Today we're talking with Rich--a phenomenal photographer, African safari guide, and just great person all-around. Having had a long, yet still ascending guiding career, he's got a lot of sage advice for seasoned photographers and budding photographers alike.
We go over a lot, and there is so much to take away from this conversation. We get some excellent thoughts on storytelling in photography, discuss his ambassadorship with Sony, his favorite lenses for various photo safaris, and even a bit on the role of social media and other media in conservation photography.
We talk about a few key pieces of gear in today's episode and you can learn more about each of them, and purchase them if you wish, at the links below.
Sony RX10 IV - All Purpose Camera
Rich's Favorite Safari Lens - 400mm f/2.8 - Canon - Nikon - Sony
Rich's Favorite Gorilla Lens - 70-200 f/2.8 - Canon - Nikon - Sony
If you'd like to check out more from Rich, you can find him at the various links below.
Rich's Instagram - @richard.degouveia
Rich's TikTok - @richard.degouveia
Rich's Website - Safari Architects
Court's Portfolio
Court's YouTube Channel
- Check out Court’s photography and conservation work: CourtWhelan.com
- Follow Court Whelan (@courtwhelan) on YouTube for more photography tips
- Sign up for Court's conservation, travel and photography blog at www.courtwhelan.com
- View Court's recommended camera gear
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Court (00:00):
My guest today is Rich De Gouveia, a phenomenal wildlife
photographer who specializes inAfrican safaris and beyond
Africa.
I say that because he's alsosupremely adept in experience in
photographing far-flung placeslike Madagascar, which is
technically Africa but quitedifferent, but also much more
familiar places on the Africancontinent, but still atypical
(00:23):
safaris like viewing mountaingorillas of Uganda and Rwanda.
The stuff we cover in thisepisode is so helpful and
includes things like Rich'sapproach to storytelling in his
photography, his favorite lensesfor African safaris and gorilla
trekking two very differentendeavors his Sony
Ambassadorship and, of course,his impressive social media
presence, which he greatly usesfor conservation storytelling.
(00:45):
We're lucky to have Rich hereand I'm excited to welcome him.
Rich, welcome to the podcast.
Thank you so much for joiningme today.
Richard (00:53):
Thanks so much, Court.
Thanks for having me today.
I'm really excited to be on theshow and chatting with you.
Court (00:58):
Rich, you have an extraordinary CV for lack of a
better word resume of the placesyou guide, the things you get
into, the photographs you haveaccess to and really make for
yourself.
It's an incredible guidingcareer that you've assembled and
I follow along closely, and, ofcourse, later in the podcast
(01:19):
we'll talk about how others canfollow you a little bit more
closely too.
But one of the questions I haveright off the bat is having to
do with the unique style of anAfrican safari.
The vast majority of your quoteunquote classic African safaris
are vehicle based or vehiclesupported, however you want to
(01:40):
put it, and so my question iskind of twofold here.
So you have obviously uniqueaccess to wildlife vehicles when
you're photographing in Africa.
What have you learned over theyears about how to best
photograph from vehicles?
And then the second part of thatis what of those experiences do
(02:02):
you translate to your on theground work to make to perhaps
make it even better?
And the reason I say all thisjust as background rich guys
everything from your classicmainland East and Southern
African safaris, but also someof the really cool outside the
box stuff like gorilla trackingand Madagascar, and I'm sure
we're going to hear and learnabout other places too.
But yeah, to boil it down, whathave you learned, what are some
(02:26):
tips, what are some thingsyou've internalized about
photographing from vehicles tomake the most of it?
And how do you take that andsay you know what?
What of those lessons mightmake my on the ground stuff even
better, If that even exists?
I'm kind of challenging youthere to see if there is a
bridge that maybe you've learned, or at least appreciate the
ability to say pivot easilyaround an animal when you're on
(02:48):
the ground on foot.
But let's start off with yourthoughts and ideas, what you've
learned over the years and howto best shoot from vehicles.
Richard (02:56):
So, again, the vehicle based safari stuff is is really
fascinating because of thesituation that's gone on over
years and years and a lot of theplaces that we get to travel to
and based on where you get togo National Parks versus private
reserves will change all ofthat aspect, because in private
(03:17):
reserves we get to go off road,get a bit closer.
The animals are accustomed togetting you closer, but
understanding the animalsbehavior and and giving it a
sense of space, so many guidesand so many people are focused
on trying to get as close aspossible to that animal and
(03:39):
99.9% of the time that is notthe best photo you're going to
get is being close, because thecloser you get to something,
especially out of a vehicle, youhave this downward angle where
you're looking down on somethingand you lose the background.
Boca, you lose the impact oftrying to get somebody to eye
(03:59):
level so that they feel morecomfortable around those things.
You know there's so manyaspects to it.
So I love encouraging our localguides because as a private
guide I'm on the back with the,with the guests is encouraging
and creating a relationship withthe local guide to say, ok,
cool, we have long lenses, let'sstay back.
(04:22):
Let's give the animal a bit oftime and space to feel
comfortable with our presence soit doesn't feel like we're just
rushing in and creating thisdiscomfort within the animal.
So you start from further backand you start getting landscape
photos, animal in situ, animalwith the environment and really
(04:43):
creating an image, becauseanyone can get a portrait image
inside a zoo, you just have tozoom in.
But in a while there you wantto show that animal in its space
.
That's what makes it sobeautiful.
It's what makes it makes usable to go back to the same
parks to see the same animals,because they're in a different
(05:03):
place, in a different setting,in different light each and
every time.
So that, for one, is one bigthing.
And understanding that itbecomes vehicle based.
We're always looking at howwe're going to take the next
step, because if an animal islying in one spot, that's not
(05:25):
often what we're going to getthe magical photo from.
The magical photo comes fromprediction, from understanding
animal behavior, for being readyfor that next moment and saying
, ok, cool, it's come from thattree to that tree.
The likelihood is it's going togo to that next one and mark
(05:47):
territory there.
So let's go wait there.
Let's not get it while it'ssleeping, let's go wait in this
spot.
We've got these photos thatgive us a general idea of where
we've been.
But now we need to make aphotograph and in order to do
that, you have to place yourselfand you go, set yourself up in
the next location, ready to takethat shot, having the ability
(06:10):
to have a few seconds to getyour shutter speeds right, to
get your aperture right, tounderstand what the background
is going to be behind thatanimal.
And sometimes we hit it and itcomes up perfectly.
70% of the time we miss itbecause that's the nature of
prediction we don't know whatthe animal is going to do next.
And then that translates a lotto when you're not in a vehicle
(06:36):
and you have more ability tomove around, say something like
a Lima or a gorilla, where we alittle bit more controlled in
how we move around.
But I would take guests and say, okay, cool, let's go wait here
, because the silverback hasmoved here, so that more than
likely the females are gonnafollow along.
(06:56):
This way, we'll get them intothose positions and then taking
the advantage of, while you'reon foot, to get as low as
possible so that you can shootup and make a big gorilla look
even bigger, or get into aposition where you're shooting
almost at eye level with a Limathat's in a tree, rather than
(07:17):
shooting from the bottom up andseeing just a butthole, which is
not gonna give you the greatestphoto in the world, Ha ha such
sage advice, especially thatlast part.
Court (07:30):
That's great.
You just shared like three orfour awesome gems there.
I kind of wanted torecapitulate a little bit of
that One.
You started talking about theangle, right, so a vehicle,
that's the thing is, when you'rein a vehicle and it doesn't
matter if you're in Africa orYellowstone or the Arctic
anywhere when you are out ofnecessity need to be above the
(07:53):
ground, just you and theaudience start thinking about
the angle when an animal is onthe ground and as you get closer
think back to like 10th gradetrigonometry that angle gets
more obtuse.
It actually increases, suchthat the view is photographing
further and further down towardsthe animal and, like Rich said,
(08:15):
you lose that beautifulbackground blur.
You lose some of the essence ofthe photography that you're
trying to get with a really coollandscape around the animal.
So that's huge, the idea ofstaying a little bit further
away, using telephoto power toyour advantage and seeing what
happens.
And that's the next part, and Ilove this because it really
(08:37):
speaks to what we try to do, as,in some cases, sort of like
wildlife experts and biologists.
First and I mean I don't wantto put words in your mouth, but
the way I look at myself, as I'mkind of a biologist first and
photographer second, even thoughthey grew very parallel to one
another.
But knowing the wildlifebehavior is such an awesome
(08:57):
thing as a photo guide and it'ssomething that I think we have
as a super big superpower there.
And then, of course, talkingabout this wildlife and
landscape shot right, I mean,you took the words out of my
mouth.
That's like exactly what Ipreach all day long is that if
you get that classic wildlifeportrait and you can't tell
where it's at, it could be in azoo, it could be anywhere.
(09:19):
So super, super good advicethere.
So the first thing you sharedabout yeah, we have a telephoto,
we had the lens.
Let's stay a little bit furtherback.
I want to talk about gear alittle bit there.
So what if we're talking abouta good beefy telephoto that
allows you to stay a little bitaway, makes that angle a little
more acute, that makes it seemas if perhaps you're at eye
(09:44):
level, maybe literally eye level, but at least it makes it seem
close to eye level to a lion, toa wild dog, to what have you?
What talk to me about some ofthe lenses that you think are
primo for African wildlifesafaris.
I know this can be a verysubjective, contentious issue,
but I'm sure you have your ownopinions and let's hear.
Maybe, if you don't have a tiptop favorite, you know a list of
(10:07):
your favorites.
Richard (10:10):
So I love that.
Corten, the idea of lens andequipment choices, especially
lens choice, is certain integralpart to capturing an image,
especially if you do this overand over, because every time you
change a lens you change theperspective from which you're
(10:32):
photographing, so yourphotographs completely change
when you use a different lens,depending on where we are, will
give us different things.
If I'm saying the Saabi Sands,I could get away with a 300 mil
lens, no problems, because youget so close to the animals and
it's quite dense in terms of itsfoliage and vegetation, so that
(10:53):
limits us in getting far enoughaway With something.
Some way like the Serengeti.
A 600 mil would work so muchbetter because you've got these
wide open planes that allow youto see further and drop that
angle even more.
But the way I like to seephotography and the lens choices
(11:14):
based on destination and basedon your capacity to utilize that
.
There are so many great productsout there.
I love my 400 2.8.
And the reason why I bought the400 2.8 is because I can put a
1.4 times converter on it when Igo to the Serengeti and I've
(11:36):
then effectively got almost 600f4.
Or when I'm in the Saabi Sandsor in Botswana and I don't need
that sort of length.
I take that often.
I've got huge amounts of lightand great bokeh, but it's a huge
lens and on its own it'sweighing almost four pounds, so
you need to be physically fit tobe able to carry that.
(11:59):
Without that ability to do that, it's all good to have the gear
, but no idea, that's not gonnaget you anywhere.
In that case.
Some of these bridge camerasare doing incredible work in
terms of that.
I love the Sony RX10 Mark IVand I'm waiting desperately for
the Mark V to come out because Ithink it is such a powerful
(12:21):
camera.
It goes all the way to 600 f4.
