Creator Spotlight: Nicholas Keating Casbarro

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to your go-to source for entertainment.
Wait for it Gaming.
Wait for it Anime.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
PLUS ULTRA.

Speaker 1 (00:11):
Mr Eric Almighty and Phil the Filipino.

Speaker 3 (00:14):
Yeah, they've got you covered, and all you gotta do
is wait for it.
This is the Wait For it Podcast.
Hey, everyone, welcome back tothe Wait For it Podcast.

(00:36):
I'm your co-host, phil Barrera,aka Phil the Filipino.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
And I'm your other co-host, mr Eric Almighty, and
for this edition of CreatorSpotlight, we are very excited
to bring on a guest that we methere in Jacksonville recently at
Collective Con and have sparkedan interest into his book,
which, phil, if you knowanything about me, I can't even
read.
So the fact that I startedreading this should say a lot,

(01:03):
and I think it's going to be agreat episode yeah, super
exciting.

Speaker 3 (01:07):
We we linked up with our guest, like you said, over
collective con weekend a coupledifferent times and, uh, he also
met some of our other friendswe've had on the show.
So it's all just kind of comestogether when we talk about all
this networking that we get todo whenever we do these
conventions and building theserelationships, which is really
what it is all about, and we areso excited to talk about his

(01:28):
project and his book here today.
So let's bring in our guests.
Nicholas Keating-Casabarro.
Nick, good to see you.
Thank you so much for takingthe time, and how are you doing
here tonight?

Speaker 1 (01:39):
I'm doing fantastic.
It's great to be here with youguys.

Speaker 3 (01:43):
Broke out the scotch for us as well.
We were talking a little bitbefore you got on, eric, so you
know only celebratory occasionshere when you talk about
throwing something back in your30s.
I was telling Nick I had arough night back in December and
it's been a little iffy for mewhen it comes to it.
A little touching, you know.
Yeah, so we appreciate that.

(02:03):
But, eric, we didn't.
We didn't bring anything.
I got some water, although Iwish I would have known I would
have brought like an aviaryorchard.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
Yeah, no, we would have.
We would have gone to the peak.

Speaker 3 (02:11):
It would have been great.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
So, no for sure, and, nick, again glad to have you
different for our series, butnot really, because this is
Creator Spotlight, where wespotlight other creative,
like-minded individuals, andbetween sci-fi and everything,

(02:34):
I've seen a lot of your socialmedia presence and seeing how
you talk about your creativeprocess.
This was just a match made inheaven.
So I kind of want to jump rightinto it and have you introduce
not only yourself and yourexperience as an author how that
became the thing that you donow but also the book itself and

(02:55):
and kind of start off therewith Vidalirum- yeah, absolutely
well.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
Thanks again for having me on, guys.
It was.
It was fantastic to meet you atCollective Con.
It's great to be here with youtonight To kind of answer your
question and tell you a littlebit about Vidularium Vidularium
is a budding sci-fi franchisethat I started about three and a
half years ago.
It includes a book series, ofwhich I have seven books

(03:23):
approved by my publisher, anaccompanying audio book series
and action series, film, videogames down the line, even board
games, everything.
Even if I have to create all ofthat sort of content myself,

(04:00):
this is a series that Ibasically plan to bring to full
fruition.
So Videlarium follows humanityafter we become multi-planetary,
all thanks to a new elementthat's discovered, which in the
book in that universe they callVidelarium.
And the story itself follows aroughneck freelancer about 700
years in the future, after we'vecolonized seven different human

(04:23):
planets.
And the freelancer, he's kindof a mercenary type.
He is doing odd jobs for localgangs.
When you first meet him as anadult, he's kind of a lost soul,
he's a drunk, he's basicallyspending money on booze and
whores, just floating throughlife, and what ends up happening

(04:44):
is the certain circumstancesbasically embroil him in a
massive conspiracy that has theauthoritarian government of his
planet hunting him.
So essentially he has to gangup with a kind of a motley crew
of allies to be able to survivethe ordeal.
And that's just book one.

(05:05):
That's just the tip of theiceberg.
For book one, we explore alldifferent types of.
I mean, we explore conspiracy,the ramifications of all
reaching power, we explore a lotof different philosophical kind
of I guess themes and you get alittle bit of everything with

(05:27):
this.
You get your mystery, you getaction Obviously it's a sci-fi
you get your advancedcivilization conversation, you
get moments of comedy, you get alittle bit of romance.
I certainly put the as I'm sureyou guys have noticed by now.
I put the protagonist through alot.
I had to give him a littlesomething.
So there's a love interest,there's conspiracy, there's

(05:50):
political intrigue, because youget to see what's happening in
the background, with all thepolitical turmoil that's brewing
, which actually is one of thethings that causes the conundrum
that the protagonist is in.
So you get a lot out of thisbook.
And, like I said, this is justthe very tip of the iceberg.
Right now I've got all sevenbooks planned out.

(06:12):
That could end up turning intomore than seven books, depending
upon how I decide to write themiddle segment of the book,
because I plan to.
Basically the first two booksare going to be on a planetary
scale, so it's going to befollowing his goings on on
planet Dior, and then the secondsegment is going to be on a

(06:35):
galactic scale where you'refollowing their journeys to all
of the different colonizedplanets and then in the third
segment, then we're going tostart getting weird.
So, yeah, it's been a veryinteresting ride so far.
I started, like I said, threeand a half years ago.
I wrote the majority, like thevast majority, of this book at

(06:59):
36,000 feet.
All of this started when I wasworking in medical devices.
The job that I had basicallyhad me on a plane three to five
days a week and essentially Ihad all this plane time.
I had nothing really elsebetter to do.
I had beaten Netflix.
At this point I'm downloadingepisodes to shows I don't even

(07:22):
want to watch.
I said I'm wasting my time.
Like what am I doing?
So I had had a few ideas that Ihad built up from.
Some of them were ideas thatI've had since I was like in
high school and just didn't knowwhat I could possibly do with
them, didn't think I even reallyhad it in me to become an
author.
I'd always put like people whodid like creative things like

(07:45):
that for a living, almost kindof on a pedestal, like an
unreachable pedestal, like oh,that's they, they have something
special, they, they're geniuses.
That's how they got to thatpoint.
There's, which you know, given,I'm sure, a good amount of them
.
Yes, but I just I had neverimagined that as something that
I could do myself.
Sorry, that's my, uh, my justunder two year old in the

(08:09):
background.
Uh, I think she's getting bathtime right now.
I think that should be overrelatively soon.
But I'd always kind of put thaton a pedestal.
But I had had all these ideas.
I kind of gathered them up intoa little bit of a history and I
said, all right, well, let mesee what I can do with this.
So I got on a long flight.

(08:30):
I was going from Miami toHawaii for a big burn conference
that I went to every year.
It's the Boswick BurnConference.
It's a gathering of traumaticburn surgeons, which was my
specialty in medical device.
Gathering of traumatic burnsurgeons, which was my specialty
in medical device.
Great, great convention, greatpeople really dealing with some

(08:54):
very, very tough situations thatpatients are going through.
You don't want to gettraumatically burned.
I've been in the OR countlesstimes with some very, very
severely injured patients andthese guys and girls, they saved
lives.
So I was flying to thisconvention and I got off the
plane after I had startedwriting and I was on chapter

(09:16):
four and I was like holy shit.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
It just came out of nowhere.

Speaker 1 (09:21):
It just poured out of me and I was like, well, I got
to plan this out.
So I started planning in anExcel document.
I was like, all right, well,what are the themes I want to
talk about?
Just so I can have my ideasstraight and make sure I have
kind of like an anchor to referto as I'm writing this, and that
every question that I answeredbrought up five more questions

(09:43):
that I was like, well, if I'mgoing to write this out, I want
to be able to see it.
I've always been a very visualperson, so that definitely helps
Making sure that I can see whatI'm writing in my head
answering all these questions.
And once again, that brought upmore questions.

(10:04):
And suddenly I was designing allthe planets.
How many moons do they have?
What type of planet is it?
What's the government structure?
What are the people like there?
What language do they speak?
What's the flora and fauna looklike on the planet where this
is taking place?
What are the factions?
Who are we dealing with?
Who are the players in thiskind of multi-narrative story

(10:24):
that I'm telling the players inthis kind of multi-narrative
story that I'm telling what doesreligion look like 700 years
from now?
I had to create a religion andwrite out the religious tenets
of that religion and incorporatethat into the story.
And suddenly I had this tabthat was, excuse me, an Excel
document that was like 40 tabslong just spelling out

(10:44):
everything from the technologyto the characters, their
backstory, and I had a perfectstoryboard to work with.
And so I just kept writing fromthere and I kind of stayed
vigilant about it.
Anytime I was on a plane I waslike that's my writing time.
I do nothing else but write.
Even when I'm dead tired, I'mgoing to write, and so that's

(11:06):
where I wrote.
Basically this entire bookEnded up getting connected with
a publisher through a familyfriend who basically said, like,
look, I'll introduce you tothese people, you give them your
pitch and if they like it,they'll take you on.
If they don't like it, then yougot more work to do.
Well, they ended up liking it,especially after I broke out the

(11:29):
40 tab Excel document and I waslike look what I got planned.
I was, I was very, very excited.
I wish I had videotaped that tosee, like, just so I could
revisit it and see like theexcitement.
And see like the excitement.
I was like forcing on this thispoor girl who was listening to
me, this poor woman as I waslike explaining, I talked for

(11:51):
like 30 minutes straight and youknow, here we are today and now
I've I've since, like I said,I've created an offshoot comic
that follows right now the samenarrative of the book, but it
only follows the protagonistright now.
But I've been consulting with myillustrator and my colorist and

(12:12):
we, basically I created a canonwhere I'm going to follow the
main character through his storyarc.
I'm going to have a wholebefore the book time when he's
an adult kind of a time periodthat I don't really get into,
where I go into just his exploitas a freelancer, basically,

(12:32):
like I said, doing jobs forgangs and just random citizens
that have a job for him.
He's a very skilled person,especially in the ways of
violence, although he seems tohave a surprisingly sound moral
compass which makes him, atleast in my opinion, a likable
protagonist.

(12:53):
I have plans for othercharacters' story arcs that I'll
follow through, only followingthose characters, which will
allow me to build on theircharacter a bit more.
And then I have, like I said,that one comic that I think I
gave to both of you guys.
That's just one chapter from thebook.
And the book is what?

(13:13):
31 chapters plus a prologue andan epilogue.
And so I've got more contentthan I know what to do with and
not enough hours in the day tobe able to do what I want to do
with, and not enough hours inthe day to be able to do what I
want to do with this story.
And I actually just reached outto the folks at UCF to try and
partner with some students thereto get a short animated film

(13:38):
created where I can bring one ofthe chapters truly bring one of
the chapters to life, and Ialready have a full plan of what
I plan to do with that.
So we're moving fast.
It's been a lot of fun.
It's probably the most fun I'vehad with anything that I've
ever done in my life.
If there's one thing that doesnot feel like work, it just

(13:59):
feels like something I have todo and I love doing this is it,
and that's why I say like it'ssomething.
I'm hanging my hat on this,because I've never felt more
fulfillment aside from familyand things like that but more

(14:20):
fulfillment in doing somethingthat I love than doing this.
Plus, I've been a sci-fi fansince I was a kid, so to be able
to bring you know just a bonafide sci-fi story to life, it's
the fucking best man.
It's just awesome.

Speaker 2 (14:36):
I love that.
Yeah, and Nick, we couldabsolutely feel that passion and
all of that when we met you,which is why we're so excited to
have you on, and, phil, I knowyou feel the same.

Speaker 3 (14:48):
Yeah, you can really see that excitement and that
passion come through when wemeet you at the booth and you're
telling people what the storyis about.
And I remember one thing youtold that story about how you
wrote most of it while you werein the air and we had made a
comment.
We were like, oh so you were,you know, as close to space that
you possibly could have been inorder to write this story,

(15:10):
which I thought was just so veryfitting.
And you know, in my opinion youknow, and I think a lot of
people will share this too is Ibelieve that writing is really
the most intimate form ofstorytelling.
You kind of went through yourcreative process here with us
just a moment ago.
As far as being an author andwriting and going down the path

(15:31):
you are now, is that somethingyou always knew you wanted to do
before you were in yourprofessional career that you
just talked to us about?

Speaker 1 (15:35):
Not at all.
It was probably the last thingI thought I would ever do, which
is strange when you look at.
You know, when I was in highschool, the only college level
course I ever took as a seniorwas a creative writing class.
I did enjoy it but, once again,I had always kind of put famous
writers you know successfulwriters on this pedestal, like

(15:57):
you know.
That's all they.
They just they had something.
It was something special and Icouldn't really put my finger on
it, something intangible thatthey had fulfillment or you know
what have you.
And part of that was probablyjust immaturity at the time.

(16:29):
I just didn't know, I was young, and part of that was I was
kind of already in, I was kindof already on a track to, you
know, follow a specific career.
I actually went to school to bea physical therapist.
I went to school up north inBoston, at Northeastern, and I
was in physical therapy schoolto get my doctorate in physical

(16:51):
therapy.
And I just realized one day,like this isn't what I want to
do, like this is not making mehappy, this is not what's
exciting me, because get, I getsuper, super into things when
I'm, when I'm interested insomething, I will immerse myself

(17:12):
completely unprompted.
No one needs to tell me to doit, I don't need to, you know,
harp on myself to get it done, Ijust do.
I want to, like, I fiend for it, I need it almost, whereas if
I'm not in my heart's, not in it, I just, you know, when I was
in school, I was basically theguy who was, you know, showing

(17:33):
up once every three classes andthen showing up on test day
getting my B minus and then, youknow, walking out and see you
later and a lot of people I'msure were not too big of fans of
me for that who are, you know,studying hard and trying to, you
know, make this their career,because that's I mean, it is
they're.
I don't want to say I was beingdisrespectful, but it can

(17:56):
certainly be looked at as likedisrespectful for people who
want to like make that theircareer.
And I just wasn't feeling it.
I just didn't know it at thetime.
But I ended up graduating early.
So before I got my doctorate,much to my uh, my parents'
chagrin and I ended up goinginto medical device sales
because I still I had like therewas an interest in the sciences

(18:20):
, like I liked the medicalsciences and it's something I
certainly took into the book aswell.
The book is a hundred percentmedically accurate and it's not
just from my background.
My wife is a surgeon as welland, you know, anytime I was
coming across something a little, you know, getting into the
weeds with something, I couldalways bounce things off her.

