The Shift to Channel-First Strategy with Epic IO's McKenzie Maness and Taylor Costello
In this episode of The Wireless Way, host Chris Whitaker is joined by McKenzie Maness and Taylor Costello from Epic IO. Together, they discuss the importance of a channel-first strategy, trends in the technology sector, and share valuable insights on how trusted advisors can better serve their clients. Learn about the new Wireless Window solution and how it adds significant value for partners and their customers. Additionally, McKenzie and Taylor share personal stories, career journeys, and their thoughts on the evolving landscape of tech sales. Stay tuned for an engaging discussion that blends professional advice with a touch of humor.
00:00 Introduction and Welcome
00:48 Meet McKenzie Maness
01:41 McKenzie's Journey into Technology
04:12 Meet Taylor Costello
04:42 Taylor's Unique Path to Technology
09:23 Changes in the Channel
15:11 Epic IO's Channel-First Approach
20:35 Channel Culture and Transitioning Trust Advisors
21:36 Expertise and Supplier Selection
23:16 Expanding Sales and Customer Stickiness
26:19 Winning with Advanced Technologies
31:06 Private Cellular Networks and AIoT
35:42 Introducing Wireless Window
39:03 Final Thoughts and Book Recommendations
Check out my website https://thewirelessway.net/ use the contact button to send request and feedback.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
chris_1_05-15-2025_1513 (00:00):
Welcome to another episode of The
Wireless Way.
I'm your host, Chris Whitaker,and yes.
Yeah.
I'm so grateful that you'rehere.
You're back.
Whether you're a first timelistener or you've been
listening for a long time, I'mgrateful for that.
Have a lot of fun on this show,and today's gonna be no
different.
I'm also grateful for my twoguests.
Yes, if you've been listeningfor a while, normally it's one.
(00:22):
But this topic was so important.
We had to bring in the big gun.
So I have McKenzie, Maness andTaylor Costello with me from
Epic io a fantastic.
Another fantastic supplier I getto work with through my day job
at Intelysis.
But I've known them for yearsand we go back a little way, so
we're gonna be.
Talking about that, and I havea, it's gonna be a great show.
(00:43):
But before we get into that,also a little different.
I, instead of me reading thebio, it's boring.
We'll start.
McKenzie, tell us a little bitabout yourself.
How did you get here?
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2 (00:52):
Yeah, absolutely.
So first of all, happy to behere.
Yeah, so my channel journeystarted at A
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (00:58):
I.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2 (00:58):
which is a little bit unique.
But I spent a few years theresupporting the supplier
management team.
So I had about a hundredsuppliers that I supported
across the board, cloudsecurity.
Mobility ai, IOT.
And Epic IO was actually one ofthose suppliers.
And so I came over here justover two years ago and now I'm
our director of channeldevelopment here.
So I help support all of our TSDrelationships.
(01:20):
I help create new partnercontent help our channel team be
the best that they can be, andsupport all the way from top to
bottom for that.
So
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (01:27):
And I will say, you do a great job at
that.
I've
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025 (01:31):
A.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (01:31):
that
mckenzie-maness_1_05-1 (01:32):
herding.
chris_1_05-15-2025_15131 (01:33):
she's, yeah.
Yeah.
That's the star.
Yeah, I just said that.
'cause Taylor's on actually.
No, I'm just kidding.
But actually I do have another,I do have a question for you
though.
So at what point in your careerdid you go, I really this
technology thing.
And by the way, before you evenanswer, just know.
Three quarters of the people Iasked that to, they go, I
actually, I had no intention ofever being a technology.
I just kinda stumbled into it.
(01:54):
I'm just curious how whatbrought you in to being in this
world we're in of technology.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2 (01:59):
Yeah, funnily enough, I never planned
on tech and I never even reallyplanned on the sales side of
things.
So I went to school, I had myMBA with an emphasis in
marketing.
That was always the plan, likeplan to do brand consulting
social media, all that funstuff.
And I got to know Amy Baileyreally well, who some of you
might know.
She's been in the channel for areally long time.
She was my mentor during my MBAprogram.
And she got me in the door.
(02:19):
I did an internship at IngramMicro.
Really enjoyed it.
And then was looking for a job afew years back and she
recommended the TSD role that Itook.
And it was a whole new world tome.
The supplier management side wasall new to me.
But turns out I came in and Iloved it because that job really
is just managing relationships.
I.
I love people.
I love to talk, and that'sreally what I get to do all day
long now, is meet new people,make connections connect them
(02:42):
with our team.
And so it was never really aboutthe tech for me.
That's an added bonus that I'velearned to love over the years,
but it's really just the peopleand I think that's what's so
unique about our channel is.
It really is a big family.
It's big, but it's small at thesame time.
So I love that every event islike a high school reunion and
you get to run into everybodyand catch up.
And so I think it's really moreabout the people than the tech
(03:02):
for me.
So
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (03:04):
Man.
See, I'm so glad I asked that.
I had no idea the connectionwith Amy.
Yeah, again, Bailey, a formerguest of the Wireless Way.
Go back and check it out.
A lot of TSD experienceobviously did amazing work there
and now has the own companyunusual.
Unusually unusual marketing, andof course the channel Marketing
association she and some otherslead that.
Yeah, that, that is a great,that's really cool to hear.
(03:27):
One one other question though.
I got out.
I love that.
Through your MBA program andyour formal training, how much
are you using of that today inthis role?
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_ (03:36):
I think it's a lot of the basic
skills of, I have my BA inbusiness as well, so I think
it's a lot of the basic skillsthat are nice to know.
I probably would've learnedalong the way.
But really I think.
The value of it is the people.
One of my closest friends alsoworks in our team now that I met
during my MBA program.
Angelica Rivera, she's ourchannel marketing manager,
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (03:54):
man.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-1 (03:55):
amazing.
And then again, I would've nevermet Amy and I wouldn't be
sitting here now.
So I think it's less honestly,about what I learned.
I think it sped up my processand I took a few years off of a
learning curve.
But really it's just theconnections that I made along
the way is really where I thinkI got the most value out of it.
But.
chris_1_05-15-2025_15131 (04:10):
That's great.
Thanks for sharing all that.
And, yeah.
Now Taylor Costello, the manwith the face made for radio per
him.
He said that himself, folks.
I did not say that, but a tall,handsome man.
Taylor, tell tell us your storya little bit.
What are you doing today and howdid you get here?
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2 (04:27):
Sure.
Thanks Chris.
First off for having us I have arather unique story believe it
or not in college,
chris_1_05-15-2025_15131 (04:33):
minute show, by the way.
Just letting you
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025 (04:36):
It all.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (04:38):
We can go 45.
We can go 45, right?
Go ahead.
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025 (04:42):
No believe it or not in college I
received A-A-B-F-A in paintingand sculpture, right?
It was my plan then to become anart professor, right?
I'm naturally gifted in thearts.
I never really saw myself insales or technology.
Back then I was, frankly anintrovert, right?
I lived in a studio for sixyears and.
(05:03):
Once I graduated I moved fromMinnesota to Seattle with a
$128,000 in debt.
And I remember the first billhit my mailbox and I was like,
what am I gonna do?
How am I gonna pay off thisdebt?
And I I saw an ad in thenewspaper, this is again, 20
(05:25):
plus years ago.
I saw an ad in the newspaperthat was looking for
salespeople, a hundred percentcommission.
Make as much as you want.
It was advertised, right?
And I quickly learned thatbecause of my creative mindset
maybe being more introvertedthan extroverted, that end users
really wanted to do businesswith me.
(05:47):
'cause I wasn't yourstereotypical salesperson,
right?
Looking back in my childhood, Inever thought I would be in
technology, never thought I'd bein sales.
I thought I was gonna be thiswacky art professor doing some
really interesting stuff.
But here I am 20, 20 plus yearslater, still loving it some
(06:09):
someday, Chris.
Someday I'll get someday whenI'm retired I'll be living in a
studio painting and sculpting.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (06:16):
ask you how much of your form
education you're using today?
'cause I'm guessing not much.
Is there anything you take backfrom that other than.
I don't know that having an eyefor art.
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025 (06:25):
It all kidding aside, I, I feel and
McKenzie can attest to this, Ifeel like I use the creativeness
of my brain on a day-to-daybasis.
It seems like almost every day Iam hitting Mackenzie with a
wacky idea and she's like.
Where did you come up with that?
McKenzie is naturally creativeas well.
So the harmony that we achievetogether having a creative
(06:49):
mindset I feel like reallybenefits the partner community
benefits epic io as our employerand benefits the TSD community
as well.
chris_1_05-15-2025_15131 (07:00):
That's very interesting.
Again, what a great story.
I did not know that either.
So that's, I've known you guysfor years and it's just, it's
amazing what you ask me, justwhat you learn when you ask the
right questions.
I think there's a sales lessonin there too, somewhere asking
the right questions.
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2 (07:16):
this.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-20 (07:17):
Ugh,
chris_1_05-15-2025_15131 (07:17):
That's right.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15- (07:18):
missed opportunity.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (07:20):
Gosh, no, that, that's through your,
through the schooling and all,really never really thought
yourself as a techie.
Was you ever like a gadget guyor, was it always just more
about the arts and when you sayart, are I hear you say
sculpting or was it what type ofart was it
taylor-costello_1_05-1 (07:35):
Painting and sculpture.
So I have a,
chris_1_05-15-2025_1 (07:37):
sculpture?
Did you have a preference or wasthat kinda like a package deal?
You did both or?
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025 (07:42):
it wasn't a two for one special.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (07:44):
Did you get like a discount for
learning both or?
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2 (07:47):
We're gonna wave, it did take me six
years to graduate with a BFA.
They said, Hey, if you're gonnatake on sculpting in addition to
painting, we'll wave that sixyear for you.
So it was a 2 1 2 for onespecial.
No.
I'll get in a side, Chris.
My I favor painting.
And then my secondary would besculpture.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (08:06):
Wow.
Now I, so a couple of weeks agoI was in New York.
My son lives in Brooklyn and wewent to the Met and oh my gosh.
I don't have any of the skillsyou discussed, but, or I
described, but but no Idefinitely have a appreciation
to think that.
can make these things.
It's just because I don't feellike I have that in me.
And in fact, boo Verde, mycolleague that handles cloud and
(08:29):
ai, he did a great talk at oneof our AI masterclasses where he
just he took the example.
I'm gonna totally mess this up,so if you're listening, boo.
I'm sorry.
But of the change in art, howart was done around the 14
hundreds, the medieval times,how things were flat and looked,
everybody looked like they'retwo dimensional and, what
happened to where art becamelooking like a photograph
(08:52):
almost.
And there's some kind of concavelens or something.
He got real technical about itand someone studied all this and
told, got the guy's name.
But yeah, I'll have to sharethat with you.
You probably really appreciatethat.
And Boo's a great guy.
