January 29, 2025 • 26 mins
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Jennie and Craig talk about one of Craig’s favorite places to hike in Southern California during the winter.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jennie Flaming (00:05):
Jennie, welcome to the Washington State hiking
podcast. I'm your host. JennieThwing Flaming,
Craig Romano (00:10):
and I'm your co host. Greg Romano, Craig
Jennie Flaming (00:12):
and I are happy to have you here. We provide
practical and timely, seasonalhiking advice for hikers, trail
runners and potential hikers andtrail runners of all skill and
ability levels that is helpful,accurate, fun and inclusive. Hi
everyone. Jennie here, just aquick note before we dive into
(00:35):
this episode. Craig and Irecorded this episode before the
fires that devastated the LosAngeles area earlier this month,
and I wanted to share with youthat, as far as Craig and I
know, none of the trails wediscuss in this episode have
been impacted by these fires.
However, many trails in the LosAngeles area have been impacted
(00:59):
by fires, and this is a fireprone area, so keep that in mind
when planning a trip any time ofyear to really anywhere in the
West, but especially this area.
And also we know that ourneighbors to the south really
need our support, whether that'sthrough donations right now, or
(01:21):
our dollars by visiting in thefuture. So just wanted to
mention that, and I hope youenjoy the show.
Craig Romano (01:31):
Hey Craig. Hey Jennie, so this is a great
people ask me all the time,where do you like to go hiking
in the wintertime, in jokingly,I always say California.
Jennie Flaming (01:42):
And you know, to be fair, well, we are going to
talk about Southern Californiawinter hiking in this episode,
because it's a great getawayfrom Seattle. We do have, in the
last, you know, six weeks, manywonderful episodes about winter
hikes in Washington. So youknow, that is also being
Craig Romano (02:01):
covered absolutely but I'll tell you. And we have
to preface, you know, it'sfunny. I've lived in the
Northwest for 35 years, and whenI moved out here, I just heard
nothing but how people, youknow, rip on Californians. And
matter of fact, it's funnybecause growing up in the in New
England, it was the same thingwe used to say about New
Yorkers. So I heard it allalready. It's just California's
here, okay, but I don't know I'mgonna make this confession now,
(02:24):
this is gonna be really tough.
Okay, I love California. Okay,so does
Jennie Flaming (02:29):
that we're gonna take back here. Did I just give
Craig Romano (02:34):
up my Northwest credentials?
Jennie Flaming (02:37):
Of course not.
California is an amazing state,just like ours. Yeah, I love
California, too.
Craig Romano (02:42):
The hiking is amazing down there. You know,
there's so many things I'll haveabout it. It's, it's easy. And
the thing is, I don't go downthere in the summertime, because
I love it up here in thesummertime, yeah? But, you know,
the gray and the rain andanything to you know, I grew up
in New England, and I love thecold, the cold, you know, I can
go back to New England. I goback there during Christmas, and
it's cold, but it's sunny. Whatdrives me, what depresses me, is
(03:06):
the gray, the constant gray. Andthere's nothing like getting
down to Orange County or SanDiego or Riverside. But I'm
like, oh my god, sunshine. It'sAlways Sunny down here. I love
it.
Jennie Flaming (03:17):
You know, that's really funny, because my my
brother lived in Tijuana for awhile, and during that time, I
spent quite a bit of time in SanDiego. And one time I was there,
and it was like, right afterChristmas, it was like the last
week of December, I think weleft Seattle on december 26 and
(03:40):
there was end of the world rainevery day that we were there.
And it was so funny because,like, people there were
definitely freaking out. It'sokay, guys, we got
Craig Romano (03:54):
so we have to put the warning here. So it does
rain there, it does. Andtraditionally, it's when, you
know, with those La Ninas andthe classic I did the LA
Marathon two two marches ago. Iwas so psyched to go down there.
I didn't have to worry about theheat. I'm in the beer garden
after it's raining on me. Icould have done that in Seattle.
(04:14):
So it does rain down there,yeah. But again, your chances
are really, really good thatyou're gonna have decent
weather. It's gonna it's gonnabe February. You could sit
outside and have a drink and aburger.
Jennie Flaming (04:26):
And one of the reasons that we're talking about
Southern California specificallyis because, along with, I would
say, also Arizona and Las Vegas,this is one of the closest,
sunny and warm ish places toSeattle. You know, we're not
talking about Hawaii in thisepisode, or Mexico or the
(04:48):
Caribbean, even though those aregreat places to go. One of the
reasons we're talking about thisis it's not hot and it's nice,
but not hot and it's prettyclose. To Seattle, and pretty
affordable to get to fortraveling on an airplane or even
a road trip.
Craig Romano (05:05):
Yeah, my last flight down there in January,
going to Ontario in outside ofRiverside. $150 round trip.
Yeah. So, you know, last air hasso many flights, you know, down
it's really easy to get there.
And and then same thing, ifyou're staying away from the
real popular, you know, tourismareas, it's, it's actually
pretty affordable too. So youcan, and then hiking. Just take,
(05:26):
you know, take your nationalpark pass, you know, if you're
doing those. Or, you know, a lotof the state parks are just
nominal fees. It's not going tocost a lot of money. They're
really affordable
Jennie Flaming (05:36):
getaways. Yeah.
I mean, it's still money, right?
But, but
Craig Romano (05:39):
we're spending that money here too, just
drinking more because we'redepressed.
Jennie Flaming (05:44):
All right, cool, by the way. Everybody listening,
if you you know this podcast isawesome and free, and we are
thrilled to bring it to you thatway. But if you want to support
us, in addition to our tip jar,we also have a link in the show
notes. So if you are going to goon to say Expedia, to book a
(06:07):
hotel or a flight or rental carin any of these places, if you
book that through our link,that's in the show notes, it's
in all of the show notes,actually will get a small
commission, and it doesn't costyou anything except for what you
were spending anyway.
Craig Romano (06:22):
And Jennie, I think little plug, because
you'll be sending us back downthere on our next trip. We
really appreciate that. Itdepends on how
Jennie Flaming (06:28):
many people actually want to take your
hiking advice. Okay, so, Craig,this is a topic that I don't
know a lot about, because on thetimes I've been to California, I
have not done a lot of hikingthere. So we're gonna really
rely on your your experiencewith a bajillion hikes down
there over the last 35 years.
