February 3, 2024 • 53 mins
Embark on an intriguing exploration of the financial world's shadowy corners with Stuart Englert, the formidable mind behind "Rigged," as our guide. Stuart chronicles his metamorphosis from a silver market enthusiast to a fearless journalist unearthing the depths of market manipulation. Together, we traverse pivotal historical milestones such as the Bretton Woods Agreement and the strategic removal of silver from U.S. coinage, unveiling the covert ties among bullion banks and central banks that have shaped the modern financial landscape.
Our conversation sails into the tumultuous seas of fiat currency and the emerging storm of Central Bank Digital Currencies (CBDCs). As the dollar's supremacy is tested by international contenders, we dissect the geopolitical currents that could redefine the essence of money itself. Stuart's insights illuminate the dark corners of CBDCs—the risks they pose to personal freedom and the potential for a surveillance state. We also entertain the tantalizing notion of whether gold and silver can reclaim their thrones in a world where paper currency's value ebbs away.
The episode culminates with a keen examination of gold and silver's roles in an ever-evolving monetary system. We scrutinize the historical tug-of-war over these precious metals, from the Hunt brothers' infamous silver play to the grassroots movements calling for their recognition as legal tender. We ponder the possibility of a monumental economic reset, where silver's technological and military applications may eclipse its monetary worth. Before parting, I reflect on the indispensable truths laid bare in "Rigged" and express my eagerness for listeners to join us on this revelatory journey through the world of finance, where the predatory nature of bulls and bears makes the wisdom of the wolf ever more valuable.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
All right.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcometo another episode of the Wise
Wolf Gold and Crypto Show.
I'm Tony Arterburn and I'mrecording from deep within the
heart of Texas here at theDenison office, and I have a
very special guest, a gentlemanI've wanted to have on this
program since I read his bookback in 2020.
And I just never was able toput the interview together.
(00:22):
That's my fault for not gettingin touch sooner, but I kept
saying I'm going to have this.
This is the Rosetta Stone forthose of us that are gold bugs,
that look at collusion and thesuppression of the gold price.
It's just an amazing case.
My guest is Stuart Anglert andhe's got a book called Rigged.
Now, this is Rigged, exposingthe largest financial fraud in
(00:46):
history.
And, stuart, welcome to theWise Wolf Gold and Crypto Show,
sir Well thank you very much,tony.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I appreciate the invitation and an opportunity to
speak to you and your audienceabout how the prices of metal
markets are rigged.
Manipulated prices aresuppressed.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
No doubt.
And this book I mean you pulledno punches.
It's a muscular book, right?
There's not a lot of, there'sno fat on this book.
It's not a tome, it's just.
It is a well-made case, youknow, showing the At least the
blueprint for how this is done.
And you know you had askedMelissa for some questions just
(01:31):
kind of go over what the topicsmight look like and what
direction we would take to show.
But I want to first start withyour history, what got you to
look at this, and then we can gointo a little bit of what I
what questions I have.
As far as timeline, sureabsolutely Shoot away.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
What would you like to know?
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Just your history.
When did you first come uponthis and what's been your
journey?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Sure, well, I guess I'm a silver bug from way back.
My mother was a coin collectoran amateur coin collector and I
guess when I was under 10 yearsold I bought her a Morgan Silver
dollar for a birthday orChristmas present or something,
(02:22):
and so she knew the value ofsilver.
She used to save all the 64quarters dimes, nickels, half
dollars, whatever.
Actually they weren't nickels,but anyway, you get the point
and I kind of learned it fromthat.
I was a journalist for 30 years.
I worked on three dailynewspapers and a couple national
(02:43):
magazines, and then I think itwas.
I've always been concerned aboutthe national debt and how this
could continue to accumulate,and then I started researching
money.
As you can see behind me, I'mquite a reader.
I started researching money anddebt and stumbled onto GATA.
(03:05):
Are you familiar with GATA, theGold Antitrust Action Committee
?
Probably about 15 years ago Istarted reading their website.
I was investing in the SilverETF at the time.
That was around 2006 when itlaunched, and then I found out
it looked like it was a scam tosuppress the price and so I
(03:30):
dumped that.
But as I read and I researched,I said you know, this story
needs to be told.
So I reached out to ChrisPowell, who's the
secretary-treasurer of GATA, andasked him if he liked to write
a book about it, because I waspublishing books at the time,
you know, and still do.
(03:50):
And he said you know, I'mreally too busy maintaining the
website, doing our dailydispatches.
So I said, all right, chris.
Well, you know, I just said thebook's got to be written.
So I spent about three, threeand a half months reading GATA's
archives and doing my ownresearch and just started
(04:12):
putting it together.
And I said you know what I'mgoing to write and publish this
book myself.
I didn't think I could get amainstream publisher to do it.
I didn't want them, you know,massaging my book in any way.
But I wrote something that Ithought I wanted to keep it
concise, to the point.
(04:32):
I didn't want to stray too faroff the major premise, which is
that the gold and silver marketsare manipulated and the prices
are suppressed, and I tried tohone in on that and write it in
a way that the average readercould understand it.
If I put in any you know jargon, I tried to explain it as best
(04:58):
I could, but I wanted it to be aprimer for people that maybe
are not in the gold and silverindustry or business or even
know a lot about the history.
So I guess that's about thebackground of the book.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Well, I remember, after reading your book I heard
you on Robert Kiyosaki's RichDad Radio program.
That was a great interview.
He's a golden silver bug fromway way back.
I want to talk a little bitabout the history of this.
You know, in 1944, we hadBretton Woods Agreement.
The dollars pegged to gold $35an ounce.
(05:35):
It becomes the world's reservecurrency.
You know, through my study I'mnot a professional journalist
like you or a writer, but I do.
You know, I'm a paratrooper wholikes books.
I'm a paratrooper who likesbooks in history.
So I dug into this and it wouldseem that the world started to
take notice that we had brokenthe Bretton Woods Agreement
(05:57):
before Nixon took us off thegold standard and closed the
gold window in 71.
As you mentioned, you're asilver bug.
You know we started taking thesilver out of the coinage
starting in 1965.
To me, you look at that lead upthere's a lot to unpack there.
Is that the timeline when thisstarts, because you can really
(06:20):
go back to?
You know where did the gold gowith FDR's confiscation in 1933.
Or you know the anti-goldhoarding executive order.
You know a lot of that goldwent to the Bank of
International Settlements and soon and so forth, and they, you
know, raised the price.
Does your journey?
Does it start here?
This?
You know the collusion betweenthe bullion houses, the central
(06:44):
banks, the price suppression.
Does it begin in the 70s?
Once we're untethered from gold, does that really ramp up?
Speaker 2 (06:52):
You know, I think it starts.
It starts an ancient history,if you will.
I mean, you're right, thecontemporary rigging happened in
the 60s and 70s.
But I mean, as you know,emperors and monarchs have been
manipulating currencies sincethere were currencies.
(07:15):
You know, when they wereputting tin and copper in silver
coins, they were debasing andmanipulating the currency so
they could fund their armies andexpand their empires.
But you mentioned a couple ofthem.
I mean, silver was demonetizedback in 1873, I guess you're
(07:37):
familiar with that.
And then, as you mentioned, youknow, gold was demonetized.
To me that's the ultimatemanipulation.
When you have constitutionalmoney, that is demonetized,
that's the ultimate manipulation.
But you're right, more recentlyit was, you know, around the
time that Nixon took the UnitedStates off the international
(08:00):
gold standard, even thoughPresident Roosevelt had outlawed
gold ownership, private goldownership, back in 1933 through
executive order, and I thinkthat was completely
unconstitutional.
But then you had what happenedin the 60s.
There were a couple of thingsthat happened in the 60s.
Number one the Western CentralBanks got together and formed
(08:24):
something called the London GoldPool and the whole purpose of
that pool was to maintaincontrol of the price of gold and
they would buy in.
You know, these Western CentralBanks would buy and sell gold
into the market to maintain thepegged price that they wanted
(08:46):
and, as you well know, that fellapart in 1968.
And this was at the same time,remember, in the 60s, when
silver was taken out of thecurrency.
So you know, these things werehappening simultaneously.
But then, after Nixon took theUnited States off the
international gold standard,they needed a new mechanism to
(09:12):
contain prices, metal prices, ok, and that became the futures
market.
All right, now, silver had beentraded on the futures markets,
you know, back into the 1800s,and it was how can I say this?
It was suspended.
(09:32):
That trading was suspendedduring World War II, like a lot
of commodities training, becausesome of these things were seen
as strategic metals, right, butsilver futures trading resumed
again in 1963, I think it was.
But gold, that didn't occuruntil 1974.
(09:54):
The futures trading marketopened on the COMEX in 1974,
december of 1974.
And that was the same monththat President Gerald Ford made
gold ownership legal again.
Ok, so those two thingsoccurred simultaneously, but it
(10:20):
was the futures market that theyknew that they could volume
trade these futures enough.
So they could, you know, rig,suppress, manipulate, whatever
you want to say, the gold price,and that's what we have still
today, tony.
They're still using the paperderivatives, these financial
(10:42):
derivatives that are created,these contracts, and they trade
in such large volume that theycan push the price pretty much
any way they want and, as I said, that's going on today.
In addition, 1974 was acritical year because that's the
year the CFTC also was created.
Ok, and the CFTC was designed orcharged with regulating the
(11:09):
futures markets.
Well, as you well know, theylet this precious metal
manipulation go on.
The CFTC is part of the problembecause they turned a blind eye
to the manipulation by thebullion banks on the futures
markets.
And a couple of years ago, youremember the silver squeeze
(11:33):
movement back in 2021?
Absolutely, I remember it well.
I remember it well.
So you remember then, or youmay know, that the CFTC chairman
, rostin Benham, admitted atthat time that the futures
markets were tamped down tocontrol or suppress the silver
price.
(11:54):
So there was an admission, andthat's happened so recently that
it's not even in my book,because I published the book in
2000 and the silver squeeze andBenham's admission occurred in
2021, the following year.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
So yeah, I remember that it was that they sold off
1.5 times the annual supply ofsilver in the paper markets in
one day.
That's right, and nobody couldfind any physical silver.
But the price went down.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Yes, and I've been seeing this going on all the way
back to 2008.
Okay, that's when I woke up tothis and that's when I dumped my
SLV, because I said they'reusing SLV to help manipulate
these prices on silver.
(12:42):
So I dumped it.
I said I'm not gonna use thisand I'm not gonna help them by
owning SLV to manipulate thesemarkets.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Well, that's what gets it done.
I mean nobody really.
