh and just
being father and son.
SPEAKER_01 (22:06):
I see Autumn, our oldest daughter, who's not here
with us today, uh a lot of timesthat means a lot to her is
quality time and acts ofservice.
When I am able to serve her andable to see how much that means
to her, it's super cool.
You know, the last piece ofadvice I'd have for you, Hope,
about how to be a God-honoringparent is to make sure that you
(22:26):
keep your priorities in yourlife straight.
I see over and over again whereparents actually put their
children before their marriage,and even at times put their
children before God.
And that is something which Ithink scripture would support
otherwise.
Scripture supports that thereshould be no God before him.
(22:47):
There can be no other idols inour life, and that includes your
children.
So, what that means is thatGod's number one, your marriage
is number two, and your childrenare number three.
And many people feel like, ohman, that's devastating to your
child to have them hear that.
Are either of you devastated bythat statement?
SPEAKER_03 (23:02):
Not really.
Definitely not.
SPEAKER_01 (23:04):
Because what you see is Tracy and I are in love with
each other, and you guys get theoverflow of that love, right?
Because there's many cases whereyou do have to prioritize things
in life.
Will you spend time readingGod's word?
Will you spend time encouragingyour friends?
Will you spend time taking yourspouse on a date?
Will you spend time at work?
Will you spend time playing withyour children?
(23:24):
All these things are a constantbalancing act for a parent.
And when we get those things outof whack and we spend our
efforts on priorities that don'talign with what God's asking of
us, pretty soon you're going tofind that as a parent, the sky
begins to fall.
So is your relationship with Godthe way it should be?
If it is, then the next questionis, is your relationship with
(23:45):
your spouse the way it shouldbe?
If it is, then the next questionshould be, is your relationship
with your kids the way theyshould be?
As we wrap up today, thank youguys so much for joining us.
You're welcome.
SPEAKER_03 (23:54):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (23:55):
And I want to encourage you as mom and dad to
make sure that your heart isfocused on obeying God's word as
parents.
This is not an easy job, but youknow what?
It goes a lot better when wefollow God's word.
SPEAKER_02 (24:06):
We're out of time, but I would invite you to tune
in for week two of our parenting101 as we talk about some finer
points of parenting.
SPEAKER_00 (24:13):
Vows to Keep is supported by a team which
includes biblical coaches,writers, and pastoral advisors.
If you have a desire to servemarriages in your community, we
would love to hear from you.
Vows to Keep is a not-for-profitmarriage ministry designed to
bring God's encouraging truth tothe marriages of our area.
As a not-for-profitorganization, our commitment to
Christ-like marriages includesproviding much-needed services
(24:36):
regardless of a couple'sfinancial ability to offset the
cost of Vows to Keep operations.
If you are unable to donate yourtime or abilities, but would
like to help support Vows2Keepfinancially, visit
vowstoKeep.com and click on thedonate link.
This program is sponsored byVows2Keep of Zanesfield, Ohio.
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