August 6, 2025 • 51 mins
We investigate Zack Snyder's 2013 Superman origin film Man of Steel, comparing it with the new 2025 Superman movie and reflecting on how its controversial approach continues to influence superhero films a decade later.
• Krypton sequences featuring Russell Crowe and Michael Shannon stand as the film's strongest segments
• Flashback structure feels disjointed and lacks clear purpose or emotional throughline
• Kevin Costner's tornado death scene remains controversial and doesn't make logical sense
• The massive destruction of Metropolis during the climactic battle set a precedent superhero films still react against
• Henry Cavill never got the opportunity to show Superman's hopeful, optimistic side
• General Zod provides a compelling villain with understandable motivations
• The film's neck-snap ending needed more emotional aftermath to be effective
• DC's rushed attempt to create a cinematic universe ultimately undermined what could have been a thoughtful trilogy
• Animated Superman adaptations like "My Adventures with Superman" often capture the character better than live-action
Letterbox'd Synopsis: A young boy learns that he has extraordinary powers and is not of this earth. As a young man, he journeys to discover where he came from and what he was sent here to do. But the hero in him must emerge if he is to save the world from annihilation and become the symbol of hope for all mankind.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to your go-to source for entertainment.
Wait for it.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Gaming.
Wait for it Anime PLUS ULTRA.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Mr Eric Almighty and Phil the Filipino.
Yeah, they've got you covered,and all you gotta do is wait for
it.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
This is the Wait For it Podcast.
Hey, everyone, welcome back tothe Wait For it Podcast.
I am your co-host, phil Barrera, aka Phil the Filipino.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
And I'm your other co-host, mr Eric Almighty, and
for this edition of Late to theParty, we are here to talk about
the new edition of Supermanthat has been released for the
world to enjoy.
Oh wait, no, we're not.
We're actually here to talkabout man of Steel.
Huh Well, phil chose this one.
Guys, not me.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Well, Eric is just such a big fan of Zack Snyder.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Biggest.
So I really wanted to, one ofmy favorite films of all time.
Just going to put it out therenow.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
He just really wanted to.
He didn't say it like outwardly, but I could see it in his eyes
.
When he walked out of 2025Superman.
He was like too bright Toobright.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
I don't like it.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
We need the Snyder cut of man of steel is what we
need is there a snyder cut ofsuperman 2025 is probably what
the snyder fans are wonderingright now.
So, yeah, 2013, man of steelthis is a movie that I never saw
, one because superman as acharacter has always bored me to
death, and we'll talk aboutthat throughout this episode.
(01:42):
And also, this was right in themidst of Marvel ramping up to
its peak.
2012 is when the Avengers cameout, and you know, looking back
on that movie now, has it aged?
Very well, no, but they weredoing something unprecedented.
And then man of Steel comes outand you know they hit the panic
(02:03):
button.
So we're going to talk aboutall of that here today.
We'll probably sprinkle in some2025 Superman, because how are
we not?
And, eric, I also watched someother Superman that we'll talk
about here throughout here inthis episode as well.
So for those of you that are newto the podcast, welcome in.
Thank you so much for checkingus out.
This is Late to the Party, andif you want to see any other or
(02:24):
hear any of the other movies,television shows that we may
have missed out on, make sureyou click the Linktree link at
the end of this episode.
I'll let you know where you canfind everything as well once we
wrap up.
But 2013,.
Man of Steel, eric, let's goback in time.
12 years ago.
Zack Snyder, a young boy,learns that he has extraordinary
powers and is not of this earth.
(02:44):
As a young man, he journeys todiscover where he came from and
what he was sent here to do, butthe hero in him must emerge if
he is to save the world fromannihilation and become the
symbol of hope for all mankind.
So, eric, henry Cavill, amyAdams, russell Crowe, kevin
(03:07):
Costner, for a little bit, didyou see this in theaters?
Speaker 1 (03:11):
I did, I did.
Unfortunately, this is a moviethat I saw in theaters on the
grand stage.
It's probably loud, it's a loudmovie.
Very loud, very bright.
I thought I might have had acase of epilepsy epilepsy at one
point, but I was OK, I was fine, and I then walked out and the
discourse started and we haven'tstopped talking about Zack
(03:32):
Snyder ever since.
So you know, there's, there'sgood and then there's that.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Yeah.
So if some of you Snyder twatsfind this episode, I'm telling
you right now this isn't goingto be for you.
The grip that this man has onhis fans is crazy.
And of course, we did a wholeepisode with Shout to the Short
Box.
We did a whole episode aboutthe Snyder Cut of the Justice
League.
We enjoyed that.
(03:59):
We spoke our praises about ZackSnyder the person, because he
seems like a great guy.
Zack Snyder the director is adifferent story and that's what
we are here to talk about.
So, yeah, once again, I had nointerest in seeing this film.
I haven't seen any of the olderSuperman movies, so he just
always seemed like a very blandand boring character.
(04:23):
And the only time he's reallybeen interesting to me, Eric is
in injustice when he is avillain, because he's not this
like cookie cutter boy scoutthat I assumed that basically
that was the wholepersonification of the character
.
So we're going to try somethinga little bit different for this
(04:43):
episode.
As we try to mix things up alittle bit, Eric, do we want to
go ahead and jump into kind of a?
We're going to do kind of sometakeaways that we both have and
you obviously have.
It's been a while since you'vewatched this.
This is fresh on my mind, soI'm sure you're curious about
how I felt coming away from this.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Yeah.
So me and Phil talked aboutlike why we were going to
actually do this episode and Ithought it would be really
interesting.
Phil brought it up and Ithought it would be really
interesting that, with Supermanhaving just came out which might
have been your inspiration forbringing it up I thought it'd be
really interesting to hear yourperspective as someone who saw
James Gunn's Superman first andthen actually watched man of
(05:21):
Steel.
Now, of course, I do think thatyou know enough of man of Steel
to go in kind of forming anopinion.
So I'm very curious from thataspect how you felt going into
it.
But once we kind of talk alittle bit about the intro,
we're going to talk about howyou got into this and how we got
into this as a group on thisepisode.
(05:42):
I think it'll be really greatfor us to mix things up, and me
and Phil talked about doing justa list, Maybe our top three
takeaways, whether they'repositive or negative.
We're gonna bring up the topthree things that we really
wanted to discuss and then youknow, we could throw it out to
anything at that point before wedo our game at the end where we
compare this movie to otherfilms we've seen.
(06:04):
So, Phil, that's kind of howthe structure of this episode
will go.
But like what was your initialthoughts?
Getting ready to press playwith what you've known, Because
you obviously had to have knownin pop culture some of those big
moments?
Did you feel like that tookanything away, Just so we could
get your state of mind goinginto it and coming out of it?
Speaker 2 (06:34):
So of course I knew the memes.
I've watched many youtubevideos about why the dceu fell
and why it failed a lot of themvery recently, of course, with
essential rebooting now of thedcu with james gunn and the
other guy.
I always forget the other guy'sname, which is very
disrespectful.
They are partners, but JamesGunn is just front and center.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
James Gunn and the other Gunn brother right, is it
Patrick?
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Peter?
That's after the P, the otherguy, so it's obviously on
everybody's mind.
I alluded to the Snyderversefans.
They're still around andpopping up and trying to be loud
, but luckily they're beingdrowned out.
So I had to tell myself I haveto go into this film with an
(07:10):
open mind and not justimmediately hate it based off of
what I knew to begin with.
And I'm very much so glad thatI did, because I did not hate
this the way that I thought.
I thought I was going to belike.
I thought it was going to be achore, especially since it's
what two hours and change, right, couple where it's two, two,
(07:33):
nevermind two and a half hours,two hours and 23 minutes, so not
even two hours and change.
So I had to ensure that I wentinto this with the right mindset
, especially after and alsoknowing this is going going to,
of course, be a very differentexperience than the David
Cornsweat and James GunnSuperman that we just saw, and I
, as I've gotten farther awayfrom that movie, I've liked it
(07:55):
even more.
I will not raise it to a fourbecause it is not, but in terms
of how much I enjoyed that film,I enjoyed it a lot, so big
shoes to fill for sure.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Yeah, and not only did you watch a Superman movie
in 2025, twice in James Gunn'sSuperman, but then you watched
man of Steel man, you are on afucking roll with Superman
content.
Peter Safran, safran, there wego, safran, I think.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Safran, safran, yeah, alsoaffron, I think.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Saffron Saffran yeah, also the guy.
I forgot that James Gunn'sSuperman was supposed to be
called Superman Legacy.
Why did they change that?
I'm not sure, but now we haveto call it James.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Gunn's.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Superman.
So it's probably an ego thing,more than likely.
But yeah, let's jump into thisand we have three things each
that we are going to talk aboutand highlight.
I probably have the easiest jobbecause, as somebody who wanted
to talk about your perspectiveof this film, now I've got the
(08:55):
easy job out of the two of us.
I'm gonna start with the firstone, which I don't know if it's
a popular opinion or not, butit's the way the movie kicks off
and that's with everything todo with krypton.
So film this movie andobviously, guys, spoilers this
movie's been out since what?
2013.
We're going to talk freelyabout the film.
Krypton is probably the coolestpart of the movie.
(09:18):
I actually think, if you lookat the movies that zach snyder
made to that point and has madesince, I genuinely think that
was the movie he wanted to makeand I really liked Russell Crowe
, michael Shannon and just thatwhole environment.
I was vibing with the beginningof that movie.
(09:39):
So I'm kind of curious whatyour thoughts are on that, those
characters and specifically inthe beginning of that like
prequel period, because afterthat we very much get into your
standard origin story.
I mean, superman doesn't evenknow how to fucking fly, so we
get into a whole bunch of stuffbefore we get to the finale.
The beginning to me, though forhow good it was, kind of a mid,
(10:02):
middle and then a verycontroversial ending is always
the thing I go back to is thebeginning of that film and how
it made me feel.
Did you feel like that at all,or what were your takes from the
beginning of it?
Speaker 2 (10:14):
I liked that it wasn't just like pure glass Like
we've seen in, like oldSuperman movies or Superman TV
shows, whatever it may be.
It didn't look like a reallylike overly sanitized room, like
if somebody sneezed in thereyou'd have to like shoot them on
sight, like you can't have anytype of germ.
(10:36):
So I like that it had.
I like it.
It felt like an actual lived inplace and I agree with you, I
would have liked to stay there alittle bit longer.
There's like flying creaturesand very much just look like a,
like a color graded Pandora.
If you just took away all thecolor from the Avatar movies.
There's these crazy creaturesflying all over the place.
(10:59):
You know, obviously there's thepolitical intrigue.
Yeah, now, when I look back onit, like I think that probably
would have cooked.
Like how far back intoSuperman's past do you want to
go?
Because obviously he's just ababy, so it's not like he's
going to be the focus of thatmovie.
So like what people have, whataudiences really been interested
in a Krypton movie?
(11:20):
I don't know, you know, andwe'll never, probably never know
.
But yeah, it was veryinteresting.
You know, it's got like, likeyou said, flying dragons going
around all over the place.
It certainly caught me offguard because I didn't know that
any of that in the beginninghad really existed.
So yeah, I agree, definitely atone setter that was never
(11:41):
followed up on.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Yeah, it's a shame, but I did figure that was
probably out of the whole film.
It was probably the part thatyou saw the least of when it
came to like pop culture or mememoments.
