August 6, 2025 • 56 mins
Hey everyone!
I’m really excited to share with you all my conversation with the thoughtful and inspiring Alexa Pavan, aka @GoGreenWithAlexa.
We dive into everything from accessible sustainability and composting, to coral bleaching, water bottles, and beach cleanups. It’s a chat about progress over perfection, the importance of small, everyday actions, and finding hope in the face of big, global challenges.
We talk:
- 🪸 Coral reefs and climate change
- ♻️ Reducing waste without shame
- 🌱 What it actually means to live sustainably
- 💚 How individual choices can ripple outward
- 🌍 Interconnectedness, agency, and actionable hope
It’s full of insight, encouragement, and gentle reminders that we don’t have to do everything—but we can all do something.
As always, thank you for listening to The Wild Life. If you’d like to help continue making episodes like this possible, you can join for as little as $1 per month (a penny per piece of content) at www.patreon.com/thewildlife. Your support means the world—and makes this work sustainable (see what I did there?).
-Devon
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey, everybody, it's Devin.
And this is the wildlife.
The world is shifting, and notin a subtle blink and you miss it
kind of way.
It's loud, it's fast, it's sweaty.
Temperatures are climbing.
Storms are flexing harder.
Coral reefs are bleaching likelate 90s, early 2000s boy band hair.
(00:22):
And crops, well, they'recropping out, get it?
Like crap, crap and crap.
Crap.
Oh, callows.
Humor in response.
The word sustainability is everywhere.
On products, on storefronts,on press releases and political stages.
(00:43):
But with all that buzz, it'seasy to feel lost.
What actually matters?
Do the little things that wedo, the reusable bags, the compost,
the biking instead of driving,do they matter?
And the truth is yes.
And also no.
(01:06):
Or rather, not on their own,because the real weight that still
falls on the wealthiestnations, the biggest corporations,
and the fossil fuel giantsthat have been steering the ship
straight into the storm.
But here's the thing.
Just because we didn't cause afire, I'm so done.
(01:29):
Oh, my gosh with myself.
It doesn't mean that we can'thold the hose right.
We have agency.
The choices that we make,messy, imperfect human choices, they
can ripple outward into ourecosystems, our communities, even
into the futures that we maynever live to see.
(01:52):
If we're going to be the lastof our species, why not be the best?
Am I right?
Well, we won't be the last, probably.
But, like, what if Today'sepisode is about those choices and
about how to make them withoutshame, without perfection, and without
(02:13):
forgetting who.
Who should be held accountable.
But before we dive in, I wantto give a huge shout out to the folks
who make this show possible.
My patrons over@patreon.comthe wildlife.
You keep the lights on, themic running and the questions flowing
for as little as a dollar per month.
(02:33):
So thank you.
Truly a very, very special,heartfelt thank you to Christy G,
Alicia Lawrence, MelissaKeneally, Steph Southard, Meg Midland,
Dave, Kathy Cooksey, KateLampe, Carissa Robinson, Carrie,
Sarah, and Mitchell and Karen Bergman.
You are the best.
(02:54):
The kind of ripple effect.
My guest today is Alexa Pavan.
Go green with Alexa.
And she's someone who hasbuilt a whole platform around approachable
sustainability.
We're talking coral, compost,climate, grief, hope, the works.
So let's get into it.
(03:30):
So the.
The go green with Alexa.
Where.
Where did that come from?
What was the heart behind it?
So, to be honest, I had anemail list at the time, and when
I was trying to pivot from my.
I had Like a copywriter esqueaccount that I had, I had pivoted
to copywriting in 2021, so Ihad kind of dedicated that account
(03:53):
to that journey.
Wasn't really that active or anything.
But then I really realizedthat that wasn't my path or what
I wanted to share with the world.
So I had an email list at thetime and I was like, hey, what do
you guys think about mepivoting to sustainability?
And kind of just brought up afew handles.
And I think the go green withLexa 1 had the most interest.
(04:15):
But I also, it was my favoriteone as well.
Just because I think I like alliterations.
And I mean my name is not partof the alliteration, but I just feel
like it's inviting people todo something and it's like clear
that it has something to dowith sustainability or eco friendly
living.
(04:36):
And I get it's kind ofconfusing because I also talk about
ocean conservation.
So it's one of those thingswhere it's like I like to just say
I have, I contain multitudes.
I have so many interests thatI could not possibly combine them
into one handle.
So go green with Alexa it is.
I feel that for sure.
I love that, like the kind ofthe crowdsourcing nature of it, you
(04:59):
know, and you're so right, it does.
There is like an action to it,you know, it's inviting, it is clear.
It's like, this is what we'redoing, this is our mission as a community.
So what was the reason for the pivot?
Like, what drew you to sustainability?
I've always been pulledtowards sustainability.
It's always been a part of me.
And anyone who knows meoutside in the real world was not
(05:22):
surprised by this pivotbecause this was my inherent way
of being for my whole life.
I was lucky enough to grow upin a household of my raised by parents
who really cared about the environment.
Her parents are immigrantsfrom Brazil and she sees that as
a huge part of her views on sustainability.
Now, immigrants areresourceful, they're scrappy, they
(05:46):
know how to work with whatthey have and all, all the same thing.
But essentially they careabout the resources so much.
I think immigrants in generalhave this more, I don't know, like
a diff, just a different perspective.
Obviously it's more justseeing things as like, obviously
in the US too, everything'svery abundant.
Like we have just like a lotof things, a lot of resources.
(06:07):
And I think that when you comehere, you don't want to just squander
that.
You want to Utilize it to itsfullest potential.
And I think immigrants do areally good job of that.
And while Alexa was growingup, they owned a scuba diving business.
They just sold it a few years ago.
And being raised in thatenvironment, it.
Really just taught me thatnature is the most important thing
(06:28):
we have.
And it's the biggest source ofconnection in my life.
I've met so many people inthat industry.
I worked at the dive shopalmost my whole life.
And it just shaped who I was.
And on another side ofeverything, them being immigrants
from Brazil, they had just,like, different interests, I think,
than most people I knew.
One of those interests growingtropical trees right at home in the
(06:52):
backyard.
Like, we don't have a bigbackyard or anything, but we live
in the coastal city in SouthFlorida, and we made do with, like,
a small portion of the yard,but having like, 20 different fruit
trees, like copaya, buticaba,jackfruit, soursop, dragon fruit,
literally any, like, mango.
(07:12):
I can't even think of all the ones.
Mango, coconut.
I'm gonna try to go around,but it's like all the different fruits.
And with that, we also composted.
These were all just, like,natural parts of my life that I'd
never even thought anydifferent of then.
And I just feel like that allof these things shaped me.
So it was always justinherently there.
(07:33):
I was always compost.
Even in college, I got avermicomposter so I could be able
to do in my apartment.
So it was just like everyonewho knew me knew that, like, o.
Like, if you're around Alexa,you make sure you recycle that bottle
or whatever.
Like, you know, like, it wasjust a part of who I was naturally.
So when people.
When I told people, like, Iwanted to do this, no one was surprised.
(07:55):
And I just feel like it wassomething that I was kind of scared
to do for a long time.
Just because I of that background.
I felt like, oh, I don'treally have the, I don't know, credentials
or.
Or journey maybe that otherpeople have.
Like, a lot of people onlinehave this journey of, like, I went
from a really unsustainablelifestyle to becoming sustainable
person.
I didn't really have that, soI felt like it would be harder to
(08:17):
connect with others.
But honestly, it was just sucha passion of mine that I just felt
like, if I'm not doing, if.
If I don't do this now, I willalways wonder what if?
In the world ofsustainability, you really never
know what you're going to get.
There is a lot of puritylitmus testing.
If you don't do this thing,then you're not doing it right.
(08:38):
If you, if you don't give upthis one thing, then you might as
well, you know, be drinkingoil for breakfast and smoking natural
gas.
I don't know.
I don't know.
But at the end of the day,here's the thing.
Perfection is the enemy of progress.
Perfection is an unrealistic standard.
And if we hold everybody tothat standard, that you have to be
(09:01):
perfect and if you don't do itperfectly, you are not welcome in
this community.
If we want to callsustainability a community or you,
you don't have the right tosay that you live a sustainable lifestyle
or to speak on any of thesethings, then, then you are not helping
(09:21):
the cause.
Alexa describes her approachas being fun and imperfect.
Human.
Yeah, I think the mostimportant thing is tackling the habits
and the actions that you dothe most.
I try not to be nitpicky.
You know, like you mentioned,we live in an imperfect world and
(09:43):
you know, we're surrounded byplastic for instance, and we use
fossil fuels to power our carsfor the most part.
And I just feel like, youknow, just going from a place of
like, oh, that's just so heavy.
That's just so much, we'rekind of, you know, there's, we don't
have many choices.
I like to just back it up andkind of think about what choices
(10:04):
do we have in our control.
And a lot of that has to dowith like food and like what we are
surrounded by.
Like I would say like ourclothes, our food, our homes.
You know, like I would sayfocusing on the things you can, can
control.
I1, one thing I like to startwith is even though it's kind of
maybe outdated now, but likedrinking water out of water bottles,
(10:27):
let's say if that's a habitthat you're still doing like that
like water is the most, is theresource that we need the most of.
Right?
So you're going to be drinkinga lot of water throughout the day.
Why not change the waterbottle to a fil.
You could just be refillingyour reusable water bottle.
It's like those habits thatlike that you do the most, I think
are the most important tofocus on.
(10:48):
And you know, if you cantackle those other bigger issues,
kind of like maybe downsizingfrom a two car family to a one car
family or things like that,like within, if it's possible for
you, I would say do it.
But I think that the mostimportant thing is that imperfect
Sustainability as a conceptlooks different for everybody.
So one thing that didn't makeit into the.
(11:09):
The final cut of the episode,just for timing reasons, was we were
having this conversation aboutplastic water bottles.
And Alexa, as somebody whoworks from home and has her reusable
water bottle, you know, wasnot really.
Didn't.
Didn't have, like, a metricof, like, how.
(11:29):
How.
How many plastic.
Like, is this still a thingthat we're all doing using plastic
water bottles?
Or is this something that wehave kind of moved past?
And myself as a classroomteacher, I have kind of a different
lens.
I see, you know, 120 studentsa day who are, you know, a little
subset, a little microcosm, alittle sample size of, like, you
(11:51):
know, society in a way, right?
And oh, my gosh, I guess alittle quick story time.
Okay.
We were doing a thing at theend of the year last year, talking
about.
Students were investigatingdifferent environmental issues and
talking about their impactsand solutions.
And one of those was plastic bottles.
(12:12):
And my goodness, the thingsthat we learned throughout that process.
High school students, at leastmine, use many plastic water bottles
per day.
Very few of those getrecycled, which, I mean, that's a
whole other topic.
We could talk about recycling.
That is not the savior thatpeople believe it to be.
(12:36):
But I think my favorite story was.
And this.
This actually came fromseveral different students was they
have, like, a hydro flask.
They have a reusable waterbottle kind of thing.
And.
And I had.
I had pointed them out.
I was like, yeah, see, like,you have a reusable water bottle.
Like, that's great.
And they're like, oh, oh, no, Boker.
(12:57):
I feel this.
I fill this with plastic waterbottle water from my plastic bottle.
And I'm thinking to myself,but it's a reusable bottle.
You have a fill station rightthere in the hallway.
And they're like, oh, no, no,no, no.
I don't.
I don't like how that tastes.
I like how.
(13:18):
I like how the plastic waterbottle water tastes.
I'm going, what?
But.
So wait, what?
Just explain, right?
And I'm just like, oh, my gosh.
I'm just flabbergasted.
And they're like, I don't wantto carry multiple plastic water bottles
around at school.
And so in the mornings, Itake, like, three or four water bottles
(13:39):
and I fill my reusable bottleso I can bring it to school.
