June 3, 2025 • 51 mins
Kevin challenges modern virtues that may be contributing to societal breakdown and also explores the major theme of establishment vs. anti-establishment divides in American politics, using the example of the Ukraine war to illustrate how public narratives often diverge from factual history. The interview further touches on topics like the impacts of globalization on the U.S. middle and working classes and the importance of verifying information to make informed decisions.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Real divide in America is notRepublican or in Democrat.
(00:04):
It's not conservative andliberal.
That's right.
Those were the old divides.
The real divide in America isestablishment versus
anti-establishment.
(00:26):
​Welcome to the Wayfinder Showwith Louis Hernandez, where
guests discussed the why and howof making changes that led them
down a more authentic path orallowed them to level up in some
areas of their life.
Our goal is to dig deep andprovide not only knowledge, but
actionable advice to help youget from where you are to where
you want to be.
(00:48):
Come join us and find a way toyour dream life.
Welcome back to the WayfinderShow.
I'm your host Louis Hernandez intoday.
I am here with Kevin Howard.
Kevin is a veteran, former FEMAloan officer and business banker
(01:13):
turned climate risk mitigationadvocate, raised in the Bronx
and shaped by a career spanningdisaster response and finance.
Kevin now channels his passionfor humanity and nature into
onward.
At last, a compelling series ofsocial commentaries, challenging
the very virtues that definemodern life.
(01:34):
Through deep reflection onfreedom, self-interest, and
competition, Kevin explores howthese ideals may be contributing
to societal breakdown and whatwe can do to set a new course.
He lives with his wife Nicole,in the Columbia Gorge National
Scenic Area of Oregon, and we'rereally excited to have him here.
So Kevin, welcome to theWayfinder Show.
(01:56):
Indeed, Louis, thank you so muchfor bringing me in today.
I am so excited for thisconversation.
Likewise, man.
These are some interestingtopics we're gonna talk about
that we usually don't get into.
So I'm really excited aboutthis.
But before that, let's justlet's just get into you, man.
Who are you?
Where'd you come?
Give us your origin story.
I.
Yeah.
Thank you so much for thatquestion.
(02:17):
I am a second generationAmerican.
My mother Andrea was born andraised in Panama.
Oh, wow.
Spanish is her first language.
She grew up in Columbia.
Is that Sorry to, I realize.
Funny.
No worries.
She came here as a teenager tothe States and and so her
passion for America was afunction of the fact that she
(02:39):
grew up, pre Noriega Panama,yeah.
And and so she understood whatit was like to.
Live outside of the country,grow up in a culture outside of
the country, and that's allgood.
And she loves her country, heroriginal country, but she became
naturalized US citizen here andshe instilled in both me and my
brother, an appreciation for theopportunity we have growing up
(03:00):
here.
U unlike, the opportunity thatmany of her.
Her siblings grew up in, inPanama.
And so that real focus on andreal appreciation of the
opportunities we have asAmericans really informed my
early life.
And so right after graduatingfrom high school, I joined the
US Army and served in, in nato.
(03:22):
And now here's where I datemyself.
I served during during the endof the Cold War, president
Reagan.
Was my commander in chief andColin Powell was the Lieutenant
General running Fifth Corps, andI served for Colin Powell in
Europe.
Wow.
And I so served four yearsactive duty.
I was a first generation M1tanker.
My, my MOS military occupationalspecialty was as a nuclear,
(03:45):
biological chemical NCO.
So I trained tankers, how tosurvive and contaminate in
environments.
And so after that, did undergradin, in, in Texas, got my degree
in economics, and then actuallywent to law school.
And then after education, Iserved a full one year
commitment as a FEMA leaddisaster assistance loan officer
(04:06):
based primarily in Fort Worth,Texas.
'cause we served for theNorthridge earthquake.
So this puts us in the 94 95range.
And then after that experience,which was amazing, 25 years as a
business banker, peaking duringleading into the financial crash
where I was a middle marketcommercial banker at Wachovia
when the music stopped inSeptember of 2008.
(04:29):
That, that was a different partof my journey.
I.
It took me six years.
It took me, let's see, from 2009to 2016 to get back into
banking.
'cause a third of the bankingindustry got laid off during the
fin, during the financial crash.
So I was out of banking for,while doing insurance, doing
whatever I could do to survive,but I did make it back.
(04:50):
And ultimately when I came backto banking in 2016, I was, at
this point, I had become awareof the climate crisis.
I was, very much anenvironmentalist and stuff like
that.
And so I was a part of therecognition of climate risk as
an actual vertical one riskwithin the risk management
(05:11):
structure of US Bank.
The bank I was working for, theUS Bank is the fifth largest
bank in America.
And so when you add a newvertical, one risk like credit
risk or liquidity risk.
To a bank, it's a major deal.
And so Climate had, was justgetting recognized and this is
where I went back to school andgot my climate, my
sustainability and climate riskcertification with the global
(05:34):
Association of RiskProfessionals in order to advise
a$600 billion bank.
How do you manage this risk?
So taking that experience,ultimately I started my own
consulting business calledClimate climate Change is
everything, LLC, an Oregon basedbusiness.
And I advise local governments,counties financial institutions
(05:55):
on how they can manage theclimate risk.
So that's basically my storyalong the way.
I, I grew up, a cradle Catholic,passionate in my faith and that
faith.
Over time, as I discernedthrough my adulthood,
transitioned into what I wouldcall a spiritual journey, right?
And and I still am rooted inthat faith, but the focus has
(06:18):
shifted from religious ideologyand the acceptance of a series
of truths of principles to thepursuit of truth itself.
What is true about ourexperience that helps us to
understand the purpose, ourpurpose here in this life, and
by living that purposeultimately leads to our personal
(06:39):
fulfillment.
And so on that journey is when Istarted writing these social
commentaries based on the thingsI was discovering through that
journey.
Finally, in December, 2022Atmosphere press did me the
honor of publishing my book ofsocial commentaries called
Onward at Last.
Nice.
And then inspired by the 2024 I.
(07:03):
Presidential election, whichplayed out so many of the issues
that I had been talking about inmy book.
I did a new edition where Iadded a new chapter called
America at the Crossroads andadded 21 new commentaries
because so many of the issues inthe narratives that were playing
out in the electiondemonstrated.
(07:24):
What I was speaking to earlier,which is that so many things
that we are told when I lookedat, when I looked at the truth
that I had come to understandmost of that truth was through
the wisdom of my livedexperience and not the virtues
values and narratives that weare told So many of those
(07:45):
things.
Actually totally conflict withwhat we have learned to be true
in our lives, and yet we believethem and what that does is that
creates a cognitive dissonance.
It did so with me in that ifyour beliefs don't align with
how you actually live, there's adisconnect there.
And it's really hard to findpurpose and fulfillment when the
(08:06):
things you believe don't alignwith the things that you
actually do.
And so that's why I wrote thebook to, to identify that.
And then this was playing out inthe election.
I.
What the Democrats and what theRepublicans were project
projecting, right?
And the narratives that theywere projecting was an
exaggerated version of thesedistorted narratives.
(08:27):
Not designed to inform us, butto, designed to manipulate us
right to, to get us to feel acertain way, to get us to be
angry at each other, to get usto weaponize the very things
that make us special and totallyignore the things that we
actually share.
And so then I wrote this, Iwrote 20 more new commentaries,
America had the crossroads andand then Atmosphere Press
(08:49):
published that new edition witha new forward by John Fullerton,
who's a brilliant formerinvestment banker who started
something called the CapitalInstitute.
Which he's trying to develop anew form of economic, it's
called regenerative economics.
And so he wrote the Forward forthe book, and that was published
in October, 2020.
How'd you get him?
(09:09):
That's a big get.
Oh yeah.
He, we had crossed paths in thatI took his regenerative
economics course.
Okay.
Through his capital institute.
No, he, it is a big get, he's amember of the Club of Rome, one
of these big thinkers and stufflike that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But no, he believed in theproject.
He read the book.
He understood that I was,speaking truth.
In fact, he said in the churchof Finance I was a blasphemer.
(09:33):
But he resonated with because,'cause I was revealing.
Some truths about the, theselies that we're told.
And so yeah.
So that's basically my story.
I'm here to try to help peopleto remember who they are by
dispelling so many of thesethings that are simply not true,
(09:53):
that fill our heads in terms ofhow we believe and how we see
each other, and how weunderstand the world.
So hopefully we can talk aboutsome of that too.
Yeah.
I had some questions, but let'snot hold back here.
What are some of those lies thatyou've identified as well?
And they go back for a goodperiod of time, but so playing
(10:13):
out right now a good example ofwhat I'm talking about is, let's
take the warn.
Let's take the war in Ukraine.
Sure.
Okay.
Alright.
When Russia attacked U Ukrainein, was it March of 2022?
What President Biden told us.
By the way, I'm, I was, I'mlong, I'm a long time democrat.
I voted for Walter Mondale in 84when almost no one else did.
(10:36):
So when I was serving for, we'llgo back to, given our own
disclaimers and all that, I justwouldn't say this.
So I'm not I'm just not biased,so Joe Biden told the country.
That described Russia's attackon Ukraine as an unprovoked
attack on a sovereign country.
Alright.
And so a lot that opened thehearts of a lot of Americans.
(10:58):
This became, freedom againsttotalitarians and that, that
framework.
And we have since.
Offered over a hundred billiondollars in US support to try to
defend Ukraine against Russia.
Okay.
But if you just simply check thehistory of the events that led
to Russia attacking Ukraine, andthe reference point that I would
(11:21):
give people is there's agentleman, there's a gentleman
named oh, let's see, one second.
Let me look up his name realquick.
Is, jeffrey Sacks.
He is.
Oh, Jeff Sacks.
Yeah.
Jeffrey Sacks, he's a ColumbiaUniversity economist.
Probably the leadingdevelopmental economist in our
lifetime.
(11:41):
He is who?
The United States sent toEastern Europe to help the
former Warsaw Pac countries inthe nineties convert to
capitalism.
We sent him to Russia.
To help Boris Yeltsin andMikhail Gorbachev convert Russia
to a free market economy.
This is the guy we sent.
Yeah.
(12:01):
He is also the principlecontributor to the United
Nations Sustainable developmentgoals.
This guy is a giant abovereproach.
I what I'm about to tell you,the story I'm about to tell you
about the war in Ukraine is whathe has addressed to the European
Parliament is recently as Marchof this year, telling the same
(12:23):
story.
They have pushed him off thenews because they cannot say
he's a liar.
They cannot.
Dispute his facts.
But he, but because he was the,he's the guy in the room.
He, okay.
So basically, okay so hereBiden, and, leading into the
election, the Warn Ukraine a bigissue in the election of last
year.
(12:44):
Okay.
We're told that that it was asunprovoked attack when actually.
This goes back to, this goesback to this to when the Soviet
Union decided to set, to stepdown in the early nineties and
so here Gorbachev was workingwith George HW Bush to say,
okay, we are going to dismantle,we're gonna release Eastern
(13:07):
Europe, the Warsaw Pac, we'regonna release, we're gonna
dismantle the Soviet Empire.
