Bloodthirsty Hunters

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey guys, welcome to the Wild Bits Show.

(00:04):
I am Upamanyu new and I am Meghana and we have got a great show plan for you.
We will be talking about the headline topic which is about Florida's first
Bear Hunt since 2015.
We will also be talking about Belugas that are being exported

(00:26):
from Canada. What else do we have Meghana?
We will also be talking about how animals that spread seeds are critical
climate solutions as well as talk about how there is a new batch of 8 to 10
cheetahs expected to arrive in December in India.
So, and if we have the time we will be covering other topics.

(00:50):
So stay tuned in.
Alright, why don't we jump straight into the headline topic which is

(01:16):
which says 160,000 apply for Florida's first Bear Hunt since 2015.
This is a report from AP News. How crazy is that?
I think Florida's Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission FWC will issue 172

(01:38):
Bear Hunt permits by a random lottery for December Hunt.
This is probably worse than the Visa crisis.
Yeah, absolutely true.
I think I read about this early on, like just before we were starting our show

(02:04):
about 12 weeks ago where Canada was doing something similar, issuing some permits
bears and stuff, but now I think Florida is doing doing the same.
So the 172, the number of permits, is a slight reduction from its initial proposal.
So obviously we wanted more. The people of Florida wanted more permits to be issued.

(02:30):
The state, home to an estimated 4,000 black bears received 163,459 to be exact.
Number of applications for the limited number of permits for its first hunt in a decade.
I'm actually a little curious to know what is this slight reduction from its initial proposal.

(02:52):
Was it 175 permits to bring it down to 172?
Yeah, that's a good question.
Yeah, I mean, I would say it would have been something like 500 or something.
That would be my wager.
So 187.
187.
Because a slight reduction would mean like, like, you know, so.

(03:16):
But knowing how we operate, you know, you can never know.
This might be, you know, a fluff piece for the government as well.
Yeah, but anyway, it seems like the slight user words like is correct here.
187 permits initially. There was the proposal.
It was reduced to 172.

(03:40):
Notably many application came, applications came from hunt opponents,
including groups like Sierra Club and speak up.
Vikiva. What hunt opponents? What does that mean?
Like, people who oppose hunting, why would they apply?
Maybe so that you take the permits that the hunters had to get.

(04:04):
That's a good idea.
Yeah, that's a very good idea.
Okay.
Okay, yeah, there is a quote from the article which says,
Opponents also sued to try to halt the hunt.
Yeah, that makes complete sense.
That makes complete sense.
These organizations encouraged individuals to obtain hunting licenses

(04:28):
and apply for permits they never intended to use.
Aiming to reduce the number of available tags and ultimately save bear lives.
Opponents also filed lawsuits to halt the controversial hunt.
You see plans to collect the evidence.
Collect and evaluate data from this hunt which follows a 2015 event

(04:52):
where over 300 bears were killed in two days.
Oh my god.
But this is a good idea.
If the 160,000, I was surprised by that number.
But now it seems like it might be like a good number
because a lot of that might be hunt opponents.
Maybe you know how they say that if you can't defeat your enemy,

(05:16):
join them.
So it might be one of those classic examples that okay,
if I can't stop the hunt, let me just participate,
get a permit and just like block someone else's hunting.
Whatever you would say.
Yeah, hunting chance.
You'll have to be pretty convincing though.
Like you'd really want to hunt.
You'll have to have those quintessential pictures of with your guns

(05:40):
and you know.
Do you know how the permit was in my mind?
On the social media.
I don't think the hunting permit requires photos and stuff.
It might just be a problem.
No, but like the government in the US,
like the border patrol is checking like people's Facebook accounts
for like their visa, issuing their visas and stuff.
So they might also check your social media and stuff to see if you're actually

(06:04):
an hunter or something like that.
Like or you're just like a bogus person.
I don't know, but yeah, just a thought.
Yeah.
But I think the funniest thing is like I mean,
in the whole visa scenario and the mess that is happening,
people are, people have a lottery system to survive and stay.
And here there's a whole lottery system to like kill, kill, kill.

(06:26):
And this has more applicants than, you know, than the visa system.
I think, I think this is a good place
where that $100,000 fee actually makes sense.
Yes, actually.
You want to be hunter bear, you give us money.
Yes, I mean, and it's a win-win for the government as well.
Like people with that money,

(06:47):
they will probably apply for that permit.
And the government will earn a very good, like, you know,
couple of million dollars.
We have to take into account which government we're talking about
because the current one doesn't believe in climate change.
So I doubt, you know, they will have at the $100,000 for this.
But I mean, nobody hates money, right?
Nobody hates money.

(07:09):
Like even if they believe it or not,
if they're getting free money, like, 172 times
$100,000 or whatever number,
even $50,000 or $20,000 whatever,
I don't know what this permit costs,
but I'm sure it might not be like $100,000 or anything.
But like, $1.7 million,
nobody hates money.
Government always need money.

(07:31):
So why not?
But it's not about the money.
It has to also be how much the government actually loves its animals.
Which reminds me, you remember,
oops, I think this was about a month back in one of our episodes.
Oops has, oops, I covered this topic.
Where it said that the Florida's black bears had just rebounded.
It had recovered after years of being almost in the verge of being extinct.

(07:56):
There were only 500 bears left.
It was a beautiful national geographic article.
And they said that now it's finally gone up to $4,000.
So is it too much or too less?
But is it a good enough number to actually propagate hunting again?
Yeah, that's my question.
And what's to say that, you know,

(08:19):
like other societies or other countries won't follow suit?
I quite, like hearing this,
I am afraid that there might come a day where somebody decides
a random number is good enough.
And then, like the hunters of India are like invigorated again.

(08:42):
And they say, oh, we want to hunt tigers again.
Or we want to hunt lions again, elephants again, or whatever.
I don't know.
But yeah, that, that, because I think nobody thought this day would come for,
like the black bears in Florida.
Yeah, but I think also, oops, I think it depends a lot where there's the gun culture

(09:03):
and the hunting culture as well.
Like the hunting culture doesn't really,
it's not something that's prevalent in, I feel like the least.
But that also, no, no, no, no, the hunting culture became non-privileent in the last 50 years.
Before that, hunting was like, like Maharajas and the landlords,
put out like posters, like took out ads and like international newspapers

(09:29):
to invite people to hunt in their little patch of course.
I think it was a very cream layer thing.
It was a very cream layer thing.
It wasn't, it came with privilege, it came with position.
It wasn't really like something down the thing.
Because I think again, hunting is not survival, right?

(09:50):
It was just a sport.
So, yeah, so which is why it was like for the cream layer,
it was for the rich and privileged, it was a sport that the rich and privileged probably thought which probably now is golf.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, but you know, you never know, like the rich and privileged might come knocking the doors of the Indian government,

(10:15):
you know, maybe the not the rich and privileged from our country,
maybe the rich and privileged from other countries may say,
let me hunt some tigers now.
But also, I'm afraid of it, but you know,
we'll have to cross that bridge when it comes to it, I guess.
Yeah, I think the main issue here is, okay,

(10:36):
even if like half of the applicants are hunt opponents,
but even if you're saying that there's 70,000 or 80,000 people that have applied for 172 licenses,
what do we tell about us as a species, as humans?
I mean, we're that glad thirsty that we want to take a gun out, shoot a helpless animal.

(11:00):
That's done nothing to you, like nothing.
And you get that whatever ego pride, you know,
there's this boost that, oh, yes, you know, I used a gun, not my bare hands, but a bullet, I shot it through it.
And then I killed this animal for just existing.
Yeah, I mean, I kind of get the thrill, you know,

(11:24):
the thrill of the chase and things like that.
But I mean, there are other game animals, smaller game animals that you can sort of hunt,
deer, boar.
I honestly feel the only time hunting makes sense is when you're a hunter gatherer
and you're actually hunting to eat it, not to just like show off,

(11:47):
you know, like, oh, yeah, I want it and this is my prize.
Like, for the viewers to do not know when you go and actually hunt a big animal in Africa,
it's actually called a trophy, like a trophy animal when you hunt it.
And you can cut the, you know, the head off and you can get it on a plaque.
So it literally is like a trophy or like, you know, something to show off,

(12:11):
like a metal look at this animal that I've killed.
And I don't see the appeal for how it can be something that you can be proud of.
It's not something you achieved achieve.
Like you've literally just been on a vehicle probably or somewhere,
taken a gun and shot.
The only thing that can be uploaded for is your aim, but nothing else.

(12:32):
And like, no, I can, I kind of understand the appeal.
I kind of understand the appeal of tracking down and killing
larger, larger animal or are more powerful being than us.
I understand the appeal, but like so many other things that we've had to control

(12:58):
and the urges and all those other other things we have to control
and sort of curve down for living in a socialized and civilized society.
This is one of those things that we don't really require it.
There are a number of games that are available, video games,

(13:20):
instead of spending whatever money to get this permit,
spend it on a VR headset of some kind,
get a game that works well with VR and just hunt like that.
You know, you get some pretty realistic guns and weaponry
and all those different kinds of things that you can sort of use to simulate

(13:41):
that a hunting experience sound and all those different things.
And they're like, you know, game, you know, shops and game parlors out there as well
which sort of you don't have to buy everything you just can to walk in there
and sort of have that feel for yourself.
There are dishes like that.
I want to know from you, Ops, what is the appeal?

