Turtle egg buyback scheme (Hinglish)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey guys, welcome to The Wild Bits show. I'm Upamanyu.
And I'm Meghna. And today we have prepared a big show for you.
So we have decided that our fifth show, every fifth show, will be in English.
Now what is English? For those who don't know, English is that you switch between English and Hindi seamlessly and flawlessly.

(00:24):
Now this is something that we have been doing for a long time.
So it's very easy for us.
So first we will talk about what topics are we going to talk about today.
So one of the topics, obviously the headline topic, is that Malaysia is buying back turtles.
So a turtle is one buyback scheme.

(00:47):
Now what is this scheme and is it sustainable?
So recently we have been implementing this scheme for decades.
Now why has this scheme come up?
Because it's illegal trade prevention.
Now we will talk about why this scheme came and how it came.

(01:10):
So this is another topic that I'm going to talk about.
And the other topic that I'm going to talk about is closer to home.
So in India, in one incident in Andhra Pradesh,
Kumki elephants use Kumki elephants use Kumki elephants,
they were able to divert the wild jambos back to the forest.
Now what are Kumki elephants?
How are they helping divert wild elephants back?

(01:33):
How is this mitigating human-wild life conflict?
So we will talk about these conflicts.
And now we will talk about these two topics.
So we have this article coming from Florida,
where black bears, Florida black bears,

(01:58):
they have reached a certain number of individuals
because of conservation efforts and other people.
And the voters, the residents,
they are wanting to
to issue these black bears
licenses for hunting.

(02:19):
They were closed in 1970s.
But they think that
the population of the bears
is sustainable to introduce hunting again.
So we will talk about that.
There is also in a similar fashion,
Denmark,
zoos are asking people to donate their pets

(02:43):
in order to feed the predators.
and it is assuring that
the animals,
the pets donated
will be gently euthanized.
So,
usphe bhi,
humare opinions,
kya hain or kaise hain,
woh baat kareinge
after this very short intro.
Okay, Meghna,

(03:05):
why don't you start with your headline topic?
Yes,
so headline topic is

(03:26):
Turtle egg buybacks.
What should we do to buy back turtle eggs?
Now,
what should we do to buy back turtle eggs?
I will give a small summary.
What was happening in Malaysia?
Turtle eggs are a delicacy.
People like to eat food.
It is very tasty
and people eat it.
but what is happening in that way?

(03:47):
That the turtle eggs,
the green turtle eggs,
the population has declined.
Now,
for those who don't know,
turtles always come back to the same beach
that they were born on to give birth again.
So,
if I was born in Chennai
and then I went to the ocean

(04:08):
and then I am pregnant
and I have to give my eggs
then I will come back to the same beach
that I was born on to give birth again.
Even though,
turtles just like that they hatched,
they go in the ocean.
They go straight into the ocean.
So,
it is amazing how they remember
the exact coordinates
and come back to that beach.

(04:29):
Now,
what happens in this?
Because turtles are the same beach
so if you have to collect their eggs
and eat
then the eggs are over,
turtles are over,
and then the turtles will also reduce.
Eventually,
there are only so many times
that any animal can get pregnant
and get eggs
and eventually,
the eggs will be over.

(04:50):
That is why
this is why
we have to give a buyback scheme
Now,
what is the buyback scheme?
what is the use of the eggs?
This is why
they are buying the eggs
from the collectors
and then
relocating into their hatcheries.
This is the
government's initiative
of Malaysia.
What is the use of the eggs?
They are at the eggs
and collect them
and give them carefully.

(05:12):
They are very careful
and then they will go back
to the hatchery.
What is the case of the eggs?
they are very careful.
and they are very careful
because they are not
too careful.
The eggs are very careful
if they are not too careful.
and they are not too careful.
but they are not too careful.

(05:33):
they are very careful.
and they are very careful.
but one thing is that
what happens is that
these people who
eat for food
they are at least
now they are also
to save for food.
So this is a small
significant change
but recently
what happened is that
they have been banned
in eggs sales
so that
the buyback scheme

(05:54):
is now ineffective.
So they are trying to think
what are the new methods
just say
these people
can save the turtle eggs.
And
like I think
the discussion question
there for us as well is
whether this

(06:17):
conservation
like this is
this is being
done with a conservation intent
and this is also
like
as I said
like this is
getting
making lemonade out of
the lemons that
life has given us
because
this is what
the situation is

(06:39):
you know
for
any reason
any number of reason
people
are
posting
turtle eggs
mostly
I would imagine
because of their poverty
social
and
socioeconomic status
but
but
I think
they

(07:00):
like
chicken
eggs
or other eggs
probably
like
turtle eggs
are a delicacy
so
that
could also
be one of the
things
that could also
be one of the things
but obviously
it's free
right
if you
are
taking the beach
it's free
that could be a big

(07:21):
thing
like in
the poverty
angle that you're
talking about
yes
I think that's why
a lot of people around the world
hunt as well
and fish
you know
fish as a sport
is fishing or hunting as a sport
is also there
but fishing or hunting
as a source of food

(07:44):
because that's free
and that's
you know
largely
whatever you buy
you can store it
people hunt and store it
in the
these chest freezers
for like a
long long time
so
yeah
but I think
there
what I was
you know

(08:05):
the question for us
there is
even with this intent
is it
is it like
a
never ending loop
where
now
these poachers
are getting
a different incentive
compared to what they were
getting before
and

(08:27):
they are
they would
now
once
all the
eggs have been bought back
by the government
the government
or
what not
they would
still continue doing it
because
the government
is just buying it
is that
is that something

(08:47):
that's getting
inadvertently introduced
into this
situation
no
so there are
two things
now
basically
these turtles
come every year
to lay eggs
right
and then they have babies
and their babies
go into the ocean
and their babies come to
lay eggs
so that will continue
and there will always be

(09:09):
turtles coming back to lay eggs
so this
buyback scheme
is not something
for one or two years
it is for a longer period
because these turtles
will keep returning back
and that is what the government wants
that they are coming back to the
turtles
and they are becoming
more of the population
and they are becoming
more of the turtles
they don't want the turtles
to be decimated

(09:30):
because people
have to eat
all eggs
so this is why
this has come in
but there are also
these licensed
egg harvesters
that is what they are calling them
and then
they take the eggs
carefully and
then they send
the government
to the department of fisheries
and then
then they put it back
in the hatchery

(09:51):
now
what it says
in this
and I have shared the article
so
you know
you can
you can look at the article
so
basically
here
it is
that
during the five year study period
from 2016 to 21
Pulihara
the
organization
there

(10:12):
bought more than 71,000 green turtle
eggs
from 700 nests
and relocated them
to protected hatcheries
the outcomes were promising
but
at the same time
we do not know
that
the study didn't compare
eggs with
eggs
like
results
with eggs
left to hatch
naturally
none were left in place
basically
everything
and
you know

(10:33):
or
hatchery
or
the other
things
were placed there
if
it
would have been a better outcome
if
you would have left them in those hatching areas
and
if
we had put them in the other areas
then
that better
but at the same time it involves the community

(10:54):
the community
because
the community
people
have to save
eggs
but
still
the scheme's reach was limited
the
eggs
purchased represented just 2.1% of all eggs played annually over the study period
and protecting them cost about 65,000 US dollars

(11:17):
that means that even though there was this buyback scheme not everyone was interested
everyone was not able to protect them and they were protected by the eggs and turtles
and they were just eating their food
so
people
only
only
2%
you know
2%
eggs
of the full population
are

(11:38):
only represented
of these eggs
that they have
they have saved
like which was 71,000
turtle eggs
so
if
more people
participated in this scheme
then
there would have been more improvement probably in the total population population
but this brings
the question
oops
see
do you think

(11:59):
is it better to bring
such schemes
or is it better
that
same
money
they
train
to protect
the hatchery
where
eggs
are
and is that a better outcome
i think
my
my view
there would be
if

(12:20):
if
these
people
who are poaching
these eggs
they are not given an alternate source of income
then it's very difficult
they would
they would actually
want to
conserve
and protect
anything
because
again
if
they are not getting
same money
same money

(12:41):
instead of giving
you know
for the sale of eggs
for the sale of eggs
they would better
employ them
in monitoring and protecting these hatcheries
right
right
right
um
again
in the society we have created it's very difficult because once you employ someone then you have to follow certain obligations like you know paying them in a certain way or you know the cost exponentially increases for an employee

(13:02):
versus uh you know a per egg buyback scheme so i think the government i don't know the government might not want that um yeah so the lot of factors in play like conservation and
the cost exponentially increases for an employee versus, you know, a per-egg buyback scheme.
So I think the government, I don't know, the government might not want that.

(13:26):
Yeah, so there are a lot of factors in play, like conservation to conserve some, you know, to lead that effort.
Of course, it requires a lot of money, but also certain other factors like what I just said, a lot of factors will be in play.

(13:47):
And also, I didn't...
I think if government has to do it, just in the last episode, we spoke about this also, you know, how the poachers become protectors.
So, if it's possible in some areas in the world where these poachers have only become protectors,
because there have been government schemes and subsidies and basic awareness, you know,

(14:11):
that this animal is necessary for us.
Because obviously, the people who are eating, they also know that they are taking it.
Right?
That they are eating turtle eggs.
They also know that if they are finished, they will not be satisfied, because turtles will be
going to come in front of us.
There will be no turtles to give eggs if all eggs are finished.
So, if they are spread that awareness, then these people might want to become protectors.