We're gonna pull all the nukesback to Russia.
And make sure they don't get inthe hands of terrorists.
We're going, we are going toabdicate communism, and we would
like to help to establish a freemarket economy in Russia, right?
We will do this.
(13:28):
We will in releasing Europe, wewill Eastern Europe, we will
support reunification of Germanyand we will support the
reunification of Germany.
As a member of nato, ourcondition is this one.
We want N we want, we don't wantNATO to expand East into Europe.
(13:49):
And why?
Because the Warsaw Pact duringthe Cold War was a security
buffer between Western Europeand Russia.
If you look at all thehistorical conflicts, major
conflicts between Europe andRussia, it comes from Western
Europe attacking Russia.
You know the Napoleonic Wars, itwas France, world War I.
It was Germany and Austria.
World War ii, it was Germany.
(14:11):
Okay, so at to the deaths ofmillions of Russians.
So that's why in the Cold Warperiod, Eastern Europe was
controlled by the Soviet Unionas a security buffer against the
West.
So what Gorbachev was saying inin, in 92 is that, okay, we will
support the reunification ofGermany even though they're
responsible for the death.
Over 20 million Soviet citizensin World War ii, we will support
(14:33):
the reunification, but NATOneeds to agree not to expand
East.
That's exactly what James Baker,secretary of State, under HW
Bush Promise, he did it in aprivate assurance now that NATO
would not advance one inch eastof Europe.
Okay.
Then Bill Clinton promptly.
(14:54):
Broke those pri broke thatprivate assurance by starting to
expand in Eastern Europe by theNega.
By the late nineties going intothe two thousands, we continued
that expansion right In 2008 atthe NATO summit, George W.
Bush announced the intent toexpand nato all the way to
(15:14):
include Ukraine and Putin whowas in control of Russia at the
time, put out a directcommunicate to uni US
ambassador.
To Ukraine saying that Russiawould consider expanding NATO to
include Ukraine as anexistential threat to the
national security of Russia.
'cause NATO forward positions,nuclear weapons like we have in
(15:37):
Poland, Romania, and Turkey.
So that was Putin notifying usin 2008, that would be
considered an existential threatthat Russia will go to war over
and would, it would go tonuclear war over to prevent.
Okay.
2014 with a democraticallyelected Ukrainian government
that was NATO neutral, that theUkrainian constitution said that
(16:02):
it was stay neutral, right?
The United States provided thefinancing under Obama, right?
Provided the financing to, forthe violent overthrow of that
democratically electedgovernment.
Jeffrey Sachs was in Ukraine in2014 because the new government
that we installed called him into help establish a new economy
(16:25):
that was independent of theRussians.
And when he got on the groundthere, he discovered that we had
paid for the overthrow.
Okay.
This is when that new governmentthen turned around and start
killing ethically RussianUkrainians.
Thousands of them.
15,000.
That's when Russia intervened inUkraine and took Crimea.
(16:46):
Okay.
By 2015, they have a peaceagreement.
And that peace agreement issponsored by Germany, France and
Poland, and is approved by theUS UN Security Council,
including the United States.
I.
That security agreement would'veprotected The sovereignty of
(17:07):
Ukraine, kept it all together,and the only difference was, is
that the ethnically Russiansoutheastern region of Ukraine
would be protected against theUkrainian government banning
Russian language, banningRussian religion, banning
Russian culture, which is whatthey were trying to do.
Okay.
The problem is, and thatagreement is called a min to
agreement.
(17:27):
The problem is the United Statesthen turned around and
instructed Ukraine not toenforce the agreement.
Okay, so here we go.
So we are not enforcing theagreement.
We paid for the violentoverthrow.
We have an anti-Russiangovernment that we installed.
The proof of that we installedit is an audio tape of Victoria
Newland, the Assistant Secretaryof State under Obama.
(17:48):
Admitting to the US Ambassadorto Ukraine, that this is the
government we're going toinstall after the overthrow, and
that is the government who tookpower.
That is the government whocalled Jeffrey Sachs.
Okay.
So between 2015 and 2021, theNew York Times, put in the front
page how we started buildingsecret military bases in Ukraine
(18:11):
and bringing in weapons.
This is when in 2021.
Russia put the, their militaryon the border of Ukraine.
But they gave us one more chancein December, 2021, Putin said a
communicate to the NATOSecretary General and that says
we would like a conference onthe security question relating
(18:34):
to Ukraine.
NATO responded and the SecretaryGeneral has admitted this
publicly responded to Putin'srequest in December, 2021 that
nato.
The business of NATO expansionis not anyone's business,
including Russia, and that NATOwould not discuss their
expansion with Russia.
(18:55):
This is when, this is the eventsthat led up to Russia attacking
Ukraine.
Wow.
It did not have to happen,right?
It certainly wasn't unprovoked.
Sure.
All this is easily verifiable.
This is an entirely differentstory.
This is not pro Putin.
This is what actually happened.
The truth is not ideological.
It is what actually happenedthat led up to this event.
(19:17):
And and so this is just onestrand and if you can just look
at the narrative that we aretold, I.
And what the actual truth of thematter is.
It is so profoundly differentthat they would lie to us, that
profoundly, this is no differentthan WMDs in Iraq.
This is right.
Different, when you are willingto, when you have leadership
(19:39):
who's willing to lie to theirpeople, to the point where
hundreds of thousands of peopleare dead because of that lie,
right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
We need to dispel those type ofnarratives.
And the only way we as peoplecan reclaim our sovereignty is
to understand what is true aboutthe things that we're told Sure.
(19:59):
That affect our lives.
'cause otherwise, this is whyyou vote for Kamala Harris,
right?
Because she's standing on theside of freedom, trying to
protect the Ukrainians.
But the fact of the matter isthat this has nothing to do with
Ukrainian sovereignty.
Do you know that there's neverbeen a democratic vote in
Ukraine in the last 20 years insupport of, in that, in support
(20:21):
of joining nato, even Zelenskyran right, his campaign, he ran
to endorse.
And enforce the min toagreements, which would've
prevented NATO ex join Ukraine,joining nato.
So that's what I'm saying.
We are being lied to andmanipulated, and we need to shed
these lies in order for us tomake choices that make sense for
us and our businesses.
(20:42):
Sure.
Yeah.
This particular election, Idon't wanna focus on the
candidates here.
Okay.
Or even the parties, if it'sokay.
But I can say I like you.
I think I have a very similarbackground in that, although I
always consider myself anindependent, if you really look
at my voting record, the truthis I've almost always voted
Democrat, with a couple ofexceptions here or there.
(21:04):
And luckily, I live in a statenow of Colorado where I can
declare myself independent andactually vote for whoever I
want.
Which is great, but on the Eastcoast it's like you, the
decisions were made on theprimary.
So you just had to, alignyourself with the majority party
and vote there.
'cause that's where the realelection was.
But exactly.
But I'll tell you, I think thisis a great example of things
(21:26):
that, you know.
As by as much as we all thinkwe're independent.
'cause you talk to everybody,everybody says that they think,
everybody thinks they're fi,they wanna be fiscally
conservative, socially liberal,right?
Everybody want thinks that theyare independent minded, but at
the end of the day, we vote oneway.
90% of the time and we're notreally there.
And there's something about theother side that gives us the
(21:48):
heebie giess and we alignourselves with the party that's
there.
And I think that's what overtime, as we, maybe it's age,
maybe it's just an awakening,maybe we had somebody who really
did a great job with themessaging.
I don't know.
But we start to see some truthsfrom the party that we're
aligned with, and they all do itright.
That, start to expose that.
(22:10):
Okay, maybe it isn't.
What my party's saying.
I'll give another great example.
Bernie yes.
Bernie is below.
He is I like to call him theconscience consciousness of the
Democratic party'cause, for whatit's worth.
But anyways, people loved him,went on the road.
People followed him like crazy.
Him and a OC are starting to dothat now again, and they're.
(22:31):
Getting big crowds, which by theway, any.
Any side that does, that usuallybuilds a big following, right?
With whatever mis the Democraticparty felt threatened by that
and they shut'em down.
And if you really start to lookat it, we haven't had a real
Democratic primary probablysince Obama won the first one.
The more, and I, the moreconsciously I start to think
(22:52):
about this,'cause a lot of myfriends love Bernie, and I'm not
saying I'm a Bernie supporternow or not, whatever.
It's just I saw that all of asudden he just got shut down.
We saw it and then we saw itreally clearly in this election,
right?
Where, we all voted for one guyand then we got somebody else,
right?
So it's and then you see thatone guy and we didn't wanna
believe that he may not havebeen stable.
(23:12):
And then we see him on TV andthen, okay, he's not stable.
So it's like you start to seethe lies for real.
And it's like, how do you denythat?
And to start.
You have to start asking thequestions consciously.
Yeah.
It's so important and I'm sohappy you bring up Bernie,
because to me, Bernie Sanders isan, is a wonderful, from a
(23:33):
democratic or progressiveperspective, I.
Example of the real divide inAmerica.
Sure.
The real divide in America isnot Republican or in Democrat.
It's not conservative andliberal.
That's right.
Those were the old divides.
The real divide in America isestablishment versus
anti-establishment.
Yes.
And by that put what in that, Imean is Bernie Sanders appeal?
(23:55):
He was talking about a politicalrevolution and the reason why
Bernie Sanders was talking abouta political revolution is that
the geopolitical andgeo-economic policies of the
neoliberal neoconservativeproject, which is two sides of
the same coin, so you know, thatgeopolitical policy of American
hegemony, one superpower in thepost Cold War period, right?
(24:20):
And that American Hege hegemonywould be supported by the
forever wars we would befighting across the globe and
look at us for the last 30years.
Look at our federal debt.
We had$4 trillion in debt in 92.
We got 37 trillion today.
Why?
Because we fought war for almostthe entire time.
And there's that New York act.
There it is.
(24:40):
I heard it.
I was gonna say that.
And okay so the geopoliticalpolicy of the neoliberal
neoconservative agenda was.
American hegemony onesuperpower, right?
Yeah.
The economics was globalization.
Yeah, globalization.
It started with Clinton, withNAFTA and the whole na, they
liberalized GA and stuff likethat so that American
(25:01):
corporations could then go laborshopping around the globe for
the best lowest cost labor.
And what that did to Americandomestic Labor is it
commoditized them.
It made them compete againstSouth Korea.
It made them compete againstMexico.
It made them compete againstChina.
And so what happened to wages inthe United States?
They stayed flat for 30 years.
(25:22):
Yeah.
Okay.
So the anti-establishment is theabandoned.
Middle class and working classAmericans.
That's right.
Who did not get served byglobalization?
Who won globalization?
The professional class and thebig and wealth.
We produced the wealthiestbillionaire class in global
(25:44):
history.
One of these.
Uber wealthy billionaires likeElon Musk has more money
adjusted for inflation than theentire Gilded Age.
Yeah.
The Rockefellers, the melonsdoes.
That's how much wealth wecreated at the top.
Yeah.
At the expense.
The Federal Reserve said in 2021that for the first time in US
history, the top 1% have morewealth and income than the
(26:07):
entire American middle class.
