September 4, 2025 • 28 mins
Show Notes
Welcome to another episode of The Wireless Way! Host Chris Whitaker sits down with Paul Velusamy, founder and CEO of VerifiNow, to discuss the future of identity verification in a digital world. Paul shares his journey from tech and marketing leadership to building a platform that secures critical digital touchpoints across healthcare, banking, and customer service.
In this episode:
- How the pandemic accelerated the need for secure remote identity verification
- The rise of AI-driven fraud and the importance of liveness detection
- Real-world examples from higher education, banking, and e-commerce
- Balancing security with user experience
- Mental health awareness and the value of open conversations in tech
- Actionable advice for organizations: “Verify first, trust later”
Resources & Mentions:
- VerifiNow's Website
- More on Paul
- Cell Phones for Soldiers: repurpose old mobile devices for veterans
- The Wireless Way website: thewirelessway.net
- Previous episode with Brooke, mental health nurse practitioner
Connect:
- Contact Chris or Paul for more information or support
- Recycle old mobile devices to help veterans in need
- Always verify!
Check out my website https://thewirelessway.net/ use the contact button to send request and feedback.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
chris_1_09-03-2025_1527 (00:04):
Welcome to another episode of The
Wireless Way.
I'm your host, Chris Whitaker.
I'm blessed and fortunate andlucky to have great guests.
Today's a really unique episode.
Now talk a lot about iot andmobility and technology and
advanced technologies.
This one fits right in, and it'sin the top.
It's in an area that I think alot of, you're gonna find it
(00:26):
very interesting.
I'm glad you're here listening.
I'm even, very grateful forPaul, Sami.
he's my guest.
He's the founder and CEO ofverify now, pioneering platform,
dedicated to securing criticaldigital touchpoints across
healthcare, banking, customerservice.
based in Pasadena, California,Paul drives identity
(00:47):
verification innovation throughreal-time biometric tools,
supporting voice, video, mobile,and web channels.
With nearly three decades ofleadership in tech and
marketing.
Paul previously founded, SynergyLabs Inc.
A multi-brand IT solutionsprovider and simplified CRM
email marketing platform.
(01:08):
his background includes someother.
Great companies, where he led,strategic marketing, at guided
software, sun Microsystems,Panda Security, US Lockheed,
marked the name a few, almostall those places.
He led some type of branddevelopment or go to market
strategy and digitaltransformation, as if that's not
enough.
He's also a credentialedMicrosoft certified systems
(01:30):
engineer.
Paul, he's also authored,aligning it roles in business,
reflecting his beliefs andbridging technology expertise
and business strategy.
Love that.
All too often, those two sidesare not talking, right?
the strategy, the business andhow to leverage technology.
So, great job on that.
Paul, thank you for joining ustoday.
(01:50):
how's it going?
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025 (01:51):
Hey, Chris.
Thank you for having me on.
I'm excited to be, talking toyou today and, what an intro,
dude.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (01:57):
I know.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_1 (01:58):
of stuff there.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (01:58):
Yeah.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025 (01:59):
you.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (02:00):
I tell people it's one of the
benefits of having tenure.
You've done a lot, you've beenaround a minute, but you've done
a lot of cool stuff and, that'ssomething to be proud of, man.
You've really done a great job.
talk about adding value tosociety.
I think that's really coolthere.
especially as a tech enthusiast.
I love people like you that makeit look so easy and you have a
great personality.
(02:20):
You're not a typical propellerhead, as I like to call my
engineering buddies.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-202 (02:25):
Thank you.
fun ride.
I don't think I'm done yet.
There's a lot more to do.
just loving every moment of it.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (02:31):
man, that's the right attitude to
have.
You know, typical question Ilove to ask every guest, you
know,'cause we, you have a veryimpressive professional bio, but
there's obviously a lot more towho you are.
There's a lot more to yourjourney.
So what's not the bio?
How did you get to where you'retoday?
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_ (02:48):
you know, it was more of a pandemic
sort of thing.
you know, during the pandemicthere was a lot of innovation.
I mean, the pandemic changed theway we do many things, and one
of those things was goingremote.
So,
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (03:01):
Yeah.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_12 (03:02):
I telehealth was around before the
pandemic, but it's the pandemicthat, actually made me go have a
telehealth call.
of course my doctor's been ourprimary care physician's.
Been the doctor for my parents,my wife, my kids.
So I've known him for about 25,30 years.
So, you know, scheduled atelehealth appointment and it is
like, he gets on video and says,what the hell do you want?
I'm like, that's not a way to.
(03:23):
Great.
Your
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (03:24):
Too much for
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_ (03:26):
but
chris_1_09-03-2025_152 (03:26):
manners.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03- (03:27):
exactly.
But it got me thinking, right?
I'm like, okay, hey, let's set,set aside that you've known me
for all these years.
would you know that it's me thatyou're talking to?
So he says, yeah, just ask youfor your name and date of birth.
and he's like, yeah, what elsedo I need to know, right?
I mean, so you, you'd ask me formy name and date of birth, and
based on that, you would send aprescription to a pharmacy.
(03:49):
Your back office will send abill to the invo, to the
insurance company.
All this is done on a statedname and date of birth.
It's like subprime loans allover again, you know, stated
income.
We all know how that ended up,right?
So
chris_1_09-03-2025_15275 (04:05):
Right.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_1 (04:06):
it got me thinking, got the gears
turning, like, hey, there'sgotta be a better way to verify
the identity of folks,especially on a telehealth call.
So started talking to a few moredoctors and providers.
being Indian, I have access toquite a network of doctors.
everybody was like, we justasked them for a name and a date
of birth because that checks thebox in terms of a requirement
(04:27):
for identity verification.
Go figure.
so that's what got me into,thinking how can we do this
better?
And one thing led to another,and here we are using facial
biometrics, voice biometrics,verified identities, matching up
against checking governmentdatabases, checking global watch
list.
(04:47):
It's become a beast.
But the need for it is justabout in every single thing that
we do.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (04:54):
Gosh.
No, I love it.
I got so many questions, but Igot you, you, your comment about
being Indian and whatnot, maybereminded me of a, I think it was
a commercial or maybe a.
Instagram reel or something.
this, Indian gentleman and his,adult son were on a plane and
the flight attendant turnedaround and goes, is, is there a
doctor on board?
We need a doctor.
And the Indian father looked atus and goes, see?
(05:16):
No one's asking Is there anysoftware engineers?
I missed a couple.
Man.
I think it's kind of funny.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_12 (05:22):
I make light of it all the time.
I mean, I'm not a, I didn't dogood at school, so I never went
to me.
Well, I dropped out
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (05:27):
You must have done pretty good,
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_ (05:29):
out of school, right?
