NATHAN SPEARING - Reforming America's Military: How Hegseth Just Set Up Generals for Termination - The Will Spencer Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Foreign.

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Hello and welcome to the WillSpencer Podcast.
This is a weekly interviewshow where I sit down and talk with
authors, thought leaders andinfluencers who help us understand
our changing world.
New episodes release every Friday.
My guest this week is Nathan Spearing.
Nate is the oldest of sevenhomeschooled children and a 13 year
U.S. army Special Operations veteran.
He served with distinction asa sniper and assaulter and special

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forces and squad leader in the75th Ranger Regiment, completing
multiple combat deployments toIraq, Afghanistan, and other locations.
He specialized incounterterrorism, hostage rescue,
clandestine operations, andmultinational force training.
And as a senior enlistedadvisor, he directly supported US
Ambassadors, senior Departmentof Defense officials, and interagency

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leaders during politicallysensitive missions and an active
hostage crisis.
After 12 combat deployments,Nathan left the military in 2016
to be a more present husbandand father to his five children.
He founded a bespoke generalcontracting company in Pinehurst,
North Carolina.
And over the last three years,Nathan and his family have built
a compound and trainingfacility on more than 50 acres where

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he trains families andchurches to quot rescue those who
are being taken away to deathand hold back those who are stumbling
to slaughter.
That's Proverbs 24:11.
Nate Spearing, welcome to themonth long celebration of five years
of the Will Spencer podcast.
Yeah.
Good to be back and especiallyduring this monumental time, marking

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time for you in this as well.
Thank you.
Thank you.
It's been, it's been anincredible five years.
There's certainly lots that'shappened in my journey, including
meeting you.
I think we met.
Was it like late 2021, early2022 something?
I think so.
Yep.
Of course, you've been such ablessing to me along the way.
And, and for those who don'tknow, Nate was the best man at my

(02:32):
wedding.
And I was just looking atphotos of that today, so that was
a very special time for us.
That was a awesome weekend andalso reminded me that I am not as
young as I used to be.
We didn't, we didn't go that hard.
We didn't go that hard.
But we, we ended up notsleeping a lot though.
That's true.
I think my, my, my sleeptracker was, was like get some sleep,

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dude.
Hell yeah.
We, well, the, the, the guy,the guys get together went until
what like three in the morningor something like that?
Was that, was it that?
Yeah, yeah, that one.
And then I think even, youknow, after the wedding and you took
off, you know, it was like ourlast night in town and I think other
Nate and I stayed Well, Idon't think we left for Spokane until

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after midnight or 1:00 clockand then you know, 2:00am and then
I think we had to get up at4:30 to fly back from the west coast
too.
So it was a, it was like thefinal, final push.
Slept pretty much drooled onthe airplane window the whole way
back.
That's right.
Tamara and I left for the sendoff and just like forgot about everything.

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But I guess people kepthanging out at the wedding for quite
a bit longer which wasactually, that was really nice to
hear.
Yeah.
And I, you know being in thatlocation, there's a lot of cool people.
So I, I shot some texts out.
We're like hey, you know the,the main attraction just took off
starting to, starting toslower, slow down a little bit.
Started trying to set someother stuff up last minute, keep

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the party alive.
So nice.
So I'm glad to hear thateveryone had a good, had a good time
in our absence as we went.
We went off to start our lives together.
So you and I were going to talk.
I think the original plan wasto talk in November but we rescheduled
this week which turns out tohave been a really, a good.
I think it was yesterdaySecretary of War Pete hegseth released

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a 45 minute talk that he gave.
I believe it was to thegenerals of the combined generals
of the armed forces.
And that was a barn burner ofa speech.
I think you sent it to me andother Nate sent it to me and wow,
what a thing to be looking atfrom outside the military.
Yeah, I was in the process ofgetting out of the military.

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I actually was doing my VAappointments when Trump won the first
election and everybody kind ofwas messaging me like haha, you're
getting out and it's about tobe the glory days.
And I was like well thesekinds of things ebb and flow.
So and, and, and I had a good,good run so it'll be all right.
And they did ebb and flow butwe're ebbing back in a positive direction

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from where I sit specificallyand I've, I've briefed when that
when the colonel, when a fullburn colonel becomes a promotable
to general so there's you knowthey get upper officer and enlisted
kind of have sequence numberbecause these positions are specific

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to the rank and so you can'tjust keep promoting just like in
a job you can't take ifsomebody's already in the position.
So they have kind of agrooming period where they travel
around and are educated and I,the part that I get exposed, the
part that I was exposed tothose rising colonels, to General

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was kind of annoying to me.
It's, it's kind of a, it just, it.
The, I don't envy theirposition because the higher up in
rank you go, the more removedyou are from the ground level.
And I guess that was kind ofthe intent of bringing them through
Fort Bragg and talking todifferent people there is to kind

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of give them an exposure ofwhat is happening maybe at the ground
level in special operationscommunity and things like that.
And, But I just remember themlike duking it out over some Wall
Street Journal article andthey're basically, we're like, it's
like a nerd rap battle.
And I was just like, oh mygosh, no wonder, like we're in such
a state of affairs.

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You know, even, even then is,is these, there, there's, there's
a little bit of a high buffoonfactor there.
And, and, and I'm judging themharshly because I'm, you know, I've
always been essentially on the ground.
I didn't have to ascend intothose upper, upper ranks like some
of our friends are having todo that now.
So I, I kind of, you know, waslike, yeah, not for me.

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I'm, I'm out.
And, but, but there is just atremendous top heaviness to our military
and, and in quantity and alsobody mass as the Secretary of War
alluded to.
And, and it's, it's a greatdirection for our military.
And I, I actually wrote amemorandum of somebody connected

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with Trump's first campaignand kind of was calling for a return
to the pre or World War II eraratio of generals to troops.
And it's not unique to me, buta lot of people have highlighted
the number of generals thatwere on active duty, specifically
the four star capacity andthat kind of high level general,

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the number that we havecompared to the number of troops
on active duty in that ratioof World War II, in the ratio now.
And it's, it's just, I don'teven know what.
It's something like, I thinkfour or five times as many generals
ratio by ratio.
It's just, it's justridiculously bureaucratic and top

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heavy.
So a lot of people have saidlike, we just, we just need less
of them.
There's just too many, toomany cooks in the kitchen.
There's too many of these,these, the bureaucracy is thick.
But you know, I think thatwhenever, whenever the generals all
went to this meeting andeverybody was speculating about it,
I.
We talked about this.
I think already I was notthinking that we were going to war

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and there was some nuclearcrisis about to happen.
I was like, he's going to fire him.
You know, but now as a, youknow, business owner, I realize,
like, it's hard to fire peoplewhen there isn't a clear standard
that they violated.
You know, in a lot of ways,that's been nebulous in the military.
And so what this meeting was,was him essentially laying out a

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clear standard.
And I think that, that we willsee firings happen because of this
standard.
Audio just dropped out.
I'm back.
So I was, I think I was when Igot cut off.
But I think that, you know, wesee him laying out the standard that
they're going to hold them to.
And, you know, kind of myimmediate response that I fired out

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on X was, you know, I want tosee the way oftentimes these PT tests
are administered by soldiersthat they command directly.
And so, you know, it's, It's.
It's going to be really hardto have a, you know, a first sergeant
or, you know, sergeant firstclass that is, you know, holding

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the clipboard and doing themeasurements to, to put down a failing
score for their boss.
So, you know, I was kind ofhoping for him to say, all right,
hey, you know, line up, walkout the door.
We're doing the PT test nowand have completely disconnected

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and trained people.
And, and maybe, maybe they didit, you know, and they're not trying
to, because, because you don'twant to embarrass and compromise.
But that's one of those thingswhere if you're trying to really
test the standard, we would dothose exercises, we come in and not
really even knowing what wasgoing to happen, and they'd say,
you know, grab your kit, moveoutside and be prepared for whatever.

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And then potentially thosethings go for 36 hours straight of
testing of your skills andthings like that.
So I guess kind of deep down Iwas looking for that as like, hey,
get your PT gear on.
We're going.
We're going to the gym andhaving, you know, some command sergeant
major fit types that aren'tgoing to be pushed around standing
there with the clipboard andline them all up and test them right

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there.
And, and, and, and, andliterally say, hey, you know, I got
it.
And that's.
When you fail a PT test.
Typically in the military,it's all right, we're going to give
you a counseling statement.
So we build the paper, paper record.
You failed.
This is, you didn't meet thestandard, you're going to test again
in 30 days or you're going totest again in 60 days.
And we need to see.

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So, you know, that, that kindof, you know, he talked very much
about holding the standard.
It's, it's, it's very hard practically.
And that's where I'm going isthinking through is how does that
practically get worked out?
And, and then there's a dozen.
My, my comment was, you know,you're, I think that these generals
will say, you know, well I'm,I'm old and I've been to war and

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I've, I've jumped, you know,so many times and whatnot.
And so I was saying, you know,it's likely not your combat injuries
that are preventing you frompassing a PT test.
It is likely laziness andinability to take care of yourself.
Before I got out, I hadnoticed that, you know, I had a lot

(11:44):
more aches and pains and Iwasn't sleeping very well and things
like that.
And I had to actually gothrough, I've talked about that before.
I've had to go through aprocess of realizing like actually
my behaviors.
I'm drinking more than Iprobably should be.
It's inhibiting my sleep.
I'm not really getting goodrest, my diet is kind of on the go.
I'm doing a lot more officework, I'm not working out as much

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and just kind of those basicskills and those basic habits that
equal health that you have towork at.
And, and so I reallyappreciated him saying if the, you
know, the Secretary of War canget a hard workout in every day,
so can you.
And, and that, I think thatthat's the thing.
And then you have, they havestaff, they have aids, they have

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their aids, have aids, youknow, so it's like get, get, have
somebody help you with mealprep and get a workout in and, and
you know, even just what we,we've talked about rucking and things
like that where you can haveweight, you can start doing your,
your, your staff briefs on themove and let's, let's create that
culture.
So I think it's epic to sayworking out every day.

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Height and weight standards.
Also the, the standard for allcombat arms being the male standard
and age adjusted too.
So that being, you know, the,the 20, the 18 or 17 to 21 year old
age group is the mostdifficult PT standard.

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And then it has a graduated thing.
So to say, hey, you're gonna,you're gonna have a, I think that
what's what it means is thatyou're gonna have to, to, to do that.
You know, you don't get to sayI'm 40, so I get a, a buy.
You have to still maintainthat elite highest level PT stuff.
And, and so I think that thatwill be really good for, for the

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force.
It's just, it's, it's, there'sjust too many excuses and, and, and
we need them, we need theexcuses gone.
And I think he said, you know,if, if you don't like it, find a
new position or move on.
So we'll see.
I was in the middle of tryingto this afternoon, trying to because
you sent me those tweets ofthe people zooming in on the audience.

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I think that there needs to bea, a lot more fat shaming of the
generals in the audience.
I did notice the Marine Corpsgenerals were kind of on the front
row and that that was probablyby design because one of my friends
at some Marine said all theMarine generals were probably like
finally.
And I would agree that, thatthat officer corps is probably more

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fit than, than the otherservices as well.
So.
But yeah, there's a lot ofimprovements on the horizon.
Hopefully they can, we cankeep those, those types of Secretary
of War in position.
And, and it's going to be along, A lot, A lot of what I'm hearing
is, and we saw this whenCharlie Kirk was killed, the, the

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active duty military that werecelebrating that on their social
media and, and you know, if I,if I saw you know, three or four
and it is not a general that'sdoing this.
This is going to be a captainor a sergeant first class or somebody
that is, you know, but, but itis indicative of there being, you

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know, Marxist stuff ingrainedin culture.
And I think that we're seeingthat the byproduct of, of essentially
forcing people to comply toillawful orders and those that would
actually not comply beingforced out.
And you know that that's goingto have a generational effect on

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the troops and all the agencies.
You know, even, you know,we're seeing it.
Just because you put certainpeople at the top doesn't mean that
culturally it just has totrickle down.
And it takes a while for thatinstitutional memory.
And it's good because youdon't want extreme swings.
That's why we have a civilianadvisory side to the military.