(18:41):
You know, hey, like what, what,what happens if, what would
what if this happened to someone?
Like how would that be treated?
Or what would have to happen?
You know, she's just a wealthof information, she's badass and
she's my toughest beta reader,hands down my toughest beta
reader.
If anyone's going to tell methat there's a part of the book
that is absolute shit, it is herand she is not going to be

(19:05):
polite about it.
So I'm lucky to have herbecause you know, the people who
are toughest on you are theones who are going to push you
to be great.
So to be able to have that inmy corner and have her in my
corner, I'm very grateful, verylucky in that respect, and I
kind of went off on a tangentthere.
I forgot what the originalquestion was no.

Speaker 3 (19:27):
no, you answered it, it was.
You know?
Did you always know that youwanted to be a writer?
Did you know?
How did you find yourself onthis path so?

Speaker 1 (19:34):
yeah and yeah, I guess.
Short answer now.

Speaker 3 (19:40):
Let's circle back.
No, yeah, no.
I think, a lot of people canrelate to that story too,
because so many of us and Ericand I can relate to this because
we, you know, we still have ourday jobs and still work very
hard on this and we just gothrough the motions nine to five
and then we really put our footon the gas.
When we do stuff like this,we're at the conventions, you

(20:00):
know it's like a switch flips,you know.
So I can certainly understandthat.
As far as when you're doingsomething that I was a C's get
degrees kind of guy, you know,like I knew I could, I could get
through and get by.
But I'm like you and Eric isthe same way.
When we're really passionateabout something, that's when we
can, that's when the resultsshow.

(20:22):
You know, and Eric, I think youknow you can just look at, kind
of what we built and that kindof speaks for itself.

Speaker 1 (20:28):
Isn't that kind of funny how you can always seem to
find a second wind when it'ssomething where you know there
there's passion present?

Speaker 3 (20:37):
Yeah, I'll be exhausted at work and then get
home and be like, all right, I'mready to go Like, let's, let's
do this.
You wouldn't know, this is notthe person that they get during
the day.
So yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
That is, uh, that is valid and uh, you know, nick,
again, that's definitely onepart of the equation is the real
world experience that you bring.
Uh, you know from the medicalfield, you brought it into the
book.
The passion that you have forsomething you love, you bring,
you know, from the medical field, you brought it into the book.
The passion that you have forsomething you love, you bring
into the book.
Obviously there's such a bigscience fiction portion of it.
It's a sci-fi story.
I'm very curious where yourpassions have stemmed from

(21:19):
within sci-fi, because that issuch a big part of it.
And whenever I see a sci-fistory, homages Maybe isn't
always the right word, but thereare absolutely, you would say,
tropes and homages that arepresent In sci-fi stories and
that's part of the game, Part ofthe name of the game, right?
So I'm curious what storiesmoved you when you were younger,

(21:42):
even to now, and stories movedyou when you were younger, even
to now, and what kind ofinfluences have there been into
this particular series thatyou're making?

Speaker 1 (21:51):
Yeah, absolutely so.
When I was a kid, the firstsci-fi that I was ever really
introduced to was Star Wars, andit was my father who introduced
it to me when I was probably Idon't even remember how old I
was, I was probably like 10.
I mean, who knows, we had atrilogy on VHS, like the

(22:14):
original trilogy, that's what?
Episodes four through six.
Yeah, episodes four through sixon VHS.
I remember watching those overand over again.
We know whether he was there orwhether, you know, it was just
me, and so that was alwayssomething that was kind of like

(22:34):
a bonding point between me andmy dad, which I always liked,
and even now, like when he'llcome over, like he'll come over
with my mom, you know, to visitmy daughter Sloane, and, um, you
know, once she's asleep andonce my wife and my mom go to
sleep, you know he'll come upand he'll be like, yeah, let's
watch something, let's, let'ssee what's new out there and

(22:57):
we'll throw on like a sci-fiflick and see what's, you know
what's what's new, and so that Idefinitely had that.
You know I've always had that tobond over with him.
So that's kind of where itstarted from.
There it kind of stemmed into.
You know, I he gave me the Dunebook.
The first one was the one thathe had and then I ended up

(23:20):
buying the subsequent onesmyself way down the line.
But I mean, let me see if I Igot I mean this.
It is like it is one of the oldversions of Dune, like it's and
you get like this has been wellflipped through a couple of
different times.
It's it's old, it's basicallyfalling apart.
I don't know I'm gonna have tolike frame this or something,

(23:43):
but Dune was always a big, a biginfluence for me.
I loved Frank Herbert's work andhe actually writes in the
omniscient perspective, which issomething that I also took on.
I took on that omniscientperspective because I enjoyed, I
like the ability of being ableto tell the reader everything

(24:06):
that's going on in the room,whether it's the perspective of
one character or perspective ofanother character in the same
room what's going on in theirheads, what's happening in the
background.
I feel like I mean, with anytype of narration that you take
on, there are going to bestrengths and weaknesses or

(24:26):
pitfalls, whatever.
But in this book, and when youguys finally get to the epilogue
, I think you'll understand whyI chose that perspective,
because I actually did it for aspecific reason.
So when you get to the book,you really find out what that
reason is, why you can seeeverything that's going on in

(24:48):
this story and, um, that wasreally fun for me.
Uh, some other things that I'vealways.
I I've been a big fan of isaacasimov, as his short stories are
.
There's no comparison.
I think he was one of the bestout there.
He was really great at justtaking a single concept and

(25:10):
fleshing that out in 10 to 15pages and showing either the
ramifications, the pitfall of acertain technology, the what
could potentially come of thisparticular concept if it goes
off the rails.
I love the idea of sci-fi asalmost like an exploration of

(25:35):
ways that humanity can fuck itall up, because it's great for
that.
It's a way for us to explore,well, what happens if we do go
this route.
How can we screw it up if thisis something we, you know,
decide to put all our eggs inthis basket.
You know what happens.

(25:55):
Let's flesh that out, you know,100 years down the road and see
what happens.
And see what happens.
I think it actually helps us toidentify some potential
pitfalls for ourselves.
You know, as humanity, as wecontinue to progress in this
ever-advancing technologicalworld, and I think there's value

(26:16):
to it, which is why I thinkit's kind of a shame to see,
especially in like the academicrealm, that they've kind of
eschewed it.
Like I went to a big conventioncalled the AWP convention, which
is very it's academic, andthere were a lot of writers

(26:38):
there, a lot of memoirs, a lotof this voice, that voice, and
that's all good and fine.
But there was one sci-fi bookthere in the whole place and I
ended up talking to the guy Iwon't say his name, but we kind
of bonded because he was asci-fi fan.
He was like, yeah, we only gotone here.

(26:58):
It's the only sci-fi book Ifound at a 200 plus booth
convention and I was like, oh myGod, like this is crazy.
And so he actually gave me.
He said, come back, if no one'sbought this book by the end of
the uh, the convention, I'llgive it to you.
So I went back at the end andno one had gotten it.
Surprise, and uh, he was likehere, you just take it.

(27:19):
And I was like, oh hell, yeah,man, thank you.
So we've been keeping in touchsporadically.
He's a good guy, but it's just.
It's sad because, like I said,there is a lot of value to be
had in the exploration of If wego down this.

(27:49):
It's all about humanity's placein the ever evolving
technological sphere.
It's how do we adapt, how do weevolve with it to ensure that
we remain you know that weremain a constant, and I think
there's a lot of value in it,absolutely.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
And I think there's a lot of value in it.
Absolutely, and I think youknow it's telling that sci-fi,
even after all these years, isstill so relevant in pop culture
because it talks abouteverything.
I mean we're dealing with AInow.
We're dealing with the samemaybe not the same, but similar
political structures as wealways have.
It continues to grow and getmolded and form.

(28:26):
So there's so many things, phil, that are relevant, not only in
the genre, but in this book aswell, and I kind of started to
figure that out very early on inmy reading.

Speaker 3 (28:37):
Yeah, and even though , nick, you just said, you know
you're not trying to simplify itin terms of sci-fi and those
story elements, but the twothings that came to mind
immediately uh, the shirt I'mwearing today horizon, zero dawn
, talking about how humanityfucked things up.
That's one of the main, themain sources of storyline and
horizon.
And then we talked about it atcollective con in mass effect.

(28:59):
When you talk about thepolitical intrigue and
everything that goes on in thatgame, yes, there are a lot of
really crazy action sequences InMass Effect, but it all comes
back to Somebody wanting morepower Than they should have or
something along those lines.
And those are, even if they arethings that pop up quite a bit.

(29:21):
If they're done correctly,we'll be there.
So if those things are done theright way, if they're done
correctly, we'll be there, youknow.
So if those things are done theright way and they're
intriguing, then sign us up allthe time.
I'd like to know, because Ididn't stand up.
I still do stand up from timeto time, but I did stand up for
a little bit over 10 years,consistently, and I was always
worried about accidentallycoming up with a joke or a
premise that had already beendone, and I imagine that when

(29:43):
writing a novel, that challengeis even greater.
So we just talked aboutinspirations.
How do you draw balance frominspiration from other works
while also ensuring that yourstory that you're trying to tell
stays original?

Speaker 1 (29:56):
That is a very good question, and so I try and I'll
be honest.
My exploration of currentsci-fi has actually been a
little, I don't want to saylacking, but I've almost
hesitated to try and dive intoother people's current sci-fi

(30:17):
works because I almost don'twant to bias myself or begin to.
You know Stephen King.
He has a book called On Writing, which is basically like his
memoir, where he talks about howhe got into writing his story.
You know just his whole storythroughout his writing career.

(30:37):
And he said you know, I readthis book and for a while I
wrote like this author.
And then I read that book andfor a while I wrote like this
author.
And then I read that book andfor a while I wrote like that
author.
And then suddenly you find yourplace and I almost tried to
refrain from taking on otherpeople's voices by focusing

(30:58):
solely on my work and pullinginspiration from different parts
.
I mean you can pull inspirationfrom just about anywhere.
If you know what to look for,if you can break down a simple
event that happens in your dayto day, if you can break it down
and look at the differentelements that were involved in
that and what happened, you getinto an argument with someone at

(31:22):
a, a coffee shop, like itdoesn't matter, like you can
find inspiration literallyanywhere.
And yeah, I, as far as sci-fiworks that I pull inspiration
from, I try and pull from theclassics, because I feel like
anyone who is writing today isprobably all, probably also has

(31:44):
their roots in the classics ofsci-fi and so they're gonna
write, you know they're, they'regonna expound upon sci-fi from
their perspective of that,whereas I'm gonna expound upon
it from my perspective, andthat's kind of the way that I
like to treat it for now.
As, as far as it's funny, youmentioned Mass Effect earlier

(32:07):
and I'm a huge, huge game fan.
Mass Effect I loved, Iabsolutely loved.
Funny enough, one of the firstsci-fi games I really got into
was XCOM back in the day andXCOM 2 uh, all of those.
And then my father played a gameand he used to my father was

(32:31):
not the most tech savvy, so,like when he would play video
games, there was a.
There was an old space game andI don't know maybe you guys are
familiar with this it was a pcgame called freelancer and it's
uh, and it was a sci-fi gamewhere basically it's an RPG
where you follow this guy who'sdoing freelance work Interesting

(32:54):
, funny.
We could.
We could probably draw a littleinspiration from that as far as
to what ends up turning into mybook.
But he, you know, you're flyingspacecraft from one galaxy to
another galaxy and you're doingwork for all these different
factions.
And you know my father, he couldnever find the right, you know,

(33:19):
hand positioning to hit all thebuttons when he was flying
planes.
So I used to be sitting therewatching him play and I would
hit the F button to fire amissile or the Z button to
produce the nanobots to healyour ship or whatever.
So I got into it and theneventually I played it myself

(33:39):
when I was old enough.
But I pull a lot of inspirationfrom video games that I played.

Speaker 3 (33:46):
Love, love, love, love sci-fi video games,
anything you could throw at meyeah, I haven't played this
myself, but I do recognize thisloading screen because I believe
people have brought it up on,like some youtube channels that
I watch, in terms of games thatthey they played before.
So, yeah, I've never playedthis myself, but yeah, like you
said, the Mass Effect series isso outstanding.

(34:08):
And again, I think we I don'tremember if we, you know we
talked about it a little bitwhile we were at Collective.
But when you talk about theimportance of storytelling, how
did Mass Effect end?
Right, that's one of thosethings where people bring up all
the time it's.
It's structured so well frombeginning, all the way up until
that part, and then, you know,the mass effect series is where

(34:30):
it is now.
But I totally understand that asfar as wanting to try and stay
away from a lot of uh, the thenewer stuff to make sure it
doesn't influence you too much,I did that with stand-up comedy
as well.
I would try not to.
I'd find that if I watched acomic too much, I would then
start imitating their mannerisms, their way of writing, their
way of delivering jokes, andthat's something I had to step

(34:51):
away from.
So I totally understand that,eric.
We're the same way with otherpodcasts.
We try not to listen to toomany other pop culture shows
because we just want to makesure that we stay true to the
sound and the vision that wewant to deliver.

Speaker 2 (35:02):
Yeah, that's exactly what we are striving for and,
you know, the word I try to useis inspiration.
I do get inspiration sometimesfrom other content creators or
other podcasters, but I don'twant that to be taken indirectly
as trying to.
You know, take that work andmake it my own, and that's such

(35:23):
a hard thing.
Being in any creative process,but especially your line of work
, I could only imagine that thatis always front of mind.
I would like to pivot a littlebit because I, you know, as we
get ready to talk maybe a littlebit more about the book here in
a moment, I noticed as I wasreading, as I was preparing some

(35:43):
time to read the book, settingaside time to actually read it,
which in itself is a challengethese days, you know, especially
for me.
Phil is more of the avid bookreader than I am, so I had to
slot some time up and I'm a bigSpotify guy.
So I'm just kind of lookingaround and I noticed that you

(36:03):
had a playlist of like, almostlike over 250 songs, and you

(36:26):
know, you, of the vibes of whatyou're building and the world
itself, or during the creativeprocess, like, does music
inspire you or influence you inany way when it comes to those
things.

