Ep. 162: The Family Jones with Jamie Burns

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
David (00:02):
Hey folks, welcome to a new episode of the
Whiskey Ring Podcast.
This week we're going to Colorado and, to
be honest, I don't think that I've
interviewed a Colorado distiller yet.
So I believe that this is going to be the
first one and to inaugurate us into
Colorado, we are going to be talking to
Jamie Burns of the Family Jones Distillery.

(00:24):
To Jamie Burns of the Family Jones
Distillery.
This is based in Loveland, colorado, with a
site also in Denver.
And with that, jamie, welcome on.

Jamie Burns (00:34):
Thanks for having me Excited to be here.

David (00:36):
So, just starting with your background,
you've got, let's's say, a plethora of of
background and of academics to back it up.
So, as you know, you're the lead distiller
for them, usually based in the Denver
location, but lead distiller for title.

(00:57):
You recently finished a master of science
in brewing and distilling from Harriet Watt,
after an earlier degree in biosystem
engineering and a specialization fermented
beverage science and technology, which is a
lot to say.
So I'm going to take a breath.
So did you feel pretty early on this,
before your time at Family Jones, before

(01:17):
even Harriet Watt, that brewing, distilling,
this was something that you really wanted
to go into for your career, something that
you really wanted to go into for your
career.

You know I like problem solving and I like
food and beverage and I kind of wanted to
put those things together.
That's kind of where the biosystems
engineering degree originated working in
food, agricultural type commodities and
then figuring out how to get stuff to
people in a safe way From there.

(01:45):
I was lucky enough to have opportunities
come up kind of organically where I just
got connected with really good mentors and
really good opportunities.
I worked with a professor in horticulture
at Michigan State and his background was in
wine grapes.
So Dr Perry at Michigan State got me

(02:06):
started kind of working in his lab doing
kind of the growing part of the puzzle
working with wine grapes.
We also did apples, cherries kind of
anything that he was working on.
I would help him with and through him and
his involvement in the fermented beverage
program.
I got connected to another professor, dr
Chris Berglund, and got to not only take

(02:29):
classes with Dr Berglund but also got to
work at his distillery.
So that's kind of where I fell in love with
the whole process of it and from there,
from working in his distillery in my senior
year of college, I kind of haven't gone
back.

David (02:44):
And I must have them on at some point,
because we've had a couple of distillers
and producers who have come through the MSU
program, either academically through a
program or are related in some other way,
and it seems like one of those centers,
just like UC Davis and Harriet Watt, where
there's so much being done there.
But of course MSU is one of the few with an

(03:06):
actual distillery on site.

Yeah, absolutely, dr Riley passed away
since my time at school but another one of
my classmates who graduated was working on
her PhD and now she kind of runs the
program Michigan State Brian.
A shout out to her, she's a badass and

(03:31):
things and continue to, uh, you know, move
that.
Uh, that legacy of excellence.
Uh, definitely other people come program.

David (03:40):
uh, before my time a little bit was program
before my time a little bit, and he has
definitely been one who has taken what
they've learned throughout the whole thing.

(04:03):
I think, jamie, we're losing the audio a
little bit.

I'm just gonna chop in and out.
Let's see you have earbuds, right I do.
Let's see you have earbuds, right I do.

David (04:07):
Let's see.

Sometimes it's the earbuds, sometimes it's
the Internet.
Yeah, stopping my video can sometimes help.
I know I've got an older laptop.
Sometimes just trying to do video and audio
is a bit much.
Is that coming through a little bit better?

David (04:25):
Yeah, I think so.
Yeah, that sounds good.
So from the bits and pieces I got, I know
that was a great answer and a great
explanation of MSU.
If you wouldn't mind restating, Absolutely
so.

Dr Berglin, since I have graduated from
Michigan State, has passed away.
So Dr Bergland, since I have graduated from
Michigan State, has passed away.
Another one of my classmates who I took
classes with carried on with Dr Bergland
and got her PhD and now she runs the
program there.
So Dr Nicole Reiner is a total badass and
carrying on the excellence at Michigan

(05:01):
State.
Another person who was at Michigan State
just before me was Johnny Jeffries, and he
is definitely someone in the craft industry
who has taken what they've learned at
Michigan State and really connected and
distributed that information throughout the
industry.

David (05:17):
That's fantastic and I think it's a vestige
of prohibition of different, let's say,
political and religious movements that
there aren't a lot of brewing, distilling,
winemaking, just courses and programs
available in the US, Really throughout the
world.
Let's be honest, there aren't a lot.
So I'm curious how you went from that to

(05:39):
getting connected and going to Harriet Watt
connected and going to Harriet Watt.

You know the Harriet Watt jump was just a
way to kind of continue my education on a
technical level.
I spent some years in the industry between
graduating Michigan State and going back to
school, so it really was, in that sense, a
master's program it was.
I had gone into the distilling world,
learned some hands-on experience uh, and
then kind of wanted to just touch up and go

(06:10):
deeper on all the theoretical, practical,
uh scientific sides of it.
You know, kind of find out where I was
interested in really honing my skills and
and focusing on.
So, uh, the Harriet Watt program was was a
great program.
Um, they based in Scotland.
Uh, they definitely have a large focus on

(06:33):
Scotch whiskey and and kind of the uh
British English style of beer brewing.
So, um, it was a ton of great information.
And then it's all about you know how you
bring that back and bring that back to an
American distilling barley, into a craft
distilling scene in the US where a lot of

(07:07):
the producers are making a grain-on style
whiskey.
So at the Family Jones we're doing bourbon
and rye whiskeys with a grain-on focus.
So we don't have the traditional lauder ton
that you use in a brewing process or a
scotch malt whiskey making process.
So we haven't done a malt whiskey for scale

(07:30):
because of that, because the flavors that
you get when you make a malt whiskey in a
grain-on situation are going to be vastly
different than when you brew it like a beer
and water it and separate those grains out
before rotation.
So the naked barley was being bred at

(07:52):
Oregon State by Dr Bridget Mains out there
and I connected with her through a program
that the Colorado State University in
Colorado Springs puts on and they bring in
people from all over focused on what's new,
what's interesting, what's going on in

(08:13):
grains.
I connected with her there and she was
growing naked barley and trying to get
brewers to use it In brewing and in Scotch
malt whiskey making.
That hull is really important for
separation.
So to use the naked barley in a brewing
sense you would need a mash filter.

