March 31, 2025 • 24 mins
How Your Marriage Can Leave a Lasting Legacy :: [Ep. 262]
What kind of legacy are you building through your marriage? We are exploring just how our love and marriage relationship can grow a beautiful legacy that can be passed down from generation to generation. This episode will cover the following:
- Address heart issues behind communication problems in marriage
- Reflect on the legacy we leave: good or bad, spiritual or material
- Provide practical steps for listeners to begin crafting their personal legacies
Join us in this insightful discussion and be inspired to make actionable changes in your relationships! Don’t forget to subscribe, share, and leave a review!
For episode transcripts, click HERE.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Vows to Keep Radio with David and Tracy
Sellers.
Our mission is to help couplesdevelop biblically healthy
marriages through theapplication of God's Word and a
deeper relationship with Him.
We desire to help you and yourspouse grow closer to each other
and closer to the heart ofGod's design for your marriage.
Now here's David and Tracy withtoday's broadcast.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Today on Vows to Keep Radio, we're wrapping up a
13-week series on how to help ahurting marriage.
This has been quite anadventure.
I hope you've felt the same.
Even though we can't see you,we know we're going shoulder to
shoulder with you and buildingbiblically healthy marriages,
and that means more than wordscan describe.
We've been counseling marriagesand teaching about godly
(00:44):
marriage for almost 20 years,but that doesn't mean we're high
and mighty experts.
What we do have, and what wehope you've gleaned from this
series, is the power of God'sword.
In this series, we've studiedover a dozen common things that
you might hear in conversationwith someone you care about
Everything from purpose toaccountability, to someone who
(01:05):
wants a divorce, to someonewho's fighting over their
finances.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Before we dive into this last topic today on legacy,
I want to tell you the storybehind the catalyst to this
series.
David and I were on our way toMenards one night after we'd had
a dinner date and, rather thango into the store to shop for
lumber, we ended up sitting inthe parking lot on the phone
with a good friend of ours.
She had called us, but let metell you it was a conversation
(01:30):
well worth having.
But her marriage wasn't the oneshe was calling about.
Her heart was so broken andtherefore moved to know what to
do about this friend of hers whohad just received some news
that her husband was having anaffair.
My friend had two requests Couldwe call this person that was in
her life and offer her someadvice and, in the meantime,
(01:52):
could we tell her what to say toher friend the next time they
were on the phone?
Well, david and I knew rightaway that we couldn't cold call
this person.
It would be like my mom tellingher doctor that I had problems
with my back and then asked thedoctor to call me at home to
offer his help.
I'm not very likely to run tohis office.
There's really a disconnectthere.
We don't make cold calls, butlet me tell you we were smiling
(02:16):
just the same as our friendtalked to us, because there was
something we could do.
We could help our friend, tohelp her friend.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
With God's word we can see he's done a perfect job
of equipping you and I to have ahealthy marriage.
His love for us is on displayin every page of the Bible.
He models for us the kind oflove that we're to give our
spouse, whether, in your view,they deserve it or not.
So we walked our friend throughsome scriptures, some concepts
(02:45):
that night that she could takeand directly apply.
When she talked to her friend,we didn't say anything magical.
There's no secret formula ortricks to this, but we did share
real truth from God's word that, when put into action, ends up
resulting in heart change andthen life change.
Her friend's marriage is stilltogether years later Now, not to
(03:06):
her credit or to ours, but toGod's glory.
You've got people like that inyour life, people that I hope
are listening to the leading ofthe Holy Spirit and telling you
the truth that you need to hear.
But I hope also there are otherpeople's lives that you are
speaking into.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
As we've gone through this series, we want to really
equip you to know that sometimesthe most obvious answer to a
question isn't the right one.
So let me tell you anotherstory to set this up.
A friend of mine asked merecently if I had any good book
recommendations aboutcommunication in marriage.
I would have loved to havegiven her a real quick answer
and said yeah sure, hey, readthis one.
(03:45):
But I know that communicationproblems are never just that.
Communication problems are heartproblems and we can't
communicate well if we don'tknow our savior, or we don't
know the purpose of our marriage, or if we're chasing after
idols that don't satisfy butwe're actually demanding that
our spouse gives us what wethink will satisfy.
That's going to causecommunication issues.
(04:10):
Or if my heart isn't right andI've got bitterness and
unforgiveness.
Well, I think you see where I'mgoing.
If we get our hearts rightfirst, then we don't really need
a book on communication.
When we have our verticalrelationship with our heavenly
father in that healthy spot, ourhorizontal relationships are
the way that they should be.
Now, I say all that aboutcommunication because addressing
the top layer of a problem willonly help for a moment.
(04:30):
Getting a facelift doesn't makemy cancer go away.
We have to learn to be reallygood listeners, tuning in to the
heart of a problem and not justthe symptoms when we're trying
to help a friend with a hurtingmarriage.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
When it comes to helping a hurting marriage.
The word legacy is probably notgoing to be brought up in those
initial conversations, but yourfriend might say some key words
, like things aboutcommunication or finances or
fighting.
What I want you to do is listenfor the clues.
The clues that say that legacyactually might very well be the
(05:04):
topic that you need to dig intowith them.
Things like hey, now that thekids are gone, we don't have
anything in common anymore, orwe're like roommates at this
stage in our relationship, orI'd rather have my life, he's
got his.
It's better that we do our ownthing.
Maybe they just are commentingon how much they enjoy their
(05:24):
alone time, being free of theirspouse.
These kind of words are the onesthat, if you listen too
carefully, you're going todistinguish that it's possible
they are missing the big pictureof marriage.