Speaker 1 (36:40):
Massively and I actually I'm so glad you brought
that up because that'ssomething I feel like I neglect
to say in a lot of like thesetype of forums, which usually
it's just, you know, I couldtalk for hours on end on this
stuff because, you know, thesources of my inspiration are

(37:01):
just, they're plentiful, so but,but that is a huge one.
So thank you for bringing thatup.
But, yeah, no, music is hugeand I'm I'm a I'm a huge metal
head and you know, back in theday I was a big raver too.
I used to go to all thedifferent like electric, daisy,
carnival, ultra music festival.
I had a big group of friends incollege and we used to go to

(37:24):
these gigantic raids and just,well, I mean we get a little
fucking crazy.
If I'm being real with you.
But putting my interpretation ofit, as the modern day unfolds

(37:46):
and you know, as we see newthings emerge in technology and
try and extrapolate and expoundupon that and push that out, I
wanted to put my own spin on itand so, as I'm sure you can tell
, I mean right after chapter one, I mean you can tell like the
story is dark.
There's some heartbreakingmoments, there are some

(38:10):
malevolent characters in thisbook, for sure, and I have
always found metal to be like anawesome outlet for getting my
own anger out.
You know, whether that's at thegym or just on a the gym or
just if I'm sitting on the plane, and that playlist that you
listen to is literally that isactually a derivative of a much

(38:33):
larger, about 650 song playlistthat is also on Spotify.
It's called Raw Vidularium.
I think the one you werelistening to is the one I had in
my link.
It's Vidularium Descent intothe Void.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
Descent into the Void , yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:47):
Yeah, raw Vidularium is even bigger and it's
basically the playlist that Iwould put on and just listen to
it until it turned to whitenoise and that's what I would
write to.
Because what I found was that,you know, people think like,
well, how the hell would youlisten or would you be able to

(39:10):
write when you're listening tolike that much noise, but after
a while it's kind of the feelingthat you're left with that
remains and everything elseturns to white noise and I can
just tune out and type and I canthink more clearly than than
ever.
So that was huge.
I wanted to have some of thoseelements basically come through
in the book as I was writing it.
I wanted it to have that darkfeel, I wanted it to be heavy

(39:34):
and I wanted, uh, you know,cyberpunk in general, which I
mean my book would definitelyfall under.
William Gibson is the guy whocreated, you know, the concept
of cyberpunk in his book,neuromancer, and you know the
subsequent books in that seriesand it's a dark, dingy future.

(39:54):
I mean it is just.
It's not necessarily thebeautiful utopia that you think
of when you think of like, oh,the world's getting better with
each year.
Well, it's, it's no, it's likeit's.
It's.
I think his quote from the bookis the future's here.
It's just not evenly dispersedand that was something I

(40:16):
definitely wanted to um bringinto my own writing.
So if you see, like Phil, Ithink you're probably already
there.
Eric, I don't know if you'rethere yet, it won't be too much
of a spoiler.
But there's a part of the city,the mega city that they're in,
called the grind, which isbasically the ring around all of

(40:40):
the city states, where themajority of the citizens live
and it's just, it's not the bestliving conditions.
It's, you know, there's a lotof technology, but it's not a
clean place, it's smoggy, it'sgross, there's a lot of crime,
it's kind of a free-for-all, andthat's kind of what I wanted to
bring.

(41:00):
And one of the ways I did thatwas, you know, through the music
that I wrote bring.
And one of the ways I did thatwas, you know, through the music
that I wrote for, I mean, I'dsay one of the most influential
bands that I listened to.
That really helped me kind ofthink about especially the
themes that I talk about in thebook, is Parkway Drive, which
you guys know.
Parkway Drive, right.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
Yeah, I've, I've heard a couple of songs, but the
first thing I noticed when Iwent to the playlist, especially
the raw playlist just now verypresent- they are very present

(41:45):
metalcore, like anything thatcan get, especially the metal
that you know can kind oftransition into.

Speaker 1 (41:49):
It's got kind of that futuristic sound to it.
I love it, I absolutely love it.
One of the things I want to doin, I'd say, like the next year
or so, is get to like one of thebig metal festivals, like a
Warped Tour, like one of the bigones, like that.
Yeah.
I've been a fan, fan, my wholelife.

Speaker 3 (42:04):
I don't know what kind of music you guys are into.

Speaker 1 (42:06):
But and then obviously, with the future, I
had a lot of like darkelectronic in there as well, a
lot of just kind of the wit.
I scour Spotify for just theweirdest sounding songs I could
possibly find.
At times I was like what is thebest representation of a
dystopian future?

(42:26):
Just to get my mind in thatframe as I was writing it, and
yeah, that was a hugeinspiration, I'd say.
The only other thing that Ireally don't talk about a whole
lot, which I probably shouldtalk about more, is Phil you've.
You've seen one of the thedream sequences in this in the
book, right?

Speaker 3 (42:45):
yep, though.
Uh, yeah, the, I believeprobably the first one, I assume
yeah so I I've got I've gotsome pretty fucked up dreams.

Speaker 1 (42:56):
I experience sleep paralysis on like a fairly
regular basis, basically whereyou think you're woken up,
you're not entirely woken up,you can't move, but basically
you can't move anything exceptyour eyes, and almost always and
without fail.
For some reason and this issomething that they've

(43:17):
documented with other people whoexperience sleep paralysis it
seems to be like a recurringfactor.
Is you always see some kind ofdark figure, either like
standing in the corner of theroom or moving around at the
foot of your bed.
When it happens to me, so like,I always see a dark figure at
the foot of my bed and then Irecognize what's happening.

(43:38):
But even though I recognizewhat's happening, there is like
a, this sense of pure terrorthat is like screaming down my
spine, like I can't like becauseI can't move, I can't do
anything.
Even when I know what it is is.
The best thing I can do is getmy eyes shut.
But when I get my eyes shut, Ialmost feel like I hear

(44:02):
something whispering in my earevery single time, without fail.
It's the creepiest fuckingthing in the world and I don't
know how to make it stop, butit's, it's, it's just I don't
know.
I just figured I'd use it, soI've embraced it and I've
started using it in the writing,and so every dream sequence
that you go through in this bookseries will be a derivative or

(44:26):
will be based on some kind ofdream that I've had, because it
never starts where you just openyour eyes.
You're always having a dreamfirst, and then you open your
eyes and uh, yeah, that's apretty consistent feeling for
everybody.

Speaker 3 (44:43):
For a lot of people that go through sleep paralysis
as well, uh is the feeling of,of course you're not able to
move, but you can only move youreyes.
Then the figure sometimes itvaries.
I do, I'm very much into theparanormal and things like that.
So have you tried, and if youknow, if this is something you
know, a technique that you knowyou're not into, but you're not
you're not defending mewhatsoever but a friend of mine

(45:05):
who went through, who was goingthrough some sleep paralysis,
she did sage her room and thatseemed to work.
So not sure if you've evertried that.

Speaker 1 (45:20):
But, you know, just throwing some of those other
things out there that I've heardpeople try.
Uh no, you know it's funny, mywife used to sage the house
every time we, uh, we went intoa new house and and, uh, I I
gotta say that certainly didn'thelp.
And yeah, I'll also say thisresults may vary.
Results may vary.
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
I almost don't want it to goaway because, like I said, I get
so much good material from this, as crazy as that sounds like,

(45:46):
I get so many good ideas, likethe second.
It happens like I wake up fromit and, you know, once my heart
stops beating, I just go rightto my phone and I start writing
down everything, like I type itin.
That's it I've.
I've gotten some of my bestideas for how to either fix plot
holes or how to make a story goin a much more interesting

(46:09):
direction or, um, a good ideafor you know what to do with a
certain character, from justbeing like right on the cusp of
sleep, and then I'll just pop upoff my bed like a fucking
vampire and I'm like I just gotto write it down.

Speaker 3 (46:27):
Sounds like oh yeah sorry.
Oh no, I was going to say itsounds like you've got maybe
like a little bit of a ghostwriter, right, Right guys.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
Is that a thing with novels or just music?
I?

Speaker 1 (46:42):
didn't like that very much.
I mean, who knows what it isreally?
To be honest, I mean, that'sjust, it's funny.
You know there's a lot of, andI've seen some podcasts where
some people come on and they'retrying to talk about, you know,
the paranormal as something thatshould be studied more.

(47:04):
I think you should studyeverything.
I mean, let's figure it all out, why not?
But they're starting to call itparascience rather than the
paranormal, to to basically tryand legitimize it and find
different ways to measure someof these different things.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
I think that's super interesting and hell man.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
I think if there's any strange phenomenon that you
know isn't well explained, let'sfigure it out.
I mean, who knows what we'regoing to come to the realization
of?
You know, with some kind ofreal research into it, what this
is.
I can't.
I can only speculate.

(47:44):
I don't, you know, I don't haveenough degrees, but I do know
that it's fairly consistent.
Do know that it's it's fairlyconsistent.
What I have found that I thinkis really interesting is that if
I'm starting to slack off onthe writing a little bit or I'm
starting to get sidetracked,they seem to come back with a

(48:06):
vengeance.

Speaker 3 (48:08):
I think it's you dreams do you think it's you
from another reality?
Who knows who's to say?
It's funny.
Like you talk about parascience, we're also seeing that kind of
with cryptozoology as well,because that's always tied to
Bigfoot, the Loch Ness monster.
And, like you said, there isvalue in researching that

(48:31):
because we find new organisms inthe Amazon every week.
Who's to say there can't besomething weird in the state of
Washington in the woods?
You know what I mean, so Iunderstand where a portion of it
has obviously become.
You know a little bit of a jokebut, like you said, there's
value in research and that stuff.

Speaker 1 (48:52):
No, I agree, I mean with anything right.

Speaker 3 (48:54):
You want to make sure that you leave no stone
unturned, Eric knows I can talkabout paranormal and the
cryptozoology, so Eric needs tostep in here.

Speaker 2 (49:06):
Where you at, Eric.
But you know, as we wrapped upthe conversation, from my last
question, Phil.
I don't know if there's anythingspecific to the book you maybe
want to ask, but I'll definitelyfollow up and say that a lot of
this is making sense because,like, you've got these things
that are going on from.
You know the traumatic thingsyou're going through in your

(49:27):
field of work at that time, theunique situation of being up in
the air and writing this storyand then you're talking about.
Sometimes when you're sleepingyou're going through absolute
terror but you're turning thatinto like a superpower and I
think that's really really cool.
When it comes to the creativeprocess, in addition to what you
were mentioning about the music, I know for me, I just don't

(49:52):
like drowning in the silence.
So if I don't have musicplaying, I feel lost, and that's
in a drive, on the, in the carthat's here sitting in my office
.
It doesn't matter if I couldalways have headphones on, I
probably would, and I know thata lot of rock music, but metal
specifically, was my thing inhigh school, like Slipknot,

(50:12):
system of a Down Disturbed.
These are all bands that got methrough a lot of mentally hard
times.
So, again, a lot of that justkind of are showing us the
building blocks of how youbecame the author that you are
and I just think that's really,really cool and I'm really cool
to.
It's really cool to unlockthose things through this

(50:35):
dialogue.
And, phil, again, when we talkabout the book specifically and
really the first couple chapters, none of this is surprising now
that we hear it.
It just really puts a lot ofthings into context.

Speaker 3 (50:47):
Yeah for sure.
And also, can we say Metalheadssome of the coolest people that
you will ever meet, even if youdon't necessarily listen to the
music.
It's a very, very welcomingcommunity, so I very much love
that.
I want to ask, as we transitionto talking about Vidularium and
as we talked about before westarted I'm about to.
I think I'm a little bit intoChapter 7.
Eric is a little bit behind me,but I have been very much

(51:10):
enjoying it.
I want to tell the story to theaudience as well that I told you
guys before we got going.
There was probably a momentbecause I've been listening at
work and I think there was like,hopefully I don't listen to
this, they won't listen to this.
It's like a 20, 25 minute spanwhere, like, I hadn't done any
work because I was so justenthralled with what was
happening in the, in the bookand I was like, oh shit, I gotta

(51:30):
let me lock in and do some workas well.
So I very much been enjoyinglistening to it.
I do want to make sure we shoutout Michael Neeb, who is the
narrator for the audio book.
He was excellent.
I want to ask about Roman.
You know you alluded to itearlier.
You know he's a deep.
He has a deeply tragicbackstory that unfolds very
early on in the story.

(51:50):
I want to know, in your words,what you think sets him apart
from other protagonists and alsoalso again, like we talked
about inspirations, any otherfictional characters that
influenced his creationabsolutely.

Speaker 1 (52:03):
Just before I get into the answer to your question
, eric, I know the sleep tokenis pretty deep into that list,
so I knew you were a metalheadright away and I'm like just
getting into sleep token in likethe last year or two.

Speaker 2 (52:17):
But yeah, take me back to Eden is like a fantastic
listen.
I mean you, you talk about justwanting to dive in and just
kill the noise everywhere else.
I mean, that'll do it.

Speaker 1 (52:28):
Yeah and um, system of a down was the first album
that I ever bought with my ownmoney.
It was the aerials.
My favorite line from that songis swimming through the void.
We hear the word, we loseourself, but we find it all.
How fucking deep is that shit?

Speaker 3 (52:48):
The Serb was the first concert Eric and I ever
went to together.
It was my first concert ever,but it was the first concert he
and I went to together System ofa Down, though.

Speaker 2 (52:59):
System of a Down and Slipknot are like the two bands
I never saw live that I justkick myself every day Because
the music can get really deep.
People think they're justshouting or being silly or goofy
.
It's so much more than that.

Speaker 1 (53:13):
No, it is so much more than that.
There are some heavy themesthat you know these artists
tackle in their songs and ifthere's any, it's funny.
You know they may scream them,but some of the lyrics are more
poetic than any of the musicthat's in popular, the popular
sphere now today.
I mean it's, some of the stuffin popular music is garbage in

(53:33):
my opinion, but you know thatstuff is.
It's heavy, it's deep.
But to go back to your, yourquestion, phil, I'm sorry I had
to address that.

Speaker 3 (53:42):
No, no, you're good.