(14:36):
And at the same time, they may have a little benefit of this.
Let's protect 80% and 20%, you know, we can leave them.
So, that 20% is for the people who have been enjoying them as a delicacy.
But even an 80% would be a big, big, big change from 2.1%.
I mean, if we take 10%, 20%, 50%, and the protection territory, that will increase.

(15:03):
That will increase.
That will increase.
That will increase.
So, in that, we have to balance the government a little bit.
Because only 2% are coming.
And with turtles, 71,005 years is not a lot.
Because turtles lay, I think every turtle comes back and lay.

(15:24):
So, I think up to 500 eggs sometimes.
So, that's a big, big quantity.
So, when there are so many eggs, we have to see that if they have to be able to do conservation,
then they will increase.
So, that's a big difference.
I think that that balance is the balance that is very hard to find.

(15:46):
It is also, again, government, the conservationists have to consider a lot of factors.

(16:07):
And, you know, this is why we need to take, you know, stop taking these eggs and just make
sure that even if we are taking eggs, we are taking for the right reasons, like, you know,

(16:29):
selling to the government, you know, and transporting them to the hatchery, etc, etc.
But, I think it's a very, like, I was just thinking about it.
Very, very difficult problem to solve because…
No, but, it's written in an article also that from my perspective, it seems somewhat inefficient

(16:52):
and potentially counterproductive to pay people to collect sea turtle eggs so that these eggs
can be buried, like buried again.
So, obviously, you know, the eggs already in the ground, you take them out, then you bring
them back and you put them back in.
So, obviously, it's a stress because you're transporting them and then you bring them back
So, it will be better to protect that area.

(17:15):
And, that's the stress, that's not the stress because the turtle eggs, you know,
where they take turtle eggs under the sand, there is this heat and the heat, because of
the heat, there is gender change of the turtles.
So, the ones that are closest, I think, you know, they are all females and then the ones in
the corners are males and opposite.

(17:36):
So, the temperature reaches the inside and outside of the eggs, the two of the eggs are
the gender that is determined.
So, if you are taking them out and then transport them, then it can be possible that the gender
was going to be disrupted.
Even the gender could be disrupted.
Everything could be disrupted.

(17:58):
So, if you are taking them out and then you don't have to be able to do it.
You can also take them out, you know, you can have to be able to do it.
You can also take them out.
You have to take them out.
the way to protect.
Excuse me.
Yes, I think that that is a good deal of, like good way for the government forward.
training people to protect.

(18:19):
Maybe making them guards or whatnot.
Yeah, cordoning of the area during the breeding season.
Like, you know, like we are here, in Orissa, there is an annual event.

(18:44):
And Aribada is when there are like these thousands, thousands and thousands of eggs come to.
Thousands and thousands of turtles come to give them eggs.
And there is like huge protection.
And, you know, people are not even allowed to go onto the beach at that point of time.
And I think it's the olive ridley.

(19:07):
Olive ridley.
Olive ridley.
So, olive ridley turtles.
And we actually are proud about it.
Like this time, I mean, there came in news outlets everywhere.
There was a big conservation effort.
There were so many turtles.
People got off the cordon.
People didn't come to pass.
People didn't feed them.
They had their own, you know, proper eggs.

(19:28):
No, but were we eating eggs?
We were not eating eggs, right?
Eating turtle eggs.
I think it would be delicacy in coastal areas.
Because I remember, oops, as you know, like I used to have a, you know, I used to have a pet turtle.
For those who don't know.
But I didn't, I didn't even know.
And when my friend gifted it to me, the turtles are illegal to be kept as pets in India.

(19:51):
Now, one of the main things that we found out that time was that illegality, it's a rise.
Because there's a lot of people, you know, like cut turtles up and eat the meat because they believe that it cures asthma.
Now, there's no scientific evidence to it.
But people were doing it.
And that is why turtles as pets or turtles in your house, even though many people are in the village and ponds, you know,

(20:14):
and wells in the village, it's still illegal to keep them as pets.
And this is the main reason.
Because people eat it.
So here, it's the same thing.
I don't know if they consume eggs or not.
But the turtle meat is also talking about consumption.
And I think there will be cool coastal communities.
So there is always like a, what would you say, dependency on whatever is found on the coast.

(20:42):
So it could be the trees, it could be the animals, it could be the fish, it could be whatever.
But I'm sure that turtle eggs would be a small part of it.
But it never became a big part because here, the conservation policies and roll out will be rolled out.
So people wanted to protect them, then eat them.
Because I am not entirely sure.

(21:07):
Again, eating a turtle, eating a turtle is a different thing.
Like if you eat that mother after she has laid eggs, that is thicker.
That like that is far less dangerous than eating a bunch of turtle eggs, right?
No, you are basically cutting the source of the eggs.

(21:30):
You are cutting the source of that egg.
And if there are enough, you know, turtles that are hatched.
If the young are not harmed.
Because the mother anyway doesn't take a part in hatching the eggs.
It just is the sand what does the work.
Yeah, there are like, I think there's also the thing of like, you know, turtles take a long time to mature, you know, and like reach reproductive maturity.

(22:04):
So that is also there.
But yeah, I think.
Turtle eggs.
Anything like anything to do with the turtle is an especially deep and dangerous problem because.
we don't like we as a human being, it's very difficult to comprehend the different systems.

(22:33):
Like the different ecosystems that one individual animal is part of.
And.
Yeah.
For.
Only with education and.
I think.
Repeated repeating of this message that.
We need to protect them for these reasons.
So our seas are better.
I mean, coastal communities.
Definitely.
They would depend on fishing and taking fish, you know, from the ocean as well.

(22:55):
From reefs as such.
And turtles, as we all know, as sort of the sculptors of.
Reefs and ocean beds.
So.
You know, taking that bit out, out of the ocean is.
Means that, you know, you have lost the architect of the ocean and things can grow, go wild down

(23:29):
There, which is not, not ideal.
So.
Woh taraf bhi dhyana rakhna zaruri hai.
Or.
I can understand.
I can almost imagine for someone who is not very well educated or, you know, not very, not been exposed to these things.

(23:51):
It might be very difficult to comprehend the, these concepts, but I think you're quite right in saying that, you know,
Bar bar bar bar bar, if we repeat this message and if we, you know, repeat this message of why we need to conserve this.
I think it's the same like, you know, um, agar hame kuch sikhhaate ha apne maap baap.

(24:14):
And then we are like, ki, pehle hee we resisted ki nahi aai hai.
Kya hee logic is me.
But then dheere bhi rhaar ki you understand the logic.
So same hai, jayse anything, like I mean agar polio ki campaign huye india me, so it was a big, big, big thing ki, acho, take your polio vaccine.
Ya agar, you know, the entire, joh family planning ke aabhi aggressively everywhere hoota hai ki family planning karo.

(24:39):
To ye awareness se hi hoota hai na.
To agar jab tak awareness nahi hooga, tab tak koi bhi campaign nahi chalega.
Because you have to put it into people's brains ki why is this important ki ki yun karna chahiye bhai hame.
To ye jab tak dhimag me nahi utrega ki haa yeh to important hai, yeh to karna bantah hai,
tab tak loog nahi karengahe.
Toh wo protectors bhi tabhi bantah hai.

(25:01):
Jab unko pada jalta hai ki haa, isko protect karne ki zhurat hai.
Ki ki hami aagir yeh khana hai, to yeh ko zindah bhi rahna padega.
Agar yeh zindah hi nahi hai, toh hum thai ni tes.
Exactly.
Yes, I think, so the two pronged approach in our view, I think.
One is making sure the conservation measures are strong and government is investing, you know, largely in conservation,

(25:36):
in making sure the areas are protected and the turtles are, you know, safe and undisturbed for the most part.
And secondly, obviously, is these, you know, spreading these kinds of messages where we are like, this is why we need to conserve these species.

(25:58):
This is why it's very important to the ecosystem.
This is how it will affect if this species is gone.
Having said that, having said that, I think that it's very important that they have to be the scheme.
Because this is, I think, the first time that I've heard of a buyback scheme.
Like there is no buyback schemes with wildlife and wildlife related cheeshe generally hee.

(26:20):
Because, you know, first the public, like, you know, you're putting the accountability on the public.
And the public is the public and the public is the same.
And they have to be that motivated.
You know, the price of the commodity has to be the same as, you know, I want to protect this animal.
And I want to protect this animal's eggs or whatever.
So this buyback scheme is quite novel.

(26:41):
And that is why we have read it on the headline topic.
Because we have heard it before, the buyback scheme.
So that way it's quite new.
And, you know, going back to protecting these hatcheries and having poaches become protectors is a very old concept.
I think because it's a lot of time when it's a lot of protectors become.
And it's a tested.
It's a tested and like it has been mostly successful in areas where it has been introduced.

(27:08):
So it is a time tested sort of strategy to mitigate these kinds of conservation issues or human animal conflict, basically conflicts.
But I had this question.
So the government is only buying back.

(27:29):
Like non sterile eggs, is that right?
Or like.
Non sterile.
So yeah, what is sterile and non sterile is in that way.
Like you're not really doing anything to make them sterile.
Chicken eggs and all, you on purpose make them sterile.
But what is non sterile, sterile concept?
No, I mean, I don't know.

(27:51):
Maybe the transportation is sort of, I don't know.
I mean, why would you.
If the eggs become.
Because their shell.
It's a soft shell egg as well.
The turtle eggs, right?
It's not.
I wouldn't say soft shell.
It's a very different kind of shell.
So basically turtles shell would have a rubber ball kind of, you know, what would you say.

