December 15, 2025 • 25 mins
Headlines say church is shrinking, but the bigger story is personal: will our kids still love Jesus when they leave our home? We tackle the myths and get specific about what actually keeps young adults rooted—starting with genuine salvation, daily Scripture habits, and real service that turns them from consumers into contributors.
We break down the difference between belief and belonging, unpack why 1 Corinthians 12 makes isolation a losing strategy, and show how Ephesians 4 equips families to grow through truth spoken in love. You’ll hear how clarifying research on church attendance and divorce reframes the narrative, why online stand-ins can’t replace embodied discipleship, and how small acts of service—yes, even running slides at eight—train courage, humility, and ownership. We make the case that local church community doesn’t just rescue marriages in crisis; it prevents crisis by surrounding couples with counsel, accountability, and friendships that align with Scripture.
If you want your son or daughter to keep meeting with God’s people, start now: ask for their testimony in writing, set Bible reading benchmarks together, and place them in roles that stretch their gifts. Model respect for volunteers, show your weaknesses, and invite accountability. Faithfulness is our call; outcomes belong to God. Listen, share this with another parent who needs a plan, then subscribe and leave a review to help more families build biblically healthy marriages and raise kids who stay rooted in Christ.
For episode transcripts, click HERE.
For more marriage encouragement, visit: www.VowsToKeep.com | V2K Blog | Marriage Counseling | Insta | FB
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Welcome to Vows to Keep Radio with David and Tracy
Sellers.
The mission of Vows to Keep isto help couples develop a
biblically healthy marriagethrough the application of God's
Word and a deeper relationshipwith Him.
They desire to help you and yourspouse grow closer to each other
and closer to the heart of God'sdesign for your marriage.
Now, here's David and Tracy withtoday's broadcast.
SPEAKER_02 (00:21):
We're in a two-part series on parenting,
specifically talking about thechurch.
Now, in case you've been livingunder a rock, the church of the
United States, boy, membershiphas just been trending the wrong
way.
And big time, actually.
The church needs a shot in thearm, but more importantly than
that, our kids need Jesus.
(00:42):
The data shows the need, butthis is about the future
generations of your family.
That's why we're here today.
Will you see your greatgrandchildren someday in heaven?
How and why does the body ofChrist, as this church, fit into
their future?
Last time, we spent some timetalking about that doom and
gloom data, and I'm not sayingthat anyone had ill intent.
(01:04):
Pull data is hard to capturewell and it's easy to be used in
a misleading way.
But here's the numbers fromGallup.
In 1999, 70% of Americansclaimed that they belonged to a
church.
In 2020, that number is just47%.
Now this is bad, but keep inmind, this poll was done during
(01:26):
COVID.
Did that affect it?
I'm not thinking so.
Now there's other misleadingpoll data that's discouraging
couples who are not onlyconsidering church, but also
marriage.
There's research done by Barna afew years ago that seemed to say
the rate of divorce in thechurch was basically the same as
outside of the church.
SPEAKER_00 (01:45):
According to Shanti Feldhan, who wrote a book to
right the wrongs about thistopic, the Barna data actually
found the rate of divorce is notthe same.
She said when she wasinvestigating the facts for the
good news about marriage, herbook, George Barna himself,
confirmed that his study hadbeen badly misunderstood.
Their study was specificallyconsidering people's statements
about their belief, churchattendance was never taken into
(02:08):
account.
Ask any random stranger, do youbelieve in God?
A lot of them will say yes.
Do you go to church?
Well, no, but I'm doing fine.
The fact is, you can be aChristian and not attend church.
Does going to church make you aChristian?
No.
Here's the deal.
The research did show thatprofessing Christians who go to
church regularly are in factmuch less likely to get a
(02:31):
divorce.
Feldon partnered with the BarnerGroup and re-ran all the numbers
to see what happened to divorcerates for people who actually
went to church the week before,and the divorce rate dropped 27%
compared to non-attenders.
SPEAKER_02 (02:42):
There's a saying by Mark Twain that seems fitting.
Facts are stubborn, butstatistics are pliable.
I, like others I know, left homeand then shortly thereafter
stopped attending church.
Why does this happen?
Want to encourage you to go backand listen to our last
broadcast.
We talked about why so many ofour adult kids are going to
(03:02):
choose to walk away from thechurch when they leave home.
If this is one of your greatestfears as a parent, that your
child would leave your house andthen leave God's house as well,
you're in the right place.
SPEAKER_00 (03:14):
It's a big problem.
That's what these stats aresaying.
So what do we do about this?
Well, I'm glad you asked becausetoday we're going to dwell on
what God's word says is thepurpose for church, and
therefore what yourresponsibility is now in
teaching this to your kids.
We're glad you're here today fortoday's episode of Vows to Keep
Radio, the show where you getsound biblical counsel you can
apply immediately to yourmarriage, and this time to your
(03:36):
kids.
We're your hosts, David andTracy Sellers of Vows to Keep.
We are biblical marriagecounselors, we're authors,
teachers, radio hosts,conference speakers, and podcast
hosts.
If you want to get back to beingon fire for your spouse and for
God, let's start theconversation.
SPEAKER_02 (03:51):
Read the Bible cover to cover, and what you won't
find in the Bible is theencouragement to be a churchless
Christian.
You see, God made believers andnon-believers both to be in
church.
Today is a lot of truth, andit's truth that you need to
share with your kids.
First and foremost is the truththat they need to be saved.
(04:14):
You see, too many parents makethis assumption that their kids
have actually made a decision tomake Jesus their Lord and
Savior, only to find out thatwhen they're 18, when they're
19, after they've left the home,that that decision never
actually was made.
Do you know your child is abeliever?
If so, this weekend help themflesh this out.
