Ninja Coach: Bridging Theology and Everyday Life

The concluding episode of our "Whole Church Job Fair" series presents a compelling dialogue between Joshua Noel and Brandon Knight, who serves as a "Ninja Coach" at the YMCA. The primary focus of this discussion is to explore the relevance of theological topics typically debated within ecclesiastical and academic circles to the everyday experiences of individuals engaged in non-vocational ministry roles. Throughout their conversation, Knight reflects on his journey from seminary to his current profession, evaluating whether the theological education he received holds any significance in his daily life. This episode not only encapsulates insights from Knight’s unique vocation but also underscores the broader theme of how diverse occupations can intersect with spiritual and theological principles. As we conclude this series, we invite listeners to anticipate an encore episode next week, followed by a Round Table discussion in three weeks, featuring various pastors and professors who will reflect on the insights shared throughout this series.

The concluding episode of our 'Whole Church Job Fair' series features an engaging dialogue between Joshua Noel and Brandon Knight, who delves into his unique role as a 'Ninja Coach' at the YMCA. This enlightening conversation explores the intersection of vocational ministry and secular employment, specifically examining whether the theological discussions prevalent in seminaries hold any significance in everyday work environments. Brandon's journey from seminary to becoming a Ninja Coach illustrates the diverse paths individuals take and challenges the notion that ministry is confined solely to the pulpit. Through their discourse, they highlight the importance of viewing all professions as avenues for ministry, fostering a sense of unity among those in various occupations. Joshua and Brandon also confront the technical difficulties encountered during recording, adding a layer of authenticity to the episode, while the overarching theme emphasizes how individuals can embody their faith in every aspect of their lives, including their day jobs.

Takeaways:

• In this final episode of the Whole Church Job Fair series, we explore the relevance of theological discussions in everyday occupations.
• Brandon Knight, a Ninja Coach, shares insights on how his seminary education shapes his current work and interactions with children.
• The episode emphasizes the importance of seeing all forms of work as ministry, regardless of the field or job title.
• Through the lens of Ninja Zone, we learn how teaching physical skills can also promote social justice and community engagement.
• Brandon argues for the necessity of ethical training in pastoral education to ensure accountability and integrity within ministry.
• The discussion reveals the disconnect between theological education and practical application in various societal roles, advocating for a holistic view of ministry.

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• Ninja Zone
• YMCA
• Anazao
• My Seminary Life
• Kung Fu Pizza Party

.

Check out all of the other shows in the Anazao Podcast Network:

https://anazao-ministries.captivate.fm

.

Don't miss any of the episodes we've done in our "Whole Church Job Fair" series so far:

https://player.captivate.fm/collection/660c787f-d176-4587-b3b1-1e8fce4df217

.

Check out My Seminary Life & Kung Fu Pizza Party with Brandon Knight:

1. https://my-seminary-life.captivate.fm/listen

Episode Transcript

(00:21):
In this episode, Brandon and Ihad some technical difficulties we
had to work through.
There was actually a glitch onthe software we were recording with
where there was actually adelay on my end.
It's nothing too bad, but itis noticeable in the episode sometimes
where one of us might justreact a little later or reacting
to something out of order.

(00:41):
That's just all that's about.
But really great episodetalking with Brandonite about being
a ninja coach.
So I think it's worth your time.
So stick around and just beaware if some reactions happen out
of order.
That's why Hope you enjoy the show.
Serving you remind us of ourSavior's bowl and tow Teacher, you

(01:09):
are raising up a child to bekind lawyer.
Give us hope that justice oneday will surround us.
May God's kingdom come on earth.
His will be done.

(01:30):
Ephesians 4, verses 2529 inthe Christian Standard Bible Therefore,
putting away lying, speak thetruth, each one to his neighbor,
because we are members of one another.
Be angry and do not sin.
Don't let the sun go down onyour anger and don't give the devil
an opportunity.
Let the thief no longer steal.
Instead he has to do honestwork with his own hands so that he
has something to share withanyone in need.

(01:51):
No foul language should comefrom your mouth, but only what is
good for building up someonein need so that it gives grace to
those who hear.
In the book of Ephesians, St.
Paul is explaining what itmeans to be the church before this
pericope.
Paul writes that the church isto work together in all our different
roles or, you know, things here.

(02:12):
St.
Paul insists that the churchbuilds one another up in word, in
deeds, and he even ties ouroccupational work to this idea of
building each other up.
Brandon Knight how do youthink the way that we present ourselves
and work can tie into thisidea of building one another up?
Well, when it comes to ourdifferent occupations, our different

(02:33):
jobs, you know, we use ourgifts, our talents or whatever that
is to the glory of God.
And that includes people whoaren't in vocational ministry.
You know, everyone has anoccupation, everyone has a job.
And so we, as we are providinggood customer service, as we are

(02:55):
protecting our communities, aswe are teaching specific skills to
students and individuals, weare building people up.
As we are doing this to theglory of God and with a heart of
I care about you and thereforeI am going to do my job.
Well, we are building people up.

(03:16):
It may not look, you know,when you hear that building each
other up, I think weimmediately Jump to some form of,
like, sanctification.
Like, oh, we're being a partof the growth of an individual spiritually.
But, you know, this can look broader.
This can look like, you know,making communities safe.
That's a big deal.

(03:37):
That's caring about your neighbor.
You know, even passing alongskills, trades, and all that kind
of stuff is.
It's all still in this realmof doing good by others through our
vocation.
Yeah, I know.
That's good.
I like that.
Lord, be close to us.

(04:00):
Lord, have mercy on us.
Lord, please put your hands onus day by day.

(04:23):
Hey, guys, welcome back to theWhole Church Job fair part of the
Whole Church podcast.
And like any good seasonfinale, we're filled with technical
difficulties and glitches throughout.
That's what everybody wants.
Like, you waited for thesuspenseful end, and then there's
a glitch, and it just ends.
I should.
I should just end therecording right here.
That'd be great.

(04:44):
I am your host, Joshua Dole,here with, I don't know, one of my
favorite returned guests, oneof my favorite podcasters.
You know, I've always loved myseminary life.
And then you started doingKung Fu Pizza Party, and I'm like,
maybe if I just had, like, apodcast from Brandon a day, you know,
like.
Like an apple a day for thedoctor away.

(05:05):
But, like, maybe a Brandon aDay keeps, I don't know, depression
away or something.
The one and only Brandon Knight.
That's so good to have youback, man.
I mean, maybe it doesn't help you.
It just helps others.
You still have to go throughthe like, because you can't have
your own.

(05:26):
You are Brandon.
Yeah, I am.
This cause of my depression.
It's just what it comes down to.
But I'm glad it came out.
Well, it heals us all the blues.
Away for other people.
You heal us all, but also,you're your own.
I am my own worst enemy.
Whatever that song was.
Hi, Vulture.

(05:46):
It's good to see you all.
And this is the finale.
You saved this, thisconversation for the finale?
Yeah.
The most relevant job.
All right.
The most relevant job for the finale.
You guys have been like, man,we don't care about these other ones.
The only icon on the logo forthe series that relates to me is
that little ninja.

(06:07):
What's he about?
That's me.
And all you listeners who arelike, I'm the ninja.
Well, here's the man thatrelates to you.
The one and only ninja coach,Brandon Knight.
Which is great, because now Ican call you, like, your sensei,
your Teacher, your pastor,your coach.
I just click somethingdifferent each time I refer to you

(06:28):
in this episode.
I think I remember one time,couple months ago, you reached out
to me, you were like, hey,man, you know, you just did a guest
appearance on another show andthey kept calling you Pastor Brandon
the whole time.
And I don't usually do that.
And I just want to know, like,is that what you want to be called?