So yeah, the meme moments inthis movie, unfortunately, are
exactly what they are in thefilm.
It's not like Interstellarwhere, like we always saw
Matthew McConaughey crying andthen, when we actually saw it,
(12:03):
or when he's shouting at himself, both of those are like fucking
emotionally stirring,heart-wrenching scenes.
In reality, no, the memes arejust the memes in this movie.
So it was nice to kind of getyour thoughts on probably what I
think is the most positive partof this movie.
But, phil, what is your firsttakeaway from this film?
Speaker 2 (12:24):
So my first is that it felt like the flashbacks were
put out of order and I don'tknow if that was a on purpose
decision or if they didn'trealize that it was done until
the movie had already come out.
Because we're jumping around allover the place one moment, you
know, I think it starts off,he's on the ship right and then
(12:46):
saves the people on the oil rig,and then he's a kid again and
he's discovering his powers forthe first time.
Then he's working at a bar,then he is pulling people out of
a bus like that goes into theriver.
So I did not understand whythose were put in that order.
(13:10):
It's not like there was anytype of specific structure like,
oh, he saved kids from a busand now here he is as an adult,
also good with kids.
It just didn't make any senseto me as to why those were
placed in that order, becausewe've seen movies where
flashbacks are not inchronological order, but there's
usually some sort of point thatthey're trying to make or
(13:33):
something they're trying to setus up for.
That never happened and it wasconfusing.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Very, very confusing.
I'm sure this is a good exampleof movies just relying on it a
little bit too much when it'snot necessary.
I mean, how much do we reallyneed?
I think this movie reallysuffered from the fact that they
felt it needed to be an originstory, and I think that doesn't
help with that pacing again.
It feels like we were seeing andthis was the early signs of
(14:00):
zack snyder not being, I mean,man since 2013.
This man can't make the moviehe wants to make crazy to me,
but this is the first sign thatwe got to see of like him
struggling with the studio andwhat movie he wanted to make,
because I don't think he wasinterested and maybe there's an
interview where he says he is,but I don't think he was that
interested in actually making aSuperman origin story, which is
(14:22):
why I feel like the beginning ofthe movie and the end feel like
sandwiched on top of whateverthis movie actually is, which is
most of its runtime, and forhow controversial the ending is,
at least there's a distinctstyle and taste to it that I
think matches what I kind offelt at the beginning at least.
So anyway, that's my thoughtson it.
(14:42):
I do want to mention thisbefore I forget it.
Zack Snyder at that point hadmade Dawn of the Dead, which
people like 300.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
I like that movie.
I love Dawn of the Dead.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
I didn't say I didn't like it.
I just I don't.
I don't think I ever really Iknow I watched it.
It was one of those movies thatI don't know that I've seen all
the way through, but I'm prettysure I've seen it.
But Dawn of the Dead, peoplelove that movie.
I understand why 300.
I like that movie, people likeit.
Watchmen never watched it.
People enjoy it.
We talked about this the otherday legends of the guardians,
(15:14):
the owls of gahool.
I just added it to the late tothe party list because you gotta
see that fucking movie film Iguess so maybe that is rise of
guardians, I have to.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
I got, you got a lot of did I add rise of Guardians
on here.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Just think I'll erase it later, but yeah, oh, dude,
that's such a great fuckingDecember episode, holy shit.
Anyway, sucker Punch in 2011.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
I didn't watch that Sucker Punch I heard was a big
letdown.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
I heard it was a big letdown, but I remember wanting
to see that movie so at least itgenerated some interest.
And then after that you got youknow BVS, all the shit with
Justice League, army of the Dead, rebel Moon, like come on now.
Army of the Dead's fine.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
It's carried by.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Dave Bautista Shocker .
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Yeah, shocker.
We're at the point now whereDave Bautista can carry your
subpar film to a watchable film,so good for sure which is good
for him, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
But I say all that to say like again, he's, he's made
so many movies up into thatpoint that worked for a lot of
people.
So this just unfortunately,under this DC umbrella
especially, has always been sucha sour taste because I just
don't know that he ever made themovie he wanted to make.
And the one that we got thatwas maybe the closest, is the
(16:29):
one with his name in the titleZack Snyder's Justice League in
2021.
And I like that film.
It's a miniseries.
I like that.
I liked it more than I didn't.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
I know that it's controversial.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
I like it.
I like it.
You're going to have to add itin the B-movie scene here.
You're gonna have to add it inthe b-movie scene here.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Great, awesome, copyright, awesome.
I like dark superman made bysnyder.
We can't, we can't.
The b-movie has consumed us.
The b-movie has derailedmultiple streams.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
It cannot seep into the podcast.
There's no way.
But, phil, I'll divert us backinto where we need to be by
bringing up Papa Kent andtalking about the tornado death
scene.
So this is one of those mememoments.
Just, you know.
You know what the finger means.
(17:25):
Don't use your superpowerswhere nobody will see you to
come save me.
Don't do it.
Don't you fucking do it.
I don't really have anythingelse to provide context for Phil
.
Is it as goofy as the memeworld made it seem?
Speaker 2 (17:41):
It's so bad because it doesn't make any sense and
the fact that he could haveeasily gotten there and back and
, like you said, nobody wouldhave even noticed him.
They forget the dog.
He carries the kid off and hecould have easily carried him,
(18:03):
he could have carried his dad,he could have gone and got the
dog all in just one motion andit just doesn't make any sense
whatsoever.
Maybe this is where jurassicworld got their idea for owen
grady to to use his, his forcehand to stop the raptors.
If one finger could stop,superman five can definitely
(18:25):
stop a dinosaur yeah, it doesn't.
It's just so bad and eventhough we only saw them very
briefly in the 2025 Superman,the emotional through line there
is just so much better.
And again, we spent maybe sixminutes with them in total in
(18:47):
that movie and I just neverreally felt the connection, and
maybe also because I know howMartha is used later on within
these movies, that I just get.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Why did you say that?
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Why did you say that name?
It's his mother's name.
Also, people that I'm going toget off track here.
Some people really liked AmyAdams, louis Lane.
I don't think she's very goodin this and and she's
outstanding in almost everythingis that because you have seen
it probably much better?
Speaker 1 (19:17):
lois lane oh, that's cool.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
I thought you're about to say is it because
you've seen, uh, how it pans outlater?
But yes, I've actually seen twobetter lois lanes this year.
Uh, that I'll tell you abouthere in just a moment.
So so yeah, it just doesn'tmake any sense, and it is I.
I had to let out a chuckle whenI watched it, but also an
internal, just shake my headbecause it was a pretty clear
(19:44):
attempt at farming like forceddrama, and because it's so
stupid it did not land yeah, no,I could.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
I could understand that, phil.
What is your second majortakeaway from seeing this for
the first time?
Speaker 2 (19:58):
yeah, this is probably my biggest, but I do
want to bring it up right now isactually no, I'll switch these
up.
Let's talk about Zod.
I like Zod.
I thought Zod was done very,very well again, character I
don't know really too much about, but when you talk about pure
(20:20):
hatred, you know just hatredthat you really want to admire.
That is definitely I will findhim his last moment between
before being thrown into thenegative zone, whatever.
I don't know if those are thesame thing.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
I don't want to fucking hear pocket universe
again.
Man, I saw that movie twice.
Don't fucking say the wordpocket.
This is why you don't make itso many times I'm gonna talk
that movie down to three.
If you don't stop, I I reallydid not like it, especially the
second time it was like stopdoing it.
But the General Zod, like Iwill find him, is very much the
give me what I want, promo Giveme what I want.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
That's not what I want.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Give me what I want.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Yeah, so very much like that, and I also, you know,
when you're talking about abeing that is clearly at that
point in time, at least in thebeginning of their fight, is
smarter and more savvy thanSuperman.
You know, I like that they wereable to kind of level him down
a little bit, a regroup.
(21:21):
I really just assumed that thisZod fight was the final hour of
this film.
I was like, oh my God, there'sstill an hour in this movie.
Do they fight for an hour?
It was nuts.
So yeah, I really reallyenjoyed that performance and
because we are so a villainperformance can really make or
(21:42):
break a film for us, especiallywhen it comes to superhero
movies.
I thought that was a standoutand wish that that character
maybe could have stayed around alittle bit longer, which you'll
talk about in a moment yeah,well, I mean, do you remember
now that you saw him in theflash?
Speaker 1 (21:59):
so do you understand maybe why they?
They tried to bring him back.
Yeah, they bring him back.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
They bring him back oh, wasn't one of those.
Is it like towards the end ofthe movie?
Where it's like the worst CGIin film.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Where, where, where they're, both flashes are
present.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Batman Supergirl die a whole bunch.
Yeah, they're trying to stopZod.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
All I can think of from that final scene is when
they rotate around the twoflashes and Supergirl and it
looks like a GTA cutscene whenyou're about to start playing as
a character.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
I'll just never understand how the CW version of
Flashpoint could be so good atsuch a low budget.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Not only that, they did Ultimate Earth right, Didn't
they do Ultimate Earth on theCW too, I think so, but that
might have been around the timeI tuned out.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
I'll be honest with you I don't know that you'll
ever do this, but if you everconsidered watching the, Flash
for Late to the Party.
I don't even know Arrow, becauseI think I definitely wouldn't
say the same thing about thefirst two seasons of Arrow.
There are moments in Arrow thatare fantastic, but then there
are some pretty bad slog momentsof just like fuck, let's get
(23:07):
through this.
The Flash from as a whole forthe first two seasons, I would
say pretty fantastic Flashtelevision, yeah, so.
So if you ever considered it,just throwing it out there, just
never know, I would say thefirst two seasons of the Flash
would be very much worth aconversation.
(23:28):
But yeah, I am right there withyou on everything Zod, and
let's keep talking about Zod.
With my third takeaway, I've gotto split this into two parts,
phil.
So the first part of this isthe destruction of Metropolis.
Now, you obviously have heardthat term.
Now that you've seen it, is itdramatic to call it that?
(23:50):
Is it dramatic to say, maybeit's weird that this version of
Superman wouldn't I don't knowprimarily save a lot of people?
Arguably, maybe even a squirrel, maybe even a squirrel and a
dog.
That's kind of theovercorrection I feel that James
Gunn's Superman does, going toleave it alone.
I do want to know, though, whatare your thoughts about hearing
(24:12):
this very controversialdecision that was made in the
movie and how it portrayedSuperman versus what you
actually saw.
Were they one in the same?
Did you feel like it's a littledramatic?
Did you have a differentviewpoint on it?
Like, what were your thoughtsin that big finale where
millions of people had to havedied?
Speaker 2 (24:32):
it's such a crazy whiplash because when they're
fighting in smallville, it feltlike he was going out of his way
to save people and try to stopproperty damage as much as he
could right, like within reason,and then we get to this
bustling city, literally abustling metropolis.
What happens in man of Steel?
(24:53):
You mentioned this the otherday.
We are still feeling therepercussions of it in superhero
films today.
We just saw it no spoilers.
We just saw it in FantasticFour.
It happens pretty much inman2025 to a degree in terms of
trying to keep people safe andthe only real scene I'd I had
actually seen from it like clipshere and there, but I obviously
(25:15):
in like what was it batmanversus superman?
When they're like, oh guesswhat?
Bruce wayne was there, why, whothe fuck knows?
But the level of destructionand just complete disregard of
any human life, I was likepeople have not been over
exaggerating on this for years.