Yeah.
Who voted for Trump, who votedfor Bernie, the working class
and middle class Americans whogot left behind, right?
That's right.
And the problem with what theDemocrats did by snuffing Bernie
twice is that they reallythought that these working
class.
(26:27):
People would buy into the hypethat they are the party of the
working person.
They long Clinton changed thatthey are the party of Wall
Street.
And Forever Wars.
And all, and that includesObama.
So what do these people do?
They didn't go vote for Hillary.
I.
They turned around and startedvoting for Trump.
Yeah.
Why?
Because they let a billionaireframe himself.
He frame, he's a marketing guy.
(26:48):
Totally.
That's all he does.
He gets it.
He framed himself as theanti-establishment guy.
Yeah.
And goes to Michigan and talksabout how he's bringing these
jobs back.
Okay.
So no matter the fact that he'sa billionaire and benefited from
all that.
He they deferred, he understood.
He read the electorate.
Yeah.
And understood that mostAmericans are not served by this
(27:11):
economics.
So what does that make?
2024.
That's America's Brexit.
The reason why the UK voted toleave the European Union is
domestic middle class and laborand working class people did not
get served by the EuropeanUnion.
Only the professional class andwealth.
Same thing that happened inAmerica.
This trend is not unique.
(27:33):
Louis, my friend.
For the first time in globalhistory, every major democracy
across the global north, fromJapan to Canada, throughout
Europe voted out incumbents.
Because the majorities are notserved by globalization, only
wealth in the professionalclass.
(27:53):
So what this is what drove theelection.
It was less about Trump and acomplete repudiation of
neoliberalism of, if KamalaHarris had the character, and I
say character because they askedher many times, is there
anything you could think of thatyou would do different than Joe
Biden?
Yeah.
If she had the strength ofcharacter to step out there and
say, yes, people would've beenopen to that.
(28:15):
Absolutely.
But people were not gonna affirma policy that doesn't serve
them, so it became a rejection,a repudiation of the incumbent
just like it was.
Across the world.
Sure.
I think there's been severalelections in my lifetime where
the anti-establishment candidatewon.
(28:37):
And it was really, I.
And then they take power andthey become the rule, because
they become the ruling class.
They become the establishment,and that goes on usually for a
few cycles, right?
I think Reagan, Clinton, Obama,now Trump, I believe those are
probably four in my lifetime,that, that were
anti-establishment victories,their first wins, right?
(29:00):
Like they you can, we candisagree or not, but I, how
does.
With that in mind, how does howdo we get that to happen more
often?
So we don't have anestablishment that can, a new
establishment that continuestheir, a self-serving status quo
for them rather than the masses,right?
(29:21):
The middle class and the workingclass.
Interesting thing, and this iswhat I would say to you, Louis,
and to the audience listening,this is the thing that
separates, and I am not a Trumpsupporter.
Sure.
But this is what separates Trumpfrom everyone else.
You just said his motivation.
Why as a billionaire does hechoose to take.
(29:43):
To take the mantle of theanti-establishment is, and the
reason why is even though he isa product of the patriarchy,
sure.
He's a product of theestablishment.
They have never accepted him asa respected member of their
class.
And I think the turning pointwas in 2000, was it 2011?
2012 during the Obamaadministration at the White
(30:06):
House Correspondence dinner.
I saw that.
I saw that Yes.
When Obama was on stage roastingTrump, who's in the crowd.
Yeah.
And he eviscerated.
And totally trivialized.
Yeah.
His career as on the, apprenticeand stuff like that.
That's right.
Relative to a president and thechoices that the president has
to make.
And this was this, I thinksomething snapped in Trump.
Sitting in that audience becausehe is a narcissist.
(30:28):
Absolutely.
Which she said, okay, fine.
Yeah, fine.
I will never be accepted bythese people.
So I'm going to get, I'm gonnabe president, and when I'm
president, I'm gonna dismantlewhat they've done.
And this is the differencebetween, that's why I'm saying
this is different and maybe andwhy this could be good from.
The perspective of people whowere not served by the la, the
(30:48):
economics and the geopolitics ofthe last 30 years, right?
Is that.
If you look at what he's tryingto do, the significance of Tulsi
Gabbard, he, okay.
Trump literally went to thecenter last August when during
the Democratic Convention he theDemocrats were are anointing
Kamala.
(31:09):
He reaches out to RFK Jr.
Another centrist, democrat, ElonMusk is a centrist Democrat.
Look at their history, theirbackground, everything they've
stood for, everything theysupportable for, all the
candidates they pay for, okay?
Tulsi ga from Hawaii, that theDemocratic Party in Hawaii is
not con is centrist to liberal.
And that's a deep tradition outthere, right?
She comes up in it.
(31:30):
He went, he appointed her to bethe Director of National
Intelligence because themethodology for enforcing
American hegemony was to funnelmoney, billions, ultimately
trillions of dollars throughU-S-A-I-D to finance.
In insert Counterinsurgenciesthat destabilize governments
(31:53):
that then we could flood thezone with weapons for the
benefit of the militaryindustrial complex.
Sure.
And so this is what created allthe wars.
This is what we did in Ukraine.
Okay.
He hired Tulsi Gabbard becauseher claim, the reason why
Hillary ran her out of theDemocratic party is because she
opposes.
This type of activity.
She wants to end the foreverwars.
(32:14):
Yeah.
And so he did, if there's awoman listening to this who's
looking for a woman in power whoactually comes from that defined
feminine, yeah.
Who's not just trying to emulateHenry Kissinger.
That's Tulsi Gabbard.
And he put her in one of themost powerful positions to end
our use.
Our funneling of our treasury tocause these conflicts around the
(32:36):
world.
And that's what she spoke aboutin her confirmation hearing.
You can hear all the details andthat's why the establishment
hates her is because she, thisshe's trying to cut off the
money train.
Okay.
Putting R-F-K-H-H-S, right?
Same thing.
Both the pharmaceutical industryand big food, right?
Have the fortunes that they havemade while American Health has
(32:59):
continued to decline right overdecade, after decade.
COVID proved the magnitude ofour unhealthiness.
Totally.
Is that 25% of the COVID deathswere because of our co
comorbidities when we only havewhat, less than 5% of the global
population?
Kevin, if anybody ever goestravel anywhere else in the
world, you'll see it right away.
(33:21):
'cause all these reactions wehave to foods that we have
almost become numb to it.
That we just take it.
Oh, that's just the way it is.
Was it supposed to feel likecrap after having a burger?
No, we're not.
And you go have a burger.
I was in Japan in 24 early and Iremember I hadn't, I was
training for something.
I had a burger in a while,finally had one after my event.
And then and then I had one.
I felt great.
It was delicious, felt great.
(33:43):
All this stuff.
Then I get back to the states.
I'm at LAX, I see another burgerstand.
It's a fancy gourmet, healthywhatever.
I eat it and I'm like.
Dying the rest of the day.
This is disgusting, yeah.
So it doesn't take much.
Just go try and then you gottastart questioning.
Why is it that the same thingI'm eating here?
Is not having the impact that Iwould have back home.
(34:04):
No, that's right.
You asked that question.
It's just, it just blows yourmind.
What do we do in this state, inthe states?
No, this is why it's critical.
This is at the heart of my book.
It's critical for us to make, inorder for each of us to make
decisions that can positivelyimpact our lives.
Yeah.
That that, whether it's runningour businesses or making our
personal choices, we have toknow what is true.
(34:27):
I.
Yeah, about what we're told sothat we can make informed
choices.
What we're being told, themagnitude of the lies that we're
being told totally are detachedfrom reality, and they're
designed to get us to do thingsthat actually hurt ourselves,
including again the food that weeat, right?
We're getting down to a pointwhere if you don't buy local.
(34:47):
If you don't, if you don't haveany type of relationship with
the people who politician yourfood you need to call them into
question whether you're eatingpoison, and I don't mean like
arsenic poisoning.
The kind of poison that in 10years now you're, obese and, and
suffering from all theseco-morbidities that's gonna lead
to your death in some otherunrelated way, so it, and then
how so how do we find a truth,Kevin?
(35:08):
How do we find a truth?
The benefit is we live in theage of information.
Yes.
And all I'm saying here iseveryone has a smart, most
people have smartphones, mostpeople have the internet.
As we, we need to move past.
This idea of this is a trustedsource of information, so I
don't have to check, or this isa person and responsibility.
(35:28):
I don't have to check from nowon, make it a practice, if it's
going to involve how you makeyour decisions and the basis by
which you make your decisions.
Verify that it's true simple.
Google searches start to dothis.
What is the hist, what is thehistory that led up to this
moment?
Is it true with the advent ofai?
I had the most fascinatingdiscovery with chat GPT.
(35:51):
You could use chat, g chat, GPTto verify these stories by
asking it the point.
Is that really true?
Does the data, the, does theinformation you have support
that statement?
And take any statement, anyclassic state, but like Admiral
Kirby announcing that SouthAfrica's case of genocide
against Israel is baseless andwithout merit.
(36:15):
That's what he said as thespokesperson for the National
Security Council for PresidentBiden.
Okay.
Then the International Court ofJustice rules that actually the
evidence supports the fact thatthey are commanding genocide.
How could it be baseless andwithout merit?
So the thing is check there inany way based on your own
individual resources.
(36:35):
If it's a decision that is goingto impact your life before you
just believe what you were told,make sure it's true, and then
adjust.
Then adjust accordingly and makethat a part of your practice.
Do you now find that?
A lot of these sources, evenGoogle are bias.
I Fine.
No, you're, yeah, you're right.
You.
Here's the thing.
(36:56):
The reason why it's not an easything when lying became normal.
It not it's not easy to find thetruth in that respect, but it is
easy to find it.
That's the funny thing about itis the lie, the only way the lie
works.
Is if you simply accept it forwhat it is, right?
But the more you triangulate thelie that you're trying to check
(37:17):
or the statement that you'retrying to check, you are gonna
find.
It's not the same thing asyou're being told.
And that's then and when youjust say anything else in your
life, you find out, oh.
That's not how I was told.
Then you dig a little deeper andyou dig a little.
Okay.
So in the process of checkingwhat we're told, I know this has
been my my, my practice.
(37:37):
You will Perfect.
Who actually tells you thetruth.
You'll perfect the process ofvalidating from 12 different
sources.
'cause it the internet and g andAI is that powerful, make that a
part of your practice, that isan essential skill until we can
change our normal culture to getback to a place where we don't
(37:58):
lie to each other as a matter ofbusiness as usual.
And that's the tragedy.
That's where we are.
So yeah that, that was how Iwould recommend Yeah.
That people do and can figure itout.
It's no different than, okay, Ineed to buy a car.
I have this much in my budget.
How would you go about doingthat?
They look, they it's the samething.
Whatever the story is, do yourinvestigation like you were
(38:21):
gonna per make a major purchaseand then do what makes sense.
Once you find out if it's true,and if you find out what it's
not true, what is theimplications of the person?
This look in you an eye andtelling you something that is so
diametrically opposed to whatactually happened.
And that's the war in Ukraine.
Yeah.