Oh, my God.
Just like, oh, what?
Like what people.
Oh, geez.
But I do feel like maybe thisis a good moment.
And.
And we talk about this, Alexaand I a little bit more throughout
(14:02):
this episode, but just a goodmoment to chime in and be like, look,
there is a role, an elementof, of privilege and affordability
and access and things likethat in the sustainability conversation.
And I, and I don't want todiminish that at all.
There are certain things thatpeople like, certain people are able
to do more, certain people areable to do less.
(14:23):
This is about doing what youare able and willing to do, not about
holding some high standard andthen, and then shaming you if you
are unable to meet it.
Look, you are not the one whostructured society and, and made
it so that your local grocerystore wraps all of the produce in
(14:43):
plastic.
You are not the one.
Now, if you are able to takeaction, you know, to try and encourage
them to not do those things,you know what?
Awesome, wonderful.
But again, this is not apurity contest.
It is not about perfection.
It is about taking actionablesteps in the way that makes the most
sense for you in your life.
(15:04):
It's kind of like a tailormade situation to you.
And what those habits arelike, somebody might, I work from
home, so I, you know, I eatall my meals at home.
But like, let's say you workout and work in office and, you know,
have lunch out all the time,and you're constantly getting takeout.
That's one area of opportunityfor you because there's so much waste
(15:25):
that comes with takeout.
So it's just really, it's anindividualized look into how you're
moving through the world andhow you could change those habits
to become just a little bitmore sustainable.
And I think that it's alsolike empowerment as well, because
you're kind of like, I'mtaking control of the situation,
rather letting it control me.
Because I see that a lot in,you know, people who are trying to
(15:49):
get into sustainability.
They're like, well,everything's out of my control.
And I just think that's likegetting a lot of your agency and
autonomy away.
So this is a way to kind ofbring that back and be like, okay,
there are so many things outof my control, but there's so many
other things that I have a choice.
So it's just, it's, it's atightrope walk.
You know, you're constantly,you know, I, I evaluate things and
(16:11):
choices I make constantly.
And having that intentionalityis the most important aspect of all
this.
It's like, if I can, if I canmake a better change, I will.
And if it's maybe Too difficult.
I don't beat myself up over it.
I appreciate you saying thatbecause I see it a lot where people
will say, you know, like,well, it's not us, it's the corporations.
(16:36):
And, like, there's an elementto that, like.
Yeah, yes, okay, yes, 100%.
I totally understand.
But also remember,corporations are made up of people.
Yes.
Number one.
Number two, that does not meanthat you don't make an effort yourself.
And.
And that does not mean thatyou as an individual or you as an
(16:57):
individual and your ability toform and be a part of a community
do not also have agency.
And.
And so, yeah, you know, like,I'm looking at my desk right now,
and I'm like, oh, my God,everything's made of plastic and
rare earth metals, you know,But I've had, you know, I've forgone
upgrades on my phone forhowever many years.
(17:19):
So I've had the same phone,and it's busted all over the place,
but it works, so I keep it.
And I've got my reusable waterbottle and.
But things, you know, they'renot perfect and they haven't solved
everything, but at least I'mnot contributing.
Exactly.
And I love what you saidabout, as an individual, you're also,
you know, forming part of alarger community.
(17:41):
Because that's something I sayall the time.
Although I do have, like, anindividualistic approach to it.
It's just because I want theperson to be able to.
I think that's the only way wemake change.
We make change firstindividually, you know, as a choice
that we make autonomously, andthen those choices ripple.
Right.
And so what I always say isthat we're never just one person.
You are connected to at leastone other person, whether that's
(18:01):
your spouse or a best friendor a sibling or a parent or like
just a friend or a coworker.
You're connected to somebody.
And we all have influence overeach other, whether we recognize
that or not.
And I think that the.
That's the number one way Ichoose to go about it, is to model
the behavior rather than kindof preach the behavior.
Because, like, you know,obviously online it's a little different.
(18:22):
I'm, you know, making contentfor a purpose.
But when it.
When it comes to my personallife, I don't really bring it up
like sustainability principlesor anything, unless somebody brings
it up to me first, mostlybecause I think it brings up a wall
between me and the otherperson where it's like, I'm an expert
or whatever, and they're notso what?
Rather, excuse me, rather thandoing that, I try to just focus on
(18:47):
exemplifying that behavior.
I'm modeling that behavior.
I'm do.
I'm, you know, just bringingmy reusable water bottle.
I'm not opting for plastic.
And they notice.
People notice and people askquestions and even strangers.
Like, I go to the grocerystore and I bring all my reusable
bags and whatever.
And even somebody that theother day asked me, they're like,
what's the difference betweenthose carrots and those carrots?
And one, one set of carrotswere like loose and the other set
(19:09):
of carrots were like bagged uplike two pound bags of carrots.
And I went for the loose ones.
And you know, it was just somestranger lady who asked me and I
said, oh, well, those are inplastic and I prefer non plastic
if I can.
And she was just like.
And then she looked at hercart and her cart was full of those
like little thin plasticsbecause we still have tons of plastic
in Florida.
(19:29):
And it's like thin plasticbags full of produce, like 20 of
them.
And, and she looked at her carand she's like, I should really try
to not use as much plastic.
And I was like, I think if youcan, that's great.
And you know, that's all I said.
I wasn't going to be like, youknow, start, start preaching to her
as to why she should do that.
But she took notice andthat's, that's the only thing I could
hope for.
(19:50):
It's like a pattern disruptionthing, like interrupting the autopilot
of consumerism.
See, we're all just kind oflike rushing to the next thing.
We're not thinking about ourhabits and our choices as much.
But then I think that's thebest part of imperfect sustainability,
is it kind of causes us toslow down and, you know, appreciate
these little moments andchoices and thinking of creative
(20:13):
ways of how to, you know,sidestep plastic and all these other
issues.
So your, your approach, that,that kind of balancing act between,
like making it, you know,here's how you can do it and here's
a livable, sustainable way, nopun intended, of doing this sustainability
stuff without watering downthe urgency of sustainability.
(20:39):
How do you do that?
Because that is tricky.
It's a tricky fine line towalk and you seem to do it really
well.
Thank you.
Honestly, I don't know if I doit really well.
I think that I really, I thinkthere's a lot already a lot of doom
and gloom online about theclimate Change and, I don't know,
(21:00):
maybe a little bit also interms of sustainability being unachievable,
that I kind of try to focus onthe parts that we can control.
Like, I keep coming back tothat because that's really what it's
about to me.
And, you know, I live in astate that's constantly.
I'm in Florida, so I'mconstantly bombarded by hurricanes
and rising tides, and we havea lot of issues down here.
(21:24):
So to me, it's like, I seeclimate change.
I've seen over the past 20, 30years that I've been alive, I've
seen it change so much thatI'm like, it's.
To me, it's inevitable.
For me to keep pointing it outwould be a little silly at this point.
Like, it's.
It's happening, it hashappened, it is happening, it will
continue to happen.
So I don't know if I.
(21:44):
The urgency is more like, notonly does this impact our environmental
health, it also impacts human health.
And I think that's where Ikind of bring the urgency in.
Because although, like, thereis a.
An immediate threat to theenvironment, I think there's an even
more urgent threat to our own bodies.
And we can see that a lot nowrecently with the plastics studies,
(22:05):
all the microplastic andnanoplastics in our bodies and how,
like, they've been found inpretty much every organ in the body,
every organism on the planet.
And I think that if youconsider these aspects, like, you
know, this is just thebeginning of what we know to be the
plastic crisis, you know, andso it's going to get worse.
And I just think that I, assomebody who really cares about health,
(22:25):
individual health, like, Ican't fight climate change if I'm
not healthy myself.
I value that, and it'ssomething that I'm consciously working
against.
So to me, I think that's wherethe urgency comes in.
It's like making theconnection that environmental health
is human health.
I think, yeah, the more we canfind those types of connections because,
(22:47):
yeah, sometimes just theenvironmental part is just too abstract
for people, or people thinkthat, well, it's just going to take
care of itself anyway or,well, that won't affect me because
I've got air conditioning or,you know, whatever it might be.
Oh, we'll have, you know, morebeaches and not so bad, you know,
that kind of thing.
Making those connections,like, y', all, it's not just about,
(23:09):
like, temperature.
It's exactly human health.
It's food availability, it'smigration, it's any.
It's your retirement funds.
It's so many different thingsbeyond that.
Yes, and exactly.
There's so many topics withinsustainability and the ones that
I'm passionate about, evenwhat you said about retirement, like
the fact that our, you know,our retirement accounts are funding
(23:32):
fossil fuels, for instance, wedon't know, you know, like, if we're
not aware of these things,like, it's kind of just happening
in the background.
And yeah, I just think thatthere is that urgency already.
So I kind of just try totemper that with the actionable and
focus on bringing that agency back.
Because I think for so long,sustainability and the environmental
(23:56):
movement has been abouteverything being done onto us.
And I feel like that's justvery disempowering.
So if you have listened to theshow for a while or you follow any
of my social media, you knowthat, like, one of my favorite things
to talk about is theinterconnectedness of everything.
Nothing happens on this planetin isolation down from the molecular
(24:17):
level to the global scale.
It's a planetary living system.
Right.
So one of the things wementioned earlier in the conversation
is that Alexa has been divingfor essentially her entire life,
not quite since a baby.
That would be problematic, butfor a very, very long time.
And her parents own a scubadiving business and all these things.
(24:39):
Now, Alexa is not just asustainability advocate.
She is also an ocean advocateand a reef advocate.
She does lots of things.
She is a person of many hats.
Right.
And sustainability in generalis not just about reducing waste
or reducing consumption.
It is also about understandinghow your actions in those areas are
(25:02):
connected to these larger systems.
And so as much as I want tosay, oh, we're about to pivot the
conversation to talk aboutdiving and witnessing reefs and that
sort of thing, it's not reallya pivot.
I mean, after all, they aredeeply interconnected.
And Alex is going to paint areally beautiful picture for us in
(25:24):
a moment too, about how thingslike diving and reefs and composting
and sustainability are alljust one.
Are all just pieces of abigger, very overwhelming painting.
Say, painting.
I think I'm in puzzle.
I'm all over the place today.
(25:45):
Yeah, I've been scuba divingfor over 20 years.
You know, it is a unique situation.
I got certified when I was 10years old, which is the, like, the
minimum age for scuba diving.
But it's also because I grewup in that industry.
My parents had that business.
So I was just immersed and itwould be like, I have two younger
sisters.
We all got certified at 10years old.
I'm a padi dive master as well.
(26:06):
So I'm professional levelscuba diver.
And I would say that just overthe years, I've seen the coral reefs
change a lot in South Florida, specifically.
That's where I do a lot of my diving.
So I've just seen not just thereefs, but, like, the life in general
has just changed.
When I was younger and, youknow, part of this can be I was young
(26:28):
and enjoying myself so much,but the life was so much more vibrant
than I see it nowadays.
But, I mean, I have so manyother people in my life to corroborate
that information.
Like, it's not just mefeeling, you know, that nostalgic,
you know, memory of thebeautiful reefs.
It's.
It really has changed over thepast 20 years, and it's become a
(26:50):
little bit more desolate.
And I'm sure, you know, peoplehave heard about the bleaching and
the negative impacts ofclimate change with the rising temperatures
that we have in South Floridathat are, you know, kind of, I don't
want to say killing the reefs,because bleaching is not killing
the coral, but it's negativelyimpacting the reefs.
All right, quick sandbar.
(27:11):
Like.
Like a, like a sidebar,anyway, or picture this.
You're a coral.
You're not just some boringundersea rock.
Oh, no.
You are a living, breathing,glow in the dark party host.
And you have a roommate.
Her name, Zozo Lanthole.
She's a tiny algae, amicroalgal miracle.