(25:35):
I was like it can't really belike that bad, can it?
It is destruction on par with.
I don't even there's nothing tocompare it to that within film
that I've ever seen outside of,like an act like what was that
really shitty ross?
What is that santa?
What's that really shittydisaster movie.
The rock is in uh san andreas,um san andreas, or like uh 2012,
(26:00):
like that's what's happeningthere.
But it's two guys, two guys ina sky beam we got sky beam.
We got giant robot, we got that.
We got everything like thetrifecta here in the finale of
the film and it's nuts man, andfor them to just be so lazy in
bvs to be like it's an over anewscast.
The city of metropolis has beenevacuated because of this.
(26:25):
No, too late because they weretrying to overcorrect from this,
and we're still paying theprice for it today.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Get to the lifeboats but you're already drowning.
Like that's crazy, like that'sactually crazy.
So the other half of this Iwant to bring up is the ending,
which is equally controversial.
Not just the deaths to thatpoint, but I actually like what
happens with Zod here.
For those of you that haven'tseen the film and you're still
here, here you go.
(26:50):
Zod is trying to kill thoseinnocent people right in front
of Superman.
Superman has him in a headlock,isn't letting go, could kill
him at any moment.
Zod, seemingly knowing this,says you can mourn for these
people if you love them so much,and goes to kill them with his
laser beam eyes, head snap.
(27:12):
Henry Cavill lets out just agrotesque scream and then we go
on to the rest of the movie.
But at least there's thatmoment of him regretting it.
For me that moment works.
If Metropolis doesn't happeneverything that happened
beforehand I think that moviereally works.
If youropolis doesn't happeneverything that happened
beforehand I think that moviereally works.
If you limit the casualties,you show like again, you show to
(27:35):
look at this year's superman, asuperman who's gonna go out of
his way and make sure that everyperson within the realm of
possibility can be saved.
If you really show that andthen you show him having to kill
Zod, and you also instilled, Iguess, what they were trying to
do with versions of Batman inthe past, where, like he will
(27:57):
not kill, like if you tried todo that effectively, that moment
could work very effectively.
It didn't because of that.
So I am curious, phil, I'mtrying to distance those two
things as much as people try toforce them together.
Now, just looking at the Zodmoment, what were your thoughts
on that?
Speaker 2 (28:15):
to kind of wrap up, my third and final takeaway yeah
, it doesn't bother me too muchagain, because Superman as a
character is not something thatis very near and dear to me, but
I also think that it works, notonly because of the metropolis
thing that you mentioned.
I, I do think that's part of it.
I think it works even better ifthere is some.
(28:35):
I'll combine this and I'll addon to your final takeaway.
If there's like a little bitmore introspective other than
the scream, and then we fastforward and he's like working at
the daily planet, and then theguy like want to go to the
basketball game, like they justwent through a catastrophic
(28:55):
event worldwide, actuallyworldwide event, and like who
knows how much time has passed,but it can't have been that much
time time.
And if we had just sat in thatmoment with Superman and like he
is, he is having like this,this real conversation with
himself about what he did.
Sure, but then he's like gladto be here, lewis.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
I mean they're going to go watch a basketball game
after the the destruction ofMetropolis?
I mean they couldn't even holdup.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
They couldn't even hold up watch a basketball game
they're gonna be playing atRucker Park like they're playing
outdoors.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
They couldn't hold a football game for three years.
After Katrina, you're tellingme that's right.
Yeah, they had to move afootball team.
Ridiculous.
Yeah, the second you said it, Ithought of Katrina.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
I don't know why.
I thought you were going tobring up the football game in
the Dark Knight, for Christ'ssake.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
game in the dark night for christ's sake, or the
dark night rises jesus christ ohyeah, no, I don't know.
Hurricane katrina immediatelycame into my mind, which again
kind of explains my feeling onthe destruction of metropolis
hurricane katrina, crazy crazy.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
So, again, if he just sits there, if we like see him
dealing with that grief and thatdecision that he had to make,
then it works much better aswell.
So, yeah, I didn't hate it.
He was certainly not going to.
What did people want him to?
Let those people die?
So, like, what are people upsetabout?
(30:21):
Is it because, again, it'spaired with the destruction of
Metropolis?
Is that why people didn't likeit?
I?
Speaker 1 (30:25):
think it's because it's paired Cause at that.
At that point so many peoplehad died so it just kind of felt
like that was something he wascool with.
And then he turns completelyinto like I don't think you let
out that shriek unless you'rejust like so sad to kill
somebody.
Like it's so against yourmorals like it was grotesque
good screen it was good.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Yeah, and also, are you just going to let somebody
with the power scale of Zodexist in a prison on your planet
?
Are they going to take him to aphantom zone again.
Like what are you going to do?
Like?
Speaker 1 (30:58):
father and mother like son, because they just
literally froze them and tookthem off the planet that was
getting destroyed.
So you know, yeah, Maybe.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
So it seemed like the only sensible thing to do.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
But, again.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
They're trying so hard now to correct that.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
The squirrel scene in this year's Superman was
extremely like on the nose.
It was like okay.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
I thought it was fun, I think because I don't really
care too much for that character.
I just like that.
It was silly and I had a funsilly time.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Yeah, yeah.
What was your third takeaway?
I'm wondering if it's going tobe positive, or did we get past
the positive with the first one?
Speaker 2 (31:44):
I don't know that it's really positive or negative
, because mine is Henry Cavill.
I think got screwed when itcomes to this, because I do
think he is a good Superman.
I think he's a good Superman.
Is he a good Clark Kent?
We never really got to see andthat's a bummer.
We've seen when he pours hisheart into projects.
(32:06):
He's such a good person.
We've heard the stories aboutJames Gunn and Peter Safran
having that conversation withhim because, you know, right
before they took over, dwayneBig Dick Johnson was like I'm
the power of the DC, about tochange or whatever bullshit.
So he begs to bring him back.
He goes on Instagram, says I'mback and then a couple of months
(32:26):
later, like you know, gunn andSaffron take over.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
So I think no, actually I don't know if you've
seen the interviews.
So James Gunn agreed to hisdeal the day that that
announcement came out.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
That's right, that's right, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's
right.
Yep, which is crazy which iscrazy, yeah.
And then they talk to you know,they talk to him.
Obviously he's very gracious.
I would like to see him back insome sort of capacity, whatever
that character may be.
Um, so I think that's just thebummers that we never really got
to see him as clark kent,whereas in this 2025 superman,
(33:01):
you know, we get to see a littlebit of that.
And, eric, you get to see a lotof it in what I've watched the
first few episodes of today,which is my Adventures with
Superman, which is the animatedshow on HBO Max.
It's delightful.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
I've considered watching that.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
That's great.
It is so good.
It's got a great Lewis Lane.
It's got oh God, what's hisbest friend's name?
Who?
Speaker 1 (33:20):
plays like the Jimmy Olsen.
Yeah, it's got a great JimmyOlsen.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
It's got a great Jimmy Olsen.
It's got a bit of an originstory in there as well, but I
wanted to, because I've heard somany good things about this, I
was like I'm going to check thisout.
I watched the first threeepisodes.
It is so good, which shouldn'treally be too surprising.
Animation has always been DC'sthing.
Obviously, the Harley Quinnshow is one of my favorites, so
it's unfortunate that Cavillnever really got a full shot,
(33:46):
because this was not meant to bea cinematic universe.
I think Snyder wanted to dothree movies.
He wanted to do a trilogy offilms similar to Batman.
It was going to be its ownthing, and who knows where we
are now if that had been thecase.
The problem is like we talkedabout, I think, in the pre-show
in 2012.
Oh no, and we're going to getthe episode in 2012.
Oh no, in the beginning of theepisode in 2012, the Avengers
(34:08):
came out and Warner Brotherspanicked and instead of getting
two Superman movies, a Batmanmovie, a Wonder Woman, an
Aquaman and a Flash, we sped ranto the Justice League movie,
which ultimately, was the end ofit, and Batman vs Superman is
probably actually where it allstarts to go downhill, which is
(34:28):
a bummer the fact that we nevergot a solo Batfleck film,
whether or not it was going tobe good, but the fact that we
got Batman before a solo movie.
He was in fucking Suicide Squadand never got his own movie.
I forgot.
He's in that flashback withJoker and Harley until just now.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
So the fact that those movies you know that all
those came out completemismanagement, totally panicked.
They could have taken theirtime and really done this right
and I think Cavill could havedone a good job.
So really my takeaway is kindof overall, looking at Henry
Cavill because we become suchfans of him as just a person and
he is a great actor, that'slike.
My final takeaway is that hedidn't get a good shot, like a
(35:08):
real shot at this.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Yeah, I'm really glad you brought that up, cause I
was wondering how long we weregoing to talk about this movie
without mentioning Henry Cavill.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Which is unfortunate, this movie came out in 2013.
Then, a couple of years later,batman V Superman, then Suicide
Squad the same year, wonderWoman the year after, justice
League the year after, and thenwe got Aquaman, shazam, birds of
Prey.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Aquaman made a billion dollars.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
I get it.
People wanted to see thatcharacter, because that
character at least seemed it'sfun.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
It's fun right, it looks good, it's good.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
One of the only acceptable things about the
Whedon version of Justice League.
But you know, yeah, henryCavill, definitely I feel bad
for the guy, but you know he didhave some shots at it.
I don't know that they alwayslanded.
I think a Ben Affleck solomovie would have definitely
worked with Batman.
I don't love that version ofthe character personally, but I
(36:03):
see the appeal.
I see the appeal.
I definitely think we couldhave gotten that.
There are a lot of things wecould jump into about this movie
.
Phil, I do want to just quicklygo back to what you were
talking about with my adventureswith Superman, which is like
it's kind of like animeinfluenced, which is why it's
very much.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Yeah, it's very heavily influenced by anime.
Something that I definitelywanted to check out.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Yeah, I'm surprised you checked it out.
Honestly, uh, jack quaidsuperman.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
So I love the rookie gotta get jordan on that.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
But you know that was really interesting.
I personally have always beenfor superman and the dc universe
.
The biggest fan of the animatedseries superman, the animated
series batman the animatedseries Batman, the animated
series, Batman Beyond, JusticeLeague Unlimited.
I really hope that what we'reseeing out of 2025's version of
(36:54):
Superman with under James Gunnand the rest of the leadership
now I'm hoping we're going inthat direction Getting a Jon
Stewart is a great start.
Those type of things, becausethat's where I really think DC
was at its best and DC hasalways been at its best animated
.
But can they take theliveliness of those characters
and those worlds and make theminteresting in live action?
(37:17):
That is TBD, but I think we'reat least on the right step
forward for that.
Going back to man of Steel,Phil, is there anything that you
want to throw out there?
I think we kind of coveredquite a bit.
We might stick with this topthree list moving forward
because I think we reallycovered everything that we would
have wanted to talk about on apositive, negative side.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
The final thing and I'm really sorry to end this on
kind of a kind of a negative,because we did just praise Henry
Cavill you don't get to bestoic.
Superman right out of the gate,I don't think Right.
He is so even-tempered as anadult throughout the entire
thing.
We never see like a young,bright-eyed and bushy-tailed
(38:00):
Superman.
He's just kind of boring fromthe very beginning and then that
carries on all the way untilthe Justice League, and that
again is another unfortunatething that we never got to see
him like.
