March 30, 2025 • 55 mins
Lenny and Melissa explore Paul's prayer life across his letters, revealing his consistent focus on thanksgiving, spiritual growth, and Christ's love rather than sin-consciousness.
• Paul consistently displayed thanksgiving and never-ceasing prayer
• Paul's prayers focused on believers growing in knowledge of Christ's love, not on their sin
• The resurrection life was the hope early Christians awaited before Christ's second coming
• Paul encouraged believers to focus on "whatever is pure, lovely, and commendable"
• Modern prayer often emphasizes sin-consciousness while Paul emphasized grace-consciousness
• The Corinthians, despite their issues, were told they were "not lacking in any spiritual gift"
• Posture in prayer can bring unexpected peace during times of anxiety and distress
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Episode Transcript
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announcement (00:01):
Hello and welcome to the Waking Up to Grace
podcast, where we celebrate andexplore the finished work of our
Lord Jesus Christ.
Tune in to the Waking Up toGrace podcast on every major
platform.
You can also listen to ourepisodes and read our full
transcripts atwakinguptogracecom.
And now here's Lenny.
Lenny (00:22):
Welcome back to the podcast, everyone, good morning.
Today we're going to becontinuing our study on.
Welcome back to the podcast,everyone, good morning.
Today we're going to becontinuing our study on Paul's
letter to the Romans and ourfocus is going to be on Romans,
chapter 1, verses 8 through 15.
I wanted to mention that thelast episode and this episode
were doing things a little bitdifferently.
We actually put together astudy guide to go through and
(00:46):
Melissa and I are going to begoing through it and giving our
answers based on what we see inthe passages as we go.
This study guide can be foundat wakinguptogracecom on the
episodes page that I link to inthe podcast description.
Another thought I had is, if youwanted to go about this in a
study fashion, you could pauseit whenever we ask a question
(01:08):
and think about the answer toyourself before you hear us
talking about it and see if thathelps at all.
Love it.
So, going into these verses 8through 15.
In the first chapter of Romans,verse 9 really stood out to me.
You want to read that, melissa.
Melissa (01:25):
For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in
the gospel of his Son, thatwithout ceasing, I mention you
always in my prayers.
Lenny (01:36):
So the topic just like last week, we're going to be
continuing is prayer.
Did you know that we have awindow into Paul's prayer that
we can look through in ourscripture?
In our Romans passage, we seePaul saying that he prays for
them without ceasing and isalways mentioning them in his
prayers.
So wouldn't it be insightful tohear what his prayers might
(01:57):
have sounded like?
My answer is a great big yes.
So how would you like to joinme on a study on Paul's prayers?
Melissa (02:05):
I'm in.
Lenny (02:05):
Well, let's dig in then, shall we?
Our first passage that we'regoing to look at comes from
Ephesians, chapter 1, verses 15through 23.
Melissa (02:15):
For this reason, because I have heard of your
faith in the Lord Jesus and yourlove toward all the saints, I
do not cease to give thanks foryou, remembering you in my
prayers.
Lenny (02:33):
That's the same verse that he used in Romans.
Are you noticing a theme from aRomans passage that carries
into this passage about prayer?
He doesn't cease.
I see that, but then I also seethis thing of giving thanks.
So he's starting out.
Whenever he's mentioning prayer, it seems that almost always
(02:54):
he's talking about giving thanks.
Melissa (02:57):
Good observation.
Lenny (02:58):
He seems very thankful and that seems to be the mindset
he wants to pass on to people,wouldn't you say?
Melissa (03:05):
Yes, giving thanks and not ceasing to do so.
Lenny (03:08):
So that's like the first thing that he thinks about when
Paul says prayer.
He thinks thankfulness.
So do you think Paul'sconsistent attitude of
thankfulness displays aGod-honoring mindset that we
should also strive?
Melissa (03:22):
to have in our lives, absolutely.
Lenny (03:24):
And why?
Why do you think that?
Melissa (03:26):
Well, I can say I think that because of recent
happenings in our life andtrying that on for size myself
and seeing how great it feels tostart prayer with thankfulness,
yeah, I would agree.
Lenny (03:42):
And just all the things that go on around us in the body
of Christ that you see in yourlife.
We see, and you guys out thereare seeing things, I'm sure, as
Christians in your life how Godis at work through the body and
then even directly to us, andjust giving thanks for that and
having a thankful attitude seemsto be what Paul's trying to
(04:04):
help us, along with a little bitto see things in that light.
Melissa (04:08):
Because there's always something to be thankful for,
isn't there?
Lenny (04:11):
I agree.
So why do you think Paul mightnever cease in his prayers and
why does he always mention this?
When we study the multitude ofpassages regarding prayer in
Paul's letters, we see forourselves that the theme of
giving thanks to God and neverceasing to pray for the saints
is echoed throughout all of hisprayers.
(04:32):
Paul is constantly thankful andregularly praying for his
brothers and sisters.
Why do you think that Paulwould never cease and why do you
think he would mention this tothem?
Why would he be alwaysmentioning to them I never stop
praying for you guys.
What do you think that we canlearn from that?
Melissa (04:51):
That it's very important for the body to remain
focused on Christ and buildeach other up in Christ every
moment of every day in this life.
Lenny (05:03):
We need each other every moment of every day in this life
.
We need each other, yeah, andthat thought process is guiding
us to live holy lives.
I would say, why is hementioning that he always prays
and that he never ceases to prayfor them?
Because it's keeping him ingrace living, it's keeping him
in that mindset of thankfulness.
Melissa (05:23):
So then you're not letting the world get a foothold
on you?
Lenny (05:26):
Exactly.
He's displaying that his mindis in tune to the Spirit.
Melissa (05:32):
Yes.
Lenny (05:32):
And that's not really something that stops for Paul.
As we continue in our Ephesianspassage, we get to observe the
content of Paul's prayer.
We get to see the things thathe desired for the Ephesians
through his prayer.
Melissa (05:47):
That the God of our Lord, Jesus Christ, the Father
of glory, may give you a spiritof wisdom and of revelation in
the knowledge of him, having theeyes of your hearts enlightened
, that you may know what is thehope to which he has called you,
what are the riches of hisglorious.
So our first question is wouldyou say.
Lenny (06:17):
Paul is looking beyond the simple understanding of
Christ Yeshua that brought thesaints in Ephesus to salvation.
Melissa (06:25):
That's a great big yes.
Lenny (06:28):
Yeah, I would agree.
He's not just talking about theknowledge that they had when
they came to Christ.
He's talking about somethingthat builds and something that
grows, isn't he?
Melissa (06:38):
He is.
He's encouraging them to desireto know all there is to know
about Yahweh, encouraging themto desire to know all there is
to know about Yahweh.
Lenny (06:45):
So what do you think the hope was that the saints at that
time were called to?
What were they hoping for thatwas going to happen?
It would have had to have beensomething they didn't already
have.
It was something that waspromised that hadn't come.
The coming of Christ, thereturn of Christ, the return of
(07:05):
Christ Right when he came, hewas going to bring salvation to
all the saints.
That was going to be when theygot resurrected from the dead
and brought to life.
See, they were promised life.
They had the Spirit, thelife-giving Spirit of Christ
living in them, but theresurrection was not going to
take place until the secondcoming.
(07:27):
There was no life for the deaduntil the second coming.
So they were hoping for that tohappen.
Melissa (07:34):
There was still Sheol at that time where they would go
, and the saints of old had gone.
Lenny (07:39):
Yep, and they were aware of that.
They knew that they were goingto face a physical death and
then have to wait, and they werewaiting in hopes that that
second coming would come,because christ defeated death,
but he hadn't opened the doorsto heaven and life to the saints
yet and that's a reallypowerful point.
(08:01):
We no longer die, exactly,saints no longer die yeah, it's
a very important we now go rightto heaven people don't think
about that without the secondcoming, you don't go right to
heaven there would have been adeath for us, which was defeated
, but there's still that waitingso the next question, shifting
(08:23):
the focus a little bit where doyou think they would find the
riches and immeasurablegreatness that would enlighten
their hearts?
Melissa (08:31):
By focusing and depending on Yeshua.
Lenny (08:36):
They're going to find that in Christ right.
They're going to find that inthe depth of the gospel Not just
the gospel that they heardimmediately there was a
revelation there, their eyeswere open but Paul's describing
a further depth after salvation,after regeneration, that
continues to grow and we'regoing to see that theme
(08:57):
throughout his prayers and as weread on.
Melissa (09:01):
According to the working of his great might, that
he worked in Christ when heraised him from the dead and
seated him at his right hand inthe heavenly places, far above
all rule and authority and powerand dominion and above every
name that is named, not only inthis age but also in the one to
(09:22):
come.
And he put all things under hisfeet and gave him as head over
all things to the church, whichis his body, the fullness of him
who fills all in all.
Lenny (09:37):
So do you think that Paul in this passage is describing
here the things that they hopedfor, the things that were coming
?
Yes, because he says not onlyin this age, but also in the one
to come.
The things that they have noware going to carry into the next
age as well, but it's going tobe more complete in the next age
(10:00):
.
See, the new covenant had begun, but there was a transition
going on.
They were still living in theold covenant age when the new
covenant began.
They overlapped, and so whenthe new age came, there was
great benefits to that.
Melissa (10:15):
Absolutely.
Lenny (10:16):
So yeah, he's describing what they hoped for.
They already had the promise,the seal of what they hoped for,
the spirit of Christ living inthem.
So that leads us to the nextquestion.
Can you see Paul proclaimingsome of the riches and
immeasurable greatness thatwould enlighten their hearts
here?
Yes, we read about that in thelast passage.
(10:37):
He's talking about the workingof his great might, that he
worked in Christ when he raisedhim from the dead and seated him
at his right hand in heavenlyplaces, far above all rule and
authority and power and dominion, above every name that is named
, all things under his feet.
He's explaining parts of thesedepths to them.
Melissa (11:02):
Who their God is.
Lenny (11:02):
What the immeasurable greatness is the resurrection of
the dead Christ, defeatingdeath, the coming resurrection
and the already defeated deaththat Christ defeated.
He was going to be defeating itfor the saints soon, according
to scripture.
Would you say that resurrection, life is a major component in
(11:23):
our faith as Christians?
Would you say that?
Melissa (11:25):
resurrection life is a major component in our faith as
Christians.
Absolutely, it's likeeverything.
Lenny (11:27):
Yeah, that is the faith.
That's why it's not religion,because we have life.
Christ gives us life.
That's the essence ofChristianity.
Yes, it is that life that is inus now.
We have that now.
They hope for it and we havethe complete version of it now.
Melissa (11:48):
Yahweh is the only God to deliver in such a way.
Lenny (11:53):
Absolutely so.
What did resurrection life haveto do with the church in
Ephesus If Christ had not raisedthe dead yet?
Melissa (12:01):
It was important to understand their hope and what
was to come.
Lenny (12:04):
Yeah, we kind of touched on that.
They had the seal of the spirit, the promise of that life.
The spirit gave them thepromise of that.
It reconciled them to God.
It's a big deal that they hadreconciliation to God.
They were right with God, readyfor the resurrection now, but
the resurrection life had notbeen given yet so, as they were
(12:26):
inching closer to 70 ad, thedestruction of jerusalem and
christ's second coming.
Melissa (12:31):
It was going to get very, very dark, very, very
difficult, and paul wasencouraging them to remember
what they had, the hope they had, what was to come and a great
light would be shining in thatdarkness, as dark as that time
was.
Lenny (12:47):
during that destruction of the temple in Jerusalem, the
light of life was going to beilluminated for the saints at
that time through the fieryinferno.
God works through darkness.
He shows us light throughdarkness, doesn't he?
Melissa (13:03):
He does, and that's the only way to really get through
it.
Focusing on the light.
Lenny (13:09):
Our next passages come from the third chapter of Paul's
letter to the Ephesians, verses14 through 21.