That that that's genocide andGaza.
Yeah.
That is so many differentthings.
(38:42):
Yeah.
Kevin, I this is the kind ofepisode I've often thought
about.
I admire my counterparts likeJoe Rogan or Lex Friedman who,
go on for three hour interviewand you're the kind of guest
that we would want to have thatkind of long form.
Episode with, but we're notthere yet, unfortunately.
I still have another career.
Oh yeah, you were my friend.
So I'm gonna have to shift overto our Wayfinder four questions
(39:04):
for now, if that's all right.
So if you can sure.
Just give us a hack, a life hackthat you use every day.
You can share with our audience.
Yeah, absolutely.
And the thing is I've alreadygiven away the lead on this one.
Yeah.
The hack that I use, I seriouslyis I verify the information I'm
told before.
(39:25):
In other words, I'm guided bythe truth.
And it really is a superpowerbecause once you eliminate the
false information.
You one, you're gonna find thatmost of your competitors, most
of the people making the choice,unfortunately, are misguided by
the false information.
Like I said, it is a competitiveadvantage if you could verify
what you're told, make sure it'strue, and then make the best
(39:46):
decision that you could makebased on that information.
Yeah.
Organize your life based on thatinformation.
It is an absolute pack forwhat's going on.
Yeah.
How about a favorite.
Just a show, podcast, bookactivity.
Yeah, whatever.
You just a favorite thing.
You like one of my favorites.
Okay.
I.
So many of those, so many ofthose categories, but based on
(40:07):
how this, the flavor of this,I'm gonna shift it up a little
bit.
There's a documentary that thatit's, and it's available on,
it's available on Netflix.
And it is done by Sir DavidAttenborough and it is called a
Life on Our Planet.
And this brings in the climateside of it, and it's an amazing
documentary in that it spansDavid Attenborough's and he
(40:31):
released it like October of 2020during COVID, right?
It spans his life of bringingthe wild.
Us and he shows how thepercentage of the planet that is
wild, that is untouched, hasdiminished over the course of
his life to the point where it'sgetting critically low.
But he does this to try todemonstrate what impact our
(40:53):
modern.
Modern lifestyle is having onthe planet.
But then he turns around and hetalks about the positive.
He doesn't just leave us withthe problem and he takes us to
Chernobyl, so I'm not gonnatake, I'm not gonna steal the
thunder.
'cause it, it's amazing how heshows this story.
Yeah, no, we'll check it out.
Yeah.
But he, yeah.
So a life, one.
A life on the planet.
Life on our planet.
Great.
(41:14):
And excellent.
How about a piece of advice forour younger self?
I thought a long time about thisquestion, and the reason why is
that my answer is I would notapproach my younger self.
I know I've heard this, people aasked this so many times, but I
would not.
Tell my younger self any of thebenefit of the experience that
(41:36):
we would have gained had theynot met me as my older self.
'Cause I don't want that youngerself to change anything they
did.
Why?
Because we learned so much fromthat process and then we would
not be who we are today.
And I want my, the best thing Icould do for my younger self,
and this is not.
This is not about ego.
(41:57):
This is about doing the internalwork.
The best thing I could do for myyounger self is allow him to
become who we became, that'sultimately an aspiration.
Now, if I was ashamed of who Iam, I.
This is an easy question.
No, no, I work hard to be inthis space.
I love that.
And that's involved in takingsome sober looks in the mirror.
(42:17):
I love that.
I was listening to an interviewwith Morgan Housel, who, wrote
the ecology of money and he.
He talked about billionaire he'sknown a lot of billionaires.
He studied them.
He wrote the book on on how theythink and everything.
And he said that there's like anevolution where they all know
that they all wanna buy the bighouse when they made it right.
(42:38):
And so they go and buy the bighouse.
Along that time, they realizethat they don't like the big
house.
It's the thing.
And so then there's anotherevolution where you go from
having a big house to yacht.
Its all that to then justgetting rid of it all and
simplifying your life again.
And the point of that is exactlywhat you just said.
There's something to the, theyall know it.
These are some of the smartestwell-read people in the world.
(43:00):
Incredibly successful.
They know they shouldn't do it,but they have to do it anyways
and experience it.
And I think sometimes you'reabsolutely right.
It doesn't matter what advice weget, we know it, but we're not
gonna take it.
We gotta do it ourselves.
Experience it.
You gotta go through it.
You gotta learn the lessonyourself and then you can become
what you can be.
Yes, totally.
So that's a great answer.
So last one, how about a bigopportunity or a limiting
(43:21):
belief?
Yeah, the, this is a greatquestion.
And the thing about it is thelimiting and the li to identify
the limiting belief exposes thebig opportunity.
So what's the limiting belief?
I believe that the virtuesvalues and.
(43:42):
Narratives of our culture in theUnited States specifically.
'cause this is the culture Iknow right.
Have effectively obscured usfrom who we are.
When you think of independence,freedom, self-interest,
competition.
As the measuring sticks forbuilding a successful life,
(44:04):
these are at the core of what itis to be an American, the
problem is that those fourvirtues, particularly how they
have been expressed over thelast 40, 50 years, right?
They convince us of things thatare simply not true based on our
lived experience.
So the limited the limitingbelief is that I can advance my
(44:25):
interests without consideringLouie that I that what is better
for me and my family.
Notwithstanding what that doesto louisie is fine as long as we
both do this fear and squareright, when in fact I don't
survive.
Without your contribution andthe contributions of thousands
(44:45):
of people, I will never know.
I don't produce the food that Ieat.
I don't produce the clothes thatI wear.
I don't produce the air that Ibreathe.
I don't produce this technologythat allows us to talk right by
convincing me of myindependence.
And that I can advance my own, Ican actually benefit from only
thinking about myself and myinterests.
(45:06):
It obscures the fact that I am apart, we are interdependent on
each other.
Not codependent.
Yeah.
Interdependent.
There's a symbiotic relationshipbetween me and you and my friend
and us and the rest of societyand us and the, in the natural
environment that sustains us.
And by ignoring that.
It induces us to do what?
Create the climate crisis.
(45:27):
It induces us to create wealthand income inequality.
Yeah.
It induces us to create allthese challenges, existential
now challenges.
And until we remember the bigopportunity is remembering that
we are interdependent and that'sour strength.
This is how we defeated thedinosaurs because we cooperated.
This is how you know, okay, by,this is the superpower
(45:48):
opportunity.
We need to remember who we are.
We are interdependent and that'sa good thing.
Nothing in nature livesindependently.
Man, I absolutely love thatanswer.
It is.
We can have a whole episode juston that and I have some
questions around some of thatfor,'cause I know you write a
lot about that too.
(46:09):
And I'm a kind of, it just meanswe gotta have another episode
'cause that was Hey, I'm all forit Louis.
I'm all for it.
Particularly if you wanna do therogue and ask and go for it, we
can do that.
Oh man.
Yeah.
I got a car ride a lot of times.
That's right.
Joe doesn't have to have all thefun.
That's right.
That's right.
Man, that was so profound.
I, first of all, I gotta sayjust the way you started that,
(46:31):
to identify the limiting belief,I.
Exposes are big opportunities.
I wrote that down.
I am probably gonna, that is sodeep.
And that's actually why I askedthat question together.
I've just never been able tosynthesize it the way you did in
that statement.
That is beautiful.
And I thank you for that andthen, the whole point about
interdependence versuscompetition, I think, our
(46:55):
listeners know I'm a marathonrunner and I'm a competitive
guy.
I like to consider myself acompetitive guy.
But, ask anybody who reallylikes running marathons.
First of all, they're probably alittle sick in the head, right?
It's not really joyful.
But how do you get through it?
At first you train hard.
First of all, there's a lot ofteammates with that.
We all love each other.
We support each other.
All that.
It's like we really feel greatfor each other.
When I feel so happy.
(47:17):
I'm getting chills just thinkingabout my teammates.
Yeah.
When they run and they get a PRand all that, just as much as my
own right.
But oftentimes a lot of us,we've talked about on our runs,
how at the end what gets youthrough the end, like past the
big wall.
Yeah.
It's seeing that person that'sright there struggling next to
you and grabbing them andsaying, come on, let's get there
(47:37):
together.
We can do this.
And you get there and at the endit's just like this bond that's
just, and you did it and.
There's no competition there.
It's a, it's an interdependentness getting there to the end,
and it is way, way moresatisfying, a much better
feeling than winning that race.
I think, and I've heard thisfrom people who win races,
right?
(47:58):
Yeah.
Mev K Kki, who was one ofAmerica's best runners.
He talked about it in one of hisbooks.
It is a.
It is a real trait that we don'tpush in our society, but makes
us feel incredibly good.
So I thank you for bringing thatup.
That is a very profound thought,I appreciate that, Louis.
And I just wanna say as itrelates to each of those
(48:18):
virtues, it's not like there'sno application.
It's just that the way we applythem, so in the case of
competition is survivaltechnique of course, and
appropriately so in a contextwhere there's not enough for me
and you, the best way for us isto compete in order to get, as
opposed to just brute force.
Okay.
Yeah.
But when there is enough forboth of us, this should not be
(48:40):
the means by which people accesshealthcare.
Yeah.
This should not be the means bywhich people access food,
otherwise it becomes a bloodsport.
That's what we have in Americawhere most of the it is us
versus them haves versus haves,nots.
And yet the have-nots areessential.
Didn't we learn that duringCOVID?
Totally.
The lowest paid people in oursociety are the essential world.
(49:00):
That's insane.
It is.
So this is how we defeatourselves.
This is a misapplication of anotherwise good concept.
Yeah.
And so yeah, it's about findingthat, that balance my friend.
So Kevin, if people wanna knowmore about you, find your
essays, where can they find you?
Absolutely.
Thank you for asking.
On my website is wwwonward@last.com,
(49:24):
O-N-W-A-R-D-A-T-L-A-S t.com.
And on there you'll not only geta preview of my book onward at
last, it's not, and it's comingin, it's in hardcover,
paperback.
Ebook and the audio book by thiswonderful actress Carol and
Jania and stuff like that.
But if you can't afford to buythe book, the commentaries are
(49:47):
available in the blog tab.
Okay?
All of them are available forthe blog tab, the Universal one,
this blog, and it's right thereon the same website.
But yeah, the purchase links arethere if you wanna purchase the
book or purchase a version, orif you just want to access the
commentaries.
That's it.
Awesome.
Kevin, I was a little nervousabout this one'cause like I
said, I haven't gotten into anypolitical, quote unquote
(50:08):
controversial stuff, but I, thishas been a lot of fun and it's
been something I wanted to moveinto a little bit more just to
get people to think.
And I thank you for helping mego in this direction and making
it comfortable, and I hopepeople really enjoy it.
And they go think and they checkout your stuff and think on a
deeper level about, what thetruth is.
Lou, thank you so much for athoughtful conversation.
(50:30):
Yes.
We, the thing about third railsis you could, if your heart
centered with your approachYeah.
You could touch the third rail.
It's gonna be all right.
And I think we did okay today.
Yeah.
Thank.
We hope you've enjoyed theWayfinder Show.