Show some personality yeah thatis like very, very like slightly
sprinkled in there throughoutthis movie, but not enough so
that was really the only otherthing that was like an honorable
(38:22):
mention, top like top numberfour or something like that and
we've seen him in films where hedoes show his personality, like
that's that.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
We've seen him in films where he does show his
personality.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
That's present in other films.
He's a nerd.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
A lot of these things have to do with the direction
of the film and the direction ofthe franchise and the universe
and all of that right.
Where did we land on this film,both on our Letterboxd scores
and also our Late to the Partylist, and how was this movie
received from a score-basedperspective, phil, do you have
all that for us before we jumpinto our personal scores?
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Yeah, a little bit all over the place.
So 57% tomato meter score, a75% popcorn meter score, 7.1
IMDB rating, which is very highfor imdb, as we say quite often.
And eric, this is, I think whenwe talk about movies that are
(39:17):
threes, this is the threeestthree that ever did three,
because that's its average scoreon letterbox.
That that's the score that Igave it, eric, what score?
Speaker 1 (39:32):
did you give it?
I also gave it a three.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Because it's certainly there.
Okay, so there are moments inthis movie I was like this is a
3.5.
And then the rest of it I'mlike that might be a 2.5.
So like when you meet right inthe middle.
So now, when I think of themost average movie that I've
ever seen, it'll probably bethis.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
I would like us to just take a moment to sit in
this, to sit in this moment andunderstand that you can walk
away disappointed from a filmand still objectively say like I
think this movie is.
I could understand why peoplelike it Not to the levels that
some of you Snyder freaks likeit but I definitely feel like
(40:14):
this is a great example of athree for me, because this is a
movie that has a lot that youcan enjoy.
I just mentioned the wholeopening of this movie and the
whole opening period was fuckinggreat.
While it didn't work for me forthe most part, you know the
ending.
I understood that a little bit.
And then you know Henry Cavill.
Like there's not much you canreally take against him other
(40:35):
than the stoicness and maybe thedirection of how they wanted
that character to go.
So there are elements of thismovie that you can absolutely
enjoy and it's not something Iwould tell people to stay away
from necessarily.
I would say form your ownopinion and for me that's like a
three.
For me is like, yeah, Iprobably didn't love this movie
If it was on, probably wouldn'twatch it more than a second or
(41:02):
two.
I wouldn't actually find myselfsitting down to watch this
movie again, but I also wouldn'tnot recommend it to somebody,
and that's kind of where thosethrees lie for me, which is a
really weird spot.
As far as late to the party goes, I regret to inform you this
did barely beat out real steel.
So as far as steel movies, it'snumber one, but it's not much
higher.
Real Steel's at 30.
(41:22):
Halo Forward Unto Dawn is at 29.
Man of Steel is at 28, rightbelow Adventures of Tintin at 27
.
That is where I put it and it'slike right there on the cusp of
like the upper three tier forthis particular series.
Where did it land for you?
Speaker 2 (41:40):
Yeah, 29 for me so, but right behind Raiders of the
Lost Ark and in front ofGuillermo del Toro's Pinocchio,
which are also both threes.
So it is on the same row asReal Steel, and Forward Unto
Dawn.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
So we're kind of like in lockstep.
It's weird.
This has been like a coupleepisodes in a row where, like,
we have the same number almost,but like ratings have been
different for a lot of these.
So this one was the same rating, same placement.
Uh, not much to expect fromthere.
So, phil, unless you haveanything else you want to add, I
will jump into our game that wedo on late to the party called
(42:17):
more like this, where I grabmovies from letterbox and imdb
and I bring up would you ratherwatch man of steel or this film,
phil, anything else you want toadd.
Before we jump into that, no, Idon't think so.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
I guess the only thing I'll add on is like when
we talk about you, you talkabout the future of the dcu.
You know james gunn at the helm, and we do have three examples
of concept here.
Obviously, with superman, wehave peacemaker and we have the
suicide squad film, the reboot,which I know you weren't the
biggest fan of but I very muchenjoyed.
So three for three is prettysolid.
(42:51):
We'll see what happens.
You know we got the Lanternshow.
Jimmy Olsen is getting a TVshow.
We'll see how that goes.
You know, isabella Merced justput her in more stuff.
I'm good with that too.
Remember when Dina killed thepresident of Israel the Superman
.
Dina killed the president ofIsrael in Superman.
Last of Us is getting crazyInsane.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Dina's the most overpowered character in the
Last of Us universe yeah, insane.
All right, let's jump into morelike this.
So I'm going to be taking alook at a couple of different
films that IMDb and orLetterboxd bring up.
You can obviously imagine mostof these, if not all of them,
are probably superhero movies.
So let's just jump into it,phil, and call out the ones that
you may not have seen, but forthe most part, I think this is
probably our comfort zone.
(43:37):
Would you rather watch man ofSteel or Hold on, I unplugged my
headset on accident.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
We're back, are we?
Yeah, I sat on.
I was like I just heardsomething pop.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
that didn't sound good not that you didn't hear me
anymore.
All right, phil, would yourather watch man of steel or the
first wonder woman?
Speaker 2 (44:01):
oh god, knowing what I know now, probably man of
steel, wow.
But the first wonder woman isyou know it's.
It's what people made peoplebelieve.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
So I shouldn't bring up 1984?
.
Speaker 2 (44:15):
Actually I'll say Wonder Woman, because Chris Pine
, chris Pine, the number twoChris on the list.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
Yeah, yeah, okay.
So man of Steel or Wonder Woman1984?
Speaker 2 (44:24):
You don't have to do that.
We saw that in theaters, guys.
We rented out a whole theater.
You didn't have to say thatpart Still.
Don't have to do that we sawthat in theaters, guys.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
We rented out a whole theater.
You didn't have to say thatpart.
Still.
Don't have to bring that upPhil man of Steel or the Batman.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
Oh, the Batman.
I mean, it'd be really hard tosee either one of these movies
because they are so dark, butthe Batman.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
I'll throw out these two because they're not
superhero movies and I don'tknow why they're on this list.
Phil, would you rather watchman of Steel or Oppenheimer?
Speaker 2 (44:56):
why is Oppenheimer?
Maybe because they're bothabout destructive forces
destroying a city the sameamount of people probably died.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
Just one movie didn't show it, yeah anyway, it was
all about the implication theimplication you keep saying that
word.
The next movie, phil, mightsurprise you even more than
Oppenheimer.
Would you rather watch man ofSteel or Jurassic Park?
Speaker 2 (45:26):
I have like a whole Jurassic Park like mural right
behind me.
I have like a pair of JurassicPark shoes and a giant Barbasol
can.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
Why is it on the more like this for IMDB?
Speaker 2 (45:37):
I'm trying to think of any type of connection and
I'm not.
I'm not getting there.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
Would you rather watch?
Speaker 2 (45:44):
No, Hans Zimmer didn't do Jurassic Park.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
That was no John Williams.
Yeah, would you rather watchman of Steel or the Suicide
Squad?
Speaker 2 (45:52):
Which one is that?
James Gunn, oh, the SuicideSquad.
I very much like that movie.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
Yep, that's what I thought.
Would you rather watch man ofSteel or any of the three
Christopher Nolan Batman movies?
Speaker 2 (46:06):
We know the Dark Knight, yeah obviously the Dark
Knight, probably any movies weknow.
The dark night, yeah, obviouslythe dark night.
I probably any of the, well, no, probably two and three, and
then I'd probably watch man ofsteel before I'd watch batman
begins.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
Okay, that's fair.
Yeah, I, I don't think we're ashigh on batman begins as most
people.
That movie is rachel.
Rachel.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
Christopher Nolan filmed these in a cave with a
box of scraps.
Speaker 1 (46:33):
So a couple more movies to throw at you.
These are mostly fromLetterboxd.
Would you rather watch man ofSteel or Black Adam?
Speaker 2 (46:43):
Man of Steel.
We got to finish Black Adam atthe Super Bracket Bros Cinematic
Universe meetup 2026.
Speaker 1 (46:49):
We do not.
Would you rather watch man ofSteel or the first Thor?
Speaker 2 (47:00):
Probably the first Thor, but I wouldn't be happy
about it.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
Would you rather watch man of Steel or the Green
Lantern movie with Ryan Reynolds?
Speaker 2 (47:09):
Man of Steel or the Green Lantern movie with Ryan
Reynolds, man of Steel twice,especially what we know now, boy
, a lot of these people have notaged.
Speaker 1 (47:18):
No, they have not.
And they're both in the GreenLantern.
Would you rather watch?
Speaker 2 (47:27):
Man of Steel or Avatar man of Steel, I don't,
ever, don't, ever.
Insane.
I was at the theater the otherday and my daughter was like
will you take me to the newAvatar movie?
I was like I would rather setmyself on fire.
I'm not taking you to go see.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
They're a decent time .
I don't know what to tell you,man.
I'm sorry, yeah.
And then, honestly, I think Iknow the answers to like almost
all of these here.
I'll throw out this one justbecause it's you.
Would you rather watch man ofSteel or Godzilla, king of the
Monsters?
Speaker 2 (47:55):
Godzilla, king of the Monsters, six times.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
You did give it a three and a half.
You are consistent.
Yeah, that's my list, guys.
There are so many other filmshere, especially MCU films, but
again, those are just the onesthat stood out probably the most
to me for this game.
But yeah, that wasn't too badactually.
I mean there were some obviousones in there, but you chose man
of Steel a couple of times.
(48:24):
Yeah, it's a fine three is three.
That ever did three.
So nothing really more that wecan say beyond that.
I think this was a reallyinteresting perspective for Phil
to be able to give us and anice little reminiscing for me,
which is going to be what someof these episodes are all about.
So, phil, thank you forbringing up man of Steel as the
option here.
Superman is much of the talk ofthe town and maybe not for much
(48:46):
longer.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
Yeah, in a very good place.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
So, yeah, fantastic for a lot of superhero stuff
happening.
That just wrapped up by thetime this episode actually airs.
So if, yeah, we are done withthe talk of man of Steel, I
think we can maybe go watchJames Gunn's Superman one more
time.
Speaker 2 (49:07):
Honestly, I did actually watch Thunderbolts for
the second time and you knowthat movie is much more
enjoyable when you don't haveprobably what's a Snyderverse
bitch yelling in your ear.
You know talking the wholemovie.
So I did up it to a three and ahalf so.
I did enjoy it on a second watchthrough where I could hear what
was going on.
But, yeah, Superman in a goodplace.
(49:27):
Maybe my Adventures withSuperman is coming down the
pipeline.
Season 1 and 2 are both out onHBO, so maybe that's something
we need to jot down.
I definitely plan on continuingto watch that show, but, yeah,
what do you guys think?
What did you think of the newSuperman?
What did you think of theSnyderverse?
We'd love to hear from you.
So make sure you check out theLinktree link in this and each
(49:48):
and every episode.
You'll find all of our socialmedia pages, the most important
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If you want to support thepodcast, you can head on over to
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(50:09):
All of that is extremelybeneficial and we thank you to.
We shout out to all of you thathave done that already, but if
you find yourself maybe wantingsome additional perks from the
podcast, which includes gettingepisodes early, Eric will let
you know about that beforewrapping us up and getting us
out of here.
Speaker 1 (50:27):
Yeah.