It's in a tiny body that anyonecan handhold, and that
effective distance and thatbeautiful f4 gives us a little
bit of bokeh.
It's got great image quality.
So, depending on where you areon that scale, it's always a
good thing to think of.
(12:41):
And if you're spending the moneythat some of these safaris cost
, if you do have gear say you'retraveling with 100, 400,
because that's the lens you'vegot, and you're spending 20,000,
30,000 on a trip isn't it worthgoing out if you have the
capacity to then rent a 600 f4because you're going to the
(13:02):
Serengeti.
You don't have to go spend 10grand on buying one.
You can spend a grand or two onrenting one for that time and
ensuring that the people you'retraveling with have the ability
to bean bags or the gimbal headsfor you to be able to control
that and get the most out of alens like that.
(13:23):
You can still bring your 100,400 should it not work, but you
can at least buffer yourself andreally extend yourself each
time you go out and then you goto the gorillas and you say,
cool, I'm gonna rent a 70 to 200or a 135, 1.8, just as
something completely different.
You know how can you push yourcreativity by taking these
(13:47):
lenses on.
Court (13:49):
Love that.
Awesome, awesome advice.
And for those that didn't get achance to write that down, the
Sony RX10 Mark IV.
I'm gonna echo Rich's thoughtsthere.
I've had numerous guests inAfrica and Borneo and Alaska,
you name it.
Bring this camera and it isawesome.
It's really impressive.
(14:10):
You don't have to change lenses.
It's yeah, it's a 24 to 600.
I actually didn't know it was F4at 600, which is stunning.
That in itself makes me think,geez, maybe I should look
further into this one, but it'sreally cool.
It's really one of a kind.
It's been on this Mark IVversion, which Mark IV just
means like the fourth iterationof it for years now, which is
(14:32):
anomalous for the camera world.
So I mean, I'm personallyexpecting the Mark V any day now
.
Rich may know more about thatthan I would.
We'll kind of get to his Sonyconnections here, maybe a little
bit.
But yeah, super cool camerathere.
And then I love to hear youtalk about the 400 2.8.
It's funny.
I rarely see that out in thefield.
(14:54):
I rarely see it on Instagram.
I don't hear much about it.
I oftentimes see the 500 F4,the 600 F4, the 300 2.8, but
long, long time that has beenlike my dream lens.
I don't own it, but if I wereto be in a Safari type setting,
(15:14):
as much as Rich would, I wouldsay it's a worthy investment,
very worthy.
So you love that.
Have 400 2.8, yeah like becauseyou can instantly pop on a
moderate teleconverter andbasically get to 600.
So that's super cool.
I think a lot of people whenthey do have the point in their
photo career or their travelcareer and or the means to do it
(15:36):
, it's oftentimes a choicebetween those big primes, right,
the 300 2.8, the 400 2.8, the500 F4, the 600 F4.
And so you're thinking the 4002.8 is your choice.
They're all relatively similarweights, the 300's notably less,
but more or less big oldbazookas, lots of telephoto
(15:57):
power, super big apertures orawesome low light and bokeh.
400 2.8 is your choice.
Yeah, Rich.
Richard (16:05):
Yeah, I just like it because of those variances,
because I can effectively, likeI said, 1.4 teleconverter, two
times teleconverter, and thenI'm at 800 F5.6.
You've got all this movement.
It's also that tiny bit lighterand tiny bit smaller than the
600.
And that size difference.
(16:25):
When I'm traveling and puttingstuff in a bag, I can carry my
400 2.8 in my Peak Design travelbag and walk with it on the
plane, and that makes all thedifference too, to be able to
carry it on and keep it with you.
You don't wanna have to carrythe clunky bag that comes along
with it.
(16:46):
The only thing that comes with aprime, the challenge that comes
with a prime is understandinghow much it's gonna change your
photography, because you cannotzoom, so your creativity when
you have a 100 to 400, 200 to600 doesn't matter the variable
(17:06):
lens that you have, but beingable to move back and forth
makes a big difference.
In this case you actually haveto move the vehicle back in
order to get that space, oryou're that close that you're
now shooting portraits or moreartistic stuff to be able to
work with that.
And in order to balance thatout, I always have two bodies,
(17:28):
so I'll have a second body witha 70 to 200.
In case I need to, I'm tooclose or I'm outside of the
range of that lens, then I canchange and be able to shoot
something wider and still havethe effective use of it.
But that all comes in, and thenwe talk about the Sony again
and bring back the bridge camera, even the cannons that have
these same bridge features thathave long lenses.
(17:50):
But when you want to, you canzoom out and get to a point
that's far more advantageous toget and make a photograph, make
something pretty, Love it.
Court (18:00):
Yeah, what a killer combo 4028 and 70 to 208.
Well, you heard it from Rich.
That is his go-to safari combo.
I couldn't agree more.
That is an awesome setup.
Then you mentioned a 1.4extender.
I haven't spoken a lot aboutextenders on this podcast.
I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Yay, nay, obviously you're insupport of them.
(18:21):
Are they ubiquitous, like, doyou use them all the time?
Are there certain cases?
What are your thoughts?
Richard (18:27):
So teleconverters are interesting.
They've been a dividing factorfor years, years and years and
years.
I think the first iterations ofthem were always an extra piece
of glass that suffered an imagesomewhat and people were going
well, is it really worth puttingit on?
A lot of the times now eventhat question comes in because
(18:49):
we have these high megapixelcameras that okay, if I'm not
that close, I can just crop inand I'm still at 30 megapixels
or 24 megapixels.
But I've found that the newgenerations of these
teleconverters are incrediblysharp.
There's almost zero loss inimage quality across the way,
(19:10):
especially with the mirrorlessiterations of it.
I think with the mirroredversions when we were DSLR there
were definite cons to it, butnow it makes sense the only
thing that really has to bethought of.
And it works well on a 2.8, butit doesn't work well on a 100,
400, or 5.6.
(19:32):
Because the moment you dropthat on, you're not just getting
closer but you're shutting thataperture down.
And light is such a key thingin wildlife photography.
We're always trying to get asmuch light as fast as shutter
speed to freeze the action, tobe in control of that situation,
and the moment you put thatconverter on, you are stifling
(19:55):
that ability to get more light.
So it is a balance.
It's a complete balance.
That's why I find with 400, 2.8, it works beautifully.
100, 400, it doesn't even packin my bag.
I don't even bring it closebecause by the time I get there
I'm at f9 and I'm out of the gap.
Court (20:14):
Yeah, back in the day when I used to shoot a lot with
the 7200, 208, I thought youknow this might be the best kind
of wildlife combo Get a 7200and a two times converter and
that way I can get a 400 f5, 6.
I dropped that like a bad habit.
It was so soft, like I might aswell just shoot with the 7200
(20:34):
and crop in.
It was so disappointing.
But I love to hear what you sayabout the new muralist
iterations.
That gives me a lot of hope.
And, of course, for those inthe audience, anytime you use a
teleconverter or tele extendertomato tomato on a prime lens
you're in a way, way bettershape Zoom lenses.
Just they don't really behavevery well but teleconverters.
(20:55):
So I continue on this lens andgear thing.
I remember seeing a photo fromyou, rich.
Oh, I see a lot of photos fromyou, but a particular one of
chimpanzee.
I'm pretty sure it was inKabali, uganda, and I was
looking at like your shotsettings and I saw you're
shooting with a 135 1.8 lens andI'm like, what is this guy
(21:17):
doing?
He's using a weddingphotographer lens on an epic
chimp track.
Of course the photo is stunning.
Talk to me about that, like 1351.8.
Is that a routine lens youbring with you just because of
how unique it is, or what'swhat's going on there?
Richard (21:34):
So, again, I'd mentioned a little bit earlier
that every time you go out witha new lens, you're allowing a
new perspective, a different wayto view the world.
And the thought was well, I'mshooting our close cousins and
this is a portrait lens, so whycan't they be a portrait?
(21:56):
On top of the fact that it isso dark in the jungles that
trying to shoot over 200th of asecond and you're fighting.
So having a 1.8 is incrediblyadvantageous, but shooting with
that lens and its prime one.
And I'd shot for years with the70 to 200.
(22:16):
So I had the same images overand over again, each time still
the same gorilla or samechimpanzee with the same
perspective, and the moment Iput a new lens on, it changed
everything.
So with my ambassadorship withSony, I got to test different
things out.
So it was a case of I'm in theprime seats to be able to say,
(22:40):
oh, I'd like to test that oneout, can I have that for a week
while I go to the gorillas andchimps and have a shoot with
that and I loved it, I loved it,I loved it.
I haven't put it permanently inmy bag because it's an
expensive lens, but it's a niceone to toy around with, and I
don't think it's the last timeI'll go.
(23:00):
My next one I actually want tofiddle around with is a 50mm
f1.2.
Again very prime, veryportrait-based low light,
shallow depth of field, goodbokeh, and see what I get out of
the the gorillas and chimps.
(23:20):
With that.
Again, slightly wider, createmore jungle shots, but with the
shallow depth of field and speedto be able to freeze the action
.
So it's always a considerationhow can I change what's going in
front of my camera to changethe perspective of what my view
is going to see when they lookat the photo on Instagram or on
(23:41):
any form of media?
Court (23:42):
Heck.
Yeah, I love it and it was astunning photo.
We'll provide links to hisInstagram where you can see that
photo and many others.
Yeah, it was just.
It was stunning, it was.
It was a portrait.
And the cool thing is, you know,we were kind of dogging some of
the wildlife portraits on theSerengeti and whatnot.
When you're in that denseforest of Kabali, there is no
(24:04):
mistaking you were in the legitjungle.
I mean, there's vegetation andleaves everywhere.
You can't mistake that.
And that's also not to say.
You know, wildlife portraitsare fantastic wherever you go.
We're really talking aboutthinking outside the box here.
But that lens super awesome.
Love to hear it.
Okay, so another, another bigplace, and then, you know, this
will sort of be our last littleforay on lenses and gear.
(24:26):
But gorilla trekking what'syour go-to lens for gorilla
trekking?
What do you?
What do you have on your?
Your camera, as you, you know,drop your bags off with the,
with the trackers, and you headinto that last hundred yards.
You're stepping over vines.
You know, you got thatanticipation, no matter if it's
the hundred time you've done it.
You've got a camera, a lens onand maybe a lens in your pocket.
(24:47):
What do you have?
Richard (24:49):
So my go-to is a 70 to 200, 2.8 mm, that variability of
being able to go a little bitwider and have the portrait
ability of the 200 and get a bitcloser.
Without a doubt that lens wasit was almost built to go shoot
primates, but in that samesetting the lenses are so
(25:14):
important, but how you strapthem to you is so important too.
And having a good strap to beable to put that camera around
you and tuck it behind you.
Because you're in a forestenvironment, you're walking
between things, like you'resaying, you're stepping over
vines, we're in windy andpenetrable forest they didn't
call it in penetrable fornothing and I think the the way
(25:38):
you go in and the preparationthat you have, not just with how
you're gonna shoot but howyou're gonna carry, I very often
would take a second body.
