The Wireless Way - Business Paradigm Shifts & Technology with Hendreth V. Smith
Welcome to another episode of The Wireless Way! Join your host, Chris Whitaker, as he dives into the world of business paradigm shifts and technology with repeat guest Hendreth V. Smith, managing partner of Mayflower Plymouth Capital LLC. The discussion explores how companies can navigate change, drawing lessons from nature, supply chains, and well-known business success stories like Netflix. Hendreth shares his R6 framework for continuous review and adaptability in business, and emphasizes the importance of both efficiency and effectiveness in achieving sustained success. Don't miss this insightful conversation!
00:00 Welcome and Introduction
00:08 Milestones and Achievements
00:34 Guest Introduction: Hendreth V. Smith
01:55 Nature's Lessons for Business
04:30 The R6 Framework Explained
13:21 Case Studies: Blockbuster vs. Netflix
32:26 Efficiency vs. Effectiveness in Business
37:44 Closing Remarks and Upcoming Events
His book we discuss- click here
His other books- click here
His first interview with me from Dec 2022- Click here
More on Hendrith- LinkedIn
Check out my website https://thewirelessway.net/ use the contact button to send request and feedback.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chris (00:00):
Hey, welcome to another episode of the wireless way.
(00:02):
I'm your host, Chris Whitaker.
And yes, I'm grateful thatyou're here, but I'm like
equally grateful this week.
There's a lot of great thingsgoing on in the world of
wireless way for wireless wit.
If you follow me on socialmedia, of course, I'm sure
you've seen, I had this anothermilestone and I've had a lot of
milestones in life.
And.
And some of them, I just knowthey're big ones.
(00:22):
And this was a big one startingwith Intellisys again, leading
their charge overseeing theirmobility and their internet of
things practice.
And, as a national resource forour partners and our suppliers.
So that's a great thing.
And man, here I am today with arepeat guest Hendreth V.
Smith Hendreth Vanlon Smith hasbeen on the show before.
We're going to get into that ina moment but in case you haven't
(00:44):
caught that episode way back inDecember of 2022 a little bit
about him Hendreth serves as themanaging partner of Mayflower
Plymouth Capital LLC, aninvestment partnership.
His wealth of business wisdomhas garnered recognition from
influential platforms, includingSeeking Alpha, Forbes.
Yahoo finance, goodhousekeeping, a brilliant young
(01:06):
university and data driveninvestor making Henry the sought
after expert in the businessworld, which I'm, that's why I'm
glad he's on my show today.
And we'll get into a little moreof the history there, but man so
grateful for it.
With a track record of success,a passion for helping businesses
thrive.
And podcast shows, apparently aportfolio of accolades.
(01:27):
He continues to be a drivingforce in the world of business.
Hendrith man, thank you so muchfor making time.
And we had to go back and fortha little bit, but here we are
today.
Thank you for being here, Chris.
It's absolutely a pleasure andan honor to be here.
I love your podcast and I lovethe work that you do.
So it's really my pleasure to behere.
(01:48):
Fantastic.
I always say, man when likeminded people with similar
goals, align, amazing things canhappen.
And you had you've done somework and a few quotes around,
how we can just look to natureto learn so much about how we're
supposed to live the same calledlife, and nature has a lot of
great examples of how thingsshould be done.
And it just seems natural thatwe've, we pumped into each
(02:10):
other.
Absolutely, Chris.
Absolutely.
There's a ton to learn fromnature.
And interestingly enough, muchof it, could be applied to the
business world and economics andeven technology.
Sure.
What do you mean by that?
Give me some examples of some ofthe more common examples that
you've seen.
One example I would, that justcomes to the top of my mind is
(02:34):
the example of fungal networksin forests they transport
essentially nutrients from onetree to another tree or one
plant to another plant.
And this happens at scale.
And it just so happens thatthese fungal networks distribute
this, these nutrients in a veryefficient way to bring up
(02:56):
something that you're passionateabout.
And also in a very effectiveway.
So I think when we think about,supply chains in particular
there may be much to learn fromfungal networks and forests that
could be applied to, how wemanage supply chains products
being distributed across, vastnetworks.
(03:20):
Yeah, that's some deep stuff,even when I think about
technology in the world that I'min most recently, we launched a
product in a previous role wheredevice end of life management
and, when you look around it'sbeen a little over 10 years
that, true smart devices, maybe12 years or so this true smart
devices have been, commonplace,it's not, most people have a
(03:41):
phone or watch or tablet or allthree.
But every two or three years,companies, do a tech refresh and
everyone's really excited to buynew devices and get the latest
and greatest, but no one'sreally excited about what to do
with all these devices areoutdated, broken screens, the
battery won't charge.
They're piling up in warehousesand they got precious metals on
(04:04):
them, some toxic metals, thebatteries yeah.
So going back to nature, hownature can, recycle and make
good with, what was now old canhelp bring in the new.
So I think even recycling,technical equipment and devices
is a, as a topic that, must behad about many companies, but,
recycling is a good thing.
(04:25):
We can repurpose and reuse thesedevices.
Absolutely.
I agree with that a hundredpercent, Chris.
In fact and I know you reallywanted to talk about, the The R6
framework.
Yes.
But for a moment to touch onwhat you just mentioned as far
as learning from nature andrecycling, et cetera, this kind
of ties into another frameworkthat I've created, which is
(04:48):
permaculture economics orequitable and synergistic
systems economics.
And in that framework, I'veactually identified a principle
or stated a principle, which isvery simple that I call it, just
produce no waste, but it's what,what's really, I would say most
(05:10):
applicable about it is when wethink about manufacturing, if we
can have a system where everyeconomic participant produces
something that simply can beconsumed.
Profitably by another economicparticipant, we could perhaps
solve the problem by simply byeliminating the whole idea of
(05:33):
waste itself.
And doing that without forcinganybody to without forcing any
economic participant to engagein any sort of charitable
activity.
And just keeping it strictlybusiness and saying, look, Just
whatever you produce, it has tobe able to be consumed
profitably by another economicparticipant.
(05:56):
Think if, the manufacturers ofcell phone companies to touch on
what you just mentioned, forexample, adhere to this
principle, we would have asystem where, all of our old
devices aren't piling upsomewhere because there would be
something economic participantwho would be able to consume
those products and do somethingwith them and do it profitably.
(06:21):
And I think that's a key pointbecause if you're forcing
somebody to consume somethingunprofitably, now you're getting
into treacherous territory asfar as, using the government for
force and forced charity andthings like, why would they why
are we doing this?
Yeah there's no benefitfinancially.
As much as we, it feels good todo the right thing.
(06:41):
At the end of the day, peoplegot bills to pay.
People want to be compensatedand, capital's not evil.
Absolutely.
And the whole system has tosustain itself over time.
So for that to happen, profithas to be.
Essential.
You're spot on, Hendrith.
There's a whole ecosystem calledthe secondary device market that
does thrive and do, they do justexactly that.
(07:03):
And they'll in fact, they'll,they were sharing with me.
I was I've been interviewing andworking with some of them.
In fact, I'm doing a podcastcoming up soon with a group
called cell phones for soldiers.
And and their big moment is.
Taking maybe two or three orfour year generation type
devices that no one else wantsand refurbishing them and giving
(07:26):
them to veterans of, veterans ofall of our armed forces that are
struggling to get back on theirfeet.
The transition may have beenhard for some.
So again what a great, not onlyis that.
A definition of what an exampleof that definition you gave, but
it's just a good thing.
That's a good thing to do tohelp out these these various
warriors that are just down ontheir luck.
And if you're trying to get ajob or you're trying to get
(07:47):
going in life, you don't have ahome phone or a cell phone.