So, of course, if you want to gothat extra mile and go beyond
to help us out here at thepodcast, keep the show going and
successful, you can support uson Patreon, where patrons of the
show Briar T3Kato, vintageMacaroni, corey from the World's
my Burrito and Nick Casparo,the author of the Vidularium
series are supporting us aspatrons of the show on that
(50:47):
platform and getting in exchangebehind the scenes and early
access looks at these episodes.
There's a lot more coming uplike Patreon month here very
soon and we've already had oneearlier this year.
So if you want to be a part ofit, you want to recommend stuff
for us to check out and you wantto be a part of a tight knit
community, make sure to head onover to Patreon Again, all of
(51:08):
the information in the shownotes.
But that is the end of thisepisode and, with all that being
said, my name is Mr EricAlmighty, that is my co-host,
phil the Filipino, and pleasedon't forget, we release new
episodes every Wednesday on thepodcast and all you got to do is
wait for it.
Speaker 2 (51:29):
This is the Wait For it Podcast.
Welcome to your go-to source for entertainment.
Wait for it.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Gaming.
Wait for it Anime PLUS ULTRA.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Mr Eric Almighty and Phil the Filipino.
Yeah, they've got you covered,and all you gotta do is wait for
it.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
This is the Wait For it Podcast.
Hey, everyone, welcome back tothe Wait For it Podcast.
I am your co-host, phil Barrera, aka Phil the Filipino.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
And I'm your other co-host, mr Eric Almighty, and
for this edition of Late to theParty, we are here to talk about
the new edition of Supermanthat has been released for the
world to enjoy.
Oh wait, no, we're not.
We're actually here to talkabout man of Steel.
Huh Well, phil chose this one.
Guys, not me.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Well, Eric is just such a big fan of Zack Snyder.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Biggest.
So I really wanted to, one ofmy favorite films of all time.
Just going to put it out therenow.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
He just really wanted to.
He didn't say it like outwardly, but I could see it in his eyes
.
When he walked out of 2025Superman.
He was like too bright Toobright.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
I don't like it.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
We need the Snyder cut of man of steel is what we
need is there a snyder cut ofsuperman 2025 is probably what
the snyder fans are wonderingright now.
So, yeah, 2013, man of steelthis is a movie that I never saw
, one because superman as acharacter has always bored me to
death, and we'll talk aboutthat throughout this episode.
(01:42):
And also, this was right in themidst of Marvel ramping up to
its peak.
2012 is when the Avengers cameout, and you know, looking back
on that movie now, has it aged?
Very well, no, but they weredoing something unprecedented.
And then man of Steel comes outand you know they hit the panic
(02:03):
button.
So we're going to talk aboutall of that here today.
We'll probably sprinkle in some2025 Superman, because how are
we not?
And, eric, I also watched someother Superman that we'll talk
about here throughout here inthis episode as well.
So for those of you that are newto the podcast, welcome in.
Thank you so much for checkingus out.
This is Late to the Party, andif you want to see any other or
(02:24):
hear any of the other movies,television shows that we may
have missed out on, make sureyou click the Linktree link at
the end of this episode.
I'll let you know where you canfind everything as well once we
wrap up.
But 2013,.
Man of Steel, eric, let's goback in time.
12 years ago.
Zack Snyder, a young boy,learns that he has extraordinary
powers and is not of this earth.
(02:44):
As a young man, he journeys todiscover where he came from and
what he was sent here to do, butthe hero in him must emerge if
he is to save the world fromannihilation and become the
symbol of hope for all mankind.
So, eric, henry Cavill, amyAdams, russell Crowe, kevin
(03:07):
Costner, for a little bit, didyou see this in theaters?
Speaker 1 (03:11):
I did, I did.
Unfortunately, this is a moviethat I saw in theaters on the
grand stage.
It's probably loud, it's a loudmovie.
Very loud, very bright.
I thought I might have had acase of epilepsy epilepsy at one
point, but I was OK, I was fine, and I then walked out and the
discourse started and we haven'tstopped talking about Zack
(03:32):
Snyder ever since.
So you know, there's, there'sgood and then there's that.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Yeah.
So if some of you Snyder twatsfind this episode, I'm telling
you right now this isn't goingto be for you.
The grip that this man has onhis fans is crazy.
And of course, we did a wholeepisode with Shout to the Short
Box.
We did a whole episode aboutthe Snyder Cut of the Justice
League.
We enjoyed that.
(03:59):
We spoke our praises about ZackSnyder the person, because he
seems like a great guy.
Zack Snyder the director is adifferent story and that's what
we are here to talk about.
So, yeah, once again, I had nointerest in seeing this film.
I haven't seen any of the olderSuperman movies, so he just
always seemed like a very blandand boring character.
(04:23):
And the only time he's reallybeen interesting to me, Eric is
in injustice when he is avillain, because he's not this
like cookie cutter boy scoutthat I assumed that basically
that was the wholepersonification of the character
.
So we're going to try somethinga little bit different for this
(04:43):
episode.
As we try to mix things up alittle bit, Eric, do we want to
go ahead and jump into kind of a?
We're going to do kind of sometakeaways that we both have and
you obviously have.
It's been a while since you'vewatched this.
This is fresh on my mind, soI'm sure you're curious about
how I felt coming away from this.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Yeah.
So me and Phil talked aboutlike why we were going to
actually do this episode and Ithought it would be really
interesting.
Phil brought it up and Ithought it would be really
interesting that, with Supermanhaving just came out which might
have been your inspiration forbringing it up I thought it'd be
really interesting to hear yourperspective as someone who saw
James Gunn's Superman first andthen actually watched man of
(05:21):
Steel.
Now, of course, I do think thatyou know enough of man of Steel
to go in kind of forming anopinion.
So I'm very curious from thataspect how you felt going into
it.
But once we kind of talk alittle bit about the intro,
we're going to talk about howyou got into this and how we got
into this as a group on thisepisode.
(05:42):
I think it'll be really greatfor us to mix things up, and me
and Phil talked about doing justa list, Maybe our top three
takeaways, whether they'repositive or negative.
We're gonna bring up the topthree things that we really
wanted to discuss and then youknow, we could throw it out to
anything at that point before wedo our game at the end where we
compare this movie to otherfilms we've seen.
(06:04):
So, Phil, that's kind of howthe structure of this episode
will go.
But like what was your initialthoughts?
Getting ready to press playwith what you've known, Because
you obviously had to have knownin pop culture some of those big
moments?
Did you feel like that tookanything away, Just so we could
get your state of mind goinginto it and coming out of it?
Speaker 2 (06:34):
So of course I knew the memes.
I've watched many youtubevideos about why the dceu fell
and why it failed a lot of themvery recently, of course, with
essential rebooting now of thedcu with james gunn and the
other guy.
I always forget the other guy'sname, which is very
disrespectful.
They are partners, but JamesGunn is just front and center.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
James Gunn and the other Gunn brother right, is it
Patrick?
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Peter?
That's after the P, the otherguy, so it's obviously on
everybody's mind.
I alluded to the Snyderversefans.
They're still around andpopping up and trying to be loud
, but luckily they're beingdrowned out.
So I had to tell myself I haveto go into this film with an
(07:10):
open mind and not justimmediately hate it based off of
what I knew to begin with.
And I'm very much so glad thatI did, because I did not hate
this the way that I thought.
I thought I was going to belike.
I thought it was going to be achore, especially since it's
what two hours and change, right, couple where it's two, two,
(07:33):
nevermind two and a half hours,two hours and 23 minutes, so not
even two hours and change.
So I had to ensure that I wentinto this with the right mindset
, especially after and alsoknowing this is going going to,
of course, be a very differentexperience than the David
Cornsweat and James GunnSuperman that we just saw, and I
, as I've gotten farther awayfrom that movie, I've liked it
(07:55):
even more.
I will not raise it to a fourbecause it is not, but in terms
of how much I enjoyed that film,I enjoyed it a lot, so big
shoes to fill for sure.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Yeah, and not only did you watch a Superman movie
in 2025, twice in James Gunn'sSuperman, but then you watched
man of Steel man, you are on afucking roll with Superman
content.
Peter Safran, safran, there wego, safran, I think.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Safran, safran, yeah, alsoaffron, I think.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Saffron Saffran yeah, also the guy.
I forgot that James Gunn'sSuperman was supposed to be
called Superman Legacy.
Why did they change that?
I'm not sure, but now we haveto call it James.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Gunn's.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Superman.
So it's probably an ego thing,more than likely.
But yeah, let's jump into thisand we have three things each
that we are going to talk aboutand highlight.
I probably have the easiest jobbecause, as somebody who wanted
to talk about your perspectiveof this film, now I've got the
(08:55):
easy job out of the two of us.
I'm gonna start with the firstone, which I don't know if it's
a popular opinion or not, butit's the way the movie kicks off
and that's with everything todo with krypton.
So film this movie andobviously, guys, spoilers this
movie's been out since what?
2013.
We're going to talk freelyabout the film.
Krypton is probably the coolestpart of the movie.
(09:18):
I actually think, if you lookat the movies that zach snyder
made to that point and has madesince, I genuinely think that
was the movie he wanted to makeand I really liked Russell Crowe
, michael Shannon and just thatwhole environment.
I was vibing with the beginningof that movie.
(09:39):
So I'm kind of curious whatyour thoughts are on that, those
characters and specifically inthe beginning of that like
prequel period, because afterthat we very much get into your
standard origin story.
I mean, superman doesn't evenknow how to fucking fly, so we
get into a whole bunch of stuffbefore we get to the finale.
The beginning to me, though forhow good it was, kind of a mid,
(10:02):
middle and then a verycontroversial ending is always
the thing I go back to is thebeginning of that film and how
it made me feel.
Did you feel like that at all,or what were your takes from the
beginning of it?
Speaker 2 (10:14):
I liked that it wasn't just like pure glass Like
we've seen in, like oldSuperman movies or Superman TV
shows, whatever it may be.
It didn't look like a reallylike overly sanitized room, like
if somebody sneezed in thereyou'd have to like shoot them on
sight, like you can't have anytype of germ.
(10:36):
So I like that it had.
I like it.
It felt like an actual lived inplace and I agree with you, I
would have liked to stay there alittle bit longer.
There's like flying creaturesand very much just look like a,
like a color graded Pandora.
If you just took away all thecolor from the Avatar movies.
There's these crazy creaturesflying all over the place.
(10:59):
You know, obviously there's thepolitical intrigue.
Yeah, now, when I look back onit, like I think that probably
would have cooked.
Like how far back intoSuperman's past do you want to
go?
Because obviously he's just ababy, so it's not like he's
going to be the focus of thatmovie.
So like what people have, whataudiences really been interested
in a Krypton movie?
(11:20):
I don't know, you know, andwe'll never, probably never know
.
But yeah, it was veryinteresting.
You know, it's got like, likeyou said, flying dragons going
around all over the place.
It certainly caught me offguard because I didn't know that
any of that in the beginninghad really existed.
So yeah, I agree, definitely atone setter that was never
(11:41):
followed up on.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Yeah, it's a shame, but I did figure that was
probably out of the whole film.
It was probably the part thatyou saw the least of when it
came to like pop culture or mememoments.
So yeah, the meme moments inthis movie, unfortunately, are
exactly what they are in thefilm.
It's not like Interstellarwhere, like we always saw
Matthew McConaughey crying andthen, when we actually saw it,
(12:03):
or when he's shouting at himself, both of those are like fucking
emotionally stirring,heart-wrenching scenes.