Speaker 1 (53:46):
So so your question was what kind of how Roman was
formulated.

Speaker 3 (53:50):
Yeah, so you know in your eyes what kind of sets him
apart from other protagonists.
And also, were there anyfictional characters that also
influenced you in creating him?

Speaker 1 (54:00):
As far as what sets him apart from other
protagonists.
I feel like I mean this.
You're following in Vidularium,the series itself, because
right now book one is the onlyone that's available.
Book two is about, I'd sayabout halfway done.
I actually just finishedanother chapter yesterday,
hoping to have that out by theend of next year.

(54:21):
Over the course of his entirestory arc, throughout the seven
book series, you're basicallywatching the origin story of a
future mythological hero unfold,basically the person who
becomes the most importantperson in future history, and
why and how that happens.
So it's not just some ruffianwho you know catches a win and

(54:49):
goes off on some high-flyingadventure.
It's so much more than anadventure.
So much more than an adventure.
In this book I plan to obviouslyI'm not a physicist, right, I'm
not.
I do do my research and I'vemade sure to try and to appease
the real hard sci-fi fans, tryto create both relatable and

(55:15):
true to I guess at least haveits foundations in current
physics theories A story that Ican expound upon and basically
bring through to a future that's700 years from now.
But I'm basically going to tryand find the crux at which

(55:37):
religion, the Big Bang Theorywhat else Multiverse and
simulation theory all meet, andthat's not an easy feat when
you're trying to plan from thebeginning.
But I already know how theentire series ends.

(56:00):
I know definitively there arecertain major events that are
basically hardwired into thestory.
How we get there.
I like to keep it a little bitmore fluid.
I like to keep the story trueto the characters.
So I keep a lot of it fluid andopen for changes, open for

(56:23):
interpretation, open forsomething works better.
Oh, this character wouldn'treally do that.
In this scenario he would dothis.
Well, where's that going totake me?
Where I could still get to themajor event.
And that's the way that I kindof write.
I like to ensure that I havedefinitive endpoints, definitive

(56:45):
major events, but what canhappen from chapter to chapter?
That changes constantly.
I've gone back, you know, whenI was writing the first book, I
went back multiple times andchanged different events to
basically foster what I feltwould work much better as the
story was progressing later onin the book to basically make it

(57:09):
all line up.
Like I said, there's a bunch oftimes where I've basically
woken up and had to writesomething down or jumped out of
the shower naked and ran over,you know, trying not to slip on
the bathroom floor to writesomething down on my phone
because I just had an epiphanyoh, this is perfect, that's.
I need to write this down so Idon't forget it.

(57:38):
Some of the themes of, like Isaid, like the authoritarian
government powers just theramifications of absolute power
or people who are following egoin the pursuit of power, and
that requires, like I said, apretty gruesome backstory, which
is why the main character,roman, has such a tough

(58:00):
upbringing, and that'sdefinitely something that I
think sets him apart in someways, because it's certainly not
, that's definitely a trope.
The idea of absolute power is atrope.
The idea of someone who grew upwithout his parents is is a
trope.
That's been used before, but inthe way that it happens for him

(58:25):
and how he basically copes withit and the path that his life
takes him on I mean, he ends upjoining a gang at like,
basically like age 16, and thatkind of morphs him into this
person like that, like Idescribed earlier, which is
someone who's got a talent forviolence, someone who is

(58:49):
talented in general anddefinitely intelligent, but
doesn't seem to have a purposein life, and it leaves him kind
of floating, like he's just kindof floating through life when
you meet him as an adult and youfind out why you know, as the
story progresses, you hear moreabout some of his characters

(59:10):
from his past you hear moreabout, you know why he went this
path and how he got there.
But I wanted to make sure that Imade it feel real, which is why
the story is so violent and so,in a way, heartbreaking, but
also uplifting a bit in terms ofwhat he ends up making of

(59:34):
himself, and you'll find moreand more of that as you see his
character build throughout thebook, because he has leadership
qualities that he's basicallyput on the back burner.
He has intelligence, whichbasically he's been drowning out
in liquor for as long as he canremember.

(59:56):
He has values that he wasraised with by his parents when
they were, you know, stillaround, and I wanted to really
bring that to life and show whatsuch a hard knock upbringing
can create as far as just ahuman being.

Speaker 3 (01:00:18):
Yeah, and you, you, you talk about how some of those
abilities that he has are alittle bit on hold later on as
we get further in.
But you see them early on, whenthere's a little bit of a time
jump about a year time jump andhis leadership is on display
right then.
And there I'll just say thisselfishly, I'm not, I'm not

(01:00:39):
gonna spoil anything for peoplehere um, so I'll just say, from
the moment where he loses a veryimportant item early on and
then gets that item back, Iwould love to see what happens
in that year span.
I was like man, what, what wenton in that location?
So selfishly, I just wanted, Ijust want to let you know.

Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
I want to know what happened there and, and maybe
that's something I can includein the uh, um, in the canon of
the, the comic book.
Yeah, as I, as I begin to bringthose to life, I did try and,
you know, leave some somefootnotes as to what happened
when uh, because I know exactlythe chapter you're talking about

(01:01:18):
I I kind of explained that whenhe's, you know, looking at the
guy and saying like, look, doyou see what you did to him?
You see what you did it?
Yep, you know what I'm talkingabout.
I I don't want to get too muchdeeper because I don't want to
give away any spoilers, but yeah, it's a rough upbringing with

(01:01:40):
very it's a lockdown kind ofscenario, but with little
oversight compared to what'srequired, for sure.

Speaker 3 (01:01:52):
And I knew that this was going to be a character that
we were drawn to very early on.
These are the type ofcharacters you know when we're
talking about these backstoriesand complicated characters that
are not just cut and dry.
It's a type of character wetalk to a lot of voice actors
about when we're doingconventions, and Roman certainly
has all the makings forsomebody that I know we're
really going to enjoy.

Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
Yeah, and he's got a great, great first name.
You know we love us our tribalchief.
So it's a great.
It's a great name, it's apowerful name and it's a it's a
powerful character.
And I want to know, nick, youknow, before we transition into
maybe some pop culture talk, uh,and kind of get a little bit

(01:02:33):
more casual, I definitely wouldlove to know, for those that are
possibly interested in readingthis, I'd love to know your
perspective on introducing theaudience in those first couple
chapters to this entire world.
I mean, when you're buildingsomething this vast I mean you
just mentioned already thatyou're in the middle of book two

(01:02:55):
We've got at least book sevenplanned Like this is such a
massive undertaking I would loveto know what is your approach
been when it comes to thebeginning of this book and how
you wanted the audience to belet in.
You also mentioned theparticular type of perspective,
the omission perspective as well, and keeping that in mind, so

(01:03:20):
what was your approach and whatis your approach to getting new
audiences into this story Againvery early on into the book?

Speaker 1 (01:03:38):
basically getting people invested in the idea of
this is just the very beginningand I don't plan on slowing down
anytime soon.
Like I said, this is book oneof seven the comic book I've.
I already have the next fiveissues of the comic book in
production.
Number two should be out thismonth.
I just sent the illustrator thescript for issue number three

(01:04:00):
and he was like over the moonwith the direction that I went
with it and he's like I can'twait to do this.
This is going to be awesome.
So he's really pumped aboutthat.
I don't plan on stopping atjust books, audio books and
comic books.
Like I said, I want to turnthis into an animated series at

(01:04:21):
some point, probably relativelysoon.
I want to start.
I've already begun makingintroductions or making inroads
into the film and video gameindustry.
One of the characters I can'tremember.
Did I give you guys the coverof the book that I gave you?
Did it have?

(01:04:41):
It was just a blue cover withthe guy looking toward the
mountain.

Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
Yeah, roman looking towards the mountain.
Yeah, Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:04:47):
So on the, on the limited edition cover and you
can see this on my websitethere's there's a character.
He's got a bald head and he'swearing a giant suit of armor.
You probably saw him on my, onthe backdrop that I had in the
uh, in the at my booth atcollective con.
That character his name isGeneral Dark Ferris Benson and

(01:05:09):
he is actually modeled after.
He is a spitting image actuallyof stunt actor Levon Panic, who
is a very good friend of mine.
He allowed me to use hislikeness for that character.
He just said, hey, when youturn this into a movie, you
better cast me as him.
And I said you got it, stay inshape.

(01:05:30):
But so, and you know, he'sbeginning to spread the word as
well.
You know everyone is, I've gota good network.
I feel like I've never I don'tthink I've ever used my
professional or my personalnetwork this much for anything
in my entire life and um, andit's because, like I said,

(01:05:51):
there's there's actual passionbehind it and I and really enjoy
it.
But as far as getting people onboard for the first book, it's
really just about setting thescene.
What are you going toexperience when you get into
this?
Well, a little bit ofeverything.
I, you know.
I I give you little snippets ofevery different part of these

(01:06:13):
characters lives.
It is is multi-narrative, soyou follow characters from all
different walks of life, sothere are multiple characters
that you may be able to, I guess, feel connected with.
You follow the freelancer, youfollow Roman.
You follow the antagonist,who's a politician.

(01:06:36):
You get to see all thepolitical turmoil that's brewing
.
You follow an intergalactic popstar.
She's touring from planet toplanet and you get introduced to
some pretty seedy elements ofthe underworld.
You follow a militia leader, ashe's basically leading a
militia.
You follow all sorts ofdifferent people and all of

(01:06:59):
their storylines intertwine intoone.
It's like if you took Game ofThrones, cyberpunk and the
Witcher series and you mash themall together, you'd have
Videlarium.
And, by the way, sci-fi isn'tthe only thing that I draw

(01:07:22):
inspiration from either.

Speaker 2 (01:07:23):
I mean one of my.

Speaker 1 (01:07:25):
There are certain things that I've always enjoyed
throughout my life.
For instance, did you guys everwatch the show Entourage?
It was a classic show.

Speaker 2 (01:07:34):
I never got into it.

Speaker 3 (01:07:35):
No, I didn't, but a friend of ours was very much
into it, but I never watched it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:39):
You know what that was, though that was more
because entourage was like a bighbo show right, yes, yeah, that
was phil.
I don't think we could affordhbo at that time, yeah that
might have been it.

Speaker 3 (01:07:49):
Yeah, before it was a streaming service.

Speaker 2 (01:07:51):
We all have the sopranos on our list of uh, we
do a series called late to theparty where we catch up on pop
culture stuff we missed.
So Entourage the Sopranos,there's a couple of those big
hitter HBO shows that we missedout on.

Speaker 1 (01:08:06):
Dude Sopranos was fantastic too.
My parents had an HBOsubscription and Entourage was
one of the first shows that me,my brother and my father all
watched together, and that wasthat was a great.
I loved the idea of a group ofguys who were friends, getting

(01:08:26):
together and just going throughit on their voyage to reaching
the top and the heartbreaks, thelosses, as well as the wins
everything everything that theyexperienced together.
And that is something that Ifeel like, as, as you begin to
progress through the book,you'll see small hints of things

(01:08:49):
like that in there.
You know, I say Game of Thronesbecause it is written
multi-narrative, so you do get afull.
There's more than one characterthat you get to follow to really
give you not just the accessingcharacter building but to give
you a full scope of the worldbuilding that went into creating
this, because you get to see itfrom different perspectives of

(01:09:13):
this city, which has everythingfrom those at know, those at the
tippity tuck, to those who arejust kind of slogging away in
the grind and, like I said,there's an element of kind of a
dream team that ends up meetinghaphazardly to get through this

(01:09:35):
ordeal that you will get tofollow intimately, and I think
there's a lot of, there's a,there's a lot that people can
relate to that, becauseeveryone's got their close crew
Right and this is your meeting.
Basically romance, um as hetries to figure out what's

(01:09:55):
happening to him, yeah, and Ithink the the thing that really
figure out what's happening tohim.

Speaker 2 (01:09:57):
Yeah, and I think the the thing that really stood out
to me too, like in addition towhat you just said about, like
all of those different elementsof Game of Thrones, cyberpunk.
It was funny you mentioned theWitcher Cause.
I was watching one of yourclips where you said, like Henry
Cavill would be your guy forRoman, which I thought, phil, I
thought that was really cool.
We're a big fan of his andthose are all such pop culture

(01:10:21):
relevant things, which, again,sci-fi really is.
So there's just so manyparallels that you can make that
make the story relatable andalso, I think, something that
people can easily dive into.
And as somebody, again, whodoes not normally read, I can
definitely say starting thisbook was not a chore and that's

(01:10:43):
a great thing for somebody whodoesn't read a book.
Phil, again, you've been ravingabout it, so I love to hear
that.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:10:51):
Yeah, and, like we also talked about, once again to
shout out just the narration byMichael.
That's so important when itcomes to an audiobook.
You know, I know I'm not alonewhere you can lose people if the
narration is not good.
So that's great that you alsomentioned earlier on that you

(01:11:12):
want to make sure that hecontinues.

Speaker 1 (01:11:13):
you know, as far as continuing to narrate the books
for you going forward as well,yeah, and I want to give a shout
out to Michael Neve as well,because he is just a phenomenal
talent.
I mean, the dude has a movietrailer voice when he needs it
and he does unique voices foreach individual character

(01:11:33):
without making it too cartoonyeach individual character
without making it too cartoonywhich I feel like can happen at
times when certain voice actorstry and do multiple different
characters he does it in a verycinematic way.
I feel like he adds voicemodulation.
He went back in post-productionand he added music and sound
effects and tones.
When it gets suspenseful, Imean it's, it is a production

(01:11:57):
and he did a phenomenal job.
So hats off to him.
It's literally like you'relistening to a movie.
So I'm glad you're enjoyingthat, because we put a lot of
hours into that, me and himespecially him and I thank him
dearly for that, and I willdefinitely be contracting him

(01:12:17):
for his services again once booktwo is ready and book three
through seven after that.
And then there was somethingelse that you mentioned I wanted
to bring up.
Oh, as far as you said I knowyou said like starting it wasn't
a chore wasn't a chore I'vebeen like overjoyed with, you

(01:12:41):
know, to see the reviews thathave come in online, whether
it's on Goodreads or on Amazonor on Audible, everyone seems to
be saying that this is it's afast read, even though it's not
a short book, which?
So?
So for those of you out therewho are kind of like worried,
like oh well, this is a longbook, it seems to read very fast

(01:13:02):
from the feedback that you knowfolks, reviewers have been
basically been giving.
As far as their feedback, andyou know what's also been
surprising, I've seen a lot offemales who have also said like
I've enjoyed, enjoyed this, likeI don't even like sci-fi.
I did a um, a Goodreadsgiveaway where I gave away like

(01:13:23):
a hundred plus eBooks onGoodreads, and a number of the
reviewers were female and theywere like I don't even like
sci-fi and I love this and that.
To me, that was very, verycomforting to hear, because one
of the things I've tried to dowhen I made this, I wanted to

(01:13:45):
make sure that it was relevantto the hard sci-fi crew, the
real sci-fi fans, which is why Igo in depth in the explanations
behind some of the technologiesand how we got here and the
history behind things.
But the story itself is verycharacter focused.
It's a very human story, whichI was hoping would be very

(01:14:10):
appealing to a much largeraudience and, based on the
reviews that have come back, Imean that seems to be what
people are saying.
So that is very comforting,very nice to hear.
I couldn't be happier with, youknow, the response that it's
gotten online, and I'm eternallygrateful for that.