(14:05):
The appeal is like,
it's the same as, you know,
being in that scenario of hunting or in a war scenario.
Like you have almost 50% or more than 50% of the top line video games are FPV games

(14:31):
which basically means first person's shooter.
No, no, no, no.
I was asking, like you said,
you understand the appeal to, you know, to go chase an animal and...
Yeah, it's the same appeal as to kill another human.
Like to kill anything, any living thing,
to hunt and kill an outsmart, any other living being.

(14:53):
So are you saying it's like...
It's a very primal appeal in my opinion.
It's like anger management.
I don't know what it is.
I don't know what it is, but all of us, like a lot of people play these games.
I have played these games and when you're like aiming at the correct people,

(15:16):
like your opponents, it's, yeah, it's a good time.
Like, like, Call of Duty and PUBG, all those, yeah.
Like, all the top of the, like, top selling the AAA,
AAA is the rating for the top of the line video games,
computer or console or anything.

(15:37):
And all the top of the line AAA games,
I think more than 50% are like FPV, which is first person's shooter.
So it's like, you know, there's something about it.
There's something about it.
And that's what I'm saying.
Companies, game developers should develop more games
if this is a niche, like bare hunts or maybe some other exerting animals,

(16:00):
people want to hunt, you know, simulated, you know, technologies there already.
It's so weird though, but these games, you actually kind of hit and kill humans.
But when it comes to real life, it's never that way.
It's all animals.
But in the games, they actually want you to keep killing like the other humans.

(16:21):
Yeah. And it's also about skill, right?
You are very proud of your skill in the wild, like your hand-eye coordination,
your, you know, aim, like you were saying,
how far you can shoot that animal from,
because also animals are also trying to evade that,
because if you're hunting an animal which has been hunted for a longer period,

(16:46):
they will be shy and they'll try to evade you, they'll try to.
It's not easy, like, it's not like you go set somewhere
and just aim at something and you shoot.
You have to sort of put in a lot of effort into a kill.
So like an animal I'm talking about, like a game animal.

(17:08):
It's, yeah, that's the thrill.
That's the thrill.
I feel like it actually takes more effort to restrain
and let's just observe the animal or shoot the animal in a camera.
Why are camera, like just take a photo or a game?
Or even like take it, take it in through your own eyes.
I don't know if you remember there was this film called

(17:32):
The Secret Life of Walter Mitty.
And there was a scene there when Sean Penn,
when like Ben Stiller asks the Sean Penn character,
while he's not shooting like photographing that snow leopard
and he just says something, so just meant to be observed.
Things are not meant to be captured in any shape of form.
So, you know, there are, there are memes on that.

(17:55):
It says when, when bro forgets his SD card.
So he's making up excuses that, oh, you know, I'm not going to take the photo
because like, you make it like really poiled it.
No, no, it was a beautiful scene, but there are memes on that scene.
Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, I've seen those memes there, hilarious as well.
But, yeah, but I have felt this in the wild when I'm in the wild.

(18:18):
And you must have felt it too.
Like just observe it just in, I mean, shooting with a gun very far away concept,
but you know, try to shoot it with a camera or try to just observe it.
It's also very iconic or sorry, ironic, ironic, I think because I think

(18:39):
whoops likes to hunt.
I mean, I like the idea.
I like the idea of hunting.
I think it's something there inside a lot of people.
I like the idea of hunting.
I think with the bears, I don't know what the appeal is,
but with recently someone shared this article from New Zealand itself,

(19:05):
how in one of the best-calling competitions, it's doubled this time.
So like, you know, all the families and the kids get together
and they've gone out and found persons and they have actually shot them to death.
And they've made a pile at the end and taken a photo.
But I think we can talk about that next week.
But it's just like, wow, you can spread so much hatred to like, you know,

(19:29):
form a pile than actually, I don't know, but yeah.
Yeah, no, I think the appeal of the hunt is there.
And unfortunately, we'll probably have to keep that industry alive for a long time.
But we have specialized game animals that we sort of,

(19:54):
that are in abundance and that we sort of help to grow in numbers as well.
Because we want to shoot them later on.
We know we wanted to shoot them later on.
So I think this is one of those other industries like farming.
It's a much smaller industry, don't get me wrong.
But something that unfortunately exists and will probably continue existing.

(20:22):
But only the only thing that hurts me out about everything when we say that,
oh, there are enough numbers, let's do this.
Is that why are there enough numbers of every other animal and earth that,
oh, this is overpopulating, this is invasive, this is infesting.
Everything else is a nuisance except us.

(20:43):
Like, you know, for us, I literally read an article last week saying that the birth rate of humans has reduced to 2.1.
And we need a birth rate of 2.7 to sustain our population.
And I was like, bro, what are you talking about?
There are eight billion of us and it's projected to be like 11 billion and I don't know.

(21:04):
So, but like sustain hasn't sustained in terms of like 50 years down the line or 100 years down the line because it like we are at the peak right now.
And we'll keep growing and reach the top of this like we'll reach the summit.
But then after that it'll start falling, the graph will start falling.
So that's what people are, that's the falling curve is what people are afraid about.

(21:27):
But yeah, I mean, I'm afraid of that like literally going by how the planet is burning.
I think it's good if the curve is actually falling because I don't think we can survive that long as, you know, I mean, the way it's going.
People are going to find it harder and harder to survive on this planet.
Did you see that article? I think there's an article today about how Ganga has is like as it's precarious. No, like the.

(21:52):
Yes, I did see that.
Yeah. So climate change is hitting our left-rightened center. We don't want to accept it.
But I mean, we're actually like, oh my god, there are campaigns in countries saying please have more babies.
Please have more babies. Please have more babies. And then for every other animal, we're like no, no more babies, no more animals.

(22:13):
We're going to kill you and your babies.
But yeah, yeah, no. So if we'll, if anyone is listening to this out there who works at a game development company,
this is a good idea. And we're giving it away for free.

(22:34):
This is a good idea for a game. Just build a game with like these exotic animals.
People can hunt and build it realistic. Like we have the technology right now to build it and, you know, keep like, throw it out in the open.
And there might be some, you know, smaller titles already available. So yeah, check, check those out.

(22:56):
I think far better than trying to kill whatever number of bears, like 2015, 300 bears were killed.
I don't know this time. At least 172 will be killed.
I actually want you to know, like is the permit on a day basis or is it per bear basis? And how do they keep a check on how many bears are actually being killed?

(23:21):
Yeah, I think that is a good question that we might need to dig a little bit more for answers.
But yeah, I think there is, there must be some, okay. So sorry, just on a side note, the permit costs $100 for a familiar residence and $300 for non-resident.

(23:51):
What the actual hell is that number? We were talking about $100,000 and now it's like $100.
Like any era that took a time to apply for that permit.
But I think that is why there are around 160,000 permits right? If there was a big fees on it, the permits would automatically reduce because people are like,

(24:14):
oh, I can just pay $100 and kill a brown bear. Why not?
Yeah, so Florida, please stop this. And if you can't stop this, or if you don't want to stop this, make sure that people are not killing five bears on one permit.

(24:39):
Make sure people are killing only $172 bears total if all the $172 permits are issued to people who actually want to kill bears.
But stop this.
Yes, the idea of scenario is to nod to it. And I mean, a month back, what we read was still thinking about it. We did not know it would go through.

(25:03):
So we were still talking about how there was opposition for the hand and for the hunt and that, you know, they were talked about the hunt, but we were hoping that no, the hunt on for sure.
So this is a little disheartening to note that the permits were actually like on sale or on display as you know, the process has already started.

(25:26):
Yeah, cool. Play a game, guys. Play a game.
All right. What are we talking about next?
Okay, so the next topic that we're talking about is that animals that spread seeds are critical for climate solutions.
So there's new research analyzing over 3000 tropical forest sites that reveal that areas with fewer seed dispersing animals store up to four times less carbon than forest with healthy wildlife population.

(25:59):
The study found that 81% of tropical trees rely on animals to disperse the seeds and ancient partnership now threatened by human activities such as deforestation, road construction and hunting.
Oh, very, very connected the two stories.

(26:21):
Yeah, and researchers mad maps are here, we search as map global seed dispersal disruption, concluding it explains a 57% reduction in carbon storage potential across proposed forest restoration areas.
This underscores the absolute vital role animals play in maintaining healthy carbon rich tropical forest and their ability to mitigate climate change as lead author even fric notes when these animals decline the climate mitigating power of forest weekend significantly impacting global efforts to combat climate change.

(27:00):
This is like the dispersal like it's such such an important important aspect of any ecosystem.
We don't pay it.
We don't need again plants can't talk we don't relate to plants that much so we don't see how this happens.

(27:25):
This is like an invisible process to us but see dispersal is so important like that's the lifeblood of any ecosystem in my opinion.
And I think the thing that humans don't realize is that inside a jungle that you do not disturb everything goes like a clockwork you know the animal eats this or this animal is eaten by this animal and then it poops this or it takes this there or it feeds here and then it creates a cycle that makes the forest also thrive and the animals also thrive.

(28:01):
And there is like no need for any you know there's no there will be whatever disease is inside the forest but nothing new like they're not exposed to new things and you know they just they just exist beautifully together like you know they're not having anything that's unhealthy so there's nothing where anything that can impact the forest and actually take away its power of maintaining that block work but as soon as the human.

(28:28):
You know influence comes in and then it starts impacting then it impacts everything because the animals and the trees the flower and fauna they live in harmony so you're kind of breaking the harmony to reach your end goal.
Yeah yeah and any sort of and it's that that that that harmonious cycle it's not very fragile so if you think if we think that is fragile it's not as fragile as we think it's only because we have exploited it for such such a long period of time it has become such a fragile thing now where it's not a problem.

