February 26, 2025 • 38 mins
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Jennie and Craig share some of their favorite wildlife encounters and favorite places to see wildlife on Washington’s trails
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jennie Flaming (00:05):
Jennie, welcome to the Washington State hiking
podcast. I'm your host. JennieThwing Flaming,
Unknown (00:10):
and I'm your co host.
Craig Romano, Craig
Jennie Flaming (00:12):
and I are happy to have you here. We provide
practical and timely, seasonalhiking advice for hikers, trail
runners and potential hikers andtrail runners of all skill and
ability levels that is helpful,accurate, fun and inclusive.
Hey, Craig, how's it going?
Craig Romano (00:32):
Good. Good. You know, I just had one of the most
amazing experiences on one of myrecent hikes that I'm just dying
to talk about.
Jennie Flaming (00:40):
Okay, so, yeah.
So for everybody listening,we're going to talk about
wildlife encounters on hikes inWashington with this episode.
And I want to just start bysaying, like some safety related
things will come up, but that'snot really the topic. So we are
going to do another episodeabout wildlife safety, but this
(01:02):
one is more for Craig and I tojust share some of our wildlife
encounters, and we would love tohear from you. We've got that
option to text us, so we wouldlove to hear about your wildlife
story, I can't respond to thattext, so unless you like, put in
(01:23):
your email address. So but wecould talk about it on a future
episode, which would be reallyfun. And if you have questions
about wildlife safety, that'd bea great place to put them also.
And then in a future episode,when we talk about that, we can
address those. Okay, Craig, solet's, let's talk about, first
(01:45):
of all, what are some of theanimals that people can
encounter on trails? Oh,
Craig Romano (01:52):
where do you want me to start? So, so to start up
to me, one of the most excitingthings about being on the trail
is the chance, the opportunity,you never know, of encountering
a wild critter. And of course,we usually see the little guys.
So the mega fauna is what I livefor. And so I've encountered in
(02:16):
my hiking some, a lot of megafauna, and a lot of right here
in Washington. So what do I wantto talk about? And again, it
depends on who you are and howyou run. You might be absolutely
terrified to encounter one ofthese, or you like me, it's just
Wow, amazing. So we're talkingall your unglets, you know, your
(02:40):
deer, but then you get the bigguys, the moose, you know, the
elk, those guys, we can talkabout the cats, bobcats, links,
mountain lions, cougars, right?
The canines, coyotes, wolves,foxes, things like big horn
sheep, mountain goats, you know?
Oh, am I leaving out any of themega fauna here,
Jennie Flaming (03:04):
bears you're leaving. So
Craig Romano (03:06):
how can I leave out bears? I know bears, of
course, you know which I've seenmore bears than I can possibly
count, and that includes blackbears and grizzly bears in this
part of the of the country. Sodefinitely want to talk about
some of these guys. But youknow, some of the the Muse
delays, the weasels can bereally cool. That includes, not,
(03:27):
you know, not only mink andotters, the more lovable ones,
fishers, Martins, Wolverines, sonow they start getting a little
less colier. So I think seeingany of these, these critters, on
the trail is exciting. It reallyis. Most of those critters I
just mentioned I have seen onthe trail. There's just a couple
(03:48):
that I that are still on my mustsee list. And I'm gonna break
Jennie Flaming (03:52):
in here and just say that I am terrified about
wildlife on the trail, and Ialso think it's really cool. So
if you're thinking, like, oh,this sounds so scary, like I
feel you and yeah, but I alsothink it's really cool. Okay, so
(04:13):
yeah, back to where you
Craig Romano (04:13):
were, Craig. So back. So let me tell you my
latest in when we recorded this,and in February I was down. This
is not, this is not inWashington. Though I've, I've
seen this critter in Washington,but I've only seen this critter
twice in the wild in all myhiking. So we're talking 1000s,
1000s of miles a mountain lion.
I was down in SouthernCalifornia, of all places,
(04:34):
Riverside County in a wildlifepreserve in the foothills of the
Santa Ana Mountains. Um late Iwas wonderful place hiking. I
was on a 12 mile hike. I onlyencountered three people the
entire day. So again, we talkedabout places to get away from
the crowds. And late in the day.
Sunset was at five. It was about3 45 so things are are starting
(04:55):
to get dark, which needs to.
Critters are starting to comeout. Now, coyotes all over the
place. In this Preserve. I'vebeen there before, this Coyote,
they're they're all over theplace, and you have to watch.
You got to keep those. Keep thecoyotes in safe distance, too.
We can talk about those guystoo. A lot of people worry about
wolves, but there's been acoyote attacks. But I wasn't too
(05:17):
concerned. I was watching them,but towards the end, I'm coming
in towards the trail head. I gota half mile to go, and I'm
watching this very large, brown,what I thought was a coyote,
first crossed the trail, andthen I looked at it, and it had
a long tail. It had raised hindlegs in the back, just a totally
different gait. And I'm sittingthere going, that is not a dog,
(05:39):
that's a cat. And I watched itwalk across in some high grass
and just crouched right down,just like my cat would do, this
perfect cat. And I zoomed in onmy phone. Sure enough, it was a
cougar. It was a mountain lion,and it was looking right at me.
So I think I don't know. Itcould have just been in the
grass, thinking it wascamouflaged. And and just kind
(06:00):
of staring out. I was still insafe distance somewhat. And of
course, all those feelings,Jennie, I was absolutely amazed.
Like, oh my god, it's a mountainlion. I mean, I you know,
they're out there. I've beentracked, but to see one is just
unbelievable. But the samething, it's like, Oh, my God,
it's a mountain lion
Jennie Flaming (06:22):
It's like, I'm out here. I mean, they're really
dangerous animals,
Craig Romano (06:25):
yeah, and it right? And they can be, uh,
absolutely. So I don't know ifit was a male or a female, um,
because you, you, of course, youalways want to when mamas, it's
early in the year, so it mamasdidn't have any if it wasn't
mom, I think it was a anadolescent, what, and, and it
wasn't displaying any, anyaggressive behavior. So it was
(06:48):
just kind of sitting there. Itlooked like, like my house, like
my like my cat at my house, justkind of sitting there, really
cute, like you want to go up inbed, uh, just
Jennie Flaming (06:56):
a little bigger, just only a little because your
cat is really big, but
Craig Romano (07:01):
this cat was really big. But I mean, cute. I
mean cat faces are cute. I mean,either a cat person or dog cats
are cute. Um, so, but I'mthinking I gotta get around in a
trail. I think it's just, youknow, just kind of sitting
there, just chilling, and Ijust, um, you know, kind of
talked in a low voice, kind oflooked at it, kept my eye, but
kind of lost vision of itbecause it was in the grass as I
(07:22):
got around, but I grabbed somerocks just in case, and never
turned my back on the area onand just kind of got into safe
distance. And at that point it'slike, holy cow. You know? It's
like, the heart's going, Yeah,and it's unbelievable that last
half mile coming into thetrailhead. I'm looking at
everything. Is that I'moutlined, but, yeah, absolutely
(07:45):
amazing to see one of thesethings. And again, let me just
back up. You know, whenever youmentioned Mountain Lion, people
think, Oh, my God, there's beena couple of, you know, a couple
of attacks. Is that scary? Yes,there has been a couple of tech
a couple. Think about how manymillions of people are out on
(08:07):
the trail constantly. Now, dothe math. What is your chance of
being attacked by a mountainlion? And you've got to keep
that perspective, because peoplestart free not to say Cavalier,
but your chances again. I'vehiked so much, they're out
there. It is amazing to seesomething like that that I'm not
(08:28):
worried about. People ask me allthe time, aren't you worried
about bears? No, the biggestthing I'm worried about are
unleashed aggressive dogs. I'vehad incredibly bad encounters
with them, and they scare thatthe living heck out of me. Yeah,
I had a better experience withthis, with this mountain land.
So, you know, we'll talk aboutsafety and upcoming what to do,
but that was one of my mostthrilling wildlife sightings,
(08:51):
and it was just recently. Yeah,it was incredible. But you want
to talk about bears. We havebear I've seen more bears than I
can count, and I've seenGrizzlies too, not in
Washington, closest Alberta andBritish Columbia. Sorry, Alberta
and Montana, but the Grizzliesare here in the northeastern
part of the state. And the samething, I would love to see a
(09:12):
grizzly in Washington, as longas I'm not between it her and I
would
Jennie Flaming (09:19):
I'm gonna be honest with you, I would not
like to. Well, I'm hiking. Ihave seen, yeah, you're in
Alaska hiking. It is terrifying.