You almost don't exist.
It's like, how do we get aholdof you?
But But now I, it is cool to seethese organizations that, I
think the biggest problem, andI'm glad we're talking about
this one, even on our outline,but so many companies don't even
know that there is such a thingas a secondary device market.
They just, they don't want tothrow them away for two reasons.
(08:07):
One, they have, of course,corporate data on there.
Maybe they have sensitiveinformation on there.
That's one.
And two, they like we can't justthrow these away.
There's, lithium batteries here.
We'll get fine.
That it's an environmental risk.
But there's a lot of options outthere.
So if you're listening and youhave customers that have a lot
of devices stacking up in awarehouse or in a box somewhere
in a closet they could possiblyeven get comp, get reimbursed,
(08:28):
someone will buy them and buythem, maybe, pennies on the
dollar or 50, for an old iPhone,but they can refurbish them.
Even flip phones and some eventhe flip phones are making a
comeback here in the States, butin other parts of the world
where, flip phone that no one inthe States may want, that could
be.
That could be huge for someoneeven a Palm pilot.
I've heard of some Blackberriesfor example, a lot of these
(08:50):
things that are just, you justdon't see anymore somewhere else
in the world.
That's their lifeline, it'sfascinating.
I don't want to lose track ofthe original conversation again.
We've been, virtual friends now,at least since 2022, December,
2022.
And you recently postedsomething that I want to share
with the listeners.
And you called it your R6framework.
(09:10):
And if you're listening, you'llpick up on that in a moment, but
there there's six components andI'm going to ask you to walk us
through them and how and whythis came up, but the first one
is review macro changes,identify the big changes
happening in society and yourindustry.
That makes sense.
I read that.
I'm like, yeah, that's a goodone to do.
Reassess capabilities in thecontext of macro changes.
(09:35):
Oh, now we're getting somewhere.
Evaluate your strengths andweaknesses in light of the
changing landscape.
Now, yeah, now it's starting toget a little challenging.
I felt, that's okay, that'sthat, that requires some change.
So that's number two.
So you got review reassess.
And then the third one'sredefine target market based on
that reassessment.
Determine who your idealcustomer is considering one into
(09:58):
how to reach them.
Now we're getting strategic,man.
This is really getting good.
So you got.
Versus review, then reassess andthen redefine.
And the fourth one is redirectcapabilities toward redefine
target markets, align yourresources and efforts to meet
the needs of your newlyredefined target market.
By the way, check the shownotes.
(10:20):
I'll have a link to his post.
If you're driving or not able totake notes, I completely get it.
Check the show notes.
It would be worth your time.
Number five is restructure theorganization accordingly.
Make the necessary changes toyour restructure and processes
to support your new direction.
Wow.
Now that's where real, I've seenso many organizations really
skip number five and we know, Iknow from experience, that's a
(10:44):
bad idea.
I've, even before I read thisHendrith, I was like, man, you
got this, you nailed it.
And then last in summary,review, reassess, redefine,
redirect, restructure, and boy,love this one.
The last R in R6, repeat,continuously review and adapt to
ensure ongoing success, do stepsone through five again.
(11:06):
What a great framework.
It is so complex, man.
There's a lot in there, but it'sso simple.
I feel like anyone could readthat and go, yeah, I know what
you're talking about.
So how did you come up withthis?
Why did you come up with thisand kind of talk us through it?
Sure, Chris.
And thank you for going overthat.
I would say this framework wasinitially thought of as a result
(11:28):
of a combination of things.
One, from my interactions withclients of mine as a private
business consultant.
And just seeing the challenges,specifically the change
management challenges that someof my clients were going
through.
And thinking of identifying abasic framework that I could
(11:51):
empower them with to navigate,these change management
challenges and then also justbeing a student of business.
I really study business all thetime.
I just love it.
And just reading case studiesand studying businesses of all
sizes and industries.
And studying the successes andalso studying the failures
(12:13):
specifically in, in, in regardto change management.
And all of that together broughtme to creating this framework
that I believe if utilized willposition any company, any
organization for.
long term success regardless ofwhat's happening in, in the
(12:39):
macro environment.
And during that process ofwriting that book and what was
the name of the book again?
Yeah.
So the book was called, iscalled business paradigm
shifting business paradigm.
And did you find examples of, oforganizations that, that, that
(13:00):
do anything like this or onesthat maybe what would some of
the failures look like?
People that maybe skipped somespots, what's the risk of not
having this, of not using thiskind of framework?
Yeah.
Cool.
I think there's a classicexample that comes to mind.
And so I'll bring up thisclassic example and and then
maybe we can also talk about afew other examples.
(13:21):
But the classic example thatcomes to mind is as a failure,
Blockbuster.
the movie.
Yeah.
And also to keep it similar as asuccess story, I would identify
Netflix.
So if we look at first and I'll,be just straight up here.
(13:42):
And so I, when Blockbuster wasgoing through its sort of
decline, I was still essentiallya kid.
But I did watch that whole thingtake place.
And Netflix, I watched thatwhole rise take place.
I remember ordering my first myparents ordering Netflix in the
mail when I was a high schoolstudent.
(14:02):
And then, myself throughoutcollege adopting to that and
still today.
But if you look at Blockbusterthey, I would say failed to
review You know, step one inthis R6 paradigm is review the
macro changes, they failed toreview or accept the macro
changes, the changes that weretaking place in broader society,
(14:27):
and to touch on your space theydidn't.
Review or accept thetechnological changes for one,
right?
There were technological changesthat were taking place in the
macro environment at that timethat should have alarmed
blockbuster as to, Hey, theseare some things that could
(14:47):
interrupt our business.
These are some things that weneed to really pay attention to
and take seriously, Things, justthe evolution of the Internet.
The evolution of hardware andthe ability to put, larger
amounts of data on new formatsof hardware.
(15:10):
And just to put it in plainterms, going from, say, VCR to
DVD.
Et cetera.
And they really, I think, didn'treview effectively or accept
those macro changes.
I've read quite a few casestudies on Blockbuster and there
was a just, there was apparentlya a very blatant just refusal to
(15:42):
accept The implications of thosemacro changes, Hey, we see all
that stuff going on, but wedon't really think is going to
really affect us.
And so they paid the price forthat.
The second step reassess thebusiness's capabilities in
context of the macro changes.
Blockbuster didn't even,honestly, they didn't even get
(16:03):
to that second step.
And those next steps after that,because they failed.
at the first step.
And, just that in and of itself,spelt their inevitable demise.
You look at Netflix on theopposite end of the spectrum.
And by the way I can reflect andI, that whole process in
(16:27):
retrospect took place prettyquickly.
It was one year you're shoppingat Blockbuster to buy DV, to buy
VCRs.
And it's not that long after thewhole paradigm.
Has shifted, but look atNetflix, Netflix came along and
they had the DVD rentals and, Iremember being a high school
(16:52):
student and my parents,ordering, Hey kids, which DVD do
you want to pick this week?
Oh yeah.
Even the smell of Blockbuster,when you walked in, that plastic
smell or whatever, or maybepopcorn, if they had it going.
Yeah, absolutely.
It was an experience.
It was an experience, and Ithink they Blockbuster was, to
(17:16):
use that word paradigm again,they were, their success was the
product of a certain paradigm,an external paradigm.
Yeah.
We as a society had a certainrelationship with entertainment
and they came about and thrivedand achieved success in the
(17:41):
context of that particularrelationship, that particular
paradigm and when the externalparadigm shifts, it creates a
situation where What wassuccessful in the old paradigm
may not necessarily and probablywon't be successful in the new
(18:04):
paradigm, which is why, abusiness or an organization has
to go through.