He's, he loves history and artas well.
This is interesting.
We're all techies and we allhave our different backgrounds,
which is great.
(09:12):
Going, speaking of backgrounds,obviously Taylor you've been at
this a good while now.
A good time.
You got your channel chops onhere.
I'm really curious to know yourthoughts on this.
We're seeing a lot of changes inthe channels.
So from your perspective, what'sthe biggest changes you've seen
throughout your time in thechannel?
taylor-costello_1_05-15- (09:29):
Chris, I'm gonna answer that with a
story real quick.
So back in 2025 I worked for acompensation analyst
organization.
It was a startup
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (09:39):
Back in 2025.
taylor-costello_1_05-15-20 (09:41):
back in, I'm sorry 2005, 2005.
chris_1_05-15-2025_15131 (09:44):
That's a difference.
I was like, I thought you'd beendoing this for a while, bro.
What?
What you talking about?
Just last week.
No, that's good.
Okay.
I'm not gonna make this easy onyou, man.
You're doing a great job though.
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025 (09:57):
So in, in 2005, worked for the
startup really sellingcompensation.
And I started off in directsales.
And halfway through my tenure atthat organization, I stumbled
across HR consultants.
And these HR consultants wouldwork with comp departments and
HR departments.
To advise them what to pay theiremployees based on skillset,
(10:21):
tenure experience,certifications, et cetera.
And that was a pivotal time inmy career.
'cause I realized theseconsultants had something that I
didn't have as a directsalesperson.
They had the relationships.
Then I realized that I had theproduct set right.
I had, we had as a brand wefilled the void of what the
(10:46):
consultants were needing toadvise their end users.
And ever since that day, I'vebeen working with consultants,
VARs, MSPs, TAs, et cetera.
And what's interesting, Chris,when I look back on the last 20
years.
When I think about my early daytenure supporting the partner
(11:08):
community, it was a veryreactive time.
We are reacting to the quotescoming in, right?
We're jumping on demos reactive,right?
We're building paperworkreactive to their needs.
We're reacting to provisioningand billing inquiries.
And when you look at the channeltoday.
It's polar opposite, right?
(11:30):
It's polar opposite.
Meaning we are proactive.
Anyone within the supplierorganization that supports the
channel, they should have aproactive mindset.
And that's that makes meremember about eight, nine years
ago, we hired a channel managerthat was new to channel
management.
(11:51):
He called me Chris, he calledme, I don't know, a week, two
weeks into his gig.
And he said, Taylor, you've beendoing this a long time.
I think everyone thinks that I'mold, Chris.
I think that's a commonalityhere.
He called me and said, he calledme and said, Hey, Taylor, you've
been doing this a long time.
What advice do you have for me?
And my advice to him was, youwork for the partners.
(12:15):
You don't work for youremployer.
You'll work for the partners,right?
And once you have that mindsetcoupled with that proactive
mindset, you're gonna run intandem with that partner.
And that is the most magicalthing that I've seen in the last
20 years supporting the partnercommunity is that reactiveness
(12:36):
to now a proactive mind share,whether it's a TSD or down to
the TA level.
Now it'd be interesting to hearfrom Mackenzie and Mackenzie,
your experience, you've workedfor A TSD as a supplier manager,
right?
Like what, what has changed inyour tenure of supporting,
(12:57):
whether it's suppliers or theTSDs?
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2 (13:00):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think it's interesting.
Even just within the last, let'ssay five years I think when I
came in, it was a very cookiecutter model of you do X, Y, and
Z.
That's it.
There's no other expectationsand you'll do fine.
But the reality is even sinceI've.
Been in this channel, which isabout five years, I think
there's a tremendous amount ofcompetition that wasn't
(13:21):
necessarily there before.
So you have to do more.
Trusted advisors are expectingmore from you.
It's not pay your commissions ontime.
And.
up, go to events.
It's more than that.
It's truly a partnership.
And I think it's good thatthey're expecting that it's our
job to give them the resourcesand the tools and the support
they need to be able to sell us.
But I do think because there areso many players in this space
(13:43):
now, you do have to do a lot tostand out.
Outside of the typical MDF orthe typical pay to play,
whatever it is I think there's alot of expectations on suppliers
that weren't there before to goabove and beyond, whether it's
providing resources or the waythat even your company is
stacked to be a really channelfirst company.
I think there's a lot moreweight behind that now than
there was even a few years ago.
(14:04):
So it's been really interestingto watch that.
On the TSD side, like I said, Isupported about a hundred
suppliers and you could reallytell.
The ones that realized that andstarted to make the shift and to
let me be a genuine partner foryou.
Let me be proactive, not justwait for you to reach out to me
with a quote.
Those are the ones that have,I've really seen succeed over
the last couple of years.
And I think that's a big thingthat we do at Epic.
(14:25):
That's why I was drawn to comehere, is I saw that before I was
even here of.
We are making them the priority.
Like you said, we work for thosepartners.
We don't work for Epic, we do,but at the end of the day, we
work for those partners.
I think that's something we'vedone here as well, is just going
above and beyond to be a partnerand support them in a way that
just really wasn't expected oreven the norm even a few years
ago.
(14:45):
So it's been
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (14:46):
God.
No, those are greatobservations.
I definitely wanna.
that a little bit further.
Yeah I echo that.
I agree with both of you.
But yeah, in the last, severalyears we're seeing this
transition in the channel.
Things have been changingobviously for the better.
For us in the channel.
I feel major companies, changingtheir go-to market strategy
with, used to be heavy direct.
(15:07):
Now it's heavy channel.
Of course, these companies arecalling themselves channel first
companies.
You mentioned that tell me alittle bit more about, for,
especially from Epic IOperspective, what does that mean
and what are you guys doing toto set yourself apart and add
value to the, to these partnersthat, that we all work for?
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2 (15:24):
Yeah.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (15:25):
Who wants to take that?
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_ (15:26):
I was gonna say today.
Sure.
I'll start off and you can jumpin.
I think first and foremost,something that gives us an
advantage is Epic io formerlyBroadsky.
We've been in the channel for 20years.
It's who we are.
We never were direct.
And I think that gives us a bitof an advantage'cause we never
had to pivot.
There was never that realizationof, oh, this actually could be
really successful.
(15:47):
It's been a part of our businessmodel, so every single team that
we have has that channel first.
Mentality, genuinely fromengineering, post-sales,
pre-sales, account management,even our C levels those that
have come even from companiesthat perhaps weren't channel
first.
We have really taken the time tobring them to events to be like,
you've got to get this, you haveto see it for yourself and
(16:08):
understand.
So it's really refreshing and Ithink that does give us.
An advantage of from C-level allthe way down to every person on
every team.
We all have that channel firstapproach and we know that it's
more than just payingcommissions on time, paying your
MDF, showing up at events.
It's things like, somethingwe've done this last year is
creating sales tools.
A lot of partners are startingto.
(16:30):
So maybe before it was they onlysold network, they only sold
CAS, and now they're realizing,okay, I can sell CAS, but I also
need to sell cloud andcybersecurity and backup
internet and whatever else.
But that doesn't necessarilymean that they're an expert and
they can't be in every singlething that they're selling.
So what can we do to makeworking with me or with Taylor
or with Epic Easy?
(16:50):
So it's writing email campaignsfor them, writing super simple
to understand solution briefs.
Offering training, making surethat our engineers are available
to jump on calls with them, tojump on calls with their
customers and really supportingthem in tandem that entire
process of the second they sendus a quote, they're getting that
white glove service, which ischeesy.
I hate to even use that'cause Ithink people say it that they
(17:12):
don't mean it, but it truly isevery step of the way from.
You wanna hit up cold leads oryou wanna have a conversation
with a customer that doesn'tunderstand POTS or backup
internet or starlink, we're hereto help.
So I think that's a huge thingthat we've done is just
providing them with assets, withresources, with training and
enablement.
And even let's say for example,events, I think before it was
(17:34):
all TSDs, it was sponsor theirevents and there's value there,
you have to be there.
But we've even come alongsideadvisors and said, Hey.
Bring some customers, we'll comeand we'll do the pitch for you.
Bring 15 customers, we'll buydinner, we'll buy lunch and let
us pitch for 10 minutes.
Those that you think may be agood fit for us and supporting
them in their own businessmodels that they've begun to
(17:54):
develop as they've continued togrow their businesses.
So I think those are just a fewthings.
Taylor, I don't know if you haveanything
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (18:00):
Yeah.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15- (18:01):
there.
chris_1_05-15-2025_15131 (18:01):
Before you do Taylor I have comic
relief.
This is my job as a host.
I gotta insert a jokeoccasionally when you said white
glove, immediately I was like,yeah, but then you said, it's
appropriate term.
I was like what else could wesay?
And I think I came up withsomething.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I think it's cool.
Michael Jackson glove.
taylor-costello_1_05-15-202 (18:23):
Oh.
chris_1_05-15-2025_15131 (18:23):
glove.
Come on, man.
It's pool, it's shiny and youonly need one.
I, yeah.
Woo.
I don't, I give you a MichaelJackson glove experience.
Is that, would that sell?
I don't know, but I,
mckenzie-maness_1_0 (18:36):
Immediately get the eye roll.
Everybody says white glove.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (18:39):
yeah,
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025 (18:39):
to even say it, but like you said,
it's, Michael What we're usingfrom now
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (18:42):
yeah.
I gotta figure out a way I,yeah.
Michael m the MJ glove, I don'tknow.
I think.
I just thought of it as I, Jeff,if I can use that, the MJ glove
and see if anyone gets it.
But anyway,
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025 (18:52):
We
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (18:52):
I agree.
taylor-costello_1_05-15- (18:53):
might.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (18:55):
Yeah, I don't know.
That's what I'm saying.
Can we say that?
It's a compliment.
It's everyone who doesn't likethe MJ glove.
I don't know.
Yeah I, okay.
I'll keep working on that.
I'll keep working on it.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2 (19:05):
Yeah.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (19:05):
I'll
taylor-costello_1_05-1 (19:06):
McKenzie you said something that I want
double down on that I don'tthink, I don't think a lot of
suppliers
chris_1_05-15-2025_15131 (19:12):
slang.
Double down and
taylor-costello_1_05-15- (19:14):
double down.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (19:15):
Just go ahead and double click on
that.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2 (19:16):
Yeah.
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2 (19:17):
We're gonna double click.
I think it's very easy forsuppliers to say that we're a
channel first organization.
I.
Okay.
Very easy to say, and they mightmean it Chris, right?
Wholeheartedly.
They might mean it, but toreally be a channel first
organization, McKensey, nailedit, right?
Every department needs to be inlockstep within their peer
(19:40):
department, within the TSD,within the TA community.
That's engineering, that'soperation, that's C level,
that's marketing, that's accountmanagement, et cetera.
And once you have that lockstepharmony, it accomplished two
things.
