February 2, 2025 • 44 mins
This episode emphasizes the importance of abiding in Christ as a transformative aspect of faith, highlighting the contrast between the Old and New Covenants. Discussions revolve around God’s sovereignty, the power of prayer, and the significance of love in the believer's life while exploring key themes of calling, justification, and glorification in the context of Romans.
• Abiding in Christ as essential to spiritual growth
• Distinction between Old and New Covenants and their implications
• The role of God’s sovereignty in a believer's life
• Exploring the nature of God's power as illustrated in Scripture
• Understanding calling, justification, and glorification according to Paul
• Emphasizing love as the driving force behind Christian living
Your identity is child of God.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Announcement (00:01):
Hello and welcome to the Waking Up to Grace
podcast, where we celebrate andexplore the finished work of our
Lord Jesus Christ.
Tune in to the Waking Up toGrace podcast on every major
platform.
You can also listen to ourepisodes and read our full
transcripts atwakinguptogracecom.
And now here's Lenny.
Lenny (00:23):
Welcome back to the podcast, everyone.
Melissa (00:26):
Welcome back.
Lenny (00:27):
This week we're going to be getting back into our Roman
study, going through Romans,chapter 1, verses 1 through 7.
Jesus is Lord and he chose you,Melissa.
Melissa (00:38):
Thanks be to God for that.
Lenny (00:40):
Amen.
So last week we got into 1 John1-9 a bit and abiding became a
big topic of conversation.
Melissa (00:48):
Yes.
Lenny (00:49):
So, going into this episode, I thought it'd be
relevant to sum up that our Lordis always abiding in us as
believers, and as believers,we're always abiding in Christ,
aren't we?
Melissa?
Melissa (00:59):
We are.
Lenny (01:00):
When you take that concept.
It becomes very confusing whenyou have John in his first
epistle telling believers toabide in Christ.
Yes, and I think that gets alot of people hung up, and it
took me a while to process itmyself, but I came to realize
that it's not as confusing as itseems.
We're saved when we believe,but believing in Yeshua is
(01:25):
contrary to our human intellect.
So we have to train our mindsto think in line with this new
divine nature.
We have to live out our beliefin order to bear the fruits of
the Spirit.
By this I mean we need todepend on our sovereign Lord.
We need to rely on Him for allthings, look to Him for all
things, pray in all things andbelieve that he is our life
(01:45):
force.
We have to believe it right,amen.
We have to have faith that hisspirit living in and through us
is a powerful, life-changingforce.
It's not so much about theamount of faith, as it is the
object of our faith, and fromwhat I've learned, the object of
our faith should be thefinished work of Christ Yeshua
(02:06):
Agreed, not our own works.
His finished work becomes thedriving force, because that's
where we learn the magnitude ofthat love of God.
Melissa (02:17):
That's right.
Lenny (02:18):
So there's a lot of confusion between the Old and
the New Covenants.
The cross of Christ was thatdividing line, but it's hard for
people to see it.
In light of that, most peopleare going to tell you to focus
on your behavior.
Get your behavior right andthen God will bless you and
you'll be right with God.
You'll be seen as holy beforeGod through your behavior.
(02:39):
So basically, once you become aChristian, it's your
responsibility to stop sinning.
You got to stop sinning.
Melissa (02:46):
It's a common thought.
Lenny (02:47):
Yeah, and we see in scripture that sin is not the
end result.
That's not what we're lookingto do.
We're not looking to build uponour sin life.
But from my vantage point, sinis a result of not abiding.
The core problem is that we'renot abiding in Christ and that's
why the sin and that's why theresult will just be more sin.
(03:09):
When we're not abiding, it'swhen we shift our focus away
from our Heavenly Father, awayfrom the finished work of Christ
.
We begin to doubt His finishedwork and put confidence in our
own ability.
That's when sin comes stronglyback into focus and we stumble.
Melissa (03:25):
So it's very important what we're focusing on day to
day, minute to minute.
Lenny (03:31):
Yeah, and you see it in scripture.
You see Paul talking aboutself-effort.
We talk about self-effort a lotand it's usually in regards to
the law when we see it inscripture.
But self-effort in regards tothe law can also be self-effort
in regards to rules andregulations.
I just wanted to clarify thatwhen I'm saying self-effort in a
(03:51):
negative sense, I'm referringto that old self, that old self
that was crucified with Christ,not the new self that was
resurrected by his life, not thenew creation self, because that
self is good.
Our self is not necessarily bad.
I guess is what I'm trying tosay.
It's when we start acting likethat old self, that old self
(04:13):
that's not drawing from the vine, that's when self becomes a
problem well, the old self isdead it's dead, but we seem to
want to resurrect it back up andstart behaving like that dead
person.
Melissa (04:25):
Right, that's a pretty big deal.
Lenny (04:30):
So we're going to be talking about God's sovereignty
today and his power, and so Ithink it's important to mention
that abiding is not automatic.
We're not puppets and robots.
As we read in John's firstepistle and in all of scripture,
belief was something that weneed to cling to.
We're taught to pray for this,we're taught to desire this, and
if we don't desire it, weshould pray for it.
(04:51):
Our Lord doesn't want us to beindependent of him.
He wants us to want him.
His will is for us to call onhim and depend on him, but also
to be alert to his guidance.
I mean, what good would it beif we're praying and we're not
looking for the answer?
We're not looking for what he'stelling us, we're not looking
for what he's teaching us.
What good is prayer if we'renot looking for his response?
So true.
(05:13):
So he gives us this ability toplease him within his sovereign
will, but his will is like theumbrella that preserves and
protects all things under it.
He can and will change our mindat times, and at other times
he'll wait for our response.
Once the Lord opens our eyes andgives us life, scripture
indicates that we can live alife of unbelief.
(05:33):
We don't have to abide in thegrace we were saved by.
We can choose to behave likethat old self and be guided by
rules and regulations.
Those guided by rules andregulations cannot function
under freedom.
That's why they hate the gospelof grace.
Rules are the only thingstopping them from carrying out
sin, so they feel the need toimpose them on others.
(05:55):
Then, on the other hand, we canjust choose to take that gift
of salvation and use our freedomfor sin.
Say gee, thanks God, see youlater.
We can choose to live the waywe feel like living and just be
completely ignorant to what ourLord would desire for us in our
lives.
Both of these paths are led byerror and a lack of mind renewal
.
Melissa (06:14):
That's right.
Lenny (06:16):
So I just wanted to mention those things as kind of
an introduction.
But now we're going to startdigging into our Romans passage.
Let's just dig right in.
What do you think, Melissa?
Our first passage is going tostart digging into our Romans
passage.
Let's just dig right in.
What do you think, Melissa?
Our first passage is going tobe Romans, chapter 1, verses 1
through 4 in the ESV.
Melissa (06:30):
Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an
apostle set apart for the gospelof God, which he promised
beforehand through his prophetsin the holy scriptures
concerning his son.
All right.
Lenny (07:01):
So what we're seeing here is that Paul is declaring that
Jesus is Lord.
Melissa (07:07):
Yes.
Lenny (07:08):
Yeshua is the Lord.
He came in human form, but healso came in the power of God.
Melissa (07:15):
He did.
Lenny (07:16):
What was the ultimate display of that power, according
to this passage?
Melissa (07:21):
Why it was the resurrection from the dead.
Lenny (07:23):
It was his resurrection from the dead.
It was his resurrection fromthe dead, so he was displaying
the power of God through hisresurrection from the dead.
Melissa (07:31):
He was being glorified by the Father right.
Lenny (07:33):
Yes.
So when we think about power, Ithink we all have a pretty good
idea what power would be.
As we know, in the age of signsand wonders, god was displaying
his power miraculously.
There was the first exodus,where Israel came out of Egypt.
There's a 40-year exodus, andthen, from the cross on to the
destruction of Jerusalem, therewas another 40-year exodus.
Melissa (07:56):
The second exodus.
Lenny (07:57):
Full of signs and wonders and miracles.
So God's power was beingdisplayed there mightily.
I know you had looked up thedefinition of power.
Mm-hmm, I did, and you want toread those definitions and then
from there I was going to readsome passages in Scripture, just
to give us an idea of what thatpower is referring to.
Melissa (08:16):
That sounds good.
I looked up power in theWebster's Dictionary and I came
up with some definitions here,such as the ability to act or
produce an effect, a position ofascendancy over others,
authority, a sovereign state,physical might, mental or moral
(08:39):
vigor, the resulting product,force or energy used to do work,
and again energy force, mainmight, muscle and potency.
Lenny (08:54):
If we take that and apply it to God's power, it's
magnified greatly as opposed towhat we consider human power
Absolutely.
So when God's displaying hispower, he's displaying things
that humans can't do.
We were talking this week aboutthe power.
You had mentioned some passagesthat you were looking at.
(09:15):
Did you want to share thosepassages at all?
Melissa (09:18):
I just found it interesting as I was reading in
Romans what we just read thereRomans 1, 1 through 4, where
Paul mentions Christ wasdeclared to be the Son of God in
power, according to the Spiritof holiness, by his resurrection
from the dead.
And then in my readingsthroughout the week I came
(09:39):
across in Ephesians, chapter 3,verse 16, paul's mentioning that
, talking to the believers, he'smentioning that, according to
the riches of his glory, he maygrant you to be strengthened
with power through his spirit inyour inner being.
So that sounded parallel to meto Christ in his power being
(10:04):
resurrected.
And then he strengthens us withhis power as believers through
the Holy Spirit.
