February 5, 2025 • 20 mins
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Jennie and Craig talk about the beloved marmot and some of the best hikes in Washington to see them, almost in time for Ground Hog Day.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jennie Flaming (00:05):
Jennie, welcome to the Washington State hiking
podcast. I'm your host. JennieThwing Flaming,
Craig Romano (00:10):
and I'm your co host. Craig Romano, Craig
Jennie Flaming (00:12):
and I are happy to have you here. We provide
practical and timely, seasonalhiking advice for hikers, trail
runners and potential hikers andtrail runners of all skill and
ability levels that is helpful,accurate, fun and inclusive.
Okay, Craig, happy, belatedGroundhogs Day.
Craig Romano (00:32):
It's one of my favorite holiday. How did you
spend your Groundhog Day? Um,
Jennie Flaming (00:36):
it wasn't anything too exciting to tell
you the truth, it was just, youknow, kind of in office day.
Well,
Craig Romano (00:45):
you know in most about you. Well, I'll tell you,
most groundhogs in this part ofthe of the country were taking a
pretty chill on on Groundhog Dayas well, because they're,
they're, they're buried in theirthey're, they're den somewhere
under a lot of snow, right? SoGroundhog's
Jennie Flaming (01:01):
Day is one of those holidays that only makes
sense if you live in certainplaces, and this isn't really
one of them.
Craig Romano (01:07):
And what I find it's interesting, it's become
part of our culture andeverything, but a lot of people,
really, first of all, in caseyou don't know, and we're not
gonna assume it, marmots aregroundhogs. Groundhogs are
marmots. See, a lot of you. Sothat's so the Woodchuck is,
which is what groundhog iscalled. Is basically, he's the
Eastern Marmot. Okay, okay, he'sa marmot.
Jennie Flaming (01:29):
Is a marmot a type of Groundhog, or is a
groundhog just
Craig Romano (01:33):
a term that was given to them here, okay, kind
of like how we call I'm tryingto think, I can't. Why am I not
thinking? It's, it's just acolloquial name. Okay, okay. So,
so woodchucks are marmots. Theybelong to the family Marmot
okay. So I'm gonna tell you allkinds of cool things you didn't
know about marmots. Tell usabout marmots. But first, let's
(01:55):
just talk. Do you have any ideawhat how Groundhog Day came to
be? Matter of fact, this is the130/9 anniversary.
Jennie Flaming (02:01):
You don't know anything about nothing at all.
Well.
Craig Romano (02:07):
Well, it was the Germans, German immigrants, that
started celebrating inPennsylvania. Is where it
started. Okay on that. So thetradition of Groundhog Day
started with PennsylvaniaGermans. And the custom goes
back predicting weather, goesback to ancient Europe, where a
badger was actually used for theprediction. Okay, see, there's
(02:29):
no badgers. I believe there's nobadgers in Pennsylvania. I think
you have to start getting outmore into Wisconsin, in that
area. Okay, so I guess they justdecided, yeah, there's very few
badgers in Pennsylvania, buthitchhikes are all over the
place. Okay? So that's how theyjust for some crazy, I'm sure,
you know, probably some ancientCELT. No, they're not Celtic. I
don't know where they came uppredicting how the Badger
(02:50):
predicted weather, right?
Jennie Flaming (02:51):
I mean, everything about it is goofy,
including the fact that, like,here in Washington, you know, we
have two more weeks of winter,like, that's just how it is,
maybe three, right? Anyway, alot more than that. March is not
winter here, but in the highcountry, sure, yeah. But I mean,
like in Seattle, Tacoma,Portland, Bellingham, March is
(03:18):
spring, not winter, which, Imean in the mountains, that's
Craig Romano (03:21):
winter. What's interesting too, because I grew
up back east, northeast, andwinter did last very long back
there when I was growing up. Butnow, with climate change,
everything I don't have we made,you know, some have we taken
that into consider the moment,taking that into consideration
when you're saying, you know,right, spring is actually closer
now, right? Yeah. Okay, so I'mgonna tell you five things you
(03:44):
didn't know about marmots,besides not knowing about
because, first of all, I knowour listener who does not love
Marmot so you gotta everyonedoes. Of course, everybody look.
And I want to find that oneperson who doesn't love marmots,
and what is their issue withmarmots, right? I mean, they are
adorable, because I'll tell youeven one of the most
controversial governors in ourin not in our state, but in
(04:05):
America's history. It was a bigMarmot fan, and I'm gonna talk
about her in a minute. Okay, sofive things you don't know about
marmots. Okay? Lay it on me. SoI told you. Groundhogs are
marmots, the rodents belongingto the genus marmota. There are
15 species of marmots in theworld, okay. And they grow
Jennie Flaming (04:22):
like the Olympic Marmot, that is only on the
Olympic Peninsula and theVancouver that's one, that's one
thing I that's the only thing Ireally knew about what I just
told you. So the indigenous,because I was a guide, I know
that. And
Craig Romano (04:36):
so they're fit, and they live in all different
climates, the steppe grasslands,you know, Eastern forests, the
mountains very soon that we kindof equate them here with alpine
meadows, yeah. But even EasternWashington, I've seen them right
down along Columbia River in thebasalt Yeah. Because we have
several species of Marmot herein Washington. You have the
(04:56):
hoary Marmot, the yellow belliedand the Olympic Marmot, cool,
right? And. Then we also acrossin Canada is the Vancouver
Island Marmot that only lives.
