The Game Room Where It Happens - Assassin's Creed - The Wait For It Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to your go-to source for entertainment.
Wait for it Gaming, wait for itAnime PLUS ULTRA.
Mr Eric Almighty and Phil theFilipino yeah, they've got you
covered and all you gotta do iswait for it.
This is the Wait For it Podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
Hey everyone, welcome back to the Wait For it Podcast
.
I am your co-host, Phil Barrera, aka Phil the Filipino.

Speaker 3 (00:40):
And I'm your other co-host, mr Eric Almighty, and
for this edition of the GameRoom, where it Happens, we're
going back to our roots andbringing on a guest to talk
about a game.
How long has it been since wedid that?
But we have a pretty heavy taskin front of us and that is
tackling Assassin's Creed, thefranchise as a whole, and I'm
really excited, phil, becausethis is a guest we haven't had

(01:02):
on in so long.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
Man, it has been a day, I think, maybe a day or two
.
It's been an episode sincewe've seen Andrew from your
friendly neighborhood gamers whostole Jordan from us for an
episode.

Speaker 3 (01:18):
That was wild.
Nobody told me.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
Oh, I knew that was coming.
You didn't know that.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
Did you listen to that, eric?

Speaker 2 (01:26):
it's on my queue.
Eric doesn't listen to podcasts.

Speaker 3 (01:28):
That's not true wait till you hear the first question
is there a podcast you listento regularly?

Speaker 2 (01:35):
we're gonna be your waiter for a second.

Speaker 3 (01:37):
Yeah, super Bracket Bros, your friendly neighborhood
gamers, all the top ones.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
I'm not even gonna lie and say that I listen to
everybody's episodes.
I don't.
I don't listen to our podcastever.

Speaker 3 (01:47):
So you have to edit it.
So I get it.
I know you do just unwillingly.

Speaker 2 (01:53):
Yeah, that is.
That is fair.
But, Andrew, good to have youback in and, like you said, Eric
, it's been a while since we hada guest on for this series and
we knew you were the perfect oneto kind of call on, because we
will also be doing an episode onAssassin's Creed Shadows over
on your show.
We haven't worked out thedetails yet as far as dates yet,
but if it has come out by thetime this episode comes out, it
will be in the show notes ofthis episode.

(02:15):
So you know it's all fluid.
We figure that out as we go.
So, Andrew, good to have youhere and excited to talk
Assassin's Creed with you.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
Yeah, I'm glad to be back.
Like you said, it's been toolong.
Congratulations on hittingaffiliate you guys.
You know I saw that recently.
Earlier today I think youposted it, so that's really cool
.
Yeah, I'm always down to talkabout Assassin's Creed.
I feel like I might be one ofthe only people that I know
that's still this passionateabout this series.
It's kind of in some some waysfallen out of grace.

(02:44):
But then you see the numbersfor assassin's creed shadows and
you're like no, there's,there's still a lot of people
that that like this franchise.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
We're just kind of frustrated by the handling of it
by ubisoft assassin's creed isone of those franchises where
you, you are reminded of.
Oh yeah, not everyone is online.
People just like to playassassin's cre, people like to
play Call of Duty, like, andthey're just not talking about
it and they just go on withtheir lives, right?

Speaker 3 (03:09):
Yeah, yeah that was fun, yeah.
And then, like I'm justthinking about it, it's funny we
brought up Jordan.
She probably was the otherperfect person for this episode.
She loves Assassin's Creed Likeshe talks about it obnoxiously,
like she talks about itobnoxiously.

Speaker 1 (03:28):
Spoiler alert for your episode.
Did you guys talk about that onyours?
We, it did come up.
I told her she was like firstplace as far as doing a
retrospective kind of episode onour show because she she seems
to share the passion.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
So yeah, it was cool to find another person that
that's still that into it.
There we go.
Yeah, I'm excited to dive intothis franchise because, like you
said, andrew, it does stillhave a lot of juice, even though
the narrative out there is thatit is in this really bad place,
and I don't think that that'sthe case whatsoever.
So we're going to start fromthe beginning and then come up
to where we discuss Shadows, andif you want a more deep dive
into how we feel about Shadows,make sure to check out your

(04:03):
friendly neighborhood gamers.
We'll let you know where youcan find all of that at the end
of the episode.
And for all you brand newlisteners and returning
listeners, make sure you stickaround to find where you can
locate all the rest of theWayfair podcast content.
So let's go ahead and dive intothe episode, and we're going to
be talking about Assassin'sCreed and Eric.

(04:27):
Normally, I would start theepisode off with a synopsis.
I'm not sure.
Let's just start at the top ofthe Wikipedia page.
Assassin's Creed is a historicalaction adventure video game
series and a media franchisepublished by Ubisoft and
developed mainly by its studio,ubisoft Montreal.
First Assassin's Creed game,which we'll start to start off
with this, came out in 2007 andit's got 14 installments in
total, with shadows coming outhere earlier this year.

(04:49):
So let's start there and I'llthrow it to you first.
Andrew 2007 when did we firstget that trailer for the first
assassin's creed?
It had to have been like 05 or06, so, um, not, we're dating
ourselves here.
Not sure where everybody was inlife at the time, but is that
where you started withassassin's's Creed right when it
came out in 07?
Or did you locate there?
Did you find the series alittle bit later?

Speaker 1 (05:12):
I found the series a little bit later.
2 was actually the first game Iplayed and I actually still
have not played the first game.
It's been on my backlog.
I have the I think 360 versionof it on my Xbox.
I have I have it on Steam, solike I have various places to
play it and I've meant to goback to it multiple times, just

(05:34):
haven't actually set aside thetime to do it.
And yeah, at when that trailercame out, when the series was
first announced, I don't knowthat it was really on my radar.
I think I heard of it because Iliked Prince of Persia.
I had a few Prince of Persiagames on my handheld I can't
remember if it was a DS or whatat the time and I enjoyed that.

(05:59):
And so initially I was like, oh, we're doing some sort of
Assassin's thing.
I wish we were getting morePrince of Persia.
Little did I know that once Iactually dove into the series
and got into it, it would becomeone of my favorites.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yeah, and for my story, eric, I don't know if you
remember this so I preorderedthe collector's edition of the
first Assassin's Creed when itwas coming out and it was
scheduled to release the daythat my daughter's mother was
going to be induced for labor.
So I I remember.
I remember going into gamestopand being like, hey, my daughter

(06:32):
is supposed to be born tomorrow.
Will you hold my collector'sedition?
I've got somewhere to be.
And they're like, oh yeah, yeah, that's probably more important
for you to pick, for you to godo.
It worked out because it didn'thappen until a couple days later
and I was able to pick up thegame and the uh, the collector's
edition.
I can't remember what came inthat collector's edition back

(06:53):
then, but yeah, eric, I meanthis was the time where I think
it was like right before Istarted working at gamestop or
right in the beginning of mygamestop days.
So I'm sure either I waskeeping you up with this game
and what it was looking like, oryou were reading about it in
like Game Informer or something.
So like what were your earlymemories of Assassin's Creed?

Speaker 3 (07:13):
Yeah, I definitely remember not getting onto that
radar for Assassin's Creed untilmuch closer to the second game,
which we'll probably talk atlength for my intro experience,
because when I played the firstone, eventually I was like what,
what is the hype about?
Like, maybe that's a talkingpoint, is like that first

(07:36):
Assassin's Creed to the secondone is such a big difference, in
my opinion, in quality ofgameplay.
But the actual like concept wasreally interesting and I had
stayed, uh, you know, up to dateon that.
But 2007, phil, I mean that wasthe year of Bioshock, uh, halo
three, call of duty four Uh, wewere playing the darkness, I was

(07:57):
playing command and conquerthree.
I mean there's so many gamesthat were coming out there.
I think we've talked about this.
Anytime we reminisce about agame, it really depends on the
year because, depending on theyear, we were either playing
nothing and it was like the onlygame we played that year, or we
were playing so much that wemight have missed it completely

(08:18):
on launch.

Speaker 2 (08:19):
Yeah, when you're talking about the 360 and Halo,
like we weren't doing anythingelse other than playing Halo and
sprinkling in some Gears of War, and so, yeah, it was.
It was tough to find the timeto commit to a single player
game.
So I'll just tell you thisbecause, yeah, the first game it
was a little disappointing.
It's incredibly repetitive.

(08:40):
It's in terms of, like, thegameplay and the story.
I really couldn't tell you toomuch and really what it was and
we will just take thisopportunity to kind of
transition into two is becausethe difference between Altair
and Ezio, in terms of just aprotagonist, is day and night.
Like Altair was very bland, hedidn't really have a whole lot

(09:01):
of personality, and then youbring in Ezio, who is this
really confident playboy, likehe's funny, he's charming, and
that was just a complete 180from Altair.
So when you talk about two so,andrew, that's where you started
.
What was it?
You know, did you hear thatmaybe Assassin's Creed 1 was a
little underwhelming and thentwo was maybe what we expected?

(09:24):
Or how did you jump into thesecond game initially?

Speaker 1 (09:28):
So not to be rude, but I think I'm.
I was a bit younger, still abit younger than you guys.
You're talking about working atGameStop and having a kid Crazy
.
Because I was in my early to midteens when the first one came
out and so I had mostly had likeNintendo consoles growing up.

(09:51):
And then when I started makingmy own money and I was in my
teens, I bought myself an Xbox360.
And then eventually I ended upbuying that Gears of War 360,
the like red one with the customcontrollers and stuff.
The thing was sick.
I wish I didn't get rid of it.
But when I bought my 360, Iwent into GameStop and I bought

(10:13):
Grand Theft Auto 4.
I think I bought Red DeadRedemption.
I bought maybe there might havebeen like one other game and
then I bought Assassin's Creedtwo and I think it was because,
yes, I had heard that it wasbetter than the first one and it
was like a new character andyou know, you didn't have to
play the first one for this oneto really make sense.

(10:35):
And also it was just mostlybecause I was interested in like
the setting.
The style was super cool, likethe hoods and the robes and the,
the secret organizations andall that and stuff, and so I
think it was probably I don'tknow maybe the third out of
those games that I bought that Iactually put in and played and

(10:57):
I was like what is this?
Why am I playing as this dudein the modern day, in this, like
research lab kind of settingthis gray hoodie, yeah.
And then, as it like it got inand you started playing as Ezio.
But then that was also one ofthe things that I thought was
really interesting about it.
It's like, oh, this isn't justlike like there's layers to this
, there's a little bit moredepth and they're trying to do
something unique here.

(11:17):
And then, yeah, it was kind ofall over.
After that.
I fell in love with that gameand with the series and, eric,
you mentioned it, this game.
Anytime there's a conversationabout the sequel being a step up
or whatever, assassin's Creedis brought up, because 2, that
is really where the serieslaunched into being the kind of

(11:41):
massive success that it was.
The first one was kind of likea proof of concept.
I and then two just took it andran with it and I just want to
be clear.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
When the first game came out let's see 2007 I was
how old was I?

Speaker 3 (11:58):
19 okay, it feels like a lot older than me, so
like no, no, no.