Craig Romano (06:49):
And the thing is, there are so many places. So
first, it's interesting. Formany, many years, I had zero
interest in Southern California.
I had been there, but I thought,you know, it's so crowded, so
many people. And then I juststarted spending a lot more time
there. My wife had some familydown there visiting, and I
couldn't believe how much Istarted liking the area. So
here's the thing that's amazing,despite the fact, when you take
(07:10):
LA County, San Diego, Riverside,San Bernardino orange, those
down there, so it's half thepopulation. Got 20 million
people. Okay, you're gonna beand I've been on trails and in
the middle there and all bymyself alone. The thing is, it's
amazing California's hike, youknow, you know. So don't think
like because, you know, theydefinitely, they're definitely
(07:32):
amazing trails, amazing parks.
But same thing that's going onhere, it's like most people are
going to the same places all thetime. You know, there's a lot,
even in Joshua Tree NationalPark, which is a couple hour
drive from LA it's one of ourmost popular national parks.
Yeah, people are going to begoing to all the same spots, but
there's also spots you can getout there that there's only
(07:54):
gonna be a handful of people soor or just out, you know, places
that are bordering these, thesepopular national parks. So don't
think that, because there's somany people there, the trails
are gonna be absolutely crowdedand everything like that. I
mean, that's, you know, go toMount Si, go to Franklin falls.
I can find spots outside of LAthat's not gonna be that
crowded. Yeah. So
Jennie Flaming (08:15):
let's, you know, I can imagine we might do a
podcast episode on this topic infuture years as well. But for
right now, January 2025, if youwere gonna go, let's say
January, February or March, downto Southern California for
hiking, for the best sort ofdestination for hiking and
(08:39):
affordability. What airportwould you fly to? And then after
that, we'll talk about some ofyour favorite hikes there. Yeah,
Craig Romano (08:46):
so I go to Ontario. Most in Ontario is
great. First of all, it's notlax. I mean, LAX is, but it's LA
area. It is. It's about 50 milesfrom Los Angeles. So you're
near, you're big, you're nearRancho, Cucamonga, San
Bernardino, Riverside. It's soit's in the the Inland Empire
there. I have also flown to, toJohn Wayne, which is Orange
(09:08):
Counties. So if you wantsomething close, that's a really
easier Disneyland airport. Yeah,a lot of people, but Disney
people use, people use Ontariofor Disney also, yeah, yeah. And
then I've also flown intoBurbank too. So same thing,
burbeck is great, just if you'retrying to get into north of LA
in that area. So,
Jennie Flaming (09:26):
so LA area, but not lax, because then you're
dealing with sort of urbanthings that are not what you're
there for, unless that is whatyou're there. That's great. And
Craig Romano (09:37):
the thing is, would you look at it all if
you're going you might get abetter manifesto. All those
airports are all non stopflights from SeaTac, yeah, you
know, you know, there might bemore going to LAX. And the thing
is, you want to look at otherthings too, because in LAX,
you're going to be right therein the city. If you're planning
on driving farther out, it'sgoing to be more difficult to
get out. The other thing, ifyou're looking at rental cars,
(09:59):
can. Pair of the prices. So youwant to look at all these same
thing, hotels. But the otherthing too, and I mentioned, I go
to Ontario a lot. I find it veryeasy. It's a very mellow
airports and a great locationthat I can get out really
quickly outside. And also toPalm Springs. Palm Springs is
only a little over an hour, anhour and a half drive there,
because sometimes those flightsto Palm Springs might be more
(10:21):
expensive, not as many. So I useOntario as a great, a great way
to get to Palm Springs and toSan Diego. I've used it to get
to San Diego too. It's only anhour south to get to San Diego
County. Yeah, it's pretty easy.
So that is my number one airportthat I use.
Jennie Flaming (10:35):
And I was just looking up while you were
talking Craig. So also, ifyou're further north, so those
airports all have direct flightsfrom SeaTac, there's also a
direct flight to Orange County,LAX and Palm Springs and San
Diego from Everett, yes, frompain field on Alaska Airlines.
(10:55):
So that's another option forthose of you who are further
north.
Craig Romano (10:58):
And if you're in Portland, they have flights
Ontario as well. Yeah, yep,cool.
Jennie Flaming (11:02):
And Spokane. I didn't look that one up, but
Spokane has some dry flights tothat area too. Okay, so now that
I'm here in Orange County,Ontario, Burbank Riverside area,
tell us about a few of yourfavorite hikes there, Craig and
what makes them great for thistime of year? Yeah. So
Craig Romano (11:22):
you have to remember too, even though it's
Southern California's weather,the mountains are still getting
snow, yeah. So you're not goingto be going up into the San
Gabriels, even the Santa Anas Isee, will have snow. So there's
gonna be snow in the highcountry. The desert is
absolutely perfect for that timeof year. And I've been to Joshua
Tree in February and March,marches is going to be a little
(11:43):
bit warmer, Yeah, but you'regetting the flowers, yeah?
Jennie Flaming (11:46):
And that's when the crowds get really intense.
So tell us. But
Craig Romano (11:49):
the other thing I should tell you, too, if you've
ever if you've never been, ifyou've never been. So the great
thing about Joshua Tree is thatyou can stay in Palm Springs, so
you don't have to camp. Becausecamping might be, it might be
difficult. You might not want tobring the gear. It might be
difficult just because might becrowd at the time. So you can
actually stay in Palm Springs,or any of those areas in the
huccella Valley. There's so manydifferent places you can stay
(12:11):
there. Yeah, and you're going tobe 4000 feet lower than Joshua
Tree, which means it's 80degrees in Palm Springs. It's
not going to be 80 degrees inJoshua Tree. Yeah. It might only
be in the 50s up there. Yeah. Sothe weather is very, very nice
during that time. So the samething, most people are going to
go to the most popular areas inthe park, but just venture out
(12:34):
to some of the the places on onthe periphery, you know, like
the Morongo Canyon area, whenyou first come in there, that's
not getting a lot of crowds. Andthe irony is that's actually
closer to Palm Springs, buteveryone's heading into the into
the main areas, so so definitelycheck that. And if you want to
really see something, aninteresting area that's not in
(12:54):
the National Park, there's aplace called whitewater Canyon
preserve, and it's actually anational monument, and President
Obama declared it in 2009 it'spart of the sands to snow
National Monument. Sands beingthe desert, yes, the snow being
sang or Gonio, which is thehighest peak in Southern
California. It's 11 and a half1000 feet. You're in this desert
(13:15):
with Joshua trees. You'relooking up at snow cap peak.