(04:36):
Even if you're unsure, eitherway, ask your child to document
their testimony in black andwhite.
Put it on paper.
And if they can't do that or ifthey're scared, you know what?
It's okay.
Be intentional though with whatcomes next.
Your kids need to know thatchurch isn't a safe place that
we go just to hide from theworld.
It's not a place we go to hangout with people.
(04:57):
You know what?
Among other things, it's a placewe go to organize our outreach
into this world.
Your kids need to know God'spurpose for their life.
This will always reducedistraction and drift.
You need to know that they aresaved, not just people who
attend church.
Because going to church, goingto youth group, even knowing
(05:19):
truth doesn't mean your child issaved.
So many teens are just absorbedin this world.
Do your kids know that theirlife is not their own?
It's not about how they look orhow the world views them.
Help them to get to know that byinviting them to share their
testimony.
And you know what?
You can share your own withthem.
(05:39):
What happened that led you tomake a decision for Christ?
What did God teach you to bringhim to him?
Maybe you've never made thisdecision yourself.
Being an unbeliever right nowisn't fatal, but it is not a
place to stay.
Whether it's you or your child,the lies of this world have real
impacts on our lives.
Don't buy that lie that yourchild is broken.
(06:01):
The world wants to label yourkids with unmovable clinical
problems, and they may not havethem.
Without purpose, a lot of lifecan pass before we realize just
how lost and pointless life hasbecome.
If you can't tell the story ofhow your son or daughter came to
know the Lord, you shouldgenerally assume that evangelism
(06:22):
is now your utmostresponsibility.
Now, once your child knowsChrist as their savior, your job
is to teach your kids theirpurpose through God's eyes, for
his kingdom.
Get real practical.
And I wish we had time today todelve into this.
I don't, but church will onlymake sense in the context of
their overall life mission.
(06:42):
It's going to be tough to helpthem on things that you yourself
don't know, though.
And so that means you've got toknow God's word.
God qualifies the call, he's notcalling the qualified.
That includes you, parent,listening to me here and now.
SPEAKER_00 (06:58):
Back in the Old Testament, the temple was a
place to go to atone for sin.
That's really hard for us toimagine these days, but they
would go there and makesacrifices for their sin.
And of course, to pray and topraise, remembering what God had
done.
But perhaps the most importantreason they went was to be in
God's presence.
This is before the Holy Spiritcame.
(07:19):
So this is where God would meethis people.
A lot has changed since the OldTestament was written.
But one thing that's not changedis that it's still just as
important for Christians to betied into a local church.
You're not going to find anauthor in either the New
Testament or the Old Testamentspeak well or give props to
someone who claims to be aChrist follower and is going it
(07:40):
alone, who's not connected toChrist's body.
The first fact that you need toteach your kids today is that
isolation is not God's plan,it's Satan's game.
Your kids need to know that theBible makes no case for the
Christian life lived alone.
The Bible makes it clear to usthat our involvement in a local
church is necessary.
(08:01):
Listen to 1 Corinthians chapter12.
It says the human body has manyparts, but the many parts make
up one whole body.
So it is with the body ofChrist.
We all have been baptized intoone body by one spirit, and we
all share the same spirit.
Yes, the body has many differentparts, not just one part.
Verse 15 of 1 Corinthians 12says, If the foot says, I'm not
(08:22):
part of the body because I'm nota hand, that doesn't make it any
less part of the body.
And if the ear says, I'm notpart of the body because I'm not
an eye, would that make it anyless part of the body?
Verse 17 says, If the whole bodywere an eye, how would you hear?
Or if your whole body were anear, how would you smell
anything?
But our bodies have many parts,God tells us.
And God has put each part justwhere he wants it.
(08:44):
How strange a body would be ifit only had one part.
The eye can never say to thehand, I don't need you.
The head can't say to the feet,I don't need you.
Verse 22 goes on, in fact, someparts of the body that seem
weakest and least important areactually the most necessary, and
the parts we regard as lesshonorable are those we clothe
with the greatest care.
So God has put the body togetherso that extra honor and care are
(09:06):
given to those parts that haveless dignity.
This makes for harmony among themembers so that all the members
care for each other.
If one part suffers, all theparts suffer with it.
If one part is honored, all theparts are glad.
And verse 27, all of youtogether are Christ's body, and
each of you is a part of it.
SPEAKER_02 (09:25):
Let's get real practical.
Paul is making the case thateach member is necessary and
irreplaceable.
And if you want to know how tohelp your kids not leave God's
house when they leave yourhouse, make sure you've taught
your children that you, thatthey are a part of this church,
not as a consumer, but as acollaborative part, functioning
(09:47):
in their giftedness.
Because sadly, we do exactlywhat Paul says we can't.
The eye can't say, Hey, I got noneed for the feet.
The feet can't claim because I'mnot an eye, oh, I'm really not
that important.
I'm not a part of the body.
But you know what?
We do this all the time.
Every time we walk in thosedoors expecting only to be
served, we've done that.
(10:08):
So what I'm asking is, do yourlife choices show your kids that
in the body of Christ, everypart is necessary, that every
part is respected, that you'renot making fun of the poor
person who's trying and failingto run the slides, or the Sunday
school teacher who is simplywrung out when you go and pick
up your kids.
Instead, you're thinking abouthow could I actually jump in and
(10:29):
help here?
That is the example your kidsneed from you now.
Let me explain a very importantlesson that I learned a number
of years ago when my older twokids were three and four years
old.
Tracy was on very strict bedrest, she was pregnant with our
third child, and one day I wasrung out from a long day at
work.
And so I asked our little kidsto help me do the dishes.
(10:52):
And strangely enough, they lovedit.
They were excited to show me howthey could safely take plates
off the table and put them inthe dishwasher.
Now, of course, there was riskthat they would break a plate.