Speaker 2 (12:02):
When eric and I met, I was older than him, but he is
now older than me, just based onsaying I believe that I can see
that yeah it's crazy but, yeah,no, um, the second game, you
know, and I enjoyed the firstone.
But also, like, in a time whereI'm not being like overly
critical, like right, like thisis what we're talking about

(12:23):
right now, it's like noteverybody before we started
recording, not everybody ischronically online to complain
about a game.
At the time I was like, yeah,this is fun.
Oh, there's another one comingout with a new, more interesting
character, new, cooler lookingmechanics and the graphics are
better.
Like that was my thoughtprocess in 2009.
Like, oh, we also the setting.
Yeah, setting was really coolin italy.

(12:46):
Much better as well in terms ofjust the environment and
getting to know that.
And we'll talk about, kind oflike just the significance of
the worlds that these games areset in, because it's, they're
incredible.
So, yeah, that big step upthere, eric.
So when did you?
Uh, so, 2009 definitely waswhen in my the beginning of my
gamestop days.
So when?
What led you to give this ashot, since you skipped the
first one?

Speaker 3 (13:07):
yeah, uh, that fucking trailer, that E3 trailer
, like that was.
That was one of the.
I mean, that was the firsttrailer that really caught my
eye.
You know, you've got Eziowalking through like the sea of
red, uh, with everybody withtheir and their coats, and then
he's just walking up to dudesgetting ready to start shit and

(13:29):
then, like you got the asshole,the pompous asshole, coming out
and there's just it's just somany cool things about that
particular trailer that Iremember I was like, yeah, I'm
in, I want to, I want to givethis a shot.
And then the game itself turnedout to be super cool, like
really, really good.
It's a game that went on toarguably change the trajectory

(13:53):
of what Ubisoft was doing.
Assassin's Creed almostunintentionally did that, but
Assassin's Creed 2, I think,created a model that they could
then follow and they haven'tstopped since, unfortunately.

Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah, we'll talk about all those games coming out
like year after year, and thiscame out two years after the
first one, which in and ofitself is pretty crazy.
It just like harkens back to atime Remember, when we got two
Left 4 Dead games inback-to-back years, like that's
what was going on at this timeand they were still really,
really high quality, and thiswas before you know, and this

(14:30):
was around the time.
Also, like far cry 3 comes outand we're like ubisoft is the
best.
Watch the the watchdogs faketrailer comes out like they're
on a roll.
So we was like, oh, they can'tdo anything wrong.
And then you know, we'll talkabout it.
But, yeah, assassin's creed 2 isdefinitely where they cemented
themselves, especially Ezio, asI think when you talk about

(14:51):
video game protagonists, he'she's up.
I think you know, back in theday we did an up high, down low
RIP to that series of likeprotagonists.
I don't remember if Ezio was onyour list, andrew, or not, but
I'm sure he would be on people'slists of like all-time favorite
protagonists.
So, yeah, that was a really,really great time.
And then, leading intoassassin's creed 3, and this was

(15:15):
also a game that very muchbenefited from like really cool
trailers.
Setting was really cool, right,the tomahawk.
I remember that and I don'tremember too much about I mean,
all these have been years over adecade since I played these.
But and we're going to go backto brotherhood and revelations
here in a moment.
But I just want to go in numberorder first, because three.

(15:37):
I remember being one of thefirst instances where I was a
little disappointed.
Eric, did you feel that waywhen three came around after you
know?
Two, then Brotherhood andRevelations.

Speaker 3 (15:49):
Yeah, so I mean at that point you were kind of
alluding to it that the gameswere coming out yearly at that
point.
So Assassin's Creed two, rightafter was Brotherhood, which was
great.
Revelations was forgettable, ifI can remember, like I don't
ever think of revelations, Ijust remember oh, older etzio,
that's all I remember all myyears game and because I didn't

(16:13):
care about the first game makessense why I blocked that out of
my memory.
So assassins creed 3 man again,cool ass trailer.
Uh, love the setting, love,love the setting and the
aesthetic of it.
This is where I think the storystarted to become less
interesting as the games went onfrom this point.

(16:35):
But I would say I was still atleast somewhat interested in the
story.
I think for me and andrew feelfree to chime in here from like
the difference from one to twoto three.
I feel like it was such an upand down experience for the
gameplay.
That's ultimately where it camedown to like.
Assassin's Creed 3 was fun, butI never felt like gameplay wise

(16:58):
.

Speaker 1 (16:58):
It ever hit the heights of two yeah, I could see
that they were doing a lot ofinteresting things in three.
Like I remember seeing thetrailer and being like how are
we supposed to parkour in thewoods?
That doesn't make any sense.
So like I remember being alittle bit apprehensive by the
setting, which was therevolutionary war, in case you

(17:18):
don't know what we're talkingabout.
But I think, gameplay wise Ithought it was fine.
Like it felt a little bit morepolished than especially like
Revelations.
That one's forgotten aboutimpartially was because that
game was like super rushed andwas maybe even supposed to be
DLC Like I can't remember allthe details of it, tried really

(17:48):
hard to kind of get into morecharacter stuff and storytelling
which I think overall was cool,like all the stuff with Hathem,
and then you play for like Idon't know how many hours and
you find out you're playing as aTemplar like that was really
cool.
But paired with that you alsoplayed as Kid Connor for what
felt like an eternity at thebeginning of that game and so
they just had some weird pacingissues before you finally were

(18:10):
like into the like you know,hanging out with George
Washington and stuff, and thatgame actually introduced to the
ship combat that would then goon to like make black flag what
it was, and so it did some coolthings and had a lot of cool
ideas.
It had, like the base buildingstuff that you were doing, a lot

(18:31):
of the, the ideas that they'velike kept evolving and iterating
on even to this day, but youcould tell that they were still
figuring it out like thegameplay was.
I think they maybe refined theum, the like hand-to-hand combat
a little bit, because it'spretty janky.
Going back to those older games,the amount of buttons they want

(18:53):
you to push to be able to likedo things.
So they maybe simplified that alittle in three.
I can't really remember, butthey were trying some different
things and I think the overallexperience suffered for it, but
it was was really it's a game, Ithink, that gets hated on more
than it deserves.
Like, I think it's it's a finegame and people just like like

(19:13):
to dog on it, but it'sdefinitely, uh, it's, it's
flawed.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
We'll say it's flawed it's super ambitious, yeah, and
I think what really is going tomake itself evident here in
terms of which of these gamesreally appeal to us is going to
come down to setting, and youknow, the revolutionary war,
like you said, kind of eventhough this is simplifying it

(19:40):
like running through the woodsand man, it's really great that
all these triangle-shaped treesare in the Northeast.
How convenient that they grewthis way.
Going from that like in termsof it was a little bit of a like
within the game, like acultural whiplash.
We had gotten used to threegames of what the Assassin's

(20:02):
Creed 2 team had done betweenEzio and Altair to a lesser
extent, and then bringing it toyou know, the Revolutionary War,
and then still continuing totie in Desmond, where I think
people at this point as well areexpecting some sort of
interesting payoff with Desmond,and it's still not happening

(20:24):
and he's getting a little bitmore annoying and frustrating as
a protagonist, if you can evencall him that.
So that's one of the reasons,I'm sure as well.
People were kind of like, uh-oh, so should we be a little
concerned about Assassin's Creed?

Speaker 1 (20:39):
so but they did wrap up the Desmond storyline in
three, which was, you know, forwhatever that was, you know, I
think people wish that he was.
Well, he kind of is back, butanyways, they kind of wrapped up
like the Desmond arc and allthat, so like it was a little

(21:00):
bow on like that era, thattrilogy, if you will, A little
bow on like that era, thattrilogy, if you will.
But yeah, I definitely agree,he was getting, he was getting a
little bit tired by the end ofthat game, by the time we were
playing.

Speaker 2 (21:13):
three is three where he murders someone.

Speaker 1 (21:15):
I honestly can barely remember his storyline other
than the ending in that game.

Speaker 2 (21:21):
So and like why give us those parts where you're, you
know he's like implementing theassassin stuff in modern day.
And then there was no payoffand I don't know that I ever
really wanted that.
I think younger me was like,yeah, I want modern day
assassin's creed.
Now I'm like no, I don't wantany of that.
That's not fun.
Unless you put in like a reallycool.
It would have to be again rightsetting.

(21:42):
It had to be the right city,the right setting.
But but what?
This game?

Speaker 1 (21:45):
did show, like, as far as setting was, they're
willing to experiment, like Iplaying through the first one in
, like the middle east, whichwe're seeing, the first one in
the middle east, and thenplaying through the one like in
italy and rome, and all that.
It kind of felt like that waswhere the series lived.
And then they're like no, we'redoing the revolutionary war and
it's like okay, they can doanything at this point and yeah,

(22:06):
they have, arguably to thedetriment of the assassin's
creed story, but we have gottensome really cool settings yeah,
for sure, eric.

Speaker 2 (22:16):
I mean, when it comes to you know, like, like I said,
do you think there's anycredence to that?
Like I said, with a, in termsof just a, it seems like a sharp
left from you know, from Italy,and then into the rebel, like
you said, hanging out withGeorge Washington.

Speaker 3 (22:32):
Yeah, yeah, I mean no music in sight.

Speaker 2 (22:35):
No Alexander Hamilton anywhere to be found.

Speaker 3 (22:37):
Nowhere to be found.
No, that would have been.
That would have been crazy,would have been crazy.
So what we're gonna see here isthat I feel like from this
point these games start to bemore about the setting than the
actual like synchronous story.
And it feels like around thistime and that's definitely how I

(22:58):
felt, with black flag, kind ofskipping ahead that's that's
where I really start to leavethis franchise.
Personally, the reason for thatwas because that's kind of how
it started to feel.
Like it didn't feel that waywhen I played two.
But then when you are at fourand you kind of reflect
backwards, you're like oh well,other than Brotherhood and
Revelations, which you knowagain, we can argue pretty much

(23:21):
just Assassin's Creed two.
They're all bunched together.
These are period pieces andthey're trying to intertwine
them into a narrative modern day, but that's not really fully
interesting to me.
And then they kind of abandonthat or, as Andrew Moore put it
better, they put a bow on thatand then move forward.
So I think for me, like once Igot into the next game, that's

(23:44):
where I started to realize like,oh OK, well, like it'd be nice
to play all these games and stayon top of it.
But really, if I'm just herefor the gameplay or the vibes,
like, I'm just going to probablyjump into the ones that I
really want to.
And before I knew it, years hadpassed and I just never
returned to the franchise it,years had passed and I just

(24:07):
never returned to the franchise.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
Yeah, I do want to back up just a little bit,
because Ezio, I think still tothis day and well, he's the only
Ezio and Altair, I think,really are the only returning
protagonists that we have, right, yeah, looking at at this here,
for the most part, so the factthat he got a, he also got along
with Desmondmond they put a bowon his story and he is this
legacy character.
And because Brotherhood onceagain just improved upon what

(24:32):
they were doing in Assassin'sCreed 2 in almost every single
way, and we weren't sick of theRenaissance era either.
So let's talk about that one,andrew, because I think between,
probably between Brotherhoodand Black Flag like those are
the two that are in contentionof, I have to decide which one I
like more yeah, brotherhood isdefinitely.

