April 6, 2025 • 37 mins
Continuing last weeks study, we explore the biblical truth about fellowship with God, challenging the common teaching that Christians can be "in and out" of fellowship based on behavior and sin.
• Examining Paul's letters to the Corinthians reveals he affirmed their secure standing with God despite their sinful behavior
• Understanding fellowship with God is based on His faithfulness, not our performance
• The Greek word for "called" in 1 Corinthians 1:9 is the same used in Romans 8:28, showing our secure standing
• Paul never taught Christians to continually ask for forgiveness to maintain fellowship with God
• Knowing fellowship is unbreakable completely transforms our prayer life, allowing complete honesty with God
• Walking by the Spirit means focusing on holy things rather than being preoccupied with sin
• Replacing sinful habits with holy ones comes from a renewed mind fixed on Christ
Share what's on your heart and enjoy free study resources on our Episodes Page at wakinguptograce.com: https://wakinguptograce.com/048-are-you-out-of-fellowship-with-god-romans-1-8-15/
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Episode Transcript
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announcement (00:01):
Hello and welcome to the Waking Up to Grace
podcast, where we celebrate andexplore the finished work of our
Lord Jesus Christ.
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And now here's Lenny.
Lenny (00:22):
Are you out of fellowship with God?
If somebody asked you right now, how does God see you?
What would your answer be?
Do you desire to be truly rightwith God?
Would it be a blessing to knowthat God always hears your
prayers?
Well, this message just mightchange your prayer life forever.
(00:44):
Stay tuned while we dive intothis fellowship issue.
I wanted to let everybody knowthat there's a study guide for
this episode that we're goingthrough.
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answering the questions as we go.
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(01:06):
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If you want to pause it rightnow, go to the review section.
This would be a great time todo that.
So, without further ado, let'sget started.
Melissa (01:45):
In the first chapter of Paul's letter to the Romans, in
verses 9-10, we read For God ismy witness, whom I serve with
my spirit in the gospel of hisSon, that without ceasing, I
mention you always in my prayers.
Lenny (02:02):
And in today's episode we'll continue to look through
the window we have into Paul'sprayer.
In our scripture, in our Romanspassage, we see Paul saying
that he prays for them withoutceasing and is always mentioning
them in his prayers.
We've been exploring what thatmight have looked like as well
as the frame of mind that Paulhad in his prayers.
We left off on a passage inCorinthians last week 1
(02:25):
Corinthians 1, verses 4-9.
Melissa (02:29):
I give thanks to my God , always for you, because of the
grace of God that was given youin Christ Jesus, that in every
way you were enriched in him, inall speech and all knowledge,
even as the testimony aboutChrist was confirmed among you,
so that you are not lacking inany spiritual gift as you wait
(02:52):
for the revealing of our LordJesus Christ, who will sustain
you to the end, guiltless, inthe day of our Lord Jesus Christ
.
Lenny (03:02):
We concluded that Paul spoke to the Corinthians here in
a way of reminding them of whatthey received when they
believed the gospel at salvation.
In other areas Paul prays thatthe churches comprehend the
depths of the love of Christ andthe depths of spiritual
knowledge.
Why would he tell the sinfulCorinthian church that they were
enriched in all speech andknowledge?
(03:24):
Tell the sinful Corinthianchurch that they were enriched
in all speech and knowledge?
I believe it was to bring themback to the knowledge they had
at salvation.
We read in Paul's letters tothe Corinthians of all kinds of
issues, ranging from sin toerrors in belief.
It seems clear to me that hewas encouraging them back into
the love they received fromChrist Yeshua.
In the beginning Many weredrifting away from their
(03:44):
grace-living mindset and goingback to a carnal way of living
and, according to Paul, evengoing beyond what was considered
acceptable in their society.
Many in the church had gone asfar as taking pride in the
sinful behavior that would havemade most people in their
culture cringe.
I find it very interesting inlight of their struggles with
sin, paul opens his lettersreminding them that they're holy
(04:07):
people.
He reminds them of theiridentity in Christ, then reminds
them of the complete knowledgethey received in the gospel of
grace.
If that isn't enough to causetoday's Christians to raise an
eyebrow, he goes even further inverse 9 and destroys the
doctrine of positionalfellowship that so many hold to
today.
Paul did not tell them to getright with God.
(04:29):
He actually does the opposite.
He tells them they are rightwith God and affirms God's
faithfulness to them.
What we are about to witnesshere is something you will
likely never hear your pastorsay about a people indulging in
such deeply sinful behavior.
Verse 9 reads like this God isfaithful, by whom you were
(04:56):
called into fellowship with hisSon, jesus Christ, our Lord.
Okay, this is a loaded passagedue to the understanding we have
today about fellowship with God.
Melissa (05:11):
Before we break this one down, let's go back to the
beginning to be sure we'regetting the context right 1
Corinthians 1, 4-9.
You were enriched in him in allspeech and all knowledge, even
as the testimony about Christwas confirmed among you, so that
you are not lacking in anyspiritual gift as you wait for
(05:33):
the revealing of our Lord JesusChrist, who will sustain you to
the end, guiltless, in the dayof our Lord Jesus Christ.
Lenny (05:43):
Paul is certainly letting these Corinthians know that
they have all things in Christand that he will sustain them,
isn't he?
Melissa (05:50):
Yes.
Lenny (05:51):
Yeah, I mean he's really comforting them with grace here.
Melissa (05:56):
All things.
Lenny (05:57):
Yeah, to the point of being guiltless.
Yeah, let's jump into the nextverse now and see if the context
remains the same.
The verse that we were justreading, verse 9.
Melissa (06:07):
God is faithful, by whom you were called into the
fellowship of his Son JesusChrist, our Lord.
Lenny (06:16):
Does Paul's statement God is faithful follow the theme of
the preceding passages?
Melissa (06:21):
I would say it absolutely does.
Lenny (06:24):
It's all about God's faithfulness, isn't does?
Melissa (06:26):
It is Exactly Because of God's faithfulness they can
be faithful.
Lenny (06:38):
Amen.
Whose faithfulness is greater,yours or God's?
Melissa (06:44):
God's by far.
Lenny (06:45):
But we hear people saying I have great faith.
Whose faith would you ratherhave pulling you along through
your life?
Melissa (06:54):
Yahweh.
Lenny (06:55):
Without his faith, we really don't have much at all,
do we?
Melissa (06:58):
No, but I suppose we can say we're faithful if he's
living in us.
Yes, and we're faithful becausehe's faithful inside of us.
Lenny (07:07):
Our faith matters, but, as Paul wrote to Timothy, when
we're faithless, he remainsfaithful.
So his faithfulness is whatsecures us and keeps us in his
grace.
Melissa (07:20):
And what a gift that is .
Lenny (07:22):
Yeah, so whose faithfulness called the
Corinthians into fellowship withChrist.
Melissa (07:28):
Yahweh's.
Lenny (07:29):
Exactly Yahweh's faithfulness.
It says God is faithful orYahweh is faithful.
By whom you were called intothe fellowship of his son?
Our Lord called you into thefellowship by his faithfulness.
That's how you got intofellowship with Him.
The next question would be doesthis calling require anything
(07:51):
of us?
Is it subject to our behaviorat all?
We were called into thisfellowship with Christ.
Did that have anything to dowith us?
Melissa?
Melissa (08:02):
It did not require anything of us and it is not
subject to our behavior.
Lenny (08:08):
I would agree with that.
Based on this, would it even beremotely possible to be out of
fellowship with God?
According to this passage,written by Paul, Well, let's see
.
Melissa (08:19):
God is faithful.
That doesn't change.
By him, we were called into thefellowship of his son, jesus
Christ.
He calls you, you're coming andyou're staying.
Lenny (08:31):
I would agree.
That seems pretty clear to meand we'll dive in even deeper
just to make sure that that'scorrect and that's not just our
opinion.
We see the same Greek word,kaleo, interpreted as called
here, used by Paul in his letterto the Romans.
You want to read Romans 8,verse 28, melissa.
Melissa (08:52):
And we know that God causes all things to work
together for good, to those wholove God, to those who are
called according to his purpose.
Lenny (09:03):
We discussed this word in episode number 39, if anyone
missed it, we concluded withouta shadow of doubt that those
called by Yahweh in our firstpassages of Romans were saved
Period.
If God calls you to salvation,you receive it and it's yours to
keep.
That's the promise he makes tous.
Melissa (09:23):
Amen.
