August 13, 2025 • 43 mins
The devastating impact of war through the eyes of children creates one of cinema's most profound animated experiences, standing as Studio Ghibli's most sobering and realistic work.
• Grave of the Fireflies (1988) is directed by Isao Takahata, co-founder of Studio Ghibli
• The film follows 14-year-old Seita and his younger sister Setsuko as they struggle to survive after losing their mother in WWII Japan
• Originally released as a double feature with My Neighbor Totoro, creating a stark contrast in tone and subject matter
• Based on a semi-autobiographical short story where the author survived but lost his sister to malnutrition
• Currently holds 100% on Rotten Tomatoes and is widely considered one of the greatest war films ever made
• Recently became available on Netflix after decades of limited accessibility
• The complex portrayal of Seita's character sparks debates about responsibility versus impossible circumstances
Letterbox'd Synopsis: In the final months of World War II, 14-year-old Seita and his sister Setsuko are orphaned when their mother is killed during an air raid in Kobe, Japan. After a falling out with their aunt, they move into an abandoned bomb shelter. With no surviving relatives and their emergency rations depleted, Seita and Setsuko struggle to survive.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to your go-to source for entertainment.
Wait for it.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Gaming.
Wait for it Anime PLUS ULTRA.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Mr Eric Almighty and Phil the Filipino.
Yeah, they've got you covered.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
And all you gotta do is wait for it.
This is the Wait For it Podcast.
Hey, everyone, welcome back tothe Wait For it Podcast.
(00:37):
I am your co-host, phil Barrera, aka Phil the Filipino.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
And I'm your other co-host, mr Eric Almighty, and
for this edition ofInternational Feature, we
decided to tackle either thebest film of all time according
to some people the best Ghiblifilm of all time to some people,
but to most and I think wewould agree probably the saddest
film of all time, and thatmovie is Grave of the Fireflies.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Yeah, we are back to the Ghibli well, and Eric has
agreed that if this does not gowell for me, then I can stop
watching Ghibli films.
I have given it a chance.
I've watched this would benumber four and you guys can
stop coming up to me with well,you should try this one.
(01:22):
I don't want to hear it, Idon't.
I have given this the oldcollege try, as people would say
, so I feel good about at leastgiving it a shot, eric yeah, now
did you like it?
Speaker 1 (01:37):
uh, who knows, am I gonna get yelled at, guaranteed,
because phil?
Phil already wasn't feelinggreat and then he, he
immediately said he's gonnathrow verbal hands at me before
we pressed record.
So you at least, at the veryleast, have that to look forward
to.
But, phil, this is a movie thatwe've circled for quite a long
(01:58):
time because not only does ithave a hundred percent on you
know not every film can say thatit's really regarded as a film
that is one of the best animatedfilms and people just kind of
put it in general films of alltime, when you have like a top
10, top 20, top 30 list.
Grave of the Fireflies,surprisingly, is on there quite
(02:20):
a bit for a lot of differentpeople, quite a bit for a lot of
different people, and it's amovie, phil, that also has just
such acclaim and love fromoutside of the Ghibli-verse,
like for people that don't watchGhibli.
I tend to see them lean towardsthis one out of the catalog the
most, which should be noted,not a Miyazaki film.
(02:40):
So it's going to be veryinteresting, at the very least,
to see what your thoughts wereconsidering that information,
and maybe you leaned a littlebit more positively, or a lot
more positively.
It also could be the same oldstory with Ghibli films for you,
so I'm going to be veryinterested to hear your take on
it.
For me, I definitely am excitedto get into this because, as a
(03:03):
film taker, just like an intakeof film, this is one that has
been on the agenda for quite abit.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Yeah, certainly it is a film you cannot really ignore
.
If you are any type in anyrange of fan of film, you know
this is something that's goingto come up no matter what.
So, yeah, let's get into ithere.
Any brand new listeners orreturning listeners, make sure
you stick around to the end ofthe episode, we'll let you know.
We can find everything Wait ForPodcast related.
But Grave of the Fireflies in1988, directed by Isao Takahata.
(03:34):
Letterboxd synopsis.
In the final months of World WarTwo, 14 year old Saita and his
sister Setsuko are orphaned whentheir mother is killed during
an air raid.
So, Eric, there is a scene inTed Lasso that I watch whenever
I need to conjure up someemotion, when I'm doing
voiceover, and I'll set thescene for this scene.
Ted's mother has come to visithim and he hasn't seen her in a
(04:19):
while Now.
Ted went through a traumaticevent when he was a teenager.
His father passed away and Ted,of course, is a very upbeat and
lovable, charming guy.
With his mom it's totallydifferent.
And finally it comes to blows atthe end of this episode in
season three and Ted goes well,thank you for coming here and
fuck you for not telling me.
And his mom is like kind oftaken aback, like what do you
(04:41):
mean?
I beg your pardon.
He's like thank you for makingmy childhood so memorable and
fuck you for not making yourselfbetter whenever dad passed away
eric.
Thank you for bringing thisfilm to my attention and fuck
you for bringing this film to myattention.
Thank you for making me watch apiece of animated history and
(05:06):
fuck you for making me feel thefeelings I had to feel while
watching this yeah, um, you'rewelcome obviously we're going to
talk freely about this movie.
it's as old as me, being great,for the fireflies book came out
in 1988, so allegedly this isthe first time in a while where
(05:32):
I watched a film, of course, sawthe events of the ending and
you know everything that happenswithin the last 20-30 minutes
of the movie and thenimmediately went back to rewatch
the beginning because of course, then you really understand,
you know what is happening thereand I felt worse about it but I
(05:53):
, like, had to know and I waslike I, I knew I had to
immediately go back and and feeldifferently, knowing what I
knew at the end, which is why Ihad to go back and watch the
beginning and I don't feel goodman.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yeah, weird, I uh, I would agree with that.
It's not a movie I think youprobably want to watch more than
once, but I would say it's amovie everyone should see at
least once, and that that kindof like myth around it or like
that's not even really the wordI'm looking for, but that type
of aura around it is really whatdrove me to wanting to finally
(06:34):
watch it, and there were acouple of factors at play here.
Number one it's not quite alate to the party, because I
feel like a lot of people feelhave not seen this, like even
people that love Ghibli films.
This isn't one that I hear alot in those circles and in
anime in general.
Again, it's really more peoplewho like love film that have
ended up seeing this or puttingthis on their radar.
(06:56):
Number two this movie, as of2025, is more accessible than
ever.
It came to Netflix this year.
It also, around the time ofthis episode, either entered or
is exiting theaters.
So this is going to be a moviethat I think is going to be
talked about even more so nowthan ever, and that's why I
thought it was just such aperfect, especially because of
(07:18):
the setting of the movie, thetheme, the thematics of the film
.
All of that was just a perfectconcoction for international
feature, and although we aregoing to talk pretty freely,
phil, I can already tell we'rereally wanting to hold off on
some of the core spoilers forthat reason, but I think at some
point we probably will have todiscuss that.
(07:39):
So I would just implore you, ifthis is a movie that's been on
your radar at all, there'sliterally no excuse to not watch
it, and I would absolutelyencourage you to check that out
before we really dive into thenitty gritty of the story, the
plot, some of the circumstancesand where our characters end up.
Phil, that out of the waythough, I mean, there's just so
(08:00):
much to discuss, and I think wehave adopted kind of a new
format of maybe picking likethree things each that we wanted
to highlight.
So I think we'll probably dothat for this episode and kind
of see where that takes us.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Yeah, definitely.
I do want to shout out ourfriends Corey and Ivan, because
I did inform them.
You know that I the emotionsthat I was going through
watching this film, and Grave ofthe Fireflies is a very
important movie in the historyof Ghibli because without it it
probably does not exist in theway that it does now.
They wanted to make my NeighborTotoro and I think the studio
(08:39):
essentially stated because theytake place around the same time
frame and the studio essentiallywanted a more realistic
depiction of what it was likeduring this time for people in
Japan.
So they made Grave of theFireflies, which allowed Totoro
to be greenlit.
Now I believe I have thosethings in the correct order,
corey, ivan, please let me knowif I have them a little bit
(09:01):
misconstrued.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
But yeah, like it should be noted as well that
they both released at the sametime.
Yes, yep.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Crazy double feature.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Crazy, double feature yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Grave of the Totoro would be the t-shirt.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Yeah, very much, the Barbie, the Barbenheimer of that
time.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Yeah, grave of the Totoro walked so Barbenheimer
could fly.
But, yeah, also, like youmentioned, it was a very
difficult film to find for along time.
Until very recently it was oneof the most difficult films to
own.
According to Corey barring,this year it had never been
streamed and they went about twodecades in between printings
(09:43):
and it was very, very small uh,that this was um, that there was
.
This was printed as well, so itwas a um.
So if you are thinking aboutseeing it and you have not yet,
it is also releasing in theaters.
On which date eric?
Uh, relative to this episode,because this episode we're
recording this on august 5th andI believe the it comes out in
theaters is it 10th through the12th?