It's just, it's, it's anamazing, you know, landscape,
yeah, and, and the PCT actuallygoes through there in that area.
And so that connects JoshuaTree. And so the national forest
that is an amazing place to gohiking in there. And there's,
there's an interpretive center.
I don't find that plate, thatarea very crowded, something
Morongo Canyon outside of JoshuaTree. This, there's the Bucha
(13:39):
palms, which is another it's aconservancy that runs it.
There'll be a lot of peopleright when you get there to at
the Visitor Center and theOasis, they said, these are
California Palms. These are thenative palm trees the oasis. But
you can hike several miles toget into these natural where,
again, you're going to be onlywith a handful of people. Cool.
So, so these are really cool.
(14:01):
You know, when you're in OrangeCounty in California, the palm
trees that are growing along theroads, those are all from
somewhere else. Those aren'tnative palms. The California
native palms are crazy or fanthey have all these fan leaves
that come out. They're crazy,looking cool. And they grow in
these oasis that are in, thatare in, in the desert. And
they're amazing. The hike tosome of those this also, we're
gonna see a lot of the wildlifedesert, Big Horn, you know, the
(14:22):
chuck Wallace, the lizards,things like that, yeah, some
really cool stuff. And thelizards are really cool.
Totally, the chuck walls arereally cool. So these are all
there's another area outside of,outside of the Coachella Valley
Mecca, which is the meccaCanyon. It's a BLM area.
There's, there's ladders you canget into these areas, these
little canyon, Canyon hiking.
There are so many places they'resame thing in the Santa Rosa
(14:46):
mountains. They're just south ofPalm Springs. There are so many
trails in that area. So again,you can use, use Palm Springs,
Indio, Palm Desert, any of thoseareas as your base. Yeah. And go
in a place to check out theSalton Sea. The Salton Sea is
fascinating, you know, I
Jennie Flaming (15:06):
have been there, but it was in the summer, so the
hiking was out of the
Craig Romano (15:10):
classroom. So, so you want to go to the Sonny
Bono, you know, you'll behumming 60 tunes, you know, I
got you, babe and all that theSonny Bono National Wildlife
Refuge. You know it Sonny. Hewas a congressman from
California in that area, and hewas also the mayor of Palm
Springs for a while. He actuallywas pretty big on trying to
protect the Salton Sea becausethere's a lot of threats the
(15:33):
bird. The birding isunbelievable in there the so we
spent some time at that NationalWildlife Refuge. Cool. There's
great, easy, family friendlytrails to do. The burning is
amazing in there. So that's aplace you want to check out as
well. Yeah, for sure.
Jennie Flaming (15:47):
Love it. Have you, Craig, have you been to
Death Valley National Park?
Craig Romano (15:51):
You know, I've only biked through the periphery
of it. I have not hiked. It'sit's on my it's on my list. We
keep saying we got to get inthere. So I me too a whole
Jennie Flaming (16:01):
I've also, I have been to Death Valley, but
it was during the summer. Well,I mean, it was part of a bigger
road trip, and it was like, youknow, you just try to get
through there in the middle ofthe night and survive, but not
die. Um, but someday we'll do an
Craig Romano (16:19):
episode about that. And Death Valley is huge.
It's one of the biggest nationalparks, and it gets a fraction of
the people that Joshua Tree. Butanother place between them,
again, is the Mojave national,National Preserve, I believe it.
Yeah, and that's another place.
There's so many places off thebeaten track. Yep, there's some
of the biggest dune complexes inthe country. Yeah, check out
this near Barstow, betweenBarstow and 29 palms, there's,
(16:41):
there's lots of, yes, lots ofplaces in those areas. Too
Jennie Flaming (16:47):
Cool. Those are great suggestions. Okay, are
there other places in that area?
So I'm getting kind of a themeof, you know, desert, DESERT
hiking is pretty great. HighCountry hiking is kind of off
the table because of snow,unless you want a snow
adventure. And are there anyother kind of general types of
(17:08):
hikes? There are areas thatyou'd recommend? Yeah.
Craig Romano (17:13):
I mean, just even right within the whole urban the
urban hike area. So one of myI'll tell you one, a couple of
two, fascinating places more inthe valley, where all the people
are, that's just going to blowyou away. If you want to see
what Southern California lookedlike before statehood, you know,
all the settlement andeverything, I've got two places
to send you, because what'samazing is the biological
(17:36):
diversity in Southern Californiais incredible. Yet, with 20
million people, I mean, youknow, it's so much has been
fragmented hurt, but Chino HillsState Park. So Chino Hills, it's
about 30,000 acres State Park.
It is right where LA County, SanBernardino, Riverside County,
all meet. You are surrounded byall the cities you can hike
there. There are miles and milesof hiking trails in this area,
(18:00):
old growth, Californiasycamores, old growth live oaks
in the amazing I was just downthere last year. In March, I was
staying in Brea, right next toAnaheim. So everyone's going to
Disneyland. We're going hikingand all day hiking in this area
on a absolutely Blue, Blue BirdDay, we ran into 12 people, wow,
surrounded by 20 million. Yeah.
(18:24):
And how far were you fromDisneyland? You 15 air miles.
You know, you know, you couldsee when you get to the top of
the summit San Juan Hill, thehighest point in the in the
Chino Hills. You can seeAnaheim. You can see the ocean,
yeah, you can see all the citiesaround you. But you can also,
when you're in certain positionswhere you can't see the cities,
(18:45):
right? All you see across arethe hills, these golden, golden
grassy hills, and then the SanGabriel Mountains, 10,000 feet
across. You know, you see SanJuan Santo, San Gorgonia, to the
east, and you see the Santa Anasto the south, and and you don't
see, it's amazing. Of course,there's airplanes, you know,
landing everything, but you can,you can see what this area must
(19:06):
have looked like, yeah, youknow, 200 years ago, yeah, you
know, during the haciendas andall that. Yeah, it's just, it's
an amazing experience, ChinoHills. And love it, places that
you can access that from. Soit's been one of the big
conservation areas that they Ithink, I think the State Park
was only developed in the 80s,because, again, just seeing all
(19:29):
this development coming. Theother place I love is just
outside of Temecula and inMarietta. This is in Riverside
County, but right on the SanDiego County border, it's called
Santa Rosa ecological Preserve.