So
Jennie Flaming (05:05):
it's like the Olympic Marmot, except the
Vancouver Island version.
Craig Romano (05:10):
Okay, so there are, but there's goes more. I
only give you four species ofmarmots, okay? Or dig up if I
can't. There are six species ofmarmots in North America. So the
Woodchuck is the most widelydistributed. He's all over the
place. And you know, what's alsointeresting? I find this
interesting about about thewoodchuck, because I grew up
back East. You know, weEasterners were known as being
(05:30):
kind of more talkative andboisterous. And you know, we
know the marmots out here arecalled whistlers. That's why
their name, because they'reboisterous. But the Woodchuck
is, is silent. He doesn't, hedoesn't whistle, really. He's
quiet, He's weird. He's a chillMarmot, you know? Okay, they
don't whistle, you know? So,that's it, so, so I talked about
(05:51):
that, and then we did the yellowbellied the Hori Marmot, the
Olympic which is only endemic toOlympic Mountains, the Vancouver
Island Marmot, which is onlyfound on BC, Vancouver Island.
What is the other Marmot?
Jennie, you should know this
Jennie Flaming (06:04):
one. You said all the ones that I know the
Alaska Marmot. That's a separateMarmot. See, I didn't know that
in the
Craig Romano (06:12):
Brooks Range. Oh,
Jennie Flaming (06:15):
okay, so Jay, my husband would have known that.
So that knows everything. Those
Craig Romano (06:19):
are our six marmots here in North America.
Okay, so now think about thatAlaska. So
Jennie Flaming (06:23):
there's three that we have in Washington.
Three in Washington, okay, thehoary, the yellow bellied and
the Olympic So which one is itthat's in Mount Rainier National
Park, because it's a hoaryMarmot, right? Yeah. And then as
the yellow bellied Marmot, theone in the damn Eastern
Washington. You
Craig Romano (06:37):
see them in eastern Washington? Yep, yep,
yeah. So, um, so signal, wetalked about Alaska. You know,
Alaskans don't celebrateGroundhog Day.
Jennie Flaming (06:47):
They don't.
That's true. I lived there formany years. They celebrate,
definitely, winter. Well
Craig Romano (06:52):
still, yeah, February 2. Do you know what
they celebrate? Nothing. Because
Jennie Flaming (06:57):
usually it's winter.
Craig Romano (06:59):
It's Marmot day.
It was a step. It was a step,totally 1009 Do you know who
established
Jennie Flaming (07:10):
it? Not President Obama, Governor,
Governor Sarah Palin. GovernorSarah Palin, of course, and she
did this to celebrate very shorttime as Alaska's governor,
Craig Romano (07:20):
but she got that Marmot Day holiday in there. It
was meant to celebrate Alaska'smarmots and Alaskan culture.
Okay, okay, so the same yearthat that Alaska declared its
Marmot independence, Washingtondeclared the Olympic Marmot as
its official state endemicmammal. Cool. All right. So look
at that. We wanted it. Weweren't gonna let Alaska have
all the all the Marmot fun here?
No way. Man, yeah. So, and thenthe Vancouver Island Marmot,
(07:45):
which is actually making a goodrecovery. There was very few of
them for a while. They're one ofthe most endangered mammals. And
if you remember that beautiful,endangered, endangered species
stamps that came out last year,Ashley, going for the United
States, if you're payingattention, the Vancouver Island
Marmot was on that anything.
Wait a minute, he's Canadian.
Why is he on there? We, likeVancouver Island, truly figure.
(08:07):
But I think we weren't trying todo some like, trying to make you
our 51st state, like, likesomeone else we know in this
country, we it was very, veryinteresting that that they did,
that they include it becausehe's a success story that
they've actually brought back.
They wanted to show him becausehe's so darn cute
Jennie Flaming (08:25):
too. Yeah. So all marmots are really cute. So
Craig Romano (08:27):
Canada. So here's the other thing I want you to
know about. So they WinterOlympics in 2010 up in
Vancouver, the official theofficial mascot, was a marmot,
and he was called muck muck. No,do you know what muck muck muck
stands for? This is what I love.
Muck. Muck is from the Chinookjargon, okay? And it means to
eat, okay, okay, to eat. Andbasically, marmots do. That's
(08:51):
all they did. And did you knowlast that there is a muck muck
mountain in Washington? It did
Jennie Flaming (09:00):
not it's over.
It's over in the TiffanyHighlands. Okay, so, so I tell
everybody where that is, becauseI know where that is.
Unknown (09:06):
It's near conconully.
Do you still need to tell you
Jennie Flaming (09:11):
where? Yeah, yeah, like North Central
Washington, yeah,
Craig Romano (09:15):
it's where they were. The North Cascades are.
They're kind of their Eastern,extreme
Jennie Flaming (09:22):
east of Winthrop, yes, northeast,
northeast, northeast ofWenatchee.
Craig Romano (09:27):
Okay, okay, I didn't know that. So to go visit
it. I mean, I've given you five.