One channel first.
Okay.
Two, it produces greaterdividends revenue, the tighter
(20:05):
the two parties are within eachdepartment, and once you have
that figured out, you're gonnasee revenues create like a
hockey stick.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (20:15):
No, I think if you're listening and
you are a supplier and what doeschannel first mean to you?
I think that's a good exercise.
Especially when you mention allthe other departments.
'cause you're, I've seen greattechnology with a great channel
team.
I.
Fell because marketing wasn'tbehind it, or finance didn't
understand to pay commissionsand clawed back things that
shouldn't be clawed back orwhatever.
(20:35):
You're right, it's gotta be,it's gotta be through the
culture.
It's gotta be a channel cultureeven.
I totally love that wholeconversation around, channel
first, what does it mean,channel culture, et cetera.
But pivoting just a little bitwanna get back to, your day job
and what you guys are promotingfor us and working with the
partners, what advice do youhave for the trust advisors that
are, trying to make thattransition?
(20:57):
And before you answer that, Ijust wanna add a little bit to
that.
Even in the events the TSDs aredoing, we're trying to train'em
on all this stuff.
There's a lot out there.
And even here, even in my role,I'm starting to see, light bulbs
are starting to come on more.
'Cause what's the saying?
If you were gonna grow yourbusiness double digit in
revenue.
And you're, and you don't sellanything new.
You gotta sell a lot more of thesame stuff, right?
(21:17):
Because, some of these things,fiber and ucas, the spiffs are
going away.
It's a race to the bottom, soyou gotta add more to it.
I like to hear what are youseeing in the market?
How are you seeing thesepartners transition?
Are some a natural, are some of'em resisting?
What's going on in terms of, themaking that transition?
Any advice you have?
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_ (21:36):
I think my first advice would be,
there's 300 suppliers plus inthe channel, right?
You don't have to be an expertat everything.
I've heard people talk aboutthis over the last 12, 18
months, that you really wanna bean expert amongst all this
technology stack.
That's nearly impossible, right?
My advice is whether it's uc,cc, traditional wan, cyber cloud
(22:02):
computing, you name thatvertical.
Pick two or three suppliers thatyou trust that are really
leaning into you, that arerunning a practice around your
business.
And run lockstep within two orthree suppliers in each
vertical, uc, CC wan, wireless,ai, iot, et cetera.
(22:25):
Mackenzie got anything that youwanna double down on that?
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_ (22:27):
I totally agree.
I think it's super important.
I do think you have to beeducated.
I think you have to be able toconnect the dots of.
If you're selling CCAS, great.
What I would do is go straightto whoever your TSD engineer is
that best, or whoever you trustand say, okay, if I'm selling
this product, what else should Iautomatically be adding on?
And then identifying, likeTaylor said, okay, what are, if
(22:49):
you're great in CCAS, here's thethree verticals that really
align well with that.
That every single conversation Ihave that I'm normally selling C
CCAS, I say, that's awesome.
Do you want fries with that of.
You should also be adding backupinternet if you're selling
circuits or whatever it lookslike.
Be educated of where can youexpand, where it makes sense for
you, where you're not gettingmaybe entirely out of your
(23:11):
comfort zone yet.
Find the dots that connect andstart there.
And land and expand that way.
'cause I think, like Taylorsaid, I actually think it was
you, Christ of, you just gottasell a lot more of the same
thing if you're sticking withone product, but chances are.
You've got an entire customerbase of customers that are
really happy working with you,and there's probably a whole lot
of other solutions that theyneed that you're able to provide
(23:32):
for them.
If you can figure out how toconnect those dots and then find
those suppliers, like Taylorsaid, that are the expert, know
enough to be dangerous.
Let them do the heavy lifting.
Bring their engineers in, havethem do all the crazy stuff.
Just know the right questions toask to open the door and then
pull those people in to supportyou, because that's our job is
to do that part.
So totally agree with what yousaid, Taylor, of finding a
(23:53):
handful in each vertical thataligns with what you do and
landing and expanding fromthere.
taylor-costello_1_05-15-202 (23:58):
You absolutely nailed it, Mackenzie.
We.
We often see partners gettingexcited about net new logos.
And that's exciting, right?
Like we're all salespeople.
It's exciting to grab a net newlogo, right?
But there are gold in the hillsof your base of customers that
partners, I feel are walkingaway from right.
(24:21):
Mackenzie you said this right?
You, you sell uc seats, right?
You should automatically includepots, right?
Pots is going to reduce, you'regonna, you're gonna save the
customer money and you're gonnabe allocate that funds to
whatever technology stack you'retrying to sell'em, right?
There should be a, do you wantfries with that mentality within
(24:41):
your base?
Because the more that you sellto your base.
The greater stickiness you have.
McKenzie and I were talking toour president yesterday about
the subject of do you want frieswith that?
And McKenzie, he said somethingreally interesting to us, right?
His first comment was, thinkabout Apple, right?
(25:01):
Chris, think about your firstApple purchase.
It was probably in.
And Chris, I don't know this, soI'm gambling here.
Hopefully it doesn't backfire onme.
I'm willing to bet that youdon't have one Apple product.
I'm willing to bet that you havegreater than one Apple product.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (25:21):
Oh my gosh.
Do by the way, it was an iPodactually.
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2 (25:25):
Okay?
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (25:25):
the I the iPod?
There you go.
That goes back.
Oh.
Yeah.
No, you're right man.
We got dozens.
Yeah,
taylor-costello_1_05-15-20 (25:30):
Yes.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (25:30):
an Apple family for sure.
Yeah.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_ (25:32):
I am
taylor-costello_1_05-15-202 (25:33):
No.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-202 (25:34):
top customer in my keyboard, my
mouse,
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (25:37):
I.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15 (25:37):
laptop,
taylor-costello_1_05-15-20 (25:38):
Now.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15- (25:38):
watch.
taylor-costello_1_05-15-202 (25:40):
Now think about that right
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2 (25:42):
Yeah.
taylor-costello_1_05-15-20 (25:42):
app.
Apple has created stickiness,right?
They have reduced churn.
The more products that you havewithin a supplier, the greater
or the less churn you are gonnahave with your end user.
Now, let's flip that model tothe TA and the end user, right?
You sell an end user, just onetechnology step.
(26:03):
Your percentage of churn ispretty darn high, right?
But if you sell that end user 1015 product stacks right now, you
have true stickiness and yourchurn is practically gonna be
nothing.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (26:16):
Wow.
No I love this topic'causethat's what this is all about.
In, in the area of, just goingback to the root of all this,
the I and iot, that theinternet, the connectivity of it
all I'd like to get yourthoughts on, where are people
winning and what, what trendsand opportunities are most
common.
And even another thought beforeyou answer that, I feel like
there, there's a standardofferings that a traditional
(26:37):
telecom that everyone's selling,right?
But then there's the advancedtechnologies, which is what
we're talking, I we spend a lotof time talking about.
I'm very focused on advancedtechnologies.
These are the fries, if youwill.
Selling connectivity, everyone'sdoing that.
And you need to keep doing thatbecause all this stuff doesn't
work without the connectivity.
So there's that.
Where are the, where are peoplewinning?
(26:58):
And just as important where doyou think trusted advisors are
missing the opportunity to win?
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2 (27:06):
Sure.
I guess I'll take that, right?
I, Chris I said it earlier,right?
Let's just pick on POTS for anexample, right?
We know.
What's happening with pots,right?
They're pricing themselves sideof the market, right?
The imex are on purpose, right?
So you can take that reductionof spend and apply it to
whatever technology initiativeyou are trying to sell to your
(27:27):
end user.
Second bullet point, when youthink about wan, right?
Like Chris I, I spent my days, Ispent a lot of tenure at
Integra, right?
And we would sell'em a DS threecircuit or bonded T ones, and
then the end user would wantthat secondary circuit.
And at that point in time, thesecondary circuit was a cable
circuit.
(27:48):
Right?
'cause that was your onlyoption.
If you think about redundancy,it's all coming into the
building within the same highwayor the same conduit, right?
So what type of backup plan isthat?
Really right now, if you thinkabout 3G, 4G, 5G, 5G now could
run businesses, right?
With, especially with theunlimited plans that you know
(28:09):
selfishly for Epic io a littleplug here, we.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (28:13):
Well, I.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025 (28:14):
By the way,
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025 (28:15):
By the plan.
We have unlimited plans withevery carrier, right?
So we can, if you have a hundredlocations, we can look at each
location and determine who thebest carrier is and apply the
right data package, right?
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (28:28):
All right.
taylor-costello_1_05-15 (28:28):
Another trend that we're seeing is, you
know these, when you order afiber circuit, you know they'll
tell you the due date's.
Wednesday, 90% of the time, theydon't hit the due date.
Customers panicking, partnerspanicking.
Everyone's panicking.
'cause you need internet to runa business.
We can get internet next day tothe end user, which is very
(28:49):
powerful, right?
Just think about that, Chrisyou've been in technology
forever, like internet next dayto the end user.
That is unbelievable technology,right?
And then Chris, I also go to,you think computer vision,
right?
If you look at businesses I'mwilling to say that 90% of
businesses have cameras.
(29:10):
I'm also willing to say 80% ofthat 90% have dumb cameras.
And I realize that's anelementary term, but I'm gonna
use it again.
They have dumb cameras.
Those dumb cameras.
Say it again.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-20 (29:26):
What
taylor-costello_1_05-15-20 (29:27):
They
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025 (29:27):
do they have?
taylor-costello_1_05-15-20 (29:28):
have dumb cameras, Mackenzie.
chris_1_05-15-2025_1513 (29:29):
They're dumb.
They're not smart.
They're not smart.
don't have a, they don't have a,they don't have a, an art degree
taylor-costello_1_05-15-20 (29:37):
They don't, all they are doing is
recording an event, right?
Fast forward the business ownermaybe next day reviews the
footage right, calls the police.
Nothing happens.
Nothing happens.
It goes back to what we talkedabout in the beginning It's
reactive right now.
What if we can take those dumbcameras and play IQ to'em and
(30:00):
make'em smart?
That is more proactive versusreactive, right?
So I think where there is a missor a huge opportunity for the
partner community is that voidas it pertains to cameras,
because there's not a lot offocus on it from a proactive
perspective, Mackenzie.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025 (30:22):
of that too, sorry, not to cut you
off, but I think AI is the newhot topic, but in our channel
specifically, it's all the CA inthe ucas ai, it's the chat bots.
It's the chat GPT, and theythink that, and that's where
their knowledge is stopped rightnow.
And the computer vision side isso interesting and there's so
many different things that youcan do with it, like the
proactive security,environmental monitoring,
(30:44):
whatever that looks like.
And I think it's something thatthey are really leaving on the
table that we're gonna see aprogressive in uptake in the
next.
Year or so, maybe two.