Same text, about 10,000 acres,80 miles of trails, old and old
growth. You know this the doughgrowth trees are incredible. In
there, these beautiful, coollive oaks. And there's two, two
(19:51):
of the oldest buildings in thearea, or in their two Adobes.
And they're fascinating becausethey're only. A few years apart,
but one was built when that waspart of Mexico, and the other
one when it was California. Sothe history in that area, but
it's the same thing. Most of thetime, you're on this plateau,
you're above Temecula, whichTemecula has got over 100,000
(20:12):
people. Myriad has got over100,000 people. You don't see
any of that. All you see in themountains. You see what what it
used to look like, if from onehigh Summit, when the high
Summit, you could just van aclear day, you could see the San
Diego skyline, 30 miles. Reallycool, but it is an incredible
place. There's coyotes all overthe place. I remember taking my
son hiking there when he wasabout three years old, and he
(20:35):
just was enamored with all thescat that was all over the
place. Never seen so much coyotescatter. You know, the dog poop
trail for him. Thenthese are the places I love.
There's so many of them downthere, and they're not getting
the a lot of the locals aren'teven going to these places,
yeah. So, so I love these. Andit's same thing if you're in the
(20:56):
San Diego area, one that Icouldn't believe we'd spent
almost all day at this areawhere nobody was on the beach.
And I'll tell you why you'retalking about Tijuana, after the
Tijuana National EstuaryPreserve. So this is the
Southern, one of the southernmost beaches in California. You
got, you've got the borderbeach, and then the Tijuana
(21:17):
estuary reserve, and it's thesame. And the thing is, because
the the same of the bird life isincredible in there, but the
Tijuana River is polluted. It'sfar because it's coming in from
Mexico. It flows intoCalifornia. So a lot is that
Jennie Flaming (21:33):
the river that is the border at some isn't
there snowboard. It just, yeah,it's all
Craig Romano (21:40):
in the US. It just, it starts in Mexico and
kind of it flows north, okay? Itflows Northwest, yep, yep. So it
empties out right in San DiegoCounty. Yeah, you have mission.
So Mission Bay is to the north,which is a pretty popular place,
and I can picture, so the river.
So a lot of people even warnyou, you know, you don't want to
go in the water or anythingthere. Yeah, the birds don't pay
(22:00):
attention that they have a setsand everything. Are all over the
place. But nobody's walking thatbeach. Matter of fact, it was so
funny when we were down here thelast time we were walking, we
got interviewed by a TV crewbecause we're out there hiking,
because there's nobody here.
We're doing Yeah? You can andyou can hike. You keep hiking on
this and you can see the Mexicanborder. You can actually see the
border wall goes into the ocean,yeah? And you can see on the
(22:23):
other side the buildings in it.
So you're right on and on theTijuana, Mexico side, it's all
urbanized. You've got, you couldsee, you know, huge buildings.
And then you're in thispreserve, yeah, California.
Jennie Flaming (22:33):
So, no, that's so interesting, because I've
been to that spot on the Mexicoside, and, um, it is a really
beautiful beach, but you'reright there are tall buildings
kind of right next to you. AndI've always found that spot
really kind of complicated,because it's so beautiful. And
(22:54):
at the same time, like, I just,you know, the times that, like I
said, I've been there, have beenon the Mexico side, and, you
know, the the wall, it is awall, yep, um, you know, it kind
of lands differently when you'reon the southern side of it. But
I just, yeah, that's, I don'tthink I knew that you could get
(23:18):
up close to that on the US youcould actually
Craig Romano (23:21):
walk this a state park border this on the
California you can hike rightalong the wall and shake hands
with people on the side,
Jennie Flaming (23:27):
it's crazy.
Yeah, it's a little on thesouthern side, it's intimidating
to get close to it. But, yeah, Imean, I've been pretty close to
it, and I'm an American, ofcourse, but as I think everyone
knows, but you know, I've beenthere with people who are mostly
with people who are notAmericans, or a group of
Americans and Mexicans and,yeah. So that's cool to know
(23:50):
that there's a park there on theCalifornia side. I didn't even
know that it's
Craig Romano (23:55):
a national, National Estuary preserve like
Padilla Bay, yeah. And so itmeans very, very ecologically
important. And yet people aren'tgoing there again. They're going
to Mission Bay. Yeah. The otherplace, of course, probably the
most popular place in San Diegofor be instant amazing, is
Torrey Pines State Park and LaJolla. So La Jolla is the exact
opposite, very, very upscale.
It's really nice in it, yeah.
(24:19):
But Torrey Pines, the Dory pinetree. It only grows in one
place, right here in SouthernCalifornia, cool and so they
preserved in this area too. It'sall headlands and cliffs. It's a
beautiful state park. You canhike The Headlands. There's all
kinds of rare plants and birds.
And then you can hike the beachin here, and you'll be hiking
along these cliffs. You're notgoing to see any urban
development. Is actually asanctioned clothing optional
(24:41):
beach here too, because that'sblack speech. So if you're, if
you know, depending on how youhow you feel, on that you can
keep hiking or not. So TorreyPines is a great place. If
you've never been there. It'sone of the most beautiful places
in San Diego County. North ofthere, you start getting to more
develop. Developed Beach,though, the beaches are nice,
though, but you're not going tohave a stretch where above you
(25:03):
is no development, until you getto San Onofre, which is near
Pendleton, so that's beenpreserved because of the Marine
Base. Yeah, so there's good Butsame thing there, though, you've
got a highway that's very close.
You're gonna hear the highwaynotes, but you're gonna have
some amazing beach walkingthere. Yeah, and then going to
San Clemente to the north, hassome beautiful beaches, cool to
(25:26):
hike as well. I mean, again,there's so many places. I know
Jennie Flaming (25:29):
there's so many so well, maybe we'll have to
make this an annual tradition.
Craig Romano (25:34):
I'm always going down there, Southern California,
hiking, hiking, new places togo. I mean, I try to do
different places every time I godown there, yeah,
Jennie Flaming (25:42):
love it all right. Well, thanks so much for
sharing all those wonderfulplaces with us. Craig, you.