There's so many great things. SoI want you know I really think
we should do some kind ofcelebration here. I mean, I know
my wife and I, we watched themovie Groundhog Day, which is
just, just, I absolutely lovethat movie. It's a fantastic
movie. So we have our tradition,you know, yeah, okay, and we do
(09:50):
it over and over and over again.
Of course you
Jennie Flaming (09:56):
do, because otherwise it wouldn't be
Groundhog Day. Ah. My sister inlaw's birthday is on Groundhog's
Day. So that's usually whatmakes me that's usually what I'm
thinking about that day, morethan groundhogs. Okay, but I
would love to know, Craig, whatare some of your favorite Marmot
hikes in Washington? I can tellyou mine too, including maybe my
(10:18):
all time favorite Marmot viewingspot that you don't even have to
hike to get wonder which thatis, so you'll have to wait until
it's my turn.
Craig Romano (10:26):
Well, if you, if you're interested in seeing one
of those endemic, rare Olympicmoments, yes, Hurricane Hill,
yes, you go in. The thing is,now you go, you go up the paved
trail. Hurricane Hill. There's atrail that drops down to the
Elwha Valley. Yep, you can hikethe first half mile or so on
that where it's just drew themeadows on top mount. Yeah,
that's one of the best spots,yep, to see the Olympic Marmot.
(10:48):
Yep. So, so that's a good one inthe North Cascades, one of the
best places to see marmots. Andthey are the most gregarious lot
there. I don't know why theseguys are so gregarious on So,
Holly arm, yeah. So Holly arm isMarmot heaven. Yeah. So lots of
arms. I mean, there's so manyplaces that you can see marmots,
whistlers as you will just lovethem. Yeah, where?
Jennie Flaming (11:11):
Okay, so you said you the a good place to see
yellow bellied marmots was likein the Columbia Valley in
eastern Washington. What aresome I don't think I've ever
seen I've done a lot of hikesover there. I don't think I've
seen one. It's curious. Whereyou feel like are the best
spots? They're probably places Ihaven't met.
Craig Romano (11:29):
No, it's amazing even, even places like steamboat
rock, the coolies in there, themarmots are in there. They're
they're usually in the basalt,remember, too. And we tend to
think of them as being more inthe Alpine, but there are
marmots that live on the Asiansteppe. They like that
grasslands and dry area, yep,you know. And so I guess they're
(11:51):
kind of, you know, taking theplace of Badgers, who also kind
of like that similar type ofenvironment too,
Jennie Flaming (11:57):
over there, like steamboat rock, for example.
Like, what's the best season tosee them? Or it doesn't really
matter. I
Craig Romano (12:03):
think springs a good time whenever they're
getting more active. Yeah,thinking too. I was just
thinking because I had one ofthe craziest Marmot experiences,
too. Again, we tend to think ofthem as being in the meadows.
But several years ago, I was ontrail run on the Pacific Crest
Trail, Pacific Crest Trail onbridge Creek in the forest, all
forested, and all sudden, Ispoke to monarch, and he's
(12:23):
running on a trail, big, bigold, wobbly guy. Any I watched
him climb a tree. We went up andclimbed a tree. Now we don't see
I've got pictures of this. Youdon't believe me. I'll put it on
my
Jennie Flaming (12:32):
site just I do believe you like I would have
been shocked. It was thatCraziest thing.
Craig Romano (12:36):
I've never seen this before, and same thing I
grew up with the woodchucks whogrew up in the forest back
there, but I never see them intrees. They're usually, you
know, just on the field edgesand everything, right? So Marvin
can climb trees. Yeah,
Jennie Flaming (12:49):
yeah. Well, you know, um, going back to
hurricane Hill for a minute. Ijust want to make a big plug for
that hike in general. I feellike sometimes people overlook
it because they're like, youknow, like when I did tours over
there, you know, sometimes Ifound, I found that that was a
really good tour hike becauseit's not super long and has a
(13:12):
big payoff, which is great ifyou're a tour guide, but it is,
you know, from the end of theparking area up to hurricane
Hill, it's only three milesround trip, and it climbs, but
it's not extremely steep.
There's there might be as muchas 1000 feet of elevation gain,
but it's not more than that, andthe payoff for the views is
amazing. But even before you getthere, you know, there's wild
(13:35):
flower fields. I've seen bearsthere quite a few times, super
close to the trail, which iswhich is better. But like, you
know, looking across a meadow,and that is a great place for
mermaids. The place I wasthinking of where you don't even
have to drive to see them, isalso at hurricane ridge. So have
you been up there since the daylodge fire? I have not okay. So
(13:58):
I, I went up there in late May2024, and actually, we have, you
weren't on this one, but we havean episode about that
experience, because I also tookthe bus there. But anyway, I
don't remember. I rememberseeing lots of marmots on trails
(14:19):
up there before the fire. Butwhen the lodge was there, I
don't remember seeing them,like, all over the place, like
in the parking area.
Craig Romano (14:31):
We had built the original lodge over one of their
ancients, maybe,
Jennie Flaming (14:35):
right? Maybe, I don't know. But anyway, it was
like there were just marmots,like, everywhere, you know,
like, right there. But it'sinteresting because our friend
Erin, who I was there with, wholives in Port, Angeles, she and
I noticed that a lot of peoplewere missing them, right? Like,
you know, we pointed them out topeople because, you know, we
(14:56):
both spent a lot of time doing,like, travel writing and being.