(01:14:31):
I really am, because you putyour heart and soul into
something, and especiallysomething that's as much of an
investment as what I'm puttingin this for seven books at least
.
It's nice to hear that I'm atleast on the right track and I'm
not trying to toot my own horneither.

(01:14:52):
I'm just really grateful forthe feedback that I've gotten
online.

Speaker 2 (01:14:59):
Yeah, yeah.
And I definitely got to say,Nick, like it's one thing to get
the book right, To get the bookfrom you You're a cool guy, it
would have been a real bummer tohave you on and it suck.
You know what I mean.
So so we took it, we took achance.
But I will tell you this therewas something about the
presentation, again yourparticular vibe, and you gave us

(01:15:24):
a thick boy.
So Phil's doing the audiobook.
I might have to go that routetoo, because I think I might be
dyslexic.
I'm not 100% sure, but I mighthave a reading disorder.

Speaker 3 (01:15:36):
No, Eric is used to reading right to left for manga.

Speaker 2 (01:15:40):
Oh yeah, manga panels , yes, totally.

Speaker 3 (01:15:42):
So I think you need to give him a version of the
book that's right to left andhe'll get through it in a day,
it'll be done.

Speaker 2 (01:15:48):
No, I will tell you, I messed up reading the comic
because I was like none of thisis making sense.
That was on me.
The comic, for for sure, I hadto read a second time.
But reading up until chaptertwo, like, the reason I said it
wasn't a chore, is because,again, book reading not normally
my thing, and then on top ofthat, like it is.
That's why I asked you like whatyour approach was early on,

(01:16:11):
because it is overwhelming atfirst and like the prologue, as
any book would be, let alone abook creating a new world in
sci-fi.
But then, by the time I get tochapter two, I'm like, oh okay,
I'm in it, I'm in it, I'mlearning, I'm figuring it out,
and it just felt very seamlessand I thought that was really,

(01:16:32):
really interesting.
But, yeah, no, very glad thatI'm having a positive experience
, phil, you're having a positiveexperience.
And again, it's one of thosethings where, uh, it's the least
we could do, uh, to try toshout out the book and get new
audience members into it,because our audience is very pop
culture based.
But, like, we're not a bookpodcast, right?

(01:16:55):
So I think we can speak tothose people who are also timid
about jumping into somethinglike this and have them give it
a shot, because I think goingout of your comfort zone on this
, phil, uh, you.
So far for us it's been a win.

Speaker 3 (01:17:09):
Yeah, to speak on what you were talking about,
nick, as far as you've beengetting a lot of great feedback
from uh, from women who've beenreading it.
Good storytelling transcends.
Good storytelling does not havea gender.
Whoever enjoys it, as long asthey identify it as a good story
, then they will read it.
I will say also for those ofyou that don't normally, or if
you do, listen to audiobooks, inthe last two days between

(01:17:33):
Monday and today we're recordingthis on a Tuesday like I said,
I've gotten to chapter seven andstill also been listening to
other stuff that I listen to atwork.
Eric is a music guy.
When he's on downtime, I'm apodcast guy, so I listen to a
lot of podcasts outside of therealm of pop culture.
So it is definitely, like Ericsaid, definitely not a chore to

(01:17:55):
get through and we're very muchenjoying it on both ends.
That's so true, eric, because,like you said, man, it would
have been a bummer if we didn'thave anything.

Speaker 2 (01:18:06):
Man, I had those fingers crossed when I flipped
the page.

Speaker 3 (01:18:10):
And that's never happened with any of our guests.
To be clear, anybody who'swatching or listening.

Speaker 2 (01:18:16):
I know, nick, nick, you were saying you weren't
feeling great.
Uh, I would have.
I would have messaged you andbeen like we're actually
terminally we're actually notgood at all.
We can't have you on.
Oh, really quick.
This is a good sign.

Speaker 3 (01:18:27):
I didn't want to say, uh, like you promised your
friend, that role, you know, inthe live action film we also
discuss.
You know, I just started myvoice acting journey, so if that
animated story comes up, keepme in mind please.
Hey, all right.

Speaker 1 (01:18:41):
I got you Top of mind right here.
Awesome Top of mind.
Yeah, that would have beenrough if you guys had me on and
you were like so tell me aboutyour shitty book.

Speaker 3 (01:18:55):
Let's talk about so, dude, let's talk about it.
So, dude, let's talk about it.

Speaker 1 (01:19:01):
Well, I couldn't be happier that you guys are
enjoying it.
I mean, this is for the fans.
I mean, that's what it's allabout.
I mean, if you can createsomething that's enjoyable,
that's likable, that's relatable, can create something that's
enjoyable, that's likable,that's relatable.
I mean, I know the fandomcommunity, just this whole anime

(01:19:23):
, sci-fi community they can berough if you create something
that they are not a fan of andthat's respectable.
You know, if you hold people toa high standard, you typically
get high caliber products andyou know I was hoping that my

(01:19:44):
product was going to be wellreceived and so far it has been,
and the editorial reviewershave also been extremely kind.
It has been, and the editorialreviewers have also been
extremely kind.
I yeah, I don't, I don't wantto, I won't get too deep into
that, but I Kirkus gave me avery solid review, literary

(01:20:08):
Titan, reader's Favorite, thebook Commentary, a few others.
I mean it's it's, it's been,it's been a hell of a ride
getting to this point.
So I'm trying to balance, likeenjoying that with also
knuckling down and being like,ok, we're not even fucking near

(01:20:29):
done yet.
Like, you got to, you got toget, you got to get through
Stick the landing Now, yeah,exactly, you gotta get through.
Uh, stick the landing now.
Yeah, exactly, it's.
And you know it's funny, it's uh, I promise the community right
now, here and now, I will notpull a george rr martin and take
20 years to basically tell youI may not even finish the series

(01:20:50):
.
I will finish this series but Ido see I will say this, you
know, in props to him it doesget harder to write these as you
continue on, especially whenyou've built such a massive
world, when you've built so manyintricate storylines that you

(01:21:14):
need to I literally intricatestorylines that you need to I.
Literally, when I'm writing now, I have the first book open in
a PDF next to book two, so thatwhen I come across something
that I'm like, oh wait, was thatscar on the left side of his
shoulder or the right side ofhis shoulder, like I need to go
back through book one to doublecheck, trying to keep all of
these things in line.

Speaker 3 (01:21:36):
It's an undertaking, and so I have a great amount of
respect for those who have beenable to create long running
series, because it's not easyand it becomes not necessarily
harder to write but more arduousas you go along as you go along
, yeah, and I think another oneof the reasons why the feedback

(01:21:59):
and also the interactions youknow, when you go to conventions
, when we're talking about thatcommunity you know he's talking
about anime and sci-fispecifically, just the nerd
community in general they canseek out a fraud.
They can sense out when somebodyis not genuine about what
they're doing or they're notactually passionate about what
it is, they're not actuallypassionate about what that is
they're presenting.
They can sniff that out.
We can all sniff that out whenit comes to specific projects

(01:22:23):
and you know we'll come acrosshow many conventions that we've
been to where it seems like,whether it be vendor, artist,
even some, sometimes an author,and it sounds like it's like a
what's like an auctioneertalking to us, right, and we're
just walking by that person,we're not gonna talk to them

(01:22:44):
yeah, yeah, I think, uh, one ofthe worst pitches I got was nice
beard, and then he presented abook.

Speaker 2 (01:22:52):
Uh, it was a very religious book, so I should give
you an idea of what I walkedright by.
Thanks, buddy.

Speaker 3 (01:23:01):
I think I just got.
Can you read one time which?
The answer is no?

Speaker 2 (01:23:08):
But, nick, we got a couple of games to wrap up the
episode.
But before we do that, I knowjust some quick pop culture talk
and I know we dived a littlebit about it into it a little
bit earlier.
You mentioned that you've readDune, but you haven't been
jumping into recent sci-fi stuff.
I'm just curious have youwatched either of the recent

(01:23:30):
Dune movies and if so, I'd loveto hear your opinion about him
as a sci-fi kind of guy.

Speaker 1 (01:23:35):
Okay, I'd love to hear your opinion about him as a
sci-fi kind of guy.
Okay, so, so when?
When I say I haven't beendiving into the recent sci-fi
stuff, I meant more literarystuff.
As far as the the cinematicstuff, absolutely I go nuts, I,
I, I stay up to date justbecause I enjoy it.
I'm a movie buff, so I 100%have seen both Dunes.

(01:23:57):
I love what Dennis Villanovahas done.
I really think he brought it tolife.
I don't know if you guys didyou ever watch like that campy
old school, like 80s version ofDune that?

Speaker 2 (01:24:11):
came out?
No, all we know is there's apop.

Speaker 1 (01:24:14):
Oh dude, it's fucking hilarious.
But I mean props to them.
They were trying to work withwhat they had back in the day.
As far as like CGI and all thatstuff, I loved the Dunes.
I love the new Dunes.
I will say this I'm somewhatbiased because I was such a Dune
fan because of the books priorto like the real, the new movies

(01:24:39):
coming out, and so I love them.
I thought just their portrayalof like the sandworms and riding
the sandworms, that was frigginawesome.
Their use of the, the water oflife, the, the blue liquid that
they drank and that he drinks,that was super interesting.
The way that he depicted thatin the movies and what they were

(01:25:03):
going through, which is alittle bit more focused on the,
the Bene Gesserit order, whichit's it's an interesting take on

(01:25:23):
the series and it's been fun,but like their way of diving
into what happens when you takethat elixir very, very
interesting.
So I love it.
I've wanted to see Paul write afucking sandworm for since I was
a teenager, so to be able tosee that, you know, on the big

(01:25:45):
screen.
I saw both of them in theatersand on, you know, on HBO after
that, but why?
What do you guys think about it.
No, it's all good.
Yeah, yeah, we um we, so Iclarify I did not like dune part
one.

Speaker 2 (01:26:06):
When I saw it in theaters, I and I don't know
that didn't like is the word.
I was just a little let down.
I was like, oh okay, this iscool.
So I wasn't even part twowasn't even on my radar, and my
wife and my son wanted to watchit.
Uh, they were interested, or mywife was interested.
So we tagged along and I walkedout of it, blown away.

(01:26:27):
Blown away to the point where Ihad to tell everyone hey, I
think I might like the first onemore now, after walking out of
part two, and we actually uh,this is how Phil watched it we
did an all day dune watch party,so I had people come over to
watch dune part one.
I did re, re, uh, watch it.

(01:26:49):
And then I understood I'm like,okay, this movie, this movie
slaps.
And then we watched dune parttwo in theaters and it was such
an amazing experience and Iwalked out the second time being
like, yeah, this is a, this isa five out of five film and it's
, uh, it's one of my favoritefilms of all time.

Speaker 1 (01:27:06):
Honestly, I, I love that movie so much it was
incredibly well done, I think inmy opinion and and um, I love.
I also personally loved all thememes that came out after its
release.
Especially Doom Part 2.
With the memes that were likePaul does anything, or like Paul

(01:27:30):
Atreides farts.
And then it's what's his name?
It's the Lisa Nogai.
It's so good.

Speaker 2 (01:27:36):
And he was fantastic.
Lisa Nagy yes, so good, and hewas fantastic in it too.
Javier Bardem he was so good.
A phenomenal actor, absolutelyphenomenal.
The cast was extraordinary, thedirection was extraordinary.
The fact that he didn't getBest Director a nomination at
the Oscars was actually a crime.

Speaker 3 (01:27:55):
Oh, that's insanity, yeah, insanity Dune in general,
that's going to be a $4 billionfranchise, or is so, I don't
know he didn't get nominatedeither time for part one or part
two, I believe.

Speaker 2 (01:28:08):
So it's again.
I don't understand.
Maybe he has to wait forMessiah?
I don't know.
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:28:14):
Dune in general.
He's waiting for the Lisa Nottguy.

Speaker 2 (01:28:16):
Yeah that's right, that's it yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:28:18):
Dune in general was kind of like just the forgotten
child during the Oscar season.
It seems like both the firsttime around and this time around
, which is pretty crazy.
I always have to ask thisquestion, eric knows, whenever
we have Star Wars fans on,because I always like to hear
what your opinion is on thecurrent state of the franchise.

(01:28:39):
This is coming from somebodywhose favorite Star Wars movie
is Rogue One, so I want to know,like what do you think about
where we're at now?
You know, do you have anySkywalker fatigue?
Do you still keep up with theTV shows?
Where's your fandom at for StarWars now, in 2025?
I'm at for Star Wars now in2025.

Speaker 1 (01:28:56):
So I I've seen all except the final episode of the
film.
I just haven't had the time yetand I and I and that is
shameful, I know I need to goahead and get on that, but you
don't actually respectfully, youdon't have to.

Speaker 2 (01:29:16):
You could just.
You could just stay in therealm, in the reality of oh, the
last jedi was kind of cool, Iguess, and then just just just
end it.