I actually went to medicalschool, dropped out of there,
and then I went to engineering,dropped out of that.
the bar's really high and
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (05:36):
Well, that explains a lot about your,
overachieving.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025 (05:39):
When we go to like parties or events,
or even to an Indian grocerystore, when I meet someone for
the first time, the first thingthey ask you is, are you an
engineer?
are you a doctor?
And I'm like, nah, I just domarketing.
They're like, oh, okay.
chris_1_09-03-2025_15275 (05:51):
You're just one of us.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_ (05:52):
who didn't live up to mom and dad's
expectations, but you know, hey,
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (05:55):
Well, you, I think you're doing a
great job, obviously.
You know, we don't have to plantthe flag here as they say, or,
spend a lot of time here, butpre-show, we had a conversation
and something came up that I'mreally passionate about, mental
health awareness.
I was really, taken by that andappreciate your, being just,
very, forthright about it Whatare your thoughts on mental
(06:16):
health awareness?
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_ (06:17):
You know, my take is, you know, we
need to be more open aboutmental health.
And, more accommodating ofpeople.
Right.
I think, it's still stigmatized,I mean, especially in certain
communities.
but at the end of the day, youneed to be able to talk to
people more openly and be ableto talk to people.
Right.
One of the re I mean, I've.
Suffered from, you know, for along, long time.
(06:39):
I mean, probably a lot longerthan it was originally diagnosed
because, my parents always said,Hey, nah, you're okay.
You don't have depression.
You know, I suffer from manicdepression, and I have, I've
been through just about everymedication you could possibly
take.
It's a fine balance in terms ofmedications, but more
importantly it's being able tojust talk to people being, you
know, that's what I think todayour society lacks is, you know,
(07:03):
everybody's on.
Social media and you know.
The way society looks at you orthe way you have to present
yourself has altered the way youreally feel about yourself.
whether it's PTSD, whether it'smanic depression, there's so
many factors that affect you.
And to me, I mean, almosteverybody has some form of, of
chris_1_09-03-2025_1 (07:26):
Absolutely
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_ (07:27):
and that's not the, there's nothing
wrong with that, you know, it'sactually
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (07:30):
makes you human.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_1 (07:31):
It makes you human and to be able
to accept that fact makes yousuper human.
chris_1_09-03-2025_15275 (07:36):
That's right.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_12 (07:37):
I mean, to have the strength to be
able to talk to somebody, andthat's not just a care provider,
like a psychiatrist or to beable to talk to a friend, to
talk to a, I talk to strangersabout it.
You know, you could see me at abar and like, Hey man, oh, is
that a, you know, what are youpop in there, you know, Hey,
yeah, I've had that too.
You know,
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (07:55):
Yeah.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025 (07:55):
it's important and I think more
people need to be, supportive ofmental health issues.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (08:01):
Yeah, man.
I've interviewed my niece,Brooke Tubo.
she's a licensed, nursepractitioner for mental health.
if you haven't heard that one,go back and check out the first
one.
In fact, I'm getting ready torelease another one.
people go to the heart doctor,they get their lungs checked,
they get their blood work, noone goes and just gets their.
Brain checked.
life in the 21st century is hardand it's not made easier by
(08:22):
social media, by no means.
I think, that's a point to leaveit on there is, hey, don't be
afraid to talk to someone.
Get help.
Get resources.
There's so many Call me, callPaul.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-202 (08:31):
Yeah.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (08:31):
We'll help you.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-20 (08:32):
people to call me if you ever want to
talk.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (08:34):
Yeah, man.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-202 (08:35):
it's, it, it, it really is.
and yes, there's resources,there's a ton of resources
available.
chris_1_09-03-2025_15275 (08:40):
You're not alone.
we need everybody.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-202 (08:42):
Yeah.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (08:42):
Okay.
That's, that's my army.
Dark humor coming out.
even if you don't listen to theshow, I still want you to be
around for your friends andfamily.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025 (08:48):
Yes.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (08:49):
have great things, ahead of you in
life.
So remember that, you know, westarted out this whole
conversation.
Around identity verification.
Of course you're being the CEOof verify now.
I mean, you're a great person toask this question too, I think.
what's the state of the industrywhen it comes to identify
identity verification?
You know what, say you.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_ (09:08):
So, Chris, when I talk to people or
when I'm making a presentationor I'm speaking to folks about
it, I start with, data breaches.
last year, 2024 was a banneryear for data breaches.
globally over, 1.7 billionindividuals.
personal information wascompromised.
that's like, one in five or sixindividuals we've heard some of
(09:30):
the bigger data breaches alreadyover the past years, right?
United Health, MGM.
there's so many things.
it's constantly happening.
I get news alerts on databreaches every day, Large
organizations being attacked fordata because they have data
worth stealing, as long asthat's there, that's always
gonna be happening, what'schanged is how a lot of that
(09:52):
data, a lot of that personalinformation is being used.
AI has changed that, you need tohave a pretty sophisticated
network and most of these darkdata breaches are State
sponsored or foreign,organizations, because it's not
easy to go in and take down aUnited Health or somebody like
(10:14):
that, steal all their data.
Right.
They take that and they sell iton the dark web.
chris_1_09-03-2025_15275 (10:19):
Right.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025 (10:20):
for, Hey, you know, do you want a
credit history of, eight 40 witha credit limit, the largest
credit limit of 40,000 with aNew York City address?
And yeah, it's, it's 120 bucks,you know, and
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (10:32):
Yeah.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2 (10:32):
doesn't work, we guarantee a
replacement.
we'll give you another one ifthat didn't work right.
But, so that, that's whathappens with a lot of these data
breaches now.
AI has made it so much easier toconsume all of that because now
the banks want you to do like,you know, a voice verification.
You gotta say, my voice is mypassword.
Before you
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (10:53):
You done that?
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025 (10:54):
well guess what?
You know you could get AI toolsfor like 20 bucks a month.
You're gonna call this bank.
Hey, wait, wait a minute.
I gotta sound like Chris now.
Well, let me go look up hispodcast.
Okay, I just need five, a fivesecond soundbite of Chris, and
I'm gonna sound just like him.
chris_1_09-03-2025_15275 (11:10):
Right,
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_1 (11:11):
me what, a hundred bucks for the
stolen PII or$10 for the, the AIplatform to create that voice
and boom, right?
so what's happened is AI hasmade it so much easier to commit
fraud, especially I.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (11:30):
know, you hear it all the time,
especially with cybersecuritytraining for employees.
Third party verification, youknow, and in the cybersecurity
realm, you know, they'll alwaysjust, Hey, if you make it too
complicated or too cumbersome,the end user will push back.
They won't use it.
They'll look for, they'll lookfor, sneak arounds or
workarounds.
how does verify now insurerthat, you know, there's both
(11:51):
rigorous protection againstfraud and still a smooth,
accessible experience for endusers?
paul-velusamy_1_09-0 (11:57):
Absolutely right.