I would call internal paradigmshift, which is what, hence the
name of the book, businessparadigm shifting.
So we're seeing the we're seeingeither the existing paradigm
(18:24):
shifts going on out in the worldor the paradigm shifts that are
coming.
And we're saying to ourselves asa company, as a business, as an
organization, hey, we need to gothrough an internal paradigm
shift.
So that we can continue tosurvive and thrive in the
context of these externalparadigm shifts, yeah.
(18:49):
And I think Netflix really did agreat job of that.
They they, got on board with thewhole DVD rental thing, which in
and of itself, they were justslightly ahead of their time.
if you juxtapose them toblockbuster.
And then they quickly realizedthey looked out at the macro
(19:09):
environment.
They reviewed the macro changes,which is step one.
And they said, they looked atall the changes taking place and
mostly those were technology,technological changes.
But they were also socialchanges in terms of how people
the relationship between peopleand entertainment.
how people want to consume andinteract with entertainment.
(19:33):
And so they quickly pivoted tothe whole streaming model.
They scrapped the DVDs notabruptly, but they phased that
out over, I would, in retrospectargue was a pretty short period
of time.
And they phased in.
As the streaming, and thatrequired a totally different
(19:55):
paradigm.
shift internally.
It's going from this whole ideathat I want as a customer to
have you, Netflix, send me amovie that I can watch at home
and then I will send you backthe hardware that movie contains
that movie is exists on.
(20:16):
And then we repeat that processover and over again to a model
where you don't give me anyhardware you're just essentially
giving me the right to access adigital movie on your hardware,
which is somewhere else.
And so that, that.
(20:37):
That just really required amajor internal paradigm shift
for Netflix.
And there was, I've reviewedquite a few case studies on this
and there was a lot of internaldebate about whether or not they
should do this.
Or, and, or the rate at which itshould be done.
Is this something we should justjump into or should we see how
(21:00):
things go and then just.
Gradually go accordingly, butthey made those internal shifts.
They made that internal paradigmshift.
They reassess the business'scapabilities in the context of
those macro changes.
Step two, right?
So this requires changes totheir operations, Chris, you're
going from a system where you'remanually mailing out DVDs.
(21:28):
hardware to, to a new systemwhere you may have to invest
more on a larger scale kind ofhardware such as data centers
and minimize, the whole DVDthing.
So there were all kinds ofchanges that they had to think
about and execute and justreally had to reassess their
(21:49):
capabilities.
They had to redefine theirtarget market.
Who, who's gonna, who's going tobe interested in streaming a DVD
versus who's going to beinterested in having us send
them a VCR or DVD in the mail.
And those may eventually havebecome the same group of people,
but at the exact point in timewhen they were undergoing this
(22:12):
change, those were not the exactsame group of people, because
the people who were, wouldaccept the idea of streaming
we're one set.
The others may, may have beenjust opposed to that.
I remember, honestly, if I canjust be honest for a second, I
remember being a college studentaround this time and saying to
myself want to have the physicalthing.
(22:34):
And there was even and evenrenting the physical thing was I
had to grapple with it because Iwanted to own the physical
hardware that the movie was on.
I don't want to give this back.
I don't want to give this back.
I'm trying to, especially ifyou're a collector, there's some
peace and seeing them on yourshelf, right?
(22:56):
Exactly.
It's I want to be able to saythis is mine.
I own this, too funny.
And the idea that you could ownsomething.
In a digital space had not quitecaught on in the mainstream
psyche yet.
And Netflix was dealing withessentially two or numerous
(23:19):
different possible targetmarkets.
So they had to redefine theirtarget markets based on their
reassessment, which is stepthree.
Then they had to redirect theircapabilities towards that
redefined target market.
So there, there were somedivestments that had to be made.
They didn't need to invest asmuch in the capability of,
(23:41):
shipping out hardware in themail.
But now they had to invest inthe capability of being able to
facilitate large scale datatransfers essentially, because
people were going to beaccessing these this data,
(24:02):
right?
This digital data, which is whata movie or show boils down to
people going to be accessingthis at scale.
And in many cases, all at thesame time.
And so they needed to redirecttheir capabilities towards that
new reality.
And they had to restructure theorganization also based on that.
(24:26):
And they didn't need a bigshipping and receiving warehouse
anymore, for example, right?
Exactly.
So that's a great example ofsome restructuring that had to
take place within the company.
And this would have been costlybut this would have also
produced, long term profits andlong term market dominance as
(24:49):
well.
And, the last step repeat, thisis the sixth step in the R6
framework is, that's an ongoingstory.
We're seeing how the company iscontinuing to.
To do this or to, at least totry to do this.
And I think when they stop, ifthey stop doing this we'll see
the end of the company.
(25:09):
Yeah.
Yeah.
As you're right.
They went from shipping, VHStapes in the mail to not only
have a streaming service, butthey have their own productions.
They're making their own showseven, that's definitely a bit, a
product of that step six at somepoint.
Someone says, Hey, wait aminute.
Why are we paying royalties toall these shows?
Let's just go make our ownshows.
We can keep all the money.
(25:29):
Absolutely.
Chris, you're you raise a goodpoint.
I think that touches on all the,I think you're right.
That does, that is an example ofNetflix doing that repeat and
going back through that cycleall over again.
Yeah, they looked at all thechanges taking place and so on
and so forth decided, like yousaid, Hey let's do it ourselves.
(25:50):
Another example as you weretalking to pop them ahead, just
considering I'm the wirelessguy, but I was even thinking, I
was talking to a good friendthat was working for BlackBerry
back in the heyday of BlackBerryearly two thousands, and they
were doing a sales kickoff attheir headquarters.
And okay, maybe this was 12, 13years ago, whatever.
The time that iPhone came on themarket and someone raised their
(26:12):
hand during the question andanswer period with the CEO
going, Hey, I saw this pressrelease at Apple, they're
launching the app store on theiriPhones.
What's our response.
And the CEO said, that's just afad.
No one needs apps.
They just, they need theirdevice for phone calls, texting,
and emails.
(26:32):
Don't worry about it.
And he told me you could, heactually, she told me you could
hear like a collective sighacross the, everyone knew he
missed the boat.
He did not review the macrochanges in society.
It's I wonder why is that?
Is it ego?
Is it pride?
Or is it just not reading theroom?
It's unfortunate.
(26:54):
Yeah, it is unfortunate, Chris.
I think it can boil.
I think I, in my humble opinion,I don't have all the answers.
Nobody does.
But I think in my humbleopinion, it could be boiled down
to any one of those things or acombination of all of them.
It could be a little bit of ego,especially if you're leading a
company that's dominating amarket or an industry, right?
(27:17):
It's like you can get stuck inthat dominance identity, and
really start to believe thatnothing anybody else can do
could challenge our dominance,but I think also it, even if ego
is totally absent, we're talkingabout something that is really.
(27:37):
Difficult to see it to someextent, it requires you to
predict the future, which nobodycan successfully do.
So to cut all the businessleaders in the world, a little
bit of slack, it's reallydifficult to identify, One, how
(27:59):
things have already changed.
That is difficult in and ofitself, even the changes that
have already recently takenplace.
And it's even more difficult toidentify, how are things going
to be changing over the next,four or five years and next,
nine, 10 years.
That's, I think, fundamentallychallenging because it usually
(28:21):
it usually requires a bit ofimagination.
Yeah, I was gonna sayimagination.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it usually like itintroduces a new way of thinking
about the world that we haven'thad yet.
We just haven't had that way ofthinking about the world yet.
