Eric Lewis Williams: Silhouette Interview

Eric Lewis Williams, Ph.D. is Director of the Office of Black Church Studies and Assistant Professor of Theology and Black Church Studies at Duke Divinity School. 

Episode Transcript

UNKNOWN (00:00):
Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 (00:04):
Hello, I am Nancy Lynn Westfield, Director of the
Wabash Center.
Welcome to Dialogue on Teaching,a Silhouette Interview.
The silhouette conversations aresparked from a list of
standardized questions.
We have the good fortune to hearfirsthand from teaching
exemplars about their teachingand teaching life.
Today, our silhouette guest isDr.

(00:24):
Eric Williams.
Dr.
Eric Williams is Director of theOffice of Black Church Studies,
as well as Assistant Professorin Theology and Black Church
Studies at Duke Divinity School.
Eric, thank you so much forbeing here for the interview.
Thank you for having me.
So we're just going to runthrough our 14 questions.
Tell us what you think abouteach of these questions.

(00:46):
Number one, when you were achild, what did you want to be
when you grew up?
A preacher and a pastor.
Say

SPEAKER_02 (00:54):
more.
Yeah, since much, I was alwaysfascinated by the preacher.
The preacher told stories.
The preacher convened people.
The preacher comforted thepeople.
The preacher loved the people.
The people loved the preacher.
The preacher helped us to...

(01:16):
to think differently about thesituations in which we found
ourselves.
And I just always, I was veryclose to my pastors growing up,
and I thought that I wouldbecome a

SPEAKER_01 (01:28):
pastor someday.
Number two, who was proud of youwhen you became a teacher?

SPEAKER_02 (01:37):
My entire community.
Yeah, everyone was proudbecause...
probably most of them thought Iwould be a preacher too.
So thank God for someone whochose not to be a preacher, I
guess.
But yeah, so my family, I'm afirst generation college
graduate.
And so that is very meaningfulto my family.

(02:01):
And all the people who investedin me and poured in me from my
formative faith community, justso many people that have been
made proud because of thejourney that I've taken.
And I wanna give a shout out tomy deceased mother and father

(02:21):
who were peacock proud of thechoices that I made and the good
fortune that I have experienced

SPEAKER_01 (02:32):
in my life.
So somebody needs to write abook about the first generation
college born that got PhDs inthe first generation, which if
we didn't know, how, I'm notgonna say common, but how many
people have done that, we wouldsay that would be impossible to
do.

SPEAKER_00 (02:49):
But

SPEAKER_01 (02:50):
many, many colleagues, that is their story,
that they are first generationand then went on to get the PhD
in their own generation, whichis fascinating to me.
Number three, what's the bestthing your mother taught you?

SPEAKER_02 (03:03):
The best thing my mother taught me was and how to
treat others within the humanfamily.
And she modeled that for us, Imean, my mother, in a way that

(03:24):
I've not achieved, obviously.
She never spoke ill words ofpeople.
She was quite, quiteextraordinary, but human
kindness, I think, is what Iwould say, has been...
something that's carried

SPEAKER_01 (03:43):
me all my life.
Who has influenced your teachingfor the better?
I

SPEAKER_02 (03:51):
would say the late Dr.
David Douglas Daniels III, Dr.
William Clare Turner, and mydoctoral advisor, Professor Athe
Adogame, who is at PrincetonTheological Seminary.

SPEAKER_01 (04:15):
What has surprised you about teaching, about the
teaching life?

SPEAKER_02 (04:21):
What has surprised me about the teaching life is
the joy that I experience when Iteach.
The joy of, you know, ofcreating and curating space for
people to raise their questionsand the freedom, empowering the

(04:42):
students with the freedom tochoose their own dialogue
partners that you can put, youcould bring different
disciplines together bringindividuals from different eras
together and create differentkinds of projects and different

(05:08):
kinds of essays and creativeworks.
So it's the joy and the freedomand the curiosity,

SPEAKER_01 (05:20):
I would say.
Number six, what is a favoritenickname by which you are called
by a loved one?

SPEAKER_02 (05:33):
Favorite nickname?
There's just a couple of them.
E-Dub was one.
E-Lewis was another one.
When I was a kid, I had anextremely long head.
This is one I didn't like.
I had an extremely long head.

(05:54):
In fact, I grew up thinking Iwas going to die because my head
was so big.
Something your brothers andsisters told you.
My brothers and sisters, whenthey wanted to really, really
get under my skin, they wouldcall me Bus and Longhead Lewis.