Jennie, welcome to the Washington State hiking
podcast. I'm your host. JennieThwing Flaming,
Craig Romano (00:10):
and I'm your co host. Greg Romano, Craig
Jennie Flaming (00:12):
and I are happy to have you here. We provide
practical and timely, seasonalhiking advice for hikers, trail
runners and potential hikers andtrail runners of all skill and
ability levels that is helpful,accurate, fun and inclusive. Hi
everyone. Jennie here, just aquick note before we dive into
(00:35):
this episode. Craig and Irecorded this episode before the
fires that devastated the LosAngeles area earlier this month,
and I wanted to share with youthat, as far as Craig and I
know, none of the trails wediscuss in this episode have
been impacted by these fires.
However, many trails in the LosAngeles area have been impacted
(00:59):
by fires, and this is a fireprone area, so keep that in mind
when planning a trip any time ofyear to really anywhere in the
West, but especially this area.
And also we know that ourneighbors to the south really
need our support, whether that'sthrough donations right now, or
(01:21):
our dollars by visiting in thefuture. So just wanted to
mention that, and I hope youenjoy the show.
Craig Romano (01:31):
Hey Craig. Hey Jennie, so this is a great
people ask me all the time,where do you like to go hiking
in the wintertime, in jokingly,I always say California.
Jennie Flaming (01:42):
And you know, to be fair, well, we are going to
talk about Southern Californiawinter hiking in this episode,
because it's a great getawayfrom Seattle. We do have, in the
last, you know, six weeks, manywonderful episodes about winter
hikes in Washington. So youknow, that is also being
Craig Romano (02:01):
covered absolutely but I'll tell you. And we have
to preface, you know, it'sfunny. I've lived in the
Northwest for 35 years, and whenI moved out here, I just heard
nothing but how people, youknow, rip on Californians. And
matter of fact, it's funnybecause growing up in the in New
England, it was the same thingwe used to say about New
Yorkers. So I heard it allalready. It's just California's
here, okay, but I don't know I'mgonna make this confession now,
(02:24):
this is gonna be really tough.
Okay, I love California. Okay,so does
Jennie Flaming (02:29):
that we're gonna take back here. Did I just give
Craig Romano (02:34):
up my Northwest credentials?
Jennie Flaming (02:37):
Of course not.
California is an amazing state,just like ours. Yeah, I love
California, too.
Craig Romano (02:42):
The hiking is amazing down there. You know,
there's so many things I'll haveabout it. It's, it's easy. And
the thing is, I don't go downthere in the summertime, because
I love it up here in thesummertime, yeah? But, you know,
the gray and the rain andanything to you know, I grew up
in New England, and I love thecold, the cold, you know, I can
go back to New England. I goback there during Christmas, and
it's cold, but it's sunny. Whatdrives me, what depresses me, is
(03:06):
the gray, the constant gray. Andthere's nothing like getting
down to Orange County or SanDiego or Riverside. But I'm
like, oh my god, sunshine. It'sAlways Sunny down here. I love
it.
Jennie Flaming (03:17):
You know, that's really funny, because my my
brother lived in Tijuana for awhile, and during that time, I
spent quite a bit of time in SanDiego. And one time I was there,
and it was like, right afterChristmas, it was like the last
week of December, I think weleft Seattle on december 26 and
(03:40):
there was end of the world rainevery day that we were there.
And it was so funny because,like, people there were
definitely freaking out. It'sokay, guys, we got
Craig Romano (03:54):
so we have to put the warning here. So it does
rain there, it does. Andtraditionally, it's when, you
know, with those La Ninas andthe classic I did the LA
Marathon two two marches ago. Iwas so psyched to go down there.
I didn't have to worry about theheat. I'm in the beer garden
after it's raining on me. Icould have done that in Seattle.
(04:14):
So it does rain down there,yeah. But again, your chances
are really, really good thatyou're gonna have decent
weather. It's gonna it's gonnabe February. You could sit
outside and have a drink and aburger.
Jennie Flaming (04:26):
And one of the reasons that we're talking about
Southern California specificallyis because, along with, I would
say, also Arizona and Las Vegas,this is one of the closest,
sunny and warm ish places toSeattle. You know, we're not
talking about Hawaii in thisepisode, or Mexico or the
(04:48):
Caribbean, even though those aregreat places to go. One of the
reasons we're talking about thisis it's not hot and it's nice,
but not hot and it's prettyclose. To Seattle, and pretty
affordable to get to fortraveling on an airplane or even
a road trip.
Craig Romano (05:05):
Yeah, my last flight down there in January,
going to Ontario in outside ofRiverside. $150 round trip.
Yeah. So, you know, last air hasso many flights, you know, down
it's really easy to get there.
And and then same thing, ifyou're staying away from the
real popular, you know, tourismareas, it's, it's actually
pretty affordable too. So youcan, and then hiking. Just take,
(05:26):
you know, take your nationalpark pass, you know, if you're
doing those. Or, you know, a lotof the state parks are just
nominal fees. It's not going tocost a lot of money. They're
really affordable
Jennie Flaming (05:36):
getaways. Yeah.
I mean, it's still money, right?
But, but
Craig Romano (05:39):
we're spending that money here too, just
drinking more because we'redepressed.
Jennie Flaming (05:44):
All right, cool, by the way. Everybody listening,
if you you know this podcast isawesome and free, and we are
thrilled to bring it to you thatway. But if you want to support
us, in addition to our tip jar,we also have a link in the show
notes. So if you are going to goon to say Expedia, to book a
(06:07):
hotel or a flight or rental carin any of these places, if you
book that through our link,that's in the show notes, it's
in all of the show notes,actually will get a small
commission, and it doesn't costyou anything except for what you
were spending anyway.
Craig Romano (06:22):
And Jennie, I think little plug, because
you'll be sending us back downthere on our next trip. We
really appreciate that. Itdepends on how
Jennie Flaming (06:28):
many people actually want to take your
hiking advice. Okay, so, Craig,this is a topic that I don't
know a lot about, because on thetimes I've been to California, I
have not done a lot of hikingthere. So we're gonna really
rely on your your experiencewith a bajillion hikes down
there over the last 35 years.