I mean I'm sure the insidersknow, but those of us who study
on the outside trying to get tothe bottom of it don't really
know the true numbers.
I think some of the estimatesthrown around is that for every
250 ounces that are traded inpaper, one ounce exists in the
physical real world and we don'tknow.
(13:13):
I mean it could be worse, wedon't know.
You look at the amount ofmanipulation that has to go in
to make the gold-silver ratiowhat it is.
I mean to me that's a tellright there.
Just human history, allthroughout history, the
gold-silver ratio anywhere from10 to 20 to one, and now we're
like in that 87, 90 to one.
(13:33):
During the first quarter of2020, as you probably recall, is
like 121 to one or something,and I bought some silver at that
time, by the way.
Well it was good if you couldget it.
That's as a dealer.
It's funny to watch when theprices really go down and I get
a lot of calls and I say I can'tget it at that.
I mean people aren't selling,so there's this artificial price
(13:58):
and you go back to the 70s.
Stuart, I mean, I have got somany questions about what
happened and you know, nixontakes us off the gold standard
in August 1571.
If you track the price of goldthroughout the decade it's up
like 2000%.
But what most people becausethis is not taught in schools,
it's very counterintuitive.
(14:19):
The gold didn't go up right,gold just was.
The dollar was reevaluatingitself, with a loss of
purchasing power against gold asmoney.
And that's when people wouldask well, why would they
suppress it?
Well, because we're the world'sreserve currency is the dollar
and it needs to have a you know,quote, unquote strong dollar
(14:41):
and purchasing power and allthat.
And the dollar, as I say on myshow all the time, the dollar,
the Federal Reserve, the centralbank, is at war with gold.
There was an author, anthonySutton, in the 1970s wrote a
book called the War on Gold.
I mean he saw that way out kindof like.
You know, this is what youwrite about and this is the
(15:02):
beginning.
I know it's all throughouthistory the debasing of currency
, but the sophisticated modelthat they have really just comes
out of that because they haveto and it was stable for a long
time.
Does it look to you likethey're losing control of the
because of the BRICS nations?
I mean, how do you see thatplaying out?
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Well, you know, the challenge being posed by the
BRICS nation is something thatthe United States dollar has
never seen in its history,really, at least since the
dollar was the world's reservecurrency after World War II and
the Bretton Woods Agreement.
And we know that Russia andChina are accumulating thousands
(15:49):
of tons of gold.
Okay, so that's an indicationthat they've lost confidence in
the dollar.
Okay To me, anytime a countryor an individual takes their
fiat currencies and purchasesprecious metals, it's saying
(16:11):
that they don't trust the fiatcurrencies anymore.
They're looking for somethingtangible that has a track record
, like gold does.
And I wanted to follow up onsomething you said earlier.
Every time they demonetizedgold, back in 33 and 71, it was
(16:33):
so they could debase thecurrency, because they couldn't
maintain the price of gold atthat level.
So they had to get rid of it,sweep it out the door, so to
speak, so they could debase,devalue the fiat currencies.
So I wanted to add that a lotof people don't realize that's
(16:56):
why gold was demonetized in thefirst place so they could
proliferate, expand thiscurrency supply and the whole
debt and derivatives edifice, ifyou will.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Yeah, I read something the other day there's
52 times more currency on earththan there was in 1980.
Right, so the expansion, whenall and the oldest living fiat
currency now is the US dollar.
The oldest living fiat currency, average life spans about 26
years, so it's all aboutincreasing the money supply, as
(17:31):
you mentioned, and, of course,even under and they would have
had to in order to maintain thatgold peg.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
They would.
Gold would be hundreds ofthousands of dollars an ounce
right now, with the volume ofdebt and derivatives that have
been created.
I know.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
And this, you know, the just the throwing around the
figures, trillion it's.
So you know, in our modern timewe just kind of throw that
around.
When I was born, in 79, thedebt of the US was right under a
trillion.
So now we're 34 trillion andclimbing, and I mean it took us
all of our history to get there.
So you have this acceleratingdebt, this accelerating money
(18:09):
supply, the expansion of themoney supply, it's wide
inflation.
It seems to be going off therails.
I mean because the math it justdoesn't seem that it's the will
to suppress.
I don't know that they're gonnahave this in the face of all
these other countries.
I read an article yesterdayabout the BRICS Plus.
(18:29):
I mean they're adding SaudiArabia.
You know they've got the UnitedArab Emirates.
I mean just bringing in so manyother and of course, russia is
now heading up the presidency ofthe BRICS.
I'm pretty sure there's just somuch happening right now to
reset commodity prices, themoney velocity for the dollar.
I mean like less than 45% ofall global transactions go on in
(18:54):
dollars now, after the blowbackfrom the sanctions on Russia a
couple of years ago, it's reallyaccelerating, stuart, and it's
great that I have you on becausewe're witnessing history and
it's moving quickly.
Something I tell my audiencelike this isn't like theory,
like this isn't like something'sgonna affect you two years from
now.
Like this is like right now,something that's happening
(19:17):
because you're seeing in realtime, like how a currency starts
to die, like, at least, how wehave grown up with the currency,
how it's been a part of ourlives for many decades, like
that normalcy bias here isreally dangerous.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
There's a seismic shift going on and you know
there's tremors all over theplace.
I don't know when the faultline, where the fault line is
gonna break here, but you knowthe BRICS countries.
Like I said, it's the biggestchallenge ever posed to the
United States dollar and thecurrency and the monetary world
(19:55):
order, if you will, and I don'tsee it stopping, and I think
that's why the war drums arebeating too, tony that's.
You know who is going todetermine the new monetary
system?
Is it going to be the BRICS?
Who's going to set up the tableat the next Bretton Woods?
(20:17):
You know these are all theoutstanding questions.
You know, after World War II,the Western powers knew they
were gonna win right.
So they got together at BrettonWoods and said, okay, the
dollar's gonna be top dog.
Well, what's gonna be top dognext time around for the new
currency?
You know who's gonna operatethe CBDCs.
(20:41):
Are they gonna be backed bywhat?
Are they gonna be backed byAnything?
Are they gonna be fiat?
Are they?
Do China and Russia and theEastern realm, do they want gold
as an asset to somehow back uptheir CBDCs are?
You know, there are so manyunanswered questions at this
(21:03):
time that I have and I can onlyspeculate and I don't think it's
been determined yet.
I think it's being written as wespeak, and if we go to a global
war, that to me is how theoutcome I mean, we're ready in a
(21:25):
trade war with all thesesanctions.
Think about it.
It's not a hot war at thispoint.
I mean, there are rumblings ofa major hot war too.
We've got Ukraine and you'vegot what's going on over in the
Red Sea now in Israel.
But there's trade wars, there'scurrency wars.
You know James Rickards wroteabout all this.
He probably read him as well.
(21:46):
So there's war.
The question is, will it turnto a global hot war?
And who will reign supreme then?
And what kind of monetarysystem is the world looking at?
I mean, they're pushing aheadhard with these CBDCs.
They're trying to get them inplace because they know the
(22:07):
existing monetary system,financial system, is imploding.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Yes, so that's what I've been observing.
It's like a hurry up offense.
You know, one of the firstthings Biden did of course Jared
Kushner worked for Trump wasworking on the CBDC prior to his
exit, and now you get the Bidenadministration.
One of the first things theydid was sign an executive order
yes, yes For all the branchesout on the executive branch to
(22:34):
do an exploratory rollout ofwhat it would look like for
their branches and their officesusing central bank digital
currency.
So the IMF, the BIS, alldrawing up all these plans.
I think the IMF has the unicoin.
The CBDC is on the horizon and,of course, there's all sorts of
(22:54):
reasons for that.
It's to be able to controlexpansion and contraction of the
money supply in real time, butmore of to control you, it's to
control all movement To controleverything.
Everything, everything.
It's the end of history as youknow it, if that's able, if
there's no parallel systems andeverybody gets caught in that.
(23:17):
But yeah, never let a goodcrisis go to waste.
As I say the dollar's not goingto zero, it's going to digital.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Right, yes, yes, yes.
And one thing that the head ofthe international monetary fund
said last year that I thoughtabout and I can't remember her
name, but she said that.
She said that CBDCs would bebacked by assets okay, but she
didn't say what kind of assetsand she also suggested that
(23:47):
unbacked cryptocurrencies are aspeculative investment.
So what does that tell youabout cryptocurrencies and the
fact that they've just recentlylaunched these ETFs of Bitcoin?
Right To me, that's not goodfor Bitcoin, because they did
the same thing with gold andsilver.
(24:08):
They're going to be able to usethese financial derivatives to
dictate the price.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
I'm so glad you brought that up.
I'm so glad you brought this.
It's one of the again thepitfalls of this.
And Larry Fink from BlackRockcomes out and says Bitcoin is a
store of value, and I'm thinking, well, I don't want Larry
Fink's endorsement, I don't needit.
I've been into Bitcoin spacesince 2016 and I'm not a big
player, but I had Bitcoin ATM,so I understand it somewhat.
(24:36):
I'm not as enthusiastic aboutBitcoin as I am for physical
precious metals, but nonethelessI like the decentralized
network.
It's outside of the system andthere's no government there.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
But it's no longer with these ETFs, it's no longer
decentralized.
It's no longer peer to peer,the government is got control of
it.
Now with these, ETFs.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
That angle, yes, that angle.
There is something that Ishould have thought of.
I knew my thing.
I kept getting stuck on thefact that, even with the ETF,
there's manipulation.
Of course, there's only 21million Bitcoin that can ever be
.
So I started thinking how wouldthey?
How would that play out?
Speaker 2 (25:21):
But it seems to be making sense they can do the
same thing with the gold.
They lever it up.
That's what they do.
It's paper contracts.
That's what's gonna determinethe price.
That's what's-.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
That's the poison pill.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
That's.
You know what is it.
Bit, bittoe or whatever it isis the equivalent of GLD.
If you understand how preciousmetals are manipulated, okay,
you will understand what they'redoing now to Bitcoin to
manipulate and control it.
It's the same game and yet alot of the crypto people aren't
(25:58):
awake to this yet.
But some people are applaudingit, thinking this is going to
take it mainstream.
But it's no longerdecentralized.
It's no longer peer to peer.
The government's gonna regulatethese things.
They'll be able to lever themup with these derivative
contracts.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
I see.
That's why it's an ETF and it'snot about owning Bitcoin.
It's not about actual orphysical.
Yes, okay.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
That makes sense, and there's a limit on the number
of Bitcoin.
There's a limit on the amountof physical gold too, but what
have they done to it?