SPEAKER_01 (06:13):
That's

SPEAKER_02 (06:13):
mean.
They'd call me Yellow Bus.
Yellow Bus, come in

SPEAKER_01 (06:18):
here.
No, no, no.
And I'm sure you never got themback.
I'm sure, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_02 (06:28):
But you survived it.

SPEAKER_01 (06:29):
And

SPEAKER_02 (06:30):
my body has grown into my head.
That's real.

SPEAKER_01 (06:36):
My body caught up with my head.

SPEAKER_02 (06:38):
There was one of the youth in my community.
His name was Brian.
And Brian, his head was notablylarger than his body.

SPEAKER_00 (06:47):
And

SPEAKER_02 (06:48):
Brian died very early.
It was said that he had water onthe brain.
No one told me I had water inthe brain, but because Brian
died, I thought that because ofthe size of my head, I thought I
was next.
This is the problem with being aprecocious

SPEAKER_01 (07:03):
child, paying attention.

SPEAKER_00 (07:05):
You just diagnosed yourself.

SPEAKER_01 (07:11):
Number seven, what profession other than teaching
would you like to attend?

UNKNOWN (07:20):
Um,

SPEAKER_02 (07:21):
So I've done the museum, the curatorial work.
I've done teaching, butpreaching and probably
pastoring, I would say, if therewas something else that I would
attempt.

SPEAKER_01 (07:32):
So you've given up law school.
You're not going back to lawschool.
Going to

SPEAKER_02 (07:35):
law school.

SPEAKER_01 (07:36):
I'm not going back to school, period.
Done it.
Whatever it was.
Whatever I have.
That's it.
That's what I got.
That's what I'm going to livehere with.
We thank God.
It's over.
Number eight.
Do you enjoy writing inlonghand?
And if so, what's yourpreference of ink pen or writing

(07:57):
utensil?

SPEAKER_02 (07:58):
I do not enjoy writing in longhand because my
penmanship is just, it'shorrendous.
In fact, my nieces and nephews,they would say, these were
children, saying, Uncle Eric,You write like a child.
Not

SPEAKER_01 (08:18):
a doctor.
Not a doctor.
A child.

SPEAKER_02 (08:20):
You just can't write.
I'm the one that writes things.
Someone has to help me to readwhat I've written.
So, yeah, I'm grateful for theiPad and the Notes app.
And I think I can.

SPEAKER_01 (08:28):
Illegible, right?
Illegible.

SPEAKER_02 (08:31):
Give me a keyboard.
I

SPEAKER_01 (08:31):
don't need a keyboard.
Number nine.
What's your superpower?
My

SPEAKER_02 (08:38):
superpower?
Kindness.

SPEAKER_00 (08:42):
I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 (08:42):
Man, I'm just going to be kind to you and hopefully
we can come to some peacefulresolution.
And if not, I'll still be kindto you.
And we just want to, yeah,that's it.
That's all I got.

SPEAKER_01 (09:00):
Number 10.
Now, number 10 is an infamousquestion.
Just listen carefully to number10.
Many of our listeners listen forthe answer to number 10.
What's your favorite cuss word?

SPEAKER_02 (09:20):
Favorite cuss word.
When we say favorite, the onethat intrigued me the most, I
would say growing up.
And when I see it used inpopular culture, I think it's
intriguing.
It's damn.
Okay.
Yeah, so, you know, growing upin the context I grew up in, you

(09:42):
know, they would often quote,you know, Mark 16, 16.
I was

SPEAKER_01 (09:46):
going to say, you were in scripture, you're doing
theology,

SPEAKER_02 (09:49):
you think about hell.
But Samuel Jackson took it, hetook it to another level.
Yes, so no, I think that was theword.
I love to see people use that indifferent contexts.
That's always clever, I think.

SPEAKER_01 (10:07):
That's it?
That's the only one?
I have never heard you cuss.

SPEAKER_02 (10:11):
Yeah,

SPEAKER_01 (10:12):
I usually don't.
Yeah, I usually don't.
I say all the time.
My father would say people whocuss have a limited vocabulary.
Number 11.
How have you survived certainviolences in teaching?
Fighting

SPEAKER_02 (10:31):
back.
I am...
Sometimes we choose not to fightback, but that's how we
disappear.