They don't understand that Godhas got a purpose in that
marriage and now God'spositioned you perfectly to help
them to see far off in thedistance, giving them some hope,
(05:46):
giving them some perspective.
You may not even need to usethe word legacy initially, but
that's where the conversation isheading.
When you do get to that point,you're going to experience what
we have when we mention aboutthe importance of leaving a good
legacy.
They'll always nod their headsand say yeah, of course.
Yeah, no, I want that.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Well, the good news is, it is a foregone conclusion
that they will indeed leave alegacy.
Well, the bad news is guesswhat?
They're going to leave a legacy.
All of us leave behindsomething for the generation
after us, whether it's good orbad.
There's not an option here, andwe're really not talking about
money at all.
This isn't an inheritance inany way, shape or form.
(06:31):
That's tangible.
If your bank account is spentbuilding God's kingdom and
you've got nothing financiallyto pass on to your kids when
you're gone, I would say goodjob.
Money is here today, gonetomorrow.
We really can't put any stockin it.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
What we're talking about today is a spiritual
legacy that starts with you andextends down through the
generations that are going tofollow you 20 years ago, around
the time that Tracy and I weregetting married, if you would
have gotten together all of theliving generations in the
Sellers family for a familyphoto, there would have been two
people in that picture me andmy dad.
No granddads, no greatgranddads, no children yet to
(07:02):
pass the family name on.
But now, 20 years later, we'renot too far away from having
four people in that picture mydad, me, my son and soon his
children.
But really, if you would havetaken that picture 20 years ago,
it's like my grandpa could havebeen in that picture.
Yeah, he's gone, but when I wasa boy he planted a good seed.
The day he became a ChristianFrom my dad and my grandfather,
(07:26):
I watched my faith take shape.
I actually became a Christian asa result of seeing the way that
my dad handled my grandfather'sdeath.
He didn't mourn like those whohad no hope.
No, instead, that was the daythat I put my hope in Jesus, and
today the branches of ourfamily legacy stretch out even
farther.
As we see, our children havecome to faith in Jesus too.
(07:48):
What I'm getting at is that inmy family my grandfather planted
a seed, and generationally Ican look back and see, he is one
of the heroes of the faith.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
In my family.
My grandpa was the first one togive his heart to the Lord
while he was overseas serving inthe Navy.
When he returned from war, hebegan to go to church with his
family and, as a result, my momand my dad raised me in church,
where I heard the truth of thegospel, and now we're doing the
same with our children.
I'd like to suggest, however,that there's a lot more to
leaving a godly legacy than justtelling your kids and grandkids
(08:21):
about God.
It's a perfect place to start,and we need to start with our
own faith, rooted and built upin Christ, but it can't stop
there.
When I became a Christian, Ibegan my faith journey as an
infant, and, to be honest, I wascompletely self-absorbed, but
beginning to grow in Christ as Ilearned what God's Word said.
What does he want me to do?
How can I begin to understandthis life of faith that I'm
(08:42):
beginning?
The thing about becoming aChristian, though, is it's
perfectly possible to remain ababy Christian my entire life,
or maybe I advance to being atoddler or a child in the faith,
but that's not the kind offaith I want to leave as a
legacy.
Jesus calls us, in Matthew,chapter 28, to go and make
disciples, and you've probablyheard us say this before, but
(09:05):
we're going to say it againWe've got to first disciple the
people in our very own family.
That's how we begin to build alegacy.
Our faith and our obedience toGod's word will, first and
foremost, be put to the testwithin those four walls of your
house.
If you could just see a videoof the last week of the
interactions between you andyour family within your house,
(09:25):
then you would know what I mean.
Legacy always comes from how welive our faith in Jesus every
day and in the roughest andtoughest of moments, when we
don't feel like loving ourspouse through their sin, when
we can't see anything good upahead, when we hear voices tell
us to just get out of this messyrelationship, when we can't
remember why we're sticking this.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Our sin.
Nature makes remaining aninfant in Christ the default.
We're focused on the troublesand the circumstances of the day
.
We live in the moment withouteven thinking about what's ahead
.
Sometimes I don't think we evenperceive that growth is
possible, so we don't reallystrive for it, especially when
things aren't going superawesome in our marriage
relationship.
(10:10):
We just hope to get through theday through this next
conversation.
So here's your friend feelinghopeless and having an eye on
legacy.
Well, that's just not on theirmind at all.
It's hard sometimes to connectour everyday choices with the
things that we can't see, thatfuture legacy.
That's where faith in God andobedience to his word and your
(10:30):
job in your friend's life is toput some light on this, helping
them to look up, to keep theireyes fixed on Jesus, to remember
the purpose of their marriage,so that they stop tripping over
what's wrong and stumbling overwhat's missing in their marriage
and remember that God really isup to something much bigger
than they can see in the hereand now.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
If you have a marriage question, please email
questions at vows2keepcom.
Vows to Keep will respond toyou via email and perhaps use it
on the air.
Now let's rejoin Vows to KeepRadio with David and Tracy
Sellers.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
We're going to spend a little bit of time here in
Hebrews, chapter 11.
And I know that this chapter islovingly referred to as the
heroes of the faith chapter, butcan I just add a little more to
that title?
Let's call it the faith andobedience chapter An awesome
place in the Bible where wespecifically see those two
things really convergingtogether faith and obedience.
(11:24):
It's a faith builder to readthrough the recounting of these
heroes that are listed in thischapter, to know that they were
real people who kept their eyeson the eternal rewards of their
faith, like Abel and Enoch andNoah and Abraham and Sarah and
Moses, and so many more.
If you look at each of theirstories, you're going to see
four things they have in common.
(11:46):
Number one, you guessed it theyhad faith.
Each one of them had such aheart of faith faith beyond what
they could perceive or evenpredict.
