July 12, 2019 • 25 mins
If you're anything like us, you might feel overwhelmed by the inequality in the world, but feel unsure of how to take action. We invite you to join us as we take off on a journey to become better allies. Listen in to get to know your hosts Gaby and Jenelle as they learn practical strategies from real-world leaders to actively advocate for underrepresented and marginalized groups.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Gaby (00:00):
It starts with what we do have control over— and that's
the direct communities that we're involved in and that's
leveraging our own power to helplift other people up in the way
that we have access to.
Hola Hola, it's Gaby Acosta.
Jenelle (00:21):
And I’m Jenelle Acosta.
We're high school sweethearts ona journey to be better allies.
Gaby (00:27):
You're listening to The Way We Lead where we talk about
inclusive leadership, allyship,and advocacy with folks across
identities, industries,andexperiences.
Jenelle (00:37):
If you're new here, you can follow us on Facebook,
Instagram, and Twitter using thehandle@thewaywelead.
Gaby (00:44):
We're glad you're here.
Let's jump in.
Hello, lovely listeners.
It's Gaby and welcome to episodezero.
I am here to talk to you alittle bit about what we're all
about and share with you whatyou can expect at The Way We
Lead podcast.
I decided to create this podcastto feature real world stories of
(01:09):
inclusive leadership, allyshipand highlight folks who use
their influence to raise othersup.
Diversity, inclusion, and issuesof equity and social justice
have always been a huge part ofwho I am.
It's really close to my heartand I've always known that I
wanted to work in this field insome capacity.
During College., at Smith I wasinvolved with several identity
(01:29):
based organizations and theirleadership orgs and I also got
to be a part of working for themulticultural affairs
department.
Then after college I gotinvolved with several public
service organizations where Ifacilitated diversity and
inclusion workshops forAmericorps or international
partners and I spent some timeworking for several nonprofits,
(01:51):
focused on empowering the Latinxcommunity and I thought that was
really where I was going tobuild my career.
But for my first truly salariedjob out of college, I ended up
working for an educationtechnology company where I got
to develop social justicefocused campaigns for big name
institutions of highereducation.
And it was at this company thatI had the opportunity to join a
diversity and inclusioncommittee where I helped to
(02:12):
launch their first everidentity-based employer resource
networks(ERGs).
Almost a decade later with sevenpromotions and a master's degree
in communications under my belt,I realized that as I was moving
up, I was also getting furtherand further away from the topic
that brought me to the companyin the first place.
I eventually got to a moment inmy career where I had to take a
(02:34):
pause and reflect upon reallywhat it was that I wanted to do.
It was at that point that Irealized that I just didn't want
to wait for somebody to give mepermission to follow my passion
to talk about the things thatreally mattered to me.
And so with the support from myincredible wife, I left my job
at this May to start a businessat the intersection of
(02:56):
storytelling and inclusion.
I asked Jenelle to join me as mycohost because we both cared
deeply about these topics, andto be honest, we talk about them
almost every day.
And so in this episode zero, wedecided to give you a little bit
of a peek behind the curtain towitness our journey firsthand
and see what it looks like whentwo people make an intention to
(03:17):
become better allies.
Here it goes.
Jenelle (03:21):
One of the main reasons that I'm doing this podcast is
because people are reallyfascinating, confusing, complex
creatures to me.
And I'm interested in howpeople's perspectives and their
upbringing and their traumas andtheir experiences have created
(03:46):
what they believe, what they doand what they think.
You and I have theseconversations a lot.
You and I are both very heady.
Uh, I grew up with a philosopherof a father and a lawyer of a
mother.
And so I have learned my entirelife to think critically and
know that what is in front of meisn't necessarily black and
(04:08):
white.
Right?
There's usually a story behindsomething.
And you and I have theseconversations all the time.
And so I'm excited to take theseconversations that you and I
have and take them outside ofthis house.
Yeah.
Gaby (04:22):
And personally I come from parents who are also
sociologists and a lot of myfamily line is in education and
it feels very much like, notonly did I want to learn how to
be a better ally myself, but Iwant it to be able to share that
with others through pulling thecurtain.
(04:45):
You know, understanding what itlooks like to strive to be a
better ally because we are notperfect.
Jenelle (04:51):
no...
Gaby (04:51):
We have very positive intentions and we have always
wanted to be good allies and Ithink we do our best, but we can
always do better.
Jenelle (05:02):
Yeah.
In our experience growing up andlearning about these things, I
became more aware of otherpeople rather than myself.
I think we all grow up asegocentric.
Egomaniac is that you believethe world revolves around you.