(28:12):
Soft shell to have, but at the same time.
It can deform easily.
No, it can't.
That is the whole point.
So when the turtles lay the eggs, because the eggs drop on one on another and there are almost
up to 150-200 eggs at a time.
So the eggs can crash, right?
Or they can crash when chicken eggs type.
If they have shells, they will fall off.
But the rubber material is such that when they fall off, they will have soft landing.
And they don't really impact the other ones.
So that is a huge, huge thing turtles with.
So I think even when you transport them, if you transport them carefully, there will be
nothing else.
Because their outer texture or their outer rubber.
They are almost up to 150-200 eggs at a time.
So they can crash when they are in a shell.

(28:33):
So they will fall off.
But the rubber material is in a shell.
It is such that when they fall off, they are in a shell.
So they don't really impact the other ones.
So that is a huge, huge thing turtles with.
So I think even when you transport them, if you transport them carefully, there will

(28:54):
becuase their outer texture or their outer rubberiness or whatever their viscosity and the elasticity,
whatever you would call in the eggs.
That is amazing.
Like that is something that turtles have just for this.
They drop into the pit and they drop into the pit.
And what do they say in the pit?
So they drop turtle eggs one by one.

(29:21):
So I think that is kind of a requirement of this entire thing.
Like how turtles slay eggs and some other species as well.
Okay.
So I was just wondering about that.
Maybe it is not that.
Maybe it is too difficult for the government to check whether an egg is hatchable or not before buying the egg.

(29:51):
Like would the egg hatch?
So that was my question.
Is the government only buying eggs that would hatch or they're not caring?
I think.
And I think I've gotten my answer that it would be too difficult to individually check eggs for hatchability or whatever.
But yeah, no, that sounds.
In the short term, it is a great plan.

(30:15):
And thanks.
Thanks, Rujan, for the comment.
We've seen your comment.
Thank you for the support.
And yeah.
So I think we've spoken a lot that this turtle eggs and the buybacks.
And if you look at the turtle eggs, like eggs and turtles, in general turtles are an endangered species everywhere.

(30:37):
I don't think that like there are there's any place that they say that, oh my God, there are too many turtles.
I don't think that has ever happened or how many to come in.
So I, I think with turtles, we have to keep raising that awareness.
Yeah, we have to protect them and we have to, you know, keep saving them.

(30:59):
Like even if you want to consume them, that has to be the smaller percentage.
The protection has to be the bigger percentage.
Yes.
Speaking of that, a conservation effort gone right.
And now people asking to reverse that conservation status of an animal.

(31:27):
So there are 4,000 black bears in Florida.
This is a report from National Geographic.
The article is something like this.
The Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission will soon vote on a proposed black bear hunt.
The state's first since 2015.

(31:51):
Creating a contentious debate.
This follows a remarkable comeback for a species once on the brink.
Florida's pre-Columbian bear population of around 11,000 was, that is, that is a huge number.
Like, so that would be 11,000 was decimated by unregulated hunting and habitat loss due to development plummeting to fewer than 500 by the 1970s.

(32:19):
So that is, I think, 400 years, 10,500 bears killed in 400 odd years.
So that would be, what was the pre-Columbian era?
What was the pre-Columbian era?

(32:40):
That would be 1,600.
So, yeah, 300, 400 odd years.
So 10,500 bears.
Conservation efforts began after the bear was listed as threatened in 1974.

(33:06):
Again, had to be, kind of.
Leading to a major population rebound.
Proponents of the new hunt argue the bear population is now robust enough to sustain it, while opponents insist it is not.
Placing the future of this iconic animal at a critical crossroads.

(33:27):
I think this is...
I don't know if this is only America, but there was another report a couple of weeks ago.
I think the week we started the show.
So I would say five weeks ago.
Four weeks ago.

(33:48):
Where we saw that another state in America was trying to delist the grizzly bear.
Like delist it from a protected status.
And I think we talked about it as well briefly in our first episode.

(34:13):
But yes.
So I think this conservation...
This conversation will pop up again and again in this... in our lifetime.
So if...
If...
Animal species is protected and it has reached a new number where some...

(34:39):
A group of people feel that this is enough, this is sustainable, so we can hunt one or two bears...
Per year or per month or whatever they want to vote on.
Then...
I think...
And you tell me this...
If...
If...
This is because...
People want to hunt a lot of people.
So they are saying this...

(35:02):
Not because they think that bears are a lot of people.
It is because...
No, no, no, no.
No, no, no.
Definitely.
Definitely.
No, no.
So...
Humans grew up as this hunter-gatherer species.
So...
You know, evolved as this hunter-gatherer species.
So I think there is somewhere deep down...
We...
You know, a group of humans...

(35:23):
Some more than others...
Will have this hunting instinct.
And we enjoy hunting.
No, I don't think...
I mean, you cannot...
Glorify it.
Glorify it toho nahi.
Hunting ko.
No, no.
I am saying...
That...
We...
Enjoy it.
Hunting...
We enjoy the experience.
The entire point of hunting gathering...

(35:44):
Jab hum karte se...
Was for survival.
Not for pleasure.
Not for...
No, no.
But I am saying...
That has...
That has been embedded in us.
That is what I am saying.
But that was...
If we like it or not.
No, and that was different.
The hunting gathering...
No, I agree.
Was...
Was with spears and other tools that we had at that point of time...

(36:06):
I agree.
I agree.
And we were persistent hunters.
We were persistence hunters.
So humans...
They had...
We had nothing.
We had no nails, no teeth, no big body, no strength, nothing.
But...
If we were chasing a woolly mammoth...
The mammoth...
We would just wear it out.

(36:27):
That was our style of hunting.
We would chase, chase...
The woolly mammoth...
Every time...
The woolly mammoth would look back...
They would see this weird looking...
Half ape...
Half...
What...
What not...
Walking on two feet...
They are still there.
You are saying...
That...
That...
According to...
Whatever...
Evolutionary principles...

(36:49):
We were bigger...
Larger...
And wider...
And we were stronger at that time...
But you are saying...
That we were not stronger at that time...
That...
No, no, no...
We were...
Like...
Compared to woolly mammoth...
Compared to any animal out there...
We were not stronger than them.
So we had to be persistent...
So...
Humans were...
Like...
The...
The thrill of the chase...
That's what...

(37:11):
Humans...
Were...
But...
Also...
The point was...
That time...
When...
Hunter...
Gatherers...
Gatherers...
That used to be...
Supposed to be...
Like...
A big part...
Plus...
You used to have your...
Meat component...
And that would keep changing...
It could be as small as rabbits...
To something...
But...
Because...

(37:32):
You were...
Nomadic...
And...
You were...
You would...
What...
You would...
Eat...
And then...
You would go to the next place...
Like...
Once...
You were...
You stayed there...
For a couple of months...
You were like...
Yeah...
Here...
Here...
So...
The same...
Nomadic...
Like...
There are still...

(37:53):
Nomadic...
Sheep...
Herders...
As well...
So...
But...
The nomadic...
That is...
So that...
You know...
Like...
If you have exploited...
This environment...
It recuperates...
And then...
You know...
Like...
You again...
Hunt...
So...
Then...

(38:14):
You go...
There...
But...
The...
Like...
I think...
It's similar to what...
You would say...
Pride and...
Pride and...
Ego...
With...
Humans...
Like...
They feel very...
Proud...
And you know...
They have these...
Photos...
Of their hunts...
And everything...

(38:35):
But...
In general...
It's...
A...
It's...
It's...
It's...
No, humans were never at an equal level with any animal out there.

(38:56):
Humans were always that, you know, underdog.
No, no.
I mean, even now, you remember that documentary that we saw of these apes that were recorded in Africa for 23 years.
So then in that, they show that the small monkeys, they rip them off with their hands and eat them.

(39:18):
So they were primarily, you know, they would be having a vegetarian diet, but they would always rip these monkeys apart.
So anything that's smaller than you, you can rip them apart.
So like rabbits and smaller monkeys and smaller animals.
No, but how would you hunt them? Rabbits are faster than you.
Obviously, you have.
So the thing is, the ideal human of today is the same as ideal human 100,000 years ago.

(39:53):
No, I can't.
I said ideal.
Ideal human of today.
The relatively fit, relatively intelligent, relatively, you know, whatever other characteristics.
An ideal human of today is comparable to an ideal human of 100,000 years ago.

(40:20):
So that is, that is, that is, that is the, that is my point.
So.
But at that time, I'm sure that we don't have to be able to do our hands.
We could rip up.
I mean, comparable, like we, we, there is no evidence that we employed those things.
There is evidence of tools.

(40:41):
We made spears.
It goes back, I think 60,000 or 80,000 years.
Oh, that way, that way, there is no evidence, I mean, of, let's say, you know, a saber tooth.
Was that what the tiger was that time?
Yes, there is evidence.
Why not?
No, no, no, I'm telling you, if just because you don't rip it, that means that doesn't exist.

(41:05):
No, no, it might have, they might have ripped it.
They might have ripped a rabbit, but how would they catch it?
Catch the rabbit.
You have to run after that rabbit to catch it, right?
You have to use spears.
Oh, but you can always know where a rabbit is, right?
Yes, that could be possible.

(41:30):
But that is a thrill.
That is a thrill.
Exactly that is the thrill I'm talking about.
That is survival.
Why do they need to eat?
So at that time, it was survival.
So that is, that is my whole point.
At that time, it was survival.
But as if you keep doing a thing for 100,000 years, we have only been civilized for the last 5,000 years.

(41:52):
And humans appeared on the, like, sorry, not civilized.
We were only, we have only started settling and, you know, agriculture has evolved in the last 5,000 years.
And humans have arrived on this horizon, like, on this earth 100,000 years ago.
So, like, 1,000,000 years ago.