Or I will take one lens and onebody and focus one track just
in one dimension, and then thesecond track.
(25:58):
I may then go okay, cool, I'mgoing to take the 16 to 35 mm
and shoot uber wide and wait forgorillas who may walk past me
to get down low.
Shoot up creates a differentatmosphere again, just changing
the perspective and pushingmyself.
For a first time at 70 to 200straight away.
(26:20):
If you're doing four tracks,then I'd say, okay, one of them,
be out there, throw it all outthere, leave your 70 to 200
behind, take a lens that's gonnachallenge you creatively and
throw yourself in the in in thatpot and see where it comes out.
And but yeah, it's a.
It's a very fascinating choiceof stuff.
(26:42):
Like I said, the 50mm is now mynext one.
I want to play with the 135mmI've used before.
I've taken a 400mm in there,which was very interesting, but
a lot to carry and the porterslook at you funny when you bring
them a bag that weighs 10pounds to then carry Gorilla
eyelashes.
Court (27:00):
Yes, exactly, that's, that's fantastic.
Are you ever using your, youriPhone, your smartphone, when
you're in there?
Richard (27:08):
All the time, all the time.
Video, the, the, the iPhonesoffer so much, or the phone
photography is so spectacular atthe moment.
It gives you the ability tovideo and the video quality on
them is spectacular.
For those close-up situationsor if I need to jump to a wide
angle, I can quickly drop inthere, and I'm often taking
(27:29):
photos of guests with the, withthe animals, with the, with the
phones, so that I can sharethose memories with them too,
because very often, as aphotographer, we're caught in a
position where we are taking thephotographs and we have none of
ourselves doing what beingthere.
So I love, I love capturingpeople and the situation so that
(27:53):
they, too, have these memoriesto take back with them and just
enjoy the situation.
Court (27:59):
So I want to zoom out here.
I guess pun intended there orwe'll.
We'll go to the 30,000 footlevel here and talk.
I want to talk a little bitabout your photo style.
I you know, the more I seephotographers, other
photographers, the more I'mseeing distinct styles, very
specific characteristics.
We have some folks that do alot of editing.
(28:21):
We have some folks that aregoing more for a purist or or
very, in the moment, minimalediting style, and this, really
this question, isn't so muchabout editing as it is your
overall style when you, when youcreate a photo, everything from
setting the photo up to dialingthe settings to getting it to
the final version.
What is the rich digivaya photostyle and why?
(28:45):
What's behind all that?
Richard (28:47):
you know, since the moment I picked up a camera and
started studying what it is tobe a photographer, and this
question of what's your style?
How do you get to that style?
I have always been very much adocumentary style photographer,
but I've dabbled in so manydifferent areas I've done
(29:10):
portrait photography, I've donearchitectural photography, I've
done macro photography and theuse of all of these different
skills starts to hone and changethe way you perceive a photo or
perceive how you're going toportray it, and I'm a big fan of
making photographs, so style isnot key for me.
(29:34):
I I completely understand whatyou're saying and there's so
many photographers that I can gowho.
That's his style.
I can see the photo.
I don't need to look at thename.
I know who the photographer is.
For me, it is about tellingstories.
We as guides on top ofphotographers as we were talking
about biologists and expeditionleaders first, with our
(29:57):
photography, following in thefootsteps of everything.
For me, for people tounderstand the plight of the
animals, the incredibleunderstanding of behavior and
how that's put out.
I want to show people that.
I want somebody to look at aphotograph and feel what it felt
(30:19):
like to have a lion right thereto see a gorilla yawn right
next to you, to be part of thatsituation, because there's so
many people that will never getto see them in person.
The closest they will get tosee them is either in a zoo or
in a photograph.
And without educating thosepeople, what is the point?
(30:43):
How are we going to save thoseanimals if those people who
never see them don't love them?
So I would like to connectpeople to those beautiful places
that I'm so privileged to getto and let them experience them
too, through a cell phone orthrough a computer screen or a
(31:03):
video, and that is a big part ofit.
I think video, too, has becomea huge part of my way forward,
and I've been influenced veryheavily to push towards it,
because there's so many storiesthat can be told with video that
can't be told by camera, andvice versa.
Court (31:22):
Yeah, you brought up the idea of conservation, the
weaving of the two together, andthat's something I view
personally is very, veryimportant in my work.
I know you do as well.
I want to come back to that.
But you hit on something that Ithink you might help shed some
light on, which is thestorytelling aspect.
I think most photographers,especially those that have been
(31:45):
doing it for a while or viewthemselves as a bit more serious
or go on at least a trip or acouple trips a year.
They know storytelling as apart of it.
But I for one think it'sprobably the most abstract thing
to teach, to teach in aclassroom setting or various
ways.
But I wonder if you could helpkind of walk us through your
(32:07):
mindset Like you might eventhink of a recent situation
where you rolled up on an animalin Saudi sand or elsewhere and
talk to me a bit about what'sgoing through your mind in more
or less setting up for the shotspecifically with a storytelling
element.
You alluded to it a little bitwith behaviors and, of course,
(32:31):
the environment.
I think your wise words onphotographing wildlife in
landscapes versus strictlyportraiture I think it taps on
that as well.
But I love to hear yourthoughts, your methodology,
almost your workflow.
You roll up on an animal on anAfrican safari and you're
thinking, storytelling what'sgoing through your mind, and
(32:53):
feel free to fabricate awildlife encounter situation as
you wish, but specifically withhow can people start basically
doing the same, rolling up on ananimal, whether it's on an
African safari, whether it'selsewhere in the world, and how
do they begin that moment withstorytelling in front of mind?
Richard (33:14):
That's such a great question and I think, as you had
pointed out, it's such anelusive thing to try and put in
your brain and put forward.
I think the more times you'vebeen in a situation or done
something, the clearer yourobjective becomes in the story.
(33:35):
And I don't even have tofabricate much of a story,
because I actually had one onour last trek in Rwanda in
December.
We'd walked in one of thegorilla families that actually
left the forest and they werefeeding on eucalyptus outside of
the forest.
And this is clear human-animalconflict.
(33:59):
It's clear that the space inthe forest is not enough and
they're coming out to getsomething else and the drive of
conservation is to create enoughspace for them so that they can
breed successfully.
So we have less interactionwith people and ensure that
(34:19):
people's livelihoods aren'tinfluenced by the wildlife.
So we minimise that contact andwe walked into the situation.
The whole family was walkingaround and I could see the
volcanoes of Volcanoes NationalPark in the background and I
thought to myself the photo Iwant here is to show one of the
(34:39):
gorilla with the volcano,because it's showing habitat,
it's showing space, it's thegreatest opportunity I'm going
to have, because they were on ahillside on the edge of a
hillside and I wanted that inthe background, and the volcano
was a little covered.
And, as an added bonus, therewas a forest expansion portion
(35:01):
that had been bought out by WWF,right behind where the gorillas
were, and it's just like here'sthe story.
This is the full story.
They're out of the forest,there's the expansion, you can
see the rows of bamboo that hadbeen planted and the volcanoes
in the background, and so thatwas the photo I was setting out
(35:23):
to try and capture One,hopefully a silverback, because
he has the prowess, the strength, the leadership, the wow factor
that comes along with it.
It's like shooting a male lionversus a lioness.
A lioness is really beautiful,but you throw the mane in there
and it suddenly becomessomething more, and eventually I
(35:46):
went off.
The guest were very comfortablewhere they were.
I made sure everything was setand the guides because I've been
there so much, let me roam alittle bit more and I followed
the second silverback.
He went down a little bit andhe sat down and he was
overlooking the WWF field, withthe volcano in the background
(36:07):
and the angels were singingabove me and I didn't know what
to do with myself, but I gotreally low to make him look big.
He sat down.
I put him on the right handside, looking in towards the
photo, so the compositionbecomes a huge part of that
storytelling.
And then the aspects flowingthrough because I'm shooting
with a wide angle, I've got alittle bit more depth of field,
(36:29):
which gives us a little bit moreto the photo and being able to
flow through it.
It was this really reallypowerful image that came out of
it and I was really excited bythat because it's telling a
story that I wish to impart onpeople, and when we are looking
at people who don't get to dothis very often, having a guide
(36:53):
like yourself or myself go inthere and be able to plant seeds
of ideas is a great way to dothat, to start their thought
process, saying think about,when they do this, what is the
story that's going to come with.
The other way I like to do itis, if I'm going to a new place,
(37:14):
is I research photos from thatplace.
I want to see what the placelooks like.
So I can already start formingthose stories in my brain, and I
might take 10,000 photographson a trip, but I'll narrow it
down to the ones that tell mestories.
That will give me 200 images ofthat, and I'm not taking 10,000
(37:36):
different images.
I'd rather take 1,000photographs of that one gorilla
looking out in different ways,so that at the end I can say oh,
there wasn't enough depth offield there, so I added a little
bit more here, or I took someaway there, or I went a bit
wider so that I can ensure thatwhen I get back to my editing
process that I can recreate whatmy eyes saw.
(38:00):
And that's what I want out ofthe Lightroom experiences to
recreate what my eyes saw.
Sometimes we tweak a little bitpast to get a little bit more
creative, but for the most part,for me it's the recreation.
Our eyes are the best camerasin the world.
Our memories need to be heldwithin that camera, and that's
(38:20):
what I'm doing with a camera.
Court (38:23):
Amazing.
I hope you have just inspiredme and opened my mind to at
least for me kind of a new wayof thinking about incorporating
the storytelling, which is youhave to well, I want to say have
to.
That's very definitive.
But you will benefit from goinginto a trip, a photo session,
(38:45):
with an understanding of whatthe stories are first.
Right.
So rather than just gettingwalking up to a place or rolling
up into wildlife and saying,well, what can I make of all
this that tells a story, you'regoing another level and
obviously you understand theworld, wildlife and relationship
.
You understand the humanwildlife conflict.
(39:06):
You understand a lot of thisstuff which is very, very innate
to who you are.
But for other people out there,those in the audience, what a
cool lesson, so powerful, tothink about going into a trip,
going into a day, photographingin gosh your own literal or
metaphorical backyard andresearching the stories that
(39:26):
exist there to then tell themthrough your artistic vision.
That is awesome, awesome advice.
I really love that.
So fantastic, thank you.
So.
Thank you so much for sharingthat.
So I want to come back to theidea of conservation.
I'm a conservation photographer.
You're a conservationphotographer.
I think a lot of folks in theaudience that I think would love
(39:49):
to and be very empowered byusing their photography for
conservation.
Could you tell me a little bitabout how you're currently doing
that and also maybe some adviceto folks that want to know how
to either start their own novelquests on that or maybe advice
that things that you're notdoing but other people could
(40:10):
consider how do you weave, andhow should others weave,
conservation and photographytogether?
Richard (40:17):
I think, first off, anyone going on a trip like this
and going to take photographsis already actively partaking in
the conservation effort Becauseof the fact that we're giving
money to local communities.
Yes, it's a capitalist system,but we need to be able to feed
money into a situation like thatto make it viable.
(40:39):
If something doesn't have aneconomic value, it's going to
fall apart.