(28:45):
And so you're, we're forced tothen think about the world in a
totally.
new way that may even be inopposition to what we're used
to, so I think that's why a lotof companies really struggle
with that.
So Hendreth, have you seencompanies or you have, what's
some ideas, if you're a companyout there listening and you're
(29:05):
like, God, I don't want to bethe next block blockbuster, what
kind of resources would aorganization need to look into
if they don't know how toidentify.
Big changes happening to societyand their industry.
I'm thinking obviously like aconsultant sounds good or some
kind of think tank.
What other, what ways have youseen organizations address the
(29:27):
reviews stage?
A few different things, I'veseen companies conduct
essentially market research, butfocused on consumer trends.
So I think that is a veryuseful.
Tactic to really just get outthere and and identify what are
(29:49):
consumers doing what and thenjuxtapose that to, you can
identify some changes that maybe taking place in consumer
behavior.
If you do that over a period oftime, say two years and you.
Cross reference the beginningwith the end, you may be able to
(30:11):
identify changing consumerbehaviors, right?
And so that's one way.
Another way I, I'm now currentlyin, in my in a PhD program.
And, it's very researchintensive, where they're really
training us to, really dig deepinto research, peer reviewed
(30:34):
research, journaling, scholarlyarticles, etc.
And, I think I'm reallybeginning to better appreciate,
the value of, research expertsin seeing these sorts of things,
identifying these sorts ofthings and recommending.
Possible or preferential,changes.
(30:55):
Companies I think should hireexperts who are able to conduct
thorough and extensive researchand then, not just for its own
sake, but then, recommend,changes to the company ways that
they can, adopt given the,changing macro Paradox, man,
(31:17):
that makes a lot of sense to andI encourage you that look for
the experts don't, don't what'sthe saying?
What got you here?
Won't keep you here.
I hear that all the time andI've seen it, again, I wouldn't,
even IBM has a similar story.
IBM was the only manufacturer ofcomputers and at one point I
read an article where the CEO ofIBM, I don't know, in the
seventies or something.
(31:37):
No one's going to want acomputer at their house.
That's ridiculous.
Pivoting just a little bit backto our original conversation
when we first met I, I tell thestory on the episode we did.
That definitely check the shownotes without link if you want
to revisit that episode.
But, I was doing some, my ownlittle, I'm embarrassed to even
call it research, but it wasresearch for me I was looking
(31:58):
for some good quotes onefficiency and effectiveness
and, again, part of my role asa, an advisor to advisors, a
consultant to consultants, I tryto help, partners understand.
Why that matters and why it'simportant.
So I love a good quote.
Who doesn't like a good quote?
So anyway, you kept popping up.
I've said several times when itcame popping up, I got to talk
(32:19):
to this guy and you were sogracious with your time even
now, so I really appreciate it.
But we were talking about E andE efficiency and effectiveness.
Talk to us a little bit in ourlast 10 minutes or so here.
Why do you think organizationsoften have one, but not the
other?
And is this something they couldfix?
That's a great question, Chris.
Yeah, I feel like this is one ofthe sort of age old, like
(32:44):
dichotomies of business, right?
And I know you're really deepinto this, Chris.
Think there are a few things atplay here.
Effectiveness is broadly definedas the degree to which something
is successful in producing adesired results.
Would you agree with that?
I do.
That's a good one.
(33:05):
Okay, so efficiency is, I wouldsay, broadly defined as the
ratio of useful work performedby a person.
To their total energy expended,right?
What are you, are we gettingback for what we're putting in?
And would roughly agree?
(33:25):
Yeah, I do.
No that's a much betterdefinition than I use.
Go ahead.
I think I think organizationsin, in, in our, in, in this
modern era in our society arelargely incentivized to focus on
effectiveness.
I think we have, variousdifferent incentive structures
(33:50):
in place to promote, Toincentivize effectiveness from
companies.
Come up with, what we deem to bea desire, a desired result, and
those desired results tend tobe, or are largely based on what
(34:14):
investors view as their desiredresults.
And not necessarily what, theexecutives or the employees or
the customers may identify astheir desired results.
And I'm not saying that's goodor bad.
(34:34):
I'm just saying that there's alittle bit of conflict there.
But in any event, organizationsare especially, publicly traded
organizations are largelyfocused on these desired results
that are oftentimes superimposedon them by an external economic
(34:58):
participant.
And again, I'm not suggesting orsaying that's bad or good.
I'm simply identifying a, Iguess you could say a challenge.
And so there's two things there.
There, there's one the, I thinkthe idea that even if you just
(35:20):
focus exclusively oneffectiveness, how we are
broadly measuring effectivenessjust across society, how
companies are measuringeffectiveness is not always
holistic.
And to there is, I would arguea, over an outsized emphasis on
(35:45):
effectiveness that makes itdifficult for companies to focus
on efficiency.
And, that I think that's astrange kind of dichotomy.
A company is, incentivized toproduce the desired results of
(36:07):
increasing its stock price, forexample there are bound to be
some efficiencies that areneglected.
Or I wouldn't say there arebound to be.
There may be some efficienciesthat are neglected in pursuit of
that desired result.
And so I think we want to thinkabout how can we think more
(36:33):
systemically to incentivizecompanies to focus on both
effectiveness holistically inand of itself, and efficiency
and so to tie in your earliercomments or our earlier
comments, Chris, about, wastethe efficiency aspect ties right
(36:54):
into that, if companiesorganizations and all economic
participants are more efficientin what they're doing, you're
naturally going to eliminate thewaste factor.
And if I think we were tosystematically or systemically
(37:15):
tie our measurements of successand what we deem to be our
desired results to that, wemight bridge the gap between
efficiency and effectively andeffectiveness.
Yeah, that's fantastic.
Now that was a great explanationand deep dive into that.
(37:37):
And I challenge people all thetime.
Yeah, you can have one withoutthe other and that's not ideal.
So we were down to the last fewminutes.
Last words.
Is there anything you want toleave us with?
Anything you're working on?
You want to share with us?
Currently Chris finishing up myMy doctoral degree, so really
looking forward to that.
That's awesome.
And really learning a lot and myprofessors are really amazing.
(37:59):
So I'm really thankful for theexperience.
Got a I'm going to be sitting ona panel in in about four weeks
from now actually.
I've been awarded a businessleadership award by a conference
CXO 2.
0.
Congratulations.
Thank you.
Thank you.
You can you can look them up andthen I'll be, in addition to
(38:19):
receiving the award I'll besitting on a panel.
And discussing a few topics withother panelists.
So really looking forward tothat, Chris, and hopefully, you
can tune in then.
Yeah, I love it.
Hendrith, I hate that I hatethat time is not a God, what's
the word I'm looking for?
I just lost my word.
I wish we had more time.
(38:40):
Let's leave it at that.
I was going to try.
I'm trying to, I'm trying tomatch your man.
I listen to you.
It's just so calming and I'mhanging on every word.
And I'm and I love that becauseI feel like I'm the opposite,
man.
I'm like a live wire.
I'm just, and you know what?
And different is not bad, right?
Difference is different.
I love, I just love having theseconversations and I need to do
it more often with you, but man,I so appreciate it.
(39:01):
Great conversation.
Check the show notes.
I'll have any links that we canshare with you on this topic.
Definitely a link to the bookand as many other books, by the
way multiple books to choosefrom.
Hendrith, thanks so much,Marlowe.
We appreciate your time today.
Yeah.
Thank you, Chris.
Again, I'm a big fan of yourpodcast.
I watch your shows.
And you're, you're numerousguests that you have on and I
(39:23):
support everything that you'redoing and you're doing a great
job.