Are you following me?
Speaker 1 (26:32):
I follow you.
Yes, there's a lot of logic inthat.
Yeah, I don't trust thebanksters, right when they start
blessing something.
I go wait a minute, you know-.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Are the regulators, and that's the whole thing.
The bankers are in bed, if youwill, with the regulators.
There's a revolving door there.
I mean, Gary Gensler was formerchairman of the CFTC.
Now he's at the SEC and he'srubber stamped these Bitcoin
ETFs.
(27:05):
I mean, nothing changes, it'sjust you know it's the same game
over and over and over and over.
We see.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Yeah, this is something.
This would be your wheelhouse.
I mean you.
Automatically they startedannouncing ETFs.
You automatically think, well,that's how they're gonna get it,
that's how they suppress theprice.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
I sold my SLV, the ETF, back in 2006, because I saw
what they were doing to controlthe silver price.
I don't own any crypto becauseI've always been skeptical of
something like this happened,but when it happened I just said
, oh my God, here we go again.
Same thing.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Do you think that a Bitcoin ETF would be able to
suppress the price indefinitely,or do you think that it's just
a short-term measure, or is?
Speaker 2 (27:50):
it I mean, the government is involved.
As long as the banks and thegovernment are involved, it's
not decentralized.
Okay, it's not peer-to-peeranymore, and they will lever
this stuff up and they willdictate the price.
I mean, they could take it to a$100 million per Bitcoin, but
(28:15):
what would be the purpose ofthat?
I've always thought thesecryptos were created to take
investment money away from goldand silver.
Hmm.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
That would be.
I've known in this, been in thespace enough to know that.
You know there's been amovement for a long time with
cryptography and the cypherpunksand all that to to create
something that you know alibertarian based, anarcho
capitalist, based away from thesystem.
So there's that element.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
And I I support that.
You see, I support that.
But anytime the government andthe banks get involved, it's
lost.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Oh, you, and I agree on that.
I mean, I wasn't when thishappened.
I was trying to figure out.
I was like where's the pot?
Is there any positive in this?
Because you know, I'm notcheerleading in an ETF.
I don't.
I don't think that you need theblessing of a system that's
actually dying, like the dyingfiat debt driven system, where,
you know, when you were a kid,the stock market was based on
(29:11):
profit and now it's not evenbased on profit anymore.
It's ESG, it's environmental,social governance.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
How much how close to your algorithms.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Yes, I mean, they're not even the companies are.
They're.
They're in the red every yearand somehow still functioning
and zombies in a way.
So this we live in a I mean asystem that you people I always
warn them on my program likeyou're watching something
implode and I would.
You know, I look at things likeBitcoin and I look at the you
know, the precious metalsmovements in the states, the
(29:41):
individual states.
I love to see that gold andsilver is legal tender,
decentralizing.
So while you're seeing, on oneside, stuart, you see all this
centralization coming down fromthe BIS, the IMF, the West, the
Federal Reserve, the Fed coin,all that stuff pushing for CBDCs
and centralization, and on theother hand, you see these
(30:02):
grassroots movements in states,in the United States, of people
you know looking to have theirown reserve banks, gold and
silver legal tender.
So we're in a fight Like thisis a.
This is a fight for a lot.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
But I love to see what's happening at the state
and local level.
You know, because it's gettingback to the Constitution.
Okay, what?
What does the Constitution say?
That the states can only makegold and silver legal tender for
payment of debts.
I mean, how far away have wegotten from the premise of the
(30:36):
Constitution there?
And it's because even thestates got addicted to this
federal largesse, this funnymoney that they create out of
thin air and to base.
But some lawmakers at the statelevel are waking up and they're
seeing the right on the wall.
That's why Texas has a gold andsilver depository right.
(30:57):
That's why.
That's why a lot of states more, what is it?
43 states now have taken thesales tax off of gold and silver
.
Some states have actually saidit's legal tender again in their
states.
You know, it's amazing.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
There is, there is positive on, but you know this
is happening so fast and I don'tthink we're going to be
prepared totally for how quickthese things were in the modern
era.
I mean, you got to see thecollapse of the Soviet Union.
I mean breaks into 16 piecesbasically overnight and on
Christmas Day in 1990.
(31:33):
That was, I mean, unexpected,swift and, you know, massive
historical shift happened veryquickly.
I think that we're in that samekind of era where, hopefully,
because I'm a veteran of threeforeign wars, I want out of
every war, I don't want any partof any foreign war unless it's
defending our shores.
And what we have here is ourhome, which is almost never
(31:55):
Because we don't even, we don'teven force our own border.
So I don't, I'm not for foreignwars.
But you see that, you knowJames Rickards writes about his
currency wars, trade wars, andthen you have actual war.
It's usually the sequence ofevents.
So we're in a very volatiletime.
It's been what, coming up on,it's 80 years since Bretton
(32:16):
Woods, since the Bretton WoodsAgreement, and that's the end of
the last, you know, great cycleof history, is called the
fourth warning.
So we're set, we're poised tohurt for massive change and it
seems like this game thatthey've been running since you
know I've been in the modern era, from my understanding would be
sometime in the 1970s, justreally hammering the price of
(32:39):
gold.
I want to ask you kind of youmentioned that you were a silver
bug and I'm sure you know a lotmore about this than I do, but
I've often wondered.
In the same time, in the 1970s,you have this price increase of
silver as well.
You know silver was.
You know that famous MerleHaggard song?
I wish a buck was still silver,right, but people started to
(33:00):
take notice.
You in the 70s, who didn't haveany more silver in our coinage.
I look at the price there.
You see the, the hunt family,the hunt brothers.
They start buying and corneringthe silver market.
I said cornering is buying upthe physical supply, which
apparently isn't that hard to do, which is really.
I mean, when you talk about theinshore lock homes, the dog
(33:21):
that didn't bark like hey, whyisn't it a whale buying all the
physical silver right now?
That's probably a tell, becauseyou could easily do it and do
what they did.
But they were, in my opinion,and like the Gore Vidal says,
I'm not a conspiracy theorist,I'm a conspiracy analyst.
But you get to the end of the70s, 1980, silver is $52.50 an
(33:43):
ounce in 1980 because of thehunts driving it up.
Then all of a sudden it tanksbecause they bankrupted the
hunts.
I say they is it.
This is you talk about rigged?
That was a top down.
Shut those guys up.
Cftc again.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
It was the CFTC.
The hunt brothers were beatingthe bankers at their own damn
game and they didn't like it,and so they called in the
regulators hey, you got to dosomething here.
We're going to lose our shirts,we're going to lose our game.
So you got to shut it down.
And I agree with you.
I think whales are reluctantnow to get in and fight that
(34:20):
fight and be targeted and findand banned from trading.
But I think so much better thatthe silver squeeze at the
grassroots level.
Why not a million minnowsrather than a big whale buying
up all the silver?
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Well, I like that better.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
I like that better.
I mean not just for businessbut I think, just
constitutionally, for liberty'ssake and people's being able to
reset their own wealth.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
If the powers to be want to take us to a CBDC and
control everything, you know,our lives, why can't we go, as
the grassroots, go, back tosilver and just exchange silver?
Speaker 1 (35:00):
I like that idea, I love it.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
It's always been the average man's money.
That's why they demonetized itback in 1873 and called it was
called the crime of 1873.
Are you familiar with that area?
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Yes, because at that time, if you, if you were a
silver miner, okay, you hadsilver.
All you had to do was take itto the US Mint and min as many
coins.
They'd min as many coins as youwanted.
Think about that.
That's how it should be, and itwas, and it was legal tender
until they demonetized, becausethe banks wanted to control this
(35:35):
gold supply.
They couldn't control thesilver supply.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
It's interesting you had the Morgan Silver Dollar
comes out 1878, correct, that'sthe first run of the Morgan.
And then the next year theUnited States officially goes on
the gold standard that you knowset by the Great Britain, so
1879.
And that's that leads intoWilliam McKinley's Cross of Gold
speech and Free Silver and all,even the allegory of the Wizard
(36:01):
of Oz.
It's a really interestinghistory, I mean so much of our
politics.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
Driven by that, I'm writing a new book on debt, you
know, at Tendency Lee, titleshackles and chains, and I've
been researching the history ofdebt and money and I tell you
what it is intriguing.
It is very intriguing.
And you just see all all these,all these conspiracies to
(36:26):
control the currency, you know,monetize, demonetize, you know
debase it's.
It's been going on forever,forever, and it's always pitting
the, you know, the monarchs,the elites, the emperors against
the common man, always, alwaystrying to consolidate power,
(36:50):
control money.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
You know it's like that famous quote from Mayor
Ross trial.
You know who said that.
I care not who sits on theBritish stone.
Thrown the person who.
I control the British moneysupply.
It's really just tracked backto the who controls the money
(37:12):
supply.
It's the golden rule that Idon't agree with.
But he who has the gold makesthe rules.
It's funny that in a time whenyou know of CBDC and unlimited
currency creation andquantitative easing and all
these fancy terms, central banksaround the world except ours
(37:33):
are buying gold at a record clip.
Right, I mean just breaking allthe records I even read.
You know, there's a lot ofanalysis showing the Chinese
might actually have more goldthan us at this time.
They started buying heavily atthe beginning of the century.
They bought off the books.
I mean, why would you buy offthe books unless you wanted to
gain an advantage by being alittle stealthy?
But the United States can't buygold.
(37:56):
I mean, what do you think,stuart?
Is there any chance that thissystem would want to re-monetize
?
I don't see that.
You know another gold standard.
It would be the smart thing todo.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Whoever re-monetizes the monetary metals first, I
think, is going to be ahead ofthe game because they can call
the shots.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Oh, that's interesting.
Yeah, so whoever finally makesthat leap?
Speaker 2 (38:28):
Whoever makes the move first to me is setting the
pace, setting the tone.
They're out of the shoots first.
They win the game, you know.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
I don't see any path for the United States doing that
without a major conflict ofsome kind.
It would have to be externaland internal pressures
simultaneously.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
We've created a bureaucracy.
We're so dependent on this easymoney, easy credit.
We forgot how to produce, weforgot what sound money is.
You know, most people, anyway,so many people, are benefiting
off the status quo, the existingsystem.
But that's destroying us.
(39:10):
It's destroying, it's hollowingus out, our economy, our souls.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
All debt-driven, all fake, yes, and it props up a
fake system.
It starts with the fake money.
It goes to fake politicians,fake news, banking institutions
Everything's fake.
And then it falls apart Because, even when I mentioned earlier,
you have zombie corporations.