(06:48):
And I remember responding toyou by saying, for 20 bucks, you
can call me whatever you want.
So in this episode, just gofor it, Josh.
Just whatever name you got ona go with.
But yes, my.
My actual career title isNinja Coach.
Yeah.
And in your prettiness, his$20 is in the mail.

(07:09):
It's fine.
Your prettiness, Brandon is here.
Princess Knight is going totell us all about what it's like
to work for the why be a NinjaCoach dealing with kids?
And part of why Brandon ispart of the finale is he also, he
went through seminary.
He kind of learned about beinga pastor.
He kind of does this pulpitsupply ministry we've talked about
before.
He goes to different churches.

(07:30):
He fills in there.
Brandon's a little bit of anall right.
Like, he works in the real world.
He works in pastors.
He's seen different churchesfrom the inside and outside.
And so he's got the ultimate authority.
When we ask him what'srelevant, he knows.
He knows.
Yeah.
Oh, I am excited for that part.

(07:50):
All right, so before we get toDragon Slayer, Brandon Story, we
are.
I do have to go through TJ's parts.
Make sure you check out therest of the Anazao podcast network.
There's shows like My SeminaryLife and Kung Fu Pizza Party on there.
You should check those out.
Let's see.
I really am just likescrolling through and reading and
I'm sorry, listeners, I don'tknow how to do TJ's parts.

(08:13):
There are paid subscriptions.
That's in bold for some reason.
Uncaptivate Apple Podcasts andPatreon for extra content where you
can support all of our ministries.
Apple Podcasts, you can justactually subscribe to the Onazel
Network and get a bunch ofdifferent bonus from different shows.
And that's probably the mostcost effective way to do it, honestly,
is Apple Podcasts.

(08:33):
But if you want to support usindividually, it's easier to do that
on Patreon, I think.
Okay.
And now Brandon, you know,because I fit so serious so far that,
yeah, yeah, I'm running out oftitles already.
We always start our show offwith some Silliness.
It's a holy sacrament here.

(08:56):
And.
And this time, our good friendSamantha Perez.
You know, on our Facebookgroup, we were like, hey, guys, what
are the biggest theologicalquestions that are argued about in
our churches and seminaries?
And Samantha Perez goes, wait,is a hot dog a sandwich?
And then that got a ton ofvotes for some reason.
So now that just had to beincorporated somewhere in the series.

(09:16):
So it's our silly question for this.
I need to know Captain Brandon Knight.
Is a hot dog a sandwich?
That's Mr.
Doctor Professor Brandon to you.
Is a hot dog a sandwich?
So when it comes to thisphilosophical debate that has.

(09:37):
That dates back to Aristotle,I'm pretty.
Sure the church has beenwrestling with this one for a while.
For a very long time.
I don't know why we can't justlet a hot dog be a hot dog, but I
do see the argument of it is a.
An object wrapped arounddough, but not encased by said bread,

(10:01):
because obviously if it'sencased, then it becomes a dumpling
ravioli or a pop tart, whichis its own theological and philosophical
debate in of itself.
So is a hot dog a sandwich?
I will go with yes, based offof the construct, although I guess

(10:21):
it could be a regional issueas well.
Where.
Where do you land on thisfirst tier theological issue?
Yeah, well, people had to makeit halfway through the series before
they really found out.
You know, TJ told him early onthat he believed it is, in fact,
a sandwich.
He gave, like, an Oxford definition.
I feel back on my.
My more daoist leanings of,like, sometimes we just overthink

(10:44):
things and simplicity is the answer.
And when I see a hot dog, I'mnot like, oh, man, that's my favorite
sandwich.
You know, like, just doesn't.
Doesn't pop in my head.
That's a very.
That's a very good point too,though, because, like, that's nowhere
near when I think of, like,oh, I'm gonna go to Jersey Mike's
or Jimmy John's.

(11:05):
I don't go there for hot dogs.
I go there for sandwiches, you know.
Now where's the hot dogs?
Where's the hot dog?
Sorry for my Chicago accent.
Where's my hot dog?
At his favorite sandwich.
So you're like, more at the.
All right, so you're so inyour Dallas leaning.

(11:28):
Yeah.
You're gonna go more of, like, simplicity.
Just let it be.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, and.
And here we go.
I'll make a more thoroughargument for the finale here.
And since TJ Can't Defend, youknow, his side.
You, you could defend his sidefor him.
I think the whole reason thisquestion can exist is because they

(11:50):
come up with a questionknowing that you don't want to say
a hot dog's a sandwich.
The whole reason that someoneasked this question is because inherently
we all are like, hot dog's nota sandwich.
But none of us have a goodexplanation for why it's not.
So the whole reason you askthe question is just so you could
tell someone that they'rewrong and that it is a sandwich.
Because technically, look atthe definition.
But the fact that you asked itknowing that people don't want to

(12:11):
say it's a sandwich tells methat, you know it's not a sandwich.
Sorry, Samantha, I think yougave away your answer by, you know,
asking the question.
You know, often Josh isreferred to as the ultimate UNO reverse
card.
But here's the thing, that wasa really good use the UNO reverse
card there of like.

(12:33):
But why are you asking that question?
Because we ask these kinds ofquestions in the academic world to
screw with the professor andjust draw out the class a little
bit now.
Samantha.
Samantha, right?
Samantha.
Yeah, yeah, let's.
We'll do one for you.

(12:55):
Is a pop Tart a dumpling?
I like it.
I'll find out Next time onFind out next time.
Take a shower.
Yeah.
You should have to follow allthe on the Zelpod test network shows
to figure out which show wasgonna answer that question.
We do have a follow up.
In what ways, if any, do youthink this question could be relevant
to your life?

(13:15):
Oh, it would absolutely berelevant because I'm not even joking
here.
No, I'm not.
Don't put, don't put ketchupon it.
I mean I do, but don't putketchup on it.
No.
I could see how this could bea very relevant question though,
because my son, he's turningthree here pretty soon, probably

(13:38):
by the time this episode comesout, he'll be three years old.
And that means here prettysoon, like in another like year or
two afterwards, he's going tostart the why phase, the question
phase of like constantlyasking questions.
And you know what a littlefour year old would ask?
The question is a hot dog a sandwich?

(13:59):
And then he'll ask why?
So yeah, I think it could happen.
Until you're, you're left withwhat even is a hot dog.
What, what is this meat anyway?
And with that we should dothat sandwich maybe.
Yeah, yeah, we'll talk aboutmore serious things now like ninjas.
The Reason we're doing thisseries is because a lot of our listeners

(14:20):
are pastors, theologians,church leaders, people who attend
seminary.
You know those, those kind ofpeople according to stats and stuff
that we blindly trust.
And we believe our churchleaders should benefit from hearing
more and learning from peoplewho are in different occupations
other than just ministry.
So that's how we're doing theseries or finished doing.
That's why we did the series.

(14:40):
I can say now.
Weird.
Our listeners though, theyprobably remember you from your work
as a pulpit supply ministerover on my Seminary Life.
I don't know if you've been onthe show since you started Kung Fu
Pizza Party, but you also nowwork as a ninja coach for the ymca.
You want to fill our listenersin for like just, just catch them
up a little bit.

(15:00):
What's up with you?
What's this chapter in yourlife now that seems so focused on
kung fu and ninja ism?
And when do we get samurai out?
Yeah.
Oh man, I'm working on thesamurai thing, man.
So I was thinking about this.
I'm not even sure when was thelast time was on whole church.