So what, you know, we all takethese cybersecurity tests.
You know, my mom's a schoolteacher and she tells my
16-year-old to take the test forher.
and the result of that is whenthe school sends one of those
test phishing emails, she stillclicks on it, right?
chris_1_09-03-2025_15275 (12:11):
Right.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-202 (12:12):
those training programs and the cyber
security test, focused on, youknow, if you get an email from a
Nigerian prince, don't send themmoney.
If you get a phishing email,don't click on this email.
They're not talking about whatThey haven't advanced much.
Right?
But you know, we are, are, are.
Natural instinct is always totrust first.
(12:33):
If you call customer service,whether it's for your bank,
healthcare, anybody, they'regonna try to help you even
though your intentions aremalicious.
They don't know that because ournatural instinct is to trust
first
chris_1_09-03-2025_15275 (12:46):
Right.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025 (12:47):
what we need to shift to with, with
ai.
And, and you don't know who's onthe other end.
Is it a deep fake?
Is it a deepfake voice?
Who is it?
Right?
So we need to learn to, to, toask first, to verify first.
And then trust Vera, tell me,let me prove it to me that
you're really crisp before Iactually help you out.
(13:08):
Right?
Versus, you know, yes, I get it.
Right?
So, so what is Vera?
How do we do it?
Right?
We want to have a seamless,frictionless experience, right?
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (13:18):
Okay.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025 (13:19):
when you get signed up for TSA, they
scan the front and back of thedriver's license, have you look
at the phone and verify thatyou're really there, matches the
driver's license.
We do all of that stuff.
the whole thing is you don'twant an individual to go through
that process every single time.
Right.
Being able to detect liveness,that's the key point in really,
defending against the deep fakeattacks, right?
(13:41):
Liveness detection is thatbecause a deep fake video or a
deep fake voice is always gonnabe recorded.
It's digital.
it can be live because you canuse these apps and speak live,
but being able to detect thatit's not coming from a live
person, but it's being routedthrough an application is a key
(14:02):
requirement to countering.
these attacks.
So we try to make it easy.
When you call into customerservice, just speak.
You don't have to remember tosay, my voice is my password.
Just speak naturally.
We detect you there.
You're on a video call, justshow up and, and we're able to
detect you.
Right?
It's, they're still gonna besome level of friction because
(14:22):
you're gonna have to takecertain steps that you're not
used to doing.
the analogy I use is when creditcard companies went from the
magstripe to the chip cards,there was always gonna be that
delay that we were not used to.
It used to be just swipe, getthe receipt and keep on going,
but it took a few seconds longerfor that chip to be read and
that payment to be processed.
(14:43):
Now that's gotten a lot fasterand now we're with contactless
and everything else, but we gotused to that.
Two second pause when the cardwas inserted and it had to
process that right?
The same way, you know, addingthat layer of verification.
and for us, once you know ofusing a facial authentication or
(15:04):
even a voice authentication,with verify now is it's only two
seconds we're able to, verifythat you're really there in less
than two seconds.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (15:13):
Gimme some examples of some.
Ideal customer profiles.
what kind of companies arecoming to you that are really
like, this is a solution for us.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_1 (15:22):
So we hear about, banking and
healthcare.
they're the most regulated, mosttargeted, high fraught, right?
But I'll tell you, highereducation, colleges and
universities are being hit bigtime.
Our phones have been ringing offthe hook.
We've been getting emails frompartners and directly from
schools reaching out.
And again, it started with thepandemic.
(15:43):
Everything went remote, whichmeans signing up for admissions.
Went remote, you didn't have togo to the campus to complete
your application.
What they're facing is ghoststudents.
And a ghost student is somebodywho's not really there, right?
So what you're seeing is, theseIDs, through these data
breaches, this personalinformation that's being stolen
(16:03):
is being purchased and used withAI to generate the high school
transcripts, admission to theschool.
Once you've got the admission,you've got the school's email
address, you're able to go inand apply for financial aid.
Your Pell Grant doesn't reallyask you for, there's no ID
verification.
You have to prove that you'reenrolled in the school.
(16:26):
So happening are, what startedwith actually the California
Community College, schools wasthey started to see, you know,
what was happening was gostudents coming in, applying,
using that admission to go inand get the student aid, and
they were gone.
And this is now plaguing highhigher ed.
(16:46):
so the, the, in June, the, theDepartment of Education set a
requirement that you needidentity verification, liveness
detection and things like that.
So now schools are all, and Ithink they have for this year.
You know, they, for 2020, forthe 25, 26 school years, when
they're, I think therequirement's actually gonna be,
(17:07):
you have to have it, you need tohave the reporting and
everything in place.
And now schools are scrambling.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (17:13):
Yeah.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025 (17:14):
from the larger schools everywhere,
from small community colleges tosome of the top schools in the
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (17:20):
do you think there's ideal customer
profiles, people out there thatdon't know your So solution
exists, I mean.
I, I, I asked that because the,the, the next logical question
is, you know, for partners thatare working with maybe
financial, legal healthcareclients, is there one or two
easy discovery questions thatcould be asked to identify if
(17:41):
there's an opportunity to bringyou and your team?
paul-velusamy_1_09- (17:43):
Absolutely.
I mean, it's so in, in financialand healthcare.
the big concern is DeepFakes.
if you are a, if you have afairly fair, fairly, good size
contact center, a big pain pointfor them is, are you being
inundated by deepfake orrobocall voice calls?
for example, we were contactedby an organization that does
(18:07):
about.
40 million calls, over 40million inbound calls a month,
and their concern was deep,fake, and robocall coming in.
Get past the IVR getstransferred to the agent.
The agent still has to spend acouple of seconds saying, hello,
hello.
And then they disconnect.
But then they have to spendanother minute to a minute and a
half wrapping up that call timethat could be spent answering.
(18:31):
So one of the questions to beasking is, Hey, are your contact
center affected by, a high rateof.
fake calls or robocalls we'reable to detect those.
what kind of mechanisms do youhave in place to minimize
account takeover for yourcustomers?
if one of your customersaccounts has been compromised,
(18:51):
the first thing a bad actor'sgonna do is reset the password.
That's why we always get theseemails saying that, Hey, did you
request a password reset?
If you didn't, don't do it.
You don't have to worry aboutit.
Right?
If you did, go ahead and do thiswell, because a password reset
right now for your bank accountinvolves a six digit code that
gets sent to your email addressand your SMS.
(19:13):
If your identity has beencompromised, chances are your
email has certainly beencompromised.
And with sim swapping and otherSMS hijacking tools they're able
to intercept that, which means abad actor.
So using a solution like Verify,now you'd need a facial
authentication.