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All the services have that.
There's a civilian contractorsand civilian positions that maintain
some of the continuity.
But there, the downside ofthat is this institutional memory
and this towards the Negativethings as well.
It's harder to root that out.
So either way, I'm.
I got a big old bag of popcornand I'm smiling today, and I'm excited

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to see how that trickles itsway down.
Yeah, it was exciting tolisten to because I think everyone
who heard it has wantedwhatever CEO or whatever leader of
an organization or church thatthey're a part of to deliver the
same message.
Like standards are now here.
And these are the standards.

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These are, these are genderneutral, highest male standards.
And if women can't meet thosestandards, well, tough.
It's not that we don't wantwomen here.
It's that we want the best war fighters.
And the desire that I felteveryone was expressing was like,
wow, I wish someone would comedo that at my workplace.
I wish someone would come dothat at my church or my men's organization

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or whatever, to say we'velived in an era without standards
or where the standards havebeen so low and a low standard brings
down the high standard.
Right.
But if you raise the bar, somepeople are going to be cut out and
feelings are going to be heardand you're going to be called all
sorts of names.
But ultimately, if you have anorganization that's as important

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as the one that needs to wagewar against very serious, fit and
trained global enemies likethe Chinese army, you know, God forbid
we ever actually go to warwith China.
But they're not shy aboutshowing how fit and ready not only
their army, but their societyis in many ways.
And so this is, I think it wasmeant to send a message not just
around the world, but also to America.

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Standards are here now andthey've been gone for a while and,
but, but get used to it.
And I found that to be very inspiring.
Yeah.
And he also mentioned about,you know, the toxic.
Yeah, the, the toxic leadership.
And essentially what, what wasconsidered toxic is considered woke

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now.
And you know, or, you know, orwhat the, the woke was saying, if
you are, are advocating for astandard like this, then you're anti
women.
You know, and he, he did areally good job of saying, you know,
I'm not anti women.
We have great women serving.
You know, I, I think that froma position of, of a guy that's been

(18:38):
in combat, a guy that, I mean,I, I wrote, I've written articles
about having the best PT testin my platoon and Ranger battalion
and having a guy that we hadto drag out of on target and try
to get evacuated for highermedical treatment and, and specifically
kind of feeling like, oh, I'Mone of the best guys here.
My platoon, there's twoplatoons out on this particular mission.

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So, you know, it's like I'm,I'm doing pretty well and I, I'm
good enough, you know, andmaybe, you know, because I'm better
than everybody else around meand then realizing I was not when
I actually had to drag one ofmy mates out with full combat equipment
and you know, there's a coupleof us trying to get them out of the
city, you realize the physicalexertion and you know, and I was,

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at the time the PT test waspush ups, sit ups and a two mile
run.
And I was on the extendedscale, so max score of 300 and I
was routinely in the threetwenties, three thirties.
So you, every rep you get overmax is a point.
And then I think every sixseconds under the 13 minute mark
or whatever was a point.
And so I, I was running, youknow, a minute faster than the max

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around that and then getting,you know, 10, 15 reps over in push
ups and sit ups.
And so, you know, I'm gettingthis extended score and there's,
you know, people that getclose to 400, you know, on the test
that are just crushing it.
So, you know, and that's thething is I'm, I'm exceeding the max
standard and I'm on thebattlefield gassed in a combat situation.

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And so, you know, for me, I, Iintend to do a little bit of discussion
about the.
Even if a woman can pass at70% male aged up to 21, is, does
that still, is that stillsomething we should be doing?
And mostly because you and Iknow the spiritual side of this and
what happens to male hierarchyin an all male unit when you drop

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one woman into that mix?
And it's dangerous, it's ingrained.
And I can say it's not you,it's me.
You know, like 30 dudes actlike idiots when you drop one chicken,
even when you're or you haveto work extra hard in that climate
to override it.

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And because naturally you wantto get the door, naturally you want
to help them, naturally youdon't want them to suffer.
It's ingrained in how we aresupposed to be as mentally.
And so there's additionalresources required when you do that.
And if we really are saying wewant to win the war, we really, really
are saying it's about beatingthe enemy.

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I don't think that you can saywomen should be there fighting the
enemy because it fundamentallycompromises the complex algorithm
that is an all male unit thatis functioning and having to, you
know, I think it's AnthonyEsalen that talks about, you know,
when you have a footballlineup and the ability to take, take

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a hit and to, you know, be theleader of a particular play or, or
be sacrificial in a certainthing and even that much more on
the front lines of combat is required.
And it's just, you know, I canunderstand, you know, we had a cultural,
there's a cultural thing thathappens in Arab countries with the,

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you know, men and women thatis, you know, is not really good
how, you know, and anybodythat is trying to, you know, is this
one of the factors of these,you know, woke trans people demonstrating
for Palestine, you know, that,that they would not be getting treated
that way if they were in, youknow, Saudi Arabia or Iran or any

(22:28):
of these Islamic states.
But so I can see, you know,using women in a, in a very shrewd
way to engage with women inthat, in those cultures potentially.
So those are the ways I'veseen it done well.
But it's still really hard todo that when you're operating at
a forward, forward operatingbase and you're sleeping next to

(22:51):
the Blackhawk and you're, youknow, moving around and it's just,
it's, it's, it's tricky.
And so I think, you know, I,at least, far, far, far fewer numbers
than, than now and, and I, Idon't think just passing a 70% male
up to 21 age standard is good enough.

(23:11):
But we, but at the same timethe, the, the Secretary of War is
over the army as it is now andreform is not going to be overnight.
And, and, and, and you, youhave, he has the, the force that
he has now.
And so I think he's, he'sdoing a really good thing.
I mean it's, it's, it'sprobably significantly abrasive to

(23:35):
roll back the standard to allcombat arms, gender neutralized,
you know, age adjusted kind of thing.
I think that that's, that's ahuge step in the right direction.
So I'm not going to be writingthese and, and I'm not.
The world is flat.
How come we can't, you know,go back to everybody being crusaders

(23:57):
with on horses and you know,all the women with their wash buckets
or whatever.
Like it's, I'm not, not sayingthat, but I, I am still kind of crying
out for that a little bit morewith, based on personal experience.
Oh yeah.
I mean I think the idea that,oh, I'm Going to get in trouble for
saying this, but I'm justgoing to say it.

(24:18):
Well, you're going to get introuble online.
No, I know, I know.
I'm just going to say it if.
Okay, don't do this.
Okay, don't do this.
But I would like an answer to this.
Not from you, necessarily, butif a woman can serve in combat next
to a man, shoulder toshoulder, frontline combat, Right,

(24:40):
Meaning on.
On our side and presumably onthe other side.
Right.
So if women should serve inour military, presumably they should
serve in militaries around theworld, Right.
There's no, there's nofundamental difference between, you
know, the American militaryand whatever generic bad guy.
A military.
There's women on both sides.
So I'm serving side by sideand I'm supposed to shoot a woman

(25:01):
from across the battlefield, right.
I'm supposed to just kill themlike I would kill a man.
If she comes running at mewith a bayonet or whatever, I should
subdue, kill, destroy.
She's the enemy, right?
And I should treat her nodifferent from any man.
Okay, great, fine.
But like, so if that's thecase, then why is domestic violence
wrong?
Right, right.

(25:21):
And that's because that's the thing.
That's what the feminists say.
They have used domestic violence.
Obviously, domestic violenceis terrible, and I'm not suggesting
otherwise.
But if the idea is supposed tobe men and women are equal and identical
and that men and women shouldbe in combat side by side and they
should be fighting next toeach other, feminists have also used
domestic violence as thegreatest sin that men have ever committed.

(25:43):
But if men and women are equaland the same and identical, why is
that so bad?
Now, obviously, morally wefeel within ourselves that, yeah,
this is terrible and itshouldn't be done because our heart
is revolted at the notion of aman using his superior physical strength,
testosterone, to harm a womanin that way.
But you can't have it as onestandard on the battlefield and another

(26:06):
standard anywhere else.
What's the reason for that tobe different?
Now, obviously, we all knowthat it's wrong, but this is just
another double standard thatlives at the heart of these claims.
I don't think men should beharming women on the battlefield
or off the battlefield.
To be very clear.
I think everyone knows that.
But these sort of doublestandards, once you actually put

(26:26):
a pin on it, I think it'slike, well, we just want this because
we want to destroy everythingthat is, no matter how.
And that's been my questionabout these Push for, for standards.
Yeah.
And I think maybe even just aslightly cleaner version of that
is, you know, when you don't,you don't have the same.
At least I don't have the sameenjoyment of watching the UFC highlight

(26:49):
reels of women punch eachother in the face.
Same.
Same.
And, and I would say probablythere's, I may be, you know, we may
be in the minority.
Obviously, it's selling andpeople are talking about it and there's,
you know, some weird stuffabout that.
But definitely if you put a.
There's not women going intothe octagon with men ever.

(27:13):
And why not?
Combat.
Yeah, exactly.
And so it would not even be a challenge.
And so I guess those would bethe things.
And we, and you don't have,you know, I guess the, this is the
other thing is you don't havea minimum standard for the NFL.
You know, you have the best play.

(27:34):
And, and there's a reason whyyou don't have any women in the NFL.
And so my.
They are trying.
They are trying.
And when they do it, you know,I mean, even just in the, at the
college, the NCAA level,there's just humorous videos of those
kinds of things.
And then the, you know, theillustration of the under 16 soccer

(27:55):
teams whooping the World cupteam, you know, like these Venus
Williams realities, they,they, they, they are in all the elite
level sports and combat sportsand whatever.
And it's.
No.
And then you see the outragewhen a, or you should see more, but
you see the, the culturaloutrage when a dude goes in boxes

(28:19):
in the Olympics as a, youknow, in the, as a female or things
like that.
And so we know, like, we knowthe truth and, and, and those that
aren't are not beingintellectually honest.
And yet they're trying to saythey have the moral high ground and
they're trying to, I mean,you, you've done, you just did that

(28:40):
one video about, you know, theshaming that they try to do that's
just total, totally false.
And, and I think that that'sone of those things that there's.
There, we're in an era nowwhere you can just slough off the
shame that they're trying tothrow at you and just be like, are
you kidding me?
Like, look at what you havebirthed in our society.

(29:04):
We're done with this.
Like, I, I can actuallylegitimately shame the results of
your worldview and, and in.
And who's actually sufferingthe most?
Ukrainian refugees on the train.
They're suffering the mostbecause of your ideology and and
so when you say, I, I hatewomen and I'm, I'm a, I'm a misogynist,

(29:30):
I'm a sexist or whatever.
No, I, that Ukrainian womanwould be alive if I would have, was
on that train before God, youknow, and there were male sex, people
of the male sex on that trainthat, you know, so we, you know,
there are, there can be womenof both sexes in our society.

(29:54):
And that, you know, is, is,you know, the other downstream effect
of, of women being in chargeand running education and, and men
cowering to that.
And I know you, you, you deala lot of blows to that, that ideology
as well.
And I guess it's safe to saythat stuff is going away, at least

(30:15):
the institution that fightsour wars.
And that's really good news.
Yeah, yeah, it's okay.
Let's take your worldview andlet's run out the consequences all
the way.
Let's turn it up to 11.
And if you turn theconsequences up to 11, this is the
logical consequence.
This isn't speculation.
This isn't like we're going tocome up with some fantastic worst

(30:37):
case possible scenario.
It's just the logical set of conclusions.
Just like the logicalconclusion of feminism really is
transgenderism.
If men and women are the sameand equal, and like our bodies are
what's holding us back, whyshould you allow your body to hold
you back?
You can just be whatever you can.
Men and women are interchangeable.
That's the logical conclusion.
And you can see that now, justlike you can see the logical conclusion

(30:59):
of a lot of LGB stuff is the Tstuff and is the plus stuff, you
know, and now there are paperscoming out about this.
So these are the logicalconclusions of worldviews.
Right.
Which for some reason isinappropriate to talk about, but
I think it's absolutelyappropriate to talk about.
And it's absolutelyappropriate to say, okay, we've had
enough of that.