(15:21):
I was really thinking about this.
I was supposed to be on acouple months ago when you did the
Christian mysticism episodeand that just didn't work out for
me to be here.
So I'm don't, I don't.
It may have been a while now.
So I'll just kind of do.
I'll do the best I can.
So back in back before I knewJosh, like very shortly before I

(15:45):
knew Josh, I went back toseminary and started my seminary
life as a show to recap what Iwas studying every week.
Here's what was a homework assignment.
Here's the book I read.
I read things like that gotconnected with Josh.
We launched Systematic Ecology.
Eventually I graduate fromseminary about two years after meeting

(16:05):
Josh and we launched the AndazMinistries podcast network.
And it was a whirlwind of atime there.
The show took this, yeah, thisshow took this pivot and became more
of like I'm going to now dodeep dives into subjects that I want
to study or things that Ididn't study in seminary that I probably

(16:28):
should have, like apologetics.
Didn't have to take anyapologetics classes.
And I love bringing that upbecause it always makes Christian
Ashley cringe.
And also just that laugh though.
But the whole time I have beenwanting to start a second show.
I'm a stay at home dad so myavailability fluctuates.

(16:51):
But I really wanted to start aSecond show, and I was still trying
to get into vocational ministry.
How to do this next partquickly, I don't know.
So sorry, listeners, you'regoing to hear me talk a lot in this
episode.
TJ always talks so much onwhole church that it's hard to get

(17:12):
a word in edgewise.
So you're just going to haveto listen to me talk more.
I graduated from Bible Collegein 2015.
So from the fall of 2015 tothe summer of 2023, right after I
graduated from seminary, andmy seminary life is taking this pivot,
I was actively applying tovarious churches and denominations

(17:37):
and ministries, all with theintention of getting into pastoral
ministry.
All the while I am doingpulpit supply and volunteering with
my home church in the youthgroup, teach teaching there, and
other things as well duringthat time period, 2015 to 2023, so
that's eight years.
During that time period, Iapplied to roughly somewhere in between

(18:00):
two to 300 jobs related tovocational ministry, the bulk of
them being pastoral ministry.
And I predominantly got ghosted.
I predominantly heard the wordno out of.
Like I said, it was somewherebetween 2 or 300.
I had to start an Excel SPspreadsheet at one point to keep

(18:22):
track.
Not for my own personalenjoyment, because I got no enjoyment
out of it, but because Irealized at one point I was accidentally
applying to the same job twice.
So I needed some kind ofsystem so that way I wouldn't do
that.
And during that time period,out of that many job applications

(18:43):
sent out, I received less than10 interviews, most of them not going
anywhere beyond the firstround interview process.
A lot of them, even when Ithought maybe I was going to land
the job, they ended up justghosting me and never following through.

(19:06):
And like months later, I'mreaching out like, hey, what's going
on?
And they're like, oh, yeah, wehired someone like months ago.
Why are you reaching out to us?
I even had one church and thiswas like, during se.
So somewhere right around like2021, 2022, I had a church.
I applied and they did respondback to let me know that if by this

(19:30):
point no church had hired me,they seriously doubt God had called
me into ministry.
So that was great.
What?
Yes, true story.
So all the while, like,everybody who's in my corner, like,
wanting to support me andwant, you know, from my parents to

(19:51):
my brothers to my friends tomy wife and a lot of my friends who
were in ministry, they wereencouraging me the best they knew
how to.
Oh, you know, the disciples,they weren't qualified for what God
called them into.
Which is a weird comment tomake because I think Judas had a
very specific purpose.

(20:11):
You're super qualified.
He was super called for whathe was supposed to do.
Or like the whole.
God doesn't.
What's the one.
What's the one really nicething people like to say?
God, he doesn't call the qualified.
Qualified.
He qualified.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that one.
Got that one a lot.

(20:32):
And then just started gettingall this advice, like, you know,
yeah, Especially early on,like, hey, once you get married,
once you have a kid, onceyou're like in your late 20s, early
30s, once you get thatmaster's degree, like, then churches
are really going to beinterested in you because obviously
that's all right there in thethird letter to Timothy, that those

(20:54):
are the qualifications of a pastor.
That, you know, you're 30years old with a wife and a kid.
Yeah, yeah, I've read that one.
Sarcasm.
So you read that one.
Good.
So I'm like checking all ofthese additional boxes.
I think my favorite one of allof these, like, cliches and other

(21:17):
things that people are sayingis that my favorite, absolute favorite
one was when I graduated fromcollege, I took my resume and my
cover letter to the, like,office that helps graduates get jobs.
And they made some tweaks,nothing revolutionary.
Just like, oh, you should usethese kinds of words and you should

(21:39):
use dashes instead of bullet points.
Fast forward just a few monthslater, I am in seminary.
And I now have that sameresume at that office in seminary
that I did seminary twice.
I guess I should mention thatin the fall of 2015, I started seminary.
Eventually had to drop out.

(22:00):
So I'm in the fall.
It's the fall of 2015, I'm in seminary.
I take that my exact sameresume to that office that helps
people get jobs.
And that guy looked me dead inthe eye and said, you should really
use bullet points instead of dashes.
And it was like, that was likethe earliest foreshadowing.

(22:20):
That was the earliest foreshadowing.
And I'm trying to watch mylanguage and all of this.
That was the earliestforeshadowing that.
But this is all BS.
There is just so much BS thatgoes into this process.
So summer of 2023, I ammarried with a kid, late 20s, with

(22:42):
a master's degree now, and Ihave a job interview for a hospital
chaplain job.
And I thought I frickin nailedthe job interview.
Knocked it out of the park.
They even did the whole like,okay, you're going to hear from us
in A few days now, wink.
Few days go by.
Whatever that day was thatthey were like, well, we'll reach

(23:03):
back out here in a few days.
Whatever that day was comesand goes.
I send a email to the people,I'm like, hey, just checking in.
Anything that you all needfrom me.
And the response back was, wemoved on to other candidates.
And that was the straw.
That was the straw that brokethe camel's back.
Because then when I repliedwith, well, do you have any feedback

(23:25):
for me?
Never heard from them again.
And that was the straw thatfinally broke the camel's back.
Because I had spent themajority of the past eight years,
you could even throw in mytime in college as well.
So like over 10 years now,just trying to get evangelical Christianity
to take a shot at me.
Okay, that was, that was it.

(23:47):
That was all I was trying to do.
Just somebody take a shot at me.
Just try.
Nobody wanted me.
Nobody.
And it finally I remembertelling my wife, I was like, basically,
at this point, I get it.
Getting a pastor job, thepeople hiring, they are the captain
of the cheerleading squad inhigh school and I am the nerdy AV

(24:10):
kid who's got no chance.
And I get it.
And I'm fine with that.
I don't.
I do not feel the need to makeyou like me anymore.
I don't.
You don't.
You don't want me.
I get it.
I was still frustrated becauseI was still frustrated.
I was still down about it.
And I was in counseling at the time.
Not with a Christiancounselor, but a guy who just respected

(24:33):
my views nonetheless.
And just in a moment of wow,my client really needs a win right
Here he goes, next time youlook for a job.
Because really at this pointI'm just trying to find a job to
get me out of the housebecause I am a stay at home parent
and just need a little bitmore of an income boost.
And the whole bit.
He goes, next time you lookfor a job, just try something different.

(24:56):
Look and see what your localboys and girls club, what your local
YMCA is looking for.
I'm sure they would be happyto have somebody who is like you,
like an older guy.
The older person who's goingto care about making an impact on
kids.

(25:16):
They're always looking forthat kind of people.
Like, okay, so next time I gotan indeed.
I looked up ymca and the veryfirst job listing was for NINJA coach.
And I always make the jokewhen you're on and when I.
When you're on, indeed, andyou see NINJA coach, you apply and
ask questions.
Later.
You don't.
You just go for it.

(25:38):
You don't.
You just go for it.
And I got the job.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's what you do.
And I got the job and haven'tlooked back.
I really enjoy it.
I love it.
And about.
I think it was about back inSeptember, like I said, I've been
wanting to start a second showfor a while, and the concept for

(26:01):
Kung Fu Pizza Party was onethat I had been sitting on for a
very long time.
Just like this.
Initially, very focused ondoing martial art movie, kung Fu
Samurai, ninja flick reviews,just doing, like, movie reviews.
But because there's so little,it's so surprising.
There's, like, very little,like, pop culture, martial art content

(26:26):
out there by way in thepodcast world that is, like, there's
so little, like, shows devotedto that stuff.
I was like, you know what?
I think I'm gonna branch thisout a little bit and start incorporating
more than just doing movie reviews.
And so, you know, that's justbeen going since September.
It's been a lot of fun.

