Social Media Strategies for Photographers to Amplify Conservation Efforts with Dana Cama

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Court (00:00):
Welcome, friends, to the Wild Photographer.
I'm your host, court Whalen, andwe have a wonderful guest today
, dana Kama, a super prowildlife, nature, landscape and
travel photographer that isjoining us in a variety of
capacities.
Not only is she a great prophotographer, but she has
probably one of the sharpestminds I know in terms of

(00:21):
understanding social media intoday's day and age.
And what I find so applicable,so helpful here is our ability
to be useful when it comes toour photography, and I think she
shares some really, reallyinsightful tips, not just in her
own style of photography, butalso how we can use our
photography for the good ofconservation and awareness

(00:42):
building.
But before I begin, before Iget into the conversation, I
wanted to cover a couple quickthings.
One I would love to startanswering your questions about
nature and wildlife photographyon air.
So if you would like to headover to my website and enter a
question that you would like meto answer during these episodes,
I will choose a question eachepisode and get to you

(01:03):
personally for your queries onnature and wildlife photography.
So head over to courtweylandcom, submit a question anda comment
there in the contact field.
That's C-O-U-R-T-W-H-E-L-A-Ncom, just first and last name
courtweylandcom, enter aquestion there and I will answer
at least one question perepisode going forward.

(01:25):
So that's a chance to get somesome direct communication for
any and all questions out there.
In addition, I want to alwaysthank our primary sponsors,
lensrentalscom.
If you head over to theirwebsite and use the promo code
wild photographer 15, you willget 15 off your order, which is
fantastic.
And, like I said, I I lovelensrentalscom.

(01:46):
I use them a lot myself becauseit's a great way to try out
gear, to know if you think youmight want to own that going
forward, or try out a reallyfancy piece of gear when you're
going on your next safari, yournext foray into the woods, so to
speak, and experiment with alens that you don't normally get
to use.
So, lensrentalscom, big thanks.

(02:06):
Awesome company out there, oneof my favorites.
So, without further ado, thatwas the housekeeping stuff.
Let's get into our conversationwith Dana Kama.
Dana, welcome to the WildPhotographer, thanks for being
here.
Thanks, court.
In full disclosure, dana and Iwork pretty closely at Natural
Habitat Adventures.
We're in marketing and Dana isa social media guru and I have

(02:29):
learned so much from her overthe years and we're going to
definitely get to that partbecause I think that's one of
the most interesting dimensionsof this talk today is how to use
photography to either promoteyour own brand or your own kind
of label, so to speak, or to useit for conservation value, or
to get hired for conservationslash, travel photography, all

(02:51):
those sort of things, socialmedia is this really really
interesting new dimension to itall?
And when I say new, I'm datingmyself, because this has been
around for some time now.
I still view it as likeyesterday, so we won't worry
about that.
But so my point is we are goingto get to that.
But I want to hear more aboutyour overall journey in

(03:11):
photography, because you're aphenomenal photographer and,
although most of what you do andpost for the job we work at
together is not your ownphotography, you have an
exceptional eye for photography.
We're on a judging panel for aphoto contest coming up soon and
I want to hear about your ownjourney, kind of getting into

(03:31):
the photographic world, which Ican only imagine no doubt
somehow overlapped or led you tothis image heavy social type
world too, but I won't put wordsin your mouth.
Tell me about your journey inphotography, dana.

Dana (03:44):
Yeah, thanks.
Well, thanks for having me.
This is cool.
Luckily, I've had a camera inmy hand since I was like 12.
It's been nice.
My dad gave me my grandfather'sCanon AE-1 little film camera
when I was 12 years old andtaught me how to load film and

(04:05):
sort of like, sent me on my wayto go and take pictures, and so
I was pretty, pretty young andmy high school had a photo
program which was awesome.
We had a dark room and I hadsome pretty amazing photo
teachers at the time that werejust sort of teaching me the
basics of photography.
So I lived in the darkroom fromlike ninth grade to twelfth

(04:29):
grade and you know, I didn'thave a car then, so it was just
me out on my bike doing whatkids do, but with a camera, and
then going into the darkroom andlearning about dodging and
burning and like all the sort ofnatural basics of photography,
and kind of became really goodfriends with my photo teachers

(04:52):
in like a kid way and they wouldgive me slips to get out of my
other classes so that I couldjust spend all of my time in the
photo room.
So it was my excuse to get outof class and also I just became
totally obsessed withphotography then.
But when I was a teenager, theaccess that I had to things to

(05:13):
photograph when like reallyfocusing on those basics of like
looking for light and movementwas my friends, which happened
to be a bunch of punk kids outon bikes and in bands.
So I started to become a littlemusic photographer and that

(05:33):
took me down a path for quite anumber of years as a touring
music photographer in my earlyage I actually photographed for
some magazines like pretty younglike Spin Magazine, alternative
Press Magazine, like some otherstuff, and back then there
weren't a lot of like younggirls doing that kind of thing

(05:56):
and I just got pretty lucky thatsome of my friends' bands were
pretty successful.
And I think that's where I gotreally interested in
photojournalism and gettingreally close to my subjects.
And yeah, like I just spentsome time traveling in my like

(06:20):
after high school as I continuedtouring around with some bands
and photographing.
Then I decided I needed to goto college.
So I went to college forphotojournalism.
Sometime during that period oftime I grew up in New York, sort
of like sidetracked there, fora second Hurricane, sandy

(06:41):
happened, my entire neighborhoodwas destroyed, and that I was
sort of in the peak of learningabout photojournalism.
I had some pretty amazingprofessors at the time and right
when the storm was happening, Ilike sort of begged my parents.
I was like, can I stay in thehouse during the storm?

(07:02):
I want to photograph the storm,like I was like this is like a
peak photojournalist moment,sort of thing.
They did not let me, of course,and like FEMA forced us to leave
, but anyways, after the storm,photographed the storm, a bunch
saw my neighborhood sort of liketurned upside down, boats
through houses, like environmenttotally destroyed.