(31:19):
We've seen the consequences of that.
They've been really bad on alllevels, from the level of the individual
carving up their own body, thelevel of American society as a whole,
being essentially effectivelyborderless and losing, losing respect.
And actually, I'm sure thatthere are, there are various world
nations that are attempting toprovoke the United States or, or

(31:40):
poke through our defenses justto see where we truly are weak.
It's like, no, no, we're goingto shake all that off, and now we're
going to go back to beingsomething that might be politically,
socially, culturally unpopular.
But you know what we're goingto do?
This anyway and we can sloughoff the shame in doing that and have
a bounded, lawful and orderly society.
And yeah, that'll be reallyuncomfortable for a minute and any

(32:01):
organization that takes thaton, including the Department of War.
But after we get through thatperiod of transition, I think it
will feel much better.
Just like when we as mentalhave a period of being undisciplined.
Yeah.
There's a period of time wherewe establish discipline and it sucks.
But then we get into a rhythmand it tends to get much easier.
A nation is no different.

(32:22):
Yep.
And in, you know, I, we'vesaid that the, it's, it's particularly
sad day when the, thegovernment agency that is most tied
to the physical realities ofthis world starts to go woke.
And, and it was, it was, itwas in full swing in 2020, 2021 and
on.
And so having this, this starkof a course correction is, is super

(32:47):
exciting and hopefully that,you know, we do our part in as men
leading our families and youknow, men in the church.
You know, I think that, youknow, if you have a Christian secretary
of war proclaiming this kindof stuff, like, I think it's a very
good time to take up thebanner in the institution you're

(33:08):
in charge of and to use thatpoint that.
To that as.
Because the military is often,you know, consulted for its leadership
and consulted for its, itstechniques and its systems and its,
its hierarchy and itsimplementation and planning and all
these things.
So I think it's a good time tosay, you know, we, we should be rolling
out the leadership lessonslike crazy as we watch this.

(33:31):
And you know, a lot of peopleI think were very anti Hagseth because,
you know, he was not a formergeneral officer, he was a lower ranking
officer.
And you know, he's proving toat least be able to send the fire.
And then, you know, fromeverything that I can tell behind

(33:51):
the scenes, he's setting thosethings up to happen.
So I want to see men.
And that's.
I think I'm going to be usingthe, using that.
I copied the transcript of thespeech and I'm, I'm working through
it and I'm going to be usingthat as vignettes for probably at
least a week or two.
Calling men and church leadersand local governments and things

(34:13):
like that to follow hisexample, where they are right now.
Say more about calling churchleaders to follow that example because
I think, you know, you and Iare both part of a conversation that
this needs to be in the church.
Pete Hegseth is a faithfulBeliever Reformed CREC denomination
attends the DC Moscow church plant.

(34:34):
And so bringing this not justinto the Department of War, but also
into American culture morebroadly, but also into the church.
I think that's a veryimportant step, but also to do it
in the right way.
Yeah, I think first andforemost, as young men looking at

(34:54):
the problem, we have to, Ithink it's healthy to think about
what the generation before usdid well and, and, and, and focus
on a lot of that before we'recritical and then obviously focusing
on our own sin.
The Bible talks about thatremoving the log from your eye before.

(35:16):
So I, I think that there's atendency for us as younger men to,
to minimize the size of thelog because we're.
And, and I honestly thinkthat, you know, the, the, the thought
experiment that asks thelistener to do is think back to what
you thought, how you thoughtabout the world.

(35:37):
I'm 42, so if I think back ofhow I thought about the world at
32, I honestly think that thatguy was a fool, you know, Nate at
32.
But, but it, I was where I wasand I was growing in sanctification.
You know, my pastor alwaysbeats that, that we are being saved.
It's the not, you know, once, always.

(36:00):
I said a prayer when I was 14and I've been spiritually stagnant.
No, we should all be on this trajectory.
So if you can be humble andhonest as you look back at your own
sanctification, there is noreason to believe that sanctification

(36:20):
doesn't continue and thatwisdom doesn't continue, at least
at that same rate.
And if you look back andyou're not seeing a lot of difference,
you know, I would questionabout who you're hanging out with,
what your actual spiritualdisciplines are and whether or not
you're around people that canchallenge you and call you up to
a higher standard.
And you know, first andforemost, you don't need to have,

(36:43):
you know, a church that doesriverboat gambling, getaway trips
every, every weekend and, andsmoke cigars and like, it's just
hyper masculine.
Even though my church is, isvery much just full of hyper masculine
men, godly, submissive, quiet,peaceful women, lots of children.
And I can look at that and Ican be incredibly excited about that.

(37:05):
But there is a tremendouscapacity to lead yourself with the
word of God, with prayer, withworking out and all those kinds of
things.
But I would say that, youknow, as I can still consider myself
young man, a young man, but Iam, and I'm a deacon, but I am Potentially
in the, the track to be anelder at some point pretty soon,

(37:26):
if you look at the, the agesof the people in leadership now,
and we're bringing in youngerdeacons and we're training them.
And what actually happened atour church was we brought in, I think
we brought in a class of 11 deacons.
There was like four of us or 10.
And so they, they interviewed.
And I don't necessarily thinkthat they maybe thought all of them
were going to get approval.

(37:48):
So just like, let's, let's,let's do a big class.
Let's go through deacon training.
And then the elders weresitting with the men.
And I, my pastor and I thinkone of the elders even told me they're
like, these guys are awesome.
You know, and they're, andthey're 30, 31, 32, you know, like
coincidentally that age groupthat they're crushing it, you know,

(38:11):
and, and the elders sittingwith them and interviewing them and
training them and getting themready to, to take this office of
deacon, and they were justbasically incredibly surprised or,
or were just pleasantlysurprised of how wise these guys
were, you know, and, and, andI kind of was like, yeah, you know,

(38:31):
they're ready.
And so I guess that would bethe thing that the conversations.
I, I, I sat down with VirgilHurt, who is in our presbytery and
sponsored our church cominginto the CREC and was just talking
about how we, and he's like,we gotta, we gotta give these young
guys chance.
We gotta.
And he's specifically involvedin the, the press, the seminary to

(38:56):
train new pastors.
And so particularly that's hispassion is identifying younger guys
start training them andbuilding them up and making them
ready to be pastors.
But then, you know, we had aconversation about giving guys a
chance and realizing that,that, that you, you, you don't really
even hegseth.
That's probably a good thingto talk about.

(39:18):
He talked about makingmistakes, but in earnest after the
right things, you know.
And I think a lot of theseyoung guys get smacked around or
get relegated to like, you're immature.
You don't know because,because we're not 65.
You know, we're not 70.
We have, we haven't beenthrough to, to use that the metaphor

(39:41):
of, of war.
We haven't been through thechurch splits.
We haven't been through countmarriage counseling and, and you
know, these divorces thattragically happen or these people
leaving the church orslanderous actions happening at these
different, you know, andthere's a lot of institutional understanding
and knowledge that these olderguys have.

(40:03):
But I think, you know, I thinkthat is what I want to see as we,
you know, have this example inCharlie Kirk being, you know, in
his early 30s, early, early30s and boldly proclaiming that.
And I think that that wouldbe, I guess the thing that I would
want maybe if it's an olderchurch leader to, that's maybe listening

(40:26):
to say where are the 30 yearolds or even just the 26 year olds,
the 25 year olds in yourchurch that you can give responsibility
to, meaningful responsibilitythat they may actually screw up.
My joke is like, you know,we're going to give you some responsibility.
We want you to set up for thismonth's fellowship meal which is

(40:48):
making sure that there'senough chairs and salt shakers on
the table, you know, whichlike as a 26 year old man that is,
you know, and I haveimmediately I'm like, well I'm show
up with my five children andwe're gonna have them put out salt
shakers because like that'sactually, that's the level that fellowship

(41:09):
meal set up could be, shouldbe delegated down to.
And even we had our fellowshipmeals last Sunday.
There's like tables everywhereand we're like, we're.
The deacons got out of theirmeeting and I was like we don't clean
these tables up, our teenagersare going to clean these tables up.
And I think that, that, thatcan be the tendency for an older.
And I saw this in the military.
We're going to give you thisjust detail to build you up and give

(41:33):
you this.
And you're just like are youkidding me?
I'm going to go pick up brasson the range with like a couple privates.
Like this is thisresponsibility that's grooming me
for more like and I think thesame kind of things are happening
in the church where young menare like this is not responsibility,
this is not training me.
This is, this is busy workthat a, a couple 13 year old boys

(41:55):
can do.
And I'm 27 and I have fivekids or whatever like this.
Like, and, and I think theexamples would be, I mean I've, I've
seen Michael Foster executethis in, in, in empowering a deacon
to run his entire conference,you know, and, and set up stuff like
that and, and like that's abig, like to run the whole conference,

(42:16):
the branding, the ticketing,the, the all the setup.
So there is salt, salt shakersand table setup involved.
But, but you're actuallyhaving so many tasks now that you're
having to tap into uniqueskill sets and manpower and delegate
that down and communicate effectively.
And these are things I learnedin small business that I, you know,

(42:37):
more, maybe even in themilitary is, is how to try to effectively
communicate that standard.
And so I guess that's what Iwant to see in the church to.
And, and specifically hetalked about empowering leaders to
be able to make mistakes andthen that not to be damning of their
entire career.
There was this particularmoment he said that we're not going

(42:58):
to keep these, thesederogatory things in their file forever
that are going to prevent themfrom advancing.
And essentially that, that isscaring people from taking risk and
trying to help out.
And because they don't want toget this reprimand, that that's going
to flag them, they're notgoing to get promoted.

(43:19):
They're going to get kickedout of the military early.
So, you know, those kind ofthings are in the church too.
It's like, hey, like this guymight actually screw it up.
He might say something onlinethat is a little bit difficult.
And you know, I had thediscussion with Yuri on my podcast
recently, just saying, youknow, get, encourage them to action

(43:41):
and, and don't micromanage itand then say, hey, let's, let's sit
down in six months and let'stalk about the trend.
Let's talk about the, the,the, the, you know, kind of major
lessons learned.
We talk about the, the military.
We call that an after action review.
You know, it's, it's, it'ssetting aside time after you've done
an omission or a trainingexercise or whatever to just kind

(44:04):
of review what happened and,and specifically what didn't go well
and how you can improve those things.
And I just think we need that.
We need young men to be put.
But, but at the same time, we,as young men, we cannot be saying,
you know, out of the way,boomer, you know, with disrespect.
I think there can be somehealthy banter between the old guys

(44:27):
and the young guys.
And, and there is in our church.
It's, it's just beautiful.
It's awesome.
And, and I've been around ourelders and I'm making fun of them.
And hey, we want you to cometo the cigar circle with us.
We need, we need some wisdomdown there.
If you're not hanging outsmoking cigars with us, we're going
to go off the deep end.
And you don't want that, do you?
You know, so acknowledgingthat there's some real wisdom that

(44:50):
we need and then that the waythat they're making decisions isn't
necessarily because they'reclueless and lazy and, and are scared
of, of feminism, you know, or whatever.
Like, it's, there's actuallysome institutional long experience
and wisdom there.
But at the same time, I thinkthat you got to let us go.

(45:12):
You got to let us go take the city.
You got to let us take, takeChrist into the dark places.
And you got to empower thatand encourage us.
And you know, that's, it's,it's, it's helpful to have an older
man say good job, you know.
Yeah.
And, and you know, my pastor,I, I just, I, I'm in charge of security
at our church and I gave aspeech and, and was kind of addressing.

