Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hey guys, welcome to the Wild Width Show. I'm Meghana and I'm Upamanyu and we have got a great show planned for you.
(00:11):
We're obviously going to be talking about Jane Goodall, the amazing conservationist and chimpanzee champion who has recently died.
Apart from that, we're also going to talk about how France is allowing all livestock farmers to kill wolves.
They had permits earlier but we don't have them now. We're going to talk about that. What else do we have on the roster?
(00:39):
There is a private firm called NatureScott which has raised more than 100 million pounds in private investment for conservation.
They're claiming a report from the Guardian will talk and see how that is if it's like really true then it's very, very good.
(01:05):
And then we are also going to be talking about dogongs and their conservation in India.
Yeah, that's what we're talking about. We'll be back after the short intro.
(01:35):
Jane Goodall as all of us know was this renowned conservationist and she was well known for her research on chimpanzees.
She spent decades in Tanzania researching chimpanzees and her research broke our knowledge of chimpanzees as we knew it.
(02:02):
And she told that how even chimpanzees are into redumentary tool making something that was first and only confined to humans because that was what was believed that humans evolved because they learned to make and modify tools.
Jane showed how chimpanzees are capable of the same thing. Her chimpanzees had a lot of emotions, bonds and how they communicated.
(02:28):
So she broke the barriers of what we understand of animals and how we classify them, which was I think just phenomenal.
Yeah, I think those of us who are into conservation and into the wildlife world definitely would have heard of Jane Goodall.
(02:51):
That's without a doubt. But she's also been like the most famous thing all of us might have heard about her that she spent a significant amount of her life in the jungles with a group with like a sort of group of chimpanzees.
A particular sort of family of chimpanzees for a long, long time, I think almost like 50 years, sorry, 15 years, 15 years.
(03:21):
And that's what brought out all the different insights into their daily life, into how they behave, how they use tools.
So that amount of dedication, I think, is yeah, only a few people can show that amount of dedication towards their towards science, towards their craft, towards whatever they are passionate about doing.
(03:57):
And yeah, Jane Goodall was an inspiration due to that and many other things, how she sort of advocated for conservation in general, you know, in the later years following intensive research on the chimpanzees.
(04:19):
Yeah, and so Jane actually her dad bought her chimpanzee doll when she was eight and that chimpanzee doll was called Jubilee and that chimpanzee doll was what actually got her affection and spout her interest for animals.
Her mom and her mom's friends thought that she might actually be scared of the doll because you know it's not a traditional teddy bear that children get, but she got so attached to the chimpanzee and that was where life took her towards the chimpanzees and to stay with them.
(04:56):
And one of the interesting facts about the entire thing about Jane was when she entered into the field, it was a male dominated field and there were not many female conservationists who allowed on the field so she had to actually take her mother along when she went to Tanzania because of all safety reasons, so her mom accompanied her and back in the 19 her teens, 1950s maybe.
(05:24):
It wasn't normal for parents to maybe you know support their kids into conservation work and actually go with them to the site and make sure that they were fine so she had a solid support system which gave her that start and because of Jane now in the research work there's like an equal amount of females and meals because she encouraged young women to go into wildlife research and wildlife work so she's done more than just for the chimpanzee.
(05:53):
She's changed a lot of things a lot of narratives and she did something that was really brave for her time.
So and she also broke this whole barrier of you know I think till till that time people believe the chimpanzees were strictly vegetarians, but she brought out how chimpanzees would you know take a leave stalk, they would put down termite mounts, make sure that the termites were on the tweak of that time.
(06:22):
And then they would eat the termites and apart from that they had these colabous monkeys around the place and they would hunt the colabous monkeys.
I think this was something we saw in that documentary as well, right the 20 year documentary so they would kind of round up or like make sure that this colabous monkey had no exit and then they would kill that tiny monkey they would rip it apart and they would eat it.
(06:49):
So she broke the barrier of what we thought or what we knew of chimpanzees, but also she broke the barrier of how you can be friendly with a wild animal.
So there were a lot of chimpanzees that warmed up to chain and they let her into their circle they would spend time with her they would talk to her.
(07:12):
So this is a reminder of you know when you spend time with animals, they more wild if you give them enough respect if you make them seen and heard they will give you back that same respect they will let you into their inner circle and they will make sure that you know you are seen and respected as well.
(07:33):
No, I completely agree with that and I think all the points that you said made Dr Jane girl the person she was too many people the inspirations she was too many people and I have seen people's Instagram stories and posts being flooded with you know the precision for.
(08:02):
For her work for her life celebrating life and and like she she lived she lived a good life she lived a long life so.
We have certainly lost an enigma in that field but also she she left her mark so deep that you know forthcoming generations will will remember her.
(08:29):
You know there's that saying that you you die twice once when your physical body dies and then the other time when the last time your name is spoken so I think Jane Jane's name and Jane's memory would be there with us for for a long long time and and like she did so much.
(08:58):
Not only like the research the gorilla sorry the simpansi research was one of the most prominent things that she did but you know from creating the nonprofit organization that sort of dealt with all the both the scientific and sort of the humanitarian sides of it because there there is obviously a conflict.
(09:27):
Human animal conflict with chimpanzees as well in some parts of Africa so it is also you know you know for any researcher conservationist who are working with chimpanzees it's also very important for them that they also look at those conflict areas and.
(09:49):
Also support the humanitarian side of it thinks as well because if not then both the humans and chimpanzees are in danger so yeah she has left an extraordinary legacy you know scientist educator and what not and yeah a lot of a lot of generations will remember her contribution sign towards science conservation and you know everything else.
(10:19):
And I think it's very important to also understand that when Jane got into chimpanzee research she did not have formal education she actually got her oh really yeah she got her PhD because the researcher who had taken her on onto the field he was the one who pushed for her PhD and that's when she got her PhD but she did not have formal scientific you know education before that to get into that kind of research and when her.
(10:49):
What would you say her supervisor that was her his name he had actually fought for her he went and he told how her research was groundbreaking because back at that time even though she was battling all things in the jungle staying by herself being with the chimpanzees there wasn't enough funding so he had to push for the funding he had to push for the research he had to push for her PhD and that is how she actually ended up so it is it is.
(11:17):
You know reminder that you do not have to be in that field if you have the passion if you have the passion and you're at the right place at the right time I think you know your life can really really change you just need to really believe in that passion and you need to really believe that you will be you know you will get there and do what you have to and yeah.
(11:43):
I think that that that that I would say is not very good advice but it worked out for her because you know obviously her as you said the her research was groundbreaking but you know that doesn't mean that it will work out for everyone else it's it's a lot of luck and lot of being at the right like at the right place at the right time.
(12:13):
Well one that is true well that is true. The hard work hard work sort of will like the formal channels exist for that particular reason that everyone can't be a genius so even though if you're not then you know you can go through that process and trust the process and you'll you'll be somewhere but definitely for Jane you know there comes that
(12:42):
that that sort of enigma every now and again which sort of shifts are understanding of ourselves and and I think most of the chimpanzee research is based on the premise that we want to understand ourselves it's not like I mean definitely chimpanzees also but because they look very similar to us where they sort of behave very similar to us socially
(13:10):
and mostly physically as well. Yeah and we have a very close genetic connection with them as well so yeah I think the premise of it is primarily where did we come from and how did we get here but also to understand such an important species a cornerstone species of of an ecosystem.
(13:40):
Yeah and and I think oops like while you write that not everyone might be that lucky but I think if you really have passion it translates into something so you know if you really feel strongly for any kind of field or any kind of work then you you should put in everything that you have and it will take you somewhere not everyone might be lucky to be at the right place at the right time true but like Jane you know she knew she just wanted to be in Africa she knew she knew she was going to be in Africa.
(14:10):
She wanted to be you know studying chimpanzees and then when she went there within the first few months she knew that you know that was home for her that was where she was meant to be and then she just stayed there and and just resized relentlessly and even though and and the the I think the toughest part for her must have been that she she was a vegetarian and she went to Tanzania in the forest and she
(14:39):
chile tree it like a bird apparently like just berries and this whatever little things that she found that she could eat from the forest but that is what she survived on and she went on to research for 15 years and this is in a time where you know technology did not connect us enough so anything and everything back then was maybe a hundred times tougher for her to get her research papers out for her to get that research hard for her to do research.