Lenny (09:24):
So the question is who are those who love god?
In our romans 8 passage here itsays and we know that god
causes all things to worktogether for good to those who
love god.
Who are those who love god?
Those are those he called hischildren yeah, they're
christians, they're believers,they, they're regenerated, the
new creation, anything you wantto call them, they are saved.
Melissa (09:47):
Those who have the Holy Spirit Signed, sealed and
delivered.
Lenny (09:49):
These people are Christians.
Melissa (09:51):
I'm yours.
Lenny (09:53):
So if you're called according to God's purpose, as
this passage states, is yoursalvation now secured.
Melissa (10:01):
Absolutely, because we know, once saved, always saved.
Lenny (10:05):
We know that.
But we also know that God'spurpose is what happens.
If God purposes for somethingto happen, it happens.
Melissa (10:16):
You can bet on that.
Lenny (10:17):
He doesn't make mistakes, he doesn't take gambles.
Melissa (10:20):
And he doesn't break promises.
Lenny (10:22):
So if you're called to God's purpose, you have been
called to salvation.
Now going back to ourCorinthians passage that uses
the same Greek word for called.
Melissa (10:33):
God is faithful, by whom you were called into the
fellowship of his son JesusChrist, our Lord.
Lenny (10:41):
So, if we compare this calling to the context Paul used
in Romans 8, is our fellowshipwith God secured?
It is, it has to be.
What is the basis that allowsus to rely on this?
According to the passage, god'scalling, god's calling and
God's faithfulness.
So are you going to questionGod's faithfulness?
Melissa (11:04):
Not this girl, if it's based on God's faithfulness, not
this girl.
Lenny (11:06):
If it's based on God's faithfulness, should we be
doubting it?
Melissa (11:09):
No.
Lenny (11:10):
Paul then continues in his letter to the Corinthians 1
Corinthians 1.10.
(11:31):
Can we conclude that in thisverse, Paul changes the subject
from what he was talking aboutbefore.
I see a shift of subject.
He's not talking about the samething anymore.
They actually change theheading in our Bibles too, so I
think they recognize thataccurately.
But what is the subject he'stalking on now?
He was talking about you werecalled into the fellowship, you
(11:53):
were called into grace, youridentity is in Christ.
You have all these things inChrist.
What's he talking about now?
I see Paul here talking abouttheir fellowship together,
person to person, theirfellowship as believers.
He says I need you to agree, sothere's no divisions among you,
(12:13):
that you be united in the samemind and the same judgment.
He's talking about theirfellowship as believers.
To believers.
He shifted from theirfellowship with Christ and now
he's talking about how they'reacting towards each other as
believers.
He shifted from theirfellowship with Christ and now
he's talking about how they'reacting towards each other as
believers.
And then the letter goes on.
Case in point he's shifting thefocus.
Melissa (12:34):
I see, I see what you're saying there.
Lenny (12:36):
Well, the only reason I bring that up is because
somebody might say look, he'stalking about fellowship.
He means fellowship in thatlast passage too.
But they're two differentfellowships.
Melissa (12:47):
I think he's saying that all the brothers should be
depending on the Lord andlooking to him.
Lenny (12:53):
Yeah, being of the same mind.
He's telling them what theyshould be thinking in their
minds first, and then he'ssaying you guys should be
agreeing on this stuff so thatyou can have better fellowship
with one another.
We can mess up fellowship witheach other, but we can't mess up
our fellowship with God.
He's always there.
Melissa (13:14):
Right.
Lenny (13:14):
But we can make other people upset with us and we can
cause problems in the church andwe can have problems forgiving
people even, but God doesn'thave that problem.
Melissa (13:24):
No, and I think if we're all looking to him praying
, pending on him, then there'sgoing to be less divisions
instead of trying to go rogue.
Lenny (13:32):
Precisely.
So can we conclude withcertainty that Paul refers to an
unbreakable fellowship with Godand that we can never be out of
fellowship with Yahweh, despitenearly every Christian
denomination on earthproclaiming such things?
Melissa (13:48):
Absolutely.
Lenny (13:49):
There is no such thing as being out of fellowship for the
Christian, For thenon-Christian.
You're always out of fellowship.
You've never been in it.
But once you enter into Christ,you are in fellowship.
Melissa (14:02):
You're in, like Flynn, with him, yeah, but when it
comes to your Christian brothers, we so often take our focus off
of the Lord and start thinkingfor ourselves.
Lenny (14:11):
Right.
Melissa (14:12):
And lo and behold, you have the denominations that we
talked about were some 400, some1,000 different Christian
denominations.
That's a bunch of Christiansgoing rogue.
Lenny (14:24):
Yeah, so I think we should go just a bit deeper.
Let's go back to the verybeginning of Paul's letter to
the Corinthians to be sure ofwhat we're seeing here.
We've been studying verses fourthrough nine.
Let's shift back to the firsttwo verses, shall we?
Melissa (14:39):
We shall.
Lenny (14:41):
Let's see how he started.
Melissa (14:43):
Paul, called as an apostle of Jesus Christ, by the
will of God, and Sosthenes, ourbrother, to the church of God
which is at Corinth, to thosewho have been sanctified in
Christ Jesus, saints, by callingwith all who, in every place,
call on the name of our Lord.
Lenny (15:02):
Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours, According to Paul, if
you were called to be a saint,have you been sanctified?
Melissa (15:13):
You have, you've been set apart.
Lenny (15:15):
He was called as an apostle.
Wasn't he an apostle?
He sure was.
And then he calls them saintsby calling yes, and they've been
sanctified by that calling.
This is the same letter that weare pulling verse 9 from.
This is the beginning.
These are verses 1 and 2.
We are reading verse 9.
He's using the word called here, just like he did later in the
(15:40):
letter.
In this context is sanctifiedmeaning set apart for salvation.
Keep in mind what we hear fromPaul a few verses later Our Lord
Jesus Christ, who will sustainyou to the end, guiltless, in
the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Melissa (15:55):
So it seems this is set apart for salvation.
Lenny (15:58):
Yes, so these people who were called to be saints were
set apart for salvation, weren'tthey?
Melissa (16:05):
They were.
Lenny (16:06):
This wasn't something they could be in and out of, was
it?
No, they couldn't be out ofsaintness, they couldn't be out
of sanctification anymore.
They've been set apart.
Melissa (16:17):
According to the way Yahweh works and his promises.
Yes, they're good to go.
Lenny (16:22):
Okay.
So the next question is ifwe're called by God's
faithfulness into fellowshipwith him and we're also called
into salvation by him and setapart by him, I would say
absolutely.
I don't know how much more thesame they could be Agreed,
(16:44):
especially in regards to whereyou are at all the time.
You're always in salvation,you're always in salvation,
you're always in fellowship.
Can we also conclude that thesame Greek word used by Paul for
fellowship would mean the samething if John used it in 1 John?
My answer would be that itwould absolutely mean the same
thing.
(17:04):
It's the same word.
If it didn't mean the same thingwhen John said it in his
epistle, how much sense wouldthat make?
If we read John's epistle andhe's talking about fellowship
with God, specific to God, itwould mean the same thing.
You can't be out of thatfellowship.
And would this change the waywe understand 1 John completely?
(17:25):
Now, this question is going tobe specific to people that have
read 1 John.
If you've never heard of 1 John1.9, if you've never been under
a teaching that teaches youthat1 John 1.9 teaches you that
you have to be asking forforgiveness constantly, this
self-cleansing cycle that peoplego through, all pulled from
that passage, but they usefellowship to try to teach you
(17:49):
that you can be in and out.
They use that same word,fellowship.
So my point here is that ifPaul is using it in a certain
context, why would it be anydifferent when John's talking
about fellowship with God?
Are they talking about twodifferent fellowships?
Is fellowship with Goddifferent from Paul to John, or
is it the same?
Melissa (18:07):
I would say it's the same.
Lenny (18:08):
It would have to be the same.
And John certainly understoodfellowship.
He never taught that you couldbe in and out of it in his
epistle.
That's just a man-made error.
I've done several episodes on 1John and have another in the
works, so we're not going tocover that here.
But we have to realize that ourfellowship with God is
unbreakable in order to fullygrasp His love.
(18:29):
Without unbreakable fellowship,your prayer life will be based
on works.
Without unbreakable fellowship,your sin has not fully been
forgiven.
Without unbreakable fellowship,sin will cause God to not
listen to your prayer requests.