My point is that unless I took achance on a broken dish, I would
have never known that theyactually could help.
That they would from that pointforward help every single night.
(11:13):
So are you helping your kidstoday, at whatever stage that
they're at, understand theirpart in the church?
Not by asking, like, well, wouldyou like to do this?
What sounds good to you, but byactually putting them in a
position to serve.
Have them try many roles, havethem try things that seem out of
reach.
I'll give you an example.
My son started running slidesduring worship in our church
(11:34):
when he was about eight yearsold.
And it wasn't perfect.
He made mistakes, but he alsolearned that he was able to do
something that was essential tothat church's function.
And he loved serving.
It was an honor to him.
But he also learned that therewas no age where serving
suddenly becomes mandatory.
It's a choice we make from thevery beginning.
(11:54):
Like a little Timothy, we've gotto encourage growth.
We have to encourage not lettingfear of failure or being seen by
people who are more experiencedthan you are distract you.
When there's hard work to do,say moving something heavy, my
arms and legs, well, they do thework.
My ears can't.
But when there's counsel to begiven, my ears do most of the
work, listening to the heart ofmy friend.
(12:15):
My arms and legs are basicallyalong for the ride.
Now, if you want your kids to bein the church five, ten, fifteen
years from now, don't wait foryour kids to grow up, to
challenge them, to try to dodifferent things in the church,
to find their giftedness, tohone it with experience.
SPEAKER_00 (12:32):
Hi, this is Tracy from Vows to Keep Radio.
We're asking you to help usbecome fully funded so Vows to
Keep has the financial resourcesto keep sharing hope with
marriages like yours.
God is growing this ministrytremendously, and the
testimonies we hear confirm thatGod's word does not return void.
Right now, we need an additional$6,500 a month.
(12:53):
Would you consider becoming amonthly partner with us to build
biblically healthy marriages?
We're asking 100 families togive$50 a month and 60 families
to give$25 a month.
Prayerfully make your best giftat vowstokeep.com.
In both 1 Corinthians 3 andHebrews 5, we read about
immature believers who wantedmore quote unquote milk, even
(13:14):
though Paul says they shouldhave been ready for solid food.
The King James translation usesthe word meat.
Sometimes we raise kids whoexpect to only be fed in church.
And they leave the churchbecause they don't get enough
meat from the sermons or theydon't have their needs met.
And while teachers can always beimproving, I don't believe we
can ever depend on all of ourspiritual food coming from
(13:37):
sermons.
Preachers talk to a wideaudience, so you can count on
milk.
If you are a pastor listening,please don't be offended.
We're not digging into what youdo.
We appreciate what you do.
SPEAKER_02 (13:48):
Have you ever thought about what actually
makes milk?
Now we happen to live near adairy farm and some would say,
well, cows make milk, but I'mtalking about the ongoing
process.
You see, milk comes from foodand water going through the cow.
It becomes milk after it's beenthrough the cow.
The cow's eaten it, it's chewedit, it's processed it, and then
out comes something that you caneasily drink.
(14:11):
Meat, though, that's altogetherdifferent because it's something
that we have to chew on.
It requires work andparticipation.
If you're a mature believer whoisn't being fed, don't look for
another church.
Pick up your Bible.
I don't want this to soundharsh.
I don't want to sound mean, butyour kids are not going to
become giants of the faith byhearing better sermons.
(14:33):
Again, don't get us wrong,Sunday sermons are great.
Your kids will become committedpowerhouses for God by drawing
closer to Jesus through readingthe Bible themselves.
And then being held accountableto the choices that match that
personal knowledge that theyhave as a result.
Our kids do like we do.
So teaching our children how tofeed themselves by reading God's
(14:57):
word consistently is key.
And it can't start too young.
You need to know that to keepyour kids in church tomorrow,
you need to teach them now tohave a hunger for spiritual
food.
One that causes them to see thatthe church is an important part
of the meal, but church might bebetter seen as a potlock.
(15:19):
Or someday they might be askedto bring something for others to
eat.
So do your kids read the Bibledaily?
It might feel disingenuous toask them to do so, but let me
suggest this.
Start by talking to your kidsabout how often they think they
should be reading God's Word.
Should it be ten minutes a day?
Should it be three times a week?
(15:39):
Whatever it is.
Nail down a benchmark that theythemselves identify and then ask
them what deters you fromactually doing that.
If it's a lack of understanding,you know what?
Meet with them every other nightto answer whatever questions
they have.
If it's a lack of time, ask themwhat has become too important in
their life.
Let them cut something out tomake room in their schedule for
(16:02):
reading the Bible.
By the time they're youngadults, they will want to start
serving and feeding others.
It's just a byproduct of knowingGod's word to the degree that
you don't view yourself as aconsumer.
For more on this topic, I wantto encourage you to go to our
website.
We've got a great blog postcalled How Understanding Your
Spiritual Growth Deeply ImpactsYour Marriage.
(16:23):
You can find it atvowstokeep.com.
SPEAKER_00 (16:26):
In Ephesians and Colossians, Paul talks about
there being joints and ligamentsto this body of Christ.
We need to supplement each otherso that the whole body may grow
up.
That is so important.
And this is why all the localchurch quote unquote substitutes
like attending online when youcan go in person, they don't
have the nutrients we need togrow the way that God asks us to
(16:50):
grow.
Can you do church online?
Does listening to podcasts likeVows to Keep fill the need?
Well, these are good things thatyou can do on top of attending a
local church.
But God's plan A fordiscipleship and growth is the
local church.
He doesn't have a plan B.
Do your kids know this?
And do they see it modeled byyou?
(17:12):
Church is so vital for youngChristians to see, to
experience.
Church is vital for Christiansto grow and be discipled.