I And you and I differ on this,which is why I'm glad we're
doing this episode. Um, I'm notgonna talk about Alaska wildlife
stories here, because first ofall, you can listen to my
(09:40):
podcast about Alaska if you wantto hear those. But I lived there
for a long time, for those ofyou who don't know or haven't
caught that yet, and I stillspend a lot of time there in the
summer, and that is just a wholedifferent regime in my mind. But
I think in. Washington, it iseasy for us to, like, dismiss
(10:01):
taking this stuff seriously. Andso I think, I think people tend
to be, unlike you, I thinkpeople tend to be either like,
terrified or like, this is nobig deal. I'm never going to
have an encounter. And what Itell people about Alaska, and I
think this is good advice foranywhere where you can encounter
(10:23):
wildlife, is it is incrediblyrare for a person to be attacked
by any wildlife while hiking,right? And it does happen,
right? So it's like, it'sincredibly rare, but also there
are precautions that you need totake and and you need to take it
(10:48):
seriously, and that's kind ofwhat I do. I'm scared, and I do
it anyway, and I follow theprecautions I do. My behavior is
different in Alaska, but that'sa whole other No.
Craig Romano (11:01):
And even here in the Northwest, in black bear
country. And again, black bearscan attack. And matter of fact,
most people are attacked byblack bears, not grizzly bears.
And most people, matter of fact,I think I mentioned this Jennie
before I looked this, at thestatistics where most bear
attacks occur. And matter offact, one of the the states that
(11:21):
ranks the highest for bear taxis not in the west at all. It's
in the east. It's West Virginia.
Yeah, and people, I thinksometimes people don't, yeah,
they don't take it seriously. Ialways take being in wildlife
country seriously. I'm a trailrunner. I have to look at that.
I encountered a grizzly bearwhile I was trail running in
Alberta. So you've got to that'sscary. It was, it was, it was
(11:42):
very intense, incrediblyintense. So you always gotta,
you always have to be smartabout these things. But to me,
again, this is the things I livefor. Yeah, it's just again, you
can be over the caution, I I'mterrified, and then you don't
get nearly the experience again.
You know, just don't leave yourhouse if you're worried. Because
(12:03):
the again, I've said this overand over again, and I'm not
diminishing fear. What the mostdangerous thing I do on every
hike is drive to the trailhead.
I'm absolutely terrified on iFive. I would rather be out in
grizzly country. Yeah, I Yes,but in grizzly country, um, I am
taking precautions. Andespecially when I'm hiking in
British Columbia, I've got bearspray on me. There are trails
(12:24):
you shouldn't be alone. I'm notrunning, you know, I'm looking
at the reports. You definitelyyou have to be smart. But again,
if you see a grizzly, and if yousee a grizzly in Washington,
it's going to be incredible,because there aren't that many
of them here, so And likewise,wolves, that's another wolves.
I've had a couple Wolf Wolfencounters. My very first,
(12:45):
matter of fact, again, this alot of people, my very first
encounter wolves was not in theWest. Was in the east. It was on
Isle Royal National Park, whichis Michigan, which is in Lake
Superior. And I'll tell you,there's nothing so magical to be
set up camp and you're listeningto loons going off, and all
sudden, adding to the loons arethe wolves Halloween. Yeah. And
(13:06):
so, um, when I moved out here in1989 there were no wolves in
Washington. There was thiscouple. We have a lot of wolf
packs. Now the wolves have comeback into the area. It is really
exciting. And in all the years,I've still not yet seen a wolf
in Washington, although acouple. I haven't either, and I
know people have, and I've hadpeople show me pictures of them,
(13:27):
and it's amazing where they'reat. But for the first time, a
couple years ago, I got to hearwolves Holling in Washington,
and they were really close. Iwas in the Loomis State Forest,
which is near OMAC in that area,and which is where a lot of
there's a lot of packs in thatarea. And it was just incredible
to be out there and know, oh mygod, there's wolves out here.
(13:48):
This is how cool is that? Yeah,so I think wolves and grizzly
bears and Cougars are probablythe ones that people fear the
most. Yeah, and it's gonna beincredibly rare if you see one.
But if you do, you know, afteryour heart goes through the roof
and you sweat and you know,yeah, if you check your
underwear withyou're going to be like, Wow,
(14:09):
that was an amazing experience.
Jennie Flaming (14:13):
one time in North Cascades National Park on
the thunder Creek Trail. I wasbackpacking there with a friend
of mine, and we did not see agrizzly bear. However, we did
see grizzly bear scat, really.
That was, yes, that was quitefresh, and we decided that we
had actually several more milesin us before camping. Not that
(14:38):
that matters, because a grizzlybear can cover that ground. Oh,
god yes. But we were like, we'renot camping next to the fresh
scat. That's not happening, eventhough there's probably no
reason to worry. And that's
Craig Romano (14:54):
again, when you're looking at things you and you
again to experience you party.
When I'm camping in bearcountry, this is just basically,
you should do this. You don'tcook, you don't cook anywhere
near your tent. You keep yourcamp. And this is, these are
things, especially grizzlycountry, but even in black bear
country. And the other thing toois, yeah, if you come across
fresh carry on, or an area wherethere's fresh tracks or a lot of
(15:16):
that's probably not going to bea good place to camp. Um, so you
gotta, you gotta know thesethings. Mostly one time,
Jennie Flaming (15:25):
Jay and I were camping at second beach in
Olympic National Park. Greatbeginner backpacking trip, by
the way, because it's so it'sshort, it's mostly flat. It's
like, you can bring a lot ofstuff, because you're not going
that far. Anyway. That's awonderful place to camp. I love
(15:46):
it out there anyway. So Jay andI had set up our tent and
watched this beautiful sunset,went to bed and in the morning.
And, you know, Jay grew up inYellowstone. This is my husband.
We're talking about, right? Sohe has been party to, not, not
involved in, but like close tomany bad bear situations,
(16:11):
Yellowstone is a place that has,like glacier, that has a history
of of problems between humansand problem
Craig Romano (16:18):
problem people.
That's that's crazy situations.
Yes.
Jennie Flaming (16:21):
So anyway, um, in the morning, there were black
bear paw prints in the sand allaround the tent, not encircling
it, but like, very close to it.
And I was like, ah, like, wenever saw, I have seen quite a
few black bears in Washington.
(16:42):
We didn't see that one, but thewind had shifted and there was a
seal carcass. Oh, wow, like 50feet away, but we hadn't noticed
it, because it was like wewalked up from one side, we set
up the tent, then we walked theother way, but we were down
closer to the water, and thewind was blowing the other way,
(17:05):
so we didn't notice it. But thenin the morning, we're like, oh,
this was a really bad choice ofwhere to set up. Our going to
what you were saying about thecare, you know, yeah, not that
no one wants to camp near a deadanimal, but like, that isn't a
place you want to hang out. Thatthat's an issue. Usually could
Craig Romano (17:24):
smell dead, because, I tell you, Jay, you're
talking about the coast, and I'mdiverting a little but the
absolute worst thing that I'veever smelled, maybe we'll do a
chapter on this, a podcast. Theworst thing I've ever smelled in
the wild is a dead whale. It isthe most foul. Oh, my God, it
is. It is, yeah, it's rancid.
It's awful. I think it scaresthe bears away too. I mean, it's
awful. I
Jennie Flaming (17:45):
don't know. I mean, I'm gonna say that a seal,
you're right. We should do anepisode about this. Um, maybe.
But around Halloween,
Unknown (17:54):
okay, dead whales are just
Jennie Flaming (17:57):
things. Kind
Craig Romano (17:58):
of a dead horse on the trail once too, and they
don't smell nice either. Oh no,yeah, that's another
Jennie Flaming (18:02):
anyway, the seal was like, up there. It was
pretty intense, and it wasamazing, because the when the
wind shifted, we could totallysmell it, but we couldn't sell
it before. Anyway, yeah,
Unknown (18:14):
so, yeah, grocery store to this guy. So yeah, again. But
most wildlife, they don't wantto encounter you. They're doing
everything to stay away fromyou. And again, your better
chances of seeing wildlife.
Again, it's going to be on moreremote areas or in busy areas
during quieter time. So soagain, later in the in most
while it's more active, later inthe day, early in the morning,
(18:36):
Yep, those are always and again,I spend a lot of time on the
trails during these periods, andI spend time alone on the trail,
so I'm not talking, so I'mquiet. If you're with a group
and you're taught, I mean, Imean, people have never seen a
bear in the wild because they'realways out in groups and they're
talking, yeah? So again, if youdon't want to see wildlife,
there's all kinds of things youcan do not to see them. But if
you do, yeah, there's whenyou're on the trail, and also
(18:58):
the behavior and being down.
Same thing with the cougar. Iwas by myself end of the day,
and I was downwind also, yeah,so all these things, he just
launched. He or she justnonchalantly walked across the
trail, not even knowing I wasthere. Because normally they
wouldn't. They don't want to.
They they don't want to bespotted, you know, right? So
I'll tell you, we're talkingabout thunder Creek, which is
(19:19):
interesting in that area,because I had my first encounter
of this type of animal in thisarea. Again, we don't think
about I've had lots ofencounters of this type of
animal back East. Again, moose.