Do you understand how holy Godis If your prayer life depended
(18:51):
on behaving in line with theSermon on the Mount?
How many of your prayers is Godhearing?
If you think he's answeringyour prayers based on your
behavior, I think you have amisunderstanding about his
holiness.
Do you really think missing asin here and there is going to
fly with Yahweh?
(19:11):
If you're asking forforgiveness is necessary to
staying right with him?
Melissa (19:15):
Absolutely not.
He's a perfect God, yeah.
Lenny (19:18):
I mean, if he required you to ask for forgiveness for
your sins, if that was one ofhis commands, you better be
doing it perfectly, becausethat's the way he rolls.
Melissa (19:27):
That's why you have to do that blanket statement we
talk about.
Lenny (19:32):
And do you think that would be pleasing to God that
you used a blanket statementjust to get through, so that you
could quickly pray to him andbe in fellowship again?
Melissa (19:40):
No.
Lenny (19:40):
Please, God, just forgive me of everything I did today.
That doesn't sound like a lotof effort when you compare that
to what they were doing underthe law for forgiveness of sins.
Melissa (19:49):
Right.
Lenny (19:51):
We need to really consider these things if you're
going to take on a religiouspractice that's not found
anywhere in Scripture.
Paul didn't teach us toself-cleanse in this way,
because it's not a holy practice.
It does no honor to God to askfor something that was fulfilled
by His grace.
Realizing our sin and askingGod for more forgiveness are not
the same thing as most suppose.
(20:12):
Being sorry or ashamed of sinand not asking for forgiveness
are two different things.
We don't need to include thedesire for more forgiveness.
It's an unholy practice thatPaul never taught.
Why?
Because it cast doubt on thevery thing that we needed the
most Reconciliation to Yahweh.
Melissa (20:36):
Exactly If you desire more forgiveness.
If you're asking for moreforgiveness, then you are
displaying uncertainty that youever had it.
Lenny (20:46):
Yes, you're actually displaying unbelief with your
mouth.
Melissa (20:49):
Yes, and your mind unbelief with your mouth yes,
and your mind.
Lenny (20:52):
We shouldn't do that.
This changes the way we pray.
It changes how we see God, itchanges how we see ourselves
before God, it changes how wesee others in Christ, and it
constantly and repetitivelyreduces our confidence before
our loving Father when we'reasking for more forgiveness.
Melissa (21:10):
It changes, grace.
Lenny (21:12):
It's not grace thinking, it's not grace living.
Is that what we want?
Is that what Paul wanted forhis church?
Is that what God wants for you?
Melissa (21:21):
Absolutely not.
That's why he forgave us past,present and future.
Lenny (21:25):
By definition and in context, if you're called to
salvation, you receive salvationand it's yours, you don't lose
it.
The truth about your fellowshipwith God is the same.
There's no difference.
The separation of fellowshipwith God and salvation from God
is a religious view, not aChristian view.
So, based on that question one,can we be in and out of
(21:47):
fellowship with God?
Based on behavior, no, wecannot.
According to Scripture?
No, there's nothing inScripture that teaches such a
mindset or a practice.
Question two If we know we arealways in fellowship, can we
pray more confidently and morehonestly?
I can say confidently andhonestly from experience that,
(22:13):
yes, absolutely.
Melissa (22:13):
We can be ourselves, can't we?
Lenny (22:14):
We certainly can.
We can completely be ourselves.
We can be honest aboutourselves.
We don't have to try to hidesomething from God which is like
the silliest thing in the world.
You know, you think you'regoing to kind of bend the rules
and slip the radar by onlysinning this way and not that
way.
Just be honest with God.
You can be honest with him.
You're not going to getpunished.
Melissa (22:37):
And it's just so important to be able to come to
him in times of trouble, intimes when you did act a certain
way you're not proud of and youwant to talk to him about it.
You don't have to feel ashamed,you can come right to him.
I just think that's thecraziest thing.
In the times when we need himthe most, we're supposed to
believe that he doesn't want tohear from us.
He's turned his face from usand we're not friends.
Lenny (22:59):
Yeah, exactly.
And then if we think we'redoing everything right and we're
not sinning, and we're doingreally well, why do we even need
him in the first place?
Well, that's the best time tobe thanking him for all the
grace he's given you Right?
Not thanking yourself andpuffing up your chest.
Melissa (23:19):
You know that really reminds me of a family member
situation, right, because, let'ssay, our earthly father.
They're always going to be ourearthly father.
There's nothing that they coulddo to ever not be our earthly
father.
But they can disown you.
They can not talk to you forthe rest of your life if they
don't like how you're behaving.
You can have zero relationshipwith them here on this earth.
Yet you're always, in forever,their child.
(23:40):
Are we really supposed tobelieve that the god of our
salvation is that's how he isturning his back to us yeah,
saying I'm not talking to youyou have been too bad.
Lenny (23:52):
You have drawn the line.
I'm not looking at you anymore.
Well, under the old covenantmaybe that was true, but what
good is the gospel of grace ifit didn't change our standing
with god like they said it would, like the apostles declared
that it did, like Christdeclared that it would.
What good is the gospel ifwe're not right with God?
So the next question do webecome more thankful when we
(24:16):
know that our heavenly fatherfully accepts us?
Melissa (24:20):
Absolutely.
Lenny (24:21):
Does that make you more thankful when you know that the
sacrifice of Christ Yeshuacovered every sin you could ever
commit and made you right withGod, and that you can't get
yourself out of that rightnesswith God?
Melissa (24:35):
Oh, that's peace that surpasses all understanding.
That's ultimate confidence.
Yeah.
Lenny (24:42):
I believe it's that understanding that changes our
behavior and that truly changesthe heart of our being, changes
the way we think and behave.
It's when we know our freedomand we choose to love Christ in
return, not because we're goingto get punished or get some
special reward.
(25:02):
We already recognize the rewardthat we have and we live
thankful in that.
Melissa (25:07):
Yes.
Lenny (25:08):
Rather than looking to achieve by our works.
That's not the way God laid itout.
That's not what I see inScripture.
Melissa (25:15):
And that doesn't sound like eternal rest in him.
Lenny (25:19):
No.
Melissa (25:19):
He is our Sabbath.
Lenny (25:21):
So the word repent is a word that tends to get us
thinking in the way of guilt andneeding more forgiveness, isn't
it?
When we see its appearance inScripture, we're like whoa
repent, but the definition ofrepent in context is a change of
mind.
So, based on that, if we seerepent as meaning to turn away
(25:43):
from, what would we be turningaway from?
Melissa (25:47):
well, in scripture, the way of believing in the old
testament, um the jews would bebeing told to turn away, like
john the baptist would have beentelling them to turn away from
their old way of thinking yeahand turn to christ as the savior
.
Lenny (26:01):
Yeah, so turn away from the basically the self-seeking
side of humanity that we're bornwith thinking that way.
Turn away from that thinking Onstudying Paul's prayers in our
last episode, number 47, didPaul give us something to focus
on instead?
Melissa (26:21):
Yes, the gospel.
Lenny (26:22):
Yeah, the gospel of grace and Christ.
You turn away from your sinfulmindset and you turn towards
Christ.
It's not a matter of stopsinning, it's a matter of change
your thinking, because if yourthinking changes, the behavior
follows.
Melissa (26:43):
Yes.
Lenny (26:44):
If you don't change your thinking.
What good is a change ofbehavior?
That would be something thatwould happen from punishment
Somebody just physically dragsyou away from what you're doing
and throws you in prison for alittle while.
When you come out, did youchange your thinking or did they
just stop you from behavingpoorly?
Melissa (27:01):
The latter.
Lenny (27:02):
You paid a penalty.
God teaches discipline bytraining us for the future.
He doesn't need to punish andhave consequences in order to
get results.
Melissa (27:13):
Paul tells them to take their mind off the law, which
focused on their sin andbehavior and their
self-cleansing efforts, andfocus on what Christ did and
rest in him.
Lenny (27:24):
Exactly so.
Could this concept be comparedwith the analogy Paul uses of
walking by the Spirit versuswalking by the flesh?
Galatians 5.16, we read.
Melissa (27:35):
But I say walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify
the desires of the flesh.
Lenny (27:42):
That sounds like a way of thinking, doesn't it?
Melissa (27:45):
Walk by what you know is true of Yeshua.
Lenny (27:49):
Yeah, so walk by your knowledge, walk by your
understanding of grace.