(45:36):
It was actually the Sundayprior to Charlie Kirk happening.
I, we had rolled out somesecurity protocols and so I just,
I went up front and, and I,and I kind of delivered a pretty
scathing kind of thing aboutguarding the church and guarding
your family and roles, and wetake it seriously and, and, and who's
involved in that.
And, and you know, Pastor Camsaid, good job, you know, and, and

(45:59):
that means a lot to me to hearmy pastor say that.
And I, I put a lot into, Imean, I actually like, had some bullet
points.
I ran it by my wife.
She helped me make it not asinflammatory and gave me some wisdom,
you know, and just putting thework in to, just to go and make a
talk like that, realizing thesecond and third order effects of

(46:20):
it and, and getting counseland then having somebody say, and
then even just having actuallysurprised a lot of, of women came
up and said thank you.
And my wife said, yeah,there's, there's a.
Unspoken fear and anxiety inthe church when these things are
happening.

(46:41):
And you, you, you became theface of that and spoke words of strength
to that.
And I think that I, you know,I, I don't know how that is on churches,
but I, I am having a lot ofconversation with church leaders
about the security side of things.
And, and one of the thingsthat I just learned, not mastermind

(47:03):
thinking through, but justwhen you're giving guidance and letting
those in your protection andcare know that you take it seriously,
there's relief from that.
Oh, thank goodness.
You know, Nate's taking careof this.
Thank goodness other men inour church are thinking about this
goodness.
They're training.
Thank goodness that they'redoing these security protocols with

(47:23):
our building.
And, and you know, those arethe things that younger men can do.
You know, this Is not thething maybe that the 21 year old
with one kid is doing, butthis is something definitely that
the 28 year old with three orfour kids and married or whatever
like is.
Is ready to do.
And you, you have to enlisthis help, you have to give him training,
you have to give him responsibility.

(47:45):
And we're, and that's withthis new d. The new diaconaten that
we have.
We have all these guys andwe're just, we are just making a
tremendous amount of progresson dozens of fronts because there's
guys like, I'm primary on that.
All right, who's alternate?
All right, give us a reportnext time.
And they're just going off andexecuting at that level.
And one of the things I kindof pushed was like, hey, we need

(48:07):
to be able to spend moneywithout having to do a everybody
vote.
You know, and so like, let's,let's, let's figure out what the
cap is.
Let's.
If it goes over this, then twopeople vote.
If it goes over this, it's everybody.
And then it goes to the session.
And we're not actually askingthe session is this okay?
We're drafting the policy,presenting it to them, and then saying,

(48:30):
if you don't like it, feelfree to shoot holes in it.
But this is how we're, we're executing.
And that's, you know, in alittle bit in the forgiveness versus
permission.
But also still, we're gonnatake bold action in a specific direction
and we're, we're well willingto hear it.
And I guess that's the otherthing I had to learn is, is I think

(48:53):
a lot of guys are looking forthat older guy to say, I think that's
a good idea.
You should try that.
You know, and, and he's maybenot saying, gonna say that.
Like, you're, maybe like,literally, you're.
It would be nice.
It'd be nice if, if an olderdude took five or six of y' all the
coffee.
What is.
What are you working on?
What are you passionate?
Who are you ministering to?
How's things with your wife?
All those things.

(49:13):
But even then, say, like, ifyou're getting bold preaching and
you're not necessarily gettingthe discipleship, what do you suppose,
what do you.
What do you think you shouldbe doing?
And then start doing it, youknow, I mean, I launched my podcast.
I try to get my elders tolisten to it regularly.
Most of them are like, what'sa podcast?
You know, because they're intheir 70s and, and it's, it's funny,

(49:34):
but even realizing like, hey,you know, like, I might not be getting
a weekly debrief from mysession about it, but I'm asking
them, I'm willing to hear it.
I want to submit my onlinepresence to their guidance and wisdom
and, and, and even going andasking them to do that initially
I knew I needed to becausewhen it was first recommended to

(49:58):
me, I was like, no, no, Idon't want them to, I don't want.
It was like, okay, no, thatactually probably means I should
submit to that and ask for it.
And, and, and if it'sparticularly spicy, I'll bring it
in and be like, what'd you think?
You know, and, and, and, and,and that kind of ebb and flow and
that tug of war and thosemistakes and confessing our sins

(50:19):
to each other.
The church is going to advanceand, and we're going to make a lot
of progress.
You said, right there at theend, you said the really important
word, which is submit.
And I think that it's verypopular in the Christian, reformed
or even right wing politicaldialogue now to be saying that women
should submit.
But it is much less popular tosay that men should also be in submission

(50:43):
to their body of elders, towise leaders, to men of another generation
who have acquired a lifetimeworth of experience.
And submission is uncomfortable.
It's really uncomfortable now.
No human authority is absoluteand you shouldn't submit in sin.
We're commanded not to do that.
But otherwise, if your husbandor if your pastor isn't in sin, isn't

(51:07):
in doctrinal error, that'spart of the Christian life.
And so what you've articulatedis you have your pastors, you have
your elders, you have thedeacons, you have the older fathers,
and then you have the young men.
And you have that entire chainof command.
And when that functionstogether well as a hierarchy, everyone

(51:29):
is getting what they need.
The men downline are givingrespect to their seniors upline,
and the men up the seniorsupline are giving opportunities and
approval and guidance andwisdom to the men downline.
And that may mean if you'redownlined, you don't get the green
light to do everything thatyou want to do, but it's incumbent
upon the older men to give it.

(51:50):
But for the same reason, youas a young man, not you, you like
the royal, you have to acceptthat maybe you're not going to get
the opportunity, butsubmission and respect and weight,
you will get the opportunity.
You will get that opportunityin a healthy, functioning environment.
Obviously, leaders can be cowards.
Obviously Leaders can behesitant to make any changes that
might disrupt their comfortlater in life.

(52:12):
That's a common thing.
But in a healthy, functioningenvironment, you know, everyone has
to recognize.
Every man has to recognize theneeds and responsibilities of everyone
else around them, and then it works.
And what you're describing tome sounds like something that works
imperfectly.
Of course every organizationis going to work imperfectly, but
when it works well, it createsa feeling of the Christian life that

(52:34):
I don't think can bereplicated as some guy just out on
his own, you know, listeningto podcasts or whatever.
Nothing wrong with podcasts.
But as a man, you're called tobe part of an organization, a church
organization that's largerthan you, that you have to then submit
to.
And, yeah, it's uncomfortable,but that's part of being a man.
Like, men do hard things,including submit to their elders

(52:55):
and to their.
And to their righteous authorities.
We don't see a lot of thatbeing talked about today.
Yeah, and ultimately, youknow, a wife is going to be better
at submission when she seesyou submitting, you know, and.
And it's more than just, I'mgoing to submit to Christ, which

(53:16):
for sure you need to do, butthat's kind of a nebulous thing in
the sense that what does thatmean for me today?
And what does that meanspecifically with this issue with
this particular kid?
And, and what really has tohappen is, is we have to bump up
against each other and we haveto sin against each other.

(53:37):
It's going to happen.
It shouldn't, but we should.
When we sin and we confess andwe go up, or when, you know, we.
What will routinely happen isone of our kids will sin against
another kid.
And the dad, you know, we hadactually had a dad.

(56:37):
You know, he talked to my kidpretty abruptly and roughly, and
I'm standing right there, andfor a second I was kind of like,
you know, no, I'm actuallyokay with.
He was acting kind of full.
I didn't.
My back was to it.
I didn't see it.
And he was just.
It wasn't like, hey, Nate, youknow, can you maybe talk?

(56:59):
He just like, you know, calledthe kid's name.
Yeah.
And.
And, And I was kind of like,well, you know, a little bit rough,
but, like, my, My son was.
Was being this way, and.
But then he was like, hey, Igotta apologize to your son.
I kind of was a little bit.
A little bit sharp, you know,and, and, and I.
For me, I don't.

(57:19):
I wasn't outside the thresholdthat I needed to be like, dude, don't
talk to my son that way, youknow, whatever.
I could, you know, like, it'san opportunity for me to be like,
no, like my son was in the wrong.
We're in a body of believers.
He saw it happen and headdressed it quickly.
It's not something I needed totalk to him about.
But then he was even like, Ineed to apologize, you know.
Yeah.
And, and then so he, he apologized.

(57:42):
So that, that other side of itis my sons seeing men confess up
the chain and down the chain,you know, in this sense that's submitting
to even somebody lower in thehierarchy in a sense to say that
I'm submitting to God's law,that's bigger than me, I violated

(58:05):
that.
And just because position, myposition is over you, hierarchy wise.
And I'm going to showsubmission to God's law by confessing
my sin to you.
And it doesn't make me aweaker leader, it actually makes
me a stronger leader and itshows that I'm in submission to God's
word and it's a demon.
And by my kids being in achurch with men like that, they are

(58:30):
getting the gospel reinforcedby others.
It's not just, oh, dad's faithand mom's faith and what do they
know?
But they're seeing the wholechurch and they're seeing families
walk that out.
And, and, and then anotherside of is just learning to like

(58:51):
let people wrong you and youdon't have to go and confront them
about everything.
Like there's an opportunity tocover in love and keep moving, you
know, and, and, and, and I,I've talked with people about this,
my pastor even specifically.
It's like we are socomfortable in church together.
We're not having to pretendwe're not, you know, those of us

(59:13):
that are, I think, reallygetting the full experience, we're
not having, like we'reacknowledging who we are in Christ.
We're acknowledging and thenwe're looking at each other hopefully
more and more every day.
Like Christ looks at us, issinless because of Christ's blood.
And that opportunity to walkthat out really tangibly in the day
to day and not let bitternessbuild up and have discussions about

(59:39):
it.
And when there needs to bestuff confronting, we can.
But by and large there's not alot of that happening.
There's a lot of confessinghappening and there's a lot of sanctification
and taking our own sin.
When you're with a group ofpeople that are all doing that and
serious about that.
It works, it works well.

(01:00:01):
And, and I think that thetendency can be when people start
to see your faults and, and beable to call you out about it, that
you need to run, you know, andgo find a new church and automatically
find this some minor doctrinalpoint that you've.
That's actually really been athing all along, just so happens

(01:00:22):
to coincide with the fact thatwe just called you out about something
sinful.
You just did.
But now this doctrine issue issuper big and I got to go to the
next church down the road.
You know, that's the tendency.
And I see a lot of, I've seena lot of people do that in our church.
And, and honestly, you know,I, I see little blips and little
screenshots into their life onsocial media or you're about the

(01:00:43):
marriage that is no longer athing or whatever.
And it's, it's tragic.
And, and that's theconversations that I try to do with
the ones that I have, the equities.
It's like, hey, man, this isgenerationally significant decision
you're making right now toremove your family from this fellowship
and to go to somewhere thatdoesn't know you as well, because

(01:01:06):
we love you still.
We know who you are, we knowyour faults, and we love you.
And, and, and you're gonna,and it's uncomfortable to have people
know your faults and to knowwho you are and to, and to be able
to see through the veneer,maybe that you're trying to throw
up certain days or whatever,but I think it's also incredibly
comfortable to have somebodycome up and be like, you okay, dude,

(01:01:28):
like, something seems, youknow, and just be like, this week
was hard, you know, and tellme about it, you know?
Okay, sweet.
Can I pray for you for realquick, Send a follow up text.
Hey, I'm, I'm just checking in.
How's it going?
And these kind of thingshappening organically among men,
and it's really hard to havethat happen if you're not there.
If you're showing up, you'rerunning out the door as soon as the

(01:01:49):
sermon's over.
You're not hanging outafterwards and letting your kids
sin against each other.
You know, it's, it's, it'snot, it's not good.
And, and I think that that's,you have to be comfortable enough
in who you are and whatdecisions you've made that even when
it's challenged, you're like,all right, let's do this.

(01:02:10):
You know, I want to I want to,we're about to go, you know, and,
and you know, even just withthe, the stuff on, on Twitter, like,
I started challenging thesedifferent positions.
You can just kind of see thepreciousness of these conclusions
you come to and not wanting toactually logically work it out and
to react a certain way.