In reality, no, the memes arejust the memes in this movie.
So it was nice to kind of getyour thoughts on probably what I
think is the most positive partof this movie.
But, phil, what is your firsttakeaway from this film?
Speaker 2 (12:24):
So my first is that it felt like the flashbacks were
put out of order and I don'tknow if that was a on purpose
decision or if they didn'trealize that it was done until
the movie had already come out.
Because we're jumping around allover the place one moment, you
know, I think it starts off,he's on the ship right and then
(12:46):
saves the people on the oil rig,and then he's a kid again and
he's discovering his powers forthe first time.
Then he's working at a bar,then he is pulling people out of
a bus like that goes into theriver.
So I did not understand whythose were put in that order.
(13:10):
It's not like there was anytype of specific structure like,
oh, he saved kids from a busand now here he is as an adult,
also good with kids.
It just didn't make any senseto me as to why those were
placed in that order, becausewe've seen movies where
flashbacks are not inchronological order, but there's
usually some sort of point thatthey're trying to make or
(13:33):
something they're trying to setus up for.
That never happened and it wasconfusing.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Very, very confusing.
I'm sure this is a good exampleof movies just relying on it a
little bit too much when it'snot necessary.
I mean, how much do we reallyneed?
I think this movie reallysuffered from the fact that they
felt it needed to be an originstory, and I think that doesn't
help with that pacing again.
It feels like we were seeing andthis was the early signs of
(14:00):
zack snyder not being, I mean,man since 2013.
This man can't make the moviehe wants to make crazy to me,
but this is the first sign thatwe got to see of like him
struggling with the studio andwhat movie he wanted to make,
because I don't think he wasinterested and maybe there's an
interview where he says he is,but I don't think he was that
interested in actually making aSuperman origin story, which is
(14:22):
why I feel like the beginning ofthe movie and the end feel like
sandwiched on top of whateverthis movie actually is, which is
most of its runtime, and forhow controversial the ending is,
at least there's a distinctstyle and taste to it that I
think matches what I kind offelt at the beginning at least.
So anyway, that's my thoughtson it.
(14:42):
I do want to mention thisbefore I forget it.
Zack Snyder at that point hadmade Dawn of the Dead, which
people like 300.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
I like that movie.
I love Dawn of the Dead.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
I didn't say I didn't like it.
I just I don't.
I don't think I ever really Iknow I watched it.
It was one of those movies thatI don't know that I've seen all
the way through, but I'm prettysure I've seen it.
But Dawn of the Dead, peoplelove that movie.
I understand why 300.
I like that movie, people likeit.
Watchmen never watched it.
People enjoy it.
We talked about this the otherday legends of the guardians,
(15:14):
the owls of gahool.
I just added it to the late tothe party list because you gotta
see that fucking movie film Iguess so maybe that is rise of
guardians, I have to.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
I got, you got a lot of did I add rise of Guardians
on here.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Just think I'll erase it later, but yeah, oh, dude,
that's such a great fuckingDecember episode, holy shit.
Anyway, sucker Punch in 2011.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
I didn't watch that Sucker Punch I heard was a big
letdown.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
I heard it was a big letdown, but I remember wanting
to see that movie so at least itgenerated some interest.
And then after that you got youknow BVS, all the shit with
Justice League, army of the Dead, rebel Moon, like come on now.
Army of the Dead's fine.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
It's carried by.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Dave Bautista Shocker .
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Yeah, shocker.
We're at the point now whereDave Bautista can carry your
subpar film to a watchable film,so good for sure which is good
for him, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
But I say all that to say like again, he's, he's made
so many movies up into thatpoint that worked for a lot of
people.
So this just unfortunately,under this DC umbrella
especially, has always been sucha sour taste because I just
don't know that he ever made themovie he wanted to make.
And the one that we got thatwas maybe the closest, is the
(16:29):
one with his name in the titleZack Snyder's Justice League in
2021.
And I like that film.
It's a miniseries.
I like that.
I liked it more than I didn't.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
I know that it's controversial.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
I like it.
I like it.
You're going to have to add itin the B-movie scene here.
You're gonna have to add it inthe b-movie scene here.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Great, awesome, copyright, awesome.
I like dark superman made bysnyder.
We can't, we can't.
The b-movie has consumed us.
The b-movie has derailedmultiple streams.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
It cannot seep into the podcast.
There's no way.
But, phil, I'll divert us backinto where we need to be by
bringing up Papa Kent andtalking about the tornado death
scene.
So this is one of those mememoments.
Just, you know.
You know what the finger means.
(17:25):
Don't use your superpowerswhere nobody will see you to
come save me.
Don't do it.
Don't you fucking do it.
I don't really have anythingelse to provide context for Phil
.
Is it as goofy as the memeworld made it seem?
Speaker 2 (17:41):
It's so bad because it doesn't make any sense and
the fact that he could haveeasily gotten there and back and
, like you said, nobody wouldhave even noticed him.
They forget the dog.
He carries the kid off and hecould have easily carried him,
(18:03):
he could have carried his dad,he could have gone and got the
dog all in just one motion andit just doesn't make any sense
whatsoever.
Maybe this is where jurassicworld got their idea for owen
grady to to use his, his forcehand to stop the raptors.
If one finger could stop,superman five can definitely
(18:25):
stop a dinosaur yeah, it doesn't.
It's just so bad and eventhough we only saw them very
briefly in the 2025 Superman,the emotional through line there
is just so much better.
And again, we spent maybe sixminutes with them in total in
(18:47):
that movie and I just neverreally felt the connection, and
maybe also because I know howMartha is used later on within
these movies, that I just get.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Why did you say that?
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Why did you say that name?
It's his mother's name.
Also, people that I'm going toget off track here.
Some people really liked AmyAdams, louis Lane.
I don't think she's very goodin this and and she's
outstanding in almost everythingis that because you have seen
it probably much better?
Speaker 1 (19:17):
lois lane oh, that's cool.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
I thought you're about to say is it because
you've seen, uh, how it pans outlater?
But yes, I've actually seen twobetter lois lanes this year.
Uh, that I'll tell you abouthere in just a moment.
So so yeah, it just doesn'tmake any sense, and it is I.
I had to let out a chuckle whenI watched it, but also an
internal, just shake my headbecause it was a pretty clear
(19:44):
attempt at farming like forceddrama, and because it's so
stupid it did not land yeah, no,I could.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
I could understand that, phil.
What is your second majortakeaway from seeing this for
the first time?
Speaker 2 (19:58):
yeah, this is probably my biggest, but I do
want to bring it up right now isactually no, I'll switch these
up.
Let's talk about Zod.
I like Zod.
I thought Zod was done very,very well again, character I
don't know really too much about, but when you talk about pure
(20:20):
hatred, you know just hatredthat you really want to admire.
That is definitely I will findhim his last moment between
before being thrown into thenegative zone, whatever.
I don't know if those are thesame thing.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
I don't want to fucking hear pocket universe
again.
Man, I saw that movie twice.
Don't fucking say the wordpocket.
This is why you don't make itso many times I'm gonna talk
that movie down to three.
If you don't stop, I I reallydid not like it, especially the
second time it was like stopdoing it.
But the General Zod, like Iwill find him, is very much the
give me what I want, promo Giveme what I want.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
That's not what I want.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Give me what I want.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Yeah, so very much like that, and I also, you know,
when you're talking about abeing that is clearly at that
point in time, at least in thebeginning of their fight, is
smarter and more savvy thanSuperman.
You know, I like that they wereable to kind of level him down
a little bit, a regroup.
(21:21):
I really just assumed that thisZod fight was the final hour of
this film.
I was like, oh my God, there'sstill an hour in this movie.
Do they fight for an hour?
It was nuts.
So yeah, I really reallyenjoyed that performance and
because we are so a villainperformance can really make or
(21:42):
break a film for us, especiallywhen it comes to superhero
movies.
I thought that was a standoutand wish that that character
maybe could have stayed around alittle bit longer, which you'll
talk about in a moment yeah,well, I mean, do you remember
now that you saw him in theflash?
Speaker 1 (21:59):
so do you understand maybe why they?
They tried to bring him back.
Yeah, they bring him back.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
They bring him back oh, wasn't one of those.
Is it like towards the end ofthe movie?
Where it's like the worst CGIin film.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Where, where, where they're, both flashes are
present.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Batman Supergirl die a whole bunch.
Yeah, they're trying to stopZod.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
All I can think of from that final scene is when
they rotate around the twoflashes and Supergirl and it
looks like a GTA cutscene whenyou're about to start playing as
a character.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
I'll just never understand how the CW version of
Flashpoint could be so good atsuch a low budget.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Not only that, they did Ultimate Earth right, Didn't
they do Ultimate Earth on theCW too, I think so, but that
might have been around the timeI tuned out.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
I'll be honest with you I don't know that you'll
ever do this, but if you everconsidered watching the, Flash
for Late to the Party.
I don't even know Arrow, becauseI think I definitely wouldn't
say the same thing about thefirst two seasons of Arrow.
There are moments in Arrow thatare fantastic, but then there
are some pretty bad slog momentsof just like fuck, let's get
(23:07):
through this.
The Flash from as a whole forthe first two seasons, I would
say pretty fantastic Flashtelevision, yeah, so.
So if you ever considered it,just throwing it out there, just
never know, I would say thefirst two seasons of the Flash
would be very much worth aconversation.
(23:28):
But yeah, I am right there withyou on everything Zod, and
let's keep talking about Zod.
With my third takeaway, I've gotto split this into two parts,
phil.
So the first part of this isthe destruction of Metropolis.
Now, you obviously have heardthat term.
Now that you've seen it, is itdramatic to call it that?
(23:50):
Is it dramatic to say, maybeit's weird that this version of
Superman wouldn't I don't knowprimarily save a lot of people?
Arguably, maybe even a squirrel, maybe even a squirrel and a
dog.
That's kind of theovercorrection I feel that James
Gunn's Superman does, going toleave it alone.
I do want to know, though, whatare your thoughts about hearing
(24:12):
this very controversialdecision that was made in the
movie and how it portrayedSuperman versus what you
actually saw.
Were they one in the same?
Did you feel like it's a littledramatic?
Did you have a differentviewpoint on it?
Like, what were your thoughtsin that big finale where
millions of people had to havedied?
Speaker 2 (24:32):
it's such a crazy whiplash because when they're
fighting in smallville, it feltlike he was going out of his way
to save people and try to stopproperty damage as much as he
could right, like within reason,and then we get to this
bustling city, literally abustling metropolis.
What happens in man of Steel?
(24:53):
You mentioned this the otherday.
We are still feeling therepercussions of it in superhero
films today.
We just saw it no spoilers.
We just saw it in FantasticFour.
It happens pretty much inman2025 to a degree in terms of
trying to keep people safe andthe only real scene I'd I had
actually seen from it like clipshere and there, but I obviously
(25:15):
in like what was it batmanversus superman?
When they're like, oh guesswhat?
Bruce wayne was there, why, whothe fuck knows?
But the level of destructionand just complete disregard of
any human life, I was likepeople have not been over
exaggerating on this for years.
(25:35):
I was like it can't really belike that bad, can it?
It is destruction on par with.
I don't even there's nothing tocompare it to that within film
that I've ever seen outside of,like an act like what was that
really shitty ross?
What is that santa?
What's that really shittydisaster movie.