Craig Romano (06:49):
And the thing is, there are so many places. So
first, it's interesting. Formany, many years, I had zero
interest in Southern California.
I had been there, but I thought,you know, it's so crowded, so
many people. And then I juststarted spending a lot more time
there. My wife had some familydown there visiting, and I
couldn't believe how much Istarted liking the area. So
here's the thing that's amazing,despite the fact, when you take
(07:10):
LA County, San Diego, Riverside,San Bernardino orange, those
down there, so it's half thepopulation. Got 20 million
people. Okay, you're gonna beand I've been on trails and in
the middle there and all bymyself alone. The thing is, it's
amazing California's hike, youknow, you know. So don't think
like because, you know, theydefinitely, they're definitely
(07:32):
amazing trails, amazing parks.
But same thing that's going onhere, it's like most people are
going to the same places all thetime. You know, there's a lot,
even in Joshua Tree NationalPark, which is a couple hour
drive from LA it's one of ourmost popular national parks.
Yeah, people are going to begoing to all the same spots, but
there's also spots you can getout there that there's only
(07:54):
gonna be a handful of people soor or just out, you know, places
that are bordering these, thesepopular national parks. So don't
think that, because there's somany people there, the trails
are gonna be absolutely crowdedand everything like that. I
mean, that's, you know, go toMount Si, go to Franklin falls.
I can find spots outside of LAthat's not gonna be that
crowded. Yeah. So
Jennie Flaming (08:15):
let's, you know, I can imagine we might do a
podcast episode on this topic infuture years as well. But for
right now, January 2025, if youwere gonna go, let's say
January, February or March, downto Southern California for
hiking, for the best sort ofdestination for hiking and
(08:39):
affordability. What airportwould you fly to? And then after
that, we'll talk about some ofyour favorite hikes there. Yeah,
Craig Romano (08:46):
so I go to Ontario. Most in Ontario is
great. First of all, it's notlax. I mean, LAX is, but it's LA
area. It is. It's about 50 milesfrom Los Angeles. So you're
near, you're big, you're nearRancho, Cucamonga, San
Bernardino, Riverside. It's soit's in the the Inland Empire
there. I have also flown to, toJohn Wayne, which is Orange
(09:08):
Counties. So if you wantsomething close, that's a really
easier Disneyland airport. Yeah,a lot of people, but Disney
people use, people use Ontariofor Disney also, yeah, yeah. And
then I've also flown intoBurbank too. So same thing,
burbeck is great, just if you'retrying to get into north of LA
in that area. So,
Jennie Flaming (09:26):
so LA area, but not lax, because then you're
dealing with sort of urbanthings that are not what you're
there for, unless that is whatyou're there. That's great. And
Craig Romano (09:37):
the thing is, would you look at it all if
you're going you might get abetter manifesto. All those
airports are all non stopflights from SeaTac, yeah, you
know, you know, there might bemore going to LAX. And the thing
is, you want to look at otherthings too, because in LAX,
you're going to be right therein the city. If you're planning
on driving farther out, it'sgoing to be more difficult to
get out. The other thing, ifyou're looking at rental cars,
(09:59):
can. Pair of the prices. So youwant to look at all these same
thing, hotels. But the otherthing too, and I mentioned, I go
to Ontario a lot. I find it veryeasy. It's a very mellow
airports and a great locationthat I can get out really
quickly outside. And also toPalm Springs. Palm Springs is
only a little over an hour, anhour and a half drive there,
because sometimes those flightsto Palm Springs might be more
(10:21):
expensive, not as many. So I useOntario as a great, a great way
to get to Palm Springs and toSan Diego. I've used it to get
to San Diego too. It's only anhour south to get to San Diego
County. Yeah, it's pretty easy.
So that is my number one airportthat I use.
Jennie Flaming (10:35):
And I was just looking up while you were
talking Craig. So also, ifyou're further north, so those
airports all have direct flightsfrom SeaTac, there's also a
direct flight to Orange County,LAX and Palm Springs and San
Diego from Everett, yes, frompain field on Alaska Airlines.
(10:55):
So that's another option forthose of you who are further
north.
Craig Romano (10:58):
And if you're in Portland, they have flights
Ontario as well. Yeah, yep,cool.
Jennie Flaming (11:02):
And Spokane. I didn't look that one up, but
Spokane has some dry flights tothat area too. Okay, so now that
I'm here in Orange County,Ontario, Burbank Riverside area,
tell us about a few of yourfavorite hikes there, Craig and
what makes them great for thistime of year? Yeah. So
Craig Romano (11:22):
you have to remember too, even though it's
Southern California's weather,the mountains are still getting
snow, yeah. So you're not goingto be going up into the San
Gabriels, even the Santa Anas Isee, will have snow. So there's
gonna be snow in the highcountry. The desert is
absolutely perfect for that timeof year. And I've been to Joshua
Tree in February and March,marches is going to be a little
(11:43):
bit warmer, Yeah, but you'regetting the flowers, yeah?
Jennie Flaming (11:46):
And that's when the crowds get really intense.
So tell us. But
Craig Romano (11:49):
the other thing I should tell you, too, if you've
ever if you've never been, ifyou've never been. So the great
thing about Joshua Tree is thatyou can stay in Palm Springs, so
you don't have to camp. Becausecamping might be, it might be
difficult. You might not want tobring the gear. It might be
difficult just because might becrowd at the time. So you can
actually stay in Palm Springs,or any of those areas in the
huccella Valley. There's so manydifferent places you can stay
(12:11):
there. Yeah, and you're going tobe 4000 feet lower than Joshua
Tree, which means it's 80degrees in Palm Springs. It's
not going to be 80 degrees inJoshua Tree. Yeah. It might only
be in the 50s up there. Yeah. Sothe weather is very, very nice
during that time. So the samething, most people are going to
go to the most popular areas inthe park, but just venture out
(12:34):
to some of the the places on onthe periphery, you know, like
the Morongo Canyon area, whenyou first come in there, that's
not getting a lot of crowds. Andthe irony is that's actually
closer to Palm Springs, buteveryone's heading into the into
the main areas, so so definitelycheck that. And if you want to
really see something, aninteresting area that's not in
(12:54):
the National Park, there's aplace called whitewater Canyon
preserve, and it's actually anational monument, and President
Obama declared it in 2009 it'spart of the sands to snow
National Monument. Sands beingthe desert, yes, the snow being
sang or Gonio, which is thehighest peak in Southern
California. It's 11 and a half1000 feet. You're in this desert
(13:15):
with Joshua trees. You'relooking up at snow cap peak.