(26:47):
And, yeah, I know that isprobably way more detail than what
you were looking for of what'sbeen going on in your life, but that
whole, like, the journey fromthe journey from seminary to where
I'm at now seems like such aweird jump of, like, how did the

(27:07):
seminarian end up being aninja coach?
But, like, you had tounderstand, like, where I was at
up until that point.
So.
So, yeah, that's me.
That's what's been going on.
And I have been lookingforward to talking about all of this.
Yeah.
Yeah, man, That's a lot.

(27:28):
That's a lot.
I think this is probably agood place to mention.
I hope to have Brandon backlater this year in the fall.
We've been doing two serieseach year.
This fall, our series is goingto be.
Haven't quite got the name forit yet.
It's like behind the scenes ofthe church kind of deal.
Maybe behind the pulpit.

(27:48):
I don't know.
We'll see.
But I want to do a series ofwhat happens behind those big church
events we go to or what goesinto creating that worship setting
that happens on stage andbehind the scenes of a seminary.
That's fun, too.
Or.
Oh, interesting.
Jarring.
Okay.
But keep that in mind.
We'll see.
Oh, man.

(28:10):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, yeah, well, DJ's not hereto stop me.
So.
One of the things that, forme, that's been sticking out since
I started more embracing,like, the Taoist stuff for myself
is the whole concept of thetay of, like, your truest self, which,

(28:31):
you know, given the Bible.
I believe my true self isfound in Christ because I am a Christian.
What's interesting is, like,how many times we find this older
in life after we're like, I nolonger care what these people think
about me.
I'm going to do my thing,whatever that thing is.
For me, it was deciding thatit's not preaching from a pulpit
with churches I disagree withuntil maybe one day I'll convince

(28:53):
them to agree with me.
It's not going to happen.
I kind of learned to lean intothis podcasting thing, and that's
going to become my ministry.
Hearing your story and how itseems like you're starting to find
yourself more in kung fu,martial arts kind of stuff and finding
a way to incorporate that intoministry has been.
It's encouraging to me towatch that happen with you.
It's like, wow, it's really cool.

(29:15):
Another thing for me, ofcourse, was for a long time, Kingdom
Hearts was that thing that Ireally liked and I didn't talk about
too much.
And then one day I was like,actually, it's where I get a lot
of meaning in who I am andjust stop carrying that.
People think I'm weird for that.
Which is why I now have a substack.
Okay, sorry.
We're having some technicaldifficulties, so I'm never sure if

(29:36):
I'm delayed or, you see, heard anything.
So I'm just going move on tothe next thing.
This is our whole church job fair.
So before getting anythingelse, Brandon.
Okay, before anything else, ifsomehow someone's never heard of
what you do, Brandon, howwould you describe the job of a ninja
coach?
And how would you addressanyone who might be interested in
pursuing said career?
I would be pleasantlysurprised if anybody knew what this

(29:59):
was, because I had no ideawhat it was.
So I will say this.
I did kind of the glitches.
The glitches, man, are gettingto us.
But I will say, just to kindof jump off of what you were saying
there a moment ago, a littlebit, like, yeah, I think there's
a part of this of, like,embracing not, like, a new part of

(30:20):
my identity or trying tocompletely shut out a different part
of my identity, but just,like, embracing a fuller picture.
As a kid, like, as a veryyoung child, I had people telling
me, brandon, you're probablygoing to grow up and be a pastor
one day.
And that does something to a person.

(30:40):
It does something to a person.
I don't care how toxicallypositive you are.
To be rejected that much.
But being told at a very youngage that like, hey, Brandon, you're
going to grow up and be apastor one day, like that, that is
a very different way toshepherd a person.
I'll just put it that way.
And so I think for me, I'mjust kind of in a place of like,

(31:01):
seeing my life more than justthis one factor.
So, again, I'm a ninja coachwith an organization called Ninja
Zone.
Ninja Zone started in themiddle of nowhere, Indiana.
That is not the name of thetown, but if you look at it on the
map, that's kind of what itlooks like.
It's in a suburb of Indianapolis.

(31:23):
Because when you think ninja,you think cornfields in Indiana.
Basically, the idea behindNinja Zone was at some point in history,
gymnastics became gendered.
I don't know why, I don't knowwho made the decision.
But at some point, gymnasticsvery much became a girl activity.

(31:44):
It was something for the girls.
I mean, I mean, you even lookat like the Olympics, nobody gives
a rip about the men's team.
It's all about the women'swhen it comes to the Summer Games.
And you know, as somebody whohas now worked in a gymnastics environment
for a year and a half, that'svery true.
Like, there's hardly any boysin just the gymnastics or tumbling

(32:10):
courses.
It is the.
They're just not there.
I don't know.
I don't know who made thisdecision, but that's what happened.
And so Ninja Zone was anattempt to introduce gymnastics to
boys in a.
In a way that would be verystereotypical appealing to boys.
So along with gymnastics, italso introduces parkour and tricking,

(32:37):
which is really cool, flashymartial art kicks that are not good
for self defense, but theysure do look cool.
So it brings those threetogether, paints everything, paints
everything black, throws alittle cartoon, cartoon ninja on.
I don't know if we're doing avideo version of this, but Josh,
I got one of my work shirtson, so you can kind of see the shirt

(32:59):
a little bit black and red islike the two big colors.
And there's other, likemartial art like themes that kind
of get brought into it.
It's by no means a.
It is by no means a selfdefense thing though.
It is very much an activity ishow I.
It's like a martial artactivity is kind of how I talk about

(33:20):
it with parents.
If you are imagining the gameshow American Ninja Warrior, but
for children, you're actuallynot too far off.
That is a lot of what my job is.
And I work specifically at 8.
Yeah, yeah.
I work specifically at a localYMCA here in my area.

(33:42):
They are a, an officiallylicensed gym that has Ninja Zone.
So that is.
And like I said, my job titleis literally Ninja Coach.
That is on my resume, resumenow as a 30 year old adult.
And I love it.
I, I also love it.
I love telling people that I'mfriends with a Ninja coach.
It's great.

(34:03):
Oh man.
So for maybe a lot of peopleout there, they hear Ninja Coach,
they might think like that's areally sweet sounding job.
That sounds super cool ormaybe like that's kind of weird.
You know, even with yourdescription for a lot of people,
it's still kind of unique.
Probably for yourself.
How would you, I don't know,compare it to other jobs in ways
that you think, like whatmakes it unique, but then also what

(34:25):
ways?
Maybe this job is more likesome other jobs that people might
relate to.
So it is a very quirky job.
But when it comes to relatingto other jobs, if you do something
that involves children, likechat, not necessarily like child
care, but if you're doing likean after school program, this is

(34:49):
just a very unique style of aafter school program.
Our biggest, you know, I workin the late afternoon and evenings.
That's kind of our, our mainevent time.
I guess you could put it likethat's our, our big time for all
of our classes.
And so, yeah, it's just kindof like a really cool, very unique

(35:09):
after school program.
And again, if you're, youknow, if you're someone out there
who has taught in agymnastics, tumbling, even cheer
environment, like there'splenty of overlap.
There's a lot of uniqueelements to it, but there are a lot
of overlap within, you know,the skills that are taught as well.