Melissa (27:53):
And if you're doing that, then you are resting in
him, you are depending on him,you are praying.
Lenny (27:59):
So does Paul say that you'll stop sinning if you walk
by the Spirit?
Does he say that you're justgoing to stop sinning?
You're going to end up turningaway from all sin?
He doesn't say that, but itsure sounds like you're going to
do it a lot less yeah, you'renot going to gratify the desires
of the flesh, you're not goingto put fuel on the fire right
these fires are going toprobably get extinguished pretty
(28:20):
quickly compared to the waythey did before yeah, because
you're not fueling the fire.
It's kind of like that big redbutton.
If sin is off limits and youmust stop, don't press that red
button.
What do you want to do?
But if somebody showed you abigger red button that had
better benefits, what might youdo?
(28:41):
Focus on that bigger red button, that little red button is
probably not that significant.
You're probably not going topush that as often yes because
you have something better tofocus on.
What does paul say will happenif we walk by the spirit?
Well, we already talked aboutthat.
We're not going to gratify thedesires of the flesh, it's not
going to be as interesting.
(29:01):
We are absolutely not going tobe gratified by it.
I would say, when we'regratifying the desires of the
flesh, we're gratified by them.
But if you're focused on Christand you're focused on holy
things, unholy things are justnot as fun.
Melissa (29:16):
Right, they're not going to suit you anymore.
Like we've talked about, we'rea new creation now.
Lenny (29:20):
Yeah.
Melissa (29:21):
We have new desires.
We can choose to turn our backon that truth and forget about
it for a moment and try to goback to the flesh.
Lenny (29:29):
But it's going to feel awkward, but we want to grow in
holiness, so we walk by theSpirit.
Melissa (29:34):
Yes, and I think that also has to do with who we're
spending time with, who we'retalking to, who we're hanging
out with, because if you're justconstantly hanging out with
people that are telling you thatyou need to be asking for
forgiveness, for example, andyou need to be focusing on your
sin, well then you're notwalking by the Spirit, you're
being distracted.
Lenny (29:53):
Would you say that if we focus on holy spiritual things,
that spiritual things willhappen in our lives?
Melissa (29:59):
Yes, we know that to be true.
Lenny (30:01):
I think that's the whole theme of Paul's writings, what
he's trying to tell them when hesays walk by the Spirit.
He's saying focus on holythings.
In episode 47, we just saw thatover and over he's not saying
get cleansed from your sin, getright with God.
He's saying focus on holythings, Do good things, Think of
ways to please God right.
Melissa (30:22):
Right.
Lenny (30:23):
So far in our studies?
Do you think that Paul wantedour primary focus to be on sin
or unholiness?
Melissa (30:29):
I never see him telling people to put their focus on
sin no, put it away.
Lenny (30:33):
Peter said put it away and say meditate on it.
Quite the opposite like get itout of your way and focus on
holy things.
The more you think about it,the worse it gets it.
It's like a cancer.
Melissa (30:43):
Yeah, by contrast.
Actually, Paul is constantlywanting the believers to
increase in the knowledge ofChrist, increase in what's true
of him.
Lenny (30:55):
So do you think it's possible to replace a sinful
habit with a holy habit?
Melissa (30:59):
Absolutely, it's possible.
Lenny (31:01):
I guess in another way you could say instead of just
focusing on stopping a sin,shouldn't we focus on replacing
that behavior with somethingbetter?
Melissa (31:10):
I would say absolutely.
Lenny (31:12):
Amen.
Would you say that when we lookto Yahweh for guidance, that
he'll provide what we need,whether through the body of
believers or through a change ofmind?
Melissa (31:22):
Yes, yes, he does.
Lenny (31:24):
So I think the whole point that Paul's trying to
teach people here is that theSpirit of God will guide us.
If we're seeking the Spirit'sguidance, it's not about stop
doing this, stop doing that.
It's about seeking what is holy.
I don't think it's as hard todo as we think.
Pray about it.
We seek it from the Spiritbecause we know the Spirit lives
(31:46):
within.
Paul said don't present yourbody to sin.
Present yourself to God asthose alive from the dead, as
instruments of righteousness.
And then he says be transformedby the renewal of your mind.
I mean just that statementalone be transformed by the
renewal of your mind.
He's saying that you had a mindrenewal and it's continuing.
(32:07):
And he's saying be transformedby that.
Doesn't that sound a lot likewalking by the spirit?
Yes, be transformed by themessage of grace.
And that's what we were readingin that first part of
Corinthians.
He's telling them about whothey are in Christ, what they
have in Christ.
Be transformed by that, he saysin another place.
(32:29):
He says it in different ways,but it's all the same thing.
What we believe when we receivethe gospel of Christ, we don't
automatically live by thatbelief.
As Paul said hold fast to whatyou've believed.
That's not a call to be afraidof losing your salvation.
(32:50):
That's a call to holy living, aholy living that is
Christ-centered.
It's not all about yourbehavior.
It's about your focus.
Melissa (32:57):
Yes, it's about focus.
Lenny (33:00):
We see that all through Scripture, these comparisons
Walking by the Spirit, walkingby the flesh Hold fast till the
end.
These are all things that aredescribing holy living based on
your belief.
Melissa (33:12):
So it's all about where we put our mind.
It seems, a lot of times whenthe word behavior comes up, you
could replace it with focus.
Lenny (33:20):
Yeah, because that's the only thing that produces it.
Whenever Paul's speaking onbehavior, he was right before
that and right after thattelling them about grace and
what their focus should be.
The whole premise of theletters was about holy living,
and holy living does not comefrom ourselves.
The Spirit is within us, but wecan ignore that and we're
(33:40):
blessed if God wakes us up tothe fact that we're ignoring it.
We're blessed if he causes someevent to happen that shakes our
paradigm, wakes us up if we'rein a slumber.
In that way, he'll do thatbecause the Spirit's in us.
He can do that.
Right, he also lets us beignorant.
Let's try to do like Peter saidmake every effort, make every
(34:00):
effort to focus, make everyeffort to pray for these things.
Melissa (34:05):
I think it would be true to say make every effort to
rely on him for everything.
Exactly, we do need to rely onhim for everything, but we need
to be conscious of that, put ourfocus there, not just take our
focus off of him and, in thebackground, rely on him because
we're going to stumble around.
So really, I see it as thisthat we can, in a sense, decide
(34:29):
that we don't want to be friendswith God.
Lenny (34:32):
We can be total jerks.
Melissa (34:33):
Right, we can turn our backs and we can ignore him for
days, weeks, years, but everytime we bring our focus back
around, he's right there.
He never left, he never stoppeda friendship, he never stopped
loving.
That makes me think of theprodigal son, even though I know
that's jew and gentile.
Lenny (34:53):
Well, it still still applies to god's love and mercy.
Melissa (34:56):
Yeah, it's like we never left, so we can act that
way, but god never acts that way.
Lenny (35:03):
That's's really important and that makes you humbled to
realize.
When somebody wrongs you,especially another Christian,
you get upset at anotherChristian.
You think how irritating, whyare they saying that or why are
they thinking that or why dothey believe that?
And then you just think aboutyourself for a minute and how
God's had to put up with youyour whole life.
(35:23):
You hear Christ saying love, asI have loved you.
How can I stay mad?
There's certainly not a singleperson out there that God hasn't
had to be patient withincluding the Apostle Paul.
Melissa (35:36):
Yes, yes.
Lenny (35:37):
We at least know, prior to his conversion, that God was
very patient with him.
He could have just wiped himout.
Melissa (35:45):
Absolutely.
What a comforting message torealize that God's focus never
shifts.
God's friendship never ends,just like his salvation is never
going to be taken away.
It's us that need to focus.
We just need to realize we needto keep our focus on him, and
then this life can actually be ablessing that's what we got for
(36:07):
this week.
Lenny (36:08):
We'll see you guys again next week for our next episode.
In the meantime, don't forgetto leave us a review on your
favorite podcasting platform anddon't forget to check out these
study guides.
At waking up to gracecom, youcan click on the episode link in
the description section on yourpodcast platform to check out
(36:30):
those study guides, or just goto waking up gracecom to our
podcast episodes page and checkthem all out.
announcement (36:36):
See you guys next time have a great day out there
thank you for listening to thewaking up to grace podcast
brought to you by the finishedwork of our Lord Jesus Christ.
If you enjoyed today's episode,we would love to hear from you.