It's like 80 or something likethat's still propped up from the
(39:40):
2008 downturn and recession.
So, no, it's not healthy andyou're right.
Whoever does make the firstmove, it would seem that that
would crown them monetary king.
I don't know if there's goingto be.
Maybe it's a series ofcurrencies that bring down the
dollar, a series of regionalcurrencies or commodities or
(40:02):
systems, but we're watching.
It's happening fast.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
We can only imagine where this thing's going to go.
You know, and I don't thinkit's going to turn out like any
of us can predict at this point.
And I think you know, even ifCBDCs are launched and precious
metals are banned, so to speak,I think you'll turn into it'll
(40:29):
be a black market, you know.
I think not everybody's goingto want to buy into the CBDCs
once they figure out what it'sall about.
I mean desperate people dodesperate things and I think
that's why they're trying tomake the average person
desperate.
I mean, 60% of the populationslive in paycheck to paycheck, so
(40:53):
you know they're desperate andthey may, they may beg for CBDCs
.
You know, maybe that's theintent.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
That's the.
I think that's their preference.
You have to ask for it and theywant you to add.
This is all.
This is the solution.
If you just ask for it, we'llgive it to you.
Do you see a world with CBDC?
Do you ever see a world wherethere is gold and silver or not?
I mean, it could be madeillegal.
It could be a 1933 style thing.
(41:21):
I can't make any guarantees, Idon't know.
I mean, I think that's adifferent.
There was a different reasonwhy they did that back then.
But who knows?
Because they may say well, wecan't have anything competing
with the central bank digitalcurrency, because we're all in
this together kind of thing,everybody's got to use the same
currency.
I don't know what argumentsthey could make, but do you see,
are you worried about that?
(41:42):
Do you have any on your radar?
Speaker 2 (41:44):
I don't foresee a confiscation?
I just don't.
I think most precious metalowners wouldn't voluntarily turn
over their precious metals andback when the last confiscation
was in 1933, people were muchmore trusting of the government
than they are today.
People are very skeptical ofthe government nowadays
(42:08):
Notifying any institutionbecause they saw what happened
with COVID.
That turned a large segment ofthe population into skeptics,
and I think that's a good thing.
I don't think we should trustour government, but I can't see
federal agents goingdoor-to-door, pillaging jewelry
(42:29):
boxes and prying open home safesto get gold, at least as long
as the American population isarmed, because I think it would
trigger a civil war.
And I think that's the reasonthe anti-gun people want to take
guns, because they know thatthe people can stand up for
(42:49):
their rights.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
I agree 100% on that.
It's the last.
It's kind of a mutually assureddestruction, defending your
homestead and your propertyagainst unlawful seizure of that
over reach of the tyrannicalgovernment.
That's what it's for.
That's why we have a secondamendment.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
I keep asking myself, tony, how did they demonetize
gold and silver when the USConstitution continues to say no
state shall make anything butgold and silver coin a legal
tender and payment of debts?
How far have we swayed, goneaway from the Constitution right
(43:30):
there?
Speaker 1 (43:31):
Yeah, show me in the Constitution where you can have
a Federal Reserve Bank.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
Show it to me, and then you can't.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
These huge bureaucracies, including the
money bureaucracy of the FederalReserve, and it's because the
politicians bought into it sothey could grow, expand.
In many ways it was good.
It helped the United States tofiat currency, but it's run its
course now and we ended up withwhere we're headed, which is
(44:00):
default bankruptcy.
I don't know what you want tocall it.
That's why they have to segueto something else.
See me these days.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
Well, we got just a little bit of time left.
I don't want to put you on thespot too much, but you study
this, you've been looking at itfor years.
I mean it seems to be.
It is rigged, as your bookspells out, and I agree with
that.
Just history and research itpoints to that.
It's pretty obvious at thispoint.
Does that come apart?
(44:31):
And are we looking at a pricereset here?
You know there's the W-E-F, theWorld Economic Forum.
The great reset, you know, issomething here from these, these
banks for types, but I thinkthere's a reset in the price of
all things.
You know.
I think that's a, you know, arevaluation of all currencies.
(44:53):
Just crystal ball, if you hadone, what do you think that
looks like?
And I'm not really a price guy,but I want to know, like in
that world where you see arevaluation, where do you think
gold and silver might be?
Speaker 2 (45:07):
Well, I'm not a prognosticator and I hate making
predictions because I'm usuallywrong.
But I think you know, and Isuggested in my book, there has
to be a reset.
You know there's no other wayand what we have to do is get to
true price discovery.
And how do you do that?
In that event, silver shouldprobably be worth more than gold
(45:31):
because it has many moreindustrial uses.
It's more of our everyday lives.
We wouldn't be having thisconversation right now without
silver in our electronic devices.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
Right.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
I mean, and then they're talking to you know they
want to go to green, green.
Well, silver is critical for agreen infrastructure right
Beyond solar panels.
Plus and this has come to lightof late, and you, you know,
haven't been in the militaryknow this silver has many
(46:06):
military applications.
Were you aware of this?
Absolutely yeah, it's like 40pounds of silver in a Tomahawk
missile?
Yes, in these laser guidedmissiles in Apache helicopters,
and that may be another reasonwhy they're trying to hold down
the price, right?
Well, that's interesting, yeah,you have JP Morgan Was it a
(46:30):
strategic medal, even thoughthey've apparently the
government apparently sold offthe strategic silver stockpiles.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
When you really dig into what where silver comes
from now it's like a byproductof them mining other things like
copper and gold, yeah, and youreally dig down further, you
find out that most of the silverended up in landfills because
it wasn't profitable to take itout of the old equipment and
things that were thrown it out,all the old photography.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
How much went into this?
You know photography, you knowprocessing and was washed down
the sink, so to speak.
You know.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
That's that you mentioned that.
I mean gold, obviously inmonetary metal, has some other
uses in medicine and electronics, but it's silver that really is
the industrial monetary metal.
Yes, that surpasses goldenusage, medicine included.
So that is interesting that youthink that it might, it has a
(47:28):
possibility, it should be, or atleast it should be, an
application.
Yeah, application.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
And also, I mean, I understand it comes out of the
ground.
Gold or silver is one to eightor 10 or something, now you know
.
But what is the price at One to80, one to 90?
Speaker 1 (47:48):
It's like one to 90 or something like that.
It's stupid.
And then I talk about that allthe time.
I'm like when did that change?
I mean even like I think, yeah,they used to estimate that it's
like the high end, likegeologically, it was 17 to one.
Right, that's the high end.
You know, being very generous.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
But now we Silver discoveries have been found,
apparently, or mined out, andit's harder to extract it.
You know, from these other oarsI was actually in a silver mine
up in Idaho, went down 3000feet below the ground and saw
these guys working in there with.
You know, whatever theirjackhammers is, you know you
(48:27):
talking about hard, dirty,dangerous, sweaty work and
they're doing this for $22, $23an ounce.
What I don't know how theminers stay in business at these
prices.
I do not know.
Speaker 1 (48:46):
A lot of them don't.
It's hard to find a goodcompany to.
Even I buy a little bit ofmining stocks not my primary
thing, but you look around, it'snot a lot out there and some of
the bigger ones I'mconsolidating more.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
But you are correct in that assessment in the sense
that this is just gonna becomemore and more rare silver
because of the way it's beingjust it's been debased and used
up and thrown out and then notmined, we got a real problem
with that, and not only you know, if you're talking about solar
panels, there's all kinds ofother minerals and metals that
(49:20):
go into those.
It's not just silver.
So you know, mining metals,overall, all commodities, I
think should be much higherpriced than they are.
And what are we pricing?
You know the fangs.
You know, right.
I always make fun of that.
Yeah, I mean, it's just showsyou how assets are misdirected
(49:45):
in this illusion of an economywe have.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
Well, I like that term.
It definitely is an illusion.
Well, Stuart, we got just acouple of minutes left.
I so appreciate you being here.
I wanna have you back.
When do you think your new bookwill be out?
Speaker 2 (50:01):
Oh, it may be.
While I've been working.
Actually, I've got two books.
I'm working on a financialmemoir and one on, you know, the
history of debt, but it couldbe a couple of years.
I've been working on the memoirnow for six or seven years and
the debt book I've been workingon two years and I'm probably
only half finished.
(50:22):
So it's a slog because you haveto do so much research, you
know so much reading and I canonly do it piecemeal.
You know, and I have to.
When I do it, I have to immersemyself in it, as you well know
if you're doing anything right.
But you know it's gonna happenand I'm looking forward to it.
(50:47):
I've already got a cover for mymemoir, but a few things have
to happen before I can publishit, and some of what has to
happen is what we're talking.
We've been talking about herein this conversation.
You always need a conclusion,right?
Speaker 1 (51:04):
Yeah, it's hard to find one now because things
change so quickly.
It's like I wrote the book andyou know, and then, oh wait
about this, I gotta put this init.
That's kind of.
I'm working on a book too.
So it's like-.
Speaker 2 (51:14):
Even with Rigged, it's an unfolding story.
You know, I just wrote it in2020, but yet we've had so much
occur that part of it's outdated.
None of the historicalinformation or documentation is
outdated.
That's still very relevant, butI'm just saying you know even
(51:35):
what is his name Rostin Benham'scomment.
You know the tamp down commentthat should be in my book, right
?
Because to me that's indicativeor an illustration of how the
prices are suppressed.
Speaker 1 (51:50):
That's truly fascinating.
Stuart, Do you have any placewhere you want people to find
you if they wanna contact you orget a copy of Rigged?
Speaker 2 (51:59):
I'm just about out of personal copies.
I used to sign them.
I think I got five or six leftand I used to tell people.
If they want one they cancontact me at sranglercomcastnet
if they wanna sign copy.
But it's probably easier to goon to Barnes, noble or Amazon,
and I've got the book there inboth ebook and paperback and you
(52:23):
can read this thing in an houror two, you know, because it's
you know, as you know, it's verythin, but it's packed with
information and documentationthat makes the point that needed
to be made.
Speaker 1 (52:39):
Well, again, just love having you here.
I've wanted to have you on fora while.
I'm sorry it took me so long tofinally reach out and shout out
to Melissa for making it happen.
I wanna have you back though,especially for whether it's two
years from now on your books.
I definitely wanna do that, butit may be in the interim
between that, if anything majorcomes out.
You know, as far as this Riggedsystem and the reevaluation and
(53:02):
the reset of prices, Idefinitely wanna talk to you
again, but-.
Speaker 2 (53:06):
Sounds good.
Let's see what developmentshappen in the next year.