Speaker 1 (01:29:25):
It's okay look here, here's what I'll say.
I I think, uh man, I don't want, I want, I don't want to go
trashing anyone, but I feel likesince Disney took over it's
just been a different feel, andpart of me recognizes that a lot

(01:29:52):
of it is nostalgic too.
I told you earlier, likeliterally one of the first
sci-fi bonding moments I hadwith my father was like watching
the original trilogy on VHSwith him.
And then, you know, the prequelscame out and not terrible, I
will say like, given the stateof their you knowgi and the

(01:30:16):
different effects they had andthings like that, I felt like
they, they did what they couldand I felt I, I felt okay, like
I felt relatively comfortablewith the storyline.
There are some awkward pointsand some weird you know parts
that I feel like could have beeneither elaborated on more or

(01:30:38):
done a little better, but evenstill I was okay with it.
Rogue One I'll say it wasenjoyable, I enjoyed the
experience and then I just Ineed to finish the series is
what I need to do to be able togive you a real feel of it.

(01:31:00):
But some of the other stuffthat's come out, I just I don't
know.
I feel like maybe that's whatcomes with a ginormous
corporation taking on theconcept of like fighting the
power will turn into.

(01:31:20):
Maybe that's it, maybe puttingthem in charge wasn't the best
idea.

Speaker 2 (01:31:28):
They're literally just doing.

Speaker 1 (01:31:29):
If the Empire won Somehow, it's kind of and I
don't know, I don't know, thatcould be a me thing.
Wow, it's kind of I don't and Idon't know and I don't know,
maybe and maybe that's and thatcould be a, that could be a me
thing.
That could be like uh, oh,that's in the back of my head,
so that's biasing my experience,but I know that there have been
some other fans and some otherpeople out there who have not

(01:31:51):
been particularly pleased withwith the uh, with the outcome.
But I mean, despite that, Imean it's still getting a lot of
views.
I'm sure I mean it's Disney,they've got more reach than
fucking anyone.

Speaker 3 (01:32:07):
I just watched a hour-long YouTube recap of the
most recent trilogy, just kindof going back and again eric
revisiting the force awakens,and how much potential we had.
We had three really great three, the potential for three really

(01:32:28):
great protagonists and over thecourse of the next two movies
you like see them on screentogether for like a half hour
maybe, and and that's whenthey're like, strongest is when
they're together.
They have excellent chemistry.
You can tell they actually likeeach other too, like in real
life, and it's a it's a crimeit's a bummer actual.

Speaker 2 (01:32:48):
It's an actual crime against humanity, because I I
had to tell, uh, my brother, whodidn't really believe it, I
think, I think I am firmly onthe train that the Force Awakens
is my favorite and I understandthat that's not a popular
opinion, nor right Like I canobjectively say it's not.

Speaker 1 (01:33:06):
But when I watched it the magic I felt.

Speaker 2 (01:33:09):
Disney did do it.
They did accomplish it with theForce Awakens for me, Finn Poe
Rey, and then of course, youhave adam driver as kylo ren,
like it was all amazing.
And then the last jedi happenedand I just really it just comes
down to the fact that theydidn't have a direction, they

(01:33:31):
didn't have a consistentdirector, who was the director
from the second he like was sodetermined to just undo
everything that was done.
Yeah, like he did everything JJAbrams did.
Then they brought back JJ forthe final movie and somehow
Palpatine returned.
So you know, it's just, it iswhat it is.
But I will say that overall,outside of the first season of

(01:33:51):
the Mandalorian and for me, theForce Awakens a lot of people
feel exactly the way that you do, nick, and when Phil asked that
question, all I hear is whendid your love for Star Wars die?
That's all I hear when he askedthat question, because everybody
is right there in your boat,even though you haven't consumed

(01:34:13):
as much of the new Star Warscontent.
It's the same narrative rightnow, it's just it's very much a
dead franchise for the OG fans,though, again, it is still very
popular in pop culture and justin general.

Speaker 1 (01:34:27):
Right, and I will say I did enjoy the Mandalorian, I
did enjoy that.
So that was I mean.
You can't go wrong with PedroPascal.
Put that dude in anything hecrushes.

Speaker 3 (01:34:38):
Mandalorian movie coming out next year Mandalorian
and Groot.
Yeah, there you go, I'll bethere, yeah, I'll watch it.

Speaker 1 (01:34:49):
You've successfully given me homework.
I'll be watching the episodesI've missed since I don't know,
since I've been so bogged downrecently with trying to get this
thing across the finish lineand directing the next episodes
of the comic and everything elseI just I need to catch up, yeah
.

Speaker 2 (01:35:08):
I'm sure that's a whole thing in itself.
So it's cool to see that you'restill catching up with a lot of
those like recent things goingon and you're not missing out on
them, which is nice.
So if you're missing star Wars,star Wars is not the hot sci-fi
thing anymore, which is isunfortunate.
It's almost kind of crazy tosay, but it just isn't.

Speaker 1 (01:35:27):
Well, what else?
What else have you guys seenthat you guys have like, really
liked, like?

Speaker 3 (01:35:32):
recently, recently?
What did we watch last year?

Speaker 2 (01:35:35):
That was really good, there was a lot last year,
right?
Yeah, I'm trying to see.

Speaker 3 (01:35:39):
There's this narrative out there.
You know people are like, well,we want to go to the movies and
nothing's coming out.
But stuff's coming out, youjust got to look for it.
And also, people aren'tnecessarily empowered to go to
the movies because that moviewill be on streaming within the
next month or so.

Speaker 1 (01:35:56):
Mickey 17,.
Right, mickey movies, becausethat movie will be on streaming
within like the next month or so.
Mickey 17 mickey 17 is one thatjust came out bong joon-ho, one
that we we enjoyed.

Speaker 3 (01:36:03):
Um, that one's definitely sci-fi, did we watch?
Uh, I'm looking through thislist here, uh for well for me.

Speaker 2 (01:36:08):
So I saw alien romulus in theaters and I very
much enjoyed it.
I'm not I was never an alienguy but, but I had watched the
original Alien and I've seenAlien vs Predator for some
reason, but Alien Romulus was areally nice surprise.
I think that was probably oneof the best sci-fi movies that I

(01:36:29):
had seen last year and, yeah,probably one of the best or one
of the biggest that I had seen.
That stood out to me.

Speaker 3 (01:36:38):
I would say category would you put.
It's what's inside air, becauseit's not necessarily sci-fi,
but it does have like sci-fielements.
But it's also more of athriller, um, and that's one of
my favorite movies from lastyear, but it's not science
fiction science fiction yeah,it's not sci-fi in the sense of
valerian, but it is sci-fi, um,and that one's on Netflix and
that's one of my favorite moviesfrom last year.

Speaker 2 (01:36:58):
You know what, Nick?
This will be a good questionfor you, because this is going
to actually fall into our game alittle bit.
How would you define sci-fiwhen people say science fiction
like, how would you if you wereto summarize it, what is sci-fi
to you If somebody was to say Ilike sci-fi?

(01:37:20):
What is your brain calculateand process?

Speaker 1 (01:37:24):
that as being like.

Speaker 2 (01:37:25):
As far as the medium, I would say I would boil it
down some people will say like,oh, if it's not in space, it's
not sci-fi, right?
Or if right, yeah, yeah and Idisagree with that.

Speaker 1 (01:37:35):
I, I would say I disagree with that.
I'd say science fiction is adepiction of the future and its
ramifications, whatever that maybe, and I and that could be,
and you know what's weird is youknow that doesn't necessarily
have to be our future.

(01:37:57):
You could, I mean I've, I've, Imean, what was it?
I'm trying to think ofsomething to explain that Even
the Terminator took place inlike the 80s, but it followed,
like, what would happen if thisparticular, in this particular
timeline you know we're allplaying to the apes If, in this

(01:38:18):
particular timeline, you know,the technology for AI went in
this direction, what wouldhappen?
And then you know they get intothe time travel thing.
I mean, it's just, it'sdepiction of humanity's
evolution in an ever-evolvingtechnological world and the
ramifications of such a world.

(01:38:41):
And that leaves sci-fi open fora much larger, much more broad
interpretation, which you know,I think is the right way to look
at it.
I mean, did you guys ever watchBlack Mirror or anything like
that?

Speaker 3 (01:39:00):
Yeah, I haven't watched it in a while, but I've
watched the first couple seasons, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:39:07):
Yeah, so I liked those.
For a while, every bigstreaming service was trying to
put out something similar tothat, like Netflix had Black
Mirror, amazon Prime had PhilipK Dick's I Dream of Electric
Sheep, and then Netflix came outwith Love, death and Robots and

(01:39:30):
a few of those other ones, andthey were all anthologies so it
wasn't in any necessary order oranything like that, but they
were separate stories, each anepisode dedicated to a specific
thing.
I remember I can't remember.
I think it was either blackmirror or I dream of electric
sheep, but there was one whereit was just where social media
became so absolutely crazy thatyour like social credit score

(01:39:55):
was based on your social media.

Speaker 3 (01:39:57):
That was the one with bryce dallas howard, I believe
yes, yes and that was that wasdystopian, and it's a fact.

Speaker 1 (01:40:05):
I mean, anywhere where you're exploring a
dystopia is could probably fallunder sci-fi in some form or
fashion, as long as you're nottalking about a dystopia in like
medieval times.
Yeah right, yeah, I mean, it'swhat?
What is it they say?
Every utopia is really adystopia.

Speaker 2 (01:40:26):
Yeah, that's it.

Speaker 1 (01:40:27):
There's always a dark underbelly to perfection it's,
it's, it's it, just it doesn'texist.
You know, humans are such animperfect species and we have
flaws and those flaws areingrained in our being and we
can either learn to evolve withthem or we can perish.
And I think if you're exploringanything in that realm, it

(01:40:51):
could be considered sci-fi.
So I love all that stuff, Ilove any type of philosophical
exploration and I always findthat and you'll certainly find
this as a theme in my book invidalarium is like balance is.
It is the ultimate savior ofsorts, it is what ensures that

(01:41:18):
we maintain along along whateverpath it is that we are
following.
You know, because we we can'ttell the future, we can only try
and predict it, we can foreseeit the best we can, but, um, as
far as, yeah, I don't quite knowwhere I'm going with this.

Speaker 2 (01:41:40):
No, that was good.

Speaker 1 (01:41:41):
Balance is definitely a huge aspect which you'll
notice in my book and I actuallyone of the Phil.
Have you come across the sacredorder yet?
I?

Speaker 3 (01:41:52):
don't believe so.
Of equilibrium no, I don'tbelieve so.

Speaker 1 (01:41:56):
Okay, well, basically it is when I told you I had to
create a religion for thecenturies out future.
It's called the Sacred Order ofEquilibrium and it's all about
the concept of, basically,cosmic balance, and that is a
huge theme, probably one of themajor crux type themes of the

(01:42:21):
book that I bring into or Ideliver to the reader through
the book.
And don't worry, I'm not tryingto get you to join my cult or
anything, I just want you toenjoy the fucking book we're
like I'm in.
But that, I think, is part ofthe answer and it comes down to

(01:42:45):
finding the balance between usand whatever it is that we're
dealing with.

Speaker 2 (01:42:51):
Yeah, no, that's great and I think that helps
because so I'm looking at Letterfilm, looking at letterboxes,
science fiction films.
So before we get into our firstgame, which will be the debate
game, if you want to also pullthat up, a couple of movies we
saw in the last like year or two.
The wild robot was a bigscience fiction film Godzilla

(01:43:13):
minus one See Godzilla, I don'tknow like that that kind of
people would say science fiction.
I never would think of it, butI I can see, now that you've
explained a little bit, I cansee how that fits um everything,
everywhere, all at once yeahone of my favorites movie we saw
this year called companion.
Uh, definitely fits that bill.
Companion was really, reallygood.

(01:43:34):
Uh, it's what's inside thatPhil mentioned, and those are
probably the biggest ones thatwe liked.

Speaker 1 (01:43:42):
But I will tell you in the past am I missing?

Speaker 2 (01:43:45):
Well, I mean interstellar.
Oh well, we watchedinterstellar for the first time
at the beginning of last yearand then we saw it in the.
Imax before the end of the year, which was crazy.
Yeah, top tier film, so good sogood.

Speaker 1 (01:44:04):
Who directed that again?
Was that Nolan?
That's what I thought.
It was, just his scene with theblack hole that was freaking
awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:44:16):
It's crazy, it is absolutely insane.

Speaker 3 (01:44:18):
I can't believe it took us so long to to watch.
I don't know why we just neverhad gotten to it up until, yeah,
last year, but now it's one ofmy favorites.
It's a great watch.

Speaker 2 (01:44:27):
It's a great, great watch, um, yeah, so, with that
being said, let's, let'stransition into some game time,
and these will be pretty quick.
They're nothing too too long.
The first thing we're going todo is a sci-fi debate, so, uh,
this is where friends are lost,enemies are made.
This is a good opportunity touh to jump into some
conversation.
So, phil, if you want to move tothe next one?

(01:44:48):
Uh, the debate rules are simple.
Each of you guys are going tohave 60 seconds to state your
argument.
Uh, you do have to make adebate even if you disagree with
it, so getting first choicehere would really help.
Uh, don't interject during theopposing debate, and then the
winner just has ultimatebragging rights.
So, with that being said, we'regoing to jump into our first

(01:45:10):
prompt.
This is going to be five rounds, and our first prompt is which
is the superior sci-fiexperience for the audience?
Is it film and tv or is itvideo games?
The first choice actually goesto the person who's published a
book, and because I don'tbelieve phil has published a

(01:45:31):
book, nick, I believe that meansyou get your choice of which
one you want to argue for.
Oh, Again.
Phil, there was no way I couldknow.

Speaker 1 (01:45:43):
Okay, I'm going to go video game.

Speaker 2 (01:45:46):
Video game.
Okay, that's literally Phil'sfavorite saying Video games are
the better experience.
I'm so excited for this.
So, nick, you have just about60 seconds, so go ahead and
rattle off.
Why is video games, why arevideo games, the superior
experience for audiences?