You can send encouragement ourway right from our episodes and
transcripts page or reach Lennyprivately from the contact form
(36:58):
at wakinguptogracecom.
Hello and welcome to the Waking Up to Grace
podcast, where we celebrate andexplore the finished work of our
Lord Jesus Christ.
Tune in to the Waking Up toGrace podcast on every major
platform.
You can also listen to ourepisodes and read our full
transcripts atwakinguptogracecom.
And now here's Lenny.
Lenny (00:22):
Are you out of fellowship with God?
If somebody asked you right now, how does God see you?
What would your answer be?
Do you desire to be truly rightwith God?
Would it be a blessing to knowthat God always hears your
prayers?
Well, this message just mightchange your prayer life forever.
(00:44):
Stay tuned while we dive intothis fellowship issue.
I wanted to let everybody knowthat there's a study guide for
this episode that we're goingthrough.
Melissa and I are going to befollowing this study guide and
answering the questions as we go.
This is designed to be a weeklystudy.
If you guys wanted to use it asthat, you could use it for
yourselves in studies personalstudies, group studies.
(01:06):
However you'd like to use it asthat, you could use it for
yourselves in studies, personalstudies, group studies.
However you'd like to use it,it's free and it's all.
At wakinguptogracecom, if yougo into the episode's
description, you'll find a linkto the study guide right there.
If you've been a listener for alittle while and you like what
you hear, please leave us areview.
You can consider it your way ofspreading the gospel, because
those reviews are going to helpus get found by others in the
(01:29):
algorithms.
So you're going to help usreach more people by doing that,
so we really appreciate youleaving us a good review if you
like what you're hearing.
If you want to pause it rightnow, go to the review section.
This would be a great time todo that.
So, without further ado, let'sget started.
Melissa (01:45):
In the first chapter of Paul's letter to the Romans, in
verses 9-10, we read For God ismy witness, whom I serve with
my spirit in the gospel of hisSon, that without ceasing, I
mention you always in my prayers.
Lenny (02:02):
And in today's episode we'll continue to look through
the window we have into Paul'sprayer.
In our scripture, in our Romanspassage, we see Paul saying
that he prays for them withoutceasing and is always mentioning
them in his prayers.
We've been exploring what thatmight have looked like as well
as the frame of mind that Paulhad in his prayers.
We left off on a passage inCorinthians last week 1
(02:25):
Corinthians 1, verses 4-9.
Melissa (02:29):
I give thanks to my God , always for you, because of the
grace of God that was given youin Christ Jesus, that in every
way you were enriched in him, inall speech and all knowledge,
even as the testimony aboutChrist was confirmed among you,
so that you are not lacking inany spiritual gift as you wait
(02:52):
for the revealing of our LordJesus Christ, who will sustain
you to the end, guiltless, inthe day of our Lord Jesus Christ
.
Lenny (03:02):
We concluded that Paul spoke to the Corinthians here in
a way of reminding them of whatthey received when they
believed the gospel at salvation.
In other areas Paul prays thatthe churches comprehend the
depths of the love of Christ andthe depths of spiritual
knowledge.
Why would he tell the sinfulCorinthian church that they were
enriched in all speech andknowledge?
(03:24):
Tell the sinful Corinthianchurch that they were enriched
in all speech and knowledge?
I believe it was to bring themback to the knowledge they had
at salvation.
We read in Paul's letters tothe Corinthians of all kinds of
issues, ranging from sin toerrors in belief.
It seems clear to me that hewas encouraging them back into
the love they received fromChrist Yeshua.
In the beginning Many weredrifting away from their
(03:44):
grace-living mindset and goingback to a carnal way of living
and, according to Paul, evengoing beyond what was considered
acceptable in their society.
Many in the church had gone asfar as taking pride in the
sinful behavior that would havemade most people in their
culture cringe.
I find it very interesting inlight of their struggles with
sin, paul opens his lettersreminding them that they're holy
(04:07):
people.
He reminds them of theiridentity in Christ, then reminds
them of the complete knowledgethey received in the gospel of
grace.
If that isn't enough to causetoday's Christians to raise an
eyebrow, he goes even further inverse 9 and destroys the
doctrine of positionalfellowship that so many hold to
today.
Paul did not tell them to getright with God.
(04:29):
He actually does the opposite.
He tells them they are rightwith God and affirms God's
faithfulness to them.
What we are about to witnesshere is something you will
likely never hear your pastorsay about a people indulging in
such deeply sinful behavior.
Verse 9 reads like this God isfaithful, by whom you were
(04:56):
called into fellowship with hisSon, jesus Christ, our Lord.
Okay, this is a loaded passagedue to the understanding we have
today about fellowship with God.
Melissa (05:11):
Before we break this one down, let's go back to the
beginning to be sure we'regetting the context right 1
Corinthians 1, 4-9.
You were enriched in him in allspeech and all knowledge, even
as the testimony about Christwas confirmed among you, so that
you are not lacking in anyspiritual gift as you wait for
(05:33):
the revealing of our Lord JesusChrist, who will sustain you to
the end, guiltless, in the dayof our Lord Jesus Christ.
Lenny (05:43):
Paul is certainly letting these Corinthians know that
they have all things in Christand that he will sustain them,
isn't he?
Melissa (05:50):
Yes.
Lenny (05:51):
Yeah, I mean he's really comforting them with grace here.
Melissa (05:56):
All things.
Lenny (05:57):
Yeah, to the point of being guiltless.
Yeah, let's jump into the nextverse now and see if the context
remains the same.
The verse that we were justreading, verse 9.
Melissa (06:07):
God is faithful, by whom you were called into the
fellowship of his Son JesusChrist, our Lord.
Lenny (06:16):
Does Paul's statement God is faithful follow the theme of
the preceding passages?
Melissa (06:21):
I would say it absolutely does.
Lenny (06:24):
It's all about God's faithfulness, isn't does?
Melissa (06:26):
It is Exactly Because of God's faithfulness they can
be faithful.
Lenny (06:38):
Amen.
Whose faithfulness is greater,yours or God's?
Melissa (06:44):
God's by far.
Lenny (06:45):
But we hear people saying I have great faith.
Whose faith would you ratherhave pulling you along through
your life?
Melissa (06:54):
Yahweh.
Lenny (06:55):
Without his faith, we really don't have much at all,
do we?
Melissa (06:58):
No, but I suppose we can say we're faithful if he's
living in us.
Yes, and we're faithful becausehe's faithful inside of us.
Lenny (07:07):
Our faith matters, but, as Paul wrote to Timothy, when
we're faithless, he remainsfaithful.
So his faithfulness is whatsecures us and keeps us in his
grace.
Melissa (07:20):
And what a gift that is .
Lenny (07:22):
Yeah, so whose faithfulness called the
Corinthians into fellowship withChrist.
Melissa (07:28):
Yahweh's.
Lenny (07:29):
Exactly Yahweh's faithfulness.
It says God is faithful orYahweh is faithful.
By whom you were called intothe fellowship of his son?
Our Lord called you into thefellowship by his faithfulness.
That's how you got intofellowship with Him.
The next question would be doesthis calling require anything
(07:51):
of us?
Is it subject to our behaviorat all?
We were called into thisfellowship with Christ.
Did that have anything to dowith us?
Melissa?
Melissa (08:02):
It did not require anything of us and it is not
subject to our behavior.
Lenny (08:08):
I would agree with that.
Based on this, would it even beremotely possible to be out of
fellowship with God?
According to this passage,written by Paul, Well, let's see
.
Melissa (08:19):
God is faithful.
That doesn't change.
By him, we were called into thefellowship of his son, jesus
Christ.
He calls you, you're coming andyou're staying.
Lenny (08:31):
I would agree.
That seems pretty clear to meand we'll dive in even deeper
just to make sure that that'scorrect and that's not just our
opinion.
We see the same Greek word,kaleo, interpreted as called
here, used by Paul in his letterto the Romans.
You want to read Romans 8,verse 28, melissa.
Melissa (08:52):
And we know that God causes all things to work
together for good, to those wholove God, to those who are
called according to his purpose.
Lenny (09:03):
We discussed this word in episode number 39, if anyone
missed it, we concluded withouta shadow of doubt that those
called by Yahweh in our firstpassages of Romans were saved
Period.
If God calls you to salvation,you receive it and it's yours to
keep.
That's the promise he makes tous.
Melissa (09:23):
Amen.
Lenny (09:24):
So the question is who are those who love god?