(15:09):
She just communicate and you know let anyone know what she's done for her to be there for her to get any kind of resources so back then it was it was just it was just very different and she she struck through all of that just because her love for chimpanzees overpowered every other problem that she could have had there.
(15:32):
That that's why that's part of the reason why she's considered such a because not I don't think even one like 0.1% of people like humans can do that that sort of determination and that sort of tenacity but yeah it's very very inspired is what I can say.
(16:01):
Yeah I'm just going to share the natural article that shows her holding jibby so that was her toy that she got when she was little and she has had that toy till at least four years believe it is 2000 so that is her posing with that toy that was her inspiration so which is also stark reminder I think this is something where me and we both spoken about how as if you.
(16:31):
She's a child's view when they're they're young it would change how they look at life and what they see growing into adulthood so you know when you when they're young if you tell them that you know animals is something to be feared of or animals are not great or animals are below us then that is how they will view them but if you give them an animal's tough toy or if you take them out or if you have a pet dog or if you show them that animals love you back and talk that amazing creatures.
(17:01):
And then they actually also tend to love animals and this is what I think for us and me our childhood is what shaped our love for animals because we were pushed not pushed but we were shown.
Yes but also it's important again it's oversimplifying a bit I think but I think it's also important to say that you know to children that yes animals are can be like how.
(17:31):
It's not harmful to you but you have to know the correct way to interact with a different animal so I think that's the that's the teaching that that parents I guess should be important imparting because animals can be dangerous to you they can harm you in ways which is very very difficult to recover from.
(17:58):
That is true I think most and you can't reason with them right you can't reason with an animal.
If if they feel like doing something if you've instigated them enough like even if you instigate and human enough you can sort of reason with them even after that there is some room for conversation but once that animal is once that arrow leaves the bull there's nobody stop it.
(18:22):
But but with animals you've to understand that they do not attack until and unless they provoke so in defense or if you cause them some kind of trauma with humans you don't even need a reason a lot of times it without a reason that some human might attack you or you know at least at least with that there is some reason there there is some similar reasons there as well but I mean how would you justify all the reaps and molestation and everything there's literally zero reason.
(18:52):
It's just because you exist and the woman.
I mean that that comes from like some kind of psychological trauma is right now it's proven.
No, no, no, a lot of a lot of repist and sexual abusers have zero trauma and they still do that.
They only because they feel like they can they do it so for a lot of humans there are no reason.
(19:16):
Yes that is true.
But for animals I mean animals are really simple in their heads.
Yes, but that is what I'm saying like you can't reason like even I would say like in a percentage of cases even if you provoke a human after that you can reason with that person to a certain degree there is that room for reasoning but once you provoke an animal there's no reasoning after that.
(19:46):
Yes, but I mean the entire thing goes on to say that why would be provoked an animal like I mean why do you want to do that it can be by mistake it can be by mistake by the whole point is because you don't know most most people teach their children.
The animals are bad or animals are scary or animals are you know something so people don't know.
(20:09):
Yes, I think that is that that is what I'm saying that should be part of the teaching that animals are scary but you should interact with them in with respect you know that's the teaching I'm saying not that you know all animals are good.
No that's not the point my point was that most humans do not teach their children anything about animals they keep away from animals and these same humans grow up to be scared of anything like a small harmless dog to a small harmless cat or anything I mean they just get off every animal out there and that's not a great way to grow up.
(20:53):
I mean I feel I personally feel that if you've not felt the love of an animal you're actually losing out on a lot in life like you know it is it is a privilege to feel the love of any animal for you to be important to an animal it is an absolute privilege and it's a feeling that humans cannot give you like absolutely cannot give you like I mean I think dogs and cats.
(21:20):
Yeah dogs and cats they are the closest we have had I think Jane growl had mentioned it once as well that her favorite animals the dog as well and yeah that applies to a lot of people a lot of people's first interaction with animals is in the form of a pet mostly dog mostly a dog or a cat.
(21:45):
Yeah I think that respect that you're in there territory when you're inside a forest that respect is very important they are otherwise the interaction will become dangerous if if you don't have that respect and you know don't know the behavior that interaction will become dangerous.
(22:12):
Yeah I think Jane growl her the notes she took I think I remember reading it somewhere that the first to be to be to for her to be accepted in that group it took a very long long time and there was no way to rush the process.
(22:36):
So that's also what sort of what is meant by respect you know you can't sort of go in and say accept me to your group or give me show me everything that you do you can't do that yeah you just have that respect and have that patience I guess yeah I think like the photo on the screen is Jane.
(23:06):
I've been looking at Flint and I think his mom flow flow was the material of the group and Flint was particularly attached to flow so when flow died when she was eight the mom died Flint died a month later.
But also because he was extremely attached but it could also be a different reasons but this is one of those photos that show how you know the chimpanzees were just there around whenever she stayed and they would come with the top and they would you know how close proximity she stayed with the chimpanzees.
(23:45):
So this is a photo that shows you you know it's a beautiful photo because it shows the entire background it shows you her accommodation it shows why the chimpanzees were and how comfortable they were around her.
Yeah yeah once she was accepted into the group then I think it was yeah much more comfortable for both the chimpanzees and and Jane because the chimpanzees didn't have to look over the shoulders all the time this weird person following them but also for Jane to get to know them a lot a lot better.
(24:27):
So and not just the wild chimpanzees she actually helped rescue chimpanzees from like different zoos and she made sure that they had a good life after they were released into the wild there's this one video which is really famous where Jane's released a chimpanzee and the chimpanzee comes back and hugs her like as a thank you.
(24:50):
Now obviously and this is also something that Jane brought out like she you know she talked about how chimpanzees also hold hands and they hug and the kiss just like us.
So this was something again we thought primarily was just you know restricted to humans that we were someone who you know gave our emotions or showed our emotions to other humans through this but then she also showed how chimpanzees do the same and so that chimpanzee hugging her was you know like a thank you.
(25:19):
Thank you and then the chimpanzee right which was beautiful.
Yeah I think there is a long long time that her impact will be felt within like the loss will be felt but also the impact she'll left on a number of different areas of conservation and.
(25:48):
Wildlife management and research and everything in between yeah that will be felt for a long long time yeah so through this I think we wanted to also pay our respects to Jane and her life's work but also remember her fondly for.
(26:16):
All that she has contributed towards nature conservation to pansy research and many other things.
Yes and I think I think all these pioneering researchers so far they're way out from the 1930s to now or you know from the 1900s or wherever we have to respect that.
(26:42):
You know for them they gave their life up doing this and it was really tough for them back then and that showed how you know I mean their passion is just unmatchable to whatever whatever we say today even even if we have like dying passion for animals today we have a we have a lot of resources and different ways to communicate that but back then it had to be just you and the wilderness and nothing else like no form of communication no form of anything else.
(27:11):
And just just amazing that you know you just stayed in the forest and just existed with the animals.
Yeah that is super super cool yeah certainly a big loss.
(27:33):
Cool speaking of that I think another report from the UK is about this private funding round that was recently held by an organization called Nature.
(28:01):
Nature Scott so it the reporters from the Guardian and it is titled Nature Scott may raise more than 100 million pounds in private investment for conservation goes on to say that nature Scott is pursuing over 100 million in privacy in private investment for up to 15 government back.
(28:30):
Back nature restoration projects across Scotland a being to fill significant funding gaps beyond public grants future economic Scotland FES criticizes this calling it wasteful and counterproductive because profit driven investors prioritize financial gain over environmental emergency.
(28:55):
Nature Scott acknowledges FES analysis but maintains private funding is essential as grants alone cannot cover the expensive costs of large scale restoration project details are on this close due to ongoing development this highlights an ongoing debate about the crucial role of private capital in Scotland's vital conservation efforts.
(29:21):
I think we spoke about this when we were discussing when we reported on the.
Diable's topic and the deep extinction of the devil and then wanting to distinct the the more as well privately funded science is.
(29:48):
I look at it very skeptically because obviously private investors their primary motivation is like by by the nature of things the primary motivation of private investors cannot be.