So just by being there, you'realready having an effect on
conservation.
You're growing that point andmaking the wild world a better
place.
So that's the first part.
Second part is figuring out howyou wish to do it, and this is
(41:02):
always the question that I asksomebody when they say okay cool
, what camera should I buy?
What is the purpose of yourphotograph?
Are you taking the photographto gain memories for yourself,
in which case your cell phone isgoing to be a great thing?
Are you looking to print a fewphotographs and put them up on a
(41:23):
wall?
I've recently dived into thedigital photo frame world and it
blows my mind because suddenlyI have 5,000 family photos that
I haven't looked at in years andyears and years, which are
rotating on a little screen, andmy kids are absorbed in that.
So my next step is okay cool.
(41:44):
I want to get one of those nicebig TVs like the frame that
Samsung makes, and then have mybest images go through that.
Then I don't have to have oneprint.
I can have 100 prints thatrotate every six hours.
So that's the next level.
I'm getting my enjoyment out ofmy images and other people that
(42:05):
come within that proximity alsoget it All.
We start pushing it out tosocial media, which a lot of
people are on, and we get lostin this world of how we become
relevant in that world.
It's an irrelevant place thatpeople are trying to get
hundreds and thousands andmillions of likes and followers
(42:27):
and everything that does notchange your social standing.
It really is about the peopleyou impact within.
Impact within that crowd ofpeople that see your images and
take in what you're saying, andit's not just about the art of
photography, it's about thestory you tell with it.
(42:48):
What have you learned whenyou're photographing that thing?
A lot of my push at the momentis doing conservation activities
and trying to get people to behands-on in conservation so that
they get to experience thatthey know that the dollars that
they've spent, they'rephysically imparting that
(43:13):
awesomeness onto this animal.
You're helping it in a physicalway and, at the same time,
getting cool, different images.
Thirdly, and this is my latestattempt is now to create a book,
a self-published book, whichfor profit or not for profit
(43:34):
doesn't make a difference.
It's a challenge for myself toshare these images in print,
because seeing it on a screenand seeing it on a piece of
paper and I'm looking in thebackground of what you've got
behind you I know the spaces,I've seen all of those things
with the Madagascar stuff butseeing it on a canvas or on a
piece of paper changes the viewof that photo, and we've become
(43:58):
so digital that we just getstuck behind a screen and it
doesn't give the same feeling aspaging through a book.
So that's almost the next stepto it.
And then, if you really want tothrow it out there, you find
worthy causes that will thengive you the ability to maybe
auction off a photograph for aspecific conservation event that
(44:22):
you wish to contribute towards.
And that's where you're nowtaking extra money on top of all
the other things you've done inorder to make a difference.
And it all is within yoursphere of influence.
You have to find your sphereand where you are at and how you
do that.
All photos may just be shown toyour friends and that's enough
(44:44):
for them to go on a trip to beexperienced, and you've already
added to conservation by thefact that they are going on that
same trip.
Court (44:55):
Yeah, there's a great, I guess, combination of quotes
that I often say that you cannotsave what you do not love and
you cannot love what you do notknow.
So I think photographers,especially folks that are trying
to get into conservationphotography, they think a little
bit beyond the obvious.
They try to think like you knowwhat you're talking about, like
(45:15):
the auctions, the donations ofphotos and all that, and those
are fantastic and they'reabsolutely the next level, but
sometimes people don't giveenough credit to the idea that
your photographs get otherpeople to know things and then
to love things, to then savethings.
So I think that that's one ofthe more obvious yet more
powerful ways photographs canimpact conservation across the
(45:40):
world.
I want to move on to a coupleother things, a little bit
different topics here.
You have achieved somethingquite unique, I think, in the
photographic world, which isyour relationship with Sony.
You are an ambassador youmentioned that earlier and I
think that a lot ofphotographers out there in the
(46:00):
audience would, of course,benefit from and would love to
know you know how can they linkup with camera gear companies?
Obviously, the number ofcompanies that manufacture and
fabricate actual cameras isfinite and those are more
competitive, but there are a lotof other groups out there.
Do you have any advice forpeople of how to get linked up
(46:23):
with them?
You know, is it as simple asputting together a portfolio and
putting a little pitch deck inline, or is it more luck in
right time, right place?
What has your experience beenand what would you advise others
to do?
Richard (46:39):
So I would first off go that there's a bit of luck and
a bit of work involved ineverything.
Knowing the right people andthe right person to chat to and
being able to put your foot inthe door and get that work in
front of people is lucky.
I was, my flow was very luckyin the fact that the people I
(47:06):
knew put me forward and assistedme in getting to that point.
So I was first an iconambassador because of my
relationship with my lodge thatI worked with for many years and
they put me forward.
Then I did a photo talk forthem and they were like, okay,
cool, let's get this guy onboard.
And then I changed to Sony andthey the people who were
bringing in the Nikon werebringing in Sony.
(47:28):
And then they helped me swapover and I just kept
relationships.
So it was all aboutrelationships.
What people don't understand isthat very often we all want
this cool stuff that comes withit, but they also want something
in return.
There's a little bit offeedback.
I had to give a certain numberof images across to Sony.
(47:48):
I had to give.
I have to give appearances tothem, I have to give workshops.
I have to bring things to thetable to bolster the brand.
And, yes, you get paid for itor you get paid in kind for it,
but it's not always as glamorousas what people perceive it to
be.
It's a great ego boost, cool,pat yourself on the back, it's
(48:11):
great.
Sony wants to see my stuff.
I'm very lucky that I had it,since I've moved to Portugal.
I had to give up my ambassadorship because I couldn't fulfill
my duties in South Africa.
And again it's that I'm alignedto the brand because I really
believed in what they wereproducing.
(48:32):
And when I jumped on board withSony, I wanted to get in on the
bottom rung and was just verylucky to get through that stage
and become an ambassador and getto experience things, and for
one, it got me through COVIDbecause guiding stopped, so that
was my sole form of income, wastrying to be creative for that.
(48:54):
But it's not always the be alland end all.
It is an ego boost and peopleare searching for these things
to say, oh, peak design gave methis for free, because I have a
following of this.
It's nice to get stuff for free, but they expect something in
return.
So figure out how you can offerthem something that will
(49:16):
bolster their brand and they'llbe far more amenable to you
assisting them.
A portfolio of images does onething, but starting to create
content and going okay, cool, Igot DJI Mike, this is these are
the things I use.
Blah, blah, blah Court.
You've got an epic podcast thatwe're sitting chatting on now.
(49:36):
If, at the end, you say thiswas shot on XYZ, people start
noticing that and the brandsstart coming to you.
Everyone's trying to bang downthe doors of the brands to get
something for free.
It's the people that areactually doing stuff that the
brands come looking for you, notthe other way around.
So how can you add valuewithout expecting anything in
(50:00):
return?
That is so good.
Court (50:03):
I had no idea what you were gonna say, but that is just
a brilliant, brilliant point,one that is kind of obvious in
some ways, but also very noveland very eye-opening in others
so fantastic.
On a similar front, I'd beremiss if I didn't chat about
your social media following andyour social media presence.
(50:24):
I think it's something that'sjust actually fantastic to your
personal mission of showcasingthe wild world and getting folks
to know things, to love things,via a very, very popular
platform.
I wonder if you could share alittle bit of thoughts and maybe
words of wisdom there for youngor new photographers out there
(50:46):
that wish to use social mediathe Instagram, the YouTube,
others to grow their following,but also to do so in the right
way, to do so with a greaterpurpose in mind of getting
people to again know and lovethis natural world, to save what
we have and protect it.
For a long time, you alluded toit a little bit earlier.
(51:08):
Something that I've always readand also believed about.
It's about how you impact thoseindividual people in the crowd.
Of course, you have more orless hordes coming through to
see your photos and some of themlike them, but then it's that
very filtered out, distilledamount of people where you have
a really big impact.
(51:29):
Those might be the people tofocus on, but I also don't wanna
put words in your mouth.
What is your approach to social?
Maybe a few words on how yougot to be where you're at and
what your thoughts are.
Richard (51:42):
So, again, social media is an interesting.
It is a platform, it is a toolthat a photographer or
videographer gets to use to putthings out into the world and,
in my opinion, it is about thevalue that you add to the
(52:03):
viewer's life that makes thedifference.
I've had a few videos that wentuber viral.
We're talking 100 million viewsviral.
That naturally throws likes andfollows and everything on it.
That number is very arbitrarybecause it's fickle.
(52:27):
People are following you forthe next crazy thing, the next
time a gorilla beats his chestor a lion runs and jumps on
something.
That's not what we're lookingfor.
It's about the photos and thevideos that people get to read
the content, those that actuallysit with your content and go
through it.
And how do you add value tothat?
And my value proposition, as mytime's gone on, has been let's
(52:52):
try to go viral, let's go putstuff up, put stuff up and then,
as you go through that and itdoesn't add the value that you
expected to.
So the thought process haschanged to how can I give people
more value and interact betterwith the people that I do want
to interact with, not the peoplethat are going?
(53:14):
Oh, my goodness, get out ofthere.
You shouldn't be in that space,because they have absolutely no
idea or are even willing toembrace the thought of what was
going on in the video.
Court (53:27):
Yeah, that is excellent.
I love that.
Well, rich.
Thank you so much I want to.
So obviously fantastic advice,so many gems in this talk today.
People, no doubt, are fallingin love with you as well and
they wanna know where to findyou.
Where can we direct people toget more of Rich DeGurvea out in
(53:49):
the world?
Richard (53:50):
So I have on my Instagram handle is Richard
DeGurvea, same on TikTok.
We're on YouTube and my company, arcearth, where we're just
trying to create moreconservation driven safaris, and
we're just out there.
(54:10):
I have a photographic websiteto buy prints, but again, it's
not what it's about.
It's really I just I wanna meetcool people who wanna learn and
if you've got questions aboutthis stuff, I'm happy to
entertain them and help peoplegrow, because I love seeing
people love wildlife and lovephotography and grow with it as
(54:33):
they're going along.
Court (54:34):
Rich, you're so generous with your time and humble.
I am humbled by you.
Thank you so much for joiningus today.
I will put all of thosereferences, all those spots in
the show notes.
So you can be, but I clickedaway from more time with Rich.
Richard (54:50):
Rich once again thank you for joining.
Thank you, Kourt.
Thanks for having me.
Man, it's always a pleasure tochat and I'm gonna see you in a
couple of months.
I'm at your side of the world,so I'm sure I'll be bumping into
you and it'll be great to shareanother chat.
I hope so.
Court (55:10):
Well, that was a lot of fun.
And what sage advice.
Am I right?
If you'd like to learn moreabout Rich, please check out the
links in the show notes where Ihave his websites and social
media handles.
I also have a few links torecommend gear we spoke of, and
if you use these links topurchase gear on Amazon, you are
directly helping to supportthis podcast.
So I thank you in advance.
(55:30):
Lastly, don't be a stranger.
Keep in touch.
If you'd like to email methoughts and comments on the
podcast or ideas for futureepisodes, please do so at.
That's a long email, be ready.