If you've got value from thisepisode, please take a few
seconds to leave us a five starrating and review.
(50:52):
This will allow us to help morepeople find their way to live
more authentic and excitinglives.
We'll catch you on the nextepisode.
Real divide in America is notRepublican or in Democrat.
(00:04):
It's not conservative andliberal.
That's right.
Those were the old divides.
The real divide in America isestablishment versus
anti-establishment.
(00:26):
​Welcome to the Wayfinder Showwith Louis Hernandez, where
guests discussed the why and howof making changes that led them
down a more authentic path orallowed them to level up in some
areas of their life.
Our goal is to dig deep andprovide not only knowledge, but
actionable advice to help youget from where you are to where
you want to be.
(00:48):
Come join us and find a way toyour dream life.
Welcome back to the WayfinderShow.
I'm your host Louis Hernandez intoday.
I am here with Kevin Howard.
Kevin is a veteran, former FEMAloan officer and business banker
(01:13):
turned climate risk mitigationadvocate, raised in the Bronx
and shaped by a career spanningdisaster response and finance.
Kevin now channels his passionfor humanity and nature into
onward.
At last, a compelling series ofsocial commentaries, challenging
the very virtues that definemodern life.
(01:34):
Through deep reflection onfreedom, self-interest, and
competition, Kevin explores howthese ideals may be contributing
to societal breakdown and whatwe can do to set a new course.
He lives with his wife Nicole,in the Columbia Gorge National
Scenic Area of Oregon, and we'rereally excited to have him here.
So Kevin, welcome to theWayfinder Show.
(01:56):
Indeed, Louis, thank you so muchfor bringing me in today.
I am so excited for thisconversation.
Likewise, man.
These are some interestingtopics we're gonna talk about
that we usually don't get into.
So I'm really excited aboutthis.
But before that, let's justlet's just get into you, man.
Who are you?
Where'd you come?
Give us your origin story.
I.
Yeah.
Thank you so much for thatquestion.
(02:17):
I am a second generationAmerican.
My mother Andrea was born andraised in Panama.
Oh, wow.
Spanish is her first language.
She grew up in Columbia.
Is that Sorry to, I realize.
Funny.
No worries.
She came here as a teenager tothe States and and so her
passion for America was afunction of the fact that she
(02:39):
grew up, pre Noriega Panama,yeah.
And and so she understood whatit was like to.
Live outside of the country,grow up in a culture outside of
the country, and that's allgood.
And she loves her country, heroriginal country, but she became
naturalized US citizen here andshe instilled in both me and my
brother, an appreciation for theopportunity we have growing up
(03:00):
here.
U unlike, the opportunity thatmany of her.
Her siblings grew up in, inPanama.
And so that real focus on andreal appreciation of the
opportunities we have asAmericans really informed my
early life.
And so right after graduatingfrom high school, I joined the
US Army and served in, in nato.
(03:22):
And now here's where I datemyself.
I served during during the endof the Cold War, president
Reagan.
Was my commander in chief andColin Powell was the Lieutenant
General running Fifth Corps, andI served for Colin Powell in
Europe.
Wow.
And I so served four yearsactive duty.
I was a first generation M1tanker.
My, my MOS military occupationalspecialty was as a nuclear,
(03:45):
biological chemical NCO.
So I trained tankers, how tosurvive and contaminate in
environments.
And so after that, did undergradin, in, in Texas, got my degree
in economics, and then actuallywent to law school.
And then after education, Iserved a full one year
commitment as a FEMA leaddisaster assistance loan officer
(04:06):
based primarily in Fort Worth,Texas.
'cause we served for theNorthridge earthquake.
So this puts us in the 94 95range.
And then after that experience,which was amazing, 25 years as a
business banker, peaking duringleading into the financial crash
where I was a middle marketcommercial banker at Wachovia
when the music stopped inSeptember of 2008.
(04:29):
That, that was a different partof my journey.
I.
It took me six years.
It took me, let's see, from 2009to 2016 to get back into
banking.
'cause a third of the bankingindustry got laid off during the
fin, during the financial crash.
So I was out of banking for,while doing insurance, doing
whatever I could do to survive,but I did make it back.
(04:50):
And ultimately when I came backto banking in 2016, I was, at
this point, I had become awareof the climate crisis.
I was, very much anenvironmentalist and stuff like
that.
And so I was a part of therecognition of climate risk as
an actual vertical one riskwithin the risk management
(05:11):
structure of US Bank.
The bank I was working for, theUS Bank is the fifth largest
bank in America.
And so when you add a newvertical, one risk like credit
risk or liquidity risk.
To a bank, it's a major deal.
And so Climate had, was justgetting recognized and this is
where I went back to school andgot my climate, my
sustainability and climate riskcertification with the global
(05:34):
Association of RiskProfessionals in order to advise
a$600 billion bank.
How do you manage this risk?
So taking that experience,ultimately I started my own
consulting business calledClimate climate Change is
everything, LLC, an Oregon basedbusiness.
And I advise local governments,counties financial institutions
(05:55):
on how they can manage theclimate risk.
So that's basically my storyalong the way.
I, I grew up, a cradle Catholic,passionate in my faith and that
faith.
Over time, as I discernedthrough my adulthood,
transitioned into what I wouldcall a spiritual journey, right?
And and I still am rooted inthat faith, but the focus has
(06:18):
shifted from religious ideologyand the acceptance of a series
of truths of principles to thepursuit of truth itself.
What is true about ourexperience that helps us to
understand the purpose, ourpurpose here in this life, and
by living that purposeultimately leads to our personal
(06:39):
fulfillment.
And so on that journey is when Istarted writing these social
commentaries based on the thingsI was discovering through that
journey.
Finally, in December, 2022Atmosphere press did me the
honor of publishing my book ofsocial commentaries called
Onward at Last.
Nice.
And then inspired by the 2024 I.
(07:03):
Presidential election, whichplayed out so many of the issues
that I had been talking about inmy book.
I did a new edition where Iadded a new chapter called
America at the Crossroads andadded 21 new commentaries
because so many of the issues inthe narratives that were playing
out in the electiondemonstrated.
(07:24):
What I was speaking to earlier,which is that so many things
that we are told when I lookedat, when I looked at the truth
that I had come to understandmost of that truth was through
the wisdom of my livedexperience and not the virtues
values and narratives that weare told So many of those
(07:45):
things.
Actually totally conflict withwhat we have learned to be true
in our lives, and yet we believethem and what that does is that
creates a cognitive dissonance.
It did so with me in that ifyour beliefs don't align with
how you actually live, there's adisconnect there.
And it's really hard to findpurpose and fulfillment when the
(08:06):
things you believe don't alignwith the things that you
actually do.
And so that's why I wrote thebook to, to identify that.
And then this was playing out inthe election.
I.
What the Democrats and what theRepublicans were project
projecting, right?
And the narratives that theywere projecting was an
exaggerated version of thesedistorted narratives.
(08:27):
Not designed to inform us, butto, designed to manipulate us
right to, to get us to feel acertain way, to get us to be
angry at each other, to get usto weaponize the very things
that make us special and totallyignore the things that we
actually share.
And so then I wrote this, Iwrote 20 more new commentaries,
America had the crossroads andand then Atmosphere Press
(08:49):
published that new edition witha new forward by John Fullerton,
who's a brilliant formerinvestment banker who started
something called the CapitalInstitute.
Which he's trying to develop anew form of economic, it's
called regenerative economics.
And so he wrote the Forward forthe book, and that was published
in October, 2020.
How'd you get him?
(09:09):
That's a big get.
Oh yeah.
He, we had crossed paths in thatI took his regenerative
economics course.
Okay.
Through his capital institute.
No, he, it is a big get, he's amember of the Club of Rome, one
of these big thinkers and stufflike that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But no, he believed in theproject.
He read the book.
He understood that I was,speaking truth.
In fact, he said in the churchof Finance I was a blasphemer.
(09:33):
But he resonated with because,'cause I was revealing.
Some truths about the, theselies that we're told.
And so yeah.
So that's basically my story.
I'm here to try to help peopleto remember who they are by
dispelling so many of thesethings that are simply not true,
(09:53):
that fill our heads in terms ofhow we believe and how we see
each other, and how weunderstand the world.
So hopefully we can talk aboutsome of that too.
Yeah.
I had some questions, but let'snot hold back here.
What are some of those lies thatyou've identified as well?
And they go back for a goodperiod of time, but so playing
(10:13):
out right now a good example ofwhat I'm talking about is, let's
take the warn.
Let's take the war in Ukraine.
Sure.
Okay.
Alright.
When Russia attacked U Ukrainein, was it March of 2022?
What President Biden told us.
By the way, I'm, I was, I'mlong, I'm a long time democrat.
I voted for Walter Mondale in 84when almost no one else did.
(10:36):
So when I was serving for, we'llgo back to, given our own
disclaimers and all that, I justwouldn't say this.
So I'm not I'm just not biased,so Joe Biden told the country.
That described Russia's attackon Ukraine as an unprovoked
attack on a sovereign country.
Alright.
And so a lot that opened thehearts of a lot of Americans.
(10:58):
This became, freedom againsttotalitarians and that, that
framework.
And we have since.
Offered over a hundred billiondollars in US support to try to
defend Ukraine against Russia.
Okay.
But if you just simply check thehistory of the events that led
to Russia attacking Ukraine, andthe reference point that I would
(11:21):
give people is there's agentleman, there's a gentleman
named oh, let's see, one second.
Let me look up his name realquick.
Is, jeffrey Sacks.
He is.
Oh, Jeff Sacks.
Yeah.
Jeffrey Sacks, he's a ColumbiaUniversity economist.
Probably the leadingdevelopmental economist in our
lifetime.
(11:41):
He is who?
The United States sent toEastern Europe to help the
former Warsaw Pac countries inthe nineties convert to
capitalism.
We sent him to Russia.
To help Boris Yeltsin andMikhail Gorbachev convert Russia
to a free market economy.
This is the guy we sent.
Yeah.
(12:01):
He is also the principlecontributor to the United
Nations Sustainable developmentgoals.
This guy is a giant abovereproach.
I what I'm about to tell you,the story I'm about to tell you
about the war in Ukraine is whathe has addressed to the European
Parliament is recently as Marchof this year, telling the same
(12:23):
story.
They have pushed him off thenews because they cannot say
he's a liar.
They cannot.
Dispute his facts.
But he, but because he was the,he's the guy in the room.
He, okay.
So basically, okay so hereBiden, and, leading into the
election, the Warn Ukraine a bigissue in the election of last
year.
(12:44):
Okay.
We're told that that it was asunprovoked attack when actually.
This goes back to, this goesback to this to when the Soviet
Union decided to set, to stepdown in the early nineties and
so here Gorbachev was workingwith George HW Bush to say,
okay, we are going to dismantle,we're gonna release Eastern
(13:07):
Europe, the Warsaw Pac, we'regonna release, we're gonna
dismantle the Soviet Empire.
We're gonna pull all the nukesback to Russia.
And make sure they don't get inthe hands of terrorists.
We're going, we are going toabdicate communism, and we would
like to help to establish a freemarket economy in Russia, right?