In our romans 8 passage here itsays and we know that god
causes all things to worktogether for good to those who
love god.
Who are those who love god?
Those are those he called hischildren yeah, they're
christians, they're believers,they, they're regenerated, the
new creation, anything you wantto call them, they are saved.
Melissa (09:47):
Those who have the Holy Spirit Signed, sealed and
delivered.
Lenny (09:49):
These people are Christians.
Melissa (09:51):
I'm yours.
Lenny (09:53):
So if you're called according to God's purpose, as
this passage states, is yoursalvation now secured.
Melissa (10:01):
Absolutely, because we know, once saved, always saved.
Lenny (10:05):
We know that.
But we also know that God'spurpose is what happens.
If God purposes for somethingto happen, it happens.
Melissa (10:16):
You can bet on that.
Lenny (10:17):
He doesn't make mistakes, he doesn't take gambles.
Melissa (10:20):
And he doesn't break promises.
Lenny (10:22):
So if you're called to God's purpose, you have been
called to salvation.
Now going back to ourCorinthians passage that uses
the same Greek word for called.
Melissa (10:33):
God is faithful, by whom you were called into the
fellowship of his son JesusChrist, our Lord.
Lenny (10:41):
So, if we compare this calling to the context Paul used
in Romans 8, is our fellowshipwith God secured?
It is, it has to be.
What is the basis that allowsus to rely on this?
According to the passage, god'scalling, god's calling and
God's faithfulness.
So are you going to questionGod's faithfulness?
Melissa (11:04):
Not this girl, if it's based on God's faithfulness, not
this girl.
Lenny (11:06):
If it's based on God's faithfulness, should we be
doubting it?
Melissa (11:09):
No.
Lenny (11:10):
Paul then continues in his letter to the Corinthians 1
Corinthians 1.10.
(11:31):
Can we conclude that in thisverse, Paul changes the subject
from what he was talking aboutbefore.
I see a shift of subject.
He's not talking about the samething anymore.
They actually change theheading in our Bibles too, so I
think they recognize thataccurately.
But what is the subject he'stalking on now?
He was talking about you werecalled into the fellowship, you
(11:53):
were called into grace, youridentity is in Christ.
You have all these things inChrist.
What's he talking about now?
I see Paul here talking abouttheir fellowship together,
person to person, theirfellowship as believers.
He says I need you to agree, sothere's no divisions among you,
(12:13):
that you be united in the samemind and the same judgment.
He's talking about theirfellowship as believers.
To believers.
He shifted from theirfellowship with Christ and now
he's talking about how they'reacting towards each other as
believers.
He shifted from theirfellowship with Christ and now
he's talking about how they'reacting towards each other as
believers.
And then the letter goes on.
Case in point he's shifting thefocus.
Melissa (12:34):
I see, I see what you're saying there.
Lenny (12:36):
Well, the only reason I bring that up is because
somebody might say look, he'stalking about fellowship.
He means fellowship in thatlast passage too.
But they're two differentfellowships.
Melissa (12:47):
I think he's saying that all the brothers should be
depending on the Lord andlooking to him.
Lenny (12:53):
Yeah, being of the same mind.
He's telling them what theyshould be thinking in their
minds first, and then he'ssaying you guys should be
agreeing on this stuff so thatyou can have better fellowship
with one another.
We can mess up fellowship witheach other, but we can't mess up
our fellowship with God.
He's always there.
Melissa (13:14):
Right.
Lenny (13:14):
But we can make other people upset with us and we can
cause problems in the church andwe can have problems forgiving
people even, but God doesn'thave that problem.
Melissa (13:24):
No, and I think if we're all looking to him praying
, pending on him, then there'sgoing to be less divisions
instead of trying to go rogue.
Lenny (13:32):
Precisely.
So can we conclude withcertainty that Paul refers to an
unbreakable fellowship with Godand that we can never be out of
fellowship with Yahweh, despitenearly every Christian
denomination on earthproclaiming such things?
Melissa (13:48):
Absolutely.
Lenny (13:49):
There is no such thing as being out of fellowship for the
Christian, For thenon-Christian.
You're always out of fellowship.
You've never been in it.
But once you enter into Christ,you are in fellowship.
Melissa (14:02):
You're in, like Flynn, with him, yeah, but when it
comes to your Christian brothers, we so often take our focus off
of the Lord and start thinkingfor ourselves.
Lenny (14:11):
Right.
Melissa (14:12):
And lo and behold, you have the denominations that we
talked about were some 400, some1,000 different Christian
denominations.
That's a bunch of Christiansgoing rogue.
Lenny (14:24):
Yeah, so I think we should go just a bit deeper.
Let's go back to the verybeginning of Paul's letter to
the Corinthians to be sure ofwhat we're seeing here.
We've been studying verses fourthrough nine.
Let's shift back to the firsttwo verses, shall we?
Melissa (14:39):
We shall.
Lenny (14:41):
Let's see how he started.
Melissa (14:43):
Paul, called as an apostle of Jesus Christ, by the
will of God, and Sosthenes, ourbrother, to the church of God
which is at Corinth, to thosewho have been sanctified in
Christ Jesus, saints, by callingwith all who, in every place,
call on the name of our Lord.
Lenny (15:02):
Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours, According to Paul, if
you were called to be a saint,have you been sanctified?
Melissa (15:13):
You have, you've been set apart.
Lenny (15:15):
He was called as an apostle.
Wasn't he an apostle?
He sure was.
And then he calls them saintsby calling yes, and they've been
sanctified by that calling.
This is the same letter that weare pulling verse 9 from.
This is the beginning.
These are verses 1 and 2.
We are reading verse 9.
He's using the word called here, just like he did later in the
(15:40):
letter.
In this context is sanctifiedmeaning set apart for salvation.
Keep in mind what we hear fromPaul a few verses later Our Lord
Jesus Christ, who will sustainyou to the end, guiltless, in
the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Melissa (15:55):
So it seems this is set apart for salvation.
Lenny (15:58):
Yes, so these people who were called to be saints were
set apart for salvation, weren'tthey?
Melissa (16:05):
They were.
Lenny (16:06):
This wasn't something they could be in and out of, was
it?
No, they couldn't be out ofsaintness, they couldn't be out
of sanctification anymore.
They've been set apart.
Melissa (16:17):
According to the way Yahweh works and his promises.
Yes, they're good to go.
Lenny (16:22):
Okay.
So the next question is ifwe're called by God's
faithfulness into fellowshipwith him and we're also called
into salvation by him and setapart by him, I would say
absolutely.
I don't know how much more thesame they could be Agreed,
(16:44):
especially in regards to whereyou are at all the time.
You're always in salvation,you're always in salvation,
you're always in fellowship.
Can we also conclude that thesame Greek word used by Paul for
fellowship would mean the samething if John used it in 1 John?
My answer would be that itwould absolutely mean the same
thing.
(17:04):
It's the same word.
If it didn't mean the same thingwhen John said it in his
epistle, how much sense wouldthat make?
If we read John's epistle andhe's talking about fellowship
with God, specific to God, itwould mean the same thing.
You can't be out of thatfellowship.
And would this change the waywe understand 1 John completely?
(17:25):
Now, this question is going tobe specific to people that have
read 1 John.
If you've never heard of 1 John1.9, if you've never been under
a teaching that teaches youthat1 John 1.9 teaches you that
you have to be asking forforgiveness constantly, this
self-cleansing cycle that peoplego through, all pulled from
that passage, but they usefellowship to try to teach you
(17:49):
that you can be in and out.
They use that same word,fellowship.
So my point here is that ifPaul is using it in a certain
context, why would it be anydifferent when John's talking
about fellowship with God?
Are they talking about twodifferent fellowships?
Is fellowship with Goddifferent from Paul to John, or
is it the same?
Melissa (18:07):
I would say it's the same.
Lenny (18:08):
It would have to be the same.
And John certainly understoodfellowship.
He never taught that you couldbe in and out of it in his
epistle.
That's just a man-made error.
I've done several episodes on 1John and have another in the
works, so we're not going tocover that here.
But we have to realize that ourfellowship with God is
unbreakable in order to fullygrasp His love.
(18:29):
Without unbreakable fellowship,your prayer life will be based
on works.
Without unbreakable fellowship,your sin has not fully been
forgiven.
Without unbreakable fellowship,sin will cause God to not
listen to your prayer requests.
Do you understand how holy Godis If your prayer life depended
(18:51):
on behaving in line with theSermon on the Mount?