Lenny (10:11):
Yeah, and when we were talking about that it became
sort of an argument that we werehaving, Not a vicious argument.
But I had a different thoughton power when we were talking
about power, Because I wasthinking of it as the miraculous
power.
So you're reading that passageand thinking of it as the
miraculous power.
So you're reading that passageand saying, as believers, we
have this power.
We do have the power of theSpirit of God living inside of
(10:32):
us.
Yes, but what's the differencebetween us and the church that
Paul was speaking to?
There were some differencesBecause that early church, in
that first century, during thesecond exodus that we were
talking about, they hadmiraculous powers.
That's right.
We can't necessarily imposethat passage upon ourselves in
(10:54):
that exact context.
So when I was meditating onthat, we were discussing it back
and forth.
At first we thought, oh, wedon't agree on this, but I
wanted you to share that becauseit's actually a really
important conversation aboutpower.
I think it's important tounderstand that, especially when
we're reading scripture,reading letters like Paul's
(11:16):
letter to the Corinthians, andeven in Ephesians.
There they had spiritual giftsgiven to them by God.
Yes, so what is a gift?
It would be something that wasgiven to you that you didn't
work for.
Our salvation was a gift fromGod.
He gave it to you.
So, a spiritual gift, we haveseveral if you look at scripture
knowledge, leadership, prophecy, speaking in tongues, teaching,
(11:42):
wisdom.
Okay.
So if that was a gift given toyou by God, let's just look at
teaching.
If God gave you the gift ofteaching, how good of a teacher
would you be?
Melissa (11:53):
Oh, you'd be the best.
Lenny (11:55):
You'd be the best.
You'd be an excellent teacher.
And if he gave you knowledge,how good would your you be?
Oh, you'd be the best.
You'd be the best, you'd be anexcellent teacher.
And if he gave you knowledge,how good would your knowledge be
?
It would be far above others.
It would be perfect.
It would have been given to youdivinely.
That means God wasn't workingthrough their human abilities
and their human intellect inorder to give them these things.
I know that there's a lot ofcharismatics out there that
(12:15):
understand this concept, becauseI've had somebody tell me one
time that God gave me the giftof knowledge.
He told me that I've never readthe Bible before, but I picked
it up and started reading andGod gave me a divine
understanding of the scripture.
He understood that God's giftof knowledge was something that
was given to you.
(12:36):
You could set your Bible on thenightstand and go to bed and
wake up with knowledge withoutever having read it.
Melissa (12:42):
Wow.
Lenny (12:43):
So can you see what I mean by gift?
Yes, so I don't believe we havethose gifts today.
I believe that was part of thesecond exodus.
They were signs and wonders.
It was God displaying his powerthrough that second exodus in a
big way.
They were miracles.
Those aren't the norm, but atthat time they were the norm.
They were healing people.
(13:03):
They were raising the dead.
There was a guy that fell out awindow.
Paul went down, put his handson him.
He came alive.
Who's doing that today?
Melissa (13:12):
We're not seeing that today.
What we talked about that wasjumpstarting the church.
Lenny (13:16):
Yeah, we're not seeing that today but we talked about
that was jumpstarting the church.
Yeah, so when we look at thesecond exodus you know you have
the cross on to the destructionof Jerusalem, there was a time
period where the new covenantwas established in itself.
There was a transition period.
The new covenant began at thecross and then was established
in itself on until thedestruction of the temple, when
God divorced the people ofIsrael.
(13:37):
The body of Christ became thechurch, believers became the
church.
Melissa (13:42):
Right.
Lenny (13:48):
So they had miraculous gifts during the age of signs
and wonders.
There was miraculous giftsgoing on in Paul's letter to the
Corinthians.
They were having a hard timeunderstanding how to organize
all this stuff that they hadgoing on.
When we say spiritual giftsdon't exist today in the
supernatural way, I think it'seasy to be discouraged.
I know when I first heard theconcept I was like what are you
trying to say?
The Spirit of God is justdormant, powerless, dead.
Melissa (14:09):
Yeah, we talked about that.
Lenny (14:11):
To speak on what you were saying.
We have the power of the Spiritof God working in us.
Melissa (14:17):
We do.
Lenny (14:18):
It's common that people say well, what's your spiritual
gift?
You can take a test to see whatyour spiritual gift is.
But if you're not even aChristian, you could take that
test and you would have aspiritual gift.
So how does that make any sense?
Melissa (14:31):
Right.
Lenny (14:33):
But what we see is that the Spirit of God is still a
force of power working within us.
We have a counselor.
Now, basically, is how I wouldsee it.
The unbelieving world is notcounseled.
They have no guide.
They have no leadership,nowhere to turn.
They have no idea where they'reat, where they're going,
they're lost.
I once was blind and now I seethey don't have a counselor to
(14:57):
guide them.
So we have the Spirit of Godliving in and through us,
counseling us, guiding us,teaching us.
So when we read our scripture,we can pray and we can
understand, we can desire, andGod will give us these things,
but he's going to teach usthrough our human abilities.
We're going to have to read inorder to understand scripture.
Melissa (15:21):
Right.
Lenny (15:22):
He's going to teach us that way.
He's going to teach you Readand then I will give you
understanding.
But in those days, you thinkabout how many people were
illiterate.
They didn't have Bibles, andGod needed that church to grow
fast, so he gave them knowledge.
Melissa (15:38):
That's right.
Lenny (15:44):
I think a lot of people are discouraged when they read
their Bible, when they hearsomebody teaching scripture and
they seem so much smarter thanthem.
You could say, oh, I'm nevergoing to be that smart.
But I don't think that weshould be discouraged in that
way, because we all haveabilities within us.
The Spirit will guide us, hewill counsel us, he will teach
us.
But maybe it's not all in thesame way either.
When you think about thespiritual gifts and you look at
(16:05):
what Paul has written to thateffect, they were all different,
they all had differentspiritual gifts.
I mean there's just a ton ofthem.
There's a ton of spiritualgifts.
You had administration,apostleship, discernment,
evangelism, exhortation, faithgiving, healing, helps,
hospitality, interpretation,knowledge, mercy, prophecy,
(16:30):
teaching, tongues, wisdom.
I mean there's a multitude ofdifferent things and they didn't
all have them all.
Melissa (16:37):
They all were parts of the body working together.
Lenny (16:39):
Yes, and so from that we can still take that the body of
Christ is going to be diverse.
Humans all have differentcharacteristics and it seems to
me possible that God was usingtheir human abilities and super
accelerating them somehow.
It's possible that he was justdoing that and today we just
have our own human abilities.
Some might be better at otherthings, but we're all going to
(17:03):
have a place in the body ofChrist.
We're all going to have a place.
We just need to pray that Godshows it to us.
Where's our place Right?
Where are we going to bear ourfruit?
But to that effect, you aregoing to read further into that
passage about something thatPaul taught on was the most
important element.
Melissa (17:21):
Alright.
So back in Ephesians, chapter 3, I'll start at verse 13 and go
a little further than I readbefore.
So I ask you not to lose heartover what I'm suffering for you,
which is your glory, for what Iam suffering for you, which is
your glory.
For this reason, I bow my kneesbefore the Father, from whom
every family in heaven and onearth is named, that, according
(17:44):
to the riches of his glory, hemay grant you to be strengthened
with power through his Spiritin your inner being, so that
Christ may dwell in your heartsthrough faith, that you, being
rooted and grounded in love, mayhave strength to comprehend
with all the saints what is thebreadth and length and height
(18:07):
and depth, and to know the loveof Christ that surpasses
knowledge, and that you may befilled with all the fullness of
God.
Lenny (18:16):
Yes, and then in 1 Corinthians 13, he says and that
you may be filled with all thefullness of God.
Yes, and then in 1 Corinthians13, he says and if I have
prophetic powers and understandall mysteries and all knowledge,
and if I have faith so as toremove mountains, but have not
love, I am nothing.
So we see this important theme,that love is so important.
(18:37):
And it's the love of Christ,it's the love of our Lord, and
it's that love working in andthrough us.
Melissa (18:44):
That's right.
Lenny (18:45):
Is where we're going to be the most vibrant, bear the
most fruit.
So whatever we do, we shouldmake sure we're doing it in love
.
Melissa (18:53):
Yeah, we found that to be so important in our own
growth, in our own life.
Yes, the importance of love.
And if you're not feelingloving towards people that are
brothers and sisters in Christ,people that you want to help,
you should pray for the love.
Lenny (19:07):
Yes, so in that passage I remember we were talking about.
Melissa (19:10):
Another interesting conversation we had was how that
passage seems to be talking tonon-Christians at times passage
seems to be talking tonon-Christians at times Verse 16
, that according to the richesof his glory, he may grant you
to be strengthened with powerthrough his spirit in your inner
being, so that Christ may dwellin your hearts through faith.
Lenny (19:30):
I know one thing that I always thought was fascinating
on the note of spiritual giftsis that faith was a spiritual
gift, Right, A spiritual gift offaith.
And then there is saving faith.
Faith is the vehicle that leadsus to salvation.
God opens our eyes throughfaith, Gives us faith, opens our
eyes.
But then there's this spiritualgift of faith and we're told
(19:53):
that it was given in differentmeasures.
Same faith, essentially, but ina different way.
If it was a spiritual gift offaith, it wasn't a faith that
God was building on through ourhuman abilities.
It wasn't a faith that God wasteaching you through Scripture.
It wasn't a faith that God wasteaching you through experience.