Thewildphotographerpodcast.
At gmailcom.
It's thewildphotographerpodcast.
And at gmailcom.
If you'd like to see more of myown photography work, please
(55:51):
visit courtwailincom.
That's C-O-U-R-T-W-H-E-L-A-Ncom, or on Instagram at court
underscore wailin.
Oh, and I'm also starting topost episodes from the Wild
Photographer on YouTube on mychannel at courtwailin.
You can just search for theWild Photographer and
(56:12):
Courtwailin on YouTube or any ofmy podcast titles, as I
steadily start to upload them.
Thanks for checking those outand all of your support thus far
.
It's a pleasure and until nexttime, follow us on social media.
My guest today is Rich De Gouveia, a phenomenal wildlife
photographer who specializes inAfrican safaris and beyond
Africa.
I say that because he's alsosupremely adept in experience in
photographing far-flung placeslike Madagascar, which is
technically Africa but quitedifferent, but also much more
familiar places on the Africancontinent, but still atypical
(00:23):
safaris like viewing mountaingorillas of Uganda and Rwanda.
The stuff we cover in thisepisode is so helpful and
includes things like Rich'sapproach to storytelling in his
photography, his favorite lensesfor African safaris and gorilla
trekking two very differentendeavors his Sony
Ambassadorship and, of course,his impressive social media
presence, which he greatly usesfor conservation storytelling.
(00:45):
We're lucky to have Rich hereand I'm excited to welcome him.
Rich, welcome to the podcast.
Thank you so much for joiningme today.
Richard (00:53):
Thanks so much, Court.
Thanks for having me today.
I'm really excited to be on theshow and chatting with you.
Court (00:58):
Rich, you have an extraordinary CV for lack of a
better word resume of the placesyou guide, the things you get
into, the photographs you haveaccess to and really make for
yourself.
It's an incredible guidingcareer that you've assembled and
I follow along closely, and, ofcourse, later in the podcast
(01:19):
we'll talk about how others canfollow you a little bit more
closely too.
But one of the questions I haveright off the bat is having to
do with the unique style of anAfrican safari.
The vast majority of your quoteunquote classic African safaris
are vehicle based or vehiclesupported, however you want to
(01:40):
put it, and so my question iskind of twofold here.
So you have obviously uniqueaccess to wildlife vehicles when
you're photographing in Africa.
What have you learned over theyears about how to best
photograph from vehicles?
And then the second part of thatis what of those experiences do
(02:02):
you translate to your on theground work to make to perhaps
make it even better?
And the reason I say all thisjust as background rich guys
everything from your classicmainland East and Southern
African safaris, but also someof the really cool outside the
box stuff like gorilla trackingand Madagascar, and I'm sure
we're going to hear and learnabout other places too.
But yeah, to boil it down, whathave you learned, what are some
(02:26):
tips, what are some thingsyou've internalized about
photographing from vehicles tomake the most of it?
And how do you take that andsay you know what?
What of those lessons mightmake my on the ground stuff even
better, If that even exists?
I'm kind of challenging youthere to see if there is a
bridge that maybe you've learned, or at least appreciate the
ability to say pivot easilyaround an animal when you're on
(02:48):
the ground on foot.
But let's start off with yourthoughts and ideas, what you've
learned over the years and howto best shoot from vehicles.
Richard (02:56):
So, again, the vehicle based safari stuff is is really
fascinating because of thesituation that's gone on over
years and years and a lot of theplaces that we get to travel to
and based on where you get togo National Parks versus private
reserves will change all ofthat aspect, because in private
(03:17):
reserves we get to go off road,get a bit closer.
The animals are accustomed togetting you closer, but
understanding the animalsbehavior and and giving it a
sense of space, so many guidesand so many people are focused
on trying to get as close aspossible to that animal and
(03:39):
99.9% of the time that is notthe best photo you're going to
get is being close, because thecloser you get to something,
especially out of a vehicle, youhave this downward angle where
you're looking down on somethingand you lose the background.
Boca, you lose the impact oftrying to get somebody to eye
(03:59):
level so that they feel morecomfortable around those things.
You know there's so manyaspects to it.
So I love encouraging our localguides because as a private
guide I'm on the back with the,with the guests is encouraging
and creating a relationship withthe local guide to say, ok,
cool, we have long lenses, let'sstay back.
(04:22):
Let's give the animal a bit oftime and space to feel
comfortable with our presence soit doesn't feel like we're just
rushing in and creating thisdiscomfort within the animal.
So you start from further backand you start getting landscape
photos, animal in situ, animalwith the environment and really
(04:43):
creating an image, becauseanyone can get a portrait image
inside a zoo, you just have tozoom in.
But in a while there you wantto show that animal in its space
.
That's what makes it sobeautiful.
It's what makes it makes usable to go back to the same
parks to see the same animals,because they're in a different
(05:03):
place, in a different setting,in different light each and
every time.
So that, for one, is one bigthing.
And understanding that itbecomes vehicle based.
We're always looking at howwe're going to take the next
step, because if an animal islying in one spot, that's not
(05:25):
often what we're going to getthe magical photo from.
The magical photo comes fromprediction, from understanding
animal behavior, for being readyfor that next moment and saying
, ok, cool, it's come from thattree to that tree.
The likelihood is it's going togo to that next one and mark
(05:47):
territory there.
So let's go wait there.
Let's not get it while it'ssleeping, let's go wait in this
spot.
We've got these photos thatgive us a general idea of where
we've been.
But now we need to make aphotograph and in order to do
that, you have to place yourselfand you go, set yourself up in
the next location, ready to takethat shot, having the ability
(06:10):
to have a few seconds to getyour shutter speeds right, to
get your aperture right, tounderstand what the background
is going to be behind thatanimal.
And sometimes we hit it and itcomes up perfectly.
70% of the time we miss itbecause that's the nature of
prediction we don't know whatthe animal is going to do next.
And then that translates a lotto when you're not in a vehicle
(06:36):
and you have more ability tomove around, say something like
a Lima or a gorilla, where we alittle bit more controlled in
how we move around.
But I would take guests and say, okay, cool, let's go wait here
, because the silverback hasmoved here, so that more than
likely the females are gonnafollow along.
(06:56):
This way, we'll get them intothose positions and then taking
the advantage of, while you'reon foot, to get as low as
possible so that you can shootup and make a big gorilla look
even bigger, or get into aposition where you're shooting
almost at eye level with a Limathat's in a tree, rather than
(07:17):
shooting from the bottom up andseeing just a butthole, which is
not gonna give you the greatestphoto in the world, Ha ha such
sage advice, especially thatlast part.
Court (07:30):
That's great.
You just shared like three orfour awesome gems there.
I kind of wanted torecapitulate a little bit of
that One.
You started talking about theangle, right, so a vehicle,
that's the thing is, when you'rein a vehicle and it doesn't
matter if you're in Africa orYellowstone or the Arctic
anywhere when you are out ofnecessity need to be above the
(07:53):
ground, just you and theaudience start thinking about
the angle when an animal is onthe ground and as you get closer
think back to like 10th gradetrigonometry that angle gets
more obtuse.
It actually increases, suchthat the view is photographing
further and further down towardsthe animal and, like Rich said,
(08:15):
you lose that beautifulbackground blur.
You lose some of the essence ofthe photography that you're
trying to get with a really coollandscape around the animal.
So that's huge, the idea ofstaying a little bit further
away, using telephoto power toyour advantage and seeing what
happens.
And that's the next part, and Ilove this because it really
(08:37):
speaks to what we try to do, as,in some cases, sort of like
wildlife experts and biologists.
First and I mean I don't wantto put words in your mouth, but
the way I look at myself, as I'mkind of a biologist first and
photographer second, even thoughthey grew very parallel to one
another.
But knowing the wildlifebehavior is such an awesome
(08:57):
thing as a photo guide and it'ssomething that I think we have
as a super big superpower there.
And then, of course, talkingabout this wildlife and
landscape shot right, I mean,you took the words out of my
mouth.
That's like exactly what Ipreach all day long is that if
you get that classic wildlifeportrait and you can't tell
where it's at, it could be in azoo, it could be anywhere.
(09:19):
So super, super good advicethere.
So the first thing you sharedabout yeah, we have a telephoto,
we had the lens.
Let's stay a little bit furtherback.
I want to talk about gear alittle bit there.
So what if we're talking abouta good beefy telephoto that
allows you to stay a little bitaway, makes that angle a little
more acute, that makes it seemas if perhaps you're at eye
(09:44):
level, maybe literally eye level, but at least it makes it seem
close to eye level to a lion, toa wild dog, to what have you?
What talk to me about some ofthe lenses that you think are
primo for African wildlifesafaris.
I know this can be a verysubjective, contentious issue,
but I'm sure you have your ownopinions and let's hear.
Maybe, if you don't have a tiptop favorite, you know a list of
(10:07):
your favorites.
Richard (10:10):
So I love that.
Corten, the idea of lens andequipment choices, especially
lens choice, is certain integralpart to capturing an image,
especially if you do this overand over, because every time you
change a lens you change theperspective from which you're
(10:32):
photographing, so yourphotographs completely change
when you use a different lens,depending on where we are, will
give us different things.
If I'm saying the Saabi Sands,I could get away with a 300 mil
lens, no problems, because youget so close to the animals and
it's quite dense in terms of itsfoliage and vegetation, so that
(10:53):
limits us in getting far enoughaway With something.
Some way like the Serengeti.
A 600 mil would work so muchbetter because you've got these
wide open planes that allow youto see further and drop that
angle even more.
But the way I like to seephotography and the lens choices
(11:14):
based on destination and basedon your capacity to utilize that
.
There are so many great productsout there.
I love my 400 2.8.
And the reason why I bought the400 2.8 is because I can put a
1.4 times converter on it when Igo to the Serengeti and I've
(11:36):
then effectively got almost 600f4.
Or when I'm in the Saabi Sandsor in Botswana and I don't need
that sort of length.
I take that often.
I've got huge amounts of lightand great bokeh, but it's a huge
lens and on its own it'sweighing almost four pounds, so
you need to be physically fit tobe able to carry that.
(11:59):
Without that ability to do that, it's all good to have the gear
, but no idea, that's not gonnaget you anywhere.
In that case.
Some of these bridge camerasare doing incredible work in
terms of that.
I love the Sony RX10 Mark IVand I'm waiting desperately for
the Mark V to come out because Ithink it is such a powerful
(12:21):
camera.
It goes all the way to 600 f4.
It's in a tiny body that anyonecan handhold, and that
effective distance and thatbeautiful f4 gives us a little
bit of bokeh.
It's got great image quality.
So, depending on where you areon that scale, it's always a
good thing to think of.
(12:41):
And if you're spending the moneythat some of these safaris cost
, if you do have gear say you'retraveling with 100, 400,
because that's the lens you'vegot, and you're spending 20,000,
30,000 on a trip isn't it worthgoing out if you have the
capacity to then rent a 600 f4because you're going to the
(13:02):
Serengeti.
You don't have to go spend 10grand on buying one.