Because it's just not reallygetting talked about very often.
I think AI got sucked up by allthe big ucas CCAS players,
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (31:00):
God.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15- (31:01):
great.
We need that too.
But I don't think it's gettingmuch attention yet, but I think
people are starting to notice.
And then the other one, Taylor,I don't know if you wanna talk
about is PCN has started to geta lot more traction with us as.
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2 (31:12):
Yeah, I was gonna, I was gonna ping
this to Chris.
I'm gonna throw Chris the curveball here, right?
Chris, you live in the upperechelon as it pertains to
technology, right?
People go to you and look up toyou because you're looking into
the future, right?
You're the 2.0 versus everyoneelse is the 1.0.
So my question to you is whattrends are you seeing?
(31:35):
That other people should focuson because you live in a
different layer per se and havea different focus from a
day-to-day perspective
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (31:44):
I think everyone should just buy
from Epic io.
That's the trend I'm seeing.
Oh, wait, okay.
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2 (31:51):
gift.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (31:51):
Yeah.
you guys are not paying for thisinterview for the record.
Yeah.
No, that's a good one.
I, that's why we're having thisconversation, by the way.
I, another a kudos to you guys.
I feel like it was four, maybefive years ago.
I don't know who came up withit, but I think I first heard
from Skyler, one of yourcolleagues, the phrase A IOT.
Know The smooshing together ofAI and iot, because that's what
(32:14):
it is.
And AI is driving all this.
Back to even the dumb cameras,there was, they call, they used
to call'em smart devices.
They could take some informationand make a decision on and off
open close.
But now they're not only, beingproactive and, make automating
manual task, but they're makingdecisions and delivering
actionable data.
(32:35):
All of this requires, some logicand machine learning that's all
a part of ai.
So first of all, yeah, we'requick.
Do you guys remember when Ai OTbecame a, was that a, is that an
epic thing or?
I don't.
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2 (32:50):
This.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-20 (32:51):
Yes, the dark ages we like to call
it,
taylor-costello_1_05-15- (32:54):
Tenure Iil, but we,
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (32:57):
That was a long time ago, five
Changed in five years.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_ (33:00):
I
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2 (33:00):
yeah.
We do have to give credit to, toMr.
Skyler Stewart for that namingconvention.
It's funny, Chris we needanother acronym in this space,
and we created one, but werealized AI comma iot was too
hard to say or he realized it.
So he just sandwiched'emtogether.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (33:20):
a
taylor-costello_1_05-15-202 (33:20):
But it makes sense.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (33:21):
Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.
And you're right.
We did an AI masterclassrecently and I was so excited
because we included all four ofthe advanced technologies.
Yes.
CX.
CCaaS, and UCaaS kinda led thecharge.
Those are all very, everyone,every time you call a one 800
number, you're probably talkingto some kind of bot or whatnot.
And then, even how it appliesto, cloud and cybersecurity.
(33:42):
And of course, I came along andsaid, Hey, there's a lot we
could talk about here.
And AI and ai, o, ot,
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025 (33:46):
Oh
chris_1_05-15-2025_1 (33:47):
Especially when it comes to cameras and
facial recognition and weapondetection and even.
a lot of the sensors and smartagriculture, smart buildings,
smart cities mean there's somany things we can go into, but
yes I what you were going toasking about private cellular
networks.
I think that is something thatshould be looked at by more
partners that are working withclients that have large.
(34:08):
Campuses, large buildingswarehouses, especially
warehouses using robotics.
Wifi just really wasn't designedto provide connectivity to the
things that are moving aroundand that can't have latency or,
that whole sticky client issue.
There's a lot there to talkabout private cellular networks,
and it's not for everybody.
It's not gonna be for your,small mom and pops and whatnot.
(34:30):
For those of you that areworking with larger enterprise
clients or with a large air,whether it be a campus or
warehouse, manufacturing floorhealthcare, a lot of hospitals,
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-202 (34:40):
One of our biggest clients for PCN
is a traveling, and I won't saywho, but a
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (34:45):
yeah.
mckenzie-maness_1 (34:45):
entertainment company that streams video live.
They have, you've been to abaseball game or whatever, and
you can't even post on Instagrambecause it's so cl, it's so
crowded on those.
Servers.
And so one of our biggest PCNcustomers is an entertainment
company that uses it when theytravel, it moves with them and
they're able to communicate forsecurity.
All of those stands think likethe point of sale systems for
(35:07):
popcorn and your drinks andeverything else all have to be
connected'cause nobody carriescash anymore.
And then also that livestreaming of whatever they're
showing.
They do a lot of live streamstraight onto the air.
And so that's another one.
That's a great opportunity too.
Events and entertainment.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (35:24):
To answer your question Taylor
there, there's probably a lot, Iwould predict.
But I think you guys are thereason you're on the show here.
'cause I think you're touchingon where we're going and you
have been for some time andthat, that was at the DNA of
Epic io.
So for partners, if you'relistening, you haven't worked
with Epic io, highly recommendit.
Check the show notes, I'll havelinks and whatnot.
But before we close though, I dowanna ask you about a recently
(35:45):
launched new solution that EPICIO has in the market wireless
window.
Quickly walk me through thehighlights.
What do TAs need to know and howdoes this add value for them and
their customers?
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025 (35:57):
So
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (35:58):
I.
mckenzie-maness_1_05- (35:58):
something we've been working on since
before I got here.
They've been working on this, soover two years now.
Really what it comes down to iswireless window is a platform
that gives customers andpartners visibility.
So a lot of times, like Taylorsaid, if you've got those
multi-location businesses, it's.
Likely that they've gotT-Mobile, they've got some on
Verizon, they've got at and t.
This is a platform that letsthem see their sims.
(36:20):
It lets them see their usage allin one place.
Super clean, super easy to use.
It gives them visibility.
If it's looking like they'regonna go over for the month or
let's say for the last threemonths in a row they have gone
over, it gives them that insightto say, Hey, perhaps we need to
bump you to a higher plan.
To really, again, back to theproactive to.
Give them the visibility,anomaly detection.
We had a customer come on lastyear that had.
(36:43):
A tremendous amount of sims andthey weren't using half of them,
and they just didn't know Knowwhat was where.
And we were able to save'em aton of money the second they
walked in the door because wewere able to identify, this is
what you're using, this what's,this is what hasn't been used.
And let's say the last sixmonths, we're gonna shut'em all
off.
If we find something we need toturn back on, great.
But it was an immediate costsavings for them.
(37:04):
And again, just really gives'emthat visibility to be able to
make those business decisionswithout having to do a lot of
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2 (37:10):
Okay.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025 (37:10):
or trying to Frankenstein together
what they're using over here andover there.
All in a really easy to useplatform.
I don't know if you
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (37:17):
Wow.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15 (37:17):
Taylor.
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025 (37:19):
It stems from this whole
conversation today, right?
End users are getting smarterand smarter each and every year,
right?
They want more and more controleach and every year, right?
The days of, Hey, let me justcall my suppliers or figure out
what I have, they'll say Thosedays are done, right?
End users want the control, theywant the visibility.
(37:40):
They wanna be able to predict.
Cost from a it spend right inthis wireless window gives end
users that, that power and thatcontrol to have a hundred
percent visibility so they don'thave to rely on suppliers
reaching out to their accountmanager to be able to give'em
the data set.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-20 (37:58):
Yep.
taylor-costello_1_05-15-20 (37:58):
goes back to that proactive versus
reactive, how we started thisconversation, This shift,
whether it's from a partnercommunity, a TSD community, or
an end user community, we areseeing the shift of reactive to
proactive of having a little bitmore control, whether that's wan
uc, cc, ai, I, ot, wireless, etcetera.
(38:23):
End users want control and wantportals within their tech stack.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (38:28):
Is this in your brand folder or
your online have you added thatto the marketing in the box yet
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-20 (38:32):
They have been updated already, so
they're
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (38:35):
that Oh, great.
By the way, I thought you madethat marketplace just for me,
and now I'm learning It's foreverybody.
Everybody, all partners haveaccess.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-202 (38:45):
my, so my soul
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (38:46):
Yeah, I thought when you gave me all
wow, that's really nice of you.
You made this so easy.
I got my own link.
I got all this material.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-20 (38:52):
Yeah we're
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (38:53):
and
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-202 (38:53):
use your portal is what
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (38:55):
okay.
That's fair.
I like that.
I
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025 (38:57):
If they have any questions, Chris'
Cell phone number is.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (39:00):
Yeah.
Yeah, right.
Go to the wireless way.net.
Yeah.
Any last words?
Any, anything else you want todrop on us before we wrap up?
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_ (39:09):
I don't I don't know.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (39:11):
Are you reading a good book yet?
Are you reading?
Are either one of you arereading a good book or have a
quote you can share?
Gimme something man.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-20 (39:19):
what book I have been told to read
for years and I've rolled myeyes and ignored it, but I'm
finally starting it and it'sactually very good so far is the
one, I think it's by DaleCarnegie and it's the How to Win
Friends and Influence People.
I thought forever that it wasjust over hyped.
I've been told to read itprobably since I was 18 and
haven't and so far I'm actuallypretty intrigued.
It's been a good book, so that'swhat
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (39:40):
No, that's a good one.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025 (39:41):
in
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (39:41):
That is a good one.
Oh, very good.
No, you can never do thatenough, by the way.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2 (39:46):
yeah.
Taylor doesn't read.
You don't need to ask him.
chris_1_05-15-2025_15131 (39:49):
What's your favorite picture book?
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2 (39:53):
Maybe we can end on this.
So I recently went to the doctorand my wife was after me.
And Chris, as you alluded to inthe beginning of this podcast,
I'm pretty old.
So I finally go to the doctorand, he has, he takes my blood,
he does all the normal stuff andhe's I'll be back.
So I'm standing in his room andhe taps me on the shoulder
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (40:14):
But wait, did you have the gown on?
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_ (40:17):
I did not have it down
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (40:18):
Okay.
I'm just curious
taylor-costello_1_05-15- (40:19):
close.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (40:19):
soon.
As I said that, I was like,that's a visual we don't need,
but Okay.
Go ahead.
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025 (40:23):
So he
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (40:24):
the
taylor-costello_1_05-15-20 (40:24):
kept me on the shoulder and I look
backwards and I see him and I,he's holding a book and I look
at the book and I look at thetitle, and the title says How
Not to Die.
So that is the book that I amreading, and it's a, it is a
book all about nutrition, right?
What do you put it in?
Body makes your body.
(40:44):
But I found it very alarmingfrankly that what he tapped me
on the shoulder, didn't sayanything, and just hands me over
this book that is titled How Notto Die.
chris_1_05-15-2025_15131 (40:55):
That's his job.
His job is to help you, notleast, the die prematurely.
God, that two good books.
Fantastic conversation, greatcompany.
I'm so glad we were able to getthis together.