Thank you, honor.
Yeah.
Thank you so much.
And there you go, folks.
Another episode of the wirelessway.
If you heard anything that justhit home, anything you will
share with a colleague or abusiness partner or friend,
family member, please do that.
That, that's probably the mostrewarding thing about putting
these kinds of conversations.
(39:44):
On a podcast platform is we canshare them much like Netflix
does with movies.
I guess you can't share them.
You got to pay for it, but Hey,you're not even paying for this.
So it's definitely worth whatyou're paying.
I think really appreciate youguys.
Check out this episode, checkthe show notes and we'll see you
next time on the wireless way.
Hey, welcome to another episode of the wireless way.
(00:02):
I'm your host, Chris Whitaker.
And yes, I'm grateful thatyou're here, but I'm like
equally grateful this week.
There's a lot of great thingsgoing on in the world of
wireless way for wireless wit.
If you follow me on socialmedia, of course, I'm sure
you've seen, I had this anothermilestone and I've had a lot of
milestones in life.
And.
And some of them, I just knowthey're big ones.
(00:22):
And this was a big one startingwith Intellisys again, leading
their charge overseeing theirmobility and their internet of
things practice.
And, as a national resource forour partners and our suppliers.
So that's a great thing.
And man, here I am today with arepeat guest Hendreth V.
Smith Hendreth Vanlon Smith hasbeen on the show before.
We're going to get into that ina moment but in case you haven't
(00:44):
caught that episode way back inDecember of 2022 a little bit
about him Hendreth serves as themanaging partner of Mayflower
Plymouth Capital LLC, aninvestment partnership.
His wealth of business wisdomhas garnered recognition from
influential platforms, includingSeeking Alpha, Forbes.
Yahoo finance, goodhousekeeping, a brilliant young
(01:06):
university and data driveninvestor making Henry the sought
after expert in the businessworld, which I'm, that's why I'm
glad he's on my show today.
And we'll get into a little moreof the history there, but man so
grateful for it.
With a track record of success,a passion for helping businesses
thrive.
And podcast shows, apparently aportfolio of accolades.
(01:27):
He continues to be a drivingforce in the world of business.
Hendrith man, thank you so muchfor making time.
And we had to go back and fortha little bit, but here we are
today.
Thank you for being here, Chris.
It's absolutely a pleasure andan honor to be here.
I love your podcast and I lovethe work that you do.
So it's really my pleasure to behere.
(01:48):
Fantastic.
I always say, man when likeminded people with similar
goals, align, amazing things canhappen.
And you had you've done somework and a few quotes around,
how we can just look to natureto learn so much about how we're
supposed to live the same calledlife, and nature has a lot of
great examples of how thingsshould be done.
And it just seems natural thatwe've, we pumped into each
(02:10):
other.
Absolutely, Chris.
Absolutely.
There's a ton to learn fromnature.
And interestingly enough, muchof it, could be applied to the
business world and economics andeven technology.
Sure.
What do you mean by that?
Give me some examples of some ofthe more common examples that
you've seen.
One example I would, that justcomes to the top of my mind is
(02:34):
the example of fungal networksin forests they transport
essentially nutrients from onetree to another tree or one
plant to another plant.
And this happens at scale.
And it just so happens thatthese fungal networks distribute
this, these nutrients in a veryefficient way to bring up
(02:56):
something that you're passionateabout.
And also in a very effectiveway.
So I think when we think about,supply chains in particular
there may be much to learn fromfungal networks and forests that
could be applied to, how wemanage supply chains products
being distributed across, vastnetworks.
(03:20):
Yeah, that's some deep stuff,even when I think about
technology in the world that I'min most recently, we launched a
product in a previous role wheredevice end of life management
and, when you look around it'sbeen a little over 10 years
that, true smart devices, maybe12 years or so this true smart
devices have been, commonplace,it's not, most people have a
(03:41):
phone or watch or tablet or allthree.
But every two or three years,companies, do a tech refresh and
everyone's really excited to buynew devices and get the latest
and greatest, but no one'sreally excited about what to do
with all these devices areoutdated, broken screens, the
battery won't charge.
They're piling up in warehousesand they got precious metals on
(04:04):
them, some toxic metals, thebatteries yeah.
So going back to nature, hownature can, recycle and make
good with, what was now old canhelp bring in the new.
So I think even recycling,technical equipment and devices
is a, as a topic that, must behad about many companies, but,
recycling is a good thing.
(04:25):
We can repurpose and reuse thesedevices.
Absolutely.
I agree with that a hundredpercent, Chris.
In fact and I know you reallywanted to talk about, the The R6
framework.
Yes.
But for a moment to touch onwhat you just mentioned as far
as learning from nature andrecycling, et cetera, this kind
of ties into another frameworkthat I've created, which is
(04:48):
permaculture economics orequitable and synergistic
systems economics.
And in that framework, I'veactually identified a principle
or stated a principle, which isvery simple that I call it, just
produce no waste, but it's what,what's really, I would say most
(05:10):
applicable about it is when wethink about manufacturing, if we
can have a system where everyeconomic participant produces
something that simply can beconsumed.
Profitably by another economicparticipant, we could perhaps
solve the problem by simply byeliminating the whole idea of
(05:33):
waste itself.
And doing that without forcinganybody to without forcing any
economic participant to engagein any sort of charitable
activity.
And just keeping it strictlybusiness and saying, look, Just
whatever you produce, it has tobe able to be consumed
profitably by another economicparticipant.
(05:56):
Think if, the manufacturers ofcell phone companies to touch on
what you just mentioned, forexample, adhere to this
principle, we would have asystem where, all of our old
devices aren't piling upsomewhere because there would be
something economic participantwho would be able to consume
those products and do somethingwith them and do it profitably.
(06:21):
And I think that's a key pointbecause if you're forcing
somebody to consume somethingunprofitably, now you're getting
into treacherous territory asfar as, using the government for
force and forced charity andthings like, why would they why
are we doing this?
Yeah there's no benefitfinancially.
As much as we, it feels good todo the right thing.
(06:41):
At the end of the day, peoplegot bills to pay.
People want to be compensatedand, capital's not evil.
Absolutely.
And the whole system has tosustain itself over time.
So for that to happen, profithas to be.
Essential.
You're spot on, Hendrith.
There's a whole ecosystem calledthe secondary device market that
does thrive and do, they do justexactly that.
(07:03):
And they'll in fact, they'll,they were sharing with me.
I was I've been interviewing andworking with some of them.
In fact, I'm doing a podcastcoming up soon with a group
called cell phones for soldiers.
And and their big moment is.
Taking maybe two or three orfour year generation type
devices that no one else wantsand refurbishing them and giving
(07:26):
them to veterans of, veterans ofall of our armed forces that are
struggling to get back on theirfeet.
The transition may have beenhard for some.
So again what a great, not onlyis that.
A definition of what an exampleof that definition you gave, but
it's just a good thing.
That's a good thing to do tohelp out these these various
warriors that are just down ontheir luck.
And if you're trying to get ajob or you're trying to get
(07:47):
going in life, you don't have ahome phone or a cell phone.
You almost don't exist.
It's like, how do we get aholdof you?
But But now I, it is cool to seethese organizations that, I
think the biggest problem, andI'm glad we're talking about
this one, even on our outline,but so many companies don't even
know that there is such a thingas a secondary device market.
They just, they don't want tothrow them away for two reasons.
(08:07):
One, they have, of course,corporate data on there.
Maybe they have sensitiveinformation on there.
That's one.
And two, they like we can't justthrow these away.
There's, lithium batteries here.
We'll get fine.
That it's an environmental risk.