(30:10):
Selfless or is not selfless from what we have the evidence that we have thus far they will look out for their as they should as they should I'm not criticizing that but you know private investors will look out for the for their own benefits and if we are a private investor as well we will say those exact same things we can't be.
(30:39):
Selfless in that regard when the primary goal of that investment is for our money to be utilized but also for us to gain back the equity from that and some some some generate some sort of profit from that.
(31:00):
So I fully understand and fully I think I am with future economic Scotland FES is analysis of the situation because yeah private investment is often not goal driven but it's more.
(31:23):
You know profit in that regard so but at the same time obviously you know any private company unless it is something like a CSR initiative which is the corporate social responsibility initiative of a company even those they might have some kind of.
(31:45):
You know they would want to promote their brand in some way but but having said that if in general government funding even in even in India like wherever I've worked and volunteered finding is scarce so you want you know like more funding and that is where you would go with private investment so how do you what are the solutions that we have if we need more funding for nature and it's not coming from the government.
(32:12):
Yeah that is that is a very big dilemma.
And privately funded science and I'm considering this science as well conservation is part of the our scientific endeavors as well privately funded science has you know a very big problem at its core that the profits and the role of the investors and because it's investors with an S and not investor.
(32:45):
That means you have to keep all of the different people pleased which and and it's the investment is not no strings attached that's that's the core problem I see with prop privately funded science and that is why I think I was listening to Neil deGrasse Tyson who is a famous.
(33:15):
Astrophysicist and physicist he one of one of the most famous of our times at least and he said this that all the leaps that has been made in science has been funded by the state because the state states goal is very different which is political cloud the state's goal is diplomatic.
(33:45):
And a lot of times you know saying in the world states that we have done this so that means their goals very well aligns with science as goals.
It's not the same but it very well aligns with it because you know the political political agenda can be fulfilled by science making leaps and bounds so they have a huge incentive.
(34:15):
To fund science the state has a huge incentive to fund science.
Yeah so I mean obviously the government has to I don't know if even if they have incentive or if or they don't it has to be something that is part of their prospectus.
Has have to like lot of governments don't fund science.
(34:39):
I mean in smaller in smaller ways I mean I'm not saying just science in general but at least the environment or nature or something related to wildlife all governments have to take out a chunk and keep it it has to be part of their prospective motives you can't know actually are you right maybe seeing how the US is going right now maybe they have an option not to.
(35:03):
They always have an option not to that is the thing like the thing that is keeping all the governments in check is the image is their image or their perception on the world stage that's the only thing like you have to be able to and that's that that is that is what keeps in check most of us right like we don't want to be left out we don't want to be.
(35:31):
So that's the incentive that all these governments have to keep doing what they're doing for science again their motives are completely 360 degrees degrees opposite.
But they are still parallel to each other so one can benefit the other the other will benefit it from the one that is the most important thing is that they are not going to be in the same way as they are.
(35:56):
For science again their motives are completely 360 degrees degrees opposite but they are still parallel to each other so one can benefit the other the other will benefit it from the one so that's why I think government the state has been funding science for such a long time and it will continue to do so.
(36:24):
I think all right you know less than before or maybe not as much as can be raised from a private private investment but this 100 million.
100 million pounds or whatever the amount ends up being I think the executors of that of that project will have will face so many different problems and so many different hurdles more than you know the government red tape that we keep talking about just to please these investors there is a slim slim chance I would say 0.1% chance where that doesn't happen.
(37:06):
Not that happens minimally and the product still sort of reaches its end and fulfills you know majority of its goals.
But that that chance is very slim if it happens it will definitely be a trend setter like a trailblazing event for the world of conservation.
(37:29):
I think there are obviously depends on which private company you talking about but there are companies out there where the owners or whoever you would meet they they genuinely have the stock on a for science and that is what I'm saying yeah that's the thing this 100 million can't be raised by one person it's investors not investor so the free cocoa project was funded by a billionaire.
(37:58):
He had a soft spot for kilowales in general and he funded the free cocoa project for for a long long time and when his when he didn't want to fund it anymore though I think there was a divorce or some sort of you know drama in his personal life he didn't want to fund the project anymore then the project completely fell and they had to scramble for like you know the project.
(38:27):
Yeah it was in shambles and that was one partially one of the reason why the the free cocoa project didn't go as as planned or didn't you know go as so if it's one investor it's easy but when when there is like 100 or 1000 people investing in the same thing then keeping every one of them pleased
(38:56):
is very difficult.
True but I mean obviously if the investors are not seeing like they're not giving their money in terms of return you know like if they're just giving money in the same way.
Is there investment like that?
(39:17):
Like donations you know loaded like this is but this is like investment it's specifically says investment.
Then I private investment donation is different yes donation is different completely but I don't think nobody is giving away 100 million pounds for donation.
But I mean they're saying that the investors obviously they would prioritize financial gain but what if there are some investors I don't know maybe it depends on the investors and it depends on how many investors we're talking about for the 100 million pounds and it also depends on what the investors are looking at getting out of this you know this investment.
(40:04):
So if they're actually not looking at a huge return in terms of a financial gain.
No I think we'll be will be naive to assume anything else than them looking for a profit.
It'll be very naive to assume that how would they make you know profit out of restoration nature restoration projects.
(40:25):
That's the exact questions that the investors will ask imagine you were investor what would you ask.
But that probably the only thing would be to make trails and you know have tourists go into the piece probably but then that might defeat the purpose of the restoration projects.
(40:47):
So that's why I think future economy Scotland is like and and their report is is there as well available as a PDF and we'll definitely provide that in in the pinned comment.
I'll link to that but yeah that's that's I think the major concern from from you know from that group of people who have analyzed this situation and have said that you know it's very very problematic.
(41:30):
I think nature's caught if it and you know manages to do so will be asked that question by if each and every one of the investors that how are you going to you know bring this money back as it's with like any other investment round when you go for an investment round you are asked those questions.
(41:53):
You know so yeah it's yeah I think the motives is huge conflict of interest I feel and to write but again now this is always where do you get the money from then like you know if you want to actually do something good for nature and wildlife where do you get the money from.
(42:22):
I think the answer is going to be advocacy keep on advocating for the government like there's no doubt there's no doubt about the about the great things that nobody thought would love were achievable but we have managed to achieve through advocacy and through you know talks with the government not lobbying I hate lobbying.
(42:50):
I hate lobbying I think that is it's a great deterrent lobbying is a great deterrent to anything good but yeah I think advocacy and speaking with the government and making them see of your point protests if required yeah those those are the only pathways I think and that is that is the pathway a lot of
(43:19):
different groups have been following and are following to you know get the government to see and invest fund more.
Yeah I think privately funded science like can sort of advance human understanding but for these kinds of projects where it's the outcome we are looking for ideally or the best outcome is a selfless outcome that those kinds of projects is yeah very dangerous.
(44:03):
It's difficult to be to be funded privately.
The only time will tell us how nature Scott got that money and what has happened and if it actually led to some it hasn't got that money it says it may raise so I think they're going for the funding rounds and they're going to investors to have that initial those initial talks but if the if nature Scott manages to raise it
(44:32):
and the project more or less finishes with its intended goals then it will be as I said like a trailblazing event and it will be such a trend setting event that you know more more people will follow if that in that slim chance that it happens yeah.
(44:57):
Yeah I think it's a very double edges for you know because because the government doesn't have money to fund and the private investors that do have money to fund may not do it because of whatever they're underlying motives are or they might do it because of whatever they want to get out of it so.
Yeah I think and they might yeah I think that's on nature Scott and the other groups that are involved in this to make that decision on whether that outcome that the you know generally the investors are looking for there might be some individuals looking for different things but what are those broad themes that everyone is sort of looking for there should be and will be some themes there.
(45:45):
I believe and if that those outcomes is what the or those outcomes are things that we can live with that's that's the you know I think that's the decision there and that's the choice that nature Scott and other groups will have to make.
(46:11):
And the government at the end of the day because the government will approve some of these things I believe so yeah.
Yeah I think it's waiting and watching game we have to see what happens and maybe maybe sometime at some you know some way this group of investors might surprise us that even a group can work towards something great such as just conserving nature.