Thanks for joining me today,guys.
I really appreciate it.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025 (41:08):
no problem.
Thanks for having
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (41:10):
I
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-20 (41:10):
This was
taylor-costello_1_05-15- (41:10):
Thanks Chris.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (41:11):
You bet.
And I appreciate it as well.
So there you go folks.
Another episode of The WirelessWay.
And as always, if you heardsomething you like, you wanna
share with a colleague.
Please send it to them.
Share this.
And also check out the wirelessway.net.
There's a contact us button.
You can send me any feedback orrequests you have on guests or
topics.
I really appreciate you checkingthis out and we'll see you next
(41:32):
time on the Wireless Way.
Welcome to another episode of The
Wireless Way.
I'm your host, Chris Whitaker,and yes.
Yeah.
I'm so grateful that you'rehere.
You're back.
Whether you're a first timelistener or you've been
listening for a long time, I'mgrateful for that.
Have a lot of fun on this show,and today's gonna be no
different.
I'm also grateful for my twoguests.
Yes, if you've been listeningfor a while, normally it's one.
(00:22):
But this topic was so important.
We had to bring in the big gun.
So I have McKenzie, Maness andTaylor Costello with me from
Epic io a fantastic.
Another fantastic supplier I getto work with through my day job
at Intelysis.
But I've known them for yearsand we go back a little way, so
we're gonna be.
Talking about that, and I havea, it's gonna be a great show.
(00:43):
But before we get into that,also a little different.
I, instead of me reading thebio, it's boring.
We'll start.
McKenzie, tell us a little bitabout yourself.
How did you get here?
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2 (00:52):
Yeah, absolutely.
So first of all, happy to behere.
Yeah, so my channel journeystarted at A
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (00:58):
I.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2 (00:58):
which is a little bit unique.
But I spent a few years theresupporting the supplier
management team.
So I had about a hundredsuppliers that I supported
across the board, cloudsecurity.
Mobility ai, IOT.
And Epic IO was actually one ofthose suppliers.
And so I came over here justover two years ago and now I'm
our director of channeldevelopment here.
So I help support all of our TSDrelationships.
(01:20):
I help create new partnercontent help our channel team be
the best that they can be, andsupport all the way from top to
bottom for that.
So
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (01:27):
And I will say, you do a great job at
that.
I've
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025 (01:31):
A.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (01:31):
that
mckenzie-maness_1_05-1 (01:32):
herding.
chris_1_05-15-2025_15131 (01:33):
she's, yeah.
Yeah.
That's the star.
Yeah, I just said that.
'cause Taylor's on actually.
No, I'm just kidding.
But actually I do have another,I do have a question for you
though.
So at what point in your careerdid you go, I really this
technology thing.
And by the way, before you evenanswer, just know.
Three quarters of the people Iasked that to, they go, I
actually, I had no intention ofever being a technology.
I just kinda stumbled into it.
(01:54):
I'm just curious how whatbrought you in to being in this
world we're in of technology.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2 (01:59):
Yeah, funnily enough, I never planned
on tech and I never even reallyplanned on the sales side of
things.
So I went to school, I had myMBA with an emphasis in
marketing.
That was always the plan, likeplan to do brand consulting
social media, all that funstuff.
And I got to know Amy Baileyreally well, who some of you
might know.
She's been in the channel for areally long time.
She was my mentor during my MBAprogram.
And she got me in the door.
(02:19):
I did an internship at IngramMicro.
Really enjoyed it.
And then was looking for a job afew years back and she
recommended the TSD role that Itook.
And it was a whole new world tome.
The supplier management side wasall new to me.
But turns out I came in and Iloved it because that job really
is just managing relationships.
I.
I love people.
I love to talk, and that'sreally what I get to do all day
long now, is meet new people,make connections connect them
(02:42):
with our team.
And so it was never really aboutthe tech for me.
That's an added bonus that I'velearned to love over the years,
but it's really just the peopleand I think that's what's so
unique about our channel is.
It really is a big family.
It's big, but it's small at thesame time.
So I love that every event islike a high school reunion and
you get to run into everybodyand catch up.
And so I think it's really moreabout the people than the tech
(03:02):
for me.
So
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (03:04):
Man.
See, I'm so glad I asked that.
I had no idea the connectionwith Amy.
Yeah, again, Bailey, a formerguest of the Wireless Way.
Go back and check it out.
A lot of TSD experienceobviously did amazing work there
and now has the own companyunusual.
Unusually unusual marketing, andof course the channel Marketing
association she and some otherslead that.
Yeah, that, that is a great,that's really cool to hear.
(03:27):
One one other question though.
I got out.
I love that.
Through your MBA program andyour formal training, how much
are you using of that today inthis role?
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_ (03:36):
I think it's a lot of the basic
skills of, I have my BA inbusiness as well, so I think
it's a lot of the basic skillsthat are nice to know.
I probably would've learnedalong the way.
But really I think.
The value of it is the people.
One of my closest friends alsoworks in our team now that I met
during my MBA program.
Angelica Rivera, she's ourchannel marketing manager,
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (03:54):
man.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-1 (03:55):
amazing.
And then again, I would've nevermet Amy and I wouldn't be
sitting here now.
So I think it's less honestly,about what I learned.
I think it sped up my processand I took a few years off of a
learning curve.
But really it's just theconnections that I made along
the way is really where I thinkI got the most value out of it.
But.
chris_1_05-15-2025_15131 (04:10):
That's great.
Thanks for sharing all that.
And, yeah.
Now Taylor Costello, the manwith the face made for radio per
him.
He said that himself, folks.
I did not say that, but a tall,handsome man.
Taylor, tell tell us your storya little bit.
What are you doing today and howdid you get here?
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2 (04:27):
Sure.
Thanks Chris.
First off for having us I have arather unique story believe it
or not in college,
chris_1_05-15-2025_15131 (04:33):
minute show, by the way.
Just letting you
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025 (04:36):
It all.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (04:38):
We can go 45.
We can go 45, right?
Go ahead.
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025 (04:42):
No believe it or not in college I
received A-A-B-F-A in paintingand sculpture, right?
It was my plan then to become anart professor, right?
I'm naturally gifted in thearts.
I never really saw myself insales or technology.
Back then I was, frankly anintrovert, right?
I lived in a studio for sixyears and.
(05:03):
Once I graduated I moved fromMinnesota to Seattle with a
$128,000 in debt.
And I remember the first billhit my mailbox and I was like,
what am I gonna do?
How am I gonna pay off thisdebt?
And I I saw an ad in thenewspaper, this is again, 20
(05:25):
plus years ago.
I saw an ad in the newspaperthat was looking for
salespeople, a hundred percentcommission.
Make as much as you want.
It was advertised, right?
And I quickly learned thatbecause of my creative mindset
maybe being more introvertedthan extroverted, that end users
really wanted to do businesswith me.
(05:47):
'cause I wasn't yourstereotypical salesperson,
right?
Looking back in my childhood, Inever thought I would be in
technology, never thought I'd bein sales.
I thought I was gonna be thiswacky art professor doing some
really interesting stuff.
But here I am 20, 20 plus yearslater, still loving it some
(06:09):
someday, Chris.
Someday I'll get someday whenI'm retired I'll be living in a
studio painting and sculpting.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (06:16):
ask you how much of your form
education you're using today?
'cause I'm guessing not much.
Is there anything you take backfrom that other than.
I don't know that having an eyefor art.
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025 (06:25):
It all kidding aside, I, I feel and
McKenzie can attest to this, Ifeel like I use the creativeness
of my brain on a day-to-daybasis.
It seems like almost every day Iam hitting Mackenzie with a
wacky idea and she's like.
Where did you come up with that?
McKenzie is naturally creativeas well.
So the harmony that we achievetogether having a creative
(06:49):
mindset I feel like reallybenefits the partner community
benefits epic io as our employerand benefits the TSD community
as well.
chris_1_05-15-2025_15131 (07:00):
That's very interesting.
Again, what a great story.
I did not know that either.
So that's, I've known you guysfor years and it's just, it's
amazing what you ask me, justwhat you learn when you ask the
right questions.
I think there's a sales lessonin there too, somewhere asking
the right questions.
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2 (07:16):
this.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-20 (07:17):
Ugh,
chris_1_05-15-2025_15131 (07:17):
That's right.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15- (07:18):
missed opportunity.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (07:20):
Gosh, no, that, that's through your,
through the schooling and all,really never really thought
yourself as a techie.
Was you ever like a gadget guyor, was it always just more
about the arts and when you sayart, are I hear you say
sculpting or was it what type ofart was it
taylor-costello_1_05-1 (07:35):
Painting and sculpture.
So I have a,
chris_1_05-15-2025_1 (07:37):
sculpture?
Did you have a preference or wasthat kinda like a package deal?
You did both or?
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025 (07:42):
it wasn't a two for one special.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (07:44):
Did you get like a discount for
learning both or?
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2 (07:47):
We're gonna wave, it did take me six
years to graduate with a BFA.
They said, Hey, if you're gonnatake on sculpting in addition to
painting, we'll wave that sixyear for you.
So it was a 2 1 2 for onespecial.
No.
I'll get in a side, Chris.
My I favor painting.
And then my secondary would besculpture.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (08:06):
Wow.
Now I, so a couple of weeks agoI was in New York.
My son lives in Brooklyn and wewent to the Met and oh my gosh.
I don't have any of the skillsyou discussed, but, or I
described, but but no Idefinitely have a appreciation
to think that.
can make these things.
It's just because I don't feellike I have that in me.
And in fact, boo Verde, mycolleague that handles cloud and
(08:29):
ai, he did a great talk at oneof our AI masterclasses where he
just he took the example.
I'm gonna totally mess this up,so if you're listening, boo.
I'm sorry.
But of the change in art, howart was done around the 14
hundreds, the medieval times,how things were flat and looked,
everybody looked like they'retwo dimensional and, what
happened to where art becamelooking like a photograph
(08:52):
almost.
And there's some kind of concavelens or something.
He got real technical about itand someone studied all this and
told, got the guy's name.
But yeah, I'll have to sharethat with you.
You probably really appreciatethat.
And Boo's a great guy.
He's, he loves history and artas well.
This is interesting.
We're all techies and we allhave our different backgrounds,
which is great.
(09:12):
Going, speaking of backgrounds,obviously Taylor you've been at
this a good while now.
A good time.
You got your channel chops onhere.
I'm really curious to know yourthoughts on this.
We're seeing a lot of changes inthe channels.
So from your perspective, what'sthe biggest changes you've seen
throughout your time in thechannel?
taylor-costello_1_05-15- (09:29):
Chris, I'm gonna answer that with a
story real quick.
So back in 2025 I worked for acompensation analyst
organization.
It was a startup
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (09:39):
Back in 2025.
taylor-costello_1_05-15-20 (09:41):
back in, I'm sorry 2005, 2005.
chris_1_05-15-2025_15131 (09:44):
That's a difference.