I believe okay, so by the timethis episode yeah, sorry, we'll
(10:06):
have exit yeah, so it's okay.
But yeah, but, if anything, youcan watch it on netflix, so
definitely implore you to dothat.
But yeah, let's uh talk aboutsome takeaways here, eric.
Um, where do I want to go?
First, I would like to know howyou felt, eric, about Seta,
(10:30):
because there is a lot ofdiscourse online about this
character, I think, depending onI don't know, because I see a
lot of arguments from a bunch ofdifferent ways and, at the end
of the day, it's like he's a 14year old kid and they went
through unspeakable tragedy.
(10:51):
And this is another really sadnote.
I learned because this is basedoff of true events from the
director, and I think what Ilearned is that the boat that
Saita and Setsuko's father wason actually had, like, been sank
months beforehand, so he wasalready dead during the events
of this movie.
I was like fantastic.
Thank you so much, corey, fortelling me more information, for
(11:14):
more sad information.
So I think the discourse aboutSaita and his decisions, of
course, the one major decisionthat really doomed them.
Essentially.
I'd like to know how you feltabout that, because obviously,
watching it unfold, it is veryfrustrating, but also it's like
what do you expect out of a14-year-old.
It was just really strange tosee so many people have so much
(11:36):
aggression towards him.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Yeah, I think I'll be careful how much I spoil
because of the theme of thisepisode, kind of featuring this
to people who may not have seenit.
It's going to go to my lastpoint though, so I am going to
revisit that in a little bitmore greater detail.
I would say this movie putsthese two characters, these two
young characters, in justimpossible situations in you
(12:02):
know Japan, with bombingshappening.
It's just like the normal thing, like there's a throwaway line
where the sister is mentioningum Setsuko is mentioning like
she hates going to shelters, andthat was something.
On watching a couple ofdifferent reviews I think it was
Chris Stuckman's review of thismovie where he made a comment
(12:23):
about that Like, oh, wow, like,after watching it you kind of
realize she, she, she's used tothis, this is like what she's
used to, this is the life thatshe's come to know at such a
young age, and I think it'sreally tough because you have
this brother sister dynamic.
That I think works really welland is actually one of my first
(12:43):
points I wanted to touch on washow effective that relationship
is towards the buy-in for you tosit through such turmoil and
emotional angst.
It's done really well and youreally buy into their
relationship, but more so, toyour point, like it's not just a
brother-sister dynamic.
It almost turns into like aparental situation where he has
(13:05):
to take care of her.
And that's what I mean by likean impossible situation, just
like absolutely astronomicalodds against them in the
situation they're in.
And you know, on top of that,on top of that, you got to have
a bitch of an aunt.
You, it's just not right.
It's just not right.
So maybe the ultimate villainin some people's eyes I will
(13:30):
come back to that point becauseI don't think she's as much of a
villain as people maybe took ontheir watch through.
And we'll kind of get into thatwhen we talk about seita's
responsibilities and maybe lackof accountability.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Yeah, to touch on the aunt, it was obviously very
frustrating to watch but at thesame time, in the circumstances
that they are in, I'm notexcusing her behavior, but I'm
sure that behavior was veryprevalent during that time, like
, imagine, you know, I'm sure abunch of nieces and nephews
(14:10):
became orphaned and like peoplethat were already in dire
circumstances, taking onadditional mouths to feed.
Some of the things that she didobviously are very, very
sketchy and, again, I'm not afan of her overall just demeanor
and towards them to begin with.
But there is a like level orlayer of understanding as to
(14:34):
some of her actions, but itdoesn't.
It doesn't mean that we likethem for sure.
Yeah, well.
So, yeah, I'm excited to kindof revisit that here in a little
bit.
Eric, what was your firsttakeaway?
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Yeah, so mine was definitely the sibling
relationship.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Oh, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
But I can go to my second and we can kind of pivot
from there.
Obviously, some of thoseimpossible odds we were talking
about is the war that ishappening in Japan, all of the
bombings and just that wholesetting of time, and this isn't
the first movie to cover thattopic and it hasn't been the
last since.
(15:09):
This isn't the first movie tocover that topic and it hasn't
been the last since, but it'sjust so jarring to see it from,
I guess you would say, theviewpoints of children and it
just, I think, was reallyeffective in that setting.
There were things, phil, thatwere absolutely haunting in this
movie because they chose to bein such a volatile environment,
(15:31):
like the fact that this wasagain we complain about Ghibli
movies, like having to maybewatch a YouTube video afterwards
.
I definitely watched severalafter the movie and hearing
things of like how they would dothe bombs that would just set
up as much fire as possible tothese wooden houses, but a lot
of them wouldn't like combust.
(15:52):
So you even saw in, like thefilm, there are just these
missiles, these flame missiles,lying on the ground everywhere
and obviously there's thecorrelation with fireflies and
you know, we'll kind of talkabout maybe that scene a little
bit, which is devastating, butthat, absolutely being the
thematic focus point, a lot ofpeople look at this as like an
(16:13):
anti-war movie.
I didn't feel that, but what Idid feel it displayed was just
the absolute desecration that'sleft after war has happened and
during, and that absolutely madeit such a gripping story for me
to really be able to enjoy.
Interested to see if you haveany thoughts on that and then we
(16:35):
can kind of lead into yoursecond takeaway.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Yeah, from what I could see is that, like this
really made people.
It was shocking to a lot ofpeople to see just how like,
gritty and realistic this filmwas.
It really made people likealter their sense of how they
looked at animated films.
Because of course you know,when you think about animated
films you think of children'sfilms.
(17:00):
I hope nobody in the 80s tooktheir kids to this wonder, like
not knowing what it was.
I just wanted to google reallyquick, like what movie, what
animated films came out in the1980s?
Like we're talking about filmslike the land before time, which
in and of itself is prettydevastating, but then, as we
talked about my neighbor totoro,um, what were some of the
(17:21):
disney films that came out?
So we have like american taletransformers.
These are the kind of moviesthat probably parents are taking
their kids to and then you seesomething like this.
I certainly am not going to seethis in theaters, like we
alluded to earlier.
I don't think I could sit andwatch this again, let alone
object myself to it on a largescreen, although I'm sure seeing
(17:43):
it in that large screen wouldbe quite the experience.
But yeah, this does actuallykind of tie into my next take.
So this worked out perfectly.
But, yeah, just the devastation.
And not only that, eric, Ithink also the, the non-chalant
chalantness of the adults too,who have, of course, been, are
very used to living in thisworld.
(18:03):
It's it's one thing that we'rebeing, we're watching this
through the eyes of the kids,but when we see certain moments
where it's being, where we see aglimpse of how the adults are
handling it the aunt, the doctor, the subway worker in the very
beginning, like it's just such anot carefree way that they're
going about it, but it's likethis is you know, what do you
(18:24):
expect?
Like this is this is life, andthat is equally as haunting as
what you're discussing too withthe depiction of war.
Mine is these are all tied intoanimation and, of course, with
ghibli, that's just a given atthis point.
No matter what I felt about theghibli films as films, I've
always praised the animation.
You guys can go back and listento those.
(18:44):
My takeaway from animation wisewas the food, because ghibli is
so like everything I mean evenin, you know we're talking about
, of course, um, uh, spiritedaway and some of the and so many
of these other films where foodis such a focus and it's.
It's this delicacy, obviously,and like this really lavish
(19:07):
thing that she like, uh,something to be celebrated, and
here every grain of rice isimportant, everything that they
come across stealing cropshaving to result to catching
their own food a little bitlater in the film, and it was
just crazy to see the use offood done so differently in this
(19:27):
as opposed to, again, howfantastical it is in other
Ghibli projects.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Yeah, I think that's absolutely something that you
could take away from the filmthe lack of fancy visuals and
enticing enchanted worlds.
This movie is not that, which,I guess, is what we were hoping
Walking into this.
I'll kind of add this littlepiece to the discussion before I
(19:53):
get to my final point, which is, phil, this movie is so
different from any ghibli filmyou've seen so far the three
that you've seen spirited away,porco rosso, the boy and the
heron.
For me, this is distinctlydifferent in both the way it
tells its story, the setting,and, while it still has that
Ghibli feel visually like you'rekind of alluding to, it is
(20:17):
different For Takahata's work.
Who is the director for this one?
And by all means, let me knowhow to pronounce the first name,
but I'm going to go with what Ithink I could pronounce.
Takahata is the co-founder ofStudio Ghibli, and this is not
the only Ghibli film he's done.
It is one of the most notableones out of his filmography.
(20:38):
Though, phil, are you gonnaconsider watching another Ghibli
film if it's under his umbrella, or would you give a Miyazaki
film another chance, maybe likea Princess Mononoke with more of
an adult or serious theme?
I want to know where yourthoughts kind of lie, now that
we know you at least havepositive thoughts about this
(20:58):
film.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
I think I would consider it, but not anytime
soon.
So like I'm out of all of them,like the ones that I have been
most open to watching again isPrincess Mononoke, and everyone
keeps saying I'd like Ponyo, somaybe I'll just watch Ponyo, I
don't know.