It's just, it's, it's anamazing, you know, landscape,
yeah, and, and the PCT actuallygoes through there in that area.
And so that connects JoshuaTree. And so the national forest
that is an amazing place to gohiking in there. And there's,
there's an interpretive center.
I don't find that plate, thatarea very crowded, something
Morongo Canyon outside of JoshuaTree. This, there's the Bucha
(13:39):
palms, which is another it's aconservancy that runs it.
There'll be a lot of peopleright when you get there to at
the Visitor Center and theOasis, they said, these are
California Palms. These are thenative palm trees the oasis. But
you can hike several miles toget into these natural where,
again, you're going to be onlywith a handful of people. Cool.
So, so these are really cool.
(14:01):
You know, when you're in OrangeCounty in California, the palm
trees that are growing along theroads, those are all from
somewhere else. Those aren'tnative palms. The California
native palms are crazy or fanthey have all these fan leaves
that come out. They're crazy,looking cool. And they grow in
these oasis that are in, thatare in, in the desert. And
they're amazing. The hike tosome of those this also, we're
gonna see a lot of the wildlifedesert, Big Horn, you know, the
(14:22):
chuck Wallace, the lizards,things like that, yeah, some
really cool stuff. And thelizards are really cool.
Totally, the chuck walls arereally cool. So these are all
there's another area outside of,outside of the Coachella Valley
Mecca, which is the meccaCanyon. It's a BLM area.
There's, there's ladders you canget into these areas, these
little canyon, Canyon hiking.
There are so many places they'resame thing in the Santa Rosa
(14:46):
mountains. They're just south ofPalm Springs. There are so many
trails in that area. So again,you can use, use Palm Springs,
Indio, Palm Desert, any of thoseareas as your base. Yeah. And go
in a place to check out theSalton Sea. The Salton Sea is
fascinating, you know, I
Jennie Flaming (15:06):
have been there, but it was in the summer, so the
hiking was out of the
Craig Romano (15:10):
classroom. So, so you want to go to the Sonny
Bono, you know, you'll behumming 60 tunes, you know, I
got you, babe and all that theSonny Bono National Wildlife
Refuge. You know it Sonny. Hewas a congressman from
California in that area, and hewas also the mayor of Palm
Springs for a while. He actuallywas pretty big on trying to
protect the Salton Sea becausethere's a lot of threats the
(15:33):
bird. The birding isunbelievable in there the so we
spent some time at that NationalWildlife Refuge. Cool. There's
great, easy, family friendlytrails to do. The burning is
amazing in there. So that's aplace you want to check out as
well. Yeah, for sure.
Jennie Flaming (15:47):
Love it. Have you, Craig, have you been to
Death Valley National Park?
Craig Romano (15:51):
You know, I've only biked through the periphery
of it. I have not hiked. It'sit's on my it's on my list. We
keep saying we got to get inthere. So I me too a whole
Jennie Flaming (16:01):
I've also, I have been to Death Valley, but
it was during the summer. Well,I mean, it was part of a bigger
road trip, and it was like, youknow, you just try to get
through there in the middle ofthe night and survive, but not
die. Um, but someday we'll do an
Craig Romano (16:19):
episode about that. And Death Valley is huge.
It's one of the biggest nationalparks, and it gets a fraction of
the people that Joshua Tree. Butanother place between them,
again, is the Mojave national,National Preserve, I believe it.
Yeah, and that's another place.
There's so many places off thebeaten track. Yep, there's some
of the biggest dune complexes inthe country. Yeah, check out
this near Barstow, betweenBarstow and 29 palms, there's,
(16:41):
there's lots of, yes, lots ofplaces in those areas. Too
Jennie Flaming (16:47):
Cool. Those are great suggestions. Okay, are
there other places in that area?
So I'm getting kind of a themeof, you know, desert, DESERT
hiking is pretty great. HighCountry hiking is kind of off
the table because of snow,unless you want a snow
adventure. And are there anyother kind of general types of
(17:08):
hikes? There are areas thatyou'd recommend? Yeah.
Craig Romano (17:13):
I mean, just even right within the whole urban the
urban hike area. So one of myI'll tell you one, a couple of
two, fascinating places more inthe valley, where all the people
are, that's just going to blowyou away. If you want to see
what Southern California lookedlike before statehood, you know,
all the settlement andeverything, I've got two places
to send you, because what'samazing is the biological
(17:36):
diversity in Southern Californiais incredible. Yet, with 20
million people, I mean, youknow, it's so much has been
fragmented hurt, but Chino HillsState Park. So Chino Hills, it's
about 30,000 acres State Park.
It is right where LA County, SanBernardino, Riverside County,
all meet. You are surrounded byall the cities you can hike
there. There are miles and milesof hiking trails in this area,
(18:00):
old growth, Californiasycamores, old growth live oaks
in the amazing I was just downthere last year. In March, I was
staying in Brea, right next toAnaheim. So everyone's going to
Disneyland. We're going hikingand all day hiking in this area
on a absolutely Blue, Blue BirdDay, we ran into 12 people, wow,
surrounded by 20 million. Yeah.
(18:24):
And how far were you fromDisneyland? You 15 air miles.
You know, you know, you couldsee when you get to the top of
the summit San Juan Hill, thehighest point in the in the
Chino Hills. You can seeAnaheim. You can see the ocean,
yeah, you can see all the citiesaround you. But you can also,
when you're in certain positionswhere you can't see the cities,
(18:45):
right? All you see across arethe hills, these golden, golden
grassy hills, and then the SanGabriel Mountains, 10,000 feet
across. You know, you see SanJuan Santo, San Gorgonia, to the
east, and you see the Santa Anasto the south, and and you don't
see, it's amazing. Of course,there's airplanes, you know,
landing everything, but you can,you can see what this area must
(19:06):
have looked like, yeah, youknow, 200 years ago, yeah, you
know, during the haciendas andall that. Yeah, it's just, it's
an amazing experience, ChinoHills. And love it, places that
you can access that from. Soit's been one of the big
conservation areas that they Ithink, I think the State Park
was only developed in the 80s,because, again, just seeing all
(19:29):
this development coming. Theother place I love is just
outside of Temecula and inMarietta. This is in Riverside
County, but right on the SanDiego County border, it's called
Santa Rosa ecological Preserve.