Melissa (13:16):
For this reason, I bow my knees before the Father.
Lenny (13:20):
So stopping there.
The question is do you thinkPaul meant this literally?
Is Paul teaching us a posturefor humble prayer, a posture
that maybe he actually used?
I would say yes.
I would say yes as well.
Paul's showing us that he washumbly praying, literally bowing
his knees before the Father.
(13:41):
This wasn't just his thoughtlife.
I think it's important undergrace to realize that our
thought prayers count.
But Paul's displayingintentional prayers.
He did both.
He was living in thought prayerand he was also living by
intentional prayer.
I think that's important torealize.
That means there's a benefit toit.
(14:02):
It doesn't mean it's a rule.
You're going to start making alist of all the things you have
to do every day, but if wediscipline ourselves and make
our own rules for ourselvesbased on our freedom, I don't
see any problem with that, aslong as you know that that's not
the rule to fellowship, therule to salvation.
But these are things thatbenefit us.
These are things that are goingto be proven because Paul did
(14:24):
it.
Melissa (14:25):
Right, and as you're saying that I kind of think
about love in a marriage, I cantell you that I love you with
words.
I can display it by spendingtime with you.
Sometimes I just need to wrapmy arms around you.
There's different ways.
Lenny (14:40):
Yeah, so we have all these ways to connect with God.
Melissa (14:46):
And in recent times you and I've been talking about
posture, and I've found that intimes of desperation, sometimes
all you can do is fall to yourknees, and the peace that comes
is really surprising those arespecial moments.
Lenny (15:00):
It really surprised me, yeah, and you just think, well,
maybe I want more of that.
Melissa (15:04):
Mm-hmm.
Lenny (15:05):
And we can do that.
Melissa (15:07):
From whom every family in heaven and on earth is named,
that according to the riches ofhis glory he may grant you to
be strengthened with powerthrough his spirit in your inner
being, so that Christ may dwellin your hearts through faith.
Lenny (15:24):
Do you see Paul displaying the sovereign power
of Yahweh as creator here?
Melissa (15:29):
I do.
Lenny (15:30):
He absolutely does.
He's saying from whom everyfamily in heaven and on earth is
named.
That's Yahweh.
He named everything, he createdeverything.
The thankfulness that we talkabout, being thankful, paul's
theme of being thankful, alsoglorifying God when we pray is
very meaningful and a very funway to connect with the Lord.
(15:53):
So Paul's saying to himself andto the church the one who named
everything, the one who createdeverything and you see that
said so much about Yahweh inScripture he is the creator of
all things.
Through him, all things werecreated.
Without him, nothing thatexists would exist right.
Melissa (16:13):
So they're praising them, they're glorifying them
and we talked about howimportant names were in that
time.
At that time it was a big thingto say son of such and such.
Your name was your identity,and so christ is our identity.
That's a really big deal and henamed us.
Lenny (16:33):
He named us.
He named us saints.
He named us a new creation.
He named us his brothers andsisters.
Right when we glorify him, weactually understand our identity
.
So don't we already have Christdwelling in us?
By faith, though?
What does Paul mean by this?
Melissa (16:53):
He dwells in us.
But if we don't reallyunderstand who it is that's
dwelling in us, then there's abig gap there, there's a big
lacking exactly that's exactlywhat he's saying.
Lenny (17:07):
he's saying that he wants them to be strengthened with
the power through his spirit intheir inner being so that christ
may dwell in their heartsthrough faith.
So Christ is already dwellingin us and to me I see just an
example of the things that wetalk about often in our podcasts
that there's the belief thatsaved you and then the belief
(17:27):
that we continue in.
That builds us up in grace, thegrace living belief, the
constant belief and the buildingon that belief.
Melissa (17:39):
Constantly waking up to more and more.
Lenny (17:40):
Yeah, so christ is in the core of our being, but is he on
the forefront of our mind?
Heart and mind can beinterchangeable in a sense, but
the heart is like the core ofthe mind, it's like what's
producing those thoughts.
It goes a little deeper, but ifwe hold to that and live by
that faith, that's in our hearts, it's on the forefront of our
(18:01):
mind.
That would be more like beingfilled with it right From the
inner being to the outer being.
Melissa (18:07):
Yes, absolutely.
I just had a thought that it'sreminding me of.
If somebody didn't understandour currency, let's say, or
somebody didn't understand thevalue of money, and you gave
them a million dollars, and sothey have it, put it in a box,
and they know it's supposed tobe special, but they don't know
(18:30):
how to use it.
They don't know what it reallymeans and what the value really
is, then it's just going to stayin that box and they're not
really going to think about it.
They're not going to benefitfrom it.
Lenny (18:43):
Yeah.
Melissa (18:43):
So it kind of reminds me of that.
Lenny (18:45):
You gave it to them and you told them this is valuable
and they believed you Right.
But they never really went onto understand just how valuable
it was.
Melissa (18:53):
Right.
Lenny (18:54):
Yeah, that's definitely what we're seeing here.
And then he continues on.
Melissa (18:58):
That you, being rooted and grounded in love, may have
strength to comprehend with allthe saints what is the breadth
and length and height and depth,and to know the love of Christ
that surpasses knowledge, thatyou may be filled with all the
fullness of God.
Lenny (19:18):
That one's kind of a tongue twister.
It makes me want to say breadth, length, height and depth, but
it's just height.
I think I did that in anepisode.
Oh, that's great, but thequestion is, would you agree
that this passage helps explainthe previous one?
I would, yeah, he's kind,explain the previous one I would
.
Yeah, he's kind of explainingwhat he meant by that.
(19:41):
He's not telling them that youdon't understand the gospel.
He's not telling them that youweren't saved by the gospel.
You need to understand this soyou can be saved.
He wasn't telling them thathe's wanting them rooted and
grounded in it.
Melissa (19:53):
Rooted and grounded and having the strength wow to
comprehend.
Lenny (19:59):
It takes strength to comprehend so what do you pray
for?
I'd be praying for thatstrength.
Yes, I want to be filled withthat, right, right.
Melissa (20:10):
So that's something we can pray for and I'm thinking
about how amazing the temple wasin jerusalem at that time and
remember all the passages in theold testament where everything
down to a t, to the tiniestbread, length, height, depth
yeah, was all calculated to themand it had to be exact yeah and
(20:32):
so I'm thinking about that'sgot to be part of why he
mentioned that, because everyoneknew how magnificent that
temple was yeah, you're probablyright time that temple was
built spiritually, but withhuman hands right the temple of
christ, the true temple, thetrue israel, the spiritual
temple that our bodies are withthe christ dwelling in them, is
(20:54):
amazing.
Lenny (20:55):
A lot of people don't realize just how amazing that is
, that that temple you'redescribing, we're the spiritual
version that's not built withhuman hands.
We're part of that and Christis the head.
Melissa (21:07):
Amen, and I was a Christian a very long time
before I gave that any thought.
Lenny (21:12):
It's so amazing.
So the next question how can weknow the love that surpasses
knowledge without knowledge?
I thought that was kind ofinteresting.
You read that passage and hesays and to know the love of
Christ that surpasses knowledge.
So you have to know it in orderto surpass the knowledge.
(21:32):
You have to have knowledge tosurpass knowledge.
Isn't that interesting?
Melissa (21:37):
Yeah.
Lenny (21:39):
So how do we get this?
Melissa (21:41):
Yeah, we can't know it without praying for it, focusing
on it.
Lenny (21:46):
Exactly.
That's true, but the othertruth is that it takes knowledge
to rise above knowledge.
It takes spiritual knowledge inorder to rise above knowledge.
Melissa (21:57):
So is he saying, to spiritually know the love of
Christ that surpasses worldlyknowledge.
Lenny (22:03):
I would say yeah, I think that's a perfect example.
I would say think of all theknowledge that the first century
Jews had, Think of all theknowledge they had of God, and
yet they rejected their ownmessiah they were taught to
memorize they knew scripture,scripture yeah, young age and
(22:24):
I'm all for people saying youshould read your bible, but if
you take that to a certain levelwhere reading your bible and
having biblical knowledge is theonly way to grow, that that's
not true.
Understanding your Bible is moreimportant than reading it,
because the first century Jewswere way smarter than us about
Scripture and yet they weren'tsaved many of them.
(22:45):
They couldn't see the truth.
Melissa (22:48):
We can't lean on our own understanding.
It's not about our knowledge.
It's about the knowledge thatChrist gives us and we can pray
for that.
So Christ is the knowledge thatchrist gives us and we can pray
for that.
Lenny (22:57):
So christ is the knowledge that surpasses
knowledge.
Knowledge of christ surpassesall knowledge.
If you know christ, you are inreality.
The rest of the world has noclue.
We're lost that's a very goodway to say it is being filled
with all the fullness of God,being filled with his love.
(23:20):
Could those things be similarto each other?
Melissa (23:23):
Well, it would have to, because if you have all the
fullness of God, certainly youhave his love.
Lenny (23:28):
Yeah, he's talking about.
The love of Christ is whatsurpasses knowledge.
The love that Christ displayedfor us is what surpasses
knowledge.
And then, right after that,he's saying be filled with all
the fullness of God.
That's the love of God.
It's got to be and so I thinkyou could also say pray to
understand the love of God andhere's even better question for
(23:50):
you do you think we can becompletely full of the love of
God?
Melissa (23:56):
I think we can, because Paul says that you may be
filled with all the fullness ofGod.
Lenny (24:02):
Why would he say that?
I've come to think of that in asense, like I was saying
earlier, where it's like whenour inner mind that comes from
Christ is being connected withthe forefront of our mind.
So, yeah, I believe we can becompletely full of this.
I believe it's when we're ingrace, when we're living in
(24:25):
thankfulness for what God didfor us, and not living in
religion.
Melissa (24:31):
Agreed and, as you're saying that, I'm thinking I
wonder if we ever can becompletely full in this life,
because I do think it's a becompletely full in this life,
because I do think it's alifelong journey, learning the
depths.
It is the breadth, the length,the height, the depth, so maybe
completely full is heaven.
Lenny (24:49):
I think it depends on context, Because we see both
views coming from Paul and we'llsee it more as we read further
on.
There's a fullness that we canhave and then there's a fullness
that we're seeking becausewe're always growing.
So it's used in different waysand in different contexts.
Kind of like Paul uses walkingby the spirit, the spiritual do
(25:11):
walk by the spirit, but then inanother sense, we're not always
walking by the spirit.
Melissa (25:16):
Sometimes we're looking at the flesh so another way to
say it could be on god's, onyahweh's end.
Because of yeshua, we arealways walking by the spirit.
We are completely full we'respiritual beings on a spiritual
level we are, but to understandthat fully, to fully understand
(25:39):
how full we are, how close andwalking with Yeshua we are,
that's a lifelong journey, itseems.
Lenny (25:47):
Our understanding.
It's an infinite depth.
I would say that fullunderstanding of grace.
But understanding it andbuilding on it and just
understanding it fills you witheverything you need.
You have everything you need.
Melissa (26:02):
That's an exciting journey to be on.
Lenny (26:04):
So you're full already as you're filling your tank.
I wish I had a car thatoperated like that.
I know you do.
You hate to stop and forget.
I know you do.
Melissa (26:15):
You hate to stop and forget?
Next question Do you think thatthe common Christian today
realizes the power of theresurrection life of Christ.
No, because I'm a commonChristian that can testify to
that.
Not until more recently in myChristian walk that I understand
there was any more to know.
Lenny (26:38):
Yeah, I think there was a point where we understood grace
and kind of thought like that'sall there is to know, before we
realized how much deeper youcan go and you just don't really
stop, you don't really say well, I'm done studying, I'm done
reading, I'm done seekingdifferent truths.
Why would you do that?
Melissa (26:56):
Never.
Lenny (26:57):
I think that was the silliest thing that we ever did
at one point is to think in sucha way as far as Christianity
today, just understanding thetrue power of the gospel, the
resurrection life that liveswithin them.