(46:38):
But we have to there's no other way to know yes I feel the same way I feel the same way very if you're feeling about it very skeptical on that but if it happens then it'll be such a great sort of transferring event.
Okay I guess we can move on to the next topic then yeah for sure okay the next topic obviously is France plans to allow all livestock farmers to kill wolves France having successfully lobbied for downgrading wolves and strictly protected to protect it at the European level is now said to implement new national men.
(47:27):
So we have to take measures a key change will grant all livestock farmers the right to kill birds to defend their herds shifting from a restrictive permit system to a simpler post kill declaration this aims to accelerate farmers responses to attacks the prefecture of
Alps is overseeing the clarification of these plants which will be discussed by the national wolf group though environmental charities have long boycotted it the proposed changes have drawn criticism from both agricultural organizations who seek more and environmental protection groups who argue France is trampling its international commitments on conservation farmers of sheep goats cattle and horses will benefit from this streamlined defense.
(48:17):
So France first actually protected the wolves now it is similar to the bear story that we did last time so you know the bears have the bears went from 500 to 4000 so then they will like okay now let's issue the permits again for hunting them so we can bring down the population.
So it is similar here that wolves were strictly protected at some time and they got them down to the protected zone which means that the world population had risen to the level that they didn't have to be strictly protected again and and I mean earlier they had a post kill declaration but now they as or earlier they had a permit to to allow them to kill but now they just have to kill a wolf and say that okay we killed a wolf.
(49:05):
You know and I don't know how the process would work like I mean if you don't have a permit you can go around killing as many wolves as you want and you can just go and say yeah I killed a wolf I don't know how it works but it kind of makes the entire efforts that would have gone into you know getting the status of firms down from strictly protected to protect it for a waste right now what do you think looks.
(49:32):
I think that's I completely agree with it. I feel like it's a dangerous precedent to set as well Europe's wolves are any like again to understand this like we have to also understand like Europe as a continent is severely stunted because of its long history of industrialization and
(50:01):
you know growth in a very in very small constructed spaces it means Europe's forests forest cover in Europe is few and far between and what that means is that the biodiversity in Europe is under severe threat and severe
(50:30):
severe sort of yeah threats and they're they're severely damaged in almost all places it's like even if if anyone of us has traveled Europe it's very rare to see like a huge patch of woodland or patch of forest so Europe's wolves are already I don't know where this is coming from where they are
(50:59):
you know they think they are like protected or strictly protected you know these I don't know what these I sometimes hate these sort of boxes that we tend to put things in what is strictly protected let's redefine let's you know but I don't think it's at the level it it it's at that level of receiving the highest available protection and highest available
(51:28):
you know commitments from from the government and the government can give certain amounts of compensation for to the farmers who have lost livestock or whatever which is which is the case in our country oftentimes when tigers are eating livestock and you can you can apply for a
(51:57):
compensation but this yeah I I yeah I somehow feel very angry that this is happening and I don't know if changing the narrator would change anything so like oops mentioned in India specifically if you've lost any animal to livestock there is a subsidy system here I don't know how effective the subsidy system is but there is a there is a subsidy system
(52:26):
but having said that like there was an area where in karnataka where I was researching it's called cup and there the wolves are actually the god there you know so the local deity is the wolf and what they believe is that the wolf is there what they finally call the wolves are their sodra mama or their mom's brother so when you know these wolves attacked and they take a
(52:56):
they take a sheep or two or a goat or two.
The shepherds actually believe that it is good
and their livestock herd, it exponentially grows.
So they always feel like when the wolves come
and take one or two sheep or goat from their herd,
it's actually a blessing in disguise for them.
(53:16):
And they're, you know, they're herd grows.
They don't feel that friendly about lepers
because lepers I think are probably attacked more often
and take more, but with wolves they have like a high amount
of respect in that area.
So I do not know if changing the narrative in some way
would help, but when we're protecting a species
(53:39):
and you know that the species is already vulnerable,
I don't know how digging, you know,
how just doing a post-skilled declaration
would be of any help to protect that species.
Yeah.
It is very difficult.
I'll say that much because the Western values
(54:02):
is very starkly different than our own values
and how the society works as well.
So I don't think anybody will believe that wolves
are actually causing their livestock to grow
(54:23):
at least in the Western world,
even if that is promoted as narrative,
it's far too much capitalistic the Western world
to be able to listen to anything other than money,
I believe.
(54:43):
Money is the only way to shut them up.
So, yeah, but this makes me very angry
that France is doing this
and this is basically giving farmers a license to kill
which as history has shown us won't go down well long term.
(55:06):
It will certainly cause over killing
and it will certainly decimate the population again.
Yeah, and I think the ironical thing about this
is that even though the government said to do this,
they say or it says in the article that
the government is going to be doing this
(55:29):
and they say,
or it says in the article that
the agricultural organizations are still not happy
because they want more than this.
And the environmental protection groups on the other hand
are arguing that France is not standing up to its international
(55:50):
commitments on conservation.
So, no one is happy about this move.
They're not completely happy.
I mean, as a conservationist and as someone pro nature,
I see why you would fight against this.
But even the farmers are not completely happy.
They're not okay with just the post kill declaration.
They want more than that.
I don't even know what more means in the situation,
(56:12):
but they definitely want more than that.
Which is more concerning, I think.
Yeah, what more could they want?
Maybe they want to want the license to kill
on top of having a license,
getting like a compensation of some kind.
(56:34):
I don't know, but either way, it's very, very concerning.
To think about that, this is something
that they're thinking about even.
Yeah, and I don't think it's...
The decision is based on the number of wolves even.
(56:55):
It might have played a role,
but it's very different from what we reported on,
or we brought out the report on Florida's Black Bears.
But that, I think, is a very conscious decision
(57:17):
that they've reached a number,
and we need to not curb their numbers,
but we have this interest from people,
and we can open up the hunting licenses again.
It's more of a recreational,
(57:40):
which in some terms is even worse,
but yeah, it's...
This just makes me so much so angry
that this is happening.
After all the international commitments
and international treaties that have been signed
(58:02):
regarding the protections of wildlife
under UN and many such other umbrellas.
So, yeah, France don't do this.
Yeah, stop this.
This is not good for the wolves or the environment,
(58:23):
like...
We have spoken multiple times about the essential role
of apex predators.
So, yeah.
So, I think the article had just saved that
the France's biggest farmer union,
(58:44):
they've basically called for farmers to be equipped
with thermal imaging rifles,
which the government has refused.
So, they want the thermal imaging ones,
so that it's easier to kill the wolves at night,
because the wolves usually come at night.
Wow, okay, that's the more they want.
Yes, that's the more they want,
but that is the more that they're not giving.
(59:06):
So, they're not actually licensed wolf hunters,
and this is how the permits used to work earlier,
that the farmers were not given the licenses to kill,
but they were licensed wolf hunters
that you could call that you caught a permit from,
and they would come and they would kill.
So, you know, you yourself couldn't actually go and kill a wolf
(59:27):
because that was not a lot, but now everyone can kill.
So, because everyone can kill now,
now they're like, okay, if I can kill,
then just give me the best gun that is out there,
so that I have the best chance of killing a wolf.
Yeah, I feel like there is a lot more different ways,
which might be, which might not be as,
(59:51):
it might be a little bit damaging to the wolves as well,
but not as severely damaging.
There is like more investment into electric fencing,
maybe I imagine they would already have electric fencing,
but maybe more investment to that better technology,
(01:00:11):
maybe a better,
maybe developing a better breed of guard dogs,
I don't know, maybe like a master,
like a really huge master that protects the Tibetan herds
from snow leopards and wolves at places.
(01:00:35):
I think there can be solutions like that.
Yeah, and at this time, basically,
they're saying that if 19% of the wolves are killed every year,
it is fine, and that is not a tipping point.
So 19% is where they feel that the current population
can sustain and grow, but if the rate goes above 19%
(01:00:58):
and the probability of a population decline is significant.
Now, obviously the master means I'm kind of framework
where there has been some way that this 19% has reached,
but having said that who is actually going and doing a check
that there are only 19% of the works being killed.
(01:01:20):
Exactly, if the farmers are having to self-report,
then they can say that we have killed less wolves
than they have actually killed.