(35:33):
Yeah, yeah.
As a Ninja coach, someone whotalks with kids, you know, kids love
fun word things.
What's some of the fun lingoyou get to use?
Because there's got to besomething that's just like crazy
that you could say all thetime that nobody else does.
I mean, so a lot of that comesdown to the ridiculous names that

(35:56):
these skills have.
So.
So like my job is to, I guessI haven't actually like really explained
this.
So my job is to teach theseskills, these parkour, gymnastics
and trick kicks to studentswho are like elementary age predominantly.

(36:16):
We actually do start as youngas 18 months.
If the kid can walk, they canbecome a Ninja.
What?
And so my job is to teachthese kids.
Yes.
So the, it's called Baby Ninjabecause of course it is.
And Baby Ninja is.

(36:36):
Baby Ninja is a parent class.
So our job is really just Baby Ninja.
It is.
Does sound like a, like aPixar or Dreamworks movie.
Basically it is a parent in meclass, which means that we create
the environment for thestudent, for the students, but the
parents actually are the onesworking with the little ones.

(36:59):
We're just to be there more aslike for safety purposes.
So my job is to build obstaclecourses and to pass these skills
along to these students.
So I've got the, you know, ifyou, if you're picturing like American
Ninja Warrior, we have likethe ricochet mats that you jump from

(37:23):
one to the other to the other.
There's like these walls thatare about like waist high to an adult
that you learn these differentvaulting techniques to get over them.
We do have a warped wall,which is that thing that kind of
looks like a ramp at a skatepark that you run, run, run up.
We also have the ninja rig,which has a variety of different.

(37:46):
It kind of looks like theelimination chamber from wwe, but
it's kind of got like allthese different like climbing elements
to it.
Like there's a rope net thing,there's these really tall monkey
bars, like a whole bunch ofdifferent ways to like climb around
on it.
And, and, and that's.
I also am the academy coach.

(38:07):
So I started doing the recprogram, which is baby ninja, little
ninja and youth ninja, whichis just these different age groups.
It is predominantly boys whoare students.
But do you do get some girls?
It's not like no girls allowedkind of thing.
You do get some girls in thereas well.

(38:28):
And.
But I am the academy coach.
So the difference between the rec.
The rec program and theacademy program is that in the rec
program there's a veryspecific skill sheet that you teach.
It's one skill sheet where youlearn things like forward roll, cartwheels,
backward rolls, all that kindof stuff.

(38:49):
Really basic kicks, likeroundhouse kick, hook kick, things
like that.
In the academy there are five levels.
White, white, ninja, yellow,green, blue and purple.
As of this recording, we onlyhave students as far as blue.
We don't have any purpleninjas yet.
And the bulk of our of ourstudents are in Yellow Ninja right

(39:13):
now.
And at each of those differentlevels you get a completely different
set of skills that you learn.
At each one you also get.
It's a T shirt with a ninjamask on it that's kind of this cartoon
looking ninja mask on it.
And at White Ninja, the maskis white.
You go to yellow, you Get ablack T shirt with a yellow mask,

(39:36):
so on and so forth.
Kind of like a.
A little bit like the martialarts with the belts or sashes.
But again, there's no combatelement to.
You know, sometimes if you'refloating around the stuff that I
look at on Instagram, you seethings like parkour, mma.
That's not what's going on here.
There's no like combatelements to this at all, but hit

(40:00):
head on, head to head, combatelements to it.
But yeah, when it comes tolike the terminology, you know, I've
dropped some terms along theway, but all of these skills, especially
the parkour ones, just haveridiculous names.
I can do a Kong, a doublekong, a tsunami, a butterfly.

(40:20):
I can do.
Trying to think of it.
Twist, a Macaco.
I'm.
I almost have my Transformer.
And I wish, I wish I could sayI could do an aerial.
If you're from the gymnasticsworld, you know what that one is?
But yeah, all of the most.
Some of those were kicks, someof those are ways to get yourself

(40:43):
up over a.
An object.
Basically, if you've everplayed Assassin's Creed and you're
like, I want to do this, thatis my job.
My job is to make littleAssassin's Creed characters.
That is what I'm doing for aliving, perfect.
You know, you ask thequestion, this is what the world
needs.

(41:03):
And you ask the question oflike, who, who should look for this?
You should look, you know, if,if this sounds interesting to you,
like, who should do this kindof work?
Basically, if you have abackground in martial arts or gymnastics
or parkour, you can make it work.
So like, I have this martialarts background, but doing martial
arts for over 20 years, sodoing the kicks has been really easy

(41:28):
for me.
They're starting to get trickybecause it's like cheat 900 now,
which are, again, none ofthese things are actually helpful
in self defense, but they lookreally cool when you do them, which
is a jump spinning kick, bythe way.
I guess I'm purposely notexplaining as much as possible just
because it sounds cooler thatway, but it's more fun as long as

(41:52):
you have like a background in what.
Yeah, right.
If you.
As long as you have abackground in one of those three
areas, you can kind of learnon the job with the rest of the skills.
So like, for me, with themartial art background, doing the
kicks has been so easy.
I've been able to likeintroduce so much equipment that

(42:12):
was commonplace in the martialart world.
But when you're working withpeople who have More of a gymnastics
background.
It's like, okay, these arevery basic kick pads that you need.
So that way these kids cansafely learn how to do these kicks.
The parkour elements have alsobeen pretty easy.
That's like the easiest thingfor me to kind of like, pull learn.

(42:33):
Next is all of the, like, howto get over this object in a really
cool way.
Like, that's.
That has been the next easiest part.
It's been the gymnastics stuff.
Especially, like, you knowthose bars, like, if you watch the
Olympics, you have the unevenbars that you, like, swing from.
We do stuff with that.
And that has been.

(42:53):
My Polish dad bod has had areally hard time getting used to
doing that stuff.
But.
But yeah, like, if that is,you can just Google.
Google Ninja Zone.
It will come up and you cansearch on there, wherever you're
located at, to see where yournearest gym is and see if they're

(43:14):
hiring.
If any of this wackinesssounds at all like, I would totally
want to go do this.
I think it all sounds wonderful.
Quick aside before, you know, pick.
Pick to PDAC up because we're.
We're behind, but it's fine.
Glitches.
I blame glitches.
The antigrav glitches and tjnot related, probably.

(43:34):
But I'm also going to do whatyou did and not explain things.
When I was doing martial arts,there was like, we learned a tornado
kick, which was like, I guessI will explain.
It was like a step.
And then after the step, youdo a spin kick for some reason, a
jumping spin kick.
And the reverse tornado kickwas basically just the backwards

(43:55):
part, but without the step.
So it's just a spin kick.
And like, for the life of me,I still think about this.
It bothers me as I'm like, notonly is the reverse tornado easier,
I mean, it's easier.
I think it looks cooler.
For some reason, we learned itat a more advanced level.
It's also way more practical.
And I'm like, why do we evenlearn the tornado?

(44:17):
I'm like, why?
Why the steps?
Right?
Yeah.
That's the thing about theTornado kick.
And a lot of these, like theButterfly kick and the Tsunami Kick,
again, they all look cool.
And to very simply explain it,they all involve some combination
of turning, stepping, and jumping.

(44:38):
Like, there's all that.
It plays out in different wayseach time.
But there is.
Yeah, there is a good pointthere of, like, why the Tornado kick
is so ineffective in an actual fight.
Because you have to have thatsetup step, the Tsunami Kick, you
actually start from, like, Aneutral stance.
Just like, feet together, andthen you step into it like you're

(45:01):
walking into the kick.
And I'm like, this makes sense.
Let me just be as vulnerableas possible before I do this kick.
It's in case you're at anoffice meeting.
You're like, you know what?
I just want to kick that guy.
I'm gonna kick Rick becausehe's such a jerk.
A Kong.
I will explain some of the vaults.