(07:24):
And where I grew up was verymuch this place where, like, the
environment wasn't reallysomething that you talked about
a lot.
It was like my dad was afisherman and the ocean was a
resource, but you don't, itwasn't sort of this like we care
about the earth kind of thingit was just like yeah, the view

(07:46):
of nature was from a differentlens, like nature existed, but
the way you talk about it, thinkabout it, maybe conserve it
different type of.

Court (07:55):
Yeah, I 100% hear you there.

Dana (07:57):
Totally yeah.
When Hurricane Sandy happenedand our entire neighborhood was
trashed, covered in oil and likejust totally decimated, this
like switch went off for me andI was just like, well, why is

(08:18):
nobody talking about this?
Like our entire neighborhoodwas underwater Homes filled up
floor to ceiling.
Like I should be focusing onbeing a photojournalist, like
focused on the environment.
So I started majoring.
My minor then becameenvironmental sciences, with a
major in photojournalism andthat sort of stuck with me

(08:42):
throughout college.
Of stuck with me throughoutcollege and around the same sort
of time I ended up focusing alot of my free time in
volunteering, photographing forsome nonprofits on the side,
because a lot of my professorswere sort of recommending that
if we want to have something tofocus on, is that we need to

(09:03):
pick a focus and a story, notjust making images about nothing
.
But I ended up through them,meaning a nonprofit that does a
lot of work in Haiti, and Iended up spending a lot of time

(09:40):
doing journalist work in Haitiwith a bunch of doctors, and the
kind of work I was doing therewas certainly not glamorous at
all, probably some of the mostdifficult images I've ever had
to make, but really, reallynecessary for them to get donors
back in the States to do thework that they're doing.

(10:02):
And I went back to Haiti quitea few times to do that kind of
work and that was some of themost humbling and I think the
work that really sort of set thetone for how I continued on my
career the rest of my life.
And then after that I met somewildlife veterinarians who also

(10:28):
asked me to work with them indifferent areas throughout the
world.
Also, they were doing sometrainings and raising money to
basically train in other partsof the world wildlife vets, like
local wildlife vets.
So I was photographing the workthat they were doing to get

(10:49):
donors in the States as well.
So it wasn't this kind of likeglamorous, pretty, I'm making
pretty wildlife images, butreally focusing on photographing
these trainings and doing moreof like that type of journalism
work so that they could getmoney back in the States.
And that was sort of where mycareer was before Nathab and my

(11:15):
main job was working for thislike photo printing company just
to sort of pay the bills.
But where my heart was wasdoing a lot of the nonprofit
work and in between all of thatI was in and out of living in
cars and and like hopping aroundto living in different states
and sort of figuring out where Icould make pictures and be

(11:41):
inspired for myself all alongthe way as well.
So I feel like photography hassort of been the thread in my
needle throughout my entire lifeand has been what has like
drawn me to do all aspects of mylife consistently, and
eventually I ended up here atthis social media role at Nathab

(12:05):
and really I think I've alwayssort of been a supporter of what
other people are doing and Ifeel like that's kind of what
I'm like doing a lot of now.
Here is like all of our fieldteam is out in the world doing
all this amazing stuff forconservation, and if that's the

(12:27):
way that I can best support allthe work that we're doing for
conservation is like giving thema bigger voice.
That's what I'm going to do andI'll make the fun images myself
on the side and we get to go tosome pretty amazing places and
if I can send my images in foryou know like sometimes WWF

(12:48):
needs stuff for some of theother old nonprofits that I work
for, I'll send them some of myimages as well, but it's kind of
always been in the back of myhead of like, how can my images
be of best use in the world inwhatever like capacity they need
to be?
Or how can I be of best use inthe world in whatever like
capacity they need to be?
Or how can I be of best use of,like, supporting others in what

(13:10):
they're doing?
So that's been kind of myphotographic journey.
And now, like gosh, socialmedia has become like such a big
tool in being able to expandthe voice of conservation and
nonprofit work and and all thesekinds of things and it.

(13:31):
I know a lot of people hate onit and I think if you get on the
wrong side of it, it can bereally terrible, but it also can
be such an amazing tool if it'sused in the right way.

Court (13:41):
So, yeah, that is a fantastic journey and you know
I've known you for a couple ofyears now.
I didn't know like any of that.
That is all news to me and it'sreally awesome to hear Gosh the
hurricane thing.
Definitely did not know aboutthat.
We'll have to talk offlinesometime about our shared
hurricane stories.

Dana (14:01):
I know you've been through it too.
Yeah, oh, yeah yeah, they're.
They're fun up until a certainpoint yeah, and I was a kid, so
I was just like at first I waslike, oh, perfect photo,
photojournalism story for me,right.
And then after the fact I waslike, oh, this is terrible.
I have to like, we're just likeputting on these like full body

(14:24):
.
It was like apocalyptic suitsto go into our neighbors' homes
and clear out trash.
It was not what I had thoughtit was going to be.

Court (14:35):
No, that is wild, that is wild.
Well, no doubt your variety ofexperiences and versatility
translates to everything thatyou're into today, and there are
a couple of things that yousaid.
I want to come back to One.
I think it's really cool tohear about your stories in the
darkroom and with AE1 and with,like a printing company, some of

(14:57):
these frankly kind of like oldschool aspects of photography
that at one time that wasphotography, that was everything
.
How do you feel that some ofthose original type methods and
media, like film and printing,might translate to either your
eye or your vision or your work,your perspective on photography

(15:20):
today?

Dana (15:21):
Yeah, so much.
I think.
When you first asked me to dothis podcast, I was like, just
so you know, I'm not like atechie photographer at all.
I am very much a person who'sjust like I look for light, I
look for stories and I look for,like, the feel and emotion of

(15:43):
an image and sometimes I feellike, even when I'm shooting, I
have to sort of remind myself oflike oh, you can take multiple
images, like you're shooting ondigital, you know, but I do
sometimes will, especially ifit's somewhere where I've really
put a lot of time into a place.
I will sort of wait more for theright moments because I don't

(16:06):
want to like edit a ton afterthe fact of like going through
thousands of images.
But I think that I spend a lotof time in places waiting for
light and I think that that likehistory that I have with film
comes from that.