I was like, I thought you'd beendoing this for a while, bro.
What?
What you talking about?
Just last week.
No, that's good.
Okay.
I'm not gonna make this easy onyou, man.
You're doing a great job though.
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025 (09:57):
So in, in 2005, worked for the
startup really sellingcompensation.
And I started off in directsales.
And halfway through my tenure atthat organization, I stumbled
across HR consultants.
And these HR consultants wouldwork with comp departments and
HR departments.
To advise them what to pay theiremployees based on skillset,
(10:21):
tenure experience,certifications, et cetera.
And that was a pivotal time inmy career.
'cause I realized theseconsultants had something that I
didn't have as a directsalesperson.
They had the relationships.
Then I realized that I had theproduct set right.
I had, we had as a brand wefilled the void of what the
(10:46):
consultants were needing toadvise their end users.
And ever since that day, I'vebeen working with consultants,
VARs, MSPs, TAs, et cetera.
And what's interesting, Chris,when I look back on the last 20
years.
When I think about my early daytenure supporting the partner
(11:08):
community, it was a veryreactive time.
We are reacting to the quotescoming in, right?
We're jumping on demos reactive,right?
We're building paperworkreactive to their needs.
We're reacting to provisioningand billing inquiries.
And when you look at the channeltoday.
It's polar opposite, right?
(11:30):
It's polar opposite.
Meaning we are proactive.
Anyone within the supplierorganization that supports the
channel, they should have aproactive mindset.
And that's that makes meremember about eight, nine years
ago, we hired a channel managerthat was new to channel
management.
(11:51):
He called me Chris, he calledme, I don't know, a week, two
weeks into his gig.
And he said, Taylor, you've beendoing this a long time.
I think everyone thinks that I'mold, Chris.
I think that's a commonalityhere.
He called me and said, he calledme and said, Hey, Taylor, you've
been doing this a long time.
What advice do you have for me?
And my advice to him was, youwork for the partners.
(12:15):
You don't work for youremployer.
You'll work for the partners,right?
And once you have that mindsetcoupled with that proactive
mindset, you're gonna run intandem with that partner.
And that is the most magicalthing that I've seen in the last
20 years supporting the partnercommunity is that reactiveness
(12:36):
to now a proactive mind share,whether it's a TSD or down to
the TA level.
Now it'd be interesting to hearfrom Mackenzie and Mackenzie,
your experience, you've workedfor A TSD as a supplier manager,
right?
Like what, what has changed inyour tenure of supporting,
(12:57):
whether it's suppliers or theTSDs?
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2 (13:00):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think it's interesting.
Even just within the last, let'ssay five years I think when I
came in, it was a very cookiecutter model of you do X, Y, and
Z.
That's it.
There's no other expectationsand you'll do fine.
But the reality is even sinceI've.
Been in this channel, which isabout five years, I think
there's a tremendous amount ofcompetition that wasn't
(13:21):
necessarily there before.
So you have to do more.
Trusted advisors are expectingmore from you.
It's not pay your commissions ontime.
And.
up, go to events.
It's more than that.
It's truly a partnership.
And I think it's good thatthey're expecting that it's our
job to give them the resourcesand the tools and the support
they need to be able to sell us.
But I do think because there areso many players in this space
(13:43):
now, you do have to do a lot tostand out.
Outside of the typical MDF orthe typical pay to play,
whatever it is I think there's alot of expectations on suppliers
that weren't there before to goabove and beyond, whether it's
providing resources or the waythat even your company is
stacked to be a really channelfirst company.
I think there's a lot moreweight behind that now than
there was even a few years ago.
(14:04):
So it's been really interestingto watch that.
On the TSD side, like I said, Isupported about a hundred
suppliers and you could reallytell.
The ones that realized that andstarted to make the shift and to
let me be a genuine partner foryou.
Let me be proactive, not justwait for you to reach out to me
with a quote.
Those are the ones that have,I've really seen succeed over
the last couple of years.
And I think that's a big thingthat we do at Epic.
(14:25):
That's why I was drawn to comehere, is I saw that before I was
even here of.
We are making them the priority.
Like you said, we work for thosepartners.
We don't work for Epic, we do,but at the end of the day, we
work for those partners.
I think that's something we'vedone here as well, is just going
above and beyond to be a partnerand support them in a way that
just really wasn't expected oreven the norm even a few years
ago.
(14:45):
So it's been
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (14:46):
God.
No, those are greatobservations.
I definitely wanna.
that a little bit further.
Yeah I echo that.
I agree with both of you.
But yeah, in the last, severalyears we're seeing this
transition in the channel.
Things have been changingobviously for the better.
For us in the channel.
I feel major companies, changingtheir go-to market strategy
with, used to be heavy direct.
(15:07):
Now it's heavy channel.
Of course, these companies arecalling themselves channel first
companies.
You mentioned that tell me alittle bit more about, for,
especially from Epic IOperspective, what does that mean
and what are you guys doing toto set yourself apart and add
value to the, to these partnersthat, that we all work for?
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2 (15:24):
Yeah.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (15:25):
Who wants to take that?
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_ (15:26):
I was gonna say today.
Sure.
I'll start off and you can jumpin.
I think first and foremost,something that gives us an
advantage is Epic io formerlyBroadsky.
We've been in the channel for 20years.
It's who we are.
We never were direct.
And I think that gives us a bitof an advantage'cause we never
had to pivot.
There was never that realizationof, oh, this actually could be
really successful.
(15:47):
It's been a part of our businessmodel, so every single team that
we have has that channel first.
Mentality, genuinely fromengineering, post-sales,
pre-sales, account management,even our C levels those that
have come even from companiesthat perhaps weren't channel
first.
We have really taken the time tobring them to events to be like,
you've got to get this, you haveto see it for yourself and
(16:08):
understand.
So it's really refreshing and Ithink that does give us.
An advantage of from C-level allthe way down to every person on
every team.
We all have that channel firstapproach and we know that it's
more than just payingcommissions on time, paying your
MDF, showing up at events.
It's things like, somethingwe've done this last year is
creating sales tools.
A lot of partners are startingto.
(16:30):
So maybe before it was they onlysold network, they only sold
CAS, and now they're realizing,okay, I can sell CAS, but I also
need to sell cloud andcybersecurity and backup
internet and whatever else.
But that doesn't necessarilymean that they're an expert and
they can't be in every singlething that they're selling.
So what can we do to makeworking with me or with Taylor
or with Epic Easy?
(16:50):
So it's writing email campaignsfor them, writing super simple
to understand solution briefs.
Offering training, making surethat our engineers are available
to jump on calls with them, tojump on calls with their
customers and really supportingthem in tandem that entire
process of the second they sendus a quote, they're getting that
white glove service, which ischeesy.
I hate to even use that'cause Ithink people say it that they
(17:12):
don't mean it, but it truly isevery step of the way from.
You wanna hit up cold leads oryou wanna have a conversation
with a customer that doesn'tunderstand POTS or backup
internet or starlink, we're hereto help.
So I think that's a huge thingthat we've done is just
providing them with assets, withresources, with training and
enablement.
And even let's say for example,events, I think before it was
(17:34):
all TSDs, it was sponsor theirevents and there's value there,
you have to be there.
But we've even come alongsideadvisors and said, Hey.
Bring some customers, we'll comeand we'll do the pitch for you.
Bring 15 customers, we'll buydinner, we'll buy lunch and let
us pitch for 10 minutes.
Those that you think may be agood fit for us and supporting
them in their own businessmodels that they've begun to
(17:54):
develop as they've continued togrow their businesses.
So I think those are just a fewthings.
Taylor, I don't know if you haveanything
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (18:00):
Yeah.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15- (18:01):
there.
chris_1_05-15-2025_15131 (18:01):
Before you do Taylor I have comic
relief.
This is my job as a host.
I gotta insert a jokeoccasionally when you said white
glove, immediately I was like,yeah, but then you said, it's
appropriate term.
I was like what else could wesay?
And I think I came up withsomething.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I think it's cool.
Michael Jackson glove.
taylor-costello_1_05-15-202 (18:23):
Oh.
chris_1_05-15-2025_15131 (18:23):
glove.
Come on, man.
It's pool, it's shiny and youonly need one.
I, yeah.
Woo.
I don't, I give you a MichaelJackson glove experience.
Is that, would that sell?
I don't know, but I,
mckenzie-maness_1_0 (18:36):
Immediately get the eye roll.
Everybody says white glove.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (18:39):
yeah,
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025 (18:39):
to even say it, but like you said,
it's, Michael What we're usingfrom now
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (18:42):
yeah.
I gotta figure out a way I,yeah.
Michael m the MJ glove, I don'tknow.
I think.
I just thought of it as I, Jeff,if I can use that, the MJ glove
and see if anyone gets it.
But anyway,
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025 (18:52):
We
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (18:52):
I agree.
taylor-costello_1_05-15- (18:53):
might.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (18:55):
Yeah, I don't know.
That's what I'm saying.
Can we say that?
It's a compliment.
It's everyone who doesn't likethe MJ glove.
I don't know.
Yeah I, okay.
I'll keep working on that.
I'll keep working on it.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2 (19:05):
Yeah.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (19:05):
I'll
taylor-costello_1_05-1 (19:06):
McKenzie you said something that I want
double down on that I don'tthink, I don't think a lot of
suppliers
chris_1_05-15-2025_15131 (19:12):
slang.
Double down and
taylor-costello_1_05-15- (19:14):
double down.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (19:15):
Just go ahead and double click on
that.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2 (19:16):
Yeah.
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2 (19:17):
We're gonna double click.
I think it's very easy forsuppliers to say that we're a
channel first organization.
I.
Okay.
Very easy to say, and they mightmean it Chris, right?
Wholeheartedly.
They might mean it, but toreally be a channel first
organization, McKensey, nailedit, right?
Every department needs to be inlockstep within their peer
(19:40):
department, within the TSD,within the TA community.
That's engineering, that'soperation, that's C level,
that's marketing, that's accountmanagement, et cetera.
And once you have that lockstepharmony, it accomplished two
things.
One channel first.
Okay.
Two, it produces greaterdividends revenue, the tighter
(20:05):
the two parties are within eachdepartment, and once you have
that figured out, you're gonnasee revenues create like a
hockey stick.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (20:15):
No, I think if you're listening and
you are a supplier and what doeschannel first mean to you?
I think that's a good exercise.
Especially when you mention allthe other departments.
'cause you're, I've seen greattechnology with a great channel
team.
I.
Fell because marketing wasn'tbehind it, or finance didn't
understand to pay commissionsand clawed back things that
shouldn't be clawed back orwhatever.
(20:35):
You're right, it's gotta be,it's gotta be through the
culture.
It's gotta be a channel cultureeven.