On the flip side, Christians,including your kids, are vital
for the health of our localchurches, not just as a
consumer, just sort of rankingthe sermons and the music, but
as someone serving out theirrole too.
And this takes us to our nextpoint.
(17:34):
If you want your kids to stillbe attending church after they
leave your home, they need to betaught that it's through the
gatherings of believers that wesee and that we know we're not
alone.
And therefore we don't becomediscouraged.
Being alone is an interestingplace for the Christian to be.
You've probably been there.
When I'm in sin, that's when Iwant to be alone.
(17:56):
I don't want others to see myweakness.
Being alone is often part of thegateway that leads to my sin.
And Satan loves this.
In marriage, being alone iswhere he breaks you down.
And your kids is the same thing.
Will someone who is a Christiansee your life up close and
personal enough that they wouldsee that you're starting to pull
(18:17):
away?
That is how we stay far fromdiscouragement and just giving
up, knowing that someone's gotour back, especially in the
places we need it most.
So, how do we model thisanti-isolation?
It should first happen withinthe four walls of our very own
house.
If you or your husband or yourkids, some of you are believers
(18:39):
within your home, church canhappen right there too.
I'm talking about a place fordifferently gifted people to
support each other.
Go read what we just talkedabout a minute ago, Ephesians
chapter four.
It talks about how God givesapostles and prophets and
evangelists and pastors andteachers to equip his people.
So what are we tooling up for?
(19:00):
Well, Ephesians 4 says for worksof service, so that the body of
Christ may be built up until weall reach unity in the faith and
in the knowledge of the Son ofGod and become mature, attaining
to the whole measure of thefullness of Christ.
Why is this gonna matter in yourchild's life when they become an
adult?
Well, listen to verse 14.
(19:21):
Then we'll no longer be infants,tossed back and forth by the
waves, blown here and there byevery wind of teaching, and by
the cunning and craftiness ofpeople in their deceitful
scheming.
Verse 15 instead, speaking thetruth in love, we're gonna grow
up to become in every respectthe mature body of him who is
the head, that is Christ.
(19:42):
Then we get this little bit ofwarning.
Watch out, don't be like theworld.
The next section says, Don'tlive as the Gentiles do in the
futility of their thinking.
They're darkened in theirunderstanding, they're separated
from the life of God because ofthe ignorance that's in them due
to the hardening of theirhearts, and they've lost all
sensitivity.
You see, without well-groundedChristians in close community,
(20:05):
it's so easy to have a hardheart, to lose that sensitivity
to Christ.
And then what happens?
Well, verse 19 says, having lostall sensitivity, they've given
themselves over to sensuality soas to indulge in every kind of
impurity, and they're full ofgreed.
Will your kid experience thesethings the second they leave
your home and move away tocollege or to take that first
(20:28):
job?
You bet they will.
And verse 20 goes on to hammerthe point of attending church
weekly.
He says, That, however, is notthe way of life you learned when
you heard about Christ and weretaught in him in accordance with
the truth that's in Jesus.
You were taught with regard toyour former way of life to put
off your old self, which isbeing corrupted by his deceitful
(20:49):
desires, and to be made new inthe attitude of your mind, and
to put on the new self, createdto be like God in true
righteousness and holiness.
Going to church is importantbecause truth is spoken from
God's word and accountabilityhappens from people who love God
and they're close enough to you,they're close enough to your
kids to help us stay on course.
(21:11):
That's building each other up sothat we mature in Christ.
SPEAKER_02 (21:16):
I think the main takeaway from the book, The Good
News About Marriage, is thisthat people who actually go to
church regularly not onlyprotect their marriages from
divorce, they enjoy each othermuch more.
They have happier marriages.
And it may seem like a littlething, but according to the
data, it turns out that plugginginto a community church is one
(21:36):
of the most important things youcan do for your marriage.
Not just if you're in adifficult season, but to
actually prevent yourself fromgetting into difficulties.
So why does church matter somuch?
Although being saved isobviously the leading indicator,
people that faithfully attendchurch suggest that that couple
(21:58):
is going to prioritize God firstand foremost in their life,
which is vital.
Turns out though, becoming partof a supportive, encouraging
community of Christians in theflesh, regularly attending,
sharing life together, havingpeople to turn to for advice
does informally and quickly whatmany outside of the church
(22:20):
actually pay professionaltherapists to do over the course
of many years.
And since most professionalcounselors in the world are
going to give marital advicethat literally flies in the face
of God's word, the relationshipadvice given by well-versed
Christians is typically going toserve your child's future
marriage better over the longhaul.
(22:43):
I want to close with this.
You are asked to be faithful.
Your adult kids, they're askedto do the same.
Even the prodigal can beredeemed.
SPEAKER_00 (22:53):
If you're wondering where to start, you can always
start with prayer.
Pray that your own view ofchurch would be correct and that
you would live out thoseconvictions so that your kids
can live by your example.
Pray that God would give youdiscernment about where your
child is gifted so they can beplugged in to the body of
Christ.
If you or your spouse or yourchild is isolated, pray for the
(23:17):
humility to get into a body ofbelievers so that people would
know you well and encourage youto grow in Christ.
SPEAKER_02 (23:24):
The outcome is up to God.
Like marriage, no matter theoutcome, our biblical
responsibility is the same.
Don't leave church when it getshard.
Have a marriage that shows whata covenant is.
A relationship with a churchthat shows the same.
You've got a responsibility toshare the truth of Hebrews 10.25
(23:46):
that says, do not give upmeeting together if some are in
the habit of doing, butencouraging one another.
And all the more as you see theday approaching.
You've got the responsibility tonot pretend to do church.
Don't be fake about this.
Show your weakness.
Seek accountability in thatchurch.
(24:07):
Show the church functions withinyour life and the kids who learn
the same.