You know there's a lot ofpeople, including myself,
thinking this ought to be agangbuster year for a lot of
changes, and I'm watching itwith reluctant anticipation.
Speaker 1 (53:23):
Well, the book is Rigged.
Ladies and gentlemen, go andget a copy.
It is, I think, one of the mostimportant stories, if not the
most important story of our time, because it tracks back to our
fake fiat currency system.
I'm gonna put this up very soonand I'm really looking forward
(53:44):
to the feedback we're gonna get.
Thanks again, stuart.
Speaker 2 (53:47):
Thanks so much for the invitation, Tony, and send
me a link when you get posted,okay.
Speaker 1 (53:52):
Absolutely well, and I tell my audience, in a world
of bulls and bears, be the wolf.
See you next time.
All right.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcometo another episode of the Wise
Wolf Gold and Crypto Show.
I'm Tony Arterburn and I'mrecording from deep within the
heart of Texas here at theDenison office, and I have a
very special guest, a gentlemanI've wanted to have on this
program since I read his bookback in 2020.
And I just never was able toput the interview together.
(00:22):
That's my fault for not gettingin touch sooner, but I kept
saying I'm going to have this.
This is the Rosetta Stone forthose of us that are gold bugs,
that look at collusion and thesuppression of the gold price.
It's just an amazing case.
My guest is Stuart Anglert andhe's got a book called Rigged.
Now, this is Rigged, exposingthe largest financial fraud in
(00:46):
history.
And, stuart, welcome to theWise Wolf Gold and Crypto Show,
sir Well thank you very much,tony.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I appreciate the invitation and an opportunity to
speak to you and your audienceabout how the prices of metal
markets are rigged.
Manipulated prices aresuppressed.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
No doubt.
And this book I mean you pulledno punches.
It's a muscular book, right?
There's not a lot of, there'sno fat on this book.
It's not a tome, it's just.
It is a well-made case, youknow, showing the At least the
blueprint for how this is done.
And you know you had askedMelissa for some questions just
(01:31):
kind of go over what the topicsmight look like and what
direction we would take to show.
But I want to first start withyour history, what got you to
look at this, and then we can gointo a little bit of what I
what questions I have.
As far as timeline, sureabsolutely Shoot away.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
What would you like to know?
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Just your history.
When did you first come uponthis and what's been your
journey?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Sure, well, I guess I'm a silver bug from way back.
My mother was a coin collectoran amateur coin collector and I
guess when I was under 10 yearsold I bought her a Morgan Silver
dollar for a birthday orChristmas present or something,
(02:22):
and so she knew the value ofsilver.
She used to save all the 64quarters dimes, nickels, half
dollars, whatever.
Actually they weren't nickels,but anyway, you get the point
and I kind of learned it fromthat.
I was a journalist for 30 years.
I worked on three dailynewspapers and a couple national
(02:43):
magazines, and then I think itwas.
I've always been concerned aboutthe national debt and how this
could continue to accumulate,and then I started researching
money.
As you can see behind me, I'mquite a reader.
I started researching money anddebt and stumbled onto GATA.
(03:05):
Are you familiar with GATA, theGold Antitrust Action Committee
?
Probably about 15 years ago Istarted reading their website.
I was investing in the SilverETF at the time.
That was around 2006 when itlaunched, and then I found out
it looked like it was a scam tosuppress the price and so I
(03:30):
dumped that.
But as I read and I researched,I said you know, this story
needs to be told.
So I reached out to ChrisPowell, who's the
secretary-treasurer of GATA, andasked him if he liked to write
a book about it, because I waspublishing books at the time,
you know, and still do.
(03:50):
And he said you know, I'mreally too busy maintaining the
website, doing our dailydispatches.
So I said, all right, chris.
Well, you know, I just said thebook's got to be written.
So I spent about three, threeand a half months reading GATA's
archives and doing my ownresearch and just started
(04:12):
putting it together.
And I said you know what I'mgoing to write and publish this
book myself.
I didn't think I could get amainstream publisher to do it.
I didn't want them, you know,massaging my book in any way.
But I wrote something that Ithought I wanted to keep it
concise, to the point.
(04:32):
I didn't want to stray too faroff the major premise, which is
that the gold and silver marketsare manipulated and the prices
are suppressed, and I tried tohone in on that and write it in
a way that the average readercould understand it.
If I put in any you know jargon, I tried to explain it as best
(04:58):
I could, but I wanted it to be aprimer for people that maybe
are not in the gold and silverindustry or business or even
know a lot about the history.
So I guess that's about thebackground of the book.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Well, I remember, after reading your book I heard
you on Robert Kiyosaki's RichDad Radio program.
That was a great interview.
He's a golden silver bug fromway way back.
I want to talk a little bitabout the history of this.
You know, in 1944, we hadBretton Woods Agreement.
The dollars pegged to gold $35an ounce.
(05:35):
It becomes the world's reservecurrency.
You know, through my study I'mnot a professional journalist
like you or a writer, but I do.
You know, I'm a paratrooper wholikes books.
I'm a paratrooper who likesbooks in history.
So I dug into this and it wouldseem that the world started to
take notice that we had brokenthe Bretton Woods Agreement
(05:57):
before Nixon took us off thegold standard and closed the
gold window in 71.
As you mentioned, you're asilver bug.
You know we started taking thesilver out of the coinage
starting in 1965.
To me, you look at that lead upthere's a lot to unpack there.
Is that the timeline when thisstarts, because you can really
(06:20):
go back to?
You know where did the gold gowith FDR's confiscation in 1933.
Or you know the anti-goldhoarding executive order.
You know a lot of that goldwent to the Bank of
International Settlements and soon and so forth, and they, you
know, raised the price.
Does your journey?
Does it start here?
This?
You know the collusion betweenthe bullion houses, the central
(06:44):
banks, the price suppression.
Does it begin in the 70s?
Once we're untethered from gold, does that really ramp up?
Speaker 2 (06:52):
You know, I think it starts.
It starts an ancient history,if you will.
I mean, you're right, thecontemporary rigging happened in
the 60s and 70s.
But I mean, as you know,emperors and monarchs have been
manipulating currencies sincethere were currencies.
(07:15):
You know, when they wereputting tin and copper in silver
coins, they were debasing andmanipulating the currency so
they could fund their armies andexpand their empires.
But you mentioned a couple ofthem.
I mean, silver was demonetizedback in 1873, I guess you're
(07:37):
familiar with that.
And then, as you mentioned, youknow, gold was demonetized.
To me that's the ultimatemanipulation.
When you have constitutionalmoney, that is demonetized,
that's the ultimate manipulation.
But you're right, more recentlyit was, you know, around the
time that Nixon took the UnitedStates off the international
(08:00):
gold standard, even thoughPresident Roosevelt had outlawed
gold ownership, private goldownership, back in 1933 through
executive order, and I thinkthat was completely
unconstitutional.
But then you had what happenedin the 60s.
There were a couple of thingsthat happened in the 60s.
Number one the Western CentralBanks got together and formed
(08:24):
something called the London GoldPool and the whole purpose of
that pool was to maintaincontrol of the price of gold and
they would buy in.
You know, these Western CentralBanks would buy and sell gold
into the market to maintain thepegged price that they wanted
(08:46):
and, as you well know, that fellapart in 1968.
And this was at the same time,remember, in the 60s, when
silver was taken out of thecurrency.
So you know, these things werehappening simultaneously.
But then, after Nixon took theUnited States off the
international gold standard,they needed a new mechanism to
(09:12):
contain prices, metal prices, ok, and that became the futures
market.
All right, now, silver had beentraded on the futures markets,
you know, back into the 1800s,and it was how can I say this?
It was suspended.
(09:32):
That trading was suspendedduring World War II, like a lot
of commodities training, becausesome of these things were seen
as strategic metals, right, butsilver futures trading resumed
again in 1963, I think it was.
But gold, that didn't occuruntil 1974.
(09:54):
The futures trading marketopened on the COMEX in 1974,
december of 1974.
And that was the same monththat President Gerald Ford made
gold ownership legal again.
Ok, so those two thingsoccurred simultaneously, but it
(10:20):
was the futures market that theyknew that they could volume
trade these futures enough.
So they could, you know, rig,suppress, manipulate, whatever
you want to say, the gold price,and that's what we have still
today, tony.
They're still using the paperderivatives, these financial
(10:42):
derivatives that are created,these contracts, and they trade
in such large volume that theycan push the price pretty much
any way they want and, as I said, that's going on today.
In addition, 1974 was acritical year because that's the
year the CFTC also was created.
Ok, and the CFTC was designed orcharged with regulating the
(11:09):
futures markets.
Well, as you well know, theylet this precious metal
manipulation go on.
The CFTC is part of the problembecause they turned a blind eye
to the manipulation by thebullion banks on the futures
markets.
And a couple of years ago, youremember the silver squeeze
(11:33):
movement back in 2021?
Absolutely, I remember it well.
I remember it well.
So you remember then, or youmay know, that the CFTC chairman
, rostin Benham, admitted atthat time that the futures
markets were tamped down tocontrol or suppress the silver
price.
(11:54):
So there was an admission, andthat's happened so recently that
it's not even in my book,because I published the book in
2000 and the silver squeeze andBenham's admission occurred in
2021, the following year.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
So yeah, I remember that it was that they sold off
1.5 times the annual supply ofsilver in the paper markets in
one day.
That's right, and nobody couldfind any physical silver.
But the price went down.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Yes, and I've been seeing this going on all the way
back to 2008.
Okay, that's when I woke up tothis and that's when I dumped my
SLV, because I said they'reusing SLV to help manipulate
these prices on silver.
(12:42):
So I dumped it.
I said I'm not gonna use thisand I'm not gonna help them by
owning SLV to manipulate thesemarkets.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Well, that's what gets it done.
I mean nobody really.
I mean I'm sure the insidersknow, but those of us who study
on the outside trying to get tothe bottom of it don't really
know the true numbers.
I think some of the estimatesthrown around is that for every
250 ounces that are traded inpaper, one ounce exists in the
physical real world and we don'tknow.
(13:13):
I mean it could be worse, wedon't know.
You look at the amount ofmanipulation that has to go in
to make the gold-silver ratiowhat it is.
I mean to me that's a tellright there.
Just human history, allthroughout history, the
gold-silver ratio anywhere from10 to 20 to one, and now we're
like in that 87, 90 to one.
(13:33):
During the first quarter of2020, as you probably recall, is
like 121 to one or something,and I bought some silver at that
time, by the way.
Well it was good if you couldget it.
That's as a dealer.