Let me clarify this for you,though they did not have faith
in themselves.
They knew they had to put theirfaith in a God that could be
trusted, and they knew that hisway was better than theirs.
Each and every one of thesepeople believed in God's promise
(12:09):
to them, and that actuallychanged the way they live.
So one of the four thingsyou're going to see they all
have in common is obedience.
Their faith produced somethingthey could not conjure up on
their own specific obedience toGod.
God gives us the gift of faith.
That is a gift from him, andit's because of that gift, and
(12:32):
by his power working to changeour hearts, that we have the
ability to be obedient to hisword.
That's what he calls us to.
He says if you love me, youwill obey my commands.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
This leads us to the third thing about these fears of
the faith.
The thing they had in commonwas the choices.
Let's go pick on the Israelitesfor just a minute Hebrews 11 30
.
It was by faith that the peopleof Israel marched around
Jericho for seven days and thewalls come crashing down.
Now, the legacy that they werecreating for their nation didn't
happen in the moment the wallscrumbled.
(13:05):
That was the power of God ondisplay.
But think about what led up toit.
Day after day, they had to getup off the dusty ground.
They had to brush themselvesoff and go do something
physically taxing, certainlyhard to wrap their heads around.
What are we doing?
You're saying, if I march forseven days, god's going to do a
miracle.
Yep, that's our God for you.
When he speaks and we listenand act without argument and
(13:31):
follow through on his word,amazing things happen.
I hope what you can see is thatthese Old Testament stories are
still relevant to you and I andyour friend now.
God gives us these stories toshow us that he can be trusted.
Sometimes what we're hearing andseeing is unconventional, but
if you can help your friends seewhat God might be up to, to
(13:52):
help them to look further downthe road than where they are and
to ask them what is it that Godis specifically asking for you
and your spouse to do thatyou've been unwilling to follow
through on.
These are powerful places tostart and then pray, asking that
God would bring about a heartchange to really really help
them follow through, because itis actually possible to make
(14:15):
these little momentarybehavioral changes that look
like we're trying to line upwith God's word, but we all know
that doesn't stick around, thatdoesn't make lasting change.
For example, if I know that Ineed to speak kindly to Tracy,
even when I don't think shedeserves it, if I remember I'm
called to build her up ratherthan tear her down, I can make a
(14:35):
determination to do that.
But if it doesn't come from myheart, guess what?
It's going to quickly fail.
Now, if my faith is in my Lordand Savior, relying on his love
for me and knowing that he's gotmy back and he has things
planned beyond my ability to seethem, then my heart changes
toward Tracy, even in the worstmoments that we might have
together, and my faith in Godhelps me to want the obedience
(14:58):
to his word and the powerfulchanges it can bring when I am
obedient.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
What we want you to hear clearly today and to help
your friends see, is that faithbegets obedience and obedience
begets legacy.
And that's the fourth thingyou're going to see from each
one of these heroes.
In Hebrews 11, legacy.
Verse 13 says all these peopledied still believing what God
had promised them.
They did not receive what waspromised, but they saw it from a
(15:25):
distance and they welcomed it.
And that's what we need tostrive for.
The faith that got them on theright track in the very
beginning, that helped them tobe obedient and make those good
choices, kept them till the end,when they were each leaving
this world.
Each of these people plantedseeds for a future harvest, some
they wouldn't even see tillthey got to the other side of
(15:47):
eternity.
Your friend has been plantingseeds too, and maybe they're
kind of wrinkling their noseright now.
They're not liking this cropthat is popping up in their
marriage.
The seeds of sin and self thatwe plant.
They result in spiritual death.
There will always beconsequences for our sin.
We think what we do in the darkno one needs to know about, but
(16:08):
sin has a domino effect.
Galatians 6, 7 says dominoeffect.
Galatians 6, 7 says do not bedeceived.
God cannot be mocked.
A man reaps what he sows.
This applies in your friend'smarriage today.
Whoever sows to please theirflesh, verse eight says, from
the flesh will reap destruction.
Whoever sows to please thespirit, from the spirit will
reap eternal life.
(16:29):
Sin is going to corrupt ahealthy family tree.
But here's the flip side inHosea, chapter 10.
God says plant the good seedsof righteousness and you're
going to corrupt a healthyfamily tree.
But here's the flip side inHosea, chapter 10.
God says plant the good seedsof righteousness and you're
going to harvest a crop of love,a crop you're going to love.
Plow up the hard ground of yourhearts.
Now is the time to seek theLord that he may come and shower
righteousness upon you.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
It's in the seemingly insignificant things like
forgiving quickly and puttingaside my hobby to go hang out
with her, changing a nighttimeroutine to show my spouse I am
more into them than my personalpreferences.
It's respecting my spouse, notbecause they're always
respectable, but because they'remade in the image of God.
It's behind closed doors, inthe little moments where legacy
(17:13):
actually gets legs to stand on,not just that I have Christ as
my savior, but that I'm livingthe gospel in my life.
It's in action and these aredots you can connect for your
friend who's in that hurtingmarriage.
It's not necessarily that theyneed to have their eyes fixed on
legacy.
It's that they need to havetheir eyes fixed on their Savior
and as they follow him in thesetough moments, that beautiful
(17:35):
legacy will be built whilethey're not even looking.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
When David and I meet with a couple, we always give
some follow-through homework,and you can do the same thing
with your friend.
You can even dig into God'sword together.
But we've got six things thatwe think are good questions for
them to answer, for you to askthem.
Number one what does the Biblesay about inheritance and what
(17:59):
does the Bible say about legacy?
Open up God's word.
Flip to those passages.
Find out the truth that'scontained within the pages about
those topics.