(08:35):
Now that is a large investment in terms of
equipment cost and it's not necessarily
something a lot of brewers have set up
already.
So when I heard her talk I was like this is
super interesting, but not from a brewing
sense.
But what can we do with it?
I'm a.
What can we do with it for craft whiskey?

(08:57):
Can we make?
Can we use that to make you know a malt
whiskey using grain?
on techniques that we're using already and
when I talked to her, you know, have you
asked her, have you trialed this at all
with any distilling?
The answer is no.
So, uh, through that connection I was able
to take that grain as uh, as a resource and

(09:23):
uh, do my thesis on what does that look
like for a craft production scale.
So it's been a couple of years, we've
published our work and this year our
farmers are harvesting their first crop of
naked barley.
So our farmers that we work super close
with are the Olanders at Root Shoot Malting

(09:45):
and they are pulling out of their fields
now the naked barley.
It'll rest for a little bit, they'll
germinate or they'll malt it and then,
hopefully next year, we'll start to bring
to full-scale production some naked malt
whiskey.

David (10:00):
That does speak to a couple of things, but
the first thing that came to mind was that
the process for producing a whiskey.
I was going to ask have you started making
any whiskey with this?
And then you kind of elaborated and said
this takes years to get from the original
seed stock to growing enough to produce I

(10:20):
mean even a small amount of distillate from,
and then having to age it.
I mean even a small amount of distillate
from and then having to age it.
So I am very curious to see how that goes
as you distill and then mature it.
Do you know?
In the time between when you did the thesis,
you said at that point there had been no
distilling partners and no one doing

(10:41):
distilling who had taken that risk.
Yet has there been anyone who has done so
since then?

You know not that I've heard of.
I've talked to some people who have
definitely been interested in it.
I know some big producers are starting to
come out with an American single malt.
From my understanding they're either doing
a grain-on whiskey or a laudered whiskey.
But I haven't heard of anyone using naked
grain to do that and and part of the reason

(11:09):
is because the grain, the naked variety of
barley, it wasn't necessarily um bred with
distillers in mind.
So it's going to have some different
properties of what typical malting barley
will have.
It's going to be higher in beta glucans,
which can cause some viscosity and some
sticking issue throughout the whole process

(11:33):
and it just malts differently.
So there's a learning curve with with
maltsters in in terms of how you malt it.
The husk you know for brewers is important
in in terms of the filtration bed that it
creates.
For a mulcher.
The husk actually protects the endosperm

(11:53):
during the process.
So the endosperm is kind of like the little
shoot that starts to grow on a barley
kernel and that grows between the seed and
the husk is kind of like binding it to the
the seed and protecting it as it moves
throughout the malting process.
When the embryo kind of breaks off, there

(12:15):
can be um, there can be issues with with
the malting process and it not becoming
complete, and then you can get some kind of
unmalted or lower quality malt out of the
process.
So it not becoming complete and then you
can get some kind of unmalted or lower
quality mulch out of the process.
So it's just been kind of a learning curve
throughout the, the whole supply chain, um,
and we're lucky to work with a mulcher who

(12:35):
is willing to take on that risk with us and
um, and who's kind of the right size to do
it.
It's not something where you could grow a
few acres of this and take it to a big
mulcher and say, run a massive batch of it.
Our mulcher is willing to take the risk and

(12:56):
run one trial of it to see what happens and
they're kind of the right size to do that.

David (13:04):
Very nice.
Again.
I really do look forward to seeing what
comes of that.
At the risk of cutting off what I believe
would be a fantastic conversation on this,
like I could go, like I said, we can go
deep on this broadcast with the scientific
side, but I do, of course, want to give due
time to where you are now, which is the

(13:25):
Family Jones.
So, as we normally do with either smaller
distillers or ones that need a little bit
more attention, if you could, what is the
origin story for the Family Jones?

Absolutely so.
The Family Jones was founded by our head
distiller, rob Masters, and our business
partner, paul Tamburello.
Paul Tamburello is looking for the next
cool project to work on.
Paul is an excellent part of the community
and business person here in Colorado, in

(14:00):
the Denver area especially.
He owns all sorts of different ventures and
his next venture that he was interested in
was a distillery.
So Rob Masters, our head distiller, was
looking for his next move as well, and the
two of them got connected and started.

(14:20):
What is now the Family Jones so grew from
our first idea of the location in Denver.
What we call now the Spirit House is kind
of our R&D pilot facility and then also our
forward-facing tasting room.
So our customer experience as well is all

(14:41):
in denver.
And then we grew to add on the loveland
facility, which is kind of like, uh, the
muscle behind our, our operation.
So loveland is where most of most the, the
heavy lifting happens.
It's, uh, the majority of our production
happens here.
The uh, all the bottling that we do is in
loveland, and then most of our barrel aging

(15:02):
as well.
So it's grown from, you know, a little
kernel of idea to a facility that supports,
you know, a lot of the bars and restaurants
in our area and really in the last couple
of years we've doubled down on our
relationships with local farmers to really

(15:25):
showcase and highlight what they're working
on and support them in the journey to using
regenerative agriculture to help to help,
you know heal the land and build a
community and a system that can be set up
to thrive for years to come.

David (15:46):
So, with Colorado in particular, it's one
of those states that regularly has, you
know, a number of distilleries popping up,
growing over time.
We know some of the bigger names, of course,
but it also was known beforehand for having
a very strong brewing community and I think
there's a it's fair to say there's a
through line from the growth of brewing

(16:07):
culture, craft brewing culture, to growth
of craft distilling in the state as well.
So where do you feel Family Jones fits
within the Colorado distilling landscape?

Absolutely.
I will admit that I was surprised to hear
I'm your first guest from Colorado.
I don't know how I feel about that.
There's so many great distillers here in
the state.

David (16:32):
It's not for lack of trying, I'll admit.

Yeah, so kind of how Michigan State's a
unique place in that it's a center of
learning and all that for the industry.
Colorado's kind of kind of the same way.
You've got enough concentration of people
that you can really lean in and learn from
each other, grow together, support each

(16:55):
other.
So the distilling industry in Colorado is
is great.
Where we're it's not really a competitive
atmosphere.
We'll meet outside of working hours to have
friendly competitions and hang out.

(17:16):
Whenever we see each other at conferences
it's like family reunion.
But I think that there is definitely the
correlation between, uh, the craft brew
scene and the craft distilling scene.
Uh 100.
You know a lot of distillers get their
start in in the brew.

(17:36):
Um, you can learn a lot of the, the skills
needed to be a good distiller.
Uh in the uh from, from brewing, you know
all the mas, cooking, the first part of the
process is all the same the fermentation.
Understanding that whole science of
everything is important into creating a
beautiful distillate.