I think that's really gottenlost in religion today and we're
going to be talking about that.
We're going to be talking aboutthe negative side of the way
(27:21):
that prayer is taught today,where we see Paul talking about
thankfulness, glorifying God.
And today I see a differentteaching going on repetitively
in the institutional churches,where your sin is the primary
focus, where begging for mercyand forgiveness consumes the
(27:41):
Christian thought life.
Melissa (27:43):
It's tragic.
Lenny (27:45):
You would actually ruin somebody's prayer life if you
told them that you don't needany more forgiveness.
Melissa (27:51):
It's tragic.
It really upsets me to thinkabout I'll just leave it at this
saying that the institutionalchurches teach people to depend
on them the pastors, the eldersand their building rather than
depend on Christ.
Lenny (28:06):
So they're not being filled, being filled with
religion.
Melissa (28:09):
They're being filled with religion.
Paul wanted you to be filledwith the Spirit, not religion.
Lenny (28:15):
So continuing.
Melissa (28:17):
Now to him, who is able to do far more abundantly than
all we ask or think, accordingto the power at work within us.
To him be glory in the churchand in Christ Jesus throughout
all generations, forever andever.
Amen.
Lenny (28:35):
So who is this him that he's referring to here?
Melissa (28:39):
None other than Yahweh.
Lenny (28:42):
Now to him, who is able to do far more abundantly than
all that we ask or think,basically saying anything that
you ask in your prayers or thinkin your thought life.
He can do far more abundantlythan any of those things.
I've seen it Absolutely so.
The next question is what wasthe power at work within them?
Melissa (29:06):
The Holy Spirit.
Lenny (29:08):
The power of the Holy Spirit.
So can we conclude that all ofthem had the Spirit living in
them, but Paul desired that theylive their lives with that in
the forefront of their heartsand minds.
Melissa (29:19):
Yes, and we were talking about that.
We have everything that we need, but if it's not at the
forefront, you don't realize.
Lenny (29:26):
Yep, what we see in front of our faces, the worldly,
tangible, physical things, iswhat our minds automatically
focus on.
We have to actually train ourminds to be thinking spiritually
.
Melissa (29:40):
It's like we were talking about earlier how
devastating that is.
You actually have everythingthat you need and you think
you're lacking.
Lenny (29:48):
So our next passage comes from Paul's letter to the
church in Philippi, chapter 1,verses 3 through 11.
Melissa (29:56):
I thank my God here's thankfulness again in all my
remembrance of you, always, inevery prayer of mine for you all
, making my prayer with joybecause of your partnership in
the gospel from the first dayuntil now.
Lenny (30:13):
So why was Paul so thankful and joyful about the
Philippian saints?
Melissa (30:18):
He valued his brothers and sisters in the faith.
Lenny (30:21):
Specifically, he says because of their partnership in
the gospel from the first dayuntil now.
So he's saying that they werepartners in the gospel from the
day they believed, even untilnow.
Melissa (30:34):
So they are understanding.
That's what he was thankful for.
Lenny (30:37):
Yeah, he was thankful for that, that they were continuing
in what they heard.
From the beginning they werepartnering in the gospel.
Melissa (30:45):
Boy, I can relate with that.
We've talked a lot about howit's really difficult when you
have brothers and sisters in thefaith that don't want to dive
deep with you.
Lenny (30:53):
Yeah.
Melissa (30:54):
Don't seem to care.
Lenny (30:56):
Going to church isn't partnering in the gospel.
It doesn't qualify aspartnering in the gospel unless
the people in the church are allsomehow partnering in the
gospel.
Melissa (31:07):
Going to a conventional church.
Lenny (31:08):
The building doesn't qualify that in any shape, way
or form.
So do you think that thisgospel-centered living should
apply to Christians today, andif so, what does that look like?
Melissa (31:21):
I say absolutely it should, because that's going to
allow us to be filled with allthe fullness of God.
Lenny (31:30):
Exactly.
And what does that look like?
Well, I think Paul's describingit in his prayers here.
We learned so much from hisprayer Thankfulness, glorifying
Yahweh, being thankful to Yahwehfor what he did.
He never says beat yourself upover your sin.
He never says beg God thathe'll see you as a saint.
(31:51):
You nasty sinner.
Melissa (31:53):
You pointed that out to me and it is so eye-opening,
sinner, you pointed that out tome and it is so eye-opening and
it also looks like partnershipin the gospel, rejoicing in
truth, full truth.
Lenny (32:03):
Exactly being of one mind and spirit, as was written in
Acts.
Melissa (32:09):
It kind of reminds me.
If you're not doing that, itmakes me think of you.
Know, it's fun when you're fiveyears old and you're playing
with other five-year-olds.
But then, when you're ten andyou're playing with
five-year-olds, you might stilllove them as a friend, or maybe
it's your brother and sister butyou're starting to desire to
(32:29):
grow and they're not there yet,so that bond is hindered.
Lenny (32:33):
And you're not experiencing any growth by
hanging out with them.
Nobody can grow.
Melissa (32:37):
You've kind of outgrown that age you can't grow.
I should say, yeah, it remindsme of that.
Lenny (32:43):
And continuing on.
Melissa (32:45):
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in
you will bring it to completionat the day of Jesus Christ.
It is right for me to feel thisway about you all, because I
(33:08):
hold you in my heart.
Lenny (33:10):
First question why was Paul so sure that the Lord would
complete his good work andthose he wrote to?
Melissa (33:18):
Because it's promised to all believers.
Lenny (33:21):
Yeah, and he even says it's right for me to feel this
way about you all, because theywere partakers with him of grace
.
Melissa (33:30):
Because Yahweh began a good work in them.
Lenny (33:33):
They were defending the gospel.
They believed in the gospel.
And here's the next question.
Here's the real zinger what wasthe completion of the work that
he was describing, and whenwould it take place?
I think we often think thatwe're working our way up, we're
progressively being sanctifiedor something becoming this
(33:55):
better status.
At the end, we're going toachieve this, some kind of
status.
But what was he really talkingabout here?
What do you think he was reallytalking?
Melissa (34:05):
about here.
Lenny (34:05):
What was going to take place, that God's work would be
complete in them.
Melissa (34:10):
The complete finished work of Yahweh, the complete
finished work of Yeshua.
Lenny (34:16):
What was the final act that he was going to perform?
Melissa (34:19):
When he came on the clouds and he opened the doors
to heaven, exactly the secondcoming.
Lenny (34:24):
The resurrection, the spiritual resurrection of the
dead.
Exactly that's what they werehoping for, and that was the
completed work that they werewaiting for.
Melissa (34:36):
Yes.
Lenny (34:36):
He finished it.
Melissa (34:38):
A fellow brother in Christ described to us their
thought on what it looks likenow when we go to heaven.
It resonated with me.
I never thought about it likethis before.
I guess I didn't truly realizethat we don't die as Christians
because our bodies die.
But a fellow brother in Christdescribed it as it seemed to
(34:58):
them that it's like a veil islifted when you transfer over
into heaven.
Yes, our bodies die but in ourinner being.
A veil is lifted and we are nowin the heavenly realms.
That's what it's like for thespiritual.
That's what that final work ofChrist ushered in if you will.
Lenny (35:21):
So actually, when a Christian dies, they're actually
being resurrected to life.
Melissa (35:28):
Yeah, that's a better way to say it.
Lenny (35:30):
Everything in the spiritual realm tends to be
opposite of what we see.
Yes, where actually, when aChristian dies, they just went
on to life?
Melissa (35:39):
I'm going to start referring to it as that
Christian dies.
No, a Christian didn't die.
A Christian was resurrected tolife.
Lenny (35:48):
Exactly.
Melissa (35:49):
That's really important to understand.
Lenny (35:51):
Yeah, you didn't see it happen, but it happened.
It's the unseen realm.
Melissa (35:56):
Because otherwise it sounds too much like the world,
kind of like getting the namesright Yahweh and Yeshua and
getting the real meaning out ofthat.
That's how I see that.
Lenny (36:07):
Amen.
Melissa (36:27):
Continue in our next passage, and so be pure and
blameless for the day of Christ,filled with the fruit of
righteousness that comes throughJesus Christ, to the glory and
praise of God.
Lenny (36:41):
Okay, question number one what was the day of Christ?
Melissa (36:46):
70 AD.
Lenny (36:48):
The second coming Coming in the clouds, parousia, the
preterist view.
Question number two does paulseem to think that this day
would be coming soon?
Scholars are almost unanimousthat the apostles believed it
was going to happen in theirgeneration.
Why did they believe that?
Because christ told him that.
(37:09):
He literally told him that.
so we know that paul, definitelyin his letters, has this idea
in his mind that it's happeningsoon yes question number three
was their behavior the drivingforce that would make them pure
and blameless for the day ofchrist?
It was not the driving force.
(37:29):
The driving force was what weread about earlier, the renewing
of the mind that Paul mentionsin his writing.
It was the growth in the gospel, it was the knowledge of the
love of Christ that surpassedall knowledge, that develops us
into what God wants us to be.
That's what makes us holy,that's what gives us holy
(37:50):
thoughts.
And we're going to be realizing, as we continue in this study,
that Paul's telling you to focuson holy things.
He's not telling you to focuson your sin life.
He's looking at it kind of likeyou'd say well, why are you
thinking so negative?
You should be thinking positive.
He's telling you to focus onholiness, not sin.
Melissa (38:11):
Be filled with the fruit of righteousness that
comes through Jesus Christ.
The fruit of righteousness, thebelief of righteousness.
Lenny (38:20):
That's question number four.
Melissa (38:23):
What would you?
Lenny (38:23):
say the fruit of righteousness, might refer to in
this passage the truth andbelief about their righteousness
.
Yeah, it was Christ'srighteousness that produces the
fruit that we bear.
It's Christ's righteousness.
The final question on thispassage, then, is does behavior
apply here and, if so, how?
Melissa (38:43):
Behavior does not apply here.
Lenny (38:46):
It doesn't exactly apply here, but I would say that
behavior does apply, in thesense that holy behavior all
stems from holy thinking Focus.
If you're focusing on holythings, if you're hoping for
holy things, holy behavior tendsto follow.
Melissa (39:05):
Your behavior should be depending on Yahweh.
Lenny (39:09):
And how do you know what's holy?
Because you know the love thatChrist gave.
And he said to his disciplesthis is how they'll know you're
my disciples If you love oneanother as I have loved you.
What he's telling them is tofocus on the love that he has
for them, and they didn't evenknow what that was yet.
They were going to find outPhilippians 4, verses 6 through
(39:33):
9.
They were going to find outPhilippians 4, verses 6 through
9.
Melissa (39:34):
Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything.
By prayer and supplication,with thanksgiving, let your
requests be made known to God,and the peace of God, which
surpasses all understanding,will guard your hearts and your
minds in Christ Jesus.
Lenny (39:55):
All right, so supplication here.
Just in case anybody doesn'tknow I had to look it up it's to
plead humbly, so prayer andpleading with thanksgiving.
Question number one we readearlier in Ephesians 3.19, that
the love of Christ surpasses allknowledge.
Do you think this is one in thesame, that the love of Christ
surpasses all knowledge?
(40:16):
Do you think this is one andthe same as the peace of God
that is mentioned here?
I think so, the peace of Godwhich surpasses all
understanding.
I think that sounds about thesame.
We get peace from his love.
Melissa (40:27):
Oh, we sure do.
Lenny (40:28):
I mean you're reconciled to the true living God.
There is no time in historybefore the cross that that ever
happened.
Before the resurrection, theSpirit was given, there was no
reconciliation.
Reconciliation happened at thecross.
It sure did.
That gives you peace, doesn'tit?
Melissa (40:45):
It really does.
Lenny (40:47):
So would that peace relieve anxiety?