(29:14):
So there's only little thing can trigger this devastating change and it's only because of the year after year exploitation that has taken the ecosystems to that place.
The thing is that there was no mapping earlier of you know what human activities that research on what human activities do and how much impacted causes is something that's very recent you know from the time that we actually care about the climate which which I would say is no more than 10 15 years old like when we were growing up we were not talking about climate change but we talk about it now.

(29:52):
I've shared the article it's a manga be article and you can see this tapir there's a photo of a tapir and if I've told down it actually shows the tapir and the seeds that it disperses so you can see the sizes of the seeds it disperses and like really tiny seeds to really big seeds so even though a tapir is not a bird it's a land animal and even the land animal is a bird.

(30:22):
There's like a huge huge seed disperser because it's taking the seeds and going to far away places so birds obviously have their own special place in the ecosystem but even the land animals that are herbivores and feed on the fruits and disperse the seeds they're equally important.
Yeah elephants you know they're very very important seed disperses every animal is which which eat is a herbivore I feel like they are can be a seed disperser in some shape of form just because they're consuming the fruits and the seeds do not get digested by any animal so yeah they will be very important.

(31:10):
They will be excreting the seeds most definitely.
Yep and the thing is that basically in the forest till you know you have your abundance when you're not disturbing it but if human activities happen then it might cause like death of animals it might also cause a disturbance so you know if we spoke about this a few months back in one of our episodes or one of her but I told you how there was this one study about trees at the forest fringes and trees.

(31:46):
So the trees inside the forest were like healthier and there was treated and they were growing like you know without any disturbance but the trees at the forest fringes the same tree was crooked it did not have a good look it was in thriving properly and it was something that was being exploited by humans for either wood collection or just because it was on the fringes and it did not have the same forest ecosystem it was not thriving.

(32:10):
So even if you just construct a road also it would alter the way that the tree survives and if there are lesser fruits that the tree gives ultimately it leads to lesser seeds being dispersed and it could also ultimately lead to lesser animals being born because there is no food security and ultimately there are lesser trees being generated like newer trees being generated so less carbon sink.

(32:34):
Yeah and that I think is the point of this article as well where they're saying that the capacity of carbon retention has reduced from ecosystems from spaces and that is one of the top things that is threatening our environment.

(33:04):
Right now so yeah it's I don't know if we see in the article it does say that there is one restoration project in Brazil called corridors for life which has restored connectivity to fragmentary forest in the Atlantic forest and many animals need connected forest to disperse seeds obviously.

(33:34):
I mean the animals would not want to venture out you know and put their life which is and what is the other forest.
Yes and like their migratory patterns like they're not like animals are not like picking up seeds and saying oh we want to disperse this today it's just a natural process right and it just.

(33:57):
It's just it is very easy to say oh the animals can go somewhere else but if you think think about yourself like if your routine is hampered then you'll be like you know out of it for the entire day or maybe two days.

(34:26):
So these animals they're so in tune with the migratory roots their travel roots and things like that if that gets hampered then they're they're just spreading the things right there which doesn't help you know you need that.
Long reaching spreading of seeds and long reaching spreading of you know different parts to different parts of the ecosystem for the ecosystem to be able to grow and thrive.

(34:59):
The thing is just like I think we spoke about in the ocean like if you're going to disbalance anyone animal or any one system you're going to disbalance the ecosystem here it's going to be the same cyclical effect.
You are going to target the trees it's going to target the animals ultimately producing fewer animals and then ultimately producing fewer trees so it's a it's a wishes cycle where you are putting the forest onto a dead bed by something as simple as giving a hunting permit or saying that let's construct one road you know at least we are still you know protecting the forest in the forest is but there's one road through it there need to be areas which are completely protected.

(35:43):
Completely protective and completely off from human interaction.
Yeah that I fully fully agree with that and we we have the we have the saying the port in English and Hindi which says you given an inch they asked for a mile.

(36:07):
So that is what has been happening essentially with like forest especially like forest like Amazon which we can't comprehend this comprehend the size of that forest and then we will like oh we'll take some more nothing will happen it's a huge forest oh we'll take some more nothing will happen it's a huge forest and then we end up taking everything and we don't even didn't even realize how did that all go away.

(36:35):
It's like spending your spending of salary you know it's the same same story from the pink peach you remember how everyone was taking just a little bit of sand it's the same thing right now everyone's like you know on the one hand it's actually my surprise from you on the one hand we say that oh our birth rate is decreasing on the other hand we have crazy development because now people want like bigger houses bigger cars bigger everything.

(37:05):
So there's like more pressure for more things and we're not happier with the smaller things like I think 50 years back when you hear your grandparents they were happy without any phones without any connection without traveling without anything and just the simple joys of you know going on a walk outside getting fresh groceries or growing your own food.

(37:28):
Spending time with your family like like everyone was happier even though you had lesser and now you have more but you're not happy you just want more in the what would you say in the pursuit of happiness yeah yeah it's that is what has been driving all these different things so I think what what I would say my

(37:58):
my view there would be a lot more research needs to go with the go in this a lot more protection of these people dispersing animals they need to be correctly identified they need to be ranked and yeah they some sort of a protection plan that is completely out of bounds as made now a setting saying should be set up you know no questions no

(38:27):
negotiations nothing but also these see dispersing animals it has the two full benefit as we found out like in not only protecting the sea dispersing animals but you're also protecting the ecosystems they help build and help maintain as well.

(38:48):
Yep and I think if we don't maintain we're basically losing out on the oxygen we need to breathe so I do not think we still understand that it's the same thing that we said a few episodes back that if trees gave by five we would be planting them everywhere too bad they only give the oxygen that we breathe.
Yeah that is a powerful powerful statement all right speaking of that I just want to give you some some news on the new species discovery front we are trying to do this bringing some new findings every week let us know how you think about this but eight new

(39:37):
eight new bee species discovered in Washington eight new bee species previously unexpected have been discovered in Washington state by University of Washington research scientist autumn mouse collecting pollinators in Chelen County for study on climate and wildfire effects mouse also documented hundred species new to the county

(40:07):
expert taxonomists helped identify the new bees mouse highlighted the critical implications for buyers diversity conservation stating it's difficult to conserve species when we don't know its name or native range
taxonomists differentiate bees using subtle morphological quality such as wing veins hair color and pollen carrying hairs scopa.

(40:35):
This discovery underscores the states rich yet often undiscovered insect diversity public involvement in bee research is encouraged through initiatives like Washington bee Atlas and platforms like I naturalists and I think this is why we bring you these kinds of news as well where scientific inquiry into these kinds of matter is very very important.

(41:05):
You want to choose another topic make that yeah and I think with the bees like they say that if the bees disappear the humans disappear so it's actually nice that there are eight new bee species and similar to that there's one more species that has been discovered a new species of finless snake yield named after canya kumari.

(41:29):
So researchers from India's national bureau of fish genetic resources and BFGR Cochie identified a new finless snake yield a practice canya kumari after rictus after rictus canya kumari discovered of the collicle coast at 100 meters depth via deep sea trawling okay that's that's a little disturbing that it was found by that but its name honest the kanyaku maris district culture.

(41:59):
It's a natural historical and geographical significance but those who do not know can yaku maris the southern most point in India and people usually talk about how you know you want to travel from Kashmir and the North to kanyaku maris in the South so it's honoring that area morphological analysis vertical counts and DNA analysis confirmed it as a new species and it's published in zoo taxa.

(42:28):
It's unique characteristics the head length of a 9.6 to 9.7% of the total length a golden yellow body a pale white head with yellow lines and three black blotches so let me just see if there's a photo of the finless snake e.
hmm yeah this is the eel yeah looks a little little weird but yeah it's a new species it's a new species yeah and all right yes do you want to take up the next topic I would love to okay

(43:16):
so belugas and marine land it's this is a what what what does it sound like it sounds like a very adventure parky place so it does what it is the name is absolutely that yeah so marine land is asks federal government for permission to export remaining

(43:45):
belugas this news is from cbc marine land the closed amusement park in Niagara Falls has applied for federal permits and people most of the Niagara Falls is in Canada so don't don't don't get surprised there has applied for federal permits to export its 30 remaining

(44:13):
blue govils 30 that's that number is staggering but anyway the final decision rests with the fisheries minister Joanne Thompson who stated it will be based entirely on health of the whales what a politically correct statement to say and I watched a video clip as well where she says it it's it's such a you know it gives me the ink

(44:41):
potential buyer chimelong ocean kingdom in China again sounds very adventure parky and ocean kingdom me but is reportedly still deciding on the purchase the park did not open the season feeling concerns for its animals especially since 19 belugas have died since 2019 wow

(45:10):
wow okay a 2019 Canadian law prohibits exporting cetaceans unless it is in the animals best interest okay again me now will have a lot to say about that but last marine land beluga export in 2021 to a US aquarium resulted in three of the five whales

(45:39):
dying within two years what do you think being that I I think this is this is really really difficult one because obviously belugas are these whales that are only found in really cold area so we already have very few belugas to begin with
secondly with the belugas it's one of those catch 22 situations here because then the marine park is closed so they have to pump in money to take care of these belugas that are in these big huge pools