(17:57):
So you find a lot of people with the right
set of skills to move into the distilling
industry.
And then, too, our network of suppliers,
consumers, all of that, it all grows
together so we'll source grains from the

(18:20):
same people who are selling to brewers the
same chemical suppliers, that type of stuff.
All that infrastructure is here because
selling to brewers the same you know
chemical suppliers, that type of stuff.
All that infrastructure is here because of
the brewers.
So it's really convenient.
There's everything.
You know who you're buying your grains from
to who's plumbing out your facility, like.

(18:40):
There's just that.
Enough mass the word I'm looking for, the
critical mass to get everything moving
Right.
And and two, we have a great set of
consumers and also a great set of retailers
who have been through this before.
So consumers who have moved to craft beer

(19:02):
understand the difference between a macro
brew and a craft brew in terms of quality
and because of that you know they're
willing to to make that jump in craft
spirits as well and move from a large
producer to a small producer and give them
a chance.
And I would say the same with with the
retailers.
That small independent retailers really

(19:24):
helped build the Colorado craft beer scene
to what it is.
Have been a big part of doing that for
distillers as well.

David (19:33):
On a podcast called Heroic Hospitality last
year.
Rob, your co-founder, excuse me and master
distiller said that you know four fifths of
the people on staff are quote-unquote
rescued from brewing.
His words, not mine, and, as I said,
there's certainly something to be said for

(19:53):
distillers being kind of grown-up brewers.
Also his words, assuming that that staff
ratio is even close to accurate.
Does the Family Jones look for that
particular skill in the hiring process or
is it more coincidence from being where you
are with such a strong brewing tradition?

You know, I don't think it's a prerequisite
by any means, but I think from brewing you
find people who are dedicated to the craft
and that's really what we look for in our
team.
We want people who are all in and who are
here for it and who know the difference
between a good quality spirit and something

(20:40):
that's not up to snuff.
So I think the ratio is true.
I did a little stint in the brewing world
myself, but I definitely I don't think that
it's a requirement.
It's just kind of how it is.

(21:01):
I would say it's definitely from where
we're at.
It's like, you know, as Rob would say, it's
like brewing the training meals, right.
I know he says that distillers are grown-up
brewers.
I would add that distillers make really bad
beer in really good spirits.

David (21:22):
That's true.
We haven't mentioned that in a while on the
podcast.
That usually the distiller's beer or the
wash is is not like it.
It qualifies as beer by the technical
standards, but it's not usually that
potable uh, with a few exceptions, but
usually not something you just want to
drink out of a bottle yeah, ours would

(21:42):
definitely fall into that category.

You know we, where brewers are looking for
a very clean, crisp product that's balanced
between, you know, fermentable sugars that
turn into alcohol and non-fermentable
sugars that give the beer the body and
flavor.
And we I'm not going to tell you that we're
going for all fermentable sugars because we

(22:06):
do want some of those flavor compounds in
there as well.
But our wash is very thin compared to what
you would be drinking as a beer and it's

(22:29):
also not going to kind of turn it a little
bit sour and give it a tartness that, when
it's distilled and when it barrel ages,
will mature into all these beautiful fruity,
uh floral type esters.
So, uh, yeah.

David (22:37):
I think that's a perfect way to move into
the production I'm sorry, man, baby brain
is killing my speaking skills.
So I think that's a great way to move into
production which, as you said earlier,
started in Denver.
Now you have a larger facility in Loveland

(22:58):
that handles the bulk of what's going on,
and Denver is now more for experimental,
one-off stuff you need at the tasting room,
at the bar there, that you can't use in the
cocktails unless you've made it, which is a
whole other podcast in and of itself.
I want to put a pin in that question of

(23:20):
fermentation because I definitely want to
talk to you about it.
And just to jump back to the farmers and
the grain.
So you guys are known, I would say, for
having, as you said, a really strong
relationship with your farmers, with the
maltsters, you know Root Shoot Malting.

(23:41):
You've been featured on their website, even
as a featured partner.
So I'm curious in that particular case with
Root Shoot Malting, they were growing a
wheat strain that, as far as I could tell,
didn't have a buyer when they were growing
it, which is kind of unusual for a farmer.
They'll usually grow if you want, but
you've got to either pay for it up front as

(24:03):
a guarantee or something else has to be
worked out.
But it was an unusual situation.
But the family Jones ended up taking the
wheat and distilling it.
So is that kind of a normal representation
of your farmer-distiller relationship or
was that kind of an extreme example?

We like to say that we've shaken the hand
of every farmer that we've bought grains
from and with that we're committed to using
only Colorado grains for our.
So a little bit of a backtrack to talking
about the naked malt, one of the reasons we
hadn't jumped on it right away is because
we wanted it grown in Colorado.

(24:48):
So just getting the seeds and figuring out
the growing conditions for it in Colorado
was another part of the challenge.
But you mentioned the relationship that we
have with Rootsuit and specifically the
wheat.
So we'll talk a little bit about that, that
Oland wheat that they grew and we
definitely built our relationship,

(25:08):
definitely, if not around that.
That helped us build up our relationship
with Root Shoot.
So the wheat that they had brought in is
Oland wheat or Oolansbet, and it comes from
an Island off the coast of Scandinavia.
It also happens to be where the farmer,
todd Olander, his family, comes from.
So right, olander Oland's vet, same area,

(25:31):
same same weight.
So I think he got, you know, this idea in
his head that he just wanted to grow this
wheat and he would plant it and figure out
what to do with it.
So he got enough seed to plant 10 acres of
it and harvested that 10 acres and then
started shopping around, and our head
distiller, rob Masters, is also of

(25:53):
Scandinavian descent.

David (25:54):
He hails from the Scandinavian country of
Minnesota and was looking to do he kind of
looks like it from at the website picture,
to be honest, yeah yeah, definitely some
Viking blood in there.

Uh.
So he, uh, he was looking to do a
Scandinavian style vodka which, uh, in our
terms of Scandinavian vodka, is going to be,
uh, wheat as a predominant grain over
potatoes or grapes or grapes or anything
else like that.
So wheat vodka with Oland's Vet, grown by

(26:26):
the Olanders who brought the wheat in the
Scandinavian island of Oland.
So the wheat strain, that Oland wheat, it
was really really popular throughout Europe
up until like the 1950s.