I don't know or either that orTotoro, just to have the
(21:22):
juxtaposition of both thesefilms coming out at the same
exact time doing that, so yeahyeah, would consider it, but
again I'm not in any rush.
But as far as jumping back intoTakahata's work, certainly
because of how much care he putinto this you can really tell
there is like a there is a senseof personability with this,
(21:46):
that he is tied to this story,knowing that the original author
, of course, based it on, youknow, scenes with what happened
with his own sister, and itseems like takahata really took
the care to portray that here.
So I would certainly considerit, but I'm not in any rush
that's understandable.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
uh, the reason I asked is because, unlike I,
don't think any Ghibli film hasa hundred percent on rotten
tomatoes, takahata has three.
He has Grave of the Fireflies,a film called Only Yesterday,
which released in 1991.
So just a few years after,which has quite a couple of
names in here actually, thosenames can't be right.
(22:25):
And then finally, the Tale ofprincess kaguya, released in
2013, which is a film I've hadon my radar just in general.
So, yeah, that'll be reallyinteresting and I think if we
ever went back to the miyazaki,well, it would be mononoke.
So I will absolutely put thaton my radar at some point in the
(22:46):
future.
Maybe this is something goinginto next year where we look at
revisiting that.
But I wanted to ask thatbecause, phil, this might be the
part where you know we've kindof talked freely about the film
without diving into exactly whathappens at the end, and you
know what we learned at thebeginning of the film.
That's going to be my third andfinal point, so this will
(23:07):
probably be the official spoilerwarning.
If you have not left alreadybecause you haven't seen the
film, this is your time to do so.
Uh, they both die.
They both die.
Obviously, we learn at thebeginning of the film that uh
Saita is going to die and thenwe see uh Setsuko's death later
(23:28):
on due to the malnourishment,and she very quickly passes.
Like it's not something theyreally focus on, which I don't
know that I loved as much.
We'll kind of talk about thathere, maybe in this discussion.
I'm going to go back to what sheasked originally, though, about
Saita and the discourse there.
I mean, it's definitely hisfucking fault.
I mean we, we can cookie cutterhowever we want to cut it.
(23:52):
He is a young child who shouldnot have been in that situation.
But my opinion for what I feelfor that character, is that he
didn't really other than dying,which maybe is the biggest
consequence.
I don't really feel there werea lot of consequences for, like
(24:12):
the absolute mistakes that hemade that led to Setsuko's death
, and it was just stuff like hekind of seemed like almost
privileged in a way when youfirst meet him.
He's got this naval dad youknow naval officer dad.
The way he handles the mom'sdeath not great with Setsuko, I
(24:32):
think uh really wasn't awesome,yeah, cute to feed her like the
drop, the, like the candy dropsor whatever the candy fruit
drops, whatever they were.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Fruit drops.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Thank you, yeah, great to feed her the fruit drop
, the fruit drops.
But again there were like a lotof signs that she was gonna
start to be malnourished andstuff.
And then like with the aunt, Iget she sucks, but kind of
validated a little bit Like I'mnot responsible for y'all,
(25:03):
really, like rations are low andI mean like I get the apology
thing is like probably acultural thing.
But there was almost like asense of pride with Seita where
he just wouldn't do it and thenhe had a chance to go back and
doesn't do it for the sake ofhis sister.
And there's a.
There's a line the auntmentions where it's like you're
old enough where you should becontributing, and I don't ever
(25:27):
feel like he tried to contribute.
You know he's stealing fromcrops, he's doing what he has to
do to live, but it wasn'tenough.
I feel like there were momentswhere this is where the film
kind of lost me towards the end,lost a couple of brownie points
for me.
I love their relationship,brother and sister, but when
that dynamic changes, I can'thelp but to look at Seda with a
(25:48):
different pair of glasses, adifferent pair of goggles on,
and my opinion of him changed bythe end of the film.
Did you feel that at all?
Am I off course at all fromwhat you were feeling when you
saw this?
Speaker 2 (26:03):
It's hard to really like because it was his fault,
this is his fault and and someof the things you're alluding to
, like um not contributing andalso being overly reliant on
money that he did not he that hehad.
He should not have been incontrol over.
(26:24):
Um seems like he also hadaccess to those funds way sooner
, which he he should have done,but at the same time, those
decisions should not have beenleft up to him.
However, in this setting, it'spretty much every person for
themselves.
So again, like I mentionedearlier, like taking in two
additional mouths to feed andthese people, you know, these
(26:48):
kids essentially becoming herresponsibility, which shouldn't
be, I'm sure, culturally, I'mnot sure how it works over there
, and so over here, a sibling ora relative will step up, but
that's in instances where thereis a tragedy, something happens
(27:09):
to their parents and then theygo live with them.
But, like in an instance wherewe're talking about rationing
out supplies, rationing out food, you're living under distress
every single night, waiting forthose sirens to go off.
You got to take care of yourown, take care of your own.
(27:32):
So I understand, like, thefrustration and the discourse
towards Saita, but at the sametime, I am very cognizant of the
fact that he is a kid and heshouldn't have had to make those
decisions, but I mean it.
Just it was what it was.
He had to become that parent.
So, yes, there were manymissteps along the way, but
those were intentional and notsurprising when you think about
it from the lens of oh, this isa 14 year old kid.
(27:52):
He shouldn't have to be makingthose decisions, he was forced
into making them.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Yeah, that's completely valid, completely
valid, and I think you can haveboth sides of the coin as far as
conversations go, and I thinkthat's why I don't view it as
like a full on negative.
But, you know, I did walk awaykind of feeling that way by the
end.
It was like just like damn,like that's just.
I know the circumstances suckedand that that's not something
(28:18):
he should have had to beresponsible for, but he was, you
know, and the actions that he,that he took, the actions that
he took, were definitely whatled to, you know, setsuko
passing away, definitely whatled to you know, setsuko passing
away.
So, uh, and and ultimatelyended up being his demise as
well, which is, I believe, onthe short story it's based on,
is the one major change theymade.
(28:38):
Uh, because obviously, you know, he, he goes on to live and
writes the story, uh, that weended up watching here.
So, phil, what is your finaltakeaway, before maybe we throw
out any other mentions ordiscussions?
Speaker 2 (28:53):
uh, before we scored and everything yeah, the last
thing which was probably sayingthat it's one of my favorite
parts or that I enjoyed is sostrange when it comes to this
film and that'll be reflectedwhen we talk about scores.
But I just really enjoyed thesense of like a spiritual
presence like him re-watchinghis actions and then, like I
(29:16):
said in the beginning, I wentback and immediately re-watched
the beginning with a heavy heartand just absolutely shattered
to pieces and just seeing that,especially like the framing
device with like seita andsetsuko's spirits, kind of like
again rewatching everything, andI like that the use of their
spirits is not used as likesomething in like horror related
(29:40):
.
It was used as a device forlike it's a lingering memory,
like they're still around andand I think it's what makes it
even more haunting is maybethey're re-watching this, all
play back and realizing whatthey could have done differently
and you know things would havebeen.
They still would have beenaround today.
So, as someone who you knowobviously very much leans into
(30:03):
like that spiritual realm, uh,when it comes to interests, I
really like how they use that ina non-horror fashion,
non-traditional horror that'swhat I'll say, because it is
still horrifying and that wasdefinitely one of my favorite
parts of the film.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Yeah, that's great.
That's great.
I think I would agree with that.
I would also add that the useof the fireflies in a lot of the
scenes, like with the firefliesand the bombing, and just like
some of the allegories and thecomparisons there, were just
really, really impactful.
Obviously, I'm going to walkaway from this film, remembering
the you know why do why dofireflies die so soon?
(30:41):
Line that that shit is sad, sadas fuck, so sad.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
I know we don't do a tagline tagline, tagline for
international feature, but itwould just be brave of the
fireflies, sad as fuck pretty,pretty straightforward.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
I mean, we probably could have avoided doing a whole
episode and just said that, butI don't know man it is sad as
fuck, but, like I think what,why we both liked the film
ultimately is that it just has alot more to offer than that.
Is it a movie that I plan onwatching ever again?
No, but I did want to ask youbefore we go to scores Phil, how
(31:18):
did you watch this?
Did you watch this in sub?
Did you watch this in dub?
I watched it dub because if Iever plan to watch both, I can't
watch dub last.
It never works in my favor.
I'm a little bit too overlycritical, so I watched it in Dub
.
But I did go back to pivotalscenes to hear how it sounded in
(31:38):
Sub.
And I will say, if I was toever watch this movie again, it
would be in Sub, because I wasvery interested to hear it in
Japanese, given the topicalnature of the subject at hand.
Where did you end up landing onyour decision to watch it in
either dub or sub?
Speaker 2 (31:57):
I also watched it in dub and had that exact plan to
do what you just said, but Icould not.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Emotionally.
I was like I can't.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
I'll revisit them later, maybe like months down
the line, but I did watch it indub as well.
Yeah, I saw that there wasreally like I can't.