Speaker 1 (01:46:07):
Okay.
So when it relates to sci-fi, Ithink one of the big things that
you get with video games isespecially video games now is
the opportunity to make choices,and since your choices are what
end up basically creating thefuture that you want to happen

(01:46:33):
or that you hope to happen Imean there's literal consequence
involved.
There's the experience ofactually controlling the
character.
There's the experience of beingthere with the character
through every step of the way,whether it's through each battle
, whether it's through adialogue skirmish that you're

(01:46:56):
going through, where youactually get to make the choice
yourself, you get to own it.
I feel like that ties intosci-fi in a massive way, because
it is our decisions, literally,that create the future that
we're striving towards or,unfortunately, at times, the

(01:47:17):
future that we're not strivingtowards.
So I think there's investmentin that outcome that you don't
necessarily get when you'rewatching it and film and TV
which I still love, by the way Ilove being taken for a ride,
but I feel like when you've gotcontrol of the ride, at least
some autonomy, I feel like itadds an extra layer of

(01:47:41):
investment into whateveruniverse that you're delving
into, and I think that's fuckingawesome.

Speaker 2 (01:47:49):
All right, and Phil don't pay attention to the time.
I think that was a 30-seconddelay.
What do you mean?
You know what?
He had a first time guest round, one bonus ability.

Speaker 1 (01:48:03):
All right, cut me off next time.

Speaker 2 (01:48:04):
That's my.
I don't make.
I don't make the rules, I justfollow them.
You do make the rules.
Phil, you have 60 seconds andplease keep it tight.

Speaker 3 (01:48:19):
Okay, Let us know why you think film and TV is a
superior experience.
For film and TV, especially nowfor people.
You know, if you're not a gamer, you can trust the writers and
the developers of that show orthat movie to take you on a
journey in which you actuallywhere you will be fulfilled and

(01:48:41):
where god, I don't even believethis where you will be, where
you'll, you'll come out at theend and you'll be happy with the
experience that was presentedto you.
You just sit back, you relax,you can look at your phone, do
whatever it is that you do, Iguess, when you're watching TV
and films, things you can't dowhen you're playing a video game

(01:49:02):
.
So yeah, film and watch a movie, watch a TV show and just sit
there for the ride.
I guess I don't even know much.
I don't care how much time thatwas With time to spare.

Speaker 2 (01:49:20):
That is you know what .
I think we're going to givethat one to Nick, I think.

Speaker 3 (01:49:24):
Nick's going to go up 1-0.

Speaker 1 (01:49:26):
Yep, yep yep Great, I feel bad because I feel like
you were on my side the wholetime.

Speaker 2 (01:49:31):
Phil, phil's favorite thing is to tell people video
games is like the beststorytelling medium I love how
you said, you can just trust thewriters.

Speaker 1 (01:49:41):
A little bit of trust will kill you, if you like.

Speaker 3 (01:49:45):
That trust has bitten us quite a few times.
We won't name any specificseries, but they've done us
wrong, they know.

Speaker 2 (01:49:54):
All right, round two For round two, guys, which is
more important?
For a good story, characterdevelopment or world building?
The first choice goes to thewinner of the last round.
So, nick, you get a shot ateither argument.
Both are important, but if youhad to pick one to argue for

(01:50:15):
over the other, which would itbe?

Speaker 1 (01:50:17):
specifically for a sci-fi story All right, you got
to cut me off If I hit my timelimit this time you guys get a
timer on the screen here.

Speaker 2 (01:50:25):
We do.
The feedback has been received.

Speaker 1 (01:50:29):
I'm going to go with Ooh, that's a tough, that's a
tough fucking choice.
I'm going to go with characterdevelopment for this one.

Speaker 2 (01:50:40):
All right, nick, you've got 60 seconds.
Tell us why characterdevelopment is the most
important thing for a good story.

Speaker 1 (01:50:48):
Well, typically, who is reading, watching, playing,
whatever your story, it's aperson and character development
is an opportunity for you toactually present the human
elements and the qualities ofyour character that are
relatable and can basicallyingratiate readers into your

(01:51:14):
immersive environment.
You know, world building isimmensely important, but
character development is whatbasically brings your reader
into the scenario and attachesyour reader to that story.

Speaker 2 (01:51:29):
All right Time to spare Phil world building.
Why is that the most importantthing?

Speaker 3 (01:51:39):
world building.
Why is that the most importantthing?
I think a really good world canmake up for a pretty, even
sometimes subpar, characters.
The the examples that I'll useis the assassin's creed games,
as well as far cry.
There hasn't really been areally really good far cry
character in in quite some time.
However, the world I'll use FarCry 4 as an example the world

(01:52:00):
like the of thispost-apocalyptic cult, while the
main characters are thevillains, are interesting, but
it's also really fun to kind ofexplore what's going on, how
this specific area of thecountry is reacting to this cult
.
In Assassin's Creed, again,we've had a couple games.
I mean, they put out a gameevery single year.
Some of the characters are man.
They're okay.

(01:52:20):
But exploring Egypt, exploringthe streets of London, exploring
these on a pirate ship like aBlack Flag all that stuff makes
up for characters that sometimesmaybe aren't as interesting,
because you're just enjoyingbeing out there and being an
assassin or being a rebel orsomething along those lines,
because you're just enjoyingbeing out there and being an
assassin or being a rebel orsomething along those lines, all

(01:52:40):
right, with time to spare.

Speaker 2 (01:52:41):
Those are both great arguments.

Speaker 1 (01:52:46):
I'm going to give the edge to Phil because he got to
bring up video games.
He literally came with abibliography and I'll give you
that one.

Speaker 3 (01:52:54):
I couldn't tell you what Far Cry 5 is about, but I
know it was pretty you're not.

Speaker 2 (01:53:01):
Uh, you're not wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:53:03):
Well, all right if you read vidalarium, you get
both character development andworld building.
That's right exactly that.

Speaker 3 (01:53:09):
That's the plug we brought it all back around got
it.

Speaker 2 (01:53:13):
All right, let's go ahead and jump into our next one
, round three.
Which trope is more effectivethe use of a multiverse or time
travel?
For this one first choice goesto the person who is not
currently hosting a podcast I dobelieve that is nick unless you
have a podcast that I don'tknow about, uh, which would be

(01:53:34):
unfortunate.
But yeah, yeah, you get firstchoice here.

Speaker 1 (01:53:38):
All right, I'm going multiverse.

Speaker 2 (01:53:41):
All right, Phil is going to get time travel.
Nick, tell us why multiverse isthe more effective trope in
sci-fi.

Speaker 1 (01:53:50):
I think it's way more interesting, I think it leaves
way more open to interpretation,I think it leaves a lot more
storytelling options.
I think time travel has beenoverused and I think it kind of
creates a moot point, sinceanytime you do time travel, so

(01:54:12):
to speak, in terms of like realphysics, you you technically
create a separate timelineanyway, which would not affect
the original timeline, so itbecomes a whole kind of moot
point, whereas multiverse itopens up the possibility for all
types of unique interactions,unique types of travel, types of

(01:54:34):
universes that one couldn'teven fathom, and some that are
even so similar to ours, thatonly you know.
You woke up one morning and yousneezed or didn't sneeze, and
that's the only difference inthe universe.
And I think there's a lot moreto be explored in multiverse
than there is with time travel.

Speaker 2 (01:54:56):
All right, there we go.
And you saw, Phil, I put alittle thing on the screen.

Speaker 3 (01:55:00):
I saw.

Speaker 2 (01:55:01):
I was trying to try new features out here Again,
real-life, lifetime feedback,live feedback.
Phil, you have time travel, goahead and make your argument, 60
seconds starting now.

Speaker 3 (01:55:13):
Yeah, so I can really only kind of compare it as far
as what we've seen recently whenit comes to multiverse stuff.
That hasn't really worked verywell, and obviously we're
talking about whoa we're talkingabout.

Speaker 2 (01:55:31):
You got a 10 second uh runoff.

Speaker 3 (01:55:33):
Okay, we're talking we're talking about, like the
marvel movies, where it's beenused as a little bit of as a
crutch right.
Um, now, as far as time travel,we've seen that done very, very
well kind of time and timeagain, you know it is used a lot
.
Uh, obviously, back to thefuture, uh, tenant is one, even
interstellar, I think, can be atime travel movie.
A hot tub time machine one ofthe best time travel movies of

(01:55:55):
all time.
Uh, palm springs, another oneof my favorites.
So I think time travel is moreeffective because I think we've
gotten that down a little bitmore as far as like a tighter
storytelling method, whilemultiverse, I think, does give
us a lot of opportunities tobring more stories into it.
I think because now it's, it'sstill because of what the

(01:56:16):
superheroes have done with it.
It's so convoluted, I think,because time travel, we have the
formula down and it works.

Speaker 2 (01:56:24):
All right, this, this might be our hardest decision
yet.
Um, I think I think, phil, youhave a really strong argument,
but I think Nick is right thatmultiverse isn't quite at the
exhaustion point, that timetravel is.
So, nick, I'm going to give youround three, but slightly.
It's a slight edge.
I respect that, the 2-1 leadhere.

Speaker 1 (01:56:49):
Don't let one bad egg ruin the batch.
That's right, the superheromultiverse.

Speaker 3 (01:56:54):
Everything everywhere all at once is a great
multiverse movie and Spider-Manacross Spider-Verse.
You know they've been, they'vedone that really well so come on
, what about?

Speaker 1 (01:57:02):
what about Rick and Morty?

Speaker 2 (01:57:05):
Rick and Morty staying strong for sure.

Speaker 3 (01:57:08):
Yeah, gotta love it.

Speaker 2 (01:57:09):
Gotta love it.
All right, round four.
Which of these opinions arestronger?
Wrong way, phil.
Round four.
There we go.
Sci-fi and fantasy are verysimilar, or fantasy and sci-fi
are very different.
So the first choice goes to thewinner of the last round, nick,

(01:57:32):
that is you.
Which one would you like toargue is stronger, or right?
Uh, sci-fi and fantasy aresimilar or different um, I'm
gonna go, I'm gonna go.
It can be tough.
This is.
This is tough because this wasinspired by the debates that

(01:57:54):
people have.
Is star Wars a sci-fi film?
Obviously yes, but the use ofthe force is so fantasy like
that.
People argue that sometimes thebig other, the other big one is
Lord of the Rings, right?
So uh again, either one.
They're both arguably unpopularopinions, depending on what
side of the coin you're on.

Speaker 1 (01:58:15):
Once again, I feel like there's depending on what
side of the coin you're on Onceagain.
I feel like there's a balancethat is not achieved in this
question.
Very much, I'll go with.
Sci-fi and fantasy aredifferent.

Speaker 2 (01:58:25):
Okay, phil, you're going to go for similar and Nick
, you get first crack at it 60seconds, go ahead and make your
argument.

Speaker 1 (01:58:34):
All right.
So, whereas I love both sci-fiand fantasy, I feel like fantasy
uses the concept of magic,which is the ability to explain
or basically present a conceptwithout explaining it by just
saying it's magic, whereassci-fi takes the leap and tries

(01:58:57):
to ground it in actualscientific discovery.
Even oftentimes, if it's softsci-fi, there's grounding in
some sort of extrapolation ofreal life concepts.
Fantasy can fill a lot of gapsby basically just saying, oh,

(01:59:20):
there's a magical thing thatdoes this, there's, you know
this foretelling, you knowforeshadowing scripture that
says this is going to happen andthat explains the entire, you
know story arc of what they'regoing for, whereas you actually
have to dive in deep and create.

(01:59:47):
You asked me to do it.
I'm going to do it.
I appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:59:51):
All right, nick was going in.
So, phil, you got a lot ofground to cover 60 seconds.
Why are they similar?

Speaker 3 (01:59:59):
I think they're very similar because so, first off,
the game I'm playing right nowit's called Split Fiction and
it's incredible and the maincharacters one is a fantasy
writer, one is a sci-fi writerand throughout this story you're
finding how very, very similarthey are in terms of where they
draw inspiration from, how very,very similar they are in terms
of where they draw inspirationfrom.
And, you know, one of the mostpopular films of all time is a

(02:00:21):
sci-fi fantasy film.
It's not my favorite, it's noteven something I particularly
enjoy, but it's called Avatarand it's made like $10 billion
and I think it's a good mixtureof both of those films.
However, one movie that is oneof my favorites of all time also
, I think, sci-fi fantasy it'scalled Pacific Rim and it is a

(02:00:42):
masterpiece and it's got a lotof sci-fi in it and it's got a
lot of really, really coolfantasy looking monsters called
Kaiju and that movie rips.
So I think sci-fi and fantasyare very similar and they live
together in quite a nice harmony.

Speaker 2 (02:00:55):
All right, a little bit of time to spare.
Phil Phil came with theexamples again in that one See
that's what I'm saying, I'mtelling you it feels like you
keep prepared.
He did not get these in advance.
I must, I must, clarify.
Okay, I think we're tied up totwo going into round five.
I love that.
This is a working in your favor, phil going into round five uh

(02:01:19):
love that.

Speaker 3 (02:01:19):
This is uh working in your favor, phil.
Usually it's a blowout, so I'musually down at this point.

Speaker 1 (02:01:21):
What was the quote I was trying?
Is it any any um?
What is it any?
Suitable technology isindistinguishable from magic.
I forget who said that that wasa prolific sci-fi writer.
Who said that I, I, what.
I can't remember if it wasasimov or not, but that was.
That was literally the one quotethat was like maybe I should

(02:01:42):
arthur clark, arthur clark thankyou, it was arthur clark and,
uh, arthur c clark.
2001, space odyssey and allsubsequent.
But, um, yeah, no, it's true,it's true, they do live close
together and I do agree withthat.
And then there are certainliberties that a lot of fantasy

(02:02:07):
authors will take that willdivert massively from that, but
I feel like there is some very,a pretty broad common ground
between fantasy and sci-fi.

Speaker 2 (02:02:20):
Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (02:02:22):
Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (02:02:23):
All right Round five guys.
Last question in this which ismore important for a film?
Is it the visual effects or ascore and the soundtrack?
So for sci-fi, those are twobig, important things.
The first choice here goes toliterally anyone other than Phil
and considering that I am notplaying, I am hosting Nick, I

(02:02:45):
believe that is you.
You get first choice here.
Which one do you think is moreimportant for a sci-fi film?

Speaker 1 (02:02:54):
I'm going to go with God with my music history.
I'd love to say soundtrack, butI'm going.
Visual effects.

Speaker 2 (02:03:01):
All right, you're going visual effects, Phil.
You're going score soundtrack.
Nick, you got 60 seconds.
Why is visual effects yourchoice here?