SPEAKER_01 (24:15):
Vows to Keep is supported by a team which
includes biblical coaches,writers, and pastoral advisors.
If you have a desire to servemarriages in your community, we
would love to hear from you.
Vows to Keep is a not-for-profitmarriage ministry designed to
bring God's encouraging truth tothe marriages of our area.
As a not-for-profitorganization, our commitment to
Christ-like marriages includesproviding much-needed services
(24:38):
regardless of a couple'sfinancial ability to offset the
cost of Vows to Keep operations.
If you are unable to donate yourtime or abilities but would like
to help support Vows2Keepfinancially, visit
VowsTokeep.com and click on thedonate link.
This program is sponsored byVows2Keep of Zanesfield, Ohio.
Welcome to Vows to Keep Radio with David and Tracy
Sellers.
The mission of Vows to Keep isto help couples develop a
biblically healthy marriagethrough the application of God's
Word and a deeper relationshipwith Him.
They desire to help you and yourspouse grow closer to each other
and closer to the heart of God'sdesign for your marriage.
Now, here's David and Tracy withtoday's broadcast.
SPEAKER_02 (00:21):
We're in a two-part series on parenting,
specifically talking about thechurch.
Now, in case you've been livingunder a rock, the church of the
United States, boy, membershiphas just been trending the wrong
way.
And big time, actually.
The church needs a shot in thearm, but more importantly than
that, our kids need Jesus.
(00:42):
The data shows the need, butthis is about the future
generations of your family.
That's why we're here today.
Will you see your greatgrandchildren someday in heaven?
How and why does the body ofChrist, as this church, fit into
their future?
Last time, we spent some timetalking about that doom and
gloom data, and I'm not sayingthat anyone had ill intent.
(01:04):
Pull data is hard to capturewell and it's easy to be used in
a misleading way.
But here's the numbers fromGallup.
In 1999, 70% of Americansclaimed that they belonged to a
church.
In 2020, that number is just47%.
Now this is bad, but keep inmind, this poll was done during
(01:26):
COVID.
Did that affect it?
I'm not thinking so.
Now there's other misleadingpoll data that's discouraging
couples who are not onlyconsidering church, but also
marriage.
There's research done by Barna afew years ago that seemed to say
the rate of divorce in thechurch was basically the same as
outside of the church.
SPEAKER_00 (01:45):
According to Shanti Feldhan, who wrote a book to
right the wrongs about thistopic, the Barna data actually
found the rate of divorce is notthe same.
She said when she wasinvestigating the facts for the
good news about marriage, herbook, George Barna himself,
confirmed that his study hadbeen badly misunderstood.
Their study was specificallyconsidering people's statements
about their belief, churchattendance was never taken into
(02:08):
account.
Ask any random stranger, do youbelieve in God?
A lot of them will say yes.
Do you go to church?
Well, no, but I'm doing fine.
The fact is, you can be aChristian and not attend church.
Does going to church make you aChristian?
No.
Here's the deal.
The research did show thatprofessing Christians who go to
church regularly are in factmuch less likely to get a
(02:31):
divorce.
Feldon partnered with the BarnerGroup and re-ran all the numbers
to see what happened to divorcerates for people who actually
went to church the week before,and the divorce rate dropped 27%
compared to non-attenders.
SPEAKER_02 (02:42):
There's a saying by Mark Twain that seems fitting.
Facts are stubborn, butstatistics are pliable.
I, like others I know, left homeand then shortly thereafter
stopped attending church.
Why does this happen?
Want to encourage you to go backand listen to our last
broadcast.
We talked about why so many ofour adult kids are going to
(03:02):
choose to walk away from thechurch when they leave home.
If this is one of your greatestfears as a parent, that your
child would leave your house andthen leave God's house as well,
you're in the right place.
SPEAKER_00 (03:14):
It's a big problem.
That's what these stats aresaying.
So what do we do about this?
Well, I'm glad you asked becausetoday we're going to dwell on
what God's word says is thepurpose for church, and
therefore what yourresponsibility is now in
teaching this to your kids.
We're glad you're here today fortoday's episode of Vows to Keep
Radio, the show where you getsound biblical counsel you can
apply immediately to yourmarriage, and this time to your
(03:36):
kids.
We're your hosts, David andTracy Sellers of Vows to Keep.
We are biblical marriagecounselors, we're authors,
teachers, radio hosts,conference speakers, and podcast
hosts.
If you want to get back to beingon fire for your spouse and for
God, let's start theconversation.
SPEAKER_02 (03:51):
Read the Bible cover to cover, and what you won't
find in the Bible is theencouragement to be a churchless
Christian.
You see, God made believers andnon-believers both to be in
church.
Today is a lot of truth, andit's truth that you need to
share with your kids.
First and foremost is the truththat they need to be saved.
(04:14):
You see, too many parents makethis assumption that their kids
have actually made a decision tomake Jesus their Lord and
Savior, only to find out thatwhen they're 18, when they're
19, after they've left the home,that that decision never
actually was made.
Do you know your child is abeliever?
If so, this weekend help themflesh this out.
(04:36):
Even if you're unsure, eitherway, ask your child to document
their testimony in black andwhite.
Put it on paper.
And if they can't do that or ifthey're scared, you know what?
It's okay.
Be intentional though with whatcomes next.
Your kids need to know thatchurch isn't a safe place that
we go just to hide from theworld.
It's not a place we go to hangout with people.
(04:57):
You know what?
Among other things, it's a placewe go to organize our outreach
into this world.
Your kids need to know God'spurpose for their life.
This will always reducedistraction and drift.
You need to know that they aresaved, not just people who
attend church.
Because going to church, goingto youth group, even knowing
(05:19):
truth doesn't mean your child issaved.
So many teens are just absorbedin this world.
Do your kids know that theirlife is not their own?