Secondly, make a list of whatam I consistently doing that's
going to last into eternity.
That's a really good thing tospend some time in prayer about.
Third, have them ask theirspouse to help them see an
(18:21):
accurate representation of theircurrent legacy because,
honestly, that's the best personin their life to help them see
their blind spots.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Fourth, what action steps can I take to start
changing my legacy into one thatis eternal?
Fifth, how will living to leavea godly legacy affect my
marriage?
And finally, how will it affectmy children and my
grandchildren?
Your home may be full of anger,impatience, bitterness,
(18:51):
unforgiveness, materialism,sexual sin, malice and a whole
host of other sins that areleaving a legacy that you don't
want For your friend.
It may feel like this is theway it will always be, because
this is the way it's been for solong, but God has put you in
their life to encourage them.
There's a lot of hope packedinto the truth that it can look
(19:13):
different than it does right now.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
I believe that, too, god through us, can create a
family of faith.
Our marriage, your friend'smarriage, can be a legacy, and
it can look different for mychildren and grandchildren and
their children after that.
And we're going to go rightback to Hebrews, chapter 11.
It all starts with faith.
Ask God to increase your faithin him, ask him to help you to
get to know him better.
(19:37):
That is a prayer he will answerevery single time and remember
what comes next.
The seed of that faith is goingto produce obedience, and
obedience is seen in those small, seemingly insignificant
choices of our days.
Without us knowing it, theconstant decisions we make to
adhere our lives to God's wordbring about a harvest of an
(19:59):
amazing legacy, one where we canconfidently know that one day
we can stand before God and hearthose words well done, good and
faithful servant.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
The exciting thing to us is that, as we finish this
series with the focus on legacy,we know God is stirring some
hearts to be thinking beyondtheir own marriage.
God is raising your awarenessand, at the same time, calling
you to help hurting marriages ina more consistent way, people
who realize they could stepforward in obedience.
Saying yes, lord, I'm willingto be used in other people's
(20:33):
lives, in their marriages.
Saying yes, lord, I'm willingto be used in other people's
lives, in their marriages, tomeet them right where they're
hurting.
The world has made marriagecounseling some mystical science
, something expensive, somethingthat can only be done by paid
professionals.
Look around the world's way ofdefining and handling marriage
issues is not working.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
In John, chapter 14, the Holy Spirit is called our
counselor.
He not only resides within usas Christians throughout our
lives, he is working to discipleus, helping us become more
Christ-like.
Then he calls us to do the samething with others.
We see this in the GreatCommission go and make disciples
.
God made counseling to be partand parcel with discipleship.
God made discipleship a part ofall of our lives, not because
(21:15):
we're paid to, but because welove.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Most of the time, we don't say yes to God's call
because of one of two thingsFirst, we feel unprepared and
second, we have fear.
In Exodus, chapter three, godtalks to Moses and says this is
what I want you to do.
Go and speak my truth to mypeople.
I have a promised land want youto do.
Go and speak my truth to mypeople.
I have a promised land for themto enter.
I want to rescue them and I'musing you as my mouthpiece.
(21:41):
Does this sound like a marriageyou might know of?
They need God to lead them to apromised land that he's already
made ready for them.
But if you've ever read Exodusor know anything about Moses,
you'll know he didn't jump upand down at this opportunity,
moses pleaded with the Lord.
I'm not very good with words.
I never have been and I'm notnow and even though you've
(22:02):
spoken to me, I get tongue tiedand my words get tangled.
Send anyone else.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
Lord, please let that not be us.
Help us to say yes to you andunderstand that you're not going
to call us to something youwon't equip us for.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
God will not call you to speak to a hurting marriage
and then ask you to use your ownwords to make it up as you go.
He's given you the Bible.
He's given you the Holy Spiritto help you remember his word.
He's given the conviction ofthe Holy Spirit to help you
apply it not only to your ownmarriage but to any marriage you
come alongside to disciple.
But here's a caution for youtoday If you feel God pulling at
(22:40):
your heart strings to step upand say yes, don't discount
yourself because you're notqualified.
A year ago, tracy and I finishedcounseling with a couple who
had gone through some amazinglyhard things in their marriage
and in our final meeting withthis couple, they shared that
they had felt the call to be atool in God's hands for someone
(23:01):
else's marriage.
We talked in depth with themabout the training that we had
received through the Associationof Certified Biblical
Counselors, and it was so coolto see their eyes light up as
they considered what this couldlook like in their own life,
that God could use theirtestimony of his saving grace,
the way he saved their marriage,to share truth with others
(23:23):
people in the lowest of places,and that they wouldn't be alone.
In fact, a couple who's been onthe Bows to Keep team for
nearly eight years now hadwalked through a very similar
process team for nearly eightyears now, had walked through a
very similar process feeling thecalling after being changed by
the very application of thegospel in their marriage,
applied at a time when tragedywas finally being overtaken by
(23:46):
the truth of Jesus Christ.
What they can't see is theoutcome the fruit of God's word
spoken at just the right timewhen someone needs to hear it
the most.
God is mighty enough to takeour little acts of obedience and
turn them into something muchbigger.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
So what's the next step of faith you need to take
today to get equipped to helphurting marriages?
Pray about it and if you'd liketo continue the conversation,
reach out to us via our website,VowsToKeepcom.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Vows to Keep is supported by a team which
includes biblical coaches,writers and pastoral advisors.
If you have a desire to servemarriages in your community, we
would love to hear from you.
Vows to Keep is anot-for-profit marriage ministry
designed to bring God'sencouraging truth to the
marriages of our area.
As a not-for-profitorganization, our commitment to
Christlike marriages includesproviding much-needed services,
(24:39):
regardless of a couple'sfinancial ability to offset the
cost of Vows to Keep operations.