We will do this.
(13:28):
We will in releasing Europe, wewill Eastern Europe, we will
support reunification of Germanyand we will support the
reunification of Germany.
As a member of nato, ourcondition is this one.
We want N we want, we don't wantNATO to expand East into Europe.
(13:49):
And why?
Because the Warsaw Pact duringthe Cold War was a security
buffer between Western Europeand Russia.
If you look at all thehistorical conflicts, major
conflicts between Europe andRussia, it comes from Western
Europe attacking Russia.
You know the Napoleonic Wars, itwas France, world War I.
It was Germany and Austria.
World War ii, it was Germany.
(14:11):
Okay, so at to the deaths ofmillions of Russians.
So that's why in the Cold Warperiod, Eastern Europe was
controlled by the Soviet Unionas a security buffer against the
West.
So what Gorbachev was saying inin, in 92 is that, okay, we will
support the reunification ofGermany even though they're
responsible for the death.
Over 20 million Soviet citizensin World War ii, we will support
(14:33):
the reunification, but NATOneeds to agree not to expand
East.
That's exactly what James Baker,secretary of State, under HW
Bush Promise, he did it in aprivate assurance now that NATO
would not advance one inch eastof Europe.
Okay.
Then Bill Clinton promptly.
(14:54):
Broke those pri broke thatprivate assurance by starting to
expand in Eastern Europe by theNega.
By the late nineties going intothe two thousands, we continued
that expansion right In 2008 atthe NATO summit, George W.
Bush announced the intent toexpand nato all the way to
(15:14):
include Ukraine and Putin whowas in control of Russia at the
time, put out a directcommunicate to uni US
ambassador.
To Ukraine saying that Russiawould consider expanding NATO to
include Ukraine as anexistential threat to the
national security of Russia.
'cause NATO forward positions,nuclear weapons like we have in
(15:37):
Poland, Romania, and Turkey.
So that was Putin notifying usin 2008, that would be
considered an existential threatthat Russia will go to war over
and would, it would go tonuclear war over to prevent.
Okay.
2014 with a democraticallyelected Ukrainian government
that was NATO neutral, that theUkrainian constitution said that
(16:02):
it was stay neutral, right?
The United States provided thefinancing under Obama, right?
Provided the financing to, forthe violent overthrow of that
democratically electedgovernment.
Jeffrey Sachs was in Ukraine in2014 because the new government
that we installed called him into help establish a new economy
(16:25):
that was independent of theRussians.
And when he got on the groundthere, he discovered that we had
paid for the overthrow.
Okay.
This is when that new governmentthen turned around and start
killing ethically RussianUkrainians.
Thousands of them.
15,000.
That's when Russia intervened inUkraine and took Crimea.
(16:46):
Okay.
By 2015, they have a peaceagreement.
And that peace agreement issponsored by Germany, France and
Poland, and is approved by theUS UN Security Council,
including the United States.
I.
That security agreement would'veprotected The sovereignty of
(17:07):
Ukraine, kept it all together,and the only difference was, is
that the ethnically Russiansoutheastern region of Ukraine
would be protected against theUkrainian government banning
Russian language, banningRussian religion, banning
Russian culture, which is whatthey were trying to do.
Okay.
The problem is, and thatagreement is called a min to
agreement.
(17:27):
The problem is the United Statesthen turned around and
instructed Ukraine not toenforce the agreement.
Okay, so here we go.
So we are not enforcing theagreement.
We paid for the violentoverthrow.
We have an anti-Russiangovernment that we installed.
The proof of that we installedit is an audio tape of Victoria
Newland, the Assistant Secretaryof State under Obama.
(17:48):
Admitting to the US Ambassadorto Ukraine, that this is the
government we're going toinstall after the overthrow, and
that is the government who tookpower.
That is the government whocalled Jeffrey Sachs.
Okay.
So between 2015 and 2021, theNew York Times, put in the front
page how we started buildingsecret military bases in Ukraine
(18:11):
and bringing in weapons.
This is when in 2021.
Russia put the, their militaryon the border of Ukraine.
But they gave us one more chancein December, 2021, Putin said a
communicate to the NATOSecretary General and that says
we would like a conference onthe security question relating
(18:34):
to Ukraine.
NATO responded and the SecretaryGeneral has admitted this
publicly responded to Putin'srequest in December, 2021 that
nato.
The business of NATO expansionis not anyone's business,
including Russia, and that NATOwould not discuss their
expansion with Russia.
(18:55):
This is when, this is the eventsthat led up to Russia attacking
Ukraine.
Wow.
It did not have to happen,right?
It certainly wasn't unprovoked.
Sure.
All this is easily verifiable.
This is an entirely differentstory.
This is not pro Putin.
This is what actually happened.
The truth is not ideological.
It is what actually happenedthat led up to this event.
(19:17):
And and so this is just onestrand and if you can just look
at the narrative that we aretold, I.
And what the actual truth of thematter is.
It is so profoundly differentthat they would lie to us, that
profoundly, this is no differentthan WMDs in Iraq.
This is right.
Different, when you are willingto, when you have leadership
(19:39):
who's willing to lie to theirpeople, to the point where
hundreds of thousands of peopleare dead because of that lie,
right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
We need to dispel those type ofnarratives.
And the only way we as peoplecan reclaim our sovereignty is
to understand what is true aboutthe things that we're told Sure.
(19:59):
That affect our lives.
'cause otherwise, this is whyyou vote for Kamala Harris,
right?
Because she's standing on theside of freedom, trying to
protect the Ukrainians.
But the fact of the matter isthat this has nothing to do with
Ukrainian sovereignty.
Do you know that there's neverbeen a democratic vote in
Ukraine in the last 20 years insupport of, in that, in support
(20:21):
of joining nato, even Zelenskyran right, his campaign, he ran
to endorse.
And enforce the min toagreements, which would've
prevented NATO ex join Ukraine,joining nato.
So that's what I'm saying.
We are being lied to andmanipulated, and we need to shed
these lies in order for us tomake choices that make sense for
us and our businesses.
(20:42):
Sure.
Yeah.
This particular election, Idon't wanna focus on the
candidates here.
Okay.
Or even the parties, if it'sokay.
But I can say I like you.
I think I have a very similarbackground in that, although I
always consider myself anindependent, if you really look
at my voting record, the truthis I've almost always voted
Democrat, with a couple ofexceptions here or there.
(21:04):
And luckily, I live in a statenow of Colorado where I can
declare myself independent andactually vote for whoever I
want.
Which is great, but on the Eastcoast it's like you, the
decisions were made on theprimary.
So you just had to, alignyourself with the majority party
and vote there.
'cause that's where the realelection was.
But exactly.
But I'll tell you, I think thisis a great example of things
(21:26):
that, you know.
As by as much as we all thinkwe're independent.
'cause you talk to everybody,everybody says that they think,
everybody thinks they're fi,they wanna be fiscally
conservative, socially liberal,right?
Everybody want thinks that theyare independent minded, but at
the end of the day, we vote oneway.
90% of the time and we're notreally there.
And there's something about theother side that gives us the
(21:48):
heebie giess and we alignourselves with the party that's
there.
And I think that's what overtime, as we, maybe it's age,
maybe it's just an awakening,maybe we had somebody who really
did a great job with themessaging.
I don't know.
But we start to see some truthsfrom the party that we're
aligned with, and they all do itright.
That, start to expose that.
(22:10):
Okay, maybe it isn't.
What my party's saying.
I'll give another great example.
Bernie yes.
Bernie is below.
He is I like to call him theconscience consciousness of the
Democratic party'cause, for whatit's worth.
But anyways, people loved him,went on the road.
People followed him like crazy.
Him and a OC are starting to dothat now again, and they're.
(22:31):
Getting big crowds, which by theway, any.
Any side that does, that usuallybuilds a big following, right?
With whatever mis the Democraticparty felt threatened by that
and they shut'em down.
And if you really start to lookat it, we haven't had a real
Democratic primary probablysince Obama won the first one.
The more, and I, the moreconsciously I start to think
(22:52):
about this,'cause a lot of myfriends love Bernie, and I'm not
saying I'm a Bernie supporternow or not, whatever.
It's just I saw that all of asudden he just got shut down.
We saw it and then we saw itreally clearly in this election,
right?
Where, we all voted for one guyand then we got somebody else,
right?
So it's and then you see thatone guy and we didn't wanna
believe that he may not havebeen stable.
(23:12):
And then we see him on TV andthen, okay, he's not stable.
So it's like you start to seethe lies for real.
And it's like, how do you denythat?
And to start.
You have to start asking thequestions consciously.
Yeah.
It's so important and I'm sohappy you bring up Bernie,
because to me, Bernie Sanders isan, is a wonderful, from a
(23:33):
democratic or progressiveperspective, I.
Example of the real divide inAmerica.
Sure.
The real divide in America isnot Republican or in Democrat.
It's not conservative andliberal.
That's right.
Those were the old divides.
The real divide in America isestablishment versus
anti-establishment.
Yes.
And by that put what in that, Imean is Bernie Sanders appeal?
(23:55):
He was talking about a politicalrevolution and the reason why
Bernie Sanders was talking abouta political revolution is that
the geopolitical andgeo-economic policies of the
neoliberal neoconservativeproject, which is two sides of
the same coin, so you know, thatgeopolitical policy of American
hegemony, one superpower in thepost Cold War period, right?
(24:20):
And that American Hege hegemonywould be supported by the
forever wars we would befighting across the globe and
look at us for the last 30years.
Look at our federal debt.
We had$4 trillion in debt in 92.
We got 37 trillion today.
Why?
Because we fought war for almostthe entire time.
And there's that New York act.
There it is.
(24:40):
I heard it.
I was gonna say that.
And okay so the geopoliticalpolicy of the neoliberal
neoconservative agenda was.
American hegemony onesuperpower, right?
Yeah.
The economics was globalization.
Yeah, globalization.
It started with Clinton, withNAFTA and the whole na, they
liberalized GA and stuff likethat so that American
(25:01):
corporations could then go laborshopping around the globe for
the best lowest cost labor.
And what that did to Americandomestic Labor is it
commoditized them.
It made them compete againstSouth Korea.
It made them compete againstMexico.
It made them compete againstChina.
And so what happened to wages inthe United States?
They stayed flat for 30 years.
(25:22):
Yeah.
Okay.
So the anti-establishment is theabandoned.
Middle class and working classAmericans.
That's right.
Who did not get served byglobalization?
Who won globalization?
The professional class and thebig and wealth.
We produced the wealthiestbillionaire class in global
(25:44):
history.
One of these.
Uber wealthy billionaires likeElon Musk has more money
adjusted for inflation than theentire Gilded Age.
Yeah.
The Rockefellers, the melonsdoes.
That's how much wealth wecreated at the top.
Yeah.
At the expense.
The Federal Reserve said in 2021that for the first time in US
history, the top 1% have morewealth and income than the
(26:07):
entire American middle class.
Yeah.
Who voted for Trump, who votedfor Bernie, the working class
and middle class Americans whogot left behind, right?
That's right.