They needed to be equipped forthis radical experience that was
(20:17):
going on around them.
In that first century ofChristianity, when the church is
building, Satan and all hisdemonic realms running rampant I
mean, it was just total chaosgoing on and so God was giving
people faith as a gift like here.
You're going to need this toget through these times.
Melissa (20:33):
Right, like we said, he was jumpstarting the church and
he had that limited time windowwhen he wanted things
established.
Lenny (20:41):
And I still think we can pray for faith.
I still think we can pray forthose things, but what you see
happening is usually it's goingto be a taught faith.
I don't think there's a wholelot of miracles going on.
God could perform a miracle ifhe wants to still, and we've
definitely experienced things inour lives where, like, wow,
that God really opened my eyesthere, right.
But it's this life experiencethat he's using to teach us
(21:04):
these things, to gradually wakeus up to grace, to grow us in
grace.
However you want to say it,we're developing and growing
like a plant grows.
Melissa (21:13):
Yes.
Lenny (21:13):
And in those times he kind of just gave them a lot of
fertilizer.
I guess you could say yeah,that makes sense.
Melissa (21:21):
But now the church is established and as believers in
complete finished work of JesusChrist, we don't see the earth
going anywhere.
So, there's no time crunchgoing on, so we believe God
teaches us more graduallythrough uh, the abilities he's
given us yeah, the exodus isover, we're here.
Lenny (21:41):
Yeah, we are in the promised land.
We don't need the manna and thecoil.
We don't, you know, we don'tneed all those signs and wonders
as switchfoot says, salvationis here yeah.
So love is a very important andessential part of the Christian
faith.
Keeps us in check, helps us torealize if we're on the right
track or the wrong track.
(22:02):
Sometimes it's like, oh, I'mnot feeling the love.
What's going on?
Melissa (22:06):
Right.
Lenny (22:07):
But power.
Getting back to power, you knowGod was displaying his power.
We read the definition of power.
I just want to read a few quickverses just to give an example
of God displaying his power inscripture.
So if you want to read these,these are all from Luke,
actually in the NASB translation.
If you'd like to read some ofthese, melissa, Great idea.
Melissa (22:29):
Luke, chapter 1, verse 35.
The angel answered and said toher the Holy Spirit will come
upon you.
Lenny (22:46):
God displaying his power through the immaculate
conception, the virgin birth,christ being born through a
woman.
Yes, that's power.
Melissa (22:56):
That is power, luke 4, 36.
An amazement came upon them alland they began talking with one
another, saying what is thismessage?
For?
With authority and power, hecommands the unclean spirits and
they come out.
Lenny (23:12):
So God is casting out demons, displaying his power.
Melissa (23:16):
Yes, luke 6, 19.
And all the people were tryingto touch him, for power was
coming from him and healing themall.
Lenny (23:26):
Christ had power coming from him that was healing people
.
Melissa (23:31):
Just by being touched.
Lenny (23:33):
Yeah, In the next passage we see it again.
Melissa (23:36):
Luke 8, 46.
But Jesus said Someone didtouch me.
46, christ was aware that powerhad gone out from him.
Lenny (23:46):
A woman had touched him.
She had a debilitating illnesswhere she was bleeding
constantly.
She touched him and was healed.
Melissa (23:54):
Yeah, luke 9, 1.
And he called the twelvetogether and gave them power and
authority over all the demonsand to heal diseases.
Lenny (24:04):
So that's when he sent out the twelve.
That was before Pentecost.
He sent out the twelve, then hesent out the seventy.
Right they were given power.
That was before they indwelledin the Holy Spirit.
Melissa (24:15):
It was.
Lenny (24:16):
But it was still spiritual power.
Melissa (24:18):
Right.
Luke 24, 49.
And behold, I am sending forththe promise of my Father upon
you, but you are to stay in thecity until you are clothed with
power from on high.
Lenny (24:31):
So they were going to be clothed with Christ, they were
going to receive the Holy Spirit.
Yeah, christ was the power.
They were going to be clothedwith Christ.
Melissa (24:35):
They were going to receive the Holy Spirit.
Lenny (24:36):
Yeah, christ was the power.
They were going to be clothedwith him.
Paul speaks about clotheyourselves with Christ.
Yes, so yeah, they were goingto be given the Spirit at
Pentecost.
So now we'll be getting intothe rest of the passage.
Romans 1, 6, and 7, and this isthe ESV translation reads
including you who are called tobelong to Jesus Christ, to all
(25:00):
those in Rome who are loved byGod and called to be saints.
Grace to you and peace from God, our Father and the Lord Jesus
Christ".
So to all those in Rome who areloved by God and called to be
saints.
That's who he's writing to.
So when we think about called,we hear that God calls all
people to himself through thecross of Christ.
(25:21):
It's a calling that all peoplereceive.
Right, we hear that the crossof Christ Jesus loves you.
You could say that to everybodyand it's true.
It's a common thing that youhear right.
Melissa (25:31):
In universalist circles .
Lenny (25:34):
It's funny you should say that actually because it's a
universalist term, but it's usedin Arminian and free will
theology as well.
The two are actually closertogether than a lot of people
realize and we're going to diginto that in this passage a
little bit.
We're going to fast forward alittle bit into Romans, chapter
8, to try to figure out whatthis calling is.
Melissa (25:56):
All right.
Lenny (25:58):
I think it's important to understand what called is.
So we read Romans 8, verse 27.
Melissa (26:05):
If you'd like to read that, melissa, this will be in
the ESV as well, and he whosearches hearts knows what is
the mind of the Spirit, becausethe Spirit intercedes for the
saints according to the will ofGod, and we know that for those
who love God, all things worktogether for good, for those who
are called according to hispurpose, for those he foreknew
(26:29):
he also predestined to beconformed to the image of his
Son in order that he might bethe firstborn among many
brothers.
And those whom he predestinedhe also called, and those whom
he called he also justified, andthose whom he justified he also
glorified.
Lenny (26:49):
This passage is said to be displaying an unbreakable
chain.
Melissa (26:55):
I can see that.
Lenny (26:56):
People have theorized that this is the order of
salvation In order.
So you can see what happens, inwhat order is the theory?
And I can see that and it makessense Because you see this
unbreakable chain, you haveforeknowledge that leads to
predestination, and thepredestination leads to a
(27:16):
calling, and then the callingleads to justification, and then
the calling leads tojustification, and then the
justification leads toglorification.
We start with foreknowledge.
What is foreknowledge?
I know you had definedforeknowledge, melissa, if you'd
like to share what you learnedfrom Webster.
Melissa (27:32):
Yes, I did define all these words.
Yes, I did define all thesewords for new, to have previous
knowledge of anticipate, divinefor see, and I wanted to mention
that in scripture often to knowis to love intimately.
Lenny (27:52):
I would agree with your definition.
Yeah, in regards to scripture,where Webster's is more of a
basic definition, more of aworldly definition.
That's not what I see inscripture and these passages
will help us to understand that.
For knowledge is for loved, forno is a very intimate thing.
(28:14):
If you study the usage of thatterm in scripture, it's very
intimate.
It's not just that he knewsomething about them, it's not
that, oh, I know that they'llact this way, I know that they
will do this certain thing inthe future, so I love them.
It has nothing to do with that.
It's a very intimate love.
Melissa (28:32):
Like in Genesis, where it says Adam knew his wife and
then she bore him a son.
Lenny (28:38):
Yes.
So they were intimate wife, andthen she bore him a son.
Yes, so they were intimate.
Melissa (28:44):
Yes, exactly, they were referring to intimacy.
You see that type of usagequite a bit in scripture.
Lenny (28:47):
Yeah, that's a great example.
Romans 11.2,.
God has not rejected his people, whom he foreknew.
Do you not know what thescripture says of Elijah, how he
appeals to God against Israel?
So he's referring to Israel.
He foreloved yeah, he forelovedIsrael.
And then in 1 Corinthians 8, 3in the ESV.
(29:08):
But if anyone loves God, he isknown by God, so he's connecting
it with love again Right Thenin 2 Timothy, who saved us and
called us to a holy calling, notbecause of our works, but
because of his own purpose andgrace, which he gave us in
Christ Jesus before the agesbegan.
1 Peter 1.2.
(29:28):
According to the foreknowledgeof God, the Father, in the
sanctification of the Spirit,for obedience to Jesus Christ
and for sprinkling with hisblood, may grace and peace be
multiplied to you.
Then 1 Peter 1, verse 20,.
He was foreknown before thefoundation of the world, but was
made manifest in the last timesfor your sake.
So that's about Christ.
(29:49):
Christ was foreknown before thefoundation of the world.
Melissa (29:53):
He was foreknown, he was foreloved.
Lenny (29:56):
So there's something much deeper than just known about.
He wasn't just known about.
Christ existed before thefoundation of the world.
Melissa (30:07):
And the Father loved him.
The Father had a plan.
Lenny (30:10):
There was an intimate relationship between Christ and
the Father before the foundationof the world.
Melissa (30:17):
One of the definitions from Webster that I had read,
for new is divine.
Lenny (30:22):
Yeah.
Foresee so there's somethingmuch deeper than God just
predicted the future.
Melissa (30:27):
Right.
Lenny (30:28):
He didn't just predict the future.
We can dive much deeper intothat once we get further into
Romans, but I just wanted totouch on it.
It's a love that God had wellin advance.
And then that leads us intopredestined, those whom he
foreknew he also predestined.
So if you were foreknown by Godin this way, you were also
predestined to be conformed tothe image of his son.