Egocentric is means that you'repaying attention to yourself and
(05:25):
every single person isegocentric, is growing up,
right?
I'm looking at what do I need,what's my wants, what, um, what
are my desires and less of whatother people think.
And I think as we grow up,hopefully we can learn to be
less egocentric and moreempathetic.
In my experience, I have learnedhow to be more empathetic
(05:47):
towards other people, not onlybecause of my own trauma in my
childhood, but also from ourexperience of learning through
other people.
And so when I look at thingslike racism, sexism, homophobia,
I'm so confused why people havea hard time being supportive,
(06:17):
right?
So it's, it's really hard for meto understand somebody who
believes that you and I shouldnot be married.
Why they have that belief wherethat comes from.
And I want to understand morewhy that might be happening.
But the other side of that ishow do we help people and how do
(06:39):
we support people?
And in order to to do that, I, Ithink I know what it means to be
a nice person, to be a kindperson.
Um, but I can only live thatworld from my perspective and
what I believe is nice and kind.
And so I want to understand whatother people would define as
(07:00):
allyship.
Um, because what I, allyshiplooks to me does not look like
allyship to other people.
And so I need to understand whatthat is and why, why is really
important to me?
Why is that the belief?
Where does that come from?
And also I think tied into thatis, I know I can do better.
(07:23):
I am not a good ally tocommunities that are other than
me.
I know that I know I can bebetter.
And so I'm really excited tohave this opportunity to listen
to people who have, I meanexperts in this, people who have
been in situations where theyhave to navigate this, their own
(07:45):
personal situations, people whohave done research on these
types of topics just tounderstand not only their
perspective of the situation,but a broader understanding of
what's going on.
Not only for me to have waysthat I can be a better ally to
communities that I'm not a partof, but also to help our
(08:07):
audience learn how to do that aswell.
Because I don't think that theseconversations happen enough and
I'm really excited to becultivating these conversations
for other people.
Gaby (08:21):
Yeah.
And talking to folks who areeveryday leaders who demonstrate
what it looks like to createchange at their own fingertips.
Right.
This is, um, something that mymentor at Smith College, The
Dean of Students, DeanOhotnicky, when I felt
(08:41):
overwhelmed with all of thestrife in the world, this was
back when Occupy Wall Street wasgoing on and Arab spring, and
there were several incidents oncampus.
And I was feeling all of theworld's pressures on my
(09:01):
shoulders at that point.
Like suddenly I was like there'sso much wrong in the world, how
can we possibly make adifference?
And she reminded me that itstarts with what we do have
control over and that's thedirect communities that we're
(09:22):
involved in.
And that's leveraging our ownpower to help lift other people
up in the way that we haveaccess to.
And we all have different typesof power.
All of us do, no matter who weare, while also having our own
types of marginalization andunderrepresentation.
And it's important to me thatthrough this conversation and
(09:46):
the subsequent conversationsthat are going to come from
this, that we start tounderstand that those dynamics
mean that even though I'mmarginalized in one way, that
I'm a daughter of an immigrantand an immigrant myself and we
have a same sex marriage.
That to me is, that's mymarginalization.
(10:08):
That's something that otherslook to and potentially feel
threatened by.
However, I also have privilegesand I think we discussed this
all the time.
We all have privilege.
It's about acknowledging thatprivilege and the power and the
access to resources that we haveand figuring out how we can
(10:29):
leverage those to make sure thatothers can move forward and up.
Jenelle (10:35):
Yeah.
I think I struggle a lot with myown privilege and trying to
understand how I can use myprivilege to support other
communities and I think I tryreally hard to do that, but
there's a lot of, uh, I'mscared.
(10:55):
That's the honest answer.
I'm scared that I'm not going todo it right or I'm going to be
rejected.
Um, and so I am reallyinterested to learn what people
believe is the way to do that soI can feel more confident in
taking those steps.
And even already in starting tohave these conversations, I've
noticed myself start to feelmore confident in having these
(11:22):
conversations outside of thishouse.
I mean I already always have,but I feel more confident in
doing that and in identifyingspaces where I need to speak up
and I need to be an ally andidentifying opportunities for me
to apply that.
Whether it's community servicein the community that I work in
(11:43):
or whether it's signing apetition for something that I
normally wouldn't sign cause I'mnot paying attention to it.
So this, this is forcing me tohave to pay attention to what's
going on around me and make surethat I'm an active participant
in it rather than just a watcherof the world around me.
Gaby (12:00):
Yeah.
I think a goal for me is if wecan create a community of our
listeners and guests of folkswho feel comfortable and
confident having challengingconversations around these
topics around diversity andinclusion, and belonging, and
(12:26):
social justice.