Same text, about 10,000 acres,80 miles of trails, old and old
growth. You know this the doughgrowth trees are incredible. In
there, these beautiful, coollive oaks. And there's two, two
(19:51):
of the oldest buildings in thearea, or in their two Adobes.
And they're fascinating becausethey're only. A few years apart,
but one was built when that waspart of Mexico, and the other
one when it was California. Sothe history in that area, but
it's the same thing. Most of thetime, you're on this plateau,
you're above Temecula, whichTemecula has got over 100,000
(20:12):
people. Myriad has got over100,000 people. You don't see
any of that. All you see in themountains. You see what what it
used to look like, if from onehigh Summit, when the high
Summit, you could just van aclear day, you could see the San
Diego skyline, 30 miles. Reallycool, but it is an incredible
place. There's coyotes all overthe place. I remember taking my
son hiking there when he wasabout three years old, and he
(20:35):
just was enamored with all thescat that was all over the
place. Never seen so much coyotescatter. You know, the dog poop
trail for him. Thenthese are the places I love.
There's so many of them downthere, and they're not getting
the a lot of the locals aren'teven going to these places,
yeah. So, so I love these. Andit's same thing if you're in the
(20:56):
San Diego area, one that Icouldn't believe we'd spent
almost all day at this areawhere nobody was on the beach.
And I'll tell you why you'retalking about Tijuana, after the
Tijuana National EstuaryPreserve. So this is the
Southern, one of the southernmost beaches in California. You
got, you've got the borderbeach, and then the Tijuana
(21:17):
estuary reserve, and it's thesame. And the thing is, because
the the same of the bird life isincredible in there, but the
Tijuana River is polluted. It'sfar because it's coming in from
Mexico. It flows intoCalifornia. So a lot is that
Jennie Flaming (21:33):
the river that is the border at some isn't
there snowboard. It just, yeah,it's all
Craig Romano (21:40):
in the US. It just, it starts in Mexico and
kind of it flows north, okay? Itflows Northwest, yep, yep. So it
empties out right in San DiegoCounty. Yeah, you have mission.
So Mission Bay is to the north,which is a pretty popular place,
and I can picture, so the river.
So a lot of people even warnyou, you know, you don't want to
go in the water or anythingthere. Yeah, the birds don't pay
(22:00):
attention that they have a setsand everything. Are all over the
place. But nobody's walking thatbeach. Matter of fact, it was so
funny when we were down here thelast time we were walking, we
got interviewed by a TV crewbecause we're out there hiking,
because there's nobody here.
We're doing Yeah? You can andyou can hike. You keep hiking on
this and you can see the Mexicanborder. You can actually see the
border wall goes into the ocean,yeah? And you can see on the
(22:23):
other side the buildings in it.
So you're right on and on theTijuana, Mexico side, it's all
urbanized. You've got, you couldsee, you know, huge buildings.
And then you're in thispreserve, yeah, California.
Jennie Flaming (22:33):
So, no, that's so interesting, because I've
been to that spot on the Mexicoside, and, um, it is a really
beautiful beach, but you'reright there are tall buildings
kind of right next to you. AndI've always found that spot
really kind of complicated,because it's so beautiful. And
(22:54):
at the same time, like, I just,you know, the times that, like I
said, I've been there, have beenon the Mexico side, and, you
know, the the wall, it is awall, yep, um, you know, it kind
of lands differently when you'reon the southern side of it. But
I just, yeah, that's, I don'tthink I knew that you could get
(23:18):
up close to that on the US youcould actually
Craig Romano (23:21):
walk this a state park border this on the
California you can hike rightalong the wall and shake hands
with people on the side,
Jennie Flaming (23:27):
it's crazy.
Yeah, it's a little on thesouthern side, it's intimidating
to get close to it. But, yeah, Imean, I've been pretty close to
it, and I'm an American, ofcourse, but as I think everyone
knows, but you know, I've beenthere with people who are mostly
with people who are notAmericans, or a group of
Americans and Mexicans and,yeah. So that's cool to know
(23:50):
that there's a park there on theCalifornia side. I didn't even
know that it's
Craig Romano (23:55):
a national, National Estuary preserve like
Padilla Bay, yeah. And so itmeans very, very ecologically
important. And yet people aren'tgoing there again. They're going
to Mission Bay. Yeah. The otherplace, of course, probably the
most popular place in San Diegofor be instant amazing, is
Torrey Pines State Park and LaJolla. So La Jolla is the exact
opposite, very, very upscale.
It's really nice in it, yeah.
(24:19):
But Torrey Pines, the Dory pinetree. It only grows in one
place, right here in SouthernCalifornia, cool and so they
preserved in this area too. It'sall headlands and cliffs. It's a
beautiful state park. You canhike The Headlands. There's all
kinds of rare plants and birds.
And then you can hike the beachin here, and you'll be hiking
along these cliffs. You're notgoing to see any urban
development. Is actually asanctioned clothing optional
(24:41):
beach here too, because that'sblack speech. So if you're, if
you know, depending on how youhow you feel, on that you can
keep hiking or not. So TorreyPines is a great place. If
you've never been there. It'sone of the most beautiful places
in San Diego County. North ofthere, you start getting to more
develop. Developed Beach,though, the beaches are nice,
though, but you're not going tohave a stretch where above you
(25:03):
is no development, until you getto San Onofre, which is near
Pendleton, so that's beenpreserved because of the Marine
Base. Yeah, so there's good Butsame thing there, though, you've
got a highway that's very close.
You're gonna hear the highwaynotes, but you're gonna have
some amazing beach walkingthere. Yeah, and then going to
San Clemente to the north, hassome beautiful beaches, cool to
(25:26):
hike as well. I mean, again,there's so many places. I know
Jennie Flaming (25:29):
there's so many so well, maybe we'll have to
make this an annual tradition.
Craig Romano (25:34):
I'm always going down there, Southern California,
hiking, hiking, new places togo. I mean, I try to do
different places every time I godown there, yeah,
Jennie Flaming (25:42):
love it all right. Well, thanks so much for
sharing all those wonderfulplaces with us. Craig, you.
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