And she photosynthesizes likea champ, turning sunlight into food.
(27:33):
She pays rent and sugar,something that you need desperately.
You've got a sweet tooth.
And you also need that inorder to conduct cellular respiration
in your mitochondria.
And without that, you would die.
You give her a cozy home.
She gives you snacks and color.
It's beautiful.
It's symbiotic.
It's peak friendship goals.
But then you're a littlestressed out.
(27:54):
The ocean starts to heat up, like.
Like way up.
It's acidifying, and you just.
You just can't.
You just can't keep it together.
So your little algal roommatestarts acting weird.
So weird, in fact, that yourimmune system's like, no, you know
what?
Get her.
Get her out.
Evict.
(28:15):
Evict.
And suddenly she's gone.
And without her, you're notjust alone.
You've lost the color in your life.
You're pale, like bone white,like a ghost of your former self.
Now, that's coral bleaching ina nutshell.
(28:35):
Like an Acorn is an oak tree.
Now, you're not dead yet, butyou're not thriving either.
You're depressed, you'restarving, exposed, vulnerable to
disease.
You're just laying on thecouch and honestly just trying to
hang on.
Coral bleaching is a desperateresponse to stress, mostly from warming
waters, thanks to climate change.
(28:56):
Thanks ExxonMobil.
Other offenders includepollution, overexposure to sunlight,
or even just a really bad low tide.
If conditions don't improvefast enough.
That's, that's when we getinto the area of like, you know,
death.
If your algal buddy doesn'tmove back in, you might die.
You're that codependent.
(29:16):
And that's heartbreakingbecause coral reefs support 25%.
I'm going to get really closeto the mic here.
Coral reefs, despite coveringlike 1% of the ocean, support 25%
of all marine life.
That's like being the landlordof an undersea apartment complex
and accidentally evictingeveryone, everyone, every.
(29:42):
Just.
Are you kidding me?
So anyway, coral bleachingisn't like, oh, let me just be white
for a little bit.
No, it's, it's like a really,really big red flag from the ocean
saying, hey, can we maybe coolit down?
It's getting hot.
But here's the hopeful part.
If we do cool it, if we reduceemissions, protect Reese, let nature
(30:04):
do her thing, some corals canbounce back.
That algae might just return.
The color, the life, theparty, it could all come back.
Science, policy, and maybe alittle bit of compassion can help
reefs go from ghost towns toget this ready, ready, ready, Glow
towns again.
(30:25):
I don't think people realizehow much all of life, not only just
in the ocean, but in the world.
All of us humans, every partof the food web, is dependent on
the ocean and coral reefs specifically.
And you can see a lot lessfish, a lot less big fish.
And that's not just fromclimate change and rising sea temperatures.
(30:46):
It's also from like invasivespecies like flying fish and poor
water quality and things like that.
But yeah, unfortunately I haveseen things change and that's why
I feel like it is part of myduty as somebody who has been doing
this for a long time to makethat known and just make those connections
(31:08):
too, about not.
It's not just oceanconservation or, you know, land based
conservation.
It's all the same and it's,they're impacting one another.
And whether you live on thecoast or in a landlocked state, you
are being impacted by the ocean.
And yeah, that's that's,there's, it's such a vast subject,
but it's so important to theclimate conversation.
(31:31):
I wish some people, I wishpeople understood a little bit more
about corals in general.
Like, that they're an animal,not a plant that, you know, although
they only cover 1% of all theocean floor, they house 25% of all
marine life.
So that's like insane to think about.
Like, this is a global, youknow, figure, not just in South Florida.
(31:55):
And when it comes to thethreats, I think, I just wish people
knew that everything was connected.
I think people think that ifcoral reefs die, it'll just be like
another extinct species, youknow, that we didn't really, didn't
really affect us.
But in the end, every speciesaffects us.
Like the extinction of anyspecies affects us.
(32:16):
I'm not saying we're going tosee the extinction of the species.
Like, you know, like, ofcourse, cor.
Like, of corals as a whole.
There's so many coralrestoration efforts being, being
done all over the world.
I hope that doesn't, itdoesn't get to that point by my,
my point of all this is justto say that if it does, that would
be detrimental to the human race.
(32:36):
And I, I do believe like therest of the natural world will make
do and find a way to adapt,but I think humans are going to be
tremendously impacted and Ijust wish we could care a little
bit more about ocean conservation.
And you know, like I mentionedbefore, not just if you're in the
coast, on the coast, but likeinland it matters just as much.
(32:57):
We get 50% of all of theoxygen available to us from the ocean.
You know, we always attributethat to trees, but like, trees only
do half of the work, you know,and we need all.
Like, I think that's justanother way to say we need all of
these ecosystems working together.
We can't just have one or the other.
And that to me that's justlike, mind blowing.
(33:19):
And Also it absorbs 30% of allthe carbon in the atmosphere.
So, like, that's huge.
Like, that's why we haven'treally seen these drastic, drastic
effects like, that we thoughtwe might have seen already just because
the ocean has absorbed so muchthat heat, which is insane if you
think about.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I even think about, like,inland because I'm in, I'm in Minnesota
(33:41):
and like, I do a whole lessonsequence and stuff about like, farm,
farm to phytoplankton, likehow, you know, things that we do
here cause impacts in like,the Mississippi, and then how that
flows out and the dead zonesand like, you know, you're.
You're connected to the ocean.
Even if you're, you know, 1500miles away, you are connected.
(34:01):
Some of those other impactsabout, you know, the oxygen one.
I'm always so fascinated bythat, and I just, I wish more people
knew that because it's just so cool.
That's just amazing, you know,and reefs as.
What's the word I'm lookingfor, like, diffusers of waves and
things, you know, that's,that's also an important function.
(34:22):
And like, you know, peoplejust kind of think, oh, it's just
some pretty animals that might disappear.
It's like, well, a little morethan that.
They create these barriersthat are protecting hundreds of millions
of dollars of assets on the coast.
Like, that's just like, youknow, I.
Economically, they're soimportant to us.
(34:43):
Like, we in South Floridaspecifically, we could not live here
if we did not have corals.
And that's the part that Iwish people understood is that like,
we, we need that.
But like you said before, it's.
I think the part of the issueis that some people or most people
will never experience whatit's like to dive in a coral reef
(35:03):
or, or even like they, it'sjust so.
It's such a different world tothem that they don't even think about
it.
It's just sight on unseen thatthey're just like, oh, it's out of
sight, out of mind.
I don't, I don't know what'sgoing on over there.
It must be nothing.
So, yeah, it's.
There's so much going on underthe surface.
So that connection, becauseyou, you work with coral now, you've.
(35:26):
And then, and then, you know,the, the growing foods and, and the
composting.
And I couldn't help but belike, wow, that's like, that's like
the circle right there.
What, what for you.
Like, I.
Just curious, like, if you, ifyou had to like, tell somebody how
those things were connected,what would you say?
(35:46):
Oh, okay.
So it's such a big topic, butI love, I love this topic.
So whatever we do on landaffects the ocean.
Because as we kind of like youalluded to, like, the Mississippi's
connected, goes back to the ocean.
Every waterway comes back tothe ocean.
Right?
So we.
It's connected and it's allone big ocean.
We like to call it oceans, butit's all one big ocean.
(36:08):
And, you know, the world'scovered by 70% of it, so.
That is one thing to thinkabout, like the diffusion alone of
all, like anything.
That's why plastic is such aproblem because it's just being taken
all over the world via theocean and you know, our trade winds
and things like that.
But so composting forinstance, like I, I guess I should
(36:31):
talk about the absence of it.
When you don't compost, youare what you are sending right now,
like what a lot of states aredoing in Florida included because
we don't have municipalcomposting in Florida.
But you are putting yourorganic matter into a trash bag.
The trash bag is nowsuffocating that organic matter.
It's only getting some oxygen,but, or oxygen is required for decomposition,
(36:54):
right?
So that not only is it goingto the landfill in that plastic bag,
it's going to be layered ontop of other trash.
The lack of oxygen now causesonly a partial decay of that organic
material.
That organic material is nowlike partially decayed and mixing
with the other trash in thebag and in the landfill, which is
like leading out, leaching outA leachate is what it's called.
(37:16):
And it's basically like atoxic sludge that emits methane,
which methane is a very potentgreenhouse gas that leads to the
warming of the atmosphere.
Right.
And so landfills emit a lot ofmethane causing the warming of the
atmosphere.
The warming on the atmosphereis causing the warming of the oceans
and is contributing to thedeath of corals.
(37:38):
Right.
So I guess like it's maybeeasier to explain it in that way
that without this system,without the compost property waste
management systems, this is a,an issue that's affecting not just
the land but the ocean as well.
And another part of that is agriculture.
A huge problem that we have inSouth Florida, in Florida in general,
(37:59):
is that agricultural practices are.
They use a lot of syntheticfertilizer and synthetic fertilizer
is awful for the environment.
And basically it's when youput too much of it and especially
in a place like Florida whereit rains a lot there, it's there,
there's runoff from that fertilizer.
That, that fertilizer isbasically just an excess of nutrients.
(38:22):
Those nitrogen rich nutrientsend up in our waterways and then
end up in the ocean.
And I'm sure a lot of peoplehave heard of, and if you haven't,
I'd recommend looking up redtide and blue algae.
But it's basically causes thisimbalance in our oceans and our waterways
that leads to like an algal bloom.
So a lot of algae justspawning up and causing, you know,
(38:46):
basically A choke, choking outoxygen and all the nutrients that
these, the ecosystem andspecifically fish need to survive.
So you know, that was causedfrom agriculture, but it's also caused
from improper waste managementfrom the methane.
So the, all these systems areconnected, right, because we, we
(39:09):
need proper waste managementsystems to not, not raise this temperature
in our atmosphere.
So then we don't have risingsea temperatures.
And then also those algaeblooms are like made, made worse
by warming temperatures.
So it's kind of like, I thinkthat the ocean bears the brunt of
a lot of these issues.
(39:30):
And it's only because it'slike able to absorb so much that
we don't really notice it as much.
And it's like more the coastalcities that are experiencing it right
now.
But I think over time we'regoing to see more and more inland
cities be affected, but not,but not just from like land pollution,
land issues, but it'll be fromlike coastal or ocean based problems.
(39:53):
Yeah, I did this thing at theend of the year last year that I
was just thinking about wherewe had like all these models that
we'd done and we had made themprogressively more complicated throughout
the year.
But then kind of like as wewere nearing the end I was like,
well let's like just simplifythis, right?
We've got all these inputs andall these outputs and all these things
going on.
Let's just reduce this down tolike what, what is it at its base
(40:15):
and kind of just got it downto like life and death and circle
of life.
And I was like, I mean, yeah,you know, that's what all this is,
is about is this, this, thiscontinuation of this cycle of life
and death and then back tolife, this reciprocity, this, you
know, give and take ofeverything and, and that's what it's
(40:36):
all about.
And so wherever you can inyour life have awareness of your
actions are all kind of a partof this cycle, this, this larger
cycle of contributing to lifeor contributing to death.
Both are needed, both are necessary.
But what is your role in it?
And you know like somethinglike composting is, you are seeing
to renewal in that process ofdeath, if you want to say death,
(41:00):
you know, that process ofrenewal in it of you know, recycling
these nutrients for use togive more life and, and how that
is in itself reducing, youknow, impacts that could lead to
death distantly far away fromyou and stuff.
It's just, it's, it's, it'scool, it's a cool mirror in a way
(41:21):
to hold up, you know, Thesepractices of, like, composting in
your daily life and how thatcan connect, you know, to the oceans
themselves.
And you said it.
You did say it very well.
Like, how it's all.
How it's all connected on those.
Those, like, really big scales.
It also freaks me out a littlebit just thinking about, like, how
much organic stuff is justtrapped up in.
(41:42):
In garbage.