That's huge for me.
Just being able to encourageothers to start participating in
the conversation a and then beconfident in taking action.
That means a lot to me and weboth say if just one person
(12:48):
comes out of these conversationswith us, these these episodes
with us and this journey thatwe're on, and is willing to take
just one more step closer tobeing a good ally and advocate,
that's all worth it for me.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Yeah.
I don't think it's a realisticexpectation for us to believe
that we're going to change theworld, but if we can change some
then I'd be a pretty happycamper.
Gaby (13:14):
Yeah.
I'm, I really just want toinspire others to join us on our
journey.
Jenelle (13:20):
Yeah, and I think, I'm really knowing the guests that
we're gonna have.
I'm really excited.
Gaby (13:28):
Yeah I'm so excited!
Jenelle (13:30):
And I think that there's going to be some cool
things out of this.
Gaby (13:33):
We've got an amazing lineup of guests from local
leaders to national leaders andfolks who identify on a full
spectrum of diversity anddifferent identities and also
who have heady conversationsaround this really theoretical
(13:55):
and also really practical.
And that's really what I want todo with this podcast.
The Way We Lead is practical tome it's about taking what could
be challenging to interpret andunderstanding how to make it
actionable and how to make itapplicable to our everyday lives
(14:19):
so that we can be and become theallies that we want to be.
Jenelle (14:23):
So one of the things that I say to you, I think every
morning after I'm scrollingthrough and reading the news is
like, what do we do?
Like the world seems so fuckedup right now.
And like, what do I do?
And you and I in particular canget really heady about these
things because we've, I mean,you more so than me have studied
(14:45):
this, but I also studied this inschool as well.
And being a psychology major, Ialso studied what trauma does to
individuals.
And so sometimes it gets really,let's talk about the problem,
but let's not talk about stepsto solutions.
And not saying that we're goingto be able to solve the world's
(15:05):
problems, but I'm really excitedto listen to other people and
just get those tangibles of whatdoes support look like?
What does allyship look like?
And being able to to giveourselves something to do, but
also something that our audiencecan take with them as well.
Gaby (15:26):
Absolutely.
I want to hear from all of ourguests what a tangible step for
us to take would mean to them,when, what that look like for
them and understanding whatallyship looks like to each of
them.
I think that will help us startto narrow down the scope of
(15:47):
something that could be reallyoverwhelming and scary and take
it and understand it on a morepractical level.
Like from an empathetic space,having so many hearing from
someone directly say, you can bea good ally to me just by doing
this, doing more of whatever itis.
(16:10):
That's helpful to me because itstarts to narrow the picture of,
okay, if I want to be a goodally to someone in this
community or this individualthat we had on, then I can try
to be more like this.
But I really want to encourage,because we're not trying to
tokenize anybody, no one's hereto represent their entire
(16:31):
community.
I want to socialize and trainfolks to just start asking the
question when they'reoverwhelmed and feeling like
they're not sure how to be agood ally, to just start asking
the question of other people andsay, how can I be a good ally to
you in this?
Like you're going through astruggle.
I want to understand how I canhelp.
Jenelle (16:52):
I have a really silly example of this.
I am a director at my job.
I run a team of, I don't know,maybe 15 people and uh, the job
that they do is hard.
It's stressful.
It is draining.
Burnout is real.
(17:12):
I had an employee, this week Ithink it was, who was really
struggling and I could see ontheir face just how draining
that week was.
Uh, they had a lot that they hadto do a lot to manage.
And so I remember almost everyday when I saw this face of
like,"oh, I can't, I don't wantto anymore.
(17:33):
I can't do this.
This is tough.
I just want to go home".
I would stand up and go, I seethat this is hard for you today.
How can I support you?
And they were very cute andbeing like, you are supporting
me just by asking that question.
But I mean, it's goes to showthat you need to be able to ask
it.
(17:54):
And it's not just in times ofneed, it's all the time, right?
Like we don't just need help intimes of need.
We need help every day and weneed to know that somebody's
there for us every day.
So how can we do that?
Gaby (18:07):
I love that.
That's a perfect example.
Like allyship.
It doesn't have to be ininvolved in these narratives
that we overemphasize in themedia.
It can be as simple as askingsomeone we know and love or
support or work with,"How can Ihelp you?
(18:29):
How can I be better?
A better friend, a better familymember, a better ally to you?"
Jenelle (18:36):
Yeah.
Cause it's, I think anotherthing for me is making this, I
want to look at this from ahumanistic perspective.
It's not just we're talking somuch about how the guests here
are going to be talking fromtheir own personal experiences.