(42:14):
So that means for whatever duration of time, minus 5,000 years, you were hunting.
So that has gotten, like, you can, like, we can't even imagine that scale of 100,000 years, 1,000,000 years.
We have been doing something.

(42:36):
So that it has to have an, like, it has to be embedded hardware, whatever you call it.
It has to be embedded in us.
So that is what I'm saying.
Like, again, this is a rabbit hole, but.
Ha, ha, I would, I would say just because it's been done in a way that way, we were polygamers for a long time.
Or polyamorous, whatever you would say.
That instinct still exists in us.

(42:57):
It, it does, but.
Exactly.
Right?
And then people are more than happy.
Exactly.
Exactly.
We are happy with not having that instinct.
We are happy with, you know, with the society that we have created.
I mean, that, that is not openly spoken about.
So you can't, we can't really know.
There is no survey that could prove or disprove that, that.
If you talk about polygamy.

(43:19):
But, but.
But what I'm talking about is.
But what I'm talking about is.
That, what I'm talking about is.
That, what I'm talking about is.
Like, even now.
Like, what you're talking about hunting.
Most people who probably consume meat.
If you give them a knife in their hand.
Or even a gun in their hand.
Or a spear in their hand.
And tell them.
This is a live animal in front of you.
Shoot it.
Or hunt it.
Or kill it.
Nahi kar pahengi.

(43:40):
That is because they're used to these.
Supermarket ka package meat.
No, I agree.
So even if you think that instinct embedded.
I'm telling you.
At least 40% or 50% of the people.
No, no.
I'm not saying that instinct embedded.
I'm saying.
Humans enjoy hunting.
It might be 5% humans.

(44:01):
I don't know what percentage of humans.
But humans enjoy hunting.
And that's.
I'm trying to tell you.
It was never an enjoyable activity.
Nahi.
It was a survival activity.
We don't enjoy it.
So why is it enjoyment?
But why.
Why do these people hunt then?
What is the other explanation?

(44:22):
It's just pride and ego.
A lot of people.
Like.
No.
But if it's not giving you any.
Like if that pride and ego.
So.
You're saying just.
That that pride and ego.
Is what giving the.
What is giving the rush.
In those people.
That also is a.
That also is a.
Agreeable explanation.
If you see.

(44:42):
A lot of hunters.
I think majority hunters.
Are male.
And it's a lot of pride and ego.
Male component.
That comes into this thing.
Like.
That can be.
As opposed to.
Like hunting is not a very.
Very.
It's not a sport.
Like a lot of.
Females get attracted to it.
It doesn't happen.
In general.
Because females didn't hunt.
Arre bhai.

(45:03):
In the savannah.
Lionesses and all.
Okay.
If you're saying.
No.
No.
Humans.
Humans.
Human females.
I think it is.
Arguable.
Because it wasn't.
Even though.
You would say.
Like.
Whatever.
Evidence.
We can see from the tribes.
That is the evidence.
We have.
That is what I'm saying.

(45:24):
Like the remaining.
Tribes.
Till you did not have to.
Take care of the child.
You would have probably.
Gone and hunted along.
With the males.
Because what would you have done.
Otherwise.
The.
The.
Thing that.
Sympansies do.
Chimpanzee females do.
Exactly.
Just similar things.
No.
So.
The hunting gathering.
That you go hunt.

(45:45):
Gather.
Everyone goes hunt.
Gatherers for five.
Six hours.
Then they come back.
And they sit.
And gossip.
And do everything else.
Whatever the reason.
Chimpanzees.
And all.
They are all eating.
Whatever the.
There is.
A component.

(46:06):
Of hunting.
That we like.
For whatever reasons.
Like it might be pride.
It might be ego.
It might be that.
We have evolved.
In that way.
Whatever be the reason.
We.
Do like hunting.
We.
We.
Enjoy it for.
You know.
Whatever twisted reason.

(46:27):
There is.
In today's day and age.
And.
I think.
This.
This.
Whole conversation.
Is.
About.
Seeing.
Whether.
Whether or not.
That.
Urge to hunt.

(46:47):
Like.
For whatever reason.
That urge to hunt.
For some people.
Not everyone.
Enjoys hunting.
Like.
I might.
Like.
Like that.
Once in a while.
You know.
If I'm accompanying someone.
You know.
If we are planning.
And you know.
Tracking.
Tracking prey.
I might enjoy those.
Aspects of it.

(47:07):
But.
The actual hunting.
I.
Yeah.
It's like a.
A split second thing.
With.
With.
You know.
Powerful enough guns.
So.
Whatever be the reason.
People enjoy hunting.
But.
People enjoy hunting.
And.
This group of people.
In Florida.
Have decided.
That.
There are too many.

(47:28):
Black bears.
And they want to vote.
On it.
Which is their right.
Within a democracy.
They want to vote.
On this.
Matter.
And.
They want to decide.
Whether.
These bears.
Can be delisted.
So.
They can.
Start hunting.
These bears again.
Whatever.
You know.
I would imagine.

(47:49):
They would.
Like the people.
Who want to.
Make this.
Regulation.
Or change this regulation.
They would also have.
The brains to.
At least say.
That.
You know.
Will hunt.
X number of bears.
In.
In a.
In a year.

(48:09):
Or in a month.
Or whatever.
I don't know.
But.
They want to vote.
On that.
But.
But.
Who is keeping.
A check on the numbers.
Exactly.
Like.
That is.
That is the whole point.
That we were.
We wanted to make.
As well.
Like.
These numbers.
Are also.
Arbitrary.
Like.
You know.

(48:30):
We have to.
Like.
Somebody has to vote.
On these numbers.
Like.
Are these numbers.
Actually.
You know.
Actually.
The number of.
Ideal number of bears.
Per square kilometer.
Or whatever.
Scientists.
Will have to comment.
On that.
We can't really.
We can't really say.
But.

(48:50):
They have decided.
That.
They want to vote.
On this.
So.
I think.
That is a very.
You know.
Walking backwards.
Kind of.
You know.
Especially for.
Megafauna.
Especially for.
Animals.

(49:10):
And.
Species.
That.
Have.
You know.
Lesser number of.
Offsprings.
Number one.
And.
Take a long time.
To reach.
Reproductive.
Maturity.
So.
I think.
Especially for.
Those animals.
Um.

(49:30):
And.
Generally.
They're.
They're the.
Bigger animals.
The megafauna.
That.
Take a long time.
To.
You know.
Gestate.
Reach.
Reproductive.
Maturity.
And.
You know.
Have fewer.
Number of.
Offsprings.
Offsprings.
As well.
Um.

(49:50):
For those.
Animals.
It's especially.
Becomes.
Um.
You know.
Counterproductive.
Uh.
To see.
These.
These kinds of.
Questions.
Or these kinds of.
Um.
Topics.
Even brought up.
Um.

(50:11):
And.
I think.
This.
This.
This topic.
As I said.
Like.
This.
Conversation.
Is.
Dangerously.
Cropped up.
Twice.
In.
In.
Two.

(50:31):
In.
Within.
Within the span of two months.
And.
I think.
This has.
Only gotten the chance.
Like.
This only has the chance.
To cropping up.
Again and again.
Across the globe.
This has started from.
America.
As.
You know.
All.
Uh.
Questionable things.
I would say.
Often do.
Um.

(50:52):
But.
This has a chance.
Of spreading.
Worldwide.
What if.
Tomorrow.
Someone decides.
Oh.
It is.
Cool again.
To hunt tigers.
You know.
We have reached.
10,000 tigers.
In India.
Um.
And.
It's cool again.
To hunt tigers.
Let's.
Let's go hunt.
So.
I feel like.
There is a sleeper cell.
Of these hunters.
Who are like.
Very quiet.

(51:13):
And very.
You know.
Uh.
Under the blanket.
Of.
Conservation.
They support conservation.
Every.
Everything.
Right now.
But as soon as that threshold hits.
It might be.
Different threshold.
For different countries.
Different areas.
They would be like.
Oh.
We want to now vote on this.
And.
You know.

(51:33):
As a democracy.
It is the.
It is the right.
Of the people.
Um.
To vote on certain things.
Um.
So.
What is to say.
That doesn't happen.
To more and more species.
Um.
It is only.
a.
I would say.
A downward.
Spiral.
And a backwards walk.
Uh.
In that regard.
Um.

(51:54):
Yeah.
Um.
I just want to say.
Sorry.
To the viewers.
That there is some kind of.
Internet issues.
On my end.
And I've disconnected.
A couple of times.
Um.
I don't know.
Yeah.
I think Meghna.
Is facing.
Um.
Some issues.

(52:14):
The.
One of the.
One of the.
Uh.
Downsides.
To.
Doing.
A podcast.
Fully.
Remotely.
You have to.
Kind of.
Rely.
On.
Um.
On your.
Internet connection.
But.
Yeah.
Um.
And the discussion.
Question here.
For us.
Was.
When.
Is it appropriate.
Is it appropriate.
To hunt a species.
Recovered.
From near extinction.

(52:35):
And I think.
My answer would be never.
Like.
Once we've decided.
To conserve a species.
Then I think.
All our conversations.
To.
Um.
Should be around.
Saving that species.
Even if.
They have reached.
Some kind of imaginary threshold.
Um.

(52:56):
And there can be a threshold.
Scientists could.
Go ahead and say.
Okay.
This.
Is now.
And this.
This problem.
Has been happening.
Um.
In a lot of areas.
In India as well.
Where.
Um.
Tiger populations.
Have reached.
A number.
Where.
They're.
They're having.
Like.
Individual tigers.
Are having difficulties.
To figure out.