You can spend a grand or two onrenting one for that time and
ensuring that the people you'retraveling with have the ability
to bean bags or the gimbal headsfor you to be able to control
that and get the most out of alens like that.
(13:23):
You can still bring your 100,400 should it not work, but you
can at least buffer yourself andreally extend yourself each
time you go out and then you goto the gorillas and you say,
cool, I'm gonna rent a 70 to 200or a 135, 1.8, just as
something completely different.
You know how can you push yourcreativity by taking these
(13:47):
lenses on.
Court (13:49):
Love that.
Awesome, awesome advice.
And for those that didn't get achance to write that down, the
Sony RX10 Mark IV.
I'm gonna echo Rich's thoughtsthere.
I've had numerous guests inAfrica and Borneo and Alaska,
you name it.
Bring this camera and it isawesome.
It's really impressive.
(14:10):
You don't have to change lenses.
It's yeah, it's a 24 to 600.
I actually didn't know it was F4at 600, which is stunning.
That in itself makes me think,geez, maybe I should look
further into this one, but it'sreally cool.
It's really one of a kind.
It's been on this Mark IVversion, which Mark IV just
means like the fourth iterationof it for years now, which is
(14:32):
anomalous for the camera world.
So I mean, I'm personallyexpecting the Mark V any day now
.
Rich may know more about thatthan I would.
We'll kind of get to his Sonyconnections here, maybe a little
bit.
But yeah, super cool camerathere.
And then I love to hear youtalk about the 400 2.8.
It's funny.
I rarely see that out in thefield.
(14:54):
I rarely see it on Instagram.
I don't hear much about it.
I oftentimes see the 500 F4,the 600 F4, the 300 2.8, but
long, long time that has beenlike my dream lens.
I don't own it, but if I wereto be in a Safari type setting,
(15:14):
as much as Rich would, I wouldsay it's a worthy investment,
very worthy.
So you love that.
Have 400 2.8, yeah like becauseyou can instantly pop on a
moderate teleconverter andbasically get to 600.
So that's super cool.
I think a lot of people whenthey do have the point in their
photo career or their travelcareer and or the means to do it
(15:36):
, it's oftentimes a choicebetween those big primes, right,
the 300 2.8, the 400 2.8, the500 F4, the 600 F4.
And so you're thinking the 4002.8 is your choice.
They're all relatively similarweights, the 300's notably less,
but more or less big oldbazookas, lots of telephoto
(15:57):
power, super big apertures orawesome low light and bokeh.
400 2.8 is your choice.
Yeah, Rich.
Richard (16:05):
Yeah, I just like it because of those variances,
because I can effectively, likeI said, 1.4 teleconverter, two
times teleconverter, and thenI'm at 800 F5.6.
You've got all this movement.
It's also that tiny bit lighterand tiny bit smaller than the
600.
And that size difference.
(16:25):
When I'm traveling and puttingstuff in a bag, I can carry my
400 2.8 in my Peak Design travelbag and walk with it on the
plane, and that makes all thedifference too, to be able to
carry it on and keep it with you.
You don't wanna have to carrythe clunky bag that comes along
with it.
(16:46):
The only thing that comes with aprime, the challenge that comes
with a prime is understandinghow much it's gonna change your
photography, because you cannotzoom, so your creativity when
you have a 100 to 400, 200 to600 doesn't matter the variable
(17:06):
lens that you have, but beingable to move back and forth
makes a big difference.
In this case you actually haveto move the vehicle back in
order to get that space, oryou're that close that you're
now shooting portraits or moreartistic stuff to be able to
work with that.
And in order to balance thatout, I always have two bodies,
(17:28):
so I'll have a second body witha 70 to 200.
In case I need to, I'm tooclose or I'm outside of the
range of that lens, then I canchange and be able to shoot
something wider and still havethe effective use of it.
But that all comes in, and thenwe talk about the Sony again
and bring back the bridge camera, even the cannons that have
these same bridge features thathave long lenses.
(17:50):
But when you want to, you canzoom out and get to a point
that's far more advantageous toget and make a photograph, make
something pretty, Love it.
Court (18:00):
Yeah, what a killer combo 4028 and 70 to 208.
Well, you heard it from Rich.
That is his go-to safari combo.
I couldn't agree more.
That is an awesome setup.
Then you mentioned a 1.4extender.
I haven't spoken a lot aboutextenders on this podcast.
I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Yay, nay, obviously you're insupport of them.
(18:21):
Are they ubiquitous, like, doyou use them all the time?
Are there certain cases?
What are your thoughts?
Richard (18:27):
So teleconverters are interesting.
They've been a dividing factorfor years, years and years and
years.
I think the first iterations ofthem were always an extra piece
of glass that suffered an imagesomewhat and people were going
well, is it really worth puttingit on?
A lot of the times now eventhat question comes in because
(18:49):
we have these high megapixelcameras that okay, if I'm not
that close, I can just crop inand I'm still at 30 megapixels
or 24 megapixels.
But I've found that the newgenerations of these
teleconverters are incrediblysharp.
There's almost zero loss inimage quality across the way,
(19:10):
especially with the mirrorlessiterations of it.
I think with the mirroredversions when we were DSLR there
were definite cons to it, butnow it makes sense the only
thing that really has to bethought of.
And it works well on a 2.8, butit doesn't work well on a 100,
400, or 5.6.
(19:32):
Because the moment you dropthat on, you're not just getting
closer but you're shutting thataperture down.
And light is such a key thingin wildlife photography.
We're always trying to get asmuch light as fast as shutter
speed to freeze the action, tobe in control of that situation,
and the moment you put thatconverter on, you are stifling
(19:55):
that ability to get more light.
So it is a balance.
It's a complete balance.
That's why I find with 400, 2.8, it works beautifully.
100, 400, it doesn't even packin my bag.
I don't even bring it closebecause by the time I get there
I'm at f9 and I'm out of the gap.
Court (20:14):
Yeah, back in the day when I used to shoot a lot with
the 7200, 208, I thought youknow this might be the best kind
of wildlife combo Get a 7200and a two times converter and
that way I can get a 400 f5, 6.
I dropped that like a bad habit.
It was so soft, like I might aswell just shoot with the 7200
(20:34):
and crop in.
It was so disappointing.
But I love to hear what you sayabout the new muralist
iterations.
That gives me a lot of hope.
And, of course, for those inthe audience, anytime you use a
teleconverter or tele extendertomato tomato on a prime lens
you're in a way, way bettershape Zoom lenses.
Just they don't really behavevery well but teleconverters.
(20:55):
So I continue on this lens andgear thing.
I remember seeing a photo fromyou, rich.
Oh, I see a lot of photos fromyou, but a particular one of
chimpanzee.
I'm pretty sure it was inKabali, uganda, and I was
looking at like your shotsettings and I saw you're
shooting with a 135 1.8 lens andI'm like, what is this guy
(21:17):
doing?
He's using a weddingphotographer lens on an epic
chimp track.
Of course the photo is stunning.
Talk to me about that, like 1351.8.
Is that a routine lens youbring with you just because of
how unique it is, or what'swhat's going on there?
Richard (21:34):
So, again, I'd mentioned a little bit earlier
that every time you go out witha new lens, you're allowing a
new perspective, a different wayto view the world.
And the thought was well, I'mshooting our close cousins and
this is a portrait lens, so whycan't they be a portrait?
(21:56):
On top of the fact that it isso dark in the jungles that
trying to shoot over 200th of asecond and you're fighting.
So having a 1.8 is incrediblyadvantageous, but shooting with
that lens and its prime one.
And I'd shot for years with the70 to 200.
(22:16):
So I had the same images overand over again, each time still
the same gorilla or samechimpanzee with the same
perspective, and the moment Iput a new lens on, it changed
everything.
So with my ambassadorship withSony, I got to test different
things out.
So it was a case of I'm in theprime seats to be able to say,
(22:40):
oh, I'd like to test that oneout, can I have that for a week
while I go to the gorillas andchimps and have a shoot with
that and I loved it, I loved it,I loved it.
I haven't put it permanently inmy bag because it's an
expensive lens, but it's a niceone to toy around with, and I
don't think it's the last timeI'll go.
(23:00):
My next one I actually want tofiddle around with is a 50mm
f1.2.
Again very prime, veryportrait-based low light,
shallow depth of field, goodbokeh, and see what I get out of
the the gorillas and chimps.
(23:20):
With that.
Again, slightly wider, createmore jungle shots, but with the
shallow depth of field and speedto be able to freeze the action
.
So it's always a considerationhow can I change what's going in
front of my camera to changethe perspective of what my view
is going to see when they lookat the photo on Instagram or on
(23:41):
any form of media?
Court (23:42):
Heck.
Yeah, I love it and it was astunning photo.
We'll provide links to hisInstagram where you can see that
photo and many others.
Yeah, it was just.
It was stunning, it was.
It was a portrait.
And the cool thing is, you know,we were kind of dogging some of
the wildlife portraits on theSerengeti and whatnot.
When you're in that denseforest of Kabali, there is no
(24:04):
mistaking you were in the legitjungle.
I mean, there's vegetation andleaves everywhere.
You can't mistake that.
And that's also not to say.
You know, wildlife portraitsare fantastic wherever you go.
We're really talking aboutthinking outside the box here.
But that lens super awesome.
Love to hear it.
Okay, so another, another bigplace, and then, you know, this
will sort of be our last littleforay on lenses and gear.
(24:26):
But gorilla trekking what'syour go-to lens for gorilla
trekking?
What do you?
What do you have on your?
Your camera, as you, you know,drop your bags off with the,
with the trackers, and you headinto that last hundred yards.
You're stepping over vines.
You know, you got thatanticipation, no matter if it's
the hundred time you've done it.
You've got a camera, a lens onand maybe a lens in your pocket.
(24:47):
What do you have?
Richard (24:49):
So my go-to is a 70 to 200, 2.8 mm, that variability of
being able to go a little bitwider and have the portrait
ability of the 200 and get a bitcloser.
Without a doubt that lens wasit was almost built to go shoot
primates, but in that samesetting the lenses are so
(25:14):
important, but how you strapthem to you is so important too.
And having a good strap to beable to put that camera around
you and tuck it behind you.
Because you're in a forestenvironment, you're walking
between things, like you'resaying, you're stepping over
vines, we're in windy andpenetrable forest they didn't
call it in penetrable fornothing and I think the the way
(25:38):
you go in and the preparationthat you have, not just with how
you're gonna shoot but howyou're gonna carry, I very often
would take a second body.
Or I will take one lens and onebody and focus one track just
in one dimension, and then thesecond track.
(25:58):
I may then go okay, cool, I'mgoing to take the 16 to 35 mm
and shoot uber wide and wait forgorillas who may walk past me
to get down low.
Shoot up creates a differentatmosphere again, just changing
the perspective and pushingmyself.
For a first time at 70 to 200straight away.
(26:20):
If you're doing four tracks,then I'd say, okay, one of them,
be out there, throw it all outthere, leave your 70 to 200
behind, take a lens that's gonnachallenge you creatively and
throw yourself in the in in thatpot and see where it comes out.
And but yeah, it's a.
It's a very fascinating choiceof stuff.