They cannot speak for everybody.
They can only speak forthemselves.
And so what that really doesmean is that we need in your own
(18:58):
life, in my own life, to my ownfriends and the people that I
work with, the people I look upto, the my family members to ask
them, how can I best supportyou?
Because if I just make theassumption that this person fits
in this box and so I can alwayssupport that type of person in
(19:19):
this way is just wrong.
And so I need it.
This is a lesson in practicinghaving conversations with
individuals about how to besupportive of the individual.
Gaby (19:33):
Yeah.
And I also want to point outsomething that we're not, we are
not a radical group, you know,we're not going to be tearing
down entire systems through thispodcast.
No, I don't have that kind ofpower.
But I think if we can inspireindividuals to start acting as a
(19:56):
community towards a goal whichis being a better allies to
other people and identify foryou what that looks like and
feels like and what space, whatcause you care about.
There's not one causenecessarily that we're trying to
promote other than being betterto each other as humans.
(20:16):
And Yeah, like we will sharepersonally, Jenelle and I have a
lot of causes and areas that wecare about, but they don't have
to be your causes.
They don't have to be what youcare about.
I just want you to understand aslisteners that you are here as
(20:38):
part of our community ofunderstanding allyship and that
should be applied to whateverworld you live in, whatever
causes you care about.
And hopefully by doing so morepeople will be active.
More people will call theirsenators and their
representatives and um, theirlocal politicians or stand up,
(21:01):
participate in their own, um,community activism in whatever
way that looks like for you.
That's really what we careabout.
Jenelle (21:10):
My last thought is that I, I want to make the statement
that I do not feel like I knowwhat I'm doing.
And that's a weird thing to say.
Um, but I, I don't define myselfas an expert.
I don't define myself as aperfect ally.
These conversations will bescary for me.
(21:34):
Um, I as a person who, whoreally seeks the approval of
others, I'm constantly, evenwhen we're going over this
little stuff, so focused on, amI saying the right thing and I'm
going to try to work on kind ofletting that go a little bit
more because I want to show thatyou don't have to always know
(21:56):
the right things to say or havethe right words to start to have
these conversations.
I think you and I have some moreof the language than others
might have just because we havelived in this world and had
these types of conversations forso long, but I all the time
don't feel like I know the rightwords to say and I don't know
(22:18):
the right way to approachthings.
And so I'm gonna stumble overmyself a lot and I'm working on
being okay with that because I'malso a little bit of a
perfectionist.
But I'm going to fuck up and Iwant, if you are a listener who
is also saying like these twowomen seem to know what they're
(22:39):
talking about and how am Isupposed to have these
conversations if I don't knowwhat I'm talking about?
That's not the point, right?
The point is to help you startto understand what's going on.
So maybe you can take at leastsome of this into your own
everyday world and have some ofthese conversations as well.
And I hope that I'll talk and Istatements.
Again, I'm hoping that I can bean example to you of somebody
(23:01):
who does not know the rightthing to do, say all the time
and how you can still workthrough having these
conversations if you're in thatspace.
Gaby (23:13):
I would argue that the most important piece when when
discussing diversity inclusionis that none of us know all the
answers.
I don't feel like an expert.
I think you're an expert a lotof the time, but I would argue I
have spent a lot of timeinvested in learning about this
(23:35):
stuff, but I don't think anyonecan know everything.
And I would argue that a part ofit is learning how to listen,
learning how to empathize andlearning that policy
formalization of rules andaction in work in your community
(24:03):
and your life is directly goingto impact how we lift other
people up.
And I don't know the answers.
I don't know exactly how toapply all policy, but that's why
we look to the experts.
That's why we talk to ourguests.
That's why we call uponresearchers.
(24:25):
And that's why we call upontheorists, but we are not
theorist.
We are not researchers and weare not academics.
We're here to have conversationsthat will hopefully help us be
in practice good allies to otherpeople who look and experience
the world differently than wedo.
(24:46):
Thank you for joining us here,uh, on our episode zero to get
to know us a little bit better.
Next week you'll get to hear ustalk about our agreements or
what we're calling communityground rules moving forward,
you'll get to join us here everyother week to hear from our
awesome lineup of guests whowill be joining us to talk about
their perspective on allyship.
Help us get started by sharingyour thoughts with us.
(25:09):
We'd love to hear from you,share your topic ideas or guests
referrals by submitting a voicememo or a note on our contact us
page on thewaywelead.com.
This episode was written andproduced by me, Gab y Acosta,
thanks to the best cohost in theworld, Jenelle Acosta.
Our music was written andproduced by the phenomenal Emily
(25:32):
Henry.