Speaker 1 (02:03:11):
I come with my own bibliography this time.
Let's look at the differencebetween the original Dune movie
back in the 80s and the new onethat just came out Massively
different and in terms of thevisual effects that are
available today versus what werewhat was available back then.
And the one that was made backthen was an absolute flop, which

(02:03:34):
is a combination of a lot ofthings.
They tried to mash two movies,what should have been two movies
, into one, but the visualeffects were campy, they were
rough, they didn't make a wholelot of sense, whereas today
sci-fi is hot now as a genre ingeneral because of what we're
able to do with the visualeffects.

(02:03:56):
We're able to make these grandfutures come to life, and I feel
like that is basically what'sfostering this, basically height
of sci-fi that we're seeingcome out now.

Speaker 2 (02:04:10):
All right, very good, right on time, and a great
argument came with examples.
Phil See, that's the thing.
He's a quick learner.
I'm with examples, phil See,that's the thing.

Speaker 1 (02:04:21):
He's a quick learner.

Speaker 2 (02:04:21):
I'm on you, phil, he's got you.
So, phil, you have 60 seconds.
Go ahead and state your finalargument.

Speaker 3 (02:04:28):
So, for my example, what I will use is Jaws, which
is a film that, visually, hasnot aged terribly well.
However, you do think of theJaws theme immediately.
This isn't the best example,because it still looks great
today.
But Jurassic Park, you think ofthe score.
Star Wars, you can hear thatscore in your head, god.

(02:04:51):
But the movie looks bad though.

Speaker 2 (02:04:54):
It's really hard.

Speaker 3 (02:04:56):
I know I understand this is for the win though it's,
it's hard, it's really hard, Iknow.

Speaker 2 (02:04:59):
I would highly recommend that you pivot into um
.

Speaker 3 (02:05:00):
This is for the win these are just things that I'll
also say that again, because,even though mass effect didn't
end the, the best when we'retalking, thinking about video
game score, video gamesoundtrack, it is.
It's something that still, uh,lives in my head to this day,
despite how it ended.
So a good score can make up fora lot when it comes to a story

(02:05:24):
and specifically sci-fi, um, butmaybe not what we're talking
about here today.
I was fine.
I was pushing a rock uphillthis whole time.
Eric, I don't know what youwant from me all All right.

Speaker 2 (02:05:35):
Well, congratulations , Nick Home run at the end there
.

Speaker 3 (02:05:39):
I'll tell you.

Speaker 2 (02:05:39):
Phil, you went Jaws, which was already kind of a
tough act because, like visually, it's still pretty decent for
its time.
But you went Jaws and then youimmediately followed up with,
and this isn't a good example.

Speaker 3 (02:05:52):
And then you said Jurassic Park.

Speaker 2 (02:05:52):
Well, that's like the first movie that I thought of.

Speaker 3 (02:05:55):
The other thing, what about Deep Blue Sea, where I
don't think about those sharks,I think about LL Cool J saying
deepest bluest.
My hat is like a shark's fin.

Speaker 2 (02:06:06):
You know there's no winning.
Congratulations, nick, winningthe debate.
And we've got one final game.
This is way more casual andgoing to be pretty quick.
This is a quick, rapid firegame that we like to play.
It is a visual game for ouraudio only listeners, but it'll
go by pretty quickly.
It's called Cinemoji, and forthis game you guys will have a

(02:06:30):
series of emojis that willappear on the screen.
So we'll move to the how toplay.
An example of what that'll looklike for star trek.
You'll see a star and thensomeone trekking up a mountain,
or there'll be a visual element.
So it's not the title, but youwould know immediately by the
hand signal here that this isspeaking to spock star trek,

(02:06:53):
right?
So there's going to be sometype of emoji either explaining
the title or something verysignificant from the movie,
maybe a quote or an action andit is your job to shout out a
guess as quickly as possiblebefore the other.
Whoever gets the most correctwins.
There's about seven films hereunder the sci-fi umbrella.

(02:07:16):
There's about seven films hereunder the sci-fi umbrella.
A couple of these are going togo super fast, and then there
might be a few that make youpause.
So, with that being said, let'sjump into our first one and
shout it out, if you know it.

Speaker 3 (02:07:31):
Knife run, knife stab run.
Scream no, no.

Speaker 1 (02:07:39):
Knife party?

Speaker 2 (02:07:40):
I don't know no, there's no way.

Speaker 3 (02:07:47):
Thank, you blade runner.

Speaker 2 (02:07:50):
I was like please knife party, one of my favorite
good band name, all right.
You can reveal the image.
Phil, Blade Runner is theanswer.
All right, we're rocking androlling.
Let's run to our next one.
Shout out the answer iRobot.

Speaker 3 (02:08:11):
iRobot.

Speaker 2 (02:08:12):
All right, Phil, just slightly beating you out there
1-1.
The answer is I Robot.

Speaker 3 (02:08:18):
I just went into a YouTube deep dive into I Robot
recently.
The movie is nothing like thebook, right.

Speaker 1 (02:08:26):
There's some differences.
Yeah, I mean I enjoyed both.

Speaker 2 (02:08:31):
Yeah, Good time Enjoyed both.
Good time, all right that wasWill Smith pre-slap.

Speaker 1 (02:08:35):
He was crushing it.
He was.
That was Will Smith pre-slap.

Speaker 3 (02:08:37):
He was crashing it he was.
It was the summer of Will Smith.
At that time it was he had justreleased.
He was coming off IndependenceDay and stuff.
Yeah, he was on a crazy run.

Speaker 2 (02:08:47):
I have faith he'll come back.
Yeah, generational.
All right, shout out the nextone if you know the answer et
phone home oh yep, that is.

Speaker 3 (02:08:58):
That is et et phone home house phone I was gonna I
was actually gonna uh guess whatwas.
What's that movie called theblack phone, black no?

Speaker 2 (02:09:09):
that's black.
That was good.
Black phone was good.

Speaker 3 (02:09:12):
Yeah, it's really good, very good, sequel coming
out soon all right, nicks.

Speaker 2 (02:09:16):
Nick's up 2-1.
Let's go to our next one.

Speaker 3 (02:09:20):
Ready Player One.

Speaker 2 (02:09:22):
That is Ready Player One.
Very good job, all right, shoutout if you know the next one.

Speaker 3 (02:09:34):
Titanic the sci-fi epic titanic titanic I don't
believe that falls under thatumbrella, starship troopers?

Speaker 2 (02:09:47):
it is oh, starship troopers one of my absolute
favorites there we go back inthe day.

Speaker 1 (02:09:52):
That's uh.
Would you like it?

Speaker 2 (02:09:54):
no more that is a perfect way to take the lead and
is a 3-2 lead for Nick.
Shout out if you know the nextone.

Speaker 3 (02:10:07):
Fire, fire, water.
What is this Half fire, halfAvatar way of the water?
No, it is not Avatar Avatar Wayof the Water.

Speaker 2 (02:10:19):
No, it is not Avatar Way of the Water.
I will give a hint in a moment,if needed.
Five.

Speaker 3 (02:10:28):
I have no idea.
Fire water Okay.

Speaker 2 (02:10:31):
The hint I will give is the fire and water describe
one word.
I didn't want to put just onethere, so I put two on purpose
to try to create a word.
So think of what fire, waterand other things might represent
here.

Speaker 1 (02:10:54):
Steam, that's what I said, yeah something with steam?

Speaker 3 (02:11:03):
okay, I have no idea.

Speaker 2 (02:11:08):
I'm gonna give another hint.
The word I couldn't put in hereis the.
The movie we're talking aboutstarts with the word the the
five, the movie we're talkingabout starts with the word the,
the five.
I have no clue, okay, nick anyguesses?

Speaker 3 (02:11:31):
Five water fire, water combined into water.

Speaker 1 (02:11:35):
Oh, what's the?

Speaker 3 (02:11:39):
Water fire.
Oh my gosh, I have no idea.
No, Okay.

Speaker 2 (02:11:45):
Other things that I could have put.
Let me see Other like symbols Icould have put would have been
uh, fire, water, uh earth, wind,power rangers what'd you say,
nick avatar?

Speaker 1 (02:12:06):
no, not avatar.

Speaker 2 (02:12:07):
I guess that no, did you say patrick star.
I said power rangers oh, Ithought I heard somebody say pat
Patrick Star fire, water, earth, fucking Pokemon.

Speaker 1 (02:12:19):
What is this?

Speaker 3 (02:12:20):
okay, okay fire water , captain Planet nope, this is.

Speaker 2 (02:12:26):
I can't believe.
This is the one that's dumped.
Stop, alright, I can't give youthe last one because it'll give
it away, but it is.
It starts with the and the five.
It is actually five TH.

Speaker 1 (02:12:42):
Oh, fifth element.

Speaker 2 (02:12:43):
There we go.

Speaker 3 (02:12:46):
It is, yeah, it is the fifth element.
Okay, because they're elements.

Speaker 2 (02:12:52):
Yeah, and you hate elemental, so I couldn't count
on you figuring out that thoseare the two elements I chose.

Speaker 3 (02:12:57):
I hope it's not that.

Speaker 2 (02:12:59):
So, Nick, you're going to win this with a 4-2
lead, but our next one, whoknows?
Honestly, if neither of you getit, I'd be surprised, but this
is also I maybe thought thehardest one, but I don't know
anymore.
My confidence is shaken.
So if you know the answer,shout it out Interstellar.

(02:13:21):
No.

Speaker 1 (02:13:25):
Galaxy Quest.

Speaker 2 (02:13:27):
Crazy pull.

Speaker 1 (02:13:27):
Galaxy Quest is correct.

Speaker 3 (02:13:30):
No, are you?

Speaker 2 (02:13:31):
serious it is.
What the hell you?

Speaker 3 (02:13:37):
guys struggled on the fifth element, and then you
pulled galaxy quest out ofnowhere.

Speaker 1 (02:13:40):
Great job, that one all right that one was out of my
ass.

Speaker 2 (02:13:44):
That was good, all right, congratulations, dick uh,
two, two and oh, in the waitfor it, games and uh yeah, that
is um, that is how we wrap upthis episode.
Uh, ladies and gentlemen, so,uh, phil, this was a ton of fun
and, yeah, I'm so sorry thatthis happened to you once again.

Speaker 3 (02:14:02):
No, I don't think you are.
I don't think you are at all.
But, nick, again, thank you somuch for taking the time with us
here this evening.
We cannot wait to see what'snext for you and for Vidalarium.
We will be following you veryclosely, as well as continuing
to support you.
So, please, for our audience,how can they continue to support
you?
Where can they find you, aswell as where can they find your

(02:14:23):
work?
Please, let them know.

Speaker 1 (02:14:25):
Absolutely.
You can find me on all socialmedias Instagram X, tiktok,
facebook threads at Vidulariumseries or at Vidalarium it'll
pop up.
There's not too manyVidalariums out there.
My website, vidalariumseriescom.

(02:14:46):
You can find my book on Amazon.
You can find it on Audible.
You can find it on Barnes andNoble, booksamillioncom, certain
indie bookshops just aboutanywhere where you get your
books, especially online.
You can find Videlirium Descentinto the Void, and book two
should be coming out towards theend of this year, as well as

(02:15:09):
the comics, which you can findon my website or at any of the
conventions that we're going tothis year.
We're going to 15 conventionsthis year and that number is
still climbing.
I actually just actually no 16now.
I just signed up for anotherone today and yeah, no, listen
guys, this was absolutely ablast.
I thank you a lot for having meon.

(02:15:32):
I hope we can do this againsometime in the future, maybe
when I got a few more comics andanother book to talk about.
But I had a blast and thank you.

Speaker 3 (02:15:45):
Yeah, likewise, nick, thank you again.
It was fun linking up with youat Collective Con and we hope to
see you at more shows aroundFlorida as the year goes on.
And yeah, everything you needto know about Nick and
Vidalarium will be in the shownotes of this episode, which is
where you can also keep up withthe Wait For A Podcast.
We're in similar places thatNick just mentioned.
Keep up with us, mostimportantly, on Instagram,

(02:16:07):
tiktok, our growing Discordchannel.
We upload videos to YouTube andwe're streaming every other
week over on Twitch Although, asI have been mentioning, that
may change soon.
So more content on the way forour Twitch channel.
But you can support the show acouple of different ways Tag us,
let us know that you listened,let Nick know that you listened
and that you're also reading orlistening to the book.

(02:16:28):
All of that.
We love hearing from you guysand hearing the feedback.
And, on the podcast side ofthings, leave us five stars
spotify, apple podcast, whereverit may be.
All that helps, the wibbly,wobbly, algorithm stuff, and we
thank you very much.
But if you want to get somebehind the scenes stuff, maybe
get a little bit more involvedwith the wait for it community
and become one of those famouswait watchers.

(02:16:48):
Eric will let you know a littlebit more about that and then
wrap us up yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:16:52):
So there's a lot of ways you can support the show,
but none are more appreciatedthan our Patreon.
And that's for our patrons likeBriar, stefan T3Kato, corey
from the World is my Burrito andVintage, and Bridget from Retro
AV Rewind.
We really appreciate theirsupport and in return, they get
access, early access and behindthe scenes looks at episodes

(02:17:14):
like this one in exchange forthat.
So we're very much appreciative, appreciative, continuing to
grow that platform.
If you can do that, that'sgreat.
If you can't, the free stuff isawesome as well the likes, the
comments, the engagement, theshares, everything under the sun
we really do.
Thank you for the support andwe can't wait to have you back
for the next episode.
With that being said, my namename is Mr Eric Almighty.

(02:17:37):
That is my co-host, phil theFilipino and our wonderful guest
, nick.
And, please don't forget, forthe podcast, we release new
episodes every Wednesday, plusbonus content on platforms like
TikTok and Twitch, and all yougotta do is wait for it.

Speaker 3 (02:17:54):
So I heard you're looking for a go-to source for
entertainment.
Wait for it.
Gaming, Wait for it.

Speaker 1 (02:18:00):
Anime PLUS ULTRA.

Speaker 2 (02:18:04):
Mr Eric Almighty and Phil the Filipino yeah, they've
got you covered, and all yougotta do is wait for it.

Speaker 3 (02:18:24):
This is the Wait For it Podcast.

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