How many of your prayers is Godhearing?
If you think he's answeringyour prayers based on your
behavior, I think you have amisunderstanding about his
holiness.
Do you really think missing asin here and there is going to
fly with Yahweh?
(19:11):
If you're asking forforgiveness is necessary to
staying right with him?
Melissa (19:15):
Absolutely not.
He's a perfect God, yeah.
Lenny (19:18):
I mean, if he required you to ask for forgiveness for
your sins, if that was one ofhis commands, you better be
doing it perfectly, becausethat's the way he rolls.
Melissa (19:27):
That's why you have to do that blanket statement we
talk about.
Lenny (19:32):
And do you think that would be pleasing to God that
you used a blanket statementjust to get through, so that you
could quickly pray to him andbe in fellowship again?
Melissa (19:40):
No.
Lenny (19:40):
Please, God, just forgive me of everything I did today.
That doesn't sound like a lotof effort when you compare that
to what they were doing underthe law for forgiveness of sins.
Melissa (19:49):
Right.
Lenny (19:51):
We need to really consider these things if you're
going to take on a religiouspractice that's not found
anywhere in Scripture.
Paul didn't teach us toself-cleanse in this way,
because it's not a holy practice.
It does no honor to God to askfor something that was fulfilled
by His grace.
Realizing our sin and askingGod for more forgiveness are not
the same thing as most suppose.
(20:12):
Being sorry or ashamed of sinand not asking for forgiveness
are two different things.
We don't need to include thedesire for more forgiveness.
It's an unholy practice thatPaul never taught.
Why?
Because it cast doubt on thevery thing that we needed the
most Reconciliation to Yahweh.
Melissa (20:36):
Exactly If you desire more forgiveness.
If you're asking for moreforgiveness, then you are
displaying uncertainty that youever had it.
Lenny (20:46):
Yes, you're actually displaying unbelief with your
mouth.
Melissa (20:49):
Yes, and your mind unbelief with your mouth yes,
and your mind.
Lenny (20:52):
We shouldn't do that.
This changes the way we pray.
It changes how we see God, itchanges how we see ourselves
before God, it changes how wesee others in Christ, and it
constantly and repetitivelyreduces our confidence before
our loving Father when we'reasking for more forgiveness.
Melissa (21:10):
It changes, grace.
Lenny (21:12):
It's not grace thinking, it's not grace living.
Is that what we want?
Is that what Paul wanted forhis church?
Is that what God wants for you?
Melissa (21:21):
Absolutely not.
That's why he forgave us past,present and future.
Lenny (21:25):
By definition and in context, if you're called to
salvation, you receive salvationand it's yours, you don't lose
it.
The truth about your fellowshipwith God is the same.
There's no difference.
The separation of fellowshipwith God and salvation from God
is a religious view, not aChristian view.
So, based on that question one,can we be in and out of
(21:47):
fellowship with God?
Based on behavior, no, wecannot.
According to Scripture?
No, there's nothing inScripture that teaches such a
mindset or a practice.
Question two If we know we arealways in fellowship, can we
pray more confidently and morehonestly?
I can say confidently andhonestly from experience that,
(22:13):
yes, absolutely.
Melissa (22:13):
We can be ourselves, can't we?
Lenny (22:14):
We certainly can.
We can completely be ourselves.
We can be honest aboutourselves.
We don't have to try to hidesomething from God which is like
the silliest thing in the world.
You know, you think you'regoing to kind of bend the rules
and slip the radar by onlysinning this way and not that
way.
Just be honest with God.
You can be honest with him.
You're not going to getpunished.
Melissa (22:37):
And it's just so important to be able to come to
him in times of trouble, intimes when you did act a certain
way you're not proud of and youwant to talk to him about it.
You don't have to feel ashamed,you can come right to him.
I just think that's thecraziest thing.
In the times when we need himthe most, we're supposed to
believe that he doesn't want tohear from us.
He's turned his face from usand we're not friends.
Lenny (22:59):
Yeah, exactly.
And then if we think we'redoing everything right and we're
not sinning, and we're doingreally well, why do we even need
him in the first place?
Well, that's the best time tobe thanking him for all the
grace he's given you Right?
Not thanking yourself andpuffing up your chest.
Melissa (23:19):
You know that really reminds me of a family member
situation, right, because, let'ssay, our earthly father.
They're always going to be ourearthly father.
There's nothing that they coulddo to ever not be our earthly
father.
But they can disown you.
They can not talk to you forthe rest of your life if they
don't like how you're behaving.
You can have zero relationshipwith them here on this earth.
Yet you're always, in forever,their child.
(23:40):
Are we really supposed tobelieve that the god of our
salvation is that's how he isturning his back to us yeah,
saying I'm not talking to youyou have been too bad.
Lenny (23:52):
You have drawn the line.
I'm not looking at you anymore.
Well, under the old covenantmaybe that was true, but what
good is the gospel of grace ifit didn't change our standing
with god like they said it would, like the apostles declared
that it did, like Christdeclared that it would.
What good is the gospel ifwe're not right with God?
So the next question do webecome more thankful when we
(24:16):
know that our heavenly fatherfully accepts us?
Melissa (24:20):
Absolutely.
Lenny (24:21):
Does that make you more thankful when you know that the
sacrifice of Christ Yeshuacovered every sin you could ever
commit and made you right withGod, and that you can't get
yourself out of that rightnesswith God?
Melissa (24:35):
Oh, that's peace that surpasses all understanding.
That's ultimate confidence.
Yeah.
Lenny (24:42):
I believe it's that understanding that changes our
behavior and that truly changesthe heart of our being, changes
the way we think and behave.
It's when we know our freedomand we choose to love Christ in
return, not because we're goingto get punished or get some
special reward.
(25:02):
We already recognize the rewardthat we have and we live
thankful in that.
Melissa (25:07):
Yes.
Lenny (25:08):
Rather than looking to achieve by our works.
That's not the way God laid itout.
That's not what I see inScripture.
Melissa (25:15):
And that doesn't sound like eternal rest in him.
Lenny (25:19):
No.
Melissa (25:19):
He is our Sabbath.
Lenny (25:21):
So the word repent is a word that tends to get us
thinking in the way of guilt andneeding more forgiveness, isn't
it?
When we see its appearance inScripture, we're like whoa
repent, but the definition ofrepent in context is a change of
mind.
So, based on that, if we seerepent as meaning to turn away
(25:43):
from, what would we be turningaway from?
Melissa (25:47):
well, in scripture, the way of believing in the old
testament, um the jews would bebeing told to turn away, like
john the baptist would have beentelling them to turn away from
their old way of thinking yeahand turn to christ as the savior
.
Lenny (26:01):
Yeah, so turn away from the basically the self-seeking
side of humanity that we're bornwith thinking that way.
Turn away from that thinking Onstudying Paul's prayers in our
last episode, number 47, didPaul give us something to focus
on instead?
Melissa (26:21):
Yes, the gospel.
Lenny (26:22):
Yeah, the gospel of grace and Christ.
You turn away from your sinfulmindset and you turn towards
Christ.
It's not a matter of stopsinning, it's a matter of change
your thinking, because if yourthinking changes, the behavior
follows.
Melissa (26:43):
Yes.
Lenny (26:44):
If you don't change your thinking.
What good is a change ofbehavior?
That would be something thatwould happen from punishment
Somebody just physically dragsyou away from what you're doing
and throws you in prison for alittle while.
When you come out, did youchange your thinking or did they
just stop you from behavingpoorly?
Melissa (27:01):
The latter.
Lenny (27:02):
You paid a penalty.
God teaches discipline bytraining us for the future.
He doesn't need to punish andhave consequences in order to
get results.
Melissa (27:13):
Paul tells them to take their mind off the law, which
focused on their sin andbehavior and their
self-cleansing efforts, andfocus on what Christ did and
rest in him.
Lenny (27:24):
Exactly so.
Could this concept be comparedwith the analogy Paul uses of
walking by the Spirit versuswalking by the flesh?
Galatians 5.16, we read.
Melissa (27:35):
But I say walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify
the desires of the flesh.
Lenny (27:42):
That sounds like a way of thinking, doesn't it?
Melissa (27:45):
Walk by what you know is true of Yeshua.
Lenny (27:49):
Yeah, so walk by your knowledge, walk by your
understanding of grace.
Melissa (27:53):
And if you're doing that, then you are resting in
him, you are depending on him,you are praying.