And the problem with what theDemocrats did by snuffing Bernie
twice is that they reallythought that these working
class.
(26:27):
People would buy into the hypethat they are the party of the
working person.
They long Clinton changed thatthey are the party of Wall
Street.
And Forever Wars.
And all, and that includesObama.
So what do these people do?
They didn't go vote for Hillary.
I.
They turned around and startedvoting for Trump.
Yeah.
Why?
Because they let a billionaireframe himself.
He frame, he's a marketing guy.
(26:48):
Totally.
That's all he does.
He gets it.
He framed himself as theanti-establishment guy.
Yeah.
And goes to Michigan and talksabout how he's bringing these
jobs back.
Okay.
So no matter the fact that he'sa billionaire and benefited from
all that.
He they deferred, he understood.
He read the electorate.
Yeah.
And understood that mostAmericans are not served by this
(27:11):
economics.
So what does that make?
2024.
That's America's Brexit.
The reason why the UK voted toleave the European Union is
domestic middle class and laborand working class people did not
get served by the EuropeanUnion.
Only the professional class andwealth.
Same thing that happened inAmerica.
This trend is not unique.
(27:33):
Louis, my friend.
For the first time in globalhistory, every major democracy
across the global north, fromJapan to Canada, throughout
Europe voted out incumbents.
Because the majorities are notserved by globalization, only
wealth in the professionalclass.
(27:53):
So what this is what drove theelection.
It was less about Trump and acomplete repudiation of
neoliberalism of, if KamalaHarris had the character, and I
say character because they askedher many times, is there
anything you could think of thatyou would do different than Joe
Biden?
Yeah.
If she had the strength ofcharacter to step out there and
say, yes, people would've beenopen to that.
(28:15):
Absolutely.
But people were not gonna affirma policy that doesn't serve
them, so it became a rejection,a repudiation of the incumbent
just like it was.
Across the world.
Sure.
I think there's been severalelections in my lifetime where
the anti-establishment candidatewon.
(28:37):
And it was really, I.
And then they take power andthey become the rule, because
they become the ruling class.
They become the establishment,and that goes on usually for a
few cycles, right?
I think Reagan, Clinton, Obama,now Trump, I believe those are
probably four in my lifetime,that, that were
anti-establishment victories,their first wins, right?
(29:00):
Like they you can, we candisagree or not, but I, how
does.
With that in mind, how does howdo we get that to happen more
often?
So we don't have anestablishment that can, a new
establishment that continuestheir, a self-serving status quo
for them rather than the masses,right?
(29:21):
The middle class and the workingclass.
Interesting thing, and this iswhat I would say to you, Louis,
and to the audience listening,this is the thing that
separates, and I am not a Trumpsupporter.
Sure.
But this is what separates Trumpfrom everyone else.
You just said his motivation.
Why as a billionaire does hechoose to take.
(29:43):
To take the mantle of theanti-establishment is, and the
reason why is even though he isa product of the patriarchy,
sure.
He's a product of theestablishment.
They have never accepted him asa respected member of their
class.
And I think the turning pointwas in 2000, was it 2011?
2012 during the Obamaadministration at the White
(30:06):
House Correspondence dinner.
I saw that.
I saw that Yes.
When Obama was on stage roastingTrump, who's in the crowd.
Yeah.
And he eviscerated.
And totally trivialized.
Yeah.
His career as on the, apprenticeand stuff like that.
That's right.
Relative to a president and thechoices that the president has
to make.
And this was this, I thinksomething snapped in Trump.
Sitting in that audience becausehe is a narcissist.
(30:28):
Absolutely.
Which she said, okay, fine.
Yeah, fine.
I will never be accepted bythese people.
So I'm going to get, I'm gonnabe president, and when I'm
president, I'm gonna dismantlewhat they've done.
And this is the differencebetween, that's why I'm saying
this is different and maybe andwhy this could be good from.
The perspective of people whowere not served by the la, the
(30:48):
economics and the geopolitics ofthe last 30 years, right?
Is that.
If you look at what he's tryingto do, the significance of Tulsi
Gabbard, he, okay.
Trump literally went to thecenter last August when during
the Democratic Convention he theDemocrats were are anointing
Kamala.
(31:09):
He reaches out to RFK Jr.
Another centrist, democrat, ElonMusk is a centrist Democrat.
Look at their history, theirbackground, everything they've
stood for, everything theysupportable for, all the
candidates they pay for, okay?
Tulsi ga from Hawaii, that theDemocratic Party in Hawaii is
not con is centrist to liberal.
And that's a deep tradition outthere, right?
She comes up in it.
(31:30):
He went, he appointed her to bethe Director of National
Intelligence because themethodology for enforcing
American hegemony was to funnelmoney, billions, ultimately
trillions of dollars throughU-S-A-I-D to finance.
In insert Counterinsurgenciesthat destabilize governments
(31:53):
that then we could flood thezone with weapons for the
benefit of the militaryindustrial complex.
Sure.
And so this is what created allthe wars.
This is what we did in Ukraine.
Okay.
He hired Tulsi Gabbard becauseher claim, the reason why
Hillary ran her out of theDemocratic party is because she
opposes.
This type of activity.
She wants to end the foreverwars.
(32:14):
Yeah.
And so he did, if there's awoman listening to this who's
looking for a woman in power whoactually comes from that defined
feminine, yeah.
Who's not just trying to emulateHenry Kissinger.
That's Tulsi Gabbard.
And he put her in one of themost powerful positions to end
our use.
Our funneling of our treasury tocause these conflicts around the
(32:36):
world.
And that's what she spoke aboutin her confirmation hearing.
You can hear all the details andthat's why the establishment
hates her is because she, thisshe's trying to cut off the
money train.
Okay.
Putting R-F-K-H-H-S, right?
Same thing.
Both the pharmaceutical industryand big food, right?
Have the fortunes that they havemade while American Health has
(32:59):
continued to decline right overdecade, after decade.
COVID proved the magnitude ofour unhealthiness.
Totally.
Is that 25% of the COVID deathswere because of our co
comorbidities when we only havewhat, less than 5% of the global
population?
Kevin, if anybody ever goestravel anywhere else in the
world, you'll see it right away.
(33:21):
'cause all these reactions wehave to foods that we have
almost become numb to it.
That we just take it.
Oh, that's just the way it is.
Was it supposed to feel likecrap after having a burger?
No, we're not.
And you go have a burger.
I was in Japan in 24 early and Iremember I hadn't, I was
training for something.
I had a burger in a while,finally had one after my event.
And then and then I had one.
I felt great.
It was delicious, felt great.
(33:43):
All this stuff.
Then I get back to the states.
I'm at LAX, I see another burgerstand.
It's a fancy gourmet, healthywhatever.
I eat it and I'm like.
Dying the rest of the day.
This is disgusting, yeah.
So it doesn't take much.
Just go try and then you gottastart questioning.
Why is it that the same thingI'm eating here?
Is not having the impact that Iwould have back home.
(34:04):
No, that's right.
You asked that question.
It's just, it just blows yourmind.
What do we do in this state, inthe states?
No, this is why it's critical.
This is at the heart of my book.
It's critical for us to make, inorder for each of us to make
decisions that can positivelyimpact our lives.
Yeah.
That that, whether it's runningour businesses or making our
personal choices, we have toknow what is true.
(34:27):
I.
Yeah, about what we're told sothat we can make informed
choices.
What we're being told, themagnitude of the lies that we're
being told totally are detachedfrom reality, and they're
designed to get us to do thingsthat actually hurt ourselves,
including again the food that weeat, right?
We're getting down to a pointwhere if you don't buy local.
(34:47):
If you don't, if you don't haveany type of relationship with
the people who politician yourfood you need to call them into
question whether you're eatingpoison, and I don't mean like
arsenic poisoning.
The kind of poison that in 10years now you're, obese and, and
suffering from all theseco-morbidities that's gonna lead
to your death in some otherunrelated way, so it, and then
how so how do we find a truth,Kevin?
(35:08):
How do we find a truth?
The benefit is we live in theage of information.
Yes.
And all I'm saying here iseveryone has a smart, most
people have smartphones, mostpeople have the internet.
As we, we need to move past.
This idea of this is a trustedsource of information, so I
don't have to check, or this isa person and responsibility.
(35:28):
I don't have to check from nowon, make it a practice, if it's
going to involve how you makeyour decisions and the basis by
which you make your decisions.
Verify that it's true simple.
Google searches start to dothis.
What is the hist, what is thehistory that led up to this
moment?
Is it true with the advent ofai?
I had the most fascinatingdiscovery with chat GPT.
(35:51):
You could use chat, g chat, GPTto verify these stories by
asking it the point.
Is that really true?
Does the data, the, does theinformation you have support
that statement?
And take any statement, anyclassic state, but like Admiral
Kirby announcing that SouthAfrica's case of genocide
against Israel is baseless andwithout merit.
(36:15):
That's what he said as thespokesperson for the National
Security Council for PresidentBiden.
Okay.
Then the International Court ofJustice rules that actually the
evidence supports the fact thatthey are commanding genocide.
How could it be baseless andwithout merit?
So the thing is check there inany way based on your own
individual resources.
(36:35):
If it's a decision that is goingto impact your life before you
just believe what you were told,make sure it's true, and then
adjust.
Then adjust accordingly and makethat a part of your practice.
Do you now find that?
A lot of these sources, evenGoogle are bias.
I Fine.
No, you're, yeah, you're right.
You.
Here's the thing.
(36:56):
The reason why it's not an easything when lying became normal.
It not it's not easy to find thetruth in that respect, but it is
easy to find it.
That's the funny thing about itis the lie, the only way the lie
works.
Is if you simply accept it forwhat it is, right?
But the more you triangulate thelie that you're trying to check
(37:17):
or the statement that you'retrying to check, you are gonna
find.
It's not the same thing asyou're being told.
And that's then and when youjust say anything else in your
life, you find out, oh.
That's not how I was told.
Then you dig a little deeper andyou dig a little.
Okay.
So in the process of checkingwhat we're told, I know this has
been my my, my practice.
(37:37):
You will Perfect.
Who actually tells you thetruth.
You'll perfect the process ofvalidating from 12 different
sources.
'cause it the internet and g andAI is that powerful, make that a
part of your practice, that isan essential skill until we can
change our normal culture to getback to a place where we don't
(37:58):
lie to each other as a matter ofbusiness as usual.
And that's the tragedy.
That's where we are.
So yeah that, that was how Iwould recommend Yeah.
That people do and can figure itout.
It's no different than, okay, Ineed to buy a car.
I have this much in my budget.
How would you go about doingthat?
They look, they it's the samething.
Whatever the story is, do yourinvestigation like you were
(38:21):
gonna per make a major purchaseand then do what makes sense.
Once you find out if it's true,and if you find out what it's
not true, what is theimplications of the person?
This look in you an eye andtelling you something that is so
diametrically opposed to whatactually happened.
And that's the war in Ukraine.
Yeah.
That that that's genocide andGaza.
Yeah.
That is so many differentthings.
(38:42):
Yeah.
Kevin, I this is the kind ofepisode I've often thought
about.