And starting next week, listento the end to hear Jenelle sing
the names of our seed fundsponsors in our credit, so stay
tuned for that.
We can't wait to see you then.
It starts with what we do have control over— and that's
the direct communities that we're involved in and that's
leveraging our own power to helplift other people up in the way
that we have access to.
Hola Hola, it's Gaby Acosta.
Jenelle (00:21):
And I’m Jenelle Acosta.
We're high school sweethearts ona journey to be better allies.
Gaby (00:27):
You're listening to The Way We Lead where we talk about
inclusive leadership, allyship,and advocacy with folks across
identities, industries,andexperiences.
Jenelle (00:37):
If you're new here, you can follow us on Facebook,
Instagram, and Twitter using thehandle@thewaywelead.
Gaby (00:44):
We're glad you're here.
Let's jump in.
Hello, lovely listeners.
It's Gaby and welcome to episodezero.
I am here to talk to you alittle bit about what we're all
about and share with you whatyou can expect at The Way We
Lead podcast.
I decided to create this podcastto feature real world stories of
(01:09):
inclusive leadership, allyshipand highlight folks who use
their influence to raise othersup.
Diversity, inclusion, and issuesof equity and social justice
have always been a huge part ofwho I am.
It's really close to my heartand I've always known that I
wanted to work in this field insome capacity.
During College., at Smith I wasinvolved with several identity
(01:29):
based organizations and theirleadership orgs and I also got
to be a part of working for themulticultural affairs
department.
Then after college I gotinvolved with several public
service organizations where Ifacilitated diversity and
inclusion workshops forAmericorps or international
partners and I spent some timeworking for several nonprofits,
(01:51):
focused on empowering the Latinxcommunity and I thought that was
really where I was going tobuild my career.
But for my first truly salariedjob out of college, I ended up
working for an educationtechnology company where I got
to develop social justicefocused campaigns for big name
institutions of highereducation.
And it was at this company thatI had the opportunity to join a
diversity and inclusioncommittee where I helped to
(02:12):
launch their first everidentity-based employer resource
networks(ERGs).
Almost a decade later with sevenpromotions and a master's degree
in communications under my belt,I realized that as I was moving
up, I was also getting furtherand further away from the topic
that brought me to the companyin the first place.
I eventually got to a moment inmy career where I had to take a
(02:34):
pause and reflect upon reallywhat it was that I wanted to do.
It was at that point that Irealized that I just didn't want
to wait for somebody to give mepermission to follow my passion
to talk about the things thatreally mattered to me.
And so with the support from myincredible wife, I left my job
at this May to start a businessat the intersection of
(02:56):
storytelling and inclusion.
I asked Jenelle to join me as mycohost because we both cared
deeply about these topics, andto be honest, we talk about them
almost every day.
And so in this episode zero, wedecided to give you a little bit
of a peek behind the curtain towitness our journey firsthand
and see what it looks like whentwo people make an intention to
(03:17):
become better allies.
Here it goes.
Jenelle (03:21):
One of the main reasons that I'm doing this podcast is
because people are reallyfascinating, confusing, complex
creatures to me.
And I'm interested in howpeople's perspectives and their
upbringing and their traumas andtheir experiences have created
(03:46):
what they believe, what they doand what they think.
You and I have theseconversations a lot.
You and I are both very heady.
Uh, I grew up with a philosopherof a father and a lawyer of a
mother.
And so I have learned my entirelife to think critically and
know that what is in front of meisn't necessarily black and
(04:08):
white.
Right?
There's usually a story behindsomething.
And you and I have theseconversations all the time.
And so I'm excited to take theseconversations that you and I
have and take them outside ofthis house.
Yeah.
Gaby (04:22):
And personally I come from parents who are also
sociologists and a lot of myfamily line is in education and
it feels very much like, notonly did I want to learn how to
be a better ally myself, but Iwant it to be able to share that
with others through pulling thecurtain.
(04:45):
You know, understanding what itlooks like to strive to be a
better ally because we are notperfect.
Jenelle (04:51):
no...
Gaby (04:51):
We have very positive intentions and we have always
wanted to be good allies and Ithink we do our best, but we can
always do better.
Jenelle (05:02):
Yeah.
In our experience growing up andlearning about these things, I
became more aware of otherpeople rather than myself.
I think we all grow up asegocentric.
Egomaniac is that you believethe world revolves around you.
Egocentric is means that you'repaying attention to yourself and
(05:25):
every single person isegocentric, is growing up,
right?
I'm looking at what do I need,what's my wants, what, um, what
are my desires and less of whatother people think.