(46:14):
but they do not have a century and also there is not enough information to tell us how many of these belugas are actually born in captivity
so since there is no century we do not know if they can adapt in the wild so even just leaving them out in the wild is also putting them to certain depth but transporting them to another captive area I don't know thousands of miles away is not a great solution either because if you're just transporting it into the neighboring country US

(46:45):
and it has resulted in the deaths of three out of five belugas due to the stress then we do not know how many whales would actually be alive by the time they make it to China and would this survive in the same kind of climate
yeah yeah I mean I have doubts that you know even if if one survives that would be like I'll be very surprised that long of a trip and you can see the size of the pool this is like a human sized pool and then there are like however 30 belugas living in that pool

(47:33):
yeah it's not great it's not great and I think marine parks are similar in its appearance however big you make it you can't replicate the sea obviously
and so I think I think the need of the hour here is that the government instead of trying to push and see if they can send them to China try to push and see if they can actually create a century in the ocean for them

(48:06):
like any kind of codon space that they can actually release the belugas and test the water and see if they're able to survive in the century and then open it up so that they can maybe mingle with their wild neighbors but that is the need of the hour instead of being like ok China you give me money and I will send these you know whales to you
and I think down in the article there's actually it's hard for me that this stuff and I think people the volunteers are still coming to feed and take care of the belugas because the park is shut down so there has to be some kind of you know

(48:41):
help or some kind of support required to sustain these belugas yeah 100% 100% and like these these belugas like obviously because they're in a captive environment you need a lot of work and you'll be able to see on the screen how they're being fed and how they're being maintained

(49:07):
obviously the pool leads to be maintained as well the pool looks gross from the looks of it is just is covered with some sort of algae or something down at the bottom but the pool will lead maintenance the belugas will need feeding and those sorts of things

(49:28):
and even though the park is closed doesn't mean the belugas can be neglected so make the races a very good point very good point I mean yeah these if you have the resources to actually try to export them then you have enough resources to just create a pen in the ocean a century

(49:53):
have the same people who were probably employed at the marine park get them training of how they can monitor the century and then see if the belugas are able to thrive in the open waters not really open but you know closed open waters let's say that and like a pen see pen yeah like a see pen like you know because you have these you know you have the salmon salmon or pens as well in the ocean so you can have a huge pen like not a small one but just a huge pen

(50:22):
and at the boundaries of it you can always have the you know you can see and you can maybe have some way to have small holes through it so that fish are coming in and going yeah I mean we have we have figured that kind of stuff out long long back so I think the technology is already there it's just the intent that's not yet there

(50:45):
and I think I understand the tips because I'm in the government would not want to spend more money because it's not getting any money but with China it's probably getting money because China that I will pay you this much for the 30 belugas but so they were saying you know when I can get more money to just send these whales away instead of spending all this money to try to protect them and try to see if they will survive they would take the easier way out it's the same thing like the hunting but hasn't Joanne Thompson said it will be entirely better than the

(51:15):
based on the health of the whales quote yes but it doesn't say in the interest of the whales in the health of the whales so she'll do a health check out he'll say the whales and healthy let's send them to China
yeah that is yeah I'm pretty sure that is how it will go yeah yeah I actually think I mean as science communicators or wildlife communicators we we would probably not think how the entire

(51:47):
masses think even between me and maybe like you and our friends they would be like oh you know they're just like these 30
whales in the aquarium why would anybody want to spend that much money on them but not everyone thinks of trying
to save them and protect them right and in a democracy it's like everybody's money right people will be

(52:10):
like why are you spending my money on this worthless thing for for for the group of people who for
whom this is a worthless thing to do just build a sanctuary and whatnot and if his history something to
go by those people out out number the people who actually think the sanctuary would be a good idea

(52:34):
again hypothetical but I'm certain that that that might be very well I'm also worried like you know
let's say that we make a sanctuary and then they they thrive in the sanctuary so they're like okay let's
take the sanctuary off let them survive in the wild but these the lookers are really really used to like

(52:55):
being around humans and interacting with humans so my only worry is if they see a boat and they come
towards the boat to actually interact with the humans we do not know what the interaction would be
like would they would it lead to more boat strikes because they would associate both with humans and
they would want to go with the human species can but there will be a lot of you know different
cheaper cushions to actually releasing them in the world and the lookers are really smart animals and

(53:19):
they you know anyone who's seen a beluga in the in one of these sea world kind of aquariums
they really interact and with their trainers or their caretakers so I think that's all
all cetaceans in general very smart very interactive very fond of humans once they get to know us

(53:46):
and I think we had we had tried this with Gekko the famous you know Kilaweil from the film three
really we had tried this to release it into the wild we had tried numerous times with like negative
reinforcement around boats like you were saying boats are bad now boats are bad now if you come near a

(54:12):
boat you don't get any reward you stay away from the boat you get a reward or something like that
but ultimately that project although it was successful for a shot shot while ultimately
Kiko died in the wild so and and he sought human interaction whenever he could like there's this

(54:45):
beautiful story of him going to a remote village beach in Auckland sorry why did I say Auckland
Iceland and and this family who lives by the shore spending this wonderful day with Kiko

(55:09):
swimming in the ocean and then sleeping to the sound of Kiko playing in the ocean and breathing
and then I think the next morning waking up to find that Kiko is dead or something like that I'm not
remembering fully there's a beautiful podcast from New York Times on on this this whale and it's

(55:32):
release and the movement that followed but yeah I think beluga's are the same so I think while
what doing what trying we also need to be extremely careful of releasing this these captive beluga's
back into into the wild as well which is which is why the sanctuary has to be like a long

(55:58):
drawn experiment to just check and then it will require a lot of money it will definitely because it
needs research and money drinking and it needs a cordoned off space yes which most people do not like
because you know even if whatever amount of ocean or water belongs to you people don't like to

(56:19):
invest the money into it because it is so much more money to something that you cannot surveil
you know like do the surveillance of easier yeah yeah yeah it's it's a very complicated and difficult
predicament these whales these belugas are in yep and so we we want to keep track of this story

(56:50):
and we will let you guys know what happens ultimately but I think my hunch and oops the hunch is
that they will be probably sending them to China however they do I do not see a very you know
amazing update on this I still think it's going to be very bleak but talking about relocating
animals and exporting animals and importing animals we can go to the next topic what do you think

(57:14):
yes yeah the next the next topic is that there are eight to ten cheaters a new batch expected to
arrive in December India's cheater reintroduction program with welcome eight to ten new cheaters in
December from Botswana or Namibia with another batch anticipated from Kenya next year Botswana and

(57:37):
Namibia are prioritized due to successful past transactions from similar South African
systems India is simultaneously preparing two additional landscapes noradee wildlife
century and bunny grasslands Madhya Pradeshan Kujra expanding the total to four alongside
Kuno National Park and Gandhi Sagar wildlife century the December arrival will likely go to Kuno

(58:02):
or Gandhi Sagar while Bani grasslands are being ready for the Kenyan cheaters currently India has
27 cheaters 11 translocated adults and 16 born domestically across Kuno and Gandhi Sagar
15 cheaters are pre-ranging predominantly in Kuno officials also anticipate new birds of Gandhi

(58:22):
Sagar following the recent introduction of a female to two males before this episode you know when
we were scripting and we were coming up with this topic me end up said a very heated debate but
I think this is exactly same like the Balugas but in this case we are not bound and we're not

(58:44):
in a helpless state that we need to have this you know codoned off area or a sanctuary for the
Balugas where in that in that situation we had to had to in this situation we don't need the
cheaters but we still have these areas and for people who do not know who know and other places
that have been cleared with the cheaters there have been human settlements that have gone past

(59:08):
there are animals that can use that space because you know there's like 1.4 billion people here
there like a lot of animals with cramped spaces like a lot of wildlife with cramped spaces
we will not relocate the lions that are cramped up in Gujarat but we would bring cheaters to
another country and give them space I kind of see this as

(59:34):
as not not so much of a relocation again I kind of get your point as well where you say you know
this is not unnecessary but I also see the other side where I see this as a huge long term experiment
where we are seeing if the niche that used to be fulfilled by Asiatic cheaters still exists and

(01:00:03):
if that niche can be re-fulfilled I think there are a few things obviously here Asian and African
cheaters were different they are different and they've grown up in different environments and
different kind of climate primary re-bacuzation Africa separated some part of time so the same
animal that can exist on two different continents would have a lot of differences now there's a lot

(01:00:27):
of recess to also tell how much difference there is and diet and climate and existence and everything
just because no but Asiatic cheaters also survive like they are there right now in Iran right so
they live in like deserts sort of arid landscapes basically maybe in Iran same very same

(01:00:51):
but they are Asiatic cheaters as well yes but in Iran they might have been
compelled to live in a desert and grew up in a desert but in India whatever hunting stories we know
they actually were hunted and forest not in the deserts oh no I don't think that's that's correct
I think they used to live in the arid grasslands of like kutch and gojrat and

(01:01:16):
things like that they were not co-existing I don't think they were co-existing with like deep deep deep
like evergreen forests that's that's the information I have um I don't think they were they were
they were ever in like they were in grasslands but they were not in like deep deep forest because

(01:01:39):
they are not very tall cats so the problem is that they were extinct almost 34 years back we do not
have a lot of information as well because there's a lot of documentation or research back from there
yeah but I think both that's so the Asiatic cheater I think the difference is I think there are

(01:02:02):
a little bit um a little bit bigger in size they have a lot more mane compared to African
their African cousins the speed is still there the shape the face structure they're still there
and I think they're like desert grassland arid ecosystems that's that's where this is a wife