So even if the bad actor gotthat link to complete a facial
(19:34):
authentication, there's no waythey're gonna look as good as
Eucharist.
so, It's protecting theircustomers, their, customer
environment, their customerexperiences, or even at a
transactional level.
if you're gonna wire over acertain amount of money, you
need to do a verification code,it's Outdated, I would say MFA,
procedures.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (19:54):
is your solution a combination of
software and hardware?
Is the software only or how,how?
How do you roll it out?
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-20 (20:00):
We're, software only.
we are omni platform as in weintegrate with the contact
center solutions.
We integrate with the bank'smobile app.
We have mobile, SDK web apps andeverything else.
So it's always software driven.
Yes, for facial authentication,using that biometric capture,
you do need a device, but it'snot device dependent.
It can be any device that has a.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (20:22):
I have a lead for you.
It's a couple years old, but,it's kind of tongue in cheek.
years ago I had a, partner callme and his client, I forgot the
name of it.
It was like one of the largestdistributors of pork sausage and
pigs, you know, and, he's like,Chris, you might not know this,
but in the, pork industry or,you know, I guess what you call
(20:43):
it, they put these tags on theears of the, of the pigs to keep
up with them.
And you were talking aboutfacial recognition last week at
that event.
Could they do facial recognitionfor pigs so they can decide, you
know, which ones are coming tothe trough if they're sick, you
know, are they, you know, whereis this pig?
Is it on the truck?
Is it being slaughtered?
You know,'cause it costs moneyto keep up with the tags and
(21:04):
someone's gotta put it on andsomeone's gotta take it off and
then someone's gotta take itoutta the system, you know?
and we actually had a few peoplelook into it.
They're like, man, I don't thinkthere's no way we can do it.
Too many pigs look the same.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_12 (21:16):
I think we could do it.
You know, we haven't tried it onanimals yet, but I'm sure we
could.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (21:21):
Well, you know, that was a couple
years ago.
I agree with you.
It's quite possible.
I think one of the challengeswhen they come from like piglets
to pigs, I mean they kind ofgrow rapidly and it was just a
funny story.
'cause I keep talking about howtechnology can solve all
problems.
I'm like, yeah, you might havegotten me on that one.
I don't know if we could do thatone.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-202 (21:36):
Yeah.
You know,
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (21:37):
the r tags
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-202 (21:37):
Yeah.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (21:38):
the tags.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025 (21:40):
But, no, it's, it's an evolving
space.
It's, it's fast growing andagain, I think AI is what's
powering, how it makes it easierfor bad actors to commit some of
these identity fraud, no matterwhether it's with colleges.
You know, another big space thatwe're starting to see a lot of
interest is in the online spaceYou know, it's very easy to go
(22:00):
in and place an order I'll giveyou a real example.
So we're working with thisjewelry, company that's starting
to sell more online, and whatthey're gonna be selling is
these certified Rolex pre-ownedRolex watches.
So they're anywhere from$3,000to$65,000.
Their concern, chargebacks, orfriendly fraud.
(22:21):
Customer places the order getsthe watch, calls his bank, not
the jeweler to say, Hey, I neverplaced this order.
My card was probably stolen.
'cause you can see I neverbought a$65,000 Rolex.
Right?
The bank calls the jeweler.
say, Hey, my customer says theydidn't make this purchase.
Can you prove that?
(22:42):
You know, they were the onesthat actually placed the order.
The jeweler has all they have togo by is the credit card number
and the address and everythingelse, and that's not enough.
You have to match IDs so whatwe're gonna be doing is at the
time of placing that order forthat really expensive, certified
Rolex watch, gonna verify youridentity.
(23:03):
That yes, I'm the one who'splacing this order.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (23:05):
Yeah.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2 (23:06):
license and we're gonna look at the
phone.
We're gonna verify youridentity.
when that jeweler gets contactedby the bank, they're gonna be
like, Hey, go kick rocks.
'cause yes, this was Chris.
He was really there.
We verified his identity.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (23:18):
It's documented.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03 (23:19):
liveness, he's gonna, if he doesn't want
the watch, he can ship it backto us and we'll refund.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (23:25):
Two.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025 (23:25):
that jeweler would've been out the
watch and the money because thebank would've clawed back the
money.
chris_1_09-03-2025_ (23:31):
Absolutely.
Well, I feel like we just kindof, you know, broke open the
topic here.
There's a lot more to talkabout.
You definitely wanna check out,verify Now's website.
I'll have links in the shownotes.
I'll have some more informationabout how to get a hold of Paul.
Of course.
I mean, yeah, that again,there's always more to talk
about.
But on that note though, isthere anything you wanna leave
(23:51):
us with that maybe we didn'tcover in these last few minutes?
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_12 (23:54):
I think I did touch on it, right,
that, our instincts say to trustthe face that we see and the
voice that we hear.
we're on a video call you mightthink it's me because that's
your first interest.
Yeah.
That looks like Paul.
It must be Paul, but it couldhave been deep fake, sounds like
Paul, but the reality is that itcould be synthetic.
So.
we need to be reprogrammed totake on a zero trust approach.
(24:17):
That needs to be the new commonsense, as in zero trust.
don't assume that that person iswho they are or who they claim
to be.
chris_1_09-03-2025_1527 (24:26):
that's,
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-20 (24:27):
verify first and then trust
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (24:29):
yeah.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_ (24:30):
you want to trust.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (24:31):
Well that's, I mean, that's a really
good one.
I mean, I have, my in-laws are,late eighties, and 90.
And we, you know, tell'em allthe time, if you get a call from
any of your grandkids wantingmoney, tell'em, hang up and, and
call them back.
Or, you know, we were talkingabout our, we have four kids
that are all adults and, andlike, maybe we should come up
with like a family code word.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-20 (24:51):
Right?
Yep.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (24:51):
It's okay.
What's the code word?
And it can't be anything that'sused anywhere else, A unique
family code word that if, ifit's really you and you're,
you're in a foreign country andyou need bail money, which I
think I would know that if youwere in a foreign country.
But, but if you don't know thecode word, you're not getting
anything buddy.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_ (25:08):
You have to verify family before you
can trust them.
chris_1_09-03-2025_15275 (25:12):
that's crazy, isn't it?
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_1 (25:13):
of affairs,
chris_1_09-03-2025_15275 (25:13):
Verify now.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-20 (25:15):
that's it
chris_1_09-03-2025_15275 (25:16):
right.
Verify now.
Well, man, Paul, thanks so much.
It's been a great conversation.
Very eye-opening.
And you know, again, if you'relistening, check the show notes,
guys.
Check the show notes.
Go to the website.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-20 (25:26):
Thanks Chris for having me on.
You're awesome.
Always love talking to youThanks buddy.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (25:31):
You bet, man.
It's my pleasure.
And as always, folks, you know,it's a wireless way.
another PO topic I'm passionateabout is, cell phone for
soldiers.
You know, if you're a companyand you have, Pallets.
full of old cell phones, youdon't know what to do with,
contact cell phone for soldiers.