(53:16):
Their.
Their territories.
And.
Um.
You know.
They're.
They're seeping onto.
What we have termed.
As the buffer zones.
Or they're seeping into.
Human habitat.
Um.
But I think.
There are.
Conversations.
that we.
We.
We could rather have.
Than.
This conversation.

(53:37):
Oh.
There are too many bears here.
Should we.
Should we.
Try to.
You know.
Cull them.
Uh.
Should we try to.
Again.
That might not be.
Their.
Intention.
They.
They would.
They just want to hunt.
They want to enjoy.
The sport of hunting.
Um.
But.
Yeah.

(53:57):
My answer to the.
To that discussion question.
When is it appropriate.
To hunt a species.
Recovered from near extinction.
Would be.
Never.
We should.
All our conversations.
Should be around.
How to.
Conserve the species.
How to.
Make sure.
That they have enough.
Area to live.
Live.
Um.
You know.
Creating.
Joining.
National parks.

(54:19):
Joining.
Making.
Underpasses.
Making.
You know.
Wildlife.
You know.
Um.
Bridges.
And things like that.
Um.
Yeah.
What's your view.
Meghna?
Haan.
Toh.
Ek toh.
I'm sorry.
Again.
I think.
Bolte bolte.
Phir se.
I got disconnected.
Um.
I have no idea.
Hi.

(54:39):
Everything looks fine.
But still disconnection.
Um.
Secondly.
Um.
I would.
Also want to say.
Ki.
This is a English podcast.
But.
Oops.
Is not very.
Comfortable.
On camera.
Speaking English.
Take the camera off.
And he will be talking.
In English.
All the time.
Toh.
Aabhi.
Oops.
Is in full.
English mode.

(54:59):
And I am in.
The English mode.
Um.
Toh.
I think.
I'm actually surprised.
Ki.
Oops.
Said never.
Because.
I know.
Ki.
Oops.
Has gone on.
Hunting trips.
Toh.
Mujhe laga.
Ki.
He would.
Ki.
Haan.
Chike.
There is.
Some kind.
Of ideal number.
So.
I'm actually.
Quite happy.
To know.
Ki.
Even.
Usko lagta hai.
Ki.
Haan.

(55:19):
Like.
Never.
Is the answer.
Jab.
Tum.
Ittna.
Mehnat.
Karte ho.
Koi.
Animal.
Ka.
Population.
Badane.
Ke.
Le.
Then.
What is.
How can.
It.
Be.
So.
Counterproductive.
Ki.
Jaisi.
Bada.
Jati.
Yoh.
Like.
Haan.
Karte.
And this is where.
Me.
Ko.
I think.
Sab se zahada.
Problem ho.
Ho.
Ki.
We.
Play.
God.
To every animal.
Like.
Hame lagta hai.
Ki.
Haan.
Ki.

(55:41):
Ye.
Baad.
Kaya.
Hame lagta hai.
Ye.
Baad.
Kaya.
Hame lagta hai.
Aapne alawa.
Sab ko.
Marta hai.
Kye.
Kye.
Hame lagta hai.
Population.
A8 billion.
Se.
10 billion.
Se.
12 billion.
Se.
20 billion.
Ho.
Jai.
I don't think you can make that argument because it's illegal.
You know.
To kill one another.
You can't make that argument that.
Hame lagta hai.
Arre baba.
Illegal bhi.

(56:01):
Hame nahi kiya hai.
Toh.
No.
No.
But it is.
It is what it is.
Right?
So I'll tell you once someone told me that they went for this rainforest.
Um.
Not a concert like a rainforest music something for three four days.
Thikki.
Ho.
Hota ha.
Indonesia.
Koi rainforest.
Kanda.
Yeah.

(56:22):
Somewhere.
Toh.
Koi remote areas.
Me.
Hota.
And then like.
Most stages.
Sare bhi rainforest.
Ke.
And.
Dere.
Kai.
Pat.
You have to go from one stage to another through the rainforest.
So.
Us.
Time.
Thay.
Someone.
Told.
Me.
Ki.
Um.
When they went to that island or that village.
Toh.
E.
Poster lagawa tha ki.
I used to eat my uncle.

(56:42):
But not anymore.
Toh.
Like.
Till a while back.
Maha pey cannibalism chalta tha.
But ab nik chalta hai.
Toh.
Cannibalism was part of our.
Normal.
You know.
What do you know?
No.
I mean.
I'm saying that.
Until that becomes legal again.
We can't make that argument.
That we.
We are okay with killing every other species.
Except ourselves.

(57:04):
We can't make that argument.
Until it becomes legal again.
That is what I'm saying.
That's what I'm saying.
Ki.
Hamne usko illegal kiya hua hai.
We are okay with us overpopulating.
And in a lot of religions.
We.
Even.
Even now.
We say ki.
Oh.
You know.
We should just keep having children.
Because children are blessings.
So only human children are blessings.
And humans are blessings.

(57:25):
But everything else is.
Not a blessing.
That is.
My point ki bhai.
Matlab.
Ki.
Thik hai.
Ki humans toh.
Baati bhai hai.
Baaki sab bhai.
Thoda se bhai.
Baari.
No.
But I don't think.
I don't think.
I think every.
Every animal out there.
Things like that.
Like the tiger would not consider.
Uh.
Uh.
Faun would be.
Orphaned.

(57:45):
If it.
It's.
It's.
It's mother.
You know.
If we.
If we do that.
Then.
The whole.
Ecosystem.
Would not survive.
Like the whole food chain.
Would not.
Be there.
I'm not talking about guilt.
I'm talking about the fact that.
One.
When.
A tiger hunts.
And if you've seen a lot of videos of a tiger.
When.
No.
I'm saying the mental state of a tiger.

(58:06):
We have done it on a.
On a.
You know.
Humongous scale.
I don't know.
That's why this conversation is arising.
We have done it on a very large scale.
Compared to a tiger.
Or.
Other carnivore.
Or any other herbivore as well.
Like we have done it on a much larger scale.
But if we hadn't done it.
Then.

(58:26):
We couldn't have considered every other species.
When we.
Went about our day.
Right.
Right.
Now tigers are in our.
Like our hunter gatherer face.
Like that.
Tigers only hunt when they're hungry.
Then they finish their prey.
And then only they go to hunt the next one.
Which is why.
When they're hungry.
They're hungry.
They're hungry.
And they're hungry.

(58:47):
They're hungry.
They're hungry.
Because.
You know.
They're hungry.
They're hungry.
I'm not talking.
I'm not talking about the guilt.
I'm talking about the fact.
That.
We've been hunting.
You know.
We've been hunting.
We've been hunting.
You know.
We've been hunting.
Oh.
Is deer.
Is deer.
Is deer.
Is bird.
Is.
Or.
Is.

(59:07):
Or.
You know.
A.
But we have to understand these are different groups of people. One single person is not flip-flopping. We as a people, we as a community, we as a society are flip-flopping.

(59:39):
Because both groups of people are existing. What can we do? There are both groups of people in our society. So at one point, one group's voice is stronger. Other point, other group's voice is stronger. We can't do anything about that.

(01:00:08):
We don't realize we're playing God. Other animals also play God to some other animals, but they don't realize it.
They don't play God, brother. They're not actively just looking at one population and being like, yeah, we should do this with this. We plan.
That is our strengths. That has allowed us to evolve into this humongous 8 billion number.

(01:00:30):
That is our strength. Planning is our strength.
Like looking into the future, planning, etc. These are our strengths. But I do get that.
Just give me one second.
I think the point that Meghna was mentioning as well. I have gone on a few hunting trips and I do enjoy the, as I said, planning aspect of it.

(01:01:00):
Tracking the prey and making sure, you know, tracking their paths and making sure, you know, we have camera traps in place to track prey.
I do enjoy the thrill of hunting. I have gone on a few hunting trips.
But I think like we have to have some space for that hunting aspect of things to exist.

(01:01:27):
But for these kinds of animals that we have spent years and years trying to conserve.
So I think for animals, as I said before, for animals that have fewer offsprings, that has a longer gestation period, that takes long time to reach reproductive maturity.

(01:01:50):
You know, reproductive maturity.
These are the animals that, in my view, is never sustainable for hunting.
So I said never to our discussion question.
I would caveat that a little bit to say animals which take long time to reach reproductive age.
Animals which have fewer offsprings over their lifetime and animals that are, you know, have a long gestation period.

(01:02:20):
These are the animals that are not, never suitable for hunting because it would never be sustainable.
We would kill more than the, like the replacement of those animals would be slower than us killing those animals.
And that has led to only, you know, a certain, again, anything unchecked will decimate however quick the reproductive times are.

(01:02:49):
But in moderation, we can only, in my view, we can, we can agree to hunt animals which have, you know, faster reproductive times in the three areas that I mentioned, considering those.
So, yeah.
I mean, I would, I would say never for everything.

(01:03:10):
Because I would just say there are better ways to coexist.
Like, like, is not the solution for everything.
But here, actively as a human, we try to see what happens.
Because we, one, we don't do long term studies.
That, yes, that's how many animals are.
Even with invasive species, we don't do long term studies to see what impact is.

(01:03:32):
And, I mean, they actually impact them or not.
How much impact is, how much impact is, how much they actually have to step in.
Because animals, we give them less credit.
Like, I said, I said this last episode, also that, we don't know how much they can adapt.
But, they can adapt and we feel like it's not.

(01:03:53):
So, then, you know, we feel like we meddle in everything.
So, we introduce ourselves, then we say, oh, shit, we introduced ourselves.
We, we don't do this cycle.
That is the thing.