(01:02:29):
and I think one of the things that we actually did and this is why you know I think with the bears
also we've been talking because we drove the cheaters to extinction not only because of agriculture or
you know um taking up their habitats but also because of hunting the cheaters were hunted by the
royalty and the last cheetah was hunted down by royalty um and this happened in 1952 I think 1947

(01:02:56):
1952 whatever the the time period was but back when hunting was prevalent in India and hunting was
one of those activities that the rich sought out to do it caused the extinction of cheaters now
hope says that there is a niche that we have to fulfill but if there was a niche we would have seen
some kind of disturbance or we would have seen some kind of um area or something that we had to

(01:03:23):
now at the same time when we're trying to fulfill an niche we don't do it by codoning of the
animal in a century I personally think of we would never actually release that like we don't know
if there is a problem because we have not investigated it like it won't be as obvious

(01:03:43):
no there are two there are two there are two things here one where there is no immediate
problem that we see any niche that really needs to like we don't see it but there might be an
underlying problem is it urgent enough to bring cheaters from another country which are not even our
cheaters that we broke the exchange but why do we want to wait till like the last moment to

(01:04:06):
why do we need till it becomes urgent that is my question we do not need the cheaters secondly
secondly these cheaters are just going to be like those bellugas that can never be released into
the world because they do not know the systems here they are not they're not um you know aware of
the climate the temperature the predators everything changes the predators everything changes here

(01:04:26):
will they actually be able to survive I mean one two predators don't change there they have lions
here they have lions there they have leopards here they have leopards only thing that changes they
might come in touch with the tigers but I'm sure they will figure it out they will come in touch
with the wild dogs which are the dingos they will come in I mean there are wild dogs in Africa

(01:04:48):
yes but not everywhere not everywhere that means the wild dogs are again they are in contact with
cheaters cheaters know about wild dogs yes but not everywhere that is what I'm talking about I mean
African wild dogs are painted wild dogs are bigger than what I'm talking about is that it depends
on which country they're coming from which country have those kind of predators here dingos are

(01:05:13):
across a lot of forests especially in the south like dingos are very very prevalent so you know it
depends on what kind of things you're situated you used to so it's one of those things like like
you know I was talking about in South Africa when you have a private century you want to bring
these certain animals and place them in a certain way we're we actually do mean a doll

(01:05:36):
dingos are in Australia right oh yes sorry my parents it was a doll the dolls are wild dogs yeah
I'm so sorry dingos are in Australia it's a doll but with the Cheetah project it's more like a
showpiece again the same same thing that for everything else we just want to have this
showpiece item that oh yeah we have cheaters now in India it literally is adding zero benefit to

(01:06:00):
anything not to the humans not to the wild animals um they are lions but consider it just an experiment
but why why can we let the cheaters free roam in Africa itself where they belong I mean they are free
roaming we don't they are why not both again it's like you know you're asking why I asked why not

(01:06:21):
I'm okay I'm saying why not because it is just a zoo with the name of a century if you're putting
them in a big zoo you're taking wild animals relocating them like why do you feel they can't be
released they they they certainly I'm sure like in the next 10 years they will be released okay I'll
tell you so there's this hole which that is why I picked up a total of 20 cheaters this is 8 from

(01:06:45):
Namibia in September 2020 2 and 12 from South African February 2023 were brought to Kono since their
arrival 8 adult cheaters 3 females 5 male have died 17 cups were born with 12 surviving so there is
this death rate that is not brought out to the public and public feel that oh if the cheaters have

(01:07:06):
brought in no but is that death rate on par or more or less than the cheaters in Africa yes definitely
because is it on par is it less or is it more now it is more in India because the adults have died
so in in the wild in Africa the cheaters that are prone to dying and mostly the cups the cups

(01:07:27):
are the least survival rate because they have they're predated by all the other animals when they're
really young even something like an eagle and a waltz chicken predate on them with a really young
but the adults are not predated upon easily because they have their agility and the strength they
can be predated upon but it's usually the cups here the cups are protected but because of the stress
of you know relocation a lot of adults are lost and their lives are lost so you are stressing the

(01:07:54):
animal but we don't know if it's the stress of the location like is there any research on it is
there any statistic that why did you not why did you not question it when it talked about the
beluga's then why did you not question it then because they're in a captive environment no but
they were they were relocated and then they died they were not dying in the green light because they
were they they come they were transferred from a captive to a captive environment yes and they

(01:08:21):
might have been transferred in a vessel and they not might they must have been transferred in a
vessel that is not a sea vessel like like nothing can be transferred through water right the whole

(01:08:42):
point is that when they transferred them when they transferred them they would have taken at most
care because it was money being involved when you talk about captive animals and when you talk
about amusement parks or these sea world kind of aquariums there's more money involved than
something like this where India is spending money to bring cheetahs in now my my point are two

(01:09:04):
three things we need India is not a country that spends a lot of money on its wildlife there are
areas it does spend in but like project tiger and all but a lot of other animals do not get
the same kind of privilege or the same kind of treatment or the same kind of protection there is
if the same kind of money that is being found to experiment to see if cheetahs can survive the same

(01:09:28):
kind of money can actually go into protecting and expanding the forest ranges for other animals
instead of animals that do not belong here have never belonged here you know and then we have
other animals like the lions which are like cheetahs belong here cheetahs have only been extinct for
like 50 years 75 years now if you say 1950 but either way those were different cheetahs we've spoken

(01:09:54):
about it it's not the same cheetah it's not the same cheetah the cheetah missing hasn't caused
anything like even research that has happened recently then nobody has actually advocated to bring
the cheetahs anyone in the wildlife field will tell you that no we did not leave cheetahs we do not
need to spend that kind of money for a showpiece it is literally a showpiece I feel like that's

(01:10:20):
somehow not the case I feel like it's an experiment and I'll stand by it it's an experiment it's a waste
of money it's a waste of and experiments are what's doing no I think see I think that way if you
would you like if I just sent you to Australia in the middle of aboriginal tribes and you had to just

(01:10:42):
stay in a closed expend you know pen with them just because they want you to experiment on you
but humans don't don't don't live that way no I'm just saying how would you like it hypothetically
like hypothetically give me an example where you are not really uncomfortable let's say you because
you are not like which can actually happen like which can actually happen in a human world give me

(01:11:07):
such an example like which can actually happen but someone kidnaps you just to see
you know just to do some kind of medical experiments on you because they think that you know why
should we not like you know it's an experiment would you be good with that if it's legal then
I think yes but if it's illegal then you know this is not illegal right no but the

(01:11:35):
legality of anything and everything is decided by humans so that is the ironic part of it so what
you're talking about is that you know obviously humans when it comes to animals we would say yeah
like bring these animals here put them in a small space and let's call it an experiment
and let's say if this experiment turns out to be good I'm just thinking if this experiment turns

(01:11:57):
out to be good then it will be such a beautiful thing I will have this new species if the niche has
expired it will have created its own niche and we'll have its historic range restored now there are
now there are a few problems now obviously Cheetahs what they say is that agriculture has you know

(01:12:21):
decimated their population along with hunting and everything so if Cheetahs say in
added fry areas they are in like direct conflict with humans not even like the forest if they're in
dry added presence then in direct direct contact and no human would want to Cheetah roaming around
so this is going to be the worst kind of experiment there is nothing beautiful about it

(01:12:42):
and I think oops doesn't realize you know what he thinks is everything is science so let's do this
but he doesn't see the impact of it he doesn't see the waste of money I do do do agree with the
contact human contact yeah you don't see the waste of money you don't see how it is useless to
bring in Cheetahs here while you have a lot of animals that need that survival again it's the same

(01:13:05):
thing like you know how up last time said that oh why should we not go to Mars and I said why
should we not protect what's here so it's the same argument from last time that I would always
say what is local first concentrate on that instead of going for something that is not local you
do not have to spend that kind of money because money is limited and conservation the money is

(01:13:27):
extremely limited so you have to pump that money into wildlife that already exists instead of
wanting some other wildlife that exists some other place we need that money here to be pumped
into a lot of projects if you talk to wildlife researchers in India everyone will tell you how
they are bound by the less amount of money that the government pumps into their projects

(01:13:49):
I think the money part I can agree with I don't know if this is the same money being used for
the main conservation budget and the Cheetah budget the Cheetah budget I feel like they would have
a separate budget but anyway we don't know that yeah I money part I do agree with
but there is better spaces and better ways to spend the money and the Cheetahs are just going to

(01:14:19):
be kept in that century it will always be that area the maximum they can do is probably monetize
the entire safari so that people can go and watch the Cheetahs in the century but I doubt and I
highly highly doubt it will ever be a wild release I mean I mean yeah that's you're taking this huge

(01:14:44):
area in a country that's already extremely overpopulated has a lot of animals that come into direct
a human animal wildlife conflict and you are taking people settlements out now Puno and all
had like these villages they actually took or displaced the villages to create these areas for the
Cheetahs so at the end of the day it's a loose loose situation it's not a win win for the Cheetahs

(01:15:06):
it's not a win win for the people and it's definitely not a win win for anyone like even with
the money for the government so I don't know who is winning in the situation yeah I feel like
yeah that's
yeah I don't know I still feel like yeah those those resources and versus

(01:15:36):
you know conservation conversations so it's only like this so if you have completely agree with
yeah so I'm just giving you an example like if you have 100 rupees and there are four animals that
really need sailing that stay close to your house would you rather save them or would you say