They will gladly repurpose'emand give you money for them and
put'em in the hands of veteransthat are struggling with mental
(25:51):
health illnesses.
most, the VA services are doneover a phone.
if you're a homeless veteran,you don't have a phone, well you
can't use the services.
So, you know, recycle andrepurpose old, mobile devices
and, check the show notes andalways go.
To, the wireless way.net.
If you want to communicate withme, I'd love to hear from
you@thewirelessway.net.
And as always, thanks so muchfor checking out this episode,
(26:13):
and we'll see you next time onThe Wireless Way.
Welcome to another episode of The
Wireless Way.
I'm your host, Chris Whitaker.
I'm blessed and fortunate andlucky to have great guests.
Today's a really unique episode.
Now talk a lot about iot andmobility and technology and
advanced technologies.
This one fits right in, and it'sin the top.
It's in an area that I think alot of, you're gonna find it
(00:26):
very interesting.
I'm glad you're here listening.
I'm even, very grateful forPaul, Sami.
he's my guest.
He's the founder and CEO ofverify now, pioneering platform,
dedicated to securing criticaldigital touchpoints across
healthcare, banking, customerservice.
based in Pasadena, California,Paul drives identity
(00:47):
verification innovation throughreal-time biometric tools,
supporting voice, video, mobile,and web channels.
With nearly three decades ofleadership in tech and
marketing.
Paul previously founded, SynergyLabs Inc.
A multi-brand IT solutionsprovider and simplified CRM
email marketing platform.
(01:08):
his background includes someother.
Great companies, where he led,strategic marketing, at guided
software, sun Microsystems,Panda Security, US Lockheed,
marked the name a few, almostall those places.
He led some type of branddevelopment or go to market
strategy and digitaltransformation, as if that's not
enough.
He's also a credentialedMicrosoft certified systems
(01:30):
engineer.
Paul, he's also authored,aligning it roles in business,
reflecting his beliefs andbridging technology expertise
and business strategy.
Love that.
All too often, those two sidesare not talking, right?
the strategy, the business andhow to leverage technology.
So, great job on that.
Paul, thank you for joining ustoday.
(01:50):
how's it going?
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025 (01:51):
Hey, Chris.
Thank you for having me on.
I'm excited to be, talking toyou today and, what an intro,
dude.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (01:57):
I know.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_1 (01:58):
of stuff there.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (01:58):
Yeah.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025 (01:59):
you.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (02:00):
I tell people it's one of the
benefits of having tenure.
You've done a lot, you've beenaround a minute, but you've done
a lot of cool stuff and, that'ssomething to be proud of, man.
You've really done a great job.
talk about adding value tosociety.
I think that's really coolthere.
especially as a tech enthusiast.
I love people like you that makeit look so easy and you have a
great personality.
(02:20):
You're not a typical propellerhead, as I like to call my
engineering buddies.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-202 (02:25):
Thank you.
fun ride.
I don't think I'm done yet.
There's a lot more to do.
just loving every moment of it.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (02:31):
man, that's the right attitude to
have.
You know, typical question Ilove to ask every guest, you
know,'cause we, you have a veryimpressive professional bio, but
there's obviously a lot more towho you are.
There's a lot more to yourjourney.
So what's not the bio?
How did you get to where you'retoday?
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_ (02:48):
you know, it was more of a pandemic
sort of thing.
you know, during the pandemicthere was a lot of innovation.
I mean, the pandemic changed theway we do many things, and one
of those things was goingremote.
So,
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (03:01):
Yeah.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_12 (03:02):
I telehealth was around before the
pandemic, but it's the pandemicthat, actually made me go have a
telehealth call.
of course my doctor's been ourprimary care physician's.
Been the doctor for my parents,my wife, my kids.
So I've known him for about 25,30 years.
So, you know, scheduled atelehealth appointment and it is
like, he gets on video and says,what the hell do you want?
I'm like, that's not a way to.
(03:23):
Great.
Your
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (03:24):
Too much for
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_ (03:26):
but
chris_1_09-03-2025_152 (03:26):
manners.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03- (03:27):
exactly.
But it got me thinking, right?
I'm like, okay, hey, let's set,set aside that you've known me
for all these years.
would you know that it's me thatyou're talking to?
So he says, yeah, just ask youfor your name and date of birth.
and he's like, yeah, what elsedo I need to know, right?
I mean, so you, you'd ask me formy name and date of birth, and
based on that, you would send aprescription to a pharmacy.
(03:49):
Your back office will send abill to the invo, to the
insurance company.
All this is done on a statedname and date of birth.
It's like subprime loans allover again, you know, stated
income.
We all know how that ended up,right?
So
chris_1_09-03-2025_15275 (04:05):
Right.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_1 (04:06):
it got me thinking, got the gears
turning, like, hey, there'sgotta be a better way to verify
the identity of folks,especially on a telehealth call.
So started talking to a few moredoctors and providers.
being Indian, I have access toquite a network of doctors.
everybody was like, we justasked them for a name and a date
of birth because that checks thebox in terms of a requirement
(04:27):
for identity verification.
Go figure.
so that's what got me into,thinking how can we do this
better?
And one thing led to another,and here we are using facial
biometrics, voice biometrics,verified identities, matching up
against checking governmentdatabases, checking global watch
list.
(04:47):
It's become a beast.
But the need for it is justabout in every single thing that
we do.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (04:54):
Gosh.
No, I love it.
I got so many questions, but Igot you, you, your comment about
being Indian and whatnot, maybereminded me of a, I think it was
a commercial or maybe a.
Instagram reel or something.
this, Indian gentleman and his,adult son were on a plane and
the flight attendant turnedaround and goes, is, is there a
doctor on board?
We need a doctor.
And the Indian father looked atus and goes, see?
(05:16):
No one's asking Is there anysoftware engineers?
I missed a couple.
Man.
I think it's kind of funny.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_12 (05:22):
I make light of it all the time.
I mean, I'm not a, I didn't dogood at school, so I never went
to me.
Well, I dropped out
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (05:27):
You must have done pretty good,
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_ (05:29):
out of school, right?
I actually went to medicalschool, dropped out of there,
and then I went to engineering,dropped out of that.
the bar's really high and
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (05:36):
Well, that explains a lot about your,
overachieving.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025 (05:39):
When we go to like parties or events,
or even to an Indian grocerystore, when I meet someone for
the first time, the first thingthey ask you is, are you an
engineer?
are you a doctor?
And I'm like, nah, I just domarketing.
They're like, oh, okay.
chris_1_09-03-2025_15275 (05:51):
You're just one of us.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_ (05:52):
who didn't live up to mom and dad's
expectations, but you know, hey,
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (05:55):
Well, you, I think you're doing a
great job, obviously.
You know, we don't have to plantthe flag here as they say, or,
spend a lot of time here, butpre-show, we had a conversation
and something came up that I'mreally passionate about, mental
health awareness.