I totally love that wholeconversation around, channel
first, what does it mean,channel culture, et cetera.
But pivoting just a little bitwanna get back to, your day job
and what you guys are promotingfor us and working with the
partners, what advice do youhave for the trust advisors that
are, trying to make thattransition?
(20:57):
And before you answer that, Ijust wanna add a little bit to
that.
Even in the events the TSDs aredoing, we're trying to train'em
on all this stuff.
There's a lot out there.
And even here, even in my role,I'm starting to see, light bulbs
are starting to come on more.
'Cause what's the saying?
If you were gonna grow yourbusiness double digit in
revenue.
And you're, and you don't sellanything new.
You gotta sell a lot more of thesame stuff, right?
(21:17):
Because, some of these things,fiber and ucas, the spiffs are
going away.
It's a race to the bottom, soyou gotta add more to it.
I like to hear what are youseeing in the market?
How are you seeing thesepartners transition?
Are some a natural, are some of'em resisting?
What's going on in terms of, themaking that transition?
Any advice you have?
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_ (21:36):
I think my first advice would be,
there's 300 suppliers plus inthe channel, right?
You don't have to be an expertat everything.
I've heard people talk aboutthis over the last 12, 18
months, that you really wanna bean expert amongst all this
technology stack.
That's nearly impossible, right?
My advice is whether it's uc,cc, traditional wan, cyber cloud
(22:02):
computing, you name thatvertical.
Pick two or three suppliers thatyou trust that are really
leaning into you, that arerunning a practice around your
business.
And run lockstep within two orthree suppliers in each
vertical, uc, CC wan, wireless,ai, iot, et cetera.
(22:25):
Mackenzie got anything that youwanna double down on that?
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_ (22:27):
I totally agree.
I think it's super important.
I do think you have to beeducated.
I think you have to be able toconnect the dots of.
If you're selling CCAS, great.
What I would do is go straightto whoever your TSD engineer is
that best, or whoever you trustand say, okay, if I'm selling
this product, what else should Iautomatically be adding on?
And then identifying, likeTaylor said, okay, what are, if
(22:49):
you're great in CCAS, here's thethree verticals that really
align well with that.
That every single conversation Ihave that I'm normally selling C
CCAS, I say, that's awesome.
Do you want fries with that of.
You should also be adding backupinternet if you're selling
circuits or whatever it lookslike.
Be educated of where can youexpand, where it makes sense for
you, where you're not gettingmaybe entirely out of your
(23:11):
comfort zone yet.
Find the dots that connect andstart there.
And land and expand that way.
'cause I think, like Taylorsaid, I actually think it was
you, Christ of, you just gottasell a lot more of the same
thing if you're sticking withone product, but chances are.
You've got an entire customerbase of customers that are
really happy working with you,and there's probably a whole lot
of other solutions that theyneed that you're able to provide
(23:32):
for them.
If you can figure out how toconnect those dots and then find
those suppliers, like Taylorsaid, that are the expert, know
enough to be dangerous.
Let them do the heavy lifting.
Bring their engineers in, havethem do all the crazy stuff.
Just know the right questions toask to open the door and then
pull those people in to supportyou, because that's our job is
to do that part.
So totally agree with what yousaid, Taylor, of finding a
(23:53):
handful in each vertical thataligns with what you do and
landing and expanding fromthere.
taylor-costello_1_05-15-202 (23:58):
You absolutely nailed it, Mackenzie.
We.
We often see partners gettingexcited about net new logos.
And that's exciting, right?
Like we're all salespeople.
It's exciting to grab a net newlogo, right?
But there are gold in the hillsof your base of customers that
partners, I feel are walkingaway from right.
(24:21):
Mackenzie you said this right?
You, you sell uc seats, right?
You should automatically includepots, right?
Pots is going to reduce, you'regonna, you're gonna save the
customer money and you're gonnabe allocate that funds to
whatever technology stack you'retrying to sell'em, right?
There should be a, do you wantfries with that mentality within
(24:41):
your base?
Because the more that you sellto your base.
The greater stickiness you have.
McKenzie and I were talking toour president yesterday about
the subject of do you want frieswith that?
And McKenzie, he said somethingreally interesting to us, right?
His first comment was, thinkabout Apple, right?
(25:01):
Chris, think about your firstApple purchase.
It was probably in.
And Chris, I don't know this, soI'm gambling here.
Hopefully it doesn't backfire onme.
I'm willing to bet that youdon't have one Apple product.
I'm willing to bet that you havegreater than one Apple product.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (25:21):
Oh my gosh.
Do by the way, it was an iPodactually.
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2 (25:25):
Okay?
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (25:25):
the I the iPod?
There you go.
That goes back.
Oh.
Yeah.
No, you're right man.
We got dozens.
Yeah,
taylor-costello_1_05-15-20 (25:30):
Yes.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (25:30):
an Apple family for sure.
Yeah.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_ (25:32):
I am
taylor-costello_1_05-15-202 (25:33):
No.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-202 (25:34):
top customer in my keyboard, my
mouse,
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (25:37):
I.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15 (25:37):
laptop,
taylor-costello_1_05-15-20 (25:38):
Now.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15- (25:38):
watch.
taylor-costello_1_05-15-202 (25:40):
Now think about that right
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2 (25:42):
Yeah.
taylor-costello_1_05-15-20 (25:42):
app.
Apple has created stickiness,right?
They have reduced churn.
The more products that you havewithin a supplier, the greater
or the less churn you are gonnahave with your end user.
Now, let's flip that model tothe TA and the end user, right?
You sell an end user, just onetechnology step.
(26:03):
Your percentage of churn ispretty darn high, right?
But if you sell that end user 1015 product stacks right now, you
have true stickiness and yourchurn is practically gonna be
nothing.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (26:16):
Wow.
No I love this topic'causethat's what this is all about.
In, in the area of, just goingback to the root of all this,
the I and iot, that theinternet, the connectivity of it
all I'd like to get yourthoughts on, where are people
winning and what, what trendsand opportunities are most
common.
And even another thought beforeyou answer that, I feel like
there, there's a standardofferings that a traditional
(26:37):
telecom that everyone's selling,right?
But then there's the advancedtechnologies, which is what
we're talking, I we spend a lotof time talking about.
I'm very focused on advancedtechnologies.
These are the fries, if youwill.
Selling connectivity, everyone'sdoing that.
And you need to keep doing thatbecause all this stuff doesn't
work without the connectivity.
So there's that.
Where are the, where are peoplewinning?
(26:58):
And just as important where doyou think trusted advisors are
missing the opportunity to win?
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2 (27:06):
Sure.
I guess I'll take that, right?
I, Chris I said it earlier,right?
Let's just pick on POTS for anexample, right?
We know.
What's happening with pots,right?
They're pricing themselves sideof the market, right?
The imex are on purpose, right?
So you can take that reductionof spend and apply it to
whatever technology initiativeyou are trying to sell to your
(27:27):
end user.
Second bullet point, when youthink about wan, right?
Like Chris I, I spent my days, Ispent a lot of tenure at
Integra, right?
And we would sell'em a DS threecircuit or bonded T ones, and
then the end user would wantthat secondary circuit.
And at that point in time, thesecondary circuit was a cable
circuit.
(27:48):
Right?
'cause that was your onlyoption.
If you think about redundancy,it's all coming into the
building within the same highwayor the same conduit, right?
So what type of backup plan isthat?
Really right now, if you thinkabout 3G, 4G, 5G, 5G now could
run businesses, right?
With, especially with theunlimited plans that you know
(28:09):
selfishly for Epic io a littleplug here, we.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (28:13):
Well, I.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025 (28:14):
By the way,
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025 (28:15):
By the plan.
We have unlimited plans withevery carrier, right?
So we can, if you have a hundredlocations, we can look at each
location and determine who thebest carrier is and apply the
right data package, right?
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (28:28):
All right.
taylor-costello_1_05-15 (28:28):
Another trend that we're seeing is, you
know these, when you order afiber circuit, you know they'll
tell you the due date's.
Wednesday, 90% of the time, theydon't hit the due date.
Customers panicking, partnerspanicking.
Everyone's panicking.
'cause you need internet to runa business.
We can get internet next day tothe end user, which is very
(28:49):
powerful, right?
Just think about that, Chrisyou've been in technology
forever, like internet next dayto the end user.
That is unbelievable technology,right?
And then Chris, I also go to,you think computer vision,
right?
If you look at businesses I'mwilling to say that 90% of
businesses have cameras.
(29:10):
I'm also willing to say 80% ofthat 90% have dumb cameras.
And I realize that's anelementary term, but I'm gonna
use it again.
They have dumb cameras.
Those dumb cameras.
Say it again.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-20 (29:26):
What
taylor-costello_1_05-15-20 (29:27):
They
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025 (29:27):
do they have?
taylor-costello_1_05-15-20 (29:28):
have dumb cameras, Mackenzie.
chris_1_05-15-2025_1513 (29:29):
They're dumb.
They're not smart.
They're not smart.
don't have a, they don't have a,they don't have a, an art degree
taylor-costello_1_05-15-20 (29:37):
They don't, all they are doing is
recording an event, right?
Fast forward the business ownermaybe next day reviews the
footage right, calls the police.
Nothing happens.
Nothing happens.
It goes back to what we talkedabout in the beginning It's
reactive right now.
What if we can take those dumbcameras and play IQ to'em and
(30:00):
make'em smart?
That is more proactive versusreactive, right?
So I think where there is a missor a huge opportunity for the
partner community is that voidas it pertains to cameras,
because there's not a lot offocus on it from a proactive
perspective, Mackenzie.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025 (30:22):
of that too, sorry, not to cut you
off, but I think AI is the newhot topic, but in our channel
specifically, it's all the CA inthe ucas ai, it's the chat bots.
It's the chat GPT, and theythink that, and that's where
their knowledge is stopped rightnow.
And the computer vision side isso interesting and there's so
many different things that youcan do with it, like the
proactive security,environmental monitoring,
(30:44):
whatever that looks like.
And I think it's something thatthey are really leaving on the
table that we're gonna see aprogressive in uptake in the
next.
Year or so, maybe two.
Because it's just not reallygetting talked about very often.
I think AI got sucked up by allthe big ucas CCAS players,
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (31:00):
God.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15- (31:01):
great.
We need that too.
But I don't think it's gettingmuch attention yet, but I think
people are starting to notice.
And then the other one, Taylor,I don't know if you wanna talk
about is PCN has started to geta lot more traction with us as.
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2 (31:12):
Yeah, I was gonna, I was gonna ping
this to Chris.
I'm gonna throw Chris the curveball here, right?
Chris, you live in the upperechelon as it pertains to
technology, right?
People go to you and look up toyou because you're looking into
the future, right?
You're the 2.0 versus everyoneelse is the 1.0.
So my question to you is whattrends are you seeing?