(16:26):
When I went to school, theyfirst asked us to take a large
format camera and carry itaround New York City and make
pictures, and that is like sucha big commitment and that is
like such a big commitment.

Court (16:47):
Is that the kind of camera with, like the flash box?
That like lights on fire, a bigaccordion thing and like a
tripod that looks like abrahamlincoln built it.

Dana (16:52):
That's for thing and like yeah I'm carrying that around on
the subway and going todifferent spots in new york city
and looking for light.
So now I feel like that is likeso ingrained in me that I'm, I
will go and to places and justlike find places that have
amazing light and then wait formoments where wildlife will come

(17:16):
into the frame or, like youknow, predicting if an animal is
going to like come into thisspot or hope they're going to
come into that spot.
They often don't, you know, butlike then maybe I'm just taking
a photo of the light itself.
Or yeah, I think I've also justtried to like play around with
other tools with light.

(17:38):
Like last year I like picked upthis little like prism tool and
I'm like, oh, let me like playaround with this, putting it in
front of my camera and playingwith light, and so I think, like
the whole film my home filmhistory has really made me dial
back on, like shooting as asmuch and really focusing on

(18:02):
looking for light.
I also don't spend as much timeediting, perhaps, and I also
think more about like the whybehind when I'm taking something
, instead of just like taking abunch of pictures, which
sometimes makes it really hardif I'm somewhere for one time,

(18:24):
like I was in Tanzania earlierthis year and I was like I might
never come back here, you know.
So like I need to take allthese pictures.
But sometimes I just want tosit there and like enjoy things,
and I'm sure if I were to goback my images would be way
better, because I know the placenow, you know.
but it's hard for me sometimesif I don't have a why to like

(18:46):
take pictures or if I don't havelike the perfect lighting
moment to fall in love with it,I guess yeah yeah, I totally
agree.

Court (18:55):
I mean, I think that the the why connects beautifully to
the thing you said before, whereyou are trying to figure out
how to be useful withphotography, and I think that
that's like that's a bigquestion and a really important
question today, because it's somuch less of the how or the what

(19:16):
, because pretty much everybodyhas access, at various budgets,
to really good cameras, likereally good, even if it's just
on your smartphone, but what youend up doing with them, even if
you just, you know, catalogthem and make little smart
albums on your phone or youprint out little sticky cards

(19:37):
and decorate the fridge withthem, like what are you doing
with them?
And I think that that's a greatsegue into this idea of social
media because, as you said, ithas people that love it, people
that don't love it so much, andit gets, I think, a bit of
unfair criticism, because thereare ways to either use it badly

(19:57):
or to use it inappropriately orjust even neutral, where it
doesn't do anybody much good.
But there's this awesome end ofthe spectrum where you can be
very useful with it, and I feellike that's one of the lowest
hanging fruits with how to doconservation photography or how
to create movement or createpassion or create a love for

(20:21):
wildlife or nature, is just toshow it and, as cheesy as it
sounds, just create thatawareness.
So yeah, cheesy as it sounds,just create that awareness.
So yeah, I kind of want to diveinto that end of things.
So how do you?
You know you are the socialmedia maestra.
I did just learn maestra as aword.
There is a female version ofmaestro.
Yeah, really, I was like I wastyping maestro to someone.

(20:43):
I was like this doesn't soundright.
I bet you there's maestro.
Yes, confirmed, you're themaestro of social media in many
ways, but especially in NatHab,natural Habitat, adventures,

(21:03):
kind of crazy wildlife travelwhere you're going to the ends
of the earth to see some of thegreatest spectacles and seeing
it in pretty darn good qualityand style.
Simply put, like, where do yousee social media kind of fitting
into this realm?
You know it's importance, it'sintrigue, kind of its role and
obviously there's like themarketing end and feel free to
include that in the list, butmaybe even thinking kind of

(21:23):
beyond that, like because youclearly have passion towards the
conservation side, towards theawareness creation side.
Maybe it all mixes together,but yeah, where do you see its
importance and its intrigue andits role ultimately?

Dana (21:38):
Yeah, it's hard for me because I think if I had free
reign to do whatever I want withnot have social media, it would
probably be different than howit is.
But like, at the end of the day, like we do want our travelers
to come on trips, like talk alot about our trips, right, but
I think that what I see is likeI think I'm going to kind of

(22:05):
broaden the question a littlebit.

Court (22:06):
Sorry to jump in here, but I'm afraid I was too narrow
on the fact that, like its rolewithin, let's say, the travel
industry, I'm kind of thinkingmore of its role in society, in
the ecosystem of the worlditself.
But then kind of down to thislittle niche that we're all
involved in, which is kind oftravel, wildlife, nature

(22:28):
conservation, like how, where isthis role in that as well?

Dana (22:32):
so you mean like okay, can you package the question in
like a general sense?

Court (22:39):
yeah, like let's yeah, let's step back.
So like, why use social mediafor getting people to care about
things?
That's really general.
Where do you think its power is, its importance?
Does it work?
Do you get eyeballs on it?
Do you think it createsmovements that otherwise don't

(23:02):
get created?
That kind of direction ofthings, mm-hmm.

Dana (23:06):
Yeah.
So I think, with my backgroundin studying photography and
studying photo history and allthese kinds of different mediums
, that photography has beenserved to us over a long period
of time.

(23:27):
Right now, I think social mediais the way that we consume
images and video the most.
I think that right now, socialmedia is the way in which we
consume images and video themost, and maybe even news

(23:51):
sometimes.
And after studying photographyand photo history in the past,
that way has changed over timeand even with journalism, I mean
right now I think that socialmedia is probably the main place
that we consume images, video,news.