(01:15:59):
that no let me bring like this exotic animal from another country and spend that 100 rupees there
yeah and this is this is the this is the problem with yeah I think we have to sort of follow
follow along and it's not just with wild animals I mean we spoke about it I'm just facing

(01:16:23):
some technical difficulties where I am not able to hear a magna on my end for some reason I'll
just give this a quick refresh and magna you can probably sort of keep on speaking for a bit
okay I think this also kind of resonates with the theme topic we spoke about a few weeks back

(01:16:49):
so when we spoke about the the dog population so in India people are obsessed with breed dogs so
there are these breeds that cannot even survive here like a key chance and huskies but those breeds
exist in this country only because people want them so instead of trying to save the local
population by adopting them we want all these exotic breeds so I think the same thing translates to

(01:17:14):
wildlife as well like we do not want to respect what is local we do not have enough kind of you know
satisfaction with everything that is local so we go for anything and everything that is not local
so it's kind of it's kind of too edged it's not even too edged I would say it's just a

(01:17:37):
it's just an area not worth exploring because there are these
cheetahs that probably were free-ranging roaming having the best time of their lives in
you know what would you say in Africa wherever they were they were surviving in the wild they were
in their climate in their environment and they were just snatched from there brought to this

(01:18:01):
country and now they're kept in like a small space and then we call them free-ranging like there are
some free-ranging cheetahs like free-ranging chickens like you know how so yeah I don't know I still
believed in the spirit of the experiment and if this goes south then you know this goes south yes we

(01:18:30):
have translocated few cheetahs we can return the remaining ones back to Africa but we have given
it a try we have given it a try to build a population of cheetahs in India and we can expect in a
in 10,000 years or so this population will be become a different species in 10,000 years or so

(01:18:58):
I don't think the earth will exist there will already be a mass extinction and something else
exists that I mean humans might not exist earth might keep on existing so but there might be different
animals if there's a mass extinction yeah could be either way the cheetahs cheetahs are live animals
they're not like ping pong balls that oh you send them here we'll see if they survive if they don't

(01:19:22):
survive you take them back oh no no I think they might survive you give them back to us
yeah um I mean expect that unfortunately that's how experiments work but this in this case it is
with live animals and life um live for just in this case I mean a lot of scientific experiments

(01:19:45):
of people didn't know happened with live rats and live dogs and live monkeys and live whatever
animals so rats are like vermin rats and humans share 91% DNA but they are like
they are like 91% DNA how do we not respect them 91% DNA the reason why so many problems

(01:20:08):
but the entire premise of our research human based research happening on rats first is just
because we share 91% DNA so when we that is very misleading though that 91% is a very very misleading
it is true check it no no no that 91% number might be true and is true I agree but that 91%

(01:20:37):
when we say it like that that means you add another 9% to the rats and they will become humans
that's not possible and that they won't even when we say like with chimpanzees or bunobu chimps we are
like 98% similar what are you saying like you you add 2% DNA in them and they will become humans

(01:20:57):
no no no it is very misleading and there's a very good youtube video which I will share
afterwards in the pinned comment they were doing things wait DNA doesn't mean your brain your
structure or other things DNA is the genome DNA doesn't mean anything like it just means how
like organs are formed and how they function maybe maybe yeah so DNA is just the the basic structure

(01:21:25):
of yourself or of the genome and so if the the basic structure is what we're talking about
we're not talking about how that even the basic structure I I can't fully remember the the paper
that went into this but there is a paper that actually sort of debunks this and they focused
on the chimped animal chimped human relationship and like chimped human sort of the comparison

(01:21:56):
that we make 98% of chimped like our DNA and chimped DNA are the same it's it's like having
and they give a beautiful analogy in that video I'll definitely link it down below at some point
but they say you have a script and maybe two letters of one line match with the same letters

(01:22:23):
of the other line but the rest of the lines don't patch and we take this fragmented letters
and say but but those two letters mean nothing if not for the entire context of the sentence um
so we take this this individual letters all over the genetic code and say oh 98% of the letters

(01:22:47):
match but these letters are randomly placed everywhere in the bleed genome and
it doesn't mean anything like 91% match but what does that mean like okay maybe some
shapes and organs are similar looking which is like most animals but nothing else
but the thing is I think oops uh while what you're saying is true the problem here is and uh

(01:23:13):
it's not even a problem but the thing here with at least rats is that um we actually do our experiments
on rats because the DNA is so similar so it can emulate before we do human trials so we do not do
human trials because we we know that if it works successfully in the rats it would work successfully
announced so we have that much confidence on the rats and then matching DNA with us that if it's

(01:23:36):
successful there it will be successful here so they are the scape-code they're the scape-ad
whatever it is but um but yeah so you know that 91% DNA definitely has some kind of impact because
if we are able to successfully test on them and then successfully test it's a it's a big big thing
yeah yeah no I mean I think that is that is correct in in those respects that we can sort of

(01:24:03):
determine the safety of some drugs on on the rats before we test do human trials um
yeah that is coming back to the topic um for me it's a big no-no that you know cheaters have to be
brought in just to be a showpiece that they would be in a century in an enclosed space that we

(01:24:28):
are spending all that money to keep cheaters in an area that um they are not local too and that
that area is on displaced human settlement land and land that could be protected for other wildlife
so instead of spending that money that time the resources um on animals that are already local

(01:24:51):
that we know thrive here that are great here we are actually bringing cheaters that would already
do ingrate somewhere else so for me it's a big no-no but what would say
yeah I think not not fully yes but I would also say like the experiment must go on if it's in a

(01:25:12):
reduced capacity that's fine too but yeah definitely prioritize the animals here uh but then
yeah prioritize this as well maybe not as much as the local animals but you know put some money

(01:25:33):
into this as well it's experiment worth doing any experiment is worth doing no I would say that
no I think any experiment that you want to do has to have some kind of motive object or long term
and if it doesn't then it's just a human but you can't before you do the experiment you can't tell

(01:25:56):
if it would have a positive or a negative or no but you can see the basis of it right like if I'm
doing this experiment is it beneficial at all like how would have things been invented if we
went into things thinking of the cost benefit analysis first and then experimenting no just

(01:26:17):
just the simple thing don't do we really need cheaters question mark before you do the experiment
like that anything and do we really need this uh or you know in in life in general do we really
need this question mark you say I mean did we need smartphones did we need computers we didn't
read them at some point but we have them now because of people experimenting I think in their

(01:26:39):
backyards and garages do we need books we did not for a long period of time now we have them yes
but think think about it this way there are things that we've done which have led to more harm than
good I mean we wouldn't know before we do them like uh uh wildlife with wildlife you still have

(01:27:05):
good enough eat idea because it's not an invention it's not an invention all that you've spoken
about are inventions not discoveries but with wildlife you're not doing inventions you're experimenting
with something else you're not really inventing a new cheetah I mean did we need like modified crops

(01:27:27):
I mean we did not need them but we can't survive without them now no we don't need them even now
the whole point I mean can you eat a banana with seeds you can't can you eat a grape with seeds
you can't wait a second um you don't get grapes with seeds anymore there no there are there are grapes with

(01:27:48):
seeds here and there are there are bananas with seeds here but is that the what what do what do
majority of the people eat no what do majority of the people eat now is the question exactly
so did we need them we did not do you know that there are seedless water millen in Australia

(01:28:09):
yes like babies don't have seeds do we need them we just don't we need them oh god I think that's
the thing that when it comes to human convenience and genital modification I do not agree with
no everything like everything that we have right now has come from experimentation so

(01:28:32):
to fill the human curiosity we do all these experiments so I think any experiment is what doing
as long as it's ethical and there is an ethics committee definitely sitting behind it ethical
by today's standards you can't like judge by tomorrow's standards or yesterday's standards ethical

(01:28:52):
by today's standards okay um again that brings me back to the same problem like uh when we had
these environment studies classes our professor used to say the environment department is actually
there to just pass or sign on all non-environment projects like projects like harm the environment
they're just there to sign in so they're not there to protect it so whatever is the law of the land

(01:29:17):
whatever is the law of the land like we have to draw some line somewhere like we can't take
the responsibilities of everything on ourselves like ourselves by as in main like scientists can't
take can be sure of this and this and this and this and they just want to experiment now

(01:29:37):
every other thing there are departments or there are people who have to do that and they have
to make sure that they do their job right no what I'm trying to say is that when it comes to
animals obviously the animals are not being in their opinions so it's just humans
I mean that's just a given the humans are deciding the laws the ethics and everything else

(01:30:01):
so it's the humans and it's not the animals that are actually being taken. I mean that's a given
right Magna that that's a given in any situation. I think if you do all you want to experiment
then we need to find a way like it like that's the beauty of human dialogue but where there will be
people with ideas such as yours which will put the animals like conversations like this and

(01:30:30):
points like this forward where animals are not vegan so should we really do this or should we
just let them be and there will be another group of people who will be putting in the opposite
view point and whichever viewpoint wins democratically will be there will be the law of the land.
See I personally feel if you're spending that much money into whatever we're doing with

(01:30:53):
wildlife the best kind of money would actually be to translate animal speech to human speech so
we understand I mean research about that is going on as well. So if you're able to crack that then
we can ask the animals exactly what they want and if they say the please do not shift me from
here to India then we have to listen to them. No but that would be a long process because the

(01:31:18):
first we'll have to explain what this means why we are doing it on a level that they are on par
with us but again that is a thought experiment. Again this could backfire because you can
manipulate the animals easily you can just show the positive and they are like dumb. No I'm sure like

(01:31:40):
if they can speak humans will be able to outsmart every animal out there I'm pretty sure of that
because we are manipulative and shunu. Yeah whatever be the reason we can gaslight them and whatever
be it be it but we'll be able to gaslight every animal out there I'm pretty sure of that.
That is because they are gullible and naive and like they are with a lesser brain that's that's why

(01:32:06):
No they they would they're just pure and we're shrewd and manipulative but being shrewd requires more
brain power does it not? Yes but that also will backfire because if the animals are trying to trust us
they cannot trust us. No they can't. I mean most most cases they can most cases they can we

(01:32:29):
are like again that's what I said like voices like yours is important but voices like
you know people who are advocating for these sorts of experiments and these sorts of different
you know kinds of exploring the natural world is important as well so yeah I feel any experiment

(01:32:57):
is an experiment worth doing and I'll start. So I am going to completely disagree with the whole
sheet I experiment with you. But how do we decide which experiment is worth doing you tell me this
that the cheetahs it was in your face that we didn't need it but what is the criteria?