(26:47):
It was a land race, so that means it has a
lot of different species of wheat within
one you know breed.
So to say.
So it's like if you went and they had
Honeycrisp and Red Delicious and Granny
Smith all throughout that orchard and you
just harvested all those apples and mix

(27:09):
them together, you'd have different apples
within that bunch but you'd say like, yeah,
this is the apples that we have.
It's the same with the Ulaanbaatar being a
land race but it has those mixed genetics
in it and you know the seed was all
collected and then grown, and then
collected again and grown, and so you kind

(27:29):
of get that adaptation to one place.
You know, the seeds that grow the best
there come back year after year and within
that land race you have all this different
genetic diversity which is really important
to protect because, as we live in a world

(27:51):
of changing climate, having all those genes
in the pool allow the grain to adapt more
readily to the environment.
So it's really cool that we get to work
with it and protect it.
But it was moved away from in the 50s and

(28:11):
60s because new varieties were coming out
that were all you know, all Honeycrisp or
all Golden Delicious, all you know, all
honey crisp or all golden delicious.
And uh, they had higher yields.
So you get less genetic diversity but the
higher yields from the wheat.
So that kind of took over and then the
oolong vet basically disappeared.

(28:32):
Um, until the 1990s when people kind of
found it and started growing it as part of
the slow food movement, as a way to bring
more flavor back into to the grain.
So similar we taking this older wheat
that's going to get less yield but more
flavor.
We get to benefit from that in our spirit

(28:54):
as well.
So it's not only this land race that
protects biodiversity but adds all these
interesting flavors to our vodka as well.
Biodiversity, but it adds all these
interesting flavors to our vodka as well.
We distill the vodka twice through our
column still to get it to a nice purity
where we think the vodka should be.
But the original TTB definition of vodka

(29:16):
was a flavorless, neutral spirit.
Right, they've since kind of got away from
that flavorless part of it and we
definitely think that we get some flavor of
the wheat in the vodka you know adds a nice
creaminess, a nice mouthfeel and kind of
texture to the vodka.
That is going to be very different from.

David (29:38):
You know, just kind of your off the shelf
vodka and you're only kind of off the shelf
and you're only selling it twice too.
So even if you're selling to a very high
proof point for the, shall we say,
stripping out a lot of compounds, it's not
so hyper distilled that everything is going
to be taken out yeah, a lot of the neutral

(30:00):
spirit coming from big plants is distilled
five, six times through massive columns
that are five stories tall.

I'll break it to you, our distillery is not
five stories tall.
We're going through a 20 plate column, so
we're not seeing nearly as much
rectification as these massive plants are
going to do.

David (30:17):
And yes, that is going to retain some of
the flavor for it so, before I ask the next
question I was going to ask about, uh, you
know, what other unusual grains or styles,
um, of grain that you've explored.
There's, uh, something that's coming to me
which was that, you know, rob back, uh,
this was an interview from 2019, so it's
five years old at this point, but he was

(30:39):
talking about attracting new fans, new
patrons, to the distillery, to the tasting
house, and that he said that trying to
educate the consumer is a terrible business
plan.
Now, a lot has changed since then.
People become a lot more interested in the
spirits that they're drinking, where the
grains come from, where the spirits come
from barrels, even lot more interested in

(30:59):
the spirits that they're drinking, where
the grains come from, where the spirits
come from barrels, even.
But there is certainly, I think, still an
element, a large element of consumers who
would, let's say, go and buy a bottle of
your vodka and I guess, to put it bluntly,
not necessarily care about that.

(31:21):
It's this strain from Scandinavia, that it
was grown by this one farmer and all of
this.
So, in your kind of day-to-day work, but
also in the marketing side, how do you
balance this idea of having so much
information at your fingertips and so much
to me.
Fun information at that, with the idea that
not every consumer is going to be receptive

(31:42):
to having all that information at that,
with the idea that not every consumer is
going to be receptive to having all that
information thrown at them.

Yeah, it's definitely a challenge, but I
think the best thing you can do is make a
really good product right.
So, if you have a really good product that
someone you're able to give a sample of and
they say, wow, that's really good, tell me
about it, and then it opens you up to all
the other conversations.
So, um, I don't know that there is a silver

(32:08):
bullet in a way to to get to everybody, but,
um, I think genuine having a genuine story,
uh, having a good product and and doing
what you can to to share that with people,
is all you can do.

David (32:24):
All right.
So with that, I will ask the next question,
which was you know other?
Well, you know, I'm going to rephrase it.
Actually, instead of asking unusual grains
or styles, I'll put it this way so you've
planted the flag that you're only going to
use Colorado grain, and so that doesn't

(32:47):
necessarily mean that you use your
exclusively using heritage varietals or
these or the naked mall, you know these,
these kind of esoteric strains.
You could be using yellow dent corn from
Colorado, which is perfectly fine.
So how would you say you balance, or what
is the balance, between the less known
varieties that you're using and the more

(33:09):
well-known ones?

I think all of our grain choices kind of
come back to flavor.
Let me think about this.
I think I have the answer, I just have to
come up a bit.
Can you ask that question again, maybe
slightly rephrased?
Sure, sure rephrased Sure.

David (33:44):
So the original question I was going to ask
was that you know what other unusual grain
styles or unusual grains period have you
explored in making whiskey and spirits as a
whole?
Rather than asking it that way, I'm curious.
Behind the flag of using Colorado grain
only, is there a focus on, let's say,

(34:07):
heritage varietals, less used varietals of
grain, or is it a balance between getting
some grain for yield, some grain for flavor?

Yeah.
So I would say it all goes back to the
relationships we have with our farmers and
it's a two-way street.
We work with another farmer down in the San
Luis Valley Sorry, the San Luis Valley and
they are own family Farm and there is no
relation except we're really close friends.

(34:43):
So the Jones Family Organic Farm is a third
generation, fourth generation.
They've been down there for a long time in
the San Luis Valley and the main crop down
there is potatoes.
So they have grown rye down the San Luis
Valley for a long, long time, but only as a
cover crop for potatoes.
So they would grow the rye as a cover crop.