And it will be a lot of, you know,
spending from the government to find out actually
(01:01:41):
whether they're telling the truth.
Yeah.
I think the permit system is still, you know,
the compromise we can make, we can live with kind of,
but this, how can you go from like having given a permit
(01:02:05):
to like just declaring, yeah, I can't comprehend that.
It's, I mean, I guess you do that when you have too much pressure
from the farmers union, which must have caused this.
That's what I said.
Like I hate lobbying.
Lobbing is like one of the biggest evils of our society
(01:02:26):
and nothing good has ever come out of lobbying.
And yeah, it's, yeah, I am, I am in deep hatred
of the lobbyists in general, but yeah,
the farmers lobby is strong.
(01:02:48):
Every country, farmers lobby is so strong.
Obviously, I mean, I mean, the farmers lobby would be strong
because they are the ones who are providing the food
for their entire economy to eat.
So, you know, they're lobbying or what they say
has a big impact on how things work out.
But having said that, you know, even though
(01:03:09):
there have to be better solutions like the electric fence
and there have to be better solutions
that just, you know, left try and center shooting.
They've also said in the article that like 192 wolves this year,
they were allowed to kill.
But like in the start of the year itself,
there was a significant high number of shooting.
(01:03:29):
So compared to 2024, there was a 26% of increase
of shooting the wolves and 146 out of 192 have already been killed.
So they've told the, you know, the licensed hunters
to slow down because they might reuse the cap too early.
So this, this is something that they can,
(01:03:51):
they can, you know, say right now because they know how many wolves
are being killed according to the permits
and because every wolf that's being killed has to be reported.
But there is no way of knowing 192 or 200 or 500 wolves
have been killed in the next year.
Once you just say, give me a post kill declaration.
That is certainly, certainly the right way to put it, you know,
(01:04:18):
it's very difficult to manage that.
And it's very difficult to come out and say that that's what is happening.
So, yeah, there's basically no track.
And like even with the licensed hunters,
they are, the government is saying things like you might reach the limits too soon.
(01:04:43):
Limits too soon.
So that means there is, there is like over hunting or, you know,
more than they, more hunts are being conducted than,
than there should be, you know, every point in here.
So they might have, for example, 19% is like 200 wolves a year.
(01:05:07):
So 200 wolves across 12 months, you know, might look like,
every, every month, there is like two or three wolves,
not more than that killed.
So, you know, every month, you know, 15, 16 wolves are being killed.
(01:05:28):
That means it's already exceeding that number of, you know,
maybe 30 wolves are being killed, 20 wolves are being killed, whatever.
So if the farmers are given the license,
then I rest assured, like that number is certainly certainly going up.
(01:05:48):
Like maybe the hunt 200 wolves are killed in the first month or something like that.
Yeah, there is no, there is no way to know.
And like how the, you know, like this year itself,
there has been an increase from the last year.
So if you're just taking the permits off, then there is, it's just going to be absolute rampage.
(01:06:08):
I think all the farmers with all their anger for the wolves and, you know,
not being able to actually tackle themselves now having that,
what would you say, power, yeah, or the freedom to do it, they would,
they would go relentlessly and attack.
Yeah, like that, that, that, that I can say that, like without a shadow of doubt,
(01:06:32):
like, like knowing my, like even placing myself in their shoes, like knowing how,
like if I had those all those pressures on my business and my livelihood,
and how I would react if not for me being sort of,
(01:06:56):
you know, someone who's interested in wildlife, interested in protecting wildlife
to, to large extent.
Yeah, I would have done the same thing, like I would have gone willingly and shot every wolf
that I found because I see, see it as, as the enemy, I see it as the enemy.
And yeah, I can say that without a shadow of doubt that those 219% of wolves,
(01:07:22):
they will be killed in the first month.
If this is, this is done.
And I don't know how the government is failing to see this or failing to recognize this.
Yeah, the lobby must be so strong.
But yeah, our appeal to the French government would be that, you know,
(01:07:49):
this is something that's completely unethical and, you know, very backwards for them,
for anyone to do.
So have another look at this proposal and, you know,
our appeal would be to ban this and keep it at the permit system.
(01:08:14):
I mean, if that's the, you know, if this is something that is definitely, definitely required,
you know, keep it at the permit system, please.
Nothing more than that.
Yeah, I mean, that is, that is our appeal, but we do not know what will happen because at the end of the day,
it depends on which lobby is stronger.
(01:08:36):
So if there are only talks of it, it is, it is possible that that is what is going to,
you know, happen.
Unfortunately, yeah.
Unfortunately, that's going to happen either way if the lobby is strong enough.
(01:08:58):
Yeah.
Speaking of that, we have this very, another conservation,
so success story in a way to say this is a report from the Hindu and it titled,
(01:09:20):
it's titled Swam to Safety on the Dughong and Conservation.
So India's Dughongs, these are Seekows, very docile, very fascinating creatures.
Dwindle, severely from poaching, bycatch, habitat loss and pollution.
(01:09:44):
However, recent efforts, especially the 2022 Dughong Conservation Reserve in Park Bay,
Signal reversal, protecting over 12,000 hectares of Seekgrass, that's the stuff that Dughongs
eat, munch on, eat.
(01:10:05):
It's a model for integrated marine conservation.
Tamil Nadu's stewardship with Wildlife Institute of India and Community Involvement
reduced poaching and encouraged bycatch release.
The IUCN loaded its ecological significance.
(01:10:28):
WII, surveys indicate over 200 Dughongs, a fragile but encouraging recovery.
Advanced mapping technologies are also used.
But at the same time, challenges persist, mechanized fishing.
Again, we have talked about this N number of times, how bad trawling and, you know,
(01:10:51):
all the different other ways of automated fishing are.
Port construction, again, Partha, when he was here, he talked about this as well,
the port construction, dredging and pollution threatened Seekgrass and Dughongs.
Climate change poses risks.
(01:11:12):
And populations are the good drought and and demand populations of Dughongs are less protected.
Cross-border collaboration with Sri Lanka and consistent funding are vital for wider, sustainable recovery.
Yeah, this is, again, encouraging, but in the world of conservation, I think,
(01:11:44):
it's a never-ending battle with government, with the locals, with funding and everything else.
That you have to sort of constantly juggle in order to, you know, make sure the success is not short-lived or the success is not something that's reversed back.
(01:12:13):
Immediately after that success is achieved.
Yeah.
And these creatures, these animals, I can share, like, a photo on the screen.
They are very docile creatures, but also very fragile in how they,
(01:12:41):
in their relationship with the environment.
So that means, yeah, and they're very, very important.
They're very close to their cousins, like the manatees that you would see in the US, the manatees that are very popular.
So Dughongs have a different kind of a tail and they're slightly different even in the way they're shaped.
(01:13:07):
But Dughongs are the sea cows on this side of the world, and even in Egypt in different places.
And on the other side of the world, it's the manatees where in Florida, you see those big potatoes that they would call them.
And Dughongs are vegetarians.
So, you know, like, underwater, there are very, very few animals or creatures that would be vegetarians.
(01:13:31):
You know, animals eat other fish or a grill or other kind of things, but it, I mean, it's not common to be a vegetarian when you're an underwater animal, but Dughongs do that.
So if the sea grass that they depend on, if that disappears, they don't have anything to feed on and they would eventually perish.
So, which is why they call sea cows because, you know, how cows on land are always munching on grass.
(01:13:57):
The Dughongs underwater are always munching on sea grass.
And I think they're also this critical indicator of the health of that marine ecosystem, just because they are consuming all that grass and then also that means that grass is not overgrown.
(01:14:31):
And I don't know what the natural hunters or natural predators for Dughongs are, but as Mignava was saying, like, they're herbivores, completely herbivores, and, yeah, it's, it's, it'll be a shame to lose the species to trivial things like, for us not being able to solve the problem of,
(01:15:00):
sort of trailing, dredging, and all the different other bike-ad related things that, that, that, this, this report mentions.
I think the protection, the Wildlife Protection Act of, of, of creating the Dughong Reserve in, in part, they was a big change.
(01:15:23):
I think that was a very commended effort within the conservation work, like conservation circles in India as well.
But, you know, as I said, like, it's a constant effort of, should negotiating all the different pros and cons in order to reach the intended goal.