It's not about how they look orhow the world views them.
Help them to get to know that byinviting them to share their
testimony.
And you know what?
You can share your own withthem.
(05:39):
What happened that led you tomake a decision for Christ?
What did God teach you to bringhim to him?
Maybe you've never made thisdecision yourself.
Being an unbeliever right nowisn't fatal, but it is not a
place to stay.
Whether it's you or your child,the lies of this world have real
impacts on our lives.
Don't buy that lie that yourchild is broken.
(06:01):
The world wants to label yourkids with unmovable clinical
problems, and they may not havethem.
Without purpose, a lot of lifecan pass before we realize just
how lost and pointless life hasbecome.
If you can't tell the story ofhow your son or daughter came to
know the Lord, you shouldgenerally assume that evangelism
(06:22):
is now your utmostresponsibility.
Now, once your child knowsChrist as their savior, your job
is to teach your kids theirpurpose through God's eyes, for
his kingdom.
Get real practical.
And I wish we had time today todelve into this.
I don't, but church will onlymake sense in the context of
their overall life mission.
(06:42):
It's going to be tough to helpthem on things that you yourself
don't know, though.
And so that means you've got toknow God's word.
God qualifies the call, he's notcalling the qualified.
That includes you, parent,listening to me here and now.
SPEAKER_00 (06:58):
Back in the Old Testament, the temple was a
place to go to atone for sin.
That's really hard for us toimagine these days, but they
would go there and makesacrifices for their sin.
And of course, to pray and topraise, remembering what God had
done.
But perhaps the most importantreason they went was to be in
God's presence.
This is before the Holy Spiritcame.
(07:19):
So this is where God would meethis people.
A lot has changed since the OldTestament was written.
But one thing that's not changedis that it's still just as
important for Christians to betied into a local church.
You're not going to find anauthor in either the New
Testament or the Old Testamentspeak well or give props to
someone who claims to be aChrist follower and is going it
(07:40):
alone, who's not connected toChrist's body.
The first fact that you need toteach your kids today is that
isolation is not God's plan,it's Satan's game.
Your kids need to know that theBible makes no case for the
Christian life lived alone.
The Bible makes it clear to usthat our involvement in a local
church is necessary.
(08:01):
Listen to 1 Corinthians chapter12.
It says the human body has manyparts, but the many parts make
up one whole body.
So it is with the body ofChrist.
We all have been baptized intoone body by one spirit, and we
all share the same spirit.
Yes, the body has many differentparts, not just one part.
Verse 15 of 1 Corinthians 12says, If the foot says, I'm not
(08:22):
part of the body because I'm nota hand, that doesn't make it any
less part of the body.
And if the ear says, I'm notpart of the body because I'm not
an eye, would that make it anyless part of the body?
Verse 17 says, If the whole bodywere an eye, how would you hear?
Or if your whole body were anear, how would you smell
anything?
But our bodies have many parts,God tells us.
And God has put each part justwhere he wants it.
(08:44):
How strange a body would be ifit only had one part.
The eye can never say to thehand, I don't need you.
The head can't say to the feet,I don't need you.
Verse 22 goes on, in fact, someparts of the body that seem
weakest and least important areactually the most necessary, and
the parts we regard as lesshonorable are those we clothe
with the greatest care.
So God has put the body togetherso that extra honor and care are
(09:06):
given to those parts that haveless dignity.
This makes for harmony among themembers so that all the members
care for each other.
If one part suffers, all theparts suffer with it.
If one part is honored, all theparts are glad.
And verse 27, all of youtogether are Christ's body, and
each of you is a part of it.
SPEAKER_02 (09:25):
Let's get real practical.
Paul is making the case thateach member is necessary and
irreplaceable.
And if you want to know how tohelp your kids not leave God's
house when they leave yourhouse, make sure you've taught
your children that you, thatthey are a part of this church,
not as a consumer, but as acollaborative part, functioning
(09:47):
in their giftedness.
Because sadly, we do exactlywhat Paul says we can't.
The eye can't say, Hey, I got noneed for the feet.
The feet can't claim because I'mnot an eye, oh, I'm really not
that important.
I'm not a part of the body.
But you know what?
We do this all the time.
Every time we walk in thosedoors expecting only to be
served, we've done that.
(10:08):
So what I'm asking is, do yourlife choices show your kids that
in the body of Christ, everypart is necessary, that every
part is respected, that you'renot making fun of the poor
person who's trying and failingto run the slides, or the Sunday
school teacher who is simplywrung out when you go and pick
up your kids.
Instead, you're thinking abouthow could I actually jump in and
(10:29):
help here?
That is the example your kidsneed from you now.
Let me explain a very importantlesson that I learned a number
of years ago when my older twokids were three and four years
old.
Tracy was on very strict bedrest, she was pregnant with our
third child, and one day I wasrung out from a long day at
work.
And so I asked our little kidsto help me do the dishes.
(10:52):
And strangely enough, they lovedit.
They were excited to show me howthey could safely take plates
off the table and put them inthe dishwasher.
Now, of course, there was riskthat they would break a plate.
My point is that unless I took achance on a broken dish, I would
have never known that theyactually could help.
That they would from that pointforward help every single night.
(11:13):
So are you helping your kidstoday, at whatever stage that
they're at, understand theirpart in the church?
Not by asking, like, well, wouldyou like to do this?
What sounds good to you, but byactually putting them in a
position to serve.
Have them try many roles, havethem try things that seem out of
reach.
I'll give you an example.
My son started running slidesduring worship in our church
(11:34):
when he was about eight yearsold.
And it wasn't perfect.
He made mistakes, but he alsolearned that he was able to do
something that was essential tothat church's function.
And he loved serving.
It was an honor to him.
But he also learned that therewas no age where serving
suddenly becomes mandatory.