Slides. And you know how youcan't help yourself, you're
like, stranger, there's a barMIT right there. So that was
kind of interesting. The like,they're hard to see. Like, you
definitely have to be lookingfor them. If they're not moving,
they're really camouflaged. And
Craig Romano (15:15):
I find the Olympic marmots are a little bit more
mellow. They're not whistling asmuch. You know, they don't seem
to be that's just my experiencewith them. Of course, you know
the whole wisdom, when you'reyou're hiking, particularly by
yourself, in an area that doesnot have a lot of people, you
get into one of those basins,and boy, the first century, it's
a century Marmot. It's gonna letout this high pierced. It's
amazing, but also it's alsointeresting. You ever watch some
(15:38):
of them too? Because, looking,you know, a lot of their their
predators are hawks and eaglesabove planes, over, over flying,
sometimes the shadow across themeadows. They may take that as a
hawk or an eagle. Yeah, we'retalking about, you know,
whistlers are one of the, one ofthe great names we call, call
marmots, the other name I love.
It's not in vogue now. But ifyou go back into, you know, 100
(16:00):
years ago, if you're at alogging camp, or you see it, and
there's, there's a place name onone of in the North Cascades.
It's in my it's in my centralWashington day hiking, Central
Washington book in the Antiochmountains, whistling pig.
Whistling pig Meadows. Okay, sowhistling pig was a name that a
lot of the loggers and peopleworked in the woods actually,
(16:20):
just like they were calling themwoodchucks. You know, any
wrestling pig, anothercolloquial, colloquial name for
our little marmotive friends.
Yeah, you
Jennie Flaming (16:30):
know one other, one other Marmot hike that I
just want to give a plug for isthe skyline loop in Mount
Rainier National Park. And Imean, I'm gonna be honest with
you, this is like, you know,Craig, but if you haven't been
on this train, 100 classics,yeah. I mean, it's, it's, it's
stunning. It's one of the mostincredible hikes in Washington.
(16:53):
I mean, it is definitely busy,right? I mean, there's a, there
are a lot of people that hikethis trail, but it's, it's one
of those ones that I'm like,this hike is amazing. It's worth
a vacation day. It's worth thehassle of getting a timed entry
permit to the paradise corridor.
Like it's, it's really, reallyworth it. And there's a reason
(17:14):
it's so popular. And similar towhat we said about hurricane
Hill, amazing wild flowers. Ithink one thing to watch out for
with the skyline loop is that,really, any time in July,
there's still a lot of snow, youknow, and even you know, there's
a small snow field that youmight have to cross any time of
(17:36):
year depending on the year. But,you know, I'd say it's a good
August, September hike, butthere are tons of marmots up
there, and I've seen them lotsof places in Mount Rainier
National Park, but that's onewhere I feel like they're pretty
consistently, quite a few of
Craig Romano (17:57):
them. And we have to tell, and I know there's a
lot of overzealous hikers outthere trying to protect the
meadows, and we thank you, butlay off the marmots. They're
gonna be all over the
Jennie Flaming (18:08):
meadows. It's okay for them to be trampling.
Nobody eat flowers. They
Craig Romano (18:12):
eat them. They're gonna be munching on those
loops. Just remind me one of thecraziest Marmot experience I
ever had, and this could bevery, very traumatizing for
children.
Jennie Flaming (18:20):
So so if you have young ones, you may want
maybe listen to this later.
Craig Romano (18:24):
So I was in Waterton Lakes National Park in
Alberta early summer years ago,and one of the cool things you
get to do, you rent a canoe, goout, go out on the lake, and
just sit in the middle Lake, andthe grizzly bears come out. They
start coming out of their den.
It's perfectly safe, because,you know, you're out in the
lake, perfectly safe. You're inthe middle of the lake.
Jennie Flaming (18:44):
It's fine, have you? Have you not seen bears
swimming? They do swim. But
Craig Romano (18:48):
I'll tell you why.
They're not going to beinterested in Italian food. I'll
tell this right now, okay,because what they're doing, they
are, they have these huge claws.
They're they are tearing upthese avalanche shoots. They're
tearing they can sense Marmot,Marmot dads, they're tearing the
marmots out of the den. Okay, soit's kind of nature is so hard,
they're not interested in me.
I'm too much work to sit outthere and like, okay, they got a
(19:10):
nice fresh, fresh Marmite comingout that den. They they're
amazing because, you know, waynature works. A lot of these
rodents. There's bazillions ofthem because they got to feed so
many other so. Golden Eagleslike them. Bald eagles like
them. Grizzly bears are fond ofMarmot also, yeah. But most,
most of the bear diets actuallyfruits and get more vegetarian,
but every now and then they agood Marmot steak. Sounds good,
Jennie Flaming (19:35):
yeah. Okay, cool. All right. Well, um,
thanks for enlightening us aboutmarmots. And that was fun. My
favorite. I mean, most of those,all of those places we mentioned
for Marmot, it's going to be afew months before we can go see
them, but this is a good time tomake a plan, right?
Craig Romano (19:53):
And defending on, I don't know, the crazy weather
back east, it might be a maybe awhile even in Pennsylvania, to
see a marmot. So, right? So forsure, that's hold off on the
Marmot hiking for a littlewhile. All right.