(24:15):
And after studying photography,that used to be newspapers or I
mean we used to probably watchTV, even a lot more and see
images on TV Right, and like Istudied some of these like

(24:35):
prolific images, like I thinkabout.
Like like I don't know if youremember Kevin Carter's image of
the struggling girl in Sudan.
I don't know if you rememberKevin Carter's image of the

(25:08):
struggling girl in Sudan, likeduring the Civil War there and
like how that image like hadpeople all over the world seeing
the anything they possiblycould for the war over there and
helping kids.
There was a backstory to thatand that image won a Pulitzer
Prize.
That was shared through, Ithink, the New York Times.
We would now see that image onsocial media right and like I

(25:28):
think about like wildlifephotographers, like Paul
Nicklin's starving polar bear, Ithink that was shared on social
media right and there's, Ithink, an image and a video of
that and pretty powerful stuff.
How much was that shared onsocial media and how did that
get people to start thinkingabout climate change?
So I just think the capabilitynow of you know, back when Kevin

(25:56):
Carter had his image out in theNew York Times, versus now Paul
Nicklin sharing his images onsocial media, versus now Paul
Nicklin sharing his images onsocial media the reach and the
way that we're digesting imagesis just changing so much.
And social media has thispowerful way of being able.
You can just click one buttonand share and there's another

(26:23):
button where you can justquickly donate or reach another
person to be able to getsomebody else to care really
quickly and it just has thisamazing magnitude of reach.
That, uh, is extremely powerful.
If it's used in the right way.

Court (26:36):
It can be used in, obviously, in wrong ways too but
it kind of democratizes theability to share viewpoint and
visions and art and documentarystyle photography in a way
that's like really never beenfeasible before.
Like you know, so fewphotographers have worked
directly with Nat Geo or can getpublished in the New York Times

(26:58):
, whereas virtually everybodywith a phone now can submit a
photo to this like kind ofonline newspaper forum,

(27:19):
absolutely, or the PulitzerPrize, like those things still
help.
But I guess there is thisavenue for people that are
starting with almost nothing toget that image out there or that
series of images along with alittle story, and create
awareness and passion andempathy for whatever the cause
might be, whether it's, you know, something to do with the

(27:41):
environment, whether it is moreof a humanitarian or cultural
thing.
I mean with that like yeah, howdo you feel about that kind of
contrast or that dichotomy ofsorts, where you have people
that might already have a reallystrong following with an easier
way to get eyeballs on theirphotography or an easier way to

(28:03):
share that with the masses,versus someone that's just
starting?
Like that's something that Ipersonally struggle with is,
like you know, how much do Iinvest in just the quality of
each post and photo versus doingsomething to get the following,
to then get more eyeballs inthe photos, to then have it go
to a wider audience and maybe,you know, meet that minimum

(28:25):
threshold for the algorithm.
It's something I constantlykind of grapple with and you
know there's all these greatkind of sayings and even books
about it, like you know, athousand true fans.
You know you're not trying toget the all things for all
people, you're just trying to besomething very specific to a
small cohort of highly dedicatedand highly interested people.
What are your thoughts on?
Like the two sides of that?

(28:45):
I'm going deep I think you canjust answer your own question,
but say it in your voice, it'llbe better.

Dana (28:54):
Yeah.
So I mean, you could have 20people who follow you and if
those 20 people really careabout what you're saying, those
20 people you might really havean impact on and they might end
up donating to the nonprofitthat you're talking about, or

(29:18):
joining you on a trip, or goingon a trip themselves to go and
see it, or talking with theircommunity about this thing that
you're talking about.
Or I think it's really aboutthe intention behind what you're
sharing more than it is aboutthe followers, because, like

(29:42):
gosh, gosh, you could post apretty picture and it could just
say, like some cheesy quote,you know, and like that's cool,
but like what's the purposebehind it and what impact is
that having on this place thatyou're going to?

(30:04):
Or you know, like what are yousort of?
If you want to be aconservation photographer, we're
saying, like what sort of roleare you playing then in in that?
So I think, like, when it comesto followers, I don't really
think that that matters and Ithink something that I say to
our field team all the time is,like, being genuine and talking

(30:28):
about your connection to theplace or your experience is
probably the most valuable andauthentic thing that you can
like express on social media,because we're all human and we
all want to connect in some way.

(30:49):
And if you think about socialmedia and in a way of a
community and building a littlecommunity on there, it's going
to make other people want toconnect with that place or that
animal as well.
So it doesn't really matter ifyou have 200,000 followers or 50

(31:11):
followers, because you couldhave 200,000 followers that
don't actually connect, but youcould have 50 that do, but you
could have 50 that do.
So that's my thinking behind.
It is like more about theintention and about being

(31:32):
authentic with what you'retalking about and speaking to.
And and that's probably goingto take a little bit more time.
And, uh, it's funny becausewhen I talk about myself and my,
my own own work, I've put somuch more time in the last like
year or two into into lifting upour field team and helping our
field team with all this that II don't even really do for

(31:54):
myself much anymore.
I have probably a backlog oflike four hard drives and audio
recordings of me talking tomyself with like potential
captions of stories, of thingsthat I've photographed that I've
just not released because Ijust I don't have time, but I'll
talk to all of you guys aboutit all day.

Court (32:14):
I like what you just said , though I want to.
I want to hear more.
What?
What is your process, what'syour system for doing audio
recordings?
When you think of stories, doyou think it is a kind of fine
tuned, or is it work for you?

Dana (32:25):
I'm like the most willy, nilly person ever.
So I know you know this, but Ilive in my camper van and I
spend probably all of my freetime like out, just like
photographing or going todifferent places to look for
wildlife.
And if I have some sort ofexperience or encounter, usually

(32:49):
it's around things that Iphotograph, but sometimes it'll
just be about something crazythat I experienced that day
while I'm out on the road.
Because I'm driving a lot, Iwill record myself talking.
I will record myself talkingbecause I don't journal but I do

(33:11):
audio recordings of myselftalking because it's faster and
I can do it while I'm driving.
So I'm like that crazy personwho talks to myself in their
phone and we'll just sort oflike either recap what I just
experienced or talk about my dayor whatever, and I'll get to
them eventually, I think.
Or maybe I'll like transcribethem and write them out and make

(33:31):
them sound more, you know,concise.