I admire my counterparts likeJoe Rogan or Lex Friedman who,
go on for three hour interviewand you're the kind of guest
that we would want to have thatkind of long form.
Episode with, but we're notthere yet, unfortunately.
I still have another career.
Oh yeah, you were my friend.
So I'm gonna have to shift overto our Wayfinder four questions
(39:04):
for now, if that's all right.
So if you can sure.
Just give us a hack, a life hackthat you use every day.
You can share with our audience.
Yeah, absolutely.
And the thing is I've alreadygiven away the lead on this one.
Yeah.
The hack that I use, I seriouslyis I verify the information I'm
told before.
(39:25):
In other words, I'm guided bythe truth.
And it really is a superpowerbecause once you eliminate the
false information.
You one, you're gonna find thatmost of your competitors, most
of the people making the choice,unfortunately, are misguided by
the false information.
Like I said, it is a competitiveadvantage if you could verify
what you're told, make sure it'strue, and then make the best
(39:46):
decision that you could makebased on that information.
Yeah.
Organize your life based on thatinformation.
It is an absolute pack forwhat's going on.
Yeah.
How about a favorite.
Just a show, podcast, bookactivity.
Yeah, whatever.
You just a favorite thing.
You like one of my favorites.
Okay.
I.
So many of those, so many ofthose categories, but based on
(40:07):
how this, the flavor of this,I'm gonna shift it up a little
bit.
There's a documentary that thatit's, and it's available on,
it's available on Netflix.
And it is done by Sir DavidAttenborough and it is called a
Life on Our Planet.
And this brings in the climateside of it, and it's an amazing
documentary in that it spansDavid Attenborough's and he
(40:31):
released it like October of 2020during COVID, right?
It spans his life of bringingthe wild.
Us and he shows how thepercentage of the planet that is
wild, that is untouched, hasdiminished over the course of
his life to the point where it'sgetting critically low.
But he does this to try todemonstrate what impact our
(40:53):
modern.
Modern lifestyle is having onthe planet.
But then he turns around and hetalks about the positive.
He doesn't just leave us withthe problem and he takes us to
Chernobyl, so I'm not gonnatake, I'm not gonna steal the
thunder.
'cause it, it's amazing how heshows this story.
Yeah, no, we'll check it out.
Yeah.
But he, yeah.
So a life, one.
A life on the planet.
Life on our planet.
Great.
(41:14):
And excellent.
How about a piece of advice forour younger self?
I thought a long time about thisquestion, and the reason why is
that my answer is I would notapproach my younger self.
I know I've heard this, people aasked this so many times, but I
would not.
Tell my younger self any of thebenefit of the experience that
(41:36):
we would have gained had theynot met me as my older self.
'Cause I don't want that youngerself to change anything they
did.
Why?
Because we learned so much fromthat process and then we would
not be who we are today.
And I want my, the best thing Icould do for my younger self,
and this is not.
This is not about ego.
(41:57):
This is about doing the internalwork.
The best thing I could do for myyounger self is allow him to
become who we became, that'sultimately an aspiration.
Now, if I was ashamed of who Iam, I.
This is an easy question.
No, no, I work hard to be inthis space.
I love that.
And that's involved in takingsome sober looks in the mirror.
(42:17):
I love that.
I was listening to an interviewwith Morgan Housel, who, wrote
the ecology of money and he.
He talked about billionaire he'sknown a lot of billionaires.
He studied them.
He wrote the book on on how theythink and everything.
And he said that there's like anevolution where they all know
that they all wanna buy the bighouse when they made it right.
(42:38):
And so they go and buy the bighouse.
Along that time, they realizethat they don't like the big
house.
It's the thing.
And so then there's anotherevolution where you go from
having a big house to yacht.
Its all that to then justgetting rid of it all and
simplifying your life again.
And the point of that is exactlywhat you just said.
There's something to the, theyall know it.
These are some of the smartestwell-read people in the world.
(43:00):
Incredibly successful.
They know they shouldn't do it,but they have to do it anyways
and experience it.
And I think sometimes you'reabsolutely right.
It doesn't matter what advice weget, we know it, but we're not
gonna take it.
We gotta do it ourselves.
Experience it.
You gotta go through it.
You gotta learn the lessonyourself and then you can become
what you can be.
Yes, totally.
So that's a great answer.
So last one, how about a bigopportunity or a limiting
(43:21):
belief?
Yeah, the, this is a greatquestion.
And the thing about it is thelimiting and the li to identify
the limiting belief exposes thebig opportunity.
So what's the limiting belief?
I believe that the virtuesvalues and.
(43:42):
Narratives of our culture in theUnited States specifically.
'cause this is the culture Iknow right.
Have effectively obscured usfrom who we are.
When you think of independence,freedom, self-interest,
competition.
As the measuring sticks forbuilding a successful life,
(44:04):
these are at the core of what itis to be an American, the
problem is that those fourvirtues, particularly how they
have been expressed over thelast 40, 50 years, right?
They convince us of things thatare simply not true based on our
lived experience.
So the limited the limitingbelief is that I can advance my
(44:25):
interests without consideringLouie that I that what is better
for me and my family.
Notwithstanding what that doesto louisie is fine as long as we
both do this fear and squareright, when in fact I don't
survive.
Without your contribution andthe contributions of thousands
(44:45):
of people, I will never know.
I don't produce the food that Ieat.
I don't produce the clothes thatI wear.
I don't produce the air that Ibreathe.
I don't produce this technologythat allows us to talk right by
convincing me of myindependence.
And that I can advance my own, Ican actually benefit from only
thinking about myself and myinterests.
(45:06):
It obscures the fact that I am apart, we are interdependent on
each other.
Not codependent.
Yeah.
Interdependent.
There's a symbiotic relationshipbetween me and you and my friend
and us and the rest of societyand us and the, in the natural
environment that sustains us.
And by ignoring that.
It induces us to do what?
Create the climate crisis.
(45:27):
It induces us to create wealthand income inequality.
Yeah.
It induces us to create allthese challenges, existential
now challenges.
And until we remember the bigopportunity is remembering that
we are interdependent and that'sour strength.
This is how we defeated thedinosaurs because we cooperated.
This is how you know, okay, by,this is the superpower
(45:48):
opportunity.
We need to remember who we are.
We are interdependent and that'sa good thing.
Nothing in nature livesindependently.
Man, I absolutely love thatanswer.
It is.
We can have a whole episode juston that and I have some
questions around some of thatfor,'cause I know you write a
lot about that too.
(46:09):
And I'm a kind of, it just meanswe gotta have another episode
'cause that was Hey, I'm all forit Louis.
I'm all for it.
Particularly if you wanna do therogue and ask and go for it, we
can do that.
Oh man.
Yeah.
I got a car ride a lot of times.
That's right.
Joe doesn't have to have all thefun.
That's right.
That's right.
Man, that was so profound.
I, first of all, I gotta sayjust the way you started that,
(46:31):
to identify the limiting belief,I.
Exposes are big opportunities.
I wrote that down.
I am probably gonna, that is sodeep.
And that's actually why I askedthat question together.
I've just never been able tosynthesize it the way you did in
that statement.
That is beautiful.
And I thank you for that andthen, the whole point about
interdependence versuscompetition, I think, our
(46:55):
listeners know I'm a marathonrunner and I'm a competitive
guy.
I like to consider myself acompetitive guy.
But, ask anybody who reallylikes running marathons.
First of all, they're probably alittle sick in the head, right?
It's not really joyful.
But how do you get through it?
At first you train hard.
First of all, there's a lot ofteammates with that.
We all love each other.
We support each other.
All that.
It's like we really feel greatfor each other.
When I feel so happy.
(47:17):
I'm getting chills just thinkingabout my teammates.
Yeah.
When they run and they get a PRand all that, just as much as my
own right.
But oftentimes a lot of us,we've talked about on our runs,
how at the end what gets youthrough the end, like past the
big wall.
Yeah.
It's seeing that person that'sright there struggling next to
you and grabbing them andsaying, come on, let's get there
(47:37):
together.
We can do this.
And you get there and at the endit's just like this bond that's
just, and you did it and.
There's no competition there.
It's a, it's an interdependentness getting there to the end,
and it is way, way moresatisfying, a much better
feeling than winning that race.
I think, and I've heard thisfrom people who win races,
right?
(47:58):
Yeah.
Mev K Kki, who was one ofAmerica's best runners.
He talked about it in one of hisbooks.
It is a.
It is a real trait that we don'tpush in our society, but makes
us feel incredibly good.
So I thank you for bringing thatup.
That is a very profound thought,I appreciate that, Louis.
And I just wanna say as itrelates to each of those
(48:18):
virtues, it's not like there'sno application.
It's just that the way we applythem, so in the case of
competition is survivaltechnique of course, and
appropriately so in a contextwhere there's not enough for me
and you, the best way for us isto compete in order to get, as
opposed to just brute force.
Okay.
Yeah.
But when there is enough forboth of us, this should not be
(48:40):
the means by which people accesshealthcare.
Yeah.
This should not be the means bywhich people access food,
otherwise it becomes a bloodsport.
That's what we have in Americawhere most of the it is us
versus them haves versus haves,nots.
And yet the have-nots areessential.
Didn't we learn that duringCOVID?
Totally.
The lowest paid people in oursociety are the essential world.
(49:00):
That's insane.
It is.
So this is how we defeatourselves.
This is a misapplication of anotherwise good concept.
Yeah.
And so yeah, it's about findingthat, that balance my friend.
So Kevin, if people wanna knowmore about you, find your
essays, where can they find you?
Absolutely.
Thank you for asking.
On my website is wwwonward@last.com,
(49:24):
O-N-W-A-R-D-A-T-L-A-S t.com.
And on there you'll not only geta preview of my book onward at
last, it's not, and it's comingin, it's in hardcover,
paperback.
Ebook and the audio book by thiswonderful actress Carol and
Jania and stuff like that.
But if you can't afford to buythe book, the commentaries are
(49:47):
available in the blog tab.
Okay?
All of them are available forthe blog tab, the Universal one,
this blog, and it's right thereon the same website.
But yeah, the purchase links arethere if you wanna purchase the
book or purchase a version, orif you just want to access the
commentaries.
That's it.
Awesome.
Kevin, I was a little nervousabout this one'cause like I
said, I haven't gotten into anypolitical, quote unquote
(50:08):
controversial stuff, but I, thishas been a lot of fun and it's
been something I wanted to moveinto a little bit more just to
get people to think.
And I thank you for helping mego in this direction and making
it comfortable, and I hopepeople really enjoy it.
And they go think and they checkout your stuff and think on a
deeper level about, what thetruth is.
Lou, thank you so much for athoughtful conversation.
(50:30):
Yes.
We, the thing about third railsis you could, if your heart
centered with your approachYeah.
You could touch the third rail.
It's gonna be all right.
And I think we did okay today.
Yeah.
Thank.
We hope you've enjoyed theWayfinder Show.
If you've got value from thisepisode, please take a few
seconds to leave us a five starrating and review.
(50:52):
This will allow us to help morepeople find their way to live
more authentic and excitinglives.
We'll catch you on the nextepisode.
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