I'll revisit them later, maybelike months down the line, but I
did watch it in dub as well.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Yeah, I saw that there was really like, when we
talk about credits for the film,there's really only four major
characters that are reallycredited in this film or that
are the focal point, and two ofthem are our main characters.
So once I heard enough of theirdialogue I was like I'm going to
probably just commit to thisbecause it's not like sometimes
with dubs they can be overallgreat but a couple of few bad
(32:34):
eggs.
But I tend to find you couldtell really quickly with a
smaller cast whether or notyou're going to vibe with it or
not, and then you could kind ofback out of it early enough into
the watch through where you canstart over without it feeling
like a big chore.
And that's kind of where Iended up.
As far as watching it in dub, Ienjoyed it.
I thought it was pretty welldone.
(32:54):
I think it was a redub from theoriginal as well, if I did my
research correctly.
But with all that being said,phil, we need to talk about not
only how this movie has beenreceived, what our scores are
and where, in the manyinternational features that
we've done so far, this movielands.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Yeah.
So, as you alluded to earlier,eric, as far as Rotten Tomatoes
score, 100% on the tomato meter,95% on the popcorn meter, an
unprecedented 8.5 on IMDB, whichwe always talk about, is
probably the most critical, likethe most difficult one to score
high on, and then currently a4.5 on Letterboxd.
(33:38):
As we mentioned earlier, it'sregarded as one of the best
films of all time and again itis responsible for the Ghibli
that we have here today.
So for those of you that arebig fans of those films, thank
Grave of the Fireflies.
So, eric, I ended up givingthis a four, which is far and
away the highest score I've evergiven any Studio Ghibli project
(34:03):
and, because of where it sitshistorically and because of
those themes that we discussedhere today, it certainly is one
of the most impactful films Ihave ever seen that I hope to
never see again ladies andgentlemen, we got them, we got
them, we got them crazy.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
I do believe that's the only ghibli film that you've
seen that you've given over athree.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
So, like evening them all out, it's still pretty low
as far as overalls yeah, as faras overalls go.
The Firefly is doing a lot ofheavy lifting.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
You definitely made up with that score.
I actually went a little bitlower than you did.
I ended up at a three and ahalf.
This movie is really close tobeing a four for me, like a
movie that I feel like I canshow anybody.
I just feel like the movie Idon't want to say ends
anticlimactically.
But everyone just talks abouthow sad this movie is and I
(35:00):
think, is it fucked up to say itcould have been sadder, like a
little bit sadder?
Is it fucked up to say it couldhave been sadder, like a little
bit sadder?
Is it fucked up to say I'm notreally sure?
Okay, yeah, I'll just have toeat that one.
What more sadness do you want?
So again, some things likeSetsuko's death like just kind
of happening like.
So, like almost nonchalantly.
(35:21):
I was thinking there'd be moreof like a devastating scene.
Obviously, you know, with saita, this is again part of his
character.
He's like very somber, like wedon't ever really like, even
with his mom, with, uh, setsuko,his, I mean, he gets kind of
emotional about his dad in a way, but almost in an angry,
selfish way.
It's.
(35:41):
I think it's saita's characterspecifically that I mentioned
earlier.
I kind of had to dock it a fewpoints and that's what it is.
It's like one.
I do think there are somemoments that could have hit a
little harder for me, and thenSaita's character specifically.
I just maybe upon a rewatch I'ma little bit more forgiving.
This movie's probably a 3.75.
In reality I had to round up ordown and I just chose to round
(36:04):
down because when I walked awayfrom the movie I was thinking
about it actively.
I will always think about thismovie, but then I will always
think about some of the things Ididn't like when it came to
that characterization.
And yeah, that's kind of whereI landed on Grave of the
Fireflies subject to change, butthat's a good score in the
(36:24):
grand scheme of things.
Of where I placed it, it'spretty much smack dab in the
middle of our list.
We've seen 35 or listed 35movies on Letterboxd.
I see that's probably half,almost the exact halfway point.
A little bit is 19.
So right in that little realmin the middle of this list,
right below another war film AllQuiet on the Western Front and
(36:47):
right above, I'm Still here.
This is my highest ranked threeand a half movie and I
re-evaluated it today as I wasreally stewing on it and that's
where it ended up landing in thefinal spot.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Phil, I believe you are somewhere close to that as
well on your list mine's higheractually and we're getting to
the point in this series whereif we there's like a first-time
listener here and they hear likegrave of the fireflies, 19, or
in my case I have it at 13,right behind anasia 2, hi nana
(37:20):
and in front of I'm still hereand old boy, and it's going to
be like people are going to hear13 or 19 for one of the most
critically acclaimed films ofall time and not know the other
movies that are on this list.
So if you are a new listener,we definitely implore you to
check out our letterboxdpersonal pages, both me and
eric's, which is in our linktree.
So, yeah, I have a number 13,um, right amongst those those.
(37:43):
Every other film I mentioned onthat list is also listed as a
four.
So, yeah, that is where it sitsamongst another film I never
want to watch again an old boy,probably, oak chuck.
Yeah, there are some heavyhitters and that's why, like
international film has been sogreat to watch, because it has
(38:04):
been so heavy hitting and ofcourse, not that films that we
have over here on our sidearen't that, but like so many of
them that we just missed out onwhen we were younger.
And it has totally reframed thefilms that we want to watch now
, like 20 years ago we wouldn'thave watched the banshees of
Inishirin or past lives, evenRRR we might've missed out on.
(38:26):
So again, we, we, we speak thepraises about the series all the
time, but I just want to dothat because we never want to
watch this.
Forget 20 years ago, 10 yearsago.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
Yeah, and thank you for allowing us one more shot at
a Ghibli film Again, I just I.
Once we got over three formiyazaki films, I was like I I
just think, if there was evergoing to be a time yeah, if
there was ever going to be agood time for us to do this
movie, it was topical because ofeverything I mentioned about
(38:55):
this year and how accessible itis.
It's regarded in film circlesas one of those films you must
see and that sticks with you fora long time, and I would agree
although I don't agree withnecessarily everybody's scores
being like five out of fivesthis is one of the top 10, 20,
30 best films of all time.
I do agree with those twostatements.
(39:15):
This is a movie you absolutelyshould see at least once and it
truly is an experience that,again, you just really should
check out if you can.
So, now that it's accessible, Irecommend you just really
should check out if you can.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
So now that it's accessible, I recommend you do
so.
Yeah, eric, thank you fortalking to me about the themes
and overall reception to thismovie, and fuck you for making
me talk about it for 45 minutes.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Yeah, yeah, I'll just take that one on the chain.
It's fine, it is totally fine,but that's our episode, guys.
There are absolutely some otherthings we could dive into, I
think, with this movie, but Ithink we kind of covered most of
it under this new format philand, honestly, maybe we did kind
of cover everything withoutuncontrollably sobbing.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
So watch something happy next month, please.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Patrons, weight watchers, if you're, please give
us something happy likerespectfully, we just watch
k-pop demon hunters that's true,that is true you're being a
little, I need to watch k-popdemon hunters tonight okay, I
didn't ask to do man of steelthis month.
You did that.
Just remember that.
You followed.
(40:23):
You followed a a uh, fictional9-11 Katrina event with the
Bravely Fireflies, yeah, so Idon't know what to tell you
about that.
And then we're following upwith LA.
Noire Jesus, crazy month, crazymonth.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
So yeah, hey, if the podcast ends after this month,
you guys know why.
You guys know why we're goingto tap out, but we are.
The podcast ends after thismonth.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
you guys know why.
You guys know why we're goingto tap out, but we are
definitely tapping out for thisepisode.
So, Phil, if you want to takeus in the home stretch, I think
this is a great place to end it.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Yeah, thanks so much, guys, for joining us for
another episode of InternationalFeature.
If you're brand new to thepodcast or if you're a returning
listener and you just need areminder of where you can find
everything WaitForPodcastrelated, it is right there in
the show notes under theLinktree link.
You can find us on social media, the most important place to
keep up with us being Instagram,tiktok, our growing Discord
(41:15):
community, where you can takeplace in heated debates that
happened earlier here today, andyou can also keep up with us
over on Twitch, where we arestreaming a lot, including the
aforementioned LA Noire thatEric just talked about.
So if you want to support thepodcast, you can do a couple of
different things, of course.
Youtube like share, subscribeand head over to Apple Podcasts
and Spotify.
Leave us those five-starreviews.
(41:36):
It is incredibly beneficial andhelps get more eyes and ears on
the show.
But if you are looking to getsome behind-the-scenes content
episodes early and also have ahand in influencing our content,
eric will let you know how youcan do all of that before
wrapping us up.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
So that group that Phil is talking about is our
Patreon and patrons of the show.
Like Briar T3, kato, vintageMacaroni, corey from the World
is my Burrito and Nick Casbarro,the author of the Vidularium
series.
They are supporting us everysingle month in return for
behind the scenes and earlyaccess to episodes like this one
.