Court (33:36):
Sure.
So do you have a system forlike recalling them?
Like okay, so let's say you dothree or four audio recordings.
A couple of days go by, youhave an awesome or a crazy day
where you have 10 of them Like.
How do you sift through thoseand go back through?
Is there any way of likemarking them or knowing which
ones are the gold?

Dana (33:56):
I'll usually name them by like something crazy.
That was like a part of it.
So I was talking to my friend,one of our colleagues that we
work with recently, because hewas asking me about like I just
don't know how to caption things.
I don't know how to like hestruggles with captions for

(34:17):
things and I was talking to himabout this, this whole idea of
like being yourself, talkingabout your experience and being
able to connect with people, andI told him about this thing
that I do with like audiorecordings, and I gave him this
example of like me having acrazy encounter of like what you

(34:39):
probably won't keep this butlike me watching a cat get hit
by a car in front of me and likewatching it go through rigor
mortis and like then me havingto like pull over, cry and then
like record myself talking aboutman and like then, like me
having this sort of likeexistential crisis and then

(35:02):
recording it and then later thatday, me having the most like
beautiful, one of the most likebeautiful bighorn sheep
encounters I've ever experiencedin my life.
And like that sort of like, likewhat a difference like that can
be, like life and death, and itwas like.
So me like recording that and Ithink I cried like in both

(35:22):
moments.
Just a lot of crying happenswhen you live in a van and
that's going to become the titleof the episode.

Court (35:32):
By the way, a lot of crying happens in a van.

Dana (35:34):
An interview with Dana Campbell, it does.
There's nothing glamorous aboutliving in a van and whatever
they say on YouTube is wrong.
But yeah, like, and just so,eventually I will write some
probably like crazy caption,dissecting that day with like

(35:56):
some of my Big Horn Sheep photos.
But yeah, like, just thinkingabout like.
We all go through a lot ofemotions when we have these like
experiences out in the wild andI think sometimes, if you like,
just have a littledecompression.
I know a lot of people journaland I think that has like the

(36:17):
same sort of effect.
But for me, audio recordings Ilove it.
This is such a.

Court (36:23):
It's such a simple but such a good idea, because it is
really hard to bridge thatfeeling, or at least bridge like
your interpretation of it, fromjust seeing a photo, even five
days or a week after and yourcomputer being like, oh, I
remember seeing that beautifuliceberg with the sunburst behind
it, like that was really great.
But it's a whole different ballof wax from what you might be

(36:46):
able to achieve or say by likerecording it minutes after you
see that.
But you're gonna have adifferent tone, a different vibe
, a different outlook, probablybetter words, more words or at
least more meaningful words.

Dana (36:59):
That's really cool and you just use like your phone's
default microphone kind ofrecorder yeah, like that,
whatever that like voice audiothing is in your phone, I just
do that.

Court (37:08):
I love it.

Dana (37:08):
That's funny because sometimes you'll like really
laugh at yourself, like if youhear yourself later on too.

Court (37:13):
I'm like I am crazy well, yeah, then that's the other
kind of ancillary, reallyinteresting part is, like it's a
type of journaling.
So not only do you get greatfodder for stories and for
little blogs or social posts,but you also get to kind of
reflect back on a moment in yourlife that was pretty real at

(37:36):
the time.
But you know, memory is memory.
Like it's hard to put yourselfin that exact same shoes just by
a single photo.
But, photo and audio together.
I like it.

Dana (37:45):
Yeah.

Court (37:46):
That was really cool, okay.
So yeah, I want to stay on thesocial topic for the next
question but kind of segue intoa little bit of the strategy,
and I think everything you saidis probably strategy or like
some of the best strategy of youknow, not worrying about
getting the followers althoughwe all do because then we think
that that will catapult us intomore viewership and and more

(38:07):
opportunity and more ways to getmessages across.
But I totally understand andand everything I've ever read is
always the contrary of thatit's stick with just consistent
messaging, blah, blah, blah.
Don't worry about how manyfollowers, worry about the
quality and the authenticity.
But no matter how many times Iread that, I still get carried
away and think, man, how can Imake something go viral?

(38:29):
I just want something to goviral.
So, whether you want to talkabout that aspect of things or
just general strategy, you knowa lot.
You've learned a lot.
There are a lot of trends.
There are a lot of things thatused to be true that don't
really play a part.
There are a lot of things thatring true throughout the entire
realm and decade or two ofsocial media strategy.

(38:52):
What are some of the mostimportant lessons that ring true
, putting yourself in the mindof a listener here that wants to
.
You know, I don't want to saynecessarily grow their following
, because that might not be theanswer, but, like make an impact
on social media.
Do the right thing on socialmedia to get their images out
there and make their imagesuseful.

(39:15):
I mean, I think that's likeit's a great way to distill it,
like make your images useful.
So, yeah, most importantlessons that ring true, even
with updates and new features.
And then, yeah, if you know ofanything that's like kind of
developing or new or anything topay particular attention to,
I'd love to just get your yoursummary of that as you know it.

Dana (39:32):
Yeah, totally.
I think one of the main lessonsthat I've learned is that it
changes sometimes every week,like there is no strategy that
you can consistently roll withinfinitely.
A couple weeks ago we were onthe trajectory of reels do

(39:57):
amazing.
Let's do reels all the time.
And then this week it was oh,our reels are kind of doing
really bad.
Maybe carousel posts are nowall of a sudden doing better.
Is Instagram now pushingcarousel posts more?
They constantly change thingsand there's no sure way to say

(40:27):
this is going to be the strategythat you can like continue to
work with forever.
Social media is constantly atrial and error and like.
You can't share something andif it doesn't hit, get bummed,
and I think sometimes a lot ofpeople get discouraged because
they'll be like this is myfavorite image that I have

(40:49):
shared and it got three likesand now I'm bummed Like it could
be one of the best images everand the algorithm just doesn't
show it to anybody and it hasnothing to do with's like.
No sheer like motive foranything on it.
It's just all trial and error,and that's why I speak so much