If you are unable to donateyour time or abilities, but
would like to help support Vowsto Keep financially, visit
VowsToKeepcom and click on theDonate link.
This program is sponsored byVows to Keep of Zanesfield, ohio
.
Welcome to Vows to Keep Radio with David and Tracy
Sellers.
Our mission is to help couplesdevelop biblically healthy
marriages through theapplication of God's Word and a
deeper relationship with Him.
We desire to help you and yourspouse grow closer to each other
and closer to the heart ofGod's design for your marriage.
Now here's David and Tracy withtoday's broadcast.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Today on Vows to Keep Radio, we're wrapping up a
13-week series on how to help ahurting marriage.
This has been quite anadventure.
I hope you've felt the same.
Even though we can't see you,we know we're going shoulder to
shoulder with you and buildingbiblically healthy marriages,
and that means more than wordscan describe.
We've been counseling marriagesand teaching about godly
(00:44):
marriage for almost 20 years,but that doesn't mean we're high
and mighty experts.
What we do have, and what wehope you've gleaned from this
series, is the power of God'sword.
In this series, we've studiedover a dozen common things that
you might hear in conversationwith someone you care about
Everything from purpose toaccountability, to someone who
(01:05):
wants a divorce, to someonewho's fighting over their
finances.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Before we dive into this last topic today on legacy,
I want to tell you the storybehind the catalyst to this
series.
David and I were on our way toMenards one night after we'd had
a dinner date and, rather thango into the store to shop for
lumber, we ended up sitting inthe parking lot on the phone
with a good friend of ours.
She had called us, but let metell you it was a conversation
(01:30):
well worth having.
But her marriage wasn't the oneshe was calling about.
Her heart was so broken andtherefore moved to know what to
do about this friend of hers whohad just received some news
that her husband was having anaffair.
My friend had two requests Couldwe call this person that was in
her life and offer her someadvice and, in the meantime,
(01:52):
could we tell her what to say toher friend the next time they
were on the phone?
Well, david and I knew rightaway that we couldn't cold call
this person.
It would be like my mom tellingher doctor that I had problems
with my back and then asked thedoctor to call me at home to
offer his help.
I'm not very likely to run tohis office.
There's really a disconnectthere.
We don't make cold calls, butlet me tell you we were smiling
(02:16):
just the same as our friendtalked to us, because there was
something we could do.
We could help our friend, tohelp her friend.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
With God's word we can see he's done a perfect job
of equipping you and I to have ahealthy marriage.
His love for us is on displayin every page of the Bible.
He models for us the kind oflove that we're to give our
spouse, whether, in your view,they deserve it or not.
So we walked our friend throughsome scriptures, some concepts
(02:45):
that night that she could takeand directly apply.
When she talked to her friend,we didn't say anything magical.
There's no secret formula ortricks to this, but we did share
real truth from God's word that, when put into action, ends up
resulting in heart change andthen life change.
Her friend's marriage is stilltogether years later Now, not to
(03:06):
her credit or to ours, but toGod's glory.
You've got people like that inyour life, people that I hope
are listening to the leading ofthe Holy Spirit and telling you
the truth that you need to hear.
But I hope also there are otherpeople's lives that you are
speaking into.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
As we've gone through this series, we want to really
equip you to know that sometimesthe most obvious answer to a
question isn't the right one.
So let me tell you anotherstory to set this up.
A friend of mine asked merecently if I had any good book
recommendations aboutcommunication in marriage.
I would have loved to havegiven her a real quick answer
and said yeah sure, hey, readthis one.
(03:45):
But I know that communicationproblems are never just that.
Communication problems are heartproblems and we can't
communicate well if we don'tknow our savior, or we don't
know the purpose of our marriage, or if we're chasing after
idols that don't satisfy butwe're actually demanding that
our spouse gives us what wethink will satisfy.
That's going to causecommunication issues.
(04:10):
Or if my heart isn't right andI've got bitterness and
unforgiveness.
Well, I think you see where I'mgoing.
If we get our hearts rightfirst, then we don't really need
a book on communication.
When we have our verticalrelationship with our heavenly
father in that healthy spot, ourhorizontal relationships are
the way that they should be.
Now, I say all that aboutcommunication because addressing
the top layer of a problem willonly help for a moment.
(04:30):
Getting a facelift doesn't makemy cancer go away.
We have to learn to be reallygood listeners, tuning in to the
heart of a problem and not justthe symptoms when we're trying
to help a friend with a hurtingmarriage.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
When it comes to helping a hurting marriage.
The word legacy is probably notgoing to be brought up in those
initial conversations, but yourfriend might say some key words
, like things aboutcommunication or finances or
fighting.
What I want you to do is listenfor the clues.
The clues that say that legacyactually might very well be the
(05:04):
topic that you need to dig intowith them.
Things like hey, now that thekids are gone, we don't have
anything in common anymore, orwe're like roommates at this
stage in our relationship, orI'd rather have my life, he's
got his.
It's better that we do our ownthing.
Maybe they just are commentingon how much they enjoy their
(05:24):
alone time, being free of theirspouse.
These kind of words are the onesthat, if you listen too
carefully, you're going todistinguish that it's possible
they are missing the big pictureof marriage.
They don't understand that Godhas got a purpose in that
marriage and now God'spositioned you perfectly to help
them to see far off in thedistance, giving them some hope,
(05:46):
giving them some perspective.
You may not even need to usethe word legacy initially, but
that's where the conversation isheading.
When you do get to that point,you're going to experience what
we have when we mention aboutthe importance of leaving a good
legacy.
They'll always nod their headsand say yeah, of course.