Earlier this year, we had apatreon month where patrons are
(42:16):
able to pick different shows,movies and or games for us to do
on the podcast, and that monthis going to be October second
time around this year.
We're really excited to beincorporating that with this
particular community.
We'd love for you to be a partof it and give us your
suggestions, but if you're notable to or not in a position to
(42:38):
do so, all the free stuffabsolutely helps and we truly
appreciate you doing that.
With all that being said, myname is Mr Eric Almighty.
That is my co-host, philipFilipino, and, please don't
forget, we release new episodesevery Wednesday and all you got
to do is wait for it.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
This is the Wait For it Podcast.
Welcome to your go-to source for entertainment.
Wait for it.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Gaming.
Wait for it Anime PLUS ULTRA.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Mr Eric Almighty and Phil the Filipino.
Yeah, they've got you covered.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
And all you gotta do is wait for it.
This is the Wait For it Podcast.
Hey, everyone, welcome back tothe Wait For it Podcast.
(00:37):
I am your co-host, phil Barrera, aka Phil the Filipino.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
And I'm your other co-host, mr Eric Almighty, and
for this edition ofInternational Feature, we
decided to tackle either thebest film of all time according
to some people the best Ghiblifilm of all time to some people,
but to most and I think wewould agree probably the saddest
film of all time, and thatmovie is Grave of the Fireflies.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Yeah, we are back to the Ghibli well, and Eric has
agreed that if this does not gowell for me, then I can stop
watching Ghibli films.
I have given it a chance.
I've watched this would benumber four and you guys can
stop coming up to me with well,you should try this one.
(01:22):
I don't want to hear it, Idon't.
I have given this the oldcollege try, as people would say
, so I feel good about at leastgiving it a shot, eric yeah, now
did you like it?
Speaker 1 (01:37):
uh, who knows, am I gonna get yelled at, guaranteed,
because phil?
Phil already wasn't feelinggreat and then he, he
immediately said he's gonnathrow verbal hands at me before
we pressed record.
So you at least, at the veryleast, have that to look forward
to.
But, phil, this is a movie thatwe've circled for quite a long
(01:58):
time because not only does ithave a hundred percent on you
know not every film can say thatit's really regarded as a film
that is one of the best animatedfilms and people just kind of
put it in general films of alltime, when you have like a top
10, top 20, top 30 list.
Grave of the Fireflies,surprisingly, is on there quite
(02:20):
a bit for a lot of differentpeople, quite a bit for a lot of
different people, and it's amovie, phil, that also has just
such acclaim and love fromoutside of the Ghibli-verse,
like for people that don't watchGhibli.
I tend to see them lean towardsthis one out of the catalog the
most, which should be noted,not a Miyazaki film.
(02:40):
So it's going to be veryinteresting, at the very least,
to see what your thoughts wereconsidering that information,
and maybe you leaned a littlebit more positively, or a lot
more positively.
It also could be the same oldstory with Ghibli films for you,
so I'm going to be veryinterested to hear your take on
it.
For me, I definitely am excitedto get into this because, as a
(03:03):
film taker, just like an intakeof film, this is one that has
been on the agenda for quite abit.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Yeah, certainly it is a film you cannot really ignore
.
If you are any type in anyrange of fan of film, you know
this is something that's goingto come up no matter what.
So, yeah, let's get into ithere.
Any brand new listeners orreturning listeners, make sure
you stick around to the end ofthe episode, we'll let you know.
We can find everything Wait ForPodcast related.
But Grave of the Fireflies in1988, directed by Isao Takahata.
(03:34):
Letterboxd synopsis.
In the final months of World WarTwo, 14 year old Saita and his
sister Setsuko are orphaned whentheir mother is killed during
an air raid.
So, Eric, there is a scene inTed Lasso that I watch whenever
I need to conjure up someemotion, when I'm doing
voiceover, and I'll set thescene for this scene.
Ted's mother has come to visithim and he hasn't seen her in a
(04:19):
while Now.
Ted went through a traumaticevent when he was a teenager.
His father passed away and Ted,of course, is a very upbeat and
lovable, charming guy.
With his mom it's totallydifferent.
And finally it comes to blows atthe end of this episode in
season three and Ted goes well,thank you for coming here and
fuck you for not telling me.
And his mom is like kind oftaken aback, like what do you
(04:41):
mean?
I beg your pardon.
He's like thank you for makingmy childhood so memorable and
fuck you for not making yourselfbetter whenever dad passed away
eric.
Thank you for bringing thisfilm to my attention and fuck
you for bringing this film to myattention.
Thank you for making me watch apiece of animated history and
(05:06):
fuck you for making me feel thefeelings I had to feel while
watching this yeah, um, you'rewelcome obviously we're going to
talk freely about this movie.
it's as old as me, being great,for the fireflies book came out
in 1988, so allegedly this isthe first time in a while where
(05:32):
I watched a film, of course, sawthe events of the ending and
you know everything that happenswithin the last 20-30 minutes
of the movie and thenimmediately went back to rewatch
the beginning because of course, then you really understand,
you know what is happening thereand I felt worse about it but I
(05:53):
, like, had to know and I waslike I, I knew I had to
immediately go back and and feeldifferently, knowing what I
knew at the end, which is why Ihad to go back and watch the
beginning and I don't feel goodman.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yeah, weird, I uh, I would agree with that.
It's not a movie I think youprobably want to watch more than
once, but I would say it's amovie everyone should see at
least once, and that that kindof like myth around it or like
that's not even really the wordI'm looking for, but that type
of aura around it is really whatdrove me to wanting to finally
(06:34):
watch it, and there were acouple of factors at play here.
Number one it's not quite alate to the party, because I
feel like a lot of people feelhave not seen this, like even
people that love Ghibli films.
This isn't one that I hear alot in those circles and in
anime in general.
Again, it's really more peoplewho like love film that have
ended up seeing this or puttingthis on their radar.
(06:56):
Number two this movie, as of2025, is more accessible than
ever.
It came to Netflix this year.
It also, around the time ofthis episode, either entered or
is exiting theaters.
So this is going to be a moviethat I think is going to be
talked about even more so nowthan ever, and that's why I
thought it was just such aperfect, especially because of
(07:18):
the setting of the movie, thetheme, the thematics of the film
.
All of that was just a perfectconcoction for international
feature, and although we aregoing to talk pretty freely,
phil, I can already tell we'rereally wanting to hold off on
some of the core spoilers forthat reason, but I think at some
point we probably will have todiscuss that.
(07:39):
So I would just implore you, ifthis is a movie that's been on
your radar at all, there'sliterally no excuse to not watch
it, and I would absolutelyencourage you to check that out
before we really dive into thenitty gritty of the story, the
plot, some of the circumstancesand where our characters end up.
Phil, that out of the waythough, I mean, there's just so
(08:00):
much to discuss, and I think wehave adopted kind of a new
format of maybe picking likethree things each that we wanted
to highlight.
So I think we'll probably dothat for this episode and kind
of see where that takes us.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Yeah, definitely.
I do want to shout out ourfriends Corey and Ivan, because
I did inform them.
You know that I the emotionsthat I was going through
watching this film, and Grave ofthe Fireflies is a very
important movie in the historyof Ghibli because without it it
probably does not exist in theway that it does now.
They wanted to make my NeighborTotoro and I think the studio
(08:39):
essentially stated because theytake place around the same time
frame and the studio essentiallywanted a more realistic
depiction of what it was likeduring this time for people in
Japan.
So they made Grave of theFireflies, which allowed Totoro
to be greenlit.
Now I believe I have thosethings in the correct order,
corey, ivan, please let me knowif I have them a little bit
(09:01):
misconstrued.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
But yeah, like it should be noted as well that
they both released at the sametime.
Yes, yep.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Crazy double feature.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Crazy, double feature yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Grave of the Totoro would be the t-shirt.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Yeah, very much, the Barbie, the Barbenheimer of that
time.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Yeah, grave of the Totoro walked so Barbenheimer
could fly.
But, yeah, also, like youmentioned, it was a very
difficult film to find for along time.
Until very recently it was oneof the most difficult films to
own.
According to Corey barring,this year it had never been
streamed and they went about twodecades in between printings
(09:43):
and it was very, very small uh,that this was um, that there was
.
This was printed as well, so itwas a um.
So if you are thinking aboutseeing it and you have not yet,
it is also releasing in theaters.
On which date eric?
Uh, relative to this episode,because this episode we're
recording this on august 5th andI believe the it comes out in
theaters is it 10th through the12th?
I believe okay, so by the timethis episode yeah, sorry, we'll
(10:06):
have exit yeah, so it's okay.
But yeah, but, if anything, youcan watch it on netflix, so
definitely implore you to dothat.
But yeah, let's uh talk aboutsome takeaways here, eric.
Um, where do I want to go?
First, I would like to know howyou felt, eric, about Seta,
(10:30):
because there is a lot ofdiscourse online about this
character, I think, depending onI don't know, because I see a
lot of arguments from a bunch ofdifferent ways and, at the end
of the day, it's like he's a 14year old kid and they went
through unspeakable tragedy.