(01:02:31):
And it's like, come on, dude.
Like, I actually agree withyou on these things, but these are
some things that I, you know,obviously not talking about.
I mean, it happens with thechurch too, unfortunately, on X,
these kind of things arehappening between pastors and, and
things like that.
And you know, I, I, I havebeen told that and I view and I've

(01:02:51):
talked to you about this is,is when I'm doing these interagency
inner, you know, Matt, USEmbassies and we got USAID and all
these different politicalagencies and things trying to figure
out how to work together andbuild coalitions and things like
that.
You know, I want to see thechurch doing that.
I want to see, you know,families which are essentially like

(01:03:12):
little combat units andsquads, you know, becoming, you know,
platoons of squads of squadsand platoons of platoons and all
coming and getting theirmarching orders from Christ and getting
the marching orders from a guythat's breaking it down for what
it looks like at their leveland then executing at their level.
And, and I was thinking aboutbefore, as I was listening to Heg

(01:03:32):
says thing, it's like, youknow, I don't think there's a lot
of Marine Corps general pokingat army general over here and making
fun of him and saying, like,because he's worried about his troops,
he has his area of operation,he has this thing that he's in charge
of and he's got to do adjacentunit coordinations.

(01:03:53):
You know, we're in overseasthere's even for special operations,
we're going to go into theseareas that a regular army unit is
kind of in control of.
So we're still going to coordinate.
Hey, we're doing a hit over here.
Are, do you have any guys inthis area?
We don't want any friendlyfire, like kind of those kind of
things.
But you're not talking to somebody.

(01:04:16):
Like, when Iraq andAfghanistan are going simultaneously,
you're not sharpshooting whatis going on in Kabul.
When you're in Kirkuk in Iraq,like, because the war is raging hot
in, in Kirkuk or in Mosul orthese places that you're fighting
and you have your troops andyou're engaged, like, you, you probably

(01:04:38):
don't even know what's goingon in Baghdad because you're in the
fight.
And I, I just don't, I don'tthink there, the, the spiritual battle
has a different flavor to itfor sure.
But I, I think I would reallylike to see commanders in their area

(01:04:59):
of responsibility focusing ontheir area of responsibility more
and less on somewhere that'snot their area of responsibility.
Because in your ao, if you'veset your troops up right and you're
following the principles ofwar, you can't concentrate your troops
effectively if you're alsoworried about this other city and

(01:05:21):
this other church and howthey're doing it, you know, and,
and, and, and like 100.
I think, I mean, I want to seethe woke pastors getting ridiculed
as much as the next guy.
I want to see the church purified.
And that's, you know,particularly the, that proverb of
people being led away by deathand, and lies to the slaughter.

(01:05:44):
Like those pastors and, andwoke preachers that are doing that
kind of stuff are the, the,they need the millstone around their
neck and you know, like, for sure.
But maybe that woke pastor inyour city is the one you should be
dealing with and you should begoing in and confronting that face

(01:06:06):
to face and trying to winpeople that are walking in the front
door to that church, you know,and, and, and, and you don't need
to post about it probably,like, you probably don't need to
videotape it.
You probably.
But that's hard to do, youknow, and in a sense it's not, it's

(01:06:26):
not glorious, it's not.
The limelight isn't there, youknow, and I want to use media as
much as the next guy.
I want to leverage that power.
I want to embarrass and exposethese lies.
But, you know, there arepeople in our city where we live
that need the gospel thataren't getting it and we need them

(01:06:46):
to get it.
And, and everything I worryabout making fun of or fighting with
a pastor in the next city isresources potentially that are, you
know, there's definitelyprofits and people are supposed to
do that.
But I, I, that's, I justfinished reading Jim Wilson's Principles
of War again immediately.

(01:07:06):
When Charlie Kirk got killed,I pulled it off the shelf and went
to Pursuit.
And, and I, I am excitedbecause Doug, Doug did a Pursuit
article a couple days laterand I had already sent the Pursuit
chapter to everybody on our,Our Men's Chat because I was like,
this is, I, I knew that thatis, it's the time for Pursuit Militaristically,

(01:07:29):
the Church militant needs tobe ready to chase down.
And, and the way that JimWilson talks about it, that's the
hard thing to do, because theenemy's kind of falling back to where
their food and ammunition andsupply depots are, and you're kind
of having to go out and, and,and, and chase them down and leave

(01:07:50):
the safety of where you are.
And he, and he talked abouthow there's very, there's been very
few times where pursuit hasbeen executed decisively.
And, and they've, in a sense,you don't necessarily just chase
them down.
It requires you maneuveringfaster and kind of getting behind
them and flanking them andhitting them, you know, in, in a

(01:08:13):
different way than justchasing them down.
But that, you know, I, so Iread the pursuit chapter, and I started
all the way back at thebeginning, and I went through the
whole thing, and I just thinkthat he, he talks about that there
are generals that don'tunderstand principles, and there
are privates that do.
And I, I think we have a lot of.

(01:08:36):
Of people that are generals inthe church that don't understand
principles of war.
And, and we have, and I thinkwe legitimately have young men that
understand that we should bepursuing right now.
We should be taking ground, weshould be going after it.
And, and the people in chargedon't understand that principle and

(01:08:58):
are saying, no, we, you know,we paid our building off and nobody's
really leaving.
We don't have any, reallyanybody wanting to get divorced.
And I think we're good, youknow, and, and so I, that's, I think
probably somewhere that older,younger generation is gonna say,
hey, look, we got it.
You ran a great race.
You brought us right up to theedge of the promised land, and there's

(01:09:20):
a lot of Philistines that needto be vanquished.
And I understand.
You're old.
You're not gonna do it.
Just give me that sword.
All right, I'm going to take it.
I'm going to, I'm going to goand handle this.
And you got any ideas andanything I should know before I go?
Okay.
And then.
And them saying to us, go with God.
Go pursue and use thespiritual weapons that we have to

(01:09:40):
free these captives.
And I want it to happen like Iwant it to happen now.
And, and I don't think it'sgoing to be Candace.
Oh, it's that.
That's at the front of the charge.
She's no Joan of Arc at all.
And, and so I don't think weneed Joan of Arc.
I. I think there's actuallylegitimate men that are ready to
go and all.

(01:10:00):
Yeah.
And.
And all the.
All y' all out there that arethinking you're Joan of Arc or you're
Dinah or you're Esther, justbe quiet and let the men handle it.
All right?
I'm sorry.
Just.
I agree.
You're so loud, the men thatare trying to do this can't handle
it.
We're ready.
Just.
Just be quiet.
I don't want to have to.
I don't want to have to fightyou on my way to slay these orcs

(01:10:23):
in Mordor.
You know, it's really.
I'm glad that you mentionedthat, because, you know, I was on
a. I was on a podcast yesterday.
I think it was yesterday.
I was a guest, and theinterview was about, you know, sort
of this rebirth of masculinitysort of broadly.
And, you know, at the end, Iwanted to tack on.
The podcast was ending, but Ifelt that I needed to tack on something

(01:10:45):
to what I had said.
The interviewer was a woman,and I felt the need to tack on, to
her, say, like, yeah, yes,Amen and hallelujah.
Men need to step up.
And there's no shortage ofpeople who are saying that.
But what it also means is thatwomen need to step back because men
will not compete at full speedwith women.
We just don't.

(01:11:06):
We just don't.
Because when you see a mancompete at full speed with women,
it's not even close.
And we talked about this earlier.
You can.
Whether you want to watch thehigh school boys or the pre.
The middle school boys beatingthe US Women's soccer team, or you
want to hear about.
I think it was Serena Williamswho was like, yeah, if I had to compete
in the men's tour, you know,I'd be ranked 100, 50th or something

(01:11:27):
like that.
She got in a lot of troublefor saying that.
She got in a lot of troublefor saying that.
Or you can see the.
I think it's the Chilean men'sSWAT team and the women's SWAT team
doing some.
Doing some physical training activity.
That was a competition.
And just watching the women,it was just embarrassing.
So men don't compete at first.
I've clipped that.
And it's.
It's just.
It's.
It's like, cue clown music.

(01:11:48):
And it's not your fault, you know?
No, no, it's not.
It's.
It.
And.
And the thing is, it's like,if I just.
Because I jump into the.
If.
If they're in the octagon andI jump in and I decimate this woman.
Nobody's praising me for that.
No, I don't.
And that's the thing.
I want to have to fight youfor this.

(01:12:08):
You know, you're, you're inthe spot.
Like, I understand that the,the, the in, in ultimately I'm always,
I'm, I'm, I'm all the timeGoogling, you know, first name, last
name, women, influencer, husband.
And I'm never surprised, I'mnever surprised at what that joker

(01:12:32):
looks like, you know.
Yeah, honestly, I'm like,yeah, that, that makes sense.
You know, like he is.
And, and, and, and, and men,actually lazy men are okay with that.
Like, of course, go ahead andmake some money for me so that I
can game.
And, and you know, whateveryou're doing, like this, there is

(01:12:54):
this, this like sliver of, ofstay at home husband.
I got a sweet gig.
You know, my wife, she's adoctor and she can make way more
than me.
And I'm not, I understand howit happens in certain situations,
of course, you know, like, I'mnot on this podcast to smear those
particular situations, but I,I, I want that.

(01:13:22):
There's, there are obviouslyexceptions, but the norm should be
going out there and, and, andproviding and, and getting after
it and, and not being lazy.
But, but again, like I said,it's, it's, I don't want to have
to duke it out with, you know,and, and it happens, you know, I

(01:13:42):
don't want to compete with you.
Yeah, well, and my, my answerhas been lately when, if a woman
gets a little bit sassy in thecomments, I just say, hey, ask your
husband, you know, like, I'msorry, like, I'm not, we're not gonna
duke it out here, you know,and, and it's, it's just I, I'm not

(01:14:03):
gonna have an emotionalargument right now, like, right in
the comments section.
I'm not gonna do it.
Like, I, I got, I got thingsto do.
And, and, and I think that's,you know, being more lethal in the
war of ideas around social media.

(01:14:25):
And I, you know, it's, I can't.
A guy with, you know, almost12, 000 Twitter followers is not
going to be the guy that'slike, this is, I figured social media
out, but I do think that thereis a lot of principles of war in
media that need to beunderstood too.
And I know I'm reading Rulesfor Reformers again right now.

(01:14:46):
And I know, you know, way thatDoug Talks about who should be doing
satire and specificallycalling those that do satire to be
the most in submission, themost in fellowship with people.
Because the tendency can be tofly off and go off the deep end when
you start engaging in some ofthese, these realms.

(01:15:08):
And so you need the communityeven more and you need the, all of
it.
You know, so it's, we're gonnalearn and we're gonna get better.
And I think that Yuri actuallysaid on my podcast, he said he encourages
everybody to be on socialmedia except for the, the people
that are particularly affectedby emotionally by seeing what is

(01:15:30):
out there.
Because he's like, there'sactually a certain type that just,
it just really messes them upto see what's happening and it makes
them anxious.
And so there's a, there's agood sized population.
He's like, I think that'sjust, you're not able to handle what's
there but for the massmajority of people, like.
And he said come up with aplan start.
And he's like, I don't want tomoderate your, your tweets, like,

(01:15:55):
but let's, you know, let'smeet in six months after you start.
And he encourages like, hey,just get on and post Bible verses
for the first 30 days.
You know, and, and you can getin a lot of trouble doing that.
You know, you pick the rightBible verses and you just, you don't
qualify them at all.
Like just the word of God.
I think that if we had, youknow, a hundred thousand Christians

(01:16:17):
just posting, you know, bakingsourdough and a line from Proverbs
31, you know, and just, justsimple beautiful photography.
A little bit of, you know,learning how to use the camera, a
little bit of editing maybeand then some scripture and just
blue.
The, the like just likepercentage wise more word of God

(01:16:43):
just going out with somebeauty attached to it that's unique
to you.
That's, that's how we start.
And then you know, I thinkthat that becomes a, a squad and
a platoon and it's, and I knowthere are other religions doing this.
The Mormons crush this game.