And I.
Sometimes I think about, like, water.
Then we have so much bottled water.
Yeah.
Like, how much ends up inlandfills with, like, the lid on
in the plastic bottles.
And this is fresh drinkingwater that is just now locked in
a landfill somewhere.
That's kind of scary.
Yeah.
That's so important to think about.
It's like.
And even, like, a banana, forinstance, like a banana peel.
(42:05):
It takes, like eight years orsomething for a banana peel to break
down in the landfill.
Whereas, like, in a compostsystem, maybe like in Florida, probably
like a couple weeks, like.
Yeah.
Which is crazy.
Yeah.
And it really is so easy to do.
You mentioned the.
The.
The vermiculture, Ben, incollege, I did the same thing.
Oh.
It was like a random point.
I was just like, you know what?
(42:26):
This sounds fun.
Let's do it.
And like, you know, peoplewere friends of mine.
They're like, that's gonna stink.
Like, what's wrong with you?
Why would you do that?
And stuff?
And I was like, I don't know.
I just wanna see.
I didn't have any issues with it.
It was super easy to maintain.
It's just throw in scraps hereand there and then use the compost
to, like, grow plants and stuff.
It was awesome.
I loved it.
Yeah.
(42:46):
You do that in my room.
What am.
Why am I not doing that?
That would be a great idea forthe kids because, like, I don't know,
I loved worms as a kid.
I still love worms.
But, like.
Yeah.
A lot of people would be,like, freaked out.
They're like, you're justgonna have a box of worms in the
house.
And I'm like, I mean, they're outside.
Yeah.
Like, I don't know.
I don't find them that gross.
I think that, like, thatthey're essential to life.
(43:07):
So I don't know.
I can't.
Like, they're writhing aroundon the carpet or something, you know,
like, they're.
They're sealed up, like.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
So a little heavier.
Not that sustainability ingeneral can't be really heavy, but.
Yeah.
When you take a step back andyou really start to, like, take it
(43:29):
all in and, like, all theseconnections and sometimes the Guilt
or the burnout or the news, the.
The pressures and stuff.
How.
How do you navigate.
How do you navigate all ofthat ego anxiety?
(43:54):
Yeah.
I will say that's like anormal part of being, like, a conscious,
aware person.
Right.
I think that, like, ignorancereally is bliss.
And I feel like, wow,sometimes, like, wouldn't it be nice
to just not care as much?
But I think at the end, it'salso a blessing because I just think
that empathy is important.
Right.
And I think that with all ofthis, I come back to the fact that
(44:19):
there are so many people doingamazing things out there to help
the environment and to bringcommunity together for the greater
good.
I think that there's so manyamazing organizations out there,
but not even just that.
I think what I do personallywhen I'm feeling really down is get
in community.
And one of my favorite placesto go is my community garden.
(44:41):
And whenever I'm there, like,the people are so friendly who work
there, and anybody who's justvisiting is so kind and willing to
spark up a conversation.
But, like, usually they haveevents at my garden, and I can, like,
plant fruit trees or just cometogether for, like, an art kind of
crafting situation.
And, like, every time I leavethose events, I'm, like, so full
(45:03):
and so happy and sooptimistic, and I just feel like,
wow, there's just so manyamazing people out there that truly
care.
It's not just me.
I'm not alone, you know,because I think that's so easy to
feel like, oh, God, I'm so alone.
I. I'm the only one who caresabout this or, you know, what is
my one contribution or, youknow, mean, like, foregoing a plastic
(45:25):
bag.
What is that actually doingfor the environment?
And I think that's really.
It's just a natural loop thatwe get in as, like, conscious people
and people who maybe overthink things.
I overthink things.
So I just feel like you.
It's natural to get into that space.
And I just think that thenumber one thing I would say is,
like, label that.
That it's natural and be like,okay, this is.
(45:46):
Other people feel like this as well.
And especially other people inthe environmental space or even just
people who care about nature,that love nature.
They're, like, you know,worried about it vanishing.
I think that's a normalfeeling for those people, for any
of us.
So I think that the number onething is connecting with community
and then connecting withorganizations, because, you know,
(46:06):
we can do a lot as anindividual, but we can do so much
more together.
Collectively.
And it really brings a lot of joy.
Even if you're not doinganything like that.
Environmentally focused.
Like, even just being in anorganization where it's like they're
doing something positive forthe surrounding community can be
so uplifting.
And I think that we reallyneed to really focus on those activities
(46:30):
at this time especially.
Yeah, yeah.
Is there something recentlythat you've done or maybe an interaction
on a post or something likethat that's like, really stood out
to you, that, like, broughtyou joy and was, like a good reminder
of, you know, why you do whatyou do?
I will say last Sunday, I waspart of a reef cleanup, and it was
(46:52):
like a tri county reef cleanup.
So we had five different diveboats in three different counties
go out at the same time.
And was over 100 divers allcleaning the same stretch of reef,
but, you know, different partsof it.
We have over 350 miles of reefin South Florida, but we were cleaning
about, I would say, like ahundred, like, throughout.
(47:13):
And that brought me immensejoy, carried me throughout the week.
And I just even just stoppedto think about, like, all the people
that came out for that event.
Like, diving is not a.
It's a.
It could be an expensive hobby.
So, like, to see people, like,choose to use this hobby and their
time and their energy andtheir money in this way to support
(47:37):
a conservation event like thatand to really just pull up trash,
like, that's all we're doingis like, we're diving, we're enjoying
ourselves.
Of course, we're seeingbeautiful things, but also we're
pulling up trash.
And I.
It just brought me suchimmense joy.
And I've been through.
I've been part of so manycleanups throughout my life below
the water, like, under thewater and above.
But like, this onespecifically, I was just so grateful
(48:00):
to be part of.
And I think that it comes backto that community piece.
Right?
Like, it wasn't.
It's.
It's fun doing it by yourself.
Like going on a personal beach cleanup.
I do that often, but, like,when I do with other people, I'm
like, oh, this is why I dowhat I do.
And I love it so much.
I wasn't even there.
And I feel like that's goingto carry me, like, through the.
Through the week like that.
(48:21):
Just to hear, you know, thatthere's other people out there and
that there's people out therewho are volunteering their time to
do that sort of thing.
So for people listening, whatwould be.
And I know this is tricky.
This is a tricky thing.
Especially because it's kindof different for everybody.
And I get that.
But if there was somethingthat you personally could ask everybody
(48:44):
listening to do just one smallstep that they could take after hearing
this episode, what would youwant that to be?
Okay, so you said it was goingto be a little complicated, so I'm,
I'm going to start with one.
But I have a caveat.
So the number one thing Iwould suggest that if you wanted
to make an impact as anindividual and in my opinion makes
(49:05):
the biggest impact overall, Iwould say it's composting.
I would say find a way todivert that organic material from
the landfill to the earth.
And there's so many ways to do that.
Like I mentioned before, wedon't have municipal services here
in Florida for composting.
I live in an apartment, so Ican't do it myself anymore.
(49:26):
I grew up doing that, but Ican't do that anymore.
So I use a service in my areaand it's like a valet service kind
of thing.
They give me a five gallonbucket, I fill it up with organics
they, you know, put outside mydoor on my pickup day, they swap
it out for a clean bucket andthe process continues.
They take it to like a largefacility, like a.
It's basically a lot of landand they just have these big piles
(49:47):
where they can process thatmaterial so you can search for like
a service in your area andit's really affordable.
And I'd say it's somethingthat like would make the most impact
as an individual.
There's also community gardensthat offer like composting for the
community.
You could find a drop off location.
Like sometimes there are freedrop off locations and free as in
(50:07):
subsidized.
So someone always pays forthese services.
Just keeping that in mind,waste management is very important
and should be paid for and itis paid for by somebody.
So, you know, communitygardens, doing it at home using a
vermicomposter.
There's so many different waysto go about it.
That's what I would suggest.
And then with that, I wouldlove to give you like three different
(50:30):
things that you could do.
But I would say I think themost important and impactful thing
besides composting would be tojust start becoming aware of your
most common and repetitivehabits and actions and just thinking
about how you can make thataction more sustainable.
(50:52):
And whether that's carpoolinginstead of just, you know, driving
separately or that's bringingor opting for a reusable water bottle
and filter situation ratherthan buying classic water bottles
or, you know, bringing.
Looking at the packaging whenyou're at the grocery store, if you
(51:12):
have the option for glassinstead of plastic or, you know,
loose produce rather thanpackaged produce.
And it's really just bringingit back to that awareness.
And then once you startbecoming aware, you can start making
those changes.
But it has to start with thatpause before you make an action.
(51:35):
Sometimes just noticing,really noticing that that is the
spark, that that is thebeginning of change.
Thank you, Alexa Pavan, forjoining me today on this episode
of the Wildlife.
Sustainability is somethingthat I don't spend enough time talking
(51:56):
about, just, you know,sustainable living, sustainable lifestyle,
that sort of thing.
And I just appreciate theopportunity to, to be able to do
so.
As we ended the interview, wealso had some conversation about,
like, bringing composting intothe classroom and that sort of thing.
So that's a conversation thatwe're going to have a little bit
more of.
We might be collaborating on acarousel post to share kind of what
(52:18):
we discuss and learn and allthat stuff as well with, with all
of you.
And so I'm, I'm excited for that.
I'm excited for the schoolyear to start.
I can't believe I'm sayingthat, but.
But I am.
And to maybe try, try some ofthat stuff out.
So, again, if you would liketo follow Alexa on social media,
check out her Instagram.
It's great.
Go green with Alexa.
(52:40):
She's got all sorts ofaccessible tips for how you can make
sustainability a reality.
I was trying to think of a punand I couldn't.
I couldn't.
It's just early and I haven'thad enough coffee.
Coffee is my pun juice.
Anyway, thanks for listening.
I'm Devin Boker, this is the Wildlife.
(53:01):
And if you would like tosupport this show, you know, I just
want to throw out there.
Okay, if you'd like to supportthe show as little as a dollar a
month, you can dothat@patreon.com the wildlife.
And it's, it's.
When I say dollar a month, theamount of things that I've put out,
right?
Videos, podcast episodes,things like that.
Look, I post way too much.
(53:22):
Sometimes I post like four orfive times a day.
It's ridiculous.
It's a sickness.
We're talking like nickels onthe nickels on the dime.
Is that the right term?
We're talking like nickels,like nickels per, per piece of content.
If I don't post, I couldalways give you your nickel back.
I need to stop.
I should be stopped.
Someone run me over.
(53:43):
Please don't.
Actually, that.
That would be painful anddeeply unfortunate for my children.
You could just.
I'm just saying.
All I'm trying to say is it's.
I. I put out a lot of stuff.
My Field Guide to Wonderseries, my toolkit on climate action,
my.
My series beyond the Count on.
On Wolf conservation, thepodcast, the other random videos
(54:05):
and things like that.
It would.
It would just be nice and helpful.
Editing software, things like that.
It.
It all adds up.
It gets quite expensive.
And so anything that can helphelp me to continue doing this is
obviously appreciated.
It's.
It helps me keep it get this sustainable.
And if you'd like to supportfor no dollars, that's totally fine,
(54:28):
too.
Fun fact.
You can join the Patreon forfree without spending any money.
It.
It's a.
It's a whole thing.
You just don't get as many ofthe cool perks as people who do join
for dollars.
I think the discord issomething that you can join.
I'm gonna be straight up.
I've been, like, trying to getthat discord going, like, hey, y',
all, let's talk about animals.
(54:49):
And just not a lot of peopledoing that yet.
So if you're like, I'd love tohop in there and talk about animals,
please.
Thank you.
I'd love that.
You could also just rate andreview the show wherever you're listening,
Listening Spotify, Apple,podcast, any of those things.
I'm rambling at this point.