Melissa (40:51):
It definitely would, and I just want to quickly
mention that during somedifficult times that have been
going on in our life.
I mentioned that I've hit myknees a number of times, tried
that on for size and how.
I was, truly I was surprised byall the peace that I was filled
with, because because whatcaused me to fall on my knees
(41:12):
was such great distress andanxiety in the first place, and
I wasn't expecting to be pulledback up to my feet with that
kind of peace.
I don't know why, but I wasn't.
Lenny (41:27):
So you kind of did what Peter says to cast your anxiety
on Christ, and it worked.
Melissa (41:34):
I did.
It's crazy how in certain times, you just find you literally
collapse out of distress andanxiety and I literally stood up
smiling.
So I would say the fast-pacedworld that we live in, kind of
multitasking, makes you more sopray while you're driving or
(41:55):
doing dishes, and there'snothing wrong with that at all,
but there is a joy and a comfortand a peace that comes from
posturing yourself.
Oh, I just wanted to say tooreal quick that that peace that
relieves anxiety, you wouldconnect in it with love, Knowing
(42:18):
in my great distress how muchI'm loved by Yahweh.
Provided that peace.
Lenny (42:25):
Amen.
So how does Paul recommend thatwe initiate this peace, this
peace that we have within us,that we know about Christ?
Melissa (42:36):
I would say by praying, pleading humbly and giving
thanks.
Lenny (42:42):
Amen to that.
He says it right there, doesn'the?
Melissa (42:45):
Mm-hmm.
Lenny (42:47):
Can this also include our thought life, our mindset as we
go throughout our day?
Absolutely thought, life, ourmindset as we go throughout our
day.
Absolutely, I just think thathaving all these ways of
communicating with God that Pauldisplays is just amazing and
it's going to build ourrelationship.
We want to talk to God, we wantto communicate with God our
gratefulness, we want to glorifyhim.
(43:08):
That feels really good to dothat.
So in this passage, is theguarding of the heart and mind
pertaining to living by grace.
Melissa (43:18):
Yes.
Lenny (43:19):
Yeah, our mindset being on grace is guarding our heart
and mind from unpure things.
Melissa (43:25):
That is living by grace , isn't it?
Lenny (43:28):
Yep, and what does a humble plead or prayer in
Thanksgiving look like to you?
Melissa (43:33):
Well, I do believe that everyone can come up with a
blessing in their life and, dareI say, at least three.
My dad always liked toencourage me to think of three
blessings.
That was something that washelpful for him, and he
encouraged me to do so as well.
When you're feeling bad and Ithink when we do focus on our
blessings, that humbles us andit makes us want to thank God
(43:58):
for those things.
Lenny (44:00):
And humbly pleading is just.
It's realizing that God can doit and you need him.
Continuing on.
Melissa (44:09):
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is
honorable, whatever is just,whatever is true, whatever is
honorable, whatever is just,whatever is pure, whatever is
lovely this sounds like graceliving.
Whatever is commendable, ifthere is any excellence, if
there is anything worthy ofpraise.
Think about these things, whatyou have learned and received.
Lenny (44:34):
Question number one Do you see the view here in Paul's
prayer that seems to be oppositeof what most of us have been
taught to focus on in our prayerlife.
Melissa (44:53):
Completely.
Lenny (44:55):
We were just talking about that.
So he's telling you to focus onexcellence, what's commendable,
what's lovely, what's pure.
And what I get from mostChristians who are going to
church regularly is you've gotto get your self-cleansing in
before you start your prayer,because otherwise God's not
going to be listening.
(45:15):
We might be told.
Our minds are trained to focuson getting right with God,
focusing on our sin and ourfilth.
But what's Paul saying here?
He's saying the opposite.
Melissa (45:28):
Focus on all the blessings you've been given from
the Lord.
Lenny (45:32):
Yeah, what Paul's trying to say is if you want to be good
, focus on good things.
That's too simple yeah.
But they weren't trained thatway.
Under law, under law, law was aconstant reminder of sin.
Melissa (45:49):
And it left you lacking , it left you needing something
you needed to come back youneeded forgiveness, but we have
it and paul knew that.
Lenny (45:59):
So do we ever see paul anywhere in scripture teach us
about pleading to god forforgiveness, humbly pleading and
begging for forgiveness do we?
Do we see paul ever mentionthat?
Melissa (46:09):
you pointed out that we don't we't.
Lenny (46:11):
And if you can find me a passage, please show me.
Would that be the humblepleading that Paul is displaying
in his prayers?
Pleading for forgiveness?
Absolutely not.
He doesn't say anything likethat.
Not at all.
If anything he's saying pleadthat God will lead you to what
is lovely, what is commendable.
Melissa (46:31):
Pleading that he would give you more knowledge of him
and his love.
Lenny (46:36):
He's not saying come to God like a filthy, rotten sinner
.
No, he's saying humbly, but aswho you are, you're a saint, so
pray for holy things.
Melissa (46:48):
This message is so freeing for the Christian to
understand.
I pray that so many peoplelistening will realize that.
Lenny (46:58):
I agree.
So does Paul rather and we kindof answered this already does
Paul rather set our focus onthanksgiving and good works
instead of sin and needing moreforgiveness?
He sure does.
Paul's prayer life shows uswhat Paul's mentality was, and I
(47:19):
guess we're supposed to believethat we're lesser or something
like we're less of a Christianthan Paul.
No, we're brothers.
announcement (47:26):
Paul was a brother a fellow Christian.
Lenny (47:27):
He was an apostle, but he wasn't above in any way that
made him any more holy to God.
Melissa (47:34):
Well, if he was, then why would he say what you have
learned and received and heardand seen in me, practice these
things, and the God of peacewill be with you?
If he wasn't saying I'm goingto be way better than you, so
don't even try to be like me.
He's telling them thateverything he is and he's taught
them they can have so he wasfocused on holiness.
Lenny (47:58):
He never gives any example of begging for
forgiveness.
I don't know where people getthat and as I say that I know
where they get I talk about allthe time.
I know where they're comingfrom.
But how you reconcile that withScripture is just it's
cognitive dissonance.
But continuing on what doesPaul believe will be the result
(48:22):
of living in thankfulness ofChrist Yeshua's work and
focusing on good and holy thingsrather than our sin?
What is Paul thinking theresult's going to be?
Melissa (48:31):
What everybody wants if they're being honest Peace.
Lenny (48:35):
Peace and holy living, perfect deeds and works.
No, we're human, but holyliving and a holy mindset is
going to make us who we are.
We're going to be acting likewho we are.
Melissa (48:50):
And I have seen that so much since we've come to
understand this.
Lenny (48:54):
So people think that the harder you preach on sin, the
harder you beat people down, themore they're going to change.
Well, why is the churchstruggling with sin?
So bad, then that approach, ifit's so great, why is it not
working?
Melissa (49:08):
Because it's there.
Why do I see self-righteous?
Self-righteous and people thatsee themselves as more victims
to sin?
Both of those viewpoints, Ithink, cause people to freeze up
.
Self-righteous people justthink that they're good enough
and the victimized people thinkthey're not good enough, and
(49:30):
they both just kind of freezeright there, right, and so they
don't have.
I'm trying to think how I wantto describe it if you're wanting
god to use you in this life andto feel fulfilled.
I just think about all thatpaul accomplished on this earth.
God had such a plan for him andwhen you look at the map in the
(49:51):
bible and you see his journeythat he made mostly on foot or
by ship, I mean, how could hepossibly have accomplished that?
If he was frozen up, thinkingthat, that he was self-righteous
or that he was just some sinnersaved by grace, he would never
have had the focus, the capacityof focus, on holy living.
Lenny (50:16):
So the final question should our prayer life ever
include pleading for forgiveness, and why?
Melissa (50:24):
No, because we have it.
Lenny (50:26):
I think we'll just keep it at that, Continuing on 1
Corinthians 1, verses 4-9.
Melissa (50:34):
I give thanks to my God , always for you, because of the
grace of God that was given youin Christ Jesus, that in every
way you were enriched in him, inall speech and knowledge, even
as the testimony about Christwas confirmed among you.
Lenny (50:51):
Earlier Paul wrote to other churches desiring that
they be filled with knowledge,love, peace.
How can we reconcile thisstatement with those he's saying
they were enriched in allspeech and knowledge?
I think that for me that justgoes back to the point we were
making earlier.
There's the knowledge thatcomes at salvation, and then
(51:12):
there's the further knowledge.
Melissa (51:13):
There's the knowledge that comes at salvation.
Lenny (51:14):
And then there's the further knowledge he's referring
to the full knowledge that youreceive when you just believe
there's a fullness there.
There's an essence of fullknowledge.
When you understand and believeat salvation, you're given a
full knowledge that saved youthat's right but it's like the
gas tank that is full but youcan keep filling it for some
reason.
(51:34):
That's spiritualness.
So do you find it odd that hetells the church who seemed
overall most sinful, allchurches in their behavior, the
Corinthians that they wereenriched in every way?
Melissa (51:50):
We were talking earlier about this that you were saying
.
It seemed he realized theylikely needed to hear that most
of all.
Lenny (51:59):
So the more problem with sin you have, the more grace you
need.
Melissa (52:03):
The more you need to realize yeah.
Lenny (52:06):
I thought you'd need more law.
You need some rules.
Melissa (52:10):
You need more grace, apparently, paul didn't think
that way.
Lenny (52:13):
He thought they needed more grace.
Yes, he needed them to bereminded of the fullness that
they received at salvationbecause they were probably extra
tempted to just keep thinkingabout all their sin and it could
be because they were a lot ofthem were building poorly on
that foundation, so he was kindof bringing them back.
Remember that fullness that youhad.
Start building on that instead,guys.
(52:35):
So continuing on verse 7.
Melissa (52:40):
So that you are not lacking in any spiritual gift as
you wait for the revealing ofour Lord Jesus Christ, who will
sustain you to the end,guiltless, in the day of our
Lord Jesus Christ.
Lenny (52:56):
First question In many areas of Scripture we see it
being said hold fast or holdtight in order to sustain to the
end.
How can he speak as if it'salready secure in this passage?
Melissa (53:07):
Because it is.
They're told that it is.
Lenny (53:10):
There again, you have that idea where you're holding
to what saved you Right?
You're mentally keeping that in.
Is there again?
You have that idea where you'reholding to what saved you.
Right, You're mentally keepingthat in mind, You're holding
fast to that till the end.
But when you believe you arealready in God's hands.
But when we start holding onloosely, we get distracted.
But we're always in his hands.
He doesn't let go.
Melissa (53:30):
He's holding on to us we talked about how paul says
grace and peace to you so muchbecause he wants us to remember,
constantly remember yep.
Lenny (53:40):
So why would he give the corinthians so much confidence?
We already kind of talked aboutthat.
They needed it.
They needed extra assurance inthe gospel.
And the last question for uh,for this passage do you think
that under today's standard,most of the people Paul wrote to
in Corinth would have been inand out of fellowship with the
Lord?
Melissa (53:59):
Well, that's sure not what Paul said.
Lenny (54:01):
No, not at all.
But under today's standard oursin breaks our fellowship.
So the Corinthians, if theywere under today's doctrine,
they would have been in and outof fellowship with God.
Today's doctrines would say tothe Corinthians your prayers
aren't being heard, you are asinner.
You need to get right with God.
Why did Paul not say that tothem?
Melissa (54:22):
It's just such error.
When you need Christ the most,you're supposed to view yourself
as not worthy to speak with him.
Lenny (54:29):
Yeah.
Melissa (54:30):
That's just complete non-Christian garbage.
Lenny (54:34):
We're going to cut it off here due to time, but verse 9
is where we're going to startnext week the rest of this verse
and we've been leading intothis the whole time so you're
going to want to stick aroundand hear next week's podcast so
we can finish this thing off.
Melissa (54:51):
Awesome.
I've really enjoyed talkingabout getting back to the belief
that we had when we firstbecame a Christian.