(35:07):
It would turn green, it would come out of
the ground, it'd get pretty big, it'd start
to form seeds and then they'd plow it into
the ground to prep the soil for potatoes.
And our conversation with them was please
stop doing that, let the rye grow all the
way, we'll harvest it and turn it into
beautiful, beautiful whiskey.
So through that partnership we've grown the

(35:30):
relationship to a point where they think
that the rye grown down in the San Luis
Valley can be a big part of their strategy
to reduce water use, be a big part of their
strategy to reduce water use.
So by growing the rye as a cover crop,
harvesting it, selling it as a cash crop to
distillers, brewers, whoever will take it,
they're able to get a crop out of their

(35:53):
land that doesn't take up as much water as
a potato will and also adds organic
material to the soil which helps to build
up the soil's capacity to hold water and
retain water.
So they are working on a project to try to

(36:13):
get more rye grown down in the San Luis
Valley for that practical reason, for the
water saving that it can have, which
affects more than just the region.
It affects the whole Southwest United
States as drought and all that stuff is
becoming a bigger issue.
But with them the conversation goes past.

(36:36):
We'll take any rye you can grow to well,
what kind of rye varieties do you want us
to grow for you?
What kind of ryes produce the most flavor?
So varieties we've sourced from them are
Ryman rye and Renzo Bruzi rye.
And a little bit of a tie back to the
Michigan State connection, michigan State

(36:56):
University did a project that they looked
at different rye varietals and the
different level of protein that was in
those rye varietals and how that relates to
flavor in whiskey.
So from growing the rye in a couple
different fields to harvesting it, to
distilling it, and they can correlate kind

(37:17):
of the yields of the rye, the amount of
protein out of the rye and then the flavors
in the whiskey and what you end up seeing
is kind of a direct correlation between the
amount of protein that is in the rye
variety and the amount of flavor that is in
the whiskey.

(37:38):
So protein in the rye gets converted by
enzymes, volatile phenols, and those can
give you kind of the clove spicy note that
is typical with rye whiskeys.
So the varieties that the Jones family is
growing for us Renz and Ryman, both on that

(38:01):
list are varieties that are high protein,
high flavorful varieties of rye.
Again, you will see a relationship between
the amount of protein and then the amount
of spirit yield that you get from that rye.
So there's a trade-off right.
Any protein that's in the rye is there at
the expense of starch to some extent.
So starch becomes ethanol, becomes your

(38:24):
yield and protein becomes your flavor.
So we're trading off some yield for some
flavor and that's kind of our goal as
distillers is to make the best flavorful
product we can.
Distillers is to make the best flavorful

(38:44):
product you can and something that kind of
shows off the, the special climate we live
here in Colorado and kind of heirloom
varieties.
We're able to kind of accomplish all of
those things.

David (38:56):
Gotcha.
So, with the brains in hand, we then move
on to fermentation, and this was again
another interview that Rob had done with
Denverorg where, in setting up the Family
Jones, the founders were very particular in

(39:18):
that they wanted to start using 53 gallon
barrels right away.
They they didn't want to mess with the
barrels, they didn't want to mess with time.
You know no hyper aging tools or anything
like that, but that fermentation, from the
beginning, was something that they were
going to play around with.
The Rob in particular, was interested in.

(39:39):
I'm not, I should have asked before.
I'm not sure when you joined the Family
Jones, but I'm curious to hear if you know.
Why was that the fermentation?
Why was that the point on which Family
Jones decided to hang their differentiating
hat?

Yeah, so both questions.
I joined the family Jones in 2018.
So a little a little over a year after they
started started producing.
But the fermentation is really where a lot
of your flavor is developed.
So what we've done typically is stainless

(40:20):
steel fermentation in Loveland to
completion, so typically five to seven days
on a fermentation.
That happens in Loveland, in stainless
steel.
But we're not going to be cleaning our
stainless steel vessels as we were brewing
or making wine or cider where you're trying
to get rid of all the microbes.

(40:41):
If you're brewing or making wine or cider
where you're trying to get rid of all the
microbes, so we'll get and we'll also leave
those firms somewhat open to air so you
kind of get in the natural bacteria
fermentation.
In Denver we've had wooden food or
fermenters and also open-top fermenters
there, but in the wooden fermenters and
also open top fermenters there, but in the

(41:02):
wooden fermenters, you definitely develop a
house culture of yeast and bacteria that
kind of never get cleaned out of the wood.
So you think of the difference between a
stainless steel fermenter that is uh, you
know, smooth all around on the inside and a
wooden fermenter that has all these little
nooks and crannies.
A wooden fermenter that has all these
little nooks and crannies and yeast and
bacteria will colonize those nooks and

(41:23):
crannies and live there between
fermentations.
So in the wooden fermenters we'll let those
fermentations go typically seven to 10 days
long enough so that after the primary
fermentation is complete, full secondary
fermentation that will develop all these

(41:45):
nice organic acids.
That again, all the organic acids when they
combine with esters in a barrel do the
esterification process and that's going to
bring all your kind of fruity floral notes.
They can kind of give you some solventy
notes too, um, solventy, you know, sharpie

(42:07):
marker type notes, um, which in in some
whiskeys is really nice, like to me a, an
eagle, rare, has this really.
You know, note to it.
That's kind of a brand, brand staple that
they built their brand off of.

(42:32):
We kind of strive more for a balance.
So Denver has produced in different years.
Between 10 and 30% of our whiskey
production happens in Denver.
So having those kind of longer fermented
barrels that get a little funkier, they're
going to age differently than the stuff
that was.
And then when we go into the blending
process it's another, another color on our

(42:52):
palate that we can, we can paint the
picture with to to blend and make a
beautiful whiskey so that all ties back to
to the fermentation.
You know, setting up some different
fermentations, setting up some different
options, um, so that as distillers, when we
go to the blending process, we have more
tools to play with and and more stuff to

(43:13):
make an interesting whiskey.

David (43:14):
I mean it's.
To me it almost sounds like and and again.
This is just a let's go, let's say an
educated consumer as opposed to a someone
who's been in brewing and distilling.
It sounds almost like the stainless steel
fermenters.
While they're stainless steel, they're in
some ways mimicking the wood fermenters and

(43:35):
that you're not washing out and sterilizing
like you'd have to do if you were just
making beer, sterilizing like you'd have to
do if you were just making beer.
So you are letting some kind of I don't
want to call it back set, because that's
not really what it is, but you're, you're
allowing some kind of a house culture to
take place and assuming that's controlled
and doesn't get, you know, inoculated with
something that it shouldn't be, then it can

(43:55):
act in a way kind of like a wooden
fermenter for sure.

I think it's.
I think it's a little bit to different
degrees.
You know, it's definitely like the wooden
fermenters.
You're creating a sourdough culture, right,
you have all these other yeast and bacteria
that are definitely there, colonizing,
always, living there, and you think of like
sourdough flavor versus a yeast bread
flavor.

(44:22):
I would say Loveland is somewhere in
between.
Right, we're not sterile, we're not a yeast
spread and we're not quite a sourdough like
Denver, as we're kind of a half and half,
if you will.