Moose are all over the placewhere I grew up, in the
Northeast. So I've known how tohow to hike around moose,
because moose can be dangeroustoo, especially during the rut,
(19:41):
I was trail running in a fourthof July pass, and I'm going up
the trail, and all sudden, herecomes what I thought was an elk
coming down the trail. It wasnot an elk, it was a young
moose, and it wasn't going toyield the trail to me. So I
Jennie Flaming (19:56):
like to they're like, I'm sorry. I had
Craig Romano (19:59):
to. Pop off the trail, get down. And one thing I
know about moose. Moose haveterrible eyesight, so I got
behind trees and just kind ofgot out of its sight and let it
go through so moose, and I'veseen bull moose during the rut
out in the Okanagan. They're allover northeastern Washington.
Moose population has beengrowing in this area. They are
(20:19):
always exciting to see. They'rehuge. Elk are incredible. But if
you think elk are big, wait, TC,a moose, yeah. I mean, some of
the big I've seen, and samething, Alaska's got some giant
bull moose out there,subspecies. But the moose out
here are pretty big too. They'reexciting. I have seen caribou,
not here in Washington. We hadwoodland caribou that no longer
live in the state,unfortunately. So that would,
(20:42):
that would get they're exciting.
I hope we get to those by Haveyou seen caribou in Alaska?
Jennie, yeah, yeah, cariboucool, yeah. I actually, yes,
yeah. I saw in Quebec. TheSouthern, most southern, most
fascinating. They're cool. Theyhave terrible eyesight too.
Yeah.
Jennie Flaming (20:58):
Craig, while we're talking about ungulates,
can we talk about elk a littlebit? Yes, I know. Was it last
spring, they or winter that youhad the elk encounter that you
showed me the photo where itkind of see, it was like in on
the Olympic Peninsula somewhere.
It wasn't ringing a bell, okay,
Craig Romano (21:18):
yes, and that was a big bull elk coming down in
the in the whole rate where weare hiking the Snyder Jackson
Trail, which is a very obscuretrail which connects the whole
watershed to the Buchawatershed. The trail is used
more by elk going back and forthbetween the watershed. And here
we are hiking up. It was one ofthe biggest bull bull elk I've
(21:41):
seen come right down the trailand we stopped. It was, I
switched back, and we yelled alot, and it was not going to
yield. It was like, I'm comingdown, you guys, and we're in a
very, very steep slope. Yeah. Sowe had to keep target and hike
off the trail to let this thingget by us. Well,
Jennie Flaming (21:56):
because if it wants to just go and trample
you, then it will,
Craig Romano (21:59):
it will, it will.
So, yeah, it was, it was quite,it was quite thrilling. It was
amazing, again, amazing to seeit, but you have to keep a safe
distance and talk. And we gotout of the way. And you, you've
got to, you know, you're notgoing to sit there and win
against the big bull elk. Andusually that's when you have to
(22:21):
be more most concerned about,about elk and moose, is that
obviously, any, any mom with thelittle ones, but this is, this
is a horny male elk coming downthe trail, right?
Jennie Flaming (22:38):
And, like, you don't you really need to, like,
move over,
Craig Romano (22:41):
yeah, has one thing on his mind, because,
yeah, he only hits thisopportunity for about two weeks
out of the year, right? Andyou're not going to disrupt this
Jennie Flaming (22:51):
process. You are not, and you can.
Craig Romano (22:54):
So it's better than we do not want to mess up
the order of the
Jennie Flaming (22:58):
world, okay, Craig, I want to know what your
favorite animal is to see inWashington while you're hiking?
Yeah, I will also answer, and Ithink it might surprise you.
Craig Romano (23:09):
Well, bears are definitely but also mountain
goats are always fun to see. Oh,yeah, and you
Jennie Flaming (23:17):
know, dangerous friends, if you're listening,
don't, don't screw around withmountain goats. They can really
hurt you. So all of these thingsabout keeping your distance and
giving away to them veryimportant for goats, just
because they're smaller, theyhave very pointy horns,
Craig Romano (23:35):
right? And both the male and the female both do,
yeah. Um, anyway, yeah. Andagain, we're a part of the
country. You know, mountaingoats aren't as widespread as
some of these other creatures Iwas talking about, so it's very,
very thrilling to see them.
They're in parts of the Rockiesin the northwest. One of my very
first hikes when I came out herein the summer of 1985 I was
absolutely thrilled to death,because it was my very first
(23:55):
hike in the North Cascades, andI encountered four mountain
goats, and I was just beyondmyself, because to me, that was
like the North Cascades mountaingrowth. Yeah, they're cool. But
some of the smaller critters,which I have not seen enough,
pine Martins, have got to be oneof the cutest critters on the
planet. They are. I've only seenpine Martins, maybe three or
four times, fishers. Same thing.
(24:16):
They're a little nastier thanthe pine Martin, but they're
cute. Those are cool. I loveseeing those otters. Love
watching otters. Otters arealways fun. Fun to watch. Um,
big horn sheep are cool. We havethose in Washington on the east
side of the Cascades and in thenorth northeast part of the
state, they are very, very, verycool. Um, bobcats. Bobcats are
(24:38):
cool. Uh, I've only seen onebobcat.
Jennie Flaming (24:41):
I've never seen one in this one,
Craig Romano (24:43):
yeah. And you're in every state. I think, I think
they're in every state. They'rethey're so widespread. My mom's
has them in her backyard, andyet, like, to me, it's like, Did
I see one? I've not seen thelinks yet. That's still on my
hit list. Yeah. But those aresome of my favorites. Wait,
What? What? But I guess Ithey're all my face. I
Jennie Flaming (25:02):
was gonna say you didn't give a favorite,
Craig, let's try again. Oh,Craig, what is your favorite
animal to see hiking inWashington? Oh, man,
Craig Romano (25:13):
probably bears. I love bears. That was kind of
what you started to say. Okay,how about you? I'm well before I
Jennie Flaming (25:21):
answer, I wanted to mention that when you were
talking about goats, there areparts of Olympic National Park
and also, like the centralcascades for people who are
looking to see goats, like LakeEngle the lake Engels trail,
it's very popular, but there,that's a I think I've never been
there without seeing, yeah,goats. And, you know, you've got
(25:44):
to keep your distance from thatthere. We've had too many
triskets, and
Craig Romano (25:50):
we should do a podcast on goats, because I can
some of the best places. I'vegot lots of suggestions of we're
almost guaranteed not just see acouple, but see, you know,
scores of them,
Jennie Flaming (26:01):
yeah. Um, okay, so, okay, my, if you want to
know my favorite, okay, myabsolute favorite animal to see
on the trail in Washington isthe pica.
Craig Romano (26:16):
You know, it's funny. I didn't even think of
the pica. Um, what a riot. Theyare cute. They're amazingly
cute. Usually hear them beforeyou see them, if you see them at
all. Yes, they are adorable,especially when they've got a
whole bunch of Lupin in yourmouth.
Jennie Flaming (26:29):
Yes. But, you know, I think the reason why I
love seeing pika so much isbecause you hear them all the
time. Yeah, right. No. I mean,if you're around rocks and it's
above, like 3000 feet, you'reprobably gonna hear a pika, but
seeing them doesn't happen thatoften. I mean, they're so small,
(26:50):
yeah, and they go into and outof their little holes so quickly
that I think it just reallyfeels like a treat to see a
pica. They are cute,
Craig Romano (27:01):
and I know some by far, yeah, and you said, usually
don't see him. I remembersitting taking breaks by by a
talus slope, and really quietand a pica, unbeknownst that
that I'm sitting there haspopped his head right up. I
mean, I've got some great closeup shots, because I've been in
that situation where it justpopped up, not even knowing that
I was there. Um, here's alittle, little known fact about
(27:25):
pika. You may know it. And ofcourse, this is definitely boy
humor. We love it. Pikas are twoeaters. They eat their own dung.
So we love my son. I got a 10year old son. That's always a
great topic to talk about.
Jennie Flaming (27:38):
Oh, yeah, there's nothing better than
talking about poop with 10 girls
Craig Romano (27:43):
eats its own dung, you know, so love it. But they
are. They're definitely
Jennie Flaming (27:49):
cute, yeah. I mean, I do. I also the most of
the times, except for one thatI've seen black bears here have
been at a bit of a distancewhere it was, like, not scary at
all. Like, one place is spraypark in Mount Rainier, I've seen
bears there. That's one of myfavorite hikes in Washington.
(28:10):
And I've seen bears there quitea few times. And same in Olympic
National Park at hurricane Hill,which is a very popular area,
but, like, I've seen him there,yeah, yeah, if you're hiking up
the trail there, there's like, abig meadow kind of off to your
right and below, and especiallyearly in the day, early in the
(28:33):
summer, I've seen black bearthere, I think, three times. So
that's quite a few. Um, and thatthat's not, that's awesome and
not scary, because they're, ohyeah, they're way, they're
focused on something else.