Lenny (54:58):
Amen, it's been great talking, melissa, it's been
great studying, and I hope youguys out there are enjoying this
study and we'll see you againnext week.
Melissa (55:06):
See you next week.
announcement (55:08):
Thank you for listening to the Waking Up to
Grace podcast brought to you bythe finished work of our Lord
Jesus Christ.
If you enjoyed today's episode,we would love to hear from you.
You can send encouragement ourway right from our episodes and
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Hello and welcome to the Waking Up to Grace
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And now here's Lenny.
Lenny (00:22):
Welcome back to the podcast, everyone, good morning.
Today we're going to becontinuing our study on.
Welcome back to the podcast,everyone, good morning.
Today we're going to becontinuing our study on Paul's
letter to the Romans and ourfocus is going to be on Romans,
chapter 1, verses 8 through 15.
I wanted to mention that thelast episode and this episode
were doing things a little bitdifferently.
We actually put together astudy guide to go through and
(00:46):
Melissa and I are going to begoing through it and giving our
answers based on what we see inthe passages as we go.
This study guide can be foundat wakinguptogracecom on the
episodes page that I link to inthe podcast description.
Another thought I had is, if youwanted to go about this in a
study fashion, you could pauseit whenever we ask a question
(01:08):
and think about the answer toyourself before you hear us
talking about it and see if thathelps at all.
Love it.
So, going into these verses 8through 15.
In the first chapter of Romans,verse 9 really stood out to me.
You want to read that, melissa.
Melissa (01:25):
For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in
the gospel of his Son, thatwithout ceasing, I mention you
always in my prayers.
Lenny (01:36):
So the topic just like last week, we're going to be
continuing is prayer.
Did you know that we have awindow into Paul's prayer that
we can look through in ourscripture?
In our Romans passage, we seePaul saying that he prays for
them without ceasing and isalways mentioning them in his
prayers.
So wouldn't it be insightful tohear what his prayers might
(01:57):
have sounded like?
My answer is a great big yes.
So how would you like to joinme on a study on Paul's prayers?
Melissa (02:05):
I'm in.
Lenny (02:05):
Well, let's dig in then, shall we?
Our first passage that we'regoing to look at comes from
Ephesians, chapter 1, verses 15through 23.
Melissa (02:15):
For this reason, because I have heard of your
faith in the Lord Jesus and yourlove toward all the saints, I
do not cease to give thanks foryou, remembering you in my
prayers.
Lenny (02:33):
That's the same verse that he used in Romans.
Are you noticing a theme from aRomans passage that carries
into this passage about prayer?
He doesn't cease.
I see that, but then I also seethis thing of giving thanks.
So he's starting out.
Whenever he's mentioning prayer, it seems that almost always
(02:54):
he's talking about giving thanks.
Melissa (02:57):
Good observation.
Lenny (02:58):
He seems very thankful and that seems to be the mindset
he wants to pass on to people,wouldn't you say?
Melissa (03:05):
Yes, giving thanks and not ceasing to do so.
Lenny (03:08):
So that's like the first thing that he thinks about when
Paul says prayer.
He thinks thankfulness.
So do you think Paul'sconsistent attitude of
thankfulness displays aGod-honoring mindset that we
should also strive?
Melissa (03:22):
to have in our lives, absolutely.
Lenny (03:24):
And why?
Why do you think that?
Melissa (03:26):
Well, I can say I think that because of recent
happenings in our life andtrying that on for size myself
and seeing how great it feels tostart prayer with thankfulness,
yeah, I would agree.
Lenny (03:42):
And just all the things that go on around us in the body
of Christ that you see in yourlife.
We see, and you guys out thereare seeing things, I'm sure, as
Christians in your life how Godis at work through the body and
then even directly to us, andjust giving thanks for that and
having a thankful attitude seemsto be what Paul's trying to
(04:04):
help us, along with a little bitto see things in that light.
Melissa (04:08):
Because there's always something to be thankful for,
isn't there?
Lenny (04:11):
I agree.
So why do you think Paul mightnever cease in his prayers and
why does he always mention this?
When we study the multitude ofpassages regarding prayer in
Paul's letters, we see forourselves that the theme of
giving thanks to God and neverceasing to pray for the saints
is echoed throughout all of hisprayers.
(04:32):
Paul is constantly thankful andregularly praying for his
brothers and sisters.
Why do you think that Paulwould never cease and why do you
think he would mention this tothem?
Why would he be alwaysmentioning to them I never stop
praying for you guys.
What do you think that we canlearn from that?
Melissa (04:51):
That it's very important for the body to remain
focused on Christ and buildeach other up in Christ every
moment of every day in this life.
Lenny (05:03):
We need each other every moment of every day in this life
.
We need each other, yeah, andthat thought process is guiding
us to live holy lives.
I would say, why is hementioning that he always prays
and that he never ceases to prayfor them?
Because it's keeping him ingrace living, it's keeping him
in that mindset of thankfulness.
Melissa (05:23):
So then you're not letting the world get a foothold
on you?
Lenny (05:26):
Exactly.
He's displaying that his mindis in tune to the Spirit.
Melissa (05:32):
Yes.
Lenny (05:32):
And that's not really something that stops for Paul.
As we continue in our Ephesianspassage, we get to observe the
content of Paul's prayer.
We get to see the things thathe desired for the Ephesians
through his prayer.
Melissa (05:47):
That the God of our Lord, Jesus Christ, the Father
of glory, may give you a spiritof wisdom and of revelation in
the knowledge of him, having theeyes of your hearts enlightened
, that you may know what is thehope to which he has called you,
what are the riches of hisglorious.
So our first question is wouldyou say.
Lenny (06:17):
Paul is looking beyond the simple understanding of
Christ Yeshua that brought thesaints in Ephesus to salvation.
Melissa (06:25):
That's a great big yes.
Lenny (06:28):
Yeah, I would agree.
He's not just talking about theknowledge that they had when
they came to Christ.
He's talking about somethingthat builds and something that
grows, isn't he?
Melissa (06:38):
He is.
He's encouraging them to desireto know all there is to know
about Yahweh, encouraging themto desire to know all there is
to know about Yahweh.
Lenny (06:45):
So what do you think the hope was that the saints at that
time were called to?
What were they hoping for thatwas going to happen?
It would have had to have beensomething they didn't already
have.
It was something that waspromised that hadn't come.
The coming of Christ, thereturn of Christ, the return of
(07:05):
Christ Right when he came, hewas going to bring salvation to
all the saints.
That was going to be when theygot resurrected from the dead
and brought to life.
See, they were promised life.
They had the Spirit, thelife-giving Spirit of Christ
living in them, but theresurrection was not going to
take place until the secondcoming.
(07:27):
There was no life for the deaduntil the second coming.
So they were hoping for that tohappen.
Melissa (07:34):
There was still Sheol at that time where they would go
, and the saints of old had gone.
Lenny (07:39):
Yep, and they were aware of that.
They knew that they were goingto face a physical death and
then have to wait, and they werewaiting in hopes that that
second coming would come,because christ defeated death,
but he hadn't opened the doorsto heaven and life to the saints
yet and that's a reallypowerful point.
(08:01):
We no longer die, exactly,saints no longer die yeah, it's
a very important we now go rightto heaven people don't think
about that without the secondcoming, you don't go right to
heaven there would have been adeath for us, which was defeated
, but there's still that waitingso the next question, shifting
(08:23):
the focus a little bit where doyou think they would find the
riches and immeasurablegreatness that would enlighten
their hearts?
Melissa (08:31):
By focusing and depending on Yeshua.
Lenny (08:36):
They're going to find that in Christ right.
They're going to find that inthe depth of the gospel Not just
the gospel that they heardimmediately there was a
revelation there, their eyeswere open but Paul's describing
a further depth after salvation,after regeneration, that
continues to grow and we'regoing to see that theme
(08:57):
throughout his prayers and as weread on.
Melissa (09:01):
According to the working of his great might, that
he worked in Christ when heraised him from the dead and
seated him at his right hand inthe heavenly places, far above
all rule and authority and powerand dominion and above every
name that is named, not only inthis age but also in the one to
(09:22):
come.
And he put all things under hisfeet and gave him as head over
all things to the church, whichis his body, the fullness of him
who fills all in all.
Lenny (09:37):
So do you think that Paul in this passage is describing
here the things that they hopedfor, the things that were coming
?
Yes, because he says not onlyin this age, but also in the one
to come.
The things that they have noware going to carry into the next
age as well, but it's going tobe more complete in the next age
(10:00):
.
See, the new covenant had begun, but there was a transition
going on.
They were still living in theold covenant age when the new
covenant began.
They overlapped, and so whenthe new age came, there was
great benefits to that.
Melissa (10:15):
Absolutely.
Lenny (10:16):
So yeah, he's describing what they hoped for.
They already had the promise,the seal of what they hoped for,
the spirit of Christ living inthem.
So that leads us to the nextquestion.
Can you see Paul proclaimingsome of the riches and
immeasurable greatness thatwould enlighten their hearts
here?
Yes, we read about that in thelast passage.
(10:37):
He's talking about the workingof his great might, that he
worked in Christ when he raisedhim from the dead and seated him
at his right hand in heavenlyplaces, far above all rule and
authority and power and dominion, above every name that is named
, all things under his feet.
He's explaining parts of thesedepths to them.
Melissa (11:02):
Who their God is.
Lenny (11:02):
What the immeasurable greatness is the resurrection of
the dead Christ, defeatingdeath, the coming resurrection
and the already defeated deaththat Christ defeated.
He was going to be defeating itfor the saints soon, according
to scripture.
Would you say that resurrection, life is a major component in
(11:23):
our faith as Christians?
Would you say that?
Melissa (11:25):
resurrection life is a major component in our faith as
Christians.
Absolutely, it's likeeverything.
Lenny (11:27):
Yeah, that is the faith.
That's why it's not religion,because we have life.
Christ gives us life.
That's the essence ofChristianity.
Yes, it is that life that is inus now.
We have that now.
They hope for it and we havethe complete version of it now.
Melissa (11:48):
Yahweh is the only God to deliver in such a way.
Lenny (11:53):
Absolutely so.
What did resurrection life haveto do with the church in
Ephesus If Christ had not raisedthe dead yet?
Melissa (12:01):
It was important to understand their hope and what
was to come.
Lenny (12:04):
Yeah, we kind of touched on that.
They had the seal of the spirit, the promise of that life.
The spirit gave them thepromise of that.
It reconciled them to God.
It's a big deal that they hadreconciliation to God.
They were right with God, readyfor the resurrection now, but
the resurrection life had notbeen given yet so, as they were
(12:26):
inching closer to 70 ad, thedestruction of jerusalem and
christ's second coming.
Melissa (12:31):
It was going to get very, very dark, very, very
difficult, and paul wasencouraging them to remember
what they had, the hope they had, what was to come and a great
light would be shining in thatdarkness, as dark as that time
was.
Lenny (12:47):
during that destruction of the temple in Jerusalem, the
light of life was going to beilluminated for the saints at
that time through the fieryinferno.
God works through darkness.
He shows us light throughdarkness, doesn't he?
Melissa (13:03):
He does, and that's the only way to really get through
it.
Focusing on the light.
Lenny (13:09):
Our next passages come from the third chapter of Paul's
letter to the Ephesians, verses14 through 21.
Melissa (13:16):
For this reason, I bow my knees before the Father.
Lenny (13:20):
So stopping there.
The question is do you thinkPaul meant this literally?
Is Paul teaching us a posturefor humble prayer, a posture
that maybe he actually used?
I would say yes.
I would say yes as well.
Paul's showing us that he washumbly praying, literally bowing
his knees before the Father.
(13:41):
This wasn't just his thoughtlife.
I think it's important undergrace to realize that our
thought prayers count.
But Paul's displayingintentional prayers.
He did both.