The rock is in uh san andreas,um san andreas, or like uh 2012,
(26:00):
like that's what's happeningthere.
But it's two guys, two guys ina sky beam we got sky beam.
We got giant robot, we got that.
We got everything like thetrifecta here in the finale of
the film and it's nuts man, andfor them to just be so lazy in
bvs to be like it's an over anewscast.
The city of metropolis has beenevacuated because of this.
(26:25):
No, too late because they weretrying to overcorrect from this,
and we're still paying theprice for it today.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Get to the lifeboats but you're already drowning.
Like that's crazy, like that'sactually crazy.
So the other half of this Iwant to bring up is the ending,
which is equally controversial.
Not just the deaths to thatpoint, but I actually like what
happens with Zod here.
For those of you that haven'tseen the film and you're still
here, here you go.
(26:50):
Zod is trying to kill thoseinnocent people right in front
of Superman.
Superman has him in a headlock,isn't letting go, could kill
him at any moment.
Zod, seemingly knowing this,says you can mourn for these
people if you love them so much,and goes to kill them with his
laser beam eyes, head snap.
(27:12):
Henry Cavill lets out just agrotesque scream and then we go
on to the rest of the movie.
But at least there's thatmoment of him regretting it.
For me that moment works.
If Metropolis doesn't happeneverything that happened
beforehand I think that moviereally works.
If youropolis doesn't happeneverything that happened
beforehand I think that moviereally works.
If you limit the casualties,you show like again, you show to
(27:35):
look at this year's superman, asuperman who's gonna go out of
his way and make sure that everyperson within the realm of
possibility can be saved.
If you really show that andthen you show him having to kill
Zod, and you also instilled, Iguess, what they were trying to
do with versions of Batman inthe past, where, like he will
(27:57):
not kill, like if you tried todo that effectively, that moment
could work very effectively.
It didn't because of that.
So I am curious, phil, I'mtrying to distance those two
things as much as people try toforce them together.
Now, just looking at the Zodmoment, what were your thoughts
on that?
Speaker 2 (28:15):
to kind of wrap up, my third and final takeaway yeah
, it doesn't bother me too muchagain, because Superman as a
character is not something thatis very near and dear to me, but
I also think that it works, notonly because of the metropolis
thing that you mentioned.
I, I do think that's part of it.
I think it works even better ifthere is some.
(28:35):
I'll combine this and I'll addon to your final takeaway.
If there's like a little bitmore introspective other than
the scream, and then we fastforward and he's like working at
the daily planet, and then theguy like want to go to the
basketball game, like they justwent through a catastrophic
(28:55):
event worldwide, actuallyworldwide event, and like who
knows how much time has passed,but it can't have been that much
time time.
And if we had just sat in thatmoment with Superman and like he
is, he is having like this,this real conversation with
himself about what he did.
Sure, but then he's like gladto be here, lewis.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
I mean they're going to go watch a basketball game
after the the destruction ofMetropolis?
I mean they couldn't even holdup.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
They couldn't even hold up watch a basketball game
they're gonna be playing atRucker Park like they're playing
outdoors.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
They couldn't hold a football game for three years.
After Katrina, you're tellingme that's right.
Yeah, they had to move afootball team.
Ridiculous.
Yeah, the second you said it, Ithought of Katrina.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
I don't know why.
I thought you were going tobring up the football game in
the Dark Knight, for Christ'ssake.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
game in the dark night for christ's sake, or the
dark night rises jesus christ ohyeah, no, I don't know.
Hurricane katrina immediatelycame into my mind, which again
kind of explains my feeling onthe destruction of metropolis
hurricane katrina, crazy crazy.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
So, again, if he just sits there, if we like see him
dealing with that grief and thatdecision that he had to make,
then it works much better aswell.
So, yeah, I didn't hate it.
He was certainly not going to.
What did people want him to?
Let those people die?
So, like, what are people upsetabout?
(30:21):
Is it because, again, it'spaired with the destruction of
Metropolis?
Is that why people didn't likeit?
I?
Speaker 1 (30:25):
think it's because it's paired Cause at that.
At that point so many peoplehad died so it just kind of felt
like that was something he wascool with.
And then he turns completelyinto like I don't think you let
out that shriek unless you'rejust like so sad to kill
somebody.
Like it's so against yourmorals like it was grotesque
good screen it was good.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Yeah, and also, are you just going to let somebody
with the power scale of Zodexist in a prison on your planet
?
Are they going to take him to aphantom zone again.
Like what are you going to do?
Like?
Speaker 1 (30:58):
father and mother like son, because they just
literally froze them and tookthem off the planet that was
getting destroyed.
So you know, yeah, Maybe.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
So it seemed like the only sensible thing to do.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
But, again.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
They're trying so hard now to correct that.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
The squirrel scene in this year's Superman was
extremely like on the nose.
It was like okay.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
I thought it was fun, I think because I don't really
care too much for that character.
I just like that.
It was silly and I had a funsilly time.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Yeah, yeah.
What was your third takeaway?
I'm wondering if it's going tobe positive, or did we get past
the positive with the first one?
Speaker 2 (31:44):
I don't know that it's really positive or negative
, because mine is Henry Cavill.
I think got screwed when itcomes to this, because I do
think he is a good Superman.
I think he's a good Superman.
Is he a good Clark Kent?
We never really got to see andthat's a bummer.
We've seen when he pours hisheart into projects.
(32:06):
He's such a good person.
We've heard the stories aboutJames Gunn and Peter Safran
having that conversation withhim because, you know, right
before they took over, dwayneBig Dick Johnson was like I'm
the power of the DC, about tochange or whatever bullshit.
So he begs to bring him back.
He goes on Instagram, says I'mback and then a couple of months
(32:26):
later, like you know, gunn andSaffron take over.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
So I think no, actually I don't know if you've
seen the interviews.
So James Gunn agreed to hisdeal the day that that
announcement came out.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
That's right, that's right, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's
right.
Yep, which is crazy which iscrazy, yeah.
And then they talk to you know,they talk to him.
Obviously he's very gracious.
I would like to see him back insome sort of capacity, whatever
that character may be.
Um, so I think that's just thebummers that we never really got
to see him as clark kent,whereas in this 2025 superman,
(33:01):
you know, we get to see a littlebit of that.
And, eric, you get to see a lotof it in what I've watched the
first few episodes of today,which is my Adventures with
Superman, which is the animatedshow on HBO Max.
It's delightful.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
I've considered watching that.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
That's great.
It is so good.
It's got a great Lewis Lane.
It's got oh God, what's hisbest friend's name?
Who?
Speaker 1 (33:20):
plays like the Jimmy Olsen.
Yeah, it's got a great JimmyOlsen.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
It's got a great Jimmy Olsen.
It's got a bit of an originstory in there as well, but I
wanted to, because I've heard somany good things about this, I
was like I'm going to check thisout.
I watched the first threeepisodes.
It is so good, which shouldn'treally be too surprising.
Animation has always been DC'sthing.
Obviously, the Harley Quinnshow is one of my favorites, so
it's unfortunate that Cavillnever really got a full shot,
(33:46):
because this was not meant to bea cinematic universe.
I think Snyder wanted to dothree movies.
He wanted to do a trilogy offilms similar to Batman.
It was going to be its ownthing, and who knows where we
are now if that had been thecase.
The problem is like we talkedabout, I think, in the pre-show
in 2012.
Oh no, and we're going to getthe episode in 2012.
Oh no, in the beginning of theepisode in 2012, the Avengers
(34:08):
came out and Warner Brotherspanicked and instead of getting
two Superman movies, a Batmanmovie, a Wonder Woman, an
Aquaman and a Flash, we sped ranto the Justice League movie,
which ultimately, was the end ofit, and Batman vs Superman is
probably actually where it allstarts to go downhill, which is
(34:28):
a bummer the fact that we nevergot a solo Batfleck film,
whether or not it was going tobe good, but the fact that we
got Batman before a solo movie.
He was in fucking Suicide Squadand never got his own movie.
I forgot.
He's in that flashback withJoker and Harley until just now.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
So the fact that those movies you know that all
those came out completemismanagement, totally panicked.
They could have taken theirtime and really done this right
and I think Cavill could havedone a good job.
So really my takeaway is kindof overall, looking at Henry
Cavill because we become suchfans of him as just a person and
he is a great actor, that'slike.
My final takeaway is that hedidn't get a good shot, like a
(35:08):
real shot at this.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Yeah, I'm really glad you brought that up, cause I
was wondering how long we weregoing to talk about this movie
without mentioning Henry Cavill.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Which is unfortunate, this movie came out in 2013.
Then, a couple of years later,batman V Superman, then Suicide
Squad the same year, wonderWoman the year after, justice
League the year after, and thenwe got Aquaman, shazam, birds of
Prey.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Aquaman made a billion dollars.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
I get it.
People wanted to see thatcharacter, because that
character at least seemed it'sfun.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
It's fun right, it looks good, it's good.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
One of the only acceptable things about the
Whedon version of Justice League.
But you know, yeah, henryCavill, definitely I feel bad
for the guy, but you know he didhave some shots at it.
I don't know that they alwayslanded.
I think a Ben Affleck solomovie would have definitely
worked with Batman.
I don't love that version ofthe character personally, but I
(36:03):
see the appeal.
I see the appeal.
I definitely think we couldhave gotten that.
There are a lot of things wecould jump into about this movie
.
Phil, I do want to just quicklygo back to what you were
talking about with my adventureswith Superman, which is like
it's kind of like animeinfluenced, which is why it's
very much.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Yeah, it's very heavily influenced by anime.
Something that I definitelywanted to check out.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Yeah, I'm surprised you checked it out.
Honestly, uh, jack quaidsuperman.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
So I love the rookie gotta get jordan on that.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
But you know that was really interesting.
I personally have always beenfor superman and the dc universe
.
The biggest fan of the animatedseries superman, the animated
series batman the animatedseries Batman, the animated
series, Batman Beyond, JusticeLeague Unlimited.
I really hope that what we'reseeing out of 2025's version of
(36:54):
Superman with under James Gunnand the rest of the leadership
now I'm hoping we're going inthat direction Getting a Jon
Stewart is a great start.
Those type of things, becausethat's where I really think DC
was at its best and DC hasalways been at its best animated
.
But can they take theliveliness of those characters
and those worlds and make theminteresting in live action?
(37:17):
That is TBD, but I think we'reat least on the right step
forward for that.
Going back to man of Steel,Phil, is there anything that you
want to throw out there?
I think we kind of coveredquite a bit.
We might stick with this topthree list moving forward
because I think we reallycovered everything that we would
have wanted to talk about on apositive, negative side.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
The final thing and I'm really sorry to end this on
kind of a kind of a negative,because we did just praise Henry
Cavill you don't get to bestoic.
Superman right out of the gate,I don't think Right.
He is so even-tempered as anadult throughout the entire
thing.
We never see like a young,bright-eyed and bushy-tailed
(38:00):
Superman.
He's just kind of boring fromthe very beginning and then that
carries on all the way untilthe Justice League, and that
again is another unfortunatething that we never got to see
him like.
Show some personality yeah thatis like very, very like slightly
sprinkled in there throughoutthis movie, but not enough so
that was really the only otherthing that was like an honorable
(38:22):
mention, top like top numberfour or something like that and
we've seen him in films where hedoes show his personality, like
that's that.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
We've seen him in films where he does show his
personality.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
That's present in other films.