(26:42):
Like I said, the 50mm is now mynext one.
I want to play with the 135mmI've used before.
I've taken a 400mm in there,which was very interesting, but
a lot to carry and the porterslook at you funny when you bring
them a bag that weighs 10pounds to then carry Gorilla
eyelashes.
Court (27:00):
Yes, exactly, that's, that's fantastic.
Are you ever using your, youriPhone, your smartphone, when
you're in there?
Richard (27:08):
All the time, all the time.
Video, the, the, the iPhonesoffer so much, or the phone
photography is so spectacular atthe moment.
It gives you the ability tovideo and the video quality on
them is spectacular.
For those close-up situationsor if I need to jump to a wide
angle, I can quickly drop inthere, and I'm often taking
(27:29):
photos of guests with the, withthe animals, with the, with the
phones, so that I can sharethose memories with them too,
because very often, as aphotographer, we're caught in a
position where we are taking thephotographs and we have none of
ourselves doing what beingthere.
So I love, I love capturingpeople and the situation so that
(27:53):
they, too, have these memoriesto take back with them and just
enjoy the situation.
Court (27:59):
So I want to zoom out here.
I guess pun intended there orwe'll.
We'll go to the 30,000 footlevel here and talk.
I want to talk a little bitabout your photo style.
I you know, the more I seephotographers, other
photographers, the more I'mseeing distinct styles, very
specific characteristics.
We have some folks that do alot of editing.
(28:21):
We have some folks that aregoing more for a purist or or
very, in the moment, minimalediting style, and this, really
this question, isn't so muchabout editing as it is your
overall style when you, when youcreate a photo, everything from
setting the photo up to dialingthe settings to getting it to
the final version.
What is the rich digivaya photostyle and why?
(28:45):
What's behind all that?
Richard (28:47):
you know, since the moment I picked up a camera and
started studying what it is tobe a photographer, and this
question of what's your style?
How do you get to that style?
I have always been very much adocumentary style photographer,
but I've dabbled in so manydifferent areas I've done
(29:10):
portrait photography, I've donearchitectural photography, I've
done macro photography and theuse of all of these different
skills starts to hone and changethe way you perceive a photo or
perceive how you're going toportray it, and I'm a big fan of
making photographs, so style isnot key for me.
(29:34):
I I completely understand whatyou're saying and there's so
many photographers that I can gowho.
That's his style.
I can see the photo.
I don't need to look at thename.
I know who the photographer is.
For me, it is about tellingstories.
We as guides on top ofphotographers as we were talking
about biologists and expeditionleaders first, with our
(29:57):
photography, following in thefootsteps of everything.
For me, for people tounderstand the plight of the
animals, the incredibleunderstanding of behavior and
how that's put out.
I want to show people that.
I want somebody to look at aphotograph and feel what it felt
(30:19):
like to have a lion right thereto see a gorilla yawn right
next to you, to be part of thatsituation, because there's so
many people that will never getto see them in person.
The closest they will get tosee them is either in a zoo or
in a photograph.
And without educating thosepeople, what is the point?
(30:43):
How are we going to save thoseanimals if those people who
never see them don't love them?
So I would like to connectpeople to those beautiful places
that I'm so privileged to getto and let them experience them
too, through a cell phone orthrough a computer screen or a
(31:03):
video, and that is a big part ofit.
I think video, too, has becomea huge part of my way forward,
and I've been influenced veryheavily to push towards it,
because there's so many storiesthat can be told with video that
can't be told by camera, andvice versa.
Court (31:22):
Yeah, you brought up the idea of conservation, the
weaving of the two together, andthat's something I view
personally is very, veryimportant in my work.
I know you do as well.
I want to come back to that.
But you hit on something that Ithink you might help shed some
light on, which is thestorytelling aspect.
I think most photographers,especially those that have been
(31:45):
doing it for a while or viewthemselves as a bit more serious
or go on at least a trip or acouple trips a year.
They know storytelling as apart of it.
But I for one think it'sprobably the most abstract thing
to teach, to teach in aclassroom setting or various
ways.
But I wonder if you could helpkind of walk us through your
(32:07):
mindset Like you might eventhink of a recent situation
where you rolled up on an animalin Saudi sand or elsewhere and
talk to me a bit about what'sgoing through your mind in more
or less setting up for the shotspecifically with a storytelling
element.
You alluded to it a little bitwith behaviors and, of course,
(32:31):
the environment.
I think your wise words onphotographing wildlife in
landscapes versus strictlyportraiture I think it taps on
that as well.
But I love to hear yourthoughts, your methodology,
almost your workflow.
You roll up on an animal on anAfrican safari and you're
thinking, storytelling what'sgoing through your mind, and
(32:53):
feel free to fabricate awildlife encounter situation as
you wish, but specifically withhow can people start basically
doing the same, rolling up on ananimal, whether it's on an
African safari, whether it'selsewhere in the world, and how
do they begin that moment withstorytelling in front of mind?
Richard (33:14):
That's such a great question and I think, as you had
pointed out, it's such anelusive thing to try and put in
your brain and put forward.
I think the more times you'vebeen in a situation or done
something, the clearer yourobjective becomes in the story.
(33:35):
And I don't even have tofabricate much of a story,
because I actually had one onour last trek in Rwanda in
December.
We'd walked in one of thegorilla families that actually
left the forest and they werefeeding on eucalyptus outside of
the forest.
And this is clear human-animalconflict.
(33:59):
It's clear that the space inthe forest is not enough and
they're coming out to getsomething else and the drive of
conservation is to create enoughspace for them so that they can
breed successfully.
So we have less interactionwith people and ensure that
(34:19):
people's livelihoods aren'tinfluenced by the wildlife.
So we minimise that contact andwe walked into the situation.
The whole family was walkingaround and I could see the
volcanoes of Volcanoes NationalPark in the background and I
thought to myself the photo Iwant here is to show one of the
(34:39):
gorilla with the volcano,because it's showing habitat,
it's showing space, it's thegreatest opportunity I'm going
to have, because they were on ahillside on the edge of a
hillside and I wanted that inthe background, and the volcano
was a little covered.
And, as an added bonus, therewas a forest expansion portion
(35:01):
that had been bought out by WWF,right behind where the gorillas
were, and it's just like here'sthe story.
This is the full story.
They're out of the forest,there's the expansion, you can
see the rows of bamboo that hadbeen planted and the volcanoes
in the background, and so thatwas the photo I was setting out
(35:23):
to try and capture One,hopefully a silverback, because
he has the prowess, the strength, the leadership, the wow factor
that comes along with it.
It's like shooting a male lionversus a lioness.
A lioness is really beautiful,but you throw the mane in there
and it suddenly becomessomething more, and eventually I
(35:46):
went off.
The guest were very comfortablewhere they were.
I made sure everything was setand the guides because I've been
there so much, let me roam alittle bit more and I followed
the second silverback.
He went down a little bit andhe sat down and he was
overlooking the WWF field, withthe volcano in the background
(36:07):
and the angels were singingabove me and I didn't know what
to do with myself, but I gotreally low to make him look big.
He sat down.
I put him on the right handside, looking in towards the
photo, so the compositionbecomes a huge part of that
storytelling.
And then the aspects flowingthrough because I'm shooting
with a wide angle, I've got alittle bit more depth of field,
(36:29):
which gives us a little bit moreto the photo and being able to
flow through it.
It was this really reallypowerful image that came out of
it and I was really excited bythat because it's telling a
story that I wish to impart onpeople, and when we are looking
at people who don't get to dothis very often, having a guide
(36:53):
like yourself or myself go inthere and be able to plant seeds
of ideas is a great way to dothat, to start their thought
process, saying think about,when they do this, what is the
story that's going to come with.
The other way I like to do itis, if I'm going to a new place,
(37:14):
is I research photos from thatplace.
I want to see what the placelooks like.
So I can already start formingthose stories in my brain, and I
might take 10,000 photographson a trip, but I'll narrow it
down to the ones that tell mestories.
That will give me 200 images ofthat, and I'm not taking 10,000
(37:36):
different images.
I'd rather take 1,000photographs of that one gorilla
looking out in different ways,so that at the end I can say oh,
there wasn't enough depth offield there, so I added a little
bit more here, or I took someaway there, or I went a bit
wider so that I can ensure thatwhen I get back to my editing
process that I can recreate whatmy eyes saw.
(38:00):
And that's what I want out ofthe Lightroom experiences to
recreate what my eyes saw.
Sometimes we tweak a little bitpast to get a little bit more
creative, but for the most part,for me it's the recreation.
Our eyes are the best camerasin the world.
Our memories need to be heldwithin that camera, and that's
(38:20):
what I'm doing with a camera.
Court (38:23):
Amazing.
I hope you have just inspiredme and opened my mind to at
least for me kind of a new wayof thinking about incorporating
the storytelling, which is youhave to well, I want to say have
to.
That's very definitive.
But you will benefit from goinginto a trip, a photo session,
(38:45):
with an understanding of whatthe stories are first.
Right.
So rather than just gettingwalking up to a place or rolling
up into wildlife and saying,well, what can I make of all
this that tells a story, you'regoing another level and
obviously you understand theworld, wildlife and relationship
.
You understand the humanwildlife conflict.
(39:06):
You understand a lot of thisstuff which is very, very innate
to who you are.
But for other people out there,those in the audience, what a
cool lesson, so powerful, tothink about going into a trip,
going into a day, photographingin gosh your own literal or
metaphorical backyard andresearching the stories that
(39:26):
exist there to then tell themthrough your artistic vision.
That is awesome, awesome advice.
I really love that.
So fantastic, thank you.
So.
Thank you so much for sharingthat.
So I want to come back to theidea of conservation.
I'm a conservation photographer.
You're a conservationphotographer.
I think a lot of folks in theaudience that I think would love
(39:49):
to and be very empowered byusing their photography for
conservation.
Could you tell me a little bitabout how you're currently doing
that and also maybe some adviceto folks that want to know how
to either start their own novelquests on that or maybe advice
that things that you're notdoing but other people could
(40:10):
consider how do you weave, andhow should others weave,
conservation and photographytogether?
Richard (40:17):
I think, first off, anyone going on a trip like this
and going to take photographsis already actively partaking in
the conservation effort Becauseof the fact that we're giving
money to local communities.
Yes, it's a capitalist system,but we need to be able to feed
money into a situation like thatto make it viable.
(40:39):
If something doesn't have aneconomic value, it's going to
fall apart.
So just by being there, you'realready having an effect on
conservation.
You're growing that point andmaking the wild world a better
place.
So that's the first part.
Second part is figuring out howyou wish to do it, and this is
(41:02):
always the question that I asksomebody when they say okay cool
, what camera should I buy?
What is the purpose of yourphotograph?
Are you taking the photographto gain memories for yourself,
in which case your cell phone isgoing to be a great thing?
Are you looking to print a fewphotographs and put them up on a
(41:23):
wall?
I've recently dived into thedigital photo frame world and it
blows my mind because suddenlyI have 5,000 family photos that
I haven't looked at in years andyears and years, which are
rotating on a little screen, andmy kids are absorbed in that.