And I think as we grow up,hopefully we can learn to be
less egocentric and moreempathetic.
In my experience, I have learnedhow to be more empathetic
(05:47):
towards other people, not onlybecause of my own trauma in my
childhood, but also from ourexperience of learning through
other people.
And so when I look at thingslike racism, sexism, homophobia,
I'm so confused why people havea hard time being supportive,
(06:17):
right?
So it's, it's really hard for meto understand somebody who
believes that you and I shouldnot be married.
Why they have that belief wherethat comes from.
And I want to understand morewhy that might be happening.
But the other side of that ishow do we help people and how do
(06:39):
we support people?
And in order to to do that, I, Ithink I know what it means to be
a nice person, to be a kindperson.
Um, but I can only live thatworld from my perspective and
what I believe is nice and kind.
And so I want to understand whatother people would define as
(07:00):
allyship.
Um, because what I, allyshiplooks to me does not look like
allyship to other people.
And so I need to understand whatthat is and why, why is really
important to me?
Why is that the belief?
Where does that come from?
And also I think tied into thatis, I know I can do better.
(07:23):
I am not a good ally tocommunities that are other than
me.
I know that I know I can bebetter.
And so I'm really excited tohave this opportunity to listen
to people who have, I meanexperts in this, people who have
been in situations where theyhave to navigate this, their own
(07:45):
personal situations, people whohave done research on these
types of topics just tounderstand not only their
perspective of the situation,but a broader understanding of
what's going on.
Not only for me to have waysthat I can be a better ally to
communities that I'm not a partof, but also to help our
(08:07):
audience learn how to do that aswell.
Because I don't think that theseconversations happen enough and
I'm really excited to becultivating these conversations
for other people.
Gaby (08:21):
Yeah.
And talking to folks who areeveryday leaders who demonstrate
what it looks like to createchange at their own fingertips.
Right.
This is, um, something that mymentor at Smith College, The
Dean of Students, DeanOhotnicky, when I felt
(08:41):
overwhelmed with all of thestrife in the world, this was
back when Occupy Wall Street wasgoing on and Arab spring, and
there were several incidents oncampus.
And I was feeling all of theworld's pressures on my
(09:01):
shoulders at that point.
Like suddenly I was like there'sso much wrong in the world, how
can we possibly make adifference?
And she reminded me that itstarts with what we do have
control over and that's thedirect communities that we're
(09:22):
involved in.
And that's leveraging our ownpower to help lift other people
up in the way that we haveaccess to.
And we all have different typesof power.
All of us do, no matter who weare, while also having our own
types of marginalization andunderrepresentation.
And it's important to me thatthrough this conversation and
(09:46):
the subsequent conversationsthat are going to come from
this, that we start tounderstand that those dynamics
mean that even though I'mmarginalized in one way, that
I'm a daughter of an immigrantand an immigrant myself and we
have a same sex marriage.
That to me is, that's mymarginalization.
(10:08):
That's something that otherslook to and potentially feel
threatened by.
However, I also have privilegesand I think we discussed this
all the time.
We all have privilege.
It's about acknowledging thatprivilege and the power and the
access to resources that we haveand figuring out how we can
(10:29):
leverage those to make sure thatothers can move forward and up.
Jenelle (10:35):
Yeah.
I think I struggle a lot with myown privilege and trying to
understand how I can use myprivilege to support other
communities and I think I tryreally hard to do that, but
there's a lot of, uh, I'mscared.
(10:55):
That's the honest answer.
I'm scared that I'm not going todo it right or I'm going to be
rejected.
Um, and so I am reallyinterested to learn what people
believe is the way to do that soI can feel more confident in
taking those steps.
And even already in starting tohave these conversations, I've
noticed myself start to feelmore confident in having these
(11:22):
conversations outside of thishouse.
I mean I already always have,but I feel more confident in
doing that and in identifyingspaces where I need to speak up
and I need to be an ally andidentifying opportunities for me
to apply that.
Whether it's community servicein the community that I work in
(11:43):
or whether it's signing apetition for something that I
normally wouldn't sign cause I'mnot paying attention to it.
So this, this is forcing me tohave to pay attention to what's
going on around me and make surethat I'm an active participant
in it rather than just a watcherof the world around me.
Gaby (12:00):
Yeah.
I think a goal for me is if wecan create a community of our
listeners and guests of folkswho feel comfortable and
confident having challengingconversations around these
topics around diversity andinclusion, and belonging, and
(12:26):
social justice.
That's huge for me.
Just being able to encourageothers to start participating in
the conversation a and then beconfident in taking action.