(10:51):
And this is another really sadnote.
I learned because this is basedoff of true events from the
director, and I think what Ilearned is that the boat that
Saita and Setsuko's father wason actually had, like, been sank
months beforehand, so he wasalready dead during the events
of this movie.
I was like fantastic.
Thank you so much, corey, fortelling me more information, for
(11:14):
more sad information.
So I think the discourse aboutSaita and his decisions, of
course, the one major decisionthat really doomed them.
Essentially.
I'd like to know how you feltabout that, because obviously,
watching it unfold, it is veryfrustrating, but also it's like
what do you expect out of a14-year-old.
It was just really strange tosee so many people have so much
(11:36):
aggression towards him.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Yeah, I think I'll be careful how much I spoil
because of the theme of thisepisode, kind of featuring this
to people who may not have seenit.
It's going to go to my lastpoint though, so I am going to
revisit that in a little bitmore greater detail.
I would say this movie putsthese two characters, these two
young characters, in justimpossible situations in you
(12:02):
know Japan, with bombingshappening.
It's just like the normal thing, like there's a throwaway line
where the sister is mentioningum Setsuko is mentioning like
she hates going to shelters, andthat was something.
On watching a couple ofdifferent reviews I think it was
Chris Stuckman's review of thismovie where he made a comment
(12:23):
about that Like, oh, wow, like,after watching it you kind of
realize she, she, she's used tothis, this is like what she's
used to, this is the life thatshe's come to know at such a
young age, and I think it'sreally tough because you have
this brother sister dynamic.
That I think works really welland is actually one of my first
(12:43):
points I wanted to touch on washow effective that relationship
is towards the buy-in for you tosit through such turmoil and
emotional angst.
It's done really well and youreally buy into their
relationship, but more so, toyour point, like it's not just a
brother-sister dynamic.
It almost turns into like aparental situation where he has
(13:05):
to take care of her.
And that's what I mean by likean impossible situation, just
like absolutely astronomicalodds against them in the
situation they're in.
And you know, on top of that,on top of that, you got to have
a bitch of an aunt.
You, it's just not right.
It's just not right.
So maybe the ultimate villainin some people's eyes I will
(13:30):
come back to that point becauseI don't think she's as much of a
villain as people maybe took ontheir watch through.
And we'll kind of get into thatwhen we talk about seita's
responsibilities and maybe lackof accountability.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Yeah, to touch on the aunt, it was obviously very
frustrating to watch but at thesame time, in the circumstances
that they are in, I'm notexcusing her behavior, but I'm
sure that behavior was veryprevalent during that time, like
, imagine, you know, I'm sure abunch of nieces and nephews
(14:10):
became orphaned and like peoplethat were already in dire
circumstances, taking onadditional mouths to feed.
Some of the things that she didobviously are very, very
sketchy and, again, I'm not afan of her overall just demeanor
and towards them to begin with.
But there is a like level orlayer of understanding as to
(14:34):
some of her actions, but itdoesn't.
It doesn't mean that we likethem for sure.
Yeah, well.
So, yeah, I'm excited to kindof revisit that here in a little
bit.
Eric, what was your firsttakeaway?
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Yeah, so mine was definitely the sibling
relationship.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Oh, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
But I can go to my second and we can kind of pivot
from there.
Obviously, some of thoseimpossible odds we were talking
about is the war that ishappening in Japan, all of the
bombings and just that wholesetting of time, and this isn't
the first movie to cover thattopic and it hasn't been the
last since.
(15:09):
This isn't the first movie tocover that topic and it hasn't
been the last since, but it'sjust so jarring to see it from,
I guess you would say, theviewpoints of children and it
just, I think, was reallyeffective in that setting.
There were things, phil, thatwere absolutely haunting in this
movie because they chose to bein such a volatile environment,
(15:31):
like the fact that this wasagain we complain about Ghibli
movies, like having to maybewatch a YouTube video afterwards
.
I definitely watched severalafter the movie and hearing
things of like how they would dothe bombs that would just set
up as much fire as possible tothese wooden houses, but a lot
of them wouldn't like combust.
(15:52):
So you even saw in, like thefilm, there are just these
missiles, these flame missiles,lying on the ground everywhere
and obviously there's thecorrelation with fireflies and
you know, we'll kind of talkabout maybe that scene a little
bit, which is devastating, butthat, absolutely being the
thematic focus point, a lot ofpeople look at this as like an
(16:13):
anti-war movie.
I didn't feel that, but what Idid feel it displayed was just
the absolute desecration that'sleft after war has happened and
during, and that absolutely madeit such a gripping story for me
to really be able to enjoy.
Interested to see if you haveany thoughts on that and then we
(16:35):
can kind of lead into yoursecond takeaway.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Yeah, from what I could see is that, like this
really made people.
It was shocking to a lot ofpeople to see just how like,
gritty and realistic this filmwas.
It really made people likealter their sense of how they
looked at animated films.
Because of course you know,when you think about animated
films you think of children'sfilms.
(17:00):
I hope nobody in the 80s tooktheir kids to this wonder, like
not knowing what it was.
I just wanted to google reallyquick, like what movie, what
animated films came out in the1980s?
Like we're talking about filmslike the land before time, which
in and of itself is prettydevastating, but then, as we
talked about my neighbor totoro,um, what were some of the
(17:21):
disney films that came out?
So we have like american taletransformers.
These are the kind of moviesthat probably parents are taking
their kids to and then you seesomething like this.
I certainly am not going to seethis in theaters, like we
alluded to earlier.
I don't think I could sit andwatch this again, let alone
object myself to it on a largescreen, although I'm sure seeing
(17:43):
it in that large screen wouldbe quite the experience.
But yeah, this does actuallykind of tie into my next take.
So this worked out perfectly.
But, yeah, just the devastation.
And not only that, eric, Ithink also the, the non-chalant
chalantness of the adults too,who have, of course, been, are
very used to living in thisworld.
(18:03):
It's it's one thing that we'rebeing, we're watching this
through the eyes of the kids,but when we see certain moments
where it's being, where we see aglimpse of how the adults are
handling it the aunt, the doctor, the subway worker in the very
beginning, like it's just such anot carefree way that they're
going about it, but it's likethis is you know, what do you
(18:24):
expect?
Like this is this is life, andthat is equally as haunting as
what you're discussing too withthe depiction of war.
Mine is these are all tied intoanimation and, of course, with
ghibli, that's just a given atthis point.
No matter what I felt about theghibli films as films, I've
always praised the animation.
You guys can go back and listento those.
(18:44):
My takeaway from animation wisewas the food, because ghibli is
so like everything I mean evenin, you know we're talking about
, of course, um, uh, spiritedaway and some of the and so many
of these other films where foodis such a focus and it's.
It's this delicacy, obviously,and like this really lavish
(19:07):
thing that she like, uh,something to be celebrated, and
here every grain of rice isimportant, everything that they
come across stealing cropshaving to result to catching
their own food a little bitlater in the film, and it was
just crazy to see the use offood done so differently in this
(19:27):
as opposed to, again, howfantastical it is in other
Ghibli projects.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Yeah, I think that's absolutely something that you
could take away from the filmthe lack of fancy visuals and
enticing enchanted worlds.
This movie is not that, which,I guess, is what we were hoping
Walking into this.
I'll kind of add this littlepiece to the discussion before I
(19:53):
get to my final point, which is, phil, this movie is so
different from any ghibli filmyou've seen so far the three
that you've seen spirited away,porco rosso, the boy and the
heron.
For me, this is distinctlydifferent in both the way it
tells its story, the setting,and, while it still has that
Ghibli feel visually like you'rekind of alluding to, it is
(20:17):
different For Takahata's work.
Who is the director for this one?
And by all means, let me knowhow to pronounce the first name,
but I'm going to go with what Ithink I could pronounce.
Takahata is the co-founder ofStudio Ghibli, and this is not
the only Ghibli film he's done.
It is one of the most notableones out of his filmography.
(20:38):
Though, phil, are you gonnaconsider watching another Ghibli
film if it's under his umbrella, or would you give a Miyazaki
film another chance, maybe likea Princess Mononoke with more of
an adult or serious theme?
I want to know where yourthoughts kind of lie, now that
we know you at least havepositive thoughts about this
(20:58):
film.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
I think I would consider it, but not anytime
soon.
So like I'm out of all of them,like the ones that I have been
most open to watching again isPrincess Mononoke, and everyone
keeps saying I'd like Ponyo, somaybe I'll just watch Ponyo, I
don't know.
I don't know or either that orTotoro, just to have the
(21:22):
juxtaposition of both thesefilms coming out at the same
exact time doing that, so yeahyeah, would consider it, but
again I'm not in any rush.
But as far as jumping back intoTakahata's work, certainly
because of how much care he putinto this you can really tell
there is like a there is a senseof personability with this,
(21:46):
that he is tied to this story,knowing that the original author
, of course, based it on, youknow, scenes with what happened
with his own sister, and itseems like takahata really took
the care to portray that here.