He was living in thought prayerand he was also living by
intentional prayer.
I think that's important torealize.
That means there's a benefit toit.
(14:02):
It doesn't mean it's a rule.
You're going to start making alist of all the things you have
to do every day, but if wediscipline ourselves and make
our own rules for ourselvesbased on our freedom, I don't
see any problem with that, aslong as you know that that's not
the rule to fellowship, therule to salvation.
But these are things thatbenefit us.
These are things that are goingto be proven because Paul did
(14:24):
it.
Melissa (14:25):
Right, and as you're saying that I kind of think
about love in a marriage, I cantell you that I love you with
words.
I can display it by spendingtime with you.
Sometimes I just need to wrapmy arms around you.
There's different ways.
Lenny (14:40):
Yeah, so we have all these ways to connect with God.
Melissa (14:46):
And in recent times you and I've been talking about
posture, and I've found that intimes of desperation, sometimes
all you can do is fall to yourknees, and the peace that comes
is really surprising those arespecial moments.
Lenny (15:00):
It really surprised me, yeah, and you just think, well,
maybe I want more of that.
Melissa (15:04):
Mm-hmm.
Lenny (15:05):
And we can do that.
Melissa (15:07):
From whom every family in heaven and on earth is named,
that according to the riches ofhis glory he may grant you to
be strengthened with powerthrough his spirit in your inner
being, so that Christ may dwellin your hearts through faith.
Lenny (15:24):
Do you see Paul displaying the sovereign power
of Yahweh as creator here?
Melissa (15:29):
I do.
Lenny (15:30):
He absolutely does.
He's saying from whom everyfamily in heaven and on earth is
named.
That's Yahweh.
He named everything, he createdeverything.
The thankfulness that we talkabout, being thankful, paul's
theme of being thankful, alsoglorifying God when we pray is
very meaningful and a very funway to connect with the Lord.
(15:53):
So Paul's saying to himself andto the church the one who named
everything, the one who createdeverything and you see that
said so much about Yahweh inScripture he is the creator of
all things.
Through him, all things werecreated.
Without him, nothing thatexists would exist right.
Melissa (16:13):
So they're praising them, they're glorifying them
and we talked about howimportant names were in that
time.
At that time it was a big thingto say son of such and such.
Your name was your identity,and so christ is our identity.
That's a really big deal and henamed us.
Lenny (16:33):
He named us.
He named us saints.
He named us a new creation.
He named us his brothers andsisters.
Right when we glorify him, weactually understand our identity
.
So don't we already have Christdwelling in us?
By faith, though?
What does Paul mean by this?
Melissa (16:53):
He dwells in us.
But if we don't reallyunderstand who it is that's
dwelling in us, then there's abig gap there, there's a big
lacking exactly that's exactlywhat he's saying.
Lenny (17:07):
he's saying that he wants them to be strengthened with
the power through his spirit intheir inner being so that christ
may dwell in their heartsthrough faith.
So Christ is already dwellingin us and to me I see just an
example of the things that wetalk about often in our podcasts
that there's the belief thatsaved you and then the belief
(17:27):
that we continue in.
That builds us up in grace, thegrace living belief, the
constant belief and the buildingon that belief.
Melissa (17:39):
Constantly waking up to more and more.
Lenny (17:40):
Yeah, so christ is in the core of our being, but is he on
the forefront of our mind?
Heart and mind can beinterchangeable in a sense, but
the heart is like the core ofthe mind, it's like what's
producing those thoughts.
It goes a little deeper, but ifwe hold to that and live by
that faith, that's in our hearts, it's on the forefront of our
(18:01):
mind.
That would be more like beingfilled with it right From the
inner being to the outer being.
Melissa (18:07):
Yes, absolutely.
I just had a thought that it'sreminding me of.
If somebody didn't understandour currency, let's say, or
somebody didn't understand thevalue of money, and you gave
them a million dollars, and sothey have it, put it in a box,
and they know it's supposed tobe special, but they don't know
(18:30):
how to use it.
They don't know what it reallymeans and what the value really
is, then it's just going to stayin that box and they're not
really going to think about it.
They're not going to benefitfrom it.
Lenny (18:43):
Yeah.
Melissa (18:43):
So it kind of reminds me of that.
Lenny (18:45):
You gave it to them and you told them this is valuable
and they believed you Right.
But they never really went onto understand just how valuable
it was.
Melissa (18:53):
Right.
Lenny (18:54):
Yeah, that's definitely what we're seeing here.
And then he continues on.
Melissa (18:58):
That you, being rooted and grounded in love, may have
strength to comprehend with allthe saints what is the breadth
and length and height and depth,and to know the love of Christ
that surpasses knowledge, thatyou may be filled with all the
fullness of God.
Lenny (19:18):
That one's kind of a tongue twister.
It makes me want to say breadth, length, height and depth, but
it's just height.
I think I did that in anepisode.
Oh, that's great, but thequestion is, would you agree
that this passage helps explainthe previous one?
I would, yeah, he's kind,explain the previous one I would
.
Yeah, he's kind of explainingwhat he meant by that.
(19:41):
He's not telling them that youdon't understand the gospel.
He's not telling them that youweren't saved by the gospel.
You need to understand this soyou can be saved.
He wasn't telling them thathe's wanting them rooted and
grounded in it.
Melissa (19:53):
Rooted and grounded and having the strength wow to
comprehend.
Lenny (19:59):
It takes strength to comprehend so what do you pray
for?
I'd be praying for thatstrength.
Yes, I want to be filled withthat, right, right.
Melissa (20:10):
So that's something we can pray for and I'm thinking
about how amazing the temple wasin jerusalem at that time and
remember all the passages in theold testament where everything
down to a t, to the tiniestbread, length, height, depth
yeah, was all calculated to themand it had to be exact yeah and
(20:32):
so I'm thinking about that'sgot to be part of why he
mentioned that, because everyoneknew how magnificent that
temple was yeah, you're probablyright time that temple was
built spiritually, but withhuman hands right the temple of
christ, the true temple, thetrue israel, the spiritual
temple that our bodies are withthe christ dwelling in them, is
(20:54):
amazing.
Lenny (20:55):
A lot of people don't realize just how amazing that is
, that that temple you'redescribing, we're the spiritual
version that's not built withhuman hands.
We're part of that and Christis the head.
Melissa (21:07):
Amen, and I was a Christian a very long time
before I gave that any thought.
Lenny (21:12):
It's so amazing.
So the next question how can weknow the love that surpasses
knowledge without knowledge?
I thought that was kind ofinteresting.
You read that passage and hesays and to know the love of
Christ that surpasses knowledge.
So you have to know it in orderto surpass the knowledge.
(21:32):
You have to have knowledge tosurpass knowledge.
Isn't that interesting?
Melissa (21:37):
Yeah.
Lenny (21:39):
So how do we get this?
Melissa (21:41):
Yeah, we can't know it without praying for it, focusing
on it.
Lenny (21:46):
Exactly.
That's true, but the othertruth is that it takes knowledge
to rise above knowledge.
It takes spiritual knowledge inorder to rise above knowledge.
Melissa (21:57):
So is he saying, to spiritually know the love of
Christ that surpasses worldlyknowledge.
Lenny (22:03):
I would say yeah, I think that's a perfect example.
I would say think of all theknowledge that the first century
Jews had, Think of all theknowledge they had of God, and
yet they rejected their ownmessiah they were taught to
memorize they knew scripture,scripture yeah, young age and
(22:24):
I'm all for people saying youshould read your bible, but if
you take that to a certain levelwhere reading your bible and
having biblical knowledge is theonly way to grow, that that's
not true.
Understanding your Bible is moreimportant than reading it,
because the first century Jewswere way smarter than us about
Scripture and yet they weren'tsaved many of them.
(22:45):
They couldn't see the truth.
Melissa (22:48):
We can't lean on our own understanding.
It's not about our knowledge.
It's about the knowledge thatChrist gives us and we can pray
for that.
So Christ is the knowledge thatchrist gives us and we can pray
for that.
Lenny (22:57):
So christ is the knowledge that surpasses
knowledge.
Knowledge of christ surpassesall knowledge.
If you know christ, you are inreality.
The rest of the world has noclue.
We're lost that's a very goodway to say it is being filled
with all the fullness of God,being filled with his love.
(23:20):
Could those things be similarto each other?
Melissa (23:23):
Well, it would have to, because if you have all the
fullness of God, certainly youhave his love.
Lenny (23:28):
Yeah, he's talking about.
The love of Christ is whatsurpasses knowledge.
The love that Christ displayedfor us is what surpasses
knowledge.
And then, right after that,he's saying be filled with all
the fullness of God.
That's the love of God.
It's got to be and so I thinkyou could also say pray to
understand the love of God andhere's even better question for
(23:50):
you do you think we can becompletely full of the love of
God?
Melissa (23:56):
I think we can, because Paul says that you may be
filled with all the fullness ofGod.
Lenny (24:02):
Why would he say that?
I've come to think of that in asense, like I was saying
earlier, where it's like whenour inner mind that comes from
Christ is being connected withthe forefront of our mind.
So, yeah, I believe we can becompletely full of this.
I believe it's when we're ingrace, when we're living in
(24:25):
thankfulness for what God didfor us, and not living in
religion.
Melissa (24:31):
Agreed and, as you're saying that, I'm thinking I
wonder if we ever can becompletely full in this life,
because I do think it's a becompletely full in this life,
because I do think it's alifelong journey, learning the
depths.
It is the breadth, the length,the height, the depth, so maybe
completely full is heaven.
Lenny (24:49):
I think it depends on context, Because we see both
views coming from Paul and we'llsee it more as we read further
on.
There's a fullness that we canhave and then there's a fullness
that we're seeking becausewe're always growing.
So it's used in different waysand in different contexts.
Kind of like Paul uses walkingby the spirit, the spiritual do
(25:11):
walk by the spirit, but then inanother sense, we're not always
walking by the spirit.
Melissa (25:16):
Sometimes we're looking at the flesh so another way to
say it could be on god's, onyahweh's end.
Because of yeshua, we arealways walking by the spirit.
We are completely full we'respiritual beings on a spiritual
level we are, but to understandthat fully, to fully understand
(25:39):
how full we are, how close andwalking with Yeshua we are,
that's a lifelong journey, itseems.
Lenny (25:47):
Our understanding.
It's an infinite depth.
I would say that fullunderstanding of grace.
But understanding it andbuilding on it and just
understanding it fills you witheverything you need.
You have everything you need.
Melissa (26:02):
That's an exciting journey to be on.
Lenny (26:04):
So you're full already as you're filling your tank.
I wish I had a car thatoperated like that.
I know you do.
You hate to stop and forget.
I know you do.
Melissa (26:15):
You hate to stop and forget?
Next question Do you think thatthe common Christian today
realizes the power of theresurrection life of Christ.
No, because I'm a commonChristian that can testify to
that.
Not until more recently in myChristian walk that I understand
there was any more to know.
Lenny (26:38):
Yeah, I think there was a point where we understood grace
and kind of thought like that'sall there is to know, before we
realized how much deeper youcan go and you just don't really
stop, you don't really say well, I'm done studying, I'm done
reading, I'm done seekingdifferent truths.
Why would you do that?
Melissa (26:56):
Never.
Lenny (26:57):
I think that was the silliest thing that we ever did
at one point is to think in sucha way as far as Christianity
today, just understanding thetrue power of the gospel, the
resurrection life that liveswithin them.
I think that's really gottenlost in religion today and we're
going to be talking about that.
We're going to be talking aboutthe negative side of the way
(27:21):
that prayer is taught today,where we see Paul talking about
thankfulness, glorifying God.
And today I see a differentteaching going on repetitively
in the institutional churches,where your sin is the primary
focus, where begging for mercyand forgiveness consumes the
(27:41):
Christian thought life.
Melissa (27:43):
It's tragic.