(01:17:05):
They, they have this, they.
I, I don't know.
I haven't seen it for sure.
I, I've observed it happenwhere, where a guy with hundreds
of thousands of followerstakes a guy with 1300 followers and
gets him to 20 or 30, 000 inlike two weeks, you know, by just
doing a couple posts.
And, and we need to be doingthat, but we're too busy fighting

(01:17:26):
about baptism to do that.
You Know, like, we need to beencouraging each other, building
each other up, having thesediscussions offline and uniting in
coalition in the same direction.
Because I would hope thatsomething like transgenderism or
the assassination of CharlieKirk or these, these major things

(01:17:50):
could galvanize us into thesecoalitions that just, just lock shields
together and just mow over theopposition spiritually and intellectually,
and then, you know, just thecapacity to generate like, they,
like.
One of the reasons I thinkthat the, that the left is so mad
about Charlie Kirk is like,who doesn't look at that family photo

(01:18:14):
and see the beauty of thatfamily unit?
You know, like, like it's,it's the whole thing.
It's smiling husband,beautiful wife, you know, joyful
children.
It's literally the nuclearfamily as God intended it, taking
dominion for his glory.
And you, and you can't, youknow, it's, you can't compete with

(01:18:35):
the, the aesthetic of that.
The way that they're, I mean,look at their women.
They are, they are unhappy,ugly over trying to be men.
Yeah.
They're, they're singingmasculine tunes and the, they're,
they're.
It's, it's, you know, it's,it's not right.
And, and we can, we can whooptheir butts.

(01:18:57):
If we just got together, youknow, formed a squad and figured
out, you know, the.
Jim talks about the decisivepoint, you know, ground that we can
gain that we can takedecisively, that will actually move
the needle.
Something that is, is it.
We don't know.
We can take it for sure.
It's ambitious.
It's going to require us totrain, it's going to require us to

(01:19:18):
plan, it's going to write usto have surprise and execute well.
But we do those sequentiallyand we, we combine those with other
decisive points of otherbelievers around the world and we
just start strategicallytaking them down.
And, and, and, and there'speople that do that in our circles
really well.
And, and, and they still miss,they still mess stuff up.

(01:19:40):
They still step in, in, in.
They put their foot in theirmouth and certain.
Because it, because they're,they're human beings, you know.
Right.
And there's not grace therefor that.
There's not, you know, it isthere, it is there.
I'm not, I don't want to overgeneralize what's happening, but
I, I say, I say all the time,you know, to people in person, I'm

(01:20:03):
like, no wonder we're gettingour butts kicked when I see certain
stuff happen.
No wonder, you know, like,this is why we can't unite, we can't
get, figure out the decisive point.
We're in.
In again, you, you have tohave, as a soldier, you have to have
mastered the basic individualsoldier tasks.
And those individual tasks getcombined in a fire team of three

(01:20:26):
other guys.
And you got a saw gunner andyou got a grenadier and you got a
rifleman, you got a teamleader who's got a Ranger tab and
it's been in for two and ahalf years.
And he's the guy that'stelling you flank right or flank
left, you're all doing PTtogether and you're using all these
skills together.
And, and you're in yourengaging in warfare.
And so we need to beidentifying what those things are.

(01:20:48):
And we are, I mean, it's happening.
Like these are the things thata man as, you know, or in our house
as, as homeschooling, theseare the things you need to be able
to do before you leave ourhouse, you know, and these are the
things that you need to, theactual tasks you have to be capable
of and competent in and, andthe number one person that instruct
you, that is your mother orthis particular task, your father.

(01:21:10):
And you need to be listeningwhen we're talking to you about this.
We don't care what you know,we're telling you what you don't
know.
And this is going to prove andso and, and, and, and that is happening.
But I think that probablywhere it's not, it's breaking down
as family to family and churchto church and, and locally, you know,
there's, there's opportunitieswith other churches, I think, to

(01:21:34):
just really unite and, andtake, take some ground.
Like, let's go.
You know, I appreciate thatyou mentioned the emotionalism.
And I want to make sure, Iwant to, I want to get to this.
I want to make sure that wehave time to do it.
But I think one of the thingsthat's dividing our particular camp
so heavily right now is notnecessarily emotional women, but

(01:21:54):
emotional men who responded tothe Charlie Kirk assassination not
with humility, but rage, thatthey surrendered to their flesh,
they surrendered to theiranger, that which was barely covered
to begin with.
And now it's just kind of, andnow it's just kind of out there.
And that's men's emotions.
Like there's a time and placefor anger.
There's a time and place forsadness and grief and even despair.

(01:22:18):
These are part of the naturalhuman experience.
But we're called to overcomethem in Christ.
Except for men don't seem tothink that their anger is something
that needs to be overcome,that needs to itself be put into
submission.
And one of the things thatI've seen around the assassination
of Charlie Kirk isemotionalism that's expressing itself
in the form of, well, there'ssomething larger going on behind

(01:22:40):
the scenes than what actually happened.
Like, it can't just be assimple as one, you know, transgender,
ex Mormon, furry shooter on a rooftop.
It's gotta be some larger conspiracy.
Whether you involve Israel orwhatever, is usually seems to be
the place that it's going.
And that is a surrender totheir own anger, trying to make.
Trying to validate in theirown worldview the enemy that must

(01:23:02):
be behind it all.
And I've done a lot of work onthat enemy that's behind it all.
But particularly, we don'tneed to talk about that here.
But particularly talking aboutthe scenario of the shooting itself.
And so you with your SpecialForces experience, you with your
ballistics experience, you onthe battlefield, treating wounds,
delivering them, you have aparticular perspective into this

(01:23:24):
event.
Now, I don't have a problemwith people asking questions, of
course, ask questionscompletely, fine.
But you have to be prepared toaccept the answers.
And I think some men'semotionalism is leading them to a
place where they're unwillingto accept the answers, to submit
to reality, to submit torighteous authority that's trying
to tell them, no, this isexactly what happened.

(01:23:45):
And I'm sorry it contradictsyour worldview, but this is how it
went.
And so I know that the you.
You mentioned earlier that youhad been an exchange, in an exchange
with someone on Twitter, sortof a back and forth with their perspective
on the shooting.
And you went and did someresearch yourself.
Do we have time to get intothat right now?
Because I would love to hearyour perspective if we do.
Yeah, I think even beforesaying that, like, you know, Christian

(01:24:10):
men and then, you know peoplethat aren't submitting to Christ,
and I guess it would say too, is.
Is how.
How are you.
How am I supposed to beconfident that you are submitting
to Christ when you're actinglike a. Online and elsewhere?
I'm sorry, like, let's go, Pastor.
Forgive me, but like you, you are.

(01:24:33):
You are not displaying theemotional regulatory regulation that
a man should have.
You know, you are notdisplaying a quiet confidence in
your abilities, because that'sessentially what this is.
Is.
Is.
Is in.
In if.
If deep down as a man, youknow that you're a sinner and that

(01:24:56):
you.
It doesn't matter what you did.
Christ paid for it.
It's, you're, anything thatyou are able to achieve in this life
are going to be minor scraps.
And if, if, you know, we don'thave an example in Charlie Kirk,
like none, like very fewpeople in the history of the world

(01:25:19):
will have the impact he did.
And he is still just a smallpiece in God's, in this cosmos, in
this larger game of what Godis knitting together.
That's right.
And, and, and, and you know,I, I, I believe the government is,
is grossly incompetent and I,I served in the highest levels of

(01:25:41):
Army Special Operations andthings happened that would blow your
mind and it's the most eliteand it can come back to just poor
radio calls, poorunderstanding of where other people
are on the battlefield andeven just coming away, like sometimes
tragic things happens andsometimes we narrowly avoided tragedy

(01:26:06):
and we're like, like we couldhave been, it could have gone so
much worse and we actuallywould have deserved it to go that
much worse.
And it didn't.
Praise, you know, for mepersonally, as a Christian, praise
the Lord.
I'm still alive, whatever.
And, and so taking thatknowledge of Army Special Operations

(01:26:30):
and then moving that to thePost Biden Justice Department, post
Biden Bureau of Investigation,like just appointing a new director
and a new new deputy andsending out a couple memos and, and
being at the helm for eightmonths doesn't roll back the kind
of like institutional erosionand complete destruction of, of the

(01:26:56):
rule of law that happenedprior to this.
And, and, and all the peoplethat got appointed are flawed human
beings that are coming withdifferent worldviews and different
experiences and, and so, butthey're still being put in charge
of this agency that has allthese people that were, you know,

(01:27:18):
the week prior, the peopleBiden's administration was promoting,
you know, or the people thatwere controlling the auto pen, if
you will.
So like, I think it's okay andit's perfectly acceptable to look
at the situation and say wegot a long way to go.
Just like we said at thebeginning of this podcast, we got

(01:27:38):
a long way to go.
Institutionally, governmentand, and we as citizens, it's okay
to demand that.
It's okay to say Romans 13requires you to bear the sword against
evildoers to protect me and my family.
And I can demand that,righteously demand that from my leaders.

(01:27:59):
It's okay.
And, and, and I need to bevery loud and vocal about it.
But you know how it's, thenoise is, it's going to get mixed
and it's going to get muddledif I am throwing in a bunch of tinfoil
hat stuff.
That is speculation.
We have to be careful aboutthe more intellectually honest and

(01:28:22):
rigorous we are with ourcommunication in this way.
You know, like I, I, I, thereare got people that in, in, you know,
one of the exchange that washad on Twitter with me, the guy said,
you haven't given me specific examples.
And I, and I was, I typed likea quick response and it's like yes,

(01:28:44):
because it was a friend ofmine that got shot in.
You know, he basically talksabout how, and you know, six inches
of flesh and if it was a 36,it would definitely go out the back
and this and that.
And I was like, you know, theballistic comparison between a.30
06 and AK47 that shot my buddyin the leg, you know, but the bullet

(01:29:04):
didn't come out and I saw theentry wound and it, it hit, it clipped
the femoral head and the hip,you know, and, and so, you know,
I don't have to give you givethis guy a full blow by blow of everything
I've seen for it, for whatI've seen to actually, actually have
happened.

(01:29:25):
And I think that, you know, westart to get in this position because
we have so much informationthat we have all of it in front of
us and we get to make the call.
There's so many people thatare getting on X and you see it happen
right away.
I mean, one of the things Isaid about this guy is like, I appreciate
you post this video, you know,12, 14 days after you did a lot.

(01:29:48):
And I appreciate guys likethis because he went through a ton
of information and edited itand did it in a very methodical way
that I don't have to now go do that.
I get to start with his one hour.
That probably took him a week.
I mean he's probably beendoing it continuously since Charlie
Kirkus and he's called, he'sactually gotten videotape that wasn't

(01:30:12):
publicly available from peoplethat were there.
He's freeze framed, he's doneaudio analysis of, of and he's, and
he's done the same withButler, Pennsylvania.
So this guy's a smart guy.
And, and, and that's even whatI said.
Like I said, hey, I watchedthe old video, I'm not convinced,
blah blah, blah, blah.
And he responded and, and he,and he didn't ask like well what

(01:30:33):
did you disagree with me on?
And let's talk about it.
And I said I actually, yes, Ihad be happy to come on and talk
with you.
And I got it like, this is Twitter.
You don't have any idea who I am.
You don't know that.
I, I was a special forcessniper and I, I've done tons of,
I was, I haven't, haven't doneoverseas sniper missions, you know,

(01:30:55):
full disclosure.
But I, I've trained, I thinkit was about a year and a half I
was a, in a sniper role.
And so my entire life was, wastraining in, you know, long distance
engagement, short stuff likesubsonic rounds, large range rounds.
I've gone on, you know,traveled around the US to different

(01:31:16):
facilities.
And so, you know, but I alsosaid I'm not a gun nerd.
Like I couldn't tell you right now.
The grain size bullet, thegrain, the powder.
I understand that because I'vehad to do ballistic calculations.
And then also I have a networkof guys that I can call up.
So when I watched this video,I called him, I called my friend

(01:31:37):
and say, what do you thinkabout this?
You know, not.
And he just basically waslike, hey, I've seen two to 3,000,
you know, either CAT scans ofor actually personally worked on
guys.
And when a bullet enters thehuman body, you don't know what's
going to happen.
Yeah.
And like just, just, it's,there is so much going on with muscle

(01:32:00):
and vasculature and, andfascia and bone that it doesn't make
sense what a bullet does sometimes.
So that little, you know,that's a pretty significant testimony
by a guy that's still in and,and, and is not going to be talking
online about it, that has beenin, you know, the war on terrorism

(01:32:23):
for 20 plus years and stillactively working.
And he's saying, you know, Idon't buy it'll go through every
time.
I don't care how manyballistic gel stuff that you show
me.
I don't care how many timesyou say, look at this, what it did
to a deer hide.
It wasn't Charlie Kirk's neck.
Like it wasn't the actualbullet that killed him.