(41:35):
to just being authentic and likeusing your own voice, because I
think that that is the mostinteresting thing and that's
something that's really hard forme to do representing a company
, because we are a company andnot a person.
So, like, how do I give aperson voice to a company to
make it interesting which is whyI try so much to give our

(41:57):
guides the voice of the companyor, like use it as, like a
window into the field, because Ithink that that's the most
interesting.
So, as an individual person,you're cool, you have your own
personality.
Like how do you just show thatand talk about your experiences,

(42:18):
and I think that that is what'sgonna really show and be
different than anybody else.
Like, anybody can share an imageof an elephant, and what's
going to be different is you andyour experience with that
animal or your perspective ofthat animal, because that's like

(42:43):
the only differentiator there,right?
So that's really my like take onsocial media.
I mean as far as like tips gofor, like sharing the types of
content, like if you're sharinga reel, this is really hard for

(43:05):
photographers to hear, but, likethe platform does not really
love professional produced videocontent, it likes cell phone
videos.
It will read the metadata andnot show professionally produced

(43:27):
video content as much.
So something that's like reallygreat to mix it with is like
sharing a carousel of some ofyour produced images and then
also sharing some cell phonevideo reels of like some behind
the scenes content, like whileyou're out in the field doing

(43:48):
that kind of thing, to bring inmore of that like real person
experience, because if you'renot Nat Geo or you're not BBC,
like anybody can share that kindof stuff and those professional
companies can share that kindof stuff and those like cell
phone videos can like bring amore human element into that,
and I think that the algorithmis also going to show that more.

Court (44:10):
Yeah, I've heard that too .
Just, you know, it kind ofspeaks to the authenticity of it
.
So, with what you were sayingabout kind of being yourself,
using yourself and your view andyour vision as a differentiator
, this might be a hard question,an impossible question, but,
like, how does one cultivatethat?
You know, like I hear it, and ifI'm putting myself in someone
else's shoes, like, yeah, I hearwhat you're saying, I know what

(44:32):
the words mean, but, like youknow, if I were just to start
riffing on a social media post,it's going to, you know, it's
going to depend on my mood thatday.
It's going to depend on whatimages are in front of me.
It's going to depend if, likeyou know all sorts of extraneous
factors, does that get bakedinto it?
Or do you try to come up with aconsistent voice?

(44:53):
Or like, yeah, I don't know.
You see I'm reaching forsomething here, but I'm
wondering, since you've donethis and you coach people on it
and you kind of come up withthat authenticity in a very
unique way on behalf of acompany, using dozens, if not
hundreds, of individual accountsand all that, yeah, how does
one walk up on that?

(45:14):
How does one train themselvesto do it?

Dana (45:16):
I mean you really don't have to reinvent the wheel.
In terms of content, there'stons of other.
When I share ideas with ourfield team, I'm literally
pulling videos that other peoplehave done and like that would
be cool to like use as areference and then just spin it,
put your own spin on it right.
So, let's say, if we're creatinga post and you want to share

(45:39):
some of your own images,something like a great start
could just be like you went downto Mexico, you're going to
photograph the Monarchs and youdid the thing we just talked
about of like you did an audiorecording, recording, a voice
recording of like your recap ofthe day.

(46:01):
You had this like amazingencounter that day, so you have
the memory of what you saw thatday.
Now you're going to make asocial media post about it.
You film yourself talking aboutthe experience that you had and
then show your images with it,like I think that sort of

(46:23):
encapsulates that like wholeexperience that I'm talking
about is like showing thatyou're a real person You're not
BBC showing your images and likethe amazing work that you're
doing and like talking about theexperience that you had and
plus bonus points here, talkingabout any sort of like

(46:44):
conservation involved and howother people can like get
involved in in that as well.
All of those things amazing,like great, so convenient
content for dana, like that'swhat she's looking for that's.

Court (46:57):
That's super helpful, and do you use the voice recording
as a voiceover?

Dana (47:02):
you could, if you really wanted to.
I guess like why, why not?
It's a good first start.
I'd say like I think, ideally,like showing your face and like
bringing a more like humanelement into it would be like
probably the the most ideal.
But I think you know, if you're, if you're like struggling to

(47:23):
film yourself on camera andyou're just not sure yet, like
try anything and like see whatworks, like I was saying before,
this social media is so muchabout like trial and error, so
why not try the voice recordingsand see how that goes too?

Court (47:36):
sure, but you were saying you use the voice recording
more of like sort like notes, sothen you kind of listen back to
it and then kind of okay yeah,yeah, yeah, got it yeah.
Okay, that is awesome.
That is a great takeawayhomework assignment for those
listening to try that morestorytelling element of things.
And there's so many differentways you can do that.
So, okay, we're going to getback knowing Dana here.

(47:57):
Things and there's so manydifferent ways you can do that.
So, okay, we're going to getback knowing Dana here.
Kind of some random questionshere.
But what is the lesson you'dlike to teach aspiring nature
and wildlife photographers?
Maybe something that you'velearned, maybe something that
you just think is reallyimportant?

Dana (48:14):
Yeah, I think that's a great question.
And like, yeah, I think that'sa great question.
And like, coming from the worldthat I've been in and I've
actually had some other youngaspiring women reach out to me
who are aspiring wildlifephotographers or sort of want to
do the job that I've realized alot is that wildlife

(48:38):
photography feels unattainablefor a lot of young people, and
it did for me for sure.
I mentioned that I grew up onLong Island.
I grew up in a place wherethere wasn't wildlife around.
People are not like bigadventurers.

(49:00):
The outdoors feels like veryforeign, but I grew up looking
at National Geographic magazines.
Never thought I would see apolar bear in my life, and I do
think for a lot of youngerpeople it feels like I would
love to do this.
It would be a dream for me todo this, but how could I get to

(49:20):
these faraway places?
You know, like it's just notsuper accessible for everybody,
and so I think that like alesson for me was like I was
super scrappy.
I was super scrappy.

(49:43):
I lived out of a tent for awhile and I got in my car and I
traveled on my own, as cheap asI possibly could, eating ramen,
and went to some of our amazingnational parks and sat with
wildlife.
Before I could even do that, Ifound the wildlife that was
closest to me and sat with deerand photographed deer.