It's a choice we make from thevery beginning.
(11:54):
Like a little Timothy, we've gotto encourage growth.
We have to encourage not lettingfear of failure or being seen by
people who are more experiencedthan you are distract you.
When there's hard work to do,say moving something heavy, my
arms and legs, well, they do thework.
My ears can't.
But when there's counsel to begiven, my ears do most of the
work, listening to the heart ofmy friend.
(12:15):
My arms and legs are basicallyalong for the ride.
Now, if you want your kids to bein the church five, ten, fifteen
years from now, don't wait foryour kids to grow up, to
challenge them, to try to dodifferent things in the church,
to find their giftedness, tohone it with experience.
SPEAKER_00 (12:32):
Hi, this is Tracy from Vows to Keep Radio.
We're asking you to help usbecome fully funded so Vows to
Keep has the financial resourcesto keep sharing hope with
marriages like yours.
God is growing this ministrytremendously, and the
testimonies we hear confirm thatGod's word does not return void.
Right now, we need an additional$6,500 a month.
(12:53):
Would you consider becoming amonthly partner with us to build
biblically healthy marriages?
We're asking 100 families togive$50 a month and 60 families
to give$25 a month.
Prayerfully make your best giftat vowstokeep.com.
In both 1 Corinthians 3 andHebrews 5, we read about
immature believers who wantedmore quote unquote milk, even
(13:14):
though Paul says they shouldhave been ready for solid food.
The King James translation usesthe word meat.
Sometimes we raise kids whoexpect to only be fed in church.
And they leave the churchbecause they don't get enough
meat from the sermons or theydon't have their needs met.
And while teachers can always beimproving, I don't believe we
can ever depend on all of ourspiritual food coming from
(13:37):
sermons.
Preachers talk to a wideaudience, so you can count on
milk.
If you are a pastor listening,please don't be offended.
We're not digging into what youdo.
We appreciate what you do.
SPEAKER_02 (13:48):
Have you ever thought about what actually
makes milk?
Now we happen to live near adairy farm and some would say,
well, cows make milk, but I'mtalking about the ongoing
process.
You see, milk comes from foodand water going through the cow.
It becomes milk after it's beenthrough the cow.
The cow's eaten it, it's chewedit, it's processed it, and then
out comes something that you caneasily drink.
(14:11):
Meat, though, that's altogetherdifferent because it's something
that we have to chew on.
It requires work andparticipation.
If you're a mature believer whoisn't being fed, don't look for
another church.
Pick up your Bible.
I don't want this to soundharsh.
I don't want to sound mean, butyour kids are not going to
become giants of the faith byhearing better sermons.
(14:33):
Again, don't get us wrong,Sunday sermons are great.
Your kids will become committedpowerhouses for God by drawing
closer to Jesus through readingthe Bible themselves.
And then being held accountableto the choices that match that
personal knowledge that theyhave as a result.
Our kids do like we do.
So teaching our children how tofeed themselves by reading God's
(14:57):
word consistently is key.
And it can't start too young.
You need to know that to keepyour kids in church tomorrow,
you need to teach them now tohave a hunger for spiritual
food.
One that causes them to see thatthe church is an important part
of the meal, but church might bebetter seen as a potlock.
(15:19):
Or someday they might be askedto bring something for others to
eat.
So do your kids read the Bibledaily?
It might feel disingenuous toask them to do so, but let me
suggest this.
Start by talking to your kidsabout how often they think they
should be reading God's Word.
Should it be ten minutes a day?
Should it be three times a week?
(15:39):
Whatever it is.
Nail down a benchmark that theythemselves identify and then ask
them what deters you fromactually doing that.
If it's a lack of understanding,you know what?
Meet with them every other nightto answer whatever questions
they have.
If it's a lack of time, ask themwhat has become too important in
their life.
Let them cut something out tomake room in their schedule for
(16:02):
reading the Bible.
By the time they're youngadults, they will want to start
serving and feeding others.
It's just a byproduct of knowingGod's word to the degree that
you don't view yourself as aconsumer.
For more on this topic, I wantto encourage you to go to our
website.
We've got a great blog postcalled How Understanding Your
Spiritual Growth Deeply ImpactsYour Marriage.
(16:23):
You can find it atvowstokeep.com.
SPEAKER_00 (16:26):
In Ephesians and Colossians, Paul talks about
there being joints and ligamentsto this body of Christ.
We need to supplement each otherso that the whole body may grow
up.
That is so important.
And this is why all the localchurch quote unquote substitutes
like attending online when youcan go in person, they don't
have the nutrients we need togrow the way that God asks us to
(16:50):
grow.
Can you do church online?
Does listening to podcasts likeVows to Keep fill the need?
Well, these are good things thatyou can do on top of attending a
local church.
But God's plan A fordiscipleship and growth is the
local church.
He doesn't have a plan B.
Do your kids know this?
And do they see it modeled byyou?
(17:12):
Church is so vital for youngChristians to see, to
experience.
Church is vital for Christiansto grow and be discipled.
On the flip side, Christians,including your kids, are vital
for the health of our localchurches, not just as a
consumer, just sort of rankingthe sermons and the music, but
as someone serving out theirrole too.
And this takes us to our nextpoint.
(17:34):
If you want your kids to stillbe attending church after they
leave your home, they need to betaught that it's through the
gatherings of believers that wesee and that we know we're not
alone.
And therefore we don't becomediscouraged.
Being alone is an interestingplace for the Christian to be.
You've probably been there.
When I'm in sin, that's when Iwant to be alone.
(17:56):
I don't want others to see myweakness.
Being alone is often part of thegateway that leads to my sin.
And Satan loves this.
In marriage, being alone iswhere he breaks you down.
And your kids is the same thing.