You're, you're, you know, when Isay further away, I mean, like a
half mile or more, like, notclose, but you see, fine when
you're almost.
Craig Romano (28:56):
All my bear encounters have not been scary.
The thing is, what you have toknow again, same thing, the
bears, again, never get betweenmom and the Cubs. And the other
thing, if there's, I usually seea lot of bears in the fall,
which is one of the best times,because that's when they're
very, very active. They'rethey're fattening up for
hibernation, and the berry cropsare there, and if they got their
(29:18):
head buried in the berries.
They're usually not thatinterested. I always joke.
They're not interested inItalian food. They're they've
got the berries. So one of my Iwas in backpacking the Olympics
in Lake La Crosse basin, whichis a unbelievable area. 13 of I
saw 13 bears on one hike. That'smy record. That's amazing. It's
incredible. And they were allgreat. And kind of me, they're
(29:40):
all they they were just alleating. And they could care, you
know, they they didn't care.
That was out there, one of themost unique bear stories I had.
You'll love this one same thingwas in the fall, they're almost
all that was on coming down fromShaffer Lake. This is over in
the Chihuahua area, all bymyself coming down. I looked at
the side of the trail, andthat's a half. The Bear. I saw
(30:01):
half the bear. What it is. Ijust saw the rump. Its head was
in the ground.
Jennie Flaming (30:07):
Yeah, so you really got to be careful there,
because you don't want tostartle it. Well, this really
bad. You're,
Craig Romano (30:13):
you're definitely on my story, right? So realizing
that I'm very, very close,because it's right there off the
side of the trail. He's got hishead in the ground because it
broke. And I said, I betterclap. Let this bear know I'm
there. So I clapped. All sudden,he pops his head up, and you
could see all the yellow jacketsswarming. He was in, he was in a
(30:33):
he was in a a nest, in a combbecause, you know, trying to get
eating. And soon as thathappened, he took off running
down the hill. And I always liketo joke, you watch the old
cartoons, it was like all theyellow jackets were forming an
arrow, just like it was thecraziest thing to see this bear
pop its head out of out of theground, and then the swarm
(30:55):
around it, and it took off. Butagain, it was a younger one, and
I think I can't remember if Italked about this. Usually the
bears, you see the most are theyoung males, because the bear,
the bears, will stay with momfor two years, and it's on the
third year, they're on theirown. And lots of times they
still don't get it that that's ahuman being. You're not supposed
(31:16):
to be near them, because some ofthem carry guns, you know, and
they're going to hunt you. Solots of times when I've
encountered a lot, are usually ajuvenile bear out there, kind of
just figuring out that you don'tknow yet you're supposed to be
afraid of me. So so that thattends to be most of my
encounter, but I, but I havedefinitely encountered mom in
times and and you gotta bereally careful in that
(31:39):
situation. Yeah, really do. Butagain, it's thrilling. I know
we've talked, I think it'samazing to see bears in a while,
and I've seen so many bears, andI always, I find it's just one
of the most exciting, excitingencounters, so in places you
least expect it to I mean, it'samazing. Sometimes I was down in
(31:59):
last spring Long Beach will atthe bay. Matter of fact, I found
it after Mary. It has one of thehighest bear densities in the
state. So again, you know,people are thinking in the
Cascades, this is in matter offact, one of the hills, the hill
range, right outside. It'scalled the bear range. The bear
Yeah, bear mount, yeah. Um, veryappropriate, yeah. Even led
(32:20):
better point, which is the tipof Long Beach. So you're in this
bears. They're all over theplace in there. The habitat is
absolutely perfect for them.
They have the apex species inthere. So food, lots of lots of
food. So the bear population ispretty healthy. The black bear
populate pretty healthy in thispart of the country. And
actually in many part, I've seenbears in Florida. Same thing
people, they're they're outthere. So always exciting. So
(32:42):
when we talk about wildlife,though, what about the stuff
that's not so cuddly? Do you doyou consider things like, I know
Jennie, you love these things?
Snakes?
Jennie Flaming (32:56):
Sure. I Well, I'm okay with snakes. It's
spiders and spiders. I'm finewith snakes. So I don't want to
get bit by a snake, but I dothink it is pretty cool to see
rattlesnakes on EasternWashington. Yeah, hikes. I mean,
it's a little scary, but it'salso, you know, I pay extra
(33:20):
attention to my like footwear inthose situations. And you know,
if I have my dog with me, whichI don't hike with him that
often, but if there is snakesaround, I am like, extra careful
to keep his lease short and nextto me so he doesn't try to
tingle with a snake or
Craig Romano (33:40):
absolutely and it's another thing that the
bears in Cougars people areterrified around. And again,
it's one of those. I've hiked somany miles in the state, and I
can, I can count, you know, ontwo hands how many rattlesnake
encounters have had, and they'veall been fine. They're always
startling. The northern Pacificrattlesnake is docile for
rattlesnakes, maybe we should doa whole podcast on rattlesnakes
(34:04):
and snakes. So it's cool whenyou see a rattle, it's a good
idea, yeah, and talk about kindof demystify. And I actually had
an encounter very cool. I wentout with some Parks Canada
wildlife biologist to a nationalpark in in Eastern Canada to
catch a rare, endangeredrattlesnake. And we got to do
all kinds very cool. So ratnakesare cool, but the coolest, by
(34:24):
far, the coolest snake inWashington that I love
encountering, and I've onlyencountered maybe three or four
times, the rubber boa. Therubber boa is a cool thing. Is
cuddly. It looks like a toy.
It's not cuddly. It looks like arubber snake. So
Jennie Flaming (34:42):
for what I'm gonna guess is 99% of people
listening who have no idea whata rubber boa is. Where do we
have them? In Washington? What'stheir habitat?
Craig Romano (34:53):
I've seen it mostly on the east slope of the
Cascades and in the ColumbiaRiver Gorge. I've not seen one
on the west side, though, I needto check they may be. Here, but
I've never seen one here.
They're a constrictor. They'rereally they're, they're, they're
a docile constrictor. They are anative. They're one of two
native constrictors in NorthAmerica. The other one is Rosie
boa. I love the name that whenyou Rosie's down in Arizona, in
California, and rubbers up here.
(35:16):
But the first time I saw one, Iswear I came it was right on the
trail, and then wasn't moving. Ithought, God, some kid lost his
rubber snake. And you realizethat's a rubber boa, and it's
rear end looks like a face aswell, because it's to to to
thwart predators, because it'sso docile, it doesn't have
venom, it doesn't bite. So ifsomething's trying to sneak up
(35:39):
behind, it looks like it's hisface. So I'm not quite sure I
have to do my research. Who eatsthose? Probably, you know,
eagles and things like that,yeah? But they're, they're very,
very docile, very, very cool,and they're constrictors. So
that's how they get their food.
They're gonna, they're gonnawrap around it. But if you
picked one up, it's not, it'snot like a Burmese python, it's
like
Jennie Flaming (35:58):
nothing. Yeah, true. Um, also, if you're
listening and you're like, Whatabout birds? We're gonna do a
vcu, and we'll do a differentepisode about birds. Um, because
this is already a lot withoutbirds, there's
Craig Romano (36:15):
so many. Well, yeah, talking about my favorite
amphibians. I mean, I
Jennie Flaming (36:20):
love, yeah, yeah, we could. We could go a
lot of places with birds, and we
Unknown (36:24):
have been talking about marine mammals too, I know,
Jennie Flaming (36:28):
but we're gonna do another we're gonna do a
separate episode about thatalso. So if you're into wildlife
and hiking and animals, we willhave more episodes for you along
these lines, and
Craig Romano (36:42):
we'd love to hear some of your encounters, and
want to hear about your bearencounters. Have you seen the
links? Yes, tell us. And Cougarsalways love hearing about
Jennie Flaming (36:50):
about mountains.
Yeah, yes. Awesome. Okay, soonce again, if you're listening,
if you love the pod, we wouldlove to have you rate us and
review us that helps otherpeople find it, and also just a
reminder, if you're bookingtravel and you're going to book
through Expedia, or you'rebuying something through Rei,
(37:10):
use the link in our show notes,and that will help support the
podcast and won't cost youanything beyond What you're
already spending so thank youfor being here. Thank you for
listening, and bye for now. Hieveryone. This is Jennie. I hope
you enjoyed this episode, Craig,and I love bringing these
(37:32):
episodes to you, and I want toremind you about how you can
support the podcast, you canleave us a tip or purchase
Craig's books or sign up for myemail list, and in addition to
that, we have our affiliate linkfor Expedia and Rei in the show
notes. So if you are making apurchase from one of those
(37:53):
places and you follow the linkthat we always have in the show
notes, then we will receive asmall commission, and that helps
us keep things going. So thankyou so much for your support,
and thank you for listening.