(50:05):
I found foxes and photographedfoxes.
Like trying to find the wildlifethat is accessible to you and
that's closest to you was likethe first sort of step and build
your portfolio from there andthen expand as you can and I

(50:25):
think it can be a hobby for along time and then, like, if you
want to contribute toconservation, reach out to
nonprofits and see how you canhelp them.
I mean, I'm still doing that.
I know you and I are working onthis like Johnson Tract thing.

(50:45):
I feel like I'm like a fly onthe wall helping with all these
like big NGOs and lawyers whoare like trying to fight against
a mine, and then they're likewe need photos and videos and
I'm like, all right, I got allthese photos of bears.
Like here you go.
You know like it's amazing howlike sometimes these like really

(51:08):
big nonprofits like they can doall this amazing work but they
actually don't have images andvideos and you can contribute
and really, really help in somebig ways in conservation
communications and that's pretty, pretty awesome.
So I think that would be mylesson, would just be like do as

(51:32):
much as you can on your own andsometimes that's going to be
being scrappy and like justusing the access that you have
to whatever's in your backyardand building a portfolio from
there, because those like big,charismatic animals are not
always going to be superattainable and you can make a

(51:54):
lot of beautiful work with deeror elk or foxes and like that
can be really beautiful too andyou can do a lot with that and
grow your career from there.

Court (52:07):
So yeah, excellent, love that advice.
Yeah, very much agree.
It resonates with me.
I'm sure it resonates with manyothers out there and if it
doesn't figure out a way to makeit resonate with you, because
it's good advice, that is thepath.

Dana (52:21):
Yeah, I never.
I really like the work that I'mdoing now Like gosh.
I never in a million years didI think that I'd be going to
Tanzania or seeing a polar bear.
When I was in Churchill and Iwas like sitting up on the
Tundra Lodge with a polar bear.
When I was in Churchill and Iwas like sitting up on the
tundra lodge with a polar bear,like smelling the breath of a

(52:42):
polar bear, I was just cryingbecause I was like this is only
existed in a magazine for me.
Like never in a million yearsdid I think that I would get to
see a polar bear.
I grew up on Long Island.
We have squirrels like that,you know.
It's just, yeah, crazy, crazy.

(53:05):
So super grateful.

Court (53:08):
Yeah, yeah, hard work, a little bit of risk,
bootstrapping it, chasing yourpassions and your dreams going
big.
I think that's true for so manythings.
So, yeah, well said, okay.
So, as we round out thediscussion, I want to switch to
gear.
Now, knowing you and hearingsome of the things you said, I

(53:29):
don't want to hear about theAbraham Lincoln camp.
No, I'm kidding.
Large format, no, I would loveto hear that if you're still
using it.
But no, I what I mean is I havea sense that you probably are
not super nerdy about gear likeI am or like many other people
are, but maybe you're not, maybeyou're gonna, or maybe you are,
maybe you're gonna surprise me,but nevertheless, I know you

(53:51):
have gear, you got good gear,and it'll be interesting to hear
what your take on it is.
So, yeah, tell me what you'reshooting on right now and what
is like.
Well, you can answer theseseparately, but like, what is
your your favorite lens?

Dana (54:05):
yeah, so I have a sony a7r5 is my main still camera,
and then I also have a Sony FX3,which is my video camera,
because I do both film and still.
A lot of that is for work.
And then my big wildlife lensis 200 to 600, which I do shoot

(54:34):
a lot out of my van window,depending on where I am.
So that is like an amazing lensfor that, and if I'm somewhere
where I don't have to deal withas much weight restrictions or
can pack a little bit more, Ireally do love that lens.
My other wildlife lens that Ilove is a 100-400.

(54:56):
My other wildlife lens that Ilove is a 100-400.
And then, gosh, I feel likeprobably the 70-200 is like one
that I bring with me on justlike every trip.

Court (55:09):
I'm the same way.
It's like it's so gratuitous,it's the most limited range,
it's so medium in every way it'slike it's not wide, it's not
telephoto, really.
Yeah, but it's so medium inevery way it's like it's not
wide, it's not telephoto reallyyeah, but it's it's the best
lens when you can use it, yeah.
Well, so tell me oh, yeah, goahead oh and.

Dana (55:28):
And then like, honestly, like, for a lot of the video
stuff that I've been shooting,I've been using a 24 to 70 a lot
and I was just up in the GreatBear Rainforest so dark, like
darkest place I've ever.
Have you been there?

Court (55:44):
no, have not.

Dana (55:45):
Oh, I know darkest place I've ever photographed, like no
sun the whole time, so likereally bumping up the ISO so
much and I was using the 24 to70 a lot and it was just like my
camera did great, like I wasvery impressed with the Sony,

(56:07):
but it was like I use that lensa lot for shooting video and I
really, really liked having thatone on that trip.
So those I have some otherlenses, but I'd say like those
are the ones that I'm probablyusing the most.

(56:28):
I also have this little SonyRX1.
That's just my like pocketcamera.
Familiar I like it because itfeels like a film camera.
It's a little older, I've hadit for quite a while but like,
yeah, it's like my like digitalfilm camera.

Court (56:49):
Yeah those look cool.
I've been tempted myselfbecause they're kind of there's
like a point and shoot right.

Dana (56:54):
Yeah.
Yeah, but they got a little like20, 24 to 120 kind of
equivalent yeah, yeah, that'sgreat, yeah, and then I do still
shoot film sometimes too, sothat's sort of my like I said.
I do have other lenses that Iuse sometimes, but those are
sort of my mains that I findmyself grabbing the most when

(57:18):
I'm going out on a trip.
Luckily for me, a lot of mytraveling is from my van, so I
have access to all of my lensesa lot of the time, which is
pretty great For social mediastuff.
I also have a GoPro that I willuse a decent amount.
I'm starting to use that moreand more and I like it.

(57:39):
And my phone how?