Yeah, no, I want that.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Well, the good news is, it is a foregone conclusion
that they will indeed leave alegacy.
Well, the bad news is guesswhat?
They're going to leave a legacy.
All of us leave behindsomething for the generation
after us, whether it's good orbad.
There's not an option here, andwe're really not talking about
money at all.
This isn't an inheritance inany way, shape or form.
(06:31):
That's tangible.
If your bank account is spentbuilding God's kingdom and
you've got nothing financiallyto pass on to your kids when
you're gone, I would say goodjob.
Money is here today, gonetomorrow.
We really can't put any stockin it.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
What we're talking about today is a spiritual
legacy that starts with you andextends down through the
generations that are going tofollow you 20 years ago, around
the time that Tracy and I weregetting married, if you would
have gotten together all of theliving generations in the
Sellers family for a familyphoto, there would have been two
people in that picture me andmy dad.
No granddads, no greatgranddads, no children yet to
(07:02):
pass the family name on.
But now, 20 years later, we'renot too far away from having
four people in that picture mydad, me, my son and soon his
children.
But really, if you would havetaken that picture 20 years ago,
it's like my grandpa could havebeen in that picture.
Yeah, he's gone, but when I wasa boy he planted a good seed.
The day he became a ChristianFrom my dad and my grandfather,
(07:26):
I watched my faith take shape.
I actually became a Christian asa result of seeing the way that
my dad handled my grandfather'sdeath.
He didn't mourn like those whohad no hope.
No, instead, that was the daythat I put my hope in Jesus, and
today the branches of ourfamily legacy stretch out even
farther.
As we see, our children havecome to faith in Jesus too.
(07:48):
What I'm getting at is that inmy family my grandfather planted
a seed, and generationally Ican look back and see, he is one
of the heroes of the faith.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
In my family.
My grandpa was the first one togive his heart to the Lord
while he was overseas serving inthe Navy.
When he returned from war, hebegan to go to church with his
family and, as a result, my momand my dad raised me in church,
where I heard the truth of thegospel, and now we're doing the
same with our children.
I'd like to suggest, however,that there's a lot more to
leaving a godly legacy than justtelling your kids and grandkids
(08:21):
about God.
It's a perfect place to start,and we need to start with our
own faith, rooted and built upin Christ, but it can't stop
there.
When I became a Christian, Ibegan my faith journey as an
infant, and, to be honest, I wascompletely self-absorbed, but
beginning to grow in Christ as Ilearned what God's Word said.
What does he want me to do?
How can I begin to understandthis life of faith that I'm
(08:42):
beginning?
The thing about becoming aChristian, though, is it's
perfectly possible to remain ababy Christian my entire life,
or maybe I advance to being atoddler or a child in the faith,
but that's not the kind offaith I want to leave as a
legacy.
Jesus calls us, in Matthew,chapter 28, to go and make
disciples, and you've probablyheard us say this before, but
(09:05):
we're going to say it againWe've got to first disciple the
people in our very own family.
That's how we begin to build alegacy.
Our faith and our obedience toGod's word will, first and
foremost, be put to the testwithin those four walls of your
house.
If you could just see a videoof the last week of the
interactions between you andyour family within your house,
(09:25):
then you would know what I mean.
Legacy always comes from how welive our faith in Jesus every
day and in the roughest andtoughest of moments, when we
don't feel like loving ourspouse through their sin, when
we can't see anything good upahead, when we hear voices tell
us to just get out of this messyrelationship, when we can't
remember why we're sticking this.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Our sin.
Nature makes remaining aninfant in Christ the default.
We're focused on the troublesand the circumstances of the day
.
We live in the moment withouteven thinking about what's ahead
.
Sometimes I don't think we evenperceive that growth is
possible, so we don't reallystrive for it, especially when
things aren't going superawesome in our marriage
relationship.
(10:10):
We just hope to get through theday through this next
conversation.
So here's your friend feelinghopeless and having an eye on
legacy.
Well, that's just not on theirmind at all.
It's hard sometimes to connectour everyday choices with the
things that we can't see, thatfuture legacy.
That's where faith in God andobedience to his word and your
(10:30):
job in your friend's life is toput some light on this, helping
them to look up, to keep theireyes fixed on Jesus, to remember
the purpose of their marriage,so that they stop tripping over
what's wrong and stumbling overwhat's missing in their marriage
and remember that God really isup to something much bigger
than they can see in the hereand now.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
If you have a marriage question, please email
questions at vows2keepcom.
Vows to Keep will respond toyou via email and perhaps use it
on the air.
Now let's rejoin Vows to KeepRadio with David and Tracy
Sellers.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
We're going to spend a little bit of time here in
Hebrews, chapter 11.
And I know that this chapter islovingly referred to as the
heroes of the faith chapter, butcan I just add a little more to
that title?
Let's call it the faith andobedience chapter An awesome
place in the Bible where wespecifically see those two
things really convergingtogether faith and obedience.
(11:24):
It's a faith builder to readthrough the recounting of these
heroes that are listed in thischapter, to know that they were
real people who kept their eyeson the eternal rewards of their
faith, like Abel and Enoch andNoah and Abraham and Sarah and
Moses, and so many more.
If you look at each of theirstories, you're going to see
four things they have in common.
(11:46):
Number one, you guessed it theyhad faith.
Each one of them had such aheart of faith faith beyond what
they could perceive or evenpredict.
Let me clarify this for you,though they did not have faith
in themselves.
They knew they had to put theirfaith in a God that could be
trusted, and they knew that hisway was better than theirs.
Each and every one of thesepeople believed in God's promise
(12:09):
to them, and that actuallychanged the way they live.