It's funny to watch when theprices really go down and I get
a lot of calls and I say I can'tget it at that.
I mean people aren't selling,so there's this artificial price
(13:58):
and you go back to the 70s.
Stuart, I mean, I have got somany questions about what
happened and you know, nixontakes us off the gold standard
in August 1571.
If you track the price of goldthroughout the decade it's up
like 2000%.
But what most people becausethis is not taught in schools,
it's very counterintuitive.
(14:19):
The gold didn't go up right,gold just was.
The dollar was reevaluatingitself, with a loss of
purchasing power against gold asmoney.
And that's when people wouldask well, why would they
suppress it?
Well, because we're the world'sreserve currency is the dollar
and it needs to have a you know,quote, unquote strong dollar
(14:41):
and purchasing power and allthat.
And the dollar, as I say on myshow all the time, the dollar,
the Federal Reserve, the centralbank, is at war with gold.
There was an author, anthonySutton, in the 1970s wrote a
book called the War on Gold.
I mean he saw that way out kindof like.
You know, this is what youwrite about and this is the
(15:02):
beginning.
I know it's all throughouthistory the debasing of currency
, but the sophisticated modelthat they have really just comes
out of that because they haveto and it was stable for a long
time.
Does it look to you likethey're losing control of the
because of the BRICS nations?
I mean, how do you see thatplaying out?
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Well, you know, the challenge being posed by the
BRICS nation is something thatthe United States dollar has
never seen in its history,really, at least since the
dollar was the world's reservecurrency after World War II and
the Bretton Woods Agreement.
And we know that Russia andChina are accumulating thousands
(15:49):
of tons of gold.
Okay, so that's an indicationthat they've lost confidence in
the dollar.
Okay To me, anytime a countryor an individual takes their
fiat currencies and purchasesprecious metals, it's saying
(16:11):
that they don't trust the fiatcurrencies anymore.
They're looking for somethingtangible that has a track record
, like gold does.
And I wanted to follow up onsomething you said earlier.
Every time they demonetizedgold, back in 33 and 71, it was
(16:33):
so they could debase thecurrency, because they couldn't
maintain the price of gold atthat level.
So they had to get rid of it,sweep it out the door, so to
speak, so they could debase,devalue the fiat currencies.
So I wanted to add that a lotof people don't realize that's
(16:56):
why gold was demonetized in thefirst place so they could
proliferate, expand thiscurrency supply and the whole
debt and derivatives edifice, ifyou will.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Yeah, I read something the other day there's
52 times more currency on earththan there was in 1980.
Right, so the expansion, whenall and the oldest living fiat
currency now is the US dollar.
The oldest living fiat currency, average life spans about 26
years, so it's all aboutincreasing the money supply, as
(17:31):
you mentioned, and, of course,even under and they would have
had to in order to maintain thatgold peg.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
They would.
Gold would be hundreds ofthousands of dollars an ounce
right now, with the volume ofdebt and derivatives that have
been created.
I know.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
And this, you know, the just the throwing around the
figures, trillion it's.
So you know, in our modern timewe just kind of throw that
around.
When I was born, in 79, thedebt of the US was right under a
trillion.
So now we're 34 trillion andclimbing, and I mean it took us
all of our history to get there.
So you have this acceleratingdebt, this accelerating money
(18:09):
supply, the expansion of themoney supply, it's wide
inflation.
It seems to be going off therails.
I mean because the math it justdoesn't seem that it's the will
to suppress.
I don't know that they're gonnahave this in the face of all
these other countries.
I read an article yesterdayabout the BRICS Plus.
(18:29):
I mean they're adding SaudiArabia.
You know they've got the UnitedArab Emirates.
I mean just bringing in so manyother and of course, russia is
now heading up the presidency ofthe BRICS.
I'm pretty sure there's just somuch happening right now to
reset commodity prices, themoney velocity for the dollar.
I mean like less than 45% ofall global transactions go on in
(18:54):
dollars now, after the blowbackfrom the sanctions on Russia a
couple of years ago, it's reallyaccelerating, stuart, and it's
great that I have you on becausewe're witnessing history and
it's moving quickly.
Something I tell my audiencelike this isn't like theory,
like this isn't like something'sgonna affect you two years from
now.
Like this is like right now,something that's happening
(19:17):
because you're seeing in realtime, like how a currency starts
to die, like, at least, how wehave grown up with the currency,
how it's been a part of ourlives for many decades, like
that normalcy bias here isreally dangerous.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
There's a seismic shift going on and you know
there's tremors all over theplace.
I don't know when the faultline, where the fault line is
gonna break here, but you knowthe BRICS countries.
Like I said, it's the biggestchallenge ever posed to the
United States dollar and thecurrency and the monetary world
(19:55):
order, if you will, and I don'tsee it stopping, and I think
that's why the war drums arebeating too, tony that's.
You know who is going todetermine the new monetary
system?
Is it going to be the BRICS?
Who's going to set up the tableat the next Bretton Woods?
(20:17):
You know these are all theoutstanding questions.
You know, after World War II,the Western powers knew they
were gonna win right.
So they got together at BrettonWoods and said, okay, the
dollar's gonna be top dog.
Well, what's gonna be top dognext time around for the new
currency?
You know who's gonna operatethe CBDCs.
(20:41):
Are they gonna be backed bywhat?
Are they gonna be backed byAnything?
Are they gonna be fiat?
Are they?
Do China and Russia and theEastern realm, do they want gold
as an asset to somehow back uptheir CBDCs are?
You know, there are so manyunanswered questions at this
(21:03):
time that I have and I can onlyspeculate and I don't think it's
been determined yet.
I think it's being written as wespeak, and if we go to a global
war, that to me is how theoutcome I mean, we're ready in a
(21:25):
trade war with all thesesanctions.
Think about it.
It's not a hot war at thispoint.
I mean, there are rumblings ofa major hot war too.
We've got Ukraine and you'vegot what's going on over in the
Red Sea now in Israel.
But there's trade wars, there'scurrency wars.
You know James Rickards wroteabout all this.
He probably read him as well.
(21:46):
So there's war.
The question is, will it turnto a global hot war?
And who will reign supreme then?
And what kind of monetarysystem is the world looking at?
I mean, they're pushing aheadhard with these CBDCs.
They're trying to get them inplace because they know the
(22:07):
existing monetary system,financial system, is imploding.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Yes, so that's what I've been observing.
It's like a hurry up offense.
You know, one of the firstthings Biden did of course Jared
Kushner worked for Trump wasworking on the CBDC prior to his
exit, and now you get the Bidenadministration.
One of the first things theydid was sign an executive order
yes, yes For all the branchesout on the executive branch to
(22:34):
do an exploratory rollout ofwhat it would look like for
their branches and their officesusing central bank digital
currency.
So the IMF, the BIS, alldrawing up all these plans.
I think the IMF has the unicoin.
The CBDC is on the horizon and,of course, there's all sorts of
(22:54):
reasons for that.
It's to be able to controlexpansion and contraction of the
money supply in real time, butmore of to control you, it's to
control all movement To controleverything.
Everything, everything.
It's the end of history as youknow it, if that's able, if
there's no parallel systems andeverybody gets caught in that.
(23:17):
But yeah, never let a goodcrisis go to waste.
As I say the dollar's not goingto zero, it's going to digital.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Right, yes, yes, yes.
And one thing that the head ofthe international monetary fund
said last year that I thoughtabout and I can't remember her
name, but she said that.
She said that CBDCs would bebacked by assets okay, but she
didn't say what kind of assetsand she also suggested that
(23:47):
unbacked cryptocurrencies are aspeculative investment.
So what does that tell youabout cryptocurrencies and the
fact that they've just recentlylaunched these ETFs of Bitcoin?
Right To me, that's not goodfor Bitcoin, because they did
the same thing with gold andsilver.
(24:08):
They're going to be able to usethese financial derivatives to
dictate the price.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
I'm so glad you brought that up.
I'm so glad you brought this.
It's one of the again thepitfalls of this.
And Larry Fink from BlackRockcomes out and says Bitcoin is a
store of value, and I'm thinking, well, I don't want Larry
Fink's endorsement, I don't needit.
I've been into Bitcoin spacesince 2016 and I'm not a big
player, but I had Bitcoin ATM,so I understand it somewhat.
(24:36):
I'm not as enthusiastic aboutBitcoin as I am for physical
precious metals, but nonethelessI like the decentralized
network.
It's outside of the system andthere's no government there.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
But it's no longer with these ETFs, it's no longer
decentralized.
It's no longer peer to peer,the government is got control of
it.
Now with these, ETFs.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
That angle, yes, that angle.
There is something that Ishould have thought of.
I knew my thing.
I kept getting stuck on thefact that, even with the ETF,
there's manipulation.
Of course, there's only 21million Bitcoin that can ever be
.
So I started thinking how wouldthey?
How would that play out?
Speaker 2 (25:21):
But it seems to be making sense they can do the
same thing with the gold.
They lever it up.
That's what they do.
It's paper contracts.
That's what's gonna determinethe price.
That's what's-.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
That's the poison pill.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
That's.
You know what is it.
Bit, bittoe or whatever it isis the equivalent of GLD.
If you understand how preciousmetals are manipulated, okay,
you will understand what they'redoing now to Bitcoin to
manipulate and control it.
It's the same game and yet alot of the crypto people aren't
(25:58):
awake to this yet.
But some people are applaudingit, thinking this is going to
take it mainstream.
But it's no longerdecentralized.
It's no longer peer to peer.
The government's gonna regulatethese things.
They'll be able to lever themup with these derivative
contracts.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
I see.
That's why it's an ETF and it'snot about owning Bitcoin.
It's not about actual orphysical.
Yes, okay.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
That makes sense, and there's a limit on the number
of Bitcoin.
There's a limit on the amountof physical gold too, but what
have they done to it?
Are you following me?
Speaker 1 (26:32):
I follow you.
Yes, there's a lot of logic inthat.
Yeah, I don't trust thebanksters, right when they start
blessing something.
I go wait a minute, you know-.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Are the regulators, and that's the whole thing.
The bankers are in bed, if youwill, with the regulators.
There's a revolving door there.
I mean, Gary Gensler was formerchairman of the CFTC.
Now he's at the SEC and he'srubber stamped these Bitcoin
ETFs.
(27:05):
I mean, nothing changes, it'sjust you know it's the same game
over and over and over and over.
We see.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Yeah, this is something.
This would be your wheelhouse.
I mean you.
Automatically they startedannouncing ETFs.