(30:49):
You were predestined.
So when we get into predestinedthose whom he foreknew, he also
predestined what's thedefinition that you came up with
for predestined, melissa?
Melissa (31:01):
In Webster's it's to settle beforehand, in advance,
to designate, assign or dedicatein advance, to direct or set
apart for a specific purpose.
To direct or set apart for aspecific purpose or place
prophecy, suffer, endure, feel,sustain, experience, taste and
(31:28):
see.
To recognize the nature of tobe aware of the truth,
possessing confidential info.
Lenny (31:37):
It was already known.
He foreknew, he foreloved andhe predestined, he planned,
based on his foreknowledge andhis love for you.
He planned for you to be partof the kingdom.
He planned for you to be withChrist, and so in the verses to
support it, we have Romans 9 23,.
In order to make known theriches of his glory for vessels
(31:59):
of mercy which he has preparedbeforehand for glory, 1
Corinthians 2.7.
But we impart a secret andhidden wisdom of God, which God
decreed before the ages for ourglory Ephesians 1.5.
Esv he predestined us foradoption through Jesus Christ,
according to the purpose of hiswill, ephesians 1.11.
(32:21):
In him we have obtained aninheritance, having been
predestined according to thepurpose of him, who works all
things according to the counselof his will.
So we were preordained and then, from preordained, predestined,
those whom he predestined healso called.
He did.
(32:41):
The logic would follow herethat if you weren't foreknown or
predestined to be conformed tothe image of his son, you
wouldn't have been called.
That's the logic here, if youfollow those in order.
True, so a calling is somethingthat happens next.
Do you have the definition forcalled, melissa?
What does Webster say aboutcalled?
Melissa (33:03):
To utter in a loud, clear voice.
To announce with authority.
To invite or command to meet,to summon, To make a request or
demand.
To demand surrender of forredemption as of a bond.
To speak of or address by name.
To give a name, to regard as orcharacterize as of a certain
(33:27):
kind, describe as shoutinvitation, summons, a request
or a command to come or assemble, a calling on another for
something due or supposed to bedue.
Claim request decision.
Lenny (33:47):
Wow, that's a powerful definition.
Thank you for that.
Melissa (33:51):
Yeah.
Lenny (33:52):
So what does scripture say about it?
In Romans 9.24 we read Even us,whom he has called, not from
the Jews only, but also from theGentiles.
So he called from the Jews andthe Gentiles Called from them,
not just from the Jews, butcalled from the Jews and the
Gentiles.
And then in 1 Corinthians 1.9,god is faithful, by whom you
(34:15):
were called into the fellowshipof his Son, jesus Christ, our
Lord.
Galatians 1.15, that's Paultalking about his apostleship.
Galatians 5.8 Talking toChristians.
2 Thessalonians 2.14.
(34:37):
Hebrews 9.15.
Finally, in 1 Peter 2.9.
(34:58):
Finally, in 1 Peter 2.9, he'stalking about the believers here
.
This calling is a powerfulthing.
It's not just an openinvitation.
(35:20):
I'm not seeing wide openinvitation in any of that.
Are you?
I'm not but, as Martin Luthersaid, I wouldn't want a free
will, even if I could have one.
He understood the pitfalls ofthat doctrine.
He understood the problems inthe doctrine and the error.
He didn't want to be in error.
I'm not saying he was perfectin any way, shape or form, but
that statement was very good.
Melissa (35:43):
He knew predestination.
Lenny (35:44):
Yes.
Anyways, here's the kicker.
Here's the problem that I havewith that doctrine.
Among many points, this is oneextremely strong point.
What we read in our verse 827is that those whom he called, he
also justified.
So this is where you get thatconnotation of universalism.
(36:07):
That's why you said well, yeah,the universalists would
proclaim that.
And you're right If you saythat this word called is an open
invitation.
What you're actuallyproclaiming is universalism.
Melissa (36:22):
Because then everybody would be justified.
Lenny (36:24):
Because those who are called are also justified.
So that means Christ is callingall to justification and all
are receiving it.
All have been justified by thecross.
That's not true.
That's simply not true.
You have to believe in order tobe justified.
(36:44):
You have to have faith inchrist in order to be justified.
Universalism is not truedoctrine, and so we shouldn't go
down that path just to try toprove free will.
There's an error there.
There's a big problem with thatdoctrine.
That's right.
So, having that said, those whoare called, those who believe
(37:07):
they're justified what isjustified, Melissa?
Melissa (37:10):
What would have got for justified is to prove or show
to be just, right or reasonableto pronounce free from guilt or
blame, defend, maintain, support, uphold, condone and excuse
(37:31):
very good, and so in this one Ilooked up the greek word.
Lenny (37:35):
Instead of just cross-referencing passages.
I looked looked up the Greekword that they use for justified
in that passage, and then Ilooked at other passages that
use that word and I found thatnot in all cases was it
interpreted as justified.
It's kind of interesting andI'll get to that.
So Romans 3, verse 4, we readMay it never be.
(37:58):
Rather, let God be found true,though every man be found a liar
, as it is written that you maybe justified in your words and
prevail when you are judged, andhe's talking about God there.
God will be justified in hiswords, god will prevail when
he's judged.
This is about God.
He is true, and every man is aliar.
And then Romans 3, verse 20,.
(38:19):
Because by the works of the lawno flesh will be justified in
his sight, for through the lawcomes the knowledge of sin.
So nobody is justified by thelaw, Romans 3.24,.
Being justified as a gift byhis grace, through the
redemption which is in ChristJesus Romans 3.26,.
For the demonstration, I say,of his righteousness at the
(38:42):
present time, which is in ChristJesus, romans 3.26.
Romans 3.28.
Romans 4.2.
Romans 4.2,.
If Abraham was justified byworks, he has something to boast
about, but not before GodRomans 4.5,.
(39:04):
But to the one who does notwork but believes in him, who
justifies the ungodly, his faithis credited as righteousness
Romans 5.1,.
Therefore, having beenjustified by faith, we have
peace with God through our LordJesus Christ, romans 5.9.
Much more than having now beenjustified by his blood, we shall
(39:25):
be saved from the wrath of Godthrough him.
We were just talking about that.
People were saying that we'restill under the wrath of God as
Christians.
He says right here we're savedfrom the wrath of God through
Christ.
Anyway, romans 6.7.
For he who has died is freedfrom sin.
Now, that's the interesting one.
I was telling you.
Freed is the word that istranslated from the same word
(39:49):
that is justified and justifiesand all these other places.
They considered it freed fromsin.
Kind of interesting.
The interpreter kind of madethe connection.
Justification was kind of likebeing freed from sin.
Pretty good translation, Iguess.
So once we're foreknown, oncewe're foreloved, we're
predestined.
(40:09):
Once we're predestined, we'recalled.
And then once we're called,we're justified.
So if you've been called,you're also justified, and then
those who are justified are alsoglorified.
What's glorified mean inWebster's Melissa?
Melissa (40:26):
Glorified is to raise to heavenly glory, to light up
brilliantly, to represent asglorious, to give glory to, as
in worship, to cause, to be orseem to be better than the
actual condition.
To make glorious by bestowinghonor, praise or admiration.
(40:48):
To bless, magnify, praise,adore, defy, revere, worship,
dignify, exalt.
Lenny (40:59):
And so then our NASB translation in John.
These are all from Gospel ofJohn actually John 7, 39.
John 11.4, john 12.16, john15.8, john 17.1, john 17.4.
(42:04):
It's Christ talking, christtalking again in John 17, 5.
He's going back to his place ofglory, going from man on earth,
man and God, back to glory withthe Father.
(42:25):
He wanted to be back with hisFather again.
Melissa (42:27):
That's right.
Lenny (42:29):
Why is it so important for us to understand God's
sovereignty?
Why does it matter so much thatwe understand that God is
sovereign, that God is incontrol, that God is the one who
foreknows and predestines andcalls and justifies and
glorifies.
Why does it matter?
Well, right after he wroteabout that, paul continued on
(42:50):
and he said what then, shall wesay to these things?
He asked the same question whatshall we say about this?
If God is for us, who can beagainst us?
He who did not spare his ownson but gave him up for us all?
How will he not also, with him,graciously give us all things?
Who shall bring any chargeagainst God's elect?
It is God who justifies.
(43:12):
Who is to condemn Christ?
Jesus is the one who died, morethan that, who was raised, who
is at the right hand of God, who, indeed, is interceding for us?
Who shall separate us from thelove of Christ?
Shall tribulation or distress,or persecution, or famine, or
nakedness, or danger, or sword,as it is written For your sake?
(43:35):
We are being killed all the daylong.
We are regarded as sheep to beslaughtered.
No, in all these things, we aremore than conquerors, through
him who loved us, for I am surethat neither death nor life, nor
angels, nor rulers, nor thingspresent, nor things to come, nor
powers, nor height, nor depth,nor anything else in all
(43:55):
creation will be able toseparate us from the love of God
and Christ Jesus, our Lord.
That's why Paul says it matters, and I agree with him.
Me too, and we don't have toliterally like blow up our minds
trying to figure it all out,but we just have to believe it.
At the end of the day, I guessit's safe to say that Jesus is
(44:17):
Lord and he chose you.
Melissa (44:19):
That's right.
Lenny (44:20):
Your identity is child of God.
So for today, signing out, andI look forward to seeing you
guys next week for some more.
Melissa (44:29):
Have a great day out there.