(45:22):
A Kong?
Yeah, A Kong is you run up to,like, let's say you're at a park
and there's a bench, andyou're gonna launch yourself over
it.
You jump, grab onto the top ofthe bench, and you pull yourself
forward.
Your feet never touch that bench.
You don't put your feet downand then jump off it or anything

(45:44):
like that.
A macaco is you're down, feeton the floor, one hand behind you,
and you kind of jump and pushyourself through your toes and throw
your legs over the top of yourhead to land on your feet.
It's kind of like you'rethrowing yourself backwards.
This sounds super cool, butalso impractical.

(46:06):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Again, like, what's funny is,like, a lot of the stuff that we
teach, like, you know, as youadvance more, you learn front flip,
back flip, front handspring,back handspring, aerial.
Like, all of these stuff that,like, even if you don't know what
some of these terms are, ifyou've ever watched the summer games
and you've ever watched thewomen's, like, floor routine, especially

(46:29):
in gymnastics, you've seenthese skills.
But what's funny is, like,this is the stuff that people assume
you learn in the martial artsbecause they've seen it in Power
Rangers and other really cool,cheesy 80s flicks.
And it's like, no, all of thisstuff is actually super impractical

(46:50):
when it comes to self defense, but.
Or even, like, even, like in asport, in a sport kind of environment,
like, a lot of this stuff issuper impractical.
It just looks cool.
Yeah, yeah.
I will say Power Rangers.
Power Rangers is probably oneof my favorite historical documentaries.
Anyway, moving on so we canfinish this up for the meat of these

(47:13):
episodes.
You know, we want to talk.
We want to go through these 12theological topics, and this is cheating
because you go to seminary.
So, you know, all these, youknow, stuff that's often debated
by theologians, podcasters,pastors, etc.
We want to see how they impactpeople's everyday lives.
So we're going to run throughthese 12 topics that our Facebook
group voted on, not includingthe sandwich question.
We already did that.

(47:35):
And just like a multiple choice.
I need you to let me know ifyou find it somewhat relevant.
Relevant.
Really relevant.
Or if you've never heard ofit, but that there's no point in
me saying that you know all of these.
I know you well enough to knowyou know all these, so just not relevant.
Somewhat relevant.
Really relevant.
I'm excited for this one.
It's gonna be fun because I.
I don't.
I don't know what you're gonna say.

(47:56):
And it's fun because you have,like, a deep knowledge of all of
these, what they are, but Idon't know if that impacts your bias
on whether or not you thinkthey're relevant.
All right, Brandon.
Soteriology.
The nature of what it means tobe saved.
Doesn't matter.
Irrelevant.
Free will versus predestination.
Irrelevant.
Atonement models.

(48:16):
Irrelevant.
It's all irrelevant.
All right.
Continuationism versusSatanism when it comes to the gift
of the spirit.
Irrelevant.
Christology.
Irrelevant.
God's nature.
Irrelevant.
I'm really getting to beworried that they're all going to
be irrelevant.
Social justice.
That one is relevant.

(48:37):
Hooray.
The doctrine of Mango Daymight be.
Surprising pleasing to listeners.
Relevant.
The nature of scripture.
Irrelevant.
Ecclesiology and missiology.
What it means to be the churchand how the church approaches outreach.
Irrelevant.
I know this has to be relevant.

(48:57):
Demonology and angelology.
I wish it was.
I wish it was.
I personally.
Yeah, yeah, that's irrelevant.
All right.
Well, I was so excited to dothis part.
I'm not gonna lie.
None of our faith is relevant.
Tell us why.

(49:18):
So.
So here's the thing is, like,it was hard for me to do this part
because as you oversold, assomeone who is theologically trained
and been been doing pastoralwork for in Pulpa supply forms, like,
it's weird to think, like, on paper.
Yeah.
Atonement models.

(49:38):
Atonement is a big deal.
Free will versus predestination.
Like, that's a big deal, right?
Like, it totally.
You know, all jokes asideabout hot dogs and sandwiches and
pop tarts and dumplings, like.
Like that is one of those onesthat's like, so often theologically
waxed.
And I personally love thisstudy of demonology, but when it

(50:02):
comes to, like, what I amdoing, so much of this is completely
irrelevant.
And I work at the ymca, thehub of muscular Christianity, moralism,
and most of this is completely irrelevant.
Yeah, yeah.
I'm just part a little bit different.
It's fine.
I was kind of surprised yousaid soteriology was irrelevant.

(50:26):
You know, the nature be savedbecause, you know, like, for a lot
of us it's like salvation thatlike, defines everything about who
I am.
All that.
Unpack that for me a little bit.
Why to you is soteriology notfeel very relevant?
It's not part of the job.
I don't know how better tolike, obviously when I am doing my
job, I am there to.
I am there to represent Christin my work, but that doesn't mean

(50:48):
that I'm like sitting down towitness to the.
Okay, now we're going to gothrough the Romans road.
Like they are there to learnspecific skills and to do specific
things.
It's very much an environmentwhere I am there to embody Christ
by my actions and occasionallywithin my words as well.

(51:09):
Like when I'm trying to have.
Like.
There are times when moreserious conversations come up, but
predominantly the things thatreally do matter in this environment,
if we are going through thislist of 12 things is social justice.
And like I said, based off ofeverything else, it might be kind
of surprising.
But in a roundabout way, thelike, reality of the Imago Day does

(51:35):
play a factor as well, I would say.
But maybe I'm just being a bitof a jerk, but by and large a lot
of these especially very likethe, the cessation versus whatever
the other word is.
I can't remember off the topof my head.
Yeah, that's not relevant.
I'm sorry if I'm sorry, personwho thought that one was relevant.

(51:57):
It's not.
It really has nothing to dowith my job.
Love ya.
Has nothing to do with whatI'm doing.
Yeah, but social justice and I would.
I think there's an argumentalso for the Imago Day being a factor
in my work.
Yeah, it's funny because Iprobably am one of the ones that
would argue cessationism andcontinuationism is super relevant,
partially probably because Iwant it to be, but it's fine.

(52:23):
And also, you know, it dependson how you define gifts of spirit,
et cetera, et cetera.
Yeah, that's a whole, wholelong thing.
Et cetera, et cetera.
One of the things that'sinteresting, I would say by far the
two that get picked the mostis like the most relevant throughout
this whole series has beensocial justice and imago dei.
And I think in progressivechurches you do hear a lot of social
justice.

(52:43):
In conservative churches youhear why you don't need the social
justice gospel a lot.
For some reason, I don'treally hear a lot of people talking
about Imago Day.
Like, they might bring it up.
If you ask somebody, like,what's an important thing, they might
say Imago Day, like yourpastors and stuff.
I don't hear it preached aboutvery often.
Why.
Why don't we preach aboutImago Day more when, like, clearly
that's what people want tohear more about.

(53:05):
Well, when it.
The.
The time to.
When I hear Imago Day comesfrom the pro life or abolitionist
camps, talking about why weshould preserve the life of those
in the womb.
The reason why I choose ImagoDay and social justice.

(53:26):
To me, these two are actuallygoing hand in hand, because especially
in the environment I'm workingin with the ymca, you cannot call
the YMCA woke because one,that's not a bad thing, and two,
you can't call them wokebecause the YMCA has for decades
been working to be aninclusive place, to be a place for

(53:50):
families and to be a safespace for people of all religious
backgrounds, of all differentwalks of life, of all different shapes
and sizes and gender identity.
I worked with a trans personat the ymca.
There you go.
So to me, maybe not so muchlike Ninja Zone itself, but the environment

(54:13):
in which I am teaching itdefinitely values being inclusive,
making a safe space forchildren and families.
And to me, when we are talkingabout social justice this way, which
is a very low entry point,admittedly, when.
When it comes to socialjustice, this reaffirms Imago Day.

(54:36):
This reaffirms.
Even if that, I mean, by nomeans is.
Has anyone ever thrown thatterm around while I've been at work.
But this reaffirms that humanbeings worth.
Yeah, human beings have worthbecause they are made in the image
of God.
And yeah, we value that bycreating a safe space for all people.