Jennie Flaming (20:03):
Sounds good.
You.
Jennie, welcome to the Washington State hiking
podcast. I'm your host. JennieThwing Flaming,
Craig Romano (00:10):
and I'm your co host. Craig Romano, Craig
Jennie Flaming (00:12):
and I are happy to have you here. We provide
practical and timely, seasonalhiking advice for hikers, trail
runners and potential hikers andtrail runners of all skill and
ability levels that is helpful,accurate, fun and inclusive.
Okay, Craig, happy, belatedGroundhogs Day.
Craig Romano (00:32):
It's one of my favorite holiday. How did you
spend your Groundhog Day? Um,
Jennie Flaming (00:36):
it wasn't anything too exciting to tell
you the truth, it was just, youknow, kind of in office day.
Well,
Craig Romano (00:45):
you know in most about you. Well, I'll tell you,
most groundhogs in this part ofthe of the country were taking a
pretty chill on on Groundhog Dayas well, because they're,
they're, they're buried in theirthey're, they're den somewhere
under a lot of snow, right? SoGroundhog's
Jennie Flaming (01:01):
Day is one of those holidays that only makes
sense if you live in certainplaces, and this isn't really
one of them.
Craig Romano (01:07):
And what I find it's interesting, it's become
part of our culture andeverything, but a lot of people,
really, first of all, in caseyou don't know, and we're not
gonna assume it, marmots aregroundhogs. Groundhogs are
marmots. See, a lot of you. Sothat's so the Woodchuck is,
which is what groundhog iscalled. Is basically, he's the
Eastern Marmot. Okay, okay, he'sa marmot.
Jennie Flaming (01:29):
Is a marmot a type of Groundhog, or is a
groundhog just
Craig Romano (01:33):
a term that was given to them here, okay, kind
of like how we call I'm tryingto think, I can't. Why am I not
thinking? It's, it's just acolloquial name. Okay, okay. So,
so woodchucks are marmots. Theybelong to the family Marmot
okay. So I'm gonna tell you allkinds of cool things you didn't
know about marmots. Tell usabout marmots. But first, let's
(01:55):
just talk. Do you have any ideawhat how Groundhog Day came to
be? Matter of fact, this is the130/9 anniversary.
Jennie Flaming (02:01):
You don't know anything about nothing at all.
Well.
Craig Romano (02:07):
Well, it was the Germans, German immigrants, that
started celebrating inPennsylvania. Is where it
started. Okay on that. So thetradition of Groundhog Day
started with PennsylvaniaGermans. And the custom goes
back predicting weather, goesback to ancient Europe, where a
badger was actually used for theprediction. Okay, see, there's
(02:29):
no badgers. I believe there's nobadgers in Pennsylvania. I think
you have to start getting outmore into Wisconsin, in that
area. Okay, so I guess they justdecided, yeah, there's very few
badgers in Pennsylvania, buthitchhikes are all over the
place. Okay? So that's how theyjust for some crazy, I'm sure,
you know, probably some ancientCELT. No, they're not Celtic. I
don't know where they came uppredicting how the Badger
(02:50):
predicted weather, right?
Jennie Flaming (02:51):
I mean, everything about it is goofy,
including the fact that, like,here in Washington, you know, we
have two more weeks of winter,like, that's just how it is,
maybe three, right? Anyway, alot more than that. March is not
winter here, but in the highcountry, sure, yeah. But I mean,
like in Seattle, Tacoma,Portland, Bellingham, March is
(03:18):
spring, not winter, which, Imean in the mountains, that's
Craig Romano (03:21):
winter. What's interesting too, because I grew
up back east, northeast, andwinter did last very long back
there when I was growing up. Butnow, with climate change,
everything I don't have we made,you know, some have we taken
that into consider the moment,taking that into consideration
when you're saying, you know,right, spring is actually closer
now, right? Yeah. Okay, so I'mgonna tell you five things you
(03:44):
didn't know about marmots,besides not knowing about
because, first of all, I knowour listener who does not love
Marmot so you gotta everyonedoes. Of course, everybody look.
And I want to find that oneperson who doesn't love marmots,
and what is their issue withmarmots, right? I mean, they are
adorable, because I'll tell youeven one of the most
controversial governors in ourin not in our state, but in
(04:05):
America's history. It was a bigMarmot fan, and I'm gonna talk
about her in a minute. Okay, sofive things you don't know about
marmots. Okay? Lay it on me. SoI told you. Groundhogs are
marmots, the rodents belongingto the genus marmota. There are
15 species of marmots in theworld, okay. And they grow
Jennie Flaming (04:22):
like the Olympic Marmot, that is only on the
Olympic Peninsula and theVancouver that's one, that's one
thing I that's the only thing Ireally knew about what I just
told you. So the indigenous,because I was a guide, I know
that. And
Craig Romano (04:36):
so they're fit, and they live in all different
climates, the steppe grasslands,you know, Eastern forests, the
mountains very soon that we kindof equate them here with alpine
meadows, yeah. But even EasternWashington, I've seen them right
down along Columbia River in thebasalt Yeah. Because we have
several species of Marmot herein Washington. You have the
(04:56):
hoary Marmot, the yellow belliedand the Olympic Marmot, cool,
right? And. Then we also acrossin Canada is the Vancouver
Island Marmot that only lives.