(01:04:15):
That is the thing.
That is, that is what we, we have to consider.
When we talk like this.
And, and I think, I think this is inevitable.
Like, if there are two articles popping up in the, in a span of, in a span of two months.

(01:04:40):
That is like, and both from America, you know, different states.
One for Grizzlies, one for Black Bears.
I think this, there's a, there's a strong chance, in my opinion, that other communities will also raise this as a topic of discussion.

(01:05:03):
It will enter the public discourse sooner than we expected.
Because, undoubtedly, like some of the conservation efforts around the globe has been really successful.
You know, Grizzlies and Black Bears is amongst them.
Project Tiger in India is one of the most successful programs ever.

(01:05:29):
You know, whale conservation is one of the most, you know, it's, it's one of the best examples of conservation.
Like worldwide, you know, coalition and worldwide agreement in, in, you know, banning whale hunting.
So, I feel like these conservation would rise, you know, sooner than we, than I expected at least.

(01:05:57):
And I was very surprised when I read the first article I'm talking about, like a couple of weeks ago.
Like, oh, and then it got me thinking that, oh, this can arise for other species as well.
Which is, which is a very, which was a very, like dangerous thought for me.
But yeah, I think the conservationists working in this area, and we would actually urge the government in Florida, the state government of Florida that, you know, they, they clearly have a position on this.

(01:06:35):
And that they communicate that position to the general public.
And if there is a legal provision to stop this vote, and not go ahead with this vote.
If there is a legal way, not, not, not, you know, not taking away anyone's rights or meddling with anyone's rights.

(01:06:56):
If, if, if, if there's a legal way to stop this, then go ahead and do it.
But if this vote has to go through, because it is the citizens rights, I fully agree with that as well.
But then put out that message that this is the government position, and this should be the public's, like, try to influence the public in voting against it.

(01:07:20):
Yeah.
Cool.
Do we, Meghna, do you want to move to the next topic that you have in your, on your decks?
Decks or decks?
Dock.
Dock it.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
So the other topic that I want to talk about, and this is where, in India.

(01:07:46):
I am here.
So, Kumki elephants diverted the wild elephants back to the forest, Andhra Pradesh.
I will read out the small blog.
In a pioneering wildlife management operation dubbed Operation Kumki, Andhra Pradesh deployed three trained Kumki NFL elephants named Krishna, Jayant and Vinayak, to guide a herd of 14 wild elephants away from farmland near Mogili village and back into the Kaudenya wildlife sanctuary.

(01:08:15):
This marked the state's first successful use of Kumkis for conflict mitigation.
These Kumki elephants were sourced from Karnataka and underwent two months of training before deployment.
Their effectiveness has been framed as a template for resolving recurring human elephant conflicts in border regions.
And they are going to try and use the same method in other areas.

(01:08:37):
Now, the discussion question here is that could prolonged training and use of Kumki elephants affect their welfare and natural behaviors,
and how should such programs balance animal well-being with conservation needs.
So, there are two things here.
So, obviously, the elephant-human wildlife conflict we have spoken about last time.

(01:08:58):
Where there is agricultural land, where there are especially bananas, jackfruit, such a type of plantations.
Some of the people who are afraid of the elephants, which are very tasty, is that elephants come into these plantations every time.
And because they come into the plantations, people and elephants keep a little tussle of this thing.
You know, that elephants are coming.

(01:09:20):
And there are many places where elephants come.
And they come into the plantations.
And they come into the plantations and plants.
And so they come into the plantations and plants.

(01:09:41):
And so they come into the plantations.

(01:10:02):

(01:10:23):

(01:10:44):

(01:11:05):

(01:11:26):

(01:11:47):

(01:12:08):

(01:12:29):

(01:12:50):

(01:13:11):

(01:13:32):

(01:13:53):

(01:14:14):

(01:14:35):

(01:14:56):

(01:15:17):

(01:15:38):
And like one which is tamed.
And domesticated.
And under control of Mahavat.
So yeah.
I think this is a very good use of the resources that we already have.
I would say.
But it's not what we already have.
Like let's say that if you have successful here.

(01:16:00):
Many places are successful.
Then we don't know that these people will take the plantations.
And then they will torture them and train them.
So that the wild ones.
That could be.
You know relate more with the wild ones.
That could be.
That could be.
That could be.
That could be.
That we will have to keep an eye on.
And we will definitely report if that happens.
And if we get any reports like that.

(01:16:22):
But for now I would say.
Yeah.
For now.
If you are using.
Because.
And there will be elephants that will be born in captivity.
For sure.
For a long time.
For a long long time.
Yes.
But it also depends on where.
In the word of the elephants.
Like the people of the elephants.
They are always.
Temple elephants.
Temple elephants.
They are always.
Temple elephants.
And they are used in temple celebrations.

(01:16:44):
And these temple elephants.
They are suffering.
Because of the kind of concrete floors.
And everything that they have to stand on.
And their feet crack.
And their feet are cracked.
And their feet are different.
And the way they are used.
And the way they are used.
They are blessing.
And they have to make money.
And they have to make money.
That is different.
But also with these animals.
Even if they are in captivity.
There are some places.
Yes.
Generally.

(01:17:05):
Where elephants are found in the forest.
They are lost.
Or injured.
They are different.
That you bring them back.
And you train them to be like this.
But let's say.
If they are successful.
Then we started bringing more and more.
Wild elephants to train them.
I don't know.
I am not comfortable.
Because one.
The training is.
Is hard.
Like.
You know.
We spoke.
The training is not.
Very humane.
Like.

(01:17:26):
I mean.
If we had to go through.
That kind of a training.
I think.
We wouldn't even survive.
Through such kind of a training.
But they do.
So.
That's it.
I feel like.
It is good and bad.
It's.
It's.
It's.
Dono.
Cheize.
For me.
Okay.
Human.
My life.
Conflict.

(01:17:47):
Cheez.
Mal.
Yeah.
But.
Ye.
Cheez.
We'll have to keep an eye.
Keep an eye.
That this doesn't become the norm.
Um.
Yeah.
But I think as long as.
They're.
They are.
Not.
Taking.
Elephants from the wild.
Especially for this purpose.

(01:18:08):
I think.
This.
This might be.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Let me just.
Share the article.
With you guys.
Uh.
About the.
To the elephants.
Yeah.
As long as.
They're.
As long as.
They're.
As long as.
They're not taking.
Um.

(01:18:29):
Elephants from the wild.
Specifically.
For this purpose.
Or any purpose.
Let it be.
Any purpose.
Um.
This.
This.
This is a good use of.
The available resources.
I feel like.
Um.
This is the article.
And this is where they're talking about.
How the elephants.
Have been diverted successfully.

(01:18:51):
Um.
Let me try to find.
Um.
Let me try to find.
Agar mein woh bhi rhun kaati ho.
Jahape woh elephant to.
Tiger nae attack tiya.
To safari me.
Haan.
That has.
That.
That was a.
Um.
I think.
2017.
I want to say.
2016.
17.
Um.
But yeah.
That was.

(01:19:12):
Um.
And I think.
Hunting as well.
That happened.
Across India.
Different.
Uh.
You know.
The Maharajas.
That used to go hunting.
Um.
They.
Also.
Took elephants.
Um.
To.
To go hunting.
Because.
As I said.
Like.

(01:19:33):
That was one of the.
Ways.
To.
Um.
To make sure.
That.
You're largely.
Like.
Ineffected by.
Um.
Wild.
Other wild animals.
Tigers.
Hyenas.
Wolves.
Um.
And all the other.
Carnivores.
That.
That are.

(01:19:54):
Present.
In.
In a jungle.
In a jungle.
But yeah.
I think.
It's this one.
My.
Hibar.
Chalak.
I think.
It's this one.
My.
My.
A.
A.
It's a very.
Expelative.
film video.
So.
Let's not play that.
Um.

(01:20:15):
And.
And.
You can't really see.
You can't really see the.
The.
attack happening very clearly.
Because I think it.
It was very.
Fast.
And.
It was.
It was.
It was.
a.
It was.
a.
better one than this.
jubi.
jubi.
jubi.
jubi.
jubi.
jubi.
jubi.

(01:20:36):
jubi.
jubi.
jubi.
jubi.
jubi.
jubi.
jubi.
jubi.
jubi.
jubi.
jubi.
jubi.
jubi.
jubi.
jubi.
jubi.
jubi.
jubi.
Yes.
Um.

(01:20:57):
But yeah.
No, I think.
This is.
This is.
This is good.
Um.
Again.
The.
The human animal conflict.
exists right now and it's only going to increase I think.
Uh.
Especially with elephants who.
Who are much.
gentler.

(01:21:18):
In terms of.
If you leave them alone.
And they like to feast on as we.
You know talked about a couple of episodes ago.
Uh.
Feast on all the human stuff.
You know delicious human stuff.
Um.
Um.
You know all the waste.
That humans generate as well.
But also like the plantations etc.

(01:21:39):
So.
Um.
I think.
This along with.
Better management of.
And better education around.
Um.
The.
Bordering communities.
Huh.
I think.
This should be.
This could be one of the methods.
But it shouldn't be the main.
No.
There should be other methods.

(01:22:00):
Uh.
Yeah.
You know.
Uh.
Um.
The.
The chia seeds.
The chia seeds.
The plantations.
The chia seeds.
The elephants get deterred.
They don't come towards the.
Uh.
You know.
Towards the food plantations.
Or something.
Or some other kind of.
Um.
You know.
Plant based barrier.
Or some other way.
Of deterring them.