Lenny (27:45):
You would actually ruin somebody's prayer life if you
told them that you don't needany more forgiveness.
Melissa (27:51):
It's tragic.
It really upsets me to thinkabout I'll just leave it at this
saying that the institutionalchurches teach people to depend
on them the pastors, the eldersand their building rather than
depend on Christ.
Lenny (28:06):
So they're not being filled, being filled with
religion.
Melissa (28:09):
They're being filled with religion.
Paul wanted you to be filledwith the Spirit, not religion.
Lenny (28:15):
So continuing.
Melissa (28:17):
Now to him, who is able to do far more abundantly than
all we ask or think, accordingto the power at work within us.
To him be glory in the churchand in Christ Jesus throughout
all generations, forever andever.
Amen.
Lenny (28:35):
So who is this him that he's referring to here?
Melissa (28:39):
None other than Yahweh.
Lenny (28:42):
Now to him, who is able to do far more abundantly than
all that we ask or think,basically saying anything that
you ask in your prayers or thinkin your thought life.
He can do far more abundantlythan any of those things.
I've seen it Absolutely so.
The next question is what wasthe power at work within them?
Melissa (29:06):
The Holy Spirit.
Lenny (29:08):
The power of the Holy Spirit.
So can we conclude that all ofthem had the Spirit living in
them, but Paul desired that theylive their lives with that in
the forefront of their heartsand minds.
Melissa (29:19):
Yes, and we were talking about that.
We have everything that we need, but if it's not at the
forefront, you don't realize.
Lenny (29:26):
Yep, what we see in front of our faces, the worldly,
tangible, physical things, iswhat our minds automatically
focus on.
We have to actually train ourminds to be thinking spiritually
.
Melissa (29:40):
It's like we were talking about earlier how
devastating that is.
You actually have everythingthat you need and you think
you're lacking.
Lenny (29:48):
So our next passage comes from Paul's letter to the
church in Philippi, chapter 1,verses 3 through 11.
Melissa (29:56):
I thank my God here's thankfulness again in all my
remembrance of you, always, inevery prayer of mine for you all
, making my prayer with joybecause of your partnership in
the gospel from the first dayuntil now.
Lenny (30:13):
So why was Paul so thankful and joyful about the
Philippian saints?
Melissa (30:18):
He valued his brothers and sisters in the faith.
Lenny (30:21):
Specifically, he says because of their partnership in
the gospel from the first dayuntil now.
So he's saying that they werepartners in the gospel from the
day they believed, even untilnow.
Melissa (30:34):
So they are understanding.
That's what he was thankful for.
Lenny (30:37):
Yeah, he was thankful for that, that they were continuing
in what they heard.
From the beginning they werepartnering in the gospel.
Melissa (30:45):
Boy, I can relate with that.
We've talked a lot about howit's really difficult when you
have brothers and sisters in thefaith that don't want to dive
deep with you.
Lenny (30:53):
Yeah.
Melissa (30:54):
Don't seem to care.
Lenny (30:56):
Going to church isn't partnering in the gospel.
It doesn't qualify aspartnering in the gospel unless
the people in the church are allsomehow partnering in the
gospel.
Melissa (31:07):
Going to a conventional church.
Lenny (31:08):
The building doesn't qualify that in any shape, way
or form.
So do you think that thisgospel-centered living should
apply to Christians today, andif so, what does that look like?
Melissa (31:21):
I say absolutely it should, because that's going to
allow us to be filled with allthe fullness of God.
Lenny (31:30):
Exactly.
And what does that look like?
Well, I think Paul's describingit in his prayers here.
We learned so much from hisprayer Thankfulness, glorifying
Yahweh, being thankful to Yahwehfor what he did.
He never says beat yourself upover your sin.
He never says beg God thathe'll see you as a saint.
(31:51):
You nasty sinner.
Melissa (31:53):
You pointed that out to me and it is so eye-opening,
sinner, you pointed that out tome and it is so eye-opening and
it also looks like partnershipin the gospel, rejoicing in
truth, full truth.
Lenny (32:03):
Exactly being of one mind and spirit, as was written in
Acts.
Melissa (32:09):
It kind of reminds me.
If you're not doing that, itmakes me think of you.
Know, it's fun when you're fiveyears old and you're playing
with other five-year-olds.
But then, when you're ten andyou're playing with
five-year-olds, you might stilllove them as a friend, or maybe
it's your brother and sister butyou're starting to desire to
(32:29):
grow and they're not there yet,so that bond is hindered.
Lenny (32:33):
And you're not experiencing any growth by
hanging out with them.
Nobody can grow.
Melissa (32:37):
You've kind of outgrown that age you can't grow.
I should say, yeah, it remindsme of that.
Lenny (32:43):
And continuing on.
Melissa (32:45):
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in
you will bring it to completionat the day of Jesus Christ.
It is right for me to feel thisway about you all, because I
(33:08):
hold you in my heart.
Lenny (33:10):
First question why was Paul so sure that the Lord would
complete his good work andthose he wrote to?
Melissa (33:18):
Because it's promised to all believers.
Lenny (33:21):
Yeah, and he even says it's right for me to feel this
way about you all, because theywere partakers with him of grace
.
Melissa (33:30):
Because Yahweh began a good work in them.
Lenny (33:33):
They were defending the gospel.
They believed in the gospel.
And here's the next question.
Here's the real zinger what wasthe completion of the work that
he was describing, and whenwould it take place?
I think we often think thatwe're working our way up, we're
progressively being sanctifiedor something becoming this
(33:55):
better status.
At the end, we're going toachieve this, some kind of
status.
But what was he really talkingabout here?
What do you think he was reallytalking?
Melissa (34:05):
about here.
Lenny (34:05):
What was going to take place, that God's work would be
complete in them.
Melissa (34:10):
The complete finished work of Yahweh, the complete
finished work of Yeshua.
Lenny (34:16):
What was the final act that he was going to perform?
Melissa (34:19):
When he came on the clouds and he opened the doors
to heaven, exactly the secondcoming.
Lenny (34:24):
The resurrection, the spiritual resurrection of the
dead.
Exactly that's what they werehoping for, and that was the
completed work that they werewaiting for.
Melissa (34:36):
Yes.
Lenny (34:36):
He finished it.
Melissa (34:38):
A fellow brother in Christ described to us their
thought on what it looks likenow when we go to heaven.
It resonated with me.
I never thought about it likethis before.
I guess I didn't truly realizethat we don't die as Christians
because our bodies die.
But a fellow brother in Christdescribed it as it seemed to
(34:58):
them that it's like a veil islifted when you transfer over
into heaven.
Yes, our bodies die but in ourinner being.
A veil is lifted and we are nowin the heavenly realms.
That's what it's like for thespiritual.
That's what that final work ofChrist ushered in if you will.
Lenny (35:21):
So actually, when a Christian dies, they're actually
being resurrected to life.
Melissa (35:28):
Yeah, that's a better way to say it.
Lenny (35:30):
Everything in the spiritual realm tends to be
opposite of what we see.
Yes, where actually, when aChristian dies, they just went
on to life?
Melissa (35:39):
I'm going to start referring to it as that
Christian dies.
No, a Christian didn't die.
A Christian was resurrected tolife.
Lenny (35:48):
Exactly.
Melissa (35:49):
That's really important to understand.
Lenny (35:51):
Yeah, you didn't see it happen, but it happened.
It's the unseen realm.
Melissa (35:56):
Because otherwise it sounds too much like the world,
kind of like getting the namesright Yahweh and Yeshua and
getting the real meaning out ofthat.
That's how I see that.
Lenny (36:07):
Amen.
Melissa (36:27):
Continue in our next passage, and so be pure and
blameless for the day of Christ,filled with the fruit of
righteousness that comes throughJesus Christ, to the glory and
praise of God.
Lenny (36:41):
Okay, question number one what was the day of Christ?
Melissa (36:46):
70 AD.
Lenny (36:48):
The second coming Coming in the clouds, parousia, the
preterist view.
Question number two does paulseem to think that this day
would be coming soon?
Scholars are almost unanimousthat the apostles believed it
was going to happen in theirgeneration.
Why did they believe that?
Because christ told him that.
(37:09):
He literally told him that.
so we know that paul, definitelyin his letters, has this idea
in his mind that it's happeningsoon yes question number three
was their behavior the drivingforce that would make them pure
and blameless for the day ofchrist?
It was not the driving force.
(37:29):
The driving force was what weread about earlier, the renewing
of the mind that Paul mentionsin his writing.
It was the growth in the gospel, it was the knowledge of the
love of Christ that surpassedall knowledge, that develops us
into what God wants us to be.
That's what makes us holy,that's what gives us holy
(37:50):
thoughts.
And we're going to be realizing, as we continue in this study,
that Paul's telling you to focuson holy things.
He's not telling you to focuson your sin life.
He's looking at it kind of likeyou'd say well, why are you
thinking so negative?
You should be thinking positive.
He's telling you to focus onholiness, not sin.
Melissa (38:11):
Be filled with the fruit of righteousness that
comes through Jesus Christ.
The fruit of righteousness, thebelief of righteousness.
Lenny (38:20):
That's question number four.
Melissa (38:23):
What would you?
Lenny (38:23):
say the fruit of righteousness, might refer to in
this passage the truth andbelief about their righteousness
.
Yeah, it was Christ'srighteousness that produces the
fruit that we bear.
It's Christ's righteousness.
The final question on thispassage, then, is does behavior
apply here and, if so, how?
Melissa (38:43):
Behavior does not apply here.
Lenny (38:46):
It doesn't exactly apply here, but I would say that
behavior does apply, in thesense that holy behavior all
stems from holy thinking Focus.
If you're focusing on holythings, if you're hoping for
holy things, holy behavior tendsto follow.
Melissa (39:05):
Your behavior should be depending on Yahweh.
Lenny (39:09):
And how do you know what's holy?
Because you know the love thatChrist gave.
And he said to his disciplesthis is how they'll know you're
my disciples If you love oneanother as I have loved you.
What he's telling them is tofocus on the love that he has
for them, and they didn't evenknow what that was yet.
They were going to find outPhilippians 4, verses 6 through
(39:33):
9.
They were going to find outPhilippians 4, verses 6 through
9.
Melissa (39:34):
Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything.
By prayer and supplication,with thanksgiving, let your
requests be made known to God,and the peace of God, which
surpasses all understanding,will guard your hearts and your
minds in Christ Jesus.
Lenny (39:55):
All right, so supplication here.
Just in case anybody doesn'tknow I had to look it up it's to
plead humbly, so prayer andpleading with thanksgiving.
Question number one we readearlier in Ephesians 3.19, that
the love of Christ surpasses allknowledge.
Do you think this is one in thesame, that the love of Christ
surpasses all knowledge?
(40:16):
Do you think this is one andthe same as the peace of God
that is mentioned here?
I think so, the peace of Godwhich surpasses all
understanding.
I think that sounds about thesame.
We get peace from his love.
Melissa (40:27):
Oh, we sure do.
Lenny (40:28):
I mean you're reconciled to the true living God.
There is no time in historybefore the cross that that ever
happened.
Before the resurrection, theSpirit was given, there was no
reconciliation.
Reconciliation happened at thecross.
It sure did.
That gives you peace, doesn'tit?
Melissa (40:45):
It really does.
Lenny (40:47):
So would that peace relieve anxiety?
Melissa (40:51):
It definitely would, and I just want to quickly
mention that during somedifficult times that have been
going on in our life.
I mentioned that I've hit myknees a number of times, tried
that on for size and how.
I was, truly I was surprised byall the peace that I was filled
with, because because whatcaused me to fall on my knees
(41:12):
was such great distress andanxiety in the first place, and
I wasn't expecting to be pulledback up to my feet with that
kind of peace.
I don't know why, but I wasn't.
Lenny (41:27):
So you kind of did what Peter says to cast your anxiety
on Christ, and it worked.
Melissa (41:34):
I did.