David (44:28):
Gotcha.
So I mean again, fermentation is a huge
part of what differentiates Family Jones,
both in production but also in the flavor.
Then you get a lot more of, as you would
describe it, not only the fruity esters
that can be generated at the end of a
fermentation, of a full to the end
fermentation with yeast and such, but you

(44:48):
can also get some of the heavier flavors
you were mentioning earlier, some of the
phenolic compounds in there and the
mouthfeel as well that you'll get when
you're running a seven day fermentation,
seven to 10 day on this, and the malolactic
being part of that.
So my next question just went right out of

(45:11):
my head.
Sorry, give me a second.
So for someone who is, let's say, new to
the family Jones and is interested in the
process and knows that fermentation is such
a differentiator and that you've put in
this kind of effort to retain the grain

(45:33):
flavor, to retain the ester formations that
are happening, how would you you, what
would you say, is kind of the the mark, if
there is one of the family jones spirits,

(45:54):
let's say flavor wise, for example?

yeah, I think our spirits, I think in
everything we we do, we try to create
balance, um, so we're not going for one
thing that's kind of, uh, very spiky or
peaky in terms of flavors.
You know we're not going for a big hit of
esters and no, uh, vanilla or oak or
anything like that.
We're not trying to make a spiky whiskey,

(46:17):
we're trying to make a smooth whiskey, if
you kind of think of the graph of different
flavors as they come off.
So a lot of that comes into our process and
fermentation and blending as part of that
as well.
But I think when we start a fermentation,
when we look at different whiskeys that
we're making, we kind of think of the whole

(46:38):
process and where we want to go.
You mentioned, like, we're only using 53
gallon barrels, we're only releasing
straight whiskeys.
So we're going to age for a minimum of two
years on all our products.
Our adacus and Ella that are in the market
now are averaging around four years old.
So they're typically blends of three, four
and five year old barrels of whiskey.

(47:01):
So that's all in mind when we're going
through the fermentation process.
Uh, if we wanted to do a small barrel, uh,
short age whiskey, that's.
There's nothing wrong with that?
It's just kind of a different mindset and
we would make different choices.
Um, so, to get back to your question is

(47:21):
like what?
What do I think our our whiskeys flavor
wise, I think.
I think we do get balanced, but you also
kind of get the whole terroir, a word of
Colorado in our spirits, and by that I mean,
you know, in a dry, high altitude climate

(47:45):
we're going to get a lot of evaporation,
we're using grains that were grown here in
Colorado and all that leaves a mark on our
whiskeys.
So I don't think our bourbon tastes like a
Kentucky bourbon.
I think it tastes like a Colorado bourbon,
got kind of a drier, crisper finish to it.
Rye is a secondary grain in our bourbon

(48:06):
over wheat.
So the rye, you're getting a nice spice to
the bourbon and that's a choice that we've
made too, to go with a rye bourbon over a
wheat bourbon.
I think as distillers that's just kind of
what we prefer, and I also think our rye
whiskey especially really shows off

(48:26):
everything we do really well.
I love our bourbon, but our rye is
definitely one of my favorite projects to
both make and enjoy.
My wife and I are definitely big Manhattan
people and we just love the Family Jones
Atticus Jones rye in the Manhattan.
It's spicy, it's got cherry kind of baked

(48:48):
pie notes in the background and it's yeah,
I think.
I think again it's just a balanced lovely
that's perfect for sipping or integrating
into a cocktail.

David (49:01):
And we should mention too I mean, we'll get
to the still setup in just a second, but
we're focusing on the whiskeys so far in
this conversation but you guys also produce.
As we said earlier, you have to produce
everything on site if you want to use it in
your cocktail bar, the Amaros, really

(49:25):
everything liqueurs, anything like that.
So this idea of the terroir of Colorado and
the terroir of Denver and of Loveland is
not just in the whiskeys, but also in the
Mo Jones rum, as well as all the other
things that you are creating for the

(49:45):
on-premise location.

Definitely and I think I think the bar and
the spirit house and the modifier program
that to run the spirit house really just
ties the company together and really shows
off like the hospitality and the family
that we are.
You know, the family Jones.
There are no Joneses in the family.
We say that there's the family you're born

(50:10):
into and the family you choose and we hope
everyone chooses the family Jones.
So for everyone out there listening to the
podcast, welcome to the family.
You know we're sorry but you're part of the
family now and at the Spirit House we
wanted to be able to bring in everybody.
You know, not everybody's a whiskey drinker
not everybody's a drink drinker, not
everybody's a vodka drinker.

(50:31):
We wanted to have an experience that could
bring everybody together and everyone could
find something that they liked and they
enjoyed.
And just the way that the laws are in
Colorado we're only allowed to serve
spirits and spirits that we make at the
tasting room, so we can't bring in any of
the you know, sweet vermouth or Amaro's,

(50:54):
campari type spirits that we want to be
able to have, the cocktail program that we
want to have.
So it's a blessing and a curse.
It's a lot of work.
You know, developing and maintaining all
these small batch products is definitely a
lot of work.
But from that has there's been a lot of

(51:16):
collaboration between the bar staff and bar
managers and the distillers and saying this
is what we want.
We want to, you know, an absence to the
Sazerac of the bar and playing around and
collaborating with each other.
And then there's been stuff that we've been
able to take from the bartenders to scale

(51:37):
up.
So the bartenders were taking our rye
whiskey and doing a rock and rye where they
were macerating a bunch of different
botanicals in the rye and adding sugar and
serving it as a rock and rye where they
were macerating a bunch of different
botanicals in the rye and adding sugar and
serving it as a rock and rye cocktail.
So Nick Touch was one of our original bar
managers and got the bar all set up at the

(51:57):
Family Jones and then moved on to kind of
owning the whole state in terms of
on-premise sales for the family Jones and
has since moved back to one of the spirits
he loves in tequila and you know he's
definitely still part of the family but he
brought this rock and rye recipe with him
that was loved in the tasting room and from

(52:20):
there we were able to say you know what,
like, we can do that at scale.
We're a distiller, we have the equipment to
do that.
Let's bottle it and sell it as a bottled
cocktail.
And from there it did well for us.