(55:01):
So that's why to me, of all ofthese, those are the two most relevant
ones.
Maybe if I sat down, reallyworked it out, I could figure out
a way to make more of these work.
I'm sorry, I still can'tfigure out how to make demonology
fit in there.
But I.
I am confident that socialjustice and the imago dei, one, they

(55:24):
go together, and two, they arevery present in my work.
Yeah, of course it's easy forme to make angelology and demonology
work.
So much of our currentangelology, gemonology relies on
studies by Thomas Aquinas.
And you do know, if you followhis work, that pretty much everything

(55:44):
he says relies on logical fallacies.
And knowing logical fallacieswill help you from making stupid
mistakes at Work.
So there you go.
Don't be like.
He was a big.
He did love his Greekphilosophy, that is for sure.
I will give you that.
He did love his Greek philosophy.

(56:05):
All right, so you picked acouple you focused in on.
You focused in on imago dei,social justice.
Yeah.
A lot of the other ones yousaid were irrelevant.
What would you rather thechurch and our pastors, theologians
be focusing on than some ofthese topics that we tend to hear
them focus on?
What would I rather.

(56:25):
The church?
The church or seminaries?
Which one do you want me to answer?
Or, like, both?
Yeah, both.
Yeah, yeah, both.
Okay.
How do I put this, y'all?
We need more ethic examinations.
Okay?
That's my thing.
That's what seminary needs.
You like, look, I'm the.

(56:46):
My seminary life guy, and I constantly.
I shouldn't say constantly.
I have gotten my fair share ofpeople from the outside saying, this
is what's wrong with seminary.
And I go, bro, you don't evenwork here.
You don't even go here.
But one thing that's neverbrought up and I think is here's

(57:08):
the scenario I want to presentto you.
Pastors have to take an ethics examination.
They have to be required to take.
This is not happening.
This is what I want to happen.
Okay?
Those getting specificallymasters of Divinity and pastoral
studies.
If you're in some form ofpastoral studies, you should be required

(57:30):
to take an ethics examination.
In order to take an ethicsexamination, you then have to take
ethics.
You have to study ethics.
And I'm not talking about theethics class I took in college, which
was basically waxingphilosophically over if a hot dog
was a sandwich.
I mean, that's.
It's.
That kind of stuff, you know,and those kind of classes.
It's a lot of the.

(57:51):
What's that ridiculous one of,like, you're in a runaway trolley
car and it's either crash thetrolley or run someone over.
It's like, yeah, like thesethings that don't.
If you don't pull the lever,four people get murdered.
But if you pull the lever,only one person gets murdered.
Do you do the action killingthe one person, or you just let four

(58:11):
people die?
And if that one person answerI heard was from a Franciscan monk,
I think the best answer Iheard was from a Franciscan monk
who said, yeah, that's not howlife works.
That's.
That's not how that works.
No.
They need to not just waxphilosophically about ethical situations

(58:32):
and viewpoints that are irrelevant.
They need to understand thatbad things have consequences.
Lawyers have to take ethics examinations.
Counselors, depending on thestate you live in, have to take board
certified ethics examinations.
Doctors have to take theHippocratic oath.
Like there is this check andbalance of you understand that you

(58:55):
are here to do good, and ifyou do bad, you're gonna have consequences.
And for that, I would saypastors have to study ethics.
They have to take an ethics examination.
And if there is a stealingmoney from the church or doing things
that you should not be doingto minors or having even possibly

(59:17):
to the extent of having anaffair, you should lose your.
Lose your ethics card and youcannot pastor until you go through
the process again.
That is.
And I know I should have abetter thing than ethics card.
You lose your ethics certification.
No, you have to take an ethics course.
Take the, take the boardcertification again, and then you

(59:38):
can reenter ministry.
But Brandon, what about grace?
What about forgiveness and mercy?
You're the one cheapeninggrace by protecting predators.
I'm working at the stupid ymca.
I shouldn't say stupid.
I love my job.
I'm working at the YMCAteaching kids how to look cool doing
kicks.

(59:58):
And I am a mandatory reporter.
I have, I have had to take allthese courses and certifications
that were not part of myseminary training.
That taught me, hey, if you dobad things to children, there's consequences
for that.
If you are aware of someonedoing bad things to children, you

(01:00:19):
have to do something about that.
Pastors should be held to thesame standards.
Seminaries should have toprepare pastors for that.
And I'm sorry, churches, I'msorry to the person who just wants
to throw grace and mercyaround because you care more about
your pastor than you do victims.
But there's.
There's got to be something.

(01:00:40):
You know, I don't know if thiswould fix everything.
Obviously, people are alwaysgoing to get through the cracks.
There's always doctors andlawyers and counselors who do bad
things.
But hey, throwing a bar in theway that actually could make sense
versus you need to be 30 yearsold, married, with a kid, throwing

(01:01:04):
the bar out there of, hey, youhave to take an ethics examination
and if you fail, you can'tenter ministry.
And if you steal money fromthe church, you lose your certification
and you can't minister anymore.
To me, that seems like maybethat might help a little bit.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's crazy how in normalworkplaces, it's a lot easier to

(01:01:25):
contact your hr, reportconcerns about your boss than it
is the church in general.
The church has terriblebusiness policies just when it comes
to hiring, firing, paysVacation, Covid, even.
Everybody, if you work forlike, Covid was handled terribly.
Oh, yeah, everybody should gocheck out.
If you work for a nonprofit,go see what their rating is on Charity

(01:01:49):
Navigator.
It's this organization, it's athird party that reviews websites.
It's not like Yelp or RottenTomatoes where anyone can write a
review of the organization.
It's a third party that ratesnonprofits and 501c3 based off of
the transparency they have onthe Internet, on their website, on

(01:02:11):
their social media, and whoknows, you might find out that you're
really great.
501 C3 actually has a terriblerating because they're not as transparent
as they should be.
Yeah, yeah.
No, it's heavy.
I also wish pastors had totake two logic exams.
One that's actually teachinglogic and the other one is to see
how much they agree withThomas Aquinas.

(01:02:32):
I think that should affectwhether or not you can do ministry
anyway.
So everyone sees the worldthrough different eyes.
Brandon.
My seminary life is going to do.
No, no, no, hold on.
My seminary life is going todo a whole series now just devoted
to St.
Thomas Aquinas.
And it's going to be finally,I've wanted to do this for a while

(01:02:52):
where I just bring somebody onas like a.
In a like part time guest hostrole and we do a whole series together
and I just have to do this now.
It's got to be like a goodcop, bad cop where you say some nice
things and then I just, I'm.
Not even like, I'm not evenlike, I would be a bad good cop because

(01:03:18):
I don't even like, I have nostrong feelings towards St.
Thomas Aquinas.
Like, when you get into theapologetics world, the guy is everywhere.
But then you can alsocompletely tear down how we do apologetics.
So that doesn't even help.
Before I started this podcast,the whole church podcast, I had no
feelings about Thomas Aquinas.
Tej just mentioned it a few times.

(01:03:40):
And then one day I startedlooking up, like, why is he not like
Thomas Aquinas?
And then I started likereading what this guy wrote and I'm
like, this guy is stupid.
And now I'm just became reallypassionate about it for some reason.
Anyway, so each of us see theworld through different eyes.
As a coach, sensei, is thereanything that you think you see that
our pastors, church leaders,theologians would benefit for seeing

(01:04:00):
for themselves or learningmore about from people like you?
You?
Yeah, I think, you know, youknow, you read these studies or these
Books about, like, oh, the young.
The youngins, they're soanxious and so insecure and have
all these kind of, like,mental illness things.
And you know what?
Come work with me sometime.
And you do see it, like, youknow, you have these kids who.