I was really, taken by that andappreciate your, being just,
very, forthright about it Whatare your thoughts on mental
(06:16):
health awareness?
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_ (06:17):
You know, my take is, you know, we
need to be more open aboutmental health.
And, more accommodating ofpeople.
Right.
I think, it's still stigmatized,I mean, especially in certain
communities.
but at the end of the day, youneed to be able to talk to
people more openly and be ableto talk to people.
Right.
One of the re I mean, I've.
Suffered from, you know, for along, long time.
(06:39):
I mean, probably a lot longerthan it was originally diagnosed
because, my parents always said,Hey, nah, you're okay.
You don't have depression.
You know, I suffer from manicdepression, and I have, I've
been through just about everymedication you could possibly
take.
It's a fine balance in terms ofmedications, but more
importantly it's being able tojust talk to people being, you
know, that's what I think todayour society lacks is, you know,
(07:03):
everybody's on.
Social media and you know.
The way society looks at you orthe way you have to present
yourself has altered the way youreally feel about yourself.
whether it's PTSD, whether it'smanic depression, there's so
many factors that affect you.
And to me, I mean, almosteverybody has some form of, of
chris_1_09-03-2025_1 (07:26):
Absolutely
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_ (07:27):
and that's not the, there's nothing
wrong with that, you know, it'sactually
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (07:30):
makes you human.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_1 (07:31):
It makes you human and to be able
to accept that fact makes yousuper human.
chris_1_09-03-2025_15275 (07:36):
That's right.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_12 (07:37):
I mean, to have the strength to be
able to talk to somebody, andthat's not just a care provider,
like a psychiatrist or to beable to talk to a friend, to
talk to a, I talk to strangersabout it.
You know, you could see me at abar and like, Hey man, oh, is
that a, you know, what are youpop in there, you know, Hey,
yeah, I've had that too.
You know,
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (07:55):
Yeah.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025 (07:55):
it's important and I think more
people need to be, supportive ofmental health issues.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (08:01):
Yeah, man.
I've interviewed my niece,Brooke Tubo.
she's a licensed, nursepractitioner for mental health.
if you haven't heard that one,go back and check out the first
one.
In fact, I'm getting ready torelease another one.
people go to the heart doctor,they get their lungs checked,
they get their blood work, noone goes and just gets their.
Brain checked.
life in the 21st century is hardand it's not made easier by
(08:22):
social media, by no means.
I think, that's a point to leaveit on there is, hey, don't be
afraid to talk to someone.
Get help.
Get resources.
There's so many Call me, callPaul.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-202 (08:31):
Yeah.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (08:31):
We'll help you.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-20 (08:32):
people to call me if you ever want to
talk.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (08:34):
Yeah, man.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-202 (08:35):
it's, it, it, it really is.
and yes, there's resources,there's a ton of resources
available.
chris_1_09-03-2025_15275 (08:40):
You're not alone.
we need everybody.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-202 (08:42):
Yeah.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (08:42):
Okay.
That's, that's my army.
Dark humor coming out.
even if you don't listen to theshow, I still want you to be
around for your friends andfamily.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025 (08:48):
Yes.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (08:49):
have great things, ahead of you in
life.
So remember that, you know, westarted out this whole
conversation.
Around identity verification.
Of course you're being the CEOof verify now.
I mean, you're a great person toask this question too, I think.
what's the state of the industrywhen it comes to identify
identity verification?
You know what, say you.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_ (09:08):
So, Chris, when I talk to people or
when I'm making a presentationor I'm speaking to folks about
it, I start with, data breaches.
last year, 2024 was a banneryear for data breaches.
globally over, 1.7 billionindividuals.
personal information wascompromised.
that's like, one in five or sixindividuals we've heard some of
(09:30):
the bigger data breaches alreadyover the past years, right?
United Health, MGM.
there's so many things.
it's constantly happening.
I get news alerts on databreaches every day, Large
organizations being attacked fordata because they have data
worth stealing, as long asthat's there, that's always
gonna be happening, what'schanged is how a lot of that
(09:52):
data, a lot of that personalinformation is being used.
AI has changed that, you need tohave a pretty sophisticated
network and most of these darkdata breaches are State
sponsored or foreign,organizations, because it's not
easy to go in and take down aUnited Health or somebody like
(10:14):
that, steal all their data.
Right.
They take that and they sell iton the dark web.
chris_1_09-03-2025_15275 (10:19):
Right.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025 (10:20):
for, Hey, you know, do you want a
credit history of, eight 40 witha credit limit, the largest
credit limit of 40,000 with aNew York City address?
And yeah, it's, it's 120 bucks,you know, and
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (10:32):
Yeah.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2 (10:32):
doesn't work, we guarantee a
replacement.
we'll give you another one ifthat didn't work right.
But, so that, that's whathappens with a lot of these data
breaches now.
AI has made it so much easier toconsume all of that because now
the banks want you to do like,you know, a voice verification.
You gotta say, my voice is mypassword.
Before you
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (10:53):
You done that?
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025 (10:54):
well guess what?
You know you could get AI toolsfor like 20 bucks a month.
You're gonna call this bank.
Hey, wait, wait a minute.
I gotta sound like Chris now.
Well, let me go look up hispodcast.
Okay, I just need five, a fivesecond soundbite of Chris, and
I'm gonna sound just like him.
chris_1_09-03-2025_15275 (11:10):
Right,
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_1 (11:11):
me what, a hundred bucks for the
stolen PII or$10 for the, the AIplatform to create that voice
and boom, right?
so what's happened is AI hasmade it so much easier to commit
fraud, especially I.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (11:30):
know, you hear it all the time,
especially with cybersecuritytraining for employees.
Third party verification, youknow, and in the cybersecurity
realm, you know, they'll alwaysjust, Hey, if you make it too
complicated or too cumbersome,the end user will push back.
They won't use it.
They'll look for, they'll lookfor, sneak arounds or
workarounds.
how does verify now insurerthat, you know, there's both
(11:51):
rigorous protection againstfraud and still a smooth,
accessible experience for endusers?
paul-velusamy_1_09-0 (11:57):
Absolutely right.
So what, you know, we all takethese cybersecurity tests.
You know, my mom's a schoolteacher and she tells my
16-year-old to take the test forher.
and the result of that is whenthe school sends one of those
test phishing emails, she stillclicks on it, right?
chris_1_09-03-2025_15275 (12:11):
Right.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-202 (12:12):
those training programs and the cyber
security test, focused on, youknow, if you get an email from a
Nigerian prince, don't send themmoney.
If you get a phishing email,don't click on this email.
They're not talking about whatThey haven't advanced much.
Right?
But you know, we are, are, are.
Natural instinct is always totrust first.