I've been going for 3 minutesand 42 seconds, and the odds are
you are no longer listening.
(55:10):
You went, oh, the episode's done.
And you.
You ended, you exited, you didsomething else.
You're moving on to other things.
So if you are still here,let's just have a moment to pause
together in silence.
Thank you.
That was quite nice, actually.
Very short, but that's all Icould handle.
All right, well, stay curious.
(55:32):
Get outside, assuming you aresomewhere that's not having incredibly
horrible air quality likemyself and peace out, rainbow trots.
See you next time, Sam.
Hey, everybody, it's Devin.
And this is the wildlife.
The world is shifting, and notin a subtle blink and you miss it
kind of way.
It's loud, it's fast, it's sweaty.
Temperatures are climbing.
Storms are flexing harder.
Coral reefs are bleaching likelate 90s, early 2000s boy band hair.
(00:22):
And crops, well, they'recropping out, get it?
Like crap, crap and crap.
Crap.
Oh, callows.
Humor in response.
The word sustainability is everywhere.
On products, on storefronts,on press releases and political stages.
(00:43):
But with all that buzz, it'seasy to feel lost.
What actually matters?
Do the little things that wedo, the reusable bags, the compost,
the biking instead of driving,do they matter?
And the truth is yes.
And also no.
(01:06):
Or rather, not on their own,because the real weight that still
falls on the wealthiestnations, the biggest corporations,
and the fossil fuel giantsthat have been steering the ship
straight into the storm.
But here's the thing.
Just because we didn't cause afire, I'm so done.
(01:29):
Oh, my gosh with myself.
It doesn't mean that we can'thold the hose right.
We have agency.
The choices that we make,messy, imperfect human choices, they
can ripple outward into ourecosystems, our communities, even
into the futures that we maynever live to see.
(01:52):
If we're going to be the lastof our species, why not be the best?
Am I right?
Well, we won't be the last, probably.
But, like, what if Today'sepisode is about those choices and
about how to make them withoutshame, without perfection, and without
(02:13):
forgetting who.
Who should be held accountable.
But before we dive in, I wantto give a huge shout out to the folks
who make this show possible.
My patrons over@patreon.comthe wildlife.
You keep the lights on, themic running and the questions flowing
for as little as a dollar per month.
(02:33):
So thank you.
Truly a very, very special,heartfelt thank you to Christy G,
Alicia Lawrence, MelissaKeneally, Steph Southard, Meg Midland,
Dave, Kathy Cooksey, KateLampe, Carissa Robinson, Carrie,
Sarah, and Mitchell and Karen Bergman.
You are the best.
(02:54):
The kind of ripple effect.
My guest today is Alexa Pavan.
Go green with Alexa.
And she's someone who hasbuilt a whole platform around approachable
sustainability.
We're talking coral, compost,climate, grief, hope, the works.
So let's get into it.
(03:30):
So the.
The go green with Alexa.
Where.
Where did that come from?
What was the heart behind it?
So, to be honest, I had anemail list at the time, and when
I was trying to pivot from my.
I had Like a copywriter esqueaccount that I had, I had pivoted
to copywriting in 2021, so Ihad kind of dedicated that account
(03:53):
to that journey.
Wasn't really that active or anything.
But then I really realizedthat that wasn't my path or what
I wanted to share with the world.
So I had an email list at thetime and I was like, hey, what do
you guys think about mepivoting to sustainability?
And kind of just brought up afew handles.
And I think the go green withLexa 1 had the most interest.
(04:15):
But I also, it was my favoriteone as well.
Just because I think I like alliterations.
And I mean my name is not partof the alliteration, but I just feel
like it's inviting people todo something and it's like clear
that it has something to dowith sustainability or eco friendly
living.
(04:36):
And I get it's kind ofconfusing because I also talk about
ocean conservation.
So it's one of those thingswhere it's like I like to just say
I have, I contain multitudes.
I have so many interests thatI could not possibly combine them
into one handle.
So go green with Alexa it is.
I feel that for sure.
I love that, like the kind ofthe crowdsourcing nature of it, you
(04:59):
know, and you're so right, it does.
There is like an action to it,you know, it's inviting, it is clear.
It's like, this is what we'redoing, this is our mission as a community.
So what was the reason for the pivot?
Like, what drew you to sustainability?
I've always been pulledtowards sustainability.
It's always been a part of me.
And anyone who knows meoutside in the real world was not
(05:22):
surprised by this pivotbecause this was my inherent way
of being for my whole life.
I was lucky enough to grow upin a household of my raised by parents
who really cared about the environment.
Her parents are immigrantsfrom Brazil and she sees that as
a huge part of her views on sustainability.
Now, immigrants areresourceful, they're scrappy, they
(05:46):
know how to work with whatthey have and all, all the same thing.
But essentially they careabout the resources so much.
I think immigrants in generalhave this more, I don't know, like
a diff, just a different perspective.
Obviously it's more justseeing things as like, obviously
in the US too, everything'svery abundant.
Like we have just like a lotof things, a lot of resources.
(06:07):
And I think that when you comehere, you don't want to just squander
that.
You want to Utilize it to itsfullest potential.
And I think immigrants do areally good job of that.
And while Alexa was growingup, they owned a scuba diving business.
They just sold it a few years ago.
And being raised in thatenvironment, it.
Really just taught me thatnature is the most important thing
(06:28):
we have.
And it's the biggest source ofconnection in my life.
I've met so many people inthat industry.
I worked at the dive shopalmost my whole life.
And it just shaped who I was.
And on another side ofeverything, them being immigrants
from Brazil, they had just,like, different interests, I think,
than most people I knew.
One of those interests growingtropical trees right at home in the
(06:52):
backyard.
Like, we don't have a bigbackyard or anything, but we live
in the coastal city in SouthFlorida, and we made do with, like,
a small portion of the yard,but having like, 20 different fruit
trees, like copaya, buticaba,jackfruit, soursop, dragon fruit,
literally any, like, mango.
(07:12):
I can't even think of all the ones.
Mango, coconut.
I'm gonna try to go around,but it's like all the different fruits.
And with that, we also composted.
These were all just, like,natural parts of my life that I'd
never even thought anydifferent of then.
And I just feel like that allof these things shaped me.
So it was always justinherently there.
(07:33):
I was always compost.
Even in college, I got avermicomposter so I could be able
to do in my apartment.
So it was just like everyonewho knew me knew that, like, o.
Like, if you're around Alexa,you make sure you recycle that bottle
or whatever.
Like, you know, like, it wasjust a part of who I was naturally.
So when people.
When I told people, like, Iwanted to do this, no one was surprised.
(07:55):
And I just feel like it wassomething that I was kind of scared
to do for a long time.
Just because I of that background.
I felt like, oh, I don'treally have the, I don't know, credentials
or.
Or journey maybe that otherpeople have.
Like, a lot of people onlinehave this journey of, like, I went
from a really unsustainablelifestyle to becoming sustainable
person.
I didn't really have that, soI felt like it would be harder to
(08:17):
connect with others.
But honestly, it was just sucha passion of mine that I just felt
like, if I'm not doing, if.
If I don't do this now, I willalways wonder what if?
In the world ofsustainability, you really never
know what you're going to get.
There is a lot of puritylitmus testing.
If you don't do this thing,then you're not doing it right.
(08:38):
If you, if you don't give upthis one thing, then you might as
well, you know, be drinkingoil for breakfast and smoking natural
gas.
I don't know.
I don't know.
But at the end of the day,here's the thing.
Perfection is the enemy of progress.
Perfection is an unrealistic standard.
And if we hold everybody tothat standard, that you have to be
(09:01):
perfect and if you don't do itperfectly, you are not welcome in
this community.
If we want to callsustainability a community or you,
you don't have the right tosay that you live a sustainable lifestyle
or to speak on any of thesethings, then, then you are not helping
(09:21):
the cause.
Alexa describes her approachas being fun and imperfect.
Human.
Yeah, I think the mostimportant thing is tackling the habits
and the actions that you dothe most.
I try not to be nitpicky.
You know, like you mentioned,we live in an imperfect world and
(09:43):
you know, we're surrounded byplastic for instance, and we use
fossil fuels to power our carsfor the most part.
And I just feel like, youknow, just going from a place of
like, oh, that's just so heavy.
That's just so much, we'rekind of, you know, there's, we don't
have many choices.
I like to just back it up andkind of think about what choices
(10:04):
do we have in our control.
And a lot of that has to dowith like food and like what we are
surrounded by.
Like I would say like ourclothes, our food, our homes.
You know, like I would sayfocusing on the things you can, can
control.
I1, one thing I like to startwith is even though it's kind of
maybe outdated now, but likedrinking water out of water bottles,
(10:27):
let's say if that's a habitthat you're still doing like that
like water is the most, is theresource that we need the most of.
Right?
So you're going to be drinkinga lot of water throughout the day.
Why not change the waterbottle to a fil.
You could just be refillingyour reusable water bottle.
It's like those habits thatlike that you do the most, I think
are the most important tofocus on.
(10:48):
And you know, if you cantackle those other bigger issues,
kind of like maybe downsizingfrom a two car family to a one car
family or things like that,like within, if it's possible for
you, I would say do it.
But I think that the mostimportant thing is that imperfect
Sustainability as a conceptlooks different for everybody.
So one thing that didn't makeit into the.
(11:09):
The final cut of the episode,just for timing reasons, was we were
having this conversation aboutplastic water bottles.
And Alexa, as somebody whoworks from home and has her reusable
water bottle, you know, wasnot really.
Didn't.
Didn't have, like, a metricof, like, how.
(11:29):
How.
How many plastic.
Like, is this still a thingthat we're all doing using plastic
water bottles?
Or is this something that wehave kind of moved past?
And myself as a classroomteacher, I have kind of a different
lens.
I see, you know, 120 studentsa day who are, you know, a little
subset, a little microcosm, alittle sample size of, like, you
(11:51):
know, society in a way, right?
And oh, my gosh, I guess alittle quick story time.
Okay.
We were doing a thing at theend of the year last year, talking
about.
Students were investigatingdifferent environmental issues and
talking about their impactsand solutions.
And one of those was plastic bottles.
(12:12):
And my goodness, the thingsthat we learned throughout that process.
High school students, at leastmine, use many plastic water bottles
per day.
Very few of those getrecycled, which, I mean, that's a
whole other topic.
We could talk about recycling.
That is not the savior thatpeople believe it to be.
(12:36):
But I think my favorite story was.
And this.
This actually came fromseveral different students was they
have, like, a hydro flask.
They have a reusable waterbottle kind of thing.
And.
And I had.
I had pointed them out.
I was like, yeah, see, like,you have a reusable water bottle.
Like, that's great.
And they're like, oh, oh, no, Boker.
(12:57):
I feel this.
I fill this with plastic waterbottle water from my plastic bottle.
And I'm thinking to myself,but it's a reusable bottle.
You have a fill station rightthere in the hallway.
And they're like, oh, no, no,no, no.
I don't.
I don't like how that tastes.
I like how.
(13:18):
I like how the plastic waterbottle water tastes.
I'm going, what?
But.
So wait, what?
Just explain, right?
And I'm just like, oh, my gosh.
I'm just flabbergasted.
And they're like, I don't wantto carry multiple plastic water bottles
around at school.
And so in the mornings, Itake, like, three or four water bottles
(13:39):
and I fill my reusable bottleso I can bring it to school.
Oh, my God.
Just like, oh, what?
Like what people.
Oh, geez.
But I do feel like maybe thisis a good moment.
And.
And we talk about this, Alexaand I a little bit more throughout
(14:02):
this episode, but just a goodmoment to chime in and be like, look,
there is a role, an elementof, of privilege and affordability
and access and things likethat in the sustainability conversation.
And I, and I don't want todiminish that at all.
There are certain things thatpeople like, certain people are able
to do more, certain people areable to do less.