So
Jennie Flaming (05:05):
it's like the Olympic Marmot, except the
Vancouver Island version.
Craig Romano (05:10):
Okay, so there are, but there's goes more. I
only give you four species ofmarmots, okay? Or dig up if I
can't. There are six species ofmarmots in North America. So the
Woodchuck is the most widelydistributed. He's all over the
place. And you know, what's alsointeresting? I find this
interesting about about thewoodchuck, because I grew up
back East. You know, weEasterners were known as being
(05:30):
kind of more talkative andboisterous. And you know, we
know the marmots out here arecalled whistlers. That's why
their name, because they'reboisterous. But the Woodchuck
is, is silent. He doesn't, hedoesn't whistle, really. He's
quiet, He's weird. He's a chillMarmot, you know? Okay, they
don't whistle, you know? So,that's it, so, so I talked about
(05:51):
that, and then we did the yellowbellied the Hori Marmot, the
Olympic which is only endemic toOlympic Mountains, the Vancouver
Island Marmot, which is onlyfound on BC, Vancouver Island.
What is the other Marmot?
Jennie, you should know this
Jennie Flaming (06:04):
one. You said all the ones that I know the
Alaska Marmot. That's a separateMarmot. See, I didn't know that
in the
Craig Romano (06:12):
Brooks Range. Oh,
Jennie Flaming (06:15):
okay, so Jay, my husband would have known that.
So that knows everything. Those
Craig Romano (06:19):
are our six marmots here in North America.
Okay, so now think about thatAlaska. So
Jennie Flaming (06:23):
there's three that we have in Washington.
Three in Washington, okay, thehoary, the yellow bellied and
the Olympic So which one is itthat's in Mount Rainier National
Park, because it's a hoaryMarmot, right? Yeah. And then as
the yellow bellied Marmot, theone in the damn Eastern
Washington. You
Craig Romano (06:37):
see them in eastern Washington? Yep, yep,
yeah. So, um, so signal, wetalked about Alaska. You know,
Alaskans don't celebrateGroundhog Day.
Jennie Flaming (06:47):
They don't.
That's true. I lived there formany years. They celebrate,
definitely, winter. Well
Craig Romano (06:52):
still, yeah, February 2. Do you know what
they celebrate? Nothing. Because
Jennie Flaming (06:57):
usually it's winter.
Craig Romano (06:59):
It's Marmot day.
It was a step. It was a step,totally 1009 Do you know who
established
Jennie Flaming (07:10):
it? Not President Obama, Governor,
Governor Sarah Palin. GovernorSarah Palin, of course, and she
did this to celebrate very shorttime as Alaska's governor,
Craig Romano (07:20):
but she got that Marmot Day holiday in there. It
was meant to celebrate Alaska'smarmots and Alaskan culture.
Okay, okay, so the same yearthat that Alaska declared its
Marmot independence, Washingtondeclared the Olympic Marmot as
its official state endemicmammal. Cool. All right. So look
at that. We wanted it. Weweren't gonna let Alaska have
all the all the Marmot fun here?
No way. Man, yeah. So, and thenthe Vancouver Island Marmot,
(07:45):
which is actually making a goodrecovery. There was very few of
them for a while. They're one ofthe most endangered mammals. And
if you remember that beautiful,endangered, endangered species
stamps that came out last year,Ashley, going for the United
States, if you're payingattention, the Vancouver Island
Marmot was on that anything.
Wait a minute, he's Canadian.
Why is he on there? We, likeVancouver Island, truly figure.
(08:07):
But I think we weren't trying todo some like, trying to make you
our 51st state, like, likesomeone else we know in this
country, we it was very, veryinteresting that that they did,
that they include it becausehe's a success story that
they've actually brought back.
They wanted to show him becausehe's so darn cute
Jennie Flaming (08:25):
too. Yeah. So all marmots are really cute. So
Craig Romano (08:27):
Canada. So here's the other thing I want you to
know about. So they WinterOlympics in 2010 up in
Vancouver, the official theofficial mascot, was a marmot,
and he was called muck muck. No,do you know what muck muck muck
stands for? This is what I love.
Muck. Muck is from the Chinookjargon, okay? And it means to
eat, okay, okay, to eat. Andbasically, marmots do. That's
(08:51):
all they did. And did you knowlast that there is a muck muck
mountain in Washington? It did
Jennie Flaming (09:00):
not it's over.
It's over in the TiffanyHighlands. Okay, so, so I tell
everybody where that is, becauseI know where that is.
Unknown (09:06):
It's near conconully.
Do you still need to tell you
Jennie Flaming (09:11):
where? Yeah, yeah, like North Central
Washington, yeah,
Craig Romano (09:15):
it's where they were. The North Cascades are.
They're kind of their Eastern,extreme
Jennie Flaming (09:22):
east of Winthrop, yes, northeast,
northeast, northeast ofWenatchee.
Craig Romano (09:27):
Okay, okay, I didn't know that. So to go visit
it. I mean, I've given you five.
There's so many great things. SoI want you know I really think
we should do some kind ofcelebration here. I mean, I know
my wife and I, we watched themovie Groundhog Day, which is
just, just, I absolutely lovethat movie. It's a fantastic
movie. So we have our tradition,you know, yeah, okay, and we do
(09:50):
it over and over and over again.