So I would certainly considerit, but I'm not in any rush
that's understandable.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
uh, the reason I asked is because, unlike I,
don't think any Ghibli film hasa hundred percent on rotten
tomatoes, takahata has three.
He has Grave of the Fireflies,a film called Only Yesterday,
which released in 1991.
So just a few years after,which has quite a couple of
names in here actually, thosenames can't be right.
(22:25):
And then finally, the Tale ofprincess kaguya, released in
2013, which is a film I've hadon my radar just in general.
So, yeah, that'll be reallyinteresting and I think if we
ever went back to the miyazaki,well, it would be mononoke.
So I will absolutely put thaton my radar at some point in the
(22:46):
future.
Maybe this is something goinginto next year where we look at
revisiting that.
But I wanted to ask thatbecause, phil, this might be the
part where you know we've kindof talked freely about the film
without diving into exactly whathappens at the end, and you
know what we learned at thebeginning of the film.
That's going to be my third andfinal point, so this will
(23:07):
probably be the official spoilerwarning.
If you have not left alreadybecause you haven't seen the
film, this is your time to do so.
Uh, they both die.
They both die.
Obviously, we learn at thebeginning of the film that uh
Saita is going to die and thenwe see uh Setsuko's death later
(23:28):
on due to the malnourishment,and she very quickly passes.
Like it's not something theyreally focus on, which I don't
know that I loved as much.
We'll kind of talk about thathere, maybe in this discussion.
I'm going to go back to what sheasked originally, though, about
Saita and the discourse there.
I mean, it's definitely hisfucking fault.
I mean we, we can cookie cutterhowever we want to cut it.
(23:52):
He is a young child who shouldnot have been in that situation.
But my opinion for what I feelfor that character, is that he
didn't really other than dying,which maybe is the biggest
consequence.
I don't really feel there werea lot of consequences for, like
(24:12):
the absolute mistakes that hemade that led to Setsuko's death
, and it was just stuff like hekind of seemed like almost
privileged in a way when youfirst meet him.
He's got this naval dad youknow naval officer dad.
The way he handles the mom'sdeath not great with Setsuko, I
(24:32):
think uh really wasn't awesome,yeah, cute to feed her like the
drop, the, like the candy dropsor whatever the candy fruit
drops, whatever they were.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Fruit drops.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Thank you, yeah, great to feed her the fruit drop
, the fruit drops.
But again there were like a lotof signs that she was gonna
start to be malnourished andstuff.
And then like with the aunt, Iget she sucks, but kind of
validated a little bit Like I'mnot responsible for y'all,
(25:03):
really, like rations are low andI mean like I get the apology
thing is like probably acultural thing.
But there was almost like asense of pride with Seita where
he just wouldn't do it and thenhe had a chance to go back and
doesn't do it for the sake ofhis sister.
And there's a.
There's a line the auntmentions where it's like you're
old enough where you should becontributing, and I don't ever
(25:27):
feel like he tried to contribute.
You know he's stealing fromcrops, he's doing what he has to
do to live, but it wasn'tenough.
I feel like there were momentswhere this is where the film
kind of lost me towards the end,lost a couple of brownie points
for me.
I love their relationship,brother and sister, but when
that dynamic changes, I can'thelp but to look at Seda with a
(25:48):
different pair of glasses, adifferent pair of goggles on,
and my opinion of him changed bythe end of the film.
Did you feel that at all?
Am I off course at all fromwhat you were feeling when you
saw this?
Speaker 2 (26:03):
It's hard to really like because it was his fault,
this is his fault and and someof the things you're alluding to
, like um not contributing andalso being overly reliant on
money that he did not he that hehad.
He should not have been incontrol over.
(26:24):
Um seems like he also hadaccess to those funds way sooner
, which he he should have done,but at the same time, those
decisions should not have beenleft up to him.
However, in this setting, it'spretty much every person for
themselves.
So again, like I mentionedearlier, like taking in two
additional mouths to feed andthese people, you know, these
(26:48):
kids essentially becoming herresponsibility, which shouldn't
be, I'm sure, culturally, I'mnot sure how it works over there
, and so over here, a sibling ora relative will step up, but
that's in instances where thereis a tragedy, something happens
(27:09):
to their parents and then theygo live with them.
But, like in an instance wherewe're talking about rationing
out supplies, rationing out food, you're living under distress
every single night, waiting forthose sirens to go off.
You got to take care of yourown, take care of your own.
(27:32):
So I understand, like, thefrustration and the discourse
towards Saita, but at the sametime, I am very cognizant of the
fact that he is a kid and heshouldn't have had to make those
decisions, but I mean it.
Just it was what it was.
He had to become that parent.
So, yes, there were manymissteps along the way, but
those were intentional and notsurprising when you think about
it from the lens of oh, this isa 14 year old kid.
(27:52):
He shouldn't have to be makingthose decisions, he was forced
into making them.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Yeah, that's completely valid, completely
valid, and I think you can haveboth sides of the coin as far as
conversations go, and I thinkthat's why I don't view it as
like a full on negative.
But, you know, I did walk awaykind of feeling that way by the
end.
It was like just like damn,like that's just.
I know the circumstances suckedand that that's not something
(28:18):
he should have had to beresponsible for, but he was, you
know, and the actions that he,that he took, the actions that
he took, were definitely whatled to, you know, setsuko
passing away, definitely whatled to you know, setsuko passing
away.
So, uh, and and ultimatelyended up being his demise as
well, which is, I believe, onthe short story it's based on,
is the one major change theymade.
(28:38):
Uh, because obviously, you know, he, he goes on to live and
writes the story, uh, that weended up watching here.
So, phil, what is your finaltakeaway, before maybe we throw
out any other mentions ordiscussions?
Speaker 2 (28:53):
uh, before we scored and everything yeah, the last
thing which was probably sayingthat it's one of my favorite
parts or that I enjoyed is sostrange when it comes to this
film and that'll be reflectedwhen we talk about scores.
But I just really enjoyed thesense of like a spiritual
presence like him re-watchinghis actions and then, like I
(29:16):
said in the beginning, I wentback and immediately re-watched
the beginning with a heavy heartand just absolutely shattered
to pieces and just seeing that,especially like the framing
device with like seita andsetsuko's spirits, kind of like
again rewatching everything, andI like that the use of their
spirits is not used as likesomething in like horror related
(29:40):
.
It was used as a device forlike it's a lingering memory,
like they're still around andand I think it's what makes it
even more haunting is maybethey're re-watching this, all
play back and realizing whatthey could have done differently
and you know things would havebeen.
They still would have beenaround today.
So, as someone who you knowobviously very much leans into
(30:03):
like that spiritual realm, uh,when it comes to interests, I
really like how they use that ina non-horror fashion,
non-traditional horror that'swhat I'll say, because it is
still horrifying and that wasdefinitely one of my favorite
parts of the film.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Yeah, that's great.
That's great.
I think I would agree with that.
I would also add that the useof the fireflies in a lot of the
scenes, like with the firefliesand the bombing, and just like
some of the allegories and thecomparisons there, were just
really, really impactful.
Obviously, I'm going to walkaway from this film, remembering
the you know why do why dofireflies die so soon?
(30:41):
Line that that shit is sad, sadas fuck, so sad.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
I know we don't do a tagline tagline, tagline for
international feature, but itwould just be brave of the
fireflies, sad as fuck pretty,pretty straightforward.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
I mean, we probably could have avoided doing a whole
episode and just said that, butI don't know man it is sad as
fuck, but, like I think what,why we both liked the film
ultimately is that it just has alot more to offer than that.
Is it a movie that I plan onwatching ever again?
No, but I did want to ask youbefore we go to scores Phil, how
(31:18):
did you watch this?
Did you watch this in sub?
Did you watch this in dub?
I watched it dub because if Iever plan to watch both, I can't
watch dub last.
It never works in my favor.
I'm a little bit too overlycritical, so I watched it in Dub
.
But I did go back to pivotalscenes to hear how it sounded in
(31:38):
Sub.
And I will say, if I was toever watch this movie again, it
would be in Sub, because I wasvery interested to hear it in
Japanese, given the topicalnature of the subject at hand.
Where did you end up landing onyour decision to watch it in
either dub or sub?
Speaker 2 (31:57):
I also watched it in dub and had that exact plan to
do what you just said, but Icould not.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Emotionally.
I was like I can't.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
I'll revisit them later, maybe like months down
the line, but I did watch it indub as well.
Yeah, I saw that there wasreally like I can't.
I'll revisit them later, maybelike months down the line, but I
did watch it in dub as well.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Yeah, I saw that there was really like, when we
talk about credits for the film,there's really only four major
characters that are reallycredited in this film or that
are the focal point, and two ofthem are our main characters.
So once I heard enough of theirdialogue I was like I'm going to
probably just commit to thisbecause it's not like sometimes
with dubs they can be overallgreat but a couple of few bad
(32:34):
eggs.
But I tend to find you couldtell really quickly with a
smaller cast whether or notyou're going to vibe with it or
not, and then you could kind ofback out of it early enough into
the watch through where you canstart over without it feeling
like a big chore.