(01:04:23):
It's more than just having afear of heights because we do climb
up, climb up, really tallstuff and then jump down.
Like, that is a part of the job.
Job.
But the.
It is more than just like, afear of heights.
Like, there you do see, like,kids who are truly, like, struggling
with anxiety, struggling withall these different, like, mental

(01:04:45):
health things.
And also, like, a lot ofspecial need kids as well.
Like, definitely something Iwas not prepared for of working with
children on the spectrum.
So I would say, like, if you.
I would say that is like a bigbenefit that I think pastors and
theologians could.
Could potentially benefit fromis actually like, being on the ground
and working with childrenrather than just reading about these

(01:05:10):
things in a book and thensaying, oh, yeah, we should do something
about that.
Like, it's different when youcan actually, like, put a name and
a face together of like, wow,you have so much anger and anxiety
and you're seven.
Like, you really shouldn't.
Yeah, man.
Man, it's been a lot, Brandon.

(01:05:33):
You know, usually at the endof our shows, we ask about practical
actions kind of stuff.
For this series, we've beenasking everybody, yeah, what can
the church do to better helppeople in your job?
So, like, if someone's in thechurch or just like a local church
was like, hey, we want to domore for our local coaches and senseis,
like Brandon Knight.
What could we do to betterhelp our coaches and senseis?

(01:05:55):
Yeah, you know, it's aninteresting question.
Obviously, we'll just throwthe easy, you know, pray for us,
because we're working withkids who are coming off of their
ADHD medicine, and we are not per.
Necessarily trained to do thator to, again, work with kids on the
spectrum.
But, you know, I think.

(01:06:17):
I think a big thing is.
And I've really appreciatedhow you all have been handling this
series of.
I would really like to see thechurch maybe step away from the whole
marketplace.
How we talk about, like, yougo into ministry or there's the marketplace,

(01:06:39):
and it's kind of.
It's.
It's not.
It's not the number two, but it's.
It is.
Right, like, when we.
When we frame it that way,like, it's the number two option.
Be in ministry or, you know,you can work in the marketplace.
Plus, I just hate the wordmarketplace, it's just kind of a
gross word.
Yeah.
So, yeah, I would say justkind of, like, how about we just

(01:06:59):
see all of life as ministry?
Like, it looks like verydifferent ways, from serving people
quality meals to teachingchildren to helping children learn
that they can do amazingskills, amazing tricks with their
body.
Like, and it's because God hasgifted us with, like, this weird

(01:07:22):
meat bag covered in skin thatwe can do these ridiculous tricks.
Like, it's so cool.
Let's not treat other jobs as,like, secondary things.
Like, it is all ministry, andit's all cool and it's all wonderful.
Man, that was just.
That was beautiful.
Yeah.
What happens, Brandon, if wedo that?

(01:07:43):
Like, if everybody does stoptreating, you know, other jobs is,
like, the marketplace, like,not ministry.
And we do.
Like, we truly.
The church actually justtreats everything like it's ministry.
What changes?
You know, I think if we didthat, you know, there may be more
unity.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Right, right.

(01:08:06):
Yeah.
It's almost like this is theseason, the series finale, and I
feel pressured to, like, yeah,tie this in a bow for everybody.
But, like, you know, it iskind of like a.
It is a way to, like, bringunity of, like, oh, there's not the
ministry people, the pastors,the theologians, and then all you
marketplace people.

(01:08:27):
But, like, we're all justworking together to the glory of
God and our jobs.
Some of us preach, some of usteach, some of us are ninja coaches,
and we're all just serving Godin our very specific ways.
Yeah.
Although some of us may becooler than others.
Come on, Ninja.
Anyway, I do have the coolerjob title.

(01:08:53):
Always good to have you, man,but thanks.
You know, we like with the Godmoment section.
TJ always makes me go first,so I'll go first.
Give you time to think aboutyour God moment.
Six years ago today, I got engaged.
So sometimes I just.
Oh, nice.
I like being married and justreflected on life, and I'm like,

(01:09:14):
I like life right now.
I like being married andhaving dogs and cats and living in
a nice little neighborhood.
I just feel blessed today.
Yeah.
Just feeling blessed.
That's my moment.
It's lame, but, hey, it's aseries finale.
What do you expect other thana letdown or a hang?
Right?
I was about to call it a hangover.
What's it actually called?

(01:09:35):
Like, the cliffhanger.
There we go.
Cliffhanger.
Cliffhanger.
Now.
Now I'm trying to figure outhow to do a cliffhanger.
Also, Brandon works a secondjob as a pterodactyl assassin.
Find out next time.
Thank you for saying pterodactyl.
You paused a little too longon Terra.
I was like, he's not going tosay terrorist, is he?

(01:09:56):
Like the ultimate cliffhanger.
Brand is also the dangerous.
Okay, what is your God momentor assassination mission?
Oh, my gosh.
My God moment would be that weare recording this just two days.

(01:10:17):
Two days from my son Cooper'sthird birthday.
So all this week is gettingthings ready for his party here at
the end of the week, which isCurious George themed.
We're doing Curious Georgethis year, so this has been a fun
time of getting things ready.
I just want Curious GeorgeGoes to Wonderland.

(01:10:38):
And the title of the movie isjust Curious George Curiouser and
curiouser.
Yeah, that's what I want.
Love that.
That's my new God.
Clever.
My new what if Curious George Wonderland.
That's right.
All right.
All right.
Finishing up TJ's stuff andreading this outline.
Please share it with a friend,enemy, or a cousin if you enjoyed

(01:10:59):
the episode or if you didn'tenjoy the episode.
I really don't care if youenjoyed it or not.
Just share it with somebody now.
All right.
Also, you better liked it.
You talked to a ninja coach.
Dang it.
Like, you better have liked this.
Come on.
How often do we get ninjas onthe show?
If you want cool merch, likewhat I'm wearing, If you're on YouTube,
it's soft, it's comfy.

(01:11:19):
You can go to our store.
There's a link down below inthe show notes, description, whatever
you want to call it.
Check out all the shows ofLoves all podcast network.
Brandon does Kung Fu PizzaParty, as well as my seminary life,
both on the network.
I do dummy for theology.
It's fun.
If you want to hear more aboutlogic, theology, why I don't like
Thomas Aquinas, head over there.

(01:11:40):
I also might be renaming itsoon, so we'll see.
Hope you enjoyed the show reading.
Next week we're going to do anencore, an encore to the series.
The encore episode, of course,is going to be with Andy Walsh.
We're going to be talkingabout faith in science and how his
faith impacts his work as a scientist.
Then we'll take a week off andwe're actually going to have a round

(01:12:00):
table of pastors andprofessors who are going to help
us reflect on this series.
We're going to talk about,like, what people said was and wasn't
relevant.
That's happening in seminariesand churches.
And then we're going to talkto the leaders of these seminaries
and churches be like, hey,people said what you're talking about
is not relevant.
What are we doing?
And see what they say.
What are we doing after that?
We're gonna have some episodeswith Theology Beer Camp.
We got a.
We got Brandon Sanderson'scoming on about talking about being

(01:12:22):
queer and Christian.
Josh Patterson and Aaron, theleader of the Christian podcasters
group on Facebook.
Or talk about some contrary ofpost he did where a lot of people
got in the comments andattacked him.
And we're like, well, is thisreally what Christian podcast podcasters
do?
Attack people?
I don't.
We'll see.
Anyway, we got a lot of fun stuff.

(01:12:48):
You guys can make it to atleast some of those.
We're excited to see where theshow goes next.
Of course, at the end seasonone, we know what's gonna happen.
Francis Chan is going to be onthis show probably if you guys.
And he agrees.
Yeah.

(01:13:10):
Lord, be close to us Lord,have mercy on us Lord, please put,
put your hand on us day by day.

(01:13:40):
Lord.
Have mercy on us Lord, pleaseput your hand on us day by day.