(01:33:19):
Do we need it question mark? Like we didn't have anything I gave you like multiple examples
we didn't have anything. I'll tell me this. Tell me this you are not a big advocate of AI we
didn't need it right? Why do we why do we have it then? Because we wanted to experiment. That is
what I'm talking about like our thirst of wanting something. No I can't like I can be against AI

(01:33:45):
and I can advocate against AI but that doesn't mean it will stop happening it will still work.
I think the question is what words is need? Do you want it yes? Do you need it? No
that is the entire premise. So we have to talk about whenever we do an experiment do we want it
maybe the answer would be 150% yes but do we need it? Most times it will be 10%

(01:34:11):
Most times it will be no because we don't need anything because before we know before we see
what this this end product is. And it's great I mean you know what we say something you don't
know can't harm you. Exactly but so that's why we do all these experiments to know what can harm us
and what cannot. No we probably. And what can help us and what cannot. We probably. Why are we

(01:34:34):
researching Octopi where you know they can regrow their limbs because we want to implement something
like that enough. Yeah everything comes back to us but the whole point is when it actually comes
to bite you back that is when we actually realize that we do not need or we do not want this.
Now we are we we made these movies like I know go and other movies where we like to do the robots

(01:35:00):
are taking over and now we are at this place where AI is taking over people's jobs.
But that's what I'm saying like we can't stop experimentation experimenting because of those
things that's what I'm saying that's my thing like we can't say let's stop experimenting because

(01:35:21):
we have created some pretty dany unuseful things like we have created a TikTok let's stop experimenting
we can't say that like we will keep experimenting. I think the thing that you're missing the most out
of anything in this topic with the cheaters is that this is not an experiment. This is this is where
they want the cheaters as a showpiece. It is not even an experiment. It's where they just won't

(01:35:44):
it's like it's it wasn't there before there were never talks of bringing cheaters here. It's not
to fulfill something it's not to see if they fit in it's not for the cheaters it's for us and
our pride and our you know what do you say like like oh yeah you know we have one more trophy
that is my problem with the entire premise that if it was good for the animal okay I would be

(01:36:06):
110 person on board with it if it was like the last rino that was you know in a century and we
were trying to protect it yes but here it's not good for the animal it's not good for the humans
that were displaced it's not good for the other animals that meet that area it's not good for anyone
that is my problem with this experiment or it's not even an experiment to begin with so yeah

(01:36:26):
hmm I mean it's okay I think we can move on to the next topic because we will always agree to
disagree with the topic yeah we should agree to disagree yes but it's great it is great
um it's not cool cool cool cool cool cool cool cool cool what else what else do we have um

(01:36:57):
we can talk about the beaver reduction do you want to talk about another reintroduction or do you
want to talk about the the size of the wild animals and domestic yeah we can do that as well so
this is a report that was reported by FISDOTOG and it says 8,000 years of human activities have caused

(01:37:28):
wild animals to shrink and domesticated animals to go I mean given but a new study from the
University of Montpellier published in the proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences reveals
a significant impact of human activities on animal size over a thousand years researchers

(01:37:52):
analyzed over 225,000 bones from 311 archaeological sites in Mediterranean France
covering species like foxes rabbits deer goats cattle and sheep they find things
indicate that human presence has caused wild animals to shrink while domestic animals have grown

(01:38:17):
larger sorry I I thought for a moment it was the population size and not the actual size of the
animals but that is crazy it is the actual size did you when I told you about the topic that's what I
said yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I kind of sort of forgot forgot about that but it's the actual size of
the of the animals that has reduced very very intriguing very intriguing indeed and this research

(01:38:48):
fills a major gap in understanding how both human choices such as selective breeding and environmental
factors have influenced animal size over such prolonged periods scientists gathered data on climate
plant life human population density and land use alongside bone measurements to track these trends

(01:39:17):
and their drivers the study highlights the profound and diverging influence of human actions
on animal morphology that is very curious and I mean we kind of know that we have had this lasting
impact on on the natural world forever like whoever says that all the you know people 100,000

(01:39:56):
years ago had more days to pray to the nature or whatever I call bullshit we've already we've
always wanted us surroundings to be hum free and we have tried to achieve it by hook or by crook

(01:40:20):
so that's what I'm going to say on this so I think see I think primarily what has happened is
and this is what I think it takes thousands of years and years and years for like an animal's
shape and size to change and it must have changed because again food security and the environment it

(01:40:42):
is in so anything changes according to that so for domestic animals because they had a secure
parameter they were being taken care of they were being fed by the humans they were like okay I
don't have to worry about you know being fed even if my treatment is poor I mean at least getting food
you know doesn't matter if they're beating me or they're trying me or they're keeping me in like small

(01:41:04):
spaces but I'm getting a lot of food so because of the food and there is you know like like and
that's happened with humans as well like you know if you have easier access to food you would see that
I mean yeah we are animals as well like we forget that but yeah we are animals at our core as well
yeah so when we have food security or less anxious and you probably eat better your

(01:41:27):
your plumper and fatter than people who do not have access to it so it's the same thing with
animals and probably that over time and over time and over time was the change in their shape and
size yes I think that that again we're not we're not we haven't sort of fully understood the

(01:41:48):
science behind it as well we haven't sort of given we've only skimmed over the research paper
and the scientists who have worked on this might be able to tell us more but yeah food is a very
polarizing driving factor some of us might remember but who was on our last episode as a special

(01:42:11):
guest he was saying that about the macaques of Great Nukobar Island as well and yeah it's a polarizing
and it's a very you know swaying thing food and yeah we we kind of like everything we do is for

(01:42:34):
food and so does every other animal so yeah that might have played a big big role in this of
shrinking animal sizes how curious is that how curious is that and I think in the article
if you have shared the article already it says the research teams findings reveal that for around

(01:42:56):
7000 years wild and domestic animals evolved along similar paths growing and shrinking together
in sync with their shared environment and human activity which is really interesting for so 7000
years it was fine however all that changed around thousand years ago their body sizes begin to
diverge dramatically especially during the middle ages because we were civilized then we were

(01:43:23):
living in larger societies then and we wanted our chickens to be bigger cows to be bigger so
I think also like when we started I think we went into this in depth on last episode so go check
that out if you haven't already but when things started getting from sharing the same resources

(01:43:46):
available as the Jarwhas or other tribes in the andemons too to exploiting the resources
I think that's when things changed so if you had a bigger chicken you would get more money
and return for it so that means they're you have incentivized for the farmers to create a bigger chicken

(01:44:15):
it's not just I think you get more money but it feeds more people or it feeds like even if
clips say one person but do you think a farmer's that selfless like farmers thinking like that I don't
think so no I'm talking about from both sides you know it's like a win-win situation because if
you're growing a bigger chicken even it's not good for the chicken because the chicken cannot

(01:44:36):
stand on its own to it's like it will feed more people who is saying in a human perspective like
if they're bigger chicken like just observer like yeah from yeah okay I mean if you're growing bigger
chickens then it is something which is probably something that even the humans would go for you know

(01:44:57):
bigger size wings bigger size thighs bigger size you know so so it is something that is also
really lucrative for the humans buying it up a chasing it not just the people growing it
yeah yeah no but but like the incentive is that more money and you know you can sell it at higher
rates but it's very interesting to know how much impact we have on everything so once we started

(01:45:22):
reading and selectively reading which we know even with dogs and wolves what we've done I mean
you know we we've crossed bridge to the extent that we have we have breeds like pugs that have a
problem breathing just just regularly and and you are was who exist in
handbags yes yes so we've done a lot of we've done a lot of

(01:45:47):
in a birth a birth that nobody is scared of even if it barks it's head off
yeah so you know like my my friends here they have a pet shizu and sometimes he just doesn't like one
of the people and he would start barking but he just looks so cute barking that if you just like

(01:46:11):
you know like grab his face like he'll just stop for two seconds because he doesn't know what's
happening but he wouldn't do anything about it so I mean to imagine that a wolf is like that
you know when it barks you can just hold and grab it and be like oh it's okay um yeah we've done
some serious damage but uh yeah um yeah but this is very curious and now we have research

(01:46:36):
proving that this is the case and I don't think anything we can do about this but
yeah still it's basically we entered into the system we thought which animals should get more
priority in growing it's not about the treatment but it's more priority about which animals do