Jennie, welcome to the Washington State hiking
podcast. I'm your host. JennieThwing Flaming,
Unknown (00:10):
and I'm your co host.
Craig Romano, Craig
Jennie Flaming (00:12):
and I are happy to have you here. We provide
practical and timely, seasonalhiking advice for hikers, trail
runners and potential hikers andtrail runners of all skill and
ability levels that is helpful,accurate, fun and inclusive.
Hey, Craig, how's it going?
Craig Romano (00:32):
Good. Good. You know, I just had one of the most
amazing experiences on one of myrecent hikes that I'm just dying
to talk about.
Jennie Flaming (00:40):
Okay, so, yeah.
So for everybody listening,we're going to talk about
wildlife encounters on hikes inWashington with this episode.
And I want to just start bysaying, like some safety related
things will come up, but that'snot really the topic. So we are
going to do another episodeabout wildlife safety, but this
(01:02):
one is more for Craig and I tojust share some of our wildlife
encounters, and we would love tohear from you. We've got that
option to text us, so we wouldlove to hear about your wildlife
story, I can't respond to thattext, so unless you like, put in
(01:23):
your email address. So but wecould talk about it on a future
episode, which would be reallyfun. And if you have questions
about wildlife safety, that'd bea great place to put them also.
And then in a future episode,when we talk about that, we can
address those. Okay, Craig, solet's, let's talk about, first
(01:45):
of all, what are some of theanimals that people can
encounter on trails? Oh,
Craig Romano (01:52):
where do you want me to start? So, so to start up
to me, one of the most excitingthings about being on the trail
is the chance, the opportunity,you never know, of encountering
a wild critter. And of course,we usually see the little guys.
So the mega fauna is what I livefor. And so I've encountered in
(02:16):
my hiking some, a lot of megafauna, and a lot of right here
in Washington. So what do I wantto talk about? And again, it
depends on who you are and howyou run. You might be absolutely
terrified to encounter one ofthese, or you like me, it's just
Wow, amazing. So we're talkingall your unglets, you know, your
(02:40):
deer, but then you get the bigguys, the moose, you know, the
elk, those guys, we can talkabout the cats, bobcats, links,
mountain lions, cougars, right?
The canines, coyotes, wolves,foxes, things like big horn
sheep, mountain goats, you know?
Oh, am I leaving out any of themega fauna here,
Jennie Flaming (03:04):
bears you're leaving. So
Craig Romano (03:06):
how can I leave out bears? I know bears, of
course, you know which I've seenmore bears than I can possibly
count, and that includes blackbears and grizzly bears in this
part of the of the country. Sodefinitely want to talk about
some of these guys. But youknow, some of the the Muse
delays, the weasels can bereally cool. That includes, not,
(03:27):
you know, not only mink andotters, the more lovable ones,
fishers, Martins, Wolverines, sonow they start getting a little
less colier. So I think seeingany of these, these critters, on
the trail is exciting. It reallyis. Most of those critters I
just mentioned I have seen onthe trail. There's just a couple
(03:48):
that I that are still on my mustsee list. And I'm gonna break
Jennie Flaming (03:52):
in here and just say that I am terrified about
wildlife on the trail, and Ialso think it's really cool. So
if you're thinking, like, oh,this sounds so scary, like I
feel you and yeah, but I alsothink it's really cool. Okay, so
(04:13):
yeah, back to where you
Craig Romano (04:13):
were, Craig. So back. So let me tell you my
latest in when we recorded this,and in February I was down. This
is not, this is not inWashington. Though I've, I've
seen this critter in Washington,but I've only seen this critter
twice in the wild in all myhiking. So we're talking 1000s,
1000s of miles a mountain lion.
I was down in SouthernCalifornia, of all places,
(04:34):
Riverside County in a wildlifepreserve in the foothills of the
Santa Ana Mountains. Um late Iwas wonderful place hiking. I
was on a 12 mile hike. I onlyencountered three people the
entire day. So again, we talkedabout places to get away from
the crowds. And late in the day.
Sunset was at five. It was about3 45 so things are are starting
(04:55):
to get dark, which needs to.
Critters are starting to comeout. Now, coyotes all over the
place. In this Preserve. I'vebeen there before, this Coyote,
they're they're all over theplace, and you have to watch.
You got to keep those. Keep thecoyotes in safe distance, too.
We can talk about those guystoo. A lot of people worry about
wolves, but there's been acoyote attacks. But I wasn't too
(05:17):
concerned. I was watching them,but towards the end, I'm coming
in towards the trail head. I gota half mile to go, and I'm
watching this very large, brown,what I thought was a coyote,
first crossed the trail, andthen I looked at it, and it had
a long tail. It had raised hindlegs in the back, just a totally
different gait. And I'm sittingthere going, that is not a dog,
(05:39):
that's a cat. And I watched itwalk across in some high grass
and just crouched right down,just like my cat would do, this
perfect cat. And I zoomed in onmy phone. Sure enough, it was a
cougar. It was a mountain lion,and it was looking right at me.
So I think I don't know. Itcould have just been in the
grass, thinking it wascamouflaged. And and just kind
(06:00):
of staring out. I was still insafe distance somewhat. And of
course, all those feelings,Jennie, I was absolutely amazed.
Like, oh my god, it's a mountainlion. I mean, I you know,
they're out there. I've beentracked, but to see one is just
unbelievable. But the samething, it's like, Oh, my God,
it's a mountain lion
Jennie Flaming (06:22):
It's like, I'm out here. I mean, they're really
dangerous animals,
Craig Romano (06:25):
yeah, and it right? And they can be, uh,
absolutely. So I don't know ifit was a male or a female, um,
because you, you, of course, youalways want to when mamas, it's
early in the year, so it mamasdidn't have any if it wasn't
mom, I think it was a anadolescent, what, and, and it
wasn't displaying any, anyaggressive behavior. So it was
(06:48):
just kind of sitting there. Itlooked like, like my house, like
my like my cat at my house, justkind of sitting there, really
cute, like you want to go up inbed, uh, just
Jennie Flaming (06:56):
a little bigger, just only a little because your
cat is really big, but
Craig Romano (07:01):
this cat was really big. But I mean, cute. I
mean cat faces are cute. I mean,either a cat person or dog cats
are cute. Um, so, but I'mthinking I gotta get around in a
trail. I think it's just, youknow, just kind of sitting
there, just chilling, and Ijust, um, you know, kind of
talked in a low voice, kind oflooked at it, kept my eye, but
kind of lost vision of itbecause it was in the grass as I
(07:22):
got around, but I grabbed somerocks just in case, and never
turned my back on the area onand just kind of got into safe
distance. And at that point it'slike, holy cow. You know? It's
like, the heart's going, Yeah,and it's unbelievable that last
half mile coming into thetrailhead. I'm looking at
everything. Is that I'moutlined, but, yeah, absolutely
(07:45):
amazing to see one of thesethings. And again, let me just
back up. You know, whenever youmentioned Mountain Lion, people
think, Oh, my God, there's beena couple of, you know, a couple
of attacks. Is that scary? Yes,there has been a couple of tech
a couple. Think about how manymillions of people are out on
(08:07):
the trail constantly. Now, dothe math. What is your chance of
being attacked by a mountainlion? And you've got to keep
that perspective, because peoplestart free not to say Cavalier,
but your chances again. I'vehiked so much, they're out
there. It is amazing to seesomething like that that I'm not
(08:28):
worried about. People ask me allthe time, aren't you worried
about bears? No, the biggestthing I'm worried about are
unleashed aggressive dogs. I'vehad incredibly bad encounters
with them, and they scare thatthe living heck out of me. Yeah,
I had a better experience withthis, with this mountain land.
So, you know, we'll talk aboutsafety and upcoming what to do,
but that was one of my mostthrilling wildlife sightings,
(08:51):
and it was just recently. Yeah,it was incredible. But you want
to talk about bears. We havebear I've seen more bears than I
can count, and I've seenGrizzlies too, not in
Washington, closest Alberta andBritish Columbia. Sorry, Alberta
and Montana, but the Grizzliesare here in the northeastern
part of the state. And the samething, I would love to see a
(09:12):
grizzly in Washington, as longas I'm not between it her and I
would
Jennie Flaming (09:19):
I'm gonna be honest with you, I would not
like to. Well, I'm hiking. Ihave seen, yeah, you're in
Alaska hiking. It is terrifying.