But there's a lot of options outthere.
So if you're listening and youhave customers that have a lot
of devices stacking up in awarehouse or in a box somewhere
in a closet they could possiblyeven get comp, get reimbursed,
(08:28):
someone will buy them and buythem, maybe, pennies on the
dollar or 50, for an old iPhone,but they can refurbish them.
Even flip phones and some eventhe flip phones are making a
comeback here in the States, butin other parts of the world
where, flip phone that no one inthe States may want, that could
be.
That could be huge for someoneeven a Palm pilot.
I've heard of some Blackberriesfor example, a lot of these
(08:50):
things that are just, you justdon't see anymore somewhere else
in the world.
That's their lifeline, it'sfascinating.
I don't want to lose track ofthe original conversation again.
We've been, virtual friends now,at least since 2022, December,
2022.
And you recently postedsomething that I want to share
with the listeners.
And you called it your R6framework.
(09:10):
And if you're listening, you'llpick up on that in a moment, but
there there's six components andI'm going to ask you to walk us
through them and how and whythis came up, but the first one
is review macro changes,identify the big changes
happening in society and yourindustry.
That makes sense.
I read that.
I'm like, yeah, that's a goodone to do.
Reassess capabilities in thecontext of macro changes.
(09:35):
Oh, now we're getting somewhere.
Evaluate your strengths andweaknesses in light of the
changing landscape.
Now, yeah, now it's starting toget a little challenging.
I felt, that's okay, that'sthat, that requires some change.
So that's number two.
So you got review reassess.
And then the third one'sredefine target market based on
that reassessment.
Determine who your idealcustomer is considering one into
(09:58):
how to reach them.
Now we're getting strategic,man.
This is really getting good.
So you got.
Versus review, then reassess andthen redefine.
And the fourth one is redirectcapabilities toward redefine
target markets, align yourresources and efforts to meet
the needs of your newlyredefined target market.
By the way, check the shownotes.
(10:20):
I'll have a link to his post.
If you're driving or not able totake notes, I completely get it.
Check the show notes.
It would be worth your time.
Number five is restructure theorganization accordingly.
Make the necessary changes toyour restructure and processes
to support your new direction.
Wow.
Now that's where real, I've seenso many organizations really
skip number five and we know, Iknow from experience, that's a
(10:44):
bad idea.
I've, even before I read thisHendrith, I was like, man, you
got this, you nailed it.
And then last in summary,review, reassess, redefine,
redirect, restructure, and boy,love this one.
The last R in R6, repeat,continuously review and adapt to
ensure ongoing success, do stepsone through five again.
(11:06):
What a great framework.
It is so complex, man.
There's a lot in there, but it'sso simple.
I feel like anyone could readthat and go, yeah, I know what
you're talking about.
So how did you come up withthis?
Why did you come up with thisand kind of talk us through it?
Sure, Chris.
And thank you for going overthat.
I would say this framework wasinitially thought of as a result
(11:28):
of a combination of things.
One, from my interactions withclients of mine as a private
business consultant.
And just seeing the challenges,specifically the change
management challenges that someof my clients were going
through.
And thinking of identifying abasic framework that I could
(11:51):
empower them with to navigate,these change management
challenges and then also justbeing a student of business.
I really study business all thetime.
I just love it.
And just reading case studiesand studying businesses of all
sizes and industries.
And studying the successes andalso studying the failures
(12:13):
specifically in, in, in regardto change management.
And all of that together broughtme to creating this framework
that I believe if utilized willposition any company, any
organization for.
long term success regardless ofwhat's happening in, in the
(12:39):
macro environment.
And during that process ofwriting that book and what was
the name of the book again?
Yeah.
So the book was called, iscalled business paradigm
shifting business paradigm.
And did you find examples of, oforganizations that, that, that
(13:00):
do anything like this or onesthat maybe what would some of
the failures look like?
People that maybe skipped somespots, what's the risk of not
having this, of not using thiskind of framework?
Yeah.
Cool.
I think there's a classicexample that comes to mind.
And so I'll bring up thisclassic example and and then
maybe we can also talk about afew other examples.
(13:21):
But the classic example thatcomes to mind is as a failure,
Blockbuster.
the movie.
Yeah.
And also to keep it similar as asuccess story, I would identify
Netflix.
So if we look at first and I'll,be just straight up here.
(13:42):
And so I, when Blockbuster wasgoing through its sort of
decline, I was still essentiallya kid.
But I did watch that whole thingtake place.
And Netflix, I watched thatwhole rise take place.
I remember ordering my first myparents ordering Netflix in the
mail when I was a high schoolstudent.
(14:02):
And then, myself throughoutcollege adopting to that and
still today.
But if you look at Blockbusterthey, I would say failed to
review You know, step one inthis R6 paradigm is review the
macro changes, they failed toreview or accept the macro
changes, the changes that weretaking place in broader society,
(14:27):
and to touch on your space theydidn't.
Review or accept thetechnological changes for one,
right?
There were technological changesthat were taking place in the
macro environment at that timethat should have alarmed
blockbuster as to, Hey, theseare some things that could
(14:47):
interrupt our business.
These are some things that weneed to really pay attention to
and take seriously, Things, justthe evolution of the Internet.
The evolution of hardware andthe ability to put, larger
amounts of data on new formatsof hardware.
(15:10):
And just to put it in plainterms, going from, say, VCR to
DVD.
Et cetera.
And they really, I think, didn'treview effectively or accept
those macro changes.
I've read quite a few casestudies on Blockbuster and there
was a just, there was apparentlya a very blatant just refusal to
(15:42):
accept The implications of thosemacro changes, Hey, we see all
that stuff going on, but wedon't really think is going to
really affect us.
And so they paid the price forthat.
The second step reassess thebusiness's capabilities in
context of the macro changes.
Blockbuster didn't even,honestly, they didn't even get
(16:03):
to that second step.
And those next steps after that,because they failed.
at the first step.
And, just that in and of itself,spelt their inevitable demise.
You look at Netflix on theopposite end of the spectrum.
And by the way I can reflect andI, that whole process in
(16:27):
retrospect took place prettyquickly.
It was one year you're shoppingat Blockbuster to buy DV, to buy
VCRs.
And it's not that long after thewhole paradigm.
Has shifted, but look atNetflix, Netflix came along and
they had the DVD rentals and, Iremember being a high school
(16:52):
student and my parents,ordering, Hey kids, which DVD do
you want to pick this week?
Oh yeah.
Even the smell of Blockbuster,when you walked in, that plastic
smell or whatever, or maybepopcorn, if they had it going.
Yeah, absolutely.
It was an experience.
It was an experience, and Ithink they Blockbuster was, to
(17:16):
use that word paradigm again,they were, their success was the
product of a certain paradigm,an external paradigm.
Yeah.
We as a society had a certainrelationship with entertainment
and they came about and thrivedand achieved success in the
(17:41):
context of that particularrelationship, that particular
paradigm and when the externalparadigm shifts, it creates a
situation where What wassuccessful in the old paradigm
may not necessarily and probablywon't be successful in the new
(18:04):
paradigm, which is why, abusiness or an organization has
to go through.
I would call internal paradigmshift, which is what, hence the
name of the book, businessparadigm shifting.
So we're seeing the we're seeingeither the existing paradigm
(18:24):
shifts going on out in the worldor the paradigm shifts that are
coming.
And we're saying to ourselves asa company, as a business, as an
organization, hey, we need to gothrough an internal paradigm
shift.
So that we can continue tosurvive and thrive in the
context of these externalparadigm shifts, yeah.
(18:49):
And I think Netflix really did agreat job of that.