So one of the four thingsyou're going to see they all
have in common is obedience.
Their faith produced somethingthey could not conjure up on
their own specific obedience toGod.
God gives us the gift of faith.
That is a gift from him, andit's because of that gift, and
(12:32):
by his power working to changeour hearts, that we have the
ability to be obedient to hisword.
That's what he calls us to.
He says if you love me, youwill obey my commands.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
This leads us to the third thing about these fears of
the faith.
The thing they had in commonwas the choices.
Let's go pick on the Israelitesfor just a minute Hebrews 11 30
.
It was by faith that the peopleof Israel marched around
Jericho for seven days and thewalls come crashing down.
Now, the legacy that they werecreating for their nation didn't
happen in the moment the wallscrumbled.
(13:05):
That was the power of God ondisplay.
But think about what led up toit.
Day after day, they had to getup off the dusty ground.
They had to brush themselvesoff and go do something
physically taxing, certainlyhard to wrap their heads around.
What are we doing?
You're saying, if I march forseven days, god's going to do a
miracle.
Yep, that's our God for you.
When he speaks and we listenand act without argument and
(13:31):
follow through on his word,amazing things happen.
I hope what you can see is thatthese Old Testament stories are
still relevant to you and I andyour friend now.
God gives us these stories toshow us that he can be trusted.
Sometimes what we're hearing andseeing is unconventional, but
if you can help your friends seewhat God might be up to, to
(13:52):
help them to look further downthe road than where they are and
to ask them what is it that Godis specifically asking for you
and your spouse to do thatyou've been unwilling to follow
through on.
These are powerful places tostart and then pray, asking that
God would bring about a heartchange to really really help
them follow through, because itis actually possible to make
(14:15):
these little momentarybehavioral changes that look
like we're trying to line upwith God's word, but we all know
that doesn't stick around, thatdoesn't make lasting change.
For example, if I know that Ineed to speak kindly to Tracy,
even when I don't think shedeserves it, if I remember I'm
called to build her up ratherthan tear her down, I can make a
(14:35):
determination to do that.
But if it doesn't come from myheart, guess what?
It's going to quickly fail.
Now, if my faith is in my Lordand Savior, relying on his love
for me and knowing that he's gotmy back and he has things
planned beyond my ability to seethem, then my heart changes
toward Tracy, even in the worstmoments that we might have
together, and my faith in Godhelps me to want the obedience
(14:58):
to his word and the powerfulchanges it can bring when I am
obedient.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
What we want you to hear clearly today and to help
your friends see, is that faithbegets obedience and obedience
begets legacy.
And that's the fourth thingyou're going to see from each
one of these heroes.
In Hebrews 11, legacy.
Verse 13 says all these peopledied still believing what God
had promised them.
They did not receive what waspromised, but they saw it from a
(15:25):
distance and they welcomed it.
And that's what we need tostrive for.
The faith that got them on theright track in the very
beginning, that helped them tobe obedient and make those good
choices, kept them till the end,when they were each leaving
this world.
Each of these people plantedseeds for a future harvest, some
they wouldn't even see tillthey got to the other side of
(15:47):
eternity.
Your friend has been plantingseeds too, and maybe they're
kind of wrinkling their noseright now.
They're not liking this cropthat is popping up in their
marriage.
The seeds of sin and self thatwe plant.
They result in spiritual death.
There will always beconsequences for our sin.
We think what we do in the darkno one needs to know about, but
(16:08):
sin has a domino effect.
Galatians 6, 7 says dominoeffect.
Galatians 6, 7 says do not bedeceived.
God cannot be mocked.
A man reaps what he sows.
This applies in your friend'smarriage today.
Whoever sows to please theirflesh, verse eight says, from
the flesh will reap destruction.
Whoever sows to please thespirit, from the spirit will
reap eternal life.
(16:29):
Sin is going to corrupt ahealthy family tree.
But here's the flip side inHosea, chapter 10.
God says plant the good seedsof righteousness and you're
going to corrupt a healthyfamily tree.
But here's the flip side inHosea, chapter 10.
God says plant the good seedsof righteousness and you're
going to harvest a crop of love,a crop you're going to love.
Plow up the hard ground of yourhearts.
Now is the time to seek theLord that he may come and shower
righteousness upon you.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
It's in the seemingly insignificant things like
forgiving quickly and puttingaside my hobby to go hang out
with her, changing a nighttimeroutine to show my spouse I am
more into them than my personalpreferences.
It's respecting my spouse, notbecause they're always
respectable, but because they'remade in the image of God.
It's behind closed doors, inthe little moments where legacy
(17:13):
actually gets legs to stand on,not just that I have Christ as
my savior, but that I'm livingthe gospel in my life.
It's in action and these aredots you can connect for your
friend who's in that hurtingmarriage.
It's not necessarily that theyneed to have their eyes fixed on
legacy.
It's that they need to havetheir eyes fixed on their Savior
and as they follow him in thesetough moments, that beautiful
(17:35):
legacy will be built whilethey're not even looking.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
When David and I meet with a couple, we always give
some follow-through homework,and you can do the same thing
with your friend.
You can even dig into God'sword together.
But we've got six things thatwe think are good questions for
them to answer, for you to askthem.
Number one what does the Biblesay about inheritance and what
(17:59):
does the Bible say about legacy?
Open up God's word.
Flip to those passages.
Find out the truth that'scontained within the pages about
those topics.
Secondly, make a list of whatam I consistently doing that's
going to last into eternity.
That's a really good thing tospend some time in prayer about.
Third, have them ask theirspouse to help them see an
(18:21):
accurate representation of theircurrent legacy because,
honestly, that's the best personin their life to help them see
their blind spots.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Fourth, what action steps can I take to start
changing my legacy into one thatis eternal?