(52:43):
And then something happened in 2020 that we
definitely had to pivot our business plan
and as we were working in the distillery,
we said what do people want?
How is this going to change how people are
drinking?
And we said people are still going to want

(53:04):
to drink.
They're still going to want to drink good
cocktails, but they're just not going to be
coming to our bar to do it.
So in 2020, we expanded the cocktail line
and we introduced a Cosmo and a smoked Old
Fashioned to the offerings that we have for
ready to drink cocktails, ready to drink

(53:27):
cocktails and to that again, as we've
continued to evolve.
Last summer we released a Negroni as part
of the the family of ready to drink
cocktails.
So it's um, it's a fun collaborative
process.
It's been a um.
It's fun as a distiller to to get to play
around with other flavors other than the
grains and the malt and the fermentation.
You know, getting to blend and make

(53:49):
cocktails ready to drink and solve those
challenges is definitely really interesting
and stay tuned later this year where we're
thinking about adding another cocktail to
our lineup.

David (54:04):
Awesome, looking forward to it.
So, just to round out the production
process and this applies to many, if not
all, of the spirits and products that are
coming out.
So water is, as it is everywhere, crucial
ingredient in the spirits making process,
but also a crucial tool in the overall

(54:27):
production process, you know from.
So there's water that you will taste and
put into the product, but there's also
water that's being used for cooling, for
any number of functions within the
distillery and plant.
As I understand you're using it's Colorado
glacier water.

It's coming right off mountain runoff.

David (54:50):
Mountain runoff.
So I think first question is are you using
the same water, same mountain runoff, for
both the proofing process as well as the
cooling and functional processes?

process as well as the cooling and
functional processes For proofing.
We're actually using Eldorado spring water,
so a local spring.
We get water from them for it's a nice,
soft water that starts its life as mountain
runoff and kind of percolates through the
ground and comes back up, filtered through
minerals, to just be a really, really nice

(55:31):
water for blending with, for processed
water.
We're definitely conscious of the water use.
We're on the eastern side of the
Continental Divide but a lot of the water
that comes to the front range of Colorado
is diverted from the Colorado River.
A lot of the streams that would feed into

(55:51):
the Colorado River are collected into
reservoirs and diverted into the front
range.
So we are very aware that water in our
region is scarce and especially, especially
this time here in the summer.
Uh, you start to feel in colorado as dry as
it is, as hot it is.
Just start start definitely starts to feel

(56:14):
parched.
Um.
So we're conscious of our water usage for
the production side of things and we try to
reuse water wherever we can.
So the cooling water that we use to cool
our still will be collected and part of
that will be used as hot water for the next
mash the next day.

(56:36):
We're not perfect.
We use cooling water to go along the
process that we try to do everything that
we can to limit our resource use.

David (56:51):
I mean it makes sense and with the El
Dorado spring water that's being used, I
have to ask and this will upset people in
many different states, but I have to ask
can Colorado water from the El Dorado
spring stand up to the mythos of the
Kentucky limestone?

You know the the limestone we'll go back
scientific on this the limestone root.
What it really adds is yeast nutrients,
right Fermentation process.
So I think if you were to really really

(57:30):
drill down and ask some big people what
they're using for proofing water, I think
they're going to tell you RO water and not
limestone water.
So the limestone water, if it's a hard
water, you know it 'll cause different
things in the whiskey to precipitate out.
But I am fascinated with, historically,

(57:52):
areas that have breweries or distilleries,
and the styles of spirits or beer that they
produce are definitely tied to the water
that they have.
And if you look at Colorado in that regard,
you know we have a very large, well-known
brewer here in the state, so that tells you
that our water is pretty good, true.

David (58:14):
So the product is let's try that again.
So the product is made, you've got.
Let's speak specifically about the whiskeys
at the moment.
One of the things that really struck me
when I received the bottles in the mail was

(58:34):
the bottle design, and particularly the
obviously the naming conventions, but also
the artwork on the bottle.

And I'd love to just talk about that a
little bit.
Yeah, so all of our bottles have hands on
them and we like to say if there's hands on
the bottle, it's handmade in Colorado.
It's kind of our way of saying handmade
without saying handmade, if you will, and
the artist for the hands is Jack Ludlow and
his studio in Denver is right across the

(59:06):
street from our distillery.
So it's great to have good neighbors and
we're very lucky in that regard.
We try to show kind of the hands
representing stuff that we kind of feel
loosely ties in with our spirit.
So you know, our vodka is carving an ice
cube because it's a pure, you know very

(59:29):
pure spirit, we think.
And the gin's got botanicals.
The Ella was kind of the first, you know
one of the first products we worked on
developing, and it's got a match straight,
you know.
So it's kind of like starting the fire but
also, uh, that char, that barrel process,

(59:50):
that that the flame uh has in in regards to
distilling or the heating of of spirit to
distill it.
And then the atticus jones whiskey has a
stopwatch in the hand.
Um, you know, time is the other ingredient
in our spirit that we haven't really talked
too much about, but just using the artwork

(01:00:11):
to express things without using words is
kind of, I think, what we were going for.

David (01:00:17):
And then with the names of the Ella Jones
for the bourbon, for example, Atticus Jones
for the rye.
How do you go about choosing what name to
assign to which whiskey or spirit?

Jamie Burns (01:00:29):
I think we just tried to find how we felt
personified, our spirit, and kind of let
people come up with that.
What that means to them, it's introducing
you to a different family member.
So everyone's part of the Jones family and
everyone has their own character.

David (01:00:48):
To me, I think as a consumer I was unable
to separate my initial thoughts.
At the Ella Jones I immediately thought
Ella Fitzgerald, that could totally just be
me.
But I was thinking this kind of slightly
jazzy, sultry focus to the bourbon and it

(01:01:11):
was funny that it informed some of my notes
and I realized that afterwards and retasted
blind just to not have that influence in
there.
But at the same time it can be
representative and Atticus, being a name I
think forever connected to To Kill a
Mockingbird, and so you think of this as
this very, I guess, serious but justified

(01:01:35):
lot of how do I put this?
Quiet in a sense, but with a lot within, so
kind of a quiet one you got to watch that
has a lot of strength within it.
These are just my notes, my interpretations
of the names.
It could be way off, but those are things

(01:01:56):
that came to me as I was looking at them.

Definitely.
I love to hear that.
How'd you think we did Name your Spirit?

David (01:02:02):
I thought it was great.
Like I said it fit right away.
The Atticus.
I tried blind right away because I realized
I had not done that with the Ella, so I
didn't have quite the same let's say
influence, self-influence there.
But no, I thought they were right on.

Yeah, it's so cool to hear how other people
interact with, with our spirits, and that's
what we're really trying to do, you know.
We're trying to make something that we're
proud of and share it with people and let
them enjoy it how they want to enjoy it.