(01:15:50):
I feel like always in conservation, all the stories are like that.
And I think the thing is, at least this one, it shows that there has been an effort already and there is ongoing effort.
So protecting over 12,000 hectares of sea grass is in itself an achievement that can be applauded, because that's a huge, huge area.
(01:16:12):
And it is a model for, you know, like, integrated marine conservation. So it is a model that can be replicated in other areas where there's fragile population that needs to recover.
But as opposed to, you know, like how manatees, they are in shallow waters and they are in areas that can actually be caught on doff, and they can be protected.
It's not the same for Dughong, because Dughongs can be anywhere in the open ocean. And that's why you need to protect, like, bigger areas.
(01:16:39):
Obviously with the manatees as well, they come into the warmer waters and then they go back into the deep seas.
But with the Dughongs, that hasn't been noticed or that hasn't been documented as yet.
So there isn't like a proper area that you can just muck for the Dughongs. It is a big area.
But it's, it's hopeful and it's nice to hear that there are talks of trans-border collaboration with Sri Lanka.
(01:17:04):
So if the if our neighboring country is also with us in protecting, it would be a huge area of protection for the Dughongs and the Dughongs can actually, you know, their numbers can significantly rise once they are, you know, once they have more protection.
Dughongs are mammals, right? They have to come up to breed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
(01:17:32):
Yeah. So I think obviously they're not like I don't think they're primarily have that their primary habitat will be the open ocean.
Because obviously they'll have to feed and the sea grass will be mostly on the shores and things like that.
(01:17:54):
But definitely, definitely like if we have done the part we reserve in in and demands.
And I think the Dughong population in Gujarat probably needs a similar kind of protection as well.
(01:18:19):
The park straight is the straight of water between that is separating us and Sri Lanka.
So that means, you know, the cross-border collaboration will be very effective in achieving achieving this goal.
(01:18:45):
And yeah. So I'll just quickly share a rough map of that location.
So yeah, this is the park straight. This is the park bay. And here is where I think the Dughongs live, you know, this, this, I think this park straight and this patch of ocean is especially significant for India for some reason.
(01:19:26):
Yeah, for some great mythological reasons as well. This is apparently the place where Ram had crossed over to Sri Lanka to, you know, kill Ravan.
And that is that is deeply rooted in our sort of cultural beliefs as well.
(01:19:51):
They had constructed a bridge over Park straight to reach Sri Lanka.
As the story goes, but yeah, I think all of those things just lead to this particular patch of ocean and it's very important for Dughong's Dughong conservation.
(01:20:15):
Yeah, and I think it's very important for us to understand that Dughongs basically when they feed on the Seagrass, they promote the regrowth of Seagrass.
And just like any other, you know, plants underwater, they are Seagrass is also carbon sink.
So if you don't have the Dughongs and, you know, they're not promoting the Seagrass regrowth, then we're also losing out on a big carbon sink that we have underwater.
(01:20:42):
Which is why the Dughongs are also famously called farmers of the sea, you know, because they're helping the Seagrass regrowth.
Yes, and I think the underwater plants are often discounted or often not because obviously they're not front of front of mind for a lot of people.
(01:21:12):
The underwater plants are not seen as the huge carbon sinks that mentioned by Megna, they are.
And they help Seagrass, the fight of plankton, all of these different things, algal mats, that floats around the ocean, they are very, very huge carbon sinks.
(01:21:37):
In some cases, even more than the Amazon or, you know, larger patches of course, like that.
Yeah, it's very important. And again, shape it, it's of the like farmers of the ocean, that means they are not a crucial part of that particular ecosystem, that particular marine ecosystem.
(01:22:04):
It's, it's a no brainer.
And, and you know, like there are areas around the world, like I think Australia is home to around 10,000 Dughongs, so there are Dughongs across the coast of Australia.
So there are areas where you have, you can see like healthy population of Dughongs and the fact that there can be more Dughongs existing with everything else and Australia is also famous for every other, you know, ocean wildlife creature that is there, there are real sharks there and whales that might be through the borders.
(01:22:36):
And everything else, so you know, like Australia has a good mix of these marine mammals and marine animals across its coasts.
So it's possible for the Dughongs and everything else to survive. So if we have strict norms and more collaborative projects, I think we can get the Dughong numbers up to a better number than what we have right now, just like how Australia has run 10,000 Dughongs, I think we should, we should be able to, we might not be able to get to that number.
(01:23:05):
Even, you know, going up from 200 to 500 in itself would be a huge, huge achievement.
Yeah, and like it's one step at a time, right? If one step at a time you're taking like as long as you're taking the right steps in the right directions and you're not sort of backtracking on,
on the steps that you're taking, you're not backtracking on sort of the progress that you've made, like we discussed in the last story, like the, you know, backtracking of progress that France is trying to do.
(01:23:45):
As long as we, you're not doing that, it's, yeah, it's, it's, I think it's the steps in the right direction and the, the effort that will count.
Sometimes you have to take like drastic measures and I think declaring part bay that that part bay Dughong conservation reserve was one of those, you know, drastic steps.
(01:24:14):
That had to be taken at that time.
But from there it's always one step at a time taking steps in the right direction and making sure that in no way we're trying to go back to where we came from.
Rather, we are always taking that step forward.
(01:24:36):
Yeah.
I'm talking about taking a step forward, I think it would be a good time to talk about the new species that have been discovered recently.
Yes, that is something we should do now.
(01:24:59):
Sure.
So pink bumpy snail fish was just discovered miles beneath the ocean.
M bar equal abridors have described three new deep sea snail fish species, including the bumpy snail fish.
This is the Monterey Bay Aquarium that does the deep research.
(01:25:20):
Their advanced underwater technology greatly aided the discovery, firstly encountered in, first encountered in 2019 researchers from Montana.
And have I have joined the published findings detailing these new species from California's abyssal sea floor embarries.
(01:25:41):
Steven had to emphasize collaboration and data sharing's importance for expanding deep ocean understanding and tracking biodiversity changes.
Snail fish is typically possess a large head jelly like body, narrow tail and often an adhesive disk to grip surfaces.
Over 400 snail fish species are non globally, thriving in divers marine environments from shallow tide pools to deep sea trenches.
(01:26:10):
So this is quite amazing to know that there are three other snail fish species that have been found.
And yeah, oops, I shared the photo of this puppy snail fish.
So this is one of the snail fish that has been discovered.
I think we spoke about other.
Nailfish, I think some others need for sure to prepare snail fish or something else that we spoke about a few weeks earlier.
(01:26:34):
It's very interesting, always very interesting to see the latest in the discovering, discovering spring.
There's another one that we have where a global project has unearthed some new species of wildflowers.
So landmark five decade viewable study led by professor Stephen Hopper of the University of Western Australia has unearthed numerous new wildflowers species across four continents.
(01:27:09):
That's very huge.
Published in Newtsia, the research examined kangaroo paws, hemodorm and conostylus.
Collected since 1973 from Australia, Papua New Guinea, the Americas and South Africa.
(01:27:31):
Using fieldwork, morphology and genetic data, the study mapped evolutionary relationships defining two subfamilies.
Hemodoroid, hemodroid DA, 10 global genera and 51 species and conostyloid DA.
Six Australian genera and 81 species.
(01:27:54):
So it's a lot of different species of wildflowers has been discovered.
Discoveries include a new South African genus, para delectrous and new types within existing genera.
Seven kangaroo paws, eight hemodoroid and six conostylus.
(01:28:17):
For new four new red and green kangaroo paws species, where notably found on Australia's South Coast, hemodoroid also holds cultural significance for Aboriginal people used for both food and dyes.
Again, for newer viewers, this is a segment that we do where we try and highlight new discoveries in the world of biodiversity and flora and fauna.
(01:28:52):
Just because scientific inquiry like this is so, so important and it also means we have a better understanding of the natural world and what are the important bits to be protected because as we stand right now, it's very give and take how we look at the natural world as protection.
(01:29:19):
So the more we know, the more effectively we're able to do those investments and protect the natural world.
All right, what's the next thing you want to talk about me now?
The next thing, so we could talk about either spitty or the sharks, which one do you want it up at?
(01:29:43):
We can start with the spitty valley story.