Will someone who is a Christiansee your life up close and
personal enough that they wouldsee that you're starting to pull
(18:17):
away?
That is how we stay far fromdiscouragement and just giving
up, knowing that someone's gotour back, especially in the
places we need it most.
So, how do we model thisanti-isolation?
It should first happen withinthe four walls of our very own
house.
If you or your husband or yourkids, some of you are believers
(18:39):
within your home, church canhappen right there too.
I'm talking about a place fordifferently gifted people to
support each other.
Go read what we just talkedabout a minute ago, Ephesians
chapter four.
It talks about how God givesapostles and prophets and
evangelists and pastors andteachers to equip his people.
So what are we tooling up for?
(19:00):
Well, Ephesians 4 says for worksof service, so that the body of
Christ may be built up until weall reach unity in the faith and
in the knowledge of the Son ofGod and become mature, attaining
to the whole measure of thefullness of Christ.
Why is this gonna matter in yourchild's life when they become an
adult?
Well, listen to verse 14.
(19:21):
Then we'll no longer be infants,tossed back and forth by the
waves, blown here and there byevery wind of teaching, and by
the cunning and craftiness ofpeople in their deceitful
scheming.
Verse 15 instead, speaking thetruth in love, we're gonna grow
up to become in every respectthe mature body of him who is
the head, that is Christ.
(19:42):
Then we get this little bit ofwarning.
Watch out, don't be like theworld.
The next section says, Don'tlive as the Gentiles do in the
futility of their thinking.
They're darkened in theirunderstanding, they're separated
from the life of God because ofthe ignorance that's in them due
to the hardening of theirhearts, and they've lost all
sensitivity.
You see, without well-groundedChristians in close community,
(20:05):
it's so easy to have a hardheart, to lose that sensitivity
to Christ.
And then what happens?
Well, verse 19 says, having lostall sensitivity, they've given
themselves over to sensuality soas to indulge in every kind of
impurity, and they're full ofgreed.
Will your kid experience thesethings the second they leave
your home and move away tocollege or to take that first
(20:28):
job?
You bet they will.
And verse 20 goes on to hammerthe point of attending church
weekly.
He says, That, however, is notthe way of life you learned when
you heard about Christ and weretaught in him in accordance with
the truth that's in Jesus.
You were taught with regard toyour former way of life to put
off your old self, which isbeing corrupted by his deceitful
(20:49):
desires, and to be made new inthe attitude of your mind, and
to put on the new self, createdto be like God in true
righteousness and holiness.
Going to church is importantbecause truth is spoken from
God's word and accountabilityhappens from people who love God
and they're close enough to you,they're close enough to your
kids to help us stay on course.
(21:11):
That's building each other up sothat we mature in Christ.
SPEAKER_02 (21:16):
I think the main takeaway from the book, The Good
News About Marriage, is thisthat people who actually go to
church regularly not onlyprotect their marriages from
divorce, they enjoy each othermuch more.
They have happier marriages.
And it may seem like a littlething, but according to the
data, it turns out that plugginginto a community church is one
(21:36):
of the most important things youcan do for your marriage.
Not just if you're in adifficult season, but to
actually prevent yourself fromgetting into difficulties.
So why does church matter somuch?
Although being saved isobviously the leading indicator,
people that faithfully attendchurch suggest that that couple
(21:58):
is going to prioritize God firstand foremost in their life,
which is vital.
Turns out though, becoming partof a supportive, encouraging
community of Christians in theflesh, regularly attending,
sharing life together, havingpeople to turn to for advice
does informally and quickly whatmany outside of the church
(22:20):
actually pay professionaltherapists to do over the course
of many years.
And since most professionalcounselors in the world are
going to give marital advicethat literally flies in the face
of God's word, the relationshipadvice given by well-versed
Christians is typically going toserve your child's future
marriage better over the longhaul.
(22:43):
I want to close with this.
You are asked to be faithful.
Your adult kids, they're askedto do the same.
Even the prodigal can beredeemed.
SPEAKER_00 (22:53):
If you're wondering where to start, you can always
start with prayer.
Pray that your own view ofchurch would be correct and that
you would live out thoseconvictions so that your kids
can live by your example.
Pray that God would give youdiscernment about where your
child is gifted so they can beplugged in to the body of
Christ.
If you or your spouse or yourchild is isolated, pray for the
(23:17):
humility to get into a body ofbelievers so that people would
know you well and encourage youto grow in Christ.
SPEAKER_02 (23:24):
The outcome is up to God.
Like marriage, no matter theoutcome, our biblical
responsibility is the same.
Don't leave church when it getshard.
Have a marriage that shows whata covenant is.
A relationship with a churchthat shows the same.
You've got a responsibility toshare the truth of Hebrews 10.25
(23:46):
that says, do not give upmeeting together if some are in
the habit of doing, butencouraging one another.
And all the more as you see theday approaching.
You've got the responsibility tonot pretend to do church.
Don't be fake about this.
Show your weakness.
Seek accountability in thatchurch.
(24:07):
Show the church functions withinyour life and the kids who learn
the same.
SPEAKER_01 (24:15):
Vows to Keep is supported by a team which
includes biblical coaches,writers, and pastoral advisors.
If you have a desire to servemarriages in your community, we
would love to hear from you.
Vows to Keep is a not-for-profitmarriage ministry designed to
bring God's encouraging truth tothe marriages of our area.
As a not-for-profitorganization, our commitment to
Christ-like marriages includesproviding much-needed services
(24:38):
regardless of a couple'sfinancial ability to offset the
cost of Vows to Keep operations.
If you are unable to donate yourtime or abilities but would like
to help support Vows2Keepfinancially, visit
VowsTokeep.com and click on thedonate link.
This program is sponsored byVows2Keep of Zanesfield, Ohio.
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