Lenny (27:59):
So does Paul say that you'll stop sinning if you walk
by the Spirit?
Does he say that you're justgoing to stop sinning?
You're going to end up turningaway from all sin?
He doesn't say that, but itsure sounds like you're going to
do it a lot less yeah, you'renot going to gratify the desires
of the flesh, you're not goingto put fuel on the fire right
these fires are going toprobably get extinguished pretty
(28:20):
quickly compared to the waythey did before yeah, because
you're not fueling the fire.
It's kind of like that big redbutton.
If sin is off limits and youmust stop, don't press that red
button.
What do you want to do?
But if somebody showed you abigger red button that had
better benefits, what might youdo?
(28:41):
Focus on that bigger red button, that little red button is
probably not that significant.
You're probably not going topush that as often yes because
you have something better tofocus on.
What does paul say will happenif we walk by the spirit?
Well, we already talked aboutthat.
We're not going to gratify thedesires of the flesh, it's not
going to be as interesting.
(29:01):
We are absolutely not going tobe gratified by it.
I would say, when we'regratifying the desires of the
flesh, we're gratified by them.
But if you're focused on Christand you're focused on holy
things, unholy things are justnot as fun.
Melissa (29:16):
Right, they're not going to suit you anymore.
Like we've talked about, we'rea new creation now.
Lenny (29:20):
Yeah.
Melissa (29:21):
We have new desires.
We can choose to turn our backon that truth and forget about
it for a moment and try to goback to the flesh.
Lenny (29:29):
But it's going to feel awkward, but we want to grow in
holiness, so we walk by theSpirit.
Melissa (29:34):
Yes, and I think that also has to do with who we're
spending time with, who we'retalking to, who we're hanging
out with, because if you're justconstantly hanging out with
people that are telling you thatyou need to be asking for
forgiveness, for example, andyou need to be focusing on your
sin, well then you're notwalking by the Spirit, you're
being distracted.
Lenny (29:53):
Would you say that if we focus on holy spiritual things,
that spiritual things willhappen in our lives?
Melissa (29:59):
Yes, we know that to be true.
Lenny (30:01):
I think that's the whole theme of Paul's writings, what
he's trying to tell them when hesays walk by the Spirit.
He's saying focus on holythings.
In episode 47, we just saw thatover and over he's not saying
get cleansed from your sin, getright with God.
He's saying focus on holythings, Do good things, Think of
ways to please God right.
Melissa (30:22):
Right.
Lenny (30:23):
So far in our studies?
Do you think that Paul wantedour primary focus to be on sin
or unholiness?
Melissa (30:29):
I never see him telling people to put their focus on
sin no, put it away.
Lenny (30:33):
Peter said put it away and say meditate on it.
Quite the opposite like get itout of your way and focus on
holy things.
The more you think about it,the worse it gets it.
It's like a cancer.
Melissa (30:43):
Yeah, by contrast.
Actually, Paul is constantlywanting the believers to
increase in the knowledge ofChrist, increase in what's true
of him.
Lenny (30:55):
So do you think it's possible to replace a sinful
habit with a holy habit?
Melissa (30:59):
Absolutely, it's possible.
Lenny (31:01):
I guess in another way you could say instead of just
focusing on stopping a sin,shouldn't we focus on replacing
that behavior with somethingbetter?
Melissa (31:10):
I would say absolutely.
Lenny (31:12):
Amen.
Would you say that when we lookto Yahweh for guidance, that
he'll provide what we need,whether through the body of
believers or through a change ofmind?
Melissa (31:22):
Yes, yes, he does.
Lenny (31:24):
So I think the whole point that Paul's trying to
teach people here is that theSpirit of God will guide us.
If we're seeking the Spirit'sguidance, it's not about stop
doing this, stop doing that.
It's about seeking what is holy.
I don't think it's as hard todo as we think.
Pray about it.
We seek it from the Spiritbecause we know the Spirit lives
(31:46):
within.
Paul said don't present yourbody to sin.
Present yourself to God asthose alive from the dead, as
instruments of righteousness.
And then he says be transformedby the renewal of your mind.
I mean just that statementalone be transformed by the
renewal of your mind.
He's saying that you had a mindrenewal and it's continuing.
(32:07):
And he's saying be transformedby that.
Doesn't that sound a lot likewalking by the spirit?
Yes, be transformed by themessage of grace.
And that's what we were readingin that first part of
Corinthians.
He's telling them about whothey are in Christ, what they
have in Christ.
Be transformed by that, he saysin another place.
(32:29):
He says it in different ways,but it's all the same thing.
What we believe when we receivethe gospel of Christ, we don't
automatically live by thatbelief.
As Paul said hold fast to whatyou've believed.
That's not a call to be afraidof losing your salvation.
(32:50):
That's a call to holy living, aholy living that is
Christ-centered.
It's not all about yourbehavior.
It's about your focus.
Melissa (32:57):
Yes, it's about focus.
Lenny (33:00):
We see that all through Scripture, these comparisons
Walking by the Spirit, walkingby the flesh Hold fast till the
end.
These are all things that aredescribing holy living based on
your belief.
Melissa (33:12):
So it's all about where we put our mind.
It seems, a lot of times whenthe word behavior comes up, you
could replace it with focus.
Lenny (33:20):
Yeah, because that's the only thing that produces it.
Whenever Paul's speaking onbehavior, he was right before
that and right after thattelling them about grace and
what their focus should be.
The whole premise of theletters was about holy living,
and holy living does not comefrom ourselves.
The Spirit is within us, but wecan ignore that and we're
(33:40):
blessed if God wakes us up tothe fact that we're ignoring it.
We're blessed if he causes someevent to happen that shakes our
paradigm, wakes us up if we'rein a slumber.
In that way, he'll do thatbecause the Spirit's in us.
He can do that.
Right, he also lets us beignorant.
Let's try to do like Peter saidmake every effort, make every
(34:00):
effort to focus, make everyeffort to pray for these things.
Melissa (34:05):
I think it would be true to say make every effort to
rely on him for everything.
Exactly, we do need to rely onhim for everything, but we need
to be conscious of that, put ourfocus there, not just take our
focus off of him and, in thebackground, rely on him because
we're going to stumble around.
So really, I see it as thisthat we can, in a sense, decide
(34:29):
that we don't want to be friendswith God.
Lenny (34:32):
We can be total jerks.
Melissa (34:33):
Right, we can turn our backs and we can ignore him for
days, weeks, years, but everytime we bring our focus back
around, he's right there.
He never left, he never stoppeda friendship, he never stopped
loving.
That makes me think of theprodigal son, even though I know
that's jew and gentile.
Lenny (34:53):
Well, it still still applies to god's love and mercy.
Melissa (34:56):
Yeah, it's like we never left, so we can act that
way, but god never acts that way.
Lenny (35:03):
That's's really important and that makes you humbled to
realize.
When somebody wrongs you,especially another Christian,
you get upset at anotherChristian.
You think how irritating, whyare they saying that or why are
they thinking that or why dothey believe that?
And then you just think aboutyourself for a minute and how
God's had to put up with youyour whole life.
(35:23):
You hear Christ saying love, asI have loved you.
How can I stay mad?
There's certainly not a singleperson out there that God hasn't
had to be patient withincluding the Apostle Paul.
Melissa (35:36):
Yes, yes.
Lenny (35:37):
We at least know, prior to his conversion, that God was
very patient with him.
He could have just wiped himout.
Melissa (35:45):
Absolutely.
What a comforting message torealize that God's focus never
shifts.
God's friendship never ends,just like his salvation is never
going to be taken away.
It's us that need to focus.
We just need to realize we needto keep our focus on him, and
then this life can actually be ablessing that's what we got for
(36:07):
this week.
Lenny (36:08):
We'll see you guys again next week for our next episode.
In the meantime, don't forgetto leave us a review on your
favorite podcasting platform anddon't forget to check out these
study guides.
At waking up to gracecom, youcan click on the episode link in
the description section on yourpodcast platform to check out
(36:30):
those study guides, or just goto waking up gracecom to our
podcast episodes page and checkthem all out.
announcement (36:36):
See you guys next time have a great day out there
thank you for listening to thewaking up to grace podcast
brought to you by the finishedwork of our Lord Jesus Christ.
If you enjoyed today's episode,we would love to hear from you.
You can send encouragement ourway right from our episodes and
transcripts page or reach Lennyprivately from the contact form
(36:58):
at wakinguptogracecom.
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