Speaker 1 (24:54):
It feels like the peak of that trilogy.
It was.
They took everything that wasgood about two and then they
refined it and then they gaveyou some other really cool stuff
.
You had like Leonardo daVinci's devices and things I
think were probably in bothgames, but they did the um.
This is where they startedadding your like actual

(25:15):
brotherhood, where you were likerecruiting people back into the
brotherhood.
They took etzio.
You know he kind of has like abatman story where he's this
young, carefree guy he's a lotolder than batman was when he
went through his trauma but thenhe like goes through this
life-altering event with, likehis father dying and all this
stuff and it.
You know he has to like man upessentially and in brotherhood

(25:37):
he is kind of peak as far aslike his age, his maturity, his
goals, like he is masterassassin, all this and and then
in Revelations it was kind oflike his last ride kind of a
thing and kind of tying in hisdiscovery of Altair, which is
cool.
But, like we said, the gameplayjust wasn't there.
As far as playing Brotherhoodand then going to Revelations, I

(25:59):
was like this is fine, butBrotherhood definitely felt like
peak.
I think if black flag hadn'tnailed the ship combat like it
did, you know, it wouldn't beheld up as much as it is, but
it's like.
It's like the best pirate game,so that's why everybody loves
it.
As far as like assassin's creedgames, I think that brotherhood

(26:21):
is probably the better of thetwo.
But but black flag, yeah, justwas so much fun and for the time
, even though the assassinsgameplay was still kind of the
same formula, it was put in areally amazing setting and then
the pirate stuff and the shipcombat was just such a breath of
fresh air that, like you said,that's why it's kind of hard to

(26:42):
choose between them, becauseeven though they wrapped up this
trilogy, black Flag and Rogueare all still kind of in this
era of the series where thegameplay and everything like it
was that version of Assassin'sCreed.
You don't really get the nextera or the next kind of
iteration of the of the seriesuntil Unity or the next kind of

(27:04):
iteration of the series untilUnity.
So in this grouping,brotherhood and Black Flag
definitely are like the two,that kind of rise to the top as
favorites for different reasons.

Speaker 2 (27:12):
Yeah, and don't get us wrong, for those of you that
aren't aware, revelations stillscored very well and we're
talking about an Assassin'sCreed game every year 2009, 2010
, 2011,.
And they're all pretty solid.
It's just that Revelations isgoing up against two of the
better games in the entireseries and you know, they're

(27:32):
adding back in Altair.
Maybe some people didn't andpeople may have not played the
first game, just because youknow the word of mouth.
So Revelations is still solidAgain.
I can't really tell you toomuch about it all this time
later, but still a really reallygood game.
Eric, did you play all three ofthese?
You played all the way through,right?

Speaker 3 (27:50):
oh yeah, yeah, I, yeah, we just at this point I
was buying them on release.
That includes assassin's creed3 until black flag, uh, which
was my final one, uh.
But you know, for me, like Ijust fondly remember this time
period because, like again, thetrailers were so cool you also
had I don't know if you guys sawwatch this assassin's creed

(28:11):
lineage.
It was like a bunch of short,like I remember that short
episodes.
There's live action right yeah,it was live action.
It was about, I believe, hisfather yeah, etzio's father and
it wasn't that bad.
That's why we were like, oh, oh, when they make an Assassin's
Creed movie with MichaelFassbender, it's going to be so
fucking cool Uh we didn't putlineage in one of the like,

(28:32):
wasn't it in revelations?

Speaker 1 (28:33):
as, like a menu option, you could watch it
through revelations.

Speaker 3 (28:36):
Probably it came out in.
Yeah Well, it came out in 2009.
So I mean that would have beenAssassin's Creed 2 time.
So maybe it was Brotherhood ormaybe they because, like,
Revelations was 2011.

Speaker 1 (28:51):
Yeah, maybe they like released it standalone and then
they packaged it withRevelations so more people would
see it.

Speaker 3 (28:58):
Maybe, but yeah, no, I definitely think.
Oh, ok, it was.
It was released on DVD as bonuscontent in a special lineage
edition of Assassin's Creed 2.
And then it was included inspecial editions of Brotherhood.
So yeah, somewhere around thatline.

Speaker 2 (29:15):
We got to get rid of the DVDs, guys.

Speaker 1 (29:18):
The two that I didn't mention were the ones that had
it.
We got to package these DVDsand clear out the warehouse.

Speaker 3 (29:24):
We got to do what we got to do, but yeah, no.
And then I remember againAssassin's Creed 3, like the one
thing that stands out to me forthat game is I specifically
remember there just being likean infinite glitch of people
that I killed, so like I was introuble or I was getting like
they were going to arrest me orwhatever was going to happen,
and I just started slaughteringredcoats and I still have the

(29:46):
image on my Facebook where Iposted it.
Yeah, it's brutal, brutal.
It was so many people it'sconcerning.
I sat there for 45 minutes justslashing and parrying.

Speaker 1 (29:56):
That must be like a core Assassin's Creed memory,
because I did that in three.
I think I have a clip saved ofit.
And I did it in three.
I think I have a clip saved ofit and I did it in Black Flag,
just like they just keep coming.
So I just keep killing, I justkeep killing.

Speaker 2 (30:10):
You know it could have been anybody yeah could
have been anybody Not that guyin the in the hood, certainly
certainly not him, certainly notme.
But yeah, let's.
Let's talk about Black Flag,because one it is a lot of
people's favorite game.
Like you said, andrew, it isthe best pirate game.
I'm sure some people would makethe case for Sea of Thieves.

(30:33):
They're wrong, but Black Flagis still very much loved to this
day.
Supposedly, a full remake orremaster is coming out in this
year, 2025.
And it's a game that's held upvery well.
I can't say that I've played itwithin the last five or six

(30:53):
years or so, but I've definitelyjumped into it, you know, in
the time that it has come outand been like man.
This still is really, reallygreat.
There is a certain euphoria tojust being out on the open sea
and just kind of like enjoyingthe world, and that's what
happens, I think.
I think a lot of people that arestill big fans, especially of

(31:14):
the RPGs which we'll get to,they talk about, you know, just
being able to explore andadventure around and kind of
really get lost in it, andthere's a lot of that in
Assassin's creed, black flag.
So, eric, I'll throw this toyou first, because this is the
last one that you have jumpedinto.
So what is your memory of blackflag?
Do you think you know?

(31:35):
I mean, 2025 has been an insaneyear for gaming.
Uh, we, andrew we did anepisode earlier on your podcast
this year said is this consolegeneration dead?
Then this crazy string of gamescame out and we were like we
should delete that.

Speaker 1 (31:48):
You're welcome, everybody, you're welcome.

Speaker 2 (31:51):
Yeah, we turned it around for you.
You are welcome.
So, eric, do you have anyinterest in maybe jumping into a
remake or a remaster of BlackFlag?
And also, what were yourmemories of that game?

Speaker 3 (32:01):
I mean, I would the naval combat alone.
I remember being such a breathof fresh air and like how it was
done, which is why, like youwould think, we would enjoy a
game like sea of thieves, likejust the concept, right.
That didn't happen.
You would think that the samecompany making a skull and bones
specifically about naval combatit's next month's episode,

(32:24):
right?
Everybody downloaded they haveland combat now, so it's gotta
be as good as black flag.
That must be where they'reworking on it.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
I don't think we've seen it yet.

Speaker 3 (32:33):
Oh yeah, it's not out yet yeah, fuck me well damn,
let me delete skull and bonesfrom my playstation, but it was
a lot of that and, like again,this is where I started to
realize, like, from a storyperspective I don't remember
very much Again, this was, thiswas the start of something

(32:54):
fairly new from a storyperspective, and you know
they're going through theseperiods where it's changing.
So this was the beginning ofthat second period of what
Assassin's Creed has become.
And you know, like I don'tremember loving many of the
characters or the story, plotlines or anything like that.
What I remember about this gamewas the gameplay and it was

(33:23):
something that I felt wasunfulfilled since Assassin's
Creed Brotherhood.
So I feel like, again, not thatthe last two games were bad and
I think to both of your pointsabout Revelations and then three
, they probably are overhatedbecause they never reached the
heights of Brotherhood.
I just think Black Flag wassuch a breath of fresh air At
the same time, also another veryspecific period piece that kind

(33:44):
of showed the intentions ofwhat I figured was gonna happen
over the next couple years.
This game again, another year,like they, they haven't stopped
yearly there was a year gapbetween this one.
This one came on 2013 yeah, theyhaven't stopped yearly releases
in like, like for a while.
It was like a full decade wherethey were just going hard year

(34:05):
after year.
So this, this was in the middleof that and uh, you know, you
could feel it.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
Yeah, and I think a lot of this at least I think I
can speak for you, eric is we'recoming off of the good pirates
of the Caribbean movies as well.
So we're like, hell yeah, man,pirates, sign me up.
So that certainly played intoit as well.
So I'll also ask you the samequestion, andrew I the remainder
of this year is going to beinsane as far as game releases.

(34:33):
Obviously, we keep very closetrack of that.
Would you find time to jumpback into Black Flag, whether it
be later this year or evenearly next year?

Speaker 1 (34:43):
A hundred percent.
I actually revisited Black Flagearlier this year.
Shameless plug.
I did a video on our YouTubechannel about like what I
thought made this game sospecial.
Spoiler alert it's the seashanties.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
That's the glue that holds this thing together.
That's the most fun we had inSea of Thieves was seeing
shanties.

Speaker 1 (35:02):
Literally like I mean just that little touch like
made it.
But the whole thing was, youknow, like the bright, lighting,
the island kind of theme, thejust everything the pirate side
of of it was done so well frompresentation to gameplay, and
like being able to pan out onyour ship and just like see it

(35:23):
floating, like sailing to thesea, and then the combat like it
looks like it shouldn't be funbecause you're in that kind of
like first person perspective.
It it seems like it wouldn'twork, but it just it made it so
like visceral and enjoyable anda ton of fun to like take down
these legendary ships.
Assassin's Creed black flag wasmaybe the first game I ever

(35:45):
100%ed.
I went through and I dideverything.
I did all the like swimmingwith the shark collectibles, I
killed all the whales, like I,and I think part of it like we
talk about the gameplay kind ofbeing the same as the older
games, but this one was somanageable from like a
collect-a-thon perspectivebecause of it was islands, so

(36:05):
like you, just you go clear anisland and then you go clear the
next island and then you hadyou had like your bigger kind of
city spaces that were like youknow, and then you had you had
like your bigger kind of cityspaces that were, like you know,
bigger islands, but it made itlike so manageable to just kind
of go through and collecteverything and I I had a blast
playing through it and lovedevery second of it.
I think the modern day storysucked like this the whole

(36:27):
working for Abstergo makingmovies, but they're actually
using you.
Blah, blah, blah.
You're a no-name protagonist infirst person yeah, like all that
was was garbage, like I.
I was glad at that at that time, you know the desmond story was
over, but I really felt thatthey like dropped the ball and
fumbled the modern storyline andthey still haven't picked it up

(36:50):
like they should.
I think the RPGs have done abetter job of it than these this
game and rogue, and thenespecially syndicate and unity,
the.
There was basically no modernstory whatsoever, but this game
really, I mean it was just the,the pirate thing Like they.
Just they did it so well and itworked.