(01:22:21):
Maybe.
Like.
Uh.
Speakers with these sounds.
Of the plates.
Being hit.
You know.
In the evening.
Or any kind of thing.
But.
This should only be.
Jab.
Bohuti.
Aise situation.
Ajaay.
Ke.
Haan.
You know.
We have to.
Use these elephants.
Because.

(01:22:42):
Wannato.
Dependency.
He.
Is.
Completely.
Only for this.
But I think.
They are used by the.
They are owned by the forest.
Forest department.
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
They are.
They are owned by the forest department.
So.
Yeah.
That.
It.
Will have to sort of.
Depend.

(01:23:03):
Or.
Rely on the forest department.
To use its resources.
Um.
As.
Well.
Uh.
And in a.
In a.
Sustainable fashion.
I think.
And I think.
Um.
You know.
When to use those elephants.
And what situations.
To use those elephants in.
Because everyone is a.
Trained.
Officer there.
Giving the orders.
Um.

(01:23:24):
But.
Um.
I think.
Yeah.
As you were saying.
Like.
This cannot be the only way.
Or this shouldn't be the first.
Line of defense as well.
Like.
This comes in.
Much.
Much.
Later.
Uh.
At a.
Much.
Later stage.
Um.
Cool.
Yeah.
Do we.

(01:23:45):
Want to move on.
To the next one.
Sure.
Sure.
Sure.
Let's do that.
Um.
So.
This one is very interesting as well.
Um.
I found it very.
Intriguing.
So.
This is.
A report again.
From the times of India.
It says.
Nothing goes to waste.
Uh.
Denmark's zoo.
Asks people.
To donate their pets.
To feed its predators.
Assures.

(01:24:06):
Animals will be gently.
Euthanized.
Um.
Um.
Alborg zoo.
In northern.
Denmark.
Has.
Introduced.
An unusual program.
Asking the public.
To donate.
Unwanted.
Pets.
Not for rehoming.
But to serve as food.
For its captive predators.
The zoo.
Announced via Facebook.
That healthy animals.
Such as rabbits.

(01:24:27):
Guinea pigs.
Guinea pigs.
Guinea pigs.
Horses.
And chickens.
Are suitable donations.
These pets.
Will be gently.
Euthanized.
By trained.
Staff.
The zoo.
Defends.
This controversial.
Practice.
By stating.
It mimics.
The natural food chain.
Supports.
Animal welfare.
And.
Ensures.

(01:24:48):
The natural.
Behavior.
Nutrition.
And.
Wellbeing.
Of its carnivores.
Asserting.
Nothing goes.
To waste.
This initiative.
According to the zoo.
Alliance.
With its core mission.
Of conservation.
Sustainability.
And.
Education.
Aiming.
To provide.
Natural.
And responsible.

(01:25:09):
Source.
Of sustenance.
For its wild animals.
Um.
This is interesting.
To me.
Because.
One.
Number one.
That they have.
Identified.
This.
Novel.
Way.
Of.
Feeding.
The predators.
And.
They're.
They're.
Giving.
All sorts.
Of.

(01:25:30):
Reasons.
For it.
That they're.
They're.
They're.
Giving.
All sorts.
Of.
Reasons.
For it.
That there.
Might be.
Their own.
And.
Secondly.
I don't know.
If this is.
Subtext.
But.
They.
Want.
To.

(01:25:51):
Utilize.
The.
You know.
Unwanted.
Pets.
Because.
We.
Have.
A habit.
We have.
A bad habit.
Of.
Leaving.
Something.
Or.
Euthanizing.
It.
Ourselves.
If.
We.
Somehow.

(01:26:12):
Can't.
Take care.
You know.
We are.
No longer.
Feel.
We no longer.
Feel.
Attached.
To it.
Or.
Whatever.
I don't know.
What the reasons are.
But.
For.
N.
Number.
Of.
Reasons.
To.
To.
To.

(01:26:33):
To.
To.
The.
The.
Child.
Realizes.
And.
To.
To.
To.
To.
To.
To.
To.
To.
To.
To.
just keep holding the zoo and keep doing it. So then try to send them to another zoo or to some other conservation program or to some other place or to some other rehabilitation program or something like that. Then asking people, "Honey, give your own family, we'll have food". That I don't think is great. Secondly, if you've seen their wording, they're like "Ginny pigs, horses, give them all these. But not your dogs or cats".

(01:27:16):
If you don't love these animals that much, take them. You'll not feel that much pain. You're not asking for your dogs and cats. Keep them with yourself. There are two blaring problems here. One, what animals they're asking for. Two, they're asking for animals.

(01:27:36):
Why if you haven't like, it's almost like saying, I've opened a business and I'm like donations.
No, but I think the first point that you mentioned, I would say this, that
like the meat that is fed to the carnivores in the zoo, they are like frozen, you know, dog food.

(01:28:00):
They don't even defrost it. They just give that frozen chunk to, they just throw it in the pen or they just throw it in the cage.
That's all. Dog food, the unwanted parts of beef. The unwanted parts of beef and pork becomes dog food.

(01:28:20):
So they give it frozen because they store it in, they buy it in huge quantities and store it in freezers.
And then they, they give it frozen. Why?
Because defrosting would cost money.
Okay. So then they defrost the tigers.

(01:28:42):
I don't know. They, they just wait for it to defrost or maybe bite into the ice or whatever.
I don't know what they do, but, um, I think some years ago, a video went viral of like a trainer feeding
the animal, but the thing I took away from it was they're giving these frozen meat to the animals in the first place.

(01:29:05):
So are you telling me, that's why they're resorting to this?
Yeah.
Maybe I don't, I don't know why.
Maybe there, yeah, there, there, there could be, there could be that, which I feel like it's unlikely, but more likely reason in my view would be
So they have run out of funding in some shape or form.

(01:29:28):
So pets would be like free.
They would be like free.
Yeah.
Because like, if they're asked, like, I, again, I don't know the entire thing and the article doesn't mention all the,
all the details about it, but I think, um, oh, actually the Albok zoo has.

(01:29:49):
This was announced in, in a Facebook post by the Albok zoo.
And I'm just sharing the Facebook post.
Um, again, this is in Danish.
So we wouldn't be able to, uh, know what exactly is written, but, uh, where's the translate feature?
Where's the translate feature?
Oh, is it not there on the web version?

(01:30:12):
But anyway, um, they've posted a picture of, uh, caracal or links.
I feel like, um, yeah, caracal in India, but maybe there it's links.
Um, so yeah, so they, they, they're, they're wanting pets for, and there is a link actually.

(01:30:33):
Let's open that link up.
I'm interested in seeing what this is actually.
Um, but yeah, they've put out a Facebook post.
So it could be that they have run out of money or not run out of money, but they are trying to sustain
or trying to find other ways of, um, okay.
So this is the website.

(01:30:55):
Um, this is the page.
Translate.
Translate.
I'll translate it.
And.
Wow.
Would you like to donate an animal for feed?
At Alvog Zoo, it is our responsibility to ensure our animals healthy, natural, and species relevant diet.
Again, this is like translated.
So again, I, we don't know the accuracy of this, this translation.

(01:31:17):
Therefore, we gratefully accept animal donations from both private individuals and businesses for killing.
and slaughtering with us.
I think.
If they're only asking.
Um.
Yeah.
Have they specifically mentioned like guinea pigs, horses and all of that?
That's mentioned.
Yes.
I think the whole year.
Um, we receive both horses and smaller praise, such as guinea pigs, rabbits, and chickens.

(01:31:41):
And chickens.
If you have a request for other animals, you are welcome to contact us.
Please note that we do not accept other predators, such as dogs and cats in donation.
Good.
Um.
Yeah, I think dogs and, accepting dogs and cats would cause other type of uproar.

(01:32:01):
But anyway.
Um.
Either way, I think it should be an approach because by you opened a zoo, you are not able
to sustain it.
And then the entire, I think what they've written in the article is that, uh, about the zoo, the
Albor zoo focuses on conservation, sustainability and education.

(01:32:22):
And yeah, that's what they're saying in this, this website as well.
Um, and they're giving, I think five Danish Danish kroners per per kilo, um, to, you know,
for the, the, for the horse meat or whatever.
And they've mentioned, oh, the horse should be maximum 147 centimeter in pole measurement,

(01:32:42):
and they should have a passport and things like that.
Passport?
I think, yes, the horse passport.
Yes.
There, there must be something again.
Let's not worry about that.
But I think if it is for the animals that would be killed either way, then this is good, right?
Haa.
So yes, there are, there are certain times when basically, you know, this animal is suffering

(01:33:07):
or this animal, you know, is too old and we shouldn't put it through one more winter or
we shouldn't, you know, make it suffer.
That is different.
That's right.
You know, this animal is anyway suffering and this animal is not living a good life.
So let's euthanize it.
Then, then you can give it to the zoo.
But at this point of time, like you said, I think it should have run out of money.

(01:33:30):
Then donations among the people's pets.
No, but, but, but, but I think that I'll have to change that position because they're giving
five Danish kroners per kilo.
Yeah, but you have to compare it with how much they would have given if they would be
outsource.
That is also true.
But I also don't think nobody would like public, the people in the public would not give away

(01:33:54):
animals for such little money.
if they were not being killed, killed either way.
And, and the thing is that even if you, even if it is something, even if it is an animal
which you are euthanizing, a lot of people are very close to their rabbits and their horses.