(01:32:45):
And so what I, what the guybasically concludes is, is it's not
a, you know, you've seenthere's explosive bullets, it's a
weapon in the crowd, it's closer.
And I believe he kind ofconclusively says, look, it's a high
velocity round that hits himin the neck and he breaks down the
angles.
And I probably can, this is agood time to jump over.
I can share.

(01:33:05):
Bring it up.
So this is, this is a programcalled Sketchup that I use for construction.
So it actually has a capacityto import the, so I imported Utah
Valley.
I was able to put a box on theterrain and I was actually able to

(01:33:26):
import all these buildingsdirectly from Google Earth.
And what, what, what wasn'tthere was if you can kind of see
like it, the buildings werelaying flat on the terrain.
So this, I actually didn'tmodify this, these buildings here,
but I, I went ahead and youcan see in Google you can see from

(01:33:48):
my construction background youcan see in Google Earth you can see
these steps.
So essentially I'm able to saybased on building code what the height
of this platform is based onthe number of steps.
And so I did that as basicallyI, I draft drew this as like that
upper platform and essentiallythat's the baseline if you look at

(01:34:09):
it where all these buildings are.
And this building is like 16foot four.
And I did the, there's astairwell in the Google Earth right
here too that I was able tocount the steps.
And so this building that Iimported from Google Earth was plus
or minus a couple inches fromwhat I got based on these stairs.

(01:34:29):
So just in a few minutes I wasable to basically, even though they're
not on, it's not on GoogleEarth, it's to scale.
So I, I, I figured out whatthe level of the sidewalk was here.
I moved all the buildings inthe compound up to that level based
on the steps from, that's fromwhere Charlie was sitting.
And then I, and then I wentand I looking at the imagery, there's,

(01:34:52):
there's bricks, 4 inch bricks.
And it really looks like theupper levels that we see at Utah
Valley are about the same.
So I just kind of extrudedthose and essentially this is where
they, the shooter was shootingfrom the outcropping.
So I, I, I basically used whatGoogle had and then I just basically

(01:35:14):
added identical floors.
So there is a possibility thatthere is, you know, some discrepancies.
But looking at the imagery andyou can take Google Earth and kind
of drop some, there's somepeople have done some 3D.
You can kind of look and saylook these, these levels kind of
all are about the same.
You know, this is at the levelthat I can, you know, basically using

(01:35:38):
a little constructionknowledge and figuring out the actual
height.
And what I found out was, youknow, I drew this triangle which
is the, the trajectory of kindof where they say the shooter's position
was.
And I brought it all the waydown to skeleton here sitting that
has the anatomy of, of theneck and essentially where I feel

(01:36:01):
breaks down they said that theconclusion was, hey, from the guy
was, hey, it hit to the sideof his neck and it maybe it clipped
these bones.
And he's actually reallyanatomy gifted too to talk about,
you know, the different partsof the bone in the neck.
But he's basically saying,hey, it, if anything it entered here

(01:36:21):
and it only clipped a little bit.
There's no way that thislittle bit of bone here stopped it.
It should be a massive exit wound.
And essentially they'resaying, hey, it had to be.
It couldn't have been fromthis position because if it was from
this position, you know, I'msorry, I'm just jumping around here
a little bit.
But.

(01:36:43):
Get back over here.
If it was from this position,then it would have gone right through
his neck and it wouldn't havestayed in his body.
There would have been amassive exit wound.
There would have been a smallentry wound kind of thing.
What, what I'm basically wastrying to say is, look, I, I agree
these angles, he, he did thedistance, my distance was just a

(01:37:04):
slight, slightly farther thanwhat he came down to is a little
bit bigger.
I used the protractor.
It's like nine degree.
Not, he said nine degrees.
I got like 10.1 and 10 pointsomething for the, the downslope.
So his.
He's basically was saying,hey, we had.
There's some guys in the crowdthat are right here that started

(01:37:25):
pointing this way.
And he's trying to say, hey,it had.
It probably should have comefrom this angle because this angle
would have been more straighton into the neck and would have hit
more of the bone that wouldhave stopped it.
So that basically that's hiswhole thing is it couldn't come from
right here.

(01:37:45):
The guys in the audiencepointed this way.
Two guys.
This angle is, is steeper anda sharper angle.
And that's probably a second shooter.
And he's doing that becausethere's a little bit of messed up
audio.
And they're thinking thatthere was.
It's not matching up.
And last time I talked, hesaid that he thinks that, that it's,

(01:38:08):
it doesn't match up like itdid in Butler.
And he's sketchy about that.
And, and basically what I'mjust trying to say is, is like it's.
What you're arguing is such amarginal difference angle wise then
that you know that whatactually when anybody that knows
when they shoot like the, the,the angle that it enters the neck,

(01:38:31):
even just if you, if he placedthe entry wound Slightly wrong on
the neck even.
It could have hit the spinalcolumn and stayed in his body.
And I, I guess I'm just sayinglike you're saying definitively because
he didn't get an exit wound,that it had to be a farther, a steeper
angle from the trajectory intohis neck.

(01:38:54):
And you're also saying that ithad to be steeper.
But I, I actually am notgetting that really that much steeper
of an angle from this spotover here as this because it's literally
just kind of the same angleout, but it is a, a steeper shot
to the center of the neck.
And I might basically, I'mjust trying to say is like, hey,

(01:39:15):
it could be that it enteredjust slightly more around the circumference
of his neck.
It didn't enter over here.
It could have entered a littlebit farther.
We don't have, I don't knowthat, that the definitive placement
and that's very likely whensomebody's shooting.
Having a 1 inch deviation tothe left or right is, is very easily

(01:39:39):
caused, you know, at thatdistance, just the most subtle movement.
And then they're saying, heyguys, pointed over here.
But we also, the video, weknow that Tyler Robinson or at least
ran over.
My computer's lagging here.
He ran over.
There's like a, I haven'trendered this.

(01:39:59):
And then he jumped, jumpeddown off the building.
And I just am kind of like,well maybe he was already running
like this a little bit.
And the people were still,they could see him running.
And so they're pointing.
After he took the shot, he ran.
And then they also mentionedsomething about the shadow going

(01:40:20):
away and that they thoughtthat the footage was doctored.
But, and I haven't gone outand done this, but it was a really,
is a white TPO roof or EPDMroof that is just really like reflects
and is bright with the sun.
And they're like, hey, theshadow went away as soon as he went.
And white should reflect the shot.

(01:40:41):
The shadow should be morevisible on white.
But I, I, I, you know, I, Iplan on trying to run out if I can
to one of our projects thathas that really white roof.
But one of the things thathappens when the sun is hitting that
white roof is actuallyreflecting the light a lot.
And it's, you can get, youknow, sunburn and, and stuff from
standing on it more becauseit's like being at the beach or something.

(01:41:04):
And I kind of just, that'sjust theory.
I haven't gone out and proved it.
But they're basically like assoon as he went right over the white
part, his shadow went away.
And I'm like, it could be assimple as just like a bright.
The sun reflecting and it's,it's, you know, the light coming
off of this really hyperreflective white roof.
And so I guess I just.
When, when they do a lot ofthorough analysis, but then make

(01:41:26):
like a slight.
I.
What I think is like literallya simple thing of like it maybe it
just entered his neck.
And even if it did not enterhis neck farther around, it could
easily have done something crazy.
Because you're not saying hegot shot from the back.
You're not saying he got like,your analysis is literally just.

(01:41:47):
I mean, I want to see if I canget the protractor out here and say,
you know, he's, he's literallysaying, you know what?
I want this degree measurementdifference is from, from.
From here to there.
He's saying like just another10 degrees or 11.7 degree difference.

(01:42:11):
And so I guess I'm just kindof like when, when, when the jump
is second shooter, 11 degreesdifferent and there's no way this
angle would have come out.
And so basically you'redenying that when a bullet enters
a human body, it does crazythings, which I know for a fact it
does crazy things.

(01:42:31):
And I have a friend that has alot more experience that says it
does crazy things.
So I'm basically, I'm willingto accept that he may have gotten
shot from here and it just didsome weird stuff because bullets
do that than to say there's asecond shooter.
And I.
It's.
It's very possible that, thatthere are nefarious actors involved.

(01:42:55):
It's very possible that, thatthe government is not being as truthful
about it.
But at the same time, why doesthe FBI have to tell all of us what's
going on in the investigationright now?
Like what, what makes.
I mean, I can understand, hey,we don't have trust in the institution.
You need to be moretransparent if you're wanting to

(01:43:21):
get this.
But at the same time, maybeCash Patel's like, screw you.
I'm prosecuting this witheverybody I got, and I'm going to
roll it all out when we got it.
You know, and, and so you know this.
I distrust the government.
What happened with COVID andwhat they did is reprehensible.
And a lot of those people arestill in dod, still in doj, still

(01:43:43):
in the FBI.
And they're, they're.
They're flying below the radar.
Some of them have gottenwashed out.
But that same.
Those same people that wouldsell their friend down the river
are still in key positions.
It's.
I'm not.
Like I said, I'm not denyingany of that.
I'm just saying, like, it's.
It's not as.
You know, I'm not getting Israel.

(01:44:05):
There was a Mossad agent, 11degree difference.
And that's the only way thatthis could have happened.
I'm just like, it could stillhave gotten from this angle.
It could have done somethingweird when it entered the body.
A little bit differentplacement on the neck and it still
could be that guy.
And.
And I don't know, you know,Like, I only know I literally.

(01:44:27):
I also like to think that it was.
I got this one video sent tome from a friend.
It was really well done.
I was able to you to spendabout two and a half hours total.
I got on some pretty crazyTwitter spaces and listened to some,
you know, some.
It's also pretty funny for meto listen to some military guys give

(01:44:49):
their pedigree and why theyshould be on the space and saying
these things.
And I'm like, I don't know ifyou're as amazing.
You kind of sound.
You're trying to sound likeJason Bourne.
I guess I can.
I can detect a lot of subtlehumble or not so humble overstatements

(01:45:12):
of people's capabilities.
And.
And I'm not getting that forlike this.
That's one of the reasons whyI really like this guy is.
Is I was trying to pull hisname up because I think he's.
It's.
He's not off the deep end.
He's Very straightforwardapproach to it.
The best video I've seen on it.
It allowed me to not go downthe rabbit hole with a bunch of idiots.