(37:11):
It worked so well with thatubisoft formula like the, just
the marriage of the two, it itwas just like a perfect, perfect
storm, perfect time and placeand this game just like
skyrocketed people that didn'tgive a crap about assassin's
creed at all love this game, andthis is the first game correct
me if I'm wrong where you coulddual wield weapons as well.

Speaker 2 (37:33):
Right, didn't they introduce that in this, or could
you do it before?

Speaker 1 (37:37):
I think this may have been the, I can't remember if
connor could have like hishatchet.

Speaker 3 (37:43):
He have two.

Speaker 1 (37:44):
Yeah, did he have two hatchets or if they did the
thing, it was like the hatchetand the hidden blade, like I
don't I don't really remember,but this one was definitely like
you wore four pistols and youcould just like fire them in
rapid succession, Like it was.

Speaker 3 (37:57):
Crazy.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
And it was.
I mean, it was also like it wassort of a next-gen game Like
this one came out, I think,across the 360 and the Xbox One,
yeah, and so like the tech ofbeing able to just like go from

(38:20):
the island, hop on your ship,sail out, kill some other ships,
go on another island, hunt someanimals, and you would have
like these kind of hiddenloading screens whenever you
were looting a ship.
But other than that it was likeall seamless, you could just
kind of go anywhere and do itand it was.

Speaker 2 (38:31):
It just felt really big and really impressive it's
crazy that black flag is thejumping off point for two
different things one, you know,really cementing assassin's
creed aside from two and andbrotherhood, from being like a
staple franchise, but also thiscrazy 10 plus year process of

(38:55):
skull and bones, like it's partof both of those things.
And they're still trying tomake skull and bones work all
this time later, when it wasjust like just give us another
black flag game, just putanother game in the set.
It would have been I know thisis like simplifying it because
making a game is not easy, butit would have been that easy to
just do that and it's not likeone of the other.

(39:17):
Didn't Revelations havemultiplayer?
So like, why was it sodifficult for them to just make
a multiplayer pirate game?

Speaker 1 (39:25):
Well, the multiplayer 2013 in that era of Assassin's
Creed, was very simple comparedto, like, the game itself.
Yeah, it was kind of like a, anamong us thing, where you were
just like running around thislittle map and trying to kill
each other.

Speaker 2 (39:38):
Yeah, because I couldn't imagine that it would
be like.
Sea of thieves is now right,just like free roaming around
you could have like six peoplein a server, two ships.

Speaker 1 (39:46):
Probably that's all that could handle, I don't know
but they did make another pirategame, although it was less
about the pirate life, but thegameplay was the same in rogue
yeah, and I I definitely didn'tjump into that.

Speaker 2 (40:03):
So after this is is when uh, and eric for sure
jumped off and and me, really,the only thing I knew about
these next few games was againworking through gamest always
keeping up with Game Informer,game trailers.
That YouTube page rest in peaceto them.
But between Rogue, unity andSyndicate is definitely a blank

(40:26):
area when it comes to what Iknew about those games.
Unity was the one that was likea technical disaster right,
that was the one that was inFrance.
Technical disaster, right, thatwas the one that was in france
yes, I believe the frenchrevolution.
And is unity also the one thatwas supposed to have multiplayer
, like four player multiplayer?

Speaker 1 (40:41):
it did and it was really cool yeah, and it.

Speaker 2 (40:44):
I think that gets lost, unfortunately, upon the
disastrous release.
So but we'll start with roguethere and then you can kind of
just move on from however you'dlike.
So, rogue, unity and Syndicate.
So did you continue to playthese games and where do these?
When you look back at them now,are they just kind of like

(41:04):
footnotes and you just kind ofmove along, or did you really
enjoy some of these and maybethink they deserve a little bit
more credit?

Speaker 1 (41:11):
So Rogue and Unity released on the same day, which
is right.
Two different consoles, right.
Yeah, really, one was last genone was new.
Yeah, next gen you could onlyplay unity on next gen.
You could play only play rogueon last gen and I played both of
them.
I think I played rogue laterbecause I wanted the like new
next gen game.
And, yeah, it's reallyunfortunate that Unity had such

(41:35):
a rough launch, because I dothink if it had launched better,
this could be what like thefuture of Assassin's Creed was,
because Unity is actually in areally really good Assassin's
Creed game in the sense that thetech was super impressive the
amount of crowds on the street,the setting in France and the

(41:57):
buildings you could climb.
The parkour was reworked and waymore intricate.
You had a lot more control overyour movement and the
multiplayer was super fun.
Like you and three of yourfriends could go in and try to
take out this target or thesetargets, together with like some
different like requirements onthe mission and try not to get

(42:17):
caught and all this stuff.
I played it with my brother andnow brother-in-law and like
again, other than like technicalissues, the core idea was super
cool, but the other thing thatunity did really well.
I guess I should also mentionthat to this day, you go back to
unity.
It's still one of the bestlooking games in the series.

Speaker 2 (42:34):
Oh yeah, Whenever I see videos of it, when I just do
like YouTube rabbit hole, I'mlike this looks incredible.
Yeah, as far as the layout it'samazing the lighting,
everything and the gameplay.

Speaker 1 (42:46):
Like there was so many systems as far as like you
could get different outfits andweapons and they all had
different like stats and perksand you could customize your
look and you were building outyour, your hub and it basically
it took all of the ideas fromthe older games and like really
just blew them out, and then thestory was a really personal

(43:08):
story between your character,arno, and like his childhood
friend, slash, kind ofgirlfriend, and them finding
themselves on opposite sides ofthe assassin templar fight, and
so it took like it actuallyfocused on the assassins and the
templars and it put you in likethis really personal,

(43:29):
conflicted situation of dealingwith that conflict.
And so overall, like I thinkthis game is criminally
underrated.
I think that it's one that ifit had launched better, it would
potentially have been thedirection the games could have
kept going, because it was stillopen world and massive, but not

(43:49):
like the RPGs we have now.
And it wasn't an RPG.
The combat was still a lot moreintentional and it was much
more stealth focused and it didkind of the hitman thing you
would enter an area where yourtarget was and it would like
kind of lock that area off andlike put you in this sort of
like mission state and then itwould give you like hey, if you
go like eavesdrop on this guy,you might learn some information

(44:12):
about where this thing is, thatyou could like unlock this door
to sneak in this one passageand like drop a chandelier on
him or you could maybe go overhere and poison him, or you
could like just run in, stab himin the back and try to run out
as fast as you can.
It like it gave you thatstealth sim kind of gameplay and
that the rpgs definitely don'tdo like they're.

(44:34):
They give you options in thesense that it's open and you can
just do whatever.
But this was like options thatwere intentional for like
setting up cool set pieces andstuff and then syndicate.
I thought the gameplay loop andthe setting were really really
cool.
Like the setting is awesome,like victorian england.
And then the two twins.

(44:55):
They were cool, both one beingthe more like faster kind of
assassiny character and theother one being more of a
brawler.
And the whole idea of that gameis like you're taking back the
streets of london.
You're like you're theassassins are a gang and so
you're taking the streets backfrom the opposing gang.
If you were to ask me whathappens in that game, as far as
story couldn't tell you, I thinkto.

(45:16):
It's like literally probablythe weakest in the series, which
is a bummer, because that wasreally fun, the setting was
really cool, but just like Idon't remember any of the
characters I don't remember.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
I remember you're on a train for your base, which is
cool, like there was a ton ofcool ideas for the game itself,
but the story just completelyfell flat that's interesting
because, out of all three ofthem, syndicate is the one that
I would be, at least that I'vealways thought that I'd be most
interested in diving into,because I've heard really good

(45:49):
things about the brother andsister.
Specifically evie, I've heard,is a really really good
character.
Eric, any of these three, likeyou said, like we we talked
about you know, this is when wetook a break.
This is also the start of likeour kind of stepping away from
games for a little bit.
Like, looking at the 2014releases, there's not really
anything on here that I think wereally were playing, other than
like Titanfall.

(46:09):
You played like an hour ofWatch Dogs and hated it, which I
understand.
Thief remember like we thoughtthief was kind of going to be
something we'd really get intoand then like the master chief
collection.
So this was like we're trying.
We're discovering that thisxbox one is like a brick and
there's nothing we can really dowith it, so we're starting to
do other things.
So, like any of theseassassin's creed, even if you

(46:31):
can remember back at that time,did any of these interest you as
far as diving back in?
Because, like a multiplayerAssassin's Creed game, we should
have been like, yeah, let's trythat out, but all we're ever
going to remember is those faces, those skulls from Assassin's
Creed Unity, and that's that'sunfortunate.

Speaker 3 (46:46):
From what it sounds like, it is unfortunate If you
could just insert the clip ofAndrew in the pre-show just
going no, that's all I reallyhave to say.
Yeah, unfortunately, again asgreat, and you would think that
I would be at an all time highinterest after Black Flag.

(47:07):
But I enjoyed Black Flag a lot,while at the same time as a
franchise franchise not reallybeing impressed with the
direction.
Andrew mentioned the facelesscharacter you play.
Modern day.
I mean that's like integral,for like that was that was a
really important part of playingassassin's creed games and like
if you don't care about that atall, well, that's like a

(47:28):
quarter of the game you justdon't care about.
So when unity came out and youwere hearing about some of the
concerns, then again a gamedropping right along with it.
That's like an immediate turnoff.
And then by that point,syndicate just was completely
out of my radar and I had othergames I was playing around that
time and then you know when we,when we talk about origins,

(47:51):
we'll talk a little bit aboutthe transition in my gaming
habits at that point.
But still at this time therewere just other games that I
found to be more interesting andI was just kind of tired of the
same old thing.
I didn't think they were reallyreinventing the wheel, and when
you feel that way with afranchise and you disconnect,

(48:11):
it's just a matter of are yougoing to come back or not.
In my case, I just didn't.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
Well, you know, where we were playing is something
that had somewhat similar combatis shadow of mordor, and that
introduced the nemesis systemand it was kind of like all over
from that point on.
So when we were that fulfilled,like that style of gameplay,
even though obviously setting,wise and tonally they're
completely different, but whenwe were that fulfilled, like
that style of gameplay, eventhough obviously setting, wise
and tonally they're completelydifferent, but when we're

(48:37):
talking about like an action,adventure game with combat,
that's what we jumped into.
Also, south park, the stick oftruth came out that year and we
played the hell out of that gametoo.
So it was, you know, we weren'tplaying a whole lot or as much
as we were in previous years,but all you have to do, you know
, especially for us, is kind oflook at what else came around,
came out around that same timeand what our focus was, and that

(49:00):
was just elsewhere.
So I I would like to go back atsome point and I will say that
I would love to go back and playunity and syndicate.
You know, with the way thingsare now and the very small
amount of time we have, I don'tknow that it is going to happen,
but it seems like there are twogames in there with Unity and
Syndicate, that could have beenreally, really important in

(49:22):
terms of, and are reallyimportant when it comes to the
franchise, but because of thebad press that Unity got,
unfortunately, like, we had thatlittle bit of a lull and a lot
of people think left after that.
It seems so, which isunfortunate, but that led to the
rpg era and we have three gamesand I don't know what where

(49:45):
mirage fits in, so we'll talkabout that later.
But we have origins, odysseyand valhalla and we're talking
about.
So origins came out in 2017.
So, eric, this is when we'regetting a little bit back into
gaming, but this is more so.
Our titanfall slash thebeginning of our fortnight era,

(50:06):
stuff like that, and I movedspecifically I I was living, you
know, in texas, so the gamesthat I'm playing at this time
are God of War.
Like single player, I'm playingGod of War, horizon Zero Dawn,
assassin's Creed has not crossedmy mind in many, many years.
So you have you learn aboutthis new direction.
They're going, andrew, when itcomes to origins, and then we

(50:29):
get Odyssey, and then we getValhalla.
So we're very much going tolean on you in terms of your
experience with these because,as we talked about, the setting
and the stories that are told inthese games very much interest
me, but the amount of time thathas to be committed in order to
get there, it's not somethingthat I'm ever going to have time

(50:49):
for.
So what's your experience whenthey turned into the rpg
mechanics and changed up the theway they were doing things?