(01:34:18):
maybe not to, and guinea pigs, maybe not to chickens.
Sometimes chickens may not be a pet, but I've seen where chickens are also pets and people are very,
very, you know, attached to them.
So if you are saying that, give them.
Even if they have to euthanize, so there might be a corner for people where they want the animal to be buried.
You know, just the same like humans, they're like, oh, man, they're like,

(01:34:40):
they're like, oh, you know, you're going to be a pet.
You know, you're going to be a pet.
You're going to be a pet.
So, you're going to be a pet.
But I believe not everyone would.

(01:35:02):
But that's that's the choice left to the people donating.
Right.
That's not a that's not enforced that you have to donate or you have to give it to us.
Right.
It is.
It is an individual choice.
Like it's a choice.
But I am also very surprised that they came up with something that bored.
Like, what love?
Like, how is this not something that angered people?

(01:35:23):
Like, we are going to be our pets.
I mean, if you are not able to eat it.
You are going to be our pet.
So why are you coming after us?
You can just, you know, send your predators off to other zoos.
Keep the herbivores there if you're not able to provide for all animals.
Yeah, I think I don't know.
Maybe I don't know.

(01:35:44):
Again, we can only speculate here.
But maybe Alborg is.
This is my problem with zoos in general.
It is a huge maintenance project.
Right.
From that, it is better to leave the wild animals in the wild.
Than like bring in.
To make them an enclosure.
To make them an enclosure in jail.

(01:36:05):
Then they will keep them in jail.
Then they will give them a frozen meat.
Then they will source the meat.
And the awareness of this now is happening.
A lot of people prefer to go in the wild.
Or are trying to go in the wild.
It is, you know, then try to go to a zoo.
So when zoos are.
No, but zoos, like zoos have a long legacy, right?
We also have to consider that.

(01:36:27):
Like zoos have a long legacy.
So there are thousands and thousands of animals that have been born in captivity.
So for a long, long time.
Even if there is a legacy.
Let's say that you have your cassettes.
Okay, cassettes had a legacy for a long time.
But they have been released.
No, no, no.
I am saying those animals cannot be released back into the wild.
Okay.
Not the ones that are there.
But I am saying in general zoos need to start phasing out.
If they are starting to come up with these kinds of problems.

(01:36:48):
We don't have enough visitors coming.
So there is no money to get meat for our own animals.
So you give your animals and we will kill them.
So you don't come to that stage as a zoo.
Yes, I think.
I think we.
This is a pretty.
So for smaller animals such as chickens, rabbits and guinea pigs.
They are giving hundreds of thousands of animals.
And they are starting to come up with these kinds of problems.
We don't have enough visitors coming.
So we don't have enough visitors coming.
So we don't have enough money to get meat for our own animals.
So you give your animals and we will kill them.
So you don't come to that stage as a zoo.
Yes, I think.

(01:37:09):
I think.
We.
This is.
This is a pretty.
So for smaller animals such as chickens, rabbits and guinea pigs.
They are giving a hundred Danish kroners per.
Per.
Per.
Tax deduction per animal handed in.
Oh, it's the tax deduction.

(01:37:31):
Not, not, not a physical cash in hand.
Um, but I don't know.
I don't know the motivation behind this.
Maybe it is too.
Uh, I don't know.
I have no idea.
Motivation behind this.
It must have been like this crazy brainstorming meeting.

(01:37:52):
He, he, it's getting more expensive to feed our predators.
So.
So someone must have been like, yeah, okay.
He tried to.
He tried to.
He had a Facebook post or a link.
That could have been the case.
That could have been the case.
Um, but there might be.
That like, it might be as said in this article as well to ensure our animals have a healthy,

(01:38:20):
natural and species relevant diet.
That could be the case.
We never know.
Like benefit of the doubt.
Shai.
Then I say, I don't know.
Um, but it's quite shocking.
Like, I don't think something like that would fly in India.
Like we go like the people who are left, right and sector just, uh, you know, bash the zoo.

(01:38:42):
No, I think this would, this would fly in like huge farming communities where a large number of animals like horses are euthanized and made into dog, dog food.
Anyway, I think this is, those are the communities that would fly in.
Um, and that's why.
Like the, like not large farming, but any kind of farming community where there is a longstanding norm of, you know, retiring.

(01:39:11):
Older or not usable horses, cows, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
And then just sending them to the butcher to be made into dog food.
You know, that, that, that kind of stuff, like, like milking cows when they can't produce any more milk, they're sending to the, um, into the butcher, like slaughterhouse to be made into dog food.

(01:39:33):
Right.
Um, so, and, and cheap beef for human consumption as well.
Um, so those kinds of communities.
And I think that is the interesting part here because this article was reported in times of India, because it might be very foreign concept for us, but maybe for these people, maybe it's normal.

(01:39:54):
Um, I don't know.
Um, that's why they're so blatant, like, like not blatant, but unfazed by any of this.
I don't know if I'll, I'll just have a quick look, but I don't know if any Danish media or anyone else has reported on this.
Um, because it's really weird.
Um, the times of India, the article, the type of, uh, yes.

(01:40:17):
So, um, oh, actually ABC news, NBC has also reported.
Okay.
Okay.
Um, RNZ has also reported on it.
Okay.
One news.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it is surprising for people.
So weird.
There is a poll also, right?

(01:40:39):
There is a poll.
What do you think about, about Zeus practice of accepting pets for food?
I think just, uh, share that article further.
That poll portion you have to show to me.
Um, and then someone on Reddit is saying that wouldn't mind my body donated that why that's that way.
When people ask what happened, my family can truthfully respond.

(01:41:02):
I was eaten by a tiger in Denmark.
Oh shit.
So, um, yeah, so I think people are wondering about it.
There are, I mean, if there are Reddit posts, then that means people are talking about it.
Like a lot of, um, you know, people with a lot of free time on their hands are talking about it.

(01:41:25):
So, um, yeah, I think it's interesting.
Oh, Guardian has reported on it as well.
Okay.
Now, now we can't keep it out of the news if Guardian has reported on it.
Um, no, but, but it's good.
I think everybody finds it weird then.
My, my logic was wrong.
Um,

(01:41:46):
I think, um,
I think it's a good question.

(01:42:07):
Alwag zoo's practice of accepting food for predators.
I'm going to say,
Oppose it.
Oppose it?
Yes.
I'm going to oppose it because I do not know what kind of like what,
at least what I feel just from this episode.
Like what, what would be the things you would have to consider to support it or oppose it?

(01:42:29):
Like what would be your, like all the information that you would need to go either way.
See, I think oppose it.
Oppose it.
No, no.
Go either way in a, with a logical reasoning in your mind.
See, oppose it, you don't need a lot of reasoning because it is not normal for anybody to ask for your pets to feed their animals.

(01:42:52):
So pets are getting made, like those pets are getting made into like dog food anyway.
You do not know.
Right.
I'm just saying in general, if you're going to talk about someone asking for your pets,
that is the general answer that you would oppose.
That this doesn't stand.
Like then if you're going to actually say yes, then you have to take those into consideration.
Are there, are there these animals that need to be euthanized?

(01:43:15):
Can these animals be given to them?
Is this something that people are willing to do?
I'm very attached.
Yeah.
I don't even know.
Like how Denmark works.
Are they not as attached to their pets?
Will they be giving up?
Maybe.
We do not know their cultural significance with their animals.
So we do not know that maybe giving them is easy to be able to give them.
That is why they were bold enough to put such a Facebook post.
But in the rest of the world, it's not okay.
So that's why the articles are all over there.
So that's why the only thing I would need to support it is if the pet owners are okay with it.
If the general public is okay with it.
If the general public is okay with it, I am also okay with it.
Like, I am also okay with it.
Like, I don't know.
There might be different reasons.
But I don't know if it's not okay with it.

(01:43:36):
So that's why they were bold enough to put such a Facebook post.
But in the rest of the world, it's not okay.
So that's why the people are all over there.

(01:43:57):
Are okay with it.
I am also okay with it.
Like there might be different reasons, but it doesn't seem like harmful in a wider sense.
Okay, let's vote on oppose and let's see if the poll shows how many people voted either way.
It says that you have to log in.

(01:44:20):
Okay, no, we're not doing that.
But yeah, I think more than anything, I find that amusing.
And I don't know, we'll report on this.
If there's an updated article, if it's published, then we will report on this.

(01:44:45):
I logged in.
Oh, did you?
Yeah, and 60% are opposing it, but 40% are actually supporting it.
That is a big amount still.
Like I would have thought it would be 90, 10 or 80, 20, but 60, 40.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Cool.
So, yeah, I think we should wrap up our today's show there.

(01:45:18):
Yeah, do we have any questions for the audience or do we have any messages for the audience?
Yeah, like one, two things.
One, obviously, did you enjoy the English format?
Of course, this is our first time trying so it's not perfect.
And maybe Oops might be comfortable by the next one.

(01:45:41):
We do not know.
But also it's the state of New Zealand for too long.
So, you know, the Desi genes are reducing and the New Zealand genes are taking over.
But, yeah.
Secondly, obviously, what did you think about the topics that we took up, especially the last topic?
Like what do you feel about?

(01:46:02):
Yeah, I think what do you feel about, Magnus connection might have dropped off, but what do you feel about, you know, this whole situation in general?
And again, we'll wrap it up now, but don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel and follow if you're watching on Instagram, Facebook, Twitch or, you know, YouTube, wherever.

(01:46:32):
And give us a like and to comment your views as Meghna asked those different questions.
It helps out a lot.
If you're listening to a recorded version of this podcast on your favorite podcasting platform, do leave us a rating.
That helps out a lot with the algorithm.
And yeah, that's it for today.

(01:46:53):
And we'll see you next Sunday.
Same time, same channel.
Have a good one, guys.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Thank you.

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