Fifth, how will living to leavea godly legacy affect my
marriage?
And finally, how will it affectmy children and my
grandchildren?
Your home may be full of anger,impatience, bitterness,
(18:51):
unforgiveness, materialism,sexual sin, malice and a whole
host of other sins that areleaving a legacy that you don't
want For your friend.
It may feel like this is theway it will always be, because
this is the way it's been for solong, but God has put you in
their life to encourage them.
There's a lot of hope packedinto the truth that it can look
(19:13):
different than it does right now.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
I believe that, too, god through us, can create a
family of faith.
Our marriage, your friend'smarriage, can be a legacy, and
it can look different for mychildren and grandchildren and
their children after that.
And we're going to go rightback to Hebrews, chapter 11.
It all starts with faith.
Ask God to increase your faithin him, ask him to help you to
get to know him better.
(19:37):
That is a prayer he will answerevery single time and remember
what comes next.
The seed of that faith is goingto produce obedience, and
obedience is seen in those small, seemingly insignificant
choices of our days.
Without us knowing it, theconstant decisions we make to
adhere our lives to God's wordbring about a harvest of an
(19:59):
amazing legacy, one where we canconfidently know that one day
we can stand before God and hearthose words well done, good and
faithful servant.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
The exciting thing to us is that, as we finish this
series with the focus on legacy,we know God is stirring some
hearts to be thinking beyondtheir own marriage.
God is raising your awarenessand, at the same time, calling
you to help hurting marriages ina more consistent way, people
who realize they could stepforward in obedience.
Saying yes, lord, I'm willingto be used in other people's
(20:33):
lives, in their marriages.
Saying yes, lord, I'm willingto be used in other people's
lives, in their marriages, tomeet them right where they're
hurting.
The world has made marriagecounseling some mystical science
, something expensive, somethingthat can only be done by paid
professionals.
Look around the world's way ofdefining and handling marriage
issues is not working.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
In John, chapter 14, the Holy Spirit is called our
counselor.
He not only resides within usas Christians throughout our
lives, he is working to discipleus, helping us become more
Christ-like.
Then he calls us to do the samething with others.
We see this in the GreatCommission go and make disciples
.
God made counseling to be partand parcel with discipleship.
God made discipleship a part ofall of our lives, not because
(21:15):
we're paid to, but because welove.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Most of the time, we don't say yes to God's call
because of one of two thingsFirst, we feel unprepared and
second, we have fear.
In Exodus, chapter three, godtalks to Moses and says this is
what I want you to do.
Go and speak my truth to mypeople.
I have a promised land want youto do.
Go and speak my truth to mypeople.
I have a promised land for themto enter.
I want to rescue them and I'musing you as my mouthpiece.
(21:41):
Does this sound like a marriageyou might know of?
They need God to lead them to apromised land that he's already
made ready for them.
But if you've ever read Exodusor know anything about Moses,
you'll know he didn't jump upand down at this opportunity,
moses pleaded with the Lord.
I'm not very good with words.
I never have been and I'm notnow and even though you've
(22:02):
spoken to me, I get tongue tiedand my words get tangled.
Send anyone else.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
Lord, please let that not be us.
Help us to say yes to you andunderstand that you're not going
to call us to something youwon't equip us for.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
God will not call you to speak to a hurting marriage
and then ask you to use your ownwords to make it up as you go.
He's given you the Bible.
He's given you the Holy Spiritto help you remember his word.
He's given the conviction ofthe Holy Spirit to help you
apply it not only to your ownmarriage but to any marriage you
come alongside to disciple.
But here's a caution for youtoday If you feel God pulling at
(22:40):
your heart strings to step upand say yes, don't discount
yourself because you're notqualified.
A year ago, tracy and I finishedcounseling with a couple who
had gone through some amazinglyhard things in their marriage
and in our final meeting withthis couple, they shared that
they had felt the call to be atool in God's hands for someone
(23:01):
else's marriage.
We talked in depth with themabout the training that we had
received through the Associationof Certified Biblical
Counselors, and it was so coolto see their eyes light up as
they considered what this couldlook like in their own life,
that God could use theirtestimony of his saving grace,
the way he saved their marriage,to share truth with others
(23:23):
people in the lowest of places,and that they wouldn't be alone.
In fact, a couple who's been onthe Bows to Keep team for
nearly eight years now hadwalked through a very similar
process team for nearly eightyears now, had walked through a
very similar process feeling thecalling after being changed by
the very application of thegospel in their marriage,
applied at a time when tragedywas finally being overtaken by
(23:46):
the truth of Jesus Christ.
What they can't see is theoutcome the fruit of God's word
spoken at just the right timewhen someone needs to hear it
the most.
God is mighty enough to takeour little acts of obedience and
turn them into something muchbigger.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
So what's the next step of faith you need to take
today to get equipped to helphurting marriages?
Pray about it and if you'd liketo continue the conversation,
reach out to us via our website,VowsToKeepcom.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Vows to Keep is supported by a team which
includes biblical coaches,writers and pastoral advisors.
If you have a desire to servemarriages in your community, we
would love to hear from you.
Vows to Keep is anot-for-profit marriage ministry
designed to bring God'sencouraging truth to the
marriages of our area.
As a not-for-profitorganization, our commitment to
Christlike marriages includesproviding much-needed services,
(24:39):
regardless of a couple'sfinancial ability to offset the
cost of Vows to Keep operations.
If you are unable to donateyour time or abilities, but
would like to help support Vowsto Keep financially, visit
VowsToKeepcom and click on theDonate link.
This program is sponsored byVows to Keep of Zanesfield, ohio
.
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