It's crazy how in certain times, you just find you literally
collapse out of distress andanxiety and I literally stood up
smiling.
So I would say the fast-pacedworld that we live in, kind of
multitasking, makes you more sopray while you're driving or
(41:55):
doing dishes, and there'snothing wrong with that at all,
but there is a joy and a comfortand a peace that comes from
posturing yourself.
Oh, I just wanted to say tooreal quick that that peace that
relieves anxiety, you wouldconnect in it with love, Knowing
(42:18):
in my great distress how muchI'm loved by Yahweh.
Provided that peace.
Lenny (42:25):
Amen.
So how does Paul recommend thatwe initiate this peace, this
peace that we have within us,that we know about Christ?
Melissa (42:36):
I would say by praying, pleading humbly and giving
thanks.
Lenny (42:42):
Amen to that.
He says it right there, doesn'the?
Melissa (42:45):
Mm-hmm.
Lenny (42:47):
Can this also include our thought life, our mindset as we
go throughout our day?
Absolutely thought, life, ourmindset as we go throughout our
day.
Absolutely, I just think thathaving all these ways of
communicating with God that Pauldisplays is just amazing and
it's going to build ourrelationship.
We want to talk to God, we wantto communicate with God our
gratefulness, we want to glorifyhim.
(43:08):
That feels really good to dothat.
So in this passage, is theguarding of the heart and mind
pertaining to living by grace.
Melissa (43:18):
Yes.
Lenny (43:19):
Yeah, our mindset being on grace is guarding our heart
and mind from unpure things.
Melissa (43:25):
That is living by grace , isn't it?
Lenny (43:28):
Yep, and what does a humble plead or prayer in
Thanksgiving look like to you?
Melissa (43:33):
Well, I do believe that everyone can come up with a
blessing in their life and, dareI say, at least three.
My dad always liked toencourage me to think of three
blessings.
That was something that washelpful for him, and he
encouraged me to do so as well.
When you're feeling bad and Ithink when we do focus on our
blessings, that humbles us andit makes us want to thank God
(43:58):
for those things.
Lenny (44:00):
And humbly pleading is just.
It's realizing that God can doit and you need him.
Continuing on.
Melissa (44:09):
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is
honorable, whatever is just,whatever is true, whatever is
honorable, whatever is just,whatever is pure, whatever is
lovely this sounds like graceliving.
Whatever is commendable, ifthere is any excellence, if
there is anything worthy ofpraise.
Think about these things, whatyou have learned and received.
Lenny (44:34):
Question number one Do you see the view here in Paul's
prayer that seems to be oppositeof what most of us have been
taught to focus on in our prayerlife.
Melissa (44:53):
Completely.
Lenny (44:55):
We were just talking about that.
So he's telling you to focus onexcellence, what's commendable,
what's lovely, what's pure.
And what I get from mostChristians who are going to
church regularly is you've gotto get your self-cleansing in
before you start your prayer,because otherwise God's not
going to be listening.
(45:15):
We might be told.
Our minds are trained to focuson getting right with God,
focusing on our sin and ourfilth.
But what's Paul saying here?
He's saying the opposite.
Melissa (45:28):
Focus on all the blessings you've been given from
the Lord.
Lenny (45:32):
Yeah, what Paul's trying to say is if you want to be good
, focus on good things.
That's too simple yeah.
But they weren't trained thatway.
Under law, under law, law was aconstant reminder of sin.
Melissa (45:49):
And it left you lacking , it left you needing something
you needed to come back youneeded forgiveness, but we have
it and paul knew that.
Lenny (45:59):
So do we ever see paul anywhere in scripture teach us
about pleading to god forforgiveness, humbly pleading and
begging for forgiveness do we?
Do we see paul ever mentionthat?
Melissa (46:09):
you pointed out that we don't we't.
Lenny (46:11):
And if you can find me a passage, please show me.
Would that be the humblepleading that Paul is displaying
in his prayers?
Pleading for forgiveness?
Absolutely not.
He doesn't say anything likethat.
Not at all.
If anything he's saying pleadthat God will lead you to what
is lovely, what is commendable.
Melissa (46:31):
Pleading that he would give you more knowledge of him
and his love.
Lenny (46:36):
He's not saying come to God like a filthy, rotten sinner
.
No, he's saying humbly, but aswho you are, you're a saint, so
pray for holy things.
Melissa (46:48):
This message is so freeing for the Christian to
understand.
I pray that so many peoplelistening will realize that.
Lenny (46:58):
I agree.
So does Paul rather and we kindof answered this already does
Paul rather set our focus onthanksgiving and good works
instead of sin and needing moreforgiveness?
He sure does.
Paul's prayer life shows uswhat Paul's mentality was, and I
(47:19):
guess we're supposed to believethat we're lesser or something
like we're less of a Christianthan Paul.
No, we're brothers.
announcement (47:26):
Paul was a brother a fellow Christian.
Lenny (47:27):
He was an apostle, but he wasn't above in any way that
made him any more holy to God.
Melissa (47:34):
Well, if he was, then why would he say what you have
learned and received and heardand seen in me, practice these
things, and the God of peacewill be with you?
If he wasn't saying I'm goingto be way better than you, so
don't even try to be like me.
He's telling them thateverything he is and he's taught
them they can have so he wasfocused on holiness.
Lenny (47:58):
He never gives any example of begging for
forgiveness.
I don't know where people getthat and as I say that I know
where they get I talk about allthe time.
I know where they're comingfrom.
But how you reconcile that withScripture is just it's
cognitive dissonance.
But continuing on what doesPaul believe will be the result
(48:22):
of living in thankfulness ofChrist Yeshua's work and
focusing on good and holy thingsrather than our sin?
What is Paul thinking theresult's going to be?
Melissa (48:31):
What everybody wants if they're being honest Peace.
Lenny (48:35):
Peace and holy living, perfect deeds and works.
No, we're human, but holyliving and a holy mindset is
going to make us who we are.
We're going to be acting likewho we are.
Melissa (48:50):
And I have seen that so much since we've come to
understand this.
Lenny (48:54):
So people think that the harder you preach on sin, the
harder you beat people down, themore they're going to change.
Well, why is the churchstruggling with sin?
So bad, then that approach, ifit's so great, why is it not
working?
Melissa (49:08):
Because it's there.
Why do I see self-righteous?
Self-righteous and people thatsee themselves as more victims
to sin?
Both of those viewpoints, Ithink, cause people to freeze up
.
Self-righteous people justthink that they're good enough
and the victimized people thinkthey're not good enough, and
(49:30):
they both just kind of freezeright there, right, and so they
don't have.
I'm trying to think how I wantto describe it if you're wanting
god to use you in this life andto feel fulfilled.
I just think about all thatpaul accomplished on this earth.
God had such a plan for him andwhen you look at the map in the
(49:51):
bible and you see his journeythat he made mostly on foot or
by ship, I mean, how could hepossibly have accomplished that?
If he was frozen up, thinkingthat, that he was self-righteous
or that he was just some sinnersaved by grace, he would never
have had the focus, the capacityof focus, on holy living.
Lenny (50:16):
So the final question should our prayer life ever
include pleading for forgiveness, and why?
Melissa (50:24):
No, because we have it.
Lenny (50:26):
I think we'll just keep it at that, Continuing on 1
Corinthians 1, verses 4-9.
Melissa (50:34):
I give thanks to my God , always for you, because of the
grace of God that was given youin Christ Jesus, that in every
way you were enriched in him, inall speech and knowledge, even
as the testimony about Christwas confirmed among you.
Lenny (50:51):
Earlier Paul wrote to other churches desiring that
they be filled with knowledge,love, peace.
How can we reconcile thisstatement with those he's saying
they were enriched in allspeech and knowledge?
I think that for me that justgoes back to the point we were
making earlier.
There's the knowledge thatcomes at salvation, and then
(51:12):
there's the further knowledge.
Melissa (51:13):
There's the knowledge that comes at salvation.
Lenny (51:14):
And then there's the further knowledge he's referring
to the full knowledge that youreceive when you just believe
there's a fullness there.
There's an essence of fullknowledge.
When you understand and believeat salvation, you're given a
full knowledge that saved youthat's right but it's like the
gas tank that is full but youcan keep filling it for some
reason.
(51:34):
That's spiritualness.
So do you find it odd that hetells the church who seemed
overall most sinful, allchurches in their behavior, the
Corinthians that they wereenriched in every way?
Melissa (51:50):
We were talking earlier about this that you were saying
.
It seemed he realized theylikely needed to hear that most
of all.
Lenny (51:59):
So the more problem with sin you have, the more grace you
need.
Melissa (52:03):
The more you need to realize yeah.
Lenny (52:06):
I thought you'd need more law.
You need some rules.
Melissa (52:10):
You need more grace, apparently, paul didn't think
that way.
Lenny (52:13):
He thought they needed more grace.
Yes, he needed them to bereminded of the fullness that
they received at salvationbecause they were probably extra
tempted to just keep thinkingabout all their sin and it could
be because they were a lot ofthem were building poorly on
that foundation, so he was kindof bringing them back.
Remember that fullness that youhad.
Start building on that instead,guys.
(52:35):
So continuing on verse 7.
Melissa (52:40):
So that you are not lacking in any spiritual gift as
you wait for the revealing ofour Lord Jesus Christ, who will
sustain you to the end,guiltless, in the day of our
Lord Jesus Christ.
Lenny (52:56):
First question In many areas of Scripture we see it
being said hold fast or holdtight in order to sustain to the
end.
How can he speak as if it'salready secure in this passage?
Melissa (53:07):
Because it is.
They're told that it is.
Lenny (53:10):
There again, you have that idea where you're holding
to what saved you Right?
You're mentally keeping that in.
Is there again?
You have that idea where you'reholding to what saved you.
Right, You're mentally keepingthat in mind, You're holding
fast to that till the end.
But when you believe you arealready in God's hands.
But when we start holding onloosely, we get distracted.
But we're always in his hands.
He doesn't let go.
Melissa (53:30):
He's holding on to us we talked about how paul says
grace and peace to you so muchbecause he wants us to remember,
constantly remember yep.
Lenny (53:40):
So why would he give the corinthians so much confidence?
We already kind of talked aboutthat.
They needed it.
They needed extra assurance inthe gospel.
And the last question for uh,for this passage do you think
that under today's standard,most of the people Paul wrote to
in Corinth would have been inand out of fellowship with the
Lord?
Melissa (53:59):
Well, that's sure not what Paul said.
Lenny (54:01):
No, not at all.
But under today's standard oursin breaks our fellowship.
So the Corinthians, if theywere under today's doctrine,
they would have been in and outof fellowship with God.
Today's doctrines would say tothe Corinthians your prayers
aren't being heard, you are asinner.
You need to get right with God.
Why did Paul not say that tothem?
Melissa (54:22):
It's just such error.
When you need Christ the most,you're supposed to view yourself
as not worthy to speak with him.
Lenny (54:29):
Yeah.
Melissa (54:30):
That's just complete non-Christian garbage.
Lenny (54:34):
We're going to cut it off here due to time, but verse 9
is where we're going to startnext week the rest of this verse
and we've been leading intothis the whole time so you're
going to want to stick aroundand hear next week's podcast so
we can finish this thing off.
Melissa (54:51):
Awesome.
I've really enjoyed talkingabout getting back to the belief
that we had when we firstbecame a Christian.
Lenny (54:58):
Amen, it's been great talking, melissa, it's been
great studying, and I hope youguys out there are enjoying this
study and we'll see you againnext week.
Melissa (55:06):
See you next week.
announcement (55:08):
Thank you for listening to the Waking Up to
Grace podcast brought to you bythe finished work of our Lord
Jesus Christ.
If you enjoyed today's episode,we would love to hear from you.
You can send encouragement ourway right from our episodes and
transcripts page or reach Lennyprivately from the contact form
at wakinguptogracecom.
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