Okay, so this is another article or the news that has come from India.
So spitty valley is India's first cold desert biosphere reserve under UNESCO.
It has been declared as India's first cold desert biosphere reserve.
Under UNESCO's man and the biosphere program announced a meeting in China in here now has 13 MAB reserves.
(01:30:12):
Globally recognizing Himachal Pradesh's cold deserts this will enhance international research promote responsible for ecotourism and strengthen climate resilience in Prajjal Himalayan ecosystems spanning 777777702 km across Pithi and Lahore.
At 3300 to 6600 meters altitude the reserve is structured into core buffer and transition zones.
(01:30:40):
It integrates pin valley national park, Kibber wildlife century, Chandratal wetland and Sirchu plains.
The unique ecosystem boasts of rich diversity biosphere with 655 herbs, 47 medicinal plants and diverse wildlife including the snow leopard, Tibetan wolf, Ibex and various plants.
So this is quite amazing because I mean if you mean to this pithi or Ladakh you you know that they are just different like in terms of how they look and how they feel like you know like you would there are no trees.
(01:31:18):
There's just very little vegetation there's very little that can grow there because of the kind of soil that is there but you get to see these different shades of colors in the you know the cold pattern mountains and it's just a different.
What would you say environment so it's quite amazing to know that that you know you you know school has seen and recognized and it's declared that as a biosphere reserve so from the park pay straight area of where we've talked about protection area then this is another protection area that has come up.
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And a lot of people go in the winters specifically to you know for these snow leopard tours and they walk a lot of distances and they look across these mountains and in the winter because it's knowing everywhere the snow leppers descend down so you can you have a better chance of seeing them so this this entire area is really unique you know the way they look and the way they feel it's just extremely different.
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And speedy is also blessed with like river flowing through the valley so that way it's amazing but it's also sparsely populated the tourism has drawn leaps and bounds in the last few years but hopefully it doesn't spread across to this biosphere reserve area and this area stays protected and it's monitored that way.
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Yeah I think again India is like it sometimes boggles my mind but India is a country of very wide diversity across across its you know across the from north to south and different ecosystems very varied and very different.
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And ecosystems that exist from you know in different parts of India and yeah this wire this this cold desert and like wire why I'm saying this is this this cold desert ecosystem will have a very different need to for example an ever green forest.
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Or a desert like a warm desert or a mangrove forest so having all of these different varied ecosystems means that we have to tailor make all the solutions we can't reuse solutions that that has worked in some places for this particular place as well.
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Follow the model but we have to make sure that we have that research and we have that we understand the uniqueness of that particular those those that particular ecosystem in order to protect it fully and I think being recognized as a cold desert biosphere reserve just means that it makes it official it makes it official to the scientists as well that.
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This is the approach this is the environment and you should approach that in a way which is suitable for that that kind of ecosystem and not just you know follow whatever has worked for for example a warm desert or you know yeah.
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I've shared some photos of spithi valley obviously you would see this one monastery that has been highlighted in a lot of photos that is because that is the key monastery spithi and let that both these areas are Buddhist areas so you would you would find a lot of monasteries and this monastery is called key monastery like K I or sometimes K.E.Y.
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But that that features prominently in a lot of pictures but you can see how in the winter's it's completely snowed in and in the summers there's some kind of a barrenness some kind of greenery around the area but it's mostly just a parent parent desert and if you see the eight picture that's the chanatal lake so you know it's like a reflective lake and you can.
(01:35:58):
See the mountains being reflected so it is a beautiful beautiful valley and even though it's bad and they are like these.
The colors in the mountains that you would not be able to see anywhere else because it's just it's just a different kind of ecosystem and like you know how upset I think we do not we do not talk about this often or we do not think about this often but even though India is not one of the biggest countries out there it has 11 out of 13 I think ecosystems or you know that the what would you say like the grasslands.
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We have 11 out of 13 which is a huge deal you know from going from the south going from the north to the south you have these many different ecosystems and we need to protect and we need to recognize that each of those ecosystems are equally important so the grasslands are equally important to the forest are equally important to the underwater marine life is equally important to the cold desert past fear which I'm really happy to see that there is a lot of you know conservation.
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So it's nice to know that there's more and more protected areas.
Yes I think that's like that's the reason why you know getting these accolades or maybe getting the.
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The different categorizations of things is so important it's it just makes it just means that it will have that protection and that specific kind of.
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Research and execution as that as the need of that specific ecosystem is it won't be a blanket blanket thing that would be applied to you know to them obviously as I said like the models will be followed there's some conservation models that has worked part in in the past with regards to like maybe conflict resolution or while I'm.
(01:38:28):
Or while I'm management or biosphere management and things like that but you know specific research and specific plans need to go into suit this specific kind of ecosystem.
Yeah and and the fact that at least you know like you know asco has is recognizing these fragile ecosystems and it's actually like.
(01:38:57):
You know because it's giving me a circulation it also kind of helps the locals be more motivated to save and protect these kind of places because you know these are the kind of places that have been draw and untouched for a long time.
And that is where the wildlife and the very fragile wildlife that that you don't find anywhere else that drives here so no lepers are also found in only a few places across the world and it's great that you know we we actually have them in spitty and.
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And you know you wouldn't want to lose out on them or the Tibetan world so the I would so any of the other different species and flowers and different kind of you know grass that you see growing in these areas.
Yeah yes I think I feel like it's very.
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And the UNESCO conservation also like UNESCO recognition also means there'll be like more funding available for that area as well since it's a UNESCO recognized biosphere reserve but yeah as you said like this just highlights such a diverse need for diverse approaches to each and every ecosystem that exists here.
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Speaking of that there's another ecosystem or a specific member of an ecosystem that's currently in the Fed from some developmental measures that Australia is trying to do so this is a report from the Guardian which says so tiny and so what.
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So what chances will one of Australia's smallest birds have against a rocket launch pad so the critically endangered southern emurin designated Australian bird of the year actually this is a very cool thing that happens in both Australia New Zealand where one bird is designated the bird of the year every year.
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And there's a public voting round and what not it's it's quite fun and then that means that particular bird received most receives most of the funding in that calendar year so it's it has been the Australian part of the year 2025.
It faces an existential threat following the federal government's approval of a rocket launch facility in its crucial South Australian habitat conservationists voiced profound astonishment at this decision fearing for the future of this so tiny and so vulnerable in quotes species.
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The birds is remarkably small described as roughly the size of a match box with a tail comparable to a pencil.
Tariis Pedler, chairperson of the IAPeninstaller Environmental Protection Alliance emphasizes the immense challenge this delicate creature will face against such industrial development.
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The approval highlights a significant conflict between economic development aspirations and the urgent need to protect Australia's unique at risk wildlife the environmental advocates are campaigning vehemently to reconsider the plan understand underscoring the severe implications for a species already teetering on the brink of extinction.
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What a beautiful bird what a beautiful bird but obviously being such a small bird I mean I am in love like I am friends are very like a family of birds that I love very small but very
(01:43:16):
very flowering around the under growth very hard to photograph very challenging to photograph but obviously very rewarding when you manage to get good sharp photo of the rain and this photo is one of those again imagine this you might not be able to but this is this
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a big like a match box and the tail is very pointy so about the size of pencil so a big tail so long tail but very small bird one of Australia's smallest
(01:44:07):
I am all for science in whatever shape or form and space research is definitely one of those kinds of things that that has progressed us like humans as a species leaps and bounds
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but I am like astonished at the government's capability to ignore all the different risks especially the environmental risks before approving any kind of plan I think that is one of the first things the government should look at like one of the environmental risks of approving this plan
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because like I can say without a shadow doubt every plan will have some environmental risks there's no plan that can exist without harming the environment in some way and it's up to the government to make sure that harm is as minimal as possible certainly not risking the wipe out of an entire species
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I think it's ironical that they would vote it as the Australian bird of the year and then actually also pass a project that would you know decimate their population further because if they're already teetering on the brink of extinction that means that they're already struggling to survive and with that if this rocket launch pad
(01:45:50):
wherever it has been approved if that goes through then what is the use of having these birds of the year nominations if you're not going to work hard enough to protect them
so true so rightly said I mean yes that I completely missed that but yeah I mean if it's a this is the bird of the year then yeah why why even have those things
(01:46:13):
this is the proposed location for the rocket launch pad such a beautiful location such typical Australian flora and Australian sort of ecosystem visible here and yeah I mean we're talking about the birds which also means like we're planning to decimate all its habitat which is the reason the bird will be gone
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because they have because of habitat loss and things like that and yeah like to do that to the bird of the year it seems as you as Magna said like especially ironic and overly cruel in our opinion
yeah and I think I think like how it said that every every project would come at some cost to the environment but there have to be better places right like Australia is also a huge country with a lot of areas that have no population are sparsely populated
(01:47:18):
but they should have access or they should have more plan B so plan C's of areas that do not affect our
directly impact very fragile wildlife having felt that it's really hard like I mean something like a rocket launch pad would take a huge huge area so they need to also see which area they can use to make such a thing
(01:47:45):
and I mean it would always come at its own cost so at this point of time I think most really needs to see they really want to give up on this bird the bird of the year or you know or do they really just want to launch rockets and going to space research effectively while losing out on these exceptional unique wildlife that they have only in that country.