They they, got on board with thewhole DVD rental thing, which in
and of itself, they were justslightly ahead of their time.
if you juxtapose them toblockbuster.
And then they quickly realizedthey looked out at the macro
(19:09):
environment.
They reviewed the macro changes,which is step one.
And they said, they looked atall the changes taking place and
mostly those were technology,technological changes.
But they were also socialchanges in terms of how people
the relationship between peopleand entertainment.
how people want to consume andinteract with entertainment.
(19:33):
And so they quickly pivoted tothe whole streaming model.
They scrapped the DVDs notabruptly, but they phased that
out over, I would, in retrospectargue was a pretty short period
of time.
And they phased in.
As the streaming, and thatrequired a totally different
(19:55):
paradigm.
shift internally.
It's going from this whole ideathat I want as a customer to
have you, Netflix, send me amovie that I can watch at home
and then I will send you backthe hardware that movie contains
that movie is exists on.
(20:16):
And then we repeat that processover and over again to a model
where you don't give me anyhardware you're just essentially
giving me the right to access adigital movie on your hardware,
which is somewhere else.
And so that, that.
(20:37):
That just really required amajor internal paradigm shift
for Netflix.
And there was, I've reviewedquite a few case studies on this
and there was a lot of internaldebate about whether or not they
should do this.
Or, and, or the rate at which itshould be done.
Is this something we should justjump into or should we see how
(21:00):
things go and then just.
Gradually go accordingly, butthey made those internal shifts.
They made that internal paradigmshift.
They reassess the business'scapabilities in the context of
those macro changes.
Step two, right?
So this requires changes totheir operations, Chris, you're
going from a system where you'remanually mailing out DVDs.
(21:28):
hardware to, to a new systemwhere you may have to invest
more on a larger scale kind ofhardware such as data centers
and minimize, the whole DVDthing.
So there were all kinds ofchanges that they had to think
about and execute and justreally had to reassess their
(21:49):
capabilities.
They had to redefine theirtarget market.
Who, who's gonna, who's going tobe interested in streaming a DVD
versus who's going to beinterested in having us send
them a VCR or DVD in the mail.
And those may eventually havebecome the same group of people,
but at the exact point in timewhen they were undergoing this
(22:12):
change, those were not the exactsame group of people, because
the people who were, wouldaccept the idea of streaming
we're one set.
The others may, may have beenjust opposed to that.
I remember, honestly, if I canjust be honest for a second, I
remember being a college studentaround this time and saying to
myself want to have the physicalthing.
(22:34):
And there was even and evenrenting the physical thing was I
had to grapple with it because Iwanted to own the physical
hardware that the movie was on.
I don't want to give this back.
I don't want to give this back.
I'm trying to, especially ifyou're a collector, there's some
peace and seeing them on yourshelf, right?
(22:56):
Exactly.
It's I want to be able to saythis is mine.
I own this, too funny.
And the idea that you could ownsomething.
In a digital space had not quitecaught on in the mainstream
psyche yet.
And Netflix was dealing withessentially two or numerous
(23:19):
different possible targetmarkets.
So they had to redefine theirtarget markets based on their
reassessment, which is stepthree.
Then they had to redirect theircapabilities towards that
redefined target market.
So there, there were somedivestments that had to be made.
They didn't need to invest asmuch in the capability of,
(23:41):
shipping out hardware in themail.
But now they had to invest inthe capability of being able to
facilitate large scale datatransfers essentially, because
people were going to beaccessing these this data,
(24:02):
right?
This digital data, which is whata movie or show boils down to
people going to be accessingthis at scale.
And in many cases, all at thesame time.
And so they needed to redirecttheir capabilities towards that
new reality.
And they had to restructure theorganization also based on that.
(24:26):
And they didn't need a bigshipping and receiving warehouse
anymore, for example, right?
Exactly.
So that's a great example ofsome restructuring that had to
take place within the company.
And this would have been costlybut this would have also
produced, long term profits andlong term market dominance as
(24:49):
well.
And, the last step repeat, thisis the sixth step in the R6
framework is, that's an ongoingstory.
We're seeing how the company iscontinuing to.
To do this or to, at least totry to do this.
And I think when they stop, ifthey stop doing this we'll see
the end of the company.
(25:09):
Yeah.
Yeah.
As you're right.
They went from shipping, VHStapes in the mail to not only
have a streaming service, butthey have their own productions.
They're making their own showseven, that's definitely a bit, a
product of that step six at somepoint.
Someone says, Hey, wait aminute.
Why are we paying royalties toall these shows?
Let's just go make our ownshows.
We can keep all the money.
(25:29):
Absolutely.
Chris, you're you raise a goodpoint.
I think that touches on all the,I think you're right.
That does, that is an example ofNetflix doing that repeat and
going back through that cycleall over again.
Yeah, they looked at all thechanges taking place and so on
and so forth decided, like yousaid, Hey let's do it ourselves.
(25:50):
Another example as you weretalking to pop them ahead, just
considering I'm the wirelessguy, but I was even thinking, I
was talking to a good friendthat was working for BlackBerry
back in the heyday of BlackBerryearly two thousands, and they
were doing a sales kickoff attheir headquarters.
And okay, maybe this was 12, 13years ago, whatever.
The time that iPhone came on themarket and someone raised their
(26:12):
hand during the question andanswer period with the CEO
going, Hey, I saw this pressrelease at Apple, they're
launching the app store on theiriPhones.
What's our response.
And the CEO said, that's just afad.
No one needs apps.
They just, they need theirdevice for phone calls, texting,
and emails.
(26:32):
Don't worry about it.
And he told me you could, heactually, she told me you could
hear like a collective sighacross the, everyone knew he
missed the boat.
He did not review the macrochanges in society.
It's I wonder why is that?
Is it ego?
Is it pride?
Or is it just not reading theroom?
It's unfortunate.
(26:54):
Yeah, it is unfortunate, Chris.
I think it can boil.
I think I, in my humble opinion,I don't have all the answers.
Nobody does.
But I think in my humbleopinion, it could be boiled down
to any one of those things or acombination of all of them.
It could be a little bit of ego,especially if you're leading a
company that's dominating amarket or an industry, right?
(27:17):
It's like you can get stuck inthat dominance identity, and
really start to believe thatnothing anybody else can do
could challenge our dominance,but I think also it, even if ego
is totally absent, we're talkingabout something that is really.
(27:37):
Difficult to see it to someextent, it requires you to
predict the future, which nobodycan successfully do.
So to cut all the businessleaders in the world, a little
bit of slack, it's reallydifficult to identify, One, how
(27:59):
things have already changed.
That is difficult in and ofitself, even the changes that
have already recently takenplace.
And it's even more difficult toidentify, how are things going
to be changing over the next,four or five years and next,
nine, 10 years.
That's, I think, fundamentallychallenging because it usually
(28:21):
it usually requires a bit ofimagination.
Yeah, I was gonna sayimagination.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it usually like itintroduces a new way of thinking
about the world that we haven'thad yet.
We just haven't had that way ofthinking about the world yet.
(28:45):
And so you're, we're forced tothen think about the world in a
totally.
new way that may even be inopposition to what we're used
to, so I think that's why a lotof companies really struggle
with that.
So Hendreth, have you seencompanies or you have, what's
some ideas, if you're a companyout there listening and you're
(29:05):
like, God, I don't want to bethe next block blockbuster, what
kind of resources would aorganization need to look into
if they don't know how toidentify.
Big changes happening to societyand their industry.
I'm thinking obviously like aconsultant sounds good or some
kind of think tank.
What other, what ways have youseen organizations address the
(29:27):
reviews stage?