He's a nerd.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
A lot of these things have to do with the direction
of the film and the direction ofthe franchise and the universe
and all of that right.
Where did we land on this film,both on our Letterboxd scores
and also our Late to the Partylist, and how was this movie
received from a score-basedperspective, phil, do you have
all that for us before we jumpinto our personal scores?
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Yeah, a little bit all over the place.
So 57% tomato meter score, a75% popcorn meter score, 7.1
IMDB rating, which is very highfor imdb, as we say quite often.
And eric, this is, I think whenwe talk about movies that are
(39:17):
threes, this is the threeestthree that ever did three,
because that's its average scoreon letterbox.
That that's the score that Igave it, eric, what score?
Speaker 1 (39:32):
did you give it?
I also gave it a three.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Because it's certainly there.
Okay, so there are moments inthis movie I was like this is a
3.5.
And then the rest of it I'mlike that might be a 2.5.
So like when you meet right inthe middle.
So now, when I think of themost average movie that I've
ever seen, it'll probably bethis.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
I would like us to just take a moment to sit in
this, to sit in this moment andunderstand that you can walk
away disappointed from a filmand still objectively say like I
think this movie is.
I could understand why peoplelike it Not to the levels that
some of you Snyder freaks likeit but I definitely feel like
(40:14):
this is a great example of athree for me, because this is a
movie that has a lot that youcan enjoy.
I just mentioned the wholeopening of this movie and the
whole opening period was fuckinggreat.
While it didn't work for me forthe most part, you know the
ending.
I understood that a little bit.
And then you know Henry Cavill.
Like there's not much you canreally take against him other
(40:35):
than the stoicness and maybe thedirection of how they wanted
that character to go.
So there are elements of thismovie that you can absolutely
enjoy and it's not something Iwould tell people to stay away
from necessarily.
I would say form your ownopinion and for me that's like a
three.
For me is like, yeah, Iprobably didn't love this movie
If it was on, probably wouldn'twatch it more than a second or
(41:02):
two.
I wouldn't actually find myselfsitting down to watch this
movie again, but I also wouldn'tnot recommend it to somebody,
and that's kind of where thosethrees lie for me, which is a
really weird spot.
As far as late to the party goes, I regret to inform you this
did barely beat out real steel.
So as far as steel movies, it'snumber one, but it's not much
higher.
Real Steel's at 30.
(41:22):
Halo Forward Unto Dawn is at 29.
Man of Steel is at 28, rightbelow Adventures of Tintin at 27
.
That is where I put it and it'slike right there on the cusp of
like the upper three tier forthis particular series.
Where did it land for you?
Speaker 2 (41:40):
Yeah, 29 for me so, but right behind Raiders of the
Lost Ark and in front ofGuillermo del Toro's Pinocchio,
which are also both threes.
So it is on the same row asReal Steel, and Forward Unto
Dawn.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
So we're kind of like in lockstep.
It's weird.
This has been like a coupleepisodes in a row where, like,
we have the same number almost,but like ratings have been
different for a lot of these.
So this one was the same rating, same placement.
Uh, not much to expect fromthere.
So, phil, unless you haveanything else you want to add, I
will jump into our game that wedo on late to the party called
(42:17):
more like this, where I grabmovies from letterbox and imdb
and I bring up would you ratherwatch man of steel or this film,
phil, anything else you want toadd.
Before we jump into that, no, Idon't think so.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
I guess the only thing I'll add on is like when
we talk about you, you talkabout the future of the dcu.
You know james gunn at the helm, and we do have three examples
of concept here.
Obviously, with superman, wehave peacemaker and we have the
suicide squad film, the reboot,which I know you weren't the
biggest fan of but I very muchenjoyed.
So three for three is prettysolid.
(42:51):
We'll see what happens.
You know we got the Lanternshow.
Jimmy Olsen is getting a TVshow.
We'll see how that goes.
You know, isabella Merced justput her in more stuff.
I'm good with that too.
Remember when Dina killed thepresident of Israel the Superman
.
Dina killed the president ofIsrael in Superman.
Last of Us is getting crazyInsane.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Dina's the most overpowered character in the
Last of Us universe yeah, insane.
All right, let's jump into morelike this.
So I'm going to be taking alook at a couple of different
films that IMDb and orLetterboxd bring up.
You can obviously imagine mostof these, if not all of them,
are probably superhero movies.
So let's just jump into it,phil, and call out the ones that
you may not have seen, but forthe most part, I think this is
probably our comfort zone.
(43:37):
Would you rather watch man ofSteel or Hold on, I unplugged my
headset on accident.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
We're back, are we?
Yeah, I sat on.
I was like I just heardsomething pop.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
that didn't sound good not that you didn't hear me
anymore.
All right, phil, would yourather watch man of steel or the
first wonder woman?
Speaker 2 (44:01):
oh god, knowing what I know now, probably man of
steel, wow.
But the first wonder woman isyou know it's.
It's what people made peoplebelieve.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
So I shouldn't bring up 1984?
.
Speaker 2 (44:15):
Actually I'll say Wonder Woman, because Chris Pine
, chris Pine, the number twoChris on the list.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
Yeah, yeah, okay.
So man of Steel or Wonder Woman1984?
Speaker 2 (44:24):
You don't have to do that.
We saw that in theaters, guys.
We rented out a whole theater.
You didn't have to say thatpart Still.
Don't have to do that we sawthat in theaters, guys.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
We rented out a whole theater.
You didn't have to say thatpart.
Still.
Don't have to bring that upPhil man of Steel or the Batman.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
Oh, the Batman.
I mean, it'd be really hard tosee either one of these movies
because they are so dark, butthe Batman.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
I'll throw out these two because they're not
superhero movies and I don'tknow why they're on this list.
Phil, would you rather watchman of Steel or Oppenheimer?
Speaker 2 (44:56):
why is Oppenheimer?
Maybe because they're bothabout destructive forces
destroying a city the sameamount of people probably died.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
Just one movie didn't show it, yeah anyway, it was
all about the implication theimplication you keep saying that
word.
The next movie, phil, mightsurprise you even more than
Oppenheimer.
Would you rather watch man ofSteel or Jurassic Park?
Speaker 2 (45:26):
I have like a whole Jurassic Park like mural right
behind me.
I have like a pair of JurassicPark shoes and a giant Barbasol
can.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
Why is it on the more like this for IMDB?
Speaker 2 (45:37):
I'm trying to think of any type of connection and
I'm not.
I'm not getting there.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
Would you rather watch?
Speaker 2 (45:44):
No, Hans Zimmer didn't do Jurassic Park.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
That was no John Williams.
Yeah, would you rather watchman of Steel or the Suicide
Squad?
Speaker 2 (45:52):
Which one is that?
James Gunn, oh, the SuicideSquad.
I very much like that movie.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
Yep, that's what I thought.
Would you rather watch man ofSteel or any of the three
Christopher Nolan Batman movies?
Speaker 2 (46:06):
We know the Dark Knight, yeah obviously the Dark
Knight, probably any movies weknow.
The dark night, yeah, obviouslythe dark night.
I probably any of the, well, no, probably two and three, and
then I'd probably watch man ofsteel before I'd watch batman
begins.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
Okay, that's fair.
Yeah, I, I don't think we're ashigh on batman begins as most
people.
That movie is rachel.
Rachel.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
Christopher Nolan filmed these in a cave with a
box of scraps.
Speaker 1 (46:33):
So a couple more movies to throw at you.
These are mostly fromLetterboxd.
Would you rather watch man ofSteel or Black Adam?
Speaker 2 (46:43):
Man of Steel.
We got to finish Black Adam atthe Super Bracket Bros Cinematic
Universe meetup 2026.
Speaker 1 (46:49):
We do not.
Would you rather watch man ofSteel or the first Thor?
Speaker 2 (47:00):
Probably the first Thor, but I wouldn't be happy
about it.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
Would you rather watch man of Steel or the Green
Lantern movie with Ryan Reynolds?
Speaker 2 (47:09):
Man of Steel or the Green Lantern movie with Ryan
Reynolds, man of Steel twice,especially what we know now, boy
, a lot of these people have notaged.
Speaker 1 (47:18):
No, they have not.
And they're both in the GreenLantern.
Would you rather watch?
Speaker 2 (47:27):
Man of Steel or Avatar man of Steel, I don't,
ever, don't, ever.
Insane.
I was at the theater the otherday and my daughter was like
will you take me to the newAvatar movie?
I was like I would rather setmyself on fire.
I'm not taking you to go see.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
They're a decent time .
I don't know what to tell you,man.
I'm sorry, yeah.
And then, honestly, I think Iknow the answers to like almost
all of these here.
I'll throw out this one justbecause it's you.
Would you rather watch man ofSteel or Godzilla, king of the
Monsters?
Speaker 2 (47:55):
Godzilla, king of the Monsters, six times.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
You did give it a three and a half.
You are consistent.
Yeah, that's my list, guys.
There are so many other filmshere, especially MCU films, but
again, those are just the onesthat stood out probably the most
to me for this game.
But yeah, that wasn't too badactually.
I mean there were some obviousones in there, but you chose man
of Steel a couple of times.
(48:24):
Yeah, it's a fine three is three.
That ever did three.
So nothing really more that wecan say beyond that.
I think this was a reallyinteresting perspective for Phil
to be able to give us and anice little reminiscing for me,
which is going to be what someof these episodes are all about.
So, phil, thank you forbringing up man of Steel as the
option here.
Superman is much of the talk ofthe town and maybe not for much
(48:46):
longer.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
Yeah, in a very good place.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
So, yeah, fantastic for a lot of superhero stuff
happening.
That just wrapped up by thetime this episode actually airs.
So if, yeah, we are done withthe talk of man of Steel, I
think we can maybe go watchJames Gunn's Superman one more
time.
Speaker 2 (49:07):
Honestly, I did actually watch Thunderbolts for
the second time and you knowthat movie is much more
enjoyable when you don't haveprobably what's a Snyderverse
bitch yelling in your ear.
You know talking the wholemovie.
So I did up it to a three and ahalf so.
I did enjoy it on a second watchthrough where I could hear what
was going on.
But, yeah, Superman in a goodplace.
(49:27):
Maybe my Adventures withSuperman is coming down the
pipeline.
Season 1 and 2 are both out onHBO, so maybe that's something
we need to jot down.
I definitely plan on continuingto watch that show, but, yeah,
what do you guys think?
What did you think of the newSuperman?
What did you think of theSnyderverse?
We'd love to hear from you.
So make sure you check out theLinktree link in this and each
(49:48):
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(50:09):
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Speaker 1 (50:27):
Yeah.
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my Burrito and Nick Casparo,the author of the Vidularium
series are supporting us aspatrons of the show on that
(50:47):
platform and getting in exchangebehind the scenes and early
access looks at these episodes.
There's a lot more coming uplike Patreon month here very
soon and we've already had oneearlier this year.
So if you want to be a part ofit, you want to recommend stuff
for us to check out and you wantto be a part of a tight knit
community, make sure to head onover to Patreon Again, all of
(51:08):
the information in the shownotes.
But that is the end of thisepisode and, with all that being
said, my name is Mr EricAlmighty, that is my co-host,
phil the Filipino, and pleasedon't forget, we release new
episodes every Wednesday on thepodcast and all you got to do is
wait for it.
Speaker 2 (51:29):
This is the Wait For it Podcast.
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