SPEAKER_00 (10:39):
And so

SPEAKER_02 (10:40):
there's some battles that you have to fight.
And I have had one of thoselives where I've had some
battles that I had to fight andI had to put everything on the
line.
And yeah, I think you know a bitabout some of the battles that I
fought.

SPEAKER_01 (11:01):
And won.

SPEAKER_02 (11:02):
Fought and won.
I'm still here.
Yes,

SPEAKER_01 (11:04):
indeed.
Number 12.
What healings have you witnessedor received in teaching or the
teaching life?

SPEAKER_02 (11:13):
That's a beautiful question.

SPEAKER_01 (11:15):
What

SPEAKER_02 (11:15):
healings have I received or...
Or witnessed.
Received or witnessed.
Yeah, I've had some experiencesin the classroom in teaching
where...
people who had been carryingthings with them, things that

(11:37):
weighed them down, that theyfelt some kind of breakthrough.
I've had experiences with peoplewho had, you know, they had
emotional outbursts in class.
I remember one time when I wasteaching in Ashland, at Ashland

(11:58):
Theological Seminary, theDetroit campus, I was talking
about Job and I was talkingabout this notion, this
Deuteronomistic notion of cursesand blessings, that if you do
good, these good things, if youdo good, these good things will

(12:19):
happen to you.
You do bad, these bad thingswill happen to you.
And I was teaching and there wasa, she was an older woman in my
class and she As I was teaching,I was talking about Job, how Job
frustrates that model.
Because here he's makingsacrifices for his children
every day.
He's playing by the rules.

(12:43):
And even though he's playing bythe rules, destruction comes and
calamity comes to his home.
And the student began to weep.
In fact, she began to weep andwail in class.
And I...
I said, this is a good time forus to take a break.
So when everyone left, I wentand sat with her.
And she told me that she hadthree children and that all

(13:10):
three of her children had beenkilled in the streets of
Detroit.
And that day, that Job storyreally resonated with her.
But also, I would say that...
in my readings and what I learnfrom the students, the
perspectives they bring to text,I find them to be healing in

(13:33):
many ways.
I

SPEAKER_01 (13:35):
believe the classroom space, similar to the
sanctuary space during worship,the classroom space during
teaching can be equally assanctifying, spirit moving, aha
producing, and healing.

SPEAKER_02 (13:51):
Yes, indeed.

SPEAKER_01 (13:52):
If we could figure out how to use our priestly
functions to open those doorsfor our students.
And that's what I hear you justdid.

SPEAKER_02 (14:00):
Yes, indeed.
And I tell you that thestudents, they come to these
classes, but they bringtremendous gifts.
They bring tremendous insightand tremendous perspective.
And when the context is such,they can share.
that I think a lot of reallypowerful things happen to those

(14:21):
that are present.

SPEAKER_01 (14:24):
Yeah.
Number 13.
What have you enjoyed most aboutthe teaching life?

SPEAKER_02 (14:32):
Well, the intellectual curiosity is
marvelous, but also theopportunity to travel and to
have dialogue partners indifferent parts of the world.
to be able to share your workwith different cultures and
different audiences and toreceive perspectives from people

(14:53):
from well beyond your culturalcontext.
I think that that's a preciousgift.
And I think that that's abeautiful thing.

SPEAKER_01 (15:02):
Last question.
At the conclusion of yourteaching career, so 50, 90 years
from now, not next semester, atthe conclusion of your teaching
career, what miracles will youhave performed?

SPEAKER_02 (15:15):
Well, I will hope that through my teaching that
someone will have been set free.
I will hope that blind eyes mayhave been opened.

(15:37):
I will hope that in my teachingthat I've awakened, that God has
used me by some miracle toawaken someone to faith and to
life.
And that through my work and mywitness, my scholarship, that I

(16:00):
will, by some miracle, leave theworld a little better off than I
found it.

SPEAKER_01 (16:11):
Eric Williams, thank you for this conversation.
Thank you.
To our listeners, we encourageyou to subscribe to the Wabash
Center newsletters.
Teaching Hub and Media Drop willkeep you informed.
Also, look on our website forinformation about our cohort
experiences, our educationalresources, as well as our

(16:32):
regranting program.
A special thanks to soundengineer Paul Myrie and podcast
producer Rachel Mills.
The music which frames theSilhouette podcast is the
original composition of PaulMyrie.
Wabash Center for more than 30years is exclusively funded by
Lilly Endowment Incorporated.
And we are out.

(16:52):
How was that, Paul?