I And you and I differ on this,which is why I'm glad we're
doing this episode. Um, I'm notgonna talk about Alaska wildlife
stories here, because first ofall, you can listen to my
(09:40):
podcast about Alaska if you wantto hear those. But I lived there
for a long time, for those ofyou who don't know or haven't
caught that yet, and I stillspend a lot of time there in the
summer, and that is just a wholedifferent regime in my mind. But
I think in. Washington, it iseasy for us to, like, dismiss
(10:01):
taking this stuff seriously. Andso I think, I think people tend
to be, unlike you, I thinkpeople tend to be either like,
terrified or like, this is nobig deal. I'm never going to
have an encounter. And what Itell people about Alaska, and I
think this is good advice foranywhere where you can encounter
(10:23):
wildlife, is it is incrediblyrare for a person to be attacked
by any wildlife while hiking,right? And it does happen,
right? So it's like, it'sincredibly rare, but also there
are precautions that you need totake and and you need to take it
(10:48):
seriously, and that's kind ofwhat I do. I'm scared, and I do
it anyway, and I follow theprecautions I do. My behavior is
different in Alaska, but that'sa whole other No.
Craig Romano (11:01):
And even here in the Northwest, in black bear
country. And again, black bearscan attack. And matter of fact,
most people are attacked byblack bears, not grizzly bears.
And most people, matter of fact,I think I mentioned this Jennie
before I looked this, at thestatistics where most bear
attacks occur. And matter offact, one of the the states that
(11:21):
ranks the highest for bear taxis not in the west at all. It's
in the east. It's West Virginia.
Yeah, and people, I thinksometimes people don't, yeah,
they don't take it seriously. Ialways take being in wildlife
country seriously. I'm a trailrunner. I have to look at that.
I encountered a grizzly bearwhile I was trail running in
Alberta. So you've got to that'sscary. It was, it was, it was
(11:42):
very intense, incrediblyintense. So you always gotta,
you always have to be smartabout these things. But to me,
again, this is the things I livefor. Yeah, it's just again, you
can be over the caution, I I'mterrified, and then you don't
get nearly the experience again.
You know, just don't leave yourhouse if you're worried. Because
(12:03):
the again, I've said this overand over again, and I'm not
diminishing fear. What the mostdangerous thing I do on every
hike is drive to the trailhead.
I'm absolutely terrified on iFive. I would rather be out in
grizzly country. Yeah, I Yes,but in grizzly country, um, I am
taking precautions. Andespecially when I'm hiking in
British Columbia, I've got bearspray on me. There are trails
(12:24):
you shouldn't be alone. I'm notrunning, you know, I'm looking
at the reports. You definitelyyou have to be smart. But again,
if you see a grizzly, and if yousee a grizzly in Washington,
it's going to be incredible,because there aren't that many
of them here, so And likewise,wolves, that's another wolves.
I've had a couple Wolf Wolfencounters. My very first,
(12:45):
matter of fact, again, this alot of people, my very first
encounter wolves was not in theWest. Was in the east. It was on
Isle Royal National Park, whichis Michigan, which is in Lake
Superior. And I'll tell you,there's nothing so magical to be
set up camp and you're listeningto loons going off, and all
sudden, adding to the loons arethe wolves Halloween. Yeah. And
(13:06):
so, um, when I moved out here in1989 there were no wolves in
Washington. There was thiscouple. We have a lot of wolf
packs. Now the wolves have comeback into the area. It is really
exciting. And in all the years,I've still not yet seen a wolf
in Washington, although acouple. I haven't either, and I
know people have, and I've hadpeople show me pictures of them,
(13:27):
and it's amazing where they'reat. But for the first time, a
couple years ago, I got to hearwolves Holling in Washington,
and they were really close. Iwas in the Loomis State Forest,
which is near OMAC in that area,and which is where a lot of
there's a lot of packs in thatarea. And it was just incredible
to be out there and know, oh mygod, there's wolves out here.
(13:48):
This is how cool is that? Yeah,so I think wolves and grizzly
bears and Cougars are probablythe ones that people fear the
most. Yeah, and it's gonna beincredibly rare if you see one.
But if you do, you know, afteryour heart goes through the roof
and you sweat and you know,yeah, if you check your
underwear withyou're going to be like, Wow,
(14:09):
that was an amazing experience.
Jennie Flaming (14:13):
one time in North Cascades National Park on
the thunder Creek Trail. I wasbackpacking there with a friend
of mine, and we did not see agrizzly bear. However, we did
see grizzly bear scat, really.
That was, yes, that was quitefresh, and we decided that we
had actually several more milesin us before camping. Not that
(14:38):
that matters, because a grizzlybear can cover that ground. Oh,
god yes. But we were like, we'renot camping next to the fresh
scat. That's not happening, eventhough there's probably no
reason to worry. And that's
Craig Romano (14:54):
again, when you're looking at things you and you
again to experience you party.
When I'm camping in bearcountry, this is just basically,
you should do this. You don'tcook, you don't cook anywhere
near your tent. You keep yourcamp. And this is, these are
things, especially grizzlycountry, but even in black bear
country. And the other thing toois, yeah, if you come across
fresh carry on, or an area wherethere's fresh tracks or a lot of
(15:16):
that's probably not going to bea good place to camp. Um, so you
gotta, you gotta know thesethings. Mostly one time,
Jennie Flaming (15:25):
Jay and I were camping at second beach in
Olympic National Park. Greatbeginner backpacking trip, by
the way, because it's so it'sshort, it's mostly flat. It's
like, you can bring a lot ofstuff, because you're not going
that far. Anyway. That's awonderful place to camp. I love
(15:46):
it out there anyway. So Jay andI had set up our tent and
watched this beautiful sunset,went to bed and in the morning.
And, you know, Jay grew up inYellowstone. This is my husband.
We're talking about, right? Sohe has been party to, not, not
involved in, but like close tomany bad bear situations,
(16:11):
Yellowstone is a place that has,like glacier, that has a history
of of problems between humansand problem
Craig Romano (16:18):
problem people.
That's that's crazy situations.
Yes.
Jennie Flaming (16:21):
So anyway, um, in the morning, there were black
bear paw prints in the sand allaround the tent, not encircling
it, but like, very close to it.
And I was like, ah, like, wenever saw, I have seen quite a
few black bears in Washington.
(16:42):
We didn't see that one, but thewind had shifted and there was a
seal carcass. Oh, wow, like 50feet away, but we hadn't noticed
it, because it was like wewalked up from one side, we set
up the tent, then we walked theother way, but we were down
closer to the water, and thewind was blowing the other way,
(17:05):
so we didn't notice it. But thenin the morning, we're like, oh,
this was a really bad choice ofwhere to set up. Our going to
what you were saying about thecare, you know, yeah, not that
no one wants to camp near a deadanimal, but like, that isn't a
place you want to hang out. Thatthat's an issue. Usually could
Craig Romano (17:24):
smell dead, because, I tell you, Jay, you're
talking about the coast, and I'mdiverting a little but the
absolute worst thing that I'veever smelled, maybe we'll do a
chapter on this, a podcast. Theworst thing I've ever smelled in
the wild is a dead whale. It isthe most foul. Oh, my God, it
is. It is, yeah, it's rancid.
It's awful. I think it scaresthe bears away too. I mean, it's
awful. I
Jennie Flaming (17:45):
don't know. I mean, I'm gonna say that a seal,
you're right. We should do anepisode about this. Um, maybe.
But around Halloween,
Unknown (17:54):
okay, dead whales are just
Jennie Flaming (17:57):
things. Kind
Craig Romano (17:58):
of a dead horse on the trail once too, and they
don't smell nice either. Oh no,yeah, that's another
Jennie Flaming (18:02):
anyway, the seal was like, up there. It was
pretty intense, and it wasamazing, because the when the
wind shifted, we could totallysmell it, but we couldn't sell
it before. Anyway, yeah,
Unknown (18:14):
so, yeah, grocery store to this guy. So yeah, again. But
most wildlife, they don't wantto encounter you. They're doing
everything to stay away fromyou. And again, your better
chances of seeing wildlife.
Again, it's going to be on moreremote areas or in busy areas
during quieter time. So soagain, later in the in most
while it's more active, later inthe day, early in the morning,
(18:36):
Yep, those are always and again,I spend a lot of time on the
trails during these periods, andI spend time alone on the trail,
so I'm not talking, so I'mquiet. If you're with a group
and you're taught, I mean, Imean, people have never seen a
bear in the wild because they'realways out in groups and they're
talking, yeah? So again, if youdon't want to see wildlife,
there's all kinds of things youcan do not to see them. But if
you do, yeah, there's whenyou're on the trail, and also
(18:58):
the behavior and being down.
Same thing with the cougar. Iwas by myself end of the day,
and I was downwind also, yeah,so all these things, he just
launched. He or she justnonchalantly walked across the
trail, not even knowing I wasthere. Because normally they
wouldn't. They don't want to.
They they don't want to bespotted, you know, right? So
I'll tell you, we're talkingabout thunder Creek, which is
(19:19):
interesting in that area,because I had my first encounter
of this type of animal in thisarea. Again, we don't think
about I've had lots ofencounters of this type of
animal back East. Again, moose.