David (01:02:41):
And with that I'm moving on to the.
You know the last segment, which is talking
about not only the growth the current and
future growth of the Family Jones, but what
else is coming next.
So this is a question that I've been asking
some of the smaller producers that I've
been talking to, some like you who have

(01:03:02):
just great stories but may not be as widely
known as some others.
Let's say for no negative reason, just that
things are what they are.
So having a sales team, marketing team,
these are huge investments for any
distillery, large or small.
And you have, as of last count, I think

(01:03:22):
there were three people just for Colorado
Do a lot of farmer's markets, have a
tasting house in Lohi in Denver, so plenty
of foot traffic.
But as I was doing the research, one of the
things that came up, in my mind at least,
was that there hadn't been a ton of either
podcasts done or interviews out there about

(01:03:42):
the dist than especially other than local
news outlets.
Now, you're not that old, it's you know,
opened in 2017, six, seven years old at
this point, so plenty of room to still grow.

(01:04:02):
I think my question is were you kind of
planning at first to have less of a media
footprint while you grew and do more
organic word of mouth and foot traffic
COVID aside, and then, kind of getting to
this point, start growing outside the area?
Or is there an interest in really owning

(01:04:24):
your backyard outside the area, or is there
an interest in really owning your backyard.

Yeah, I think spirits is really a
relationship business.
We love tasting people on our product.
You know we say liquor lips, those bottles.
So it's really about getting people to try
and fall in love with our product and for
us, the focus has really been to do that

(01:04:50):
and slowly expand and test our feet in the
water.
So last year we moved into some neighboring
states, so you can find us now in Oklahoma
and Nebraska as well, and we're starting to
grow in that.
Just this month we will be starting online

(01:05:12):
distribution.
So we will.
People will be able to go to our website
and throughout most of the United States.
It's cut off in a couple of states, but
most people in the United States will be
able to buy a bottle of our spirit online
and people in the United States will be
able to buy a bottle of our spirit online
and have it shipped right to their house.
Um, but yeah, I think it's.
It's a lot of work to grow a brand and we

(01:05:33):
really focused on uh, the relationships and
doing it.
What we think is the right way of owning
our backyard and kind of going deep instead
of wide, and and you can find us throughout
most of the state of Colorado, definitely
definitely big in Denver and that's just
kind of where we've.
We've put our eggs in that basket.

David (01:05:56):
Nothing wrong with that.
Like I said, each brand kind of approaches
that a little differently.
As you said, some go wide, some go deep,
some prefer to own their backyard and kind
of just stay in one or one state or just
the neighboring states, and some will grow
exponentially.
You know, it's totally up to you what they
want to do and looking forward as well the

(01:06:20):
growth when you moved from Denver or rather
I shouldn't say moved when you added the
Loveland location to your Denver facility
what kind of output should we be expecting
from Family Jones?

You know we try to make the best product we
can as time allows.
So every year our goal is to release a
little bit more at a little bit older age
for our whiskeys.
We've got a great team in place to handle
the demand and the production side and it's
just about building a business to support

(01:07:01):
what we can do.
I don't think that we have any super new
exciting products on the whiskey front, but
we kind of release our batches yearly.
So every year we're putting out the best
whiskey we think we can and making enough
to hopefully last a year, and then we'll

(01:07:23):
release the next batch.
So every year we hope that the whiskey we
have on the market just gets just a little
bit better.

David (01:07:32):
And to that point I just want to say that
the Atticus Jones Batch 5, which I believe
was the one that I had, was four and a half
years on average.
So it's considering how long you've been in
business and producing.
I mean, that's some of the earliest rye
that you would have distilled in there and

(01:07:53):
that's again that's on average.
There was probably some older stuff in
there as well.
So I can see, as you alluded to earlier,
that time is very much a function and an
important one.
You're not just making straight whiskeys,
you're making stuff.
That's at least I believe.
Minimum age is three years old for the
whiskeys.
So you're giving enough age in there to

(01:08:14):
really see what they can do, see what they
can do, especially with all the esters that
you're creating in the fermentation process.

Yeah, definitely.
And kind of going back to the age thing,
you know, we're we're not Kentucky, we're
not Scotland, I don't know that a 20 year
old Colorado whiskey is going to be that
great.
Uh, we're such a dry climate, right, and
it's all about kind of finding when the
barrel is right.
So for us, like our rye whiskey, around

(01:08:45):
three years old turns a corner where, uh,
it's, it starts to come into its own.
You know, and we're starting to see that
with, um, five, six-year-old barrels, where
they are also developing their, their own
flavors and stuff.
But you know, some of our three-year-old
barrels are holding their own against the
oldest stuff in the world and I think

(01:09:06):
that's part of its growth in our production
process.
But also, too, it's just each barrel.
The physical wood of the barrel is its own
unique agricultural product 30 staves in a
barrel.
Each of them could come from different
trees from the same tree, and just the life
that that barrel has had is unique.

(01:09:27):
So we'll put whiskey from the same
distillation run into two different barrels
and the barrels will turn out completely
different.
So, um, you know where it's at in the
warehouse, what those past three years
weather-wise have been like it all.
It all plays a role, its fingerprint on the
process, and I think our job as distillers

(01:09:47):
and as blenders is just to uh have the
patience and to uh to never give up on a
barrel and then to kind of find when we,
when we think it's ready.
So it's not about releasing the oldest
whiskey we can, it's about releasing the
best and and you know, a three-year-old

(01:10:08):
whiskey, especially for our rye.
Some of those barrels are some of our
favorites when we're chasing through them.
So, ages and everything, time is important,
but it's all about letting the whiskey tell
you when it's ready, letting the whiskey,
tell you when it's ready.

David (01:10:25):
Fantastic, I think that's a perfect way to
wrap up.
So, jamie, thank you again for coming on to
talk about the Family Jones.
It's a distillery out of Colorado and, as I
said, you'll be able to as of this month,
so we're recording in July.
So by the time this comes out, you should

(01:10:45):
be able to order to.
Many states in the country are always those
eight or nine that are always a problem,
but if you're in the other states you
should be able to find it.
You can also visit the familyjonesco notcom.
That's a different website, so
familyjonesco and there will be links to
the website and social media in the show
notes, as always.
So with that, jamie, hang on with me for

(01:11:07):
just a sec after we finish recording.
And it's been another episode of the
Whiskey Ring Podcast.
Thank you all for listening, like,
subscribe, share wherever you can,
appreciate you all and see you all next
week.

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