You automatically think, well,that's how they're gonna get it,
that's how they suppress theprice.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
I sold my SLV, the ETF, back in 2006, because I saw
what they were doing to controlthe silver price.
I don't own any crypto becauseI've always been skeptical of
something like this happened,but when it happened I just said
, oh my God, here we go again.
Same thing.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Do you think that a Bitcoin ETF would be able to
suppress the price indefinitely,or do you think that it's just
a short-term measure, or is?
Speaker 2 (27:50):
it I mean, the government is involved.
As long as the banks and thegovernment are involved, it's
not decentralized.
Okay, it's not peer-to-peeranymore, and they will lever
this stuff up and they willdictate the price.
I mean, they could take it to a$100 million per Bitcoin, but
(28:15):
what would be the purpose ofthat?
I've always thought thesecryptos were created to take
investment money away from goldand silver.
Hmm.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
That would be.
I've known in this, been in thespace enough to know that.
You know there's been amovement for a long time with
cryptography and the cypherpunksand all that to to create
something that you know alibertarian based, anarcho
capitalist, based away from thesystem.
So there's that element.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
And I I support that.
You see, I support that.
But anytime the government andthe banks get involved, it's
lost.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Oh, you, and I agree on that.
I mean, I wasn't when thishappened.
I was trying to figure out.
I was like where's the pot?
Is there any positive in this?
Because you know, I'm notcheerleading in an ETF.
I don't.
I don't think that you need theblessing of a system that's
actually dying, like the dyingfiat debt driven system, where,
you know, when you were a kid,the stock market was based on
(29:11):
profit and now it's not evenbased on profit anymore.
It's ESG, it's environmental,social governance.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
How much how close to your algorithms.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Yes, I mean, they're not even the companies are.
They're.
They're in the red every yearand somehow still functioning
and zombies in a way.
So this we live in a I mean asystem that you people I always
warn them on my program likeyou're watching something
implode and I would.
You know, I look at things likeBitcoin and I look at the you
know, the precious metalsmovements in the states, the
(29:41):
individual states.
I love to see that gold andsilver is legal tender,
decentralizing.
So while you're seeing, on oneside, stuart, you see all this
centralization coming down fromthe BIS, the IMF, the West, the
Federal Reserve, the Fed coin,all that stuff pushing for CBDCs
and centralization, and on theother hand, you see these
(30:02):
grassroots movements in states,in the United States, of people
you know looking to have theirown reserve banks, gold and
silver legal tender.
So we're in a fight Like thisis a.
This is a fight for a lot.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
But I love to see what's happening at the state
and local level.
You know, because it's gettingback to the Constitution.
Okay, what?
What does the Constitution say?
That the states can only makegold and silver legal tender for
payment of debts.
I mean, how far away have wegotten from the premise of the
(30:36):
Constitution there?
And it's because even thestates got addicted to this
federal largesse, this funnymoney that they create out of
thin air and to base.
But some lawmakers at the statelevel are waking up and they're
seeing the right on the wall.
That's why Texas has a gold andsilver depository right.
(30:57):
That's why.
That's why a lot of states more, what is it?
43 states now have taken thesales tax off of gold and silver
.
Some states have actually saidit's legal tender again in their
states.
You know, it's amazing.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
There is, there is positive on, but you know this
is happening so fast and I don'tthink we're going to be
prepared totally for how quickthese things were in the modern
era.
I mean, you got to see thecollapse of the Soviet Union.
I mean breaks into 16 piecesbasically overnight and on
Christmas Day in 1990.
(31:33):
That was, I mean, unexpected,swift and, you know, massive
historical shift happened veryquickly.
I think that we're in that samekind of era where, hopefully,
because I'm a veteran of threeforeign wars, I want out of
every war, I don't want any partof any foreign war unless it's
defending our shores.
And what we have here is ourhome, which is almost never
(31:55):
Because we don't even, we don'teven force our own border.
So I don't, I'm not for foreignwars.
But you see that, you knowJames Rickards writes about his
currency wars, trade wars, andthen you have actual war.
It's usually the sequence ofevents.
So we're in a very volatiletime.
It's been what, coming up on,it's 80 years since Bretton
(32:16):
Woods, since the Bretton WoodsAgreement, and that's the end of
the last, you know, great cycleof history, is called the
fourth warning.
So we're set, we're poised tohurt for massive change and it
seems like this game thatthey've been running since you
know I've been in the modern era, from my understanding would be
sometime in the 1970s, justreally hammering the price of
(32:39):
gold.
I want to ask you kind of youmentioned that you were a silver
bug and I'm sure you know a lotmore about this than I do, but
I've often wondered.
In the same time, in the 1970s,you have this price increase of
silver as well.
You know silver was.
You know that famous MerleHaggard song?
I wish a buck was still silver,right, but people started to
(33:00):
take notice.
You in the 70s, who didn't haveany more silver in our coinage.
I look at the price there.
You see the, the hunt family,the hunt brothers.
They start buying and corneringthe silver market.
I said cornering is buying upthe physical supply, which
apparently isn't that hard to do, which is really.
I mean, when you talk about theinshore lock homes, the dog
(33:21):
that didn't bark like hey, whyisn't it a whale buying all the
physical silver right now?
That's probably a tell, becauseyou could easily do it and do
what they did.
But they were, in my opinion,and like the Gore Vidal says,
I'm not a conspiracy theorist,I'm a conspiracy analyst.
But you get to the end of the70s, 1980, silver is $52.50 an
(33:43):
ounce in 1980 because of thehunts driving it up.
Then all of a sudden it tanksbecause they bankrupted the
hunts.
I say they is it.
This is you talk about rigged?
That was a top down.
Shut those guys up.
Cftc again.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
It was the CFTC.
The hunt brothers were beatingthe bankers at their own damn
game and they didn't like it,and so they called in the
regulators hey, you got to dosomething here.
We're going to lose our shirts,we're going to lose our game.
So you got to shut it down.
And I agree with you.
I think whales are reluctantnow to get in and fight that
(34:20):
fight and be targeted and findand banned from trading.
But I think so much better thatthe silver squeeze at the
grassroots level.
Why not a million minnowsrather than a big whale buying
up all the silver?
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Well, I like that better.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
I like that better.
I mean not just for businessbut I think, just
constitutionally, for liberty'ssake and people's being able to
reset their own wealth.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
If the powers to be want to take us to a CBDC and
control everything, you know,our lives, why can't we go, as
the grassroots, go, back tosilver and just exchange silver?
Speaker 1 (35:00):
I like that idea, I love it.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
It's always been the average man's money.
That's why they demonetized itback in 1873 and called it was
called the crime of 1873.
Are you familiar with that area?
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Yes, because at that time, if you, if you were a
silver miner, okay, you hadsilver.
All you had to do was take itto the US Mint and min as many
coins.
They'd min as many coins as youwanted.
Think about that.
That's how it should be, and itwas, and it was legal tender
until they demonetized, becausethe banks wanted to control this
(35:35):
gold supply.
They couldn't control thesilver supply.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
It's interesting you had the Morgan Silver Dollar
comes out 1878, correct, that'sthe first run of the Morgan.
And then the next year theUnited States officially goes on
the gold standard that you knowset by the Great Britain, so
1879.
And that's that leads intoWilliam McKinley's Cross of Gold
speech and Free Silver and all,even the allegory of the Wizard
(36:01):
of Oz.
It's a really interestinghistory, I mean so much of our
politics.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
Driven by that, I'm writing a new book on debt, you
know, at Tendency Lee, titleshackles and chains, and I've
been researching the history ofdebt and money and I tell you
what it is intriguing.
It is very intriguing.
And you just see all all these,all these conspiracies to
(36:26):
control the currency, you know,monetize, demonetize, you know
debase it's.
It's been going on forever,forever, and it's always pitting
the, you know, the monarchs,the elites, the emperors against
the common man, always, alwaystrying to consolidate power,
(36:50):
control money.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
You know it's like that famous quote from Mayor
Ross trial.
You know who said that.
I care not who sits on theBritish stone.
Thrown the person who.
I control the British moneysupply.
It's really just tracked backto the who controls the money
(37:12):
supply.
It's the golden rule that Idon't agree with.
But he who has the gold makesthe rules.
It's funny that in a time whenyou know of CBDC and unlimited
currency creation andquantitative easing and all
these fancy terms, central banksaround the world except ours
(37:33):
are buying gold at a record clip.
Right, I mean just breaking allthe records I even read.
You know, there's a lot ofanalysis showing the Chinese
might actually have more goldthan us at this time.
They started buying heavily atthe beginning of the century.
They bought off the books.
I mean, why would you buy offthe books unless you wanted to
gain an advantage by being alittle stealthy?
But the United States can't buygold.
(37:56):
I mean, what do you think,stuart?
Is there any chance that thissystem would want to re-monetize
?
I don't see that.
You know another gold standard.
It would be the smart thing todo.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Whoever re-monetizes the monetary metals first, I
think, is going to be ahead ofthe game because they can call
the shots.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Oh, that's interesting.
Yeah, so whoever finally makesthat leap?
Speaker 2 (38:28):
Whoever makes the move first to me is setting the
pace, setting the tone.
They're out of the shoots first.
They win the game, you know.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
I don't see any path for the United States doing that
without a major conflict ofsome kind.
It would have to be externaland internal pressures
simultaneously.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
We've created a bureaucracy.
We're so dependent on this easymoney, easy credit.
We forgot how to produce, weforgot what sound money is.
You know, most people, anyway,so many people, are benefiting
off the status quo, the existingsystem.
But that's destroying us.
(39:10):
It's destroying, it's hollowingus out, our economy, our souls.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
All debt-driven, all fake, yes, and it props up a
fake system.
It starts with the fake money.
It goes to fake politicians,fake news, banking institutions
Everything's fake.
And then it falls apart Because, even when I mentioned earlier,
you have zombie corporations.
It's like 80 or something likethat's still propped up from the
(39:40):
2008 downturn and recession.
So, no, it's not healthy andyou're right.
Whoever does make the firstmove, it would seem that that
would crown them monetary king.
I don't know if there's goingto be.
Maybe it's a series ofcurrencies that bring down the
dollar, a series of regionalcurrencies or commodities or
(40:02):
systems, but we're watching.
It's happening fast.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
We can only imagine where this thing's going to go.
You know, and I don't thinkit's going to turn out like any
of us can predict at this point.
And I think you know, even ifCBDCs are launched and precious
metals are banned, so to speak,I think you'll turn into it'll
(40:29):
be a black market, you know.
I think not everybody's goingto want to buy into the CBDCs
once they figure out what it'sall about.