(14:23):
This is about doing what youare able and willing to do, not about
holding some high standard andthen, and then shaming you if you
are unable to meet it.
Look, you are not the one whostructured society and, and made
it so that your local grocerystore wraps all of the produce in
(14:43):
plastic.
You are not the one.
Now, if you are able to takeaction, you know, to try and encourage
them to not do those things,you know what?
Awesome, wonderful.
But again, this is not apurity contest.
It is not about perfection.
It is about taking actionablesteps in the way that makes the most
sense for you in your life.
(15:04):
It's kind of like a tailormade situation to you.
And what those habits arelike, somebody might, I work from
home, so I, you know, I eatall my meals at home.
But like, let's say you workout and work in office and, you know,
have lunch out all the time,and you're constantly getting takeout.
That's one area of opportunityfor you because there's so much waste
(15:25):
that comes with takeout.
So it's just really, it's anindividualized look into how you're
moving through the world andhow you could change those habits
to become just a little bitmore sustainable.
And I think that it's alsolike empowerment as well, because
you're kind of like, I'mtaking control of the situation,
rather letting it control me.
Because I see that a lot in,you know, people who are trying to
(15:49):
get into sustainability.
They're like, well,everything's out of my control.
And I just think that's likegetting a lot of your agency and
autonomy away.
So this is a way to kind ofbring that back and be like, okay,
there are so many things outof my control, but there's so many
other things that I have a choice.
So it's just, it's, it's atightrope walk.
You know, you're constantly,you know, I, I evaluate things and
(16:11):
choices I make constantly.
And having that intentionalityis the most important aspect of all
this.
It's like, if I can, if I canmake a better change, I will.
And if it's maybe Too difficult.
I don't beat myself up over it.
I appreciate you saying thatbecause I see it a lot where people
will say, you know, like,well, it's not us, it's the corporations.
(16:36):
And, like, there's an elementto that, like.
Yeah, yes, okay, yes, 100%.
I totally understand.
But also remember,corporations are made up of people.
Yes.
Number one.
Number two, that does not meanthat you don't make an effort yourself.
And.
And that does not mean thatyou as an individual or you as an
(16:57):
individual and your ability toform and be a part of a community
do not also have agency.
And.
And so, yeah, you know, like,I'm looking at my desk right now,
and I'm like, oh, my God,everything's made of plastic and
rare earth metals, you know,But I've had, you know, I've forgone
upgrades on my phone forhowever many years.
(17:19):
So I've had the same phone,and it's busted all over the place,
but it works, so I keep it.
And I've got my reusable waterbottle and.
But things, you know, they'renot perfect and they haven't solved
everything, but at least I'mnot contributing.
Exactly.
And I love what you saidabout, as an individual, you're also,
you know, forming part of alarger community.
(17:41):
Because that's something I sayall the time.
Although I do have, like, anindividualistic approach to it.
It's just because I want theperson to be able to.
I think that's the only way wemake change.
We make change firstindividually, you know, as a choice
that we make autonomously, andthen those choices ripple.
Right.
And so what I always say isthat we're never just one person.
You are connected to at leastone other person, whether that's
(18:01):
your spouse or a best friendor a sibling or a parent or like
just a friend or a coworker.
You're connected to somebody.
And we all have influence overeach other, whether we recognize
that or not.
And I think that the.
That's the number one way Ichoose to go about it, is to model
the behavior rather than kindof preach the behavior.
Because, like, you know,obviously online it's a little different.
(18:22):
I'm, you know, making contentfor a purpose.
But when it.
When it comes to my personallife, I don't really bring it up
like sustainability principlesor anything, unless somebody brings
it up to me first, mostlybecause I think it brings up a wall
between me and the otherperson where it's like, I'm an expert
or whatever, and they're notso what?
Rather, excuse me, rather thandoing that, I try to just focus on
(18:47):
exemplifying that behavior.
I'm modeling that behavior.
I'm do.
I'm, you know, just bringingmy reusable water bottle.
I'm not opting for plastic.
And they notice.
People notice and people askquestions and even strangers.
Like, I go to the grocerystore and I bring all my reusable
bags and whatever.
And even somebody that theother day asked me, they're like,
what's the difference betweenthose carrots and those carrots?
And one, one set of carrotswere like loose and the other set
(19:09):
of carrots were like bagged uplike two pound bags of carrots.
And I went for the loose ones.
And you know, it was just somestranger lady who asked me and I
said, oh, well, those are inplastic and I prefer non plastic
if I can.
And she was just like.
And then she looked at hercart and her cart was full of those
like little thin plasticsbecause we still have tons of plastic
in Florida.
(19:29):
And it's like thin plasticbags full of produce, like 20 of
them.
And, and she looked at her carand she's like, I should really try
to not use as much plastic.
And I was like, I think if youcan, that's great.
And you know, that's all I said.
I wasn't going to be like, youknow, start, start preaching to her
as to why she should do that.
But she took notice andthat's, that's the only thing I could
hope for.
(19:50):
It's like a pattern disruptionthing, like interrupting the autopilot
of consumerism.
See, we're all just kind oflike rushing to the next thing.
We're not thinking about ourhabits and our choices as much.
But then I think that's thebest part of imperfect sustainability,
is it kind of causes us toslow down and, you know, appreciate
these little moments andchoices and thinking of creative
(20:13):
ways of how to, you know,sidestep plastic and all these other
issues.
So your, your approach, that,that kind of balancing act between,
like making it, you know,here's how you can do it and here's
a livable, sustainable way, nopun intended, of doing this sustainability
stuff without watering downthe urgency of sustainability.
(20:39):
How do you do that?
Because that is tricky.
It's a tricky fine line towalk and you seem to do it really
well.
Thank you.
Honestly, I don't know if I doit really well.
I think that I really, I thinkthere's a lot already a lot of doom
and gloom online about theclimate Change and, I don't know,
(21:00):
maybe a little bit also interms of sustainability being unachievable,
that I kind of try to focus onthe parts that we can control.
Like, I keep coming back tothat because that's really what it's
about to me.
And, you know, I live in astate that's constantly.
I'm in Florida, so I'mconstantly bombarded by hurricanes
and rising tides, and we havea lot of issues down here.
(21:24):
So to me, it's like, I seeclimate change.
I've seen over the past 20, 30years that I've been alive, I've
seen it change so much thatI'm like, it's.
To me, it's inevitable.
For me to keep pointing it outwould be a little silly at this point.
Like, it's.
It's happening, it hashappened, it is happening, it will
continue to happen.
So I don't know if I.
(21:44):
The urgency is more like, notonly does this impact our environmental
health, it also impacts human health.
And I think that's where Ikind of bring the urgency in.
Because although, like, thereis a.
An immediate threat to theenvironment, I think there's an even
more urgent threat to our own bodies.
And we can see that a lot nowrecently with the plastics studies,
(22:05):
all the microplastic andnanoplastics in our bodies and how,
like, they've been found inpretty much every organ in the body,
every organism on the planet.
And I think that if youconsider these aspects, like, you
know, this is just thebeginning of what we know to be the
plastic crisis, you know, andso it's going to get worse.
And I just think that I, assomebody who really cares about health,
(22:25):
individual health, like, Ican't fight climate change if I'm
not healthy myself.
I value that, and it'ssomething that I'm consciously working
against.
So to me, I think that's wherethe urgency comes in.
It's like making theconnection that environmental health
is human health.
I think, yeah, the more we canfind those types of connections because,
(22:47):
yeah, sometimes just theenvironmental part is just too abstract
for people, or people thinkthat, well, it's just going to take
care of itself anyway or,well, that won't affect me because
I've got air conditioning or,you know, whatever it might be.
Oh, we'll have, you know, morebeaches and not so bad, you know,
that kind of thing.
Making those connections,like, y', all, it's not just about,
(23:09):
like, temperature.
It's exactly human health.
It's food availability, it'smigration, it's any.
It's your retirement funds.
It's so many different thingsbeyond that.
Yes, and exactly.
There's so many topics withinsustainability and the ones that
I'm passionate about, evenwhat you said about retirement, like
the fact that our, you know,our retirement accounts are funding
(23:32):
fossil fuels, for instance, wedon't know, you know, like, if we're
not aware of these things,like, it's kind of just happening
in the background.
And yeah, I just think thatthere is that urgency already.
So I kind of just try totemper that with the actionable and
focus on bringing that agency back.
Because I think for so long,sustainability and the environmental
(23:56):
movement has been abouteverything being done onto us.
And I feel like that's justvery disempowering.
So if you have listened to theshow for a while or you follow any
of my social media, you knowthat, like, one of my favorite things
to talk about is theinterconnectedness of everything.
Nothing happens on this planetin isolation down from the molecular
(24:17):
level to the global scale.
It's a planetary living system.
Right.
So one of the things wementioned earlier in the conversation
is that Alexa has been divingfor essentially her entire life,
not quite since a baby.
That would be problematic, butfor a very, very long time.
And her parents own a scubadiving business and all these things.
(24:39):
Now, Alexa is not just asustainability advocate.
She is also an ocean advocateand a reef advocate.
She does lots of things.
She is a person of many hats.
Right.
And sustainability in generalis not just about reducing waste
or reducing consumption.
It is also about understandinghow your actions in those areas are
(25:02):
connected to these larger systems.
And so as much as I want tosay, oh, we're about to pivot the
conversation to talk aboutdiving and witnessing reefs and that
sort of thing, it's not reallya pivot.
I mean, after all, they aredeeply interconnected.
And Alex is going to paint areally beautiful picture for us in
(25:24):
a moment too, about how thingslike diving and reefs and composting
and sustainability are alljust one.
Are all just pieces of abigger, very overwhelming painting.
Say, painting.
I think I'm in puzzle.
I'm all over the place today.
(25:45):
Yeah, I've been scuba divingfor over 20 years.
You know, it is a unique situation.
I got certified when I was 10years old, which is the, like, the
minimum age for scuba diving.
But it's also because I grewup in that industry.
My parents had that business.
So I was just immersed and itwould be like, I have two younger
sisters.
We all got certified at 10years old.
I'm a padi dive master as well.
(26:06):
So I'm professional levelscuba diver.
And I would say that just overthe years, I've seen the coral reefs
change a lot in South Florida, specifically.
That's where I do a lot of my diving.
So I've just seen not just thereefs, but, like, the life in general
has just changed.
When I was younger and, youknow, part of this can be I was young
(26:28):
and enjoying myself so much,but the life was so much more vibrant
than I see it nowadays.
But, I mean, I have so manyother people in my life to corroborate
that information.
Like, it's not just mefeeling, you know, that nostalgic,
you know, memory of thebeautiful reefs.
It's.
It really has changed over thepast 20 years, and it's become a
(26:50):
little bit more desolate.
And I'm sure, you know, peoplehave heard about the bleaching and
the negative impacts ofclimate change with the rising temperatures
that we have in South Floridathat are, you know, kind of, I don't
want to say killing the reefs,because bleaching is not killing
the coral, but it's negativelyimpacting the reefs.
All right, quick sandbar.
(27:11):
Like.
Like a, like a sidebar,anyway, or picture this.
You're a coral.
You're not just some boringundersea rock.
Oh, no.
You are a living, breathing,glow in the dark party host.
And you have a roommate.
Her name, Zozo Lanthole.
She's a tiny algae, amicroalgal miracle.
And she photosynthesizes likea champ, turning sunlight into food.
(27:33):
She pays rent and sugar,something that you need desperately.
You've got a sweet tooth.
And you also need that inorder to conduct cellular respiration
in your mitochondria.
And without that, you would die.
You give her a cozy home.
She gives you snacks and color.
It's beautiful.
It's symbiotic.
It's peak friendship goals.
But then you're a littlestressed out.
(27:54):
The ocean starts to heat up, like.
Like way up.
It's acidifying, and you just.