(12:33):
If you call customer service,whether it's for your bank,
healthcare, anybody, they'regonna try to help you even
though your intentions aremalicious.
They don't know that because ournatural instinct is to trust
first
chris_1_09-03-2025_15275 (12:46):
Right.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025 (12:47):
what we need to shift to with, with
ai.
And, and you don't know who's onthe other end.
Is it a deep fake?
Is it a deepfake voice?
Who is it?
Right?
So we need to learn to, to, toask first, to verify first.
And then trust Vera, tell me,let me prove it to me that
you're really crisp before Iactually help you out.
(13:08):
Right?
Versus, you know, yes, I get it.
Right?
So, so what is Vera?
How do we do it?
Right?
We want to have a seamless,frictionless experience, right?
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (13:18):
Okay.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025 (13:19):
when you get signed up for TSA, they
scan the front and back of thedriver's license, have you look
at the phone and verify thatyou're really there, matches the
driver's license.
We do all of that stuff.
the whole thing is you don'twant an individual to go through
that process every single time.
Right.
Being able to detect liveness,that's the key point in really,
defending against the deep fakeattacks, right?
(13:41):
Liveness detection is thatbecause a deep fake video or a
deep fake voice is always gonnabe recorded.
It's digital.
it can be live because you canuse these apps and speak live,
but being able to detect thatit's not coming from a live
person, but it's being routedthrough an application is a key
(14:02):
requirement to countering.
these attacks.
So we try to make it easy.
When you call into customerservice, just speak.
You don't have to remember tosay, my voice is my password.
Just speak naturally.
We detect you there.
You're on a video call, justshow up and, and we're able to
detect you.
Right?
It's, they're still gonna besome level of friction because
(14:22):
you're gonna have to takecertain steps that you're not
used to doing.
the analogy I use is when creditcard companies went from the
magstripe to the chip cards,there was always gonna be that
delay that we were not used to.
It used to be just swipe, getthe receipt and keep on going,
but it took a few seconds longerfor that chip to be read and
that payment to be processed.
(14:43):
Now that's gotten a lot fasterand now we're with contactless
and everything else, but we gotused to that.
Two second pause when the cardwas inserted and it had to
process that right?
The same way, you know, addingthat layer of verification.
and for us, once you know ofusing a facial authentication or
(15:04):
even a voice authentication,with verify now is it's only two
seconds we're able to, verifythat you're really there in less
than two seconds.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (15:13):
Gimme some examples of some.
Ideal customer profiles.
what kind of companies arecoming to you that are really
like, this is a solution for us.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_1 (15:22):
So we hear about, banking and
healthcare.
they're the most regulated, mosttargeted, high fraught, right?
But I'll tell you, highereducation, colleges and
universities are being hit bigtime.
Our phones have been ringing offthe hook.
We've been getting emails frompartners and directly from
schools reaching out.
And again, it started with thepandemic.
(15:43):
Everything went remote, whichmeans signing up for admissions.
Went remote, you didn't have togo to the campus to complete
your application.
What they're facing is ghoststudents.
And a ghost student is somebodywho's not really there, right?
So what you're seeing is, theseIDs, through these data
breaches, this personalinformation that's being stolen
(16:03):
is being purchased and used withAI to generate the high school
transcripts, admission to theschool.
Once you've got the admission,you've got the school's email
address, you're able to go inand apply for financial aid.
Your Pell Grant doesn't reallyask you for, there's no ID
verification.
You have to prove that you'reenrolled in the school.
(16:26):
So happening are, what startedwith actually the California
Community College, schools wasthey started to see, you know,
what was happening was gostudents coming in, applying,
using that admission to go inand get the student aid, and
they were gone.
And this is now plaguing highhigher ed.
(16:46):
so the, the, in June, the, theDepartment of Education set a
requirement that you needidentity verification, liveness
detection and things like that.
So now schools are all, and Ithink they have for this year.
You know, they, for 2020, forthe 25, 26 school years, when
they're, I think therequirement's actually gonna be,
(17:07):
you have to have it, you need tohave the reporting and
everything in place.
And now schools are scrambling.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (17:13):
Yeah.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025 (17:14):
from the larger schools everywhere,
from small community colleges tosome of the top schools in the
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (17:20):
do you think there's ideal customer
profiles, people out there thatdon't know your So solution
exists, I mean.
I, I, I asked that because the,the, the next logical question
is, you know, for partners thatare working with maybe
financial, legal healthcareclients, is there one or two
easy discovery questions thatcould be asked to identify if
(17:41):
there's an opportunity to bringyou and your team?
paul-velusamy_1_09- (17:43):
Absolutely.
I mean, it's so in, in financialand healthcare.
the big concern is DeepFakes.
if you are a, if you have afairly fair, fairly, good size
contact center, a big pain pointfor them is, are you being
inundated by deepfake orrobocall voice calls?
for example, we were contactedby an organization that does
(18:07):
about.
40 million calls, over 40million inbound calls a month,
and their concern was deep,fake, and robocall coming in.
Get past the IVR getstransferred to the agent.
The agent still has to spend acouple of seconds saying, hello,
hello.
And then they disconnect.
But then they have to spendanother minute to a minute and a
half wrapping up that call timethat could be spent answering.
(18:31):
So one of the questions to beasking is, Hey, are your contact
center affected by, a high rateof.
fake calls or robocalls we'reable to detect those.
what kind of mechanisms do youhave in place to minimize
account takeover for yourcustomers?
if one of your customersaccounts has been compromised,
(18:51):
the first thing a bad actor'sgonna do is reset the password.
That's why we always get theseemails saying that, Hey, did you
request a password reset?
If you didn't, don't do it.
You don't have to worry aboutit.
Right?
If you did, go ahead and do thiswell, because a password reset
right now for your bank accountinvolves a six digit code that
gets sent to your email addressand your SMS.
(19:13):
If your identity has beencompromised, chances are your
email has certainly beencompromised.
And with sim swapping and otherSMS hijacking tools they're able
to intercept that, which means abad actor.
So using a solution like Verify,now you'd need a facial
authentication.
So even if the bad actor gotthat link to complete a facial
(19:34):
authentication, there's no waythey're gonna look as good as
Eucharist.
so, It's protecting theircustomers, their, customer
environment, their customerexperiences, or even at a
transactional level.
if you're gonna wire over acertain amount of money, you
need to do a verification code,it's Outdated, I would say MFA,
procedures.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (19:54):
is your solution a combination of
software and hardware?
Is the software only or how,how?
How do you roll it out?
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-20 (20:00):
We're, software only.
we are omni platform as in weintegrate with the contact
center solutions.
We integrate with the bank'smobile app.
We have mobile, SDK web apps andeverything else.
So it's always software driven.
Yes, for facial authentication,using that biometric capture,
you do need a device, but it'snot device dependent.
It can be any device that has a.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (20:22):
I have a lead for you.