I mean desperate people dodesperate things and I think
that's why they're trying tomake the average person
desperate.
I mean, 60% of the populationslive in paycheck to paycheck, so
(40:53):
you know they're desperate andthey may, they may beg for CBDCs
.
You know, maybe that's theintent.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
That's the.
I think that's their preference.
You have to ask for it and theywant you to add.
This is all.
This is the solution.
If you just ask for it, we'llgive it to you.
Do you see a world with CBDC?
Do you ever see a world wherethere is gold and silver or not?
I mean, it could be madeillegal.
It could be a 1933 style thing.
(41:21):
I can't make any guarantees, Idon't know.
I mean, I think that's adifferent.
There was a different reasonwhy they did that back then.
But who knows?
Because they may say well, wecan't have anything competing
with the central bank digitalcurrency, because we're all in
this together kind of thing,everybody's got to use the same
currency.
I don't know what argumentsthey could make, but do you see,
are you worried about that?
(41:42):
Do you have any on your radar?
Speaker 2 (41:44):
I don't foresee a confiscation?
I just don't.
I think most precious metalowners wouldn't voluntarily turn
over their precious metals andback when the last confiscation
was in 1933, people were muchmore trusting of the government
than they are today.
People are very skeptical ofthe government nowadays
(42:08):
Notifying any institutionbecause they saw what happened
with COVID.
That turned a large segment ofthe population into skeptics,
and I think that's a good thing.
I don't think we should trustour government, but I can't see
federal agents goingdoor-to-door, pillaging jewelry
(42:29):
boxes and prying open home safesto get gold, at least as long
as the American population isarmed, because I think it would
trigger a civil war.
And I think that's the reasonthe anti-gun people want to take
guns, because they know thatthe people can stand up for
(42:49):
their rights.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
I agree 100% on that.
It's the last.
It's kind of a mutually assureddestruction, defending your
homestead and your propertyagainst unlawful seizure of that
over reach of the tyrannicalgovernment.
That's what it's for.
That's why we have a secondamendment.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
I keep asking myself, tony, how did they demonetize
gold and silver when the USConstitution continues to say no
state shall make anything butgold and silver coin a legal
tender and payment of debts?
How far have we swayed, goneaway from the Constitution right
(43:30):
there?
Speaker 1 (43:31):
Yeah, show me in the Constitution where you can have
a Federal Reserve Bank.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
Show it to me, and then you can't.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
These huge bureaucracies, including the
money bureaucracy of the FederalReserve, and it's because the
politicians bought into it sothey could grow, expand.
In many ways it was good.
It helped the United States tofiat currency, but it's run its
course now and we ended up withwhere we're headed, which is
(44:00):
default bankruptcy.
I don't know what you want tocall it.
That's why they have to segueto something else.
See me these days.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
Well, we got just a little bit of time left.
I don't want to put you on thespot too much, but you study
this, you've been looking at itfor years.
I mean it seems to be.
It is rigged, as your bookspells out, and I agree with
that.
Just history and research itpoints to that.
It's pretty obvious at thispoint.
Does that come apart?
(44:31):
And are we looking at a pricereset here?
You know there's the W-E-F, theWorld Economic Forum.
The great reset, you know, issomething here from these, these
banks for types, but I thinkthere's a reset in the price of
all things.
You know.
I think that's a, you know, arevaluation of all currencies.
(44:53):
Just crystal ball, if you hadone, what do you think that
looks like?
And I'm not really a price guy,but I want to know, like in
that world where you see arevaluation, where do you think
gold and silver might be?
Speaker 2 (45:07):
Well, I'm not a prognosticator and I hate making
predictions because I'm usuallywrong.
But I think you know, and Isuggested in my book, there has
to be a reset.
You know there's no other wayand what we have to do is get to
true price discovery.
And how do you do that?
In that event, silver shouldprobably be worth more than gold
(45:31):
because it has many moreindustrial uses.
It's more of our everyday lives.
We wouldn't be having thisconversation right now without
silver in our electronic devices.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
Right.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
I mean, and then they're talking to you know they
want to go to green, green.
Well, silver is critical for agreen infrastructure right
Beyond solar panels.
Plus and this has come to lightof late, and you, you know,
haven't been in the militaryknow this silver has many
(46:06):
military applications.
Were you aware of this?
Absolutely yeah, it's like 40pounds of silver in a Tomahawk
missile?
Yes, in these laser guidedmissiles in Apache helicopters,
and that may be another reasonwhy they're trying to hold down
the price, right?
Well, that's interesting, yeah,you have JP Morgan Was it a
(46:30):
strategic medal, even thoughthey've apparently the
government apparently sold offthe strategic silver stockpiles.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
When you really dig into what where silver comes
from now it's like a byproductof them mining other things like
copper and gold, yeah, and youreally dig down further, you
find out that most of the silverended up in landfills because
it wasn't profitable to take itout of the old equipment and
things that were thrown it out,all the old photography.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
How much went into this?
You know photography, you knowprocessing and was washed down
the sink, so to speak.
You know.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
That's that you mentioned that.
I mean gold, obviously inmonetary metal, has some other
uses in medicine and electronics, but it's silver that really is
the industrial monetary metal.
Yes, that surpasses goldenusage, medicine included.
So that is interesting that youthink that it might, it has a
(47:28):
possibility, it should be, or atleast it should be, an
application.
Yeah, application.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
And also, I mean, I understand it comes out of the
ground.
Gold or silver is one to eightor 10 or something, now you know
.
But what is the price at One to80, one to 90?
Speaker 1 (47:48):
It's like one to 90 or something like that.
It's stupid.
And then I talk about that allthe time.
I'm like when did that change?
I mean even like I think, yeah,they used to estimate that it's
like the high end, likegeologically, it was 17 to one.
Right, that's the high end.
You know, being very generous.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
But now we Silver discoveries have been found,
apparently, or mined out, andit's harder to extract it.
You know, from these other oarsI was actually in a silver mine
up in Idaho, went down 3000feet below the ground and saw
these guys working in there with.
You know, whatever theirjackhammers is, you know you
(48:27):
talking about hard, dirty,dangerous, sweaty work and
they're doing this for $22, $23an ounce.
What I don't know how theminers stay in business at these
prices.
I do not know.
Speaker 1 (48:46):
A lot of them don't.
It's hard to find a goodcompany to.
Even I buy a little bit ofmining stocks not my primary
thing, but you look around, it'snot a lot out there and some of
the bigger ones I'mconsolidating more.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
But you are correct in that assessment in the sense
that this is just gonna becomemore and more rare silver
because of the way it's beingjust it's been debased and used
up and thrown out and then notmined, we got a real problem
with that, and not only you know, if you're talking about solar
panels, there's all kinds ofother minerals and metals that
(49:20):
go into those.
It's not just silver.
So you know, mining metals,overall, all commodities, I
think should be much higherpriced than they are.
And what are we pricing?
You know the fangs.
You know, right.
I always make fun of that.
Yeah, I mean, it's just showsyou how assets are misdirected
(49:45):
in this illusion of an economywe have.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
Well, I like that term.
It definitely is an illusion.
Well, Stuart, we got just acouple of minutes left.
I so appreciate you being here.
I wanna have you back.
When do you think your new bookwill be out?
Speaker 2 (50:01):
Oh, it may be.
While I've been working.
Actually, I've got two books.
I'm working on a financialmemoir and one on, you know, the
history of debt, but it couldbe a couple of years.
I've been working on the memoirnow for six or seven years and
the debt book I've been workingon two years and I'm probably
only half finished.
(50:22):
So it's a slog because you haveto do so much research, you
know so much reading and I canonly do it piecemeal.
You know, and I have to.
When I do it, I have to immersemyself in it, as you well know
if you're doing anything right.
But you know it's gonna happenand I'm looking forward to it.
(50:47):
I've already got a cover for mymemoir, but a few things have
to happen before I can publishit, and some of what has to
happen is what we're talking.
We've been talking about herein this conversation.
You always need a conclusion,right?
Speaker 1 (51:04):
Yeah, it's hard to find one now because things
change so quickly.
It's like I wrote the book andyou know, and then, oh wait
about this, I gotta put this init.
That's kind of.
I'm working on a book too.
So it's like-.
Speaker 2 (51:14):
Even with Rigged, it's an unfolding story.
You know, I just wrote it in2020, but yet we've had so much
occur that part of it's outdated.
None of the historicalinformation or documentation is
outdated.
That's still very relevant, butI'm just saying you know even
(51:35):
what is his name Rostin Benham'scomment.
You know the tamp down commentthat should be in my book, right
?
Because to me that's indicativeor an illustration of how the
prices are suppressed.
Speaker 1 (51:50):
That's truly fascinating.
Stuart, Do you have any placewhere you want people to find
you if they wanna contact you orget a copy of Rigged?
Speaker 2 (51:59):
I'm just about out of personal copies.
I used to sign them.
I think I got five or six leftand I used to tell people.
If they want one they cancontact me at sranglercomcastnet
if they wanna sign copy.
But it's probably easier to goon to Barnes, noble or Amazon,
and I've got the book there inboth ebook and paperback and you
(52:23):
can read this thing in an houror two, you know, because it's
you know, as you know, it's verythin, but it's packed with
information and documentationthat makes the point that needed
to be made.
Speaker 1 (52:39):
Well, again, just love having you here.
I've wanted to have you on fora while.
I'm sorry it took me so long tofinally reach out and shout out
to Melissa for making it happen.
I wanna have you back though,especially for whether it's two
years from now on your books.
I definitely wanna do that, butit may be in the interim
between that, if anything majorcomes out.
You know, as far as this Riggedsystem and the reevaluation and
(53:02):
the reset of prices, Idefinitely wanna talk to you
again, but-.
Speaker 2 (53:06):
Sounds good.
Let's see what developmentshappen in the next year.
You know there's a lot ofpeople, including myself,
thinking this ought to be agangbuster year for a lot of
changes, and I'm watching itwith reluctant anticipation.
Speaker 1 (53:23):
Well, the book is Rigged.
Ladies and gentlemen, go andget a copy.
It is, I think, one of the mostimportant stories, if not the
most important story of our time, because it tracks back to our
fake fiat currency system.
I'm gonna put this up very soonand I'm really looking forward
(53:44):
to the feedback we're gonna get.
Thanks again, stuart.
Speaker 2 (53:47):
Thanks so much for the invitation, Tony, and send
me a link when you get posted,okay.
Speaker 1 (53:52):
Absolutely well, and I tell my audience, in a world
of bulls and bears, be the wolf.
See you next time.
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