Speaker 1 (50:57):
so yeah, at this point, like video games media
fans, everybody was kind ofgetting burnt out on the
assassin's creed formula.
They took a break.
I don't remember exactly I mean, you just said the dates, but I
don't remember exactly how longit was between syndicate and
syndicate was 2015 and umorigins was 2017 okay, so two
years, so it wasn't that long,but it was longer than what they

(51:20):
had been doing.
And then they come out with thetrailer for origins and this
game looks incredible, like itlooks gorgeous.
You can hop on the little boatsand go across the the like the
river.
You're fighting with theanimals.
It's set in egypt, which isanother like criminally
underrated setting for games,and it also it was kind of the

(51:45):
beginning of the end as far aslike any sort of major assassin
templar focus, but they did itin a really smart way where this
was the beginning of theassassins and so there was kind
of a, a reason that made sensewhy it wasn't dealing with the
assassin and templar conflict asmuch was because this was kind
of how the order got established.

(52:05):
And so I was.
I mean, I'm still a big fan ofopen world games.
I think I've probably tired onthem a little bit more recently,
but like the fact that it wasgoing massive open world I saw
as a plus.
You could kind of go anywhere,do anything.
We're in that kind of Breath ofthe Wild inspired time, and this

(52:28):
game now in retrospect, has thebest story because it focuses
on bayek and his like wife,separated wife, ex-wife, and
like the the loss of their son,like the murder of their son and
him kind of going on thisrampaging adventure and like

(52:50):
dealing with that and learningabout himself and also the
assassin stuff that's happening,and it was a focused story on
him as a character and actuallya lot about his wife as well,
whereas after that the modelkind of shifted to the it wasn't
as bad in Odyssey, butdefinitely Valhalla and Shadows
and Mirage shifted to the hunt,the targets, in any order you

(53:13):
want, which means that the storyis going to be fragmented and
we can't really show a lot ofgrowth and depth and progression
because you have to be able tosee it in like all these
different orders and it stillmakes sense, whereas origins
told a story from start tofinish.
Also, origins was not likefully committed to RPG, like

(53:35):
Odyssey was when they went hey,the Witcher was cool, we should
do that.
Origins didn't have dialogueoptions.
Really, it had gear and stuff,but it was pretty limited.
It was like RPG lite as far asthe systems, and so I thought
that that game was just a reallyexcellent execution of the idea
they were going for and then,as they continued on we get more

(53:58):
into the like, the bloat andthe repetition and like Odyssey
is a lot of people's favoritebecause it's a really cool
setting, it's got the shipsagain, it's gorgeous.
People love Cassandra and Iliked that game fine, but I was
definitely getting tired by theend of that one.
And then Valhalla I had toforce myself to finish because

(54:22):
I'm a true fan and I had to dothat, and so I forced myself to
finish that game and I was like,wow, the last 10 hours or so of
this game are actually reallycool and do a lot to kind of
move the Assassin's creed plotforward and that's the one that
we were talking about before wegot started.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
That's like 60 hours, right, or they're all pretty
long it was more like 80 jesus.

Speaker 1 (54:42):
Yeah, I think I think they got progressively like I
think odyssey had a lot of stuffyou could do but you also
didn't have to, whereas valhallawas kind of broken up into
these like mini stories, and soyou'd go do like one mini story
in this area of the map.
Then you'd go to this ministory in this area of the map
and you had to like do all thoseto beat the game.

(55:03):
Origins was probably more alongthe like 40 hour.
You know like it was manageable, like that.
I think Origins is definitelythe best version of this model
that they've done.
And and I I'm enjoying shadowsI haven't beat that one.
But the rpgs they just like theyare what they are, and what
they are is big and what theyare is bloated, and what they

(55:27):
are is, if you really like them,they're a great game to kind of
play over the course of theyear or whatever.
Or you know, back when we werebroke and couldn't buy very many
video games but we had lots oftime, it'd be a great game to
just kind of play forever.
But now it's like I mean, I'm43 hours into shadows and I'm
like I really don't know whenthis is gonna end, like I can

(55:49):
kind of see how many maintargets I maybe have left, but
are they gonna open up likeanother target chart over here?
I have no idea.
So I think they have somethinggood here and I think they're
good games and good RPGs.
But I do think that it suffersfrom the like Ubisoft formula
and them wanting to, becausethen they they pump out the DLCs
and then they have the onlinestore and, like they know, this

(56:10):
is their cash cow and so they'rereally trying to to milk it for
all that they can, and I thinkthat that makes the games worse
than they could be.
But overall I still think thatthey're all.
They range from pretty good togreat.
Like origins is my favoritegame in the series.
I think that game is isfantastic.
It's like objectively a greatgame and it's a good assassin's

(56:32):
creed game, and so I think thatthere's good in this like era
that we're in, but there'sdefinitely a lot you can nitpick
as well yeah, eric, this is, Iremember, the first time I saw
someone playing origins.

Speaker 2 (56:46):
Um, a friend of mine stayed over like, uh, he came in
, our buddy, josh, came in fromout of town and he brought his
playstation and loaded uporigins and, like you said, even
that is still like an RPG lite,but still, when he's like going
through the menu and lookingthrough everything, I was like
what this is Assassin's Creed,what the hell happened?
And that's when I knew I waslike I don't think I'm going to

(57:06):
jump into these.
So, eric, you know you kind ofalluded to it earlier where your
gaming preferences have changedso much to earlier, where your
gaming preferences have changedso much.
And and right, I mean this gamecame out in 20, like we said,
2017.
So we're we're really focusingonly on multiplayer.
Really, at that time, did anyof these you know we're talking
about as far as we've brought uptrailers a lot when it comes to

(57:28):
assassin's creed, becausethey're all very good, like any
you can put on any of them andthey're like this looks
outstanding.
But as we get older and ourtastes get older, like our
tastes change, did any of theseever like toggle your interest
at any time?

Speaker 3 (57:43):
yeah, I mean, even today they still, they still
kind of do um, you know, we'retaught, we talked about we're
doing a lot of streaming and allof that.
Well, in may I'm planning ondoing like a mythological theme
and all of that.
Well, in May I'm planning ondoing like a mythological theme
for some of mine.
So, like I'm going to playHades for the first time, I
really like games like Age ofEmpire when I was younger, and

(58:05):
Age of Mythology just looks likea fun time that I could just
jump into and try.
So I was trying to find gamesand I came across Odyssey.
Well, you have to set up aubisoft account through game
pass if I want to do that and Idon't really know that I want to
do that then it's a a largefile size.
So I'm like how much of thisgame am I really gonna play for
real?
Am I gonna enjoy it?

(58:26):
Right, and I love greekmythology and stuff.
So, while origins, time wisemade more sense for me to jump
in, because at that time I wasstill playing Titanfall 2, like
you mentioned, I was replayingthe Bioshock collection that
came out Outside of that.
We were just moving head overheels into Fortnite, where our
gaming experience basically diedfor a couple years, several

(58:50):
years, we could say, and youknow, then we moved to 2018.
Yeah, then 2018.
You know, uh, you've got a lotof the playstation games, so,
like spider-man, for example,god of war comes out in 2018.
So I feel like I just missed theship to jump back on with
origins, and as much as I lovegreek mythology, then you, it's

(59:14):
an.
They said, oh, we were going togive ourselves a break, and
then a year later came out withOdyssey after Origins.
So again it was like from afar,you're like, oh, okay, it's
just the same thing, it's thesame formula, and at that point
I had already put it in my brainthese are just time period

(59:36):
pieces.
I don't really need to beinvested in each release and I
could just play the ones I wantto play.
It just unfortunately thenbecame bad timing as well.
Even though I was interested inthe setting, it just didn't
work out time wise for me.

Speaker 2 (59:46):
Yeah, and I mean I'll just say, aesthetically these
all are appealing.
Origins is the one that I wantto play the most and then
probably it probably just goesin order origins, odyssey and
valhalla.
Will I ever get to them?
Probably not, but I know.
Origin, specifically, like,stood out to me as far as just
like man.
This looks incredible visually,um, in the whole setting.

(01:00:07):
I'm very much into also when itcomes to mythology.
So like I saw, like egyptianmythology, so I saw you can
fight a lot of like mythologicalcreatures and pretty much all
of them as well.
So all that is very interestingto me.
So I I gotta ask, because it'sthe one I know the least about,
and I remember watching youryoutube video when mirage came
out and thinking what the hellis this?

(01:00:30):
What is this game?
Even so, if you want to bringus back to that time when you
put out your review of Mirageand just kind of reminisce on
your experience, because to thisday I'm like, where does this
sit in the series?

Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
So, yeah, mirage focuses on the assassin
character from Valhalla.
So in Valhalla you play as avorthe viking and then when it
like ties into the mythologyside, you control like odin
basically, and so you're notyou're never really an assassin

(01:01:04):
in that game, but there is acouple of assassins who like
come to your village and that'show they kind of connect them
and then actually basm is hisname.
Basm is like a key player inthe end of valhalla when things
start to go like really crazywith the main story and the
timelines and the sci-fi-ness ofit all.

(01:01:24):
And so when they announced theywere doing a game focused on
basm, I was like, oh, that couldbe kind of cool, because where
they left him in Valhalla wasreally interesting.
And basically what this game isis it is an origin story for
Basim, so it's like you seeinghim become an assassin, and it

(01:01:46):
was originally meant to be DLCfor Valhalla and so it was going
to be an expansion like DLC.
And then it grew to the pointwhere they were like, oh, we
could maybe make it its own game.
Also, we don't have anythingelse to release this year.
And so it was made from like aB C studio.
It's a smaller experience, andso what that meant is that we're

(01:02:10):
going to advertise this thingas like a return to the series
roots, like it's all aboutstealth.
It's all about stealth, it'sall about the city and the
parkour and stuff and a lot ofthat.
Is true.
It's set in Baghdad and thecity of Baghdad is one of the
best things about this game.
It's really cool.
It's built for parkour, a lotof free running stuff in this
game, but Basim is kind of anothing character in this game.