You just can't.
You just can't keep it together.
So your little algal roommatestarts acting weird.
So weird, in fact, that yourimmune system's like, no, you know
what?
Get her.
Get her out.
Evict.
(28:15):
Evict.
And suddenly she's gone.
And without her, you're notjust alone.
You've lost the color in your life.
You're pale, like bone white,like a ghost of your former self.
Now, that's coral bleaching ina nutshell.
(28:35):
Like an Acorn is an oak tree.
Now, you're not dead yet, butyou're not thriving either.
You're depressed, you'restarving, exposed, vulnerable to
disease.
You're just laying on thecouch and honestly just trying to
hang on.
Coral bleaching is a desperateresponse to stress, mostly from warming
waters, thanks to climate change.
(28:56):
Thanks ExxonMobil.
Other offenders includepollution, overexposure to sunlight,
or even just a really bad low tide.
If conditions don't improvefast enough.
That's, that's when we getinto the area of like, you know,
death.
If your algal buddy doesn'tmove back in, you might die.
You're that codependent.
(29:16):
And that's heartbreakingbecause coral reefs support 25%.
I'm going to get really closeto the mic here.
Coral reefs, despite coveringlike 1% of the ocean, support 25%
of all marine life.
That's like being the landlordof an undersea apartment complex
and accidentally evictingeveryone, everyone, every.
(29:42):
Just.
Are you kidding me?
So anyway, coral bleachingisn't like, oh, let me just be white
for a little bit.
No, it's, it's like a really,really big red flag from the ocean
saying, hey, can we maybe coolit down?
It's getting hot.
But here's the hopeful part.
If we do cool it, if we reduceemissions, protect Reese, let nature
(30:04):
do her thing, some corals canbounce back.
That algae might just return.
The color, the life, theparty, it could all come back.
Science, policy, and maybe alittle bit of compassion can help
reefs go from ghost towns toget this ready, ready, ready, Glow
towns again.
(30:25):
I don't think people realizehow much all of life, not only just
in the ocean, but in the world.
All of us humans, every partof the food web, is dependent on
the ocean and coral reefs specifically.
And you can see a lot lessfish, a lot less big fish.
And that's not just fromclimate change and rising sea temperatures.
(30:46):
It's also from like invasivespecies like flying fish and poor
water quality and things like that.
But yeah, unfortunately I haveseen things change and that's why
I feel like it is part of myduty as somebody who has been doing
this for a long time to makethat known and just make those connections
(31:08):
too, about not.
It's not just oceanconservation or, you know, land based
conservation.
It's all the same and it's,they're impacting one another.
And whether you live on thecoast or in a landlocked state, you
are being impacted by the ocean.
And yeah, that's that's,there's, it's such a vast subject,
but it's so important to theclimate conversation.
(31:31):
I wish some people, I wishpeople understood a little bit more
about corals in general.
Like, that they're an animal,not a plant that, you know, although
they only cover 1% of all theocean floor, they house 25% of all
marine life.
So that's like insane to think about.
Like, this is a global, youknow, figure, not just in South Florida.
(31:55):
And when it comes to thethreats, I think, I just wish people
knew that everything was connected.
I think people think that ifcoral reefs die, it'll just be like
another extinct species, youknow, that we didn't really, didn't
really affect us.
But in the end, every speciesaffects us.
Like the extinction of anyspecies affects us.
(32:16):
I'm not saying we're going tosee the extinction of the species.
Like, you know, like, ofcourse, cor.
Like, of corals as a whole.
There's so many coralrestoration efforts being, being
done all over the world.
I hope that doesn't, itdoesn't get to that point by my,
my point of all this is justto say that if it does, that would
be detrimental to the human race.
(32:36):
And I, I do believe like therest of the natural world will make
do and find a way to adapt,but I think humans are going to be
tremendously impacted and Ijust wish we could care a little
bit more about ocean conservation.
And you know, like I mentionedbefore, not just if you're in the
coast, on the coast, but likeinland it matters just as much.
(32:57):
We get 50% of all of theoxygen available to us from the ocean.
You know, we always attributethat to trees, but like, trees only
do half of the work, you know,and we need all.
Like, I think that's justanother way to say we need all of
these ecosystems working together.
We can't just have one or the other.
And that to me that's justlike, mind blowing.
(33:19):
And Also it absorbs 30% of allthe carbon in the atmosphere.
So, like, that's huge.
Like, that's why we haven'treally seen these drastic, drastic
effects like, that we thoughtwe might have seen already just because
the ocean has absorbed so muchthat heat, which is insane if you
think about.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I even think about, like,inland because I'm in, I'm in Minnesota
(33:41):
and like, I do a whole lessonsequence and stuff about like, farm,
farm to phytoplankton, likehow, you know, things that we do
here cause impacts in like,the Mississippi, and then how that
flows out and the dead zonesand like, you know, you're.
You're connected to the ocean.
Even if you're, you know, 1500miles away, you are connected.
(34:01):
Some of those other impactsabout, you know, the oxygen one.
I'm always so fascinated bythat, and I just, I wish more people
knew that because it's just so cool.
That's just amazing, you know,and reefs as.
What's the word I'm lookingfor, like, diffusers of waves and
things, you know, that's,that's also an important function.
(34:22):
And like, you know, peoplejust kind of think, oh, it's just
some pretty animals that might disappear.
It's like, well, a little morethan that.
They create these barriersthat are protecting hundreds of millions
of dollars of assets on the coast.
Like, that's just like, youknow, I.
Economically, they're soimportant to us.
(34:43):
Like, we in South Floridaspecifically, we could not live here
if we did not have corals.
And that's the part that Iwish people understood is that like,
we, we need that.
But like you said before, it's.
I think the part of the issueis that some people or most people
will never experience whatit's like to dive in a coral reef
(35:03):
or, or even like they, it'sjust so.
It's such a different world tothem that they don't even think about
it.
It's just sight on unseen thatthey're just like, oh, it's out of
sight, out of mind.
I don't, I don't know what'sgoing on over there.
It must be nothing.
So, yeah, it's.
There's so much going on underthe surface.
So that connection, becauseyou, you work with coral now, you've.
(35:26):
And then, and then, you know,the, the growing foods and, and the
composting.
And I couldn't help but belike, wow, that's like, that's like
the circle right there.
What, what for you.
Like, I.
Just curious, like, if you, ifyou had to like, tell somebody how
those things were connected,what would you say?
(35:46):
Oh, okay.
So it's such a big topic, butI love, I love this topic.
So whatever we do on landaffects the ocean.
Because as we kind of like youalluded to, like, the Mississippi's
connected, goes back to the ocean.
Every waterway comes back tothe ocean.
Right?
So we.
It's connected and it's allone big ocean.
We like to call it oceans, butit's all one big ocean.
(36:08):
And, you know, the world'scovered by 70% of it, so.
That is one thing to thinkabout, like the diffusion alone of
all, like anything.
That's why plastic is such aproblem because it's just being taken
all over the world via theocean and you know, our trade winds
and things like that.
But so composting forinstance, like I, I guess I should
(36:31):
talk about the absence of it.
When you don't compost, youare what you are sending right now,
like what a lot of states aredoing in Florida included because
we don't have municipalcomposting in Florida.
But you are putting yourorganic matter into a trash bag.
The trash bag is nowsuffocating that organic matter.
It's only getting some oxygen,but, or oxygen is required for decomposition,
(36:54):
right?
So that not only is it goingto the landfill in that plastic bag,
it's going to be layered ontop of other trash.
The lack of oxygen now causesonly a partial decay of that organic
material.
That organic material is nowlike partially decayed and mixing
with the other trash in thebag and in the landfill, which is
like leading out, leaching outA leachate is what it's called.
(37:16):
And it's basically like atoxic sludge that emits methane,
which methane is a very potentgreenhouse gas that leads to the
warming of the atmosphere.
Right.
And so landfills emit a lot ofmethane causing the warming of the
atmosphere.
The warming on the atmosphereis causing the warming of the oceans
and is contributing to thedeath of corals.
(37:38):
Right.
So I guess like it's maybeeasier to explain it in that way
that without this system,without the compost property waste
management systems, this is a,an issue that's affecting not just
the land but the ocean as well.
And another part of that is agriculture.
A huge problem that we have inSouth Florida, in Florida in general,
(37:59):
is that agricultural practices are.
They use a lot of syntheticfertilizer and synthetic fertilizer
is awful for the environment.
And basically it's when youput too much of it and especially
in a place like Florida whereit rains a lot there, it's there,
there's runoff from that fertilizer.
That, that fertilizer isbasically just an excess of nutrients.
(38:22):
Those nitrogen rich nutrientsend up in our waterways and then
end up in the ocean.
And I'm sure a lot of peoplehave heard of, and if you haven't,
I'd recommend looking up redtide and blue algae.
But it's basically causes thisimbalance in our oceans and our waterways
that leads to like an algal bloom.
So a lot of algae justspawning up and causing, you know,
(38:46):
basically A choke, choking outoxygen and all the nutrients that
these, the ecosystem andspecifically fish need to survive.
So you know, that was causedfrom agriculture, but it's also caused
from improper waste managementfrom the methane.
So the, all these systems areconnected, right, because we, we
(39:09):
need proper waste managementsystems to not, not raise this temperature
in our atmosphere.
So then we don't have risingsea temperatures.
And then also those algaeblooms are like made, made worse
by warming temperatures.
So it's kind of like, I thinkthat the ocean bears the brunt of
a lot of these issues.
(39:30):
And it's only because it'slike able to absorb so much that
we don't really notice it as much.
And it's like more the coastalcities that are experiencing it right
now.
But I think over time we'regoing to see more and more inland
cities be affected, but not,but not just from like land pollution,
land issues, but it'll be fromlike coastal or ocean based problems.
(39:53):
Yeah, I did this thing at theend of the year last year that I
was just thinking about wherewe had like all these models that
we'd done and we had made themprogressively more complicated throughout
the year.
But then kind of like as wewere nearing the end I was like,
well let's like just simplifythis, right?
We've got all these inputs andall these outputs and all these things
going on.
Let's just reduce this down tolike what, what is it at its base
(40:15):
and kind of just got it downto like life and death and circle
of life.
And I was like, I mean, yeah,you know, that's what all this is,
is about is this, this, thiscontinuation of this cycle of life
and death and then back tolife, this reciprocity, this, you
know, give and take ofeverything and, and that's what it's
(40:36):
all about.
And so wherever you can inyour life have awareness of your
actions are all kind of a partof this cycle, this, this larger
cycle of contributing to lifeor contributing to death.
Both are needed, both are necessary.
But what is your role in it?
And you know like somethinglike composting is, you are seeing
to renewal in that process ofdeath, if you want to say death,
(41:00):
you know, that process ofrenewal in it of you know, recycling
these nutrients for use togive more life and, and how that
is in itself reducing, youknow, impacts that could lead to
death distantly far away fromyou and stuff.
It's just, it's, it's, it'scool, it's a cool mirror in a way
(41:21):
to hold up, you know, Thesepractices of, like, composting in
your daily life and how thatcan connect, you know, to the oceans
themselves.
And you said it.
You did say it very well.
Like, how it's all.
How it's all connected on those.
Those, like, really big scales.
It also freaks me out a littlebit just thinking about, like, how
much organic stuff is justtrapped up in.
(41:42):
In garbage.
And I.
Sometimes I think about, like, water.
Then we have so much bottled water.
Yeah.
Like, how much ends up inlandfills with, like, the lid on
in the plastic bottles.
And this is fresh drinkingwater that is just now locked in
a landfill somewhere.
That's kind of scary.
Yeah.
That's so important to think about.
It's like.
And even, like, a banana, forinstance, like a banana peel.
(42:05):
It takes, like eight years orsomething for a banana peel to break
down in the landfill.