That means a lot to me and weboth say if just one person
(12:48):
comes out of these conversationswith us, these these episodes
with us and this journey thatwe're on, and is willing to take
just one more step closer tobeing a good ally and advocate,
that's all worth it for me.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Yeah.
I don't think it's a realisticexpectation for us to believe
that we're going to change theworld, but if we can change some
then I'd be a pretty happycamper.
Gaby (13:14):
Yeah.
I'm, I really just want toinspire others to join us on our
journey.
Jenelle (13:20):
Yeah, and I think, I'm really knowing the guests that
we're gonna have.
I'm really excited.
Gaby (13:28):
Yeah I'm so excited!
Jenelle (13:30):
And I think that there's going to be some cool
things out of this.
Gaby (13:33):
We've got an amazing lineup of guests from local
leaders to national leaders andfolks who identify on a full
spectrum of diversity anddifferent identities and also
who have heady conversationsaround this really theoretical
(13:55):
and also really practical.
And that's really what I want todo with this podcast.
The Way We Lead is practical tome it's about taking what could
be challenging to interpret andunderstanding how to make it
actionable and how to make itapplicable to our everyday lives
(14:19):
so that we can be and become theallies that we want to be.
Jenelle (14:23):
So one of the things that I say to you, I think every
morning after I'm scrollingthrough and reading the news is
like, what do we do?
Like the world seems so fuckedup right now.
And like, what do I do?
And you and I in particular canget really heady about these
things because we've, I mean,you more so than me have studied
(14:45):
this, but I also studied this inschool as well.
And being a psychology major, Ialso studied what trauma does to
individuals.
And so sometimes it gets really,let's talk about the problem,
but let's not talk about stepsto solutions.
And not saying that we're goingto be able to solve the world's
(15:05):
problems, but I'm really excitedto listen to other people and
just get those tangibles of whatdoes support look like?
What does allyship look like?
And being able to to giveourselves something to do, but
also something that our audiencecan take with them as well.
Gaby (15:26):
Absolutely.
I want to hear from all of ourguests what a tangible step for
us to take would mean to them,when, what that look like for
them and understanding whatallyship looks like to each of
them.
I think that will help us startto narrow down the scope of
(15:47):
something that could be reallyoverwhelming and scary and take
it and understand it on a morepractical level.
Like from an empathetic space,having so many hearing from
someone directly say, you can bea good ally to me just by doing
this, doing more of whatever itis.
(16:10):
That's helpful to me because itstarts to narrow the picture of,
okay, if I want to be a goodally to someone in this
community or this individualthat we had on, then I can try
to be more like this.
But I really want to encourage,because we're not trying to
tokenize anybody, no one's hereto represent their entire
(16:31):
community.
I want to socialize and trainfolks to just start asking the
question when they'reoverwhelmed and feeling like
they're not sure how to be agood ally, to just start asking
the question of other people andsay, how can I be a good ally to
you in this?
Like you're going through astruggle.
I want to understand how I canhelp.
Jenelle (16:52):
I have a really silly example of this.
I am a director at my job.
I run a team of, I don't know,maybe 15 people and uh, the job
that they do is hard.
It's stressful.
It is draining.
Burnout is real.
(17:12):
I had an employee, this week Ithink it was, who was really
struggling and I could see ontheir face just how draining
that week was.
Uh, they had a lot that they hadto do a lot to manage.
And so I remember almost everyday when I saw this face of
like,"oh, I can't, I don't wantto anymore.
(17:33):
I can't do this.
This is tough.
I just want to go home".
I would stand up and go, I seethat this is hard for you today.
How can I support you?
And they were very cute andbeing like, you are supporting
me just by asking that question.
But I mean, it's goes to showthat you need to be able to ask
it.
(17:54):
And it's not just in times ofneed, it's all the time, right?
Like we don't just need help intimes of need.
We need help every day and weneed to know that somebody's
there for us every day.
So how can we do that?
Gaby (18:07):
I love that.
That's a perfect example.
Like allyship.
It doesn't have to be ininvolved in these narratives
that we overemphasize in themedia.
It can be as simple as askingsomeone we know and love or
support or work with,"How can Ihelp you?
(18:29):
How can I be better?
A better friend, a better familymember, a better ally to you?"
Jenelle (18:36):
Yeah.
Cause it's, I think anotherthing for me is making this, I
want to look at this from ahumanistic perspective.
It's not just we're talking somuch about how the guests here
are going to be talking fromtheir own personal experiences.
They cannot speak for everybody.
They can only speak forthemselves.
And so what that really doesmean is that we need in your own
(18:58):
life, in my own life, to my ownfriends and the people that I
work with, the people I look upto, the my family members to ask
them, how can I best supportyou?