(01:02:34):
The combat sucks.
Like they intentionally triedto make it bad so that you would
not want to use it and youwould try to do stealth like
whenever possible, but thatnever always works.
Like you're going to end up incombat at some point and this
combat was just really not funat all.
And then the story.
Like I said earlier, theyleaned heavily into that like

(01:02:56):
take out your targets and we'regonna kind of feed it to you in
chunks.
And I played it and there wasdefinitely it was kind of like
broken in like three sectionsbecause it was a smaller
experience, and I played it inthe third section.
I played like the last one, feltlike it should have been first,
because I was like workingalongside my mentor and like
basm was saying things that madeit feel like he was a little

(01:03:18):
bit less experienced than thecharacter I had been playing
this whole game with and it waslike why not just make this the
first one?
Like why not lock you into thatso that this story makes more
sense?
But they don't.
It also suffered from just likea lot of like wall running and
kind of falling back down orjumping off the side of a wall

(01:03:38):
or like really janky, slipperyanimations when you come out of
a bush to assassinate a person.
Like it just it felt like itwas supposed to be dlc and so
overall I don't recommend it.
The idea is cool.
The concept of returning to theroots, getting this tight like
20 hour assassin focused gameseems cool, but in practice,

(01:04:01):
like it just I feel like itdidn't hit the mark.
It just kind of.
And the city of baghdad looksgreat.
The character models in the inthis game look god awful.
Like I had to go back and bootup like Odyssey to remember that
Ubisoft could make good faces,because I don't know what
happened in this game.
I mean, again, it was supposedto be DLC, it was smaller studio

(01:04:23):
, whatever, but it was like thislooks rough.
You hear people talk about, oh,this looks like a PS3 game or
whatever.
Well, this one actually didLike it was in the faces, like
it did like it was in the faces,like it was terrible.
It was like you know, in thefinal fantasy games they'll have
like the cutscene graphics thatare super, really like super
good, and then they have kind oflike the mid graphics and then
they have like the npcs that youget a fetch quest from and they

(01:04:43):
like don't move at all orwhatever.
That's kind of what everybodylooked like in this game.
It's just shapes, it's not likeyeah, it was rough, it was
rough yeah, and this was.

Speaker 2 (01:04:53):
You know, we're right in the and we're still in this
in this era too, right, eric,when it comes to ubisoft and
kind of just throwing shitagainst the wall and seeing what
sticks.
So you're looking at this likethree-year run right of
watchdogs, legion, far cry 6,which I enjoy, but only because
I'm playing it.
Or played it with jordan thedivision well, the division was
a little it.
With Jordan the division Well,the division was a little bit

(01:05:14):
earlier.
But like the division to theAvatar game, outlaws came out
last year.
Remember we played RollerChampions for two weeks, the
roller derby game.
That's a Ubisoft game.
So it's like, yeah, what are?
the Riders Republic, which Iheard got good reviews I've
never played it, but I do haveit like on my in my library
somewhere because it was freethe immortals forget the crew

(01:05:37):
the crew, the zelda ripoff,immortals, phoenix rising, which
at the time I was so desperatefor a ps5 like looking game that
I bought it for like 20, playedit for a couple hours and got
rid of it.
So it was a weird time and thatwe're like again.

Speaker 3 (01:05:52):
They're maybe trying to find their way out of right
eric, as far as mirage, justseemed like the most ubisoft
thing of them to do yeah, andfor me I um, like you mentioned
immortals, that was another oneI looked at because I was
looking for games that fit thatlike mythology build, and then I
saw Ubisoft and immediately waslike no, thank you.

(01:06:14):
I think that, unfortunately, hasbeen their whole shtick like
just running franchises into theground, and I think that's
maybe my resentment towardsAssassin's Creed.
So, before we kind of talkabout, like whatever the future
looks like I know we wanted totalk about the hub Maybe we can
summarize, like all those extraprojects, those like mobile

(01:06:37):
games and all those things thatwe like very clearly skipped
over, cause I'd ever played them.
I know no interest at all, butbefore any of that, I kind of
want to ask, like Andrew, myopinion is that when we talk
about the settings of the game,could these not have all been
like separate franchises?
Like at some point you know Imentioned, like with Black Flag,

(01:07:00):
could that not have just beenits own franchise, a pirate game
, and they could have spawnedmore from there?
Could we not have had Origins,odyssey, Valhalla, like, could
those not have just been notAssassin's Creed games, or do
you feel like the setting had tobe part of the franchise?
I'm really curious about that.

Speaker 1 (01:07:23):
Well, for Origins specifically, I think it
benefited from the Assassin'slore.
Like that.
I think, like I said, that wasthe best marriage of all these
ideas.
Like I said, that was the bestmarriage of all these ideas.
But no, like on paper.
I think you could make a greekwarrior mythology game.
You could make a viking game.
You could make your I meanassassin's creed in in, uh,

(01:07:47):
shadows, like in japan, likethat has been something people
have wanted for forever.
So that kind of makes sense.
The problem is it's not going tosell like Assassin's Creed does
, and so they have to.
They're experimenting underthis umbrella, under the name
Assassin's Creed, becauseAssassin's Creed is their call
of duty.
Like Assassin's Creed is theirfranchise that the casuals come

(01:08:07):
out for.
That, like everybody checks outor looks into or at least is
aware a new one came out.
Assassin's Creed is basicallythe only thing Ubisoft has that
does these kind of numbers.
They have a lot of other gamesthat are successful.
They have some of the TomClancy games and stuff and Far

(01:08:29):
Cry does pretty well.
But Assassin's Creed is theirbig name and so sure they could
spend the time and resources tomake Egyptian RPG X.
But if they make it Assassin'sCreed Egyptian RPG.
It's going to be way moresuccessful just because people

(01:08:49):
are more likely to buy into thatthan they are the brand new.
People are more likely to buyinto that than they are the
brand new.
I mean, they kind of did likeImmortals.
Phoenix Rising, I think, wastargeted at like a younger
audience, but they kind of didthat.
Like that game is very it feelslike a cross between Breath of
the Wild and Assassin's CreedOdyssey, like it's a bunch of
super gamey puzzles and thensome exploration and navigation

(01:09:11):
similar to Breath of the Wild,but the combat feels a lot like
what was in origins or inodyssey and so like they kind of
did that and it didn't sell andthey canceled the franchise,
even though it like reviewedpretty well, critics liked it.
Like most people who tried itwere like, yeah, this is a fine
video game, but it just didn'tstand on its own.
So I think for sure on paper,yeah, these could all just be

(01:09:36):
their own ips, but from thestandpoint of the company
there's no way they could betheir own ips yeah, they're like
we said.

Speaker 2 (01:09:44):
There are people who will jump into these and, like
you said earlier, like maybeplay them over the course of a
year, maybe they can onlydedicate four or five hours a
week or every other week toplaying them and they just play
them for for what they are.
So I understand that question,eric, but yeah, slapping,
they're like the assassin'screed is the cloverfield of

(01:10:06):
video games.
Right, we're seeing justcloverfield attached on to any
project that wasn't already acloverfield movie and that's
what Assassin's Creed does.
So I would say, even thoughthey're as far as getting
through them, it can be somewhatof a chore at times.
I think since Origins they've,and then you know there was a

(01:10:27):
hiccup that was that was Mirage.
But when you talk about thosefour games including, including
Shadows, they're in pretty goodshape, especially compared to
like a Far Cry or a Watch Dogs,which is like aimless right now.
Who even knows if that's goingto return.
So they're the main franchise Ithink is in pretty good shape
and we'll use that to talk aboutShadows.
And I want to save most of thebig Shadows conversations for

(01:10:51):
your episode when I when I comeon, most of the the big shadows
conversations for your episodewhen I when I come on.
But you've doubled the amountof time I've gotten into it just
because I can't focus on onething I'm playing.
I'm playing so many differentgames at one time.
But I will say I've enjoyedshadows, I've enjoyed my time in
.
I've got 20 hours in and Ienjoy both of those characters
and all the BS nonsense that'sgone on before.

(01:11:11):
That we'll leave for otherpeople to talk about.
But as far as the game havingnot played an Assassin's Creed
game in 12 years so that's whenBlack Flag came out to Shadows
I'm very much enjoying it.
The setting is beautiful.
The thing I think that I it'snot fair to Shadows, but I just
cannot help but compare it to isGhost of Tsushima, and that

(01:11:32):
game, in my opinion, is is amasterpiece.
It's one of my favoritePlayStation games that's been
out and, eric, we've talkedabout that game here on the
podcast.
So do you think that, eventhough it's something fans have
wanted for so long, do you feellike it was a little bit too
late for them to finally diveinto Japan after there is now
another IP that had done it sowell and very similar gameplay?

Speaker 1 (01:11:55):
No, because that really only affects Sony players
and Assassin's Creed ismulti-platform also.
Assassin's Creed, like Ghost ofTsushima I love that game
Successful for a Sony exclusive,but it does not have the like
fan base that Assassin's Creeddoes.
I do think we're just kind ofin this setting is just blowing

(01:12:22):
up right now in general and Ithink they're different enough.
You know, like Ghost ofTsushima has that very stylized
kind of visuals and the stealthand combat and stuff play a lot
more like some of the olderAssassin's creed.
Not the combat, the combat'sits own thing.
It's pretty cool, but thestealth is like very simple and
I think that shadows has enoughof its own dna that it can kind

(01:12:48):
of stand apart.
I do think that, like in thegaming community and in the like
diehards and people who careabout the game, awards and stuff
, like the ghost of yotai,assassin's creed, shadows,
conversations are going to beexhausting probably, but like
for the average gamer, I thinkpeople are like cool, more, more

(01:13:08):
.
Uh, japan, you know more ofthis setting also.
Also Assassin's Creed doing ittheir way.
The cool thing about Shadowsand, like you said, we'll talk
about it more on the episode youcome on and do with me, but
like this is still one of theRPG games, like it fits under
that umbrella.
But this feels like a step up asfar as the visuals.

(01:13:31):
Like they have this crazyweather system in it, the
seasonal system, the just thelike.
Even the way that the horsefunctions they added like prone
to stealth.
They added being able to likeknock out lights and hide in the
dark.
They added like a more hardcorestealth mode.
They reworked combat completelyto make it much more intentional

(01:13:54):
and like kind of parry focusedand and so while it definitely
feels like the three rpgs thatcame before it in the sense like
the overall structure, qualitywise, and like them actually
putting some time into liketaking a look at the systems and
refining some stuff and likemaking some changes, it does
feel kind of like that next genstep, that next gen upgrade,

(01:14:15):
because this game's notavailable on the last gen
consoles and whereas the otherthree all were, and so I think
they took advantage of that andI think that it feels like a
higher quality experience justcompared to the other games in
the franchise.
Compared to ghost of tsushimalike there's.
I think there's a lot ofpersonal preference in there.
I think you get a much betterand more intentional story in

(01:14:38):
ghost of tsushima at least sofar, what I've experienced in
shadows.
But I think shadows does thestealth stuff a lot.
It's a lot more fun andinteresting in shadows.