(01:48:10):
I like I completely agree with that notion like this is a beautiful beautiful bird and losing it out where we could have prevented it and I feel like like science has reached that stage where you know we certainly have options like we have so many options in the world
(01:48:40):
so many ways that it's almost unlikely that we won't have an option it's very unlikely that we won't have an option or won't have a different plan to consider in these cases.
(01:49:02):
So yes please again it's an appeal to the Australian government as well from us is that you know like consider this bird which has been voted the bird of the year and the government has and sure would have passed a lot of funding for this as this with any bird of the year.
(01:49:32):
But so yeah please consider this and I feel like we have had to appeal to a lot of governments today but yeah.
I'm 100% sure there is a better way and there's a better location where the cost to the environment is lesser.
(01:50:01):
Yeah it's it's a little bit depressing but I'm sure the tireless work of the people who are actually working on the field and the environmental groups that are advocating against this.
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I wish them all the luck and I'm sure that they will get the government to reconsider and move in a more environmentally friendly direction.
Yeah that is true so you know now it's a wait and watch game to see if the government actually changes its location or if it stays the same and what it means for the future of these e-murins what would happen of them and where would they go.
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And the thing with anything that is human is that whatever project we come up with it always has an environmental cost so we need to see where this takes us.
But yeah if there is any update we will keep you updated on it.
Yeah well one of those stories that will all of these like the world's story as well we always keep following those stories and if something comes up.
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New development we will be certain to report those those back to you guys.
Yeah so are we are we coming to a close or are we do we have time for one more topic.
Yeah we can we can talk about another topic if there's something interesting you want to talk about.
(01:51:52):
I think there's this article about three sharks mating which is yeah yeah so there's a first of its kind footage that has revealed three endangered sharks mating all at the same time.
I mean biologist Hugo LaSos or LaSos capture groundbreaking video of Indo pacific leopard sharks or zebra sharks mating of new calidonia first.
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It might be Hugo LaSos maybe.
Yeah do near and it's like a French.
Maybe but I think he's from Australia so I don't know.
Yeah for this endangered species this extraordinary footage documents are comparatively calm and gentle interaction contrasting sharply with previously violent sharp mating encounters.
(01:52:44):
And then you can see that the first one is a couple of few co observed one female being made by two males consecutively for 110 seconds until exhaustion capturing crucial biological details.
Some somewhat little Iroic on the 110 seconds until exhaustion but okay published in the journal of etology.
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The unique marine manager Troy provide unpresidented insights into the reproductive behavior of these sharks long considered a mystery scientists anticipate the discovery will significantly aid conservation efforts especially for breeding these endangered animals in captivity.
If you guys go pro battery famously died movements after the twist concluded emphasizing the rarity of the observation.
(01:53:31):
This is a nice geo article so I'm just sharing the images I've shared it I've shared it make up you can.
Oh you've shared it okay so there's a video as well.
Yeah there's a whole video right now.
And the thing is that with sharks and their mating behavior there's very little recorded evidence even on different sharks.
(01:53:52):
There's another photo of us under as well under with this is the entire area see this this photo yeah both the males.
Yeah and why this is even greater is there are some sharks documented and when they say violent shark aggressive you know mating is because some male sharks actually grab the female with their teeth you know during the course of I think it's very common behavior in like large predators like tigers and lions also do that where they the males will grab the neck of the females.
(01:54:30):
Yeah and it's very violent mating big cats as well.
But big cats it's I think with big cats it's a little different because under what you're floating so you know you really need to grip on because you can be floating somewhere when they grip on they grip on with that much intensity that you can actually see shark bite marks on the sharks like on the on the
and you know that they're shark bite marks and not something else.
(01:54:53):
But having seen the shark bite marks very little evidence of actually seeing the sharks mating in person like it it almost seems like the sharks made somewhere you know like in the darkness or in the night or away from human.
Yeah because we don't even know like where most sharks mate especially the bigger ones is very surprising to me because they are like so big the great whites and things like that.
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But we don't know where they made the we don't know where they give birth we don't know how they nurse and all those different things yeah it's a big missing link for us which is very surprising and very intriguing for me as well.
I I do not think the noise though because more sharks are you know fish yeah yeah they have they have their eggs but some of them can have the eggs inside the woman they might give up but they don't really they're not really
(01:55:47):
a nurse in nursing species whether the baby stay with the mothers but having said that even the mating process there are some areas that you know that the sharks come together to congregate at that area because you know it's mating season like in South Africa there's a place called
which is a marine reserve because the Santa Ega sharks come there to mate for two months in a year but even despite them being there when you go diving you would see the sharks all around but you do not see the meeting so it says in this article as well that you know like sharks are seen every day on dives and there are hundreds of dives happening every day across the you know across the earth but there is very little documented evidence of this is the huge breakthrough for them to see like a
(01:56:32):
like the three sharks meeting I mean even two sharks meeting is rare so this is a even more amazing you know revelation.
Yeah and I think I'm sure like the scientists who are working on these these these particular sharks sharks species because what species of sharks they are leopard sharks leopard also sometimes con zebra sharks.
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Yes yeah the video shows it very clearly as well and it's as yeah very very unique opportunity for the diver as well who was able to capture this behavior and I'm sure like the scientists will be you know on top of this in no time and sort of trying to document more such behavior trying to sort of figure out what's going on there as well.
(01:57:27):
And the and the fact that this also shows that you know how even a small action camera can have a big impact on reporting so even though his battery died just seconds after this he was able to capture this.
There's a rare observation and if you're not being able to capture it would have been one of those things where he would try to go and tell people that this is what he saw but nobody would believe him so if it happened even two minutes before because it was 110 seconds of exhaustion it would have been something that you know today it wouldn't know it would have not made it to national geographic it would have been him still trying to tell it as department that guys you have to believe me this happened.
(01:58:11):
So now everything everything comes down to the evidence and yeah it's amazing that you know there are these new discoveries and it's amazing that you was at the right time at the right spot and was able to capture this short meeting because short meeting is such a mystery to most scientists even today.
(01:58:32):
Yeah that is true and I think like understanding it is like why it's being a mystery is is not a problem but is a lack gap in our knowledge is because we are they are the apex predators of the ocean and many ecosystems so understanding their ecology and their life sort of cycle.
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It is a very important piece of the puzzle in trying to conserve them true. Yeah and I think that that is a great great place to like draw a close to our show.
That's that's yeah I agree with that.
(01:59:24):
So before we close the show before oops you know does is closing off the show bit which topic did you guys find really interesting and you know what do you think that government should do what are the solutions from Francis works to you know Scotland's private investment to Australia's rocket launch pad like what other solutions can you think of that the government can do for a fight.
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Yeah do let us know in the comments we always appreciate your comments so much but other than that I think we have approached the end of today's show obviously goes without saying do subscribe to share this show with your friends and family as much as you can leave a comment on whatever comes to mind after watching the show.
(02:00:21):
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Consider leaving us a rating that really helps us a lot with the algorithm and getting us in front of more listeners but other than that that's it for today we'll see you next Sunday same time same channel.
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Have a good one guys.
Bye.