Announcement (44:31):
Take care of you guys.
Thank you for listening to theWaking Up To Grace podcast,
brought to you by the finishedwork of our Lord Jesus Christ.
If you enjoyed today's episode,we would love to hear from you.
You can send encouragement ourway right from our episodes and
transcripts page or reach Lennyprivately from the contact form
(44:52):
at wakinguptogracecom.
Hello and welcome to the Waking Up to Grace
podcast, where we celebrate andexplore the finished work of our
Lord Jesus Christ.
Tune in to the Waking Up toGrace podcast on every major
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You can also listen to ourepisodes and read our full
transcripts atwakinguptogracecom.
And now here's Lenny.
Lenny (00:23):
Welcome back to the podcast, everyone.
Melissa (00:26):
Welcome back.
Lenny (00:27):
This week we're going to be getting back into our Roman
study, going through Romans,chapter 1, verses 1 through 7.
Jesus is Lord and he chose you,Melissa.
Melissa (00:38):
Thanks be to God for that.
Lenny (00:40):
Amen.
So last week we got into 1 John1-9 a bit and abiding became a
big topic of conversation.
Melissa (00:48):
Yes.
Lenny (00:49):
So, going into this episode, I thought it'd be
relevant to sum up that our Lordis always abiding in us as
believers, and as believers,we're always abiding in Christ,
aren't we?
Melissa?
Melissa (00:59):
We are.
Lenny (01:00):
When you take that concept.
It becomes very confusing whenyou have John in his first
epistle telling believers toabide in Christ.
Yes, and I think that gets alot of people hung up, and it
took me a while to process itmyself, but I came to realize
that it's not as confusing as itseems.
We're saved when we believe,but believing in Yeshua is
(01:25):
contrary to our human intellect.
So we have to train our mindsto think in line with this new
divine nature.
We have to live out our beliefin order to bear the fruits of
the Spirit.
By this I mean we need todepend on our sovereign Lord.
We need to rely on Him for allthings, look to Him for all
things, pray in all things andbelieve that he is our life
(01:45):
force.
We have to believe it right,amen.
We have to have faith that hisspirit living in and through us
is a powerful, life-changingforce.
It's not so much about theamount of faith, as it is the
object of our faith, and fromwhat I've learned, the object of
our faith should be thefinished work of Christ Yeshua
(02:06):
Agreed, not our own works.
His finished work becomes thedriving force, because that's
where we learn the magnitude ofthat love of God.
Melissa (02:17):
That's right.
Lenny (02:18):
So there's a lot of confusion between the Old and
the New Covenants.
The cross of Christ was thatdividing line, but it's hard for
people to see it.
In light of that, most peopleare going to tell you to focus
on your behavior.
Get your behavior right andthen God will bless you and
you'll be right with God.
You'll be seen as holy beforeGod through your behavior.
(02:39):
So basically, once you become aChristian, it's your
responsibility to stop sinning.
You got to stop sinning.
Melissa (02:46):
It's a common thought.
Lenny (02:47):
Yeah, and we see in scripture that sin is not the
end result.
That's not what we're lookingto do.
We're not looking to build uponour sin life.
But from my vantage point, sinis a result of not abiding.
The core problem is that we'renot abiding in Christ and that's
why the sin and that's why theresult will just be more sin.
(03:09):
When we're not abiding, it'swhen we shift our focus away
from our Heavenly Father, awayfrom the finished work of Christ
.
We begin to doubt His finishedwork and put confidence in our
own ability.
That's when sin comes stronglyback into focus and we stumble.
Melissa (03:25):
So it's very important what we're focusing on day to
day, minute to minute.
Lenny (03:31):
Yeah, and you see it in scripture.
You see Paul talking aboutself-effort.
We talk about self-effort a lotand it's usually in regards to
the law when we see it inscripture.
But self-effort in regards tothe law can also be self-effort
in regards to rules andregulations.
I just wanted to clarify thatwhen I'm saying self-effort in a
(03:51):
negative sense, I'm referringto that old self, that old self
that was crucified with Christ,not the new self that was
resurrected by his life, not thenew creation self, because that
self is good.
Our self is not necessarily bad.
I guess is what I'm trying tosay.
It's when we start acting likethat old self, that old self
(04:13):
that's not drawing from the vine, that's when self becomes a
problem well, the old self isdead it's dead, but we seem to
want to resurrect it back up andstart behaving like that dead
person.
Melissa (04:25):
Right, that's a pretty big deal.
Lenny (04:30):
So we're going to be talking about God's sovereignty
today and his power, and so Ithink it's important to mention
that abiding is not automatic.
We're not puppets and robots.
As we read in John's firstepistle and in all of scripture,
belief was something that weneed to cling to.
We're taught to pray for this,we're taught to desire this, and
if we don't desire it, weshould pray for it.
(04:51):
Our Lord doesn't want us to beindependent of him.
He wants us to want him.
His will is for us to call onhim and depend on him, but also
to be alert to his guidance.
I mean, what good would it beif we're praying and we're not
looking for the answer?
We're not looking for what he'stelling us, we're not looking
for what he's teaching us.
What good is prayer if we'renot looking for his response?
So true.
(05:13):
So he gives us this ability toplease him within his sovereign
will, but his will is like theumbrella that preserves and
protects all things under it.
He can and will change our mindat times, and at other times
he'll wait for our response.
Once the Lord opens our eyes andgives us life, scripture
indicates that we can live alife of unbelief.
(05:33):
We don't have to abide in thegrace we were saved by.
We can choose to behave likethat old self and be guided by
rules and regulations.
Those guided by rules andregulations cannot function
under freedom.
That's why they hate the gospelof grace.
Rules are the only thingstopping them from carrying out
sin, so they feel the need toimpose them on others.
(05:55):
Then, on the other hand, we canjust choose to take that gift
of salvation and use our freedomfor sin.
Say gee, thanks God, see youlater.
We can choose to live the waywe feel like living and just be
completely ignorant to what ourLord would desire for us in our
lives.
Both of these paths are led byerror and a lack of mind renewal
.
Melissa (06:14):
That's right.
Lenny (06:16):
So I just wanted to mention those things as kind of
an introduction.
But now we're going to startdigging into our Romans passage.
Let's just dig right in.
What do you think, Melissa?
Our first passage is going tostart digging into our Romans
passage.
Let's just dig right in.
What do you think, Melissa?
Our first passage is going tobe Romans, chapter 1, verses 1
through 4 in the ESV.
Melissa (06:30):
Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an
apostle set apart for the gospelof God, which he promised
beforehand through his prophetsin the holy scriptures
concerning his son.
All right.
Lenny (07:01):
So what we're seeing here is that Paul is declaring that
Jesus is Lord.
Melissa (07:07):
Yes.
Lenny (07:08):
Yeshua is the Lord.
He came in human form, but healso came in the power of God.
Melissa (07:15):
He did.
Lenny (07:16):
What was the ultimate display of that power, according
to this passage?
Melissa (07:21):
Why it was the resurrection from the dead.
Lenny (07:23):
It was his resurrection from the dead.
It was his resurrection fromthe dead, so he was displaying
the power of God through hisresurrection from the dead.
Melissa (07:31):
He was being glorified by the Father right.
Lenny (07:33):
Yes.
So when we think about power, Ithink we all have a pretty good
idea what power would be.
As we know, in the age of signsand wonders, god was displaying
his power miraculously.
There was the first exodus,where Israel came out of Egypt.
There's a 40-year exodus, andthen, from the cross on to the
destruction of Jerusalem, therewas another 40-year exodus.
Melissa (07:56):
The second exodus.
Lenny (07:57):
Full of signs and wonders and miracles.
So God's power was beingdisplayed there mightily.
I know you had looked up thedefinition of power.
Mm-hmm, I did, and you want toread those definitions and then
from there I was going to readsome passages in Scripture, just
to give us an idea of what thatpower is referring to.
Melissa (08:16):
That sounds good.
I looked up power in theWebster's Dictionary and I came
up with some definitions here,such as the ability to act or
produce an effect, a position ofascendancy over others,
authority, a sovereign state,physical might, mental or moral
(08:39):
vigor, the resulting product,force or energy used to do work,
and again energy force, mainmight, muscle and potency.
Lenny (08:54):
If we take that and apply it to God's power, it's
magnified greatly as opposed towhat we consider human power
Absolutely.
So when God's displaying hispower, he's displaying things
that humans can't do.
We were talking this week aboutthe power.
You had mentioned some passagesthat you were looking at.
(09:15):
Did you want to share thosepassages at all?
Melissa (09:18):
I just found it interesting as I was reading in
Romans what we just read thereRomans 1, 1 through 4, where
Paul mentions Christ wasdeclared to be the Son of God in
power, according to the Spiritof holiness, by his resurrection
from the dead.
And then in my readingsthroughout the week I came
(09:39):
across in Ephesians, chapter 3,verse 16, paul's mentioning that
, talking to the believers, he'smentioning that, according to
the riches of his glory, he maygrant you to be strengthened
with power through his spirit inyour inner being.
So that sounded parallel to meto Christ in his power being
(10:04):
resurrected.
And then he strengthens us withhis power as believers through
the Holy Spirit.
Lenny (10:11):
Yeah, and when we were talking about that it became
sort of an argument that we werehaving, Not a vicious argument.
But I had a different thoughton power when we were talking
about power, Because I wasthinking of it as the miraculous
power.
So you're reading that passageand thinking of it as the
miraculous power.
So you're reading that passageand saying, as believers, we
have this power.