Whereas, like, in a compostsystem, maybe like in Florida, probably
like a couple weeks, like.
Yeah.
Which is crazy.
Yeah.
And it really is so easy to do.
You mentioned the.
The.
The vermiculture, Ben, incollege, I did the same thing.
Oh.
It was like a random point.
I was just like, you know what?
(42:26):
This sounds fun.
Let's do it.
And like, you know, peoplewere friends of mine.
They're like, that's gonna stink.
Like, what's wrong with you?
Why would you do that?
And stuff?
And I was like, I don't know.
I just wanna see.
I didn't have any issues with it.
It was super easy to maintain.
It's just throw in scraps hereand there and then use the compost
to, like, grow plants and stuff.
It was awesome.
I loved it.
Yeah.
(42:46):
You do that in my room.
What am.
Why am I not doing that?
That would be a great idea forthe kids because, like, I don't know,
I loved worms as a kid.
I still love worms.
But, like.
Yeah.
A lot of people would be,like, freaked out.
They're like, you're justgonna have a box of worms in the
house.
And I'm like, I mean, they're outside.
Yeah.
Like, I don't know.
I don't find them that gross.
I think that, like, thatthey're essential to life.
(43:07):
So I don't know.
I can't.
Like, they're writhing aroundon the carpet or something, you know,
like, they're.
They're sealed up, like.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
So a little heavier.
Not that sustainability ingeneral can't be really heavy, but.
Yeah.
When you take a step back andyou really start to, like, take it
(43:29):
all in and, like, all theseconnections and sometimes the Guilt
or the burnout or the news, the.
The pressures and stuff.
How.
How do you navigate.
How do you navigate all ofthat ego anxiety?
(43:54):
Yeah.
I will say that's like anormal part of being, like, a conscious,
aware person.
Right.
I think that, like, ignorancereally is bliss.
And I feel like, wow,sometimes, like, wouldn't it be nice
to just not care as much?
But I think at the end, it'salso a blessing because I just think
that empathy is important.
Right.
And I think that with all ofthis, I come back to the fact that
(44:19):
there are so many people doingamazing things out there to help
the environment and to bringcommunity together for the greater
good.
I think that there's so manyamazing organizations out there,
but not even just that.
I think what I do personallywhen I'm feeling really down is get
in community.
And one of my favorite placesto go is my community garden.
(44:41):
And whenever I'm there, like,the people are so friendly who work
there, and anybody who's justvisiting is so kind and willing to
spark up a conversation.
But, like, usually they haveevents at my garden, and I can, like,
plant fruit trees or just cometogether for, like, an art kind of
crafting situation.
And, like, every time I leavethose events, I'm, like, so full
(45:03):
and so happy and sooptimistic, and I just feel like,
wow, there's just so manyamazing people out there that truly
care.
It's not just me.
I'm not alone, you know,because I think that's so easy to
feel like, oh, God, I'm so alone.
I. I'm the only one who caresabout this or, you know, what is
my one contribution or, youknow, mean, like, foregoing a plastic
(45:25):
bag.
What is that actually doingfor the environment?
And I think that's really.
It's just a natural loop thatwe get in as, like, conscious people
and people who maybe overthink things.
I overthink things.
So I just feel like you.
It's natural to get into that space.
And I just think that thenumber one thing I would say is,
like, label that.
That it's natural and be like,okay, this is.
(45:46):
Other people feel like this as well.
And especially other people inthe environmental space or even just
people who care about nature,that love nature.
They're, like, you know,worried about it vanishing.
I think that's a normalfeeling for those people, for any
of us.
So I think that the number onething is connecting with community
and then connecting withorganizations, because, you know,
(46:06):
we can do a lot as anindividual, but we can do so much
more together.
Collectively.
And it really brings a lot of joy.
Even if you're not doinganything like that.
Environmentally focused.
Like, even just being in anorganization where it's like they're
doing something positive forthe surrounding community can be
so uplifting.
And I think that we reallyneed to really focus on those activities
(46:30):
at this time especially.
Yeah, yeah.
Is there something recentlythat you've done or maybe an interaction
on a post or something likethat that's like, really stood out
to you, that, like, broughtyou joy and was, like a good reminder
of, you know, why you do whatyou do?
I will say last Sunday, I waspart of a reef cleanup, and it was
(46:52):
like a tri county reef cleanup.
So we had five different diveboats in three different counties
go out at the same time.
And was over 100 divers allcleaning the same stretch of reef,
but, you know, different partsof it.
We have over 350 miles of reefin South Florida, but we were cleaning
about, I would say, like ahundred, like, throughout.
(47:13):
And that brought me immensejoy, carried me throughout the week.
And I just even just stoppedto think about, like, all the people
that came out for that event.
Like, diving is not a.
It's a.
It could be an expensive hobby.
So, like, to see people, like,choose to use this hobby and their
time and their energy andtheir money in this way to support
(47:37):
a conservation event like thatand to really just pull up trash,
like, that's all we're doingis like, we're diving, we're enjoying
ourselves.
Of course, we're seeingbeautiful things, but also we're
pulling up trash.
And I.
It just brought me suchimmense joy.
And I've been through.
I've been part of so manycleanups throughout my life below
the water, like, under thewater and above.
But like, this onespecifically, I was just so grateful
(48:00):
to be part of.
And I think that it comes backto that community piece.
Right?
Like, it wasn't.
It's.
It's fun doing it by yourself.
Like going on a personal beach cleanup.
I do that often, but, like,when I do with other people, I'm
like, oh, this is why I dowhat I do.
And I love it so much.
I wasn't even there.
And I feel like that's goingto carry me, like, through the.
Through the week like that.
(48:21):
Just to hear, you know, thatthere's other people out there and
that there's people out therewho are volunteering their time to
do that sort of thing.
So for people listening, whatwould be.
And I know this is tricky.
This is a tricky thing.
Especially because it's kindof different for everybody.
And I get that.
But if there was somethingthat you personally could ask everybody
(48:44):
listening to do just one smallstep that they could take after hearing
this episode, what would youwant that to be?
Okay, so you said it was goingto be a little complicated, so I'm,
I'm going to start with one.
But I have a caveat.
So the number one thing Iwould suggest that if you wanted
to make an impact as anindividual and in my opinion makes
(49:05):
the biggest impact overall, Iwould say it's composting.
I would say find a way todivert that organic material from
the landfill to the earth.
And there's so many ways to do that.
Like I mentioned before, wedon't have municipal services here
in Florida for composting.
I live in an apartment, so Ican't do it myself anymore.
(49:26):
I grew up doing that, but Ican't do that anymore.
So I use a service in my areaand it's like a valet service kind
of thing.
They give me a five gallonbucket, I fill it up with organics
they, you know, put outside mydoor on my pickup day, they swap
it out for a clean bucket andthe process continues.
They take it to like a largefacility, like a.
It's basically a lot of landand they just have these big piles
(49:47):
where they can process thatmaterial so you can search for like
a service in your area andit's really affordable.
And I'd say it's somethingthat like would make the most impact
as an individual.
There's also community gardensthat offer like composting for the
community.
You could find a drop off location.
Like sometimes there are freedrop off locations and free as in
(50:07):
subsidized.
So someone always pays forthese services.
Just keeping that in mind,waste management is very important
and should be paid for and itis paid for by somebody.
So, you know, communitygardens, doing it at home using a
vermicomposter.
There's so many different waysto go about it.
That's what I would suggest.
And then with that, I wouldlove to give you like three different
(50:30):
things that you could do.
But I would say I think themost important and impactful thing
besides composting would be tojust start becoming aware of your
most common and repetitivehabits and actions and just thinking
about how you can make thataction more sustainable.
(50:52):
And whether that's carpoolinginstead of just, you know, driving
separately or that's bringingor opting for a reusable water bottle
and filter situation ratherthan buying classic water bottles
or, you know, bringing.
Looking at the packaging whenyou're at the grocery store, if you
(51:12):
have the option for glassinstead of plastic or, you know,
loose produce rather thanpackaged produce.
And it's really just bringingit back to that awareness.
And then once you startbecoming aware, you can start making
those changes.
But it has to start with thatpause before you make an action.
(51:35):
Sometimes just noticing,really noticing that that is the
spark, that that is thebeginning of change.
Thank you, Alexa Pavan, forjoining me today on this episode
of the Wildlife.
Sustainability is somethingthat I don't spend enough time talking
(51:56):
about, just, you know,sustainable living, sustainable lifestyle,
that sort of thing.
And I just appreciate theopportunity to, to be able to do
so.
As we ended the interview, wealso had some conversation about,
like, bringing composting intothe classroom and that sort of thing.
So that's a conversation thatwe're going to have a little bit
more of.
We might be collaborating on acarousel post to share kind of what
(52:18):
we discuss and learn and allthat stuff as well with, with all
of you.
And so I'm, I'm excited for that.
I'm excited for the schoolyear to start.
I can't believe I'm sayingthat, but.
But I am.
And to maybe try, try some ofthat stuff out.
So, again, if you would liketo follow Alexa on social media,
check out her Instagram.
It's great.
Go green with Alexa.
(52:40):
She's got all sorts ofaccessible tips for how you can make
sustainability a reality.
I was trying to think of a punand I couldn't.
I couldn't.
It's just early and I haven'thad enough coffee.
Coffee is my pun juice.
Anyway, thanks for listening.
I'm Devin Boker, this is the Wildlife.
(53:01):
And if you would like tosupport this show, you know, I just
want to throw out there.
Okay, if you'd like to supportthe show as little as a dollar a
month, you can dothat@patreon.com the wildlife.
And it's, it's.
When I say dollar a month, theamount of things that I've put out,
right?
Videos, podcast episodes,things like that.
Look, I post way too much.
(53:22):
Sometimes I post like four orfive times a day.
It's ridiculous.
It's a sickness.
We're talking like nickels onthe nickels on the dime.
Is that the right term?
We're talking like nickels,like nickels per, per piece of content.
If I don't post, I couldalways give you your nickel back.
I need to stop.
I should be stopped.
Someone run me over.
(53:43):
Please don't.
Actually, that.
That would be painful anddeeply unfortunate for my children.
You could just.
I'm just saying.
All I'm trying to say is it's.
I. I put out a lot of stuff.
My Field Guide to Wonderseries, my toolkit on climate action,
my.
My series beyond the Count on.
On Wolf conservation, thepodcast, the other random videos
(54:05):
and things like that.
It would.
It would just be nice and helpful.
Editing software, things like that.
It.
It all adds up.
It gets quite expensive.
And so anything that can helphelp me to continue doing this is
obviously appreciated.
It's.
It helps me keep it get this sustainable.
And if you'd like to supportfor no dollars, that's totally fine,
(54:28):
too.
Fun fact.
You can join the Patreon forfree without spending any money.
It.
It's a.
It's a whole thing.
You just don't get as many ofthe cool perks as people who do join
for dollars.
I think the discord issomething that you can join.
I'm gonna be straight up.
I've been, like, trying to getthat discord going, like, hey, y',
all, let's talk about animals.
(54:49):
And just not a lot of peopledoing that yet.
So if you're like, I'd love tohop in there and talk about animals,
please.
Thank you.
I'd love that.
You could also just rate andreview the show wherever you're listening,
Listening Spotify, Apple,podcast, any of those things.
I'm rambling at this point.
I've been going for 3 minutesand 42 seconds, and the odds are
you are no longer listening.
(55:10):
You went, oh, the episode's done.
And you.
You ended, you exited, you didsomething else.
You're moving on to other things.
So if you are still here,let's just have a moment to pause
together in silence.
Thank you.
That was quite nice, actually.
Very short, but that's all Icould handle.
All right, well, stay curious.
(55:32):
Get outside, assuming you aresomewhere that's not having incredibly
horrible air quality likemyself and peace out, rainbow trots.
See you next time, Sam.
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