(31:35):
That other people should focuson because you live in a
different layer per se and havea different focus from a
day-to-day perspective
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (31:44):
I think everyone should just buy
from Epic io.
That's the trend I'm seeing.
Oh, wait, okay.
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2 (31:51):
gift.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (31:51):
Yeah.
you guys are not paying for thisinterview for the record.
Yeah.
No, that's a good one.
I, that's why we're having thisconversation, by the way.
I, another a kudos to you guys.
I feel like it was four, maybefive years ago.
I don't know who came up withit, but I think I first heard
from Skyler, one of yourcolleagues, the phrase A IOT.
Know The smooshing together ofAI and iot, because that's what
(32:14):
it is.
And AI is driving all this.
Back to even the dumb cameras,there was, they call, they used
to call'em smart devices.
They could take some informationand make a decision on and off
open close.
But now they're not only, beingproactive and, make automating
manual task, but they're makingdecisions and delivering
actionable data.
(32:35):
All of this requires, some logicand machine learning that's all
a part of ai.
So first of all, yeah, we'requick.
Do you guys remember when Ai OTbecame a, was that a, is that an
epic thing or?
I don't.
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2 (32:50):
This.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-20 (32:51):
Yes, the dark ages we like to call
it,
taylor-costello_1_05-15- (32:54):
Tenure Iil, but we,
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (32:57):
That was a long time ago, five
Changed in five years.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_ (33:00):
I
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2 (33:00):
yeah.
We do have to give credit to, toMr.
Skyler Stewart for that namingconvention.
It's funny, Chris we needanother acronym in this space,
and we created one, but werealized AI comma iot was too
hard to say or he realized it.
So he just sandwiched'emtogether.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (33:20):
a
taylor-costello_1_05-15-202 (33:20):
But it makes sense.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (33:21):
Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.
And you're right.
We did an AI masterclassrecently and I was so excited
because we included all four ofthe advanced technologies.
Yes.
CX.
CCaaS, and UCaaS kinda led thecharge.
Those are all very, everyone,every time you call a one 800
number, you're probably talkingto some kind of bot or whatnot.
And then, even how it appliesto, cloud and cybersecurity.
(33:42):
And of course, I came along andsaid, Hey, there's a lot we
could talk about here.
And AI and ai, o, ot,
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025 (33:46):
Oh
chris_1_05-15-2025_1 (33:47):
Especially when it comes to cameras and
facial recognition and weapondetection and even.
a lot of the sensors and smartagriculture, smart buildings,
smart cities mean there's somany things we can go into, but
yes I what you were going toasking about private cellular
networks.
I think that is something thatshould be looked at by more
partners that are working withclients that have large.
(34:08):
Campuses, large buildingswarehouses, especially
warehouses using robotics.
Wifi just really wasn't designedto provide connectivity to the
things that are moving aroundand that can't have latency or,
that whole sticky client issue.
There's a lot there to talkabout private cellular networks,
and it's not for everybody.
It's not gonna be for your,small mom and pops and whatnot.
(34:30):
For those of you that areworking with larger enterprise
clients or with a large air,whether it be a campus or
warehouse, manufacturing floorhealthcare, a lot of hospitals,
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-202 (34:40):
One of our biggest clients for PCN
is a traveling, and I won't saywho, but a
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (34:45):
yeah.
mckenzie-maness_1 (34:45):
entertainment company that streams video live.
They have, you've been to abaseball game or whatever, and
you can't even post on Instagrambecause it's so cl, it's so
crowded on those.
Servers.
And so one of our biggest PCNcustomers is an entertainment
company that uses it when theytravel, it moves with them and
they're able to communicate forsecurity.
All of those stands think likethe point of sale systems for
(35:07):
popcorn and your drinks andeverything else all have to be
connected'cause nobody carriescash anymore.
And then also that livestreaming of whatever they're
showing.
They do a lot of live streamstraight onto the air.
And so that's another one.
That's a great opportunity too.
Events and entertainment.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (35:24):
To answer your question Taylor
there, there's probably a lot, Iwould predict.
But I think you guys are thereason you're on the show here.
'cause I think you're touchingon where we're going and you
have been for some time andthat, that was at the DNA of
Epic io.
So for partners, if you'relistening, you haven't worked
with Epic io, highly recommendit.
Check the show notes, I'll havelinks and whatnot.
But before we close though, I dowanna ask you about a recently
(35:45):
launched new solution that EPICIO has in the market wireless
window.
Quickly walk me through thehighlights.
What do TAs need to know and howdoes this add value for them and
their customers?
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025 (35:57):
So
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (35:58):
I.
mckenzie-maness_1_05- (35:58):
something we've been working on since
before I got here.
They've been working on this, soover two years now.
Really what it comes down to iswireless window is a platform
that gives customers andpartners visibility.
So a lot of times, like Taylorsaid, if you've got those
multi-location businesses, it's.
Likely that they've gotT-Mobile, they've got some on
Verizon, they've got at and t.
This is a platform that letsthem see their sims.
(36:20):
It lets them see their usage allin one place.
Super clean, super easy to use.
It gives them visibility.
If it's looking like they'regonna go over for the month or
let's say for the last threemonths in a row they have gone
over, it gives them that insightto say, Hey, perhaps we need to
bump you to a higher plan.
To really, again, back to theproactive to.
Give them the visibility,anomaly detection.
We had a customer come on lastyear that had.
(36:43):
A tremendous amount of sims andthey weren't using half of them,
and they just didn't know Knowwhat was where.
And we were able to save'em aton of money the second they
walked in the door because wewere able to identify, this is
what you're using, this what's,this is what hasn't been used.
And let's say the last sixmonths, we're gonna shut'em all
off.
If we find something we need toturn back on, great.
But it was an immediate costsavings for them.
(37:04):
And again, just really gives'emthat visibility to be able to
make those business decisionswithout having to do a lot of
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2 (37:10):
Okay.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025 (37:10):
or trying to Frankenstein together
what they're using over here andover there.
All in a really easy to useplatform.
I don't know if you
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (37:17):
Wow.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15 (37:17):
Taylor.
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025 (37:19):
It stems from this whole
conversation today, right?
End users are getting smarterand smarter each and every year,
right?
They want more and more controleach and every year, right?
The days of, Hey, let me justcall my suppliers or figure out
what I have, they'll say Thosedays are done, right?
End users want the control, theywant the visibility.
(37:40):
They wanna be able to predict.
Cost from a it spend right inthis wireless window gives end
users that, that power and thatcontrol to have a hundred
percent visibility so they don'thave to rely on suppliers
reaching out to their accountmanager to be able to give'em
the data set.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-20 (37:58):
Yep.
taylor-costello_1_05-15-20 (37:58):
goes back to that proactive versus
reactive, how we started thisconversation, This shift,
whether it's from a partnercommunity, a TSD community, or
an end user community, we areseeing the shift of reactive to
proactive of having a little bitmore control, whether that's wan
uc, cc, ai, I, ot, wireless, etcetera.
(38:23):
End users want control and wantportals within their tech stack.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (38:28):
Is this in your brand folder or
your online have you added thatto the marketing in the box yet
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-20 (38:32):
They have been updated already, so
they're
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (38:35):
that Oh, great.
By the way, I thought you madethat marketplace just for me,
and now I'm learning It's foreverybody.
Everybody, all partners haveaccess.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-202 (38:45):
my, so my soul
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (38:46):
Yeah, I thought when you gave me all
wow, that's really nice of you.
You made this so easy.
I got my own link.
I got all this material.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-20 (38:52):
Yeah we're
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (38:53):
and
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-202 (38:53):
use your portal is what
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (38:55):
okay.
That's fair.
I like that.
I
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025 (38:57):
If they have any questions, Chris'
Cell phone number is.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (39:00):
Yeah.
Yeah, right.
Go to the wireless way.net.
Yeah.
Any last words?
Any, anything else you want todrop on us before we wrap up?
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_ (39:09):
I don't I don't know.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (39:11):
Are you reading a good book yet?
Are you reading?
Are either one of you arereading a good book or have a
quote you can share?
Gimme something man.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-20 (39:19):
what book I have been told to read
for years and I've rolled myeyes and ignored it, but I'm
finally starting it and it'sactually very good so far is the
one, I think it's by DaleCarnegie and it's the How to Win
Friends and Influence People.
I thought forever that it wasjust over hyped.
I've been told to read itprobably since I was 18 and
haven't and so far I'm actuallypretty intrigued.
It's been a good book, so that'swhat
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (39:40):
No, that's a good one.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025 (39:41):
in
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (39:41):
That is a good one.
Oh, very good.
No, you can never do thatenough, by the way.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2 (39:46):
yeah.
Taylor doesn't read.
You don't need to ask him.
chris_1_05-15-2025_15131 (39:49):
What's your favorite picture book?
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2 (39:53):
Maybe we can end on this.
So I recently went to the doctorand my wife was after me.
And Chris, as you alluded to inthe beginning of this podcast,
I'm pretty old.
So I finally go to the doctorand, he has, he takes my blood,
he does all the normal stuff andhe's I'll be back.
So I'm standing in his room andhe taps me on the shoulder
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (40:14):
But wait, did you have the gown on?
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_ (40:17):
I did not have it down
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (40:18):
Okay.
I'm just curious
taylor-costello_1_05-15- (40:19):
close.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (40:19):
soon.
As I said that, I was like,that's a visual we don't need,
but Okay.
Go ahead.
taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025 (40:23):
So he
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (40:24):
the
taylor-costello_1_05-15-20 (40:24):
kept me on the shoulder and I look
backwards and I see him and I,he's holding a book and I look
at the book and I look at thetitle, and the title says How
Not to Die.
So that is the book that I amreading, and it's a, it is a
book all about nutrition, right?
What do you put it in?
Body makes your body.
(40:44):
But I found it very alarmingfrankly that what he tapped me
on the shoulder, didn't sayanything, and just hands me over
this book that is titled How Notto Die.
chris_1_05-15-2025_15131 (40:55):
That's his job.
His job is to help you, notleast, the die prematurely.
God, that two good books.
Fantastic conversation, greatcompany.
I'm so glad we were able to getthis together.
Thanks for joining me today,guys.
I really appreciate it.
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025 (41:08):
no problem.
Thanks for having
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (41:10):
I
mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-20 (41:10):
This was
taylor-costello_1_05-15- (41:10):
Thanks Chris.
chris_1_05-15-2025_151313 (41:11):
You bet.
And I appreciate it as well.
So there you go folks.
Another episode of The WirelessWay.
And as always, if you heardsomething you like, you wanna
share with a colleague.
Please send it to them.
Share this.
And also check out the wirelessway.net.
There's a contact us button.
You can send me any feedback orrequests you have on guests or
topics.
I really appreciate you checkingthis out and we'll see you next
(41:32):
time on the Wireless Way.
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