We do have the power of theSpirit of God living inside of
(10:32):
us.
Yes, but what's the differencebetween us and the church that
Paul was speaking to?
There were some differencesBecause that early church, in
that first century, during thesecond exodus that we were
talking about, they hadmiraculous powers.
That's right.
We can't necessarily imposethat passage upon ourselves in
(10:54):
that exact context.
So when I was meditating onthat, we were discussing it back
and forth.
At first we thought, oh, wedon't agree on this, but I
wanted you to share that becauseit's actually a really
important conversation aboutpower.
I think it's important tounderstand that, especially when
we're reading scripture,reading letters like Paul's
(11:16):
letter to the Corinthians, andeven in Ephesians.
There they had spiritual giftsgiven to them by God.
Yes, so what is a gift?
It would be something that wasgiven to you that you didn't
work for.
Our salvation was a gift fromGod.
He gave it to you.
So, a spiritual gift, we haveseveral if you look at scripture
knowledge, leadership, prophecy, speaking in tongues, teaching,
(11:42):
wisdom.
Okay.
So if that was a gift given toyou by God, let's just look at
teaching.
If God gave you the gift ofteaching, how good of a teacher
would you be?
Melissa (11:53):
Oh, you'd be the best.
Lenny (11:55):
You'd be the best.
You'd be an excellent teacher.
And if he gave you knowledge,how good would your you be?
Oh, you'd be the best.
You'd be the best, you'd be anexcellent teacher.
And if he gave you knowledge,how good would your knowledge be
?
It would be far above others.
It would be perfect.
It would have been given to youdivinely.
That means God wasn't workingthrough their human abilities
and their human intellect inorder to give them these things.
I know that there's a lot ofcharismatics out there that
(12:15):
understand this concept, becauseI've had somebody tell me one
time that God gave me the giftof knowledge.
He told me that I've never readthe Bible before, but I picked
it up and started reading andGod gave me a divine
understanding of the scripture.
He understood that God's giftof knowledge was something that
was given to you.
(12:36):
You could set your Bible on thenightstand and go to bed and
wake up with knowledge withoutever having read it.
Melissa (12:42):
Wow.
Lenny (12:43):
So can you see what I mean by gift?
Yes, so I don't believe we havethose gifts today.
I believe that was part of thesecond exodus.
They were signs and wonders.
It was God displaying his powerthrough that second exodus in a
big way.
They were miracles.
Those aren't the norm, but atthat time they were the norm.
They were healing people.
(13:03):
They were raising the dead.
There was a guy that fell out awindow.
Paul went down, put his handson him.
He came alive.
Who's doing that today?
Melissa (13:12):
We're not seeing that today.
What we talked about that wasjumpstarting the church.
Lenny (13:16):
Yeah, we're not seeing that today but we talked about
that was jumpstarting the church.
Yeah, so when we look at thesecond exodus you know you have
the cross on to the destructionof Jerusalem, there was a time
period where the new covenantwas established in itself.
There was a transition period.
The new covenant began at thecross and then was established
in itself on until thedestruction of the temple, when
God divorced the people ofIsrael.
(13:37):
The body of Christ became thechurch, believers became the
church.
Melissa (13:42):
Right.
Lenny (13:48):
So they had miraculous gifts during the age of signs
and wonders.
There was miraculous giftsgoing on in Paul's letter to the
Corinthians.
They were having a hard timeunderstanding how to organize
all this stuff that they hadgoing on.
When we say spiritual giftsdon't exist today in the
supernatural way, I think it'seasy to be discouraged.
I know when I first heard theconcept I was like what are you
trying to say?
The Spirit of God is justdormant, powerless, dead.
Melissa (14:09):
Yeah, we talked about that.
Lenny (14:11):
To speak on what you were saying.
We have the power of the Spiritof God working in us.
Melissa (14:17):
We do.
Lenny (14:18):
It's common that people say well, what's your spiritual
gift?
You can take a test to see whatyour spiritual gift is.
But if you're not even aChristian, you could take that
test and you would have aspiritual gift.
So how does that make any sense?
Melissa (14:31):
Right.
Lenny (14:33):
But what we see is that the Spirit of God is still a
force of power working within us.
We have a counselor.
Now, basically, is how I wouldsee it.
The unbelieving world is notcounseled.
They have no guide.
They have no leadership,nowhere to turn.
They have no idea where they'reat, where they're going,
they're lost.
I once was blind and now I seethey don't have a counselor to
(14:57):
guide them.
So we have the Spirit of Godliving in and through us,
counseling us, guiding us,teaching us.
So when we read our scripture,we can pray and we can
understand, we can desire, andGod will give us these things,
but he's going to teach usthrough our human abilities.
We're going to have to read inorder to understand scripture.
Melissa (15:21):
Right.
Lenny (15:22):
He's going to teach us that way.
He's going to teach you Readand then I will give you
understanding.
But in those days, you thinkabout how many people were
illiterate.
They didn't have Bibles, andGod needed that church to grow
fast, so he gave them knowledge.
Melissa (15:38):
That's right.
Lenny (15:44):
I think a lot of people are discouraged when they read
their Bible, when they hearsomebody teaching scripture and
they seem so much smarter thanthem.
You could say, oh, I'm nevergoing to be that smart.
But I don't think that weshould be discouraged in that
way, because we all haveabilities within us.
The Spirit will guide us, hewill counsel us, he will teach
us.
But maybe it's not all in thesame way either.
When you think about thespiritual gifts and you look at
(16:05):
what Paul has written to thateffect, they were all different,
they all had differentspiritual gifts.
I mean there's just a ton ofthem.
There's a ton of spiritualgifts.
You had administration,apostleship, discernment,
evangelism, exhortation, faithgiving, healing, helps,
hospitality, interpretation,knowledge, mercy, prophecy,
(16:30):
teaching, tongues, wisdom.
I mean there's a multitude ofdifferent things and they didn't
all have them all.
Melissa (16:37):
They all were parts of the body working together.
Lenny (16:39):
Yes, and so from that we can still take that the body of
Christ is going to be diverse.
Humans all have differentcharacteristics and it seems to
me possible that God was usingtheir human abilities and super
accelerating them somehow.
It's possible that he was justdoing that and today we just
have our own human abilities.
Some might be better at otherthings, but we're all going to
(17:03):
have a place in the body ofChrist.
We're all going to have a place.
We just need to pray that Godshows it to us.
Where's our place Right?
Where are we going to bear ourfruit?
But to that effect, you aregoing to read further into that
passage about something thatPaul taught on was the most
important element.
Melissa (17:21):
Alright.
So back in Ephesians, chapter 3, I'll start at verse 13 and go
a little further than I readbefore.
So I ask you not to lose heartover what I'm suffering for you,
which is your glory, for what Iam suffering for you, which is
your glory.
For this reason, I bow my kneesbefore the Father, from whom
every family in heaven and onearth is named, that, according
(17:44):
to the riches of his glory, hemay grant you to be strengthened
with power through his Spiritin your inner being, so that
Christ may dwell in your heartsthrough faith, that you, being
rooted and grounded in love, mayhave strength to comprehend
with all the saints what is thebreadth and length and height
(18:07):
and depth, and to know the loveof Christ that surpasses
knowledge, and that you may befilled with all the fullness of
God.
Lenny (18:16):
Yes, and then in 1 Corinthians 13, he says and that
you may be filled with all thefullness of God.
Yes, and then in 1 Corinthians13, he says and if I have
prophetic powers and understandall mysteries and all knowledge,
and if I have faith so as toremove mountains, but have not
love, I am nothing.
So we see this important theme,that love is so important.
(18:37):
And it's the love of Christ,it's the love of our Lord, and
it's that love working in andthrough us.
Melissa (18:44):
That's right.
Lenny (18:45):
Is where we're going to be the most vibrant, bear the
most fruit.
So whatever we do, we shouldmake sure we're doing it in love
.
Melissa (18:53):
Yeah, we found that to be so important in our own
growth, in our own life.
Yes, the importance of love.
And if you're not feelingloving towards people that are
brothers and sisters in Christ,people that you want to help,
you should pray for the love.
Lenny (19:07):
Yes, so in that passage I remember we were talking about.
Melissa (19:10):
Another interesting conversation we had was how that
passage seems to be talking tonon-Christians at times passage
seems to be talking tonon-Christians at times Verse 16
, that according to the richesof his glory, he may grant you
to be strengthened with powerthrough his spirit in your inner
being, so that Christ may dwellin your hearts through faith.
Lenny (19:30):
I know one thing that I always thought was fascinating
on the note of spiritual giftsis that faith was a spiritual
gift, Right, A spiritual gift offaith.
And then there is saving faith.
Faith is the vehicle that leadsus to salvation.
God opens our eyes throughfaith, Gives us faith, opens our
eyes.
But then there's this spiritualgift of faith and we're told
(19:53):
that it was given in differentmeasures.
Same faith, essentially, but ina different way.
If it was a spiritual gift offaith, it wasn't a faith that
God was building on through ourhuman abilities.
It wasn't a faith that God wasteaching you through Scripture.
It wasn't a faith that God wasteaching you through experience.
They needed to be equipped forthis radical experience that was
(20:17):
going on around them.
In that first century ofChristianity, when the church is
building, Satan and all hisdemonic realms running rampant I
mean, it was just total chaosgoing on and so God was giving
people faith as a gift like here.
You're going to need this toget through these times.
Melissa (20:33):
Right, like we said, he was jumpstarting the church and
he had that limited time windowwhen he wanted things
established.