Speaker 2 (01:14:49):
So yeah, and the whole thing with Ghost of
Tsushima 2 is also playing in aspecific style that is not
associated with that time, right, that's, the whole thing of the
ghost is like you're, you'restraying away from, like the
honor system and everything likethat, whereas you know,
depending on the characteryou're playing as in in shadows,
that's.
Another benefit is just havingthe two play styles as well and,

(01:15:11):
you know, being able to up thedifficulty when it comes to
stealth, which I highlyrecommend for those of you that
haven't picked up the game.
Don't cheese the game.
You could easily do that withthe stealth and just kind of
hide, just out of sight.
But, yeah, that's definitelythe way to go.
So, eric, after all, this timeyou know if it's not Shadows is
there something that could getyou to try out one of these RPGs

(01:15:34):
, whether it be this year?
Like, say, shadow shows up ongame pass or you know you wish
listed and it does go on sale onesteem.
Like, where's the interest inassassin's creed in 2025 and
beyond for you?
Uh?

Speaker 3 (01:15:46):
cue the andrew.
No, no, no, I would go to yotaicoming out too, like I assume
you're gonna play that waybefore Ghost of Yotai coming out
too.

Speaker 2 (01:15:53):
I assume you're going to play that way before you
play this, right, yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:15:57):
way before I would play Shadows.
I never fully finished A Ghostof Tsushima, so I do want to
completely finish that game, butlisten, we tried to do it for
the episode.
I underestimated how much time.

Speaker 1 (01:16:09):
That game is big.
It's a big game.

Speaker 3 (01:16:12):
Big game, big, big.
So yeah, I just don't think I'mgonna be interested in it
unless they're doing somethingthat is like extraordinary, like
something that has to get meback in and like, even when the
game released I didn't hear likeyou had to play this.
I'll give you a good exampleafter we're done recording

(01:16:33):
because and I did do it in thelast hour or 30 minutes of your
stream, phil at the end of thisrecording I'm also considering
playing clear obscure again.
So, like at the end of yourstream, I said I might, I might
boot it up.
I did this recording.
I'm tired, I'm gonna go bootthat game up because I hear so
many people talking about howgreat it is and things about the

(01:16:54):
combat and things that areinterested and while it hasn't
quite gripped me yet on anyfront, honestly, except for the
combat, I'm interested.
I'm curious Nothing I've seenfrom Assassin's Creed Shadows as
a you know, comparable releasegame.
Like in the last 12 to 24months I've had so many games
that have come on my radarthrough word of mouth or through

(01:17:16):
visual gameplay that I've seenand anything I've had so many
games that have come on my radarthrough word of mouth or
through visual gameplay thatI've seen and anything I've seen
of Shadow has just been like ohokay, it's a Assassin's Creed
game in another setting, which,again, is just how I've known
the franchise to be.

Speaker 2 (01:17:30):
And you know it's good that the reception for
Shadows has been really, reallysolid and I think we'll probably
see an even bigger uptick interms of players, because
everyone knows these ubisoftgames go on sale within the
first few months as well.
So people, I know a lot ofpeople are waiting on it.
Um, again, it was anunprecedented month for buying

(01:17:50):
new games for me.
It was a lot happened in a veryshort amount of time and, thank
goodness, game pass is onceagain a viable source, but once
again the best deal in gaming.
We were a little touch and gothere in 2024.
I was a little worried but thathas come back around between.
You know, talking about gamesthat Andrew and I are both

(01:18:10):
playing when we're talking aboutSouth of Midnight, you just
beat that.
Maybe that's an episode we'llhave to come.
You, you know a game we'll haveto visit down the line, but
yeah, we'll just use that, likeyou said, eric, to transition to
the future of this franchise.
Now, andrew, we kind of touchedon it before the episode
started.
There was like a big like fussabout what is the hub, what is

(01:18:30):
the animus hub, what's thatgoing to be, and I think
probably people got like alittle worried because you know
you're thinking about what's?
That shooter that came out lastyear, that's already dead and
gone from ubisoft, that we talkabout like uh yeah, what was it?

Speaker 1 (01:18:46):
what was it called?

Speaker 2 (01:18:47):
I already forgot the name of it.
What was it called?
Eric uh?

Speaker 3 (01:18:51):
was it?
Was it like the call of duty?
Yeah it was, yeah, it was liketeam hero basedbased.
Call of Duty.
Didn't we start?

Speaker 1 (01:18:58):
with the X, X-Defying Yep.
That's what I needed.

Speaker 2 (01:19:00):
So we're thinking about the disasters of X-Defying
, we're thinking about all themicrotransactions they threw
into the Division 2 and GhostRecon Wildlands.
What was the sequel?
Ghost Recon.

Speaker 3 (01:19:15):
Breakpoint.

Speaker 2 (01:19:16):
They're throwing all that stuff in there.
So everyone's like what is?
What the hell is the hub?
It's just a game launcher, guys, so don't, I'll just let you
guys know.
And it looks pretty cool, right, andrew?
I think it looks pretty neat.
I don't own any of the otherassassin's tree games that are
in the hub, but if I did, it's areally cool launcher.
So just kind of like quellpeople's concern about what that
is, cool launchers.

(01:19:39):
So just kind of like quellpeople's concern about what that
is in terms of people maybejust being a little concerned
about that.
But what I'm looking forward toand I guess it's hex.
I don't I've heard people callit hexa, but there is a kind of
like a paranormal, like witchhunter style game coming out,
more horror centric to theassassin's creed franchise, as
well as a bunch of otherprojects that have kind of been

(01:20:00):
leaked and teased.
So what do you know about those?
Which ones are you excitedabout?
I don't know what your interestis in terms of you know the,
the horror space, but what doyou think about any of these
projects?
I'll just start.
We'll just start with hex.
Like what do you know aboutthat, or is it does?
Do you have any interest in inthat no, I'm very.

Speaker 1 (01:20:19):
I mean, I'm a fan of this franchise.
I'm pretty much like locked inat this point.
I have to, I have to be.
They'd have to do a lot for meto get rid of all this history,
but this one looks really cool.
Some of the things that I wasreading about it is that it's
supposed to be more linear andhave, just like, some elements
of open world exploration.
It's a single femaleprotagonist, so shout out to

(01:20:42):
Ubisoft for finally committingto that.
After giving us the ride, thePSP game right, yeah, they well,
they did the mobile game or notmobile, but yeah, like the
handheld game with a femaleprotagonist.
That's the only time they hadto do the siblings.
Then they had to do the likeoptional brother sister choice

(01:21:03):
in odyssey and then in valhallathey the game is written like
you're supposed to be femaleavor and then you're supposed to
be the male when you're in,like the fantastical world.
But they let you pick there aswell.
And then even now with shadows,they couldn't.
They couldn't just have asingle female protagonist there.
So kudos to them in 2026 orwhenever this game comes out,

(01:21:25):
finally, finally making ithappen.
But no, the setting seemsreally unique and really
interesting and not likeanything that we've seen in
assassin's Creed yet.
So maybe this is your, maybethis is your game, eric.

Speaker 2 (01:21:38):
Yeah, maybe you want to do witchy stuff and hunt,
honestly, like, give us anAssassin's Creed style game,
like in the setting of sinners.
That's not what this is.
But I'm saying like if like thesame, not the setting, but like
the same tone.
Like tonally, I can, yeah, butI'm saying like if like the same
, not the setting, but like thesame tone like tonally Vampire
hunters.
Yeah, I can get on board withthat.

Speaker 3 (01:22:00):
I guess, again, at this point, nothing about the
story is going to move me.
It's going to be a combinationof the setting which could
intrigue me, and then it's goingto be the gameplay.
So, like, it just doesn't seemlike Assassin's Creed has any
intention on revolutionizingtheir gameplay.
It doesn't seem like Ubisoft isinterested in doing those

(01:22:23):
things.
They just had a Star Warsproperty given to them and we
saw what they did with that.
So, again, it's just, it iswhat it is, maybe, maybe, we'll,
we'll, we'll stick with a maybe.

Speaker 2 (01:22:36):
Yeah, and then I think the other project that I
see here is a, a mobile game, sowe don't have to discuss that
one yeah, it's like a.

Speaker 1 (01:22:43):
It's like it looks like a real assassin's creed
game from what I've seen.
But yeah, I won't play that didyou, andrew?

Speaker 3 (01:22:50):
did you go into the mobile stuff and is there one?
If you did that?

Speaker 1 (01:22:54):
really stands out.

Speaker 3 (01:22:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:22:57):
I did not go into the mobile, really I played.
So I did play the one set inthe New Orleans era we were
talking about.
It was like an Assassin's Creed3 spinoff that it came to
handhelds and then it came to360.
They ported it to consoles andso I played it there.

Speaker 3 (01:23:16):
Yeah, Liberation liberation.

Speaker 1 (01:23:17):
Yeah, I never beat it , but it was cool.
It definitely felt like ahandheld game, like it was a lot
jankier and simpler.
Um, and then they did three ofthe like side scrolling kind of
I don't think like the currentprince of persia, those were.
Those were chronicles right yeah, they weren't metroidvania, I

(01:23:37):
don't think, it was more justlike running platforming kind of
.
And I played a few hours of thechina one and then was like,
yeah, I'm not gonna.
I think they gave them all awaywith like games with gold or
something back in the day, so Ihave them.
But I only played the china onejust because it had assassin's
creed on it.
Then I was like, oh yeah, thisisn't, this isn't for me, this

(01:24:00):
isn't what I'm looking for.

Speaker 2 (01:24:01):
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
I have a lot of optimism aboutHex, just specifically because
of the setting and going.
You know, when we're talkingabout reinventing the gameplay,
they could do that when you'retalking about witch hunts and
paranormal stuff, so that couldbe something that ends up being

(01:24:21):
really, really neat.
I would be.
I hope they're taking theirtime and that has been very
beneficial for this series,along with a whole bunch of
others.
The proof of concept, likepeople I think are when it comes
to games, are more patient thanthey ever have been.
So the thing is, the people incharge are not, so they do not
share those same values when itcomes to just taking time and

(01:24:44):
pumping out a game and andgetting those things out there.

Speaker 1 (01:24:47):
So well, and when you're patient, you want that to
be paid off with something solike, if you're patient, and
then you get this turd of a gamelike star wars outlaws, you're
like what was the point of being?
Like why?
you know, and I think the onlykind of potential like ubisoft
has been in like major hot waterand really struggling recently

(01:25:08):
with their games being formulaic, being buggy, blah blah rumors
have been being sold this year,right like, yeah, they've been
able they restructured and likemade their own kind of
subsidiary company that theycould, that they, I think, went
into business with tencent andlike maintain their ips that way
, and so they're they'restruggling and I think they
hopefully they've heard thatlike we like your properties and

(01:25:32):
your franchises, but they need,like they need a soul again,
they need imagination, they needsomething exciting, kind of
like what eric is saying, and sohopefully they're taking that
to heart and they're going toactually try to release some
quality games to bringthemselves back from the brink,
rather than just keep onshoveling the same crap and

(01:25:52):
hoping that eventually it willsell somehow, like I mean, yeah,
we'll have to see I think whatis telling about with shadow
specifically, which I amenjoying, is between the three
story-driven games I'm playingright now south of midnight,
clear, obscure and assassin'screed, shadows shadows is the

(01:26:12):
one I want to play the least andI think that's kind of telling
and that kind of just like sumsit up right there.