Moose are all over the placewhere I grew up, in the
Northeast. So I've known how tohow to hike around moose,
because moose can be dangeroustoo, especially during the rut,
(19:41):
I was trail running in a fourthof July pass, and I'm going up
the trail, and all sudden, herecomes what I thought was an elk
coming down the trail. It wasnot an elk, it was a young
moose, and it wasn't going toyield the trail to me. So I
Jennie Flaming (19:56):
like to they're like, I'm sorry. I had
Craig Romano (19:59):
to. Pop off the trail, get down. And one thing I
know about moose. Moose haveterrible eyesight, so I got
behind trees and just kind ofgot out of its sight and let it
go through so moose, and I'veseen bull moose during the rut
out in the Okanagan. They're allover northeastern Washington.
Moose population has beengrowing in this area. They are
(20:19):
always exciting to see. They'rehuge. Elk are incredible. But if
you think elk are big, wait, TC,a moose, yeah. I mean, some of
the big I've seen, and samething, Alaska's got some giant
bull moose out there,subspecies. But the moose out
here are pretty big too. They'reexciting. I have seen caribou,
not here in Washington. We hadwoodland caribou that no longer
live in the state,unfortunately. So that would,
(20:42):
that would get they're exciting.
I hope we get to those by Haveyou seen caribou in Alaska?
Jennie, yeah, yeah, cariboucool, yeah. I actually, yes,
yeah. I saw in Quebec. TheSouthern, most southern, most
fascinating. They're cool. Theyhave terrible eyesight too.
Yeah.
Jennie Flaming (20:58):
Craig, while we're talking about ungulates,
can we talk about elk a littlebit? Yes, I know. Was it last
spring, they or winter that youhad the elk encounter that you
showed me the photo where itkind of see, it was like in on
the Olympic Peninsula somewhere.
It wasn't ringing a bell, okay,
Craig Romano (21:18):
yes, and that was a big bull elk coming down in
the in the whole rate where weare hiking the Snyder Jackson
Trail, which is a very obscuretrail which connects the whole
watershed to the Buchawatershed. The trail is used
more by elk going back and forthbetween the watershed. And here
we are hiking up. It was one ofthe biggest bull bull elk I've
(21:41):
seen come right down the trailand we stopped. It was, I
switched back, and we yelled alot, and it was not going to
yield. It was like, I'm comingdown, you guys, and we're in a
very, very steep slope. Yeah. Sowe had to keep target and hike
off the trail to let this thingget by us. Well,
Jennie Flaming (21:56):
because if it wants to just go and trample
you, then it will,
Craig Romano (21:59):
it will, it will.
So, yeah, it was, it was quite,it was quite thrilling. It was
amazing, again, amazing to seeit, but you have to keep a safe
distance and talk. And we gotout of the way. And you, you've
got to, you know, you're notgoing to sit there and win
against the big bull elk. Andusually that's when you have to
(22:21):
be more most concerned about,about elk and moose, is that
obviously, any, any mom with thelittle ones, but this is, this
is a horny male elk coming downthe trail, right?
Jennie Flaming (22:38):
And, like, you don't you really need to, like,
move over,
Craig Romano (22:41):
yeah, has one thing on his mind, because,
yeah, he only hits thisopportunity for about two weeks
out of the year, right? Andyou're not going to disrupt this
Jennie Flaming (22:51):
process. You are not, and you can.
Craig Romano (22:54):
So it's better than we do not want to mess up
the order of the
Jennie Flaming (22:58):
world, okay, Craig, I want to know what your
favorite animal is to see inWashington while you're hiking?
Yeah, I will also answer, and Ithink it might surprise you.
Craig Romano (23:09):
Well, bears are definitely but also mountain
goats are always fun to see. Oh,yeah, and you
Jennie Flaming (23:17):
know, dangerous friends, if you're listening,
don't, don't screw around withmountain goats. They can really
hurt you. So all of these thingsabout keeping your distance and
giving away to them veryimportant for goats, just
because they're smaller, theyhave very pointy horns,
Craig Romano (23:35):
right? And both the male and the female both do,
yeah. Um, anyway, yeah. Andagain, we're a part of the
country. You know, mountaingoats aren't as widespread as
some of these other creatures Iwas talking about, so it's very,
very thrilling to see them.
They're in parts of the Rockiesin the northwest. One of my very
first hikes when I came out herein the summer of 1985 I was
absolutely thrilled to death,because it was my very first
(23:55):
hike in the North Cascades, andI encountered four mountain
goats, and I was just beyondmyself, because to me, that was
like the North Cascades mountaingrowth. Yeah, they're cool. But
some of the smaller critters,which I have not seen enough,
pine Martins, have got to be oneof the cutest critters on the
planet. They are. I've only seenpine Martins, maybe three or
four times, fishers. Same thing.
(24:16):
They're a little nastier thanthe pine Martin, but they're
cute. Those are cool. I loveseeing those otters. Love
watching otters. Otters arealways fun. Fun to watch. Um,
big horn sheep are cool. We havethose in Washington on the east
side of the Cascades and in thenorth northeast part of the
state, they are very, very, verycool. Um, bobcats. Bobcats are
(24:38):
cool. Uh, I've only seen onebobcat.
Jennie Flaming (24:41):
I've never seen one in this one,
Craig Romano (24:43):
yeah. And you're in every state. I think, I think
they're in every state. They'rethey're so widespread. My mom's
has them in her backyard, andyet, like, to me, it's like, Did
I see one? I've not seen thelinks yet. That's still on my
hit list. Yeah. But those aresome of my favorites. Wait,
What? What? But I guess Ithey're all my face. I
Jennie Flaming (25:02):
was gonna say you didn't give a favorite,
Craig, let's try again. Oh,Craig, what is your favorite
animal to see hiking inWashington? Oh, man,
Craig Romano (25:13):
probably bears. I love bears. That was kind of
what you started to say. Okay,how about you? I'm well before I
Jennie Flaming (25:21):
answer, I wanted to mention that when you were
talking about goats, there areparts of Olympic National Park
and also, like the centralcascades for people who are
looking to see goats, like LakeEngle the lake Engels trail,
it's very popular, but there,that's a I think I've never been
there without seeing, yeah,goats. And, you know, you've got
(25:44):
to keep your distance from thatthere. We've had too many
triskets, and
Craig Romano (25:50):
we should do a podcast on goats, because I can
some of the best places. I'vegot lots of suggestions of we're
almost guaranteed not just see acouple, but see, you know,
scores of them,
Jennie Flaming (26:01):
yeah. Um, okay, so, okay, my, if you want to
know my favorite, okay, myabsolute favorite animal to see
on the trail in Washington isthe pica.
Craig Romano (26:16):
You know, it's funny. I didn't even think of
the pica. Um, what a riot. Theyare cute. They're amazingly
cute. Usually hear them beforeyou see them, if you see them at
all. Yes, they are adorable,especially when they've got a
whole bunch of Lupin in yourmouth.
Jennie Flaming (26:29):
Yes. But, you know, I think the reason why I
love seeing pika so much isbecause you hear them all the
time. Yeah, right. No. I mean,if you're around rocks and it's
above, like 3000 feet, you'reprobably gonna hear a pika, but
seeing them doesn't happen thatoften. I mean, they're so small,
(26:50):
yeah, and they go into and outof their little holes so quickly
that I think it just reallyfeels like a treat to see a
pica. They are cute,
Craig Romano (27:01):
and I know some by far, yeah, and you said, usually
don't see him. I remembersitting taking breaks by by a
talus slope, and really quietand a pica, unbeknownst that
that I'm sitting there haspopped his head right up. I
mean, I've got some great closeup shots, because I've been in
that situation where it justpopped up, not even knowing that
I was there. Um, here's alittle, little known fact about
(27:25):
pika. You may know it. And ofcourse, this is definitely boy
humor. We love it. Pikas are twoeaters. They eat their own dung.
So we love my son. I got a 10year old son. That's always a
great topic to talk about.
Jennie Flaming (27:38):
Oh, yeah, there's nothing better than
talking about poop with 10 girls
Craig Romano (27:43):
eats its own dung, you know, so love it. But they
are. They're definitely
Jennie Flaming (27:49):
cute, yeah. I mean, I do. I also the most of
the times, except for one thatI've seen black bears here have
been at a bit of a distancewhere it was, like, not scary at
all. Like, one place is spraypark in Mount Rainier, I've seen
bears there. That's one of myfavorite hikes in Washington.
(28:10):
And I've seen bears there quitea few times. And same in Olympic
National Park at hurricane Hill,which is a very popular area,
but, like, I've seen him there,yeah, yeah, if you're hiking up
the trail there, there's like, abig meadow kind of off to your
right and below, and especiallyearly in the day, early in the
(28:33):
summer, I've seen black bearthere, I think, three times. So
that's quite a few. Um, and thatthat's not, that's awesome and
not scary, because they're, ohyeah, they're way, they're
focused on something else.