A few different things, I'veseen companies conduct
essentially market research, butfocused on consumer trends.
So I think that is a veryuseful.
Tactic to really just get outthere and and identify what are
(29:49):
consumers doing what and thenjuxtapose that to, you can
identify some changes that maybe taking place in consumer
behavior.
If you do that over a period oftime, say two years and you.
Cross reference the beginningwith the end, you may be able to
(30:11):
identify changing consumerbehaviors, right?
And so that's one way.
Another way I, I'm now currentlyin, in my in a PhD program.
And, it's very researchintensive, where they're really
training us to, really dig deepinto research, peer reviewed
(30:34):
research, journaling, scholarlyarticles, etc.
And, I think I'm reallybeginning to better appreciate,
the value of, research expertsin seeing these sorts of things,
identifying these sorts ofthings and recommending.
Possible or preferential,changes.
(30:55):
Companies I think should hireexperts who are able to conduct
thorough and extensive researchand then, not just for its own
sake, but then, recommend,changes to the company ways that
they can, adopt given the,changing macro Paradox, man,
(31:17):
that makes a lot of sense to andI encourage you that look for
the experts don't, don't what'sthe saying?
What got you here?
Won't keep you here.
I hear that all the time andI've seen it, again, I wouldn't,
even IBM has a similar story.
IBM was the only manufacturer ofcomputers and at one point I
read an article where the CEO ofIBM, I don't know, in the
seventies or something.
(31:37):
No one's going to want acomputer at their house.
That's ridiculous.
Pivoting just a little bit backto our original conversation
when we first met I, I tell thestory on the episode we did.
That definitely check the shownotes without link if you want
to revisit that episode.
But, I was doing some, my ownlittle, I'm embarrassed to even
call it research, but it wasresearch for me I was looking
(31:58):
for some good quotes onefficiency and effectiveness
and, again, part of my role asa, an advisor to advisors, a
consultant to consultants, I tryto help, partners understand.
Why that matters and why it'simportant.
So I love a good quote.
Who doesn't like a good quote?
So anyway, you kept popping up.
I've said several times when itcame popping up, I got to talk
(32:19):
to this guy and you were sogracious with your time even
now, so I really appreciate it.
But we were talking about E andE efficiency and effectiveness.
Talk to us a little bit in ourlast 10 minutes or so here.
Why do you think organizationsoften have one, but not the
other?
And is this something they couldfix?
That's a great question, Chris.
Yeah, I feel like this is one ofthe sort of age old, like
(32:44):
dichotomies of business, right?
And I know you're really deepinto this, Chris.
Think there are a few things atplay here.
Effectiveness is broadly definedas the degree to which something
is successful in producing adesired results.
Would you agree with that?
I do.
That's a good one.
(33:05):
Okay, so efficiency is, I wouldsay, broadly defined as the
ratio of useful work performedby a person.
To their total energy expended,right?
What are you, are we gettingback for what we're putting in?
And would roughly agree?
(33:25):
Yeah, I do.
No that's a much betterdefinition than I use.
Go ahead.
I think I think organizationsin, in, in our, in, in this
modern era in our society arelargely incentivized to focus on
effectiveness.
I think we have, variousdifferent incentive structures
(33:50):
in place to promote, Toincentivize effectiveness from
companies.
Come up with, what we deem to bea desire, a desired result, and
those desired results tend tobe, or are largely based on what
(34:14):
investors view as their desiredresults.
And not necessarily what, theexecutives or the employees or
the customers may identify astheir desired results.
And I'm not saying that's goodor bad.
(34:34):
I'm just saying that there's alittle bit of conflict there.
But in any event, organizationsare especially, publicly traded
organizations are largelyfocused on these desired results
that are oftentimes superimposedon them by an external economic
(34:58):
participant.
And again, I'm not suggesting orsaying that's bad or good.
I'm simply identifying a, Iguess you could say a challenge.
And so there's two things there.
There, there's one the, I thinkthe idea that even if you just
(35:20):
focus exclusively oneffectiveness, how we are
broadly measuring effectivenessjust across society, how
companies are measuringeffectiveness is not always
holistic.
And to there is, I would arguea, over an outsized emphasis on
(35:45):
effectiveness that makes itdifficult for companies to focus
on efficiency.
And, that I think that's astrange kind of dichotomy.
A company is, incentivized toproduce the desired results of
(36:07):
increasing its stock price, forexample there are bound to be
some efficiencies that areneglected.
Or I wouldn't say there arebound to be.
There may be some efficienciesthat are neglected in pursuit of
that desired result.
And so I think we want to thinkabout how can we think more
(36:33):
systemically to incentivizecompanies to focus on both
effectiveness holistically inand of itself, and efficiency
and so to tie in your earliercomments or our earlier
comments, Chris, about, wastethe efficiency aspect ties right
(36:54):
into that, if companiesorganizations and all economic
participants are more efficientin what they're doing, you're
naturally going to eliminate thewaste factor.
And if I think we were tosystematically or systemically
(37:15):
tie our measurements of successand what we deem to be our
desired results to that, wemight bridge the gap between
efficiency and effectively andeffectiveness.
Yeah, that's fantastic.
Now that was a great explanationand deep dive into that.
(37:37):
And I challenge people all thetime.
Yeah, you can have one withoutthe other and that's not ideal.
So we were down to the last fewminutes.
Last words.
Is there anything you want toleave us with?
Anything you're working on?
You want to share with us?
Currently Chris finishing up myMy doctoral degree, so really
looking forward to that.
That's awesome.
And really learning a lot and myprofessors are really amazing.
(37:59):
So I'm really thankful for theexperience.
Got a I'm going to be sitting ona panel in in about four weeks
from now actually.
I've been awarded a businessleadership award by a conference
CXO 2.
0.
Congratulations.
Thank you.
Thank you.
You can you can look them up andthen I'll be, in addition to
(38:19):
receiving the award I'll besitting on a panel.
And discussing a few topics withother panelists.
So really looking forward tothat, Chris, and hopefully, you
can tune in then.
Yeah, I love it.
Hendrith, I hate that I hatethat time is not a God, what's
the word I'm looking for?
I just lost my word.
I wish we had more time.
(38:40):
Let's leave it at that.
I was going to try.
I'm trying to, I'm trying tomatch your man.
I listen to you.
It's just so calming and I'mhanging on every word.
And I'm and I love that becauseI feel like I'm the opposite,
man.
I'm like a live wire.
I'm just, and you know what?
And different is not bad, right?
Difference is different.
I love, I just love having theseconversations and I need to do
it more often with you, but man,I so appreciate it.
(39:01):
Great conversation.
Check the show notes.
I'll have any links that we canshare with you on this topic.
Definitely a link to the bookand as many other books, by the
way multiple books to choosefrom.
Hendrith, thanks so much,Marlowe.
We appreciate your time today.
Yeah.
Thank you, Chris.
Again, I'm a big fan of yourpodcast.
I watch your shows.
And you're, you're numerousguests that you have on and I
(39:23):
support everything that you'redoing and you're doing a great
job.
Thank you, honor.
Yeah.
Thank you so much.
And there you go, folks.
Another episode of the wirelessway.
If you heard anything that justhit home, anything you will
share with a colleague or abusiness partner or friend,
family member, please do that.
That, that's probably the mostrewarding thing about putting
these kinds of conversations.
(39:44):
On a podcast platform is we canshare them much like Netflix
does with movies.
I guess you can't share them.
You got to pay for it, but Hey,you're not even paying for this.
So it's definitely worth whatyou're paying.
I think really appreciate youguys.
Check out this episode, checkthe show notes and we'll see you
next time on the wireless way.
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