Of course you
Jennie Flaming (09:56):
do, because otherwise it wouldn't be
Groundhog Day. Ah. My sister inlaw's birthday is on Groundhog's
Day. So that's usually whatmakes me that's usually what I'm
thinking about that day, morethan groundhogs. Okay, but I
would love to know, Craig, whatare some of your favorite Marmot
hikes in Washington? I can tellyou mine too, including maybe my
(10:18):
all time favorite Marmot viewingspot that you don't even have to
hike to get wonder which thatis, so you'll have to wait until
it's my turn.
Craig Romano (10:26):
Well, if you, if you're interested in seeing one
of those endemic, rare Olympicmoments, yes, Hurricane Hill,
yes, you go in. The thing is,now you go, you go up the paved
trail. Hurricane Hill. There's atrail that drops down to the
Elwha Valley. Yep, you can hikethe first half mile or so on
that where it's just drew themeadows on top mount. Yeah,
that's one of the best spots,yep, to see the Olympic Marmot.
(10:48):
Yep. So, so that's a good one inthe North Cascades, one of the
best places to see marmots. Andthey are the most gregarious lot
there. I don't know why theseguys are so gregarious on So,
Holly arm, yeah. So Holly arm isMarmot heaven. Yeah. So lots of
arms. I mean, there's so manyplaces that you can see marmots,
whistlers as you will just lovethem. Yeah, where?
Jennie Flaming (11:11):
Okay, so you said you the a good place to see
yellow bellied marmots was likein the Columbia Valley in
eastern Washington. What aresome I don't think I've ever
seen I've done a lot of hikesover there. I don't think I've
seen one. It's curious. Whereyou feel like are the best
spots? They're probably places Ihaven't met.
Craig Romano (11:29):
No, it's amazing even, even places like steamboat
rock, the coolies in there, themarmots are in there. They're
they're usually in the basalt,remember, too. And we tend to
think of them as being more inthe Alpine, but there are
marmots that live on the Asiansteppe. They like that
grasslands and dry area, yep,you know. And so I guess they're
(11:51):
kind of, you know, taking theplace of Badgers, who also kind
of like that similar type ofenvironment too,
Jennie Flaming (11:57):
over there, like steamboat rock, for example.
Like, what's the best season tosee them? Or it doesn't really
matter. I
Craig Romano (12:03):
think springs a good time whenever they're
getting more active. Yeah,thinking too. I was just
thinking because I had one ofthe craziest Marmot experiences,
too. Again, we tend to think ofthem as being in the meadows.
But several years ago, I was ontrail run on the Pacific Crest
Trail, Pacific Crest Trail onbridge Creek in the forest, all
forested, and all sudden, Ispoke to monarch, and he's
(12:23):
running on a trail, big, bigold, wobbly guy. Any I watched
him climb a tree. We went up andclimbed a tree. Now we don't see
I've got pictures of this. Youdon't believe me. I'll put it on
my
Jennie Flaming (12:32):
site just I do believe you like I would have
been shocked. It was thatCraziest thing.
Craig Romano (12:36):
I've never seen this before, and same thing I
grew up with the woodchucks whogrew up in the forest back
there, but I never see them intrees. They're usually, you
know, just on the field edgesand everything, right? So Marvin
can climb trees. Yeah,
Jennie Flaming (12:49):
yeah. Well, you know, um, going back to
hurricane Hill for a minute. Ijust want to make a big plug for
that hike in general. I feellike sometimes people overlook
it because they're like, youknow, like when I did tours over
there, you know, sometimes Ifound, I found that that was a
really good tour hike becauseit's not super long and has a
(13:12):
big payoff, which is great ifyou're a tour guide, but it is,
you know, from the end of theparking area up to hurricane
Hill, it's only three milesround trip, and it climbs, but
it's not extremely steep.
There's there might be as muchas 1000 feet of elevation gain,
but it's not more than that, andthe payoff for the views is
amazing. But even before you getthere, you know, there's wild
(13:35):
flower fields. I've seen bearsthere quite a few times, super
close to the trail, which iswhich is better. But like, you
know, looking across a meadow,and that is a great place for
mermaids. The place I wasthinking of where you don't even
have to drive to see them, isalso at hurricane ridge. So have
you been up there since the daylodge fire? I have not okay. So
(13:58):
I, I went up there in late May2024, and actually, we have, you
weren't on this one, but we havean episode about that
experience, because I also tookthe bus there. But anyway, I
don't remember. I rememberseeing lots of marmots on trails
(14:19):
up there before the fire. Butwhen the lodge was there, I
don't remember seeing them,like, all over the place, like
in the parking area.
Craig Romano (14:31):
We had built the original lodge over one of their
ancients, maybe,
Jennie Flaming (14:35):
right? Maybe, I don't know. But anyway, it was
like there were just marmots,like, everywhere, you know,
like, right there. But it'sinteresting because our friend
Erin, who I was there with, wholives in Port, Angeles, she and
I noticed that a lot of peoplewere missing them, right? Like,
you know, we pointed them out topeople because, you know, we
(14:56):
both spent a lot of time doing,like, travel writing and being.