Speaker 2 (01:26:17):
I'm enjoying all three, but shadows is the one I
want to play the least and Ithink that's kind of telling and
that kind of just like sums itup right there.
I'm enjoying all three, butshadows is the one is like, oh
yeah, I guess I'll get someshadows in tonight, as opposed
to like man.
I can't wait to play more clear, obscure.
I can't wait to get into southand midnight more and, to be
fair, those are new ips.
They're original stories, youknow.
Gameplay wise, they could notbe more different, all three of

(01:26:38):
them.
So, you know, I think that'sjust kind of like the state of
like we alluded to earlier, eric, of what kind of games we
prioritize right now, you know,as opposed to a formula that is
very familiar and it's stillgood, but it's like I want to
try something new, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:26:55):
Well, well, I think it goes back to what I said
earlier about assassin's creedstory structure and how they've
broken it up into like thesesmall little assassination hunts
that you can play in any order,and so because of that they
can't really do anything deepwith the story.
Yeah, because assassin's creedshadows opens really strong and
it has good characters, but theyjust they kind of waste that

(01:27:18):
potential with the way that theydecided to structure the game
and the story, whereas somethinglike a south of midnight or a
clear obscure is much well, atleast south of midnight is much
simpler in the gameplaydepartment.
But it makes up for that withlike intentional storytelling
and like very stylized animationand music and like things
around the story and assassin'screed like they're set, they

(01:27:43):
sacrifice some of that depth tothe story in the name of freedom
, like gameplay freedom, and sohopefully they can find a nice
balance.
I like having freedom in mygames, but I also like to
experience a good narrative.

Speaker 2 (01:27:59):
Yeah, I don't mind being told where to go, as long
as that destination is worthgoing, is worth getting to.
But, eric, yeah, I mean, thisconversation accomplished a lot
of what I wanted to discuss andI don't think this is going away
anytime soon.
Let's talk about the movie.
No, we don't have to do that.
It should have just been a TVshow.

Speaker 1 (01:28:22):
Might as well make that a separate episode.
Yeah, we'll talk about themovie.

Speaker 2 (01:28:25):
Yeah, we'll do a late to the party.
There you go, assassin's Creed,because I have not seen it, so
yeah, let's do that and make memiserable.

Speaker 1 (01:28:32):
You guys have fun with that.
Wait, you're not coming on forthe Assassin's Creed movie.
I mean, I don't know.
I think I might be busy thatnight.

Speaker 2 (01:28:42):
We'll work around your schedule.

Speaker 1 (01:28:43):
We'll figure it out, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:28:46):
Well, eric, is there anything else you want to go
over when it comes to thisfranchise, either that you want
to mention or ask Andrew about,since he's the expert we brought
in that we we knew would beable to rely on to kind of get
us up to speed.
Anything else about this seriesthat you want to discuss before
we wrap up?

Speaker 3 (01:29:03):
no, I think I threw a couple at you, uh and, and we
kind of talked about kind ofbeating a dead horse.
I would love to get back intoassassin's creed.
I gotta have more than a reasonalmost at this point.
And bringing back clear obscureagain.
Like that team was made withlike 30 devs like and it's it's
killing the game right now andfrom what I was kind of looking

(01:29:25):
up really quickly on the fly,don't know how accurate it
already got a movie inproduction already got a movie
in production it.
You know it sold so many copiesalready, despite being on game
pass and the oblivion remastercoming out days before to fuck
its release.
And then, on top of all of that,again the amount of devs that
were were in on this gamecompared to like a big property,

(01:29:49):
like shadows, is just crazy andfrom what I could see here, it
looks like that clear, obscure,may, double shadows like peak,
actual, like stream time.
So as far as like concurrentplayers, it looks like.
So again, I don't know howaccurate that is, but I wouldn't
be surprised because it's atleast bringing something new to

(01:30:10):
the fold.
I would love to see that withthis franchise.
But, even though I haven'tplayed a game since black flag,
this was an episode phil that wehave been needing to do, kind
of like a bucket list episode.
Assassins creed is a hugefranchise for us when we talk
about why we created this seriesand I'm glad we brought someone
on that could fill in the gapsfor us, because we could have

(01:30:32):
definitely done an episode aboutthe first phase of Assassin's
Creed till Black Flag and thatwould have been fine.
But it doesn't paint the wholepicture for Ubisoft and this
franchise and I'm glad we wereable to do that.

Speaker 2 (01:30:46):
You guys want to guess what the letterboxed
average is for the Assassin'sCreed movie 2.3.

Speaker 1 (01:30:53):
I was going to say like 2.

Speaker 2 (01:30:55):
It is exactly 2.
Nice, exactly 2.
And our friend Caleb has alsogiven it a 2.3.
I was going to say like 2.

Speaker 1 (01:30:56):
It is exactly 2.
Nice.

Speaker 2 (01:30:58):
Exactly 2.
And our friend Caleb has alsogiven it a 2.
Aman Valani, ms Marvel 1.5.
And Cinema Joe 1.5.
I'm going to follow their lead.
I haven't ranked this yet, solet me score Assassin's Creed
2016.

Speaker 1 (01:31:12):
I don't think you can rank it until you've re-watched
it.
I'm pretty sure you know all ofus.

Speaker 2 (01:31:18):
So Super Bracket Bros Cinematic Universe a meetup.

Speaker 3 (01:31:21):
Black Adam, we gotta finish Black Adam.

Speaker 2 (01:31:23):
We gotta watch the second half of Black Adam and
we'll watch half of Assassin'sCreed.
I think I know why the meetuphasn't happened center it all
around Black Adam and theAssassin's Creed film.
Oh boy, so well, andrew.
Thank you so much for takingthe time centering it all around
Black Adam and the Assassin'sCreed film.
Oh boy, so well, andrew.
Thank you so much for takingthe time to again catch us up
with Assassin's Creed andeverything that we missed, and

(01:31:43):
I'm excited to discuss Shadowsmore in depth with you a little
bit later in the month orearlier, depending on when that
happens.
But we'll figure it out.
It's happening, but please letus know what's going on with
your friendly neighborhoodgamers.
Just as a reminder, thisepisode comes out on the 21st of
May, so I don't know how farout you have your episode
scheduled, but that's wheneverything is happening for as

(01:32:06):
far as the release date for this.
So let everybody know, asalways, if they don't know
already, where they can findyour friendly neighborhood
gamers and what you guys are upto.

Speaker 1 (01:32:13):
Yeah, for sure.
So we are.
We have a podcast.
You can get that anywhere thatyou get the wait for a podcast.
We're on youtube as well, uh,and all of that can be found on
our website, fngamerscomfngamerscom so really easy to
find.
We talk about video games.
We've talked about assassin'screed quite a bit.
Um, I have a video I made whereI ranked all of the Assassin's

(01:32:35):
Creed games pre-Mirage.
I think it's one of our morepopular videos on YouTube.
We're planning, like Phil said,we're going to have Phil come on
.
We're going to talk aboutShadows a little bit more in
depth.
I would love to do a kind ofretrospective style episode like
this on our show.
So if you enjoyed thisconversation, we probably have

(01:32:56):
something over there that you'llenjoy as well.
We've also had Phil and Eric onthe show for an interview.
That was pretty early on, butthe episode's still up there.
You can find it.
So definitely if you're lookingfor a place to start with
familiar voices.
They've both also been on theshow for a variety of other
topics and shenanigans as well,and game, I think, like God of

(01:33:18):
war and some of those others.
So a lot of good content, a lotof fun crossovers.
So if you enjoy video game,talk like what we did here today
.
We'd really appreciate youchecking out our stuff as well.
Thank you guys for having me.
This has been a ton of fun.
I always enjoy chatting withyou guys and I always enjoy
chatting about Assassin's Creed.
So, chatting with you guys andI always enjoy chatting about
Assassin's.

Speaker 2 (01:33:36):
Creed.
So it was a double whammy.
Shenanigans is a good way toexplain everything that we do
with the SBB, sbbcu nailed it weneed to have Jordan commission
a logo.
Do we add Read it and Reap tothe?
They gotta get to at least 50episodes, yeah they gotta get
some legs under them first.

Speaker 1 (01:33:55):
Yeah, before they earn their colors.
We got to get to at least 50episodes, right?
Yeah, they got to get some legsunder them first.

Speaker 2 (01:34:00):
So before they earn their colors, no one just gets
to watch the second half ofBlack Adam.

Speaker 3 (01:34:04):
Yeah, let's let them get to like 50 episodes.
Maybe get invited to a holidayspecial, then we'll talk.

Speaker 1 (01:34:11):
Oh yeah, you have to watch the first half of Black
Adam at least three times beforeyou can watch the second half.

Speaker 2 (01:34:18):
So, as always in that interview Andrew mentioned, we
put in every single Game Roomepisode because we had a whole
lot of fun on that one.
But, yeah, you'll findeverything you need for Friendly
Neighborhood Gamers and theWayForward podcast in the show
notes of this episode.
For us, make sure you clickthat Linktree link and keep up
with us over on social media,specifically on Instagram,

(01:34:39):
tiktok, our Discord channel overon YouTube and we are now
streaming quite a bit over onTwitch.
As Andrew mentioned earlier.
We hit that affiliate statusabout a month ago from when this
episode came out, but we aredoing a whole lot over there,
which has been a whole lot offun.
If you want to support the shows, head on over to apple podcast
and spotify and give both showsfive star reviews.

(01:35:01):
It is so beneficial to the uh,the progress of a podcast and
also getting more eyes on andears on the shows as well.
And if you want to go ahead andtag us, let us know that you're
listening, let your friendsknow that you're listening.
We would appreciate that.
But make sure to also followeric and i's personal pages as
we continue our personalprofessional journeys, me with
voice acting and then ericputting out more and more

(01:35:22):
content over on social media,and all of that is uh.
We appreciate all the supportwe have gotten so far, but if
you're finding yourself wantingto get some more content or even
get these episodes way earlier,eric will let you know how you
can get all of that and thenwrap us up.

Speaker 3 (01:35:38):
Yeah.
So all the free stuff is verymuch appreciated, but if you
want to go the extra mile, gobeyond and support the show Over
on Patreon, you're able to getbehind the scenes looks and very
early access now that we'vegotten ahead of our schedule for
episodes like this one.
Thank you to patrons of the showcurrently Briar, stefan T3Kato,

(01:35:59):
vintage Macaroni, corey fromthe World Is my Burrito and Nick
Casbarro, the author of theVidularium series.
We really appreciate each andevery one of you for your
monthly support and, if youwanna join the crew, we got a
lot of fun stuff that's comingaround the corner.
Convention season is upon us atthis time, so definitely look

(01:36:20):
out for things like vlogs thatare being introduced to our
Patreon account and, again, justsome extra content that we're
going to be throwing out there.
But, with all that being said,we appreciate each and every one
of you for the listen.
Please give your friendlyneighborhood gamers a follow,
and my name is Mr Eric Almighty.
That is my co-host, philipFilipino, please don't forget.

(01:36:40):
We release new episodes everyWednesday on the podcast and all
you have to do is wait for it.

Speaker 1 (01:36:50):
This is the Wait For it Podcast.

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The Game Room Where It Happens - Assassin's Creed

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Game Room Where It Happens - Assassin's Creed