So my next step is okay cool.
(41:44):
I want to get one of those nicebig TVs like the frame that
Samsung makes, and then have mybest images go through that.
Then I don't have to have oneprint.
I can have 100 prints thatrotate every six hours.
So that's the next level.
I'm getting my enjoyment out ofmy images and other people that
(42:05):
come within that proximity alsoget it All.
We start pushing it out tosocial media, which a lot of
people are on, and we get lostin this world of how we become
relevant in that world.
It's an irrelevant place thatpeople are trying to get
hundreds and thousands andmillions of likes and followers
(42:27):
and everything that does notchange your social standing.
It really is about the peopleyou impact within.
Impact within that crowd ofpeople that see your images and
take in what you're saying, andit's not just about the art of
photography, it's about thestory you tell with it.
(42:48):
What have you learned whenyou're photographing that thing?
A lot of my push at the momentis doing conservation activities
and trying to get people to behands-on in conservation so that
they get to experience thatthey know that the dollars that
they've spent, they'rephysically imparting that
(43:13):
awesomeness onto this animal.
You're helping it in a physicalway and, at the same time,
getting cool, different images.
Thirdly, and this is my latestattempt is now to create a book,
a self-published book, whichfor profit or not for profit
(43:34):
doesn't make a difference.
It's a challenge for myself toshare these images in print,
because seeing it on a screenand seeing it on a piece of
paper and I'm looking in thebackground of what you've got
behind you I know the spaces,I've seen all of those things
with the Madagascar stuff butseeing it on a canvas or on a
piece of paper changes the viewof that photo, and we've become
(43:58):
so digital that we just getstuck behind a screen and it
doesn't give the same feeling aspaging through a book.
So that's almost the next stepto it.
And then, if you really want tothrow it out there, you find
worthy causes that will thengive you the ability to maybe
auction off a photograph for aspecific conservation event that
(44:22):
you wish to contribute towards.
And that's where you're nowtaking extra money on top of all
the other things you've done inorder to make a difference.
And it all is within yoursphere of influence.
You have to find your sphereand where you are at and how you
do that.
All photos may just be shown toyour friends and that's enough
(44:44):
for them to go on a trip to beexperienced, and you've already
added to conservation by thefact that they are going on that
same trip.
Court (44:55):
Yeah, there's a great, I guess, combination of quotes
that I often say that you cannotsave what you do not love and
you cannot love what you do notknow.
So I think photographers,especially folks that are trying
to get into conservationphotography, they think a little
bit beyond the obvious.
They try to think like you knowwhat you're talking about, like
(45:15):
the auctions, the donations ofphotos and all that, and those
are fantastic and they'reabsolutely the next level, but
sometimes people don't giveenough credit to the idea that
your photographs get otherpeople to know things and then
to love things, to then savethings.
So I think that that's one ofthe more obvious yet more
powerful ways photographs canimpact conservation across the
(45:40):
world.
I want to move on to a coupleother things, a little bit
different topics here.
You have achieved somethingquite unique, I think, in the
photographic world, which isyour relationship with Sony.
You are an ambassador youmentioned that earlier and I
think that a lot ofphotographers out there in the
(46:00):
audience would, of course,benefit from and would love to
know you know how can they linkup with camera gear companies?
Obviously, the number ofcompanies that manufacture and
fabricate actual cameras isfinite and those are more
competitive, but there are a lotof other groups out there.
Do you have any advice forpeople of how to get linked up
(46:23):
with them?
You know, is it as simple asputting together a portfolio and
putting a little pitch deck inline, or is it more luck in
right time, right place?
What has your experience beenand what would you advise others
to do?
Richard (46:39):
So I would first off go that there's a bit of luck and
a bit of work involved ineverything.
Knowing the right people andthe right person to chat to and
being able to put your foot inthe door and get that work in
front of people is lucky.
I was, my flow was very luckyin the fact that the people I
(47:06):
knew put me forward and assistedme in getting to that point.
So I was first an iconambassador because of my
relationship with my lodge thatI worked with for many years and
they put me forward.
Then I did a photo talk forthem and they were like, okay,
cool, let's get this guy onboard.
And then I changed to Sony andthey the people who were
bringing in the Nikon werebringing in Sony.
(47:28):
And then they helped me swapover and I just kept
relationships.
So it was all aboutrelationships.
What people don't understand isthat very often we all want
this cool stuff that comes withit, but they also want something
in return.
There's a little bit offeedback.
I had to give a certain numberof images across to Sony.
(47:48):
I had to give.
I have to give appearances tothem, I have to give workshops.
I have to bring things to thetable to bolster the brand.
And, yes, you get paid for itor you get paid in kind for it,
but it's not always as glamorousas what people perceive it to
be.
It's a great ego boost, cool,pat yourself on the back, it's
(48:11):
great.
Sony wants to see my stuff.
I'm very lucky that I had it,since I've moved to Portugal.
I had to give up my ambassadorship because I couldn't fulfill
my duties in South Africa.
And again it's that I'm alignedto the brand because I really
believed in what they wereproducing.
(48:32):
And when I jumped on board withSony, I wanted to get in on the
bottom rung and was just verylucky to get through that stage
and become an ambassador and getto experience things, and for
one, it got me through COVIDbecause guiding stopped, so that
was my sole form of income, wastrying to be creative for that.
(48:54):
But it's not always the be alland end all.
It is an ego boost and peopleare searching for these things
to say, oh, peak design gave methis for free, because I have a
following of this.
It's nice to get stuff for free, but they expect something in
return.
So figure out how you can offerthem something that will
(49:16):
bolster their brand and they'llbe far more amenable to you
assisting them.
A portfolio of images does onething, but starting to create
content and going okay, cool, Igot DJI Mike, this is these are
the things I use.
Blah, blah, blah Court.
You've got an epic podcast thatwe're sitting chatting on now.
(49:36):
If, at the end, you say thiswas shot on XYZ, people start
noticing that and the brandsstart coming to you.
Everyone's trying to bang downthe doors of the brands to get
something for free.
It's the people that areactually doing stuff that the
brands come looking for you, notthe other way around.
So how can you add valuewithout expecting anything in
(50:00):
return?
That is so good.
Court (50:03):
I had no idea what you were gonna say, but that is just
a brilliant, brilliant point,one that is kind of obvious in
some ways, but also very noveland very eye-opening in others
so fantastic.
On a similar front, I'd beremiss if I didn't chat about
your social media following andyour social media presence.
(50:24):
I think it's something that'sjust actually fantastic to your
personal mission of showcasingthe wild world and getting folks
to know things, to love things,via a very, very popular
platform.
I wonder if you could share alittle bit of thoughts and maybe
words of wisdom there for youngor new photographers out there
(50:46):
that wish to use social mediathe Instagram, the YouTube,
others to grow their following,but also to do so in the right
way, to do so with a greaterpurpose in mind of getting
people to again know and lovethis natural world, to save what
we have and protect it.
For a long time, you alluded toit a little bit earlier.
(51:08):
Something that I've always readand also believed about.
It's about how you impact thoseindividual people in the crowd.
Of course, you have more orless hordes coming through to
see your photos and some of themlike them, but then it's that
very filtered out, distilledamount of people where you have
a really big impact.
(51:29):
Those might be the people tofocus on, but I also don't wanna
put words in your mouth.
What is your approach to social?
Maybe a few words on how yougot to be where you're at and
what your thoughts are.
Richard (51:42):
So, again, social media is an interesting.
It is a platform, it is a toolthat a photographer or
videographer gets to use to putthings out into the world and,
in my opinion, it is about thevalue that you add to the
(52:03):
viewer's life that makes thedifference.
I've had a few videos that wentuber viral.
We're talking 100 million viewsviral.
That naturally throws likes andfollows and everything on it.
That number is very arbitrarybecause it's fickle.
(52:27):
People are following you forthe next crazy thing, the next
time a gorilla beats his chestor a lion runs and jumps on
something.
That's not what we're lookingfor.
It's about the photos and thevideos that people get to read
the content, those that actuallysit with your content and go
through it.
And how do you add value tothat?
And my value proposition, as mytime's gone on, has been let's
(52:52):
try to go viral, let's go putstuff up, put stuff up and then,
as you go through that and itdoesn't add the value that you
expected to.
So the thought process haschanged to how can I give people
more value and interact betterwith the people that I do want
to interact with, not the peoplethat are going?
(53:14):
Oh, my goodness, get out ofthere.
You shouldn't be in that space,because they have absolutely no
idea or are even willing toembrace the thought of what was
going on in the video.
Court (53:27):
Yeah, that is excellent.
I love that.
Well, rich.
Thank you so much I want to.
So obviously fantastic advice,so many gems in this talk today.
People, no doubt, are fallingin love with you as well and
they wanna know where to findyou.
Where can we direct people toget more of Rich DeGurvea out in
(53:49):
the world?
Richard (53:50):
So I have on my Instagram handle is Richard
DeGurvea, same on TikTok.
We're on YouTube and my company, arcearth, where we're just
trying to create moreconservation driven safaris, and
we're just out there.
(54:10):
I have a photographic websiteto buy prints, but again, it's
not what it's about.
It's really I just I wanna meetcool people who wanna learn and
if you've got questions aboutthis stuff, I'm happy to
entertain them and help peoplegrow, because I love seeing
people love wildlife and lovephotography and grow with it as
(54:33):
they're going along.
Court (54:34):
Rich, you're so generous with your time and humble.
I am humbled by you.
Thank you so much for joiningus today.
I will put all of thosereferences, all those spots in
the show notes.
So you can be, but I clickedaway from more time with Rich.
Richard (54:50):
Rich once again thank you for joining.
Thank you, Kourt.
Thanks for having me.
Man, it's always a pleasure tochat and I'm gonna see you in a
couple of months.
I'm at your side of the world,so I'm sure I'll be bumping into
you and it'll be great to shareanother chat.
I hope so.
Court (55:10):
Well, that was a lot of fun.
And what sage advice.
Am I right?
If you'd like to learn moreabout Rich, please check out the
links in the show notes where Ihave his websites and social
media handles.
I also have a few links torecommend gear we spoke of, and
if you use these links topurchase gear on Amazon, you are
directly helping to supportthis podcast.
So I thank you in advance.
(55:30):
Lastly, don't be a stranger.
Keep in touch.
If you'd like to email methoughts and comments on the
podcast or ideas for futureepisodes, please do so at.
That's a long email, be ready.
Thewildphotographerpodcast.
At gmailcom.
It's thewildphotographerpodcast.
And at gmailcom.
If you'd like to see more of myown photography work, please
(55:51):
visit courtwailincom.
That's C-O-U-R-T-W-H-E-L-A-Ncom, or on Instagram at court
underscore wailin.
Oh, and I'm also starting topost episodes from the Wild
Photographer on YouTube on mychannel at courtwailin.
You can just search for theWild Photographer and
(56:12):
Courtwailin on YouTube or any ofmy podcast titles, as I
steadily start to upload them.
Thanks for checking those outand all of your support thus far
.
It's a pleasure and until nexttime, follow us on social media.
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