Slides. And you know how youcan't help yourself, you're
like, stranger, there's a barMIT right there. So that was
kind of interesting. The like,they're hard to see. Like, you
definitely have to be lookingfor them. If they're not moving,
they're really camouflaged. And
Craig Romano (15:15):
I find the Olympic marmots are a little bit more
mellow. They're not whistling asmuch. You know, they don't seem
to be that's just my experiencewith them. Of course, you know
the whole wisdom, when you'reyou're hiking, particularly by
yourself, in an area that doesnot have a lot of people, you
get into one of those basins,and boy, the first century, it's
a century Marmot. It's gonna letout this high pierced. It's
amazing, but also it's alsointeresting. You ever watch some
(15:38):
of them too? Because, looking,you know, a lot of their their
predators are hawks and eaglesabove planes, over, over flying,
sometimes the shadow across themeadows. They may take that as a
hawk or an eagle. Yeah, we'retalking about, you know,
whistlers are one of the, one ofthe great names we call, call
marmots, the other name I love.
It's not in vogue now. But ifyou go back into, you know, 100
(16:00):
years ago, if you're at alogging camp, or you see it, and
there's, there's a place name onone of in the North Cascades.
It's in my it's in my centralWashington day hiking, Central
Washington book in the Antiochmountains, whistling pig.
Whistling pig Meadows. Okay, sowhistling pig was a name that a
lot of the loggers and peopleworked in the woods actually,
(16:20):
just like they were calling themwoodchucks. You know, any
wrestling pig, anothercolloquial, colloquial name for
our little marmotive friends.
Yeah, you
Jennie Flaming (16:30):
know one other, one other Marmot hike that I
just want to give a plug for isthe skyline loop in Mount
Rainier National Park. And Imean, I'm gonna be honest with
you, this is like, you know,Craig, but if you haven't been
on this train, 100 classics,yeah. I mean, it's, it's, it's
stunning. It's one of the mostincredible hikes in Washington.
(16:53):
I mean, it is definitely busy,right? I mean, there's a, there
are a lot of people that hikethis trail, but it's, it's one
of those ones that I'm like,this hike is amazing. It's worth
a vacation day. It's worth thehassle of getting a timed entry
permit to the paradise corridor.
Like it's, it's really, reallyworth it. And there's a reason
(17:14):
it's so popular. And similar towhat we said about hurricane
Hill, amazing wild flowers. Ithink one thing to watch out for
with the skyline loop is that,really, any time in July,
there's still a lot of snow, youknow, and even you know, there's
a small snow field that youmight have to cross any time of
(17:36):
year depending on the year. But,you know, I'd say it's a good
August, September hike, butthere are tons of marmots up
there, and I've seen them lotsof places in Mount Rainier
National Park, but that's onewhere I feel like they're pretty
consistently, quite a few of
Craig Romano (17:57):
them. And we have to tell, and I know there's a
lot of overzealous hikers outthere trying to protect the
meadows, and we thank you, butlay off the marmots. They're
gonna be all over the
Jennie Flaming (18:08):
meadows. It's okay for them to be trampling.
Nobody eat flowers. They
Craig Romano (18:12):
eat them. They're gonna be munching on those
loops. Just remind me one of thecraziest Marmot experience I
ever had, and this could bevery, very traumatizing for
children.
Jennie Flaming (18:20):
So so if you have young ones, you may want
maybe listen to this later.
Craig Romano (18:24):
So I was in Waterton Lakes National Park in
Alberta early summer years ago,and one of the cool things you
get to do, you rent a canoe, goout, go out on the lake, and
just sit in the middle Lake, andthe grizzly bears come out. They
start coming out of their den.
It's perfectly safe, because,you know, you're out in the
lake, perfectly safe. You're inthe middle of the lake.
Jennie Flaming (18:44):
It's fine, have you? Have you not seen bears
swimming? They do swim. But
Craig Romano (18:48):
I'll tell you why.
They're not going to beinterested in Italian food. I'll
tell this right now, okay,because what they're doing, they
are, they have these huge claws.
They're they are tearing upthese avalanche shoots. They're
tearing they can sense Marmot,Marmot dads, they're tearing the
marmots out of the den. Okay, soit's kind of nature is so hard,
they're not interested in me.
I'm too much work to sit outthere and like, okay, they got a
(19:10):
nice fresh, fresh Marmite comingout that den. They they're
amazing because, you know, waynature works. A lot of these
rodents. There's bazillions ofthem because they got to feed so
many other so. Golden Eagleslike them. Bald eagles like
them. Grizzly bears are fond ofMarmot also, yeah. But most,
most of the bear diets actuallyfruits and get more vegetarian,
but every now and then they agood Marmot steak. Sounds good,
Jennie Flaming (19:35):
yeah. Okay, cool. All right. Well, um,
thanks for enlightening us aboutmarmots. And that was fun. My
favorite. I mean, most of those,all of those places we mentioned
for Marmot, it's going to be afew months before we can go see
them, but this is a good time tomake a plan, right?
Craig Romano (19:53):
And defending on, I don't know, the crazy weather
back east, it might be a maybe awhile even in Pennsylvania, to
see a marmot. So, right? So forsure, that's hold off on the
Marmot hiking for a littlewhile. All right.
Jennie Flaming (20:03):
Sounds good.
You.
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