Lenny (20:41):
And I still think we can pray for faith.
I still think we can pray forthose things, but what you see
happening is usually it's goingto be a taught faith.
I don't think there's a wholelot of miracles going on.
God could perform a miracle ifhe wants to still, and we've
definitely experienced things inour lives where, like, wow,
that God really opened my eyesthere, right.
But it's this life experiencethat he's using to teach us
(21:04):
these things, to gradually wakeus up to grace, to grow us in
grace.
However you want to say it,we're developing and growing
like a plant grows.
Melissa (21:13):
Yes.
Lenny (21:13):
And in those times he kind of just gave them a lot of
fertilizer.
I guess you could say yeah,that makes sense.
Melissa (21:21):
But now the church is established and as believers in
complete finished work of JesusChrist, we don't see the earth
going anywhere.
So, there's no time crunchgoing on, so we believe God
teaches us more graduallythrough uh, the abilities he's
given us yeah, the exodus isover, we're here.
Lenny (21:41):
Yeah, we are in the promised land.
We don't need the manna and thecoil.
We don't, you know, we don'tneed all those signs and wonders
as switchfoot says, salvationis here yeah.
So love is a very important andessential part of the Christian
faith.
Keeps us in check, helps us torealize if we're on the right
track or the wrong track.
(22:02):
Sometimes it's like, oh, I'mnot feeling the love.
What's going on?
Melissa (22:06):
Right.
Lenny (22:07):
But power.
Getting back to power, you knowGod was displaying his power.
We read the definition of power.
I just want to read a few quickverses just to give an example
of God displaying his power inscripture.
So if you want to read these,these are all from Luke,
actually in the NASB translation.
If you'd like to read some ofthese, melissa, Great idea.
Melissa (22:29):
Luke, chapter 1, verse 35.
The angel answered and said toher the Holy Spirit will come
upon you.
Lenny (22:46):
God displaying his power through the immaculate
conception, the virgin birth,christ being born through a
woman.
Yes, that's power.
Melissa (22:56):
That is power, luke 4, 36.
An amazement came upon them alland they began talking with one
another, saying what is thismessage?
For?
With authority and power, hecommands the unclean spirits and
they come out.
Lenny (23:12):
So God is casting out demons, displaying his power.
Melissa (23:16):
Yes, luke 6, 19.
And all the people were tryingto touch him, for power was
coming from him and healing themall.
Lenny (23:26):
Christ had power coming from him that was healing people
.
Melissa (23:31):
Just by being touched.
Lenny (23:33):
Yeah, In the next passage we see it again.
Melissa (23:36):
Luke 8, 46.
But Jesus said Someone didtouch me.
46, christ was aware that powerhad gone out from him.
Lenny (23:46):
A woman had touched him.
She had a debilitating illnesswhere she was bleeding
constantly.
She touched him and was healed.
Melissa (23:54):
Yeah, luke 9, 1.
And he called the twelvetogether and gave them power and
authority over all the demonsand to heal diseases.
Lenny (24:04):
So that's when he sent out the twelve.
That was before Pentecost.
He sent out the twelve, then hesent out the seventy.
Right they were given power.
That was before they indwelledin the Holy Spirit.
Melissa (24:15):
It was.
Lenny (24:16):
But it was still spiritual power.
Melissa (24:18):
Right.
Luke 24, 49.
And behold, I am sending forththe promise of my Father upon
you, but you are to stay in thecity until you are clothed with
power from on high.
Lenny (24:31):
So they were going to be clothed with Christ, they were
going to receive the Holy Spirit.
Yeah, christ was the power.
They were going to be clothedwith Christ.
Melissa (24:35):
They were going to receive the Holy Spirit.
Lenny (24:36):
Yeah, christ was the power.
They were going to be clothedwith him.
Paul speaks about clotheyourselves with Christ.
Yes, so yeah, they were goingto be given the Spirit at
Pentecost.
So now we'll be getting intothe rest of the passage.
Romans 1, 6, and 7, and this isthe ESV translation reads
including you who are called tobelong to Jesus Christ, to all
(25:00):
those in Rome who are loved byGod and called to be saints.
Grace to you and peace from God, our Father and the Lord Jesus
Christ".
So to all those in Rome who areloved by God and called to be
saints.
That's who he's writing to.
So when we think about called,we hear that God calls all
people to himself through thecross of Christ.
(25:21):
It's a calling that all peoplereceive.
Right, we hear that the crossof Christ Jesus loves you.
You could say that to everybodyand it's true.
It's a common thing that youhear right.
Melissa (25:31):
In universalist circles .
Lenny (25:34):
It's funny you should say that actually because it's a
universalist term, but it's usedin Arminian and free will
theology as well.
The two are actually closertogether than a lot of people
realize and we're going to diginto that in this passage a
little bit.
We're going to fast forward alittle bit into Romans, chapter
8, to try to figure out whatthis calling is.
Melissa (25:56):
All right.
Lenny (25:58):
I think it's important to understand what called is.
So we read Romans 8, verse 27.
Melissa (26:05):
If you'd like to read that, melissa, this will be in
the ESV as well, and he whosearches hearts knows what is
the mind of the Spirit, becausethe Spirit intercedes for the
saints according to the will ofGod, and we know that for those
who love God, all things worktogether for good, for those who
are called according to hispurpose, for those he foreknew
(26:29):
he also predestined to beconformed to the image of his
Son in order that he might bethe firstborn among many
brothers.
And those whom he predestinedhe also called, and those whom
he called he also justified, andthose whom he justified he also
glorified.
Lenny (26:49):
This passage is said to be displaying an unbreakable
chain.
Melissa (26:55):
I can see that.
Lenny (26:56):
People have theorized that this is the order of
salvation In order.
So you can see what happens, inwhat order is the theory?
And I can see that and it makessense Because you see this
unbreakable chain, you haveforeknowledge that leads to
predestination, and thepredestination leads to a
(27:16):
calling, and then the callingleads to justification, and then
the calling leads tojustification, and then the
justification leads toglorification.
We start with foreknowledge.
What is foreknowledge?
I know you had definedforeknowledge, melissa, if you'd
like to share what you learnedfrom Webster.
Melissa (27:32):
Yes, I did define all these words.
Yes, I did define all thesewords for new, to have previous
knowledge of anticipate, divinefor see, and I wanted to mention
that in scripture often to knowis to love intimately.
Lenny (27:52):
I would agree with your definition.
Yeah, in regards to scripture,where Webster's is more of a
basic definition, more of aworldly definition.
That's not what I see inscripture and these passages
will help us to understand that.
For knowledge is for loved, forno is a very intimate thing.
(28:14):
If you study the usage of thatterm in scripture, it's very
intimate.
It's not just that he knewsomething about them, it's not
that, oh, I know that they'llact this way, I know that they
will do this certain thing inthe future, so I love them.
It has nothing to do with that.
It's a very intimate love.
Melissa (28:32):
Like in Genesis, where it says Adam knew his wife and
then she bore him a son.
Lenny (28:38):
Yes.
So they were intimate wife, andthen she bore him a son.
Yes, so they were intimate.
Melissa (28:44):
Yes, exactly, they were referring to intimacy.
You see that type of usagequite a bit in scripture.
Lenny (28:47):
Yeah, that's a great example.
Romans 11.2,.
God has not rejected his people, whom he foreknew.
Do you not know what thescripture says of Elijah, how he
appeals to God against Israel?
So he's referring to Israel.
He foreloved yeah, he forelovedIsrael.
And then in 1 Corinthians 8, 3in the ESV.
(29:08):
But if anyone loves God, he isknown by God, so he's connecting
it with love again Right Thenin 2 Timothy, who saved us and
called us to a holy calling, notbecause of our works, but
because of his own purpose andgrace, which he gave us in
Christ Jesus before the agesbegan.
1 Peter 1.2.
(29:28):
According to the foreknowledgeof God, the Father, in the
sanctification of the Spirit,for obedience to Jesus Christ
and for sprinkling with hisblood, may grace and peace be
multiplied to you.
Then 1 Peter 1, verse 20,.
He was foreknown before thefoundation of the world, but was
made manifest in the last timesfor your sake.
So that's about Christ.
(29:49):
Christ was foreknown before thefoundation of the world.
Melissa (29:53):
He was foreknown, he was foreloved.
Lenny (29:56):
So there's something much deeper than just known about.
He wasn't just known about.
Christ existed before thefoundation of the world.
Melissa (30:07):
And the Father loved him.
The Father had a plan.
Lenny (30:10):
There was an intimate relationship between Christ and
the Father before the foundationof the world.
Melissa (30:17):
One of the definitions from Webster that I had read,
for new is divine.
Lenny (30:22):
Yeah.
Foresee so there's somethingmuch deeper than God just
predicted the future.
Melissa (30:27):
Right.
Lenny (30:28):
He didn't just predict the future.
We can dive much deeper intothat once we get further into
Romans, but I just wanted totouch on it.
It's a love that God had wellin advance.
And then that leads us intopredestined, those whom he
foreknew he also predestined.
So if you were foreknown by Godin this way, you were also
predestined to be conformed tothe image of his son.
(30:49):
You were predestined.
So when we get into predestinedthose whom he foreknew, he also
predestined what's thedefinition that you came up with
for predestined, melissa?
Melissa (31:01):
In Webster's it's to settle beforehand, in advance,
to designate, assign or dedicatein advance, to direct or set
apart for a specific purpose.