And that's kind of where Iended up.
As far as watching it in dub, Ienjoyed it.
I thought it was pretty welldone.
(32:54):
I think it was a redub from theoriginal as well, if I did my
research correctly.
But with all that being said,phil, we need to talk about not
only how this movie has beenreceived, what our scores are
and where, in the manyinternational features that
we've done so far, this movielands.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Yeah.
So, as you alluded to earlier,eric, as far as Rotten Tomatoes
score, 100% on the tomato meter,95% on the popcorn meter, an
unprecedented 8.5 on IMDB, whichwe always talk about, is
probably the most critical, likethe most difficult one to score
high on, and then currently a4.5 on Letterboxd.
(33:38):
As we mentioned earlier, it'sregarded as one of the best
films of all time and again itis responsible for the Ghibli
that we have here today.
So for those of you that arebig fans of those films, thank
Grave of the Fireflies.
So, eric, I ended up givingthis a four, which is far and
away the highest score I've evergiven any Studio Ghibli project
(34:03):
and, because of where it sitshistorically and because of
those themes that we discussedhere today, it certainly is one
of the most impactful films Ihave ever seen that I hope to
never see again ladies andgentlemen, we got them, we got
them, we got them crazy.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
I do believe that's the only ghibli film that you've
seen that you've given over athree.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
So, like evening them all out, it's still pretty low
as far as overalls yeah, as faras overalls go.
The Firefly is doing a lot ofheavy lifting.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
You definitely made up with that score.
I actually went a little bitlower than you did.
I ended up at a three and ahalf.
This movie is really close tobeing a four for me, like a
movie that I feel like I canshow anybody.
I just feel like the movie Idon't want to say ends
anticlimactically.
But everyone just talks abouthow sad this movie is and I
(35:00):
think, is it fucked up to say itcould have been sadder, like a
little bit sadder?
Is it fucked up to say it couldhave been sadder, like a little
bit sadder?
Is it fucked up to say I'm notreally sure?
Okay, yeah, I'll just have toeat that one.
What more sadness do you want?
So again, some things likeSetsuko's death like just kind
of happening like.
So, like almost nonchalantly.
(35:21):
I was thinking there'd be moreof like a devastating scene.
Obviously, you know, with saita, this is again part of his
character.
He's like very somber, like wedon't ever really like, even
with his mom, with, uh, setsuko,his, I mean, he gets kind of
emotional about his dad in a way, but almost in an angry,
selfish way.
It's.
(35:41):
I think it's saita's characterspecifically that I mentioned
earlier.
I kind of had to dock it a fewpoints and that's what it is.
It's like one.
I do think there are somemoments that could have hit a
little harder for me, and thenSaita's character specifically.
I just maybe upon a rewatch I'ma little bit more forgiving.
This movie's probably a 3.75.
In reality I had to round up ordown and I just chose to round
(36:04):
down because when I walked awayfrom the movie I was thinking
about it actively.
I will always think about thismovie, but then I will always
think about some of the things Ididn't like when it came to
that characterization.
And yeah, that's kind of whereI landed on Grave of the
Fireflies subject to change, butthat's a good score in the
(36:24):
grand scheme of things.
Of where I placed it, it'spretty much smack dab in the
middle of our list.
We've seen 35 or listed 35movies on Letterboxd.
I see that's probably half,almost the exact halfway point.
A little bit is 19.
So right in that little realmin the middle of this list,
right below another war film AllQuiet on the Western Front and
(36:47):
right above, I'm Still here.
This is my highest ranked threeand a half movie and I
re-evaluated it today as I wasreally stewing on it and that's
where it ended up landing in thefinal spot.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Phil, I believe you are somewhere close to that as
well on your list mine's higheractually and we're getting to
the point in this series whereif we there's like a first-time
listener here and they hear likegrave of the fireflies, 19, or
in my case I have it at 13,right behind anasia 2, hi nana
(37:20):
and in front of I'm still hereand old boy, and it's going to
be like people are going to hear13 or 19 for one of the most
critically acclaimed films ofall time and not know the other
movies that are on this list.
So if you are a new listener,we definitely implore you to
check out our letterboxdpersonal pages, both me and
eric's, which is in our linktree.
So, yeah, I have a number 13,um, right amongst those those.
(37:43):
Every other film I mentioned onthat list is also listed as a
four.
So, yeah, that is where it sitsamongst another film I never
want to watch again an old boy,probably, oak chuck.
Yeah, there are some heavyhitters and that's why, like
international film has been sogreat to watch, because it has
(38:04):
been so heavy hitting and ofcourse, not that films that we
have over here on our sidearen't that, but like so many of
them that we just missed out onwhen we were younger.
And it has totally reframed thefilms that we want to watch now
, like 20 years ago we wouldn'thave watched the banshees of
Inishirin or past lives, evenRRR we might've missed out on.
(38:26):
So again, we, we, we speak thepraises about the series all the
time, but I just want to dothat because we never want to
watch this.
Forget 20 years ago, 10 yearsago.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
Yeah, and thank you for allowing us one more shot at
a Ghibli film Again, I just I.
Once we got over three formiyazaki films, I was like I I
just think, if there was evergoing to be a time yeah, if
there was ever going to be agood time for us to do this
movie, it was topical because ofeverything I mentioned about
(38:55):
this year and how accessible itis.
It's regarded in film circlesas one of those films you must
see and that sticks with you fora long time, and I would agree
although I don't agree withnecessarily everybody's scores
being like five out of fivesthis is one of the top 10, 20,
30 best films of all time.
I do agree with those twostatements.
(39:15):
This is a movie you absolutelyshould see at least once and it
truly is an experience that,again, you just really should
check out if you can.
So, now that it's accessible, Irecommend you just really
should check out if you can.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
So now that it's accessible, I recommend you do
so.
Yeah, eric, thank you fortalking to me about the themes
and overall reception to thismovie, and fuck you for making
me talk about it for 45 minutes.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Yeah, yeah, I'll just take that one on the chain.
It's fine, it is totally fine,but that's our episode, guys.
There are absolutely some otherthings we could dive into, I
think, with this movie, but Ithink we kind of covered most of
it under this new format philand, honestly, maybe we did kind
of cover everything withoutuncontrollably sobbing.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
So watch something happy next month, please.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Patrons, weight watchers, if you're, please give
us something happy likerespectfully, we just watch
k-pop demon hunters that's true,that is true you're being a
little, I need to watch k-popdemon hunters tonight okay, I
didn't ask to do man of steelthis month.
You did that.
Just remember that.
You followed.
(40:23):
You followed a a uh, fictional9-11 Katrina event with the
Bravely Fireflies, yeah, so Idon't know what to tell you
about that.
And then we're following upwith LA.
Noire Jesus, crazy month, crazymonth.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
So yeah, hey, if the podcast ends after this month,
you guys know why.
You guys know why we're goingto tap out, but we are.
The podcast ends after thismonth.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
you guys know why.
You guys know why we're goingto tap out, but we are
definitely tapping out for thisepisode.
So, Phil, if you want to takeus in the home stretch, I think
this is a great place to end it.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Yeah, thanks so much, guys, for joining us for
another episode of InternationalFeature.
If you're brand new to thepodcast or if you're a returning
listener and you just need areminder of where you can find
everything WaitForPodcastrelated, it is right there in
the show notes under theLinktree link.
You can find us on social media, the most important place to
keep up with us being Instagram,tiktok, our growing Discord
(41:15):
community, where you can takeplace in heated debates that
happened earlier here today, andyou can also keep up with us
over on Twitch, where we arestreaming a lot, including the
aforementioned LA Noire thatEric just talked about.
So if you want to support thepodcast, you can do a couple of
different things, of course.
Youtube like share, subscribeand head over to Apple Podcasts
and Spotify.
Leave us those five-starreviews.
(41:36):
It is incredibly beneficial andhelps get more eyes and ears on
the show.
But if you are looking to getsome behind-the-scenes content
episodes early and also have ahand in influencing our content,
eric will let you know how youcan do all of that before
wrapping us up.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
So that group that Phil is talking about is our
Patreon and patrons of the show.
Like Briar T3, kato, vintageMacaroni, corey from the World
is my Burrito and Nick Casbarro,the author of the Vidularium
series.
They are supporting us everysingle month in return for
behind the scenes and earlyaccess to episodes like this one
.
Earlier this year, we had apatreon month where patrons are
(42:16):
able to pick different shows,movies and or games for us to do
on the podcast, and that monthis going to be October second
time around this year.
We're really excited to beincorporating that with this
particular community.
We'd love for you to be a partof it and give us your
suggestions, but if you're notable to or not in a position to
(42:38):
do so, all the free stuffabsolutely helps and we truly
appreciate you doing that.
With all that being said, myname is Mr Eric Almighty.
That is my co-host, philipFilipino, and, please don't
forget, we release new episodesevery Wednesday and all you got
to do is wait for it.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
This is the Wait For it Podcast.
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