Court (57:41):
hot.
Well, let me ask you betweenthe 200 to 600 and you mentioned
the 100 to 400, I find that tobe interesting that you
mentioned both those.
Why would you use the 100 to400 versus the 200 to 600?
I'm just.
I mean you personally, likewhat's in it for you between
those two.

Dana (58:01):
It depends on the activity that I'm doing.
If I'm hiking, I'm taking the100 to 400.

Court (58:07):
It's true that 200 to 600 is a beast.

Dana (58:09):
Yeah, but interestingly enough I've found that, like
when I've been out in Alaskawith the bears, I've really
wanted to use 600 millimeters alot, like I have wanted that
reach quite a bit more when Iwas in Lake Clark than Katmai,

(58:32):
probably just because I thinkthe bears were at like a little
bit more of a distance thereright yeah, and I'm like so, not
a tripod person either.
So it's really hard for mebecause I'm not a big person,
I'm not very muscular, so likereally trying to hold up 600
millimeters steady, steady, it'snot super fun.

(58:55):
But big lens, yeah, but I Ibring my tripod and I'll like
rest it on there, but you know,when bear bears or you know
whatever is like moving around,a lot like being restricted to a
tripod is tough it really canbe tough sometimes.

Court (59:10):
Yeah, I'm not.
I'm not the tripod guy a lot ofpeople are, but I avoid them
wherever possible.
Just too limiting.

Dana (59:19):
But that's like I think it depends.
It's like very situational.
I like having both of thoselenses.
There's a little while where Iwas like, do I need both of
these?
But I like having the 100 to400.
When I'm hiking I hike so much.
Like having the 100 to 400 whenI'm hiking, I hike so much and

(59:42):
like, depending on where I am,if I have that 100 to 400 and
I'm out and I see a moose or youknow, a mountain goat or
something like, it's just niceto have that lens.
I would not want to be hikingwith my 200 to 600.
So yeah, but the 200 to 600 isdefinitely more like from a
safari vehicle, from my van,from like if I'm sort of like

(01:00:02):
more stable sitting on a bucketor in a vehicle or something.
So that's the difference for meof when I'm using those.

Court (01:00:12):
Okay, so final question here A piece of gear for nature
photography that is surprisinglyhelpful but people may not
think about.

Dana (01:00:20):
Huh.
Doesn't even have to be a pieceof actual camera gear, but just
something that goes towardsnature photography that time in
the last two years in like verywet places is like truly
waterproof equipment for yourlike a truly waterproof backpack

(01:00:47):
if you're going to be in placeswhere it rains, and like a
truly waterproof rain cover foryour camera.
And I guess this is like verysubjective to like where you are
.
If you're going to be in Africaduring the not rainy season,
then like it doesn't matter.

(01:01:08):
I'm up in Alaska a lot Like Isaid, I was just up in the Great
Bear Rainforest like so much ofmy stuff that claimed to be
waterproof not waterproof.
So much of my stuff is likesoaked through and I'm like at
this point where I'm like I needto be able to swim with my gear

(01:01:28):
to like make this.
And I just got this newbackpack that is like amazing
and fits me well I think alsosecond to that like waterproof
and like fits you well, like anamazing backpack that really

(01:01:49):
fits you well and is like goodfor your gear.
I know that so much of our teamis like peak design.
That peak design backpack killsme.
It is so like heavy on my backand like just a shout out to our
sponsors of this episode.
Peak design, kidding, I'mkidding okay, if peak design

(01:02:12):
wants to work with a small womanand like help me find something
that fits my back, I'll do it.
I'll work with you guys.
I get made fun of on every tripI go on with that backpack and
they're like cool, turtle, shell, dana, because it's bigger than

(01:02:33):
me, it's like takes up my wholebody and it's super heavy and
like just kind of kills my back.
And on this last trip I went onit was essentially a
backpacking backpack.
It had a strap here, it had astrap on my waist and was like
is this the ortlieb, the ortliebbackpack?

Court (01:02:55):
okay?

Dana (01:02:55):
I felt like a million bucks.

Court (01:02:57):
So it also fits good.
That's good to know, because Iknow that they're ultra
waterproof, but it also fitsgood, okay.

Dana (01:03:03):
Yes, and I just think a lot of equipment is not built
for smaller women necessarily,and it's sometimes hard to find.
It's why I love Sony equipmentso much is that it's smaller.

(01:03:23):
I used to shoot on Nikon backin the day and my hands would
hurt all the time holding thislike big camera in my hands,
because I don't have huge hands,and now I have like a much
smaller camera that fits myhands a lot better and I feel
like sometimes people don'tthink into that kind of stuff,
but it makes a really bigdifference and so finding

(01:03:45):
equipment that like fits youreally well when you're out on a
trip makes a really bigdifference.
So, whether that's like rentinggear to test it out I don't
know if you can like always rentbackpacks and stuff, but I kind
of wish that I could have liketested out a bunch of backpacks

(01:04:06):
Would love to be a backpacktester.

Court (01:04:09):
Right.

Dana (01:04:10):
But now I'm kind of at this point where I'm like I know
that that Ortlieb backpack is,like meant for waterproof, but
I'm like I would use this allthe time just because of how
comfortable it is.

Court (01:04:21):
Really Well, that's great to know.
Yeah, I was considering thatone myself, so cool to hear the
positive feedback.

Dana (01:04:29):
Yeah.

Court (01:04:30):
Well, awesome Dana.
Thank you so much for all thewords of wisdom, the
storytelling, the advice, thethoughts.
This is great.
I really appreciate it.
Where can people find you ifthey want to learn more?

Dana (01:04:42):
I'm doing my best to keep up with my own Instagram.
So I'm on Instagram at DanaCama, d-a-n-a, c-a-m-a, and I
have a website that's the samedanakamacom, and yeah.

Court (01:05:00):
Cool.
Well, folks go check it out,Dana, thank you.

Dana (01:05:03):
Thanks so much, court, this was fun.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Dateline NBC

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Social Media Strategies for Photographers to Amplify Conservation Efforts with Dana Cama

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Dateline NBC

All Episodes

Social Media Strategies for Photographers to Amplify Conservation Efforts with Dana Cama

Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club