It's a couple years old, but,it's kind of tongue in cheek.
years ago I had a, partner callme and his client, I forgot the
name of it.
It was like one of the largestdistributors of pork sausage and
pigs, you know, and, he's like,Chris, you might not know this,
but in the, pork industry or,you know, I guess what you call
(20:43):
it, they put these tags on theears of the, of the pigs to keep
up with them.
And you were talking aboutfacial recognition last week at
that event.
Could they do facial recognitionfor pigs so they can decide, you
know, which ones are coming tothe trough if they're sick, you
know, are they, you know, whereis this pig?
Is it on the truck?
Is it being slaughtered?
You know,'cause it costs moneyto keep up with the tags and
(21:04):
someone's gotta put it on andsomeone's gotta take it off and
then someone's gotta take itoutta the system, you know?
and we actually had a few peoplelook into it.
They're like, man, I don't thinkthere's no way we can do it.
Too many pigs look the same.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_12 (21:16):
I think we could do it.
You know, we haven't tried it onanimals yet, but I'm sure we
could.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (21:21):
Well, you know, that was a couple
years ago.
I agree with you.
It's quite possible.
I think one of the challengeswhen they come from like piglets
to pigs, I mean they kind ofgrow rapidly and it was just a
funny story.
'cause I keep talking about howtechnology can solve all
problems.
I'm like, yeah, you might havegotten me on that one.
I don't know if we could do thatone.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-202 (21:36):
Yeah.
You know,
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (21:37):
the r tags
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-202 (21:37):
Yeah.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (21:38):
the tags.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025 (21:40):
But, no, it's, it's an evolving
space.
It's, it's fast growing andagain, I think AI is what's
powering, how it makes it easierfor bad actors to commit some of
these identity fraud, no matterwhether it's with colleges.
You know, another big space thatwe're starting to see a lot of
interest is in the online spaceYou know, it's very easy to go
(22:00):
in and place an order I'll giveyou a real example.
So we're working with thisjewelry, company that's starting
to sell more online, and whatthey're gonna be selling is
these certified Rolex pre-ownedRolex watches.
So they're anywhere from$3,000to$65,000.
Their concern, chargebacks, orfriendly fraud.
(22:21):
Customer places the order getsthe watch, calls his bank, not
the jeweler to say, Hey, I neverplaced this order.
My card was probably stolen.
'cause you can see I neverbought a$65,000 Rolex.
Right?
The bank calls the jeweler.
say, Hey, my customer says theydidn't make this purchase.
Can you prove that?
(22:42):
You know, they were the onesthat actually placed the order.
The jeweler has all they have togo by is the credit card number
and the address and everythingelse, and that's not enough.
You have to match IDs so whatwe're gonna be doing is at the
time of placing that order forthat really expensive, certified
Rolex watch, gonna verify youridentity.
(23:03):
That yes, I'm the one who'splacing this order.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (23:05):
Yeah.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2 (23:06):
license and we're gonna look at the
phone.
We're gonna verify youridentity.
when that jeweler gets contactedby the bank, they're gonna be
like, Hey, go kick rocks.
'cause yes, this was Chris.
He was really there.
We verified his identity.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (23:18):
It's documented.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03 (23:19):
liveness, he's gonna, if he doesn't want
the watch, he can ship it backto us and we'll refund.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (23:25):
Two.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025 (23:25):
that jeweler would've been out the
watch and the money because thebank would've clawed back the
money.
chris_1_09-03-2025_ (23:31):
Absolutely.
Well, I feel like we just kindof, you know, broke open the
topic here.
There's a lot more to talkabout.
You definitely wanna check out,verify Now's website.
I'll have links in the shownotes.
I'll have some more informationabout how to get a hold of Paul.
Of course.
I mean, yeah, that again,there's always more to talk
about.
But on that note though, isthere anything you wanna leave
(23:51):
us with that maybe we didn'tcover in these last few minutes?
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_12 (23:54):
I think I did touch on it, right,
that, our instincts say to trustthe face that we see and the
voice that we hear.
we're on a video call you mightthink it's me because that's
your first interest.
Yeah.
That looks like Paul.
It must be Paul, but it couldhave been deep fake, sounds like
Paul, but the reality is that itcould be synthetic.
So.
we need to be reprogrammed totake on a zero trust approach.
(24:17):
That needs to be the new commonsense, as in zero trust.
don't assume that that person iswho they are or who they claim
to be.
chris_1_09-03-2025_1527 (24:26):
that's,
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-20 (24:27):
verify first and then trust
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (24:29):
yeah.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_ (24:30):
you want to trust.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (24:31):
Well that's, I mean, that's a really
good one.
I mean, I have, my in-laws are,late eighties, and 90.
And we, you know, tell'em allthe time, if you get a call from
any of your grandkids wantingmoney, tell'em, hang up and, and
call them back.
Or, you know, we were talkingabout our, we have four kids
that are all adults and, andlike, maybe we should come up
with like a family code word.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-20 (24:51):
Right?
Yep.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (24:51):
It's okay.
What's the code word?
And it can't be anything that'sused anywhere else, A unique
family code word that if, ifit's really you and you're,
you're in a foreign country andyou need bail money, which I
think I would know that if youwere in a foreign country.
But, but if you don't know thecode word, you're not getting
anything buddy.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_ (25:08):
You have to verify family before you
can trust them.
chris_1_09-03-2025_15275 (25:12):
that's crazy, isn't it?
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_1 (25:13):
of affairs,
chris_1_09-03-2025_15275 (25:13):
Verify now.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-20 (25:15):
that's it
chris_1_09-03-2025_15275 (25:16):
right.
Verify now.
Well, man, Paul, thanks so much.
It's been a great conversation.
Very eye-opening.
And you know, again, if you'relistening, check the show notes,
guys.
Check the show notes.
Go to the website.
paul-velusamy_1_09-03-20 (25:26):
Thanks Chris for having me on.
You're awesome.
Always love talking to youThanks buddy.
chris_1_09-03-2025_152751 (25:31):
You bet, man.
It's my pleasure.
And as always, folks, you know,it's a wireless way.
another PO topic I'm passionateabout is, cell phone for
soldiers.
You know, if you're a companyand you have, Pallets.
full of old cell phones, youdon't know what to do with,
contact cell phone for soldiers.
They will gladly repurpose'emand give you money for them and
put'em in the hands of veteransthat are struggling with mental
(25:51):
health illnesses.
most, the VA services are doneover a phone.
if you're a homeless veteran,you don't have a phone, well you
can't use the services.
So, you know, recycle andrepurpose old, mobile devices
and, check the show notes andalways go.
To, the wireless way.net.
If you want to communicate withme, I'd love to hear from
you@thewirelessway.net.
And as always, thanks so muchfor checking out this episode,
(26:13):
and we'll see you next time onThe Wireless Way.
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