Because if I just make theassumption that this person fits
in this box and so I can alwayssupport that type of person in
(19:19):
this way is just wrong.
And so I need it.
This is a lesson in practicinghaving conversations with
individuals about how to besupportive of the individual.
Gaby (19:33):
Yeah.
And I also want to point outsomething that we're not, we are
not a radical group, you know,we're not going to be tearing
down entire systems through thispodcast.
No, I don't have that kind ofpower.
But I think if we can inspireindividuals to start acting as a
(19:56):
community towards a goal whichis being a better allies to
other people and identify foryou what that looks like and
feels like and what space, whatcause you care about.
There's not one causenecessarily that we're trying to
promote other than being betterto each other as humans.
(20:16):
And Yeah, like we will sharepersonally, Jenelle and I have a
lot of causes and areas that wecare about, but they don't have
to be your causes.
They don't have to be what youcare about.
I just want you to understand aslisteners that you are here as
(20:38):
part of our community ofunderstanding allyship and that
should be applied to whateverworld you live in, whatever
causes you care about.
And hopefully by doing so morepeople will be active.
More people will call theirsenators and their
representatives and um, theirlocal politicians or stand up,
(21:01):
participate in their own, um,community activism in whatever
way that looks like for you.
That's really what we careabout.
Jenelle (21:10):
My last thought is that I, I want to make the statement
that I do not feel like I knowwhat I'm doing.
And that's a weird thing to say.
Um, but I, I don't define myselfas an expert.
I don't define myself as aperfect ally.
These conversations will bescary for me.
(21:34):
Um, I as a person who, whoreally seeks the approval of
others, I'm constantly, evenwhen we're going over this
little stuff, so focused on, amI saying the right thing and I'm
going to try to work on kind ofletting that go a little bit
more because I want to show thatyou don't have to always know
(21:56):
the right things to say or havethe right words to start to have
these conversations.
I think you and I have some moreof the language than others
might have just because we havelived in this world and had
these types of conversations forso long, but I all the time
don't feel like I know the rightwords to say and I don't know
(22:18):
the right way to approachthings.
And so I'm gonna stumble overmyself a lot and I'm working on
being okay with that because I'malso a little bit of a
perfectionist.
But I'm going to fuck up and Iwant, if you are a listener who
is also saying like these twowomen seem to know what they're
(22:39):
talking about and how am Isupposed to have these
conversations if I don't knowwhat I'm talking about?
That's not the point, right?
The point is to help you startto understand what's going on.
So maybe you can take at leastsome of this into your own
everyday world and have some ofthese conversations as well.
And I hope that I'll talk and Istatements.
Again, I'm hoping that I can bean example to you of somebody
(23:01):
who does not know the rightthing to do, say all the time
and how you can still workthrough having these
conversations if you're in thatspace.
Gaby (23:13):
I would argue that the most important piece when when
discussing diversity inclusionis that none of us know all the
answers.
I don't feel like an expert.
I think you're an expert a lotof the time, but I would argue I
have spent a lot of timeinvested in learning about this
(23:35):
stuff, but I don't think anyonecan know everything.
And I would argue that a part ofit is learning how to listen,
learning how to empathize andlearning that policy
formalization of rules andaction in work in your community
(24:03):
and your life is directly goingto impact how we lift other
people up.
And I don't know the answers.
I don't know exactly how toapply all policy, but that's why
we look to the experts.
That's why we talk to ourguests.
That's why we call uponresearchers.
(24:25):
And that's why we call upontheorists, but we are not
theorist.
We are not researchers and weare not academics.
We're here to have conversationsthat will hopefully help us be
in practice good allies to otherpeople who look and experience
the world differently than wedo.
(24:46):
Thank you for joining us here,uh, on our episode zero to get
to know us a little bit better.
Next week you'll get to hear ustalk about our agreements or
what we're calling communityground rules moving forward,
you'll get to join us here everyother week to hear from our
awesome lineup of guests whowill be joining us to talk about
their perspective on allyship.
Help us get started by sharingyour thoughts with us.
(25:09):
We'd love to hear from you,share your topic ideas or guests
referrals by submitting a voicememo or a note on our contact us
page on thewaywelead.com.
This episode was written andproduced by me, Gab y Acosta,
thanks to the best cohost in theworld, Jenelle Acosta.
Our music was written andproduced by the phenomenal Emily
(25:32):
Henry.
And starting next week, listento the end to hear Jenelle sing
the names of our seed fundsponsors in our credit, so stay
tuned for that.
We can't wait to see you then.
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