(01:46:56):
we need more than the others so the animals we didn't need obviously we started like raising down
forests creating pastures so the animals we needed got that kind of area and animals we did not
need did not have that area so they started struggling to survive and their bodies probably
automatically shrunk while the animals that were thriving in our environment they started

(01:47:19):
throwing because they were like why not we're getting everything yeah yeah I mean yeah so it was
it has been selective breeding and selective um selective preference being given to animals for
long long period of time um yeah it is such a curious curious and interesting uh sort of research

(01:47:48):
piece of research and yeah I don't yeah we'll have to see what kind of applications this has
or but it's a great research in terms of advancing our um our understanding our understanding of how

(01:48:09):
we have impacted the natural world cool um if you have time for one more topic then
yeah we do we do I would want to cover the pet sharks one before the
yeah yeah let's go further okay so um so this is an article from Monga Bay again and it says

(01:48:32):
pet sharks have become cool but is owning them ethical so shark ownership is a growing trend
no longer limited to the well-dee but now popular with middle-class aquarium hobbyists
a burgeoning industry serves this demand making smaller bottom dwelling species like bamboo
and cat sharks easily available online with some costing as little as 90 dollars even endangered zebra

(01:48:58):
sharks are sold for thousands however experts won the trend is harmful to the animals
they emphasize that most home aquariums are critically inadequate and too small for sharks
this improper confinement leads to severe consequences for the creatures including
stunted growth physical deformities and ultimately a shortened lifespan and premature death

(01:49:20):
whilst our owners find the experience coming the cost to the sharks welfare is significant
um and obviously the discussion question for this is where is the ethical line between
between admiring wild animals and owning them as status symbols
so I think it kind of ties up to the last topic because you know you're you're confining them

(01:49:44):
and this is actually leading to stunted growth physical deformities and a shorter lifespan
so this is talking about how we're impacting secondly I think we've spoken about sharks a lot
about how you know you need the predators in the water we need to stop taking them out we already
had these problems with you know shark finning it I mean just still in the water you mean the ocean
right they wouldn't survive without the water but you mean the ocean yeah in the ocean or the sea

(01:50:10):
what do I mean yes yeah yeah but I mean we're actually decimating wild populations and first
it was for food and you know for the pain soup and for the meat now we're actually saying oh let's
just keep them in an aquarium and you know oh I feel very good about it my experience is very
calming to see that sharks struggle inside the aquarium yeah I think aquariums yeah it's a

(01:50:41):
whole group of people for like aquarium you know efficientados hobbyists that say here hobbies
but yeah it's a whole group and they're very serious about their aquariums and they're very

(01:51:02):
caring of their aquariums but obviously these sorts of things needs a deeper understanding of
the science of the different characteristics of a species etc so yeah why not just buy the
species that are like specially rated for aquariums you know I don't know I think the thing also
that has happened is that let's say there are sharks that are available for 90 dollars that's

(01:51:27):
probably nothing so there was probably a time that these sharks were really expensive so not everyone
had them you know it was limited to the wealthy people but now with the purchasing power parity with
you know the kind of salary that you can get everybody wants to own everything you know whatever
the thought of was a dream is now reality so now you have like it's saying it's it's popular with

(01:51:53):
middle class aquarium hobbies so there these people who are now like you know okay if I can spend
hundred dollars and get a shark and when in my aquarium why should I not they do not see what
impacted us for the sharks so all the hobbies to have these aquariums or you know these kind of hobbies
they probably take care of their animals well but they do not see if it is actually in the best

(01:52:14):
interest of the animal to be in that confined space which is ironic you know because the care for
the animal but they do not care for the animal enough to see if it actually should belong there
and I think also there should be like strict guidelines around these things as well because
we know that if there are not then yeah we will do all these different kinds of things

(01:52:41):
whatever we need to do whatever we feel like doing basically so so yeah stricter guidelines around
these
what is okay yeah what is okay to own and what is not obviously sharks

(01:53:05):
probably are not but again there might be a criteria so that you own a big enough aquarium you
can probably own it but yeah what what giving that a shake from the league leaves perspective

(01:53:25):
as well also I think the thing with a lot of sharks that people do not understand is that sharks are
migratory patterns sharks do not just stay in one place if you go diving you would hear of you know
the local guides in the local diver is telling you that they you know there are seasons so there are
times when you see like hundreds of sharks in the same area and then they would just just go kaput

(01:53:49):
and they're not there and then they return back so sharks have migratory patterns and it's not
limited to one shark or two shark species all sharks are migratory in nature so when you put them
in an aquarium you're actually taking that entire aspect of their actual you know innate behavior
away from them you're not letting them explore you're not letting them migrate which is something

(01:54:11):
that they do and I think we're spoken about this earlier also it's the only two animals I actually
think that you know having domesticated to the extent that you can have them as a pet are dogs
in cats nothing else has been domesticated to that extent that you can have them as pets
hmm that is I've shared the hard and the photos so these are like these cat sharks that are in the coral

(01:54:39):
reef and these are a nurse shark that is resting among the coral reef and these are all different
kind of sharks this is a castle what we're going to shark also called a carpet shark because it
looks like a carpet but these are all like sharks that we have beautiful photos as well

(01:55:00):
yeah very beautiful photos and yeah so there are all these sharks so see these are these
appolic sharks that have been kept in one of the aquariums in Arizona and people are looking at
these medium-sized sharks to keep in their aquariums at the cost of the shark's health so you know
the shark would be there the shark might not live long and you're killing the shark and the

(01:55:24):
shark could have survived in the ocean and done its thing you know so we now have two threads to
sharks it's not just the fishing or the trailing or the meat or the fence it's also that people
want to own them hmm keep it on display and yeah it's a tricky one as well I feel like with the

(01:55:45):
legalies and with people's applying for 160 3000 permits for 172 available once it's yeah it's
a tricky one to curb that oh they have it why can't we have it um we'll give you money and you know

(01:56:08):
we'll get one so it's a tricky one but definitely definitely a lot of countries are doing it
you know getting these guidelines in place so that yeah you know sort of where to draw that line
where is the ethical run line ethical moral and also like you know ecological line to draw

(01:56:34):
yeah but I mean I highly doubt that there is any ecological line that we draw with a lot of animals
it's only when like there will be a few cat sharks left or a few zebra sharks left us when we'll
finally say oh you cannot own them anymore and then there'll be like illegal poaching and illegal

(01:56:56):
supply and illegal demand because we have already created that niche for it where we are telling
people it's okay to own them so there it will it will cause like a waterfall of problems starting
from here it's not going to be good for the sharks yeah yeah yeah no I think that's that's a great
point so we are reaching out through our throw to all the governments and all the people regulating

(01:57:27):
because there are some aquarium rules definitely most definitely for every country
to update those and to reflect that these kinds of species of sharks won't be allowed and take
some expert advice man take some advice from the actual experts yeah I

(01:57:58):
think that is that is the thing again like because animals are low on priority for us we do not want to
see if it's great for them or not we just want to see that you know that yeah if people have it so
they have it we only care about them when they're on the verge of extinction we do not care about

(01:58:20):
it before that and it's actually quite appalling to know that people want to own animals that do
not belong in that kind of a space but then it's not it's not surprising because we know that we want
things that we cannot have or we yeah yeah yeah that drive has I wouldn't like like that drive in us

(01:58:46):
wanting things that we can't have has caused a lot of development as well but in this case it's
a very bad thing so I think that's that would be our you know take a pill I I would in general just

(01:59:07):
I've never had an extra pill of aquarium to begin with because you know you're putting animals
that free roam huge areas of motion into a now obviously some people say that there are I haven't
either but yeah no I I'm sure a lot of people out there you know find it meditative

(01:59:28):
yeah that's what the word about yeah that is exactly the reason but I I mean I don't know some
people actually justified by saying that there are like a lot of fish now born in captivity so you
know they meant for aquariums but with the ice that is what I was saying like go get those fish man

(01:59:49):
like why are you trying to get all the yeah I mean I kind of know why but yeah it's it's a cycle now
they'll be created a cycle of captive fish by keeping the aquariums I'm never I mean I actually
go to these aquariums and I feel bad maybe maybe it's one of those things because you don't want to

(02:00:09):
go into the ocean because you're scared of the ocean let's bring a small part of the ocean and keep
it on your table maybe I know I don't get the point of aquariums as well
um yeah somehow I don't get it but if you listen to our show and uh you know it resonates with you

(02:00:30):
even a little bit then I mean please don't and if you have a strong opinion on any of the topics
we talked about let us know yes but but also please listen to our strong opinions and don't
keep sharks in an aquarium please let them be in the wild please let wild animals be wild um but uh
talking about that uh what is the most exotic that you have ever heard or what is the most exotic

(02:00:55):
fish you have ever seen in an aquarium please let us know in the comments and uh please let us know
what you thought of the show just like oops said if you haven't opinion on anything like last time
really appreciated the comment on the sharks and we um we gave the reply for it we spoke about how
you know India is still one of the biggest shark with photos so we we we love those kind of comments

(02:01:19):
that challenge what we are talking about so please do that and yeah we should sort of probably
draw an end to today's show right now uh goes without saying but to subscribe and follow on all
different platforms really helps us you know get this show out to more and more people which is the

(02:01:40):
intention of this uh the science communication and this type of um you know dialogue that we want to have
and if you're listening to the recorded version of this podcast give us a rating and tell us
what you think in your favorite podcasting platform but other than that that's it for today we'll

(02:02:02):
see you next Sunday same time same channel have a good one guys bye bye

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