To direct or set apart for aspecific purpose or place
prophecy, suffer, endure, feel,sustain, experience, taste and
(31:28):
see.
To recognize the nature of tobe aware of the truth,
possessing confidential info.
Lenny (31:37):
It was already known.
He foreknew, he foreloved andhe predestined, he planned,
based on his foreknowledge andhis love for you.
He planned for you to be partof the kingdom.
He planned for you to be withChrist, and so in the verses to
support it, we have Romans 9 23,.
In order to make known theriches of his glory for vessels
(31:59):
of mercy which he has preparedbeforehand for glory, 1
Corinthians 2.7.
But we impart a secret andhidden wisdom of God, which God
decreed before the ages for ourglory Ephesians 1.5.
Esv he predestined us foradoption through Jesus Christ,
according to the purpose of hiswill, ephesians 1.11.
(32:21):
In him we have obtained aninheritance, having been
predestined according to thepurpose of him, who works all
things according to the counselof his will.
So we were preordained and then, from preordained, predestined,
those whom he predestined healso called.
He did.
(32:41):
The logic would follow herethat if you weren't foreknown or
predestined to be conformed tothe image of his son, you
wouldn't have been called.
That's the logic here, if youfollow those in order.
True, so a calling is somethingthat happens next.
Do you have the definition forcalled, melissa?
What does Webster say aboutcalled?
Melissa (33:03):
To utter in a loud, clear voice.
To announce with authority.
To invite or command to meet,to summon, To make a request or
demand.
To demand surrender of forredemption as of a bond.
To speak of or address by name.
To give a name, to regard as orcharacterize as of a certain
(33:27):
kind, describe as shoutinvitation, summons, a request
or a command to come or assemble, a calling on another for
something due or supposed to bedue.
Claim request decision.
Lenny (33:47):
Wow, that's a powerful definition.
Thank you for that.
Melissa (33:51):
Yeah.
Lenny (33:52):
So what does scripture say about it?
In Romans 9.24 we read Even us,whom he has called, not from
the Jews only, but also from theGentiles.
So he called from the Jews andthe Gentiles Called from them,
not just from the Jews, butcalled from the Jews and the
Gentiles.
And then in 1 Corinthians 1.9,god is faithful, by whom you
(34:15):
were called into the fellowshipof his Son, jesus Christ, our
Lord.
Galatians 1.15, that's Paultalking about his apostleship.
Galatians 5.8 Talking toChristians.
2 Thessalonians 2.14.
(34:37):
Hebrews 9.15.
Finally, in 1 Peter 2.9.
(34:58):
Finally, in 1 Peter 2.9, he'stalking about the believers here
.
This calling is a powerfulthing.
It's not just an openinvitation.
(35:20):
I'm not seeing wide openinvitation in any of that.
Are you?
I'm not but, as Martin Luthersaid, I wouldn't want a free
will, even if I could have one.
He understood the pitfalls ofthat doctrine.
He understood the problems inthe doctrine and the error.
He didn't want to be in error.
I'm not saying he was perfectin any way, shape or form, but
that statement was very good.
Melissa (35:43):
He knew predestination.
Lenny (35:44):
Yes.
Anyways, here's the kicker.
Here's the problem that I havewith that doctrine.
Among many points, this is oneextremely strong point.
What we read in our verse 827is that those whom he called, he
also justified.
So this is where you get thatconnotation of universalism.
(36:07):
That's why you said well, yeah,the universalists would
proclaim that.
And you're right If you saythat this word called is an open
invitation.
What you're actuallyproclaiming is universalism.
Melissa (36:22):
Because then everybody would be justified.
Lenny (36:24):
Because those who are called are also justified.
So that means Christ is callingall to justification and all
are receiving it.
All have been justified by thecross.
That's not true.
That's simply not true.
You have to believe in order tobe justified.
(36:44):
You have to have faith inchrist in order to be justified.
Universalism is not truedoctrine, and so we shouldn't go
down that path just to try toprove free will.
There's an error there.
There's a big problem with thatdoctrine.
That's right.
So, having that said, those whoare called, those who believe
(37:07):
they're justified what isjustified, Melissa?
Melissa (37:10):
What would have got for justified is to prove or show
to be just, right or reasonableto pronounce free from guilt or
blame, defend, maintain, support, uphold, condone and excuse
(37:31):
very good, and so in this one Ilooked up the greek word.
Lenny (37:35):
Instead of just cross-referencing passages.
I looked looked up the Greekword that they use for justified
in that passage, and then Ilooked at other passages that
use that word and I found thatnot in all cases was it
interpreted as justified.
It's kind of interesting andI'll get to that.
So Romans 3, verse 4, we readMay it never be.
(37:58):
Rather, let God be found true,though every man be found a liar
, as it is written that you maybe justified in your words and
prevail when you are judged, andhe's talking about God there.
God will be justified in hiswords, god will prevail when
he's judged.
This is about God.
He is true, and every man is aliar.
And then Romans 3, verse 20,.
(38:19):
Because by the works of the lawno flesh will be justified in
his sight, for through the lawcomes the knowledge of sin.
So nobody is justified by thelaw, Romans 3.24,.
Being justified as a gift byhis grace, through the
redemption which is in ChristJesus Romans 3.26,.
For the demonstration, I say,of his righteousness at the
(38:42):
present time, which is in ChristJesus, romans 3.26.
Romans 3.28.
Romans 4.2.
Romans 4.2,.
If Abraham was justified byworks, he has something to boast
about, but not before GodRomans 4.5,.
(39:04):
But to the one who does notwork but believes in him, who
justifies the ungodly, his faithis credited as righteousness
Romans 5.1,.
Therefore, having beenjustified by faith, we have
peace with God through our LordJesus Christ, romans 5.9.
Much more than having now beenjustified by his blood, we shall
(39:25):
be saved from the wrath of Godthrough him.
We were just talking about that.
People were saying that we'restill under the wrath of God as
Christians.
He says right here we're savedfrom the wrath of God through
Christ.
Anyway, romans 6.7.
For he who has died is freedfrom sin.
Now, that's the interesting one.
I was telling you.
Freed is the word that istranslated from the same word
(39:49):
that is justified and justifiesand all these other places.
They considered it freed fromsin.
Kind of interesting.
The interpreter kind of madethe connection.
Justification was kind of likebeing freed from sin.
Pretty good translation, Iguess.
So once we're foreknown, oncewe're foreloved, we're
predestined.
(40:09):
Once we're predestined, we'recalled.
And then once we're called,we're justified.
So if you've been called,you're also justified, and then
those who are justified are alsoglorified.
What's glorified mean inWebster's Melissa?
Melissa (40:26):
Glorified is to raise to heavenly glory, to light up
brilliantly, to represent asglorious, to give glory to, as
in worship, to cause, to be orseem to be better than the
actual condition.
To make glorious by bestowinghonor, praise or admiration.
(40:48):
To bless, magnify, praise,adore, defy, revere, worship,
dignify, exalt.
Lenny (40:59):
And so then our NASB translation in John.
These are all from Gospel ofJohn actually John 7, 39.
John 11.4, john 12.16, john15.8, john 17.1, john 17.4.
(42:04):
It's Christ talking, christtalking again in John 17, 5.
He's going back to his place ofglory, going from man on earth,
man and God, back to glory withthe Father.
(42:25):
He wanted to be back with hisFather again.
Melissa (42:27):
That's right.
Lenny (42:29):
Why is it so important for us to understand God's
sovereignty?
Why does it matter so much thatwe understand that God is
sovereign, that God is incontrol, that God is the one who
foreknows and predestines andcalls and justifies and
glorifies.
Why does it matter?
Well, right after he wroteabout that, paul continued on
(42:50):
and he said what then, shall wesay to these things?
He asked the same question whatshall we say about this?
If God is for us, who can beagainst us?
He who did not spare his ownson but gave him up for us all?
How will he not also, with him,graciously give us all things?
Who shall bring any chargeagainst God's elect?
It is God who justifies.
(43:12):
Who is to condemn Christ?
Jesus is the one who died, morethan that, who was raised, who
is at the right hand of God, who, indeed, is interceding for us?
Who shall separate us from thelove of Christ?
Shall tribulation or distress,or persecution, or famine, or
nakedness, or danger, or sword,as it is written For your sake?
(43:35):
We are being killed all the daylong.
We are regarded as sheep to beslaughtered.
No, in all these things, we aremore than conquerors, through
him who loved us, for I am surethat neither death nor life, nor
angels, nor rulers, nor thingspresent, nor things to come, nor
powers, nor height, nor depth,nor anything else in all
(43:55):
creation will be able toseparate us from the love of God
and Christ Jesus, our Lord.
That's why Paul says it matters, and I agree with him.
Me too, and we don't have toliterally like blow up our minds
trying to figure it all out,but we just have to believe it.
At the end of the day, I guessit's safe to say that Jesus is
(44:17):
Lord and he chose you.
Melissa (44:19):
That's right.
Lenny (44:20):
Your identity is child of God.
So for today, signing out, andI look forward to seeing you
guys next week for some more.
Melissa (44:29):
Have a great day out there.
Announcement (44:31):
Take care of you guys.
Thank you for listening to theWaking Up To Grace podcast,
brought to you by the finishedwork of our Lord Jesus Christ.
If you enjoyed today's episode,we would love to hear from you.
You can send encouragement ourway right from our episodes and
transcripts page or reach Lennyprivately from the contact form
(44:52):
at wakinguptogracecom.
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