(01:45:33):
I was like.
It was empirical and just.
I just kind of feel like atthe very.
The last 10 to 20% of hisanalysis is it's.
It's based on ballistic gel and.
And it.
Not a real human body.
It's based on deer.
Not like.
And it's just.
I. I am.
I will accept that it's verymuch in the realm of the possible

(01:45:54):
that it entered the neck andstayed in the body, hit the spinal
column, did some weird stuffand it.
But there's a lot of otherthings that could be true too.
I appreciate all that and.
And I've sort of three thingsto say in response.
First is that I haven't talk publicly.
Gun violence has touched myfamily as well.
And so I am aware that from anautopsy report that a bullet can

(01:46:19):
do strange things when itenters the body.
So I'll leave it there.
Perhaps someday I'll say moreabout that.
But I know firsthand that,yeah, that's just true and people
probably wouldn't believe me.
The second thing is there's away in which the conspiracy mindset
has begun with the conclusionthat whatever the government is telling

(01:46:40):
us cannot possibly be true.
And that's a flawed conclusion.
You can doubt the capability,the integrity and the truthfulness
of the government.
You are perhaps encouraged todo that.
But if you begin with theconclusion in mind that, well, this
definitely can't be true, thenyou're just going to seek out information

(01:47:03):
that proves your point, whichis not exactly how you do research.
And the third thing, and I'mnot saying that this is that either
of these apply to the man thatyou're speaking about, whose name
I don't recall either.
But the third part is thatwhat I've seen largely since the
assassination itself is aconsistent attempt to tie it to Israel.

(01:47:24):
No one else, no one's sayingit was Qatar or China or whatever.
It's like, it must be Israel.
And we're going to pull up allthis information about potential
conflict and heated meetingsand resentment and all these things
that has turned out to be somuch fluff that it isn't actually
there.
So the last two, that there'sa pre assumed conclusion that what

(01:47:48):
the government is sayingcannot be true.
Right.
And so the third part is, andtherefore it must be Israel.
That's the problem that I'm seeing.
Well, this guy Chris is.
Chris Martinson is his nameand I think Peak Prosperity is his
organization.
But he said anytime that thereis a bunch of stuff coming into the

(01:48:11):
web that is trying to kind ofdiscredit and make counter arguments
and things like that, you gotto be suspect.
And, and I'm also kind of likefair or the most significant political
religious assassination in ourlifetime just happened at the same

(01:48:32):
time.
Internet freedom has been un.
Like Elon Musk has taken theshackles off.
So could it be that.
Could it be a ton of userswith a lot of emotion and a lot of
a mixed bag of experiencesjust flooding the.
That more than like, no,there's a bunch of, you know, whatever

(01:48:54):
the.
I can't remember the Israeliunit that's like the hackers.
Oh yeah, it's a different one.
They, they do a lot of venturecapital stuff and all that.
But it's got to be a basementfull of those guys doing these complex,
you know, are they doing that yes.
Is, are all the, are therestate actors online trying to swing

(01:49:15):
elections, trying to influence 100%.
But again the, when you saidlike we're going to go, we're going
to start by diving into thedeep end and then trying to swim
back towards land, that kindof person generally, I, I think that
you can start on land and kindof methodically and be like, oof,

(01:49:39):
like we're way out in theocean now.
How do we get here?
And I guess that's more theapproach that I am.
I'm a little bit less, I meanpeople have said we got to get you
more conspiracy.
You know, whatever.
What's going to have to happen.
I'm just like I'm, I just, Iguess have just seen how incompetent
the government can be even inelite military units before.

(01:50:00):
I'm like they pulled thisthing off without anybody knowing,
you know, I mean and that'slike the moon landing kind of thing.
Like how does that, if itreally didn't happen, how does that
stay a secret with how manypeople had to pull the fake one off?
You know?
Sure.
Like does it saying that it'snot possible.
I'm not saying but, but like,like people talk, people make mistakes,

(01:50:20):
people slip up.
And God actually likes to havewhen people mean things like the
COVID thing for bad.
He likes flipping the tableand he likes bringing about a.
Essentially like this evenwhat's happening with the revival
around Charlie Kirk, the seedsof that were sown in nefarious actors
trying to control thepopulation with vaccines.

(01:50:42):
And, and what is God doing?
God's, God's saying, you know,they the sign.
Want to hear God laugh?
Tell them your plans.
I think that we see that thenations rage, they plot in vain.
The Lord in heaven laughs.
And I think that we asChristians can laugh like my God
is spinning all of this evenif it is a nefarious state actor.

(01:51:05):
And what I actually probablyneed to go do is love my kids and
my wife and build my businessand create wealth and disciple a
couple young men in my circlesto not go off of the deep end with
Israel and all this kind of stuff.
Not to say that there isn'tlike there's stuff that is like there.
It's sin though.

(01:51:26):
It's sin.
It's the love, the lust of theflesh, the lust of the eyes, money,
power and, and you and I'msorry but full red blooded Americans
are just as you know, with noaffiliation to Israel are just as
bad actors in the system and,and, and, and the problem is sin.

(01:51:47):
The problem is that we apartfrom God.
And the whole narrative ofscripture is even people that know
God and have his commandmentsstill end up having sex with their
dad, you know, and still endup doing these kinds of things.
It's like, it's.
It's.
It's.
You know, it's.
It's.

(01:52:07):
It's crazy, you know, andpeople look at scripture and be like,
look at all these sinners.
You know, I'm like, yes.
And yet God still subjectedhis son to that for us.
And then how now should wethen live?
You know, so what if it was asecond shooter?
Like, and that's the thing,too, is, like, there's this culture

(01:52:29):
of.
I watched the video where itwas graphic one time.
One time, and that's it.
And.
And I have seen hundreds ofdead bodies and.
And had to actually handlethem and do all this kind of stuff.
The sanctity of life mattersto me.
We have a.
A Gore hungry and sick population.

(01:52:51):
We have a drama hungry andsick population.
And.
And that all was.
Was amplified with this event.
And.
And.
And.
And.
But at the same time, we'reseeing how the enemy responded, and
it's despicable.
We're seeing how Christian.
What Christians are notwilling to mention the epic work
of this guy.
And I'm just like, praise the Lord.

(01:53:13):
Praise the Lord.
I get to see your true colors.
And praise the Lord.
I have a church that I get togo to prayer meeting and be with
saints that know me and mykids and love me whether or not there
was a second shooter, you know?
Right.
And I. I think it's.
And I love all of that.
And this is why a churchcommunity is so important.
I know that you have to go tothat prayer meeting in just a minute,

(01:53:34):
but just.
Just we could add one more thing.
Like, is it really soimpossible to believe?
Especially after Minneapolis.
After the Minneapolis churchshooting, the Catholic with the kids,
the Nashville school shooter,even going all the way back to Columbine,
actually, like, Dylan Theboldand his partner Eric something.
They were also intotransgender stuff.
That came out.

(01:53:55):
I think that came out waylater, so that it's not as if transgender,
you know, quote, unquote, maleshooter or male.
Male.
Male shooters are somehow a thing.
It's not as if politicalviolence from the extreme, radical
left is somehow a new thing.
Is it really hard to believethat a kid pulled off a, you know,
a sloppy.

(01:54:15):
A sloppy job and that's allthere is to it?
And I think that we haveplenty of evidence to suggest that's
the case, you have means,motive and opportunity, which is
how you establish a crime inany court.
Right.
And so this looks like what it is.
And is that so hard to believe?
That's exactly what it is.
Is that not the direction thecountry has been going in for the

(01:54:37):
past, I don't know, fiveyears, 10 years, 20 years picket.
Right.
Is that so hard to believeversus, no, there must be some grand
larger conspiracy behind it all.
Maybe there is.
Or maybe this is exactly whatit looks like.
Maybe this is the end productof a nation that has forgotten God,
that has thrown him out of thepublic square and has tolerated crazy

(01:54:58):
behavior and beliefs for fartoo long, going all the way back
to the start with the talkgiven by Pete Hegseth.
Is that hard to believe?
I don't think that it is.
And I think it's, you know,Occam's razor.
I think it's the more validexplanation, the more heartbreaking,
you know, explanation.
The one that's like, oof.
This looks at all of us asAmericans, instead of pointing the

(01:55:19):
finger over there.
Yeah.
And I think we as Christians,like, you should really check your
heart if you're not lookingwith grief at the mug shot of that
young man.
Amen.
You know, and, and, and, andlike, essentially, like, for sure
he's going to have to bear.

(01:55:39):
Be responsible for his actions.
And if.
Amen.
You know, in, in the court oflaw, it's determined that this is
the guy that dropped the hammer.
I believe that there should becapital punishment for this crime,
should be held responsible,but that doesn't mean he's the only
one that sinned in this process.
Like, we as a society have, have.

(01:56:02):
Are.
Are giving our kids untested.
We know, actually we're givingthem stuff that's literally messing
them up forever for their life.
That's right.
And it's, and we've created anideology and a doctrine around it
that's dangerous and ishurting kids and is, is, is mutilating

(01:56:22):
them and chemically castrating them.
And it's, it's an.
I grieve for it.
It's.
This isn't transphobic hate.
I want them to be in, in there.
One of the videos that Charliesaid, like, I want you to be happy.
I want you to be who God putyou on this earth to be.
And, and I want you to, to goforth and live your life for his

(01:56:43):
glory and, and realize thatsacrificing and submitting to his
will and following the Word,which is the, the best instruction
manual for, for a Joyful happy life.
I want that for you.
And, and I don't feel like you.
I can look at the fruit ofjust like I can there's, I can look
at people in my own churchthat don't have joy.

(01:57:04):
In the same, maybe a lesser degree.
Let's, let's get closer toJesus here.
Let's get.
Figure out what the creator ofthe universe, how he wove this together
to work well and for our goodand let's get there together.
And the Christian worldviewhas a system that can demand justice

(01:57:26):
but also has the mercy sideand God being the ultimate judge
here and the state having arequirement to bear the sword.
Us having spiritual weaponsand sometimes that's physical to
defend those that are in ourcare and all this complex stuff.
We have an answer for all ofit and we need to take that to our

(01:57:51):
local community, our family,us personally in our own heart.
And, and, and, and, and Ithink it's going to happen like it's,
it's, it's and it's a.
What an amazing time to be alive.
I agree brother man, I wish Icould keep you here forever so we
could keep talking but I knowyou got to go put into action all
the things you just talkedbeen talking about.
Go and take your family to a,to a Wednesday prayer meeting.

(01:58:14):
So, so grateful for you.
So grateful for yourfriendship, for your wisdom, for
your experience and yourperspective as always.
Where would you like me?
Absolutely.
Where would you like to sendpeople to find out more about you
and what you do?
Well, I guess I'm most activeon X at the spearing and have my
website link in the bio butit's Spearing co and I'm working

(01:58:37):
on some offerings for thechurch and for men in the community
that are leading their community.
I kind of am trying to focuson people that kind of already have
the, the brown belt level atsome of these kind of skills and
equip them to lead and teachin their own community.
That's kind of how we'retrying to build our, our land out
to help those.
So if you're in, in a churchor a Christian school or someplace

(01:59:03):
and you're leading that andyou're saying I need more tools and
I need more training and Ineed more talking points to help
lead it where I am in training.
Get in touch with me DM me oryou know, send a contact us on the
website.
We're, we're trying to offerkind of in person training here with
kind of the, the elaboratecadre of people that we even just

(01:59:27):
have in our own church withall these different experiences to
enable people in theircommunity to protect those that are
under their care.
As I think we're going to seemore of this because of the political,
the cultural state we're inand the sinful state of our nation.
And I think Christians need,you know, first and foremost to be
ready to proclaim the gospel.

(01:59:48):
But for anybody that isseeking to physically harm those
under our care, we see thatprescriptive in Adam working and
guarding the garden and theLevitical priest working and guarding
the tabernacle.
I take the guard thing very seriously.
I feel like that's one of mygifts that God has, has given me
some, some knowledge andwisdom in that area and actual real

(02:00:11):
technical skill.
So I want to help you guys dothat and bring that to your community
and come up with ways we cando that.
So just get in touch with meif if that's a angst that you feel
where you are and you wanthelp with that.
I'm trying to trying to do that.
Sam SA.

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NATHAN SPEARING - Reforming America's Military: How Hegseth Just Set Up Generals for Termination

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}NATHAN SPEARING - Reforming America's Military: How Hegseth Just Set Up Generals for Termination