You're, you're, you know, when Isay further away, I mean, like a
half mile or more, like, notclose, but you see, fine when
you're almost.
Craig Romano (28:56):
All my bear encounters have not been scary.
The thing is, what you have toknow again, same thing, the
bears, again, never get betweenmom and the Cubs. And the other
thing, if there's, I usually seea lot of bears in the fall,
which is one of the best times,because that's when they're
very, very active. They'rethey're fattening up for
hibernation, and the berry cropsare there, and if they got their
(29:18):
head buried in the berries.
They're usually not thatinterested. I always joke.
They're not interested inItalian food. They're they've
got the berries. So one of my Iwas in backpacking the Olympics
in Lake La Crosse basin, whichis a unbelievable area. 13 of I
saw 13 bears on one hike. That'smy record. That's amazing. It's
incredible. And they were allgreat. And kind of me, they're
(29:40):
all they they were just alleating. And they could care, you
know, they they didn't care.
That was out there, one of themost unique bear stories I had.
You'll love this one same thingwas in the fall, they're almost
all that was on coming down fromShaffer Lake. This is over in
the Chihuahua area, all bymyself coming down. I looked at
the side of the trail, andthat's a half. The Bear. I saw
(30:01):
half the bear. What it is. Ijust saw the rump. Its head was
in the ground.
Jennie Flaming (30:07):
Yeah, so you really got to be careful there,
because you don't want tostartle it. Well, this really
bad. You're,
Craig Romano (30:13):
you're definitely on my story, right? So realizing
that I'm very, very close,because it's right there off the
side of the trail. He's got hishead in the ground because it
broke. And I said, I betterclap. Let this bear know I'm
there. So I clapped. All sudden,he pops his head up, and you
could see all the yellow jacketsswarming. He was in, he was in a
(30:33):
he was in a a nest, in a combbecause, you know, trying to get
eating. And soon as thathappened, he took off running
down the hill. And I always liketo joke, you watch the old
cartoons, it was like all theyellow jackets were forming an
arrow, just like it was thecraziest thing to see this bear
pop its head out of out of theground, and then the swarm
(30:55):
around it, and it took off. Butagain, it was a younger one, and
I think I can't remember if Italked about this. Usually the
bears, you see the most are theyoung males, because the bear,
the bears, will stay with momfor two years, and it's on the
third year, they're on theirown. And lots of times they
still don't get it that that's ahuman being. You're not supposed
(31:16):
to be near them, because some ofthem carry guns, you know, and
they're going to hunt you. Solots of times when I've
encountered a lot, are usually ajuvenile bear out there, kind of
just figuring out that you don'tknow yet you're supposed to be
afraid of me. So so that thattends to be most of my
encounter, but I, but I havedefinitely encountered mom in
times and and you gotta bereally careful in that
(31:39):
situation. Yeah, really do. Butagain, it's thrilling. I know
we've talked, I think it'samazing to see bears in a while,
and I've seen so many bears, andI always, I find it's just one
of the most exciting, excitingencounters, so in places you
least expect it to I mean, it'samazing. Sometimes I was down in
(31:59):
last spring Long Beach will atthe bay. Matter of fact, I found
it after Mary. It has one of thehighest bear densities in the
state. So again, you know,people are thinking in the
Cascades, this is in matter offact, one of the hills, the hill
range, right outside. It'scalled the bear range. The bear
Yeah, bear mount, yeah. Um, veryappropriate, yeah. Even led
(32:20):
better point, which is the tipof Long Beach. So you're in this
bears. They're all over theplace in there. The habitat is
absolutely perfect for them.
They have the apex species inthere. So food, lots of lots of
food. So the bear population ispretty healthy. The black bear
populate pretty healthy in thispart of the country. And
actually in many part, I've seenbears in Florida. Same thing
people, they're they're outthere. So always exciting. So
(32:42):
when we talk about wildlife,though, what about the stuff
that's not so cuddly? Do you doyou consider things like, I know
Jennie, you love these things?
Snakes?
Jennie Flaming (32:56):
Sure. I Well, I'm okay with snakes. It's
spiders and spiders. I'm finewith snakes. So I don't want to
get bit by a snake, but I dothink it is pretty cool to see
rattlesnakes on EasternWashington. Yeah, hikes. I mean,
it's a little scary, but it'salso, you know, I pay extra
(33:20):
attention to my like footwear inthose situations. And you know,
if I have my dog with me, whichI don't hike with him that
often, but if there is snakesaround, I am like, extra careful
to keep his lease short and nextto me so he doesn't try to
tingle with a snake or
Craig Romano (33:40):
absolutely and it's another thing that the
bears in Cougars people areterrified around. And again,
it's one of those. I've hiked somany miles in the state, and I
can, I can count, you know, ontwo hands how many rattlesnake
encounters have had, and they'veall been fine. They're always
startling. The northern Pacificrattlesnake is docile for
rattlesnakes, maybe we should doa whole podcast on rattlesnakes
(34:04):
and snakes. So it's cool whenyou see a rattle, it's a good
idea, yeah, and talk about kindof demystify. And I actually had
an encounter very cool. I wentout with some Parks Canada
wildlife biologist to a nationalpark in in Eastern Canada to
catch a rare, endangeredrattlesnake. And we got to do
all kinds very cool. So ratnakesare cool, but the coolest, by
(34:24):
far, the coolest snake inWashington that I love
encountering, and I've onlyencountered maybe three or four
times, the rubber boa. Therubber boa is a cool thing. Is
cuddly. It looks like a toy.
It's not cuddly. It looks like arubber snake. So
Jennie Flaming (34:42):
for what I'm gonna guess is 99% of people
listening who have no idea whata rubber boa is. Where do we
have them? In Washington? What'stheir habitat?
Craig Romano (34:53):
I've seen it mostly on the east slope of the
Cascades and in the ColumbiaRiver Gorge. I've not seen one
on the west side, though, I needto check they may be. Here, but
I've never seen one here.
They're a constrictor. They'rereally they're, they're, they're
a docile constrictor. They are anative. They're one of two
native constrictors in NorthAmerica. The other one is Rosie
boa. I love the name that whenyou Rosie's down in Arizona, in
California, and rubbers up here.
(35:16):
But the first time I saw one, Iswear I came it was right on the
trail, and then wasn't moving. Ithought, God, some kid lost his
rubber snake. And you realizethat's a rubber boa, and it's
rear end looks like a face aswell, because it's to to to
thwart predators, because it'sso docile, it doesn't have
venom, it doesn't bite. So ifsomething's trying to sneak up
(35:39):
behind, it looks like it's hisface. So I'm not quite sure I
have to do my research. Who eatsthose? Probably, you know,
eagles and things like that,yeah? But they're, they're very,
very docile, very, very cool,and they're constrictors. So
that's how they get their food.
They're gonna, they're gonnawrap around it. But if you
picked one up, it's not, it'snot like a Burmese python, it's
like
Jennie Flaming (35:58):
nothing. Yeah, true. Um, also, if you're
listening and you're like, Whatabout birds? We're gonna do a
vcu, and we'll do a differentepisode about birds. Um, because
this is already a lot withoutbirds, there's
Craig Romano (36:15):
so many. Well, yeah, talking about my favorite
amphibians. I mean, I
Jennie Flaming (36:20):
love, yeah, yeah, we could. We could go a
lot of places with birds, and we
Unknown (36:24):
have been talking about marine mammals too, I know,
Jennie Flaming (36:28):
but we're gonna do another we're gonna do a
separate episode about thatalso. So if you're into wildlife
and hiking and animals, we willhave more episodes for you along
these lines, and
Craig Romano (36:42):
we'd love to hear some of your encounters, and
want to hear about your bearencounters. Have you seen the
links? Yes, tell us. And Cougarsalways love hearing about
Jennie Flaming (36:50):
about mountains.
Yeah, yes. Awesome. Okay, soonce again, if you're listening,
if you love the pod, we wouldlove to have you rate us and
review us that helps otherpeople find it, and also just a
reminder, if you're bookingtravel and you're going to book
through Expedia, or you'rebuying something through Rei,
(37:10):
use the link in our show notes,and that will help support the
podcast and won't cost youanything beyond What you're
already spending so thank youfor being here. Thank you for
listening, and bye for now. Hieveryone. This is Jennie. I hope
you enjoyed this episode, Craig,and I love bringing these
(37:32):
episodes to you, and I want toremind you about how you can
support the podcast, you canleave us a tip or purchase
Craig's books or sign up for myemail list, and in addition to
that, we have our affiliate linkfor Expedia and Rei in the show
notes. So if you are making apurchase from one of those
(37:53):
places and you follow the linkthat we always have in the show
notes, then we will receive asmall commission, and that helps
us keep things going. So thankyou so much for your support,
and thank you for listening.
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